The Atlanta Formula
Hosted by Zettler Clay, this show explores the city's rich culture, history and vibrant energy of the people.
The Atlanta Formula
1. Affordability: Am I In The Right Place?
Like the boy Leland Wayne, metro Atlanta's population is booming. But as our city grows, so does the challenge of keeping it affordable. Is Atlanta becoming a place where its current citizens can no longer live?
As the shadow of high-rises extends over Atlanta, I find myself grappling with the memory of my grandmother's recent passing—a profound loss that echoes the complex narratives built from the people before us. See, she was the one (along with my grandfather, who settled my maternal family into this city. Our heartfelt discussion casts a light on the stark contrasts defining a city celebrated as a black mecca, yet marred by economic disparities and gentrification that upend the dreams of homeownership for many.
This episode is a heartfelt dive into what it means to live amidst a landscape where median home prices soar and income growth lags, and where the vibrant culture of hip hop and comfort food joints offers a balm for the soul. Your ears won't want to miss the cultural pulse of the city, as described by local writer and vibe curator Jeney Barlow, who joins us to celebrate the places and beats that give Atlanta its unique rhythm.
As we wrap up, we turn to practicality, sharing survival tips and resources for those squeezed by the affordability crisis. I'll walk you through leveraging assistance programs, refinancing strategies, and SBA lending, guiding you toward economic respite and empowerment. Finally, we reflect on the profound social impacts of rising costs on community engagement and mental well-being. This journey through Atlanta isn't just about the numbers—it's an intimate portrait of resilience and connection, where every story and every struggle is an opportunity to learn and grow together.
But people are the. I think the other thing you have to look at, though, that these are selling, everything's selling, and and the Developers keep developing and they keep selling. It's not like these high-end Residents don't sell. I mean literally, it could. It could be a month and a half that you haven't gone down there. Oh.
Speaker 4:Yeah, shout out to the Atlanta formula. I'm Zetla clater for Atlanta native. The swatts is my geographical soil and here is where we connect stories told and untold throughout the city To the world beyond. Happy 2024, gregorian calendar new year to all my well-meaning people out there and to the ones who don't mean well that I listen to this. I truly hope that you realize, soon and without catastrophe, that being a hater is not suitable to your long-term interest. Trust me on this. How y'all doing out there, by the way, yeah, I stand out of trouble. Y'all grieving properly? I hope so, because other side, on the other side of this mic, you're listening to a grieving man. Shout out to Melville Ruby Wilson costume music extraordinaire. My consistent shield, the one who nurtured my whatever intellectual gifts that I've shown. She's my grandmother, and you know people may see me or you may listen to me now and you may think well, he doesn't sound like he's grieving, doesn't look like he's grieving, but I sit here now knowing that grieving manifests in different ways. But yeah, yes, past one in September 2023, the same month that we had planned to relaunch the Atlanta formula, and when that happened I said well, you know what, I'll take some time and you know we'll go back out a couple weeks. Well, y'all, it's been about a quarter of a year since that happened and there has been a lot that has happened in my life. That is a lot of learning and, hopefully, growth that has happened in the midst. I want to tell y'all more about me and my story because I feel like, when you know A show was introduced and people out there who had never heard this show before, I can't assume. But I also respect your time, respect my time too, because you know, got things to do, but throughout the show, you know, hopefully you'll see the things that drive me, other things that I feel drives all of us the need for understanding, for growth, for community Right, and being from Atlanta is so many different things happening. It's it's beyond what it's being told right now, and the Atlanta formula is here to serve as a story telling medium, platform for all the dope stuff that ain't being told.
Speaker 4:And we go have segments that reflect that mentality, that idea. First segment it's the math ain't math and in which I talk about a number of quantitative metric that Is relevant to the things that you know it's important to us. Rather, I break it down and then we go from there to subtracting the noise in which we talk about a myth, some truth, quote-unquote as widely promulgated, that Perhaps shouldn't be promulgated in that light or in a different light, d mystifying things, so to speak. From there we go to, probably which is gonna be my favorite segment multiplying the vibes and what you highlight an idea, an initiative, a person, a business, something that is, that is an asset truly to the city of Atlanta and its expansion and in its uplift. And then we go from that to divide and conquer, in which we take on this elephant or something that could seem to be overwhelming and we Divvy it up into small, bite-sized pieces so that we can use it to eat and be fed Nutristically, going forward and I be weighed down and saddle With low agency because, at the end of day, the Atlanta formula is powered by within high agency paradigm. You know, this is not a place where you just gonna come, get information and leave way to press. That's the place you're gonna come and get information and hopefully hear things that you hadn't heard before, connections that you hadn't made before, and come away from the show feeling that yo, atlanta has has always been this incubator of greatness and it is going to continue to be incubate of greatness, but only if we face the truth head on. And I ignore what has been plaguing us and what could sink Atlanta and which today we will talk about. One aspect of that. And, by the way, these shows, these episodes, you know they're much in the form of a Episod TV format in which everything connects to what happens before. So each episode is going on, fold upon a concept that We've already discussed or introduce, a concept to be discussed that drives us toward, but moving this city in a great positive direction. And when that said, this is the Atlanta formula, let's do this.
