Andy Wakeman : Meat Wagon, Strychnine 99 (SD documentary)

This is a really rough recording of Andy, Wakeman and I chatting. Andy is legendary in this town, an absolute pleasure to chat with ,mind you ,this is only one conversation that we have a full length video that will be published soon on my YouTube as well as. We will definitely be chatting again in the near future !
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#punkrock #punkrocker #sandiego #jermaddams #thewasteaways #musichistory #punrockscene #punkrockhistory #podcast #podcaster #Diy #jermwarfareproductions #skateboards #artist #redrumskates #halloween #mars #museum #haunted #oddities #bassguitar #bassplayer #unionandmetropodcast https://youtube.com/@jermaddams?si=4bjqYtyh3tUaPCUd https://open.spotify.com/album/6WxUfbKnAAtKiNDphjHvmT?si=hM7myq-RQ0qtRIvskClG8A https://www.instagram.com/jerm_addams?utm_source=qr

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hopefully it'll just be one of many. Okay, we're rolling, and um, so I don't even have an intro for this. That's funny. Intro? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Hey, Eddie. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

I'm germ. Good to meet you.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

And this is Pugsley. But um trying to first while interview dog Pugsley with the penetrating questions.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

And um, he knows all the the wise things. But um, God, I didn't even come up with an intro. I'm gonna edit all this anyways. But so, yeah, when I was talking with Boris Jacoy, and he's the one that really kind of initialized the want to start doing this. Oh, to make a documentary? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah, I just met Boris like f four years ago, I'd say. When I started up with Strict 999, and he, I don't know, started coming to shows, so we became friends. And then I realized that he's doing documentaries. Him and his mom make documentaries. Yeah. They did one up in uh the Wells of Templeton or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah, there was um when was it? I think a couple years ago. And then he I think it's just traveling and whatnot, got kind of too busy because he was gonna do this, and the whole thing was the um It's gonna blow documentary. Which anytime I talk to anyone about it, granted there's a lot of Soma stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I've seen it twice.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yeah, I have a copy, and even when we watch it, we kind of cringe, but it tells, you know, that one part of the story.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

So here's where I wanted to tell.

SPEAKER_02 1:38

Oh, that's the flip side of that coin.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, well, you know, it's so we all know what it is. It's you know about the Casbah, basically, and Casbah bands. That and then that movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yeah, that was more about a certain group of bands who came in to the Casbah. You know, it was like a the right bands at the right time with the right audience, and yeah, Casbah moved to a bigger place, and there you go.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Then I couldn't play there anymore because you know, times had changed.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, well that's the thing, at the whole scene, they've always kind of had their click. And granted, at Soma there was that click as well. It was an all-age club, so of course it was that click. But we put a lot of bands that went through there and a lot of people made careers out of it, which is cool. But I want to go back to like late 60s, 70s before punk even started, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I was a music fan then.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

That's what got me started. So what when did you get started in music? Like when did it actually play music or just being a music fan? Just like, okay, this is something I'm interested in.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Oh, I don't know, probably the first time I saw the Beatles on TV or something, or maybe the Beatles cartoons, or just being aware of like, you know, the phenomenon of rock stars and people going crazy, and you're just like, Wow, this is exciting, it's wonderful. It used to be on TV, actually, where the action is would be on TV in the afternoon, I think 66 or 67. I'd watch that like Dave Clark, not Dave Clark 50, Paul Revere and the Raiders.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, they still had the uniforms on, but they would get out there and like play every afternoon.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

They had like a half-hour show on TV. It's awesome. What channel was that? Uh it was like ABC TV. I think it was a Dick Clark production. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah. That's crazy. I'm gonna have to look that up. Yeah. Because I didn't I mean, well, San Diego wise, were you born in San Diego? No, no, I'm a New York native. Oh, okay. Yeah. So when did you move out to San Diego?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Oh, I didn't move till I was 25 in 1986. I moved out here at the start of 86.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Okay. That's great. That's when I graduated high school.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

But you know, I was yeah, I listened to AM radio and stuff when I was a kid. You know, there wasn't really wasn't much FM back then. Well, I just listened to AM radio, you know, I'd ride around on my spider bike, listen to the ADM radio, and they had, you know, Blue Cheer would be on air occasionally, and Credence, and you know, all kinds of music. So you got you got to listen to all kinds of music.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

You know, not just specifically rock and roll or hard rock. But I had an older brother, and when about 1970, he came home from friends' house and he had some albums that he borrowed, including Kick Out the Jams by the MC5, and like I think there was Jimi Hendrix Smash Hits and you know a few other things. Yeah. But that really, you know, put the hook of some hard rock into me. Yeah, and and he then he bought Black Sabbath Paranoid and Oh my, here we go. Yeah, that's that was my later introduction, but Blondie was mine in I used to think it was 77, but no, it was when Rapture came out, so that was actually fairly early in the Blondie thing, so that might have been 78, maybe 79.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah. Yeah. But I remember being on the swing in my backyard and hearing it and you know, not knowing anything about rapping or anything like that. Not even scatting. But I was already into well, here we had 13K, AM radio, and I think there was something on FM, but you know, I just had the little transistor radio. So I'd be on my swing and listening to that, and they would play, you know, the cars. I'm trying to think of who would be around back then, but Blondie's the one that really just okay, I like this. And I it's starting to make sense. But then the darker side for me is Black Sabbath, which you know, still to this day.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

See, when I was 10, 11, 12, I was listening to Black Sabbath, uh, Deep Purple, you know, I got Machine Head, went crazy for that. I listened to it like a million times. Alice Cooper, stuff like that. And you know, I think a lot of the roots of my punk rockness came from listening to Alice Cooper and uh stuff like that. And somebody turned me on to uh David Bowie back then too.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

And uh I heard Mott the Hoople on the radio and just you know, not not the greatest exposure to things, but some exposure to like English music, some glam stuff, and you know, I knew what I liked, and I liked you know, sort of catchy songs with some crunchy guitar. I couldn't didn't really know how to express it back then, but that's kind of what I liked.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Then the bands that I liked, it all started to change. It's just like, you know, about a sixth or seventh Black Sabbath album. It's just like, you know, this isn't grabbing me like the first ones did. And uh Deep Purple were off trying to play RB and funk and stuff, and Alice Cooper band broke up, and there wasn't a lot of rock and roll there. It was current rock and roll, like in the mid-70s that I really liked. I started listening to jazz rock and stuff like that. Oh, okay. Like jazz fusion rock and stuff, because they had shredding guitar players, and you know, it's just something crazy and aggressive.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah. Was it more the English stuff?

SPEAKER_02 7:01

No, no, not necessarily, you know. American stuff too. Return to Forever, Stanley Clark, Mahavishnu, things like that, you know. Yeah. That's where I was into Zappa. Mm-hmm. And a lot of Frank Zappa, a lot of Frank Zappa, a lot of Jimi Hendrix. At that point, I was like trying to find Jimi Hendrix reissues or bootlegs or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

But yeah, I was really frustrated in it's like I, you know, most mainstream rock just didn't appeal to me at that point.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah. That's kind of where I was.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Then I heard the Ramones in '76. Because I'd I'd go down to the corner store in Connecticut where I lived, Mystic Connecticut. I'd get out of Kretzer's Corner Store and look at the rock and roll magazines. And then there was a new one, Rock Scene magazine. It's like, who are these bands? I never heard of these ones. And it was all the New York bands, kind of underground bands, were writing about the Ramones and the dictators and stuff that was happening down there. Not that I ever heard any of their music, but I saw pictures of them. I'm like, what is this? You know? You see a picture of Iggy bleeding all over the place. You're like, what is that? They don't play that on the radio. You know? What is this? Yeah. And so I was just intrigued by that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, that's the same as me. You ever get into like um sweet or slade and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

You know, what little I could see on not the dolls. Sweet or slay, the dolls were a step too far. Because once I saw the dolls, I looked at the pictures of the New York dolls and thought, I can't be seen having a New York dolls record. This is like they're like transvestites or something. You know, I don't know what this is.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

You know, I probably would have liked the music if I'd listened to it, but like why I wasn't gonna go there.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

You know, yeah. Very very shocking, even for me being a freak by the time I had seen them.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

I might have liked it, I might not have. Because then I remember discovering college radio out of Providence, Rhode Island, and uh, we have the new Ramones album. This was in 76. We have the new Ramones album, and they put on Beat on the Brat. And I listened to it and I go, What the hell was that? You know, I didn't I couldn't digest it, I didn't know what to make of it, but I kind of didn't like it. I thought it was dumb. It just sounded dumb. Yeah, you know. It was very academic. It was really dumb to me, and it's like if you're used to listening to Frank Zappa, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that? You know, I couldn't relate. You know, then I went away to boarding school for a few years, and I came back in the summer of 78 to listen to the Ramones again. Got my hands on a copy of Road to Ruin in that late summer, and wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks. After that, it was everything changed. I didn't want to listen to anything but the Ramones after that.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

That's what so what else were you listening to back then?

