The Business of College Consulting
The Business of College Consulting
Nothing But Drama with Chris Andersson
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You can't miss this episode with Chris Andersson, former Director of Admissions at NYU's Tisch School and founder of Nothing But Drama. In our latest episode, Chris recounts his move from academia to entrepreneurship, sharing the highs and lows of his journey.
Chris highlights the collaborative spirit among college consultants and the ethical creation of referral networks. He shares his strategic steps in scaling his business, touching on the breakthroughs that came with hiring a social media manager and other contractors to lighten his workload and free up his time to work with more students.
Tune in for an episode filled with actionable insights, whether you're an established IEC or someone just starting to navigate the college consulting waters.
Welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke Daly, founder and CEO of Advantage College Planning and Advantage College Planning. Franchising, building and growing a business is not for the faint of heart. In this podcast, you'll hear incredible stories from successful college consultants about growing a thriving business. They'll share the secrets behind their remarkable growth and the trials and triumphs shaping their path to success. Welcome to the business of college consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke daly, and I have the pleasure today of introducing chris anderson from my favorite business name. Nothing but drama.
Speaker 2:Welcome, chris hello, it's great to be here, brooke, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, Thanks for spending your time here. So, Chris, I was looking at your website full disclosure and I was looking at your background. One of, I think, your accomplishments prior to becoming an independent educational consultant is you worked for the Tisch School in the drama department as the director of admissions.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:So tell me about, or tell our audience about, the transition from that role to being an educational consultant. What was the motivation?
Speaker 2:I would say the motivation was a couple of things. One was wanting, I think, to work a little bit more closely with students. You know, as the director of admissions I was the host of the auditions when they would come to do their auditions for the drama department, and that was wonderful and it was a big group, lots and lots and lots of students every year, thousands of students every year. But you know, thinking of moving into this consulting work would mean I could work more one-on-one with students, and so that was one motivation. And another was money, to be honest. Another was that I'm like, well, if I could do something on the side to bring in a little bit more income, that would be great, because I was in arts education, so it wasn't the most lucrative of professions. So those were probably things that drove me to explore other avenues.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So obviously, with your background, that's an easy transition. You work with students. You understand the admissions process. How did you feel about the business side of getting into business, and how did you end up filling any gaps in your knowledge or what you needed to know in order to start into business? And how did you end up filling any gaps in your knowledge or what you needed to know in order to start a business?
Speaker 2:I will say that was something that kind of surprised me along the way. You know, I had never run my own business. I was. You know, I was always working for other people and when I started this, I mean it was a big learning curve. I did certainly support that by working. You know, going to conferences, going to sessions A lot of the sessions that I would go to in the beginning were business practices sessions so that I could kind of learn from my colleagues kind of how they're doing it. And I found over time that I actually really really liked the business aspect of it. You know, sure I love the consulting, I love working with the students, but the problem solving and the brainstorming part of the running a business I actually found that I liked. So that really surprised me. So the kind of transition was almost one of excitement in a way that I had this new adventure that I was on that was kind of separate from my day-to-day job. You know that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I'm so glad to hear that, because that's not typical for most consultants. When they get into business, they're like oh, the business side, you know. So it sounds like you looked at it as an opportunity to learn, which is very cool. Love that. So did you start part-time while you were still working in admissions and how did you make that jump to full-time and what was the timeframe?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was a very, very, very, very side gig, you know, in the very beginning, because I didn't actively market, I didn't actively recruit. I started to get to know colleagues by attending conferences and things like that and speaking to people and building a network of people. And then I would get referrals from other colleagues who said I have a drama student, Could you work with them on their artistic review prep. So I kind of just took whoever would come. So it was always a small cohort of students and I would say that was probably for the first I've been in business, for I'm in my 11th year, so I've completed 10 years worth.
Speaker 2:I would say probably the first five years I was still working at NYU at that time and so it was just, like I said, kind of a little side thing that I did. And then it got to a point where I needed to kind of make a decision as to whether I would go forward with the business full-time or I would stay at NYU and things got a little complicated there. So I made the decision to leave and to jump fully into my practice. So for the last then five years I was working to build it up into an actual full-time thing that would support me. So that transition kind of happened to me in a way. But it was a great thing Turned out to be a great thing, because then I was out there I had to figure it out and then I had to work to change the balance of it and be more active in in getting students and building my network and things like that.