Speaker 4:Affordability, that's the word I kept coming across in my reading rounds. However, this word became the most clear is when having a conversation with my sister one day. My sister, like many across America, was scouring the housing market for an embo to lay her head and, like many across America, she was flabbergasted at the sorry interest rates and inflated pricing of A housing market that shows no signs of becoming less flabbergasted. With my mental stoked and prime, I did a dive on the Atlanta housing market and was blown away. Here's some data for perspective the city of Atlanta at a 14,300 residents in the past year, nearly tripling the size of the previous year period.
Speaker 4:A recent 2023 study commissioned by Florida Atlantic University Found that, using open source data from Zillow and other providers, atlanta home sale for more than 51% of what they were the largest gap of any city in the nation. The study found that the average listing price in Atlanta was 357,677 dollars, but the expected home value was only 236,627 dollars, which means that if you're looking to buy a home in Atlanta, you could be paying over a hundred thousand more than the actual value of the property. Metro Atlanta sheer amount of new commercial and multifamily construction this year ranks only third across the nation, trailing only greater New York and the Dallas metro area. Both of those cities actually received a double-digit decline in the past year. So, from more perspective, atlanta's construction is booming, while the other cities in these nations are declining, especially the other top two cities. So to help make sense of this.
Speaker 4:I reached out to a friend in the note and she was able to Share some light on this trend and its implications for the foreseeable future. Enter dr Deirdre Oakley, a prominent figure in the field of urban housing dynamics in Atlanta, whom I met 16 years ago when I was involved in the project on the demolition of the born home projects in West side Atlanta. So when I called her to discuss this, to my great fortune she obliged. A Professor at Georgia State University, she is known for expertise and contributions in sociology, particularly focused on urban development, housing and influences of social structures on human behavior. She is also a friend. But before we get into matters, what exactly is a sociologist? It was a cold Saturday, windy afternoon with dr Oakland.
Speaker 1:I linked in front of a lean draft house at Atlanta West Ends Beltline so a sociologist is somebody who studies Society, and so we know that society has many different features in it. So we're not studying so much like psychology what's going on in people's brains and how they behave, but we're more looking at Society from a structural point of view. And then how does the structure, the social structure, effect how people behave, how they live? You could talk about social determinants of health Also, inequality is a huge thing.
Speaker 4:There's like studying the bones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that. But then what it does to the people? Right, and we know we live in a very unequal society, right. So, and race? Well, race probably in almost every country is a Big issue when you talk about inequality.
Speaker 4:Do you find that a lot of people tend to try to diminish the role of like Sociology sociologists in examining things?
Speaker 1:well, I mean, I think that a lot of times people don't know what sociology is they. They assume you're studying people, so they, they assume you're studying how people behave, and that's true, but it's in a broader context, right?
Speaker 4:is with and you can't. It's not in a vacuum.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 4:This brings us to our first segment. The math ain't mathin and the number we have today zero, zero. That is the number of counties in the 13 counties that make up metro Atlanta that qualifies as an affordable housing market per the Federal Reserve. Using data that considers factors such as meeting household income, cost of living and home prices, the feds found not one county Gornette, fulton, dekalb, none of them to be within a reach for his residence. But yet people keep moving here and housing domiciles keep going up. Atlanta, a city celebrated for its rich history, vibrant culture and the cost of living, is at a crossroads. The charm that once made it an appealing destination is now overshadowed by an alarming trend the city is slipping out of reach for its residents. This isn't just a matter of statistics. It's about the lives of people who call Atlanta home.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the word affordable you have to be really careful with, because affordability can be defined in many, many different ways. When, for instance, the Housing Authority, which is now Atlanta Housing it's run by different people who I think are much better say that would say we have more affordable housing now than we ever have before, they're not defining affordability. So when you look at affordability, you can look at it in terms of the area, medium income, and maybe when they're talking about more affordable housing than they've ever had, they're talking about 80% of the medium income, which puts you at probably civil service type level. Well, it doesn't really put you below the 50% level, which are people who are living at the poverty line or below. So you have to ask what you mean by affordability.
Speaker 1:Now, the way the feds measure it, they probably measure it in different ways in terms of different groups. We know that in Atlanta that the city is certainly not affordable for people below the 50% In the poverty line. Some of them get help from Atlanta Housing and from other low income housing groups to get subsidized housing, but there's huge waiting lists and so that population has never fully been taken care of. But now the way, the affordability crisis which many people are talking about. The Atlanta Metro area is not affordable for teachers.
Speaker 4:Right For working professionals.
Speaker 1:Working professionals Working class.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because a lot of people associate affordability with, like you know, the poor. How does it affect, like a middle class family or even a lower upper class family?
Speaker 1:Well, okay. So if you look at what's being built around here in the city proper, but seeping into the suburbs, as Dan Emmergluk's book Red Hot City talks about, Red Hot City.
