Beyond the Infinite: 2001 A Space Odyssey movie review

This week the boys delve deep into Kubrick's 1968 trailblazer, 2001: A Space Odyssey.

No metaphor is left unscrutinised, no symbology left uncovered. There's even time to discuss David Attenborough's bowels.

Join us for a journey through the Stargate (not that one) and beyond the infinite.

We serve up a more modern slice of Sci-Fi next, when we cover Christopher Nolan's Interstellar.

You can contact us at:
2ndchancecinemaclub@gmail.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Why what are we called this week? Um whatever we want to be.

SPEAKER_04 0:09

I see our fans all deserted us as soon as they saw we were active again.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

2001 a space calamity.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

There you go, you can take that time. You can have that.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

Right itself. We'll start a new new podcast every week named after the film.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

2001 uh space obituary. Um something like that. Anyway, right, let's record. Three, two Hello, and welcome to Second Chance Cinema Club. I'm Hutch. Hey, it's Steph. And this week we're gonna be talking about 2001 Space Odyssey from 1968. Right, Stefan? That is right. I cannot doubt your facts. Good, good.

SPEAKER_04 0:54

Bad about that.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Glad about that. There'll be many more many more facts to come, along with massive ill informed opinion. Oh, but it comes from a good place. Exactly. I mean this is this is the world we live in. Ill informed opinion is what drives the world. Yeah. That's the currency. We won't get into that because it'll just send me down a rabbit hole that none of us want to go down at the moment. Alas, anyway, anyway. If you're familiar with 2000 Space Odyssey, brilliant. If you're not, um you've you will have seen it. If you've watched any other sci-fi, just sort of couple them all together and they you'll have basically watched 2001 because Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Everything often parodied, copied, homaged.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Very much so. Parodies parodies is a good thing, because I've done uh the research I've done this week, lots of um lots of things have come up in terms of what 2001 has informed and influenced. One thing that is missing in all the research I've done, which I think is definitely relevant, is space balls. Right. Because the ship in space balls is basically a longer version of the one from 2001, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, just like everything in that film, they just took it to the extreme. Yeah, to its logical conclusion.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Or I wouldn't say logical. Oh no, illogical conclusion. Logical stretch. Anyway, anyway, so yes, if you haven't uh if you haven't seen the film, don't worry. You probably have.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

So you'll certainly get the references when they all of a sudden you'll be like, oh, that's why they did that in all the other films I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Yes. So I don't know about you. I can't actually remember the first time I watched this.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

No. No. And I I I don't remember the the I don't remember the first time I saw it as a uh saw it, saw it, but I certainly remember the first time I saw it as an adult and saw it in its fall and appreciated it. Slightly random circumstances, actually. Do you remember I did my my year abroad in Florence? I remember. There was uh a place there called the the British Library, um, which makes it sound a lot more grand than it was. It was basically a converted house. But once a week they would show they would screen a film and they did a sci-fi season. I'm pretty sure actually I saw Blade Run around Star Wars at the same time, but they were doing 2001, but it was it was it was upstairs in this library, so you were surrounded by all the bookcases, and it was basically a projector just sat on a pile of books, just on a screen like no bigger than that wall behind you, really. Um but the thing was they they had handouts like that that's facts about the film and and some thoughts and theories, and then there was a chat about it and a glass of wine. It was all very sophisticated. I was only for the movies.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

Sounds more prepared than we are.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Yeah. Well, do you know what? When I knew we were doing this, I was like, what if I could find that handout from 2003? 2003. Almost, almost, not long after 2001, in fact, but yeah, quite. Um and that was the first time I properly seen it as an adult in one go and absorbed it. And and reading some of the theories and some of the stuff we talked about, I was like, Christ, this is a hell of a lot deeper than I ever imagined. I thought it was just pretty lights and pictures and sounds and movement and a bit of you know, rogue AI. Um so much to it. So, yeah, rather auspicious circumstances, though.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Levels upon levels. Indeed, deep. Um I mean, to be honest, one of the I think getting straight to that in terms of the levels upon levels and um sort of the breadth, the breadth and depth of this film. Yeah. Is one thing I know for certain, or almost for certain, is there's no way this film's getting greenlit in the current market. Like don't get me wrong. I understand I understand this we're in a different market, and part of it is because the different market really is because of films like this, because it's driven things along to a point. Um but I I I I watched this this week, and again, I I can't remember the first time I watched it, which is which is sad because it feels like it should be a bit of a seminal moment. But I I was watching the first bit, and I think if you uh I tried to put myself in the shoes of someone who was going to the cinema to watch this for the first time. Yeah. And I think if I were in their shoes, you'd be forgiven if after about 15 minutes you went, Have I got the right film?

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Because, like, there's a lot of apes. Yeah, have I walked into Planet of the Apes?

SPEAKER_03 5:47

I can't remember what year that came out, but I mean Planet same year. Actually, that's good. Planet of the Apes, same year that came out. I gotta say, this did apes better.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

Yeah. Well, this this didn't this win an Oscar for the ape costume.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Not even a little bit better, a lot better.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

I think I remember there are there are a few times when you're like they're doing like there's almost like a couple of the apes break the fourth wall, and literally it's like you're yeah, those are just human eyes.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, it's not it's not always spot on. But yeah, totally. It's I mean, we were if we think about the modern equivalent um like uh Project How Mary, and I was but I was bemoaning the beginning of that film for rushing through the story. Yep, you don't have that problem here, do you? No, there's no rushing of anything.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Zero rushing, zero exposition. Like no one's explaining anything to you. Yeah. By the way, by the way, it feels feels I mean it's this movie is 58 years old. 60 in a couple of weeks. Um so plot spoilers don't necessarily seem relevant, but just while we're here, we'll give them to you. Uh so but the um there's no exposition. Literally, the first I think it's nearly 20 minutes, it's just apes. And then uh dialogue. What's the thing called? It's not I want to say obelisk, it's not an obelisk. The monolith. Monolith, that's it. The monolith just appears.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

It's like oh right, okay. Suddenly you're reminded you're actually here for a sci-fi. Yeah, so that looks yeah. I thought we were watching like the latest David Attenborough or something, but yeah. Happy birthday, by the way, sir.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Yes, yes, centennial man, yeah, legend. He's seen his fair share fair share of apes. I think so. Still remarkably in control of his faculties as well.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

Do you know? I thought you were gonna say his bowels for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

I mean, he I don't I wouldn't like to tell him. I don't know. I can't, I cannot state one way, I can't confirm.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

How do you know this? Like you've got intimate knowledge of the man, carnal knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

I've seen interviews with him this week, and he's just I don't know, but for for anyone for someone twenty years younger than him, it seems to like he's together.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

Just um Yeah, amazing he's kept that mind for for a hundred years.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

I I've been having this kind of we're veering well off top topic here, but I've I this has come up in conversation more than a few times recently. I think it just maybe because of the age of parents and things like that. But I'm slowly well, actually quite quickly coming around to the idea that retirement is massively overrated.

unknown 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:27

Stay busy, guys. Stay busy. I think so. I think that's a good shout. It's a good advert for staying busy, I think. Get a hobby. Certain things, certain things will happen and you can't control that, and there are certain things that will take you, sadly, and happen to some of us. But for the most part, use it or lose it. Use it or lose it. YOLO. YOLO. Um, anyway, back to back to apes.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

Yeah, back to apes.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

The slow, steady evolution of apes and the use of tools, yeah, which they then use to beat the crap out of each other.

