Pat Kim : Unwritten Law , Sprung Monkey

Revisiting an episode from the Union and Metro podcast.

#punkrock #punkrocker #sandiego #jermaddams #thewasteaways #musichistory #punrockscene #punkrockhistory #podcast #podcaster #Diy #jermwarfareproductions #skateboards #artist #redrumskates #halloween #mars #museum #haunted #oddities #bassguitar #bassplayer #unionandmetropodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

You've reached the Union and Metro Street Podcast, where we discuss the San Diego music scene of the late 80s and all of the 90s. From the shows we worked and the shows we played at Soma Live. Here we go. So we got a special guest with us we haven't seen in a long time. Introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

What's up? I'm Pat Kim. Um go by PK or Pat, you know. Um a former do I Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, former bass player for Sprung Monkey, Unwritten Law, you know. I'm just glad to be here, guys. It's been a really long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

So too long. Like very long time. Yeah, I'm actually trying to remember the last time I saw you. It was you were probably playing in Unwritten Law.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

I actually have a funny story. I've uh do you remember like when I was in Unwritten Law? And I feel like one of the last times I saw you, Jarrett, was when we were at that house we were recording. Oh, yeah, and you brought Tobin before Papa Roach broke.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I think you know, because you were they were in the studio at uh NRG and they were staying at the uh Oak Ridge.

SPEAKER_05 1:16

Yeah, and then I remember you brought Tobin to that house and and did the introduction. We're like Papa Roach, who's that? Yeah, you guys were right in the uh Elv, I believe. Yeah, they put us in that house in Hollywood. Yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Yep, I remember that.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Yeah, that's long ass time ago. Yeah, it was. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Well, I I didn't even realize any of that until I started doing research earlier. Uh-huh. And I was looking at everything that that you did with the unwritten law. Right. I mean, holy shit. You guys were busy.

SPEAKER_05 1:45

Yeah, man. That that that was really a a crazy little moment, man, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:50

So But going back to let's go back to the the very rich, because again, as as Jerry and I were talking earlier, you and John Pebsworth.

SPEAKER_05 1:59

Yeah, so we all know John Pebsworth, uh Bucko Nine singer, you know. So he and I basically went to junior high, junior high school and high school together. Oh, okay. And that's how we formed uh like my first punk band I was ever in was with John. We were called label victims, you know? Yeah. And it was, you know, we're friends then, and then like, you know, it was all about punk rock for us, and then you know, one one night I I I kind of remember it was that like a house party, and we're we're like all of a sudden like, hey, we should start a band, but you know, I wasn't really that was I wasn't even playing an instrument back then, really, you know, and then we kind of did it, and it's kind of kind of the seed was planted from that moment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

And what year was this?

SPEAKER_05 2:43

Oh, so I think I was like 15, 16, so high school, what is that, 90, uh 88 maybe? Well, when I because I graduated 89, so it was like somewhere maybe 87, 88, I think. Okay, you know, that would be the time frame, I think.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

It's just weird how you and John came came down to San Diego.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Well, the thing is, you know, so once again, we went to high school together and we did the label victims thing, but I ended up in San Diego because after high school, I went to San Diego State. So that's the reason why I came to San Diego was to go to state. And John at that time, you know, was like, I ain't got nothing going on in uh LA either. So he uh ended up moving with me. And you know, we got an apartment together. Oh, no way, yeah. Yeah, so we moved to San Diego together. That's how it all started, man.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

That I find that so bizarre because two different bands, completely different styles, yet there's like the the connection you don't you know.

SPEAKER_05 3:47

Even crazier uh on top of that was John was actually uh the first I'm not gonna say official, but like he sang, like you know, when I first joined Sprung Monkey, you know, we we didn't have a singer then, so he kind of was kind of doing some stuff with Sprung in the very beginning, before we even Sprung, you know, even when we uh, you know, because I found the Sprung Monkey guys through the the reader. Oh yeah, the reader. That's how you got into bands, yeah. That's how John found the uh Buck O9 guys. Buckle Nine, yeah. So, you know, I even you know, I'm I've been with John through all his other bands even before Buckle and I he was in a band called Mind's Eye. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

You know I've I remember them because I tried out for them. For Mind's Eye, yeah, but I was too oh crap, I can't remember now. But they didn't like me for whatever I think I was too punk for the band. I think yeah, because they were like a little more m on the metal side of the thing. Yeah, and I was trying to do my best wadi impressions that I ended up doing and and pour and everything else, but yeah. So then when John ended up, you know, I booked him mind's eye. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, dude, what the wait a minute, I was supposed to be in that fucking band. I I have some pictures, actually, but you know, just that is just that's it's so cra I'm I'm so just bewildered by how this town came out of literally nothing, yeah, and just grew because certain players. So let's jump right into so Sprung Monkey, how did Sprung start to come together?

SPEAKER_05 5:23

So yeah, so basically, you know, I was going to state and I wanted to play music still, you know. I need my little outlet for that. So I found an ad in the reader, and so I went and kind of tried, I just basically tried out. So when I met um those guys, it was it was just Mike Summers, Frank Melendez, and uh there was a drummer. I I can't remember the the drummer's name. He was just and they were just jamming, you know. So that's how I initially and so I tried out and then we were just jamming for a while. Then we ended up uh getting a new drummer. The drummer part's funny too because we were looking for a drummer and Ernie hit uh called, you know. But at that time when Ernie called, we thought we tried out this other drummer and we thought he was gonna be it. So I actually was like, yo, Ernie, uh to Ernie, I was like, Yeah, man, sorry, we uh actually had found a drummer, you know. And I actually threw away his number in the trash. And then, you know, realized that uh the guy we were jamming with just wasn't really cutting it, you know. So I actually dug out that that number and called Ernie.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

It's weird, it's weird how that usually works out. Yeah. Because I've heard other stories from other bands, the same thing. Yeah. I even think what I just saw that documentary on Alanis Morris said, like, I guess they're the bass player, they didn't he was an accident. They didn't like want him really because he was more a jazz type type guy. And now now he's the bass player for Jane's addiction. So it's just weird how that works out with a lot of bands. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah, it's it's weird though when you're looking at it going, okay, so this person is totally into it up until a certain age. And at this point, everyone was kind of that age. Yeah. You know, when you're late teen into early twenties, that's when a lot of people decide, okay, well, I'm gonna go and chase tail, or I want to be a musician. So that was kind of the cutting point, and that's what I always had to deal with in the beginning book in Soma was trying to find bands that were gonna stick around. Yeah. But you know, there's certain people that were just they seem like from the womb they were meant to be a musician, they just hadn't found the right people to actually shine. Yep. So it's kind of kismit in a way. I still personally have not found those people.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

What's it's always hard to do? Yeah, it's always hard to find uh a family. Yeah. So that's you know, a band is, you know, it's gonna be tight and last forever. Yeah, right. Everybody's gotta get along, and there's so many different personalities, it just uh doesn't always work out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

But the but it's the idea if you think about it, you know, the idea, okay. So I throw out this phone number. You know, when I throw something out, it's it's thrown out. Yeah. And then, like, especially when it comes to do looking for paperwork, looking through paperwork, and I'll find something. Oh wow, you know, this could have been who knows at this point. But so Ernie gets in because you luckily knew where his number was. Yeah, luckily it wasn't trash day, you know.

SPEAKER_05 8:26

Yeah, see? You know, he came out, and then you know, that guy's just a beast. Oh, yeah. Second the second he hit, and we're like, Oh, this guy's the guy. Oh yeah. Yeah, he is his style for days. Yeah, he's he's a machine, dude.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah. So do you remember the first time you played uh Union Street? Yes, because that was the dungeon, right? Yeah, was it the dungeon? The first time you guys played?

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Yeah, the dungeon. God, I don't even remember the first show.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

You remember the year?

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Oh, dude, let me see.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

Not really because okay, when I first joined Sprung, we weren't even called Sprung then, we were actually called Love Slug. Love Slug. Love Slug, and we actually the first one of the first shows we played was the the OG Casboth. You know the one that you was the Velvet After? Yeah, hallway. Yeah, and just right it's actually right. I wasn't even 21 yet, so I had to sit outside. You know, I can't even go inside, you know. It's like so, and we were called Love Slug then, and then you know who actually took us under the wings was uh Psychotic Waltz. Oh, okay, of all bands, you know. They were kind of the ones that got us our first shows and stuff, you know? Yeah, and kind of took us under, like, you know, helped us out a bit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

That would yeah, that would be um what's his name? Um Norm Norm McDonald. Blue Mini. Blue Mini, yeah, Blue Mini Records.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Um and Buddy. Buddy, yeah, he's a singer. And then uh because I lived in the same complex as um the guitarist in the wheelchair.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Oh, and then Dan Rock, the other guitarist, you know, Dan Rock was a guitar.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it was weird when when I lived out there for well, when I started booking shows at Soma, I was living in Santee. Yeah. So that's kind of where that whole thing started for me. Yeah. But yeah, then they um so they were psychotic Waltz after right. There were first Oslon. Oslon, I believe.

SPEAKER_05 10:21

And then when I met them, they were already psychotic Walt. Okay. Yeah. So that would be probably 90. Yeah, because I I think one of our very so I remember once again, we did a show at that original Cows Bah under Love Slug, and then I think one of our first shows as sprung, one of the first was opening for Psychotic Walton. I can't remember, it was someplace up in El Cahon. It's like a hall kind of thing. And that's like, you know, we came out wearing masks and doing, you know, kind of crazy stuff, you know. And uh I can't remember what that was.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Was it a VFW hall?

