The Air We Breathe: Finding Well-Being That Works for You

E59. Dumping Sneaky Habits That Steal Our Peace with Registered Dietitian Julie Duffy Dillon

• Heather Sayers Lehman, MS, NBC-HWC, NASM-CPT, CSCS, CIEC, CWP • Season 2 • Episode 59

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What if the secret to a better self-image isn't in the mirror but in being kind to yourself?

Registered dietitian Julie Duffy Dillon joins me in untangling the messy world of body image and food.

As the host of "Find Your Food Voice," Julie helps people ditch diet culture and society's unrealistic expectations.

We dive deep into body checking, breaking down how to stop obsessing and start feeling good in our own skin.

From celebrity culture to social media, we explore how outside forces warp our view of beauty.

Healing body image isn't always easy; it involves discomfort, joy, and self-awareness.

We also talk about body image through life stages, from teenage angst to pre-menopausal confusion.

Spoiler: gratitude and body neutrality can be game changers.

We can reclaim our stories by recognizing the systems pushing unrealistic beauty standards.

Ultimately, it's all about creating spaces where everyone feels welcome, just as they are.

…..

Find Julie at JulieDuffyDillon.com and Find Your Food Voice Podcast.


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Speaker 1:

there's like this commonality we all share where we think like we're all doing it wrong and we're not. It's just that, like these systems are working against us to try to get us to, like, buy their products. Basically.

Speaker 2:

Hi and welcome to the Air we Breathe, finding wellbeing that works for you. I'm your host, heather Sayers-Layman. I'm a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and Certified Personal Trainer. I help you get organized and consistent with healthy habits, without rules, obsession or exhaustion. This podcast may contain talk about eating disorders and disordered eating. There could also be some adult language here. Choose wisely if those are problematic for you.

Speaker 2:

Hey, everyone, I really enjoyed recording this episode with Julie Duffy Dillon. She's a registered dietitian. She helps in a lot of different ways PCOS also, helping people have a healthy relationship with food, right up my alley. I wanted to chat with her about body image and, more specifically, talking about body checking. And if you're not familiar with what body checking is, you're not alone.

Speaker 2:

Basically, it is assessing and evaluating the size, feel, look of your body, and when we are body checking, it can be a lot of different things.

Speaker 2:

Just weighing yourself, measuring yourself, trying on the same clothes, standing in front of the mirror and it becomes pervasive, can become a bit time-consuming, but it's also a way that we end up making ourselves feel much worse.

Speaker 2:

And I wanted to talk about body checking because we know through the literature, when people body check, they feel worse about themselves. So when I'm trying to help someone have a healthier relationship with food in their body, body checking is something that we want to move away from and also I talk about this in the episode. But when you think about, like the little voice in your head, the voice that is telling you to assess and see how's your body today Is it good enough, is it not good enough, does it look better, does it look worse, that voice has nothing good to say. So it's basically just going to be let's pick out all the flaws and again, it's not a surprise that we feel much worse after that. So take a listen and I hope you pick up some hints on body checking and how to walk away from it and engage in some behaviors that you're much more likely to feel better about yourself Enjoy. Well, I'm very excited for this episode and today we have Julie Duffy Dillon, and why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, julie?

Speaker 1:

Sure, well, first of all, thank you, heather, for inviting me on your show. I really appreciate it, and so my name is Julie Duffy Dillon and I've been a registered dietitian for over 25 years and I help people with a complicated history with food to basically remove the burden and the shame that's been dumped on them by the diet industry so they can enjoy eating again and maybe explore topics like helping improve certain symptoms that they may be experiencing because of health issues, but also really just getting back to the place where they feel like they can eat for I don't know, eat a satisfying meal and feel okay about it, and I explore that through my writing and through speaking. But since we're talking on a podcast, I do have a podcast, find your Food Voice, where listeners write a letter to food and we help people sort through it and, yeah, do the same to help people to kind of remove that shame and blame that they may have for their complicated history with food.

