The Business of College Consulting
The Business of College Consulting
Finding Balance and Setting Boundaries in Educational Consulting with Aubrey Groves
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Aubrey Groves shares her journey from Chinese language teacher to joining her mother's college consulting business, Davis Groves Educational Services, and how they've built a thriving practice focused on creating work-life balance for working parents.
• Joining her mother's college consulting business after teaching Chinese for six years
• Bringing technology improvements like Google Docs to streamline their processes
• Transitioning to a fully remote business model and creating more efficient systems
• Developing a filtering system for identifying client "red flags"
• Evolving their curriculum to ensure students take ownership of their applications
• Finding the right balance in potentially using AI for appropriate tasks
• Creating a business that intentionally supports working parents
• Setting firm boundaries around personal time with two dedicated days off weekly
• Building a mother-daughter business relationship that leverages different strengths
• Focusing exclusively on seniors from August to November to maintain quality service
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Welcome to the Business of College Consulting podcast. I'm your host, brooke Daly, founder and CEO of Advantage College Planning and Advantage College Planning. Franchising, building and growing a business is not for the faint of heart. In this podcast, you'll hear incredible stories from successful college consultants about growing a thriving business. They'll share the secrets behind their remarkable growth and the trials and triumphs shaping their path to success. Welcome to the Business of College Consulting Podcast. I'm your host, Brooke Daly, and today I have the pleasure of talking with Aubrey Groves IEC at Davis Groves Educational Services in the Austin, texas area.
Speaker 2:Aubrey, thank you so much for joining me today. Well, thank you so much for inviting me, Brooke. I'm very excited to talk about the business today.
Speaker 1:Me too. I'm so excited to hear your story because I know a little bit about it, and I can't wait to hear how it came to be that you became an IEC. For the listeners who are not familiar with your story, do you want to share how you found college consulting?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. My mom was a mom of three actually, and I was the oldest and she hired an educational consultant to work with all three of her children because we had moved between high schools. So she was concerned about some special circumstances and she ended up really loving all of the work and did a lot of it a little bit more than our IEC did actually at the time, because it was a very different business at that time. And when she became an empty nester, we encouraged her to go back to school and do this professionally because she just really had a heart and a passion for it. And so she did. She actually founded our business, davis Grubbs Educational Services, in 2011. And she founded the business with the hopes that I would come in with her, because she just loved the idea of a family business.
Speaker 2:She grew up in a family business herself, you know, back with her own parents, so she kind of wanted that for her own children and I am the one that has come in so far, and I had to go on my own journey first. So I am an English major by trade, you know, so I'm really good with the essays. That's kind of where my journey began a little bit, but I also had a huge passion for East Asia, so I minored in Mandarin Chinese. I lived abroad in England, china and Japan. I came back, I got my master's at Duke and then I was a Chinese language teacher for six years, which was very fun, but I was working in boarding schools and private schools, so, as anybody who has been in those schools knows, you wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 2:In that capacity, you weren't just a teacher, and so I was an advisor to a lot of my students, and my mom would just be peppering me with all this stuff that she was learning as she was in her business.
Speaker 2:So I had more insight into the college application process than a lot of my counterparts were teachers and advisors, and you know.
Speaker 2:So I had students that were going through that application process and I found it really interesting and fascinating. And so when I moved back to Austin and was looking to transition out of teaching, my mom gave me the opportunity to give it a try, and so I started as an essay editor for her, while I was still kind of searching other jobs at that time, and that was in the summer of 2015. And she also encouraged me to go to IECA's Summer Training Institute. So I actually did that that summer as well, and while I was there I just really began to see how being an IEC would bring together so many aspects of what I loved about teaching, but also would allow me to move my life in the direction that I really wanted to a lot faster than any other jobs that I was considering at that point. So I came back from STI and mom literally threw me into the fire, and I have been with her ever since.
Speaker 1:So I love that, and it didn't take you long to start volunteering through IECA, right Because? I'm fairly certain. It was nine-ish years ago that I met you on a college tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so I have a knack for leading tours just because I was a chaperone for, like high school trips. So much so it's a very nice.
Speaker 1:That makes perfect sense because as a tour, I think you were a tour leader and I remember thinking, wow, she is brand new and she is taking control Like she's good at this.
Speaker 2:I'm actually wrapping up my two-year tenure on the tour committee and I'm really sad about it because I have loved it. It's been my favorite committee to have served on tour committee and I'm really sad about it because I have loved it. It's been my favorite committee to have served on so far. So I've told them I'm like if there's any way that I can come back, I would love to, but I also want to make sure other people have an opportunity to experience the fun that is serving on the tour committee. But yeah, my mom has always been a huge proponent of volunteer work and so she also really encouraged me to get involved in the different volunteer opportunities.