Speaker 4:An immersive and data driven read published in 2022 by Dan Emmergluk, professor of Urban Studies at Georgia State, takes a critical look at Atlanta's urban housing crisis, particularly how gentrification and speculative real estate practices feel inequality and displacement. Emmergluk takes special note to point out how policy decisions made by city leaders have laid the landmine for this currently going on in Atlanta. One particular eyebrow raising point he writes on is how the city has excessively catered to capital in the form of enormous tax subsidies received by owners of multi-million dollar properties. Pun City Market, for example, known by old Atlanta as City Hall East, is a renowned tourist location and a pretty good time. Emmergluk's assertion is that Pun City Market's valuation by the Fortin County Assessor is far lower than its actual market value and that this has been an issue all over Atlanta regarding under assessment of commercial properties. Because of an eight year tax freeze granted by the city, he claims Pun City Market is paying only a tenth of what it should be paying, costing the city a ton of lost dollars and tax revenue.
Speaker 4:This book is a must read for anyone interested in understanding and addressing the challenges of the Atlanta housing crisis. It's also a cautionary tale for other cities in the US. I reached out to Emmergluk to have him for this episode, but due to prior commitments he was not available. I want to point out that I read this the other day and this made my eyes buckle. The median price for housing in Atlanta has doubled over the last ten years. The suburbs one of the fastest growing regions in the nation, atlanta suburbs has seen median home prices grow 43% in the last three years, while median income only grew 1.7%. 43%, 1.7% that's a huge deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very, very wide gap and it means that people middle class people really can't. It's very hard for them to move. I'll give you an example. I live in Avondale Estates, not too far from the Atlanta city limits and very, very close to Decatur, and this is a subdivision that's been around since the 1980s. It's townhouses and it's the only place at this point in Avondale Estates where you could actually purchase something under $300,000. Wow, so all of a sudden, this little subdivision that's been around since the 80s has become hot on the housing market because under $300,000, even for a townhome is considered affordable.
Speaker 1:What you see is that what's being built isn't being built for middle class or lower middle class or civil servants, definitely not for people who are very poor. It's being built for people who are high income and sometimes it's young people who are going into high income industries like tech. Tech is huge down here now and you make a lot of money, so it's not really targeting. Let's say, this housing that's being built now is not even targeting middle class people like me. I'm a professor and I surely don't make tons of money, but I would be squarely within the middle class. There's no way I could buy anything my husband and I. There's absolutely no way. And what that happens with middle. If you're considered middle class, you see your property values going up but you really can't sell because then you'd be in what's called the equity gap, because you wouldn't be able to buy anything else. I think about paying $1,600 a month in a mortgage. And then I look at my grad students. I guess the hot place to move now is West Midtown.
Speaker 4:Why is that considered the hot place?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I really don't know, but I mean, these are young people and a lot of them pay more than I do.
Speaker 4:I guess the discretionary income thing is saying go young.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing is, if you're a graduate student or an undergraduate, I don't know how they, if they're not living in campus housing which, incidentally, is really expensive, I don't know if their parents aren't helping them, I don't know how they get housing. I mean, it's just unbelievable and I never. When I was got here 16 years ago, we were in the middle of a bubble and there was all sorts of buildings going up and everything that went south as soon as the housing crash happened.
Speaker 4:Ah yes, the good days of 2008, when, as a journalist covering the Atlanta Hulks, I witnessed the most jacked I've ever seen Hulk fans as they took eventual champion Boston Celtics' the Surprising 7 Game opening round series. 2008, when Wookiee Matt Ryan from Boston College led the Falcons to a surprise playoff run in which they almost beat the eventual Super Bowl contenders Arizona Cardinals. And when 36 year old Chipper Jones became the oldest switch hitter to ever win a batting title. But also, and probably most importantly, this is when Barack Obama usurped Hillary Clinton to become Democratic nominee and route to a two term historic presidential run which inspired the aptly titled GZ album the Recession. But I think most notably, this is the year when everyone learned what a subprime mortgage was, many the hard way. You said something earlier that made me think so. What does Atlanta look like when it is made? What does Atlanta of only well-to-do people look like? For ever since its inception, it's been heavily populated by black people.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's still considered a black mecca, right? Well, it's a nine equal city, so it's considered a black mecca for educated middle class and working class too. Think about if you went to I don't know, I'm just trying to think Even New York City, boston. Definitely your UPS workers, your sanitation workers, your cable workers, your power gas they'd be white Even here. You know they're black and those are pretty good jobs, they pay pretty well. So I mean sanitation workers. It's physically harsh on your body but it's a decent wage. But they can't live in Atlanta.
Speaker 4:This brings us to our second segment, subtract the Noise, where we focus on debunking myths or addressing misconceptions about various topics relevant to the city. By subtracting the noise, the aim is to come out of this clenched up the rubbish that tends to pervade this topic in the public space. Today's topic is the black mecca. The melanin excellence and cultural flourishing of African Americans in Atlanta has been well documented the consecutive years of black mayoral leadership, the highest concentration of black owned businesses and millionaires, the largest concentration of black colleges and universities, as well as the largest number of black people in any metro area only after New York City. What's not as publicly noted is the level of poverty, especially among the children. According to a study by the Annie Casey Foundation, 80% of Atlanta's African American children live in communities with high concentrations of poverty. And there's this siren stat that's been floating around for years For every 100 black people born into poverty in Atlanta, only 4 come out of it in their lifetime.
