The Business of College Consulting
The Business of College Consulting
Ibrahim Firat: IECA President and Chief Educational Consultant at Firat Education
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In this podcast episode, Brooke interviews Ibrahim Firat, owner of Firat Education and current president of IECA. Ibrahim discusses how he started a part-time tutoring business and expanded it into a full-time educational consulting practice. He emphasizes the importance of association membership, hiring, and how your role morphs as a business owner when you expand. They also touch on marketing strategies and the challenges of business growth. Ibrahim shares valuable advice for consultants, including adapting to varying regulations, valuing your services, and prioritizing health and family.
Welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke Daly, founder and CEO of Advantage College Planning and Advantage College Planning. Franchising, building and growing a business is not for the faint of heart. In this podcast, you'll hear incredible stories from successful college consultants about growing a thriving business. They'll share the secrets behind their remarkable growth and the trials and triumphs shaping their path to success. Welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, Brooke Daly, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Ibrahim Farat, owner of Farat Education and the current president of IECA. Welcome, ibrahim.
Speaker 2:Thanks, barak, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks so much for being here. So I was just mentioning to you that I've known you for quite a while, especially with your position at IECA, but I don't know your story, so I would love to hear how did you get into educational consulting? How did you start your business? Share a little bit about that growth story.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. It's interesting because many people ask me whether I started out as a college consultant, college counselor or maybe a school counselor and then got into this, which is one of the pathways, right? But I always tell people this is my first career, so Farat Education was literally my first real job. I mean, I've had part-time jobs here and there and, fun fact, one of my very first part-time jobs is a DJing job, so I've had it since I was about 14 years old, so it's my first entrepreneurial venture. But then my real full-time job is Farat Education and I founded it back in 2008 during my master's degree, almost finishing up the master's degree.
Speaker 2:But prior to that I was working for another independent educational consultant as a part-time reader and an SAT tutor, and during that time is when I learned about the business and how this is done and how it's a market that is growing, and I absolutely enjoyed working with students. I didn't have to work with the parents during that time. Of course, that was another challenge and something else I learned later down the road, but I loved working with students. I loved seeing them accomplish their goals and getting into college.
Speaker 2:Most importantly, I was a testing nerd back when I was a student. So I was an international student, applied to colleges here in the States taking the TOEFL test, the SAT and ACT. I aced all of those tests and I kind of knew the needy-gritty details and I applied them in that part-time job and that's what really inspired me to start my business. But I did get that push from my wife, josephine, who pretty much said you can do this on your own and I'll support you. And here's this $80 that I'm going to invest in your business to get your first business cards in April of 2008. And that's how it started. I was balking at that $80 to begin with, but we still have that receipt. It's kind of served as the memoir.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, best $80 ever spent with. Josephine, I love that, I love that, and sometimes it takes a partner to push you a little bit along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned that you were a DJ before. Do you come from an entrepreneurial background, like were your parents entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my dad is a retired chief of police in Turkey, but he also got a degree in law and he started his law firm as soon as he retired from the police force. So I've grown up like him, like running his law firm and hiring and dealing with cases on his own and dealing with all the issues that comes from being an entrepreneur. And then when I decided to come to the United States for college, absolutely my mom like they all supported me and then my DJing job kind of came into play when I was in college because I had to make some side hustle, side money and that's when I started it and then that was the launch of my entrepreneurial kind of journey.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. So when you bought those business cards, or Josephine bought the business cards, did you start your business full-time from that point?
Speaker 2:I mean, was that yeah, it wasn't really I wouldn't say full-time. I had maybe three students that I was working with on the SAT prep and then they loved working with me and they said you know what I think we're gonna? You were gonna need some help on the essays as well, like for college applications. So that's how I started working with those three students back in 2008, but it was absolutely part time. Now that I look back, it felt felt like a part time, but when I looked at it from that those days it felt like full-time, because I mean, there was so much work involved. Like I was wearing many hats, you know, at the same time I was doing accounting, scheduling, taking notes and researching and all of that. Like the three students did feel full-time. Obviously, josephine was there as the administrator Business head and then I did the all the educational work. So it did feel full-time. I wouldn't say part-time at all.
