The Business of College Consulting
The Business of College Consulting
The Impact of Giving 200% with Joan Koven
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Joan Koven, culinary connoisseur turned college consultant, dishes out her recipe for success, from her bold leap into a new field to her savvy networking that seasoned her burgeoning career.
In the heart of our discussion, Joan shares her innovative hiring practices, switching from Craigslist to Indeed to concoct the perfect team. Plus, sneak a peek at how Joan's Italy-based assistant became an indispensable cog in their well-oiled machine and the rewarding journey of internal promotions.
To conclude we discuss balancing technology with tried-and-true method, we celebrate the nurturing relationships with parents, a cornerstone of the consulting process, and look at the power of professional development through involvement in professional associations
Joan's story is a testament to the passion and leadership that fuel the college consulting community, a beacon of inspiration for all striving for excellence in this field. Join us for a hearty serving of wisdom and wit from a leader who's truly worth following.
Welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke Daly, founder and CEO of Advantage College Planning and Advantage College Planning. Franchising, building and growing a business is not for the faint of heart. In this podcast, you'll hear incredible stories from successful college consultants about growing a thriving business. They'll share the secrets behind their remarkable growth and the trials and triumphs shaping their path to success. Hello everyone, welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke Daly, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Joan Coven, with Academic Access in the Philadelphia area. Joan, thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Brooke, I am thrilled to be here. I've been listening to your podcast since they started and I'm thrilled to be sitting in this seat today.
Speaker 1:Likewise. So let's go ahead and jump in and get started. I would love to know I think I saw that you started your business in 2003. Is that right? That's it In that timeframe?
Speaker 2:Okay, so sort of backing up a little. I always loved to cook, so after college I went to cooking school in Paris for a year and had a job when I returned with Bloomingdale's and their executive training program in New York City. So I thought I wanted to combine cooking and retail and maybe have some kind of store down the road. I worked for Bloomingdale's for a year and then after that moved to Creighton Barrel and I worked for them for 10 years and I was a store manager and traveled with Gordon Siegel, who's the president of the company, and we opened the stores in Texas and California and so that was super exciting. I managed the Harvard Square Store and had 75 people work for me, so started to have kids and pivot from there, and retail is just grueling to be in when you have little kids. So I moved to work for a marketing and promotion firm and we coordinated tie-ins for cereals like kick cereal on the back, weed arrange power ranger underwear to be synergistically on the back of their packaging.
Speaker 2:My husband's a professor and so we've been married for 41 years and we always love to visit colleges, and in about 2003, some of my colleagues were asking me to help with college lists and my husband was doing some essays for some relatives and friends and I said maybe we should hang a shingle, get a cute little store in Harvard with an awning. And he said, oh, you and your entrepreneurial ideas. And so it was my birthday that year and I said you know what? I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to do this. And so he thought I was absolutely nuts. But I knew, unless I took a big step, nothing would happen. So that summer I visited 39 schools. I drove from Maine to Charlotte, north Carolina, and visited schools. I went to Summer Training Institute. I flew out to Long Beach, california, not knowing a soul, and went to NACAC. So I knew if I was going to make this work, I had to just put it on turbo drive.
Speaker 1:You obviously jumped in with both feet. You're not looking in the rear view, you were looking straight ahead.
Speaker 2:And I didn't know. I didn't come from that kind of background. But what I learned I remember. I went to a New Jersey ACAC event for all new high school counselors and all new college counselors and I said I'm just going and I drove there. I was so nervous and I thought, oh my gosh, I don't know anything about this field. I left so confident because working for Crane Barrow, you're in marketing, You're telling stories, You've got to get the Merameco at the front door so they buy it. You have to look at resumes and read people's backgrounds who work for you. So there's a lot of overlap for what we do now. It might not have been, yes, in a college counseling office, but I think I have come with a lot of skills that could be definitely have translated well.
