CHASE Your Dreams Podcast
The CHASE program (Community Honoring Adolescent Success in Education) is an organization that provides educational support, community events, and wellness programming for youth and families across Kansas.
Our podcast serves as both interactive content for people in our programs, as well as self-development for the general public.
We believe that everyone can CHASE their dreams by focusing on balanced living. Join us!
CHASE Your Dreams Podcast
Rising Above Bullying: Wyatt and Laci's Journey Towards Empowerment
Have you ever been pushed to a point that sparked a transformation? That's exactly what happened to Wyatt Starz, a Topeka, KS youth who took the torment of bullies and turned it into a force of good. Together with his fiercely supportive mother, Laci Reamer, Wyatt shares his journey on our CHASE Your Dreams podcast that is sure to leave you packed with inspiration and practical wisdom.
Uncover the transformative power of forgiveness, as articulated by Laci and Wyatt. Their insights into overcoming the long-term trauma of bullying, recognizing signs of depression, and creating a safe environment for their family. Whether you are a parent, a teacher, or someone who has endured bullying, this episode underscores the need for a supportive network and knowing the right resources. Dive into this moving narrative and let Wyatt's story embolden you to be an advocate for change.
Okay, cool, welcome back to the Chase your Dreams podcast. This is, brad, a little different episode today. Usually our episodes are short snippets of life, skill type things, but this one's going to be a little longer format. We have very special guests in the house. Let them introduce themselves here in a sec. But today's topic is going to be on bullying, and, as many people know, this October is National Bullying Month, as it is every year, and so we just wanted to kind of bring some awareness to the story and the insights that have been gained from our friends here, lacey and Wyatt. So, without further ado, let's go ahead and introduce ourselves. Lacey, I guess you got the mic. We can go first.
Speaker 2:I'm Lacey, I'm mom.
Speaker 1:Is it Lacey?
Speaker 2:Reamer Okay.
Speaker 1:I know a Reimer and a Reamer. Well, now you know a Reamer. There you go, it's perfect, I'm sorry. Okay, thanks, lacey. And well, we also have. And, by the way, apologies, we do have to swap the mic back and forth, so hopefully it's not too distracting. But yeah, you can just kind of turn it. There you go, it's going great. All right, and we've also got Wyatt, wyatt. And what's your last name?
Speaker 3:Stars.
Speaker 1:Wyatt Stars, man Just born to be famous. If only I had a name like that, Maybe my music career would have panned out. You're a musician too right.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I play the cello.
Speaker 1:You play the cello. How long have you been doing that?
Speaker 3:Two school years.
Speaker 1:Two school years, Okay, and I'm curious what drew you to the cello, because you know it's like it's an interesting instrument.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's. I didn't want something small. I also didn't want something large, so I just kind of went with them between, and a lot of people at my school in that time didn't choose it. Yeah, it's very unique.
Speaker 1:It's a very cool instrument to know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it hard to bow? I've always thought. Because I play guitar, where your fingers are directly on the frets, you know your right hand and your left hand With the cello, your left hand's on the frets and you got a big bow right.
Speaker 3:It's not. It's definitely not, as it's definitely the easiest one to bow an orchestra, because the violin you're up here. And then the bass, you're all the way down here, and then the cello. You're kind of in between the cello's, in between of everything I like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's that sweet spot in the middle. That's awesome, and I'm also curious why your last name is Stars and you're obviously born to be a star with a name like Wyatt. What would you say is your dream? What is the Chase your Dreams podcast? So before we jump into, you know the topic of bowling and all that. I'm just curious if somebody asks you what's your, what's your dream life look like, what would that be like?
Speaker 3:Um, probably. Uh, this is not going to make sense with my last name, but, uh, probably being Alignment.
Speaker 1:Alignment Okay, yeah, and also.
Speaker 3:I'm just hunting outside and working and I love being outside.
Speaker 1:And I could have used you in my neighborhood about four days ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we. I was at my dad's and we lost power for a day and a half and one of my neighbors, uh, trail and clip to their whole porch. Really yeah.
Speaker 1:And did you so? How long were you without power? So, for anybody who hears this, in Kansas City area we had a big storm, you know, a week or so ago and a little less than a week ago, and a lot of the city was out of power for a long time and the energy company said it was the worst outage they've ever experienced. And they actually had to pull energy companies from other the surrounding states to kind of make it all piece back together. Yeah, Um how long were you without power?
Speaker 3:Uh, my dad's, we were out power for about a day and a half.
Speaker 1:Day and a half.
Speaker 3:And we decided to go stay at a cabin. So it wasn't we kind of. We made sure our dogs were okay, we put them downstairs and then we left to the cabin. So, we weren't too bad.