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Yeah, I think it was a VFW hall kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Oh, and it was Norman Legio. Yeah, Norman Legio. Okay. Um Yeah, I kind of remember that place because it's that was back in the days where you would still rent out a hall. Yeah. And there was a few that were kind of okay with doing that. Yeah, yeah. Because the the punk rock skinhead thing was still it had mellowed out a lot by that point.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So so was this 89 or 90?

SPEAKER_05 11:24

I moved well, I graduated in 89. I moved there had to be I'm gonna say around maybe 90. 90. Yeah, because I moved up here right out of high school and I graduated in 89.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So I moved out here in 90 because of being in the Navy, yeah. Stationed at Myrmar. So I was out here in '90. And then I I started going to shows at Union around 91. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:50

But yeah, the first Soma gig was in that dungeon. I remember that. And do you remember the band? No, I that first one not really, but one of the maybe second or third time we did it, I remember we played with face to face down there. Okay. Yeah, face to face was in that dungeon. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah, and unfortunately I had to start everyone down there. Yeah, no, it was awesome though.

SPEAKER_05 12:16

And it was like a big tree, you know, like when you graduated upstairs, that was huge, you know? Yeah. But I really that dungeon was dope. I had so many good.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

It seems like you guys graduated fairly quick.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

You know what's crazy is I never even got to see a dungeon show. Oh, really? Yeah, I always saw the main stage stuff, so I never saw a dungeon. Oh. I didn't get that experience. Damn it, pisses me off.

SPEAKER_05 12:38

That's like a fire hazard now if I think about it, man.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Because egress, there's no there was no exits, right? You had to go back up the stairs.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yeah, you're there was there were two exits, but no one knew about the the second one.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

So the one that went out to the stranger.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

The crazy thing is there were two entrances to it, but it was in the back, so you know, have the main hallway coming in and the two meat lockers, the one green room. The soundboard's kind of offset a little bit, but behind that you can go around, and that was another make out spot or whatever. That little tiny dressing room. That little dress. Yeah, the little that um Stone Temple Pilot shot a video in. Yep, I remember that. Yeah, they had us jumping around like jumping beans. It was the most oh my, I was so embarrassed. But back behind the soundboard at at the far wall was you can get around, you can come up a back back way. And I only knew because I spent literally my entire twenties when that building was there. Yep. And I had to clean the place. Yeah. And I would even forget about it. But it definitely had a crazy vibe. So coming upstairs, you know, you get into the Thunderdome.

SPEAKER_05 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

As a w video that we were watching earlier, which was I believe 91. So you're playing the dungeon, and then we get you upstairs because remember the criteria you had to bring in a certain amount of people, and you went from me to okay, now Len's getting involved. You're you're you're done with him. You're you're graduating. Yeah. That's cool. Do you remember what first show it was or no?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

So you don't know who you played with on the main stage?

SPEAKER_05 14:14

Not really. Or what you there's just been so many, you know. Oh, yeah. Like back then too, some of the the those crazy lineups you had like Rage, Tool, like Quicksand all on one bill kind of thing. I remember some shit you can't ever get anymore, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

It was um Rage and Tool did their they just got signed.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Those bands were opening. Yeah. Yeah. Which is which is insane. About it, you know. Yeah, it's and and the scene will never be the same. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

That was that was uh lightning in a bottle kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yeah. No YouTube back then, no cell phones, none of that.

SPEAKER_05 14:50

Yeah, that's why just coming in here and seeing that, I was like, what the hell? Because that was done on like uh video, you know. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

That that's how any of my stuff is, is on videotape primarily. And I I have them strategic. I have a video tape player here and upstairs. We have a D DVD player, but I still haven't figured out how to use that thing yet. Luckily, I have a 21-year-old, so I just have her do it.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

But so the the main stage shows, once it started got up to mainstage, gonna hear what was your favorite show up there? What still is the one that like is like, holy crap, I cannot believe I played this show.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Well, I mean, like I like I said, I can't quite remember who we were playing with, but I remember that first time just being up there, graduating up there, and like playing in the big room, like you said, Thunderdome, and it's just packed, you know. That's kind of like whoa, going from dungeon, it's kind of a big jump, you know?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Oh, yeah, really 150 people maybe to a thousand. Yeah. So and surrounded.

SPEAKER_05 15:57

Yeah, and so it was kind of like uh it's kind of it was very trippy, you know. Yeah, so yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

I get once again, my my memory's shot for a lot of that stuff, you know, but it was just well, it just is too many things to remember. I mean, especially being in multiple bands and then all the places you've played. Yeah, it's hard to remember certain certain dates.

SPEAKER_05 16:20

Yeah, and especially because we played it so much over there, you know. Oh yeah. It was like we we were that was like second home for us, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

So did C D release shows and I'm trying to think of some of the ones that like really stuck out. The main thing that I I remember is you know, whenever we had you guys play, it was like a given that it was just gonna be an exceptional show.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

So what other bands locally or you know, bigger touring bands were some of the ones that well back then because we would play with uh you know like House of Suffering, you know, Unwritten Law too, because we played with Unwritten Law all the time then, you know, before I was in in that band, you know, all the all those local bands, you know, it's psychotic, um who else around back then? Neighbor. Remember the neighbors? Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. All that. It's so it's just awesome.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

It's it really, I mean, it's funny to say this now because I'm still racking my brain every time I'm doing any of these podcasts, but there were so many bands in San Diego. So many.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Well, you guys even played with Buck O9. Yeah, Buck O9. So that's and again, that's the Soma thing where you mix it. You don't have to be a certain style, everybody's yeah, different bands, different styles, which is good because it exposes uh more people to the other sounds. Yep. So that's a something that a lot of people didn't do. And actually, when I when I started doing Soma SD, I kind of wanted to keep it to where the bands were when I started was booking bands, I kind of tried to keep them the same style because I know a lot of people were getting pissed off. We don't want to see those bands, or or they wouldn't show up, or they a lot of people would leave. But I think back in the early 90s and the late 80s, I think more people were excited to come and see other types of characters.

SPEAKER_05 18:11

Yeah, because that was the common ground place where you could actually go see a show, and it's kind of before then, you know, like after a couple years into the scene, you know, there's like clicks of play like the Casball bands, Soma bands, you know, everyone like you know, because like Rocket and all those guys were had their kind of and they all stuck to the same scene, the same style, and they were always 21 and up.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Yeah, where Soma was always the all age ages. So yeah, we were the daycare, the other the other places are the drinkers, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

But the the amount of bands that played the bars was completely different. It was it was such a it was clicky. Yeah, it's called for what it was.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

It was clicky. Well, and not only that, you didn't get the crowd that you would get at that Soma, because Soma was much bigger than the Casball, yeah, uh the Shea, any you know, Soul Kitchen, whatever those places are way small. And they used to complain about Soma um taking their scene or their crowds or whatever. I'm like, no, you know, and even you know, like you would explain with Lynn saying, no, go play, go play those places, it gives you a chance to kind of get a following and then come over here where there's gonna be a bigger, a bigger crowd, yeah, where your audience can actually see you.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

And and the formula is completely different because, like I've said before, is when I started booking shows, it was just about the scene. I was trying to create a scene, right? So luckily we were able to carry that on for quite a while to bring enough diversity, and you I would look at everything from the style of music, the personalities, and try not to put something to where you have someone that's gonna be complaining from day one. Right. If they're like, Oh, we don't want to play with those fucking bands, well, then don't play with these fucking bands. I'll I'll get someone else. Yeah, but there was so much camaraderie just in building the scene because we didn't really have one unless you went to the bar. And realistically, if you're in a bar and you're that young, you kind of felt out of place anyways. And it wasn't about trying to establish musicians. Should we give them a little taste of the game? We need to get sprung here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The bass down. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

I'm a bass player as well, so I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

It was the 90s. Wait, this was from the 90s, but that was 95.

SPEAKER_05 21:03

I think that's the actual record, though, because we we did that as a demo. We had a bleeding demo before we actually situation life was actually the first album album, like a full, you know, that wasn't a demo today.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

So I feel like that was a very good idea.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

And then uh follow up to world. And uh who did you guys get signed to?

SPEAKER_05 22:26

That one was on Surf Dog Records, which is Mark Kaplan. He uh he manages like Bryant's I think he did Bullet Boys. Oh Brian, I think he still manages like Bryant Setzer. Oh yeah. Surf Dog Records. I think he even put out like an album from uh Jason Newstead, like after like after he left Metallica? Yeah, Echo Brain or something like that. Yeah, and I I feel like he had something to do with that too.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

So how many albums did you do with Sprong?

SPEAKER_05 22:57

I did Situation Live, Swirl, too.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Okay. I mean, so we're just gonna jump right in it. What made you leave?

SPEAKER_05 23:07

Uh what oh you know what it was? Okay, I got I was I was actually married at back then, you know, and uh I think what happened was I got a divorce and I just kind of was like, I want to get out of San Diego kind of thing. So I quit that and then I ended up moving to San Francisco. Oh wow. Yeah, I was I was just like F this town, you know, like so uh I moved to San Francisco and this is where things kind of take that next road, you know, you know, because I moved up there, I was working at a just at a record store called Streetlight Records up there. And then somehow I get this phone call at work, and it's my friend uh it was actually Scott Russo.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Oh really?

