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Brenton
This.

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Brenton
Is further.

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Brenton
A weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms.

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Brenton
Our lives.

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Brenton
Welcome back to further Brenton Grimm. And today joining us remotely actually is Chris Carr. How are you doing today?

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Chris
I'm great. I'm on vacation. The weather is beautiful. So it's it's a great day. Good.

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Brenton
Yeah. And I mean, typically, you know, when this happens, we knew that Chris was going to be gone. But this you know, we've gotten some feedback on this sermon and I, I think it's just important that we are able to go through some of these things. So I appreciate, Chris, you taking the time to do it. I want to start by just kind of clearing up and maybe better defining the word conscience.

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Brenton
So you you had brought it up a few times and, you know, I think we all can kind of conjure up misrepresentations of what our conscience is. You know, whether it's the angel devil on our shoulder or Jiminy Cricket, I think Pinocchio's probably ruined a lot of us. I think it's safe to assume that some of us have an inaccurate idea of what it is.

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Brenton
And so with that said, how would you describe the conscience?

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Chris
Yeah, I will mention that you mentioned, you know, they talk about the devil or the angel on the shoulders. That takes me back to my childhood with the Flintstones, German and sounds, when Fred would have the, you know, the the, the the bad Fred on one side and the good Fred on the other side, I believe. And anyway yeah, but nevertheless right back.

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Brenton
To my childhood.

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Chris
Yeah. So yeah the Greek word for conscience means moral awareness. And Paul actually doesn't use the word conscience in Romans 14, but in kind of the parallel passage and first Corinthians eight through ten, he uses the conscience that were repeatedly and, and talks about someone who has a weak conscience. And I think that therefore when he in is 14 or 15 when to uses strong and weak, he's talking about a person with with the strong or weak conscience.

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Chris
And again, the word means moral awareness. And it it's it's something within as it's part of our psyche that reacts when our actions, thoughts, some words conform to or is contrary to a standard of right or wrong. And the standard or wrong that we in some ways have internally developed for ourselves.

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Brenton
Okay. So I think that most of our, you know, understanding of the spirit is that he has the role of convicting us of our sin. So what what's the Spirit's role and what's the conscience role? And how do we kind of conflate those sometimes?

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Chris
Yeah, I that's a good question. I think it's somewhat hard to put put my finger on exactly where the line is between the conscience and and the Holy Spirit. I think that we might say that a strong conscience is one that is highly informed and directed by the Spirit. And and a weak conscience would be one that is less, if it all may be informed, directed by it, by the Holy Spirit.

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Chris
I think that there these two are meant to work in in tandem with one another to direct us as to what is right and wrong and what we should do. So, you know, my I think that the spirit speaks to our conscience. And, you know, if you talk about conviction of sin, think that one of the ways that the spirit can mix is by speaking to our conscience and saying, that's wrong.

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Chris
You've done something wrong there. now our conscience can be weak in the sense that there will be times where we do not actually we feel like we're sitting and we're not. So it's actually not that the spirit and speaking to our conscience and that I think is in play in Romans 14. But I think that, the Holy Spirit and the conscience are meant to work really in hand and hand and we'll maybe we'll get into this a little bit more.

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Chris
But the way that we strengthen our conscience is by more and more developing our own value system that is based upon the Word of God. So if you talk about Paul, you know, Paul talks about both in Acts 23 and in first Corinthians four about how his own conscience was good or clear. And basically what that means is that he examined his words and his actions and he found them to be in accord with his value system and his value system was based upon God's standards.

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Chris
So we might think that maybe we put it this way, that the Holy Spirit works through the word to inform our value system and then our conscience, where it is when it is strong and it is formed on on our value system, which is based upon God's word, then of then it's, it's operating in the way that it's supposed to make any sense.

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Brenton
Yeah, I think it does with it. Just to sum that up, would it be fair to say that, you know, our our conscience is kind of directly you know, our our level of of conscience is directly correlated with our sanctification?

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Chris
Yes, absolutely.

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Brenton
Okay. So yeah.

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Chris
And the Holy, Holy Spirit is the one who produces our sanctification. Sure. So.

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Brenton
Okay.

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Chris
And yes, I mentioned Sunday about searing your conscience. If you quit listening to your conscience, eventually you will have no conscience at all. And so nothing you will not. You'll never be convicted of sin.

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Brenton
Yeah, right.