Speaker 2:I think it was I really started pursuing it once I'd finished up my IEC certificate at UCI. So like I was on the kind of the outreach committee for a while, I believe, and the education and training committee for a little bit, and then also the tour committee now. And then I have recently just wrapped up my I'm wrapping up my tenure as the chair of the Central Texas IACA Regional Group, so I'm getting ready to pass the torch there. So I'll still serve as ex officio because we're just implementing the new structure right now that IACA is kind of instituting thanks to Kendall Guss and so yeah that's Well.
Speaker 1:thank you for your service, aubrey. I know it's a lot to volunteer in all of those various positions. Aca is lucky to have you. That's great. So can you tell me from a business perspective? When you joined your mom, I assume that you were focused more on the college consulting work. How has your role evolved from a business development standpoint?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. I think some of the I would actually say even from the beginning, there was a drive in me to address some of the business components of the way she did things, Mostly because I had known of different technologies that could make us a little bit more effective and efficient, and also just trying to make us the best version of educational consultants that we could be. And thankfully she was open to that. I know that she had her systems in place and very much had her way of doing things. And there was a growing period, for sure, where we had to kind of get into that more growth mindset and I'm very grateful that she, we both got there together. But then as we started to like kind of evaluate the business from the perspective of of me kind of changing in my role, you know it was more thinking towards the future, of when the business would shift and she would want to retire, you know, and kind of asking me if this is what I wanted, if how I wanted the business to change and grow. And you know, to be honest, it was a little intimidating to think about growing the business. But I am one of those lucky IECs that has always been in practice with someone else. There's so many people who are so successful at being solopreneurs but, like I, have always been in a shared practice and I began to realize, like, oh, I like having somebody to bounce ideas off of that knows the business intimately. Like that is something that I would miss.
Speaker 2:So we began to start quietly looking for people to maybe expand the business and thinking about what that would look like in terms of training them and what we would need to do to set them up for as much success as possible and also making sure we found the right person to set them up for as much success as possible and also making sure we found the right person or people to bring in as much as we could.
Speaker 2:And it was scary, and I'm still working on it. I was very grateful for the opportunity for BGI because it really gave me such space in my schedule I think is the best way to put it to really put time into what my goals and aspirations were, as well as what that might look like to expand. You know, we've never really had to focus too much on marketing because mom has done such a great job of building a pipeline of referrals from families, so we haven't had to put as much energy into that. But I also think that we are definitely trying to codify a little bit more what it is that makes Davis Grouse Educational Services special, so that way we can hopefully better articulate it to attract the type of employees that we're looking for, as well as to make sure that we are documenting all that wonderful knowledge that's up in our head and getting it out, so that way everybody who we want to train can learn the process and have something to refer back to.
Speaker 1:So exactly, I love that and that is a process.
Speaker 2:Very much a process, as you know. As you know, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned technology as something that you enjoy and that it brought you, you know, efficiency in the business. Can you give a couple of examples, or maybe one example of something that you brought in that you feel like this really helped us?
Speaker 2:Oh, so I was very familiar with Google Docs, google Drive, google Sheets when I came into the business with my mom, because it was something I used all the time with my students and at the time mom was doing all of her essay editing in like Microsoft Word and was running into challenges because a lot of clients that we would work with would send things in page documents and you know, sending them back and forth and back and forth and having to convert them and everything. And I was like, could we just use Google Docs? That would make this so much better. And you know I had to help her to learn how to use Google Docs because she was more comfortable with Microsoft Word. And you know, thankfully she went on that ride with me and it has been a huge, a huge help, just because it's more universal.
Speaker 2:Most students have access to it, most parents have access to it. We can also keep track of every single version of all the different essays that we have, all of that stuff, single version of all the different essays that we have, all of that stuff. We've also gone on to create basically a digital version of our student notebook. So back in the day mom used to actually give a physical notebook to every student and we would have a version of that in our office where we would keep copies of every single email that we got from exchange with the students and parents and such. And I considered a huge win that we are now pretty much fully digital at this point and the student has a digital version of that notebook and we keep our files of email exchanges, like within our Gmail and stuff like that, so that that that was a huge victory on my part.