Speaker 4:And of course, we cannot forget that this same city was dubbed the Citadel of the Klan and the Imperial City for its high level of anti-black or white supremacist activity. Within and around the city we have Stone Mountain, a park created for the explicit glorification of white supremacy and, by effect, slavery and black subjugation. It is the largest Confederate monument in the world. It is the symbolic shrine and rebirthplace of the Kukas clan and, to add further insult, according to an Atlanta Journal Constitution report a few years back, atlanta has the most Confederate symbols of any city in the nation. Savannah is second. As historian author Jeffrey Akbar puts it, within Atlanta resides the resilience of two ideals neo-Confederate politics and Afro self-determinism. If this is true, if Atlanta is a black mecca, can it also be deemed a black dystopia?
Speaker 1:The black mecca was catering towards the middle class, to the power brokers. Yes, there was an article in 71, I believe it was in Ebony, I forget the person's name who wrote it. It was a very famous article where they talk about Atlanta as the black mecca and they're basically at that point. They're talking about the working class in terms of construction and skilled I should say skilled, skilled working class, and it was a great article.
Speaker 4:The article Dr Oakley mentions did indeed come out in Ebony Magazine the August 1971 edition. It is entitled Atlanta, black Mecca of the South. It was written by renowned journalist Phil Gardlin, who was the first black person and female to earn tenure at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism. The article is a long-form journalistic piece on the burgeoning success of African Americans, just opposed with urgent problems and challenges, even in some cases violent, that threatens to thwart true progress. It's an excellent time capsule of Atlanta that leads a reminder that well, as French writer John Baptiste Alfonso Carr puts it, the more things change, the more they stay the same. The article link is posted in the show notes.
Speaker 4:So, atlanta, black mecca, a lot of black people being prosperous, well-to-do type. However, the leadership in Atlanta has been, as far as mayorally speaking, predominantly black, but yet the child poverty rate still remains like a month-high nation. Can you help deconstruct this whole myth about is it a class thing? Is it a race thing? Because Atlanta has a unique mixture of class, race oppression, so to speak. Can you help kind of demystify that?
Speaker 1:The leadership of the city. The leadership is black. But if you go back to 1989, when Clarence Stone came out with his book Regime Politics and it was all about Atlanta and it was all about how the coalitions between the black and the white power brokers came about, and I think what you're still seeing is some sort of form of that going on, which means that the leadership isn't really taking care of all the citizens in the city, and that includes many working class and low-income black residents who work. I mean this notion, this stupid notion that you know, oh, that's because they don't work. No, they're working these minimum wage jobs. They're dependent on public transit.
Speaker 1:I bumped into a lady when we had ride aids when they weren't ball greens, and she was a janitor at Morehouse and her car broke down and she didn't have enough money to fix it right away. So she was taking the bus and it was about seven o'clock at night and we were in line and I said so how do you get to Morehouse? And she describes this complicated two buses and a train and all that kind of stuff. And I said how long does it take you? Two hours. If you look at the history of Marta, there was sort of racial redlining that went on, that Gwinnett County didn't want the black riff-raff Moving after his rapidly. Yeah, now they're increasing the number of train lines and hopefully bus lines and, you know, hopefully connecting it with improved infrastructure like sidewalks, so you're not going to get hit by a car when you're walking to the bus and all of that kind of thing. So that actually is adjacent and very much related to the housing crisis.
Speaker 4:It was an absolute blast talking with a delightful doctor, deidre Oakley. She has always been gracious to me with her time, her kind attitude and extensive city knowledge. The dimensions of Atlanta housing affordability is not a concept to be fully grasped in one episode, though I do hope you will come away from this chat with a better understanding of the current dynamics and historical antecedents that preceded it. A city built for the enjoyment of some within a group doesn't qualify it to be dubbed as a Mecca for the whole group. While opportunity is plentiful for many in this forestry city, there are numerous factors, including cost of living and foreshadow alert public transportation that leaves swaths of city citizens hardworking citizens, standing at the gate with hopes deferred and full disclosure. I personally know some high ranking members of this current mayoral administration and I do see that they truly care and are working tirelessly to closing this gap and creating a more equitable city for those deserving and in need.
Speaker 2:That's T-A-G-A-T-L-A-N-T-A-F-O-R-M-U-L-A dot com. Follow us on social media at the Atlanta formula on Instagram and at Atlanta formula on X. Now let's get back to the show.
Speaker 4:And now we're at our next point, which is called divide and conquer, in which we take some of these issues of affordability and these ways of creatively addressing it, but forgive us some actionable steps so that we can lead forward and feel empowered, and not like a victim of this spending pit that is Atlanta, georgia. If there are names synonymous with community banking in the city of Atlanta, mr George Andrews must be included among them. For more than 10 years, andrews served as president and CEO of Capital City Bank and Trust Company, a black owned community bank in the southwest community of Atlanta. But they say that apples don't fall too far from the tree.
