Will MacKenzie [00:00:04]:

But until then, I ain't quitting. I'm not gonna quit until I make it, and I will make it.

Cameron Smith [00:00:10]:

That's my next thing into being a better player is kind of maintaining all this stuff and then just basically trying to hit more fairways.

Tom Hoge [00:00:17]:

I'm not a big goal guy. I mean, I just like to keep getting better and kind of take that each day and see where it takes you.

Billy Horschel [00:00:22]:

I was up there in the sense of being able to accomplish some unbelievable things with some great players and a very challenging and deep generation of players.

Chris Kirk [00:00:30]:

If I take care of the small things and I do what I want to do, then the results kind of take care of themselves.

Will MacKenzie [00:00:40]:

I think you'd be surprised. I think there's some better athletes. You think you're a good athlete, right?

Will MacKenzie [00:00:46]:

Okay, then I think there's a lot of guys that are pretty good athletes. We know there's guys that have a high level hand eye coordination. You could go with Steve Marino, like, play darts against this dude? He's going to freaking kill you.

Matt Every [00:00:57]:

I know.

Will MacKenzie [00:00:57]:

Or any backyard game that involves hand eye coordination. There's some world class ping pong players on tour. There's some great pool players. Yeah. As far as jumping, that stuff that you have to maintain and really do to stay good at, maybe DJ and some guys like that, I've seen you.

Matt Every [00:01:17]:

Do gainers over, like, bushes in the pools.

Will MacKenzie [00:01:20]:

I can definitely part of that is also you have to that's mental.

Matt Every [00:01:26]:

You have to be mental.

Will MacKenzie [00:01:27]:

I was flipping. So, like, where I grew up, eastern North Carolina, if you couldn't flip, if you couldn't do a front, like a round off back handspring or round off back flip.

Matt Every [00:01:41]:

You were a cook.

Will MacKenzie [00:01:41]:

You were a total cook. I mean, where I grew up, it was like your black boys and your white boys, the white boys that were cool could flip because the black boys taught us. And I was like, if you couldn't flip at recess, you're like, out there with your thumb up your butt.

Aron Price [00:01:58]:

You're a dork.

Will MacKenzie [00:01:59]:

You're a dork. I mean, you had to be able to flip to be good and to get picked at basketball for homeroom, you had to flip. You had to flip. So I learned to flip in, like, maybe third or fourth grade.

Aron Price [00:02:13]:

But let's be honest, a baseball, a football, soccer, tennis, you're going to play it all. You can look like you've done it half a tour.

Matt Every [00:02:21]:

Oh, dude.

Aron Price [00:02:22]:

It's embarrassing.

Will MacKenzie [00:02:23]:

But they get little one dimensional on golf.

Scott Riley [00:02:25]:

Where did you get that work ethic? Do you think that came late or do you always have that?

Will MacKenzie [00:02:28]:

I think it was just like the only way. I think that was where I was at.

Matt Every [00:02:33]:

This is kind of who you are, too, though. You're full on or checked out?

Will MacKenzie [00:02:38]:

Yeah, not as much now. I don't know if I still have that kind of work ethic that I had. I had a belief. Exactly. I had a belief at that point. I was like, man, it's everything. I'm going to do it and it is what it is. And then I remember talking to my mom. She was like I mean, I was like, chopping or something and not doing any good. And she was like, what do you think, man? Go back to Montana. I had already been become an EMT. I had it made out in Montana. I was going to live like I'd be working at Yellowstone Club just chilling right now. But I was like, I got some.

Aron Price [00:03:16]:

Friends that are members out there.

Matt Every [00:03:17]:

We really fucked that up, Willie. That's a lot better than PGA Tour Live right now.

Will MacKenzie [00:03:22]:

I said, mom, if I fail at Q-school and feel like I play really well and don't get through all right, I'll quit. But until then, I ain't quitting. I'm not going to quit until I make it and I will make it. So she's like, all right, bud, wait a will.

Aron Price [00:03:39]:

You still had the 15 year old mentality in a 25 year old body, right? You sort of like, left for ten years, but you were like, I'm mad. I'm just going to keep going.

Will MacKenzie [00:03:50]:

And if I would have gone straight into it huge. That Costa Rica trip was so vital because if you know, if you look at the dudes on like WSL, every dude's just ripped. I mean, they're in such great shape because you're using your core and you're swimming. Your shoulders are perfect. It's not like it's a huge leg workout, but you're just in great shape. I came back in incredible shape.

