S4E3: YMI Talking to Chris Barrett from Pocono Mountains Visitors Bureau

New Episode Alert!

Season 4 Episode 3:

In this episode of YMI Talking, we sit down with Chris Barrett from the Pocono Mountains Visitors Bureau to talk all things Poconos 

“I think it’s the beauty, the serenity, and the nature of it… two major rivers… you can hike, you can bike…”  

From the natural beauty and outdoor experiences to the growth happening across the region, Chris shares what makes the Poconos such a unique place to live, work, and visit

Tune in for a great conversation about community, tourism, and what’s ahead for the Poconos!

For more info on YMI insurance visit our website at ymiagency.com

Or give us a call at 610-868-8762 to see how we can better protect your business and family.

Transcript

0:00

it's the beauty, the serenity and it's the nature of it. You know, you have two major rivers a great state and federal parks. You know you can experience the outdoors. You could hike, you can bike. Of course, there's all the attractions which are amazing. The ski resorts, indoor water parks. But the I think the natural beauty of the region, people decide they have to connect with nature because it calms them and makes them feel better. Welcome to YMI Talking! A podcast where the guests are so good you'll wonder why the host is even talking. In each episode, you will hear one of the leaders of the Lehigh Valley’s vibrant business hub. They will tell you the keys to their success, the mistakes they've made, and what they have in store for the future. Here is the host of YMI Talking, from YMI Insurance, Jimi Honochick. Yes. All right. We are back with another episode. And this one is truly kind of the heart of what we're trying to do. Season four. Pocono mountains are such an incredible place with so many amazing businesses, and there's one group at the center of all of that, and one man at the center of all of that. Oh boy, is right. Chris Barrett of the Pocono Mountain Visitors Bureau. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you both for having me. It's really great to be here. Can't wait to dig in. But I have to give you 20 bucks each after that. 30 inflation. No, I mean, truly, what you do and what your organization does is, is responsible for so much of the growth, so much of the economic development. And we wouldn't be who we are, as you know, a business or as a community without you. So I when I say it, I truly mean it. You guys are at the heart of all of this. You're so kind. But I see our team as being a caretaker of something that started decades, like, almost even like centuries ago. In this region, being known as a place where people to come and rediscover themselves and enjoy their life. So this has been going on. It even surprised me when I really looked into the history of it. How long people have been coming to the Poconos? It's literally centuries. Yeah. Which is crazy. What brings them here? What has people coming here. I think it's the beauty, the serenity and it's the nature of it. You know, you have two major rivers a great state and federal parks. You know you can experience the outdoors. You could hike, you can bike. Of course, there's all the attractions which are amazing. The ski resorts, indoor water parks. But the I think the natural beauty of the region, people decide they have to connect with nature because it calms them and makes them feel better. You know, so many times you all have meetings in New York and because we know the city is not very far from where we're sitting right now. So you'll go to the city, you'll do your thing. You're in the hustle and bustle, which is great. But then as you traverse, you know, 80 and you're coming back and it starts to get greener and greener and greener and greener, then all of a sudden you're over the Delaware, the Delaware, you know, over the bridge, and you're into Pennsylvania. The Poconos is just it's just like a totally different feeling. Of serenity and peaceful as I feel. So I think that's the key to it. It reminds me so I, I lived in New York for a while and I took the bus, the bus back home and my parents weren't available to pick me up, so I had to walk home from the bus stop. But it was such a 180 from the normal hustle and bustle. It was one of like the memories I still have is in the city. We lived it. Yeah, in New York, in Manhattan for a while. Okay. So. Wow. That's a yeah. Yeah. He didn't have Uber. This was before there was a world before. Right. Like in DoorDash. Oh. Thank you. But taking that time to walk through the Poconos, you know, in the quiet of my mind was something that I hadn't done. And you're right. There is a beauty here that draws people in. So what is the Pocono Mountains Visitors Bureau do for the Pocono Mountains? So essentially we’re the marketing agency for the region. So we operate the website, we operate our television network, and we also place media, digital, you know, digital, social, traditional to try to get folks to visit the region. So we are the marketing arm of what the region is. We're the keepers of the brand. So if you ever see a