Speaker 1:Yes, right, exactly, exactly. That's awesome. So, in that business growth phase, what were your biggest?
Speaker 2:struggles. So I think I realized the need to hire People almost in year one. So I was tutoring in the verbal side of things and I was really good at the essays. My major in college was history, so I mean, writing was my thing on reading and you know grammar. All of that was great.
Speaker 2:But when it came to math and sciences, I just simply cannot, so and could not, and I immediately looked to some of our network, you know, and Started looking for other tutors who could help me in this journey. And in fact, josephine's cousin, ronald he's joined in as our math and science teacher like as early as 2008 and he he jumped on board, he took some of those clients away and then worked on those those pieces, and then that that that was the time that really allowed me to free up some time for me to look at the business from a bigger picture. So do I really want to be a tutor or do I really want to do something else with this business? Because it was. It was challenging. We were getting clients who are getting students left and right. That's great, but is this really it or is there another way to go? So that's when I started to do some research and looked into the big Long-term goals of a student. So we looked at the life cycle of a student, essentially so, because we were catching them during those sophomore to maybe junior, end of junior years and all we did was testing and maybe college essays. We're like, okay, how can we take that little timeline and stretch it out in a life cycle?
Speaker 2:So that's when I looked at the end goal college admissions or graduate school admissions or a career and started looking at associations and organizations, conferences that I could go to and learn how to do this correctly. So that's when, actually, I ran into IUCA and my very, very first conference was back in 2009, and I still remember it to this day. I was in awe. I was and I paid the conference fee. I came back, I said, you know, I dropped like tens of thousands of dollars for undergraduate degree and for graduate school, and then here I paid, like what? Five hundred dollars for a conference and I just got more than I did in the eight years I spent on my education. Wait a minute, sorry, that was yeah. That was. Something is not right, but something I'm like I hit the jackpot. So this is it. This is how I'm gonna grow my business, so that's when it really started to take off.
Speaker 1:I love that. So you mentioned the that transition of hiring people to tutor. So at that point, did you continue to work with a client base and, like, what did that look like with? Like, as you said, you wear many hats and I think that that's a normal struggle for a small business owner is how much do I dedicate myself to serving clients and then how much do I dedicate myself to growing the business? Like, talk to me about how you managed all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would say from the first hire all the way through maybe 2012 or so, I would say it is the first four years of our business I was pretty much full-time working with clients. Every client that came through for education had to meet with me for a consultation. So meaning like meeting with the family or, as a whole, meeting the student and then, even if I don't get to work on everything with that student, at least I assigned the right person to to have them work with them, and One of the you know products or services I would definitely service, whether as the consultant or maybe college list building or maybe the SAT verbal, so whatever it was. So I would say the first four years I was very involved in that process.
Speaker 2:Even you know, back then you know the 2012 fish I can say we were. We already had like five, six people on on board, including an admin person who was running like day-to-day things. But even then I didn't want to let go some of the value proposition like, or one of the biggest value proposition, where we look at the life cycle of a student as a whole and start with the end in mind, and it felt like I was that person that people looked up to and I just didn't want them to feel like I'm abandoning them and that was that. Yeah, and I still do. I still meet with the students as much as I possibly can, unless you know they come to one of our. You know other associates or senior associates, but, yeah, so I tried to still meet to this day, like 2023, almost all of them. I.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine what your schedule looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, only the consultation part, that I definitely meet with them, but then they're probably gone to another consultant or a tutor for sure, right?
Speaker 1:That makes sense. That makes sense. That's great. Wow, you had mentioned that. Now your team is bigger, obviously, than it once was. You started out by hiring tutors and then did I understand you correctly that you grew by hiring more tutors initially? When did you hire Admin?