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Uh the same thing, Jimi Hendrix. Uh oh, I started listening to Robert Gordon and Link Ray. I got turned on to that in I think '77 out of Boston Radio, they would play that first album. And uh I really liked that, so I got a copy of it as soon as I could. I didn't know. Yeah, I didn't know, you know, I would listen to whatever was on the radio. You know, Boston would come on and you go, Well, it's great production, you know. Listen, it's epic power ballad, rock and roll. It's like whoopy. I remember uh the cars would come on, you know. I listen to the cars, I go, wow, listen to that. It's really well recorded and well produced, you know. And I listen to the the vocal harmonies, it's like, oh, they got these stack compressed harmonies. It's like like the sweet, like sweet or uh Queen did, and you know, it's the same producer. Yeah. So no wonder it sounded the same.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, I I remember my mom had uh a track of the cars. Yeah. And I would go in her car and I guess we would just steal the keys and then you know, turn out and sit in there and smoke a cigarette and then be like, Yeah, I'm gonna go skate because I'm motivated because I listen to the cars, but they you know, they were rocking and they I still have to this day have that sense of harmony and and building a really good song, even though I like noise and you know I can make absolute chaos, but in my heart of heart, I think Blondie and the cars were there, but I was also by eighty I was listening to like Venom, and then after that, you know, Slayer and all the metal came out, which I like because I like it. I didn't know about that stuff too much.

SPEAKER_02 11:47

Well, I I didn't really know about it, I hadn't heard that stuff at the time.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

What are you playing at?

SPEAKER_02 11:52

I was still trying to find uh punk rock records at that point, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, which wasn't that wasn't easy. It wasn't easy.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

You know, it's like by the time I got into punk rock, late 78 or late summer 78, you know, it was hard to find albums. Uh and then it slowly dawned on me, uh-oh, the Sex Pistols broke up. Yeah, you did one album and broke up.

unknown 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

What about the Dead Boys? Oh, the Dead Boys broke up. Like, oh, I missed it. I finally found the stuff and I missed it.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Damn it.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

What about the Zeros? I hadn't heard of the Zeros, didn't know anything about 'em. I have a 45 that I got, and I'm not even sure if it's the right band.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

It's a vintage 45, but I mean yeah, at the time I had never heard of the Zeros, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

That's that's the thing for me until well um what's his face? Cliff. When he was working it off the record. That's how people my age group, a lot of us got our records. And he was safe enough that I can go and talk to hey, you know, what's up with the this venom record? Oh yeah, because you know, he likes frickin' everything, which was so amazing. But other than that, you know, as a kid, we would stumble across something maybe, like the Dead Kennedys, you know, it'd be a tape. Someone would get a tape.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Or their older brother or something. Um back when I was in high school, California Theater was around. Um, what else? Jackie Robinson, and there's a few places, so the little bit older cats that had younger brothers and sisters, they might make a tape and then that would go through all of us. And since I was a skater back then, and the great thing about tapes is like, you know, I got a double deck, man.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Let me borrow that and I'll tape it for myself, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

And that's that's how I got into a lot of bands too. Friends of mine would have records, you know. Friend of mine had uh the first two minor threat seven inches, and he put them on a cassette and gave it to me. I'm like, holy shit, this is incredible, you know, and you know, in 1981 or two, you're hearing that, just going, Whoa, this is incredible. Yeah. I mean when I went to and you know, the question is, where can I get some more of this stuff? You know, then you find out about Maximum Rock and Roll magazine and flip side, and you're like, oh, cool, these guys know what's going on. Yeah, but then read record reviews in the back or find out or read an interview with somebody that sounded interesting and learn about bands that way.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

We would do um look through the special thanks to in the back to see what other bands and then try to pick whatever sounded the coolest and then go and get that record. Uh you know, because we were all, you know, poor, it's especially me. I was I was pretty poor.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Um I had a job back then, so uh you know, I had steady money coming in, so if I could find the records, I could certainly afford them.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Uh there was like a couple record stores about, you know, one 20 miles one way, one twenty miles the other way for me. And you know, every week or two I'd go over there and see if there's anything in the import bin or something that I didn't know about, but I didn't know anybody that worked there. Then in the little town that I lived in, somebody opened up a used record store, a Mystic Disc. So I went in there and looked around. It's like, eh, there's a lot of old hippie records, used records. I said, Donnie, you you sell any new records in here? You got any punk rock or anything? And the guy's like, what's that? I he's and he said, Oh, look, I have these uh catalogs from record distributors. You want to look through them? I'm like, oh, yeah. I said, So if I find something, I can just you can order it for me? He goes, Yeah, whatever you want. So every week I'd go in there and I'd get Green World and More Dam and Dutch East's catalog of what was coming out that week or that month or what they had in stock, and you know, and pencil, give me one of these, give me one of these. So I built up a nice little record collection back then.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

That's cool. And then you're also one of those ones that the the owner knows when you're coming in that yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Well, you know, what would happen was you know, you'd see that I I clicked, you know, checked off, get one of these, one of these, one of these, and goes, I'm gonna order two of those, you know, and see if anybody else will buy this stuff. And you know, people would come in and start buying the stuff. Yeah, and then it became the place to go.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

That's so cool. That brings back great memories of being a kid.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Oh, plus, you know, back then you didn't really get to hear a lot of bands, so I bought a lot of stuff unheard, you know, bands you might have heard about or you think you might like, or you know, they looked intriguing in an interview or something. The Misfits. I had never heard the Misfits. Hey, I people seem to like the Misfits, you know. They're all name checking, they're all wearing Misfits shirts. So I bought a Misfits album, Walk Among Us, you know, and I remember going to the store and buying it, and then going like this little bar and for a happy hour afterwards with my record, you know, sit there, open up the bag, and you look at it. I'm going, Oh my god, look at these guys, looking at the pictures and reading the lyrics and all laughing. And someone goes, What do you got there? I go, uh, this is either gonna be the greatest record ever or the worst, but I don't think there's anywhere in between. Yeah, you know, well, there's neither one, but you know. You never knew what you were gonna get, you know. Yeah. I just kept looking, you know, whenever I'd hear some bands, or if I'd go out and see bands, you know, I always liked it louder and faster.

unknown 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

You get faster and harder and more radical. That's kind of what I wanted. When did you start playing?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

You played guitar, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, I play guitar now. Um, I started singing in bands in like 1980 or 81, I guess. And I picked up I started to learn how to play guitar, I think, in '84. I got a guitar and learned a couple chords. Yeah. That's why I'm about the same time. Because I wanted to have original songs. It's like you know, I managed to get myself into a band singing, and they're just like, let's do some original songs. And I'm like, I have no idea how to do that. Yeah. Come on. You know, you can play, you know, two dozen other songs by somebody else, just change them around a little bit and make an original one. Or like, oh it's too hard, man. I can't deal with that. It seemed too complicated. Well, I guess I'm gonna have to do this myself. I guess, you know. What was the name of the first band that you did? Uh The Spins. Oh, okay. Like the Bad Spins, you know. Oh, that's a rad name. Yep. Yeah. You see, I I went away to boarding school during high school, and then I moved back to my hometown in Connecticut. And consequently, I didn't I didn't go to high school with anybody there, so or junior high. So I really didn't know too many people, my age range.

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

And you know, after a year or a couple years, I met like some of the local, you know, never do else, and you know, that liked put, you know, I figured out there's a couple other people in town that liked punk rock. So I was like partying with them a little bit, and it was like, oh yeah, we got a band, but we need a singer, you know. Like, oh my goodness. It's like ding, this might be it. Yeah, you know, this might be my opportunity. So I went out and got a microphone and a chord and showed up the next week and it was like with some beer. It's like, let's do this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

What was it like like trying to figure out the the chemistry and the right songs?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Well, they kind of already had a band. Oh, okay. But you know, with two guitar players and drums and bass. And uh oddly enough, I just got back in touch with the drummer again after 45 years. No way. Facebook man.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yeah. And uh, yeah, so you know, they kind of wanted to do more ACDC or Judas Priest or something like that. And I told them it's like, that's not me at all, you know. Yeah. I want to do like the Ramones and like even more punk rock than that. And uh, you know, I don't know. We did a bunch of Ramon songs and some other stuff. And it was fun, you know. We would have backyard parties or basement parties, and you know, we had a blast. Keg beer and just go nuts.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

And you had a scene or were you guys building a scene?