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Chris
And and so I maybe to summarize it, I think that the Holy Spirit works through our conscience to be like to sanctify us or at least part of his sanctity. The work of his edification is sanctified in our conscience so that we're we have a better sense of what's right or right or wrong.

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Brenton
So when we when we think about informing our conscience and that was something that you had brought up on Sunday as well, what you're really saying is that we need to we need to do the same thing that we do in the rest of our spiritual life. Right? Like, so we're we're studying the word, we're listening to the spirit.

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Brenton
We're we're looking and striving for sanctification, Right?

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Chris
Yeah. And I think I mean, I'm sure you've had this experience written, and I think most Christians have is, you know, you you start reading the word, studying the word, and you become convicted of something. that's the work of the Holy Spirit. And, but, but then the next time maybe you do do what do you convicted you of?

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Chris
You feel it in a stronger way. It pricks your heart. You know, you use that. It pricks your heart. I think that's the. That's the conscience. Yeah. You know, like, okay, I that's the Holy Spirit speaking and and working through our conscience. Yeah. But it's got to be informed by the word good. So.

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Brenton
Okay, when, when we consider the idea of, of not being a stumbling block to other other believers, we, we typically think about things like that. We need to avoid doing in front of others. Is is there a positive side to this? Like, are we are we bound to to be doing certain things in front of believers or is is Paul really the scope of his point is just like don't do things that are going to offend other people.

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Chris
Well, in our passage from from Sunday, Paul says, So then let us pursue what leads to peace and mutual up building. So I think there's more than simply avoiding things that are going to cause people to stumble. But there's also like, what are these kind of things that lead to to peace with with other believers? And some of that is is certainly not doing things that is going to cause conflict or whatever.

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Chris
But I think there there's other he talks about this mutual building. If you go to Ephesians four, Paul talks about how the body is we each play our part, we build one another up in love. And so I think love is a really key aspect to this. Paul talked earlier in our Romans 14 passages in the first week says, you know, if your brother is grieved by what you do, you're not walking in love.

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Chris
So that's the negative aspect. But there obviously that is a positive of walking in love. And so so how are we expressing love for our fellow brothers and sisters and whether that's by speaking words of encouragement, acts of service, whether it's just trying to figure out how do we come alongside of them and and just be a blessing to them.

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Chris
I think that all of that is is included. And the contrast, of course, is practicing our freedom. And just like I'm free to do this, I'm free to do this. But thinking about, okay, not so much how do I exercise my freedom, but but how do I give my life for the sake of my fellow brothers and sisters to help them to really to grow in their faith and even if someone is is a weak conscience, how do I come alongside them and strengthen their conscience?

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Chris
How can I help them with that?

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Brenton
Yeah, I think that's that's really helpful if we're if we're only focused on, okay, man, I can't do this in front of this person, I can't do this. I think it might kind of bring up more bitterness than anything. But if our if our ultimate goal is just promoting peace between brothers and sisters and gospel unity, I think that the negative aspect of that is going to flow, you know, freely out of that.

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Chris
Yeah, I mean, it's been for weeks, but, you know, Paul goes on in chapter 15. There's downsides of not going systematically through the passage, but he says, you know, we are strong and his aides have, you know, an obligation to the are we brothers and sisters and that's to please them and not to please ourselves. And the example, of course, he says for for not only, you know, not even Christ pleased himself.

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Chris
So so how are we seeking to, you know, serve them and love them and and and encourage them and build them up and it's interesting, you know, Paul uses that word obligation. I guess it's a it's a debt that we we owe to our brothers and sisters.

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Brenton
Yeah. Good.

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Chris
In fact, there's another passage. I don't remember the exact passage, but Paul says, you know, no, no, on anything except for love. You know, that's the only that, that you should keep outstanding is a debt to love so. Well, I mean, I think we all know just practically in our relationships, the more others focus we are, the more that we put others needs in front of our own and wants, the better our relationships tend to go, right?

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Chris
I mean, sure, it it whether it's a marriage or a working relationship, it's it's when we make it be about ourselves and we're self-centered, that that just creates chaos. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Brenton
I think that's that's a good direction to come at this from. I think that that's going to connect with people a lot more than you know don't do this. So that's, that's helpful right. I'd like to move on to some submitted questions and they're, they're kind of related. but I'll try to kind of summarize these in my own way.