Speaker 2:That, and uh, helping mom realize that we could do be a fully, uh, fully, remote business. I was advocating for that a lot earlier than the pandemic, and it took the pandemic to really hit it home for my mom that that was something that we should do at that time, but that we could do and be more effective and efficient anyways. And, um, and now she loves it because she's just like we're so efficient, like I don't have to wait for people to find a parking spot, I don't have to worry about traffic impacting people, blah, blah, blah, like. And she's like we're never going back and I'm like awesome, that's, that's great, that's a good deal, good deal.
Speaker 1:So what percentage of your clients are local in the Austin area versus?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say probably 90% to 95% of our students are local, and then we have a very small percentage that fluctuates from year to year of like some other outside of the Austin area students. Like we have kind of a demographic that's been developing in Amarillo, which is in West Texas, and then we also have some students that have come to us from Nebraska. My mom worked with a family affiliated with Omaha Steaks once upon a time and they have continued to send us really amazing clients, so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's funny how that happens.
Speaker 2:You get that one client who ends up being a referral source and you just yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been kind of interesting, but they are demographics that I've really enjoyed. They've been wonderful families to work with, um, and and we're still kind of choosy about that, like if if we feel that a client would better benefit from somebody who's local, who has better knowledge of a certain you know area or certain like requirements of a state or or schools, like we will sometimes encourage that in person or closer more local relationship, but but if we feel like we're a good fit, then we we continue that relationship.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about that for a second? Sure, find clients who are a good fit, because I feel like that's such an important, especially for newer consultants who you know. When I first started I was like, if you have a pulse, I will take you on as a client, like.
Speaker 1:I'm not picky Like I, just need to grow this business Right. And so when you grow and you take on those clients that are not a good fit, you realize, like every good business coach tells you, that 10% of your clients take up 90% of your time. Yes, so tell me if you are because you did talk a little bit about, even in the hiring process thinking about your values and what's important to you. So when you are meeting with prospective clients, what kind of filters are you putting them through and what are some of the red flags for you when you see a family, oh, this is not a good fit.
Speaker 2:I am so glad you specifically use the term red flags, because that is exactly the system I use with my family is to be like, OK, you've got one red flag, but if you've got like three or more red flags I may not really want to work with you, and I was very grateful. I think it was Jess Charmack and Sawyer Earwood and Suzanne who did a wonderful presentation at IECA about red flag clients and how some people's red flags are not everybody's red flags. Sometimes it's an orange flag for somebody else and that just really gave me a great way to build the way I notice things in my practice. So, with regards to clients, some of the filters that we put them through is you know, we get an inquiry from a family, either through our website or through a direct email or a phone call, and we usually respond immediately with kind of our price list, because that sometimes makes people bow out of their we don't want to obscure our price, we want to make sure we're upfront about that. So that way, if they don't feel like it's worth the cost of doing business, then they opt out, which makes our actual pipeline once we get somebody in the pipeline a much higher success rate of moving forward and we also kind of articulate that we do like the free info session, kind of what we do in terms of our work, that we're fully remote.
Speaker 2:All of that stuff is in that initial email that we send to them. And then we have families fill out a parent questionnaire and then a student questionnaire and I will say that it's kind of a yellow flag if they don't fill it out before the meeting. You know, because that's sort of interesting, you know, because it speaks to their follow through on that front and that sort of thing. If a family cancels and reschedules the meeting a lot, that's also a bit of a yellow flag. I would say it's a red flag If it's like three or more times.
Speaker 1:I'm like we really need to do this or not.
Speaker 2:But I would also say too that kind of observing both the student and parent in the session like is very important, how the family answers the questions in our questionnaires is important, like if the parent is kind of very negative about their student, if they are very like kind of speaking derogatorily about them in the actual questionnaire a little bit, because we actually go over this questionnaire with the families in the session, like it's a talking point. So there are some times when I have to filter out what the parent has actually said because I don't feel like it's something that the student needs to hear. Yeah, and just kind of observing that interaction between student and parent. I would also say, like when they, if they come back at me with any sort of like very intense level of questioning, like you know, where have you gotten students in? Like, you know, do you get in students into IVs, blah, blah, blah. Like it's like I I don't have any control over that, no one does Um, you know, I think that I and we've actually, as a result of BGI, we've actually started to focus more of our tracking on like how many of our students got their top choice school or how many students got, you know a reach school and a wildcard school that we had kind of, you know, designated as such in-house To be like, well, our students still got into one wildcard and one reach, you know, and then like their targets and likelies, which you know is sort of our goal you know we're not here to help students get into every school, you know and just sort of how they follow up, you know if they follow through with responding to emails, if we need more information, or, you know, to move forward. So those are just kind of some some things.