commercial, that's Pocono Mountains, for instance, or anything relative to Pokemon Mountain, Pokemon mountains.com, that's what we do. So, it's just pushing out the, the notion and the possibility this is a great people for a place to do is a great place for people to visit and to vacation. And so Pocono TV that that's you guys and that's. You're correct. Yeah. It's a book. And a television network is owned and operated by us. And we also, operate the Sherman Theater and a management contract. And for a while, I couldn't understand the Pocono television. I was trying to wrap my head around it. And then my dad was in Philadelphia, and they were staying over, and he said he turned on the TV at their hotel, and there was Pocono television. And it all clicked with, just like that, you know, you guys are doing this brand outreach and you're bringing in people from Philadelphia, from New York. So we were fortunate that we were producing a lot of content, regularly. And I think the key to any good streamers and let's say we use every available tool to push out the content. So we use linear television, we use social, we use, digital, we use every possible tool streamers. So we're not constrained like say a lot of linear television systems are, you know, CBS, NBC, the rest of they now they do have digital components, but they're money's made through the purchase of advertising on linear television. So we're not constrained by that. So we're continuously using it as a content medium. That's it. Yeah. And we can go on any platform that has availability for us. So we started to repurpose all that content that we were shooting into instead of 15 and 30s parts and one minute parts, we were going three minutes, five minutes, seven minutes and digging into the stories a lot deeper and researching and showing telling stories about the personalities of the people who provide the hospitality here. So and then we started to realize that the first app that we ever used was Roku. So Roku's analytics platform is fairly robust. So and our first iteration of it, we found out that if people downloaded the Roku app, they would watch our television network for a minimum of 2.5 hours. Wow. And I was I sat there and I thought, And that was when we had a minimum of content. We had a lot, but it wasn't anywhere near what it is now. But I thought, wow, people are interested in the stories behind the people who are providing hospitality here. Yeah. And I mean, they're generations of families that have worked in this industry and been really dedicated to the product of this industry. And people are very interested in those types of stories. And also to what were the jewels here that, people don't really know about, but they want to experience. And we, we, we shined a light on that and we said, hey, you know, when you're here, maybe this is something you want to visit. So it helped in so many different ways to drive small businesses to drive the product to it. It all really went hand in hand. So right now I think we're in five states. Wow. And in 30 million homes. Wow. Just with linear television cable systems. And we're adding frequencies over the higher frequencies all the time. So if you haven't had to our antenna and you scan, you could you can get an almost in Baltimore, in Philadelphia, in this market has been Harrisburg like Lebanon, Lancaster, York. We just down in one near Pittsburgh. We're going to have another one in Long Island at some point in Atlantic City. So we're constantly adding signals and cable systems. So to try to get as far into the northeast as we can. What an incredible resource for the businesses here in the Pocono Mountains. You know, that's something that they couldn't do on their own. But coming together through you guys, we now have reach like that. I mean, who who should be a member of Pocono Mountain Visitors Bureau because I have a strong opinion here, and I want to hear the same. We welcome anyone. Yeah, I was going to say everyone else. I mean, and we have a plethora of all different types of businesses, not only hospitality businesses, but there's so many direct and indirect. And people will say, what does that really mean? So directly? We generate 4.3 billion in revenue in our four counties, but exceed say that again, 4.3 billion. Yeah. With direct and indirect pieces are very obvious and become 7.2 billion. Wow. So it's all the purveyors. It's all the supplies and materials. It's the labor. It's all the different things that relate to maintaining our businesses. This is a direct spur ensure not just a direct span, but it's everything else that one would need to operate a business. So it it's a $7.2 billion business in the Poconos, and 40% of the labor income in these three counties Carmel, Monroe, Wayne and Pike is related to the hospitality industry. So by far, we're the largest industry in this market as percent of percentage of labor income solely. We are the largest industry in all ten regions. So I mean, there's it's substantial in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. It's definitely substantial, but it's not as much of a percentage