SPEAKER_05 23:55

Yeah, he called me. So he got my number through a mutual friend Gen Zit. Oh yeah. Yeah. So she uh gave him my number because they were looking for a bass player. So he actually called me and was like, um, hey, are you are you would you be interested in like trying out, you know? And yeah, and it's funny because I had just moved to San Francisco, you know, it's like maybe a almost less than even less than a year, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Oh, okay. And then enough time to get settled in fantasy.

SPEAKER_05 24:23

Yeah, I was doing my I like I was doing my thing there, and then uh he because they just recorded the black album.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Yeah, record the black album. It was already done. Yeah, John Bell didn't want to tour, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:32

Is that what well the thing the black album John Bell didn't even record on the black album? They got uh Micah from Pivot. Pivot, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, so yeah, so yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:43

Yeah, yeah. So he called me up, and I was at first I was like, look, we always played with Unwritten Law, you know, when I was in Sprung. Always been cool, you know? Yeah, but Unwritten Law honestly was not uh it wasn't what I wanted to play. I wanted to play more harder and more I'm heavier, I like metal and stuff, yeah. Heavy punk, yeah. Like, you know, I want to do some like metal punk kind of stuff, you know, thrash stuff. And um so I was kind of like uh I don't I'm not sure. He's all like, well, we just record this album, let me just send it to you. Okay, and I was like, okay, no problem. I get it, and I the second I pressed play, I was like, it they just went to another level, you know, from uh what was Blue Room to that was such a huge jump. And I was like, I listened to the whole album like twice all the way through. It was because it I was hooked. I was like, this album is fucking good. Yeah, a lot of the songs on there were really good. Dude, it like that's a solid album to this day. That's my favorite one, and I'm not even playing on it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:46

So that's after I heard it, I was like, holy shit, they actually took it to another level. Yeah, and so instantly I was like, Yep, I'll do it. Yeah, so I uh flew back, flew down and and tried out and and made it, and then packed my shit and moved back down and came back, you know, and that's how it all kind of went from there, you know. And then it was just like accelerated mode because those guys have already been like signed to Sony and now they're on Innerscope, you know. I mean, even when I was in it, we went to lava. That that band's crazy because I think pretty much been on practically almost every major label. Who gets a chance like that, you know? Epic to Inner Scope to Atlantic, you know, it's just like what?

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah, that's really unheard of.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, really unheard of it for someone with ever a different label every time you put something out. Yeah. That's just yeah, that's unheard of. Usually you're you're locked into yeah, like a five record deal or something with one label.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

And if you don't make it on the on the major, you're back down to independent, you know, doing but yeah, man. Yeah, they shelf you.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yeah, yeah, and usually with the reputation of tax write-off.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

But man, we kept getting so they kept it DIY in a sense, but by utilizing the bigger labels to get the music out.

SPEAKER_05 27:05

Yeah, we kept getting these second chances, third chances, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yeah, and then uh that's like when we did the podcast with uh Rob, he forgot a lot of stuff. Like, like when I I mentioned, yeah, you guys did uh you did the teenage suicide video at Metro. We the it was open. I mean, it was it wasn't a during a show, it was during the day. I was there, and uh Bill Silva paid me to be there to have it open for you guys, and you guys were like performing on the stage, and damn, I don't remember Scott's brother. Scott's brother was there, he was in the video.

SPEAKER_05 27:38

Yeah, he's in the video knocking over a hot dog off the room.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

And then see, Rob and Rob didn't remember them that you guys shot that there. I don't remember that either. That's weird. And I I had to send Rob pictures of it because I took pictures when you guys were on the stage. There's a couple people in the crowd, but it wasn't like it wasn't like a regular show. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was during the day, and it was it was only you guys were there maybe four or five hours. So and that was wasn't that Taylor Steele that did that?

SPEAKER_05 28:03

Taylor Steele did that video, I believe. He also did uh Kelly Sky, I think, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

And then I had to bring up to uh Rob too. He forgot. I'm like, I'm in your holiday video, breakdancing.

SPEAKER_05 28:15

Yes, you are. I know that for sure. That's funny. Rob is actually I don't my my memory is shot, but he's usually really good with remembering all that stuff. That's funny. He forgot some of that.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah, he forgot a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

He knows all the the clubs we played at. I'm like, people'd be like, You remember that club there? I'm like, no, until I go there and see it. And then I'm like, oh yeah, this place, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah, see, we've been we've been trying to get somebody from the reader to get us all the the like from the ads for the shows that were coming up, like all the way from the union days and Metro, so we could go back and and actually find out the year, yeah, and the dates, and then who was on the shows with with anybody that was on the main stage or whatever, even the side stage shows that we we would have a little more history, and uh nobody's been able to come up with it.

SPEAKER_05 29:04

So and and like when you look at those old flyers and shit, like I've seen some of the old ones and like like the especially like those New Year's Eve shows, remember? Yeah, yeah. But seeing like the lineup thing and it's like blink, like opening, like being so low, and you know, like I'm in sprung, and we're like over that, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

And that and that's the way it was with Unrent Law was above blink for a long time. Where they would didn't I think you guys did tours together, right? Yeah, where they they the they were the openers.

SPEAKER_05 29:31

Yeah, I did uh I remember doing uh a tour with seven seconds. I was in Sprung and it was seven seconds and blink and blink was opening up the the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

That's before the 182 it was added.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Well that that's one of these days we'll get someone from the band to come in because I've I've got stories from the crap that I went through booking them in the beginning. Out of I mean, the most I would say opposition against any band that I booked was Blink ever was Blink. I mean, like straight up, what are you, a fucking idiot? Trust me. I see something in these guys. And this is from Len. Yeah, you know, the grand emperor. Oh no, you don't know what the fuck you're doing. We're still open, aren't we? And then, you know, they just shot. But that being said, two things that I started thinking about is with the the bands in the past, when we went in the transition and we did um the Scottish Rights Center. Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember that one. That one with uh Ghoul Spoon. The Ghoul Spoon CD release party because Gulspoon was another one that was up there. See, there's again when we look at all the talent in this town, everything from Lucy's for Coat, yeah, you guys and and prospectively both bands, you know, not bragging or anything, Pat. I mean, come on. But you know, Gulspoon, there's there's so many bands that just the the talent coming out of this town was insane. Yeah, absolutely insane. And to be able to remember them all, because I used somewhere, it's either up in the closet or in one of the coffins somewhere in the house. I probably still have my books from because I wrote down everything. I have notes of how many people each band brought in. Wow. So when I go and look back to November of 89, because prior to that Len had done, well, it was kind of a dance club.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

A failing dance club, but so they switched it up. I was brought in as an artist, and then I was like, hey, I know the ninth, and short-lived. So I was, you know, that's where if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't never got my foot in the door. Right. So my memory is completely shot. There's bands that I I see a flyer and I go, Who the fuck is that? Well, I must have butched them booked them because it's you know the dungeon. But if we could have that whole, or if I could find my books, we would have so much information, it would just be mind-blowing because we were doing every weekend.

SPEAKER_05 32:06

Yeah, every single weekend was a a rad show, you know. That was my weekend was going to the soma, even whether I was playing or not, you know, I was doing the Soma.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

We're we're actually trying to uh get a bunch of people that um documented a lot of stuff back then, and we're we're thinking of putting a book out. That'd be amazing.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

That'd be super amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Kind of like a coffee table book with all the flyers, a bunch of photos, um, you know, and then stories from people like from the podcast type thing. And that's that's kind of why we're doing it too, to you know, bring back those memories. Yeah, yeah. So because yeah, we are in our we're in our 50s, we're forgetting shit. Yeah. So this is like what helps bring those memories back.

SPEAKER_05 32:46

Yeah, absolutely. Like right now, it's already I'm like, whoa. When you just said the ninth and short-lived, I couldn't even remember when you said what bands, and then all of a sudden you said, I'm like, of course, short lived. We did a split seven inch with short-lived, and the ninth was a huge I don't even I don't even remember that. I think it was a it was a short-lived is that the victory garden one? The something road or something?

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Road to nowhere.

SPEAKER_05 33:11

I think is that it? I probably have seven inch I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Because you know, when when I started this whole thing, it started with the cave. And what's funny is so I was talking with um what's his face, Sam, the drummer for Short Lived, and I had a short-lived band. We did one album called Deosaurus. And um we were talking, and he brought up he goes, Remember at the cave, and frickin' Eddie would show up, and Aura had you watch the door, and you wouldn't let him in, and he would ask you for beers and cigarettes, and you were like, Oh no, fuck you. No, R doesn't want you in, fuck you. You know, what Eddie's talking about, right? Eddie Vetter. Oh shit. From Pearl Pearl Jelly Green Jelly, Pearl Jam. Yeah. Sorry, Eddie. You you that Eddie. Yeah. And I have more stories about that, but I don't remember that. I just remember some Eddie guy trying to get in here. I was like, no, you know, make them pay. We don't want him in here. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

And now he's looking at all of us going. Did you know he used to work for Bill Silva? He used to do production work. Eddie V. He was a runner and stuff, yeah. Wow. Yep. Before he before he hit it one, he he had his band Bad Radio in San Diego, and then went up to San Diego.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

I never booked them either. Or did I book them? I might have. You know what? Now that I think I might have booked Bad Radio. I I don't remember. But so you know, that's the origin. So finding out my whole thing is I kept telling Jerry as I'm getting excited about this for a while about talking with you, is I'd like to know people's history and how it all came up because I don't I don't remember who I called, who I annoyed the hell out of whenever I call. Hey, this is germ from Soma. Is uh blah blah blah there. Can you play the show with you know? I had my whole speech. I would call my mom. Hey mom, this is germ from Soma. You know, and it just the memories, but the I like the history stuff. Yeah. Because I was just, you know, I always had to put on I still have the beanie. Where's it? It's over there with my little exploited patch on it. That little blue beanie I was on the side of the stage. I'd have to meet everyone, check you all in, give your stamp, and yeah, just get bum you out every time because we'd tried over on the guest list.