Speaker 2:

Which is such a brilliant idea, because I feel like you know, for most people it is so complicated, but you know a lot of times haven't taken the time to really sit down and sort out. How do I feel Like where is this voice from? Or you? Know, and really dissect a lot of the pieces which must be fascinating for you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it is fascinating. You know, I do find it really interesting and something that I wish and I have a feeling you have experienced this too talking to people but, like you know, everyone has their own stories and their relationship with food and their body and their body image, but there are so many themes and patterns that come up from person to person that I often would say to people I wish you could kind of just be this fly on my wall for the rest of my client sessions today, because you would hear that all all these people are experiencing the same kind of shame and if you all are ashamed of this like behavior and you think you're the only one doing it, like you're not, like this is kind of like the most common theme that I hear, as I like really dive deep in people's like relationship with food, like there's like this commonality we all share where we think like we're all doing it wrong and we're not. It's just that like these systems are working against us to try to get us to like buy their products.

Speaker 2:

Basically, yeah, and they're working really well because everybody is out there sitting like I can't believe it's just me, like why am I such a failure? And which I love that point of view because I certainly share with people. I was trying to put them into play. Then all of these other things keep coming up. It's like you know, you're just peeling the onion for such a long time. And then people are like, should I be here right now?

Speaker 1:

And it's like, yeah, yeah, a lot of people are kind of crummy. Yeah, yeah, it does. It does feel bad. As you like, repair all of it. It can feel really bad and uncomfortable, which is the opposite, I think, of what people show on social media, like body liberation and body positivity and like I just feel so happy in my body now. Yeah, my clients are like, wait, am I doing it wrong? Like what? This can't be right. I'm like, no, this is right. Yeah, this is like repairing and healing and it feels kind of murky and, yeah, there's joy too, but it's all of it.

Speaker 2:

And well, I'm glad you brought that up, because I really wanted to talk about body image and body checking today, because I think that I mean, it's just so pervasive and it's so deeply rooted that I feel especially around like body image and I say this often. I was just talking in Portland, I was talking about taking weight out of corporate wellness programs and I actually brought up Lizzo because Lizzo had just made headlines because you know, she's on a new weight loss journey or whatever. That is 100% Lizzo's business. And of course, everybody has to jump in and like, oh, is she taking Ozempic? Like, oh, no, she's working hard.

Speaker 2:

And and I really explained, like you just have to understand that there is no win in any of this. You will never win because, okay, look, she lost weight. Well, I don't think she did it the right way. Like there is not a um, a place where you're ever going to be like, okay, and it's like, I don't know, I heard that she had a lot of smoothies. I don't think that's the right way to go. Like it's always, you know, there's always a problem, because you know you're not supposed to cross this finish line into having, you know, this ideal body and all of these circumstances, and but I think that's also the trick where people are not realizing that, they think that once they get here, then it'll be so much better.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's like body check and body image and the discussion of weight. I think so much of it is portrayed as this, like concrete final destination. Part of the seductive side of the diet industry is that it promises permanent weight loss. Sometimes it'll weave in, like if you try hard enough, like of course you have to try, but I roll my eyes because, of course, like the research research shows, it doesn't matter if you try or not. Like it's only going to last for so long for most people.

Speaker 1:

Um, and yeah, I think about with like body checking. It's basically like body image is this very fluid concept. It's not a permanent thing, and I can remember back in my training and, uh, I did grad degree in counseling and part of what I remember learning as I was like reading through body image research, was that our brain is usually about seven years behind, like the current reality, and so our bodies change, right, like they just change, and I'm 49. So, like my body's been through a lot of changes in the last seven years, just being in my 40s and it's if we're like told and sold that body size, the permanent, and also like how we access things and how we are going to be included or valuable. Of course we're going to want to have some like proof, some like receipts, guess of like, yes, okay, I'm okay right now, or oh, no, I'm not okay. So it makes sense that body checking is increasing because there's just more and more fixation on weight being the way to know if someone's valuable or not, even though we get sold this kind of wishy-washy. I say like, as like more people are challenging the weight-centric kind of paradigm. I think there's like more people trying to sell diets in a sneaky way, but still like we're still wanting that reassurance.