Aron Price [00:04:14]:

They're big on that breath work, too.

Will MacKenzie [00:04:16]:

Which I like, I wasn't really doing that down there, but all I was doing is surfing. I wasn't working. I was surfing.

Aron Price [00:04:22]:

It held under for so long.

Will MacKenzie [00:04:23]:

I was eating. All I ate in Costa Rica every single day is rice, beans and eggs for breakfast. Rice, like smoothies and stuff at lunch and then rice, beans and chicken or like ground beef at dinner and smoothies and, like liquor and beer. But that's all I ate was rice, beans, eggs and chicken and smoothies. Tons of smoothies.

Aron Price [00:04:56]:

Nothing out of a packet.

Will MacKenzie [00:04:57]:

Preservative nothing. Dude, I was feeling like a billion bucks when I came back from there. I was just like fired up to go do whatever.

Aron Price [00:05:06]:

I'm guessing you think that, yeah, I am going to win a PJ turbine even though I haven't played competitive golf in ten years.

Will MacKenzie [00:05:11]:

Yeah, probably wasn't that far down, but I knew I was going to get on tour. I knew I'd get on tour. Or it could have been a false sense of confidence or whatever, but I had the picture in my mind that I would be out there. I don't know about winning or I don't know what kind of success I'd have, but I knew I was going to get out there. I just told myself I was. So I was grinding.

Aron Price [00:05:38]:

And your first one was out west, out in the mountains.

Will MacKenzie [00:05:41]:

Tahoe.

Aron Price [00:05:42]:

Yeah, that was felt comfortable.

Will MacKenzie [00:05:44]:

That felt comfortable. The sage all around me. I'd like, walk down the clearway place, grab the sage and rub it all over my body. It was like my deodorant. It smells so good. I was all vibed out.

Aron Price [00:05:56]:

That's an underrated event. I missed always opposite, but Montro was.

Will MacKenzie [00:06:00]:

Yeah, I won tiny events, but they were cool. That golf course was so cool. What was the other one? The old Sanderson farm. It's kind of a whack golf course, but fun. I remember I saw the best greens. I think I missed 18 greens that week, but I got up down 17 times. So work on your short game, fellas.

Matt Every [00:06:23]:

That's right.

Will MacKenzie [00:06:24]:

That's the key.

Matt Every [00:06:24]:

Yeah.

Aron Price [00:06:26]:

Key to scoring, for sure.

Matt Every [00:06:27]:

I was going to say stay in school, but I don't think you subscribe to that.

Will MacKenzie [00:06:32]:

College would have been cool. Oh, no.

Scott Riley [00:06:36]:

Well, this has been the most fun I've ever had on a podcast.

Matt Every [00:06:39]:

Yeah, this is good.

Will MacKenzie [00:06:40]:

Thanks for having me, fellas.

Scott Riley [00:06:42]:

Yeah. You're going to scratch the edge. You turn 50 soon.

Will MacKenzie [00:06:46]:

Come on. I'm going to scratch it. I'm going to definitely go to Q school. They only take five, dudes.

Matt Every [00:06:52]:

How old are you?

Will MacKenzie [00:06:53]:

I'll grind 48. 48 and a half roundup. Yeah. So I'll go, I think they give you two times.

Matt Every [00:07:02]:

Stay active. Look how young this guy looks for 48.

Will MacKenzie [00:07:05]:

Yeah, that's going to be the key, how I feel then. As long as I stay active, I still actually hit it great. I hit the ball real nice.

Billy Horschel [00:07:13]:

Shock.

Will MacKenzie [00:07:13]:

It's just like whether I'm going to be able to putt and chip. There's days that I put decent and your body feel decent shitty. I might have to have maybe a left hip surgery or maybe another left knee surgery, but other than that, I'm pretty good.

Aron Price [00:07:28]:

They've done at the same time.

Will MacKenzie [00:07:30]:

They're like miracles. Those guys will get you in and out, a little quick surge, get you a couple of Vikings, get you a couple of perkies, and you'll be on your feet hitting balls in like, two weeks.

Cameron Smith [00:07:42]:

It's crazy.

Aron Price [00:07:44]:

No problem.

