Sympathy for the Cyclops: The Odyssey movie review

Like two burly gods masquerading as beggars, Hutch and Steff are infiltrating the feasting halls and... getting a clear view of men from below? Not sure where that was going, but in any case, this week we talk about Christopher Nolan's new blockbuster epic: The Odyssey. 

In a rare case of proactivity, we are reviewing a film that's still early in its cinema run. We've seen it three times between the two of us and are now ready to impart our knowledge upon you, faithful listeners.

Spoilers abound, so like a divine prophecy from Athena- you have been warned!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hello and welcome to Second Chance Cinema Club. I am Hutch and he is Steph. Stefan, how are you? Hello, Hutch. Yeah, I'm doing really well, thanks. How about yourself this fine evening? Very, very good. Quite warm. Quite warm is what I am. Still quite warm. Yes, warm and dry. This arid, arid landscape we're currently living in in the UK. Drought almost. I mean it is. I mean, I don't know the last time you had rain round your way, but it's been a good few weeks here. I can't remember when we had rain though. As a man of a certain age, I'm starting to be feel very concerned for my grass. Oh, yeah. This is why I don't I have very, very little grass. My lawn is starting to look quite patchy. Oh, a patchy. I mean, alas. It is a small price to pay. I I mean don't be wrong, there are bigger problems in the world that derive from having no water. Um I would rather a patchy lawn than not being able to drink. Um I'd rather have fluids. Yeah. I think we'll be okay. I think we'll be fine. I think we'll be fine. It's a small price to pay. Small price to pay. Um, anyway, you haven't joined us this week to listen to us talk about droughts and hose pipe bands and the like. Uh, we're going to be talking about the Odyssey. Yes. Which for us is is unusual, really, because it came out recently. Yeah. Last week. Last week. Um and for those who uh have not heard Stefan and I before, or those who have heard us and just haven't paid any attention to anything we've said, which is both are very likely. Um this is unusual because what normally happens when we do films that have recently had a cinematic release is Steph will be uh very thoughtful and plan ahead, and he will book tickets and he will go and see the film very soon after it comes out. Normally in the first week, I would say. Yeah, release. He then, being the kind gentleman to use, waits very patiently while I do fuck all. Um and then I run around like a tits days before it's about to leave cinemas, finding somewhere where this that's still showing it, and we watch it. And then we release an episode about a movie that is no longer in cinemas and is of zero relevance to anybody on the planet. Yes. This, however, we have both seen it. Still fresh. And I don't know about you, Stefan. I have actually seen it twice. Really? Mmm. Ooh. That shouldn't surprise me, but it does. I've seen it in both four. It shouldn't surprise you given that I sent you screenshots of both my bookings, and you sent me a response that suggested you hadn't picked up at all on what I'd sent you. No, I didn't actually. I just that that that did not sink in whatsoever. All I saw was that you had you bought three tickets, and I thought, has he got other friends, or does he like putting his feet up? You've got other friends. No, I I like my popcorn and my oversized drink to have a seat as well. Yeah, I think that's fair. No, I had I'd I went I went with other people, other human beings. Uh not only did I go twice, I went twice on the same day. Good grief. Good grief. And I saw it in two formats. Wow. I saw it in 35, and I saw it in IMAX, full IMAX. And we shall talk. Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to hearing your views. About my differing opinion of the two formats. Oh, wow. Cool, let's just kick things up a notch. Assuming I do have a differing opinion, of course. Well, I presume you do. Was IMAX worth it? Was it? Well, actually, actually, on the subject of was IMAX worth it, regardless of what I'd felt about the film and its versus its 35mm version. I assume it's 35. I don't know. I correct me, feel free to correct me at any point. You know what you're talking about. No, that's stuff I've got no idea. It would be, yeah. Um, and uh on that subject, you will know far more about what you're talking about with this because Steph is our resident expert when it comes to uh Greek mythology. Uh expert out of the two of us, yes, I would say. Yes, you are by far. In any other average room, probably not, but in this room the more informed. Um so uh on the subject of value of IMAX, by the way. Uh I went to see it at Cineworld in Sheffield, which very luckily for me short drive from my house and has the full IMAX screen. That's awesome. Which I understand, I which I I'd sort of taken for granted for several years. Now I now I understand that that's not normal. There aren't actually that many in the country that most people can drive ten minutes down the road and see it. Um alas, uh what I was getting into with the value, regardless of what I thought of the movie, which we'll get to later. £7.50 for a ticket. That's a bargain. That is bonk that to see anything like a standard movie that is mental. £7.50. Wow. Yeah. Are they they're desperate? What's going on there? I I have no idea. Was it no DC? Oh, it's packed, it was packed. I mean, you're talking I I don't know exactly how many it holds, but I'd say as a rough estimate, it's it's minimum 500 it holds. Wow. And it was full, absolutely full. Well, I know the Waterloo one is booked out for weeks and weeks to come. It was it was it was mental. But when I booked on, like I said to the point where I was like, I had to double check, I was like, I've not put like a concession in here accidentally or something, or or that we're gonna turn up and they'd be like, excuse me, sir, you're not a old student or something. Yeah, exactly. Um, and I'd sent like the two of my mates who I went with, I booked the tickets because I was a bit I my mate messaged me and said, Oh, do you want to go and see it Saturday night? I was like, Well, I didn't say this to him at the time. I only admitted, I only admitted what I was doing later. I was like, Well, I'm actually going Saturday afternoon as well. Um but yes, I do, uh, and I will, because I planned I'd planned I had planned to see it in both formats anyway. Um and seeing them that close together meant I did get to give it a real good going over in terms of the comparison between the two. Um but I so I've I've I booked the tickets. I said, I'll be honest, when it comes to IMAX, I'm a bit fussy about seating, so leave it with me. Yeah, you leave it up to them, they booked the front row or something. Well, no, well, no, I don't think he would have done, but I I thought it best to just Just in case. Yeah, but anyway, so Saturday night viewing, we bear in mind the weekend it came out we only booked Saturday morning. Uh there was nothing left behind row H. Okay. So we say in row H and it wasn't too bad. It wasn't about mid. That's eight, that's row eight, if you're not counting up number left. How many rows though? Uh I think it goes up to Z and a bit. Okay. It's like it's yeah, it's a big, big theatre. Yeah um and obviously very wide as well. Yes. Um, but it was yeah, I had a little bit of a crick in my neck, but it wasn't too bad. I mean, there's there were lots of people who came in after us who were sat in the first couple of rows, and honestly, I just I can do that. You had to literally m move your head around to look at things. I was I was struggling. I was struggling at times like where we were sat, like I say, we were we were eight rows back, and there were times when I was struggling to my eyes couldn't focus quickly enough. To process everything, yeah. I just I