S2E16: YMI Talking to Frank D'Amore from Fitzpatrick Lentz & Bubba Law

Order in the court—the latest episode is live! 

This week, we’re joined by Frank D’Amore from Fitzpatrick Lentz & Bubba Law to discuss what really sets FLB apart. From his work in real estate law to playing a role in bringing Raising Cane's to Trexlertown and working on the Top Golf ordinance, Frank shares how FLB’s expertise and collaborative culture stand out in the legal landscape.

Frank also breaks down what an upset sale is and offers insider tips on how to get a home for a fraction of its price! 

If you’re interested in the intersection of law, real estate, and community growth, this episode is one you can’t miss! Tune in now—your legal brief awaits!

For more info on YMI insurance visit our website at ymiagency.com

Or give us a call at 610-868-8762 to see how we can better protect your business and family.

Transcript

1:00:03

You know, my firm is, you know, we handle a significant amount of land use and development around the valley. You know, for instance, lower McCungee, there's there's a top golf that's being proposed in Yeah, well, I know. Yeah, excited. Uh huh. I had a hand in writing the zoning ordinance that sort of allowed that to happen. So, yeah, I take a lot of pride in that. That's something that we'll be able to point to, you know, point to in five years, you know, to my daughter, once she understand, say, hey, I helped out with this. And there's only two others in the state, by the way, one's near Philadelphia, one's in Pittsburgh. So, you know, we're putting the Lehigh Valley on the map. We're here with another episode of Why Am I Talking. I am Jimi Honochick and I am joined as always by Avery Pennell. Uh huh. We had a discussion about this this morning. Yes. I pronounced my name. And I did it right. You did. And I'm so proud. Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to talk about something that is a sensitive topic for me. And for you, I think. I'm ready. The temperature in this room. Awful. Awfully good is what you meant to say. No. I feel like we should put up a poll at some point and ask the audience what temperature a room should be. Ooh. I actually like that idea. You and I have very strong, different opinions on this. Well, the crazy thing is you just turn it up like two degrees. Yeah. I think I'd be okay. Yeah. But you just keep it at that notch that I'm just like, oh my gosh. I literally before this was sitting by my heater. I had to take like a five minute break because I was so cold sitting by my heater. In my defense, when we do podcasts, I get worked up. I get excited and I get hot. So I need extra cold on those days. And that is fair. Like this is like not the biggest room. Yeah. And we usually have an extra body. Right. But this podcast, we didn't have an extra body. No, he was virtual. He was virtual. Yeah. Frank D'Amore. That was our podcast guest. Our first attorney, our first Esquire. That was a lot of fun. Why? You know, you talked about Esquire. Yeah. I have no idea what that is. I was sitting there nodding my. They just, they put it at the end of their names and it sounds cool. So Frank D'Amore Esquire. It reminds me of like, oh, the ancient times. I don't know. Yeah. Right. You know, where they had swords and lights and stuff. It would have been cooler if Frank showed up with a sword. He totally would have. None of our guests ever have. Fancy stuff. Like wear a cape. Yeah. Be interesting. Be different. Yeah. Yeah. That would be cool. I mean, it is a podcast. So like no one would see their cake. No one would see it. But we would know. We would know. We would know how cool they were. So wait, what is the perfect room temperature? If you're setting your thermostat. For me? Yeah. I would say like 73 to 75 for my God. That's insane. That's insane. That is the perfect room temp. It's not too hot where I'm sweating. I'm sweating at that temperature. You're a different breed. It's not too cold and I'm shaking and shivering back and forth. I was trying to do laps around the building. It was so warm. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, let me do some pushups. So I mean, I guess that's the pole. I think 69 is about the right temperature. And you say 73 to 75. So someone please weigh in on this and let us know who's closer and it's me. And if you don't say me, then I don't know, but I'm gonna be very upset. I'll cry. I'll take mine. Like I won't. Come on. I'll cry. You don't want to see that. All right. Well, let's get into Frank. This was really interesting. Like I said, first, first attorney that we've had on and he talks about upset sales. I didn't even know these were a thing. And I learned a lot. And now I want to go out and buy some real estate and become a real estate tycoon. You and me both. There we go. I, me, I know so much about real estate. Well, that's what Frank is for. He can guide us through the process. Let's watch it. All right. Here we go with Frank. All right. We are here with another episode and this one's going to be fantastic. We get a lot of fun people on here, you