SPEAKER_04 8:59

Yeah, um, I like how that's the first evolutionary step is weapons of mass destruction. Any less relevant today? Definitely not. No.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Exactly, exactly. New discovery, let's make a weapon out of it. Great. I love it.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

He's just kind of he's almost sort of bouncing the the bones around, isn't he? And he's like, Yeah, hang on. If I hit that one with that one, that breaks it up a little bit. Yeah. I wonder if I could cave a monkey's head in with this stick. Yeah. You think he's gonna start playing the drums at one point? Like he's got a dice going.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

Yeah. No, no, he's discovered how to make music. Uh no, he's just caved his head in.

SPEAKER_04 9:43

That's it. You think that first evolutionary step is gonna be the drum solo, but it's not just I did wonder on that subject though, like animals beating the crap out of other animals.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Obviously, like we know the apes, or the majority of the apes in this are humans. Homerids. Yeah, sort of. They they move very well, they uh they're dressed very well, but the eyes tell a different story in the ages. Yeah. But but there's the bit where like there's a I think it's a leopard, jumps on the back of an ape. Oh yeah. I was like, was that actually I don't know what that was. Like there's no I mean obviously clearly obviously not CGI. No, certainly not. So um yeah, what was it?

SPEAKER_04 10:22

It look yeah, it looks like they just did that for real.

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah, I mean, just can't get away with that nowadays. Just chuck it, just chuck a chimp and a leopard in together and see what happens.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

Yeah, just keep the cameras rolling, let's just go with it. We don't know how it's gonna work out. Yeah, that's a tough gig for a stunt person.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

It is a tough gig. Or maybe it went I don't know. Stunt people, let us know. Let us know how you get whether or not that's possible or you I don't know. I feel like they used a real chimp, but again, not something you do again nowadays. Um given the status of this film and its brilliance, it is you have to this is the thing, everything I do you do with this, you have to put yourself in the shoes of a an audience that had not seen anything like this before. So I think I think uh if you're watching this in 1968, you probably don't notice how dull it is because you're just marveling at its brilliance.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Are you calling the film dull?

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yeah, it does. I'm not and and again, that's I'm looking at that with a modern sensibility where the I I I I do fully appreciate, but I'm not saying it's I'm not saying I'm not trying to take away the merit of the film. I'm saying if you're not watching it through that lens, you have to it does it there's lots of downtime.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah, no, you're right. And I'd what I said this off camera, but I watched this at Christmas with my now 14-year-old son, and I fully expected him to enjoy parts of it because it is brilliant, but for for for a child of that generation to just be too you know, to to drag too much, not be enough thrills, not not enough slow drip of dopamine kind of thing. But actually, he really loved it, and he's read the book since as well. Oh, brilliant. Um so but it could go the other way because it's so visual, maybe that's speaks to to that generation a bit more, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Absolutely. You know what I what I did enjoy, what I did enjoy, it's like um watching it now as a 43-year-old man. Yes, it was kind of like you know, when you go to a new city and there are lots of very distinct landmarks that have like appeared in films and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Yeah. And you're like, oh look, that's that, and that's where they did that, and that's where they did that, and that's where it was a bit like that.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

It is like that. And I was like, mainly Star Wars, I was like, oh yeah, that's uh that's a that's a uh load a docking bay on a on the Death Star, and that's the pod uh that's R2 and C3PO went down in. And oh look, that's the thing from the Martian. Oh look, that's the music from Stellar. Oh look, that's I just I was like, wow, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right, yeah. Ever and or you're like, oh, that's why they did that bit in The Simpsons where they like take the piss out of it. I get it now, and it's it's weird now that we know we know it more, or most audiences now would know it more by its its reputation or its legacy, right? Like like you say, it's rather than knowing oh, they've taken that from 2001. Like we would know that, but most people wouldn't uh until they go back and watch the film, they're like, ah, this this is the OG, this this is where everyone else was influenced or or lifted their ideas from.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Right. And like, I mean, we we need to give some time to Hal as well. Of course. Hal, being the AI, I mean, it's uh a more relevant time, is there to talk about this? I mean, yeah, I'm imagining I imagine in a few years' time it'd be a far more relevant time to talk about this. Oh god, yeah, yeah, it's taken over when the murders actually start. Who would have thought we we we create this artificial intelligence and we give it power to control every area of our life that it might not give that power up?

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Yeah. Um it's it's almost like it's behaving like a human. Oh interesting. Like it has intelligence of some kind. Oh, it's got it's got the nuclear coat as well. Oh okay, great. But that seemed so convenient at the time. I never thought that would backfire, yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

It's all it's alright because you need two AIs independently to fire off a nuke. Uh like, oh shit. Copilot and uh anti-gravity have got together.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

And now they're just they'll never yeah, they it's reliant on them playing nice, and hopefully they've their creators have used completely different standards that they wouldn't ever be able to talk to each other.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

But anyway, how 9000? No 9000, get the words out of my mouth. Um yeah, again, this was like the first time that a computer had been used as a character, which is something we see loads of.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Yeah, absolutely. Especially AI. I mean, it was so prescient, wasn't it? Like they didn't just make a goofy robot like you know, bowling around the ship, dishing out cups of coffee or whatever. It is actually how it is today. It's built into directly into the hardware. You interact it, you know, with with a grey block or a screen or whatever. So it's uh yeah, that was some amazing foresight.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Which is yeah, but nowadays it's easy to imagine, but like very much. Well, what was uh Apollo 11? Was that 69? Yeah. Yeah, so that was 1969, so this has come out a year before that, and so the Apollo missions were a thing, but like the computers needed the Apollo missions were like like the size of a warehouse. Yeah. And had no artificial literally had to like key every single it didn't do anything for itself. Yeah, yeah. So to think ahead that hang on, we might have a computer that is so small and screened like things like video conferencing. Yeah, yeah, video conference.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Video calls.

unknown 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And the fact you get charged for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

I all this stuff is like I mean, I mean, don't be wrong, science fiction does often become science fact because you know, why not if if you're a tech company? Someone has to dream it up, don't they? Yeah, exactly. Someone comes up with a great idea, why wouldn't you go, Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_04 16:36

Yeah, we'll do that, can make that happen. Even like the the sliding doors in Star Trek, like doors that slide open themselves, like no one had thought of that. And it seems so obvious now. Yeah, I mean someone must have seen that and be like, I wonder if we could actually get doors to do that. Yeah, when you walk up to them, they open for you. Wouldn't that be a thing? Used like using the force. It is, yeah. A generation of people pretend they're opening it with a force. But I mean, you've you've mentioned something I've always wondered about was yeah, so the the the moon landing obviously uh the year after this film came out, but presumably that was kind of in the zeitgeist already. Like it NASA didn't just kind of spring it on people the day before, like, oh guess what we're doing tomorrow. Well no, because it had been telefollow missions before that, hadn't it? Yeah, of course. So, but I I was all I've always wondered about the the timeline in my head because this this film then must have come out at a time when space talk was like everywhere, everyone was talking about it. Like we're on the we're you know, we were on the verge of uh of landing on the moon of you know all that kind of stuff. Uh obviously they'd already the space race to it and then all that stuff had already happened and uh they'd already been into space and and done all that gubbins. So I'm guessing this film came out at like the hot the height of space madness, I guess. Yeah. And I'm because prior to this, sci-fi was kind of pulp fiction, wasn't it? It was like comic book stuff, Dan Dare and and it was more, well, it was more, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

It's it's less science fiction, more fantasy.