couldn't change I just I don't know, just my oh my slightly aging eyes and it being late at night, I like could not focus quickly enough to stop. I was like, is this blurry or is it me? So it's not blurry, it's definitely plus you've already seen it, so you probably is your brain. I was actually, I do know what I thought I having seen it the second time, I I thought, you know what, actually, I can chill out here, I'll relax a bit. You know what? I might even have a couple of toilet breaks. Yeah, um, but I didn't I was yeah, I don't want to get too much into what I thought, but like I was I was equally engrossed the second time. If not more so, because I kind of I knew what to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Had the kind of the opposite effect where I was like, oh, I really want to pay there was one particular scene which we'll get into later when we get to the spoilery bit. Um there was one particular scene what the first time round, the two people I'd gone with in the afternoon, all three of us kind of misinterpreted it a bit. Uh I think I think we misinterpreted it. Interesting, but uh we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Uh whereas I got I got to see and it was what was interesting is that same scene at I don't know about the third person, but at least one of the people that I was with in the evening showing immediately had the same misinterpretation. Oh interested to hear what that is. That's interesting, yeah. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. But anyway, anyway, anyway. Have you got anything you want to mention before we get into the movie and start give people a big spoiler warning? I was the only thing I was gonna say was when you did send me the barcode of your tickets on, my only thought was can I get to Sheffield and get this scanned in before he uses them and get 40 quid on fuel to save myself £7.50? A four-hour drive just just to screw his evening up. But uh I tell you what, it's worth it's worth remembering. It's worth remembering for future IMAX stuff, though. You just come up for the weekend and we'll make a weekend of it. Oh, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be waterloo. Yeah, I know. Who does that? Last time I went there was to see the bloody Lego Batman movie, and that's not really something that needs the 70 mil treatment, if I'm honest. Wow. So I'm I'm due seeing a proper film at the IMS. Yeah, one of the one of the things I will warn people about, not just the spoiler warning, but um the word epic might get thrown about quite liberally over the next hour or so. But in its proper meaning. Indeed. One of the things if one of the things I can say straight up straight away without any spoiler warning or anything, is the word epic gets massively overused, particularly in relation to cinema these days. Uh this deserves that title, just every bit of it. There's nothing, yeah, there's nothing wrong about using it for this movie. Yeah, and and in fact, it's and it's based on an epic poem, so it is literally epic. There you go. By homosexuality, proper use of it by and this this is a proper spoiler because this film is still out. People could still we we could still be spoiling this for people normally. I mean it's it's it's it's how much of it is spoilers. I mean, in terms of story, yeah, that's a it's a very old it's a 3,000-year-old story. Yeah, yeah. Can we spoil it for people? I mean, we definitely can. Yeah. Do you know? But it's way. Well, my one of my favourite bits in this was that that they kind of it spoiled the film sport itself. And I'm this I'm not gonna give a spoiler warning yet because this isn't a spoiler. If you know who this character is from legend, you'll know. If you don't know, you don't know, and it won't ruin anything. But when Cersei introduced herself. Oh, okay. And I was like, Oh, here we go. Hey, I know what she's gonna do. Yeah, yeah. But but also even if you know this, even if you know the story, we could still spoil the way that this film has interpreted the story. Which is why we won't say anything just yet. Yeah, exactly. The way the way that the the delivery could definitely be spoiled. Yeah. Um so yes, we will get to that. Anyway, I think now's probably the time to issue the spoiler warning. Anything we say from this point, do not hold it against us if you choose to listen. Uh and away we go. You have so warned Stefan. Yes, The Odyssey. Yeah. Directed by Christopher Nolan, starring Matthew Damon. Yes, among us. Among many, many. I mean, literally I will I will I I we may mention individual actors and as we go through, but I'm not going to give anybody beyond that at the moment because I just haven't got the time. This is uh ridiculously stacked with just top class acting talent. Yeah. Many of whom would quite comfortably be the stars of their own. Leads in their own right, yeah, absolutely right. Um, and yeah, we may mention the individuals as we go, but we'll say Matt Matt Damon for the moment plays Odysseus, who is obviously the star of the thing. The titular hero. He is the star of the thing. Actually, we'll start with that, because I interestingly, after about 20 minutes, I was like, hmm. Is his son actually the star? Oh right. Telemachus. I wasn't sure, not not wasn't sure, but it felt like something was building at the start of it, like a bit of subverting expectation where it felt like the Tom Holland character, and I but I by the way, I'm gonna use actors' names a lot in this because the actual names Telemachus. I don't I don't yeah. Uh Telemachus, he Oh, this is his son. Yeah. It felt like he was being sort of pushed forward as the actual lead role at the start. Yeah, it does does feel a bit like that, and uh it's it's a bit early to start saying, Oh, they changed this from the story. No, it's not, no, I that's what that's his you that's his role today. Oh, okay. I mean I I I the the fact I don't really remember his son that much from the story probably speaks to what you're trying to say there because certainly he's he seems to play a much bigger role in this. Um I think like he he goes on his little jolly to Sparta as well, doesn't he? Try and news about his dad. He does, speaks to Menelaus there, um, and then obviously at the end he's the one who ends up spoiler already um ascending the throne, which is definitely different from from the the original poem. Um so no, I I I was quite happy with the mate fleshing that part out quite a lot more and that the relationship between him and his mum, and the you know, the the sort of being uh sort of captive in their own home and all the suitors that were there and and the plot to kill him and um Antinous Yes that yeah, yeah, or Antinius, is it Antinius Antinius? There we go. That's more Greek Arpatz, Arpatz, as we call him. Robert Pattinson, he plays a very good asshole, doesn't he? He's an excellent baddie, in this really has to be said, really, yeah, definitely enjoyed his his performance a lot for sure. Yeah, so but uh no, that was that was something I I think was a good shout, was fleshing out the son's character, and and yeah, he was certainly more of a heroic figure than than I was expecting, so right. It's a pleasant surprise. Very good. So in I in terms of other ways that it deviated from the original work, yeah. What what what were your feelings on certain aspects of it? Well uh the biggest thing for me was uh the depiction of Odysseus himself. Like the obviously I haven't read the original original, you know, I've read the the translations of it, but it's it's always seemed to me, and this is probably coloured a bit by the the Troy movie from you know 20 years ago, which I I did rewatch again recently as well. But but certainly for me, I always felt like Odysseus was super proud of his achievements at Troy. You know, it was his idea to come up with the the horse, and then he's proper involved in the sacking of Troy, and