Speaker 2:I did recently have a couple parents who scheduled meetings without their student, which was not OK, like because we say pretty clearly in the email, like we want to meet with you and your student, and they're like, oh, I didn't know I was supposed to have my student. And like it'll be very obvious, because it'll be like in the middle of a weekday, that they've scheduled a meeting and it's like, are you pulling your child out of school for this? Like, right, I also I think and this is a harder position to be in if you're first starting out like I, I do feel like we are in a position that we do not have to take every single client that comes our way and so like, if, if I get a bad read, if I get a bad vibe, like I will just say this is not worth it. In fact, the very first client that I actually got to pitch to on my own sort of as like I am going, this is going to be in my group of students that will be under my leadership, I guess was a red flag mom, like so many red flags. Like she had reached out in the summer, right before we start working with our seniors, and I said, hey, we're getting ready to start work with our seniors, so we either need to meet by this time or you need to schedule for after November 1st. And then she scheduled in the middle of October and I was like I'm sorry you did not read the directions, I can't meet with you until November 1st and so canceled that appointment, rescheduled for the proper time. And then she reached out to be like, are we still having this appointment? Like the day before it was supposed to happen. So she'd clearly gotten the reminder that comes automatically because otherwise she wouldn't have remembered, because I had sent her the Zoom link, you know, back in July or whatever it was. So it was clearly in her calendar in some fashion, you know. And I was like, yes, I was actually just about to check in with you because you have not filled out the questionnaires, so could you please do that? And she did.
Speaker 2:And then in the meeting she proceeded to tell me that the counselors at that student's high school were like all getting into Stanford or something. And I was like I don't know. I know that high school and I know that that is not the way you're talking about. It is not an accurate reflection of probably what is happening. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I would also maybe ask some further questions of the counseling staff for further clarification as to which of their students is getting into Stanford and is it possibly based off of athletic recruitment, because that might track a little bit more.
Speaker 2:You know, and she was just very adamant that this child, her first child, was like I. She wanted him to go wherever he wanted and all of that stuff, but like high end schools, and I was like that is not something that we would encourage a student to do. We are all about supporting our students with where they want, how they want to challenge themselves, but even for our high flyer students, they need to have this balance list. So I just felt like there was a lot of push and pull. That wasn't a value fit for us, because we really want to make sure we have students apply to a balance list. We want to make sure that students are going to have some yeses to choose from, not just a whole crop of no's, because of how difficult the admissions process has become.
Speaker 2:And then the follow-up thing to that is like she didn't get back to me by the date I'd sent to her like that I would hold the spot until and she didn't get back to me for several months afterwards and she finally reached back out. She's like oh, I really want to move forward. And I was like there is no spot for your child in my class. And she was like but, but, but, but. And I was like there is no spot for your child in my class. And it was very hard for me to say that, cause I didn't want to say like no, I will never work with you. But I was like. I was like you've not done anything wrong. You are advocating for your student in the way that you think is important, but I do not think it's a good fit. And she just kept pushing back in the emails and I was like, oh, I'm so glad I'm not working with this mom, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is just a glimpse into what you would, yes, potentially have to deal with.
Speaker 2:So, and at the base of all of that, I think it's just listening to your gut about it. Like if you get a bad vibe about the family, like Trust yourself, trust yourself, yes, yes, such great, great advice, aubrey.
Speaker 2:So when I'm curious, when you joined your mom, we talked about some of the business things that, or even technology things that you wanted to improve, anything from a curriculum standpoint that you were excited about working on or changing when you came on board what was was important to me, I think, is we found, as our business grew and how the admission process changed and how our clients kind of changed as well, it became much more involved in terms of the prep that we had to do to get students ready to fill out applications and all of that stuff. And I think so much of it mom initially like took on herself, like to do it for the students and like, in the sense of cause, it was just going to be faster, more effective, all of this stuff. And I was like as a teacher, I was like no, no, the student, the student needs to be doing that. Like we do not need to be doing that for them. That is like you know, and we've, we've gone back and forth.
Speaker 2:We've tried different things. Like, for example, we used to completely do the resume for them back in the day and then we really tried to put the resume in the family's court to do because they would change so much of it. They wouldn't like the way things were worded and everything. And then we got a lot of pushback when we put it really in their court because they were like this is something you should do, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like well, I still need all the information that you have in your head, like somehow.