SPEAKER_02 20:24

No, we just had like, you know, the neighborhood kids that they all knew growing up, a bunch of young adults. Yeah, townies, you know? Yeah. The Downies in Stonington, Pocketuck. So yeah, we played there. Then we got a uh we played at like the one punk, somewhat punk rock bar uh that was about 10 miles away. We went and played that, went down a storm, had a blast, and the place closed, and like the band broke up. You know, nobody wanted to. There was no incentive. They'd like peaked after that. We played our gig. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Woo-hoo! You know, you know, bragging rights for the next 20 years, and I'm like, I want to keep playing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

I know people that are still like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

And you know, I knew some other people, you know, in a town 20 miles further that, you know, had a band room set up and they were always good to party with, so started hanging out with them. And we started out another band there, originals band. Uh played some gigs, went in a recording studio and recorded some originals, got on the local club compilation, you know. We were probably easily the most punk rock band on the compilation. But you know, yeah. What year was that? Then we're on a ra this is eighty-three, eighty four, eighty-four, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

And you're recording and yeah, on vinyl.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

And you know, and I'm sitting at home listening to the radio and you're playing my song on a radio. I'm like, Yeah, I can't believe it, you know. I thought this is it.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

You know. Yeah, I mean you turn on the radio when you hear your own song playing back at you. It's like, come on, man, get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Well the next levels in your You know what I thought, you know, then I started going to shows in Providence all the time and meeting people, and I'm like, I should just like move up there, really. Because that seems to be where the opportunity is, and it's like I meet more people up here than I do back in my own hometown. And through an odd twist of fate, I ended up in San Diego instead.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, how'd you how'd you end up out here? Because I know a lot of people end up out here because of the military. That's why my mom and dad ended up out here in I think 1966 or so.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

I had two friends in that town. One was a roommate and the other one was just like a an acquaintance, not a good friend, but just an acquaintance. And uh they were gonna go, their parents worked in Germany, and my roommate had been in the military in Germany, so they were gonna go tour Germany, go all around Europe on a Euro Rail Pass, crash with his parents over there because they were doing some contracting in West Germany or something. Uh, but of course, you know, they blew all their fucking money before they ever got their tickets and stuff, but it's just like we have like, you know, a thousand dollars each left. Let's just move out to San Diego. It's like I got a buddy, you know, he was in one was in the Marines out here. It's like I'm gonna call my buddy out there. He's like, you know, I got two people just moved out of my house. Come on up. So they like packed their bags, boom, gone. I'm like, whoa, they went to California just like that? You're like, yeah. Yeah. Now where I lived, people went to Florida. You don't go to California. Oh, okay. Everybody goes to Florida. Yeah. Because it's closer, it's easier. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

But the weather's like this, and plugging it. It's horrible. Yeah. My daughter's just like.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

So then it's just like, whoa, they went to San Diego. I'm like, who do I know in San Diego? Like, I don't know anybody. Battalion of Saints. I had just met the Battalion of Saints when they'd camp come through on tour, one of their last tours. I think that was in like spring '85, maybe. I'm like, well, yeah. Then I'm like, get out a map. It's like, I think I know where San Diego is. You know, look on a map, I'm like, oh, it's way down further than I thought. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And then did you go to any other thing?

SPEAKER_02 24:20

And then I call them up, I go, uh yeah, I think I'm coming out there too. You know, if I move out there, you guys want to get a house with me?

SPEAKER_00 24:27

And they're like, sure, so well back then everything was way more affordable. Yeah. I mean when we were living in um when I was a little kid, Point Loma and OB, the rent was, you know, actually I think they might have bought their place, but we ended up in Mira Mesa in 71 and the mortgage was under two hundred dollars. Wow. You know, we spent my wife and I spend more than that on a phone bill. You know, but yeah, so you know, the OB when we moved out of OB to move up there is where I basically really started to, you know, blossom as a kid and all that.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

And what got you to punk rock? It's like where did that come in? It just it's gotta be some sort of a bad brain cell in you. It's like because of all the music to listen to. It's like these kids like nice Van Halen music, okay? There's Pon Jovi. But it was degenerate punk rock. What's wrong with you? Where have I failed as a parent?

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah. That's basic. My grandmother was the one that supported that. She got me um what was it? It was an Ozzy, yeah, Ozzy. I think it was Diary of Madman, right when it came out. And her story behind that is she went to the record store in Mara Mesa. So you know, we were in a good enough distance. I could skate down there. And uh, but I never had any money, so but the guy said, Oh, you know, you're pretty hip if you're getting this new Aussie record, and she's like, No, it's for my grandson. And something about he's cool too, or something like that. I don't know if you're not sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

He doesn't commit suicide like those poor boys.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

But my grandma was a crazy, crazy artist and very, very independent. So that's why I think because I'm an artist and all that, but heavy influence. But she just allowed me to fry uh fly the freak wave and punk rock just it made sense to me. The aggression was there. Things I was going through, you know, in the eighties, that's when, you know, Black Flag and everyone else up in LA and that scene started blowing up. So like my wife got into Black Flag really, really early up in Hermosa Beach. I mean, really early because of some guys that, you know, were going to shows and playing records, and her mom and dad were like, What the fuck are you doing with those guys? And she's I don't know, I like the music and they're cool to me.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

They actually take less drugs than the heavy metal kids.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Yeah, exactly. And she's gonna be or the disco kids. Oh, yeah, especially the disco kids. But you know, by I guess it was what late 70s, disco had really I mean, I was burnt out. I never liked it anyways. No, but it was just horrible and drug invention.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

I mean I'm I remember the 70s, it's just like here we go, you know, it's just like country music was coming back, you know, good God-fearing white Christian America was back for the bicentennial, thank goodness, you know, country roads take me home. We got Jimmy Carter in there, you know, people are being born again uh like crazy, and you know, there's disco music, the dance united way, and I'm left going, I hate all this. This all sucks. Yeah, you know, and for a while I was going, what's the matter with me? You know, what is the matter with me that I I freaking hate American culture or whatever, or you know, I'm just so frustrated, I I can't stand it. You know, I thought the problem was me.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

And then I heard Ramon's record and Joey Ramones singing, I don't like anything. And I'm like, wow, you mean you can just say that? Oh, yeah. Wow. See, that's what I'm saying. I had no idea that you could just express your disgust with the world, you know? Because I was thought, be nice, be positive, you know. Yeah, Vietnam War is over, everything's okay. It's morning in America.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah. And then by 76, it was so red, white, and blue. It was compared to, you know, the last fourth, there was a lot of patriotism.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

And I just felt well, because you know, I don't think anybody really felt that, you know, one side was trying to co-opt it or anything, you know.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

It people were what was the 70s? The 70s were great. There was great music. It was up and down, to be honest with you, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

I still have fond memories because of that's when I started skateboarding by 71-ish or so, and I obviously still like skateboarding.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

And um, I skateboarded like crazy until I moved to San Diego. And then apparently people like skateboards out here and stole mine. So yeah. After that, plus, you know, I wasn't the greatest skater, and everybody was skating vertical out here. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna break my arm and won't be able to feed myself. So I said, you know, skating's gotta go. I'm sorry. Let that one go.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Well, it's one or the other. Did you ever have the mentality of if I fall and break my arm, then were you playing guitar by then?

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

So, yeah, that's one of the things.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Oh yeah, and can entirely dependent on swinging a hammer to eat food. So, you know, yeah. Very hard to do with a broken wrist. I tried it, not a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah, it it reminds me of um Ian Mackay or McKay or whatever. He um fuck, I don't remember. He'd sit in somewhere where he had a skateboard. There was a skateboard on tour. Oh, it was I believe it was with Earthless. No, it wasn't Earthless. I don't remember. But there's a skateboard on the tour with them. He might have been doing Fagazzi at this point. And he wanted to ride it, but he's like, I have my whole band and the crew that are relying on if I can't do these shows, we don't eat.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah. You know? And and there goes next month's income. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Uh oh. And then it's you know, you're and I know of bands that have had that happen. Someone on tour decides to go and skate and they get all fucked up and then they can't play, and you know, but the it was great hearing that story and seeing that he still had that fire in him. He wanted to skate, oh yeah, but he's also professional enough and he you know, he's really stuck to his guns, which was refreshing back in the day. And um, but that was when when you were growing up and you were doing bands, were you like clicking with no? I was already grown up.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

So it's like for me, punk rock and like bands and everything is more of an adult thing. Okay, you know for 18 plus I always had a job, you know. Well, you know, mostly always had a job, and you know, I could afford to go do stuff and get into it and follow it.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

At what point did you um meet up with uh Daryl and Dude Meatwagon? Oh that was uh that's that's a story people want to hear.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

That was in '87. I I moved out here in '86, and I was living in Mira Mesa and going to shows at Jackie Robinson Y and Adams Avenue Theater, Spirit Club, really starting to meet a whole bunch of people and uh hanging out with the BCT people and like doing some work, listening to tapes, and you know, helping them package some stuff up. And uh then I had to move and I realized everything kind of like North Park, Normal Heights, that area was really the best place for me to be, or Ocean Beach. And uh so I moved to Normal Heights. First week there I went to laundry mat. I saw Daryl in the laundromat. Uh then I went down to the whistle stop and happened to see him playing in his band.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

I'm like, oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

This guy must be a neighbor. So I think I I went up after his band and said, Oh wow, we must be neighbors. You know, I like your band, pretty cool. I live, my name's Andy, I live in a neighborhood, and he's like, you know, oh, you guys play music? We're like, yeah, yeah, we play some music. I was like, well, let's get together and jam because this band just broke up. You know, that was our last gig. So he was instantly available, and like a week later, I think we went and started, you know, trying to play some music with Darrow.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Yeah, in summer of 87.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

And then I have, well, I'll look it up later. I'll do it for the documentary, but I have a show, um, calendar entries. Yeah, I think it was you guys in RMSD. Yeah. Which one would it be?

unknown 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

So it's like, you know, so our first times that we started practicing, we went to uh, it's not there anymore. It's mus it was music power rehearsals in East San Diego. It's like almost out by where the tower is now. University in Euclid. And it was like a gnarly ass neighborhood back then. Total Oriental Boy Soldiers, Lao, Hmong, and Cambodian gang members you know, gang fights, shootings, all the time. Yeah. It was a nasty little neighborhood. Yeah. And uh that's where the rehearsal place was. And we rented an hourly room and went in there and started trying to figure out some music. And the second time we did that, Scott Sellers was there. But uh that's where we met Scott Nelson from RMSD, was playing an infamous symphony across the hallway. He wandered over, he was like, Oh, you guys are funny, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