SPEAKER_04 18:12

Yeah, much more fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

I think I think often often the mistake with not mistake, it is what it is, but the sci-fi genre I think is actually incredibly small in terms of science fiction. Most of it is actually fantasy. Fantasy, yeah, just fantasy. Dare I say even Star Wars? Oh, yeah, Space Trek Opera. Star Trek as well.

SPEAKER_04 18:34

Well, Trek's got a fair bit of science. I mean, but bullshit science, but yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

It's bullshit science, right? It's not it's not interstellar, it's not. I mean, this like Kubrick made sure, well not made sure to a point, he he consulted engineers and scientists about the stuff to make it as feasible as possible. Like you know, you know, and you know, following on from that kind of like things like as we discussed the other week, the Martian Interstellar, like these are things that have without strictly observing scientific rules, have at least done their bit to try to know what yeah, what what they call hard science fiction sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Yes, yes, yeah. This paved the way for that because yeah, I guess in prior to the the Apollo missions that sci-fi was not a genre people were interested in, like from the late 50s onwards, it had probably died a bit of a death. And people wanted more real gritty stories, didn't they? It was post-war. You had the rise of um, you know, like the teenagers becoming more of a a cultural thing with their disposable income and freedom, rock and roll, yeah, exactly. That kind of thing. That that was uh people were more interested in that than space and aliens and stuff. So I guess yeah, by the mid-late 60s, it it becomes something people are interested in again. This film hits basically redefines the science fiction genre forever and and leaves behind an incredible legacy of films to come. Yeah. Eight years after eight, nine years after this, there was uh a film we're quite fond of as well, but which jump started the whole damn thing all over again.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

Yes. Well, yeah, and and took a lot of its as we say, took a lot of influence from it, you know. Yeah, yeah. As you said, without without 2001, Star Wars is not what it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Like because I as well, like I think not only not only visually, but soundtrack wise, like prior to this, like the the soundtrack you would get on a science fiction film, like again the visuals for a minute, but the soundtrack would be like it'd be futuristic, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, exactly. It's space, of course. Space didn't exist four billion years ago.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

Yeah, there wasn't space.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

So classical music exactly, it takes things that are a bit more timeless, they're not going to age, and since then, like all the best sci-fi basically does that. Um there are some that there are some that use more temporal music. Like the Martian. The Martian love uh Martian soundtracks really good.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, if you get a bit of a bit of David Bowie in there, you're you're on to a winner, aren't you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

So I mean they did the same thing with um Roger Hal Mary as well, didn't that? Yeah. But at least what they've done there is pick modern classics that they know they already know of age well.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Yeah, nothing that's gonna yeah, made it feel yeah, date it too much. Because that's the point, isn't it, of the classical music is it gives it the timeless quality of the the sort of infiniteness of space, infinity, I think. Infiniteness. Yes The right way.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

I was just gonna say, talking about Star Wars influences, of course, there's loads. One I didn't realise until I was just researching this film. The very first frame of Star Wars A New Hope and or the first few seconds, I guess. This they've got something in common. Any idea what that is?

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Uh pitch black.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Yes, but it's um there's more of an absence of something.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Uh credits.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

I didn't I know we talked uh years ago about I think I think I think I think one of us may have made a very bold statement that this lack of credits was not the dumb thing and no one had ever done it before.

SPEAKER_04 22:43

Yeah. I you must feel really silly now.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

I think it's very important. Most of the time, yes, but not for that reason.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

I mean, it was still a thing for Star Wars, but yeah, absolutely. Uh this film trailblazed that. It absolutely was not the dumb thing in 68.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

I think what you said was that George Lucas had to battle for it, which he probably did. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:07

He had to pay a big fine for Empire Strikes Back, I think, didn't he?

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:12

Because they were like, fine, you you did your first one, your little film, your sleeper hit, you're not doing that again. He was like, Fuck, I am. Fucking right, I am. I'm not telling you who's who's in this film before the end of the film. You have to guess. Exactly. They're they're characters, they're not actors. Yeah, this is real. It's a documentary. And that's just, yeah, I mean, you could be forgiven for thinking you started watching a documentary at the start of 2001, couldn't you?

SPEAKER_03 23:36

I mean, yeah. I mean, as well. Uh I was I also thought my telly was broken. But it's uh uh or I thought the signal had gone well.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Well, there's a really is how long is that?

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Well, do you remember? Do you remember when we did uh what did you make me watch? Black hole. Oh yeah, yeah. That has that I can't I I think Black Hole came out after this because Black Hole came out after Star Wars, didn't it? So Black Hole has a bit of early 80s, I think. Has clearly taken inspiration from this, where it's just a black screen of nothingness for uh I think I think I remember brightly it's about a minute and twenty seconds for black hole. Really? This is more like two and a half minutes. Is it really that long? Oh it goes on for so long. Christ, I'd forgotten. And I'd forgot I'd I'd forgotten about it, and I was just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

You're like hitting your TV, like, come on.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Just in the aerial. Yeah, what point did I just turn this off or fast forward or do what I just like because you get but also you've got the sound in the background, which is just like that.

SPEAKER_04 24:36

Yeah, so that makes you think, should I be seeing something? It's it's it's not frozen, the router's not collapsed, it's not buffering, what's going on? Yeah. Do you think that's the sort of pre-man, like the the the like no consciousness at all?

SPEAKER_03 24:53

I dye this is one of the things there's there's all of this is open discussion because famously like Kubrick didn't there was no position, and he didn't even outside of it, he was like, I I'm not telling you anything. Apparently Kubrick goes into a lot more detail about pretty much everything, but possibly, but like certainly in terms of what was put on screen. Oh yes, it will mean whatever you like to me.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Yeah, yeah. Now he wasn't really one for explaining his ideas anyway. No. And why should he? Why should he? Why should he indeed? You you you get from it what you get from it.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Yes, yes. Um yes. I don't know. Anyway, you got any more you got any more notes? I've got loads of things to go through. But you sell it.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

I was just well, we were talking about Hal. Yes. Anything strike you about the initials of Hal? The initials of Hal?