SPEAKER_05 35:24

You're like, you motherfuckers. Was it like that for Sprung or just unwritten law? Both. Oh, it was both. Yeah, of course. You know, you always push in that, but you know, you always cool about it. Where did uh what what area did Sprung come out of? They're the Summers brothers are from the San Carlos area. Ernie's from El Cajon, so you know that you know because yeah, you definitely had your Powway scene. Well, I didn't I was like the Powway scene to me, I had no I had no clue about until I joined Unwritten Law, you know. I knew they were from Poway, but yeah that was.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

That scene was crazy. That was a crazy scene. Yeah, I think that was the craziest scene out of any of the areas for San Diego PK, you know.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

And the um East County scene, because again, you know, I was I was out there and short-lived had their house in in um in uh El Chow. Well, the apartment in in El Cahone. Um, but we all starred at Wienersnitzel in Santee. So Chris Fields was there, yeah, Chris Fields, Sam, Jeff, Ray Cam, Dennis, um, myself. Um and then I'm trying to think there was another cat out there, Lenny, that was starting a band that I was gonna try out for, but Mine's Eye was out. Yeah, they're El Cahon. Yeah, or no, that weren't they?

SPEAKER_05 36:42

Santee.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

The place I went to was in Santee. I think I I either skated there or you know, and even back then in Santee, uh punk rocker riding around on a skateboard in 80, that must have been 88. Or maybe it was 89, early 89 when I tried out for them. But it was different. I didn't know anything really about Poway except for Puzzle Box, um, Psychic Dykes, which Psychic Dykes and Puzzle Box were another two of the original bands. But then there is college area, you got struggle.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

I remember struggle.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Um, struggle was part of that the hardcore scene with Amenity, yeah, um, eventually House of Suffering. But that's the chula, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

Everyone had their site, like Chula Vista had Amenity, House of Suffering, all the cats. POD. POD, all those cats.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

That was another they're another band that you guys play with quite often.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Wasn't it Green Box too?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

I'm trying to remember Green Box because of the the electrical green boxes.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

And then uh Oh my god, I forgot about them. What uh what about uh daddy long legs?

SPEAKER_05 37:45

Were they you know what? I'm sorry. That's another band that really it's I think actually they helped us out before Psychotic Waltz. That's they really we opened it uh for Daddy Long Legs at the Casba. Now you see now it's coming back. It's actually Daddy Long Legs are the are the ones that helped us first, and then it's been yeah, sticks, you know, yeah, for sure. It's just funny and you start throwing names up. Yeah, I'm like daddy, and like now it's like all these bands are coming now. You're saying like dance macabre remembers.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

You still see Mike every every now and again. He's riding bikes and dude.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

I just heard like remember like there was a rumor like a year, like years ago, like I put that out because one of the kids that worked said he died in the kids that worked for uh Metro, one of the cleanup kids who was like 16, 15 back then, he told me that he OD'd. Uh-huh. And uh so I'm like, damn, really? And I you know, yeah, Mike was like straight edge for a long time. Yeah, yeah. And uh because it he did have a bad, a bad falling out with a marriage, and he kind of went downhill from that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

So but he's he's got I've I seen him. I've rode by he was down at the bike shop down there, and I come hauling ass by because I'd seen the picture of his ink, and he's wearing you know the the tank top. That's the one picture with uh Brad took. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With Brad. So I'm skating down, freaking hauling ass, and I look over and I see this guy, and you know, short, stocky, like you know, he was big, freaking brick house, you know. I see him, what the f and he yells out, what the fuck? Of like like a little kid, like I'm freaking 18 again, freaking my floor and I run over to him, give him a hug. What's up, man? Yeah, and um, so he's he's still around, but yeah, so Dance Macab, I mean, they played probably less than any band that that Iver did there. But they're you know, seminal San Diego band.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

I mean and was it wasn't presence on stage.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Yeah, Death From Above, yeah. His presence on stage was fucking incredible. He had a big voice, you know.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

Oh, yeah. And they were I remember dance macabre because they were kind of rad looking. They were always black, they were like almost like remind me of dance, you know, they were always in black and yeah, but kind of like the dancing, yeah, kind of that vibe, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

It was kind of dancing. Mike and his frickin' long ass Viking hair and and his voice just oh and a big voice. But that sort of you know, again, just shows the diversity of the bands that we had, and we can have them play, you know, with there's just so many bands that shouldn't have made like a good bill back then, and people still try to do it with all these festivals, but back then it was it was different because someone that liked Yeah, if you if you think about it, Union Street was the first Coachella, yeah. Yeah, rage and tool. Remember when we would have the um the SummerSlams? Yes, and God what that was we joked about it being a wrestling thing. I remember talking with Len about it trying to come up with the name and SummerSlam. That sounds so freaking wrestling. What people gonna jump from that this isn't iguanas, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

You know? Well, that was that I was gonna bring up too. Um when you when you brought up near the New Year's Eve shows, how many shows did you the New Year's stuff? Yeah, how many did you play?

SPEAKER_05 41:19

Man, uh played that too.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about with the the sports arena, the so many years shows. Do you remember how many of them?

SPEAKER_05 41:28

We've done a few, especially since I think we because Sprung uh I I got to do it with both bands, I believe. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, if my memory serves correct, you know. So definitely a few of those.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah, I think uh 94 was the first one.

SPEAKER_05 41:44

Yeah, you had like no doubt was on those.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yeah, that was 90 95 to 96. That was my first one that I worked. God, I don't I don't I don't remember. I just I do I did I did every New Year's Eve show except for the first one. So when I quit SD, they didn't do any more New Year's Eve shows after that. And I don't know why. Um maybe just because of the union stuff with the sports arena and the money. Yeah, it was a lot of money.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

The union guys made it impossible. I mean, that for me, those were those were horrible for us. They ended up being we worked 24 hours. 24 hour days. Holy shit. Um but I think the first one wasn't make a lot of money either. Oh no, I didn't I didn't make shit. Yeah. I didn't. That's why I drank Bud Light because I couldn't afford Guinness.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And those shows were stressful, you know, trying to get everybody on time, make sure everybody was showing up and trying to get people in their areas on the stages.

SPEAKER_05 42:38

Well, you gotta think about those were pretty big events, and it's just like it's just you guys, really. You know, it's not like you had a big no like live nation kind of you know, a staff. Like you guys have pros. Yeah, and you get it's you guys doing all this, but booking these shoes, like you're booking sports arena and stuff, you know, putting these shows together.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

And then not only that, not only that, we're doing six-band shows as it was where most venues weren't doing that, right? It was like three bands.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yeah, but it was again, I I can't stop and emphasize because it needs to be known that the bands in San Diego at that time made it, even though you know I realize it at near the end I got really pissy about everything. But if there wasn't the camaraderie and the whole respect for the scene, we wouldn't have been able to do anything. Yeah, absolutely. So, whatever you know, whatever Jerry and I were able to do with our parts of running the club, it was it was the bands. And it you guys brought in the people. Back then, you guys would promote the hell out of things. People were putting out records. Yeah. I mean, actual records and CDs and cassettes.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Cassettes. I mean, what think about it? It wasn't really CDs, they were putting out cassettes. Yeah, nobody was nobody was burning C.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

I've never done any vinyl, so personally, I I want to do uh just that was a Two-song.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

It was the sevens and the cassettes. So you had the little seven inches and the and the cassette tapes. Or like maybe the four-song demo on a cassette tape. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:10

Yeah, because it's what I would I would get, and that's how my collection got so big. I had I remember at one point I ended up throwing out four milk crates, milk crates of demo tapes from everyone from Jesus Jones to local stuff. Because I had to move from OB. I used to live up at the house up there, and I've been at this house for almost 20 years now. Now those are all worth big money. 75 bucks a month. Well, it's just it's not only that, it's just got I mean just so many bands that you'll never hear about anymore. Fishing Rod from down in Chula Vista. Early sprung monkey stuff. So going back to that, where was the first studio that you guys went into to record?

SPEAKER_05 44:51

Double time.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah. Everyone went to double time, Elkahon.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

You know, all the Jeff, right? Jeff, Jeff Forrest. Jeff Forrest. Yeah, man. Is Double Time still around?

SPEAKER_01 45:01

I don't think it is. I haven't heard anybody recording there. I'm so out of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

I wouldn't know if Jeff was my neighbor, I wouldn't even probably recognize him. Or did he pass? I could swear he's no idea. Let's not kill him off if he's.

SPEAKER_05 45:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, Double Time, you know, everyone recorded there. Yeah, legendary. Yeah. So and after that, though, our first the Situation Life album we recorded at Big Fish over in what is that? What is it? Big Fish? Like it's North County somewhere. Was it Escondido? I think Big Fish.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

I'm trying to think of who would have that. Do you remember who's running it?

SPEAKER_05 45:47

Um Big Fish was uh God damn, I can't remember who owned the name of the guy who owned it.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Um was it someone that also did shows? Because there was a couple cats from up there. There was someone from uh I believe Escondido or Oceanside. Um well JD from Industrial String Jewelry. He was I believe he was in Puzzle Box.