Speaker 2:Help. The Admin Help came in 2009. When I went to the IECA conference, one of the sessions I attended was exactly talking about that. If you want to grow your business, you cannot do it all. You need to dump all the I guess, not unnecessary but excessive work essential but excessive for you. That was a big message I got from the IECA conference back in 2009, and I came back home and I talked to Josephine and I said look, we've got to hire an admin person, even if that means I need to work extra with my students to pay for that person. I will do that and that was the best decision I made. The tutor hiring happened first. Admin person came next, and then we intentionally started looking into adding consultant growth, like actually consultants who would work with our students on college admissions, graduate school admissions, school admissions as well, which is all the way from pre-K through 12th grade. So we started adding those pieces. 2012 was a turning point, so we started really kicking up a notch in 2012.
Speaker 1:My goodness. So can you talk a little bit about what your admin initially, what that job role was and what that person was doing? Because that's a question I get a lot Like oh I want to hire an administrative person, but I don't know what to offload. Can you talk a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so because of the times. I guess right back in 2009, there was no like Calendly or Google Calendar or even like as easy as scheduling and getting things done. So one of the big tasks that this admin person took over was the scheduling piece. Scheduling was huge because we get consulting as well as tutoring. They had to manage all of that and most more often than not, the same student had multiple services or products with us, so they had to deal with multiple consultants or people to work with. So that was a big load that the admin person took over. The second piece is we're very big on communication with our families, so whatever session notes or conversations that needed to happen on a daily basis, this admin person kind of routed them through from an early, early days. Now, of course, I mean today, like we have all automated systems that send notes to clients. But yeah, those were two big pieces for our admin person.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, wow. And so now, obviously, you still do the tutoring and educational consulting. What do you think you are if you don't mind sharing what's your split Like? How much of your business is tutoring versus educational consulting?
Speaker 2:So I would say, if you asked me this question, maybe before COVID, probably I would say 65, 35 on the testing side, testing and tutoring side. So now we're more about 50-50. And you would think it's maybe test optional movement, more maybe something else. Test optional movement has some to do with it, but not much Like with our clientele. There's no such thing as test optional. I mean, you may know this. Like they say it's optional, we're going to do it Right. So we don't have that split because of that. We actually did the intentional shifting of educational consulting, or we invested more marketing dollars, branding dollars and also staff dollars into promoting our educational consulting, Because one we have created a pipeline all the way from pre-K school admissions to college admissions and then to graduate school admissions. So we're actually seeing clients coming back as they move through different schooling systems and years. So that's what really changed. The percentage for educational consulting. Now it's about 50-50.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that in our industry is that we don't have a lot of repeat clients because not many people have products to serve clients at different stages like you do. So kudos to you for identifying those needs and filling it. One of the things that we did I guess it's been a couple of years now is we started doing a package for eighth graders transitioning to high school and it is for a defined period of time so that they are our first true repeat customer other than siblings. So that felt better for me, because a lot of people have complete or comprehensive packages that are covering all four years, and to me it's the liability, like what keeps you up at night, the fact that we have hundreds of students on a comprehensive plan who are freshmen, sophomore, and it's like what do we do if?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but what?
Speaker 1:happens if something happens to a consultant, or so it just it feels, I guess, a little bit less risky in my mind that we have them in their own package and then they can transition into a comprehensive.
Speaker 2:So I agree, and the comprehensive thing has been a conversation for me and my internal team, as well as mentees that I work with through IECA. So they always ask me that question when they first start their practices. They're like, should I do comprehensive or should I do hourly? And then I always go back to my dad's example. I mean he has a law firm and I've seen him work not in a comprehensive way. I mean he charges by the hour and, yes, he has hours packages like 10 hour package, 20 hour package, and then the hours get deducted as he does the work. And that's how we've worked since day one, since 2008. And we will continue to do so and we will not change to a comprehensive. And that's because there are abusers, of course, and there's also under users that we feel like we're not really giving what we can to them because they're not utilizing it. So I think either way, comprehensive just didn't feel right for us and we feel like if it's hourly, we give them what it's worth and they get what is worth as well.