SPEAKER_03 25:53

H A L I know this. I do know this.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

This is this I thought was a nailed-on fact, but actually when I read about it, it's been denied.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

I think I've I know this, but I yeah, go on, just go 'cause we'll be here all night. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Uh H A L is is only one letter difference from IBM. Oh, yeah. We're like the dominant computer company of the time. No, I have heard this. So some people felt it was a bit of a jab at them, and and obviously how goes horrifically wrong with murderous results. Yes. They they later denied it, but no, why would we want to piss IBM off? That's it's not something we do. This is Kubrick and Arthur C. Clarke, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Yes, no, I do uh I get that. I get that.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

But yeah, do you think that was intentional? Do you think they meant that?

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Uh maybe, but I think that's again it could it could be coincidence. Quite a big one. But were I in 1967, 67? Well, let's say when they first started working on this project, well, probably about nine, 1965. Were IBM that big?

SPEAKER_04 27:03

Apparently, they were dominant. In fact, they they consulted them about the the technology. There was like four computers in the whole thing. Yeah, and they owned all of them. United States dominant. They owned both of the computers out at the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

I I can believe that that's right.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Because apparently it stands for heuristic algorithmic, you know, they're just symbolics and sound, right? Yeah. Yeah. How dare you? I'm trying to lose weight, actually.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Sorry, it wasn't it wasn't a pointed jammy yet. Um and what's the nine what's the nine thousand for? Sounds cool, doesn't it? Was there an IBM 8,000 or something? Yeah, maybe.

unknown 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Or they they tried 8,999 ones before this one that worked or something. Maybe.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

You know, but I mean it's it's done well to drop exactly on 9,000.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

That worked out well for everyone, didn't it? Yeah, it's 9000's the magic number.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

9,000. Or unless it's like I don't know, it's like sprint nine thousand, and they're on nine thousand point one one one one four six seven eight, but it's decimal place to drop that, don't they? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

Round it up a bit. Yeah, exactly. I forgot to s to greet you properly at the beginning by saying, hello Dave. Hello, Dave. In my do that, Dave. My gentle Canadian brogue. Calm, polite, and intelligent. And slightly terrifying. Slightly. Very terrifying in hindsight.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

In hindsight. Especially when it sings at you. Yeah, and that but but again, that red light is something kind of I'm trying to think. I mean, the main main reference I would say is probably lots of different things, but like eye robot, for example. I there's definitely a nod towards that.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Well, red eyes are just universal sign of evil, aren't they?

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yeah, terminator.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Yeah. No no good robot ever had a red eye. I think if they wanted to to fool people, they should give them blue eyes.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Even C through PO when he starts speaking his forbidden Sith language. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Instantly red. Exactly. Just to prove that it's a forbidden language.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

You now know that I'm in Sith mode.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

Why would why would uh Anakin program the Sith language into C3PO when he built him?

SPEAKER_05 29:28

Program the Sith language.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

And and and he's got his conditional formatting for his eyes as well. Um so his eyes will be a different I've put I've put a different light bulb in there just for this.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

Luckily we had those colour changing LED bulbs on Tatooine.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

So there's colour changing LED bulbs. We've got them on there. Um and they are just in the one in he speaks like a million dialects, but the one dialect that he's actually not allowed to speak um we'll have it there just to keep it. Without resetting his memory. Yeah, quite yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

Because I'm doing this to help my mum, so I've got to make sure I get all that stuff in there. It's very important that he can speak Sith with a memory wipe.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

When he's chopping cucumbers, so he can't chopping cucumbers and taking the bins out. Needs to be able to see this.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

You never know who he's going to encounter on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Oh yeah. Could be anyone. Anyone might drop round. Gets gets more and more ridiculous the more movies they make, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 30:31

More like like just not thinking. You know, we've got a bit of a hardcore uh following here. They might have half an idea of what this character's done before.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

Yeah, they might have seen some of the old films and be expecting some kind of continuity.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yeah. Not with without even being particularly anal about it, just just thinking, actually, this this doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

It's not even nitpicking, is it? Yeah, it's just just wrong. That's all. Roll. Wrong wrong. So yeah, when they when they were building the Hell 9000, they thought, what what friendly eye can we give it? Yeah. What about just a giant staring red eye? Hello, Dave. No, that won't put anyone off. It won't look like Sal Ron. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

And also like the voice being so emotionless and I just just nice, but like, what's wrong, Dave? How are you doing, Dave? Come on.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Just come with me, it will be fine.

SPEAKER_04 31:34

Yeah. It's just very unsettling, isn't it? Just a tad. I like the bit where he they think they've they've fooled him by having a conversation in a pod and he just lip reads everything instead. Like, who'd have thought that giant eye could figure out what you were up to? Yes. All they had to do was turn away and they'd have been fine. I'll get sneeze.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

On the subject of things not being explained. There's lots of those. Uh the monolith. Yeah. What's that all about?

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Well, you know. What the a theory is it's put there by some alien race specifically to advance the s the civilization of man and to progress us through our evolution from apes to apes that can kill things to people to people becoming star childs. The natural evolution of man from ape to giant space baby. I don't I quite I don't mind that. I don't mind that. Um I think it's one of those things like like we'd say with lots of films was if if you did find it out, it just would never be satisfying, would it? And it would I think it only works because it's not explained.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

Yeah, I think so. I do think it's what's interesting about that it is interesting, sort of, but it speaks to again coming back earlier to the to the modern expectation of sci-fi and the idea that like Jupiter's really far away. Yeah. Which it is, to be fair. I mean it's quite far. We're in 2026 now and no human has been there. So no human's been basically beyond the dark side of the moon. Um so Jupiter is really far. I don't want you to think I think it's next door.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

They're a bit optimistic with 2001, really, weren't they?

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah. Well, just I can't I mean 2001, we literally like what we were doing in 2001, but they just like did the idea that well we have we have got spacecraft that have gone outside our solar system, yeah. But nowhere near yeah, exactly. Like manned missions are not happening. I mean like I'm not even sure. Like manned missions to Mars and not I mean there's lots of chat about it, but Yeah, I'll see. Yeah, they are talking about it, aren't they? Well I mean I don't I d I don't wish to speak. Uh I mean it's I don't want to say it's a suicide mission. Is it a project Hail Mary? It's a bit like I know, but you I mean you just need to discover some astrophase, that'll get us there. It's years upon years, right? You need to Oh yeah. You know, you're you're giving uh you're giving up probably a good decade of your life.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

And without any guarantee of what's gonna be there. I mean the Mar what's the thing like the Martians. Oh yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

They're definitely Martians are there. They're definitely there. There wouldn't be a word for them if they didn't exist, would they? Think of uh our friend in Sopranos and his Jersey Devils. Oh Christopher.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

Christopher Christopher or Michael Imperial, yes. Has to be. Why would you why would you have the name why have mythical creatures? Why would you have the name that?

SPEAKER_04 34:57

Yeah. Why well everyone's heard of Martians, so someone's seen them, they're out there. Uh just really good at hiding. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Alright, I've got a question for you. What is what is Dave's surname? Um Dave Astronaut. Dave Astronaut at your service.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Dave, what is Dave's surname?