of labor income as it is here in the Poconos. It's substantial. Oh that's incredible. Yeah. I mean, you you and I got connected recently and you pointed out that we could join. And instantly I was like, of course we should join. You know, the businesses that are here that are thriving or because of what you're doing. And so if we can help support that mission, we were all about it. Well, but I think, you know, you have to pat yourself on the back because you're you guys offer an incredible service and provide a blanket, a security to our, what we're doing. And I just know that when I'm working with you, you make a process very easy, and you give everyone a comfort level that they're doing the right thing with what they're selecting, and there's a trust level there. That is, it isn't really easy to attain. Like, right off the bat. But I could just tell that when I spoke with both of you that this is just a like a great a little bit more than an insurance agency like you do care about the businesses in the market, and you care about them thriving because you realize that I think that in a good market floats our boat, and it's going to float your motor somebody else's. So you have the vision to be able to see long term. Yeah. As a business person, which I think is incredibly important for our market, that's the only way we're going to grow. Yeah. Is we if we have business folks who are visionary and they can see, like what this market will look like 3 to 5 years from now, well, let's go on that. Where do you see it? Because I think since you've come on, which is around 2017, 2017. Yes, the market I would say has changed considerably, for the better. And that's a lot for what you've done. So I mean, I'd like to hear sort of that journey that you've seen and then where you see the Poconos in five years, that's kind. You know, I think the the credit really needs to be given to our attraction. So when you have an attraction like Kalahari, Camelback, Great Wolf, and there are many who have decided to locate here and invest billions of dollars in their products, for instance, just between Camelback, Great Wolf and Kalahari, as I just mentioned, that's about $2 billion in direct investment in one county. So it's and that's extremely rare, I think, in any industry here in the state. Now there are some wins. You know, the Eli Lilly there's a lot of different things. And we have located here thankfully. But the lion's share of the investment has been in tourism product in Pennsylvania. And we're fortunate that, Todd Nelson said, hey, let's locate in the Pocono Mountains in Pennsylvania and a 1000 room property with 225,000ft² of convention space. I mean, that's a major asset. It is Camelback having an indoor and outdoor water park in addition to a ski area. That's a major attraction in Gray Wolf's new $250 million addition to their property. So but I really credit Great Wolf with the turnaround in our market in 2007, six and seven, when they first located here, you know, the Poconos had been in decline. Yeah. And I think one thing I always respect about the Poconos is the owners and the managers and leaders of our businesses have known that we they will say to themselves, they're very honest with it, kind of in a spot analysis and say we their threats everywhere, their weaknesses everywhere. We need to reinvent ourselves in order to survive. And they've been able to do that a lot. And I think that's why our industry here thrives and survives because of the visionary leadership of a lot of folks that are involved within our organization. Since I we say we're caretakers in that, if you can get a property to build 1000 rooms, that's that's an amazing idea. That doesn't happen every day. I mean, that doesn't happen at all now. Yeah, except if it's Kalahari. Right now. Are you building other properties in other states? And they're incredibly successful. But that's one that's one family and one man. The Nelson family. Yeah, that are really doing that. And that's driving a lot of the growth in this market. Yeah. Along with our hospitals and along with a lot of the other things that come along with that, which are needed. You're right, I moved away 2005 is when I graduated high school. And so I, you know, kind of moved away from the area then, and there was no great Wolf Lodge there was no Kalahari. Camelback was where I went skiing. And that was it. Yeah. Then, you know, I moved around and I've come back recently and I went, what happened up here like Camelback is a completely different thing than it used to be. It's beautiful. It's incredible. What's so interesting? I worked for Hershey Entertainment Resorts for 20 years. Yeah. We need to get into who is Chris Barrett soon. Most people don't want to know. Neither do I, but, it I, I was worked there for 20 years and I've seen a lot of hardware. I've seen like, a lot of, you know, here's a 20 million da coaster. Here's a $15 million coaster. Here's a new spa, an outdoor like I've seen so many different things. I'll never forget when the person at the job before me, gave me a tour of the area, and he. We drove to Kalahari, and