Matt Every [00:07:44]:

You won the 150th Open at St. Andrews. You're in the history books forever. How bad do you want to win a green jacket?

Cameron Smith [00:07:52]:

Yeah, I feel like that's.

Matt Every [00:07:53]:

Do you think you're going to win one?

Aron Price [00:07:55]:

Yeah.

Cameron Smith [00:07:55]:

That is I feel like that's my next one that I really want to tick off. I usually don't expect much of myself. I'm a very much a process guy. Like Pricey says, there's no BS. When I get out to the range, I tick the boxes, I go home, and then I fish or mow the lawn or something. But that one for me, I think, because I've played so well. I genuinely think I've played my best golf around Augusta, it just hasn't lined up. Like, you know, when you win a tournament, you get a lucky bounce or the putts just fall in. I genuinely think for like, three or four times, I've played the best golf I've ever played around Augusta, and nothing's just lined up.

Scott Riley [00:08:32]:

Yeah.

Matt Every [00:08:33]:

And when it does so you just.

Aron Price [00:08:34]:

Keep doing what you're doing. Don't change the thing. Yeah.

Cameron Smith [00:08:36]:

No, there's nothing to change. It's just more putts need to go in.

Matt Every [00:08:40]:

What about when Cam Young makes the yeah, that was Eagle on 18.

Cameron Smith [00:08:47]:

That was a weird scenario as well, because I was playing good on the back nine. I think we had maybe we both had, like, one or two under on the front nine, and I just kept making birdies, and he just kind of kept making birdies, too, but he just didn't make as many as me. He was only two behind.

Scott Riley [00:09:02]:

Were you all feeding off each other at that point?

Cameron Smith [00:09:04]:

I think so. I get along with Cam pretty good. I've played with him a few times before that. He's a good lad. He's caddy, lives here in Jacksonville, so we've spoke a bunch. We both like the local pub PVO, so I see him down there a few times. But, yeah, we had a really good vibe going in that group, and there was a lot of kind of momentum.

Matt Every [00:09:25]:

In that group when everyone was kind of all over Rory, too, that day. And he was stuck in neutral, basically.

Cameron Smith [00:09:31]:

Yeah, I feel like that's with those last five or six holes there, they're hard to make birdies on, and when you're just trying to make pars, it's almost even harder.

Aron Price [00:09:41]:

So as good as you guys were playing that back nine, there was, like, a little chatter. Everyone was game face, back nine, St. Andrews.

Cameron Smith [00:09:50]:

Yeah, there was definitely less. It wasn't like we were walking down the fairway holding hands, but that would.

Aron Price [00:09:55]:

Have been cool if you did two Cams skipping down the fairway.

Matt Every [00:09:59]:

What's the night like before the final round?

Scott Riley [00:10:01]:

What did you do?

Matt Every [00:10:02]:

Were you staying with Sam that week?

Cameron Smith [00:10:03]:

No, we were staying sam was in a house. I stayed at the hotel night before the final round. I was so pissed at myself because I had the lead on Friday, and I felt as though I played really good on Saturday. Just nothing went in. So I spent a bit of time on the green with Graham, my coach, and I felt like I was hitting good putts. They just weren't going in. Like, that happens. So before I went to bed, I just wanted to see some putts go in. This is like 730 or 08:00 at night. We're out there after media and stuff, and I was there for maybe 5 minutes just watching the putts go in. Nothing crazy, no technical, nothing changed. It's just I wanted to see the pool go in, and then I think I was so tired from the day. It was windy, it was a hard day out there. Just tired. Went back, had room service, went to sleep. I never have trouble sleeping. I'm the best sleeper in the world.

Matt Every [00:10:54]:

Isn't it amazing how much a little wind and cold will beat you up at the end of a day? I mean, you're exhausted after a windy, cold day.

Aron Price [00:11:03]:

Speaking of Grant, that was the first time you had worked in person with him for quite a couple of years, right?

Cameron Smith [00:11:07]:

Yeah, it was about two and a half years since I'd seen Grant. Yeah, so it was awesome. He come the week before to the Scottish Open. First time the whole, I guess, team had been there altogether for a long time, so it was good. We did some really good work. And on the weekend at the Scottish Open, I really felt like my game was just kicking in the gear. I think we had two or three weeks off before that and you just lose a little bit of that kind of competition, I guess. Mojo on the weekend I played really good at the Scottish Open and then felt really confident going into the next week. I knew I've played around St. Andrews before. I love the place. I think being from Queensland in the tropics, it's genuinely difficult to play in cold shit weather, so the weather had to be good. I don't think I can mentally get around contending in an Open when it's like sideways rain and cold. I just don't think I can do that. I don't know, I just never done it.