Speaker 1:So, coming from that completely different background, tell me about your first few clients. What was that like to take on an actual paying client and how confident were you? What were your struggles and challenges? Because I have a sense that you could sell them, you could get them in the door and you have that skill. But once you actually got them, what happened?
Speaker 2:So I was very lucky because I have three kids and they were sort of middle school, elementary school, very athletic. I was active in my synagogue, I was active in the school, so it was very easy to get a group together. So I remember I thought I'm going to get a psychologist here and I'm going to have like an evening talking about adolescent problems. I baked like you wouldn't believe Every kind of cakes and cookies and had Maltzider and thought I'm just going to sort of put on the ritz. So all of your talents were shining, Shining with five people here. I think I even bought some folding chairs just to accommodate the event.
Speaker 2:But all it takes is one, and one turns into two and two turns into four. So one of our friends who my daughter played field hockey with, she says, oh, I need some help with Meg's college applications. I'm like great, and she knew me, she knew us, and so she took the risk. And then she told someone else and a friend of mine told someone else. So everyone around you is a megaphone for what you do, and so every day you've got to tell someone what you do because people talk.
Speaker 1:That's so true. That's so true.
Speaker 2:So that was the beginning of having a few small little events. And then I had my four clients and I was happy and I had a steep learning curve. So that took time to be visiting 50 schools a year and I'm a serial conference goer, so going to all four to five conferences a year. And then I gained credibility. But day one I knew I wanted a team. So day one I hired essay specialists because I knew I would be good at that but it would kind of make my red tent a little more. Oh, we've got the specialist here helping my son or daughter.
Speaker 1:Yes, so tell me, how do you work with your essay specialists? What do they do versus what you do with each student? How do they come into the process?
Speaker 2:So my model is there's Joan and I deal with all the college lists, all the strategy, tactic meetings, all the little steps. Then I have an SA team. So I have 14 people on my SA team, lisa Carlton one's called. Oh you like those scrappy intellects, joan, I see from your website. I'm like I guess that's it. They still play anime. Some of them one rode their bike from Charleston, south Carolina, to Santa Monica. So I have all in their 30s and 40s funky, cool, interesting people.
Speaker 2:Because I wanted to add more life and more hands on, one-on-one student centered. My time is only finite, but if I spread the wings a little bit for more people, I remember when I was getting some work done in my kitchen I said to the contractor oh, you're going to do the tile. He said you don't want me to do the tile, you want a tile person to do the tile. I thought, yeah, right. So having a team of people that matches personalities and I'm really good at hiring so my background in retail really work with that. So I'm great at hiring, I'm great at training, I'm great at finding fun people. I would say most of my team has been with me seven to 10 years. I keep adding a couple people just to infuse new blood or bring in some different energy. But I think that's been a real strength of mine, sort of creating, because everybody gets a lot of attention in the essay portion of the applications.
Speaker 1:So can you share your best tips for employee retention or, if they're not employees, contractor retention? Why do you think they've stayed on with you for so long?
Speaker 2:I would say I really make it a nice place to work. So I overarch in last year. I send everybody a $100 gift card to DoorDash and we had an online holiday party and everybody got food and we had a little festive dinner together. Everybody gets a swell bottle when they join me. I have a lot of touches that surprise and delight and I really try to meet their needs and so it's a great gig. I mean, they can be a teacher, they can have other jobs, they can be a full-time mom, whatever they want, but they can work six hours a week working one-on-one with their students. So I have a lot of people because I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket, so some consultants have oh, I've got my two SA people. I would not sleep if I had two people and one of those said oh, I think I'm leaving. If someone said they're leaving, or two people said they're leaving, it would be seamless, no one would even have a hiccup and I just want to always have that built-in insurance policy.
Speaker 1:I love that, I love that. So where can people apply for your SA review specialist job, joan, because I'm ready to sign up.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're so sweet. You're so sweet. I used to be a big Craigslist person and so all my seven to 10 year people that have been with me you know Craigslist and I'm very good at reading resumes and applications but indeed has been amazing. So during Christmas it was, I think, december 20th and I'm like I hire a couple of people. I put an ad in. Within three days I had 680 applications. Wow, well, I don't know, I had an hour off. Someone didn't show, and so I thought, oh, I'm just going to re-up that ad. It cost me maybe what $32 or something.
