Sustainability SmartPod
Sustainability SmartPod
The Future of Refrigeration, with Pam Klyn from Whirlpool
Last year, Whirlpool introduced a novel insulation technology that could represent a significant breakthrough in refrigerator design and sustainability. The technology, known as SlimTech™, replaces traditional polyurethane foam with a proprietary powder-like material held in a vacuum, addressing longstanding recyclability issues in refrigerator manufacturing.
Pam Klyn, executive vice president of corporate relations and sustainability at Whirlpool, joins the podcast to talk about SlimTech and the broader landscape for sustainable refrigeration and emissions reporting. Like many multinationals, Whirlpool faces challenges in managing Scope 3 emissions, which largely depend on product use in consumers' homes. They're developing systems to better estimate and report these emissions while focusing on tangible product improvements. Innovations like SlimTech support the company's goal for net-zero emissions in its operations by 2025 and a 25% reduction in Scope 3 emissions by 2030 compared to 2016 levels. But while appliance manufacturers like Whirlpool have made substantial improvements in energy efficiency, the source of electricity powering homes also has a major impact on emissions.
Highlights from Pam Klyn
Challenges with polyurethane in refrigeration (2:00)
What is SlimTech? (3:18)
Whirlpool's road map for SlimTech's end of use applications (5:26)
Global landscape for sustainable refrigeration (7:03)
Whirlpool's leadership in sustainability (9:12)
The role of the grid in modern home appliances (11:32)
Challenges and opportunities in reporting emissions (13:02)
Challenges in complying with different regulations worldwide (16:33)
Whirlpool's net-zero goals (19:10)
(Note: This transcript was transcribed with help from AI. It has not been edited verbatim)
Evan Milberg: Welcome to another episode of the Sustainability SmartPod. I'm your host, Evan Milberg. You know, when we talk about product sustainability, it's perfectly reasonable to ask the question, how does this affect my actual daily life? In some cases like Whirlpool, it's quite obvious. They manufacture many of the home appliances we depend on every day. So ensuring that those are as efficient and low carbon as possible is essential to a more circular future.
However, one of the biggest barriers to greater sustainability and refrigeration has been low recyclability duty polyurethane foam. But late last year, Whirlpool introduced a new technology called SlimTech, which they say marks, quote, the beginning of the end for foam insulated refrigerators. To learn more, I spoke with Pam Kline, executive vice president of corporate sustainability at Whirlpool. Pam, thanks for joining us today.
Pam Klyn: My pleasure. Thank you very much, Evan.
EM: So let's start off by having you tell us a little bit about your background and how you landed in your current role.
PK: Sure. Absolutely. So I've been at Whirlpool 31 years ever since I graduated undergrad as a mechanical engineer. And I've spent about half my career here on the engineering side or product development side and half my career on the marketing side and had roles of increasing responsibility, including an opportunity to serve as vice president of products and brands in Europe and understand that business. Spent some more time on our engineering product development side of things, and then two and a half years ago, was elevated into this role. And it was also at that time that we elevated sustainability to the executive committee as well, But I will tell you, sustainability and caring about the environment is very foundational to Whirlpool, and we can talk about that in a minute. But, in a nutshell, that's my background and how I got to where I am.
EM: I found a Whirlpool press release from November where you guys mentioned that, the low recyclability due to polyurethane, has been something that's held the industry back from greater sustainability. So I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about why. What makes that the case?
PK: Yeah, absolutely. So polyurethane is a foam that's used in refrigerators across the industry and has been for well over 50 years that foam is very sticky so it adheres to any other components that's around so the refrigerator liner as well as the Exterior of the refrigerator the metal portion of it as well. And because polyurethane is toxic, and sticky, it causes two issues. You can't burn it, and it's very difficult to remove from those components on either side of it, so you're not able to separate it from those components and recycle the metal or recycle the plastic liner, because it has the polyurethane stuck to it. If you could burn it, you could potentially separate it, but that causes toxic fumes. So there just aren't a lot of great options for how you can recycle a refrigerator at this time. And that's why we're so excited about our latest innovation in refrigeration, which is SlimTech insulation technology.