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Brenton
they're, they're both kind of having to do with spiritual trauma or hang ups or, you know, I think we've all in some way probably experienced legalism in our past. And so looking back on that and trying to figure out now, okay, I have all of these, these kind of things in my in my head I'm I'm maybe convicted by things that I that I shouldn't be.

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Brenton
How would you tell someone that's coming out of a more legalistic background? How would you help them kind of work through that and and heal from that?

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Chris
Yeah, that's a great question. And I have a fair amount of experience with this and pastorally. But I also, you know, just personally, I've had to kind of walk this road myself and, and the first thing I would say is it takes time. So it's not there's not an easy button here. Like you just flip a switch and it happens.

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Chris
it, it oftentimes, you know, people have lived in this kind of environment for decades. Oftentimes they have, you know, family that's connected there. And, and, and so there's just a lot to unwind. And so it in many ways just requires patience, to be honest with you. And so that's necessary. It's needed and patience not only by the people who are walking, you know, through it, but also people who are around them.

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Chris
And you need people around you who can who's who maybe gone down that road before. That's really, really helpful to someone who's further along in the journey. So trying to find those kind of people and people who who have had this similar experience, but also who are healthy and are getting healthy and are maturing and whose consciences is growing stronger.

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Chris
Someone who has a stronger conscience than than you do. So that's that's really important for for me, you know, pastorally, if I'm going to be talking to someone, I'm going to do a lot of a conversation. I have a lot of covered session around kind of that diagram that I, I shared on Sunday. I think it's really important we we have to understand what the gospel is and what the absolutes are and be rock solid on those things.

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Chris
And then to recognize that outside of the gospel and the absolutes, there are important things, but there are no essential things. And and they're not essential. They're not essential for salvation. And they're not essential for, for being pleasing to God. And, and so one of the things really important things from Romans 14 that we've got to get is that Paul's telling us that people can have different opinions.

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Chris
And I think you can even bleed over into convictions honestly and still be, you know, pleasing to God. So I use the you know, even use the baptism example here. I think somebody can be, you know, some subscribe to infant baptism and still be fully pleasing to God. And even though I, you know, I subscribe to Believers of Baptism, I believe that that is an issue that Christians can disagree on and still be Christians, which means still be pleasing to God.

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Chris
So I just think it's absolutely essential that we know what the gospel and the absolutes are, and then we don't conflate even conviction chains with absolutes and learning learning to do that. But it's honestly, I don't think it's terribly hard to do if we're willing to kind of put some time and effort into it and some thinking into it.

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Chris
But I think a lot of our problems and our struggles come when we even will make convictions and some important convictions. We put them on the level of absolutes in the gospel. And so when we when we really we really get the what the gospel and the absolutes are and how they are infinitely more important than anything else, then that gives us, I think, the freedom to do to to be okay.

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Chris
If people disagree with our convictions and our opinions. So it's just that the problem the problem becomes, you know, in in legalism, the problem becomes when we make opinions and even even convictions, we make them absolutes. And and so it gets really it gets really, really hard and really, really difficult when you when you come out of that to separate those things out that that really is that really is the issue is is is separating you know the opinions and even convictions out from the absolutes.

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Brenton
Yeah okay. One thing I find interesting that that you know I've seen happen quite a bit coming out of a legal is background is that you're your mind or you're Yeah I to say your mind kind of moves faster than your conscience so we can we can have we can be convicted in our mind about okay this thing isn't a sin like the thing that I used to believe is a sin.

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Brenton
I don't believe it is anymore. But that that natural response of the conscience is still there. And so, you know, it kind of produces like this anxiety or fear in someone that, man, I'm doing something wrong. But wait, I, I don't actually think that's wrong. Do you have any thoughts on that or, you know, how to how to kind of bring your mind and your conscience together on these issues as we as we heal?

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Chris
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And you kind of put your your finger right on it. And and again, I think it I think it takes time. I think it it's helpful to be in a church community where there's a lot of grace, I think, where people really can really struggle with this as if they're in a in a church environment or could even be in a family environment where there's not a lot there's not a lot of grace.

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Chris
And so when there's not a lot of grace, people are just afraid. You just live out of fear. And when you live out of fear, it's going to be really, really hard for your conscience to catch up to your mind. But when you're in an environment where you're you're you're not looking over your shoulder every time you do something.