Speaker 2:Within that hour, I was meeting with a family and my emails were going crazy. Within that hour I got 100 applications. So again, I interviewed 12 people out of those 680. They're down to six and what I do is they meet four people on my team, they meet me, four people on my team, and then everybody needs to write a college essay. So we act like we're hot shots. I mean, we are in our little cheek practice, but they're like oh, wow, that whole process was amazing. We met your assistant, who's in Italy. We met Josh, who has been here 10 years. So I gave them all different voices. They met people who have been with me for a year Because I wanted to be good fit for me and I want them to know what they're getting into.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that, joan. I love that, and it makes them feel pretty special when they are hired, because they had to jump through some hoops to get there. It wasn't an easy hiring process.
Speaker 2:And even our onboarding. I mean, we seem like bosses where we sort of have very long. What if your interests and hobbies and then we have them rate from one to five how good they are with Google Drive? Or have you ever used a son or a trello or this? We just want to get a sense of who they are, and that takes a while. We put together sort of our culture and our values. We want them to read all that. So recently I just had a 15-minute check-in. I'm all about the check-ins Because then they feel they're anchored to me and I'm like let's just have a 15-minute check-in. We talked about Valentine's Day and what they were doing, so it doesn't need to be pertinent conversations, but it's about we're in an industry of people and personalities and connections, and so that's exactly what I want people to say, like, oh my gosh, it's just everybody is so warm.
Speaker 1:Yes, it sounds like you've created an amazing culture. Joan, who knows to you? Because it takes work and I think you have to be I feel like an overused word but intentional about what you're trying to create, and it sounds like you were just that.
Speaker 2:And we're getting smarter every year and looking at our culture, our culture from two years ago has changed from this year. Sometimes I look at some of the things I did last year. I'm like wow, that's outdated. Or we do core values when we write the essays and we have a list of already core values and they have to pick eight of them. But I just updated it with sort of social justice or some things that are much more modern. And I think you need to. I tell a lot of people this. I have a board meeting with myself every December for about two weeks and I look at everything and say is this outdated, is this modern? Are we two steps ahead? Are people going to understand what we want from them? So all those taking stock are important.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. So you mentioned obviously you have essay specialists and you mentioned an assistant. What does your assistant do, or what is the role of assistant on your team? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:So I have also copy editors because I just like a lot of touches. So, my, you know, they work on an essay. They might do six drafts and then we have a copy editor, we have a couple copy editors. So just read to make sure there's no glaring mistakes. So when mom, grandma, you know, uncle Harry, reads the essay, they're not like what was on their mind, you know, don't they know the difference between there and there.
Speaker 2:So one of my copy editors I had for nine years and he was leaving like oh no. I said, do you have any recommendations? He said my sister-in-law would be very good. I said, really, tell me about your sister-in-law. And he said she was a pharmacist. She's now, you know, a mom at home. I'm like pharmacist. He said Joan, she reads a lot and she's super smart. So I'm like, yeah, getting into pharmacy school is very challenging.
Speaker 2:So I hired her as my copy editor and then when my assistant left, I said let me ask my team. I always start from within and I said anybody know, anybody that might be interested in you know, maybe 20 hours a week, 15 hours as an assistant, and I get a little email from her. She lives in Florence, italy, she's American met her, you know her true love. Over there lives there, has a, you know, six and an eight year old, and if you want to hire anyone, you hire a pharmacist. They are well oriented, you know. Just get the job done. And we.