SPEAKER_05 46:12

Puzzle box.

SPEAKER_02 46:13

Um, but he swear that they had a studio for a while, but there was someone that did a documentary on the circle jerks. Big fish is out of Santa Fe. Santa Fe? What is it?

SPEAKER_05 46:24

So oh his name is Paul Warhoff. Rancho Santa Fe. I'm sorry. Rancho Santa Santa Fe. Paul War off. It because I remember Oh, I remember. So he had a nice house and he had this nice studio that was you know built on his property. Yes. That's where we recorded that. Paul War off. Yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

What year was that? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_05 46:42

That was sometime in the 90s when just maybe that was Situation Life was 95 or 96.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Somewhere around there.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Oh, so that was getting that's getting closer to bailing out of town and unwritten law days.

unknown 46:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Would that be the last one?

SPEAKER_05 46:59

Well, no, no, but no, no, because I did we did do Swirl. We did Swirl in Lake Havasu. You know who produced Swirl, which is crazy, is Roy Thomas Baker, who did Queen, Night at the Opera, all those bands, like Queen. How the hell did you get him? Because Mark Kaplan, Surf Dog Records, was his manager. And he was looking for a project to do because he he wasn't doing any, you know, anything at the time.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

Queen wasn't around anymore. And Kurt Sprung and said, Oh shit, I gotta get behind this.

SPEAKER_05 47:32

We ended up uh I'm not sure if he really wanted to do it, but you know, he once again, you know, Mark Kaplan was his manager, and we were on his so he kind of just produced this album. And so we we went out to Lake Havisu for a few weeks and lived out there on his by his studio. But it's crazy, like that guy, man. He he's done you look up Roy Thomas Baker, and you and he's like done everything back in back in the day.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:01

Yeah. But that's what I mean Rhapsody. Come on, man.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Yeah, it's yeah. That's legitimately insane. Yeah, to be completely honest. Yeah. But that's one of those you actually went there, stay there, the band, and yeah, we recorded there and he did everything, and then yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

That's crazy. Because I've never I've never, you know, I don't really like touring. I don't like being away from that. I I prefer to be at the home base and deal with things. That's why I never toured with any bands really until I was doing Sin 77 than when we do little one-offs. But so that being said, tours. What about tours? How many tours?

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Let me let me chime in here real quick. Uh, Double Time is still around and Jeff Force is still around. They're still in business. So I don't know. I don't want to put any rumors out there. Well, I mean, he's he's legendary, so here.

SPEAKER_05 48:53

Everyone recorded there.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

You know, literally. Everybody.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yes. I guess uh cattle decapitation just recorded there recently. What? 2021. Oh wow. Wow. So that's awesome. Still still doing it.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

When you're you know at the top of your game, I would love to record with them. But you know, first I gotta get a band together. But I I think I've got a project, but we're not here. I want to hear about touring.

SPEAKER_05 49:20

Touring, that was, yeah. Touring was, you know, what we did some in in sprung, but like once I got into unrent law, that was uh that's basically that's real deal. Like, you know, I was you guys would go out for like three to six months, right? Man, we'd be gone for like nine months out of the year at one point. And you're and you were doing worldwide. Yeah, we pretty much I mean, all over the US for sure. Australia. Australia, I've been to Australia like 22 times. But you could look at my passport because we'd hit Australia at least once a year, sometimes twice in a year. You guys were big there. Yeah, we I have a gold record from Australia for no way. Congratulations. Thanks. I mean, it's by population though. Like what gold here is 500,000. I think gold in Australia is like 35,000. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

And so it's that's you know that that album never went platinum, or none of the UL stuff went platinum?

SPEAKER_05 50:15

No, not none of I don't even have any like gold record here from here, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Maybe if you put all the records accumulated, maybe, but you know, I thought UL did at least one platinum record.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

No, we were always so goddamn close, you know. Yeah, and it's funny because like I I think about all like the bands we toured with, and it was always it's like if you look at if I always said if you opened up for unwritten law, you are gonna make it. You know, it's like Blink used to open up for Unwritten Law, they blew up, Incubus used to open up for Unwritten Law, they fucking blew up. Like even like I remember doing shows where um Deftones and Corn opened up when I was in Sprung, kind of thing, you know? Yeah, and yeah, they'd come here and they'd open up for us and shit. Yeah, it's it's just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Corn would be corn and the deftones on the side stage at Metro.

SPEAKER_05 51:04

Yeah, that um oh yeah, yeah, and Unwritten Law once again. Who else Huba Stank, you know? They blew up right after they opened up for us. It's crazy. Yeah, you know, everyone got big, you know. We were even on like TRL and shit.

SPEAKER_02 51:18

Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

And like you were saying, I brought Tobin over to the house when you guys were writing, and then they blew up.

SPEAKER_05 51:24

They blew up, yeah. I got four platinum records and a gold from Papa Roach, which is funny bringing up Papa Roach now, because now it's kind of like funny, it's a full circle because I'm Tony. Yeah, Tony who took over drums from Wade in Unwritten Law. Uh so we had Tony Palermo who played in like pulley and ten-foot pole, ten-foot pole and all that. So he after Wade was gone, he joined he was in the band for a few years, and then he now the drummer Papa Roach.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

And what's which is funny because I always bring up to Tony, I go, Yeah, you remember the day you were because he was working at the Troubadour. Yeah, yeah, he was the and Papa Roach was uh we were playing there when I was touring with them. And uh it's just it's just weird. Here he's setting stuff up and now he's in the band.

SPEAKER_05 52:10

Now he's in the band, and it's it's just funny. Like uh, I just you know right before I came here, you know. Um so what a week a week a week ago, I tattooed Tobin's daughter. Because uh I get a text from Jacoby, because he lives in Sacramento. He's all hey, uh, can you it's Tobin's daughter's birthday? I want to get her a tattoo for uh for her birthday present, you know. So can you get her in? I was like, Yeah, I'll come in on my day off for you for that, of course, you know. Yeah, I just tattooed Tobin's uh daughter like right before I came here, and you know, Jacoby's son. Last time I saw her, she was a little girl. Yeah, and she's like 20 something now, you know?

SPEAKER_01 52:49

Yeah, yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

I did my stepdaughter's first tattoo on her big toe when she was 17. Yeah, now she's trying to get into it. Well, she keeps bringing it up, and I'm like, well, I've got I think I've got three machines, and I'm like, Yeah, do it. I I still have some room, but you know, you can practice on me. My tattoos are crap.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Well, I go back to uh Tony because you guys are in a cover band.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

Yeah, yeah. So now Tony and Yeah, so Tony and I, he's like one of my best, my best friends. Yeah, you guys were always tight. Yeah, we're super tight. So even after he joined Papa Roach, we're always always been tight because our you know, our kids grew up together, you know, and um so what happened too, it's funny. So I moved from LA to Placerville, where I'm at now, and Tony was living in Pasadena, you know. I was living in Highland Park in LA, you know. So we were always hanging out then, and then um we moved, and they came and visited one one time, you know, and then they really liked it. So they sold their house uh in Pasadena and moved to Placerville. So Tony is like literally lives like five minutes away from me now. So I see him all the time, you know. Now yeah, we're in that cover band now, and he's playing bass, and I'm on guitar now in that. Oh, okay, yeah. So he's dominant. And Dominic is singing, Dom. Yeah, Dominic. Oh, yeah, yeah, from Moer Dom. Friggin' Dom. Yeah, because he's uh He moved up north too. Yeah, he lives in Berkeley because he's going, he's gonna be like some crazy environmental lawyer, you know. He's like he's going to Berkeley right now.

SPEAKER_02 54:27

Whoa.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

Yeah, and he's uh he's I had no idea he was that fucking smart.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

Neither did I.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

I suspect it because he always had I do environmental compliance right now.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

So it's just weird that I think he's a I could swear he's another one that as soon as he moved to San Diego from Colorado or whatever, he ended up working with me um at Soma, you know, doing the same thing as as everyone else, you know, cleaning up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 54:54

Um yeah, we go way back. I mean, back when he would go out of town for whatever, um, pre-mower days, I would borrow his truck. Oh, yeah. Because I didn't, you know, I would I was riding my my um I don't know if you remember this, but I had I was engaged years ago and had Bubba and Judah were her kids. So and I was a step monster to them. But we never we ended up not getting married, but I would ride her bike half the time when I was doing metro, I didn't have a car. Wow. So I would walk sometimes. Um and every night intermittently I would I would get cars, and it was just it wasn't easy. I didn't make I didn't make shit for yeah, you know. But yeah, I've I've known Dom from way back, and then when Jeria brought that up, I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. This is again, it's you know, all the talent just keeps finding each other.

SPEAKER_05 55:45

Yeah, well, I I've known Dom forever too. You know, I've actually recorded stuff with Dom before I, you know, when I was still living in San Diego, you know. And uh but yeah, this that's a new thing, um, reconnecting with him again because you know, he's like, hey, I just moved to Berkeley, I'd love to hang out and do all this. You know, he's only like an hour away, hour and 15. So when we start this cover band thing, you know, I've always liked Dom's voice. He could sing really well. Yeah I'm like, hey, you wanna do it? And so he's like, hell yeah. So we've already you know, he comes out once a week. We we practice, he'll drive in and you know, it's it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

Yeah, he can sing and scream.