Speaker 2:So we kind of settled on a compromise. So we build, we have a Google sheet that every student gets once they go into our comprehensive package, which is essentially divided into different sections for the different sections of the resume. So we have them brain dump all the info that we need for both the common application and the resume into that spreadsheet and we go over it with them line by line in a very long meeting to make sure it's as accurate as possible and that we haven't forgotten anything. And then we build the resume from there. And one of the evolutions that I want to work on is potentially finding a way to use AI to take that spreadsheet and build our resume for us. That is still in development right now, because I think it's actually an appropriate use of AI, because we're basically just presenting information. It's not something that has to be perfectly composed in somebody's unique voice, I think, but that is an evolution that mom is not fully on board with yet.
Speaker 2:So we're still still in development, but I would love to make that change because I think it would save us a lot of time, because I've already run a couple test resumes and fed like this is what we received from the student, this is what we made. Could you make something similar? And it's produced really good results, in my opinion. In you know probably about a fifth of the time that it takes us to build the resume.
Speaker 1:So I love that, aubrey. That's a great idea. So I'm so curious, because you were an English major and a teacher how are you feeling about AI and essays and I know? That's a big question.
Speaker 2:It is, but it's so. It is a question I've thought a lot about. There is a part of me that is a little intimidated by AI, because I hadn't really like dove into it and I kept signing up for workshops to really try to force myself to do it, and I've been very grateful that Bob Carlton ran one that was really just like we're just going to do it, we're going to rip off the bandaid and we're going to do it, and that was super helpful. But I'm still getting over my own anxiety about it, I think. But I would say as an English teacher and a foreign language teacher so I was an English major foreign language teacher we ran into this as a smaller problem in the foreign language department because of Google Translate, because it became very popular when I was a teacher, and so we would actually take the students to the computer lab and have them translate something into you know, whatever language it was that they were studying using Google Translate, and then translate it back and see how accurate the translation was, just to show them that this is a tool, but you shouldn't use it to do your homework for you. Perfect, and that is something that is becoming more important to me, I want to help students learn how to use AI as a tool, not as a replacement for their own ingenuity.
Speaker 2:But the problem is is I feel that we are still in such an uncertain time with how colleges interpret AI helping and AI writing you know they're still deciding what it looks like in their evaluation process that I have just told our students for now, like we think it's going to be a tool that everybody's going to be using later on, but we do not want you to use it right now.
Speaker 2:We do not want your application, if it goes through an AI detector, to pop and have your application thrown out. Like we also don't have complete visibility on all 4,000 institutions in the United States and their personal opinions about it. You know, and the opinions are varying Like, yes, like there's Caltech who is like how did you use AI to do this? And then there's other students, other places that are like, if you use AI, we will like ban you forever. You know like, yeah, it is a full spectrum and so, as much as it hurts my teacher heart, like you know, wanting to help students learn and to, in process, learn myself how to use it in a better, more effective way, I want that to be a part of our curriculum at some point, but I don't think at this time it has made sense because we're still waiting to see kind of the shake out of how it's going to play out.
Speaker 1:I totally agree and I feel like, oh, I think I know how math teachers felt when the calculator came out right. It's the same thing. They're like oh my God, no one's going to ever know how to do math again.
Speaker 2:Well, not really, that's not really how it played out.
Speaker 1:It's a tool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I have heard of some folks and I think this is a good way. It's sort of similar to that Google Translate lesson, like go ahead, put in some data and ask AI to do it and see if it sounds like you Like, and oftentimes students would see right away that it doesn't sound like them. Now, that does not take out the case of the student who is desperate to get an essay done and they don't have time. That student is in a very different frame of mind. So you know, right, pull out all the stops, we just need to get this done.
Speaker 2:We do run our students stuff through AI detectors just to be sure. We've tried to really impart to them through some webinars right before we start our application process. Like, hey, we want you to understand that colleges want to know you, not AI, not your parents, not your friends. Like this is about your voice, your journey. And also like we want you to work hard on this. Like we want you to put your best foot forward in this. Like I wouldn't say that an essay is going to get you into a school, but it's definitely going to help them to know you compared to, like, the data that they're going to receive on the application.
Speaker 1:So thank you, Aubrey, that's great. I'm so curious to know, like, what do you love about college consulting? And then maybe what are the parts of and I should say, what do you love about college consulting or the business of college consulting? And then what are the parts that you're like, oh, I could do without that consulting?