Speaker 4:And Mr Andrews' son is a heavy hit in the financial industry as well. And I reached out to him because, you know, he's one of the most sensible people I know when we talk about these things. But he also has a wealth of professional knowledge. And hey, why not reach out to your friends who know these things and you're trying to put a show together? So I did reach out to him and spoil alert, he said he'll do it for the homie, for which I'm very much appreciative. Y'all introducing Mr Trayman Andrews. I know for me, coming up, my grandparents were heavy in the theological space at ICC right, so biblical studies and church going was super commonplace for me, somebody like you whose father is a name around the city in the financial banking sphere. And how would you describe your relationship to money stewardship growing up? Was fiscal responsibility hammered in to you in your household, or was it like did you get your acumen through osmosis?
Speaker 5:No, I mean it was kind of embedded in me. To be honest, man, you know you kind of pick up on certain things when you get into of age or see how spending is done, whether it's from you know daily household things to things that you want as a kid growing up. You know it may not necessarily be a need but it may be a want. So I kind of figured who I wanted. You know who I needed to go to for certain things. You know, if it was anything kind of from a sports related, my dad would take care of it. But if I wanted something outside of that whether it was for, you know, trying to be fresh from a school standpoint or just getting stuff that I want, I would kind of go for it, go towards more of my mom yeah, he's doing that, right you?
Speaker 5:know man. You know the thing with my dad is he is a, you know, he's from Houston, georgia, man. So you know everything that we had. You know that I was coming up from, you know, from elementary school all the way through college. You know he looked at that as a luxury, you know, based on what he had, of not really having any indoor plumbing for quite a while while he was, you know, growing up. And when they moved to Atlanta it was kind of like you know them moving up to you know things that they had.
Speaker 5:But you know he just wanted to make sure that he was always financially responsible in regards to things that he had, things that he needed, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 5:He splurged on the right things and then, when I say the right things, he splurged on building wealth, you know, making sure that he stacked on increasing his assets, whether that was, you know, properties or investment property or foreign property that we have down at Houston, georgia, and kind of, you know, kind of, looking at it from that standpoint of you know this may not bring me cash value, but this is well from a balanced standpoint and, worst case scenario, it can definitely pass down from generation to generation.
Speaker 5:Or, you know, if I get into a scenario where I needed to sell, I always know I have some land that I can fall back on it and that'll build me out, if need be, those lessons, man, I kind of just observed. You know, being an observing kid growing up, I wanted to make sure that I was picking up on certain things and that was kind of like the main thing of making sure that anything that was given to us whether it was allowances or you know we're doing chores or just money that we got for Christmas I was always taught to save man and that was even that, was even developing that and starting to save and account when I was young and taking the money up to the bank and depositing it to my account, getting the receipts and kind of making sure I'm keeping track of that and all that so started at a young age, man for sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, man, and you know, you know full disclosure. I've known you for a long time. You've always been responsible and thinking about growing up. We grew up in the Swat, we grew up around children whose parents had means. We, you know, we knew people who came from. You know well-to-do people in Atlanta and I gotta say not everybody had that kind of responsibility like you. So I can, I can understand. I've seen that in you growing up, you know. So that's, that's how.
Speaker 4:I'm so excited. So help me understand a few things about affordability, especially as it pertains to housing. Real quick, what does a risky borrower look like now, with this economy?
Speaker 5:So let's talk about it from two years, man, any time. You know I'm a credit underwriter and what I do is kind of like analyze commercial loans also consumer loans and kind of see exactly what they are they able to handle, their current debt or any kind of potential that they're used to thinking about taking on, and I evaluate that and making sure that it's a great overall deal for the bank, whether that's approving the loan or giving my recommendation of a investor how we move forward with that. And so I want to look at it from two standpoints. From a commercial side, risky bars will always, or they will have like, especially in this economy, they're going to have less cash right now in their operating account. They're going to be heavily leveraged, meaning that they're going to have more debt than assets on that balance sheet right now.
Speaker 5:And then from a profit margin standpoint, profit margin is the amount by which revenue from sales exceed cost in the business. You know maybe would have been deteriorating over a certain period of time and because of that you know they're used to their sales being at a certain level that they're previously you know are at this particular time, but because where we are in the economy you know their cost of sales has been increasing, which impacts the overall profit margin. So from a commercial standpoint that kind of talks about everything that. From a retail standpoint and when I say retail I mean more so from a consumer or a individual standpoint, you know we would, we would consider a risky person. One would be who carries more debt and also using their credit cards like a personal loan, home economic credit more frequently than normal to maintain those cash flow gaps. And so you know things that you can see from a person who is being risky. You may seem like a slowing the payments or, you know a decrease in credit overall credit ratings or the credit reports and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:So so questions. So I read a report recently that said that private consumer debt, like credit card debt, is at an all time high. And mix that with these rising housing costs in Atlanta, I mean, what do you see from your end? That's a bad combination, right.