Speaker 1:I love it. So what was your biggest challenge in making that transition?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it's a little, you know, big picture, thinking that, oh, this is supporting me, like this I have to, this is what's going to make help me eat and keep a roof over my head, and things like that. So I think there was, you know, I had was working, I had working on savings, you know, for a while and working really hard to build it. I think that was, I guess, just the mindset that I was responsible for the success of this business. No one else was, it was just me, and I think that was, and it became a vital thing?
Speaker 1:Yes, it was a necessity.
Speaker 2:Like you had to make it work, it was vital thing, right, so it was a necessity, like you have a necessity, right, and I think that in itself, just as a concept, was probably one of the most challenging things.
Speaker 1:I think that I, you know, I can appreciate that I did it as a choice but still had that feeling of the pressure of having to make it work because, yeah, that's what's in front of you. So you mentioned, you know, working like by yourself and you being the one being responsible. Can you talk a little bit about how you've been able to maybe leverage relationships or networks in order to feel like you're not so alone? Because I think that that's part of the challenge of becoming an independent educational consultant is, a lot of people are coming from admissions or high school counseling and they have a team of people who they collaborate with regularly and then they transition to this solo. I'm at home often, so just can you talk a little bit about how you kind of created your network?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the professional associations have been phenomenal for that. That is like one of the biggest recommendations I could make for someone entering the profession, because you then have that network again and you have those people again and you're meeting and if you participate, you know either, coming to I keep saying going to conferences where you're mixing and mingling and you're not only learning things but then then you're meeting at the coffee station, meeting new people, you're sitting at roundtables where you're discussing stuff and you're hearing your colleagues and hearing thoughts. You perhaps do. I did the summer training institute at IECA, for example, and that. So some of those people were people that then we became friendly and then we see each other at conferences.
Speaker 2:So you have like your kind of little group and those are people that I could call and ask questions to and everyone is OK with it. You don't? You want to find the people you can ask questions and don't feel self-conscious. You're like, should I know this? I probably should know this, but to have those people and I think also the oh, there's regional groups.
Speaker 2:This is another thing I was thinking about that there are people in your local area that you might be able to go get together with, and some of those groups meet like weekly and then. So then there's always a resource, you know where you can get help and then you don't feel as alone because you know, yes, I'm in my house by myself but I have, I can call a whole bunch of people or get on a Zoom with people right round table about business topics and ask it to a bigger group and get a whole bunch of things. So I would say those, the, those are like the best networking thing you know. And I think also, I feel like sometimes people will you know if you, if you work with other people, you know if you're, if you're partnering with, with other people or or even getting a little help on your own yes, or even getting a little help on your own, yes, let's talk about that partnership.
Speaker 1:But first I want to mention that I was on an IECA committee meeting and someone was talking about they had just gone on the college tour that IECA hosted, and the overall sentiment was that, you know, the tours are awesome and amazing and the colleges do such a great job of hosting us, but the time on the bus is the most valuable because you get to sit there and talk to your colleagues and talk about the biggest challenges you're having or your student success in the admission process and what happened at different colleges, and so I think that relationship building you're right is so important. So you talked about partnering with people and working with people. So one thing that is unique, I think, about your business is that you do have a very targeted audience, right. So talk a little bit about how that works and who you work with and the different ways that you're working with clients. Does that question make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes sense. I would say so, so, yeah. So what I do is I work with theater students, film students and dramatic writing students who are applying to undergraduate or graduate programs to study those fields and I help them with the artistic review prep. So that's audition prep, putting their auditions together or putting their portfolios together, their filmmakers or writers or directors or designers and then if a student also needs help with the college application support, I help them with that as well. So that's the services that I offer.
Speaker 2:If I'm only helping a student with the artistic side of things, that means they're usually working with another consultant who is helping them with the artistic side of things. That means they're usually working with another consultant who is helping them with the application support. So when I'm doing that, we're kind of sharing the student, we're not necessarily working together the two consultants so much. We meet at. Maybe the college list discussion is where we kind of, where I may have some suggestions for the student that might be good artistic matches for them, suggestions for the student that might be good artistic matches for them.