Speaker 1:Very cool.
Speaker 3:But it was definitely interesting. My dad was at work and he he's a firefighter and he lost power at his station. Thanks, so.
Speaker 1:And you know you're in trouble when the when the fire squad is without power.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a, that's a very cool again you just you surprised me. There's a lot of people I've met are like you got to meet Wyatt. He's so cool, he's so interesting. And now I get it because how old are you?
Speaker 3:I'm 12, gonna be 13 in September. Okay.
Speaker 1:And you didn't choose a guitar, the drums, you chose a cello, which I think is amazing. And you don't necessarily need to be an astronaut you want to be alignment. What is it about being alignment that draws you in?
Speaker 3:Um, I feel like it's just doing stuff outside, hard work and it's helping people. I also um thinking about being a firefighter and it's just I kind of like helping people yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you're definitely doing a lot of that already and we definitely want to talk more about that. But very cool, Very cool. Um, sounds like you're real outdoorsy. You said you like to hunt. Do you have hunting dogs?
Speaker 3:Uh, no, I deer hunt.
Speaker 1:You deer hunt.
Speaker 3:And I also fish a lot with my grandpa.
Speaker 1:Really yeah. Do you know how to like clean the fish and everything?
Speaker 3:Uh no, we haven't really. Uh, he we've been just fishing out of his pond and we haven't really kept anything. It's just kind of we just hang out. Yeah, we just hang out and have a good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the biggest fish you ever caught?
Speaker 3:Um, uh, probably like a three pound bass, I'm not. I'm just gotten into really, really fishing, but yeah, that's cool man.
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you're real, uh real, sportsman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. I liked it.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and so we we're here today to chat a little bit about your story and, uh, I know you know a little bit about it, but I wanted to kind of hear from both you and mom Lacey about kind of you know, this situation in your life that probably, uh, probably kind of hurt, you know, probably was a little bit um, unfortunate, and but I also think has really shaped you at an early age into becoming, you know, much better person on the long run. For all of it and I was thinking just this morning about this conversation I was thinking it probably felt like one of the worst times in your life, but it also probably created one of the best growth spurts that you can ask for.
Speaker 1:Because you're going to be miles ahead of people. Your age in terms of, like you said, helping people, you know, humility, kindness, all of those things through this experience has probably given you those gifts. Yeah, um, but let's, let's chat about it. So, uh, it kind of in your own words what was the experience like? What? What happened? Let's start there with kind of what happened. What was the initial bullying that happened?
Speaker 3:Uh. So when I was in fourth grade, um, I I read the bus home every day and uh, this kid started just telling me mean things, just just doing it pretty much to all my friends on the bus and me, and uh I went home and told my parents and uh, they uh said something and then kind of stopped and then it sprung back up and then uh, one night I was thinking about uh doing something about it, like uh, not to the bully, but just turning something around from it, and uh, I told my mom that I think it would be uh fun to start it, just a I don't even know, I don't know how, what it would be.
Speaker 3:I don't really know how to explain it, but just starting something out of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you knew so this kind of bad thing had happened and you kind of took that experience and that energy and just thought I want to create something out of this that that makes it a good thing and not a bad thing. And then that turned into what's the name of your organization.
Speaker 3:You got a friend.
Speaker 1:You've got a friend. And what? What exactly do you do with you've got a friend?
Speaker 3:Uh. So we uh donate uh to schools a lot. We do their uh pantry thing and we uh give them snacks and stuff to give kids that uh can't like. They don't have stuff at home. We give them hygiene products. We get them uh. Last school year we uh filled some lunch things I can't remember the word right now, but that's amazing.
Speaker 1:That's amazing work and I really commend you for taking that initiative. You know, just to start it, just to be like, hey, I'm kind of down about this thing, but I'm going to make something of it and I'm going to start it and see it through and look at the impact it's had. I even saw you were the head of some parade or something. Let's chat about that. What was?
Speaker 3:that? Uh, I don't, I can't remember what year it was, man, all the all the stars, the events of why it starts.
Speaker 1:It's hard to remember.
Speaker 3:I think it was 2021? I don't know, but I was the junior grand marshal in the Topeka at Christmas parade.
Speaker 1:Man, that's exciting. Yeah, Well, that's great, wyatt, that is really, really great. When the? You know, one thing we've talked about in our program and one of the podcast episodes we did was about positive self-talk and it was about, you know, there's the voice that we use with each other, like we're doing right now, but then there's also a voice in our own heads, and sometimes that voice can be more negative than positive and that can sort of dictate how your day goes. So if I, you know, make a mistake, if I forgot to hit record on this podcast, I might be beating myself up and probably, brad, you're so stupid. Like you know, there's a chance for me there to either be negative in my head or to be positive, and I imagine that, through the circumstances on the bus with the other person, it was probably pretty hard for you to remain positive throughout. What was your? What did you tell yourself? You know, to try to maintain self-esteem and confidence when somebody else was trying to bring you down. Do you remember?