Speaker 1:Right, no, that makes perfect sense and that is always a question, right, especially with consultants. Do I charge hourly or do I do a package, and what are the parameters? So thank you for sharing that. Can you talk a little bit about how you marketed yourself in the early years and how that might be different to how you market yourself now? I know a lot of consultants will say, and when I went to my first conference I didn't have a client and a lot of people said, oh, word of mouth. And I'm like, yeah, but I need a mouth. I need one mouth, maybe that will work, but I don't have one. So we know word of mouth works really well, but can you share any other strategies that you used?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm going to age myself again. So thanks for that question. And I say that because 15 years ago things were different and I really don't feel that old. But then when you come up with a question like that, it does make me feel old and it's interesting. It's interesting because the business world has shifted so much over 15 years and I think that's what keeps us young. At the same time, ironically, because we have to adapt to it.
Speaker 2:So I think it was 2009. We were getting clients over clients because of word of mouth. Sure, one mouth will do it, and it did. But then I realized OK, it's the same kind of student coming to me and there's nothing wrong with that, because that means we're doing well and it makes our job easier because it is the same kind of student. But at the same time, if we want to grow, we want our name to be spread a little bit.
Speaker 2:So what we did is for some private schools in the Houston area who we never received a student from. We called them up and we said look, we are for education, we do all of these services and would love to introduce ourselves to you guys and we want to support your school and your mission. So we reached out and we said, ok, can we support your booster club, can we sponsor a basketball game? And then we just set up a table and a booth and then we just give us some information. And then we had a local newspaper here and I don't think they any longer exist, to be honest and we said we're going to advertise in them and then maybe write it up at Article.
Speaker 2:So we started with those very targeted neighborhood specific or school specific marketing efforts and, my god, the basketball and football games and soccer games we sponsored had amazing results, like we had probably. Like in one basketball game we had six students sign up for our practice testing that then eventually they became clients and we only needed one to pay for the sponsorship. So we got six. So we are huge on returneurial investment. Because of my business background and entrepreneurial background, I'm like, oh my gosh, ok, so this work, let's do it again, like for another school. So we did that. Our names start to get out. Of course, these new people also start talking, and now it's not just one or two schools we're getting students from, we're getting from multiple zip codes, and Houston is a big city, so even farther away. People started driving from really far away to just come and meet with us.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. Good for you. Good for you. I was going to ask if it's part of your strategy always wearing branded clothing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes exactly.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:So that was intentional too. We actually started wearing these as early as those sports games, because we're like look, we're hosting a sports game, we have to look athletic ourselves and that's what really draw attention.
Speaker 1:I love that. I actually was just at a business growth conference and one of the business owners has 250 locations I mean a huge brand that a lot of people have heard of and he said I don't leave my house unless I have something branded on. So, I've got my New Year's resolution is a new wardrobe with my brand.
Speaker 2:There you go. That's awesome. I mean we have our branded sweaters or t-shirts in our cars, in our back bags, whenever we need to take it out and put it on. You never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when you're going to the grocery store or you're at Target absolutely you never know. You never know Absolutely. Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing, of course. So it sounds like you had business growth early and there were not a lot of struggles, but I have a feeling that there was something along the way. Can?
Speaker 2:you share, of course. Can you be smooth, right? Yeah, it's never smooth. I mean I teach business growth at Bapsen and at Houston Community College. Here People think it's like a straight line. It's like zigzag, zigzag. Maybe the curve is straight, ok great. But by the time you hit that curve it takes years and a lot of struggle, then cries.
Speaker 2:But if you think about it, the biggest struggle we had was when we decided to grow with a multi-consultant model. Multi-consultant model that looked at different states, and I mean we're based out of Texas. So we made it the, I guess, mistake of assuming that you know what, if we hired the consultant in X state, y state, z state is going to be exactly like Texas, is not going to be a problem. And well. So that we learned at the hard way very soon, from year one, when the employment taxes and different rules and regulations and income tax brackets and levels that we had to deal with, we started to pull out our hairs and retry our accountant and said you've got to help us clean this up because this is getting messy. So and notice it has nothing to do with clients success or doing a great job with our business, but we're doing great there, but it's all the all the bureaucratic and political things we have to deal with to run a business that hurt us.
Speaker 2:It was a struggle and it also frustrated our consultants in those states. So that was yeah, that was, that was a learning experience. But we quickly fixed all the little issues that we experienced there and then everything was fine. But the first couple of years when we went to multi-consult model in different states we really had to adjust. That was, I would say it was the biggest struggle we had.