Aron Price [00:12:00]:

So my whole thing is with the way golf changes. Track man kids at twelve and 13 and 14, we were taught to swing smooth, find your swing. Now they're just taught to rip it like post tiger. How much stuff are you doing with Track Man and Grant? Do you just send the numbers to Grant?

Cameron Smith [00:12:15]:

He looks at it.

Aron Price [00:12:16]:

You don't do Track Man ever or just when needed.

Cameron Smith [00:12:19]:

I think Track Man is a great tool to create a feel. I think a lot of people think that it's getting rid of feel in the game. I think it's great to feel what you're feeling, whether it's a swing thought or a posture change or something, and then get a number off it to then create that feel and then you feel confident and so it gives you.

Aron Price [00:12:38]:

Instant feedback, like, I feel this, but it doesn't work out on Track Man. If I do this, it works.

Matt Every [00:12:43]:

Is it that way? Are you using it every time you're like, having a session on the range?

Cameron Smith [00:12:49]:

I would say like 50% of the time. I'm not a massive numbers nerd. Basically all I want to know as a player, and same goes with Sam, as well as how far is the ball going, a fade goes, whatever, which.

Aron Price [00:13:02]:

Changes week to week in Jetta.

Cameron Smith [00:13:05]:

But when the technical stuff is off. I think it's a great way, it's a great tool to have to create the feel and to get back to kind of stock standard number.

Matt Every [00:13:15]:

Have you done any of that Gears stuff?

Cameron Smith [00:13:18]:

Yeah, we didn't do any kind of technical changes. I don't think it would be weird for me to say this, but the driver is by far probably the worst club in my bag. I feel comfortable with it, but for some reason it just doesn't want to play up. It always plays up. I think throughout the year probably about you'll be clarified.

Aron Price [00:13:38]:

You're not a bad driver of the ball.

Cameron Smith [00:13:40]:

It's just not as good as you.

Aron Price [00:13:41]:

Are from 100 or from shipping everybody.

Cameron Smith [00:13:43]:

Yeah, I mean, it's not horrendous, but I'd love to hit it. For me, I think yeah, that's my next thing into being a better player is kind of maintaining all this stuff and then just trying to make just basically trying to hit more fairways. I don't care if I hit it further, I don't want to hit it further. I want to be hitting from the short stuff.

Aron Price [00:14:01]:

But the crazy thing is to go from where you are now to being not Fred Funk, but like 12th in Bways hit it's like four or 5%.

Matt Every [00:14:09]:

It's so minimal crazy. Yes.

Cameron Smith [00:14:11]:

To get back to your Gears question, we did a bunch of work with driver kind of different layout, setups with the driver, different shafts, and we come up with something that's definitely a better fit for me. But I think there's still a lot of work to be done there to make me a better player.

Tom Hoge [00:14:27]:

My question is, do you really need all of the top guys to play the same tournaments in elevated events?

Aron Price [00:14:36]:

I think you do because NFL, you have a stable elite product. But I understand as a top player why you wouldn't want to do it. Why would you want to play like Chris Kirk was going to play Riviera this year because it was elevated. Then finally realized after me helping him miss the cut on the bag of Phoenix, he's like, I'm going to earn more points, which he was 47th in the world, trying to hang on to Augusta and more match plays in. I'm going to earn more points playing Honda than I am at Riviera. I don't play well at Riviera. It doesn't matter if it's 50 million. So that's where a golf is different. It's hard to compare that to the NFL or to the NHL where the elite are playing every game. So I don't know, I'd be curious.

Tom Hoge [00:15:17]:

And I think the answer is going to have to come through more through TV ratings and that sort of stuff.

Matt Every [00:15:21]:

But I think there needs to be more movement within that. 70 guys like more opportunity to come in and more opportunity to go out.

Aron Price [00:15:31]:

There is going to opportunity to come in. I think there's ten coming in. The current ten which may slide to 46th on the current money list. Get in. So there is going to be opportunity to get in, but we'll see. As long as these Pip people don't get in, you can't get in the start because you're popular. But I do understand, look, the tournament is putting down 20 million.