Speaker 2:But I do leave the college list building exercise that service lives with the IEC is helping them with the application process. So I'm just offering some other options. And then, basically, if an IEC has a family that walks in the door and they're like I can help you with all of this and they're like, and we're a drama family, and then they're like great, I don't know anything about artistic reviews, but I know someone who does. And then they send the family to me, they contract with me directly and then I help them with the artistic review process, the referring IC helps them with the application process, and so that the parents are basically paying two of us for the two different processes, because they are two parallel processes with the same right set of dates and deadlines and all of that stuff to put together, you know yes, it is nice in that regard that it is very separate.
Speaker 1:I feel like, for example, with the athletic recruiting process, like the overall, there there's a lot of overlap with like lists and things like that. So that is that it is. It can be separated as cleanly in the arts. So that's very cool. And you know, that's one thing that we've talked on the podcast before about is that that feeling when you're new, that you want to work with anyone or everyone who's willing to pay you right, because you feel that pressure of having to be successful.
Speaker 1:And I think it's great for folks to know that there are people in you know all of the different kind of niche areas that do collaborate with consultants. So if you do have you know an athlete or an artist or a dancer or you know whatever it may be, that you can partner with people who are already doing this in the field and have that as their area of expertise and sometimes, depending on the person and the topic, they will be willing to almost mentor you through the process as well, so that you learn alongside that person. So I think it's difficult when you first start to have the confidence to say I don't know, but I can refer you to someone else or I can collaborate with someone else, but I think it's really important, especially from an ethical perspective, that you don't work with students who you feel like you're over your head or you know you don't have the content or the knowledge in order to help that student as well as someone else can.
Speaker 2:Right and like it's nice, because then you as the consultant, you can actually, you actually can say yes to everyone who comes in your door. If you've got, you know, several consultants who are specialists that you're like, oh, I can take you, Sure, I've got someone I can refer you to for that piece of it, great, all right, you know. So it kind of really does. Let you kind of take all comers in that way and without, like you said, without the pressure of like now I have to figure this out. And also sometimes these specialty students or these applicants, they come around every so often. So you get a dancer every so often, maybe get a filmmaker every so often, you get in a, and there's no way for you to keep all of that in your head if it's, if it's infrequent. So this is where I think it's, and that's another thing, with your colleagues getting to know people and you're like, oh, I know this person, love that person, great, I can work with them, terrific, and it's a great system, I think.
Speaker 1:I love that, yes, so let's talk about your business growth. So about five years ago, maybe six years ago, you went full-time and you had mentioned, right before we started recording, that you work with project managers. Can you talk a little bit about that role?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this was another colleague kind of mentioned that they were using someone in this capacity.
Speaker 2:They had brought someone on their team to kind of track the students like student wrangler I'm calling them project manager and it was really what we've created is we've created like kind of checklist of assignments with deadlines and the two project managers they're in my practice they each have their own kind of cohort of students.
Speaker 2:One is for the whole thing, applications and artistic reviews, and the other handles the kids are only artistic review, and they're going to be now going through the process with them, checking in with them every couple of weeks to say, hey, just going through the checklist, making sure they keep moving forward on things.
Speaker 2:And this way the idea is that then we won't lose anyone, you know, in the cracks or where I'm like I haven't heard from this kid in like two months, like wait a minute, what's? So this way at least they're kept and they're moving forward and that maybe with this added motivation, I feel like it's an extra service that I'm providing, right, right, but I think the parents will really like it and the students don't know that they really like it, but it'll be really helpful for them and I really like it because it's calming me down to say, okay, I don't have to keep track of all 20, whatever kids, I've got someone else who's doing that. I can just be in the moment with them and have my meetings with them and do the other work that I need to do with them. But I know that they're still moving forward.
Speaker 1:They're moving along. So just to be clear, you're still working with all of the students. It's just project managers managing and making sure that they're on top of deadlines and getting things and assignments. Yes, exactly yeah, student wrangler, absolutely Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes, so tell me about the background of those people. How did you find them?