Speaker 1:

And when I hear the phrase body checking, that's what the first thing I think of is like, oh, the person's seeking reassurance, like that's what is needing in that moment and on some level that can be. Is my brain aware of my body in reality? Like, am I really the size or how? Something on the surface, like that. But when I hear the word reassurance, I also think of deeper things, like are you feeling worthy in the moment? Of deeper things like are you feeling worthy in the moment? Are you feeling valuable? Are you feeling seen and heard? Like it goes into a deeper level, right. So I think it has more meaning than just like making sure you look a certain way and taking a pose for, like, outfit check on social media. I think it's like it goes deeper, yeah, and so like, how are you experiencing your yourself and your worth in that moment?

Speaker 2:

And can you define body checking, just in case anybody is not familiar with what body checking is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and when I first like, when I hear body checking, I think of it kind of a clinically, in a clinical way, just because of my work in eating disorders as a dietician and behaviors that people will do to kind of measure and I say measure kind of loosely because sometimes it's just like using arms or pictures.

Speaker 1:

I say arms like using your certain I don't want to tell exact ways to do it, but like using your own unique ways of measuring things on your body to make sure they're like where you want them to be, or also reassurance through selfies and things like that to give feedback on things, your current body.

Speaker 1:

And it can be a behavior again. When I would work with clients in the throes of an eating disorder where visually I could tell by how they were touching their body that they were doing constant body checking, Like their brains neurons were firing constantly of like I don't know if I'm okay right now, so let me check Probably had some connections to obsessive, compulsive kind of trends you know and doing checking in that way. But then with the how are we've moved into like this normalization of doing fit checks and before and after pictures and doing some things with like selfies just online, Like body checking, has also gone into that area, instead of just like even posting what a person currently looks like. So I don't know if you have anything you would fill in on that definition, but that's what I think of for it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I, you know, absolutely agree to it's changed. I mean, when I did my thesis on eating disorders I was a mid nineties, so it's been so much. Yeah, a wild ride, because I do have like proof that we took selfies in college, but it was just a backward picture. That would then be really yes.

Speaker 1:

I remember doing that, yeah, and you'd spent money to get them developed and be like, oh, what did I do college? But it was just a backward picture that would then be really blame. Yes, I remember doing that Too close, and you'd spend money to get them developed and be like oh, what did I do?

Speaker 2:

Seemed like a good idea, but it didn't. When I think of body checking too, I think of you know the, you know the behaviors of like you know weighing a lot and measuring, of like you know weighing a lot and measuring, and you know, I feel like Oprah gave a template with her, like these jeans that she her come play jeans.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I was going to mention that, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Like this is it? I have done it because I can wear these jeans and I definitely think you know, especially for myself, like the feel like you were talking about. You can tell when people are body checking and you know, just like you know how does my shoulder feel, how does my stomach feel and when I think of those behaviors. You know, it's definitely just an assessment, just like. Definitely just an assessment. Just like let me size myself up here and that it's never like a good voice. That's like you know what, Julie? Well, let's just say we're going to assess everything, we'll probably get an A plus and then we'll just move on about our day and like that voice is not designed to give A pluses, it's designed to be, like it's not permanent.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, is not designed to give A pluses. It's designed to be like it's not permanent. Yeah, oopsie, like Ooh, what's going on here? Or um you know like oh, this number is off. Or even my dad is like um belt loop guy.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Well, because, you know, my stepmom had an operation and he couldn't hike as much and he was on the next belt loop and which, for me, I'm like okay bodies change they do.