He was like, like his band members are like, What are you doing hanging out with those fucking fags? You should be in a fucking fag band like that, you know. He's like, uh, maybe I will be, you know, and he was.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Eventually he was. He quit his metal band and went, you know, more public. That's oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Because I booked them. They were kind of hard.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah, his cousins were in that band, still are.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

And they're all cool. I like those guys.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah. Well, I just seen um.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

You know, I actually met became reacquainted with Jason and the singer Greg and uh associated personnel when Scott Nelson passed last year or the year before, and I went to his funeral, and it's like, you know, seeing old faces I hadn't seen in twenty five, thirty years.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

It's good, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah. Still keep in touch. Um that's one of the reasons why I'm trying to do this too, to get everybody reconnecting and then, you know, just have the story told is basically it. Mm-hmm. Because I've seen so many people just kind of skate over and there's so many intricacies of this town, and there's so many bands. At when I did the newspaper thing, the interview, I think I had like four hundred something bands that were local. And then there was some some other um you know, national touring, but the owner of the club at that point was mostly dealing with them, so I was dealing with local stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

And not everyone played through me for reasons, but you know, I don't blame them at this point, but you know, it's not I've already told that story. But yeah, it was crazy the amount of talent in this town, and still to this day. Like my wife was when I told her that you're coming over doing this, she got excited because she remembers what show was she talking about? It might have been the RMS RMSD you guys show. No, no, no, no. It was it was at the Y or somewhere else. But like I said, she's you know been going to shows for actually longer than I did.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

So yeah, so you know, one you know, we were we started out with a with a drum machine, Daryl had a drum machine, so we're like trying to, you know, we're showing him, me and my couple friends from Connecticut are showing him some of the songs that we had been playing, and you know, he's showing us some of his stuff. I'm like, this is not gonna work, I don't think, with these people. Then the next time he brought Scott Sellers with him on drums. And uh, you know, how you doing, you know? He starts playing. I'm like, oh, you know, I can play with this guy and start jamming, you know. Yeah. I'm like, all right, this guy can play, you know, it sounds good.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

And uh, you know, so after that practice, you know, Daryl's like, yeah, you know, we don't really want to play with you guys anymore, you know. And uh, you know, and you know, I told my friends, it's like, you know, I think I want to go play with these guys, you know, because I think, you know, I'm just gonna go play with these guys.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

It's just the chemistry is in there.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Yeah, the chemistry was there. It's like we we it seemed like we would work together. So uh, yeah, we just started playing and coming up with songs like almost instantly. You know, it was just yeah, it was just like, you know, I'm and I'm just like flying blind, kind of going, I don't know. Yeah, it seems to be working, yeah, you know, and I was at a low point in my life too. At that point, I was like, I had smashed my car and uh realized that I really had to quit drinking and fucking get my shit together because I was like really just fucking slipping. Yeah, and it's just like then this punk rock opportunity came up, it's like I don't know why, but I I guess I have to go do this, you know, and that kind of became my my mantra or my oh whatever, my modus operandi after that is just like you know, if opportunity knocks, you should really open the door and go out and say what they want, you know, because you never know what's gonna happen. You know, one thing I learned after that is that you know, when you're down and out, it's just like anything is like a gift from heaven. You know, you go around the corner, ten dollar bill, woohoo! We're eating for three days, you know? Or or you know, something bad could happen, but when you're all the way down, it's usually nowhere to go but up.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

You know, so you know, I just kept playing the music, kept playing in the band, and you know, this led to that, led to the next thing, next thing you know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

What were some of the earlier bands that you guys were playing with? Um, like the early when you first had enough to do a show with Meat Wagon.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Oh my goodness. Who uh band called Dose X with my friend Danny, who's up in Washington now. Uh I think we played with Infamous Symphony, which was an interesting thing, because you know, they just completely swamped this with their overpowering manliness. And a lot of hair. They were like a tough guy thrash metal band, and we definitely weren't.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Yeah. Uh remember back then the Oslan would would have been around about the Oslan that turned into psychotic waltz.

SPEAKER_03 39:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

They were around at that time as Infamous Symphony. Um, what was the band?

SPEAKER_02 39:23

Rosebuds band before Oh, it was Night Soil Man. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Night Soil Man, uh, Social Spit. We played a lot with Social Spit. Yeah. We were like their little brother band. Yeah. Um The Infant Addicts. Okay. It was like Steve Summers from Sprung Monkey. Strong Monkey.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Uh, there were a few other early. That's early stuff because didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 39:46

Oh, yeah, this would be like this would be like 87, 88 era, you know? Bunch of El Cahone bands, because by that point I think we'd started practicing out at Nestor Studio.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah. That was that was a great place. Poor practice.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

It was an interest interesting place, yeah. I practiced off and on there for the better part of 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

So well, speaking of hair, remember Dance Macab? Oh, sure do.

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yeah. Uh my friend Dan from DOS X was in another band with the not Rob Macab, but Gino. Gino band. Yeah, and Rob, maybe it was Gino and Rob, you know, and that's how I first became aware of them. Yeah. He had a band called 30 Days before Dance Macab.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah. With uh Mike Nevison, who is our security at the club that I did. But yeah, they were I mean, he uh Mike had his hair just a fucking mane of just Viking manhood. Oh yeah. And then you know, them up there, I like their look. Cause they had, you know, that was the easy when everybody wanted to be a rock star. Yeah. You know? And that's what pretty much pushed me even more into punk rock. 'Cause I you know, like I I had an opportunity to play with Flipper when they played the club because uh the bass player was so fucked up and just needed some barbiturates so he could even out and get on stage. And luckily it worked out because I didn't know enough of their songs, but you know, I I like that. It's you know, sludgy, drony, just out there in left field and you know, taking the conformity of a a pop song and just kind of laying it out, smashing it down a little bit and then walking all over it. So I love that concept.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

So the places we would play back then would be the Whistle Stop, 2581 University, uh Palisades Roller Rink reopened up with Mark Langford doing all the production stuff there and and Fine Line booking, and for some reason, like early in our meat wagon career, like we were only together a few months, and we're like playing there with the exploited totally green bands, and we're opening these shows, and I'm going, Oh my god, what's happening here?

SPEAKER_00 42:09

You know, didn't um Harlan Yeah, Harlan was I don't think Bill Silva was doing iguanas. Did didn't there wasn't iguanas yet? Oh, okay. So this is pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Iguanas hadn't started yet. Palisades was kind of like uh, you know, a nice place in the mid-city to run some good-sized punk shows there.

SPEAKER_04 42:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Because, you know, before then uh the shows were you know mostly Tim May's stuff, some Todd Zamania Che Cafe, maybe, Jackie Robinson, why until they didn't anymore. But you know, there was a hard time getting venues at the time because nobody wanted to be associated with punk rock violence. Carpenter's Hall was like fading out. Uh Fairmont Hall was kind of Fairmont Hall was fading out. We did play at Fairmont Hall, I did play there with Broken Bones and the UK subs and funeral march. That was like that was one of those, you know, the phone rings one day. It's like in the morning, oh hey, what are you doing tonight? Do you want to play with the UK subs and broken bones at Fairmont Hall?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

It's like, uh, sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:16

So you know, we trondled all our stuff up there. Go over there in the afternoon. I think we did a sound check, and somebody goes, Hey, you see that guy, stage managing over there? I'm like, Yeah, what about him? You go, you know him? I go, never fucking seen him before. That's Mike Ness. I go, no way. They go, yeah, really. Go see him. So I went over and I was like, Holy shit, it is Mike Ness.

unknown 43:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 43:37

Yeah, well, he was like laying low, you know. I guess the UK subs came through and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna go with you, you know? Yeah, go go see some shows, you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

That's odd. Charlie Rules, he's my mentor. I look up to him so much just in that he's still doing it. He's always I think I don't have it in here. Um, he signed a picture for me, which I thought was cheating. You know, a promo picture. But now I I cherish it because I haven't talked to him in in years.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

But so you know, it seemed to me just in the blink of an eye, I'm going like, uh, can we even play in a band? How do you even play in a band? Especially in California. How do you do that? You know, to all of a sudden I'm hanging out with Wadi and Smeeks and you know, playing with the broken bones. And it's literally, it was like in less than a year. Yeah. You know, I'm like, wow, this is just crazy. You know? That's when I realized it just like things are gonna happen that you don't can't even anticipate. Just go with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

You know? Because I remember you guys being a seminal band in San Diego. So me getting a big one.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

We were like a laughed-at band, you know. People, you know, I knew other people who had like serious bands, and they like, you know, they pretty much told them they thought we were a joke band.

unknown 44:54

You know?