and he boasts about it constantly in the Odyssey about what he's a hero of Troy and what great deeds he's done and all this kind of stuff, and and it's his obviously it's his hubris that ends up being his undoing a lot of the time. Whereas um you know Matt Damon's depiction was a far more um I don't know, like a post-traumatic stress disorder approach to it. Very much so. Um which which still worked but wasn't the depiction of Odysseus I was expecting. Um I mean you know we still did see the the kind of um uh you know displays of hubris from the character. But the the other side of it as well for Odysseus is he's he's they always talk about his cunning. He's meant to be in the smartest general um in in the in Agamemnon's Armney. Navigate for shit though, yeah. And it's I didn't see a lot of intelligence going on in a lot of what what he did um in the movie. But um so I've Odysseus character, huge amount of bravery, brave, yeah. Yeah, but yeah, it was it was definitely more of a world weary, you know, even you know, even when they did the flashbacks of the sacking of Troy, he didn't you didn't really see him killing too many people, he was sort of just in horror of what was going on around him, and that's that's not how I I pictured Odysseus. So that that was I guess different. I mean I'm amazed at quite how disciplined the Greek armies or navies or whatever part of the military are. Yeah. Because I don't know what it's funny. If I spent 10 years living on the same bloody beach, I might lose a bit of faith in the people leading me. Yeah. Um but they seem to they seem to be like, oh yeah, okay, fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well there was it was quite good. Do you begin the annual leave at some point, or what? Or do we get some time off? Like, yeah, when you're dead. They they were there so long though that eventually some of their sons turned up and took over from the dads. Yeah. Like Killy's children that his sons turned up and then took over where his dad left off. Yeah, it's not like the movie Troy, it makes his Troy makes it feel like they turn up a long weekend or something. Have a barbecue, maybe have a little bit of a festival type thing over the weekend, yeah, and then crack on. Jobs done, yeah. Jobs are good. And I mean, I do I do really like that Troy film, but it's yeah, in terms this film did a much better job of of showing the passage of time and uh you know the that 10-year voyage to get home is uh I mean that's it's ridiculous, really, isn't it? I mean the easy jet flights don't take that long, do they? No, not at all. Not at all. But it's uh I it's interesting what you say about the uh the differing view of Odysseus within this compared to the poem, because um I have seen it said, I've seen it said elsewhere, and I've kind of I I think it's it's kind of a more of a modern take, isn't it? I think I think I think if you if if you presented Odysseus as someone who was really proud of his war achievements and that kind of thing, it might not be seen by modern modern audiences as particularly heroic behaviour. That's true, you know, we like you know it's it's not that we're sensitive or delicate to it, but you know, war is war is not what makes one great. No. As a wise alien once said, as a wise puppet once told us, yeah, for sure. No, I think that's a good shout, and there's there's you know, on that theme, there's quite there's other modernisations, I think, as well in there. Um I mean it's uh I felt it quite jarring at first to hear everyone talking in in a modern American accent. Interesting you mentioned that. Yeah, it is. I was gonna say something similar. I don't I don't it's interesting. I I didn't find it particularly jarring, but I do I completely get why they had they maintained or made sure everyone had a consistent accent. Yeah. Um, because I think we've spoken about this in the past with in relation to I think it was Clash of the Titans, wasn't it? Where you've got kind of some people with very well spoken English accents, and then suddenly someone comes out with this broad Australian accent, and you're like you you you don't sound like you're from the same place, yeah. Whereas in this it's sort of like everyone sounds like they're from the same place, and whether it's whether it's right that they use that particular accent, I think the drop of insisting that everyone uses the same accent was was fine. Yeah, no, I'd I I agree. I think it it does put everything on a level playing field. It's it's just odd when we're so conditioned to hear Americans putting on British accents to denote antiquity and and you know ancient times, whereas in this had so many fine British actors in it who were then also put who were putting on an American accent instead. I mean it's it's the kind of thing that just sort of melted away and and you know when the spectacle took over. But I think from the very beginning when you had the the guy I can't remember his name, but he he's uh the bard and he's telling the Travis Scott. Yes, that's it. Yeah, I mean that's it. He's not much of a singer though, is he? It's sort of you know, this is meant to be a song of of heroic deeds and it's poetry, I would say. It just goes, a man, a trick. Yes, a plan. Is that are those words from the original poem? I don't know. Probably very well to remember them, given you have you seen it in the trailer or something. Well, no, that's that's uh that's from the film. I remember that from the film. No, I know that's my point. You've only seen it once though. Like you've done very well to remember that. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Well, see it's stuck with me. That's why I'm mentioning it. Credit where it is due, credit where it's due. Oh well. Um okay, right, very good. Very good. Yeah. Um anything else in terms of straying away from the original text that you raised your eyebrows at? I mean, I was always expecting it to be a condensed version because you know, in in the in the poem he stops or they stop at about six, seven, eight, nine, ten different places. So I kind of expected they would pick and choose the the highlights of those, I guess. Yep. Um, but the the the problem with that though is that it felt a little like multiple times all that happened was they dock somewhere, go slightly inland, find something scary. Run back to the ships, off they go again. And that that same thing happened like four or five times. It was quite repetitive, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. And and you know, the the poem obviously deals in in repetition quite a lot. That's how they would remember before it was written down. That's how they remember what happened. So it's I guess the sort of rhythm of it is familiar to people who've studied the poem. But in terms of a film, it's a bit like ad infinitum, like we're just seeing the same set piece over and over again, one time is giants, one time's more Jeopardy. More Jeopardy. Exactly. It would have been nice to have seen them go beyond like 100 metres up the beach, you know, into but I don't know is that you know part of the theme when I was was there, we're just kind of going along raiding and everything. But yeah, so that that as well kind of stuck out as a not really a plotting issue, but it's it's I guess it's a symptom of having to condense a very long poem into but I think I think it did well with the pacing of it. I think it it didn't linger too long on anything or or rush maybe to pulse if it felt a bit rushed, but I don't think I don't think it didn't linger on any one thing for too long. No, no, you're right. It was uh it was kind of I mean they fit a lot in there, they did fit. They do fit a lot in there. Well, while we're on that um lingering on anything for too long, what the bit I was talking about previously uh earlier when I mentioned about the misinterpretation of it, yeah, is when they are with Cyclops in his cave.