Speaker 1:Yes, wow, that is a struggle. Totally get that, and you're right, it has nothing to do with working with students, right? It's always something like accounting or legal, or yeah, if you looking back on your business growth, are there any decisions you made that you wish you could go back and change?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I think I would rethink the multi-consultant model in different states and I say that because this all happened before COVID and before Zoom and before all the international reach via online means. If we had waited a little bit more, I think the model we have right now we are more multi-consultant model at home, at our home base in Houston, and we have a few different consultants in different states, but we strategically picked them and we placed them there. I think we would have had this model today back then and we would have more intentionally grew without much pain. But was that a mistake?
Speaker 2:I never look back and say I made a mistake. I rather learned. That's how I look at it. I learned something out of it and it made me quickly adjust and then get back on the playing field. And that's how I look at it. That's how Josephine looks at it and she's really our business brains here. I do most of the educational pieces and then, of course, she and I conversate and decide and our husband and wife fights are usually over business and never personal, so we talk about these things all the time.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love it Same here, by the way. I work obviously, well, not obviously, but my husband is very much a part of our business. So, yeah, any argument we have always about business, never personal.
Speaker 2:You see eye to eye on that, that's fun. Definitely.
Speaker 1:So can you tell me, do you primarily work with students in person over Zoom, is it 5050 split?
Speaker 2:No, no, so we have an office here in Houston. But I would say, since COVID, it's more like 30, 70, 30% in person and then about 70% online. But even pre COVID we were, we had intentionally gone to the 5050 zone, simply because, you know, we had multi consultants in different states and you know we were trying to reach their clients and their clients needed to tutor with our home office. You know tutors as well, so we had a lot of online presence anyway. So the one regret like you asked that question one regret I had is probably not buying Zoom shares in 2016, when we were using Zoom back then, when it wasn't hot. I wish I got it. I wish I did.
Speaker 1:Right, but I mean, if we only had a crystal ball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:So you had mentioned the mentor program with IECA. Were you yourself a mentee? Did you have a mentor? I?
Speaker 2:did not have a official mentee, but I would say I was very close with one consultant and Ross back, who was past president, past treasure of IECA. It kind of like she was always there for me during every conference and every educational event on IECA and I felt like she kind of unofficially mentored me along the way. And what's funny is when you look at my leadership positions at IECA, I followed her footsteps, like she went from you know college person, the committees and then treasurer, a finance committee treasurer and then president. So I did the same exact path without any intention, like I didn't mean to, but it just happened.
Speaker 1:It just happened and Anne's fabulous. I can see why you follow in her footsteps. That's awesome, and so you're now a mentor for IECA. Can you share with me maybe three things that you consistently recommend to your mentees, or challenges that they have that you feel are across the board, that you help with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've had over 12 mentees, I think, over the last few years and I still talk to every one of them like once in a while, like we chat and I try to catch them at conferences. So cool, such a cool feeling. I mean some of them are now what? Five, six years in business, some of them as old as like 12 years. So it's really, really cool. But one consistent message I always gave them is never, ever on their sell yourself, so they.
Speaker 2:When you start a new business you I had a service business especially you have to put money on your brain, on your knowledge. It's the hardest thing to do. If the industry average says 150 an hour, then the oftentimes the new business owners they say you know what, I'll start with 100. And then let's see where we go from there. And my question is why, if the industry average is 150, why are you 100? Like this is not, you're not buying a shirt at Walmart. I mean, this is something else. So you've got to. You've got to like look at all the value that you provide for your kids, for your families. Like the feedback that you will get from some families is as serious as you just saved my marriage or you saved my relationship with my daughter or with my son. I mean, when you cannot put a price to that, you cannot give them a discount on that.