Speaker 2:And then what are the parts that you're like, oh, I could do without that. Yes, I think the parts that I love about college consulting is when I really see a student just come alive in the process, like whether that's they just really start to engage with being curious about their major and they're like I did this and I did this and this is what I realized I really liked, and that just shines through in their essay or their resume as a result. Or like when you really have that breakthrough with that kid that maybe just didn't believe in themselves at first but now is starting to like. You know, like I had a student this last year and she's probably one of my favorite students for the most recent years, just because she, she and I met a lot, because she was one of those very anxious people that just like I just need you to help me with every step of this process, aubrey, and I'm like no problem, I got you, it's fine, um, and. And she just really, I think, found her path and I think, helping, feeling like I helped her to find that path was really powerful for me and impactful, and like just to see how she went from. You know, I don't know about doing all these AP classes. Aubrey, like that sounds really hard to being like. Thank you for making me take these AP classes, cause I got into the school I wanted to you know kind of situation like you know and and stuff and like for whatever reason. I feel like we as consultants sometimes get into, push into this role where we become a potential adult voice that a young adult will hear, where they won't necessarily they'll be. We'll be saying the exact same things that their parents are saying to them, but they don't want to listen to their parents, but they will listen to us and like that. That is a very powerful position to be in and I do try very hard to treat that with respect. So I think kind of helping them to step into their own is my favorite part.
Speaker 2:Also just having really good essays. I love when I get a really good essay, that those are rare but they're super nice when they happen, and I just love that. I love when I get a really good essay, that those are rare but they're super nice when they happen and I just love that. I love brainstorming the essays with my students and just really kind of digging in and finding an interesting story and I'm also really good at cutting essays. Like it's a weird superpower that I have. Oh, I love that. That's fun. And my husband will startle in his office next door to mine because I just like exclaimed that I like cut down 500 words of an essay. I was like I did it.
Speaker 1:I did it yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very fun. But to the other part of your question what could I do without? I think what I have been experiencing a lot more lately, that has been sort of an element throughout, has been the fact that when expectations of a family or a student are not met and they are, even though we've tried to manage those expectations as much as possible, even though we've tried to manage those expectations as much as possible, they still sometimes hold on to some and they want to lay it at our feet as if it was our fault that that happened. That piece is really not my favorite, and I'm sure it's not a favorite of yours, if you've ever experienced it.
Speaker 1:Can I just say, aubrey, that I think everyone who has experience in this field has gone through that, and probably you know the ones who work with a lot of students deal with that every year, like you'll always have a family. Even though you communicate it in every way possible, multiple times in person, in writing, over the phone, via text it still does not get through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were mom and I actually spent a significant amount of time responding to a family that reached out and said that they felt that their student had done the entirety of the process by themselves and their own work and not our work, which was not accurate. And you know, we crafted our response because the parents very much were like we feel like you're probably going to try to blame the student, but we don't think that that's fair. And we were like well, can we at least highlight why we think the student maybe should, you know, take some responsibility? Yeah, and so we kind of outlined essentially, like all the different steps that we had taken with the student, all the different ways that we had communicated with the student, and then highlighted the points where the student went rogue and just completely did their own thing. And we cannot control what the student does, Like that's not what we're here to do.
Speaker 2:And you know, if the student decided to submit all of their applications without telling us that they were going to do that and we didn't have a chance to proof them, to finalize the essays, to make sure the resume was finalized and submitted and everything, then that's not our fault. And they were like, well, this was because of miscommunications on your part, and I was like I and so we outlined where we had said in multiple formats like where these things were going to happen and whether or not they chose to take that in Again, we can't be responsible for. So that's kind of my least favorite part. Reminds me that no matter who you are and what you're doing, anytime you receive negative feedback, there are going to be feelings that you feel and like you can't be a stoic stone wall and I was like, thank you, I needed that reminder because I thought that I was just really bad at receiving constructive criticism or destructive criticism, but yeah, Right, that's tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you nailed it and that is a pain point. Like I said, that I think everyone feels, so you're not alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not alone, but empathy and sympathy to anyone who's going through it, cause it's just like it's painful. It's actually caused us to shift our language a lot more, actually, as a result of that. Um, you know, we actually have started to use the phrase like we project manage your college application process instead, because I think that that hangs a lantern on what our work actually is.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the role that you play.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, not that we are responsible for any results, and we've never said that we are, but like they seem to interpret it differently. Like yeah, yes, I completely understand that.
Speaker 1:So, being an English major, can I assume that you're a reader?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love reading. I read so much. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 1:Have you read anything recently about either teenagers or the college process, or anything that has resonated with you or that you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:Sure, I was actually thinking about that a little bit, in case you asked that question, and I wouldn't say that it was necessarily specific to educational consulting, but a book that I read recently that I think has just helped overall, especially as we have started to think about hiring new people and bringing them in and also communicating, you know, with my mom, who is my boss.