Speaker 3:Um, I didn't want to, uh, first of all I didn't want to do something back to them and I don't want to say something back to them because I know they feed off that, yeah, the boys feed off, uh, the reaction and uh. So I just kind of told myself well, I know, I want to do something positive about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, I just kind of told myself that the whole way through, Told yourself that you didn't want to fuel the fire and you wanted to turn this into a good thing. Yep, yeah, that's awesome. And what advice would you have for someone your age if they're feeling like they're bullied? You said the other thing that you did which I really respect and appreciate about you is that you spoke up for yourself and you went home and you told your parents about what was going on. So for someone who's your age, who might be feeling a little bit afraid or they're not sure how to speak up for themselves, is there any advice you can give?
Speaker 3:Um, just don't really think about it. Well, honestly, think about it, but don't make it a big, big thing. Yeah, uh, you can. Just I just I don't really because I didn't really have to think about it that much. It's just I knew to tell my parents and stuff, and just don't let them get to you and just tell them as soon as you can.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Tell whoever you live with your parents, just to, uh, just do it as fast as you possibly can, I guess.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really, really valuable point to make because, like anything bad, the longer you let it get away from you, the worse the situation can become. So you did the right thing by saying it early, and that's great advice for anyone who's enduring a bullying situation. So, wyatt, I just wanted to uh make sure that people knew where to find your project. So do you guys have a Facebook or a website, or how does that work for your friend, Probably be more of my mom's thing but, yeah, we do have.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty sure the Facebook is the big thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and, um, if I think of more questions for you, we can swivel the mic back over. Uh, but for now let's go ahead and pass it over to mom. So we got to hear from Wyatt and we know the effect that bullying can have on the person who's being bullied, Um, but I also wanted to make sure that for anybody who hears this, who's a parent of a child who's being bullied, that they could just hear your experience and some of the things that you also went through and learned. So can you kind of walk us through? When you first found out about Wyatt being bullied, what was going through your head and were you you know, how were you planning on addressing it?
Speaker 2:Sure. So you know, I think Wyatt covered a little bit of it that we knew some of it was going on. He came and told us you know, hey, you know there's this kid saying really unconsisting things to me, like it's really getting to me Um, do what you want with it. Um, I'm just telling you, you know which. He did the right thing. And we spoke to, um, the proper people. You know, you kind of go up your chain of commands. We spoke to the bus driver and she said I'll handle it, you know. And then it seemed like it was doing better and we didn't hear much from Wyatt. But we can tell that like his kind of demeanor changed a little bit and he was coming home and like begging not to ride the school bus. Um, there was days that he didn't want to go to school and we're like this is really odd, because this kid would go to school year round on Christmas if you let him. Like he loves school, he loves his teachers, he loves being able to learn, like he loves everything about it. And so we were just like man, like there's something you know really going on. So we reached out again to the principal and it was like listen, you know we think something's going on and we didn't really know the depth of it until one day we got a knock on the door and it was our district school resource officer, a fantastic man. He actually happens to live down the road from us. Wonderful person. Um, he's known Wyatt for some years.
Speaker 2:Um, his son rides the school bus and, um, his son, I guess, was really upset and was telling his dad about what Wyatt was going through on the bus. And so he came and knocked on the door and was like hey, I'm just here to check on my buddy Wyatt. And we're like well, what do you mean? You know, like what's going on? And he kind of shared more with us and we were like you know, that's when Mitch and I were like man, like this is getting more than we thought it was. Then what's why? It's telling us. And we, you know, quickly realized that that child, who, who was doing the bullying and unkind things, was on the bus when Wyatt would get on the bus and was off the bus when Wyatt would get off the bus, or was on the bus when I got off the bus. So it got to the point where he was like I don't, I don't want to tell like, I don't want him to see you, I don't want him to see me telling the bus driver, I don't want him to see me telling parents, so like he thought maybe it would end so with that information.
Speaker 2:There was others that I guess you know brought attention to it.
Speaker 2:Teachers, students brought it to the principal, of course, the school resource officer brought it to us, had meetings, met with different people.