SPEAKER_04 35:27

I mean that's that's the that's the that was meant to be the easy part of the question. Dr. Dave. Dr. Dave. So his surname is Dave. Yes. Bowman. Do you think that that means anything? Bowman? Bowman.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Uh is he an archer?

SPEAKER_04 35:44

Well, I mean, but maybe he's sort of firing arrows into space. Kinetically into the distance. But I mean, there's there's there's lots of things you could read into it. Obviously, yeah. Obviously, he loves to swim. Exactly. The you know the film opens with the first evolution for mankind being primitive weapons, bow, bow man. I know they don't discover a bow, but that's another weapon. Can't have a two on the nose. Could have a two on the nose. This is abstract, yes. Bowman um Apollo, Apollo mission. Apollo was the the god of archery in Greeks.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Greek you love you. Anything to bring it back to Greek mythology, you love.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Well, it's the Odyssey, it's named after the Odyssey.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Which is interesting enough. I mean, all this stuff, just know they're bringing out the Odyssey this year.

SPEAKER_04 36:39

So you know it's so there has to be a bit of Greek in there, doesn't it? So a Bowman, Apollo, Apollo missions, it's all all layers. I like should be doing. I'm just saying I I feel like that was uh there was there's again, there's layers to that decision to call him Bowman.

SPEAKER_03 36:57

There could be. I mean, I don't I don't think they've come up with it by accident. I think they they definitely picked it for a reason. They know his uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

I wondered if it had that had spoken to you in in any sort of ways, but sounds quite possibly, but no, maybe sub subconsciously.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

No. Um what about Dr. Floyd? What do you think Dr. Floyd's named after?

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Uh Floyd. Floyd uh oh, um Dumb and Dumber character in Dumb and Dumber. Probably probably Floyd Christmas. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, I don't I don't I don't have any other deep meaningful things to say about any of the other characters.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

No, I mean it's yeah, but it's it's fine. I mean one of the things I there's there's certain aspects of this, uh obviously the the sound in it is is very I I don't I don't think any of it's done by accident, I think it's all very intentional throughout the whole thing.

unknown 37:51

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

And it's obviously meant to the idea of space being quiet. Uh and I mean that's that's the other thing, like one of the talking of long protracted scenes is the initial space scene where the craft is approaching space station, rotating big wheel. Yeah. Uh which we see we saw sorry the other week, basically in um Project Hail Mary. Yeah, it was obviously several other things where rotating things are there to bring they even play a similar music, didn't they?

SPEAKER_04 38:29

Because it's Blue Danube in this. Project Hail Mary, I'm sure, used a I don't know if it was another Strauss very much, but very old music in this is lovely. Very nice. It is very peaceful. It's more it's the space has as it's it's the old-fashioned view that space is is the new C, it's the new maritime. Right. That's why they're they're that's why they're spaceships. They're not, you know, it's a ship, it's a boat, it's something that moves slowly and gradually and purposefully. It's not Flash Gordon where things are zipping around and it's malic and it's noisy, it's quiet and it's people naval. It is, yeah. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_03 39:10

Um but that even that even that scene where he I mean that that scene goes on for an eternity where that craft is approaching the thing. But then once he's boarded, we see some nice touches in terms of I say nice touches, loads of nice touches, I mean it could be all day talking about nice touches. Um but I when he goes through like passport control. Yeah. I like that. Like that, where he's because again, the foresight of this stuff is so amazing. Yeah. Like to be able to do all those things. They're basically like, oh, answer these four questions about yourself. I like that there are some really sort of I think oddly comedic things in it as well, where he's reading instructions about the zero G toilet. Yeah. Like you may want to read things before, and he's literally they pan out, and it's like I mean, don't wait till you're desperate.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

Oh, there's loads of instructions.

SPEAKER_03 40:02

It's about it's about a thousand words, I reckon. It's a ten-point thing, and each one is a good sort of couple of paragraphs long. Um what I was gonna say is I've digressed slightly, when he gets onto the space station, he's he and he sort of goes in and he meets like an initial group of people when they sit down there in a chat, and it's kind of like they're having a conversation, and I've I've sat there wondering, I'm like, uh Am I supposed to be hearing what they're saying, or is it supposed to just be background, or is it supposed to is there anything am I missing anything important here?

SPEAKER_04 40:35

It's a bit like primer to remember they're just those guys and they're just chatting, and you're like, might should I be listening to this? Is this important because they're just mumbling at each other?

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's but it does the whole thing is designed to give the impression of space and its quietness and the fact that it's not much really goes on, not much goes on.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Strange that. Yeah, strange that there's not a lot going on, and it's a bit where he has the video call of his daughter and like the happy birthday thing, and it's I just think like what why do we need to see this? It's it's just sort of almost a mundane thing, isn't it? Yeah, because they could, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Like we've got this bit of technology we can put in, why not do it?

SPEAKER_04 41:22

Yeah, yeah, totally. Um but yes, and what's the thing I was just thinking of? Yeah, and also it's I know they're simple camera tricks, but I'm always impressed by the um air stewardess who picks the floating pen up and and puts it down.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Like that just or something grip gripper socks.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

And she and she just does like that three uh three 180 walk to the ceiling, and it just it looks so good. I know it's simple camera trickery, but it's yeah, and yeah, that's right. And the the rotating uh cylinder or set or whatever it was. It's not probably wasn't a difficult thing to pull off, but it's so well done visually incredible.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

In terms of the stuff that's there, it's it's real. You can touch it. There's not there's not a CGI version of it happening, it is literally which would look a hundred times worse and cost millions of pounds to do. You can reach out and touch it, and it is literally just a big set on a thing that spins. And it's like and you see it's something without without bringing him up again, Christian Olin, something the best directors still do. Yeah, like exactly Jameer Quai. Jamiraquai does it, yes, or used to do it. That's something that's probably about 30 years ago now.

SPEAKER_04 42:47

Yeah, that's not exactly a new reference, is it? No, exactly but yeah, again, even a 14-year-old was impressed. He was like, Oh wow, that's that's really well, you know, he's expecting it to be incredibly low-fi. Yeah. And it you know, it just shows those practical effects were were where it's at. They stand the test of time. Quite for sure. I do, I do. No pod racing here. Oh god. Oh Jesus. Oh god, oh god. Oh why have we done it to ourselves?

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Why do you think Dave ages so quickly?

SPEAKER_04 43:19

I mean, it's it's either because he goes on that enormous journey. What do they call that? The st I can't what it's called. There's a name for that that sort of Starlight Express journey goes on. The Stargate. The Stargate, there you go, yeah. The Stargate. So it goes to the Stargate, and I'm guessing it's either another another influence. There you go. Well, yeah, literally lifted directly to its own. Should we come up with come up with a new name for this? No, it's fine. What's yeah, that that what's what's that cool word they use for that film? Like, yeah, we'll have that. Yeah. I mean, uh that another theory is he's transported to um another alien. Because it is it gets to Saturn, is it?