Speaker 2:So your question was what do they do? I think she's just sees things very differently. So she can go through my emails. I have all different labels. Some it's like oh, when's my appointment, you know, and I can label it for her and she can get back to that. Some would be Joan with Stephanie, and then we talk about those new, new inquiries. I have certain labels and Zapier would kick in and send out the information, but she's always four steps ahead. You know we call her like a client success manager, taking care of our families, very high touch. We send out a lot of like rock star, you know snaps, you know way to go. And she, you know one of the things we do now when someone gets into a college, we put some stars next to their name in the color of the college that they get in.
Speaker 1:Very cool.
Speaker 2:I love that detail and doing the research. So you know kind of all the things of thinking how we can be more creative and, just you know, being very high touch, high service industry.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So anyone else on your team? You have an assistant, your copy editor and then essay specialist.
Speaker 2:First hire bookkeeper. So, you know, I decided like there is no way could I do essays? Absolutely, I'm very good with those, but I just I want to have more time. I remember my daughter, when I was, you know, years ago, saying oh my gosh, I just I'm up till 11 o'clock. She said mom, I'm just going to tell you one word. I'm like, what is that word? She said admin. I'm like admin. Ok, so that's when I decided on the assistant. But the bookkeeper was the first hire. So I just I didn't want to be spending time on QuickBooks and we meet for an hour every two weeks and just you paste, my people does all the you know, interfacing with the accountant. It's just, I want to be freed up to do what I love to do and I'm trying to find even more time to do the jewels of this profession that are important to me.
Speaker 1:I. That's such a great message, joan, and I think as you grow you know when you first start a business, I think it's important to be involved in all of the different aspects of running a business. But then, as you grow and your time becomes more and more valuable, you know you can help more students if you have people take care of things like bookkeeping right or being a copy editor or an essay specialist, so you're able to serve more students because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my, my, my family say they want four things from me. They want me to keep my finger on the pulse, they want me to be their rock, they want me to be the project manager and set the cadence and they want me to make things in small doses, you know sort of like just and I can't do that if I'm doing all the bookkeeping and, you know, just going to webinars and all those kinds of things and the things I enjoy doing.
Speaker 1:Right. So you were so successful in hiring a specialist and you clearly your background like in retail, you've had to hire. Tell me why you haven't added a college consultant to your team.
Speaker 2:Every year. I'm like this is going to be the year, this is going to be the year I come back from. You know all the different things that I go to and I said, well, this is the year. You know, I met with a business coach a year and a half ago and she's like you know, maybe you want to bring on someone because I certainly have the business that could sustain it.
Speaker 2:You know, I've gotten into a rut of like all my forms were like working with Joan, or my my website was working with Joan. I'm like get rid of that Joan, get rid of Joan, get rid of Joan. But you know, it's about finding the right person to work with. So it's not that I'm opposed to it. I also would love kind of that imaginary HR department, you know, because all the taxing things of bringing on a hire in the forms and how are you going to do that? I could do it, but I really don't want to think about that. I'd love to say, hello, hr. Could you just? You know, on board, bring them on, do all the negotiations, think about that. So that's a tall order.
Speaker 2:And you know, in thinking about some of the things that stress me out, some things in my industry recently now stress me out and I feel, joan, you need to stick to your knitting. So you know, if I go to business meetings and they talk about, oh, we're hiring three more people, or I have that, or this is my split, I get out of that. I'm like, joan, you're doing everything. Well, just stick to your knitting. Or I come back from a meeting, oh, I use Honeybrook and this and that new, and I'm not opposed to technology. But sometimes I feel like I'm not doing enough and I'm like, okay, just give yourself a butterfly hug. You're doing more than enough. You have a thriving business, but we've got to keep out the noise. And you know, sometimes I feel badly like, oh, I should be bringing on, you know, a couple of employees. I haven't, because it's labor intensive.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean, you're completely right, joan. One of the things I wanted to touch upon is the technology pieces and being overwhelmed by what's out there and then hearing other people using this and that and the other thing completely agree with you. But what I love about you is that you talked about your board meeting with yourself. I know because I've heard you talk about you. Do go and look at, okay, what are my systems, processes, how are they working? You are very deliberate in analyzing everything and seeing where you can be better. I think that that's really the important part. Who cares what else is out there, what is working well for you and not necessarily everyone else, because you can go down a rabbit hole and live there forever with all of the things. Thank you for bringing up that point.