SPEAKER_05 56:23

Scream, he's got a great screaming voice.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Yeah, I booked more at Metro and I booked them at uh at SD. So yeah, I'm trying to and they always they were always good and they always brought in the crowd, too. So they they were very good on self-promotion, you know. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:40

He and I were working at I do remember barely, but after I had left Soma, I worked at 7 Eleven with him. So I think there was a time or two that I was putting up as Mohawk in the 7-Eleven in the early days of of Mower. But yeah, and then the way that that band blew up was just incredible. Absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

So here this was Dom. That's uh the takeover.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Oh, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

Oh yeah. Let's let's throw a little bit of uh unwritten law with the pad on the base.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

That is awesome. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 57:31

Where'd you find this? This is not even out on anything. This is like a demo. Jerry's good at finding this stuff. Oh no, I'm sorry. This is on uh I know this song.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Okay. This is the heaviest song on the album. Because that album's pretty mellow. This is uh Elva, right? Yeah. Oh, okay, yeah. Oh shit. Sorry about that, I screwed up. It wasn't forty.

SPEAKER_05 58:41

This one was done at uh Miguel, who did Sublime's studio. So that was over by kind of Brazando Beach area. It was like right next door. I think was Pennywise's studio. They had a studio, so and then Miguel had a recording studio.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

So I remember it's so funny. We're recording the album, and Fletcher walks in, like, just stops the show. Like we're recording, but you you don't say no to Fletcher, you know? So he's all need you guys to come in and do some gang vocals, you know. So we did on uh fuck authority on uh so we're we're all gang vocaling on that one. It's just funny. We need you in the studio right now.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Stop stop your recording and make some record for Pennywise. Yeah, and well, you're gonna say no to Fletcher?

SPEAKER_02 59:31

Well, he's seven foot ten tall, and but hey, he got he got dropped at Soma.

SPEAKER_05 59:38

Yes. I I remember Soma and I seen him get into it once. What was that? Those shows in PB. There was uh when SRH used to do shows too. At Canes? Not Canes, it was another, it was another joint like I don't remember a venue in PB, though.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Oh the the the Denny's is down the street and then schooners, but there was there was a he used to book shows at Schooners that was one was it dog something or no I can't remember shit because all I remember was Solana Beach, the belly up, belly up, yeah. Yeah, I don't remember any. I never went to any shows.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

There was some other venue that was down the street from Tang. It's a yes, it was right by Tang. So the the Denny's is down on the corner, and then the next block is the beach, and it was just kind of inset because I remember going there, um, psychic zoo guys would be there. Psychic zoo.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

Um so I would see like Taz, Norm, When I Jack, you know, all the the the PB Clayton Yeah guys. Well that that was the thing with Soma, you never disrespected the house there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:49

Yeah. Other places in PB got kind of ground. Ground control never put up with that stuff. Oh no. No, oh no, you guys that's like fighting a tank.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

Yeah, you can't have the real you got the the Samoans. That was a that was a thing, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

That was the thing with Fletcher. He tried to start some shit and one of them knocked him out. I think it was Misa that knocked him out.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Well, she was there when Lynn tried to have Fletcher flatten me. I just told him to fuck off and told him that they were a pain in the ass when they played. And for some reason I lived. I mean, he looked at me like what the fuck are you doing? Well, I mean, you know, Lynn's thrown me under the bus. He goes, Fletcher, uh German doesn't like it when you guys play here. You know, Fletcher, I'm looking up like, yeah, there's I can't even see the fucking clouds here up there. And so I just typical me, full of piss and vinegar, still hung over, probably. Yeah, you guys come in here, you disrespect me. You have this fucking asshole yelling at me for shit that you did. I I went on, I gave him I ran the ride act and he let me live. Because he respected you after that. I don't think he ever respected me and never will, but I just, you know, I wasn't gonna run. Where was I gonna run to? Well, he's he probably uh he's not used to people talking to him like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

So he was probably like, even not only that, just the ego of the band being in the band. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

Well, I mean they they were huge, but you know, there was still I'm I come from because I'm older, a little bit older, so I'd I come from the LA versus San Diego crap, and that's what I was fighting against trying to do it. But you know, Len threw me under the bus with it, and I I think Len might have actually paid me an extra five or ten bucks for that night. Not given.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:31

Should have gave you a hundred bucks. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:33

I don't think I rarely got a hundred bucks for doing anything. I worked seven days a week for that guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:37

But Pat, you were saying that the last time you thought you seen me was in 2000 at the house when you guys were writing the album, but actually you saw me several times afterwards because you guys would play Ventura Theater. Yeah, oh yeah, you would always come to go hang out with you guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:51

Right, you would always come out to Ventura.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

I remember you guys would stay at the motel six off of Seaword there, and we'd be out in the parking lot playing CeeLo.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:59

Yeah, yeah, that's right. You would always show up in Ventura. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

God, it's probably I would say for me, it's probably 97-ish. Metro since I'd seen because after that, I really just I just kind of disappeared. Yeah, yeah. I took my landscaping tools and my 12 pack and hit under a rock.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

So I was gonna ask um, when did you leave Unwritten Law?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:26

Uh now, okay, so I can gauge this one because I now this sh it's been I've been tattooing for 10 years now. So I quit it's probably been about like 13, 14 years ago. So I quit Unwritten Law and got into tattooing. So yeah, it's probably about like 13.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

I thought you started another band.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:55

Uh during Unwritten Law, I did a little this I did a little stint in a band called Black President, which is one of my Wasn't I with Wade too? No, Wade used to be in it. Oh, okay. So he was out, and then I came in on, you know, but Black President was like a saving grace for me because at that point I was pretty not loving being in unwritten law anymore, you know. And it was just like the music was getting softer and softer, you know, kind of and it just wasn't your vibe. It wasn't my vibe really, but I was also doing it for a paycheck and you know, that kind of uh that's I know there was personality, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

And of course the personality stuff, but um because now there's nobody in that band that was originally in the band. Wade is still kind of in and out now. Yeah, I thought he was just doing Spray Allen now.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:43

Yeah, well he's I I saw Wade uh like a month and a half ago in Sacramento because Spray Allen came and he called me up. So so I I still have a really good relationship with you know the other fellas, you know. But uh so during that time I I joined a band called Black President for a minute. Yep. And the thing about this one was I would trip out because at the time when I joined, Greg Hudson was in the band. So I remember like rehearsals. Um, I'd look to my right and I see Greg Hudson, you know, fucking circle George Catrolling, you know, that's he's a legend to me, and I'd just be like giddy, you know, like a little kid looking over and I'm like, I'm I and I I've got to play a couple shows in Black President with him, you know. We played like Alex's bar, knitting factory, and stuff until uh then he kind of took off, you know. But yeah, to say that I was in a band with Greg Hudson for as short of a time it was was pr really like for me one of my most greatest accomplishments. And it's not even in bad religion anymore. I know, but and the fact that you you probably like bad uh black president, it's just a good hardcore punk band, you know, really and so I got to get that out of my scissors. I'm doing unrent a lot, you know, and it's getting softer and softer, but I got to do um Black President, and it kind of gave Me that what I needed. It's what I needed at the time. Yeah, I needed that, otherwise I I was just losing my mind, you know. And then it came time again, like I I had to either make a choice again, you know, because you know, we had to start recording next Unrent Law album and stuff, and that once again, that was my paycheck, you know. So I couldn't give all all that I should have.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

Did you did you get married while you were in Unrent Law or Yes? And then you and then you started having a family and Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:32

So yeah, I've been with my wife now for like 18 years, you know. So I got married during that time and I got two awesome daughters, you know, Maxine and Scarlett, and 13 and 15, it's crazy, just like just like that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:51

Yeah, yeah. Cong congrats on the on the the being in a having a family and being married for 18 years. I only made it the most. My first marriage lasted five years, and my second one lasted a year. Yeah. I never had that kind of luck. Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:08

I appreciate that. Yeah, it's it's it's awesome. So yeah. And your daughter's musicians, your wife play it all, or no, my wife's a hairdresser with no tattoos. And uh my kids, you know, I I didn't want to force anything on them, you know, but they have, you know, I got a music room with a plethora of instruments, and you know, they they're not into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Yeah. That's usually the way it happens. Not too many, not too many kids follow their parents' footsteps, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Or they well, I'm I'm lucky because Monkey, my stepdaughter, is not only extremely talented, she's an illustration artist. Um she's a talented musician. And she does as far as like punk rock, you know, I'm so frickin' old at this point that it's nothing that she even wants to do. But in her own way, she's independent, v strong willed. And um she's got some things going on. She rides a long board where her mom and I ride shortboards mainly. And um, she's just owned that. But all that didn't really start happening until she started getting older, until after high school. Right. And she started to really become but you know, it's the idea of actually being around long enough to and with the gap between us. I mean, I'm so I'm 53, she's 21. That that gap is absolutely insane. I think it's long enough to where she can be an individual, yet kind of look up to me and all the people and all the bands and all that, she doesn't she doesn't care about. She's not she doesn't get like all giddy over meeting musicians. She's just she's totally independent, which is really great knowing that she's you know becoming her own woman. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

Aren't you guys also doing like a family vineyard or something?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:03