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, I remember. Which, you know, to a certain extent, I guess we were kind of jokey or goofy or whatever, but we were serious about serious about being, you know, fucking stupid. And, you know, we had some drive and ambition, I guess. You know, we just kept going. Put one foot in front of the other and see what's gonna happen. And, you know, next thing you know, you start from playing Wednesday night at the Spirit Club. You next thing you're on Thursday night, you know. And you can play open on Friday night.

unknown 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

And eventually, you know, you you work your way up the ranks and you're playing Saturday night and you're headlining or direct support for somebody, you know, direct support for Chuck Dukowski or something. You're like, this is great. Yeah, you know. And I was so thankful, it's just like, wow, we have like, you know, a whole couple clubs we can ping pong between and you know, work our way up. It's just like I can't believe this is actually happening.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah. And see, another the reputation preceded itself because you guys are.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

That stuff happens.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Did you put you guys put out a record in you? Oh, yeah, a bunch of records. Well, a few records. I'm gonna have to go through mine and see if I even have any. I don't I still this crazy thing, still to this day, and I've been doing this since about 14. I don't have any vinyl.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

Really?

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

Wow. I've never been I have like almost all my vinyl that I ever got.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Well, I mean, it's in one of my bands and one of the Oh, your bands. I I have um where did I do it? Oh yeah, I got a small collection up here because I got the little record player for over here. Gotcha. And then I've got another sh, I don't know, we have five, six hundred over there in the other room. But yeah, I've never put out a vinyl record with over two dozen bands that I've done.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Did you do uh cassettes and stuff? Yeah. Yeah, lots of cassettes.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Yes. When I did a band called Urine, we had a urine sample.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yeah. I remember that. I remember that. I think I had a copy of that one. Oh, really? Yes. That was when I met you. Oh, okay. Back then. Then you then you had poor after that, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Uh it was poor before urine. It was oh, I thought it was the other way around. Yeah, no, and that was with um the guys in Damnation. But then me sing, and that's how I knew about the metal world because of Damnation and well I knew I moved out to uh Santee in 86, 87 to get sober.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Oh, you're gonna get sober in Santee. Yeah, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

I actually did pretty well, but that's where the whole because of the Wiener Schnitzel out there, that's where I got hooked up with short-lived, who was the oppressed, and then short-lived. Um, and then at the very beginning of the Wiener Schnitzel before doing the club, I um I met Deadbolt because I was working on a compilation tape. And it was actually other side productions. Um The Cowpunks, Missing Children, um, there was a psychic dykes. I thought about missing children. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

What other band was oh man, just it came to me and went away again. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

There was the ninth. They were like the ninth. Yeah, I got the the record. Wow, there you go. Oh, and as a matter of fact, on the back of my jacket.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

It's like, oh, wasn't there this guy, my friend Ara, was telling me about the ninth or something? I'm like, wasn't he in that band? You know?

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Jamie.

unknown 48:27

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Um, yeah, no, that's where we all because I remember one time, you know, it's like we're, you know, playing a few gigs and like starting to get, then all of a sudden, the ninth is here. I'm like, what the fuck are the ninth? You know? Yeah. And I saw him play, I'm like, fuck, these guys are good, man. Yeah. And that guy just looked like a fucking rock star or something, no. I don't know. What can I tell you? Is that the guy's name, Era? Era, yeah. Yeah, the singer and guitar player, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Yeah. And then um Ken was the main singer.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Didn't they do like a movie or a documentary or something?

SPEAKER_00 48:57

They did uh Romeo and Juliet video. And it's for their song Romeo and Juliet. And then um Oh god, I forget his name. Um, their friend they did, because I worked on that video, they did a short film of a clown um to a Frank Sinatra song. And the clown ends up shooting down Oh, I remember what it was. So Ken's getting ready for a date and he's doing all the date things, puts on his snazzy white suit, goes out to the garage to open up the garage, and then uh Convertible comes by with two clowns in it. The one in the back, you know, shoots them, and that was their little short film. But then um on the video that they put out, they uh did a song live at Iguanos, which in the front row of that is um Jeff Kelly from Short Lived, who I'm he and his brother Sam and I were doing the wastaways now. And then um Chris Fields from Short Lived John Cougar concentration camp, the dwarves and all that. The two of them right up in the front. We were all so fucking young. Back then I had a giant mohawk. It basically looked the same way, minus you know, the beard and a lot more wires and rings in my face. Yeah, I remember a lot more hardware.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

But yeah, the ninth came in and we're just like, wow, how come I never heard of these guys before? You know, and I think they're from Spring Valley, as far as I know. Yeah, and they were really good.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah, actually, Jeff, my bandmate, still talks to Aura and he's holding on to a ninth record. But he's just he won't produce it. He's too much of a perfectionist, is a nice way of putting it. But he had um Wade from Unwritten Law at one point playing with them, and yeah, that's they did put out Behave on Tape, but other than that, but that's a seminal, another seminal band for me. If it wasn't for them, I probably wouldn't have had I guess enough.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Other bands that played around at the time. There was a band called Infantry. Infantry? Uh then there was Dick's Army, I think, from Coronado. I don't I don't even remember. Then there was there was another band called Shut Up Dick, too.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Yeah, yeah. Todd.

SPEAKER_02 51:22

Yeah, and uh then there was the endless amount of PB bands. Uh-huh. Yeah. When I moved in here, I met John Reese at Conservative Itch or CI, whatever you want, whichever CI it was that week. And I think Funeral March was already going at that point. Santa Claus.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Uh Eminence, speed metal band.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

We ended up sharing our first ra rehearsal place with them. Oh wow. Uh what other bands? Oh, Blood Lake from North County. Oh, yeah, I remember yeah, Blood Lake was great, man. They were really good. Yeah. Uh personal conflict, I think, was still around when I moved out here. So Battalion was a good one. It was like personal conflict version two or three or something with Dave Sharp.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

I think Battalion would have been trash. Oh, they they had already broken up at that time.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

I moved here and it's like, oh, I broke up.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

George is another one that oh, did he um he had put together a band a few years ago and used my garage. Well, it's actually my neighbor's garage down there. Because we used to practice down there and he had put together a band and um before going on tour. So I've been wanting to talk to him for a while and get his growing up and everything in this scene. Oh, you should.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Because I remember back in the playing up in the Bay Area today, uh Santa Rosa today, I think. Oh, they are? So Yeah. Santa Rosa and Oakland are doing like two shows. Not today, uh, excuse me, this weekend.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

Who's in the band with them now? Do you know?

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Oh, it's Londis and Dogo and Grimm from Systematic and Deadly Dispute and uh Londis Jr., I think, on drums. We played with them last summer at the My Town Festival in Ocean Beach. Oh, yeah, yeah. Killer. Really? Oh my god. Oh yeah. They brought it. Yeah. All right, good. Yeah. It not they did not come weak. Okay. That's the whole thing. It's just like, you know, you have a band with a legacy like Battalion of Saints. I always wanted to be in Battalion of Saints or some version of Battalion of Saints because, you know, I wanted it to be good, you know? Yeah. So whenever you see some other version of a band, you're just, you know, there's a natural tendency to go, you know, they better be good.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

And they usually are, you know. Not like I could do it better, but you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

I'm the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

No, it's just hope that they're gonna do it right, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Yeah, at least do it justice. Oh, yeah. Or they certainly do.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

If it looks like it's fun, and I think, you know, I think George called up Lawness and I'm like, oh, we should we should, you know, get a version of the Saints going again. And he did, and then I don't think they practiced last year. Then they came down and like did the show, and I think George was like, Oh yeah, this is gonna work, you know. Plus those guys are all tight. They you know they work together, so yeah. Yeah, they're not gonna bust up.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Well, that's the thing about being in, you know, a band for a long, long time is to have that chemistry and just that knowing what someone else is gonna do. Oh yeah, it's pretty important. Because that's what I'm going through as we're writing new music for the Waste Aways. Sam, the main guy in it, he's he brought in Jeff a while ago, um, after their second album. And so we're basically it's just the three of us now reforming it, so we're rewriting all the songs, and we're literally doing everything from scratch, which is fun for me.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

That's good because you get it on the ground floor, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Yeah. Instead of trying to play someone we we are gonna do some of the other stuff, but I play so much different than the bass player before, and that's the one thing with when I do covers, I play so much differently, I have to find my own way, or else I just get frustrated. It's like, ah no, fuck it, just you know, I'd rather write my own original music. And if it sounds like someone, that's cool. But I don't want to play someone's original music and fuck it up. And then be like, oh no, it's punk rock. No, it's cool, bro. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

You know, yeah, that's weird because that's kind of reflects back in the situation I'm in now with Strict 999. There already was a Strict 999, and I went to go see him play, and it's like, we're Strict 999. It's like, well, we broke up, you know. The singer told me Dennis says, Oh no, we broke up. So he recruited me to play guitar, and we ended up, you know. I said, Well, you know, why? You guys are all right, you know. There's I listened to that disc of yours, there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, you know, why don't you do that?

SPEAKER_00 56:01

And that's with Dennis Quick?