00;21;32;13 - 00;22;10;09
Chris
Yeah. You know, to think, okay, here, here, here comes the judgmental ism, here comes the hammer. You know, when you can be free to to not be okay and not to always get everything right. And where you will experience grace, even if you have a weak conscience, even if you struggle with fear, even if you do slip up and you do, you know, you fall into sin, it having that, you know, having that environment, those relationships.

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Chris
So if you talk about transformation, transformation happens where where you can be vulnerable in a relationship of trust. So, you know, when you have a relationship of trust and you experience grace in that in your weakness, that's where transformation actually takes place. So that's one of the reasons why we're really trying to develop a culture of grace at Harmony Bible Church is so that people, their so their minds can can their consciences can catch up with their minds.

00;22;45;12 - 00;22;59;16
Chris
And and they're not living out of fear and they're not living either with a sense of judgmental ism for other people or even for themselves.

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Brenton
Yeah. Okay. So connected to that a little bit still kind of coming out of, you know, a situation of legalism. What is what is our responsibility to protect other, you know, weaker brothers as we would see them from judgmental ism, You know, I mean, examples would be like the there's a there's a, a group of people that has high opinions on how we dress.

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Brenton
So so now after coming out of that, we don't see that in scripture. We don't we don't see it to the same extent as they do. Are we responsible still for for their judgmental ism? How do we how do we handle that? Should we now, you know, still continue to address the same way just to avoid someone falling into sin of of judging us?

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Brenton
Does that make any sense?

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Chris
Yeah, it does. And this is this is tricky. And and in some ways it requires, you know, pastoral guidance in individual situations rather than trying to give blanket statements to it. Right. I, I think that it does depend upon whether that person is coming and being a part of your, you know, social gathering, so to speak, or you're going and being a part of theirs.

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Chris
And so, you know, like if you if you use you bring up the clothing issue like our at Harmony and, you know, and almost, you know, not only just in our church gatherings, but whether it's in our community groups or environments or whatever the culture, what we do is we're very you know, we don't have a dress code.

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Chris
And so I don't I don't think it really applies that that we would be need to to be concerned about causing another brother or sister to be judgmental if they come into our environment. You're like, this is this is this is who we are. This is what we're trying to be. I think it's a different question. If you go into if you would go into someone else's environment and that's kind of the culture that they have of, you know, standards or whatever of here's how, here's how we dress and here's how we we kind of do things.

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Chris
I think you need to be more sensitive to it. And so, you know, to give an example here, my my in-laws, my mother in law only wears dresses and that's you know, she she's done that basically since she got married. And so and that's what what Iva kind of grew grew up in. And and so her family knows how you know we view that and what they can expect if they come to our house or they come to our, you know, to harmony or whatever.

00;26;21;27 - 00;26;58;16
Chris
But when Iva goes and is around her mom and she was especially like this before her her her dad died because he was very staunch and it was very important to him. She would she she would she does wear skirts. They're around them. So and and so I don't know if that's helpful or not. But I think that it it's been you know, the clothing thing is I don't know how much we should be worried about whether or not somebody is going to look down on us.

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Chris
And that I think the alcohol example is is is maybe an example that that maybe is a little bit better. You know, if we know someone has scruples about drinking alcohol, then we shouldn't, you know, have them. We shouldn't. And when we write them over, we shouldn't get the alcohol out. Start drinking around that, right.

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Brenton
Yeah.

00;27;24;15 - 00;27;56;25
Chris
Right. I mean that's a simpler example. But I think one that, that actually does speak to this is like we need to be thinking about are we going to cause them to stumble on being sensitive to that when it's more of a personal situation rather than in a kind of large group and and those kind of things. So we've got to be careful because it would be possible here to allow one or two weak brothers to control the entire church over something.

00;27;56;27 - 00;28;02;05
Chris
Yeah. You know, like and so I think that that matters, too.

00;28;02;08 - 00;28;28;09
Brenton
Yeah, Well, it's something you said on Sunday was, you know, we don't we don't want to flaunt our freedom, so we we're comfortable in our freedom, and and we should be. But, you know, when we get to the point where, you know, almost this kind of attitude, well, I'm free to do it. So I'm not I'm not really worried about what they think is they're wrong like that.

00;28;28;09 - 00;28;50;27
Brenton
I think that's where you you start to, you know, cross that line. But I don't know. There's there's tons of examples that we could bring up of, you know, questions of in this situation. Is it okay to do this? And I think somehow we kind of need to find just a general guideline of of how to think about this.