SlimTech is a completely different way to insulate a refrigerator, which involves a completely different way to design and provide structure to a refrigerator as well. So it skips the polyurethane foam and uses a proprietary powder, like material that's held in a vacuum. And it's also not stuck to either side, like I described with the polyurethane foam, but it's a very, very tightly packed porous powder that has tremendous insulation capabilities. So it also is a much thinner wall thickness to achieve the same level of insulation that we see, with the polyurethane foam.
EM: Can you tell me a little bit about the manufacturing operation and how that contributes to the sustainability of the product?
PK: Sure. Absolutely. So we've invested tens of millions of dollars just in the development of the technology. And in addition to that, the capital investment and the equipment required. To then manufacture this has been part of a $65 million investment within Ottawa, [Ohio]. A big component of that has been how to manufacture products with slim tech insulation That door is now thinner, but it's more dense and it's heavier. So the hinges have to be completely redesigned. Same for the other structural components of the refrigerator. And because the cavity can be so much bigger, the whole product will need to be redesigned bottom up. So there's a lot of engineering with that. There's a lot of capital investment with that as well to really optimize this technology. So that's one reason that we're phasing it in over time.
50+ years of making refrigerators the way we've always made them same for the rest of the industry It's very capital intensive to turn this over And so redesigning from the ground up not only the product but also the assembly process radically different to deal with this vacuum insulated structure than it is the polyurethane foam So that's what that investment is going into And this will be the first location that we're manufacturing the products in this way. So it's a bit of a pilot for us to try this out and really optimize it.
EM: So I've also seen that Whirlpool says it's working on a roadmap of sorts. To, figure out how to reclaim the material at the refrigerator's end of use, so can you tell me a little bit about some of those end of life end use applications and how they might come to fruition?
PK: You know, we're really just exploring that. So we know it can be reclaimed and can be recaptured. Freeze up, if you will, the other components around it, the metal and the refrigerator liner to be recycled and or reclaimed and the powder can be reclaimed. Now we're working with different partners to understand how much of that. Should we do ourselves and how much of that could some experts who are already in Those types of businesses do for us So what is the most efficient and effective way to make sure we have maximum reuse of these materials now that they will be available to us in a completely different way 9 million refrigerators a year go into landfills And so this is an opportunity to start to chip away at that. So we want to use not only the fact we're doing a new manufacturing process and providing these great benefits for the consumer now We need to work, to your point, on that end of the value chain and figure out how we get all those pieces right and because it looks very different from today we need to explore some things with experts who do this and can help us understand how to facilitate it in the best possible way. How do we make sure they don't just send things to landfill? How do we ensure we get those products back or those products get into the hands of the people who can properly reclaim the powder and separate those parts.
EM: That sounds really cool. My next question has to do with not SlimTech itself, but other factors of sustainable refrigeration that are happening. As I'm sure Whirlpool is well aware, there is a widespread effort to phase out hydrochlorofluorocarbons, or HCFCs, In refrigeration. How does a product like this complement those global efforts?
PK: As a company, we're actually a step ahead on the gases that we use and the refrigeration agents that we use. And so what we use is safer for the environment, and also more energy efficient. And HFOs is a really, really big category of chemicals, and some of them are ones that should be eliminated. The majority of them are perfectly safe for the environment, so kind of separating out that big label, similar to the PFAS situation, to be completely honest and saying, "Hey, here are the ones that are really bad and what no one should be using." In some cases, there aren't any other options. Separate those. But in this case, you could potentially be penalized for being a step ahead and lumped into there. It would actually impact our energy efficiency on our current products, as well as some other areas. But keep in mind, refrigerators today are already, dramatically more efficient than what they've been in the past. They use about the same energy as a 50 watt light bulb. So the only refrigerator that's really using a lot of energy is that 20 to 30 year old refrigerator that someone has in their garage, because it's not at the same level of energy efficiency and it's also fighting against the elements. We can continue to make strides in energy efficiency. Everyone across the industry has really done a pretty tremendous job the focus now on reclaimability is a fantastic complement to that.
EM: I'm curious as to, you're alluding to a larger industry effort. Can you tell me a little bit about that and what you feel like is happening outside of Whirlpool in this area?
PK: Yeah. So in Whirlpool, honestly, Whirlpool Corporation has led the way in a lot of ways. And I referenced it earlier. back in 1970, our CEO at the time set up an office of the environment. So we were doing sustainability before sustainability was cool. And in his letter to the shareholders at the end of the previous year, he said, We cannot separate our business from the communities in which we work and live and hope to grow and prosper as a company.