Speaker 2:It turned into, you know, kind of starting in the hallways and then at recess and then it kind of turned into a bigger group forming of the bullying taking place and it just got so big that you know we tried to put plans in place of where you know they wouldn't see each other or they, you know, the teachers would help and Wyatt had a check in, check out person every day that he'd check in in the morning with, he'd check out at in the afternoon with, before he left for school and kind of had that safe person in school and it was a teacher that he really trusted, had before and trusted and she was. You know, we felt that if he tells her something, you know she would tell us and let us know. And there was a lot going on and we spoke to principals, vice principals, superintendent, like it was a big chain of command that we went up of and the role we took of that and I kind of went on a little route there. I don't know exactly my thoughts now.
Speaker 1:It sounds like I want to kind of Circle back a little bit to the beginning of what you said, which was a Wyatt's behaviors had changed right when you started to recognize that there was an issue, and I know that that's. That's Something that probably a lot of parents go through, especially if their child's afraid to be vocal about what's going on right. What are some Signs, would you say, that someone might be being bullied? If you're a parent, right.
Speaker 2:So Wyatt Usually is a very talkative kid, he's very upbeat, very happy, very, you know, and there was just kind of a sudden change in his whole Personality and we're just like man, something is really bugging him. You can kind of tell that he was just kind of the way even he walked. You know, I've had we transferred him to a different school and I had a teacher who Attends both schools and saw the difference in him. She texted me one day and she's like man, like Wyatt's head is held high. I just saw him, he's happy, he's smiling and she's like what a difference. You know, then it is, and so it's. You could really see it.
Speaker 2:The signs are, you know, a lot of children go into Some depression and have some anxiety, not wanting to go to school all of a sudden, not wanting to do the homework, not wanting to talk to friends, just kind of shutting them in themselves in their room, just very unusual. For for them, you know, they I think they're in their own thoughts and have the thoughts of what they're being told and said to Can really get to them and eat them, you know, so to say. And so the not wanting to go to school, not wanting to ride the school bus was huge, just a different demeanor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just overall different meter. And you also said you sort of had to fight through what feels like maybe a little red tape or hierarchy, right, what? What is the? What is your advice for Parents who are trying to navigate that?
Speaker 1:and I and I ask because my brother was an administrator for a while- and he was an assistant principal and, being his brother and close friend, through that I saw sort of the flip side of this, where as an administrator, you're fielding a hundred issues a day, right, and they're all high priority with each of those individual families, yeah, and so there's this sort of dichotomy between the parent who really needs their needs met and the administrators who are just trying to put out fires, and so I think the Way that the conversation is approached probably absolutely.
Speaker 1:Like what's your advice for someone who's trying to figure out how to initiate this with the school?
Speaker 2:So the approach is, you know, obviously, as a mama bear, it was very heartbreaking and first I was just angry and I'm like, why is that happening? Why is the school bus driver letting that? You know, allowing that? And then you kind of got to sit back and realize you know that school bus driver has so much responsibility on her hands that she is. Her number one is is the children's safety. She's watching the road, she's on the road, she's got 60 kids in the back that she can't monitor behavior wise, as much you know. And so it kind of turned into.
Speaker 2:And then in our district it turned into, you know, you go with the bus driver, you explain all of this, what's happening. She says, okay, I'll take care of it, but her hands are a little tight as well. And so then you go to the school principal and you're like, okay, this is happening. But then his hands are tied because it's like if it happened on the school bus and the bus driver didn't see it nor hear it or, you know, report it, I can't do anything, that my hands are tied because the school bus is a different part of the school than my school building. If it happened in my hallway, I can do it and you're like, okay, so there's got to be some connection along the way of the discipline and how they handle it. And that was a huge thing that Mitch and I went into. We we spoke at the school board meeting, we spoke with superintendent just kind of a different way to change their policies to where it can kind of be more like you know what happens on the bus happens on the on in the school, to the same rules and policies to follow, because it was just kind of like everyone's hands were tied.
Speaker 2:And so, as a parent, you know, you went through the rage and the heartbreak and I had to step back and realize you know that bus driver and that principal has so many things to do a day and so many kids to handle and take care of and, like you said, you know which which fire to put out. And as a mom, I'm kind of looking at it as like I don't think you're taking this seriously. Like my kid is seriously getting bullied, like he you know there's this kid told him to go home and kill himself, like what, like what are? Why are you not right here with me? You know, I'm just like, you know, and and and they were just in a different sense.