Matt Every [00:15:54]:

I remember it might have been like five years ago. I think it was Jay's first year. Whenever that was, there was an email that got sent out and it was, hey, we're doing this new thing where whoever grows their presence on social media the most wins 100 grand. And then second place was 53rd, was 25 and it was like if Aaron Price had 1000 followers and you had 20,000, it was basically body fat done by body fat. Percentage. Percentage of growth. Yes. So I remember emailing Jay back and being like, this is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life. We're promoting Narcissism and insecurity. That's all this is. Here we are. Here we are. Now we have a pip.

Aron Price [00:16:46]:

But I guess I won't mention the name of the tour. Keeps always saying it's got nothing to do with social media when clearly it does because I guess can't lay won the FedEx that you didn't get a sent in pip doesn't participate in mine. I don't know, it's a mess, but I think it's all going to work out just fine.

Matt Every [00:17:04]:

Rest of the year. What are the goals?

Tom Hoge [00:17:07]:

I'm not a big goal guy. I mean, I just try to feel like I keep getting better and kind of take that each day and see where it takes you. But my problem with goals, I mean, you set these outcome goals and this and that and some golf courses, you're just not going to have a chance in the stack up.

Matt Every [00:17:23]:

Yeah, that's a similar answer we've heard today.

Aron Price [00:17:26]:

Yeah, early podcast work, obviously, sports, ecologists. And one guy had it perfectly, but he's like, if you have to say that your goal is to win, you're not in the right elite category. Of course, it's everyone's DNA is to win. It shouldn't even have to be a goal. Maybe five wins or something. It's not. You just want to try and win every event.

Scott Riley [00:17:48]:

Yeah.

Scott Riley [00:17:49]:

And you've got that first win at pebble. What was different that week? What do you think clicked?

Tom Hoge [00:17:55]:

Well, I mean, I'd been playing really well for a decent stretch there, so.

Scott Riley [00:17:59]:

I want to say Matt might have called that one. He was on a stretch.

Aron Price [00:18:02]:

You play really well in Palm Springs a couple of weeks.

Tom Hoge [00:18:04]:

Second in Palm Springs couple weeks before in the field. The last tournament RSM, I was in the second to last group. I finished fourth. So I've been playing well and I just think being around the lead that many times, I definitely called that one helps out.

Scott Riley [00:18:16]:

It's got to be one of the hardest tournaments to win too, playing it on so many different courses. Pace of play, AMS good.

Aron Price [00:18:22]:

I think it could work both ways.

Billy Horschel [00:18:23]:

Yeah, I think it could work.

Matt Every [00:18:24]:

Yeah.

Tom Hoge [00:18:24]:

I mean, I had a good partner and I enjoyed it. For some reason. I seem to do a little bit better when I'm playing with the AMS.

Aron Price [00:18:32]:

They can relax you or can they can frustrate the living shit out of you both ways.

Tom Hoge [00:18:36]:

So both of those events last year, I had good partners the whole way and really enjoyed the days out there. And we had good weather at both of them, so they're pretty easy days.

Aron Price [00:18:46]:

The best thing you can have an amateur partner, any of those events is someone on the first hole that has a putt for like, ten foot of a par and you're already in for par and they pick it up. You're like, yes. You just know that they understand that they're the secondary tier. Like, let the players play.

Matt Every [00:19:05]:

Most all of them do that, though.

Aron Price [00:19:08]:

Well, I guess some. I've only I played pebble a couple of times, but the New Zealand Open and stuff like that, which turned into a prom. I had an American lady. She was crazy high up at Discovery. She was touted she picked up like a 20 footer on the first off of partner. I was like, she was the best amateur partner of all time. As soon as she couldn't contribute, she would get out of our way, get off the green like too much legend.

Scott Riley [00:19:29]:

Did you all play well? I mean, you're playing well with your Am, though.

Tom Hoge [00:19:35]:

I think we finished like 6th or 7th.

Scott Riley [00:19:37]:

Yeah, that's that always blows my mind.

Tom Hoge [00:19:38]:

We made the cut. I think I was tied for the lead at that point. I was in the second to last group, but I think it was Andrew Putnam was tied for the lead as well. His partner had missed the cut, which is pretty impressive to do. I think he had to help two shots for 54 holes and kind of do it.