we came around the bend and boom, like, I saw the Billy Tuff, like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe how impressive it was. And then we actually went into the building and I looked around my oh my, I've never seen something like this. Yeah. So I just kind of knew that the area was underserved and underground, you know, for those types of assets. And we've from a marketing standpoint, we just really concentrated on them and kind of owning, you know, the we're kind of like one of the water park capitals of the world. We are. Right. Yeah. And the Wisconsin Dells can kind of claim that. In fact, they do. But I mean, I guess, you know, I said, look, we're in the one of the water park capitals of the world because we are and they're major water park attractions. Yeah, they're controlled environments. You don't have to worry about whether. I mean, it's they're very well run. Extremely well run, like guest service, cleanliness, safety, all those types of things are top notch, especially like, I could say so many things about them, but great Wolf Lodge, for instance. Yeah, I took my kids there. And I have great memories of my children growing up there. Now. I tell the general manager he was actually there at the time. I didn't know him at the time, okay, but they were such like seminal things for my kids that they grew up with. So I even have like a piece of that coming from the industry. I took my kids to Great Wolf. Yeah, I mean, it it's just to me, the visionary aspect of the leadership and ownership in this area, in the hospitality space and a lot of other spaces, too, is above and beyond a lot of other areas, I feel. Yeah. All right. Who is Chris Barrett? Because you come here and you truly do help grow the Poconos into where we are right now. How did you get to a place where you could do that? Oh, gosh, I was I was incredibly lucky. I had great mentors, I people who cared about me. I got involved, thankfully, very young, with a great company. So, but Penn State I think was was the first part of it. Like it came from Hazleton? Yeah. It's very poor background, but it was kind of one of those things where here are public institutions that will open the door for you, but you have to walk through it. And Penn State was the first time I was able really to walk through that door. And because I was a first generation college and my family, and no, no, Mike, both of my children are I've graduate one, my daughter's about ready to graduate. She's going to vet school, right? Yeah, I I'm proud of her. She's a great kid. So is my son. He he graduated from Penn State. But I'm very proud of him too. But it's just that it was up to me like to take those next steps. But along the way, I've had really good mentors that they cared. I listened to what they had to say. And, and when I started work for Hershey was in 86, about every two years I was promoted. Does not surprise me. Hey, guys. I the barrel scraping by. And I was very, very fortunate that every time I would get into something, I'd be I'm kind of getting bored with that. It was just it was weird. And then boom, they would put me into something else. And like, wow, I really like this. But they never took any responsibility away from me. Just go, oh, I'm sorry to just keep kept growing and growing and growing and growing. So I ended up being in in a senior manager in the park arena and stadium. So my last job there was managing director in the Park arena and stadium and then I went to, we bought another park in Lancaster, Dutch Wonderland. Oh, I love Dutch Wonderland. So I was one of the they three of us went down and rehabbed and reopened the whole, property. And I never worked so hard in my life. Yeah, I mean, it was not well taken care of. It was not safe. We put about 6 million into it, like in four months. But, and then we continued to like rebuild it over time. They just ended up selling it. Now another company Hershel has it. Oh containment. Then I was, I went to a, a company similar to where I'm at now, which was in Lancaster County. I also had my own advertising agency with a partner. I was 4 or 5 years of us. It was one of our clients. Four we had a number of international clients. Wow. That was a great experience too. But what are you doing that while you're doing Lancaster two? No. Okay. What happened was it was weird. Like one door would open or start to close. Another one would open. Yeah. And and at the visitors bureau in Lancaster, I couldn't really I was kind of where I was going to be, like the budget was going to be at certain. And then like another door open. Yeah, at the agency. So I went into that and I always wanted to run my own business. I wanted to see what it was like to make a payroll, and now I could say I did it. And, you know, so it was something I always wanted to do, and it was great, but I always missed hospitality. I really did. And I interviewed for this job, ten years before the person retired. It was him and I, and he got the job while. So then they called me back and said, do an interview for this and retire. Going to my yes. Yeah, that's what I did. And