Yeah, my wife has uh a wine, Marcella, you know, winery. Um and it's uh her her parents have always they have like 40 acres, you know, and they've always grown grapes, you know, ever since she was a kid. They make he they sell grapes to other wineries, and he makes his own. Yeah. Finally, my wife's like, let's make our own, you know, stop like doing so. And she basically it's a you know, it's not a money-making thing by any means. It's kind of like a hobby. It's a it's a passion project, you know, labor love, you know, truly. So and she wanted to have it come to fruition while her dad's still around. Right. So she pulled it off, you know. And so, you know, Marcella Wines is uh it's it's uh she's got like we pick, you know, and it's very it's all family, you know, so it's not like everything's done by by us, you know. So how long have you guys been putting the wine out? The wine now has been a couple years now, but uh you know, it's just kind of runs itself right now. You know, we it there's so many like regulations and stuff with the alcohol thing. So it's like it's our grapes, but we can't do it on our property, make it so we we pick the grapes custom crushed at uh so the ATF, huh? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it's always always some kind of government. It's so many like rules and regulations. You can't like she can only sell it at the moment through the website, you know. And right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:34

I want I want to try it. I I love wine. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure kind of a snobby about wine.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:40

Well, I'll bring you uh uh a couple bottles next time I'm down, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

We we have to set up something to get some ink, yes, and I'll buy some bottles off you. Okay, and and pay for some ink.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:50

Yeah, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:51

Yeah, I would love to have a piece of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

Make it worth the worthwhile of your time.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:56

Oh yeah. I mean, I I come down, you know, every few months, you know. Right now with the pandemics, of course, it's kind of like you come down here to see friends from back in the day. Yeah, I mean, like once again, like the Sprung guys, yeah. That's my tribe. You know, I found my tribe when I moved to San Diego, you know what I'm saying? That's I found my people. So even though I quit Sprung and was under law, those the Sprung guys are still like my, you know, they're my root of the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Do you ever jam with anyone?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:24

Um, yeah, last time I was here, uh we uh got together with the Sprung guys and and you know, we just yeah, let's just play a bunch of cover songs. We're doing like Dr. No stuff and you know, just trying to play my neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:37

Yeah, that's rad. Yeah, I I have a huge Dr. No, the the staff piece, it's it's horrible. It's and it's it's big, it's on my inner thigh. You know, it's painful. Yeah, and I tried doing it myself. Oh my god. And you and you also go to LA to see family?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:55

Yes. So what I do now is like, you know, I'll I'll come down from Placerville maybe every three, four months, you know, do a pit stop. I'll drive to LA, pit stop there, get all my drawings and stuff ready for for the week. I'll drive in on a Monday and then stay out the whole week and then drive back, you know. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:15

You tattoo out of a shop down here?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:19

So basically, after I quit Unwritten Law, I got into tattooing. Um and I'm living in Highland Park in LA, right? So you know, after I quit the band, I was like, man, am I gonna become a rock and roll casualty? You know, I'm what am I gonna do with myself? Because, you know, so after I quit, I was like, I knew I want to get into art, you know? Yeah, so I was like, I'm gonna go become a graphic designer. So I started taking, you know, Photoshop illustrator classes at the college.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:49

And then I realized that's not for me either. I'm an old school King Kos cut and paste punk rock flyer dude, you know? Yeah. And I'm like you, yeah, you know, but like trying to keep up with these young kids, and like you have to be on this, you get the latest updates, all of it. I'm like, I don't even know what it's too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:04

It was not just it's a lot of work just keeping up.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:08

Yeah, keeping up to date with all terms and the technology. Everything's digital, and like they always change something when the new updates, and it's like, man, that's that's not for me. And then um one of my really good friends, Glenn Slooter, uh, from up here, uh he was a tattoo artist, but I found out he was opening up his own shop. So I was all like, fuck, you know. Uh I hit him up, and he he was all like, Look, I get your situation. You're I'm already 40 at this time. You know, I'm starting to tattoo at 40. That's late in the middle. You're starting over, basically. Yeah, starting my life over, and he's all like, and I'm living in LA, and who's gonna, you know, it's I can't get an apprentice. Who wants to give a 40-year-old dude an apprenticeship? You know, so he's all like, look, you give me three days a week, I'll teach you how to tattoo. Nice. So I would drop my kids off at school on a Tuesday morning and then drive straight to San Francisco and uh Tuesday through Thursday, and I would couch surf, you know. I stayed with Will, Chuck from Sprung Monkey, you know, lived or Mike's, you know, I'd couch surf three days a week, you know. And then after I was done on Thursday, I'd drive back home, you know, and just repeat that process. Wow. And I did that for three years. And the funny thing is, like, I quit. A lot of things with quitting on rental law was minus like the you know the drama in there, but was I didn't want to be on tour either anymore because I had kids. Yeah, you had a family. Yeah, and it was like we didn't really have Skype and all that video phone thing back then either, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:41

So it was yeah, for for those of you that don't know, terrain life isn't not all that it's cracked up to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:47

No, man. So it was rough. So bus life. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't like being away from the kids like that, so I get you know, I came ho I came back. But like it was funny, I'm learning how to tattoo, but I kept that I was still gone half the week, you know? Yeah, but so I did that after a year, you know, I kind of got my you know, figured everything out, you know. Yeah, you got comfortable, yeah, yeah. And then, but like at the same time, he's also like my good friend, and I didn't want to be like, hey, thanks for teaching me how to tattoo, I'm out of here. So I stuck around for an extra two years to, you know, just to help the business, help the business out, you know, and then finally I was like, Man, I can't, I'm I can't do this commute anymore. You know, yeah. He's all I can't believe he stuck around this long anyhow, you know. Yeah, so that's cool. Yeah, yeah, but so I still come here. When I come here, I I go to his shop still. It's called Adora Tattoo by La Mesa. So I go there and just kind of I'm still, you know, do that. The guest spot. So how's the and how's the shop in Placerville? It's awesome. I work at a joint called Hangman Tattoo, and uh it's awesome. Like the crew's great, and and it's it's awesome because I I'm I'm living in a little small, you know, country town, you know? Yeah, a little gold country.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

That's what I was I was thinking. I'm like, um, so how's business being?

SPEAKER_05 1:16:06

Yeah, so the thing is where I live, there's there's three shops, but like we're the main the main shop there, you know. And so we don't have to deal with like city tattoo shops where you have three shops on one block. Right. You know, there's you come to San Diego, there's hundreds of tattoo shops. Oh yeah. You throw a rock and you're gonna bounce off one and get seven others. Where I'm at, there that's not the case. So I'm I'm busy. I'm that's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:33

So you are are you doing custom work or is it flash art or no? Now like you know, I got my own clientele stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:40

So yeah, you haven't seen his uh stuff. You gotta go look at his page. Yeah, you can follow me on uh you can follow me at pacpk underscore tattooer. He does a lot of he does a lot of custom stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

Oh, I I got a lot of custom stuff.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:51

You know, I I kind of like Halloween stuff a little bit, you know. But uh no, I'm I just I love tattoos. I've never stopped loving tattoos. The one thing I hate doing is getting it all set up. By the time I get my machine set up and get my area and try to think of, okay, well, I'm just gonna do this. I start getting into it. And I just get bored because I don't want to tattoo myself anymore.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

You know, I just I'm not that good anyways, but it's just something, you know, like the draw because all these skateboards that are up here, the majority of them are are mine, and I hand paint them. Yeah. So I like doing that, but I don't do like the big canvases anymore and and all that. I just I've got so many other projects going on.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:37

And when I get tattooed, for me, it's therapeutic. Yeah. I mean, I literally like when my wife was like, you need to clean up your mohawk. So I sat on the porch and that's why their hair's all as she shaved my head, and she shaved my head, and I started falling asleep, and I'm just I just it's meditative, just to you know, even getting my my head shaved or getting a tattoo, especially getting a tattoo. I just yeah, oh, it's so nice.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:02

I feel super lucky to be able to do this, uh fall into something that I really have a love and passion for. It's like going from music, having a career in music, and now tattooing is uh it's like winning the lotto, dude. Well, you just stayed in the uh art art world, so and I create creativity of tattooing, you know, everything everything about it, you know. And so it's not like work for me, to be honest with you. You know, my days go quick, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:30

You know, yeah, when you love something, it it does go by faster. You're not like you don't feel like a slave to you know the almighty dollar. So it's a it's a knack that I think. And that that's a key for most people. If you want to live a good life, find something you love that you love and then you can make money off of.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:45

Yeah, yeah. And um, yeah, so I'm very lucky. I love what I do, and I feel I'm good at it too.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:51

So, you know, once you're still doing music, so yeah, you got them both.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to you guys to to play when you guys are gonna come to LA or Diego when you guys are gonna come to the top.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:00

Yeah, like I said, we're just doing cover stuff, so it's really but that's cool. It's super fun. There's a lot of bands out there doing that stuff, no pressure, you know, and and because I always said, like, if I'm gonna play music again, it's gonna be for fun. Like I wanna really enjoy it. You've already done it as a job, so now you deserve especially like like I said, when I was doing that black president thing, I ru that really made me love playing again. Yeah, you know, like it was what I wanted to play, and it was I loved everything about it, and that I think gave me that couple extra years more to be in unwritten law, you know, to tolerate it. Right, you know. And what uh when are you heading back to Placerville? Uh tomorrow morning. So after this, uh I'm gonna shoot to LA. I'm gonna go pick up my aunt tomorrow and take her back to Placerville because my cousin lives up there. She splits the time between Sacramento and her son that's in the city.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:53

And that's kind of that's cool that you're gonna have somebody to drive back up with too because how many hours is that? Seven hours. Yeah, yeah. I'm heading to uh I'll be in Napa on Tuesday. You are? Yeah. What are you doing? Uh I pick environmental compliance. Um I we got a gas station that's being built. I gotta go make sure the tanks, the fuels, the fuel levels are there, and kind of inspect the site and then take pictures of the progress to send back to the uh the bosses. Oh I'm kind of all over the state with what I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:22