know, business owners, restaurant owners, but we haven't ever had an attorney here. And I'm excited for this. I'm excited to be educated. I'm excited for everything that Frank D'Amore, from Fitzpatrick-Lenson, Buba has to say. So Frank, thank you for being the first grown up to come on the podcast. Oh, that's not fair. Happy to be here. No, this is going to be fun. Tell us a little bit about yourself, about what you practice. Lawyer, attorney, are those interchangeable words? I think attorney is what I say when I want to sound professional, you know, but I'm doing the same thing. Yeah. Do you get Esquire after your name? So that's supposed to be conferred on to people. Like, like, like, so if, if I reference another lawyer, I'm supposed to put Esquire on their names. I don't tend to sign my name Esquire, unless it's on a court document. Again, it's just formality. There's nothing legal. Like they never sent me a, like a license to put Esquire at the end of my name. Yeah. Well, we're going to call you Esquire from now on, because that sounds very, Understood. All right. Well, I'm, I'm talking nonsense. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about where you come from, what you're doing. Like I said, what you're practicing. Yeah. So I, I work at Fitzpatrick-Lenson-Buba, as you said. I am in our real estate department. So what I focus on primarily is land use and development. For instance, there's a raising canes that went up in treks or towns. Yes. We've talked about that on this podcast. I was a big fan. Tell me more. Well, I had a small part in that, the little sign that's sitting right there on Hamilton Ave. Yeah. You know, I, I, I was a part of making sure that sign happened. And I think our firm handled the land development of that too. So those sorts of things are what I do day in and day out. So what I'm hearing is I wouldn't have gotten that fried chicken if it weren't for you. So thank you very much is what I want to say. So basically that was, you know, zoned one way. And might not have been exactly the right way for raising canes to come in and do what they needed. And so they hire you guys to step in and, you know, make petitions and files and convert it to what they needed. Am I, am I saying this correctly? So yeah, you're almost there. So I think it was zoned appropriately. The issue, so there's two processes, right? Land development, which is its own set of rules, which is basically, okay, you can build a restaurant here, but how does that restaurant get built? And that's how you make sure there's, you know, stormwater management, things like that. So it was zoned appropriately. The, where I got involved with that sign is that there was a provision and legal. There was a provision in lower McCungy's ordinance that said that you can't have a sign in the ultimate right of way. We're getting awfully technical here, but the ultimate right of way of the township. So we needed a small variance from that. So it was a, it was a dimensional variance that allowed that. So yeah, if that doesn't bore you out of your mind. I was going to say, so being a lawyer, you know, there's a lot of technicalities, a lot of fine print. Is that something you've always been drawn to, or is it something where, you know, you got into it and you've learned to love it? No, man. I had no idea I was going to be a lawyer. Really? Yeah. So I was a terrible high school student. I went to summer school. I failed geometry a few times. I just, I went to community college because I never took my SATs. Yeah. Yeah. And then at some point I just said, oh, wait, I'm getting old. I need to start taking things seriously. You know, I guess I always had a sort of propensity for writing in English. You know, I went and got a political science degree and then I got that and I was like, well, what am I going to do with this now? I guess I'll take the LSATs. I took those, did okay, went to Penn State law, you know, nine, eight, nine years later, here I am. So, but they, but I will say it was a happy sort of circumstance because I do love what I do, even in getting down to the minutia. Like you said, I don't know where it comes from, but I do enjoy it. Was there a moment? So you said that, you know, you're getting old and you need to grow up and think to the future, but was there a moment where you kind of, you know, the light bulb went off and you said, this is, this is the path I should take? Or was it just kind of, you know, happenstance got you here? Yeah, I was figuring out as I went. So I, I very much, you know, I looked around at my contemporaries. I'm a, you know, pride myself on being perceptive. So, you know, I was looking around and okay, well, this person looks like they're, they're on this trajectory. I don't want to be on that trajectory, you know, et cetera. And so I just, really all it was, was I decided I was going to be a professional student. You know, if this is what I'm doing right now, I'm going to be the best that I can be at it. And that's what I did. I did real well in community college, which got me into a college, even though I never