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

He's another one that I'm I gotta get in here now that I get this ball rolling.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

But um so yeah, I mean, so I walked in where there was already an album done, and it's just like get some new guys together, you know. It's like, can you play this album? It's like sweat, let's do it. Come on. Yeah, you know, so we learned that real fast and then just it started writing new songs. There you go. Yeah, that's the way if you can get over the hump and start the oh yeah, it took us like two weeks to learn their their set, you know, a couple rehearsals, really, because those guys can play, what can I say? And uh immediately come up with new stuff, you know. It's like there's if we're not gonna come up with no new stuff, there's no point in doing this at all.

unknown 56:51

You know.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

That's one of the places that I'm at is if I'm not gonna be writing music and pushing it forward and trying to stretch boundaries, then there's no reason to do it. Yeah. But that's why I've got this project with these paintings. I'm writing a riff or two, and I'm saying it to my buddy Chris. Excuse me. And then he's putting it together, bringing in drums in his studio, and then I'm doing the artwork for it, and we're just kind of putting them out. You know, there's no it's not really looking at a live band, but when Agent 51 slows down enough, I think we'll try to get like a drummer and then do a three-piece to do, you know, a few songs here and there. But the main project for me right now is the wasteways. But I'm constantly writing music. I in the middle of the night I'll come up with an idea. I use the garage band on the keyboard. Really?

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Because I I've been wrestling. You know, hopefully you can remember them and bring them to practice and work out with people.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

But I'll do my first thing.

SPEAKER_02 58:02

I rarely have the discipline to sit and just write at home anymore. Oh, I don't I have to be in a room with other people and see what happens, bounce ideas off people.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Yeah, that's how I am. I'll come up with an idea and I'll get the basics, but I'll let it mole over in my head. If I'm not in a room with other people, then I just get bored. And then, you know, Pugsley, wherever he is right now, he likes it whenever we plug in, we play kind of loud. So if I'm on the couch there, I have my little practice amp. So I'll grab a guitar or one of the basses and I'll get it just high enough and he starts to snooze out. But then after seeing him snooze out, then I start getting tired. I'm like, ah well. I'll put it up.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

So what were we talking about before that? Uh we talk about Meat Wagon Records or something? Yeah. I don't know. Or the start of Meat Wagon?

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Yeah. And then um, so what was the I wrote it all down.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

I bet you I could remember it without peeking at my notes. Hey, why don't you look at my notes and go, what the fuck's up with that? Uh oh, Meatwagon Forms, drunk driving, and first gigs. We made it through the first page. This is good. So now we're in 1988. What are we doing here? Demo tape? Playing at the Spirit Club. Yeah. Thanks for the Spirit Club. It's like you can go to play there on Thursday night and like make enough money to get a bean burrito. Really cool. Very important when you're a starving musician. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Eat a few handfuls of stale chips.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Thanks, Mad.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Well, there was a the Mexican restaurant in the corner with the subway and all that.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

What's the meth lab practice?

SPEAKER_02 59:43

Oh, yeah, yeah. So uh, so we were a normal heights band when we started, and uh Scott Sellers lived, our drummer lived on like 30th in Adams, and he says, Oh, got us a new practice place. We don't have to pay Nestor no more. Because we had been practicing with the Slurps and with Eminence, and Nestor went out there in the psychotic episode, shooting around. We said, Yeah, maybe we should uh get our own place to play. So consequently, we were like uh right in the corner of Adams and like Iowa Street or something like that, and come to find out that uh this guy lived there, he was a meth dealer, and he had like his little closet practice space that we could practice in whenever we wanted to. Plus easy access to meth, you know. Which is important when you're going on the road. Uh so yeah, that was crazy. You know, one day I'm uh I went to work and uh came home and like turned on the four o'clock afternoon news. It's like we're live at a drug bust here at normal heights. You know, a dangerous methamphetamine lab was broken here. I'm like, oh, looks familiar.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Did you leave equipment in there?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Yeah, we didn't have any of our stuff in here at the time. I think we had just moved out of there, you know. But uh God, we wrote a lot of meat wagon songs in that little room. You know, that was free practice place, and we just sat in this little closet, like I'm, you know, it was a frickin' closet, and just like came up with a lot of songs, all the early meat wagon classics we pretty much wrote there.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Well, then is that where the sense of like I mean, you guys were I wouldn't say goofy, but you wouldn't like take yourselves totally serious, and it was in the music, even though it was really professional. I mean, you guys were a fucking Thai band, but you could tell that you know, hey, don't take it so fucking serious. We're here to have a good time. Oh, come on.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Daryl, you know, Daryl was like Daryl is a very interesting guy. So Mewan hadn't had a lot more art damage to the sound than people might think. Because he, you know, all of a sudden you're just gonna hear ah ah, you know, screaming da-da stuff in the middle of a song. You're just like, well, where the hell did that come from? You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

Uh yeah, you know, it's impossible. Because, you know, and the other thing is, we were middling musicians who eventually got pretty good at what we were doing, but you know, we could always play enough to do the shows. Yeah. But we kind of wanted to get high and have some drinks, or I didn't have any drinks. I quit drinking early. And just get out there and have some fun, you know? Because we saw all these other bands that were important professional musicians and they were gonna make it in the industry. We're like, you know, you're playing with us. You know, who do you think you are, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:42

Like, come on. So playing in a meth lab, did that inspire the more chaos, or uh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

It was a very productive period because we got to write a lot of songs. Yeah, you know. That's a thing. You got a place where you a place that's you know local to all you and it's kind of free, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

That's inspiring.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

And you got a young band that needs material, you're like, let's get together and work on some stuff, you know. So we play, you know, twice a week. It's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

That's awesome. It's really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

What else is on there?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Alright, so you got maximum rock and roll on here. And then um bicycles and AA plus. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Yeah, I'd been a bad drunk driver at the end of 87, so I wasn't supposed to drive around, so it was like hard to get to shows. I'd ride my bicycle like all over San Diego at that point. You know, sometimes be riding off the band practice with my guitar and the handlebars, you know. People look at me like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm trying to be good for once in my life. You know, I'm trying to fucking do the right thing, keep my nose clean, and like go to the meetings the judge ordered me to go to and like, you know, yeah, and to try to actually, you know, follow some instructions for once in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

Did meetings or anything like that help you?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Uh it made me realize I didn't want to go to AE meetings. Yep. You know, that's well, it became very apparent you see some angry people who are in there. First of all, they're they're like, you know, what are you doing here? Oh, the judge ordered you to come here.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

That's a just you should get out, you know. You don't want to be here, you shouldn't be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:23

Yeah. Like, it wasn't up to me, you know. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

You know, I'm appealing to my higher authority, which is, you know, the guy with the keys to the jail cell. And I'm trying to stay out. So yeah, you know, I rode my bicycle all over the place. Tried not to drive, you know. I was allowed to after a while, I was allowed to drive to work and back, so I tried not to abuse that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

But like, you know. You gotta get to a show every now and again. Yes, and yeah, not easy. So I can't say that I never uh drive drove when I wasn't supposed to. I did, but I did uh quit drinking because I realized it's like I gotta get around in this world, you know. Yeah, I got it from here, I gotta get over there. You know, we got a show to do and stuff. So if I can't keep from drinking and driving, either I gotta quit driving or I gotta quit drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

So I quit drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:16

That's kind of a realization that I came up with.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:19

Also the realization, it's like, geez, you know, here I I quit drinking for a couple months and now I'm in a band and we're like doing all right, you know, it's like maybe I need more of that, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

Yeah. Yeah. See, for me it was the alcohol, which has been my crux for my whole life, basically, my adult life. I found it I could drink certain things to kind of offset what was going on in my head, but then I started to realize that I'm seriously just chasing away a self imposed depression. So then I started looking at other things that I wanted to do, and eventually things just started fitting, so you know the Celebratory, have a good show, or something happens, I'll go home and have a drink, and then it's it ruins exactly what I just went through. So that's what I had to go through for a while, and that's one of the reasons why I just committed to this project to do it for a while. Because the drinking is just and that's another reason why we don't go out that much because we don't drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:19

And we're you know so I'm over thirty eight years now, so that's incredible. I know. Who the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

We have wine at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:28

In a world where you're you're you revolve around going to dingy dive bars and meeting with crazy people and you know everywhere you go, people trying to give you you know, when you're poor, nobody wants to give you a drink. When you try to quit drinking, everyone's handing you one, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

Well, about what about in the 80s with the coke and all that? Was that going around any circles that you guys were in?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:53

Or uh no, I mean cocaine's expensive, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

You know, I was never a coke head really. I would do it if somebody else was chopping them, but uh yeah, I would take acid because it was cheap. Three dollars, you could be high all night into the morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

That was that, and then um, well, obviously, especially East County with the meth and Mira Mesa that got really bad in in the eighties, but um then heroin started going around for a while. Yeah, and that started sucking everyone in.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that and I'm just like, oh, I'm staying away from that. Then you start, you know, you're playing in punk rock circles, heavy metal circles, run around. It's just like, yeah, okay, there's arrowing people over there, you know. Yeah. I'll stay away from that. I mean I'm almost disgustingly clean cut, you know. I drink a jolt cola and you know, do my show. I don't even think I was smoking pot for like the first year after I quit drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Yeah, I didn't. I barely smoked pot. I started when I was really young and just the drinking by 21. It might have been because I was living in Sante. But I moved out, moved back to OB. Oh god, so it must have been about 90. Because I was working in the club at that point. And then yeah, it's I was squatting on someone's floor, then I was squatting.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

I'm doing all right. This is cool. Someone else's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Yeah, but you know, I was running your sliding, dude. But it it all worked out because now I've had this freaking place for almost 20 years, so and our daughter just moved to Virginia and engaged, and she just turned uh 26. Amazing. So that's something I didn't fuck up.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