Speaker 1:

They just change Right. I'm so glad you mentioned too about Oprah with, like, the jeans or the pants that she was using as our measurement, because I think we're all taught in some way how to body check as a normal thing using pants or some kind of like tailored clothes, especially as more people are shining a light on BMI and how horrible it is and how it's rooted in some really crappy things. So maybe we shouldn't be using body mass index anymore. And if we're moving away from weight too, how are we going to know the health status? By looking at someone and I'm like, yes, because you're not supposed to be able to, because we can't, but that's something that has been around for a long time, I'm sure before the 90s, but I can remember in the 90s too, also being taught like, oh, you don't need to weigh yourself.

Speaker 1:

No-transcript about your dad, like just, our bodies are going to change and this is not something that everybody likes to hear. But one thing we know in like lifespan research is that it's normal and natural and important for our body weight to gain as we get older until we hit around 70. Because as we hit 70, that's when our body usually then is like metabolically slowing even more down and our body like survives off. That you know. And so until you're around 70 years old, it's normal and natural and important to gain weight and there's going to be times where it's more and there's going to be times when it's slower. But yeah, that's what is supposed to happen. Our body is supposed to change. I always think if we're lucky enough to stay alive, then your body's going to change, so just expect it. And what if our world actually taught people this from the beginning, like, yeah, no, you're 30 years old, you're not going to be wearing your high school pants anymore. Those aren't yours anymore. That's just not typical to do that. And why would you force yourself?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Do you feel like the do it yourself approach to improving your healthy habits does nothing except feel overwhelming, guilt inducing and defeating? You don't need more rules, influencers or structured programs. Let me help you discover what you want, what works for you and how to maintain healthy habits during the ever-changing circumstances of your life. If you're ready to create systems that stick head to heathersayerslaymancom backslash health dash coaching and click, let's do it Like. When I think about puberty, I don't think't think well, especially there are places that are like no sex education. Now I think like maybe for it I just said no sex education.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I live in one of those states, yeah, I don't agree with it but as you learn what is going to happen to your body in puberty, like for a woman, like your breasts might get larger. You're going to get taller.

Speaker 2:

You'll probably fill out a little bit, and I definitely don't remember that ever as a topic, but it's also been so problematic, and that's where many eating disorder behaviors start, because, like younger girls are like oh my gosh, like you know, I'm getting bigger, and then the same thing of like, okay, well then, when you go through pre-menopause, your body will change as well. You kind of keep weight in a different area because I feel like that fight, that I hear people of the constant disappointment and constantly being upset because it's like you know, my waist is so much thicker now or I've got like more weight in my belly, and it's like that's the deal, though, like that's what happens.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's that that's normal and important, like that's just part of your like genetic experience. And also, as I said, I was like I really don't it's not my business to know, but like why a person's body weight changes, but it just we just know it will, right, and if you have access to, like your biological family tree and you look at people in your family and how their bodies have changed over time, if you could kind of sum all those up in some averages, that's probably what's going to happen to you. You know, and I wish that wasn't I know for some people that are like I don't want that but like I wish we were all okay with that. And, as I say that there are many people that I've met not necessarily clients, but people I've met where they love that their belly looks like their grandmother's belly or you know, like there's like, even though it may be culturally, it may be shunned, but having that connection to someone that they found so beautiful and that loved them so much kind of outshines it, you know, and what a great strength like.

Speaker 1:

And again, if you have access to your family tree, like we could all have that like ability to be like. Oh, this is just how I'm going to be looking in different times in my life and let me just take care of my body. You know, like eat in the way that feels good and move in a way that suits me and my body will just take care of itself. Like, because the checking like you mentioned earlier, the way that our brain has been trained to respond to any kind of check, you know, body check is not favorable. It's like that's just culturally, not how we're taught to do it. And again, like our body image is fluid, like it's not this finite, exact experience of like, yes, I have a great body today. It's just like it doesn't work like that and it's going to be always changing and it may not be in the current reality anyway. So it's kind of futile to do that, to have these like body checks. It's not, I would say for most of the time it's going to just lead to some really negative things.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I think that when I look at like you were talking about, like here's the body positive person, like I'm doing great, I'm doing amazing, and then you know body neutrality is like kind of is is what it is, and body avoidance of like I just try not to check, be a mirror, be a weight or whatever, and just like let my body do its thing. When you're trying to help someone find a way that is going to work for them, you know for that, how do you go about helping them find a fit for their mindset around?