Aron Price [00:19:52]:

Wow. You don't see that very often.

Matt Every [00:19:55]:

No, you don't.

Tom Hoge [00:19:56]:

They had the flip side this year with Rogers. I mean, he was playing with Ben Silverman, who was two over par through 36 holes, and Rogers was 23, 21 under.

Matt Every [00:20:05]:

Yeah. How many shots is he getting? Ten.

Tom Hoge [00:20:07]:

I heard ten.

Matt Every [00:20:07]:

Yeah.

Aron Price [00:20:08]:

Keith Mitchell and La Monty were talking.

Matt Every [00:20:10]:

About that like a two.

Tom Hoge [00:20:11]:

Yeah, I looked it up. You know, you Google it when they did the match last summer. It was like a three handicap for that deal.

Aron Price [00:20:18]:

Yeah, it was silly.

Matt Every [00:20:21]:

Yeah. Have you ever had any famous partners there?

Tom Hoge [00:20:25]:

I have not, no.

Aron Price [00:20:27]:

Maybe next year.

Matt Every [00:20:27]:

Have you met I had Billy Walters one year there. The Gambler.

Aron Price [00:20:32]:

Yeah, it was pretty cool information. Any insight info?

Matt Every [00:20:37]:

This was pretty I was just playing with Phil stuff.

Tom Hoge [00:20:41]:

I was loving I was probably during.

Matt Every [00:20:43]:

It, but I don't know if this.

Tom Hoge [00:20:44]:

Should be on here or not, but I was just playing with Kramer Hickok, and he was saying he's got to know Billy pretty well.

Matt Every [00:20:50]:

He was a great guy.

Tom Hoge [00:20:51]:

He's had a few of the discovery properties and whatnot, but he was telling me all about different businesses and whatnot, and I made the comment I assumed they would have taken everything when he went to jail here. He said, oh, no, I mean, he's got car dealerships and whatever, and he was running meetings out of prison, getting his bets in for the day.

Matt Every [00:21:12]:

That's awesome.

Aron Price [00:21:13]:

That's when you know, yeah.

Matt Every [00:21:17]:

He was super cool partner. It was when Peyton was a free agent. He just left the Colts and he told me to make a futures play on the jets because they were going to try and get the Manning brothers both in New York City. And that's where he thought Peyton was going to go. And obviously he didn't end up going there. He went to Denver.

Aron Price [00:21:44]:

But Billy was betting on Denver.

Matt Every [00:21:47]:

He was just getting betting on the come bush.

Aron Price [00:21:50]:

Maybe he was doing that not silly.

Matt Every [00:21:52]:

Yeah, I'm moving lines over here.

Aron Price [00:21:54]:

Yeah, I'm at every little on mover.

Matt Every [00:21:56]:

No chance. No chance. So are you glad you didn't go to Live?

Tom Hoge [00:22:03]:

Well, I think it all worked out pretty well with all the money we've got.

Matt Every [00:22:07]:

Did it ever get real serious for you? Like where you were like, Man, I.

Tom Hoge [00:22:12]:

Would say I was very anti-LIV, and I got an offer and they put the money in front of me and you're crazy to not look at.

Will MacKenzie [00:22:19]:

At that point, right.

Tom Hoge [00:22:20]:

I mean, my whole deal was I would almost feel guilty if you didn't take the money at that point and you went out and got the driver yips or fall down the stairs or whatever happens, and you don't make any money playing golf again. You almost feel guilty that you didn't take it for your wife and kids, future kids, or whatever it might be, that you got to look at it pretty seriously and try and look at it from all angles and make the right decision.

Billy Horschel [00:22:45]:

So I qualified for the US. Open after my freshman year at Wingfoot. I played really good. The first round shot, I think four or five over, actually. I shot five over. I started triple bogey, bogey. So I was five over after three holes, and then I made 15 straight pars, and I was in like I mean, that was the tough one that year.

Matt Every [00:23:06]:

Fast golf course.