Speaker 2:Well, I have to say I was very lucky because the first of them I brought she was a student actually at Tisch in the drama department, cool. And when I first met her she became an ambassador for the drama department. So she was at all the admissions kind of events that I was giving, open houses and things like that. She'd be one of the students that was there. And whenever she was there I'm like I was like okay, it's okay, molly's there, because she just had a maturity and she just got how to talk to parents, how to talk to students. I never had to worry about her. She kind of became a leader in that group of ambassadors.
Speaker 2:So then after she graduated, a few years after I graduated, I was able to expand my little tiny little admissions team in in in the drama department. So I hired her, so she joined the team and then I was able to as a kind of seasonal temp or something, and then I brought her in as a full-time person, because then we just work really, really well together and she's fantastic. So what she brings to this is that she went through an artistic review process, right. So for those kids, she knows exactly what they're going through. She attended a BFA theater program so she knows what that's all about. And then she worked on the admissions side with me so she was running the artistic review process. So she's got a really good comprehensive understanding.
Speaker 2:And then Cheryl Molly's been working with me on my social media and then we've just expanded to do the student wrangling. And then I brought Cheryl on, who's just a very dear friend of mine, who's an actor, has an acting background, she's a theater person, she's also a very lovely nurturing person, so she's a perfect person to kind of shepherd the kids through this. And so they're two people I know very well and trust and we get along really, really well. So I know very well and trust and we get along really really well. So it's I'm very, very lucky with that. So I didn't have to look far to get the help that I needed.
Speaker 1:Sounds like you got the right people on the bus, Chris. Yes, yes. So do you mind me asking how do you compensate them? Are they out in part time?
Speaker 2:Yes, so they're independent contractors because and so they bill me monthly. They send me invoices and break down their hours of what they worked on, and then that's how I pay them.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's great. That sounds awesome. Do you have any other teammates or any other business? Support people.
Speaker 2:So in my little it's just us, it's just the three of us, but I do have a bookkeeper. Bookkeeper, yes, so I've retained a bookkeeper, I have a tax accountant and I think that's it as far as other people. In that way I also have some people other here I am going like it's just us. And then we have these other independent contractors that work on singing. If a student needs some support with their singing, their song evaluations, I have someone with that someone. If the students have to put together a dance video and they're they don't have help for that, I have someone that I can contract for that. Another person who will work with them on classical monologues or grad school at theues, because, again, they're people that I know and that I know have this expertise and would be good. So, kind of as needed, I bring them in when needed. So I guess I have a group of people that I can call on as needed. And then I have jobbed out the bookkeeping.
Speaker 2:That was something I kind of figured out along the way is the things that you don't want to do or the things you maybe can't do, right, just job them out. And I mean that's easy to say because it costs money. So that's, I think, the thing that people are getting started. They're like but I could, I could, yeah, well, like, sure, but I have to pay these people. And it's true, yes, but when you're, you're running, running your own, your sole proprietor, and you're responsible for everything. If you're like, if someone else is keeping the books, it might be worth it to calm my head down a little bit and give me a little space for all the rest of it.
Speaker 1:So and it could possibly increase your capacity so you can work with more students. You're going to earn more if you offload the things that you don't absolutely have to be doing, so I think that's a very good point. When I first started, I did my own books through QuickBooks and I have my degree in business, so I felt fairly confident that I could keep the books. But then it just became a thing. It was every month. I'm like, oh. So once I had that feeling like three or four months in a row, I'm like what am I doing? I can just hire the bookkeeper and have her do it. So that's great.
Speaker 2:So everyone out there you heard Brooke go, so anything that you're making that sound for, those are the things you need to offload.
Speaker 1:That's what you need to offload Exactly, exactly, so true. So tell me about your either, let's say, since you started full-time, what's been your biggest business challenge, or maybe a decision you made that you wish you could go back and change what's been challenging for you, because, based on what you've said, it seems like you've had a fairly smooth ride, with the exception of the pressure of having to make it work right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I will say no, there have been plenty of challenges along the way. I mean, it's not like this. You're absolutely right, you can't be doing this without there being challenges at all, and some of them are teeny, tiny, little day-to-day how do you? I mean, I think Well, I said that before it's like there's so much problem solving. That goes with being a business owner, so even some of the little things can be challenging. You're like I'm trying to solve this thing, which still continues, but then there's their bigger picture stuff as well. So I think one of the things like decision, I think, I don't know, I don't think is not bringing help on earlier.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, when I brought Molly on, first it was to do social media and I was doing research on theater schools, film schools and summer high school programs and I created a Google form for myself and I had the information I needed to put in there and then Molly would take the information and create slides for Instagram, linkedin and Facebook. And what I realized along the way is that I have the ability to do that. I can do social media. That's not foreign to me. I could post, I could do all of it. I just don't have the capacity to do it because I'm running the business and doing the business. So, bringing her on to do that, all of a sudden I had a social media presence and you know, we it still lives there.