Yeah, and if I drive out to El Cahone or I do have an account, I have two accounts in Santee. So that's about the furthest that I drive. And that's with my mower and line trimmer. Yeah. You know, the the amount of traveling that both of you guys are doing just makes me exhausted because I just I don't I I can't drive that much anymore. But it was like the in the same thing when I was younger, and I you know, I was forced to get a car and get my license so I could do the flyer route. So my main route was from the beach out to El Cahone to go to Blue Meenies, hit up all the music trayers.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:01

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:01

So, you know, I was doing that flyer route while Len did the coastline, you know, the the pretty stuff. But um God, I ended up doing that, you know, two, three times a week, and that was we figured both of our routes were about a hundred miles each. So at this point, I mean the idea of thinking about driving from here to LA to me is like nah. Let's go have someone um put a flame under my foot for an hour. I'd rather do that than that's insane. That's another reason why I would never tour. So getting back to touring, because I'm just so enamored by this. What other what other uh countries have you been in from uh we've been Europe?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:48

The only place I never got to go, which I'm bummed, is uh like Japan, like Asia, you know. And right because they they went like a year after I quit, they go to Japan. Finally, I'm like, you motherfucker. I love the American bands in Japan. It just like goes off there. Yeah, that's why I was like, I always wish I could have gone there, but you know, Europe. We didn't we we never went to South America either, but everything's too.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:12

But how about down in Mexico anywhere? Oh Mexico City or No, none of that. Would you go in a bus or you do in vans?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:22

We started it in in a van, but graduated to the bus. I don't think we would have made it if we had to do it in a in a van. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

That's the other thing that I'm just every time they play Ventura Theater, they're on a nice tour bus. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:34

Yeah, because it reminds me of Tony from No Doubt when they got big and they had been on the road for just over a year, and I asked him because he's like, I just want to be on the road, Jeremy. I just want to be on the road. And um, I just thought that you're insane. But, you know, the band was growing. The record um whatever Tragic Kingdom had just came out, so this was around the holidays, and I asked him, I said, So, you know, how's how's the road treat? And he's like, dude, this fucking sucks. Because that's the thing a lot of people think, you know, you're touring the all over the place. Um, if you're in a van, it just it's even worse. It's just read Black Flag's book in the van and it's everybody's everybody's cramped and the van smells. Smells, it sucks. And that's after showering.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:20

You know, but the thing about it, even when you're in the big bus, the van always smells. Yeah. When you're in the bus, you don't really get much time. You have to do a sound check, you have to do whatever interviews, you you don't get to go and see the countries. True. You know, and you're always kind of working.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Remember, remember back in the day in the van, like in the 90s, we didn't have GPS. No. We're going off maps, getting lost. I mean, it was just it was crazy. Paper map. Trying to make it on time. Thomas Brothers and stuff breaking down. It was just, it was uh insane.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:53

Yeah. Well, the thing too, uh the being on the road is kind of tedious for from doing that. You you realistically you work two hours out of the day. Your sound check and the show. Right. Right. The rest of the the time is just sitting around being bored, being bored, waiting, you know, if you're in a cool town, then you get to check out the town a little bit, you know, but still you don't have, you know. And that lifestyle is rough, too, because you know, it's you you do the show, you're partying until like three, four in the morning. You go to bed, pass out in the bus, and you're in those coffins, so it's pitch black in there. I'd wake, you have lose what time it is. I crawl out of the bunk at like one or two in the afternoon, you know, and then you just start.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

It's just that cycle, it just gets so and then trying to go find a shower, you know, clean shower and freshen up, yeah, fresh clothes, fresh socks, yeah, something to wear. So many guys I know that tour and they wear the same stuff every day. Yeah, you pack all the stuff, yeah, and it's just too much of a hassle.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:55

Well, there's no no place to store it either.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:57

Uh I'm gonna have two guitars or places you can store it, especially if you're on a tour bus.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:03

Well, a lot of times these guys that would have a trailer on the back of the tour bus.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:07

Yeah. But it gets it gets funky, and they you got all those wet, sweaty clothes you have to hang up to dry, but they're hanging all over the bus, and it just That's why you have to be like Figazi, who brought their own dryer with them on tour.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:18

Wow. And they toured in a they toured in a U-Haul van. Yeah. They had a they had a dryer, they'd wash their clothes at the venue in the sink, and then it would dry them as they were playing. Their stuff would be drying backstage.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

And that's when Henry, the one of his greatest stories is why he always wore the dolphin shorts and no shoes. Or shirt. Yeah, because it would he would be soaked, so he could just switch those shorts out and he's got clean clothes. Yeah, it made sense. I tried doing the shorts and no shoes once playing Metro on the side stage, and it's like, oh no. I I'm if I was more stationary, I'd be fine. Yeah. But no, and then I just felt like I was ripping off Hank, so I'm like, oh my god, I look like a fool. But that being said, with with being on the road, um were you ever a partier at all?

SPEAKER_05 1:26:08

Or yeah, I mean, we'd finish a ball of Jameson standard every night, you know, arrival with like two balls of Jameson, and that thing's gone. Yeah. So you know, we're all partying and and that adds to the tensions and yeah, of course, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:23

So see all these reasons are why I will never tour.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:28

Yeah. I mean, a lot of it's sheer boredom, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:30

And then it's that's yet again. That's again, you gotta find a band that everybody gets gets along. There's no personality issues, and it's like I love touring with Buck Buck O9. Everybody gets along.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:41

Yeah, they all they're like all homies and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

What 30 years? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:46

Well, you know, I just saw Rob uh the other night. He came out because I was actually supposed to tattoo Steve Morris, but uh and it ended up his daughter Shiloh got uh the the the Rona. Yeah, and I haven't seen Steve in years. Yeah, yeah. So whenever I'm out here, I do uh usually see Steve and Rob, you know, Wade every once in a while. Like I said, I saw Wade in Sacramento, he called me up, so I went down and hung out and spent an awesome time.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:11

Yeah, yeah, it's cool when when everybody can hang out.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:14

Yeah, yeah, it's it's cool like being older now and like now that it's I'm not in the band, you know, none of us are in the band, but like now we're all friends. Yeah, right. There's no business involved. Yeah, there's no business involved, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:27

And you're not stuck in in close confined spaces, yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:32

And you can be more reflective too. That's the greatest thing about doing this. Yeah. Because I guarantee a month from now I'm gonna think it's oh, I should ask Pat that. Oh, this, you know. But when Jerry and I are doing prep for any of these, I mean we're talking back and forth, just trying to get scheduling and everything and figure out who we're gonna have come in. It just it strikes, you know, the the brain to start clicking and things start popping up, and it's it's pretty, pretty insane. This this town has again so much ridiculous talent. Yeah. And there's just so many things that or had.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:08

No, you know, there are still dude. It's always gonna be there. I mean, there's this band called uh, like my friend uh manages a band called Take Offense from Chula Vista. You heard those guys?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:18

No, not yet.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:19

They're madmen. Take offense, like awesome. Yeah, they're heavy as fuck, tight. Are they signed or I just got a vinyl? They are signed, I don't know what label, but yeah, check them out. The the these Chula Vista kids, and they're it's um it's awesome. I'm gonna write that down. Take offense.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:38

Okay. Yeah, man. Because there's really not a lot of really good new music. I have I mean, there's a couple bands I I'll listen to, but I don't I don't find a lot of stuff interesting anymore. True. You know, it's there's it's just no originals. That's the problem. It just wasn't like it was in the 90s and the 80s, you know, like even the 70s, you know, a lot of stuff is well, it'd be hard for somebody to come out with something totally, totally off the wall that nobody's seen.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:08

So but it's there and it's and every you know, it does pop up, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:13

Yeah, and so I'm waiting for the next plus the other thing is it seems like everybody has a spotlight now with the social media, you know, YouTube. Anybody can be a band, anybody could do their own solo thing. Oh shit, they got like a millions of followers. I'm like who I know it's crazy, huh? They're making money and it's just insane. Yeah, for sure. So well, should we uh should we end this podcast? It's uh patterned, or is there anything else that we uh no me miss?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:46

We appreciate you coming out, yeah. It's uh it's been forever, man. And like just like you guys are saying, just talking about this now, all these I'm gonna drive home same thing, going like, oh my god, you know, all these things are starting to and then you're like brought this up. Yeah, yeah, you know, since it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:01

Yeah, that's what it was with when we uh when Rob came in, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:04

And you wait, did you have uh because you also did John too?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:08

Yeah, same day, actually. Awesome. Yep, yeah, it was uh it was pretty cool. Just um yeah, just the studio. I mean I like this. This has got a nice it's more it's it's more relaxed. Yeah, it's a it's and the thing is we don't we were only able to do four people in the studio. We couldn't couldn't add the music. I can actually take phone interviews too with this, uh just weird. We had the you know, it's a million dollar studio and couldn't do a lot.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:33

So here we have this pretty yeah, and you don't have to time constraint like no worry about looking at a clock, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

You just paying. We had the pay, and it's like no, this is good. Yeah, good, very comfortable. Well, we appreciate you coming out here.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:47

Yeah, man. Thanks, guys. Good seeing you guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:49

And it it again, it's been damn, seems like 15 years or something since I seen you last.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:54

Yeah, a long time in germ for sure, like even.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:58

Yeah, it was probably about 97. But again, Pat, thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. I love hearing the stories.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:18

This podcast was recorded at Red Run Skates, mixed and mastered by me, Jared. Music by it by ranking.