He saw the need to care for the environment as well as the community in a holistic way all the way back then. So it's very foundational for us. And he, played a key role, in the early energy standards and the entire industry has been instrumental in that as well. We've worked closely with the EPA and DOE to help set energy standards.
The appliance standards program was started officially in 1987. And since that time, most appliances Use 50 to 75 percent less water and energy compared to pre-1987, which is pretty dramatic and they also offer more features and capacity. A minivan would have nine seats instead of seven and get 63 miles to the gallon So it really is a fantastic story across the industry and we're proud that whirlpool corporation has led the way on a lot of that.
I would say what's equally important is we refuse to compromise consumer performance. So we're really now at the point with current technologies and cost you really can't squeeze much more out of that lemon. It takes leapfrog innovations like slim tech, insulation in order to get to that next level of efficiency. And like I said, in this case, The actual benefit is more the capacity for the consumer and then the reclaimability on the other side But for example, if you start reducing the water levels in today's washers, they're already so Optimized, when I started working at Whirlpool many years ago Traditional washers used 42 to 48 gallons of water per load Now they use somewhere between 12 and 18 gallons of water per load. So while products in use are 92 percent of our scope three emissions within a home, they're A much, much lower percentage of the total emissions within that environment. So we will continue to make gains.
Obviously, grid is a major factor. What type of energy powers that home? Is it solar? Is it an electric grid? Is it, coal fired grid? Like, what's behind it has much more impact on the emissions. the actual appliances themselves, but there are choices that can be made an induction cooktop is going to have a different emissions level than a gas cooktop. And so consumers can make those choices. There are also benefits potentially for connected appliances. So if you live in an area where the grid is heavily used in your energy rates very dramatically between peak times and off peak times. If you run your dishwasher overnight. You know, before you go to bed, turn it on or after dinner, use the delay cycle to start your dishwasher at 10 PM, you're going to pay a lot less for energy at that point in time than you would at 6 PM when everyone else is using it.
So there are ways that consumers can modify their behavior, and ideally not impact their lives too much at the same time, you know, appliances really are quite energy efficient. So we don't want. That mom whose son has a soccer game at 6 PM to feel like she can't wash that uniform at 4 PM to have it ready for the game. So, I think we've done a fantastic job of creating the right situation where appliances can be used when needed, but there are also choices to kind of optimize, versus, cost of the grid during certain periods of time and there are areas of the country where that makes a dramatic difference.
EM: Interesting. So I want to shift now to more of a business perspective because you alluded to scope three emissions. I'm sure you're aware of the new SEC rules that came in in March, that don't require disclosure GHG emissions, but require some larger public companies to talk about scope one and scope two emissions on a phased in basis material. So can you talk to me a little bit about how that Has changed the landscape of corporate reporting and what Whirlpool has done to react to it?
PK: What's nice is we didn't have to fully react. So we were already measuring those things. And again, we're not trying to be eight steps ahead because quite honestly, that's just not effective and efficient and is a big administrative burden, but we've made sure our reporting systems are in place so we can keep pace . The scope three one gets very challenging because it is about product use in consumers homes. So that will be an estimate based on our sales based on average emissions for these products Scope one and two are things we can measure and do measure. And have targets around and are on track for our targets. So the things within our four walls of control, we have systems and measurements in place and we're investing in systems relative to scope three right now, it's very manual. and so we're investing in that again, to be one step ahead of where we need to be for other companies, the situation is different.
It has been a bit of a scramble to be honest. And I think what we have to be careful with, so obviously I'm very supportive of efforts that help continue to help drive focus. and resources around sustainability, but it needs to be pragmatic. And so if you look at how some of the scope three things were being discussed and what it would require, for us, it would be challenging, but there's some partnership opportunities as well. If you walked into one of our trade partners, Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, and you bought a Maytag or a Whirlpool or a KitchenAid dishwasher, Whirlpool Corporation would be responsible for reporting on those scope three emissions. So would that trade partner, right?