Speaker 1:

it Like maybe something that is something that's going to promote healing, like helping someone to figure out, like where they can find their kind of peace with it. Sometimes it is exploring other people in their family and like what their bodies look like. So if they're wanting to be able to predict a little bit more and get that reassurance. But outside of that, you know so much of healing. How we relate to our body, I think is coming to a place more often where you can be in your body in the present moment and find a way to not necessarily be joyful, but like to be neutral, like you were saying, or to experience something that feels like a gratitude or hey, thanks for beating heart. I haven't been able to have enough yet to eat today. Thanks for keep on going. You know, having a place where you can be grateful for some part of it and for a lot of people I think we're trained to get you brought up like stomach size and how our culturally we're kind of like we should have this kind of smaller stomach and especially as we age, that's just not going to happen for most people. And so starting with body image in a place that maybe feels more neutral, like I have some clients will like look at their hands or feel their heart beating, doing something that maybe is more accessible because it doesn't have the same kind of connotation to it, and in the hands in particular. That's where I do this like guided meditation with people when I'm like first talking about their food voice and just kind of helping them define like how do they want to relate to food in their body and so much of the work. Like you and I do like we have our own experiences in our body and our own ways of experiencing body neutrality but, like everybody has their own like identities and experiences so they need to define their own right.

Speaker 1:

And as I take people through this kind of guided imagery to help them to figure that out, part of it is to looking at their hands and just trying to practice like neutrally observing and of course, I'm looking at mine right now and I have like age spots and hair and weird spots and I have psoriasis so I have bumps on my nails.

Speaker 1:

You know like just like noticing parts about your hands and trying to frame it as something that's like a neutral experience and for some clients they will start to connect like oh yeah, my hands look like my mom's hands and just noticing some things like that, but, as you practice, neutrally describing a body part that doesn't have as many kind of heavy, has much heaviness to it and then, like weight in our culture, finding ways to build it in other areas to and their body. So yeah, so that's some of the things that clients and I have practiced over the years to start to build, just like maybe some new neural pathways on, like body neutrality, and then maybe even carve out some spaces where they can experience some positive or grateful, gratitude or joy, however that looks for them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that, um, the being in your body versus looking at your body to seem, because that's certainly nothing. I mean, we grow up like literally objectifying everything because again there's a headline about it or it just seems like you know, I certainly grew up with the inquirer at the grocery store and the worst bodies and, oh my gosh, they have cellulite and taking perfectly normal body changes and then making them appalling. But I also try to think about when I see some of those pictures. A lot of them are on the beach and it's like this person is probably having a really fun time. They're literally on the beach, they're playing in the waves and for profit, then we've taken their fun and enjoyment and family vacation into like a shame fest.

Speaker 1:

Yes, those are so horrible. That is such a like early 2000s memory that you're describing like the beach pictures for celebrities and like trying so hard to like have the lighting hit a certain way, so like it would draw attention to anything that we would want to call a flaw. So horrible yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think then that becomes like, oh, is this what we're doing? And I really think, like it is so possible, because I think that you have to have so much awareness of the machine that we're all in that like, oh, like they're just trying to sell magazines. But then like again, this person, if we look at it from being in their body, like they're boogie boarding or you know, they're just really enjoying walking on the sand to help people feel safe to do those things, because I know certainly my background in fitness, like a lot of people are like you know, I don't really want to go into the gym and I used to. Well, among many things that I used to say that were problematic, like, like nobody's really paying attention to you, they're paying attention to themselves, which is true sometimes and it's not true other times.

Speaker 2:

So a lot of the things that I used to, I guess, be more dismissive about, like no, there might be people paying attention to you, you know.