unknown 23:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

And I got is it just me? Am I the only person who feels sorry for Cyclops? Oh, I felt well off. What's he done? What's he done? He just lived his life, he's quite happy, he's alright. That's shocking, yeah. Really terrible treatment. Growing his cheese and his sheep and exactly, he's he's keeping his flock happy. He's not bothering anyone, is he? All he wants to do is just be happy in his case. Exist. He's fine. But anyway, when they get stuck in there, and then they they make their first attempt at escaping, yeah, and then they get out and then Odysseus runs back in. Yes. Now, the first time I saw that, I was like, oh, that seemed a bit odd. Yeah, you're right. That did now I think that was confusing. Oh, so I kept a keen eye the second time I saw it, keen eye out, and the reason he goes, and this is the weird thing. Like I said, I'm I it's it's it's I think in the in the course of the film it's a really important moment that tells us what sort of leader Odysseus is. Right. And yet everyone I went to watch it with completely missed it. Yeah, I think I did now actually. Because half his men are still in the cave and he goes back for 'em. Ah, okay. He goes back to be with them and make sure they get and help them get out. Yeah. And it's a it's as I say, it's an important moment for seeing what sort of leader he is. Yeah. Uh, and yet it doesn't see it seems to be missed by so many people. Literally, the the set the evening one I went to when I went to watch it in full IMAX, my mate who was sitting next to him literally f threw his hands in the air. It's like, what the fuck are you doing? I think I felt that at a time, like you're you're out, like what the hell? Why? But there that's because it's because half his men are still inside. Yeah, I know that makes sense, I guess, but you're right, it's not it's not very well depicted, that is it. That that could have been a bit clearer. Exactly. I think for sure. But that was yeah, that was that was that moment. Yeah, it was interesting though, that it was like, God, what what a I bet they were thinking like this is a really key moment. People are gonna see who Odysseus is in this moment, and everyone's missed it. But it was almost like he saw something outside the cave that was even scarier, so he ran back inside again. He's like, oh, get out of here. Yeah, yeah. Look at you exactly, yeah. No, you're you're spot on pointing that out, actually. But the the final thing I'll say obviously, the big difference is the lack of gods and super and well, supernatural, obviously, supernatural stuff, but the lack of intervention of or obvious intervention of the deities is is clearly a big difference from the poem because obviously they they're interfering all the time in in that, and you know, obviously the only god we actually see is Athena. Do we though? Well, is it Athena? And this is this is by the way, if you listen to this point and you haven't been particularly concerned about plot spoilers, this is the biggie, I would say. Yeah, I would say. So, uh you're talking about obviously Zendia's character. Yep. Yep. So I would say that I think that's open to interpretation. It is for sure. Because is it Athena or is it his conscience? Is it more of his PTSD from Yeah, is it his conscience playing tricks on him? I think there's a definite shout for that because um he sees the he sees the Zendia character getting her her head chopped off in the sacking of Troy, guessing she's like a priestess of Athena or something like that. She's got why she's credited as Athena. Oh, okay. She's credited as Athena, but I don't know whether that's just in his head. Still, I think it's open to interpretation. Oh, for sure it is, yeah. Because it seems odd, why would you put one god in there, not the lo you know the all the others that are mentioned? Um but so yeah, that is interesting. But yeah, Calypso is fairly goddess looking like. Well, you're not kidding, yeah. I mean, um, you know, nothing wrong with Van Hathaway, but given the chance, I'm staying on a private island with Charlie's Thuron who brings me food and produces flowers and exactly. Yeah, he was getting me a mobile. I mean, I I didn't get I didn't quite get his eagerness to leave, quite frankly. Yeah, well, I mean, seven years, he he gave it a good shout, didn't he? He just rocks back up. Like, oh well, you know, what have I been doing? Well, I've been having a seven-year affair on a deserted island. It's like, wow, it took you so long to get back. I mean, I technically could have got back seven years ago, but if I go home, how's this gonna be? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. How much of an effort have you been making to get home? Loads, loads. I've been trying so hard. Oh, I've been really trying hard. She kept bringing me fish and lotus flowers and I just and wearing very few clothes, and I couldn't say I couldn't work it out. Oh, um I'm never leaving that island. Um I'm staying with Calypso every day. I'll be honest, as as lovely as Shelley Stronnie's and characters of Calypso is. I mean, it there's not much to do there, is there? What more do you need? Well, I mean, okay. Yeah, fair enough. Fish? Fair enough. Calypso. Quite, quite. Um what do you think of John Bernthal as uh Menelaus? Who is oh yes. Who is it? I mean, Menelaus is it I found I found myself quite conflicted about Menelaus in this because he's he is a he's quite a horrible human being, really. Um as to be fair, I mean it's it's 3,000 years ago. The vast majority of human beings are quite horrible human beings, then different standards, yeah, very, very different standards. Um but I've I've found his character really engaging. I mean he's a great actor anyway, he's brilliant, very watchable. Yeah, he's very watchable, and his his his uh breadth and depth is he's just he's he can do basically anything, can't he? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, he can. No, I really enjoyed his his character and it's interesting how the decision to s to age them down quite a lot from um the the Troy movie as well, where him and Agamemnon are much older men. Yeah. Um Brian Cox and uh Gleason, yeah. Yeah, but but again, again, I think that's that's more realistic, right? You know, no one's very few people are living to 50, 60 years old. Well, quite yeah, true, yeah. And you know, these were these were kings, but these were kings that used to fight, so they had to be young and fit, or they would just get killed. Yeah. Because they were they were often on the front lines themselves. These weren't guys, you know, hiding in the back at HQ, thousands of miles away. Quite they were getting stuck in, but no, I quite I I liked him. It was um you know, it was a good scene where um Telemachus goes to visit him and the the dialogue, and obviously Helen's there, um, and it was that that line about uh you know, maybe just 500 ships now and shows that half of faces gone. Yeah, it's like it's just it's it's such a day and that's like I guess that speaks to the time really. Um but I don't know. I know it's I know it's a poem, it's it's it's kind of a work of fiction even 3,000 years ago. But of course, like the idea that you would you're like, oh you know what, why did I marry her in the first place? Because she was stunningly beautiful, uh, she's gone off, betrayed me, had an affair. Um I'm going to, objectively speaking, at least, destroy basically going to destroy the thing that I the reason I married her for. Yeah. And but I'm going to keep her still. Um not a terribly wonderful guy, I guess. Fantastic. But but a great character. The other thing to remember as well is you know, Homer wrote this three thousand or you know, recorded it three thousand years ago, but he was he was on his second album, I think. Going to studio, laid it down later in the day. You know, it's it's a poem, you can you can spit bars on it. Um, but he was writing about something that was in itself 1500 or so years old. You know, in it's it's a bit like us writing something about Jesus Christ now and that being the definitive thing, you know, it's he was so far removed from the the the origin origins of the story itself. It's got a first-hand account. No, no, not by a long, long shot. So it's um you know, but uh so obviously is it's uh could have been open to all sorts of interpretation down the years. Absolutely. Just while we're on uh Menelaus and his brother Agamemnon. Yes. What do we think of the visuals with regard to Agamemnon? I mean his the visuals of his armour was just like that that helmet's almost like a Darth Vader and uh Batman had a baby in it then it a Greek baby. I did get excited. That bit the bit where they um opened the gates of Troy and he's just stood there. Or it's like it's not boss, it's not quite the same extent, right, but it's almost it's it's close, actually it's not close, but it's good, uh to the closing scene of Rogue One with Vader, with Vader's with Vader's lightsaber sparking corridor, yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. I got I got a similar excitement from that. Um I hope you're wearing loose-fitting trousers. No, it was uh but it was good. He's so and he the whole thing with Agamemnon, like the the not showing his face and the whole Yeah. Why do you think that was? Uh I thought I don't know, I was I thought there was gonna be some sort of reveal, but then I was like, well, what are they revealing? Because we don't know any of these characters. Like it's just popped up in previous things, but then I just think it was it just maintain it. I think it's what we've said before about masks and it maintains a it maintains an air of mystery. Uh and it just the fact that he had that like you know the Brian Cox character in Troy as brilliant an actor as Brian Cox is he looks like Brian Cox. Yeah. Wearing swords and sandals. Uh true. This guy with his uh gold vertebrae going down the back of his helmet and that shit. Yeah. And like he's clearly like or at least perception and all that sort of stuff. He he looks like he's a good six inches taller than everyone else around him, and just he just oozes that aura which vibes. If you take your helmet off and show your face, 50% 50% of that disappears straight away, doesn't it? Yeah, no, I think you're right. So yeah, totally. No, I they they were great characters though. I just I did enjoy it. Um and I I think that's that was more because they obviously in Troy they both end up dying, those characters, but this was more true to that with their actual fates. Quite, quite okay. Let's use that as a little jumping off point. We'll take a break, and then we'll come back and discuss this more.

unknown 34:29

No one could stand between me and home. Only then the guards.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

I want to talk a little bit about the use of CGI or lack thereof. Yeah, okay. Okay, because one of the things I particularly loved about this, and it's quite common in Christopher Nolan things, is practical effects, yeah, uh stages, like real shit going on around and only using CGI when it's absolutely necessary. Yeah, absolutely, and it adds so much more to it. Oh yes. Um, bear in mind the last film we reviewed, I think, was Masters of the Universe, was it not? Yeah. 99% CGI. Slightly different scenario with that one. Slightly different. Um, but this one, oh my god, just it's so good. Yeah, yeah. It's impossible not to get totally sucked in and when it's that believable. And it's at what special effects should be, because I I'm just believing what I'm seeing. I'm not thinking, oh that's a bit pokey, or yeah, or that that's moved a bit strange. Yeah, because I think even to the point of um so obviously I think the big the big CGI pieces or what there is at least is clearly Cyclops. Like, you know, you can't most of that wasn't CGI, they built a massive puppet. Yeah, they did build a massive puppet. They need even when it's moving, right? They need Oh yeah, there's yeah, yeah. They need certain elements, right? Yeah, yeah, they're fill filled in a few gaps, I guess. But one of my one of my friends who went to see it with like didn't like his eye. No don't like what what's going on with the vertical eye? Why is that no, like you've got one eye, I just assume it'd be oriented the same way around as your current eye is not yeah. It was yeah, I felt very uncomfortable. I mean that whole scene was very uncomfortable. Yes, very uncomfortable. Why do you why do you shoot an arrow at him when he came out? Well, this is something I was gonna say. Kind of. This is a switch up they made because that that scene in the poem, or that section of the poem, stanza, or whatever you want to call it, shows is meant to show display. I was gonna say stanza actually. I don't know. It was right on the tip of my tongue. It's been I've been waiting since we started recording to say I think you find it's actually a stanza. Oh yes, yes. Uh you carry on. The in yeah, so in the poem, he uses his cunning because he they they poke out his eye like they do in the film, yeah, and he's like, Oh, who the fuck's done that? And and Odysseus says that his name is no one or nobody. Um so the Cyclops calls out to his other Cyclops mates, they're like, What's wrong? And he goes, Oh, nobody is attacking me. And they're like is this the punny joke? Yeah. So I've I've seen I've seen someone asking Christopher Nolan about this. Yeah. So he just felt he couldn't work it in. Yeah, uh basically, it was a it was a it was uh John Stewart on Dave Show. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. And John John Stewart said to him, There's a joke you put in, and Christopher Nolan just kind of goes to him like, You're a comedian, right? Yeah, he's like, Yeah. He's like, Do you use a lot of puns in your jokes? Yeah, don't really don't really work, do they? No. He's like, no. He said, Whereas we love a pun. Oh, I love it. Oh well we're we're professionals, you know. But that's yeah, because we're terrible comedians, I guess. Millions of people watching us on television every night. Um so no, he's he no, he he he said they they tried to work that in, but yeah. Oh, you it wouldn't have worked, it definitely wouldn't have worked, but that's but then right at the end, as they're sailing away, and you think, oh, he's got away with it, he turns around and shouts to the Cyclops, ha ha, gutted. Actually, my name's not nobody, it's Odysseus, son of whatever his dad's name was. And then Cyclops goes, Ah, and he goes, He goes, Daddy Poseidon cursed Odysseus. So it's it's again, it's part of his his hubris and overconfidence is his undoing. So they I guess they by firing that last arrow, that was his act of hubris or overconfidence. It's like trying to because that sealed the fate, didn't it? He couldn't go away without giving them a fuck you. Yeah, basically it's that. It's it's another way of it. It doesn't really cost another couple of his guys their lives. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and the rest of them now believe that Poseidon has cursed them. Yeah, exactly. I mean their their superstitions are fantastic. Well, they are, but in you know, again, Poseidon literally does smash their boat in half in in the poem because of it, but yeah, in in this you're just made to think, oh, it's a coincidence that it's a bad storm or the winds are not where it should be, or you know, and that's you know that's it's a much more grounded interpretation, isn't it? You know, you can believe in coincidence, or you can believe in the divine, or you know, it's up to you. Absolutely. Well, they had the um they got cursed by the sun god as well, didn't they? Because they ate the meat. Apollo, yes, they ate his his sacred herd. His sacred herd. And it's like we'd we'll just do it in secret, because gods gods can't see damn holes. They can't see at night in if we dig in a little bit. Yeah, I love it. I did enjoy that scene where Odysseus is like it just sneaks up on him. Doing it quietly? Did you think Apollo wouldn't hear you? Yeah. Like, yes. Yeah. Oh, Apollo, talking of Apollo. Do you watch Gladiators by the way? Yes. Apollo, my daughter met Apollo yesterday. Nice. Met him in town. I mean, I live in Sheffield for anyone who doesn't know, and they're currently I think they're they're the base, there's basically a month every year where they record and do all their stuff. Yeah, because it's all filmed in Sheffield. Can't swing a cat without here in a gladiator at the moment in Sheffield. So saw Nitro as well the other day, Harry Harry Akin Zariti. Cool. Driving down the road and just saw this absolute unit of a human being walking. He's not, he's not, he's not, he's not huge, but he's only like he's because he's not tall, but he's but his arms, literally, his arms are the size of my head. I was like, yeah, but he's massive. I was like, oh, he's him. Yeah, yeah. Oh, how cool. Anyway, Greek gods, Athena. I haven't seen Athena yet. If I see Athena, I'll let her know. So hey, you could be in so there's Apollo, Athena. I don't know if there's any others that are named after Greek wolves. Wolf, shadow. Actually, I don't know. There's I think there was a few, wasn't there? Cobra, Cobra, Greek god. No, jet, jet and lightning. Okay. Yeah, why not? I think there's more. I think there are maybe there are more. I'd think back to the 90s one, maybe, or the American one. Maybe. Anyway, we digress. We're not here to talk about gladiators a little bit. So talk about uh other things. Um carry on. We haven't spoken much about the um spoken a lot about Odysseus, we've spoken a bit about Agamemnon and the like. Um what do we think of Penelope? Penelope and Hathaway. She's very, very good. Very good. Um, hasn't she? I know she lives. I know she lives in a palace and she's got servants and shit. Yeah. But she's she's basically a prisoner, isn't she? Pretty much. Yeah. I mean it's I again they kind of modernise their character a bit because there's you know, in this she kind of opines a bit about, well, why can't I be on the throne? You know, I've I've I've I've been running this place for 20 years, I've got all that spirit. And then she has a little chat, she has a little chat with uh her son, doesn't she? Yeah. And I thought that was that was a good shout. That's of you know, in the book she's just this doting, you know, sort of widow, not you know, in limbo. Well, at the point the point at which it was written, I wouldn't even have been considered that a woman could do exactly, which is yeah, which is ridiculous as well. It makes it sort of that that thought of that time period makes it even more ridiculous by the fact of how many female gods they've got. Yeah, exactly. They've got loads of female gods who are all powerful, yeah, but an actual woman, oh my god, you can't not don't you dare, don't you dare get ideas above your station. But but they are all uh you know effectively answerable to Zeus at the end of the day. So I guess they're eventually they have to report to a man. The pa the patriarchy is still ink and charge, yeah, yeah. Um so that was, I guess, yeah, it probably was a natural progression for her character, but uh no, I I really enjoyed her portrayal and thought she she played it really well. Um, you know, plenty of of emotion and uh and a weight and gravitas to the role, and it you know, when when she her and Odysseus finally are reunited, as yeah, there's a lot of good face acting going on and all that. Oh, I loved it. I loved I you know what I loved that final scene, or those that that final act really of uh of all that stuff and the challenge and the I thought there were it there were bits uh saying earlier about the pacing, so I did feel like that I I don't want to say it was rushed, I don't think it was rushed. Rushed is rushed is too strong a word, yeah. But literally, like he almost it almost feels like he turns up in his and I I loved his line. I love the line about uh you get the clearest view of a man from below. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, that was good. Um but he kind of it felt a bit like he kind of turned up and then she went, Yeah, right, let's set a challenge. Yeah, there was that was because she's I she's not I don't I didn't feel like she was meant to have figured out who he was yet, but maybe she had an inkling and she's like, Well, I'm gonna make him prove it. But you'd have thought anytime. In that 20 years, she could have asked those guys to do that challenge, couldn't she? Not only that, like that challenge of like stringing the bow. Like yeah, I mean, he's not a young man anymore, is he? He's he's is he still as strong as he was? Well, he he dispatches people much younger than him with relative ease. Yeah, and I don't know he's like, I I got a bit frustrated by the whole thing though. I was I was I was worrying about the physics of it. I was like, come on, guys, just stop pulling on it halfway down the bow. It's like that's not gonna help you, is it? You need to you need to get right at the top of it, give it a good yank, you know, proper leverage. Yeah, that's right. But you almost sort of got to bend it the wrong way, it looks like it almost sort of like not the water. I think you well, you gotta warm it up, and yeah. You gotta warm it up. Yeah, yeah, get that, get that wood nice and moist. Exactly, get those fibers warm. Yeah. Um but no, I I I actually I really liked that that third act when he gets home because you you're sort of your instinct is oh getting home is it is the end, that's it. But then he you know that that was the the good bit, I guess, when he met the shade of um Agamemnon in the um not City of the Dead, but Land of the Dead. Yes, and he said, you know, don't don't don't rush in through your front door as yourself, you know, have a bit of caution. Yeah, and that you know he does the disguise as a beggar and uh yeah, no, I I I I really liked it, but don't make the same mistake I did. Yeah, exactly. Christ, that's a jump scare, isn't it? When uh uh clitomestra I'm gonna get a rock the rock beast. Oh no, I was saying when um when Helen's sister uh assassinates Agamemnon. Was it a jump scare? I I I'm trying to think of jump scares because there were a few. I I was a there was a few that were jumpy, like they I know particularly in the IMAX version. I mean they were g I do a little bit of in the IMAX version the impact of everything was so much greater. Oh really? And it was noticeably like the the just uh just the visuals, the sound. At one point the sounds like particularly you know, when in the in the palace and the and you got the sound of like crackling fire. Yeah. And it's just every sound is like going on, and like at one point in the IMAX version, I was literally looking down towards like the right hand corner, just pouring scorn on the people sat in front of me because I assumed one of them was rustling a sweet packet. Oh they were it wasn't at all, it was like the crackling of fire. Yeah, I was like, for fuck's sake, guys, come on, what are you doing? It's like no, that's that's just the sound of the screen. Oh right. I mean, that's that's a good good uh pivot because I I did want to talk about the soundscape because Christ almighty, it's I mean, the the cyclops scene, we were talking about that earlier. Obviously, it's engaging with the the visuals, like we said. His roaring or his scream, the sounds of him, yeah, when he's crying out and oh, it's awful. Um it's Ludwig Gorenson. Yes, I was gonna give a shout. Because I don't know about you, but I just assumed this was gonna be Hans Zimmer. Yeah, you just assumed that, don't you? But it's not John Williams, it's Hans Zimmer. Yeah, Ludwig was well, it's just Hans Zimmer's just what's done, he's done basically everything. He's done Instagram, he did the Batman movies, he's that's right, you know, he's his guy. Uh that's true, yeah. But this, I mean, Ludwig, bravo, sir. Christ almighty, was that something else? I I mean I thought my ears were gonna explode at one point. I don't I mean, and your ears must have been ringing after. I was gonna say, you saw it in standard, right? Like literally, my the anything remotely bassy was rattling my entire boss. Yeah, you must have left with a fucking headache because it was. It felt it felt like almost like that 4DX thing where you seat shakes, it was just shaking because of the bass, because it it was so good. Oh, it was I mean, I I I read a a thing that uh Nolan didn't want to do an orchestral score for this, uh, but but Gorenson apparently he researched and recreated ancient Greek instruments just just for this. I saw that like a two-handed flute, double barrel flute thing, and and you can tell because the sounds I knew I knew it I was absolutely as as great as the visuals were, I think it was the sound that really blew me away with this because it's and it's it's got that unique feel to it, isn't it? So unique, not like anything else I'd ever heard. Absolutely was times when I th thought I was watching a horror film. Yeah, I mean Christ in some in some places it is horror, very horrory. Yeah, Cersei with the the turning them into the pigs, that was fucking I only do you know what as well that I that was something I assumed had been done with like you know when they're they're they're like hoofing down the food and it kind of looks like it's sort of like basically forcing itself in. Yeah, and it's or it's coming out or it's doing it, but it looks like they've basically just got this strain of stuff. Yeah and I assumed that that was a little bit of trickery. Yeah, it wasn't. It was it was just apparently it was just how they shot it, and it's yeah, apparently there was no CGI in that scene at all. It was all prosthetics and tricks of the camera and stuff, like just like reshaping their face. I almost had to look away, I was Samantha Morton. Oh yeah, great. Oh, that was one it was one of the it was it was so disgusting. It was unbelievable. Although I did, I did I'll be I will lie, I I had a bit of fun the second time watching that because I knew it was coming. You were just looking at your mates like I didn't I didn't freak out. I literally had a massive because I'd already seen it. No, I yeah. I mean sorry, yeah, obviously it's Christopher Nolan film. Come on, well yeah, rock hard the whole time. I literally I was sat there with an enormous bucket of popcorn, just just just hoofing it in. Yeah, yeah. Oh no, the woman sat next to me. I could clock her just like give me a side eye. What is wrong with this guy? This is this we're fucking prick doing. Yeah, yeah. Do you not get this? Do you not get what this is about? Yeah, greed. Yeah, I mean that was it was it was at times it was hard to watch. I was you know, and I um took went with my my son, he's 14, and I mean he absolutely loved it. He was he was in disbelief, but I was I don't know. I felt like I was what the hell am I watching it? It was like a David Cronenberg film or something, you know. It was there were there were times when I thought, oh, this is this verging into just a bit gross out disgustingness. It was right on the kind of but it it stayed the right side of it. Stayed the right side of it. Yeah, but the sounds that the whole way through the music and the sounds were uh another level, I have to say it was it was this is delicious.