Speaker 2:You know, like, how I can be a better communicator because our boss-employee relationship is just more charged because we are also mother and daughter.
Speaker 2:That Fierce Conversations. The book, which is by I looked it up to make sure I got the author's name correct Susan Scott, is a fabulous book because it talks to you a lot about how to construct those conversations, whether they're with employees or, you know, in your personal life, to really get to the heart of a matter and to try to figure out a path forward so that it's actually a dialogue, as opposed to you just saying you did this thing wrong and blah and inventing your feelings. Like you know, and I'd like to think that it has helped me to better navigate my relationships, both with my the people in my company as well as with my clients, as well as with my own personal relationships and I've also been really enjoying, uh, mark Scolaro's uh, you know, sub stack. You know he is obviously so knowledgeable about all things educational consultant because of his time as our CEO for so long that you know. I'm so glad to see that he is still putting all of that wonderful knowledge and experience to good use.
Speaker 1:So 100 percent. I send it to all of my Berkeley students. I'm like. You just need to follow Mark.
Speaker 2:He will not lead you astray.
Speaker 1:That's so cool. So do you want to speak a little bit of? You mentioned your relationship and business relationship and also personal relationship with your mom. How have you navigated that and how and I know that the business relationship may evolve soon Do you want to just share a little bit about what that looks like?
Speaker 2:Sure, you know, I think we really bring very different strengths to the table, which I think has caused us, you know, some initial friction, but then I really think it balanced us out so much better as a result.
Speaker 2:So much better as a result, and I think that it caused us to really be a lot more intentional about reflecting on our relationship as mother and daughter, like, which was a very good relationship, to be very clear, but I think it caused us to work through some you know different parts of our mother-daughter relationship and find a better way forward, which has been really great.
Speaker 2:I think it has helped that I am her daughter, in the sense that I have been able to, like one of the big things that I had to advocate for and I laugh about it now is like I need a lunch break in my day, like that's important, and we were doing these workshops, like to help students fill out applications, and we were doing those in person at that time and you know she would schedule them back to back and because in her way of eating lunch, she would just go into the kitchen, grab something, eat it for five minutes and then go back. And I'm like I, despite all appearances, I'm actually an introverted person and I need a recharge moment like and lunch is one of those moments.
Speaker 2:And I was like I also don't love the idea of eating in front of the students, Cause I just eat slower. This is how I am, it's the thing, and so it was conversations like that, and you know, we also ended up having to have the conversation like cause, when she founded this business, she was an empty nester, so this is just what she did all the time, and so kind of working backwards to kind of find a more work-life balance was a huge thing that I advocated for, and I finally just approached her. I was like so, mom, you remember how you want grandkids and I have, to date to find the husband who will give us the grandkids. I need time, I need some time to be able to do that. And she was like oh, of course, totally Like you know, just kind of finding the nuggets of like oh, this will resonate Like yes, you know, and I really just have to applaud how far she has come, Like you know, she's come up with some really great innovations as a result, Like one of the best things that she ever came up with for us was that from August 1st to November 1st, we only work with seniors, and we make that very clear, very upfront with all of our clients and we remind them and remind them and remind them. So that way we just get to stay focused on that very intense work time, that very intense work time and it has caused us to have more bandwidth, to be better consultants for our students, who are stressed out seniors, but also to just have a little bit of breathing room as well, so we're not constantly task switching between different types of meetings and demands and all of that stuff. And so I have to applaud her in the. You know she's starting to get into that, that mode of like yeah, we should take care of ourselves in this process, and you know all of that.
Speaker 2:And I like to think that the business itself has become what she wished she could have had when she was a stay-at-home mom, and I think that that has become a huge part for me as I think about what that business is going forward. And actually a lot of that has to do with you too, Brooke. Like when you started BGI with our Vivid Vision and you mentioned that family was such a huge, important part of how you guys work your business, it reminded me like, yes, that that is a huge, important part for me as a working mom. And you know, our current employee is also a working mom, but she has three kids, so, like she's even crazier busy than I am and, um, I just have the one and he's enough right now for sure. And um, we actually are just bringing on our our next employee, and she is also a working mom.