Speaker 1:

you just have to be able to deal with that in whatever way that you can to make sure you still feel like you belong in that space and that it's just so fabulous because it is like and how many people are not aware that we're, we are in this like system, this culture that is teaching us and demanding to us like we have to conform in order to be either seen or not seen, depending on what we want in that moment, or like those people who maybe also are like um, watched at the gym, um, maybe, uh, this machine is also saying, well, we will keep you safe, you know, cause I know for some people, their body size is to a point where they don't feel safe, you know, or they don't, they're not able to access a lot of safety. So, yeah, like being aware that we are in this culture that hasn't even been able to name that it's basically teaching us all to have an eating disorder and most people aren't aware of that. So, whenever I hear my own like brain click in some negative or some kind of um maybe draw for body checking, one of the first things I like try to do is like Ooh, ooh, that's happening right now. Isn't it Like? Ooh, that's me feeling?

Speaker 1:

The, the systems, like the oppressive systems that are trying to either get me to belong or feel safe, or whatever it may be in that moment. I think I know for me and for a lot of people. That's a way to kind of click back into place of like, oh wait, remember who I am and they don't get a chance to control me you know, and naming that just yeah helps me to stay in the present instead of getting sucked all into that to the machine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think that when I certainly look at it and now you know, certainly this year has, like, brought new things on display because certainly as a woman, you know, you've obviously got to look a certain way, you got to keep it tight, you got to watch your weight. But now even like part of the narrative. It's like, well, like a real good woman actually has kids and is married, like adding to this further narrative that there is no win for you.

Speaker 2:

This is all designed to keep you spinning in your head, keep you small. Because also, then we watch what happens when a woman is running for president. Well, we call her by her first name, we don't call her by her last name. And then we have to talk about certainly you'll say Kamala Harris fits in to the box of okay, she's got a quote, unquote, normal average body or whatever. But heaven help her if she doesn't. Or she's dumpy or frumpy, yes, yes, but it comes from so many, because then she's annoying or she's crazy or whatever. And I think her laughs too annoying or too loud.

Speaker 1:

We can't live with this. It's so. It's so obvious, isn't it? It's like so obvious, especially when you name, like all these other systems. Like it's so obvious when it happens, and I just wish everyone could see it, because if you can see it, then you don't. You can choose whether or not to do it, you know, and then also like all that shame and blame that we have on our shoulders, like we can remove it.

Speaker 1:

It's like not ours you know, it's this like world, with all these things that are pressuring us to like get rid of our cats and have more babies. Yeah, whatever, obviously.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think too like, because in just remembering like, and certainly like you're not crazy or you're not like, feeling like, is this weird? Like it's a hundred percent oppression, like this is if and especially, I think too like especially when white men are saying it so loud that it's like the goal is to keep you quiet and keep you small and you're not competing for a man's job, you're not out here, you know whatever, live in your life like happy being outside of this, you know heteronormative ideal of being married and having a family and then hopefully taking a lesser role. So, again, you're not competing against some guy's entitled lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

Yeah you can get all hysterical and no one thinks is that big of a deal, but then any woman or like not white, straight man, like in any way getting emotional about something is like we're just weirdos. Then Something I always think about is that in the 90s I remember being told that like feminists were these like angry, ugly, hairy women yeah, hairy, what the hell.

Speaker 1:

What an insult and then I saw that, as I like kind of like evolved in my own like thinking, I was like, oh yeah, like there's a reason why we're angry, you know, and it's not just like just anger, it's all the emotions that we're, all humans, are going to have, but also like there's a lot to be angry about. And I can remember a particular client that I wrote about in my book. Her name is Tracy and she I remember like talking about she had spent like middle school and part of high school, um, in the throes of her eating disorder, and so, as she was like recovering, she was like I just am so mad that like I didn't get to experience all these fun things. And then she really didn't make a lot of friends in high school because she was worried. Instead of like going out for pizza, she was like worried about eating the pizza. So she just didn't make a lot of friends in high school because she was worried. Instead of like going out for pizza, she was like worried about eating the pizza. So she just didn't go. So she didn't make a lot of friends.