Speaker 2:I think there's been a culture shift. There's a lot of wonderful, young, very tech savvy consultants. I've been doing this 20 years and sometimes I feel and I don't live under a rock I am very tech savvy and I want my kids to be tech savvy, but I don't want too many things that are going to just be more confusing. Sometimes I feel like, oh, maybe I ought to check this out and I do check it out, but then it works, it's not broken, let's just stick to what we're doing?
Speaker 1:Yes. Then, going back to your point about hiring and taking, I mean it does take time and diligence and, as you know, your role shifts. So you would not be able to work with as many students if you're growing a team of college consultants. There's also one thing that Chris Bell and I talked about in the IECA Business Forum was the cost of bringing on one or two consultants is pretty high versus the return on having a larger team. So you, almost in order to get your time and money back, you have to have a longer game of hiring more people Because, honestly, sometimes it costs you to bring on one person or two people. Maybe you're breaking even with that person and eventually you get to the point where, yes, there is some gross revenue there, or net revenue that you wouldn't have had otherwise, if you're just working with a client load, but it takes a while to replace your own income. Does that make sense? Yeah, completely.
Speaker 2:And also where I am. I like to take on things that I'm really good at Like I try things I'm not good at Like. I go to yoga I'm terrible at it Me too. Yeah, I continue to go. But I like to take on things, especially in the business, and not hiring, but just all the legalese and sole practitioner, this and that that I feel very confident with. And I'm really I'm very confident where I am, and anytime I sort of stick my toe, I'm like let me get a business consultant and think about moving in these directions. And then I sort of think like, whoa, where do I begin with all the notes I took from that?
Speaker 1:Right exactly. So tell me, it sounds like you had a really smooth transition getting into business. Where have there been bumps in the road or points in time when you questioned your decision or challenges that you may have had?
Speaker 2:I would say I never questioned it because I couldn't be any happier. You know, I was with my kids over the past weekend and I have three kids and my youngest is 30 and he said well, how's work going, mom? I'm like work is so good. He's like whoa, you know. He said why is it good? I said you know what, for this year I have a new motto and it's 200%.
Speaker 2:Every time I get on my Zoom, I give 200%. You know, last year I had some fatigue. You have the same meetings and it gets to resemble like, oh, how do I share my Zoom screen? Or oh, is my student portal Trello? And I'm just thinking, oh, no, and I over deliver the heck out of things now. And everybody gets off the meeting and a mother will email me and say, oh, oliver came just lying down the stairs. I've never seen him so happy and I'm like that's 200%.
Speaker 2:You know, and I really try. You know these kids in the post pandemic and technology they're not great with technology and sometimes you get frustrated or bored in your 60 minute session, but I'm like I am going to knock this one out of the park and it really has made a difference in just flipping switches and making small adjustments and not feeling. You know, we all have fatigue and some things that I have fatigue with I've off-boarded a little more, or I do more of this and you know the things that I'm just. I said I'm just going to make this meeting wonderful and that's what I. That's been my 2024.
Speaker 2:I also, you know, one of my inspirations is I do like to cook and Alison Roman is a. She was a New York Times food editor. I love her and I just found her cookbook and the cookbook is called Nothing Fancy. And that's my other motto the 200% and nothing fancy. And you know what we need to stick to our knitting and not do anything fancy, just do what we do. Well, and I think if everybody tries, you know nothing fancy and I'm going to get my team don't tell them, but I'm getting everybody nothing fancy as we launch our essays, you know, and just something fun, something fun.