Speaker 2:You know, our experience wasn't great and so it's just kind of having that documentation. We document everything, every email, everything that we had. If you didn't get anywhere, you went up the chain of commands like we started where we were supposed to, with the bus driver and the school transportation, went to the school principal, went up from there to the superintendent and the school board and Kind of making that wave. You know, unfortunately you shouldn't have to go to that links, but that's that is the proper steps to take. Is the chain of commands to keep going up, to get change and, you know, have it better, not just for your child but for the other child involved and other children involved or, you know, the district as a whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it is one of those things where, if you are looking for kind of the silver lining right it's kind of like with Wyatt and your situation you know the fact that you're being vocal about what you went through and what you learned from it is Going to have a ripple effect that you won't even be aware of, because someone somewhere will hear this and It'll totally change the arc of what they do about their situation. Similarly, you went through what sounds like a very Arduous process of just trying to be heard and seen but as a result, you've been able to Effectuate change by actual policies changing. So if you're looking for that silver lining, it's like Sometimes the pain that you know one person endures can actually create a Greater good for everybody else. What are some of those takeaways that you've had from this whole process? And I don't like to hear from Wyatt as well, but since you got the mic, lacey, what if you had to name just a few of the big things you've learned throughout this? What would? What would they be?
Speaker 2:There's. There's a handful, I would say. Unfortunately. We learned that we are alone in this journey Is since we kind of came forward and was open about it as much as private people as we are. Especially Mitch and I were just very, you know, kind of in the background and but this is something that you know not just happens in our state but worldwide to children. You hear every day of children taking their lives because of bullying and, and we, we didn't want our child to be another, you know another one of those numbers and that's not okay.
Speaker 2:And so we really made moves in that as in we, we sat down with the superintendent who, who really was the one that helped us and Made moves for us. You know he, he kept saying, you know what's like we do need to do better, like I'm really sorry this happened to Wyatt, but like this is you're right, like it's bringing attention to us. I didn't know this was going on. You know it's nice to have a parent perspective, met with the director of Transportation as well, and they put in place like para's or volunteers on the bus to help the bus driver, and not only that, but different trainings that the, the staff can do over bullying, trauma, all that kind of stuff, and Really it's connecting with other parents who they're like.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, we've wanted to speak up and do this and, you know, be there and speak at the board meetings too, but we didn't know how. Like, we're going through the exact same thing and it's just connecting with them and a time of such a darkness because, like, we know what they go through. Unfortunately they're not alone and that, I think, is one of our biggest takeaways, as much as we would never want our child to go through this again. We've met some an amazing people along the way and have helped with that. You've got a friend. It's just amazing to see. It's sad really to see how much of a need there really are.
Speaker 2:There is out there for. Children in need. You know the lunch balances that we've paid, the. You know personal hygiene products, like a child just getting so Esthetic over getting a toothbrush and toothpaste to take home to mom and dad, like you know what I mean. Like a lot of them, you know, choose to pay the light bill or put food on the table, and so having those, those baskets, to be able to hand out to them has been Humbling, I guess, and I just wish it wasn't a need in this world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we wouldn't know that unless we went through office, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it sounds like you've learned a lot and you know, and you probably, you're probably saving lives along the way Because we know there is that. I mean, I know that probably seems like you're the savior like not that type of vibe, but more so.
Speaker 1:Just you know some of those things. Like you know, I remember being in school and, like you know, sometimes somebody got bullied for the way they smelled or something. So even being able to provide a what deodorant stick or something could be the difference between some really dramatic bowling situation and it really is.
Speaker 2:It makes a difference. It's, it's, yeah, it really does something that you take for granted every day, like a hairbrush or a pair of shoes. You know, yeah, and this world is different than we grew up in. You know, it's, it's, it's changing and there's a lot more negative. And just to bring some positive into that, and I think the biggest thing, you know for myself, I've never been a confrontational person. I've always been kind of like the negotiator, like okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah listen, we can do this. This is okay, like it's gonna be fine, but you're put in a role of where your child is is in a really dark place.
Speaker 2:And it's really hurt and doesn't want to go to school, it doesn't want to see his friends, doesn't want to. You know, it changes you in a way of it kind of awakens something in you. I think that is like you know what, like not just as an advocate, but as like you've found something in yourself that, like you know what Like changes can be made Like this, not just within yourself, but like you can speak up, you can be, and I'm like you know what I can Like. You know Like I never used to be and now I'm like, yeah, this is it, like this is the hill I want to be on, not just for my own son but for everyone. And so it's been kind of changing with that too, because I've never been a person who speaks up and does that and now that's all people want me to do.
Speaker 2:And I'm happy to do it, you know.
Speaker 1:So, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the changing part of me when I did that was what a Wyatt's friends who was gonna move on to middle school with him this year.
Speaker 2:His mom contacted me and said we're not sending our son to school next year, we're gonna homeschool because we know he's Wyatt's best friend and we don't want him to be bullied as either.