There you go. Yeah, so you know, it just became apparent to me that I I was really gonna have to be much more sober than I was if I wanted to do this rock and roll thing. Because I had hard enough time playing straight. You know?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

Yeah. So with all this and then getting sober and just like going through, you know, riding your bike to get to practice and all that, at one point did it start to like even out and when did you guys head into the studio?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Um you know that that whole period probably lasted until fall 88 for me. Uh say May 88. I think we went to uh Nestor's and did like an eight or eight or ten song tape. I don't know. Uh printed up a booklet and packaged uh tapes in the booklet and stickers and all kinds of in badges and stuff like that into plastic bags and sold them off and off the record. Sold them all, as far as I know. You know, sold a whole bunch of those, and like to this day, people are like, oh, I like that song you guys did, you know. That one song, I like that one song you guys do. You know, yeah. They always want to hear like the the first stuff that they associate your band with.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

But you know, that did well, and you know, it led to more gigs around San Diego, and next thing you knew, I think by uh the end of 88, Mystic was knocking on our door. They wanted us to cut 7 inch. Good old Doug. Yep, Doug and Phil Raves. And I think I'm not sure if uh Social Spit was our hookup through that since we were kind of like their baby brother band, but uh I don't know. They came around and signed up a few bands in San Diego. Uh Dum Dum Boys, Us, uh Social Spit, and I don't know who else. Battalion. Uh I don't know if they ever signed them up. That was like earlier, you know. That was earlier and they were repackaging stuff, you know. Yeah. That they did had the rights to. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:43

Yeah. Wasn't it something along the lines of if you recorded with Doug, then he would put it out, but you don't get anything else. And yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

So his theory was just record everybody. You never know what's gonna hit, you know. It's like throwing mud against the wall. One of these is gonna stick. Yeah. You know? Something you recorded 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

I think that's the story of anyone, everyone that's made it, yeah, all of a sudden it just it fits comfortably in what society needs, and then someone comes along like Bill Silva and picks you up and then makes you huge. And then you're doing arenas.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:22

Yeah, so I was thrilled, it's just like Mystic Records, because I come from a town called Mystic, Connecticut, yeah. And I knew about Mystic Records. I was collecting them before I even moved to San Diego. And then I'm on the label.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

Isn't there a record store there now called Mystic?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:39

In Connecticut? Yeah. Yes. Mystic Disc. It's still there. Yeah. In Mystic.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:44

I think I saw it on that documentary. Because it's it's resonating. Yeah, it's still there. Unfortunately, you know, Mystic Records didn't resonate as strong as the records. I mean, I have a ton of it everyone does.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:59

Yeah. And then it's like, you know, now I'm on the label. It's just like, this is fake or something. So now I'm on the label. It's like, cool. So how many records did you guys see with them? Uh we did one with Mystic. And you know, we got a box of records, it just went like that. You know, still my dream, dude. I still have a couple, you know, I have a couple, you know, different cold they came out in four different colors, I think. Four different colors. Cliff probably has them all, you know. I think I have three out of four colors. Uh but that, you know, that really helped us get gigs up in LA.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

What places up in LA would you guys play? Uh, we played in East LA at this club called Eugene's in Pico Rivera. Awesome place, you know. Um about an hour, 15 minutes to get there, easy shot, right up to 605. Cool people, and we played there with a lot of great bands. And every time we went there to play, I'd turn around, it's like, oh, it's Des Kadena. Or, you know, somebody famous that I knew from LA would be at these shows.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

You know? So we played there. Uh, we ended up playing the Coconut Teaser in Hollywood. Oh, okay, yeah. Uh Shamrock in Hollywood, uh, some places in Long Beach, Orange County, played a few places, played at the old doll hut up there, Club Mesa, some other place in Costa Mesa too.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

How about I'm stinking showcase, but I don't think showcase had started by that point. I think it was a little bit later. Because then Izod had the one down here as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:42

Oh, yeah, we never played it at Showcase place. You know, you were you were our showcase theater.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

What about um there's a bowling alley up, I think it was wasn't it a bowling alley up in Orange County somewhere. We had played. It wasn't with 45 Grave, it was um God, I can't remember who it was. It was I remember it was definitely was it Karen Black? It might have been Karen Black when I was doing Cinsen 77, you know, with Stoney from Diablo 44 and all that. What happened to Stoney? Where is Stoney? He he and Candy moved back. Where's the hell is he from? Not Norway. Just Scandinavi. He he moved Denmark. He moved back.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:34

That dude was a rock star. Yeah, I met that guy, and I'm just like, this guy is a rock star, and I will always come see this guy play.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:43

And he's but he was so much fun. I mean, he and I would do our he would cut my hair, and you know, he and I wrote the songs for Cin77, so it was It was just like I would go see Um He's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

He was playing with like Dick Smiley band doing that, uh Diablo 44. Uh then I saw him with uh The Diabolics. Wasn't he in the Diabolics too, playing guitar?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:09

With Candy? I believe so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:13

And then um he did a stint with Debbie. No, Diabolic, not the Diabolics. There were two bands. One was called Diabolic, then there was the Diabolics from England. Oh, okay. And yeah, Stony was in Diabolic too, and I'm just like, this guy's everywhere. This guy's so fucking cool. I should be that cool, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:31

You know? I was cool for a while because I was in a van with them. Oh but you know, it it didn't. That was during that time I was trying to get sober one of the many times. So I was drinking O'Duels and I would go to practice and I would go through a six pack of O'Doels during band practice. But Eric the drummer at the time was driving, so for the m the majority of the time, every now and again, I would have a car that would make it there and maybe make it back.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

Did you have any experiences playing where you're the sober one and everybody else is too fucked up? And you're going like, Oh, this kind of sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:07

Yeah, later in life.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:08

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

Yeah. And then two, I started to notice um just being hotboxed in a room with other people smoking and then coming home. That's what I'd started to notice a while back with one of my bands. I'm driving home on Friday nights after practice and either have like a glass of wine or something, just to, you know, whatever, trying to not drink, but still trying to be social. And I would come home so fucking high. And I would go to grab the bong, okay, you know, settle in and talking with the wife, have a bong, and I'm like, I'm already fucking high. And then that started to bug me because I was driving higher than a kite just from being hotboxed.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:52

Yeah. And I started thinking, Yeah, I really shouldn't be doing this. You know, I would find myself like, you know, accidentally drinking a beer or two, and then it's like, oh shit, no, I have to drive somewhere, you know, and I'm going, Oh, I shouldn't be doing this. I know better. I'm supposed to be smart. Why am I doing this?

unknown 1:17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:10

I'm too smart for this. How did I get in this situation? And the guilt trip. Guilt trip. It's just like, yeah, you know, if you've ever been to seeing a cell door slam on you, you're like, oh, this sucks. Yeah. I don't like this. Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

I was 18 when that happened. Yeah, no, no, no. But that was because of meth. And that's why I moved to Santee to get clean. Because I was 18.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:35

And um Was there a rehab place out there you went to, or just get away from people?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:40

Just because my dad lived out there. Uh huh. So he offered a camper shelf for a pickup truck and it was in his garage. Yeah. So, you know, I could be in there, and then my brother well, one of my brothers was living with him, and my stepsister was living with him. But they had bedrooms. So I had but it was it was fine. I mean, I was homeless for the better part of the year during then, so I had, you know, a roof inside of another roof. That was fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:14

Yeah. And it's I got sober to figure out that it's like, well, you know, even though I'm sober, I still got all those same problems. Yeah. Now I can just deal with them better, you know. Just click them off one by one.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:24

Yeah. And then plus going full circle into that, for me too, is I wanted to be there for my band. So I want to give them all my attention and not be just, you know, thinking about the next drink. No, we're we're here, we're hanging out, we've made it this fucking far, you know. We're all 60 is right there, and we're still, you know, doing our thing and not growing up. There's no room for alcohol and drugs in that. And then plus how many people were, you know, casualties of that. And then the freaky ones, like uh Tank from Deadbolt, really young, passing away because of heart attack or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:05

No surprise, dude. It's like I watched that guy play and he's got a string of cigarettes.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:10

He's chugging, chugging, and he's smoking cigarettes like they're going out of style. I'm like, that's unsustainable, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:18

It's still that and um Gabe Serbian, another drummer that was talking to Justin about it today. That's still shit. What the fuck? So much talent. But let's get back to meat wagon because I'm sure still, and then plus I have to tell my wife all these things that we talked about before.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

Where are we at now? Where are we going? Are we in 88 yet? Where are we? Yeah, we're Mystical. We made it to A meetings.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:43

Um 89 Mystic. You did one record.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:46

Yeah, we started it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

And then um oh, Texas Tea House. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:56

That was weird. It's like we played down there a few times, and then it's like, you know, hey, the owner likes you down there, he wants you to play down there like every, you know, every second Friday. Like, we have a recurring gig all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

That you don't have to pay for.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:13

Yeah. And it's not LA. Yeah. It's like, great. Well, we never paid to play, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

Yeah, I never did too. But that that I didn't even think of a residency.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

Yeah, but it's like you're looking at it now, I'm still like no, so then it's just like, okay, so we go there, and you know, the first week you're like, yeah, you call your friends, uh, social spit, come play with us. Like, yeah, that's great. Then you realized, you know, next week you gotta get two more bands to play with you. So, you know, that's when we got to know like all the other bands in town. Deadbolt came in one time. We're like, it was Deadbolt, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:44