then they hired me. So and that was in 2017. So, I've been here ever since and yeah, this has been a great opportunity. We have an amazing board. They're very visionary. They they can go into a meeting and put on their, Pocono Mountains hat like they don't put on their Kalahari hat or. Yeah, you know, their French manor hat or their, you know, any, any property that they represent there. They put on the Pocono Mountains hat and say what's best for the region, what's best for our businesses. And I actually do like the way I really, what I'm really proud of is they say what's best for our communities. Yeah, yeah. Your organization, not only your organization, is a destination management organization. So now you have to be involved with nonprofits. You have to do things that give back to the quality of life in our communities. And they really I mean, there are some organizations that pay lip service to that, but they don't. I mean, they they're like they put their money where their mouth is, like, we have grant programs, like we do a lot from a marketing standpoint. Anything that we can do to help support nonprofits, we absolutely try to do it because it's important for the quality of life in all the communities that we serve. And that's really honestly why we took on the Sherman. So, yeah, speaking of visionary, I wanted to hit that like that is, you know, a beautiful asset in the Poconos. And it would be easy to just kind of let that be and do its thing. But you guys came in and said, we have a vision for this. It was interesting. We were approached by somebody who was on that board. And, you know, we were talking beforehand about the stock market. Yeah. How you turned it off. So I kind of turned off that part of my brain when I left Hershey. You know, it's like, okay, I don't have to run a building now because we actually have an arena and a stadium. Yeah. And I was there when we built the giant center. I was like, one of the last things I was involved with before I went to Dutch Wonderland. And so I was involved in all three of them. And after I left, I shut it off right now, is it? So when a person who was on that board, he texted me and he said, I think the Knvb should operate. The Sherman talked me out of it and I looked at I was like, I don't know if I want to do that again. And then I thought, wait a minute. I started to really think it through and I thought, this could be really great for the community if we can make it work financially, because it does have to stand on its own, but we can return the building back to the community. And because it is a nonprofit and have it be a valuable asset for the community, and when we get it stabilized and turned around, then the second thing is what's our vision? And the vision is to turn Stroudsburg into an arts Mecca or an arts hub with the Sherman as an anchor, and use our television network to discover talent as the old Grand Ole Opry did at one time. And I think they're going to start to do that again. Yeah, Live Nation bought it. So I think they're actually going to start to do that again. So we want to do the exact same thing. We want to bring in talent who writes their own music, their own intellectual property. We'll broadcast it. We'll get a release just based upon that broadcast, and then hopefully somebody will discover them. Wow, they're so cool. Have the ability to be able to be discovered. So that's good because I need an outlet for my music and I need. Yeah. Oh no, you don't want to hear sing. But so far out of it, I mean, I'm sorry, but that's incredible. I mean, to be able to showcase the talent that we have here in that way and the platform that you have, this gives you just another avenue. It totally made sense, really. When I started to think about it, I thought, wait a minute, we already have a network. Yeah, we have part of the hard part of it done. We did live. So it's like we knew how to do that. We knew the technology. The hardest part is understanding something like that up is getting it running the first time. Yeah, getting a cable system to agree, finding a frequency you can transmit on like all those types of things. So once we started that and we were transmitting PTEN and it was fine. But to keep people coming back you have to have content that's different. So and plus we're noncommercial there. No commercials. Yeah. Right. We don't take anybody else's commercials. It's all that we run ones related to the Poconos. But it's all long form content. It's and we do an actual show called Pocono Perspectives. Yeah, we interviewed folks. We do. Actually, the reason why we kind of wanted to move the Sherman in the direction I just outlined was because we do a show called Pocono Showcase, 22 minute show that actually runs on a number of different networks, and we do a 40 minute show called Pocono Mountains Magazine that's run like all throughout the northeast on other, other stations and, and, networks besides our own. Yeah. So runs in New York, Philly, like a couple of other places. So, the one program we did, Pocono Showcase, 22 minute one, we got an Emmy nomination for, I was