took my SATs. And then once I did that, it was okay. What do I do now? And then just the next step was, well, I did fail all those math classes, maybe being a doctor or an engineer. I was good at English. Let's take a shot at the LSATs, which is the test you take to get into law school. I did okay. And it all just sort of fell into place. That's very cool. How about, I mean, you have to take the bar after that, I would imagine. Oh, yeah. Test as I've been led to believe that it is. So, you know, I don't know. There's, there's two ways to answer that question. One is that it's a very learnable test. So, there's only so many different ways you can ask a question, right? And they've been doing the bar exam for decades, maybe over a hundred years at this point, but definitely decades. And so a lot of these classes that teach you, or a lot of these bar prep classes that everybody takes and pays for the privilege of taking, they just regurgitate questions that have been on the bar exam in the past. And, you know, you do, you do 500 to 1000 practice questions. You notice similar, similar, similar questions on the bar exam. You have a good shot. So, it's very learnable. Some people, the way they, they studied for it was to just take 5000 practice questions. I found it to be, I didn't do that. I did a nine to five every day. So, studying for the bar? No, no, no, no. I treated my bar study as a nine to five job. And on the weekends too. So, you know, nine to five, seven days a week. It wasn't like, it wasn't the worst experience in my life. Was it the best experience in your life? It certainly was. But the test itself, you know, it's, there's a lot of pressure, you know, you just spent three years untold amounts of money and three years to take a 200 question multiple choice test and then, you know, a practical essay test over the course of two days. You know, I was staying in some Motel six in, in work, Pennsylvania. The circumstances were high, or, you know, but the test itself, you know, I passed. So, I mean, it was, don't get me wrong. I left there thinking that I could not have passed. But it, you know, I think it gets people treated as this insurmountable obstacle. It's just not. So, I mean, it sounds like when you put your mind to something, you're able to get it. And, you know, maybe at the start of your career or in school, that wasn't what you were about. And then you said, you know, I need to do something. And you set your mind to it and you conquered, you know, everything to get to be an Esquire, as we said. Yeah, I was getting excited. I'm sorry. No, no. So, I mean, tell me a little bit about practicing law. I know you have something that we wanted to talk about and it's upset sales. And I'd like for you to kind of give everyone a little glimpse into what upset sales are. I didn't even know these existed, but now I do. And so shine a little light on these for us. Yeah. Well, congratulations for not knowing the existing because you're paying your taxes. Right. Essentially, an upset sale is the first sale that happens when real estate taxes, either to the school district, to the county or to the municipality, usually the school district is the highest burden there, go unpaid for a period of two years. After that, pursuant to the law, the accounting tax going bureau can sell your property. The first time they are allowed to do that is called an upset sale. Lehigh counties took place for 2024 two days ago. On which date? On September 11th. Okay. All right. So, do they do that every year in September timeframe? Yeah, actually they do. It's written into the real estate tax sale law, which is the statute that governs all of this, that it has to be before, I think it's the third Monday in September. So typically they fall in September. Okay. Throughout all the counties. Yeah. So essentially, I'm not paying my taxes on my home and then it becomes the government's property. Who are the serial offenders here? Because the bill comes in, I try to make sure I pay it. Where do you see this happening? So, I think the common conception is that, you know, it's people that are down on their luck and listen, that's certainly it. That certainly happens. There could be an estate where someone died and someone just hasn't taken care of it right. They didn't even know about this property. Usually what I find is that a large number of these properties are the result of a poorly managed portfolio. So, somebody, you know, that has a slow row homes or, you know, a number of single family homes, maybe in various counties, just let something slip through the cracks. Long enough that the County Tax Flame Bureau is now offering it for a public auction for sale. To satisfy, you know, probably, let's say $20,000 of unpaid taxes when your property could do both, much more. Yeah, absolutely. And so, it goes to sale. Is it, you know, real estate investors going there? Is it an auction? What does that look like? Yeah, so, I do find that there's a lot of real estate investors. Because, as I just said, you could buy one of these properties for a fraction of its fair