Speaker 2:So and that made me stop in my tracks and think you know, my son is such an amazing person and that, like you know, people are just so afraid to be the friend that people need and something like that is stopping them from standing up, and you know what I mean. Like, cause, you can be a friend and stand up, you can do the right thing, you can teach your child to, you know, be there and stand up for others. But to be afraid of that just killed me, as you know. Like he lost a friend, but he also you know the fear that that mom had. I'm like man, like it kind of put a fear in me too and I'm like, no, we're not gonna allow that. That's not gonna be a fear of ours, because he is gonna make friends, he is gonna be a great kid, he is gonna stand up for others and others are gonna stand up for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I went down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that shows a lot about your character and about you know, the family you've created just to not succumb to that fear, like you said. Right, I'm gonna swive that over to Wyatt. I'm curious, wyatt. What are some of the main things this will be? Our comedic relief for this heavy conversation is watching everybody fumble the mic around. Um, what would you say, wyatt, or some of your like, if you had to name just a couple things you've learned through this process? What would they be?
Speaker 3:Um that the uh. Some teachers will kind of uh kind of act like they're doing something, which they are, but and then some are doing more, like my uh one of my teachers that we were it was she was probably my favorite teacher I've had. She one day, uh the uh. She came into my homeroom class and uh asked about it and stuff and then she started checking out on me every day.
Speaker 1:So it kind of taught you how to seek out and find people that you trust and connect with at the school. Yeah, yeah, what would you say it's taught you about your future If you had to name? I don't know, it's kind of a big question.
Speaker 3:I don't know If there's something that you could apply maybe about strength or Don't I kind of already said this but don't don't react to them, don't let them, don't feed them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and maybe in the future you might you know if you run into a similar situation. You've learned from this one and you also know not to feed whatever that could be too. Yeah, so that's really useful to know as well. What about, uh, you know you've got such a high level of awareness, for you know the people who bully and what power is there in forgiveness. Have you thought about that much?
Speaker 3:Just they just knowing that you forgave them. They might not, like, do really realize it, but it feels good to forgive them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is that something that you feel like you've been able to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, like I know my mom said this before on a different thing to be able to not go to a basketball game and then see the person that bullied me and not clap for him but clap for the teams and not not do anything, like not just I just kind of act like he didn't do anything to me, just kind of act like he's another person.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love hearing that because it's taking the power away from the bully and putting it back within yourself, where it belongs. Man, I love that. Let's go ahead and pass it over to mom too, because I know, lacey, I know that there was not just bullying at school but, um, even on the parent side a little bit. I know that you and Mitch both went through a little bit of your own bullying of sorts. I mean, I'm not sure if that's a super common scenario, but for anyone else out there who you know kind of gets into that back and forth squabble with another parent because, as we all know, this involves multiple families Right, what happened there and what did you learn from that?
Speaker 2:Happens. Um, you know, people told us we were receiving some very unkind and nasty messages from the parents and we've done nothing but try to, you know, meet with them and be, you know, help their child, help them because you know there's something going on on that child's end too, you know, and their end. So we never came and attacking them. Like why would you do this to our child? Why would you do? You know, like, how dare you? Like you know, some people are like you just need to have Mitch show up at the front door and really tell dad how it is. And that's just not who we are, that's not.
Speaker 2:I don't think you get a good sense and reaction and outcome of that, you know, kind of killed them with kindness, I guess, you'd say, because I think that's really what they needed. Whether they took it, I don't think so yet. And the forgiveness is a big thing because, I'm not gonna lie, I don't think I'm there yet as a mom, as a professional and as a person, I'm probably there, but as a mom, I still see the rippling effects and the messages that you receive, as much as you don't want that to get in your head like it does. I found myself multiple times asking Mitch like do you think I'm a good mom? Like, why am I a good mom? Like and he's like you're letting them like. You know, let it be like you're letting them and I was, I was letting them win and so because I knew I was a good mom I mean I'm not the best mom in the world, but you know, like the kid is, you know he's turning out okay, like I think it's like, why?
Speaker 1:it's like give me the mic, give me the mic.
Speaker 2:It's like I can tell you a lot, but, like you know, it's just and people kept saying you know, like you need to forgive them, you need to let it go, and you're like how can you, when you're receiving these horrible messages, or there's times where Mitch and I would wake up in the morning and scrub off nasty things off our driveway or eggs off our car because you know what I mean Like it's like how do you not let that get to you?
Speaker 2:And then you look at and it was Wyatt that helped us through it, because you know as much as he says that you know, like mom held the flashlight, but like I really was in the dark, I had no idea what I was doing, point where I thought I was helpless.