like, oh, like so. So we didn't expect that. You know, and we thought, wait a minute, maybe. So I started to connect some of those two things and I thought well and plus it would put Stroudsburg on the map and the pocket amounts. Yeah. So from a marketing standpoint it works. Great quality of life issue here. You're returning the building back to the community. It all kind of works together. Synergistically. Yeah. It all kind of works together. And how has it been so far? You've had it less than a year at this point. Yeah, I think we oh, gosh, September 26th, I can't forget. So we're coming up on six months, actually. Yeah. So it's, we've put a lot of money and time and effort into rehabbing the building. So, there were some safety issues that we had to address immediately, but there were client cleaning issues, like all types of different things that, you know, I have a certain way I like to see a building operate, you know, that you can be you can really do well in customer service, cleanliness, all those types of things that that doesn't require any dollars invested technically. Right. But like detail polish, commitment to customer service, that's kind of really what I wanted to start with. Then we'll kind of start to look at the program and start to change down a little bit. It kind of have it be more broad based. So that's also another thing that we want to do is bring in different types of programing. And then again, offer it for community groups to be able to come in and perform, to do community theater, to do things of that nature. We're not there yet, but I'm hopeful that we'll get there soon. But it does need a more investment. There's no question about that. It needs stage upgrades. It needs, we want to put a generator in for safe. There's all types of different things that we need to do in it for about 3 to 400,000 more in investment to get it to where we need it to be. And we also took over the Sherman Showcase right next to it. Yeah, yeah. I love this though, because, you know, you talked about how the board itself is visionary and the people on there are visionary. But listening to you like it's the exact same thing, you are leading it with a vision of what the Poconos should be or could be I the reason why I love them so much is ideas. Because you know, they I report them because I do. But they're just they're very, very visionary. But I think I've been on a lot of boards in my time. This is just one of the boards that and I report to the board. I'm not on the board, but it just like they just gel so well together. And just when they talk, I mean amongst each other. It's just amazing to hear it. It sparks you to be more creative and more visionary when you're amongst people who are like that. Yeah. And you want to do the best thing that you can for the community. And this is a pretty broad statement. This is more personal probably than anything, but I just don't feel like the Poconos and northeastern Pennsylvania, I think it's it got short shaft, you know, it it hasn't had the attention and investment I think that it really needs. Yeah. And because, you know, you see other parts of the state. So, I know I'm in in Hershey. So I see how that part of the state's been invested in this part of the state has not been invested into in the same way. Yeah. And if it was, if we had the infrastructure, if we had some things that other areas of Pennsylvania have, we could be much, much farther ahead. And I look at the Lehigh Valley and so many of the right things were done there. Yeah. But like I don't Cunningham. Yeah. And he he's it's been measured growth. It's been great growth. It's been great economic benefit. It's good for the community that we need the same thing here in a measured way. But we do need the same thing here. And we just we don't have it. Yeah. So so where do you see the Poconos going in the next five years? I asked you this and I, I probably, I probably cut you off, but you wax poetic. But, I, I think we'll continue to see growth. I think we'll continue to see unique attractions that for instance, there's, a Nordic spa that's opening, in November of 26, maybe even into 27. It'll be the first Nordic spa in North America now. And there are many in Europe, and I think they're ten in Canada, maybe one in Alaska. But this will be the first one in the continental United States. That's great. And there's a plan to expand those. And it's saltwater pools, salt rooms, mud rooms, water therapy. Sounds relaxing. So it's our next team bonding team. And and everybody will hear many of those. Yeah. But the cool thing is the way it's built, it's, it's off 611. It's their dark days, actually. Okay. So yeah, it's with water, but it's it's up in the mountains a little bit more in the mountainous areas near Brookdale. So there is an outdoor element to it, salt pools and cabanas that I think they're going to charge like an admission for that. And everything is. But I mean it's right up like you could reach out and touch trees and yeah, it's pretty amazing. Like the design is, is pretty cool. So I think we'll continue to see those types of unique attractions