market value. You have to do a lot of homework. You have to make sure that there's not other liens because the sale doesn't get rid of things like mortgage mortgages or things like that. So, you got to do a lot of homework. But the smart, sophisticated real estate investors, there's opportunity there. And yeah, so, it's an auction. So, the auction is set by, the starting bid is basically the upset price. So, it's essentially unpaid taxes, unpaid municipal liens, anything you owe to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. That all is the starting bid. After that, it's just how high it goes. Yeah. All right. So, like I said, you're the grown up. I'm the juvenile who, my head immediately goes to Happy Gilmore. And Grandma's home is, I don't know if it's foreclosed, but it feels similar to this, where it goes to an auction and Happy shows up to try to win it. But ultimately, Shooter, who's my favorite character in anything ever, gets the house. Is that similar? Am I thinking about this correctly? We got to talk about Shooter Gavin being your favorite character. But beyond that, they are a little different. One is that one is just a contractual relationship between a bank and a mortgagee, right? That's the Happy Gilmore scenario. Right. So, Grandma didn't pay her mortgage and the bank as a lender, exercise its right to foreclose on that mortgage. There are a ton of protections for mortgage foreclosures. But at the end of the day, it's not the same thing as you said before, the government essentially removing property from you. So, there's not the level of protections as there could be in an upset sale. They're very similar, but they are distinct. Yeah. And something I wanted to circle back on was, you said it's really savvy real estate investors. If someone wanted to do more, maybe go to one of these auctions, is there a way to find out when the upset sales are coming, what properties will be available? Like, how did they do the research to be right? Yeah. So, typically, like Lehigh County, let's use that as an example. Yeah. It's the county tax claim bureau contracts with a company called Elite Revenue Solutions. And they handle basically all the delinquent taxes for the county that could submit it to them. So, they publish, they're very sophisticated where our county is sort of on top of things. So, they publish every year a list of properties that will be subjected to, you know, in this year, the September 11th tax sale. They do that every year, then they post a list of properties that were sold at the tax sale. They also have to publish notice in the newspaper, in the law journal. So, it's out there. You just got to pay it. You got to know what you're looking for. No, that's great. That's great. Alright. So, let's go back to Frank. You know, Frank, you had your career path. Are you from the Valley originally or did you, how did you get here? Yeah. I am not from the Valley. I am from the suburbs of Newark. My whole family were Italians from Newark. I was born and raised in North Plainfield, New Jersey. I went to, you know, Rowan Valley Community College, Monmouth University. I just so happened to wind up in Pennsylvania because I wanted to go to Penn State because they had a, for law school, because they had a big football team. And, you know, I eventually met my wife and that is what has rooted me in the Valley. She's, she was born and raised here. My parents live sort of right over the river. So, it works out. Yeah, that's great. And so, your wife is from the area and you guys have kids now. You've started a family here, right? Yeah, we have. My daughter is six, East Penn School District. We love that. And my son is three. I saw Avery cheering that on. She must have been through that same system. Oh, yeah. Go Hornets. And your son is three, you said? Yeah, he is. Oh, that's great. I have to ask a question. So, my wife and I are going through the Sopranos and you mentioned sort of where you grew up. That's the area of the Sopranos, right? Yeah, you know, I'd say we're on the fringes of it, but it's all not too far away. Frank, you got any good connections you can hook me up with? You know, I used to have an uncle that was involved in waste with waste management. Yeah, Tony was a lot in waste management as well. Yeah, I think he was also a consultant. But, you know, I never asked too many questions. That was probably for the best for you. Yeah. So, Lehigh Valley, I mean, you guys are here now. Are you happy here? Is this where you see your guys, you know, your future for the family? Oh, absolutely. So, you know, when I started practicing law, I worked in Reading. So, Berks County. We had a house in Kutztown. It was good, right? I wouldn't change anything about it. But the whole time, I saw the Lehigh Valley. I saw that, you know, it was sort of growing at this exponential rate. And it was just, you know, how do I get into the valley? I've actually only been working at Fitzpatrick-Lence and Buba for a little over two years now. Yeah. So, it took a little bit to get here. So, I'm very happy to be here. I think it's