00;28;50;27 - 00;29;07;28
Brenton
And I think that's helpful that, you know, you would kind of split it up between, you know, if you're going into their world, then respect what their what they believe. But but that doesn't mean that we need to change our our entire world to to fit their beliefs.

00;29;08;01 - 00;29;43;25
Chris
Yeah. I mean be be sensitive to it without necessarily allowing the the weaker brother to to dominate everything and so I think flaunting our freedom I, you know if I go back to the alcohol thing, I've seen people who formerly were not free in that area become free and then they go on social media and they're going to feel all these pictures of themselves, you know, with with a glass of beer or something like that.

00;29;43;28 - 00;30;15;24
Chris
And they've got a bunch of, you know, frat friends with Facebook or whatever who are still so, you know, still believe that's wrong. That that too in going and flaunting I think is is violating exactly what Paul's talking about in Romans 14. Yeah so you know keep it between your you know, the faith you have, keep it between yourself and God and and that I don't think that that means that you you never have anybody else that knows, you know your position.

00;30;15;24 - 00;30;26;15
Chris
I don't think that's the case at all. But yeah it's it's not like I'm going to just go in and blast this out and and just make a big deal out of it. So.

00;30;26;20 - 00;30;53;00
Brenton
Yeah, for sure. So okay, but then with that, is there room for, you know, in that, in that situation where you have a weaker brother that's, that's really against something that we now find freedom in. Is there room for us to to argue that point to to convince them that that it is okay and how do we go about that.

00;30;53;03 - 00;31;19;07
Chris
Yeah. I wouldn't use the word argue. I think there's room for two to discuss it and and I didn't understand what you mean by argue, but argue seems more like aggressive or whatever. I think it's it's more Birgitte, you know, gentle conversations. Gracious conversations like let's talk about this. You know, what what does the Bible actually say about these things?

00;31;19;13 - 00;31;48;09
Chris
And I actually I absolutely do think that there's room for that. I mentioned on Sunday that in the implicit command that Paul I'm sorry, the explicit command Paul gives about don't sin against your conscience. There's an implicit command that you need to read, educate your conscience. I mean, Paul's Paul's pretty clear, you know, he's convinced. He's persuaded in the Lord that nothing is unclean.

00;31;48;11 - 00;32;25;12
Chris
Yeah, he's pretty clear that, you know, especially like the drinking of wine is, is a matter of opinion. But. But even in that matter of opinion, he's persuaded that it's. It's permissible for, for a believer to participate in that. And so there is an it an implicit really command to reeducate our conscience. And I think, by the way, when I mentioned this is for everybody, because I, I really do believe that almost every Christian is strong in some areas and weak in other areas.

00;32;25;18 - 00;32;51;19
Chris
So I don't think it's like wholesale. You're either stronger, weak. I think it's it's probably a little bit of both for most of us. But yes, and I think part of reeducating our I don't think we we can probably do that very well on our own. I think we need other believers. I mean, like personally, other believers have been, been huge for me in helping me with this.

00;32;51;19 - 00;33;25;16
Chris
So believe it or not, I kind of allude to the King James only position as talked about that a number of times over the years. I actually like I that was, that was me when I was in high school and and for a year or two in college and it was other believers some of them my age actually my brother younger brother was was was very helpful in that in helping me to come come out of that.

00;33;25;18 - 00;33;46;19
Chris
And so I needed I needed other people to speak in the truth. And and to me and to graciously. They weren't always gracious. You can't imagine that college you know, college young men are always that gracious. I think conversations like that. But, you know, I needed other people.

00;33;46;21 - 00;34;16;13
Brenton
So. Yeah, well, I think that as we as we consider having those conversations, we also need to again realize that these are secondary issues that we it it in the end like there's there's not a lot of like the King James one is a is a is a good example because there there is repercussions from that right like there there are negatives in my view at least to to believe that the King James is the only through word of God.

00;34;16;16 - 00;34;41;15
Brenton
But again, it's not it's not a gospel issue. We We can there's plenty in the King James Bible to to bring about salvation through the spirit. And so we need to put these topics in their rightful place before we have these conversations and understand that, you know, most of them just don't really matter.