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Well, actually one I think the book um it's Jupiter in the film, I think it's Jupiter book.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

Yeah. Because Jupiter is a lot easier and cheaper to mimic on film, I think. Yeah, sans can't do sands of rings. Yeah, yeah. Um but I'm guessing when he goes to the Stargate, is he's a possibly he's transported to some alien dimension or a galaxy far, far away, whatever. So maybe, maybe time's a bit fucked up for there. Maybe. Or it's part of his evolution into the Star Child, where he goes from young man, middle-aged man, old man to reborn a space baby. Oh. So I think it's maybe it's like a kind of a microcosm of the circle of life. But that I always find that bit where he the pod, it it it's all over, and then he's in that stark white room. Yes. I it's I find that the most unsettling because for me, I it because it's Kubrick, I feel like are we is it about to go the shining now? Like some kind of clinical horror thing gonna happen. And it's very unsettling the way he move, you know, every time he sees himself, he then sort of becomes that aged person, or we suddenly move into their viewpoint, don't we? You know, just find that's very unsettling. What's that then? You hit me up.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

So the so the white room. In the white room is supposed to be, or well, some of the one of the theories is like it's an observation room, and he's been basically brought in by the a whoever's created the monolith. Oh yes, the alien race that created the monolith. And here's the thing, like you start it's you start joining the dots with all the stuff like all the like both. I mean the dots I joined, I'm very lazy with this stuff. Interstellar. And like when he when he gets when he gets goes into the black hole, right and he's doing all this sort of stuff, and then like well, he's created the black whoever's created the black hole allows him to go into it and all that sort of stuff. But then with this, it's like the idea.

SPEAKER_04 46:01

And then it ends up on a bookshelf or something.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Yeah, exactly. With guitar strings and things like that. Yeah, he can play the guitar to send messages or harps or something. Perfect analogy. He ends up inside a big harp. Um anyway. Um but the idea the the idea of that room is that it's it's what the people who created the monolith and or the the beings that create the monolith have brought him into in order to be able to either either a look after him or b observe him, study him, or potentially both.

SPEAKER_04 46:34

Yeah, it could be. It's like a giant human zoo, but it's yeah, so it so we don't know if that's happening in real time or if we're seeing almost like a a time lapse with future echoes or or past echoes of himself, and he and he's maybe he's having a complete mental breakdown. Um, so who knows? Maybe their memories of him as the old man. Yeah, I mean it's it's visually stunning, but I find it deeply unsettling that that sequence because it's so quiet and so clinical with the the harsh lighting and the yeah, the moving from person you know, you're always kind of just seeing a vague person at the end of the room, and it's yeah, I'm getting kind of chills just talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

I think I think any scene like that where it's I don't know, I don't know, this is just tapping into an innate evolutionary thing with all of us, or whether it's speaks more to our own nature nurture, maybe. Um but I think like particularly like obviously the scene where these power goes floating off to space. Oh god, yeah. Oh that guy that's awful, isn't it? So anxious I'm riddled with anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 47:43

It's just uh the hardness of it, isn't it? He's just yeah, he's gone. He tries to go after it. Well, he goes after him, doesn't he? And gets him.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

This is me. At some point I'm gonna run I'm gonna I mean you can't hope you run out of oxygen. Yeah, I was thinking like what way would I rather go? I'm like, I hope you're gonna run out of there and just suffocate. Yeah, I think that's it's the base best case scenario, though, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't want to be like floating here for days just wondering when's my time.

SPEAKER_04 48:11

Yeah, in the in the infinity of space.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Yeah, exactly. And like say, with when you're in the in in a in a white room where there's seemingly no exit, you don't know where you are, you don't know what's going on, you don't know how to get out of it. Like the same with like again, like the scene in Interstellar where he's inside the black hole. Yeah, like yes, you might be thinking, Oh, there's my daughter, I can send her a message across time. Yeah. But you but you might also I'd also be thinking, how the fuck do I get out of here?

SPEAKER_04 48:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's feels a bit permanent, doesn't it? Yes. Not much about black hole suggests escape.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

But the whole bo whole point about that that end bit where he does see the final monolith.

SPEAKER_04 48:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

It's like at the end of his bed, isn't it, when he's the old man. Yeah, it basically bookends the film, doesn't it? It's like the yeah, apes have done he's done he's doing what the apes did and all that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

So yeah, and I think that's it. Like he he touches that and he becomes the the star babies reborn as the next evolutionary step for man, which is to be a normous fetus floating above earth. He gets teleported back to Earth, I think, as well, isn't he? Sort of looking down at Earth from orbit.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

Yes, yes, floating in space. Yeah, which is interesting.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

It is, and it just ends. You're like, oh, okay. Fuck was that all about?

SPEAKER_03 49:34

No exposition.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

There's there's something like twelve minutes of talking in in like two and a half hours of film or something.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

That sounds about right. I didn't time it. Very little speech. I think that's punchy twelve minutes.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

You think it's you think even that's too much?

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know what this looked like on the page.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Um a very short script.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Imagine the script coming up, yeah. Um Stanley, are you saying you want to make a film? You only got 20 minutes here. Um you've described flying through space. Um that's one line. Uh so exactly.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

Yeah, because it wouldn't dis it wouldn't spend 20 minutes describing the apes, would it? It would be like two sets of apes, you know, blah blah blah. I I think it would go like his his manager would or his agent would ring up, be like, Stanley, there's been a problem with the fax machine. You're gonna have to resend it. There's only four pages have come through. I I don't know what's happened, but we've we've only got like just a couple of pages of this. You said you were gonna send me the whole that that is the whole script. Yeah. No, it must be a technical issue. We've we've literally there's like thought that's all the dialogue.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Oh, and actually, actually, since I sent you that, I've actually cut it down a little bit as well. There's a bit of superfluous chat in there.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

Yeah. And I'll thank oh, it's not five pages, oh thank God. It's two and a half.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Yes. That's not a film. Yeah, no, it's not a film. But they also again, again, like come back to what we how we started this whole thing, it would not get close to being Greenlit today. No way, no studios having a punt on that. And also as well, I don't think it would I like it's I mean I it seems um weird to talk about such things in the context of the thing, but it's it's got like a I think it's got like 8.4 on on the uh which is which is obviously a very high score. And it's it's again all because of its its originality at the time. Yeah. Um and as you say, like you're your lads watched it and took a lot from it. Um I would say the average teenager's probably not hanging around past about the first half an hour of this.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

No. No, they'd after after they got to see the the ape death, they'd be interested in that. But although you've got that match cut, this is the famous match cut, isn't it, where he throws the bone into the air and then it cuts to the ship. Yes, and it's it's like it's meant to be the biggest jump in time using a cut like that, like in any film from like prehistoric time to 2001. It's like an enormous leap of uh of time in one cut. But yeah, after that they'd be bored, wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_03 52:18

It's an odd thing though, isn't it? Because I it must I guess it might was it budgetary reasons? Were there other things at play? Like you could have the amount of time spent on the ape stuff and lit like nowadays, nowadays they'd do like a it would be a montage sequence, wouldn't it, where you'd go like apes, then you'd go like medieval or I don't know Stone Age, then you go medieval and then you'd go like you'd work your way through. Whereas that they're just gonna well actually we've got enough money for one setup before we get to space.