Speaker 2:So I've that's been my number one messaging since my very first mentee, and you know what. They all came, came around to it at some point, like some of them listened to it right away. Some of them said you were right, I just didn't listen to you. But it's okay, like you just got to sometimes experience that. So get your money's worth. Essentially has been my number one messaging. And number two messaging is get admin help very, very quickly. So you know oftentimes, like scheduling, you know taking notes or accounting, bookkeeping, you know whatever it is that you need to take off your plate because you're really good at what you do but you hate the marketing side or the operation side. Get an admin person part time and then just get it off your plate. So two tips, that's been pretty consistent.
Speaker 1:Fantastic advice. I love both of those. I was just listening to a podcast with Adam Grant you know, pretty popular author and Andrew Huberman, and one of the topics that they were talking about is potential in people, and so it actually made me think about business and starting a business, because I think a lot of business success is not just like what you know, but obviously how you implement it and how much confidence you have coming into it. And I think imposter syndrome so you're talking about even charging what you're worth is such a thing in our industry and I think a lot of people struggle with that. Then they were, so they were talking about human potential, but then really how success is dependent upon motivation and opportunity. I was like that is so true, Like you have to be the smartest person, you have to be motivated enough to fill a need.
Speaker 1:So can you talk to me a little bit about, like, maybe, motivation in general? Like, have you ever? Of course you were. It's 15 years, right, you're celebrating, yeah, 15. Yeah, so across that growth time, have you ever lacked motivation? Or like, what keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think this is the advantage of having a good partner in business with you, and that partner if it's your you know spouse, of course that makes life easier. So we often do this where we have a weekend getaway just the two of us. You know, it could be as simple as just going, you know, going out, like you know, to Galveston like, which is like 30 minutes from Houston, and then you know we just stay like, have dinner, have some drinks, and it's funny because we're trying to let's see them off right, like we want to kind of forget about business, forget about everything, but literally, like 30 minutes later, we start talking about business again, but instead of in the business, we're on the business together, and this is huge because we're in a setting that is completely neutral and comfortable and personal, even romantic probably. But you know what? That? That's perfect because now we're talking about business without the stresses of everyday life.
Speaker 2:So this, this reminds me of that one old proverb that says if you want to go fast, you got to slow down. And that's how, that's how I look at our life, like as a kind of like motivation, inspiration. How do we find it? We slow down, intentionally slow down, and it's. I learned this from a entrepreneurial podcast. I forgot the guy's name, but he said clarity breaks, taking clarity breaks on a regular basis by yourself or with your partner or with your team department heads, whatever, whoever you have and just have fun stuff, like you don't have to talk about business but at some point get on the business. That's why oftentimes you hear these companies go on to company retreats and you know kind of like have team building activities, because it is clarity break and I would say our biggest inspiration and motivation to recharge is happening during those times when we're intentionally slowing down.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's amazing and I think I like. I love the idea of getting out of your normal space because I think you think more creatively and you just mix things up when you're not in your same office or home or you know, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and some of our most creative ideas are actually coming when we're at the beach just drinking more greatest. It's the funny thing. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that I'm going to. I want to end us on that note, but before I officially end us, I would love to ask you is there anything, any questions that I didn't ask, that you would like to answer, or any final thoughts? Words of wisdom for new consultants starting their business.
Speaker 2:I mean I think you asked everything. You know that I would ask you to say something like this. But one you know piece of advice is is that, for new consultants especially, you know you feel like you will feel like you have to do it all, but there's only 24 hours in a day, seven days in a week and you have to have a life. So I mean this is huge.
Speaker 2:If you don't have your health physical and mental health and if you don't have your family, you can have all the businesses you want, all the millions of dollars you want, they will mean nothing. So you have to first take care of your family, take care of your health, and then you can say you know what? What can I do that I really want to do and do them, what can I do that I don't really want to do, that I can delegate, fire somebody, hack them out, do it. And then what can I do that I really wouldn't spend money on it and wouldn't do it, wouldn't hire anybody. Then don't do them at all and don't hire anybody to do it either. So those are the three things I would say.
Speaker 1:And just go with that. Abraham, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for your time, Great advice and thanks, you know. Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts on business growth, mentoring, all of the things.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Abraham. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of the business of college consulting. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did enjoy it, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with a friend in the college consulting industry. I'll see you next week on our new episode. In the meantime, take care.