Speaker 5:It is. It's a very bad combination. I mean, I wish I could have the article handy, but I was reading something about a couple months ago and it stated that the same thing that you mentioned about the credit card debt being extremely high, meaning that people are allowing or relying on that a lot more than they have been in the past. And so when you don't have an increase in salaries but you also have an increase in interest rate in regards to what people are doing from a housing standpoint so that has increased Then you're dealing with from the. You're dealing from a grocery standpoint or a produce standpoint. The inflation has gone.
Speaker 5:The cost of buying, being able to buy groceries from that standpoint, that has increased, oh for sure. Yeah, all of these different things that have been increasing. But as far as people being able to make more income, what has that done? That stays stagnant. So again, you're going to have more people either looking for second job opportunities to increase their cash flow or increase their income coming in, but for more people you don't really have that. So what happens is people start relying on that actual credit card debt, which is why you see the increase in that from this standpoint. So it's tough to really balance it.
Speaker 5:We are in a time when, from an economic standpoint, things are going well but on the backing of things, a lot of people are really hurting, and they're hurting overall just because of what I just spoke about in regards to this. Income is not matching up with their expenses. There's a lot of a huge increase in their expenses overall, which people were accustomed to in the past because we had lower interest rate and things were a lot differently. But now we're in a time period to where their income is stayed at the same level, but their overhead and overall expenses, or day-to-day expenses, have increased tremendously, man, so it has definitely impacted, having a negative impact on people overall.
Speaker 4:Last thing before I let you go what advice or resources can you offer to Atlanta residents facing affordability challenges, particularly those seeking to buy homes or starting businesses in the area?
Speaker 5:So my advice would be to take advantage of every assistance program that may be out there. You have affordable housing programs, grants, first-time homebuyer grants, any kind of builders or developers that use any kind of HUD programs. Take advantage of that. I would say from a commercial side, I would definitely encourage SBA lending. Sba lending they have their rates are gonna be a little better than what banks can offer. Some and for a lot of times, depending on what bank that you look or that you're looking with. That bank is going to do a lot of partnerships with the SBA, meaning that the SBA will take on a certain percentage of the deal and the bank will take on a certain percentage of the deal. That way, the SBA they're able to offer you a lower interest rate over a longer period of time and the banks love to do that because that's less risk that we have to take on initially but we still get. We're still able to do the deal and take it over to some standpoint once it's time to refinance from the overall standpoint. So I would definitely do that, depending on what kind of industry that they're in as well.
Speaker 5:If you're dealing with agriculture, there's a program out there, a USDA lending, that really focuses on farming agriculture and I know that we're kind of in a situation now where individual companies are trying to take advantage of growing their own produce, especially with groceries being as high as they are right now, or just the overall produce that people really can't afford.
Speaker 5:You wanna make sure that you're able to eat more healthy than what you are and what you can afford, versus going to like a whole foods or a tray of joes or anything of that sort.
Speaker 5:So you have more people there actually doing their own thing, starting a garden or starting their farming business or anything of that sort.
Speaker 5:So that may be a program or a lending assistant program that could be tapped into as well from that standpoint.
Speaker 5:But the last thing I would say is that, for those individuals that are already into some things, I would really just try to see if there's any kind of financial relief out there that they could really kind of tap into, whether that's refinancing their debt through a SBA, which means that, yeah, your current interest rate that you may have right now may not be what you had five, six years ago and it may be time for you to renew that particular loan, which means that your interest rate is gonna increase because interest rate five years ago is not what they are today, and so with you refinancing your debt with that particular bank could have a huge negative impact on you, because now you're almost doubling your interest rate.
Speaker 5:Well, tapping into some of these affordable housing programs or those financial assistant programs that can give you a better interest rate or a longer period of to be able to pay your debt back over a longer period of time could really kind of help provide some financial relief which will overall be a benefit to that individual or the overall business, depending on what they're looking to do.
Speaker 4:Hey, man, appreciate that You've just given a wealth of information. Man, I've taken up way more time of yours than I told you I would for this segment, but hey, it was worth it. No problem, no problem, no problem. Hey, man, I can't wait to see you again. Man, love you, keep taking care of that family. And, man, I talk to you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5:I'll see you soon brother, yeah, same real connection. Man, I love you.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, yeah, that's good stuff right there. Shout out again to Tramon, shout out to the Andrews family. Keep doing your thing over there. And now it's the final portion of this first episode, in which we're gonna multiply the vibes I promised y'all earlier. We go in on a high note and here we are. We go talk about some vibes around the city to consider Some things to do, places to go, so that we don't all end up looking at Disaster's bank accounts in unison. Joining us is writer, author of the book she Shot Out the Moon, an autobiographical meditation guide. She is the creator of Journal with JC and when she travels and delivers guided journaling sessions. But more than that, she is a vibe, a vibe curator and a vibe creator. Introducing my god sister, ms Jeney Barlow If you had to choose one Atlanta hip hop artist to narrate your day to day life, who would it be and why?