Billy Horschel [00:23:07]:

And then I came out the next day, and I obviously still young, still learning things. I just let the moment overtake me. I just missed a cut. But I remember going back to Gainesville and talking to Buddy, and Buddy's like, what did you learn? And I said a couple of things and I said, do you think you can play out there? I said, yeah, I think three more years here of learning from you, getting better, I think I'll be able to compete out there. And so that was the first moment after playing the US Open that I was like, I can make it on the PJ Tour and I can be successful. I'm the guy who still holds to the I guess maybe I hit my prime in 35. And yeah, I won the FedEx Cup when I was 27 and had three wins by the time I was 27, but obviously I had some years here where I didn't do very much. And then the last couple of years have been really good and I feel like I've still got a lot of ways to get better, but I feel like I've learned what I need to learn. Learn how to prepare for tournaments, learn how to go about it, learn several different things. And I feel like I think the next five years, five to seven years will clearly be the best five to seven years of any time in my career. And it's weird to think that I turned 36 in a month's time and I don't think I'm 36. Obviously I have three kids on the age of eight, but there's times the body fills it once in a while, but I still feel very young. As Matt says, you boy said, I still have tons of energy, so that's never an issue at all. But, yeah, I think the next five to seven years, I'm excited about what is in store and what's to come because I think there's some really cool accomplishments that I'm going to be able to check the boxes on and then leave the tour and be like, wow. For that generation, for my time period, was I the best of that generation? No. But I was up there in the sense of being able to accomplish some unbelievable things with some great players and a very challenging and deep generation of players. Competitions I've always said is a good thing and it's actually helped the PJ Tour. There's a lot of things that a lot of players have tried to get done behind closed doors for a handful plus years and the Tour just never really wanted to do it. But now we're in a position where they have to do it, which is.

Aron Price [00:25:20]:

Great, and learn a lesson for the good.

Billy Horschel [00:25:22]:

Exactly. And so I'm happy that the PJ Tour is making changes and we're going to be fine. We're going to improve as an organization, we're going to get better, we're going to finally grow. Where I was worried about with the product model we had for the last 60 plus years, was it sustainable for another 25 years, 25 years time? And that being the increases in sponsorship and everything else they're going to require, are they going to still be able to increase at the levels they've been with the product that we had? And I'm not saying the players, but. The model that we had because it was sort of becoming just guys were over it. They wanted something different.

Scott Riley [00:25:59]:

So your swing, I mean, you live in tempo town. How long have you had that type of action?

Matt Every [00:26:07]:

Rolls out of bed with that, right?

Chris Kirk [00:26:09]:

Yeah, I've played with Matt and Aaron for a lot of years, so it's kind of always been that way. I certainly work to maintain it.

Matt Every [00:26:20]:

The tempo or the swing?

Chris Kirk [00:26:22]:

The tempo, yeah. Really, it's all relative. So, like, you know, quick for me is probably not going to look quick to the naked eye, but it still is enough for me to hit a shitty shot. My favorite drill to do, and I do it all the time, is with probably a seven or eight iron, typically just a nice all the way to the top and full one Mississippi and then come down in unison. It's interesting. I can make a full backswing and I could stay up there for 10 seconds and then hit it solid.

Matt Every [00:27:00]:

Really?

Chris Kirk [00:27:01]:

It's funny, when I try to get other I'll show other people and try to get them to do it and they're like, all right. And they're up there for like a 10th of a second. Like, how was that?

Matt Every [00:27:08]:

Like Matsuyama kinda?

Chris Kirk [00:27:09]:

Kind of yeah, like even longer. Like, I'll stay up there for really a long time. If anything, when I get off a little bit, my lower body will start a little bit early before my back swing really has time to finish and get into that nice pause. So if I can just get what I feel like is everything kind of hips, shoulders, club, head, hands, all that kind of coming down at the same time and the same speed, and that's one of those feel versus real things. I know that's not what's actually happening, but that's what it feels like to me. Like, everything goes to the top, it stops in unison and then it starts down in unison. And that's when my rhythm feels the best and that's when my ball striking is the best. So you practice the exaggeration of that. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I'll stay to make sure that they start all at the same time. It helps for me to have them stopped for a little while up there at the top. I'm taking mental notes.

Matt Every [00:28:10]:

You're so right about that pause at the top, too, when you tell people to do it, because if you lined our swings up side by side and started them at the same time, I'm probably done with my swing by the time your back swing is completed.

Chris Kirk [00:28:24]:

That'd be pretty close.

Matt Every [00:28:25]:

Yeah, but to your point, there are times I've had coaches where they say, all right, just try and pause at the top here. And I think I'm just fucking camping out up there, man. And there's no pause. There's no pause.