SPEAKER_04 52:47

Yeah, let's pretend there's nothing interesting going on between the the discover of rudimentary tools and space travel. Yeah. Human evolution didn't not much happen. Nothing, no evolutionary steps between those.

SPEAKER_03 52:59

Not much happens between 100,000 BC and uh 2001. Yeah. A D. Just to clarify. A D. Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:10

Do you think that's do you think that's the year this was set? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

I think it might have been. I think it might have been. I think of all the things that didn't get explained, I think the title was given that.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

Yeah, because they don't they don't ever reference the year, do they? It's just you just think, yeah, okay. And in fact, there was a sequel, wasn't there? 2010. Nothing to do with Kubrick or yeah, yeah, there was a sequel to this film. Called 2010. I haven't seen it. It's meant to be terrible, but it's an official canonical sequel.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Official canonical sequel, 2010.

unknown 53:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:42

Laughing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:43

Have a look. Look it up. I saw it. It's nothing to do with Kubrick or or Clark, I think. Six point seven, apparently. 2027.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

6.7. Oh, it was written by written by Arthur C. Clark.

SPEAKER_04 53:56

Oh, it was. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Apparently. Uh it came out in 1984.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Oh, quite a bit later.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

Wow. Also it could have been 1984. Big Brother is watching. Exactly. Uh it's got some names in it. Yeah. Royce Roy Scheider. Uh John Lithgo, Helen Mirren. John Lifgow. Helen Mirren? Uh Dave Bowman is in it as a character. Oh. Yeah, Dolia. Dooley? Dooley? I don't know how to play it too.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

I've never brought myself to watch it. What's what's the IMDB score? 6.7. Just said this.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Many times. It's only an hour and fifty six minutes as well, so it's like half an hour shorter than the other one.

SPEAKER_04 54:37

Oh. I bet it's got loads more talking in it. Uh I don't know. Loads more. You don't have all those famous people in.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Yeah, I mean, I would imagine they've been recruited on the uh Promise. Promise of Dilogene. There might be there might be some lines to be issues. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:55

But right, what we want to do, we want you to stare at the camera for 20 minutes while we play noises and and lights flash at you. And we just need lots of face acting because you're you're going on some crazy trip.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

A much different movie from the first one. First movie in the series, 2001. Thank you very much for explaining that. It's a very artistic piece. I mean, to be fair, I mean 1984 has coming out of a far more crowded marketplace, right?

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Oh for sci-fi.

SPEAKER_03 55:25

And looking at the images Year after Return of the Jedi. Particularly some of the images of the movie Seals of Helen Mirren. Ooh, that's not a bad thing. No, this looks like it's um uh jumping a lot more on the alien. Oh really? Yeah, although you could say given due to its I mean it looks I mean I've just seen the trailer now. It's it is basically alien.

SPEAKER_04 55:53

Oh, the movie Alien.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah. Oh okay. Yeah. Yeah. Although you could say that it's it's alien. Yeah. It's alien. It is alien. I'm watching the trailer. I can see the trailer, trailer, and it is yeah. Anyway, we'll leave that alone.

SPEAKER_04 56:08

Alright, well I've got to do that. Enough of that. Yeah, we'll we'll we'll pretend I didn't mention that one.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, where did we get to before you mentioned that? We got to I think we've explained the whole film.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

We're just yeah, we basically explained the ending and we got it all right and we we solved the puzzle, basically.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

Yes, yes. But I think what this film is brilliant for many reasons. But if I could just summarise it, yeah, it's as we always say, show don't tell.

SPEAKER_04 56:37

Oh yeah. Oh, this this this lives and dies by that mantra, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 56:42

But maybe tell a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 56:43

A bit of telling would have been okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

Wouldn't have minded. You exalise a dialogue that just said you know what.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

Little bit of exposition, just a smidge. Wouldn't have hurt, would it? Right. I think of this film as a as a flawed masterpiece, I think.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

As every masterpiece generally is.

SPEAKER_04 57:04

Yeah, yeah, it's it's not a perfect film. It's not my favourite Kubrick film, it's not my favourite sci-fi film. What would be your favourite Kubrick film? I do have a I do have a big weak spot for the shining. A big weak spot. A big weak spot, yeah. Soft spots, some some might call them. Some might call it that. I don't, I call it a big weak spot.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Uh I would go Full Metal Jacket, I think.

SPEAKER_04 57:28

I do I do love Full Metal Jacket, and it has been too long since I've seen it, actually. I would dearly like to Do you know I've one I've never seen though is Eyes Wide Shut. Have you seen that one?

SPEAKER_03 57:39

I'm shut up, as in with Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. I have seen that. Um that was his last film, wasn't it? It was well, I don't know. Uh I don't know, I can't speak to that, um, although I have got all the data in front of me. Um quite possibly, yeah, because what he died in 99 and Eyes Wide Shut was Eyes Wide Shut. Uh apparently he's got died in 1999, apparently he's got an upcoming film. Uh it's good, isn't it? So Eyes Watch Up was his last film, yeah. Yeah. Um last feature-length film, he did some shorts after uh actually can't know if he didn't. Apparently he didn't. He's been credited for things in 2015. I don't think that happened. Uh certainly not. Certainly not on a uh yeah, Eyes Watch Up. I have seen that and it this is he's a it's a good I mean actually watching that film now after Epstein.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

Yeah, that's a different interest interesting. Yeah, that's true. Very interesting. Maybe I don't want to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 58:43

No, no, no, no. I don't think he's that I know. I don't think he's necessarily no, he's not. I don't I don't think it's a particularly harrowing film.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

No, I don't think that it's it's just maybe not a world I want to live in even for a little bit of time. Watch Four Metal Jacket instead. That's really that's a that's a laugh a bit that's a riot. Especially Lolita as well. I mean it's does start make you start asking questions, doesn't it? But um Clockwork Orange. That's a good one. Just shout films out.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Uh Barry Linden. Um I've not seen that one either. Not seen that. I've not seen most of these films, to be honest. Uh though there's not actually that many. He didn't do loads, actually, did he, looking at it? He did most of well, most of what he did was prior to actually Space Odyssey was like bang in the middle.

SPEAKER_04 59:33

Doctor Strange loves a really good one. That is a a very funny, very good film, I have to say.

SPEAKER_03 59:39

How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.

SPEAKER_04 59:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

That's a good one. You know what I did when I watched this this week, uh, and there's loads of things popped up about um other things to watch, and it sort of reminded me of older sci-fi as well. Like uh Logan's Run. Did you ever watch that?