Speaker 2:We did, we did it for about three years. We've taken a little bit of a break to kind of retool some other things and we'll get back to it. But I wouldn't have had a social media presence if I had not hired her. And it was a moment where you're like, oh yeah, I should have done this sooner, you know. But the challenge is it's hard to put up to even like say, well, you know what was the biggest? A lot of them.
Speaker 1:But yeah, well, and like you said, sometimes it's those small things that feel like they take up more headspace than necessary. And I'm trying to think of a recent example. Well, mine is not really college consulting related, but I had something on my to-do list that I was just procrastinating and it felt bigger. But then when I actually started taking action and working on it, I was like, oh goodness, this was not what know, agonizing over it really actually was not that big of a deal. So I guess, let's we can shift gears a little bit and talk about, like, what are you thinking for the future? Like, do you have a growth plan or do you have an idea of where you want to be in the next year, three years or five years?
Speaker 2:I think I do, I think I do and you know, I feel like bringing on these student wrangler project managers is setting a little bit of a structure up to, like you said earlier, to be able to take on more students. You know for all of you out there, it is expensive to run a business and if you also want to have a salary for yourself, there's a volume. It's all about the volume and pricing and figuring all of that out. And so I feel for me, having this support, I could actually take on more students and that could be actually helpful for me, for the financials of the business itself. I think there are ways to make things work better, to continually thinking of continually improving the business, the way you run the business, and this is speaking a little to what we were talking about before.
Speaker 2:One of the big things that I was able to overcome some challenges. It all came. I knew it was going to come in my brain. One solution that I found was automation, where I could do automation in there I just because the little pain points. What were my pain points? And my pain points were scheduling the back and forth of the 8 million emails just to find an appointment. The invoicing, because there's several steps to invoicing. It doesn't magically happen. You have to add up stuff. You got to put stuff in templates, you got to actually send it and then you got to actually see if they Remember, if they paid you and if they didn't pay you. Then you got to follow up. I mean all of that. That was the second pain point. And the third pain point was the contracts. Then you have to get contracts back and forth.
Speaker 2:So what I did do and this it helps as you move forward because I automated these things right so I added a scheduling system to the website. So now often the first time I meet a family is in the meet and greet. Yes, I haven't communicated with them, because my little scheduler has communicated with them. Thanks for signing up. Wonderful reminders, all that. Then I added a payment processor to that. So I say, okay, if you're going to pay for things, you pay for them upfront through the payment processor and it's done. There's no invoicing, they've paid it all already.
Speaker 2:I was like this is amazing. And then I took the contracts to a terms and conditions checkbox in the scheduling system. I give them, I think, three different points where they can read the terms and conditions, like in follow-up emails and things like that. But every time they make an appointment they have to check that they read and agreed to the terms and conditions. So now I don't wait for our signed contract to come back and the kid has an appointment. And how do you play that? So I took all of that out and that those and I did that quite some time ago now, but it it really is remarkable how it it can help you open your brain up to what's ahead, what is the future, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. Do you want to share any tools specifically by name? I know Calendly is one that a lot of consultants use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I built my website in Squarespace, so I did that myself, and Acuity Scheduling is the company that they did an integration with Squarespace, so I'm like, well, I mean it's integrated, so I just used it. Yes, so that those were the. Those were those two tools, and then the payment processor was part of the scheduling system and they, that's through Stripe and PayPal, that people can use those. But yeah, there's so much to it. Look at all the things that were even just little details that we're talking about.
Speaker 1:It's like yes, exactly Exactly. And it's sometimes those seemingly little things that once you solve that, it's like, oh my goodness, life is so much better. So I love those examples of your pain points that you were able to overcome with automation. Perfect Love that. So what do you think is going to be your biggest challenge in the next year, or do you have any current pain points that you're working on?