So there's a lot of duplication and then We both would be responsible for what happens to that product after the consumer's done with it. Like that gets difficult. I'm not saying it isn't the right intent, but I think that will drive unique partnerships to help address this. another example I heard from a colleague at a conference I was at in New York last year, who worked for an organization that, owned major sports stadiums, was they would be responsible for how an individual got to that stadium and how they got back home. I don't know how you influence that. Are you going to give discounted tickets for carpooling? and how do you even measure? Did people fly there? Did they drive there? Did they take public transportation? at some point it becomes so administrative that companies are spending so much time and money on resources to manage that.
So I hope and I do think, [we] settle into a sweet spot where it's driving the right progression to reduce emissions because everyone sees the need to do that. But hopefully it isn't such a dramatic administrative burden on companies that you can't even focus on technologies like slim tech. Because you have to spend so much money on reporting, that would be counterintuitive to what agencies are trying to drive.
EM: That's so interesting. The other thing that comes to mind for me is that Whirlpool is a multinational. So you're not just thinking about the landscape in the United States. Every country is doing it a little bit differently. So can you describe the challenges of creating a market strategy where you're in compliance with a bunch of different regulations from different countries?
PK: In some ways it's getting more consistent, which helps in other ways. Obviously Europe's always been the bellwether, especially France. And so we had leading indicators there in the US probably our biggest concern is. If we start having state by state regulations. I think it's really hard, really fast for all manufacturers because having one product that you ship to Ohio and another product that you can ship to California, like it just, it doesn't work quite honestly. Having nationwide based regulations are helpful versus state by state. we dealt with country by country in Europe. Again, France kind of leading the way, and that would be informing us what's likely to happen in Canada and then in the US. What we see, for example, in, India is they're trying to catch up really, really fast and put some regulations in a lot of places all at once. Again, it's well intended, but it's a big catch up where we're fortunate is we've gone through this. We know how to do this. We know how to, you know, make washers more efficient.
So some of that technology has already been built in others. We can make those changes. And they can be at a more cost effective level for those consumers because we have years of practice of knowing how to do that. So, we're at an advantage there and we can help our colleagues drive the right discussions with those agencies to say, we can keep cost to the consumer at a manageable place and you still achieve 90 percent of your energy savings and also, you know, how to work with industry partners to make sure that there's a consistent representation. And so using our best practices has been helpful.
Then you look at Brazil. Their greatest hydro. So how they measure is completely different. and what's being focused on there. There's a lot on circularity and recycling. They're actually quite a bit ahead with that. So we're learning from that organization, some best practices that we can apply in other parts of the world. So it is challenging to keep up, but it can also be beneficial and that's part of my central team's job is to take those pieces and parts, have a coordinated effort for how does this all come together for our corporate ESG goals, but also how do we make sure we're not reinventing the wheel in every region around the world.
EM: Interesting. So I want to talk now about the big concept of net zero and how it applies to Whirlpool. we hear all the time, net zero by 2030, science based target initiatives. can you sort of demystify that a little bit and how that works for Whirlpool?
PK: Net zero for our operations, you know, we're achieving that or have achieved that. That's been a very focused effort and we'll get there by 2025. We're on track. We don't say net zero for scope three emissions because that's basically impossible offsetting all of that. What we want to do is have goals that show continuous progress. Based on what we're doing as a company, rather than purchasing offsets, we want to be able to look anyone in the eye and say, we've made year over year progress, or if you think about the grid. If you sell less volume and or the grid changes more to solar or nuclear That's a grid benefit and our emissions would go down We don't want our emissions to go down because of what other dynamics happen We want them to go down because our products continue to be more efficient . So our targets, are set based on that So we have a scope three emissions reductions target of 25 percent By 2030 and that's versus a 2016 baseline and we are on track for that but holistically You know, net zero for our operations achievable and we'll get there.
And that's everything from, you know, changing out the lights, changing out, our fork trucks, to be electric. We've got onsite, renewable energy. We have wind and solar on site and we're actually in the process of investing in more of that So we will be 100 percent renewable at a number of our operations we also have offsite renewable energies and BPPAs in place as well. We're very conscious of the fact and we hold ourselves accountable for each year, we're going to be able to measure and show how we made a difference.
EM: I think that does it for my questions, but thank you for your time today, Pam, and I look forward to hearing more about this in the future.
PK: Very good. Thank you, Evan. My pleasure.