going to morph and change and be one of the top places to be in Pennsylvania in 10 years. And, I mean, do you get to see a lot on the real estate side from where you sit? Do you see sort of what's happening in the valley? Yeah. Not only do I see it, you know, like it or not, I'm part of it. You know, my firm is, you know, we handle a significant amount of land use and development around the valley. You know, for instance, lower McCungee, there's a top golf that's being proposed in the valley. Oh, I know. I'm excited. Well, I had a hand in writing the zoning ordinance that sort of allowed that to happen. So, yeah, I take a lot of pride in that. That's something that I'll be able to point to, you know, point to in five years, you know, to my daughter once she understands and say, "Hey, you know, I helped out with this." And there's only two others in the state, by the way. One's near Philadelphia, one's in Pittsburgh. So, you know, we're putting lower McCungee and Lehigh Valley on the map with that. So, Raising Canes and Topgolf, I have you to thank for. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, I appreciate this. You are making my life better. I came up very, very qualified people. And then... Well, tell me a little bit about, you know, being a lawyer. I feel like I understand a lot of professions. But law, I feel like, has this mystique that I don't fully understand. I mean, you generally go to a practice, right? Like a law practice like Europe, Fitzpatrick, Lenson, Buba. What's the environment like there? What is it like you all have different specialties? I'm really curious to learn more about that. Yeah. We... So, we're a large firm for the Lehigh Valley. I think we have right around 50 attorneys. That's big for around here. And so, there are practice groups. I belong to our real estate practice group. We have a very substantial corporate business and banking group. There's a mergers and acquisitions group. We also have litigation, domestics, family law, and then... Will's Trust in the States. Not to take that for a last. So, yeah, we all have different practice groups. We all have specialties. And, yeah, we all work as a team. We all... It's real easy to refer stuff to each other. But we're all experts in our own way. And what makes one practice group different than another? I know there's competitive law firms in the area. So, what do you feel like separates Fitzpatrick, Lenson, Buba from the other ones? You know, one, internally, would be our culture. We're all actually, you know, friends. We get along. So, people looking at us would probably say, "We're a business firm." You know, we work with businesses. So, our culture is business versus something where if you're an insurance defense firm, right? You'd be... Your culture would be litigation, right? So, we all, you know, we have casual Fridays and things. It's a really good place to work, you know. So, I think that's one thing that sets us apart. Also, we're just chock full of competent lawyers. You know, there's not... I can ask anybody a question in my firm and I don't really doubt what they're going to say. I don't know if that's true everywhere. But don't get me wrong. The valley is full of good lawyers. No, that's great. And I mean, the path is you come in sort of as an associate, I guess, and then work your way up to partners. That's generally how it works at the law firms? Yeah. So, I'm an associate. Which, you know, I think there's two levels here. I am an associate. I've been doing it for eight or nine years or eight years. Some change. But, you know, yeah. So, I am an associate. The plan is that if I keep doing such a swell job, that they will recognize that. And, you know, that I will eventually be elected a sheriff. Well, if you need someone to come in and put in a good word, I am here, Frank. Thank you for that. Yes, absolutely. Cool. I want to talk about something that I know you're a big fan of. My family, we are going to Disney World in January. And I know you and your family are big Disney fans. How did you get into it and walk me through, you know, what you guys do? Like, what makes you guys big Disney people? So, the first time, you know, I hadn't been to Disney for, I don't know, 20 years up until December of 2022. My parents had actually purchased for us back in 2019, a trip to Disney for Christmas. You know, me, my siblings, and our kids, you know, their grandkids. They're really excited to bring us to Disney around Christmas in December of 2020. So, that didn't happen. Yeah. So, eventually, in 2022, it eventually does happen. And I just, I couldn't believe it. Like, first of all, as someone who isn't a huge fan of lines and things like that, I couldn't believe that I was able to sort of just stomach it. But, yeah, it was, it's a full escape. If you really sort of just lean into it, it's a full escape from just reality. And, you know, seeing my kids, I love my kids. And seeing them just in that world, it's just, we just really liked it. It is, it's magical. Like, yes, you know, going as a kid was so much fun. But as a parent, it's a different