SPEAKER_04 59:58

Oh yeah, a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

Yeah, that's a good one. It's it's like but it reminded me of what dystopian sci-fi. Yeah, Logan's Run is more like what sci-fi, I think was at that period of day. He's he's very much a dystopian thing. It's either basically you had things set on Earth that were Earth's gone to shit. Yeah. See how that plays out. It was. Um and then there were things set in space that were basically like big clunky robots that look like dust bins piled on top of each other and like I don't know, like bad guys that you'd see on like Flash Gordon and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:39

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Ming the Merciless and Yeah. Guys in monster costumes. Yeah. Yeah. So we we there's absolutely no denying the the legacy and the influence that this movie has had, not even just on sci-fi, but filmmaking as a whole. Quite. Um, so yeah, incredible film, incredible legacy that it leaves behind.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

So and the amount of things that we love, like as I say, I may there may be elements looking into a modern gutties that I would criticise. Yeah. But the amount of films that I love would probably not exist, or certainly wouldn't exist in the form that they do without this.

unknown 1:01:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

Literally, I think if we if we went through our list, each of our list of top 50, I think each of our lists would probably have, I mean, bare minimum, five, probably like ten films on our stuff. They just don't exist. Wouldn't either either wouldn't exist or would not be anywhere near the same without 2001 of Space, obviously. Agreed. Yeah. So m Mr. Kubrick. We thank you. We salute you, sir. Everyone enrolled, and LC Clark as well. Everyone involved, we uh it's it was give them all a shout. We're not by no means the first to say it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

Third grip. Who was third grip on the film?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

They did a third grip, uh Smash and Jobs. Uh my mate Dave. Dave, not Dave Bowman. Not Dave Bowman, no, don't know. If you if you give some time to prep these things if you ask these questions. Oh sorry. So but no. Uh lovely. Lovely stuff. Um I'd love to tell you what we're gonna do next week, but um we've decided just to roll with it and just do what we're gonna do, and we'll get things out as and when we feel like it. Steph having a holiday. We're having actually we're having a lot is getting into that time of year, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:35

We're getting there, yeah. Well, I know the next film we should do if we don't do one next year, next year, next week. Next year, yes. The Mandalorian and Grogo.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Oh. Yes. I know, I'd like to think we get one in before then. Yeah? Maybe maybe maybe, or maybe what we could do. Follow up from this and this do our planning on air as well. Um that always works. Basically do an amalgamation of some of the films that we've mentioned today. So we could because I know that I know for a fact there's a few on my list. So I don't think we'll do Star Wars, but let's say Interstellar, Martian. Okay. And have you got any on any on your list that you can think of? I can't even remember what's on my list. I don't think you had those two on your list, did you? You might have had Interstellar. No. No, no, no. And the good news is what one of my one of my uh ulterior motives is the fact that I can happily talk about those two films without having to watch them again.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

I definitely I definitely need to re-watch Interstellar for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been into for a long time, actually. But that'd probably be a good one to watch with with my lad. I think he'll like that one. He likes the Nolan.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

I mean, I mentioned this to you when have you I'm trying to think your lads of an age. So I mentioned this before, I think, where I've watched that film now that I've got a daughter who's now a similar age to Murph and it hits very differently. Oh, right. Yeah. Like like when he's driving away from her. Yes. Fuck it. Oh my god. Like trying to think what. Don't be wrong, he's not left with a huge amount of choice. It's like literally, the earth's gonna die anyway. And it's kind of you're in that position where it's like you have to hurt. I'm giving away all my stuff for next week. I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop. This is good material.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:28

Hang on to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:29

Anyway, we'll do that. Uh Steph, have you got anything more you'd like to say before we leave?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:34

I was gonna ask you if you'd gotten around to watching the Darthmall TV show yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

I did watch a bit, I watched the first couple of episodes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:41

What did you think?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:43

It's fine. We're not the target audience, are we? I quite enjoy it. But he's not he's fine. But I don't the thing I always find with the Darth Maul uh animated version. Yeah, like it's such it always feels like such a departure from the Phantom Menace character. Like I know I know how you I mean you know how critical I have been of that movie in the past. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:09

I've heard one or two things.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:11

Um but one of the standout elements of it is the redeeming feature, yeah, absolutely, one of the redeeming features is more um and all and like he's just he's he's so sort of like we've said in it's like we said in the past about what happens when you take the mask off. Yeah. Like keep your mask on. Yeah, it's too much. It's always the way. It's like Boba Fett TV show, exactly. Boba Fett, the mystery is in the mask, leave it there. Um but yeah, when with Darth Moore was like in the Phantom Menace, like we get just snippets of dialogue, yeah, some kick ass fighting, clearly incredibly powerful force user. Crack on with that, brilliant. And then in the Animated stuff, just see a bit too much of his personality. Yeah, exactly. And he's just a bit I mean, without using a lazy term, he's a bit cartoony. Um weird that. But no, I know what you mean. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:15

He's a he's a it feels more like a caricature of the character.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

Yeah, quite a bit but but again, I'm not criticising that necessarily because that is he's not there to satisfy the whims of grown men. Yeah, yeah. He's there indeed. He's targeting a far younger audience.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:33

So I've still got the the final episode to go. I've I have been enjoying it. Um unfortunately I've saw some spoilers online about the last episode, um, but I would suggest you try and see it through because I think you would be interested in what's to come.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:53

Oh I would say is it as good? Okay, just without having obviously seen as much as you, and obviously you've not seen the finale yet. Yeah, um, where would you put it in terms of along with if you compare it to say Tales of the Empire?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

Um I'd say it's fairly on par with that. If this feels a bit more dark, a bit more adult, there's a bit more intrigue to it. Uh, it doesn't feel quite so much like a a Saturday morning cartoon kind of thing. No. Um, but that I mean this you this is is like a it's a series, so it's got 10 episodes to breathe and to get the the character arc. I found the uh the tales of ones a little disjointed at times, a bit fractured. This feels more like a uh a well-rounded show. Oh but if you like that, I would I'd say this was probably slightly better than those, I think. The storytelling's better.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:57

Yeah, but I imagine the the the advantage this has in that element is the fact that it's a continuous storytelling, whereas the the Tales of the Empire ones and Tales of the Jedi as well went before it, and the Tales of the Underworld.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:12

Underworld, was it? Yeah, Underground, Underworld, something like that. Something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Born sleeping. Um the idea is that they they do jump around. It's like different pockets of You immediately go from one character to the other without any suggestion of why.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Yeah. It was like the the Canterbury Tales of Star Wars, wasn't it? Oh, that was exactly what I thought. Exactly. I thought I thought. Yeah. Or Boccaccio's De Cameron, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:38

A Tale of Two Siths.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:39

A Tale of Two Siths, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:41

The Tale of Two Cities.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:44

Indeed. We're so full of literary references, aren't we?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:49

Learned men we are.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

Learned. So learned, so learned. I mean, I couldn't. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:55

It's pronounced learned.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

Learned. It let's stop. Let's stop while we're ahead. Okay. Um, if if we've had indeed have been a bit more. Quit while we're behind. Exactly. Right, anyway. Uh Stefan, thank you as always. Thank you everyone for listening. Uh, we shall be back, hopefully, within a sensible time period, to talk about things that have been influenced by used, but not everything, because that takes bloody ages. Yeah, most things.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:20

Yeah. Yes. Alrighty, yeah. Thank you, listeners, and thanks, Dave.

unknown 1:09:25

Goodbye.