00;34;41;17 - 00;35;14;28
Chris
Yeah, And I think that this is going back to the less pursue what leads to peace and mutual building. Having these conversations, though, and we're not trying to win the argument. We're not trying to prove that we're right. We're not trying to, you know, our position is superior. How do we have the conversation with our brothers and sisters in such a way that we help them to re reform their conscience so that they become stronger?

00;35;15;00 - 00;35;43;15
Chris
And so that mean there that that might seem like not an important nuance, but I think it actually is a huge, huge one because so often times we're just we're kind of like we want to just be a bulldozer and you need more of a gentle kind of let let let me show you that I'm really concerned about you and want to help you here rather than just, you know, make sure that you understand, you know, where I stand.

00;35;43;18 - 00;35;44;19
Chris
Yeah. So.

00;35;44;21 - 00;36;11;12
Brenton
Yeah, well, there's a ton of different directions I could go from here. I think I'm just going to close with one question that I think is relevant to our discussion here, and I it'll probably be quick, but you brought up, you know, our, our freedom as American citizens here is, is really ingrained in us. And I think we have a very individualistic view of ourselves to some extent.

00;36;11;12 - 00;36;29;03
Brenton
I don't I don't think that's bad. But how does our freedom and Christ differ from from that individual freedom as an American citizen? And how do we kind of pass those out, too, to be helpful in these in these situations?

00;36;29;06 - 00;36;58;07
Chris
I think it might be the most helpful to begin the answer here by considering our brothers and sisters in, say, China or North Korea. They have the same, you know, freedom as believers that we do. They have freedom in matters of clothing and drink and eating and a whole bunch of other issues. Which day of the week, you know, we go to church and those kind of things.

00;36;58;10 - 00;37;30;02
Chris
They obviously don't have the same individual and personal freedom that we do, and most of them will never will. And so it should be really obvious that these two things are not the same. And we need to recognize it's very easy to conflate, conflate these two things. We should be thankful for the individual freedoms that we have, but we should and really, really be thankful and grateful that we live in a country where we have those individual freedoms.

00;37;30;02 - 00;38;07;13
Chris
But we should even be willing to to give up those freedoms. Should you? You know, things change with our government, but also we should be willing to give them up for the sake of obviously, peace and mutual building relationships, not only within the church, but actually outside in a community. And I think that the biggest danger is, is just, you know, we surprise individual freedom and it's central to America.

00;38;07;13 - 00;38;31;21
Chris
And that's a really, really good thing. It's been a really, really good blessing. It's allowed the gospel to go forward here and around the world in an incredible way. But that that's not that that does not mean that, like, we've got to be careful that we don't take that value, which is it's a good value, but it's so highly valued here.

00;38;31;21 - 00;38;44;27
Chris
And then we bring it into the church and that prevents us from recognizing how we need to be willing to lay down our freedom, the good of our brothers sisters. Yeah.

00;38;44;29 - 00;39;07;06
Brenton
Well, it's good to recognize I mean, we had we had been over, you know, the state of Rome when when Paul was writing this, that, you know, he he didn't share these freedoms that we have. And in many ways. And so to understand that he's writing all of this under under that situation is is something to to consider as well.

00;39;07;08 - 00;39;43;19
Chris
Yeah. I mean, my concern is, is that we it seems to me that many Christians are much more passionate about, say, you know, the freedom to bear arms than they are about, you know, being willing to lay down your your freedom. And we're talking about we're not talking about the gun situation, but but in the church and real issues of our sisters laying down our freedoms for the sake of peace and for the sake of unity and the sake of the gospel going forward.

00;39;43;25 - 00;40;17;00
Chris
And so yeah, I'm very thankful for the Second Amendment, really, really thankful for it and would be concerned about any attempts to undo that as an American citizen. But I, I want to be and hopefully I am much more passionate about unity in the church and recognizing that for that to happen, I've got to be willing to put aside my own freedom that I have in Christ so that the the church can grow and unity and therefore the gospel can go forward.

00;40;17;02 - 00;40;37;28
Brenton
Yeah, I appreciate that. I think these are good things to think about and I hope this this has been helpful. I know we've had a lot of, you know, questions come our way and hopefully these were these were helpful to you. If you do have follow up questions, please feel free to reach out. Ask it further. Podcast dot com.

00;40;38;01 - 00;40;51;06
Brenton
Chris, I appreciate you taking some time out of your vacation and I hope that you guys can understand him because I know he could out a few times, but I think, I think we're good. So I appreciate it and we will talk to you guys next week.