Speaker 2:I think, a tough thing that we were just experiencing right now. So, with the two project managers, we have been restructuring things and kind of really setting these processes down, in that we have a project management system we're using ClickUp is the one that we're using project management system we're using, clickup is the one that we're using, and so we have our process in there using Google Sheets for the student checklists and so we have a whole Google Drive folder structure for the students with spreadsheets and fun with spreadsheets with Chris Anderson and with a lot of us. I think that's very popular and so usually, or in the past, up until a year or so ago, the January, february, march timeframe was the kind of time when you can like, okay, most of the applications are in, the kids are kind of quiet for a moment. We can redo things. I mean, in my world auditions were still happening, so they weren't totally quiet. But now this year we're redoing stuff, kind of like we're making the boat while we're in the boat, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's it's been challenging there. I would say um, uh for this. So I'm looking as far as looking ahead. I'm like you know, we're going to have to see how this goes this year because this is going to be kind of all new and they're both great and so we're having really great conversations and really working stuff out to to make it run, and but this will be the first real year that we're fully all doing it. So that's the big challenge for this year. It's like a whole new kind of management system of our process and and we'll see. You know, I created a timeline. It's a very, very ambitious timeline. Is it going to be able to be met by anybody, who knows? But it's a place to start and we'll see, you know. So I think that's the kind of big challenge ahead.
Speaker 2:And then I have been as far as other sort of ahead stuff is. I work with a lot of students from around the world. You know a lot of students from around the world. You know a lot of students from around the country, but also students in other parts of the world who are applying to schools here or the UK or Canada. And I have been enjoying getting out into the world more and learning more about, you know, arts universities in Europe, in the UK and you know and expanding my own knowledge to an international sphere so that I can advise the kids. So that's where my sights like just this past year and this year I'm turning is traveling and trying to. I think my goal is to really have an understanding of all the English language programs in the fields that I'm working within, that at least I understand them, I know them, I've identified them, I found them. That's, I think, kind of a newish goal, I think, for.
Speaker 1:No one travels more than you, chris. Yes, when I grow up, I want to be just like you. I think that's so cool, though so cool, that's awesome. So can you give your best piece of advice for a new consultant? They're just starting out what do you?
Speaker 2:yes, I think you know okay, it's a two-parter what I say to students all the time, the the arts kids, when they're asking how do I stand out, how do I stand out with my auditions, how do I stand out, how do I stand out with my auditions, how do I stand out with my portfolios? And I say just be yourself. I said maybe it sounds cheesy, but it is so simple, because you are your most unique when you are being yourself. If you're trying to be what you think these evaluators want to see from you, you're not being authentic, they're not getting to know you through this process. And I think, in a way that can translate to us and our colleagues and as you're entering this profession and as you're growing a business, is to remember you know, to be true to yourself and how you want to run your business and who are the types of students you want to work with, like, do you have particular kinds of students or are you open to everybody, to kind of do the soul searching for yourself so that you can be happy in your business? I found that over time what one of the big kind of transformations, too, was confidence, was my confidence level in that in the beginning, you're feeling like you know, like you have to. I feel like the power dynamic may be changed. In the beginning, I feel like the customer, the families, had more power than I did Because you feel like I'm new. All right, oh, you need that. Okay, I'll do that. Or, or I can shift my hours. Sure, sure, sure, yeah, I'll work at midnight. Yeah, no problem, I'll work on the weekends. I'll work like every day. Okay, every day. I'm available for anyone, anyone, at any time, you know, and you're doing so much because you feel that you need to. Or there's the idea of feeling like you're like, you know, I'm just starting in this and maybe I shouldn't charge too much because I feel like I'm maybe I don't know enough, and so all of that over time shifted, at least I can say for me where I was like, oh no, I actually do know what I'm doing, I'm actually good at what I do, I'm actually really good with my clients, with the students and families, and I also have to take care of myself. So, as far as sketch structuring my week, you know, when am I having student meetings? When am I having my life? You know? And so I think that as your confidence builds, the power then shifts more to you, to where you're like. This is how I run my office.