Speaker 1:I love that message. I feel like we could end right there and that would be just like an amazing conclusion. However, I do want to ask you I'm thinking about parents. So on our team, the last two years, we've had a strong focus on building our parent relationships. We know how important relationships are with students, and sometimes I feel like mom and dad get a bad rap because they're the ones who are really stressed out, and so I know that that can be a potential struggle Even for you know, I'm just thinking newer consultants, experienced consultants. Tell me about your relationships with your parent clients, Like, how do you cultivate those? Is there anything you do to, you know, to make sure that you have a strong connection with mom and dad?
Speaker 2:But you're feeding right into my recent thoughts. I said to my assistant the other day I said things are going well, Like I just feel really balanced right now, and she said, Joan, we've got a whole row of dinghies tied up to the dock.
Speaker 2:And the waters are very turbulent but none of the dinghies are getting away and we keep our families very close to the vest. So a lot of communication, a lot of positive. If there's something we're not all flowers, and you know Valentine's, but if we want to be honest, then I'd say let's hop on a call. I want to share some things that I saw, but after every meeting, you know, snaps, rock star, and we mentioned some positive attributes that they, you know that we saw in their child.
Speaker 2:I'm reading a book now called Five Principles of Parenting and you're like well, joan, your parents, your kids, are like 30 to 36, but it applies so much to everything we do and I just you should read a book. It's an incredible. You know. They say finding islands of positivity and like oh, wow, yeah. So you know, I mentioned a couple little islands of things that they did really well, even if they couldn't even find the zoom to share or even if, you know, the meeting seemed very tedious. I find those things and we send an email afterwards and the parents like thank you so much. You know, but they're different little things that you know I get inspiration from all my cookbooks or parenting things or all different ways and finding those little nuggets. You know, the only thing we can control is our response. That's another thing I learned and I keep these little things on sticky notes just to say you know these are important things to pass on, right.
Speaker 1:I love that, joan. I will check out that book. Thank you, I love that. I love that and I'm glad to hear that you have the same kind of philosophy of keeping parents close, because I think that's so, it's so important and I the last thing I want is to make parents feel isolated or pushed out of the process, like I want them to feel involved in a healthy, in a healthy way.
Speaker 2:I would say a key that we do at the beginning. I'm very, very clear about when their meetings are and when the students' meetings are. Yes, you know just. I think I learned a lot of that from you too. It's when you gave presentations on like how to do college planner program or variety of things. You gotta have a lot of structure in there, and I think nowadays families love the structure that we have in place, because the kids need it.
Speaker 1:They do. They do for sure Lots yes for sure, exactly. Let's see, joan. So you know, knowing your marketing background, do you have any best practices or advice for new consultants in marketing your business as a new consultant or things that you would recommend they do or not do?
Speaker 2:You know, I know from you know I taught at Summer Institute for a very long time and we've got a lot of talented people and I always say hang your shingle, you don't need to wait, but go ahead. Because even for my team and when someone on my team says, oh, I'm brand new, this is my first meeting, I'm like, ah no, you have been, you have an MFA and you've written three books and maybe you're new in this seat, but we've got a lot of talent out there and maybe you didn't come from the exact, you know path or pipeline leading to college. But I'd say, you know hang, of course, you know doing all the training and doing all the things you need, but hanging your shingle and finding you know confidence, to feel that you're worth something you know. And also I'd say one of my things is we need to gain respect.
Speaker 2:We don't work 24 seven. We don't pick up the phone on a Saturday night when we're out to dinner. We don't. That was one of my. If I look back, you know you think you need to work all the time until you say, huh, is my doctor working now at seven am on a Sunday morning? Or you know, respond to every email quickly and I wish I could spread some. You know we demand more, no matter how long we've been in this industry.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. I think setting boundaries is so important, as you mentioned, for respect from the parents, you know, and students, and I think they get it Like if you're upfront with them and you say like here's the deal, here's how we're going to communicate together. They respect that and they appreciate it. You know, I think about industries like being a real estate agent, like that job you actually do have to be on 24 hours a day if you want to make a deal right, like that's a different animal. Luckily, we are in a very process oriented industry where you know, we know the milestones and the check marks and what you need to do and when, and it's not an emergency room or not selling houses Like everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 2:I didn't use the word vacation till three years ago. Wow, you know, I might be like, oh, I'm going to be out of the office, or oh, but I'll still be checking. And then when I finally use the V word, you know I'm like, wow, I am going on vacation, you know, because I think we need to just be available at all times, and it's not true.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes. So I know we're hitting up against our time, but I do want to ask you one last question about your involvement in IECA. You have been a leader in IECA. You volunteered for countless numbers of different committees and roles and positions. Can you just speak to that a little bit, especially for newer consultants who are maybe newer members of IECA or who are not members of IECA yet? Like, how did that help you in your business development, just in your overall work, life satisfaction.