Speaker 2:Like I looked at him and he's doing all these amazing things for others and he's just like you know, he's forgiven the kid, he wants to clap and cheer for him at a basketball game when he makes a basket, and I'm just like I need to be there. I need to be on that level because Wyatt showed me, you know, like you know, and it's different. It's a different feeling because he let it go and he let it be and I'm still like you need to be held accountable, and I think that's why we went through such strengths to get policies changed, because we weren't getting anywhere personally with the parents or anything, and so we felt like we had maybe some control of it, to where we can help and make movements and change, and that's where I kind of found rest and assurance in it. But then you look at Wyatt and he's just like let's do this, let's do you know, I saw this and it's hard, it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure it is, and I love the fact that you both were able to sort of share the leadership a little bit, because when it first started, wyatt, I'm sure you were looking to mom as your flashlight, like you said, your light in the dark, and you're really relying on her to lead you to a place that was better than where you're at, and then fast forward a little bit of time and you're leading the charge because you've forgiven the bully, you're going out into the community, you're achieving things, doing good things, and all of a sudden mom is looking to you for inspiration, and so I just think that that's really beautiful, that you were able to kind of share the leadership at different moments when you needed it. Something you said was that she was your flashlight. Can we elaborate on that a little bit? What did you mean by that, wyatt? And then I also want to hear mom's perspective.
Speaker 1:We're going to get this done.
Speaker 3:We'll try not to Just knowing that she and my dad were going to the levels that they were to get it changed, not just for me but for everybody, and get it, just change it, and I really liked knowing that they were doing that.
Speaker 1:So, in a dark place, knowing that that change was coming was sort of like that light that you could rely on.
Speaker 1:And then how about for you, mom, because I know that you all have made something of this and you've survived it and you've created a cool program around it and all of these things and even reached a certain level of forgiveness within your professional capacity, like you said. But there are a lot of people out there who may hear this, who are not there. They might be in the depths of the thing. So what cracks of light can be shown to those people who are not really sure yet how this is going to turn out?
Speaker 2:Right, I just got goosebumps when you said that there's other people out there in the darkness, because I know how that feels as a mom and as a person as a whole and how it took effect of your child in that dark place. To see them in that dark place is something that no mom and no parent should ever. You felt helpless and you do, like I said, you question yourself every day of, like you know, am I a good mom? Am I doing everything I can for him, like what's you know? And I think seeing the changes and just having people listening and to be heard was huge. There was times where, you know, I sent email after email and I was getting no response and I was like no, they're going to respond because this is you know, and so I just kept kind of giving that fuel of fire to myself that, like, no, like, this needs to change.
Speaker 2:The darkness is such, you know, I think, why it kind of twisted it on a like the light at the end of the tunnel, but he's just like the flashlight was always on in mom's hands and I never saw the flashlight on, but you know what I mean Like I like.
Speaker 2:It was so amazing to hear him say that type of thing because I felt like I was in the dark too and I was guiding him, but I had no idea where we were guiding him. And so seeing that change, knowing that there's steps, there's different laws that you know you can go against and help, different strategies that schools can put in place for your child, knowing that they're on kind of the same team and building that team together around him, having that safe person, knowing that there is an outcome, and that flashlight will eventually be, you know, not needed, so to say, in the darkness, but it'll still always be there on the shelf. You know, if needed, because it's okay, you can go back to the dark places. There's times where I think about it, or you know I get the messages, or you know I think about him going to middle school, of them being in the same building now, and we had to put a safety plan in place. Like no child, no mother should have to put a safety plan in place for their child to attend school.
Speaker 2:Like that's a safe place you should feel good about them going, and so there are plans, there are places, there's teams that you can meet with, there's, you know, things that you can go through Mental health wise, there's help that you can get your child with different therapies, different things, and just knowing that you're not alone in the darkness is huge, because that's where it will consume you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, really relying on that community and those resources Absolutely. Yeah, I love the light analogy. It kind of reminds me of like a cartoon, where it's like somebody's lurking around in a basement or something and there's like a silhouette of the big, scary monster and then they shine a light on it and it's like a little mouse eating a cheese wedge or something you know.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's exactly, it's the same thing, because it's like the fear is really the fear of the unknown Right, and it's like if we don't get this resolved, if the school doesn't respond to emails, if the bully isn't held accountable, the fear of how that could grow into a monster is what really what consumes us. So shining light on it again kind of takes the power away from it. It's kind of like, well, maybe this isn't such a big bad thing if we just keep putting light on it. Light and love. So what, just for like really pragmatic, you know reasons. If somebody is being bullied or, as a parent of a child being bullied, are you aware of any resources that we can plug that they can? You know you said certain therapeutic methods and stuff that might be something they have to kind of seek out on their own. But any websites or phone, you know resources that you use, anything like that that a parent should be aware of.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Families Together has a bunch of knowledge and resources for bullying. We just redid the resources for that in a little pamphlet, for that has different steps you can take, the definitions of bullying, how you can handle that could always call us. You can, I don't know. There's tons of websites. There's just numerous things you can.