Chris Kirk [00:28:41]:

Yeah. It's hilarious for me to watch people try to do it because people are just not physically capable of stopping.

Matt Every [00:28:48]:

When Liam, he's ten now, but he's not super into golf. But when he gets into golf, I am making him pause at the top because you can't teach that later in life. It's not something you can all of a sudden just get a pause at the top. It's something that some of the stuff.

Aron Price [00:29:04]:

Needs to be learned, really. Like the kids playing baseball, I want to try and get them. I know they're young, but I want them to be able to get a good throwing technique.

Matt Every [00:29:12]:

What do you think is in store for you the rest of the year?

Chris Kirk [00:29:16]:

I don't know.

Matt Every [00:29:17]:

We're doing this right now, bro.

Chris Kirk [00:29:19]:

Yeah, I know schedules changed this past week was a little bit of a whirlwind, for sure. Just trying to kind of wrap my head around everything that's going on. But I've never been someone who set outcome goals at all, so I've just focused on the process that I want to put in every day. I'd have never had goals of even like, I want to win three times or I want to do this or accomplish this or whatever. I feel like if I take care of those small things and I do what I want to do, then the results kind of take care of themselves. But right now, I am kind of probably in need of a little bit of a mental reset. Like, okay, what now? But my two goals for this year were to work harder in the gym in my off weeks because I've always worked really hard during the off season. And then I start traveling on the road and I don't do shit that's.

Matt Every [00:30:20]:

Hard to do it on the road.

Chris Kirk [00:30:21]:

Yeah, especially the real focus for me is to just crush it of the weeks that I am at home. I'm going to go work out today, but it probably won't be anything too crazy, but really go hard on my weeks where I'm at home. And then also I found myself last year in the fall, especially falling into a bad habit, like with my self talk on the golf course. And I was getting into way too often where I'd hit a bad shot or have a bad hole and be like, you suck. Just kind of almost like a depressed, down on myself kind of feeling. And so I've tried to make the beginning of this year, like I said, this was one of two goals, so this was big for me. Switch that to more of you're better than this. I can get pissed off. It's better for me to get pissed off than I'll never be somebody that walks around there and be like, oh, it's okay, you know, hit it in the water. That's fine.

Aron Price [00:31:25]:

Yeah, but people think that just because of the persona, the weeks, they see you, you're playing well, paul Lazinger, but obviously not the case. There's no one that's ever succeeded at golf.

Matt Every [00:31:35]:

Didn't quite the quietest ones get this sneaky pissed off?

Chris Kirk [00:31:38]:

Yeah, I get really upset, and I'm fine with that. I'm fine with being pissed off. But it needed to switch to a place of like I said, you're better than this to expect more of myself. And that's just like, as a total even though it's two different variations of being angry, it's a complete 180 in how you feel about yourself. It's wild that's the only place that really happens, too, is the golf course. I mean, you don't get home, you're like, God, such a bad dad today. I mean, you can really rip yourself apart.

Aron Price [00:32:13]:

You obviously goes out saying you can't hang on to it. You need to get mad and get rid of it. I was always very good at that.

Matt Every [00:32:22]:

It's damn near impossible for your golf, when it's going bad, to trickle into.

Aron Price [00:32:28]:

I used to joke that I would fight Mike Tyson after a three button. I probably would have. He would have punched, but I would have wanted to be punched.

Matt Every [00:32:34]:

They need punching bags behind every green.

Chris Kirk [00:32:38]:

You can decide what you want to.

Matt Every [00:32:40]:

Dude, you kick it. Karate kick. That was signature move.

Chris Kirk [00:32:44]:

Yeah.

Aron Price [00:32:45]:

Seen it?

Scott Riley [00:32:46]:

Yeah.

Chris Kirk [00:32:46]:

Sorry. Dropped his iPad on his toe the other day while we were in Orlando, and he's, like, looking at his swollen a little bit, he's like, do you think my toe is broken? And talking about it, I was like, yeah. I mean, maybe is and maybe isn't, but, you know you know what you can do for broken toe is nothing. You know, last time I broke a toe, I took a week off, and then I just kept playing. Yeah. He's like, How'd you break your toe again? I was like, I kicked my golf back.

Matt Every [00:33:12]:

I remember.

Chris Kirk [00:33:13]:

That happens.