Speaker 2:So I'm a get involved kind of person, I'm a joiner, I'm like the true Girl Scout of like showing up at everything on time. But I remember when I started to get I never missed an IECA conference, two conferences a year. And then they recognize like, oh, you'll be on this committee and then you'll be head of that committee. So one thing I think I've been on more committees. Maybe 15 years ago I was the committee for conferences Do we do one conference or two and finally after 15 years we're moving down to one conference. But I think I remember 12 years ago they asked if I want to do the business for summer training Institute.
Speaker 2:If I tell you how nervous I was, I almost needed some negatives. I worked three weeks straight preparing people before me had like MBAs and this and that, and came with all these qualifications and I thought okay, and then I did my first session and I did three sessions. I did my first one and Mark and Sue and Steve my big cheerleaders are like Susie Orman oh my God, you were like a one man showdown there. Oh, can you that? That was incredible and I had no idea I never like spoken in front of a group like that. And then, 12 years later, still doing summer training, institute and being involved. So I say yes to everything because I love it and I love inspiring and I know so many people and these are all my good friends. That's what the industry brings in these conferences is friendship and colleagues and it's been great. So I jump in always, I do the hokey pokey and jump in with put your whole self in. That's me.
Speaker 1:I love that. Jonah, we're so lucky to have you. You are an inspiration to many. Many people have mentioned you on the podcast and yes, so thank you for all of your efforts and volunteerism, because it's a lot when you're running a business, you have three children of your own, you have a family, and then to be so involved and to put that much effort in I mean, I can only imagine how fantastic your sessions are at SCI.
Speaker 2:So I'm excellent, thank you. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:So, Joan, is there anything that you'd like to share or any questions that you'd like to answer that I have not asked you yet.
Speaker 2:Well, a new question that I asked my students and I have a couple of trick questions at the intake and I went to NACAC and Westmore was up on the stage with the secretary of education and he was asked Westmore, what is your next sword you want to sharpen for your next fight? What is your sword you want to sharpen for your next fight? And I asked my students that and I catch them all off guard. It's like the pin cushion question, because we want them to be self-reflective. And when I say you know, westmore, governor Marilyn, he says he wants to sharpen a sword for the next fight.
Speaker 2:What is your next fight? Wow? And they're all like oh, what do you mean? Or oh, you know. Then they said the SATs or you know, getting through the math test. But I think that we always push our colleagues and ourselves to think about all of the swords, you know, whether it's as a member of humankind or in our world or in our profession, and I never care what the answers are, but I just like to see how people think on their feet.
Speaker 1:I love that, joan, what a great way to end. And I'll just I mean, I think, that message along with your 200 percent, like I now I want to start showing up 200 percent, right, like, show up for people because it will pay off. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, joan, thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for being on. This was so much fun.
Speaker 2:I am thrilled to be invited and you know you're just a delight and bring a lot of 200 percent to all the work that you do. And thank you for all your leadership throughout across all organizations. You're an inspiration to all of us oh thank you, joan.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for being on Awesome Thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode of the business of college consulting. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did enjoy it, please leave a review on Apple Podcast or Spotify, or share it with a friend in the college consulting industry. I'll see you next week on our new episode. In the meantime, take care.