Speaker 2:You know, I think really, before you go down rabbit holes of websites and everything, it's really talking to your child and how you talk to them and how you know letting them know that their feelings are valid. You know, listening is key because what they're talking about and what they're about to tell you is really hard to hear as a mother. But how you react to it and how you're going to you know, take it and do what you want with it is huge to the child. You know if you're like, oh, you're fine, like it'll, it's fine, just hit them back or just you know and like that's not, that's not the ways to do it. And so having the resources and knowing the steps to take and building that team with the school and putting plans together really helps. But it also helps if you have an advocate in your corner and you, you know, want to to speak to someone about it, make sure you know you know you are going down the right steps and path.
Speaker 2:You could always call families together and there's there's a lot of websites as well. I don't even know like Pacers has a big one. There's, there's lots, there's a lot out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's good to know, you know, that's good to know that there are those resources out there. All right, so you know we've we've covered a lot and you know, I love hearing your story and I love hearing how you've triumphed over. You know the the situation. But it's also worth noting that this isn't just the end of the battle per se, and that there are other times where you might go to school and see the same person, or you might have a hard time forming a trusting relationship with someone because of something like this. That has happened. So I guess to mom I'll pose this question what are some of the longer-term effects of bullying and what should you be looking for and how can you continue to overcome those on a continual basis?
Speaker 2:Sure, I think the long-term effects for trauma is going to be there because they go through a lot, especially as a young child. You know there's oftentimes as an adult I think about what has gone down and happened to him and I couldn't fathom having a little mind going through that and all their changes and everything they have to do as a teenager, as is that it really takes an effect on them and their mental health and the trauma is there and I think going into a new school year or different ways to change that and make it aware to the teachers and the counselors and the whole team principles whomever is a part of that team to make them aware that, like you know, like, for example, we went to before Wyatt starts middle school this year, we went and had a walk around with just some counselors and some teachers and they let him know, like buddy, like we're going to do everything we can to make it a safe, successful, fun place for you here. Like we know that you know he's going to be in eighth grade and you're going to be in seventh grade, but like we're going to have a plan in place. We're all looking out for you, and not just for you but for the other child as well.
Speaker 2:But there was one that one of the counselors said well, I really want them to be best friends and Mitch had to be like you know what? That's never going to happen. That's fine with respectful and acknowledging each other, but they're never going to be best friends. Like we. Don't want that, like we. And there's no way that Wyatt could have a best friend like that. You know what I mean. To as much as he's forgiven, you know, it's always going to be in the back of his mind.
Speaker 2:Those words it's always going to be. When he sees him he's always going to think of those things. And you know, and I see the parents, I'm always going to think of the nasty messages they sent and things like that. And so the links that you can take is, you know, having that trauma-informed staff and as parents and teachers, but I think it's very important as parents too, because that comes home at the end of the day. You know, usually home is a safe place and those children a lot of emotions out at home.
Speaker 2:And so you know, again, looking for the signs of you know the depression or different changes, or you know, I know teenagers come with mood swings, as is, but something you know, just a little more, that you'll know, and you'll know more now what to look for and what to do if the trauma is still long-lasting long-term, because it is and it always will be and eventually they'll get in a place to where, like you know what, like that really hurt me, but I'm okay you know, yeah, so Awesome, that's great.
Speaker 1:Well, let's finish it on a fun note. I'll just pass this mic over to Armand White here, wyatt, who is. If you could play cello for any band or musician, who would it be?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, I don't really want like I don't pay attention to that. I really don't know. I don't pay attention to that stuff, it doesn't have to be like an orchestra band.
Speaker 2:I don't even know. It could be the Beatles, it could be Pearl Jam, it could be Morgan Wallin.
Speaker 3:I have no idea.
Speaker 1:to be honest, you just want to be a solo star.
Speaker 3:I yeah, I don't know, I have no idea, that's all right, that's all right.
Speaker 1:Well, if you could describe your best day in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 3:I guess hockey. I guess that's the only word.
Speaker 1:I guess it's hockey. Cool, that's awesome. Well, he's Wyatt. John Stars the cello playing electrical running rifle shooting hockey, hockey sticking all star, it used to be. It used to be. It used to be. Well, thank you both so much. Well, lacey said you're generally private people and I just think it takes so much courage to just vocalize stuff like this and so many people will benefit from it. So truly, thank you for being here today to share, and we'll make sure to put up resources and stuff about where to find some of those things that we mentioned. So, yeah, thanks for listening everybody. If you have questions about bullying or want to connect with Lacey or with Families Together, you can always hop on our website at familiestogetherinccom and we'll see you next time. Bye.