Speaker 2:And, like, through the vivid vision that I put together, I was like this is the heart of it for me. I want this to be the company that is possible for a working parent to be able to do, to be an actualized human being beyond, you know, being a parent and and, uh, you know to to maybe find some flexibility. You know cause I I get to be the parent that I want to be because of this job and I love it because of that. And like it's cause I I get to be the parent that I want to be because of this job and I love it because of that, and like it's one of the reasons I chose this job and I want that for other people.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I love that, aubrey, I feel like mic drop, like we can just stop right there, like that was amazing. And I, I will say stuff right there, like that was amazing and I, I will say first of all that your mother is such a lovely person and I've loved getting to know her. We were college tour roommates. Um, I, yes, and I look up to her as a friend and a mentor. Um, you are just as lovely as she is, by the way, but I love that she was thinking about protecting your time and your schedule. So that example that you gave, I feel like that speaks to your values and I feel like if you can harness that and move forward with that, you are well on your way to having that team of people who do, or who are able to have, that work-life balance. So kudos to you and your mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, it's been a journey to get us here, but I'm so happy that we're here and I am. I am so proud of her and and she has been an incredible mentor and has has created such an incredible business that I'm just happy to be a part of and to help continue to grow and improve. So I love that.
Speaker 1:So, before we end, aubrey it's, are there any questions that you wish that I would have asked, or anything else that you'd like to share? Any words of wisdom for new IECs? Experienced IECs?
Speaker 2:I think one of the ones that I was actually interested in you asking potentially was like what habits you know have you kind of formed Like cause? I feel like that's been a really integral piece for me to be a successful IEC that I just didn't know how to articulate early on.
Speaker 1:So maybe that one. Okay, share more about that. I want to know the answer. How do you establish?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I would say one of the things I really struggled with as as a new IEC especially um is finding like, how, like the balance of time, I think, was a huge piece of it, and I would I found myself feeling very stressed out and very overwhelmed because I often just didn't ever make time for myself and then I would feel resentment as a result of that and that would build up and show up in my work in different ways.
Speaker 2:You know whether that was avoidant behavior of like, oh, I don't want to work on my essays right now, or whatever it is. You know, and all of that, and it's been a huge part of my process. I feel like, especially in these last two years, I have been very much trying to be more intentional about creating space for myself in my schedule, and many of other IECs that I've spoken to have actually said that that is crucial to them being good at their job. I know Belinda Wilkerson and I actually talked about that. She was like I do not start before a certain time of the day, and everybody knows that Even the president of IECA makes her time to do that, and I'm like if she can do it then we can all do it.
Speaker 2:So like absolutely Um. But one of the things I started doing is, um, I made sure that like there is a time in the morning Cause most of my clients don't necessarily want to meet in the morning, uh, cause they're going to school or there's work or whatever you know. So I kind of looked at my day to see when the common meeting times were and stuff like that, and I'm still in process of really refining the full schedule of it. But like I don't really start until a certain hour of the day, so I make sure I get my workout in in the morning and, you know, pick up the groceries or whatever it is, get my child to school. I am the morning person in my household, which is crazy town because I am not a morning person. It's a problem, but I am. My husband's best time for coding is in the morning, and so it's like OK, then I will be the morning person and thankfully he can be the evening person to pick up our child and feed him dinner and all of that stuff. So like, working together as a team with my husband has been a huge part of this as well, but I think the other pieces and this was the greatest gift I gave to myself and I try really hard to hold it firm.
Speaker 2:We in our business have I have two days off because I have family. Mom only allows herself one day off. I think she should take more, but you know, that's just where she is and it's two days a week. So I looked at my schedule and I was like, okay, fridays nobody ever wants to meet with me on Friday, so Friday is going to be a day, and then Saturday is just a frequent day that we have to do a lot with our family. So I was like, okay, saturday is going to be my day off and Friday is interesting because it is a day that is just for me and I try very hard to just let it be something for myself, like whether that is, you know, going to the gardening store and you know transforming my yard, and okay.
Speaker 2:Or is it painting day, or is it I sit in front of the TV and binge watch something day, like something that I get to do for myself, that I get to intentionally choose. That is not work related Ideally, that is not me running errands for the family, but it is just for me and I think really, really listening to myself and doing that instead of like constantly making excuses and and and stuff to not let myself have that time has really made a big difference and stuff to not let myself have that time has really made a big difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I love that Aubrey. So two messages take care of yourself and trust yourself.
Speaker 2:Yes, take care of yourself, trust yourself. That is the too long didn't read. Love that for sure, love that.
Speaker 1:Well, Aubrey, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your story.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me today, Brooke. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Business of College Consulting. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did enjoy it, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or share it with a friend in the college consulting industry. I'll see you next week on our new episode and in the meantime, take care.