Speaker 1:

So, as she was recovering and rebuilding, um, she was talking about this anger, and I mentioned something about feminism. Like in feminist theory, we talk about like sometimes, um, naming what's happening. It kind of helps, um, to take the blame off yourself and to put the anchor where it needs to go. And she was like I'm not a feminist, they kill the vibe. And I was like, yeah, back in my day we called that Debbie Downers.

Speaker 1:

But I was like there's a reason, right, there's a reason why it's killing the vibe. It's because it's already dead, it's already. There's already so much to be mad about. And I can remember her staring at me for five minutes and then she was like, oh, I get it. I'm like welcome, but also I'm sorry. But also, yeah, there's a lot and I think we talked about this earlier there's a lot to be like sad about in this process, because I think when we are doing the body checking and reassuring ourselves, it keeps it on a surface and it keeps us from feeling some of the deep, dark things, but also like the really joyful, amazing things too that are underneath.

Speaker 1:

And so when you kind of like let it all out, you let it all out and so there's a lot of anger for a lot of us who are not socialized to know what to do with it, and if you find yourself body checking, that may be a way to know. Like, oh, I may be angry about something.

Speaker 1:

And honestly, that's what clients and I would end up finding out is like if they were like doing something with their like their body to check where something was, to get reassurance. It was like their literal tell to be like oh, there's an emotion that wants to come out right now and my body's trying to protect me from that, that I don't need to be protected from it, I'm going to be okay, I can feel it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's such a perfect point because I a lot of those pieces of I feel unsure or I do not like what I'm feeling. I'm going to go weigh myself or I'm going to you know, do some measurements, try on something Um.

Speaker 2:

and I think certainly in my history I would. I really started to tune in when I was whatever worried in whatever way about my weight Cause. I used to like a lot of like cause I wake up anyway at two or three in the morning and then it used to be a lot about that. And you know, luckily I've got other topics I can think about at 2 o'clock, 3 in the morning. But it became more obvious to me of what is really going on.

Speaker 2:

This is such a safe topic to perseverate on, because everybody worries about their weight and their body, so have at it. But absolutely. Are you worried about something in your relationship, or finances, or somebody sick, like what? What's the real problem here?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and like, let yourself have a pause to be able to discern, yeah, what is actually up.

Speaker 2:

And I think some of it too, it can be actually up and I think some of it too it can be. You know, I present and I go speak places. So I think, when my body was larger in a very real way, like I was worried. Like can I still talk about wellness if I'm a woman, especially talking about wellness? Yes, yeah. So then it's like oh well, now I'm just pinging myself with self doubt you know, but what if I wore this black dress or no?

Speaker 2:

you know what we'll do? You know the pearls? You know just trying to instead of, you know, really sitting with the fact that I feel very insecure that people are going to be judging my size, which they do and they will because like oh, you shouldn't be able to talk about that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but the body is the credibility source. Yeah, and just feeling like, okay, like you're going to have to sort this out with yourself, of, like there isn't anybody on this topic that I know who has talked about this as much, like I'm perfectly qualified to go and talk about this and, um, you know, if there's 10 people that are like she's a little big, maybe there's one person that's like, finally, like somebody that you know looks like me as talking about.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that's why it's so important to have that diversity of every kind. I mean, I feel like in every space, but especially in healthcare discussions, food discussions, body size, eating disorders. Having different types of people yeah, because it makes it safer for other people, like you were just describing and, yeah, makes the actual interventions then for different people if there's different people, making them right. So it's all the same type of person. Yeah, dietitians, it's so sad, but like that's one of the things that I found out right away is like I remember like going to like a job interview before we had cell phones and they're like, oh, I'll meet you in this lobby. They're like it's kind of busy, but I'll find you. And I'm like, well, how are you going to know what's me? They're like, oh, all dietitians look alike. And I was like, well, I learned, yeah, I'm like, I'm skinny and white. So like, yeah, it was. And a woman. So like it was. It was pretty obvious it was me. But like, what about my colleagues who are not those things you know?