Yeah, the scariest band in the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:45

Well, they set up their stuff, you know, and Harley's got like, he's like bringing in like his PA made out of like car stereo speakers and stuff. I'm like, no, dude, we have there's a PA here, you know, mics and and speakers. He's like, oh no, we're gonna use our stuff, okay? I'm like, okay, man. And you know, so I got to see an early Deadbolt set, and I was just like, okay, then these guys are freaking strange.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:14

I love it. Yeah, I got chills thinking about it because that's the whole thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:18

And then of course, you know, it's just like well, here's something you're completely gonna understand. You know, so we would book lots of bands and with us, you know. Generally the show just went freaking fantastic. But it's like, do you think those bands are gonna book us, get us shows with them somewhere else? Fuck no. Yeah, I lost none of them, you know? Really? Yeah. So then, you know, after a year or a year and a half, that residency thing kind of ended out.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

It's like, all the people come down here and they're all up front drinking beer on the sidewalk instead of inside buying it for me. I'm like, I can't help that, you know, they're punks, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:59

You know, I just finally got sick of us. But, you know, in that time, you know, like let's say Deadbolt, for example, you know, they went from like playing laundromats and playing the Texas Tea House opening for us. Next thing you know, they're playing at the El Cortez, you know, they're doing really well. And it's just like we're way out in the fucking cold.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Just going like, fuck, dude, throw us a crumb, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:23

Harley asked me if I could fill in and do a European tour. And at that point, between you and I and the rest of the world, because this is going I'm I figured, well, I don't do coke, so that was already like a red light. But the other thing was I can't be in Europe. Number one, I was doing urine and since in 77 at that time, but I didn't want to be in Europe that far away from home. I I yeah, I was back drinking again, so I was off of my own duels kicked. And I'm I just thought, if we go there, number one, if I let 'em down, I'll never because it's Deadbolt. You know, I'm just this peon guy that plays in all these crazy weird bands. You know, I'm not I don't want to fuck them over in any way, and and I also don't want to be left in Europe. Yeah. And then not that they would do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:19

I just you know, what can I say? You know, Deadbolt is such a freaking institution. I've never seen a band that has done more with less. You know, the first record sounds pretty much like every other record to me. And good God they have got some mileage out of that, man. I mean, I admire that, to be honest with you. You know, they are another band. People probably thought, what is this? Some fucking stupid joke. Look at these guys, they can't even play. Yeah, you know, people go, oh, fucking Harley, you can't even fucking play. My sister, little sister could play better than that. It's like, yeah, who cares? You know? Doesn't matter. Yeah. Completely prove that it's not how much you can shred. It's whether people are having a good time and if they buy your atmosphere that you're bringing to them, you know? Yeah. And it's always a good time. Still. Yeah. I saw them last year and grinder comes out.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

We were gonna go because they're friends with these family through the restaurant. They had a restaurant down in Obi, and then they moved to college area, but um, that was many, many moons ago. So whenever we get a chance, we like to go and see them. And Gary will pop into my wife's work down at the mobile every now and again to just check in. But yeah, I love those guys to death. I one of the very first bands I was working with, and they're so their niche, it kind of reminds me of the.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:44

I mean, they did create their own niche, absolutely like taking the cramps, yeah. But it's not really like the cramps, neither. You know, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:55

It's not dirty rock and roll, it's very subdued, very atmospheric. You know, truck driving son of a bitch.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

Yeah, but you know, most people out in San Diego, you know, for some reason, you know, there's a little bit of a southern and a little bit of a country thing that's just kind of in the air. Like you just what can how I mean know how to say it, but you know, like classic country and truck driving music and stuff. It's just like a lot of people know that stuff, even if you don't play it. And you know, like they manage to catch some of that stuff, you know, the ghost stories and everything, and work it right into their music. It's perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:34

And TJ, you know, I mean, what can I say? Yeah, I have a lot of admiration for the band.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Yeah, I love those guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

I truly do. And actually, um And Gary's retired now, so you know, yeah, they're probably gonna play more.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

Probably. I tried to get a job with parks and recreation, and um I was talking to him about it. I would I had applied, but then this was years ago, and then I thought, I don't really want to work. For one, I don't want to work for the city. Um, I don't really want to work for anybody. I kind of have a problem with that. Maybe it's an authoritative thing, maybe it's just because people fucking suck and just fuck off. I'll do it better on my own and I'll take all the money. Um, you know, I'd still have that fucking edge. But V, my wife, was always like excited if I had that, then I get the benefits, and then I get to see Gary Moore and you get the benefits, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

But people want a steady paycheck and benefits. Because here's something that nobody wants to talk about, or people just don't fucking remember. It's like, you know, when I started playing punk rock in San Diego over here, it was the end of the Reagan era. Remember what that was like? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It sucked. He had fucking dementia. The mental hospitals turned everybody out on the street, they're cutting social services everywhere. We're in a fucking recession. All right, we find out that the president is selling uh arms to uh Iran, our mortal enemy, def to America, you know? And uh yeah, there was a long, bad recession that lasted right through the George W. Bush years, you know. Things were tough. Even if you were able to get a job, there ain't no job to get, you know. I was a carpenter, and you know, it was tough.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:15

Yeah, there wasn't, you know, the recession, the one when was that, 10, 12 years ago or whatever? I was oh no, it was longer than that, but because I was which recession?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:25

I've been through so many of them now.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:26

That's the thing that I'm starting to realize at at my age.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:29

It's a cyclical thing. I've been through a bunch of them, I remember. And now it's just like, oh, COVID has come, oh, there's gonna be a great recession. Bring it on. I'm a punk rocker, I've lived through these things, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

You might be complaining about eating a box of mac and cheese. To me, that's luxurious living. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:48

All right. This is easy. I still try to.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

The more times you do that, the less scared you get over how bad things are gonna get tomorrow. You know, you're like, Oh, I made it through that last time.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

I learned how to make refined beans. Oh yeah. I lived off of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:04

Mighty tasty for years.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

I still we always have tortillas. I'll make a giant pot of beans. My wife's Mexican, so I have the inside of the real ways that it's.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:15

You didn't even have a wife.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:17

And then um English muffins. I I do English muffins with peanut butter. That's staple foods for us. And then, you know, we might get kind of like we'll do we try to stay away from beef as much as possible and eat heart healthy and all that, less salt and you know, all the things that you know back in the the Reagan days and who who was doing oh yeah, Michelle Obama and the food charts and all that. We just try to eat healthy because they have too many sodas and too much sugar. I had a frickin' beer belly. I've lost about forty pounds since I quit drinking and then started getting rid of sodas and then eating healthier, fasting in between meals and just trying to be around for a while. Yeah. And then, you know, the clarity of the mind and everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:09

Yeah, it's like I've seen I see a lot of people go from like, you know, late teens or early twenties, you know, and then just age along with me, you know, as I've been here in San Diego, and it's just like everybody starts out slim skater kid, full of energy, and then they get some beer and they're like next thing you know, they're going, hi, the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:32

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:36

There's all the other issues with that too. Is you know, there's just there's so many problems.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:41

Again, again, oh my problem was my biggest problem was meeting my wife, you know. I never had a problem with my weight until I had somebody who cared for me and started feeding me all the time. And it's just like, geez, I'm not used to eating well every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

Yeah, well, the restaurant, and my wife knows how to cook, so you know, like um, I was thinking about doing orange chicken and rice for tomorrow so I can make her a little bulb to take to her work. But she does these overnight oats, so I get my fruit with the oats, and you know, I'm not sitting on a rocker in the front, you know, telling people to get off my lawn. I'm standing up telling people to get the fuck out of it's the smart thing to do if you want to live.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:27

But yeah, at some point you start realizing it's just like, geez, you can't just abuse yourself, it's unsustainable, you know. Yeah. And a lot of people are just like, oh, fuck it, I'm gonna party till I fucking die. Well, here's what happens is you're gonna break down way before that, you know? You're not just gonna be you're lucky if you go on one big massive heart attack, you know. More likely you're gonna stroke out and you know, ooh, have a fucking drool cup. You don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:54

I I know of a couple people that are hard partiers that had heart attacks and still are hard partiers. Oh, sure. And it's scared, that's one of the reasons why I'm kind of weird about I get around certain people I've known for a long time, and I get kind of nervous and anxious because it's have they changed, you know, what sort of energy.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:17

Well, some people you just don't want to hang around anymore because you don't want to be a party to their suicide, you know. Exactly. They want they want you to be around when they collapse so that somebody can call the ambulance and you're like, ah, that's not my gig, man. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:32

That's my whole hit it the nail on the head. Yeah. So let's get back to where are we on our list? Texas CNN.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:40

See, it's a good thing I wrote shit down. Yeah. We can talk otherwise, but I tried to gather a couple thoughts. Again, these are you know, O B Residency, uh Las Vegas. Oh yeah. You know, we started going out and playing in Las Vegas and stuff. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:56

House parties or Oh no, playing clubs and stuff. Wow. 'Cause I know there's a scene out there, but there's an underground scene.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:05

I found a found a great picture of us playing in Henderson or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:09

No way.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:10

Yeah.