experience. Like, of course, I'm going to take us to Star Wars world and I'm going to do all the rides I want to do. But, like, seeing them light up at, you know, whether it's my daughter seeing one of the princesses or my son really trying to pull the sword out of that stone. It is a whole different experience. And it's so much cooler, I feel like, just being able to watch them do the stuff and really light up. If it was just me and my wife, we'd just hang out at Epcot and walk around the world a few times. But with my kids, you know, I'll ride Thunder Mountain Railroad as many times as conceivably possible because we don't know what it is. Do you have a favorite Disney movie? Yeah, Robin Hood. Oh, that was a good one. You had no hesitation there. Yeah, I thought about that. I mean, I'm going to say that. It's a great movie. It is good. I mean, I think Robin Hood himself is so cool to watch. And as a kid growing up, like, you just want to be Robin Hood and live that lifestyle. I do this thing where I ask people questions, and then I realize I don't have an answer to it. So I'm glad you didn't ask me what mine was. But Robin Hood's a solid answer. Yeah. Well, I we do this thing every every episode, and I want to do it. I want to give you the chance. We're sponsored by Hocus Pocus, which is a cleaning service in the area. Rose and her team do incredible work. But they also, you know, it's it's truly like magical what they do. They come in and they clean your house and it's it's sparkling when they've done with it. And so I ask all my guests, if you could have any magical ability, what would it be? So I think I don't want to interrupt, but that was a great pause. Like I'm I'm on the edge of my seat right now ready for what this is going to be. I think and again, this is something that for whatever reason I've thought about many times before, probably because I'm into Marvel and things like that. But I would probably like to be able to slow the perception of time, my perception of time. So, you know, not really have any tangible effect on it, right? Because you probably mess up a bunch of things that way. But if I can make a work day go, but, you know, an eight hour work day that I get everything I need to get done done in. But it seems like to me, I got it done in 10 seconds. Yeah. It'd be great. Similarly, you know, weekends could last just as long as I wanted them to. Right. Yeah. And will this help me get work done? Like because I find there's not enough hours in the day. Can I slow it down and then get all my work done in the eight hours finally? No, no. Just your perception of it. Fine. You're such a big Marvel guy. Who's your favorite Marvel Avenger character? Probably even before it was cool. I always like Gambit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, can I ask how old you are? I feel like we're the same person sometimes, Frank. Yeah. Thirty-four. Okay. You're younger than me. But Gambit is so cool. Isn't he like, I haven't seen, I haven't seen the new Deadpool. I haven't seen the latest iteration of gambit, but he was just so cool growing up again. Like the kind of guy just wanted to be gambit. So suave and cool. Good answer. All right. All right. Anything that we didn't hit that we should talk about anything we missed, you want the upset sales, anything that you want to hit before we get out of here? No, no, I think I think we've had a pretty good conversation. Happy Gilmore, Disney, you know. Yeah. We covered all my favorites. So I'm good. But did we cover all your favorites? Yeah. Yeah. I think we had. Awesome. Well, Frank, I truly appreciate you coming on here. This is obviously a busy time. I mean, the upset sales. What's your role in the upset sale? I don't think I even asked what your role is in upset sales. So basically, um, people can come to me to just ask about a property to begin with. Right. Um, you know, do you know anything about this property? Can you look into anything? You know, we have access to certain things that other people don't. Um, you know, we look at the title a little bit. Uh, beyond that, if your house gets sold, um, or if you know, you have purchased a property and someone is challenging the sale, I can, I can help. I know the court procedures, you know, I can help. I can, I can fight that for you. So truly, if I'm looking to do this sort of investing where I can get, you know, a home at the fraction of its value. Yeah. I should come to you and you can be the guy to walk me through, you know, what I should be thinking about what concerns there are for that property and help guide me through the sale. Absolutely. And the chances are once you buy it, that's when, uh, delinquent taxpayers are going to realize that there are some people that are going to be able to sell their property. So, uh, there will typically be a challenge to, you should expect and budget for a challenge of the sale. So, um, I can absolutely help with fending that off. That's perfect. I'm glad I asked that question because that is exactly why you're here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.