because we're so close to New York. Yeah. Philadelphia. And people want to get away from those cities. And we've got that, that magic we were talking about before here in the Poconos. That way to embrace nature and be in nature, but also have these amenities. That's great. So you brought up Dante season four. We are live. We are in season four and it is sponsored by Dante and the Swift Water. And I love that day and winter. Let me talk about a family that's been dedicated to. Yeah, to investing in the Poconos, you know, with the socking out of swift water. And I think they're adding the convention, space next to that building. That property is so amazing. It's beautiful. So nice. Well, swim out pools. And, I mean, that's amenities like you don't normally see. And I think the patio with the restaurant there is amazing. Yeah, I like amazing. But the patio the restaurant walks out to buy I think that's all I needed. Oh it. Yes. Wow. It's an amazing property. Yes. We're going to play a commercial break on it right now and we're back. It, it really is such a cool space. So we, you know we say you can have the best vacation of your life there at the Swift Water. But, Chris, I want to ask you what was the best vacation of your life? Anywhere where my kids were. Yeah. I mean, I've always had. You're better human. I know better human being than me. I know this is going to sound weird, but how do I say this? Like, we didn't grow up going on vacation because we didn't. We just didn't have the money to do it, so I had no knowledge of it. My only thing was I got to work. Yeah. You know, so like, my grandmother really instilled the work ethic in me. So I worked and I worked and I worked. I don't really I don't think I really stopped until I was in college. I was like, oh, maybe I could like take a day off, you know, on spring break. And I never did that when I was in school because I had a job at Penn State, with the police department. I and at the time it was like was a great job and it paid really well. Yeah. You know, me too. I was just like, I'll think I'll work over this week, you know? So I did, which is great. But, you know, I never really took a lot of vacations until my kids came along. In fact, I never did like the first one I really took was when my honeymoon we went to the Bahamas. I think we were there three days. That was the first vacation I took in like 20 years. So at least 15, 20, 15 or 20. And then when my kids came along, I just, I really just enjoyed seeing them have fun and just like seeing them maybe enjoy the things I never could when I grew up. And what is it really worth if you can't give you like it was like, oh don't spoil. Oh don't tell me now. I want them to have like opportunities and things that I didn't have. Yeah. You know. So I always wanted to try to do better things for them. And I still sometimes have them like oh I made it. My, my daughter needs that now. She's going to vet school. You know, I like it. That's always like in the back of my mind all the time because I want them to have everything I didn't. But it was interesting week when I lived in Hazleton. We came up here. Yeah. And I used to go to Jim Thorpe, when Jim Thorpe was not anywhere near what it is now. It is. It's, I mean, we'll give Jim Thorpe a shout out real quick. It's insane. It's incredible. It's beautiful, it's wonderful. But it is wild there. Yeah. I think when I first started to here, there's a little story about Jim Thorpe. So the town was preserved very well, which is like a big plus. But if I roll the clock back to the late 70s and early 80s, the town was boarded up. It was really on the brink of oblivion. Yeah, I don't think it ever would have been just because of the physical surroundings, but it kind of was. Yeah. Then they hired a main Street manager and there were 2 or 3 people. She has since passed away. She's in the lady. But there are also 2 or 3 people in the community. And, you know, this could be so much more than they had a vision for it. And the Main Street manager drove it. And the businesses, there were only a few there. And they started to realize, wait a minute, people like this. Yeah. And the train station, I can't remember. I remember going, passenger was an Amtrak train there, I think, at the time, but it wasn't an attraction like it is now. The railroad wasn't there at the time. So little by little by little by little, the town built itself up and to the point of where it is that it was not that way in the late 70s and early 80s. It was kind of like an anomaly. But you had to be local to know people, and I don't know it. I think there was just like so much earned media around it that it just exploded over time. Yeah. But we're trying to do other things in Carbon County to build product around it. So the people have been spoken stay in Carbon or Monroe for a period of time. And that's the other thing we're trying to do a lot of is economic development. Yeah. With our own product but also helping if we had folks calls about data centers because they see our spots all the time in New York and Philadelphia. So we've turned that turn