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, yikes, so yeah, so if we want to like, sum up, because I, I guess, first went to help people create the awareness that body checking is not a mental, mentally healthy activity. So I think, just you know, being aware of, like, oh, this habit, hobby of mine, and that's that's what I tell myself, and I say the same thing If I start, nothing good comes from this, yeah, nothing, yeah, you're not going to feel. You're not gonna feel because you know, now you know I'm 53 and you've got the ag things and the. When did the skin start doing this? Yeah, there's more to check.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's like more things on the list.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah exactly to be like. No, we're not.

Speaker 1:

No yeah, I think we both like we wish that nobody was body checking, but like, obviously we're all taught to do this. But also, if you're doing it, we I don't know I like I hope that someone doesn't feel ashamed of it but instead realizes that like it's serving a purpose and, wow, I wonder what it's doing and there could be some really interesting things underneath it that you may find, help you to go in the direction you want to go in life, just by becoming aware of it, you know, and what it's trying to cover up.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think too, like it's probably just helpful also to be like well, do I feel better after doing this?

Speaker 1:

And what?

Speaker 2:

is that like one time out of a hundred that you're, I think you're meeting the mark, but for the most part, yeah, it is yeah. Information about what you are not pleased with.

Speaker 1:

Yeah maybe like the the second, when someone is like checking, but then like five seconds later it feels bad again. So, like what is the the long term impact of body checking? No, it's not leading you anywhere. You want to go, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it is. It's just such an important topic and I you know now that you know the truth is not always the truth and reality is not always the reality. And then people certainly are learning, like, okay, how do I be a person Like, oh, it looks like I worry about this and it looks like I worry about that, but that people can start intervening with themselves, Because I think it's obviously always awareness, and then trying new behaviors to say like, Ooh, is this the kind thing to do, Is this, you know what? I recommend this for a friend, Right?

Speaker 1:

Always a great gauge, right yeah.

Speaker 2:

I would say get that scale out and just hop on and off all day long Like in no world would I recommend that. And 100% I have been guilty of recommending because I haven't been a scale person for a very long time. And 100% like when you're talking about jeans, like that's always my cringe because I used to tell clients that you know you don't have to weigh yourself, but denim doesn't lie clients that you don't have to weigh yourself but denim doesn't lie. Unquote. Oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

I have some things in my past too that I really regret saying, but the apology is long We've got to be forgiving. Yes, the apology is very long, especially because we lived through the 90s.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure, so Well, why don't you share with everybody where they can find you? I know you've got a book coming up, so that's super exciting.

Speaker 1:

It is super exciting. Thank you, I'm super excited about it. But, yeah, you can find me on my podcast, find your Food Voice, but that's also the name of the book and it's for anybody who may be body checking and really figuring out. For, like what Heather said yeah, that it's like nothing good is coming from this. So what do I do next? How do you help your relationship with food to feel like fun again? So that book comes out in March and you can find information on that and everything else I do at julietaffydilloncom.

Speaker 2:

Awesome, Well, I appreciate you being here and, um, certainly, I think it's, it's always, because obviously you know my friends are all about my age and you know, like growing up through all the same things, and and that's when and then I look at like Gen Z or Gen Alpha and I'm like, oh my gosh, like seeing the inquirer in passing at a grocery store is one thing, but having like a mini computer in your hand that is 24, seven nonstop pushing these narratives, is horrifying to think about.

Speaker 1:

I agree, I agree, yeah, we need so many more conversations like this.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you for being here. It was very nice getting to know you a little bit better, thank you. Thank you for having me All right. Take care, as always. Please follow show, or you can leave a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. That would be fun to see in the next episode.