Speaker 2:You know we often hear our colleagues say, like you know you don't question the doctor's office hours, you know you just take an appointment whenever it's available. So the same thing. Here you can say I don't want to work weekends, okay great. Or I want to work one day on the weekend, or I'll have some evening hours, or I won't have evening hours. And that is to look forward to that shift in your confidence as you grow and learn and you start to actually take ownership of this and say I am good enough and I am worth being paid a lot of money for you know, because I mean, this profession has impressed me so much. I mean the people in this profession have impressed me so much.
Speaker 2:From the very beginning, the amount of knowledge, the intellectual curiosity of our peers has always blown me away. And the knowledge you know for me I had it easy. I have a specific set of schools and types of programs that I'm working with, but so many of our colleagues are working with whoever walks in the door, so the breadth of knowledge that they have to know is just blows me away and I so. When we talk about pricing and things like that, it is like you were doing all, doing so much work and so to, and spending a lot of money to gain this knowledge, and so it's a very rewarding, I have to say, profession to be in, because my colleagues are all amazing people and I'd learn from them every day and it's just, I just love it, I just love it, I just love it.
Speaker 1:That's so sweet. I love it. No, I love how you explain that as a shift in power. That's so I mean. It's so true. When you first start out, you feel like you have to be everything to everyone and then I think actually clients respect you more when you do create those boundaries and you set the expectations right, like it's, when you start being, as you mentioned, being confident and saying like these are my hours, you know, pick a time versus yeah, I'll work at midnight or I'll answer your texts at 11 pm or whatever it is. I think when you start putting up the boundaries, people do respect you for that. So, yeah, but, like I said, I love how you explained it as a shift in power. Good deal.
Speaker 1:So, Chris, any other piece of advice or impactful people books, anything else that you want to share with someone who is starting their business?
Speaker 2:share with someone who is starting their business. Influential people for me, I will say, were my parents, because both of them had their own businesses. At one point, my dad left working for other people and he started his own business, and my mom had a tax prep business for years and years and years. So from January to April we didn't see her. She was in a little law school for years and years and years.
Speaker 1:So from January to April we didn't see her.
Speaker 2:She was in a little law school yeah, who's mom? And so, yeah, so it's like it dawned on me one day that I'm like, oh, I clearly got an entrepreneurial streak that, like I said earlier that I didn't know I even had yeah, I love it From them and so therefore, they were great sources of advice for me as I was building the business, because they had both done this. So I think even and I say this because new IECs, mentors if there's anyone in your life, it doesn't even have to be. They were not educational consultants, right, so like, but the business side of things, I mean having someone who's a mentor. If you have anyone that you have a relationship like that with or that is a business, is a fellow entrepreneur or fellow sole proprietor, solopreneur, as they're saying. Now, you know, go to them. I feel like people are very often happy to give you advice. Don't be afraid to ask. Maybe that's the thing. Happy to give you advice, don't be afraid to ask. Maybe that's the thing to not be afraid to ask people to say, like you've been doing this, for I can't figure out how to do this aspect of it. You know, and there are, there are books, you know, I will say, to gain confidence.
Speaker 2:I like to educate myself and you know I did do when I, you know, in the, for the first several years I was only doing the auditions side of things, the artistic review side. Then a few years ago, I started doing the application support as well, because all my colleagues were like, why are you not doing that? And I'm like, because you're doing it, I'll just stick to the audition, that's the fun stuff. But then I thought, all right, let me offer both. And so I went and I did a with the um, an independent educational consulting certificate program at uci in their division of continuing education, and it gave me the knowledge that I didn't have and also then gave me, validated, the knowledge I already had absorbed from all my colleagues, like I said. So that's another thing I could say you know, and through that there are books that you know, that, that you're assigned and things like that. But that's another educational opportunity that can also give you the feeling you're like yeah, okay, I know what I'm doing here. Confidence, exactly Confidence.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, thank you so much, chris, for taking the time with us today. So, fun.
Speaker 2:It was so nice to be here. Thanks for having me. This is so much fun.
Speaker 1:And if anyone wants to reach out to Chris, I will share that. His website is nothingbutdramacom. Again, my favorite business name, love it so creative. Thanks again, Chris.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Brooke.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Business of College Consulting. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did enjoy it, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or share it with a friend in the college consulting industry. I'll see you next week on our new episode and in the meantime, take care.