that over to the economic development folks. We run spots in our buys related to locating businesses in the Poconos because we want to be able to help with that, to get other businesses to think about. Wait a minute. I can have a quality of life there. I can be close to cities and, you know, locate my business there. But it goes back to being a visionary, I think. Right. Like your point on Jim Thorpe, was it it wouldn't have become what it was if there weren't people who saw it and built it. And you guys are doing the same thing for the Pocono Mountains, you know, the greater Pocono Mountains. And so we're trying you know, this because you you both know this. You can't do anything without a great team. And I'm just really, really so fortunate that I do have an amazing team. They're highly talented. They're dedicated. They love the Poconos. They just want to dedicate all their treasure and energy. So I teach a class at ESU, and I always tell the one thing I always say to my students all the time is I say, if you're you're going to dedicate your your treasure, your time and energy into something, you need to make sure that you align with that. The alignment to that mission and vision is the end of the day. That's what you have your time and your talent. And I just have time. There's no talent. Jimmy barely has time. There's no boom. Oh, I totally get oh, but I mean, that is like, that's your largest asset. So you have to make sure that you agree with it and align with it. And, you know, we were all young. It's so hard to know. Yeah. I just knew when I was very early in my career and I, you know, I started to work for Hershey. I just I still remember this story. The, the gentleman who was general manager, he hired me. He said, Chris, God, he was such a good guy. He said, Chris, one day you're going to be walking around here and you're going to say to yourself, and I actually say this today in a different way, either love this or I hate it. And Chris, if you say you hate it, it's a job to you will help you find another job. If you say you love it, it's a career and you'll know it. So the one day I was manager and it is really young, it was like 30 or 31, maybe even younger, has walked in the park. It was like seven, seven, 39 was a beautiful like 70 degrees low humidity. The sun was just starting to go down, the lights were all on and all the attractions there were all these families having fun. You know, I could see these little kids and they were great. I was like, I love this place. Yeah. You know, and like it. Just like it hit me, man. I'm like, this is where I'm supposed to be. And I had a lot of people don't get that for their whole life. They just like, they just don't have that moment. I was really lucky that I had it, I recognized it, and I remembered what one of my mentors said, and it was even more impactful. Yeah, that's great. So I was like, yep, this is where I need to be for my whole life. Yeah. What did we not hit that we should have hit? What should we talk about? What? What what? This is your chance to say anything that we we missed. And I want to say this, but, I mean, I do think you guys are really good, and you make the process of selecting insurance, not like, oh, this is a necessary evil. I mean, you're very good at, speaking to clients, evaluating what they need and putting it in an understandable language that even I can understand. And I and I think I have total trust in what you're telling me. And if you even say to me, even if it's not good news, what? I'm not. I'm not sure if they can cover that. Oh, that's okay, it's good. It's because I know that you're giving me the best advice I could get. And I think it. They should be about you, too. I mean, these are the type of businesses we need in the Poconos, and we need good partners that are going to support business, do the right thing, do the honest things, you know. And the second thing I always learned to is do everything that's legal, ethical and moral. And that was a mantra when I first, you know, I said it to my students to like, do everything that's legal, ethical and moral and make sure what you select is a career and not a job. And you'll never have to really work in your life. Right? I would like to go to your class. I feel like you would be a great teacher. I do love teaching. It is such a privilege for me. It's the best privilege and one of the better privileges of my life. I think having kids is an amazing privilege and I love them to death, and I would do anything for them. But I think teaching is a privilege, and maybe that's an extension of having kids, because I feel like they're my kids and I'm not there to get you. Like I'm there to like, how can I help you get through life? Because I remember I had 1 or 2 teachers who they were pretty seminal. Yeah. And if if it wasn't for them, I wanted to crack down on my shell, you know, to try to learn more. for listening to another episode of the Why Am I talking podcast. If you enjoyed this and want to hear more content from amazing personalities in the Valley, please subscribe. Leave a rating and drop us a quick review.