Speaker 6:Oh, Okay, I'm gonna say for narration. I'm gonna say I think I'm gonna go with Andre.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Now why.
Speaker 6:Simply because, like he's just very poetic and I feel like him narrating would be very amazing and I think he will fit my vibe when it comes to that.
Speaker 4:If you could swap lives with an Atlanta pop culture icon for a day, who would it be and what would be the first thing you do? Future, future. What would you do?
Speaker 6:I would love to see the world in his lens. I could do that.
Speaker 4:Imagine hosting a karaoke night with Atlanta hip hop artists. Which song would you do it and with whom?
Speaker 6:Okay, I'm definitely doing to do it with Tony Wayne, because we know he'll be here to arm you. He does, he does. And we're gonna do. We can do an old school Monica song.
Speaker 4:Like for you, I will, and Angel Ma. Imagine who it would be with Angel Ma.
Speaker 6:My, that's 50.
Speaker 4:All right, all right, all right, yo, so listen Most of the vibes we'll get to Atlanta thing. So I wanna ask you, though, what is your favorite comfort food spot in Atlanta, and what do you order there?
Speaker 6:Okay, so one who would definitely be okay. It's kind of two like real comfort food, but it's outside of Atlanta. Blue Rose out in Douglasville, okay, best of food, like it's the best, but it's outside of the city. But I'm gonna say in the city Actually, tom Dickens Hanks, like I mean, and it's more barbecue, but like it's good, it's comforting.
Speaker 4:Which location the Main Street one or the Turnfield?
Speaker 6:I don't see the Main Street. Okay, that's my plan, yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, right on what listen on place event or person would you want to spotlight in Atlanta, and why?
Speaker 6:Oh, peter Street station. Either Peter Street station Okay, it's to the history station or our bar. Peter Street station is on Peter Street kind of by, like George will, mercedes being. It's like the stadiums off the North side.
Speaker 4:Is that the Maya Bailey?
Speaker 6:Okay, yeah, you got a art gallery. I used to do my journaling events there, and then I would say our bar on Edgewood, because it's like real like a Mix of everything in the city, real low kilo, but like they culture there, it's real dope and like how they all work together.
Speaker 4:They're not in trouble because you know he really got to stand there, but yeah yeah, I've been a both of those spots with you and I agree with the both of I'm affected. I need to go back to the Peter Street station because you know those books on the wall, if I. When I walked in there I saw. I saw his bookshelf and looked at you both. He was like yep, yep, I knew you like.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was my spot, all right. So we're talking about affordability. So I got like a few questions in. You know we'll get up out of him, all right. How has rising costs in Atlanta affected your ability or, you know, your community's ability, people around you, ability to host and participate in social gatherings and events?
Speaker 6:And, to be honest, like this is nothing's affordable. Let's start there like, oh, and it definitely changes a lot, because I feel like so many people have to work multiple jobs, like you can't just work one job and be fine in this economy. So like you have no work multiple jobs, which means you have less time to just chill and be with your people, and then you know also, you have less money to spare to just like Spurge and just thinking of like you can look at pandemic times, folks is out here bothering and you can just see a big difference Now in like what people are doing more often. So, yeah, I definitely feel like it's. It's a big, you know.
Speaker 4:It's noticeable, for sure.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's very noticeable, and then like, of course you can even go down to you know how much crime they say that we have in the city. Well, where do you think it's coming from? In my opinion, you know hmm, if people forward to have a good place to live, then what are the alternatives with you? What's the cause of the big?
Speaker 4:I mean, you know I mean let's, let's keep it a book. Even in the best of times, with things are affordable, there's gonna be a level of miscreants. You know crime is gonna happen. However, you know it doesn't help when. You know you don't need to give folks a reason, another reason to involve themselves in criminal activities, right, all right. So in what ways have you seen Atlanta's local businesses and venues adapt to maintain a vibrant social scene despite the growing affordability concerns?
Speaker 6:I Really feel like a lot of people have been dialing into the community more so Again, like during the pandemic, and I feel like it's been still going on. A lot of people have been pop-up and collab events and it's cool to see how many different businesses can work together and what they pull off. I've been to a few dope events with like blends of different companies and all black on businesses. So it's like when you don't have that money to just okay, buy out your own store, whatever, something like that then you have to rely on and work with other people, but it creates a, you know, better outcome Sometimes. So I feel like that's something with a lot of people been doing.
Speaker 4:That is dope. Anytime you get people working together Toward something constructive that they wouldn't have otherwise done, that that is pretty cool. You know that's not to say I would still rather things be more affordable.
Speaker 2:But that is, that's a good part about the lack of affordability forces.
Speaker 4:You know, Just people to. You know, combine resources and get creative right.
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 4:All right, I am a respect of time. Before we go, though, I want you to talk about journal with JC, because this is something that, and you know, admittedly, like I Write, you know, and lately I've been writing a lot more, but every time I sit by myself sitting down to journal, you know my, my clarity is higher, my well-being is higher, my ability to relate to others is better, simply just me having a relationship with that paper. And, you know, a pen, a pencil in my hand Talk about.
Speaker 4:JC and your journey journal with journey with that and um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6:Like I've always been a writer, I wasn't really big on verbally communicating, so that's how I started journaling. And then, when I got into College Against the college, I might have journaled a little bit more, but for sure, once I graduated and I was in a workforce and I really like I just needed something to keep me a little bit grounded. So I really started back writing. But it helps me to process things, to like keep things in order, also to remember things, because I'm not gonna lie my memory kind of bad, so like it helps me to reflect and then, like you said, to sit down and expressing yourself in different ways. So I started off really just doing my own thing when it came to journaling, and then I would share it a little bit on Instagram and people started to ask me what would I journal about and how do I journal, and so so I started, I started sharing tips and prompts and that went into me writing my book, which is she shot at the moon.
Speaker 6:I got it journal and then from there I've been teaching journaling classes, and the purpose of those is just to open people's mind up to other options when it comes to therapy, self-help and Just wellness as a whole. So not only do I incorporate journaling, I try to bring in different wellness practices, whether it's Having your skincare routine, drinking tea, doing yoga, whatever else it may be. But a lot of people don't know of all these different things that you can do to help yourself. So this is the purpose of it just to give people options and resources to help them on their life journey.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I love the fact that you just said there are so many things we can do to enhance our own well-being, like simple things such as you know, like we said generally, but breathing, knowing how to breathe, you know, because breathing is the one thing that's at the interface of our conscious and Unconscious, right, you can control your breathing, but you also breathe without you knowing it too, right. So, like there are things that we can do with our breath to you know, change our physiology, like to make us more alert or to calm us down, that you know it kind of goes untapped, especially in our community. You know we don't grow up like learning how to exhale and inhale, and you know and I'm not.
Speaker 6:I catch myself sometimes. I'm like I don't think I'm breathing properly, so like I try to like Really focus on my breathing, but like how much do you realize? I don't know, like how much throughout the day Are we not breathing properly?
Speaker 4:Right, I think that's a definitely a field that you know. That's right for me. Tapped into more. Lee, what's your name? Listen, thank you so much. And y'all, I gotta tell y'all the journal with your name, um event, so you did one for your birthday. I was, yeah, fortunate enough to be there. It was, it was pretty, it was transformative for me. In fact, I still have the paper in front of my mirror. Yeah, yeah, I do, and I look forward to your next one. And Again, you know, and you mentioned she shot the moon for disclosure. I was a part of help, know, edit the book and plan it out, and that was, that was Transforming for me as well. I'm proud of you, sister. You inspire me, even though you, you know, you're young and I mean, you've always been inspiring me and you know, keep doing your thing. I look forward to having you on this show many times that.
Speaker 6:Yes, thank you, and you know, I always appreciate you because we always had a base combos and you always, you know, give me that, that info, that knowledge that I need, because you're very, very wise and I appreciate that.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that. A lot of folks forwarding to me to get to this point, so you know it's Collective effort. All right, all right, listen, we got to go. I love you. See you soon, sister. Hi, holla, you all can reach in a at Jenae Shayen. That's our social media handle. J A N, a, e, c, he, y, e, n, n? E. In case you want to keep track of the spelling while you're driving on the road out there. I doubt you are, but I got to say that because that's obligatory. Yeah, dig, you can reach out on her website at wwwJenaeShayenStayerspellingcom.
Speaker 4:Fun fact Jenae's grandfather, the late great mr Willie Barlow, found at Barlow's barbershop at the corner of Cascade and Benjamin Elijah May's Drive. It is currently the longest continuously running black barbershop in Southwest Atlanta. Shout out to my godfather, mr Craig Barlow. Thank you all for taking this journey with me as we talk about this affordability crisis in Atlanta. Thanks, a special thanks to all of the guests on the show dr Jadra Oakley, jenae Barlow, tramming, andrews. Thank you all. Shout out to my sources of information the archives of AJC America's Black Capital by Jeffrey Akbar a great read and many other sources. They will be in the show notes. A special hat tip to Christian witherspoon, who was a producer of the documentary Monument the untold story of Stone Mountain. I look forward to having her own this show sooner than later.
Speaker 4:But as we leave y'all, I just want to put this out there. You can spend your money and you can spend your money foolish, but make sure that you spend it and get your return on investment. Some people invest in materials, some people invest in experiences. Whatever you do, make sure that when you wake up in the morning and look at that account you don't feel the least bit we be about it.
Speaker 4:And before we go, I'd be remiss if I did not give a special, a special Thank you to coach collective, jill and Jess. Appreciate y'all. You have led this rebrand and relaunch effort of the Atlanta formula and I'm looking forward to it made a ray. We ain't on the track for lacing this podcast with dope beats to step to. Yeah, thank you to all y'all. My brothers, I love you and y'all, hey, keep it moving, keep it pushing and be good to each other and, as always, do not be a hater. This is the Atlanta formula and that is a wreck for episode one you. This episode is dedicated to my grandmother, the late dr Melva Ruby Wilson cast.