SPEAKER_00 50:34

Where'd you get all your meat from?

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, it was transcendent, I have to say. So massive, massive uh shout out to Gorenson for what you deal it. And I don't know if this is how true this is to the original work, but I like that way that they basically mutinied on the beach and told him, like, you are you're no longer leading us. Yeah, and I don't think that happens. He really then basically they he gets them back by being the one who saves them. Yeah, um I like I like that twist to it. But actually, that's can we just mention Himesh Patel at this point because I mean he was fantastic, he was really, really good, yes, and he had a massive role in it. Very good number two, yeah. He was, but I don't I don't remember seeing him in like any of the marketing material at all. I just seem very surprised he had such a large role. It's because there's probably just too many people, isn't there? I'm not being funny. You've got if you want to sell it, you've got Matt Damon, you've got Tom Holland, you've got particularly if you want to sell it in the States. If you want to sell it in the States, you've got Zender, you've got uh yeah, like say Anne Hathaway, John Bernthal. If you sell it in the States, John Bernthal's gonna be a big draw. Yeah. Um it's John Leguizarmo and Yeah, John Leguizarmo. John Leguizarmo's brilliant. We need to mention Leguizamo. Yeah. His character. That the scene where we first get introduced to him, where he's choosing dogs. Yeah. Just lobbing them off the clip. Yeah. It shouldn't be funny. It shouldn't be funny, but it is. Because it's funny, it's funny, it's because it's so it's funny because it's absurd. We know that no dogs are actually getting hurt. Yeah, of course. I did see I did see a thing about how they did that, and they said literally the stunt coordinator. Stunt coordinator is literally like you, it's not obvious, clearly not a cliff, it's just a little drop. It's like laying there with a massive bed of pillows, just basically trying to just the white the dogs that do go catches them and then just releases them onto the pillows. But again, another film would have just CGI'd the dogs, they're literally tossing puppies around. No, that's that's brilliant. John, I could in that same piece that I saw John Neguizarmo was like, I'm gonna be the most hated man on the planet after this. Literally, I'm not gonna be able to walk down the street without being known as the guy who throws dogs off cliffs. Oh, that's it. I mean, John Wick could have something to say, wouldn't he? John Wick. For sure. Well, let's let's let let's address the elephant in the room then whilst we're talking about casting, because there was there was obviously a a lot of negative press about the casting of this film prior to one place. I when you say a lot of negative press, there was one particular person with a particularly large platform who Well, I mean you're not on social media as much as I am, but a lot for this very reason. Well, not this is there's lots of reasons, but this is a good reason to not be a good reason to not be. Very good reason. Very good reason. How you can be I assume you're talking about Helena Troy not being whiter than white with blue eyes and blonde hair. Yeah, but equally Elliot Page got a lot of Yeah, yeah. Um well there you go, had such a small part. You know, Cinnon, the first character we see at the beginning of fuck's sake who dies in the first 30 seconds. Who, for those who don't know, hasn't always been Elliot Page. Yeah. Uh transitioned into a couple years ago. Um was actually in Inception. Uh yeah, exactly. Yeah, worked with Ariadne before. Yeah, Ariadne, the character in Inception. Oh, I don't know. Uh sounds like a Greek legend name anyway. Yeah, um I mean it's it there was so much of it, and it was it it's soul destroying, absolutely soul destroying to see the comments from people. Why do people care? I don't get it. I mean, this is a this is a film with monsters and it's a total work of fiction. Giants, yeah, witches. Exactly. Oh my god, how can you how can you be bothered? I mean it just blows my mind, and it's like, oh, you know, it's not uh oh Helen Kruger's really, really Greek looking with her blonde hair and blue eyes and a German a German accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I can one see you're now in the in the Greek ruins. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, did they pick a beautiful actress to pay play the most beautiful woman in the world? Yes, they clearly did. Lupita is a beautiful woman, she's stunning, she's gorgeous. It's not like they can't want you you or me to be Helen or Troy, there'd be something to say about that, I'd imagine. You know, yeah, to be fair, you got you got Americans and Brits doing Greek roles all over the shop, but yeah, the idea that a uh an African woman could do this job. Wow, surely absolutely yeah, she's how could she be Greek? You know, I oh I I suppose and Matt Damon looks Greek, does he? And Tom Holland looks Greek. Matt Damon. Exactly. He is he's he's more I don't know, shameless than uh Odysseus, but so that absolute nonsense. And and anyway, she's in it for all of five minutes, you know. Even if you can't stand that, it's not it's she doesn't play a big role in this. This is the problem, this stuff, and I don't want to linger on it too long because it's serving its purpose that by doing that. It's just true, it's it's it's there to wind people up. Inflammatory, isn't it? Yeah, it's it's a it's an incredibly wealthy and um privileged man who decides, oh you know what, I've woken up on this particular side of the bed today and I'm gonna make an issue of this thing. Yeah, exactly. Because it's my freedom, it's my right, my freedom of speech. The the um the Elliot Page stuff was because the rumour was that um he was playing the character of Achilles, and that I guess, and I thought, oh, I guess that is an interesting casting choice because Elliot Page, whilst obviously he's a man, is not the enormous warrior type I would have expected for someone playing Achilles, but then you watch the film and he doesn't play Achilles, he plays Cinnon and does it very much he dies in the first 30 seconds. That was that was I'll be honest, my initial reaction watching for the first time was like when that character does Cinnon does die, I'm like, but that's a short role for a good actor. Yeah, yeah. He's an incredibly good actor who's who's who's been used very sparingly, and then we obviously find out why later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We it's not the last time we see him. So yeah, just wanted to address that utter ridiculous bile, as if Nolan doesn't know what he's doing. I think he's earned you know our faith in him after churning out. But it's just but it'd be even then, even if even if it wasn't Nolan and even if it was an act it was a it was a new director who hadn't earned their faith in yeah, like fuck off in what? Fuck off, just who cares? Just don't just let people live their lives and let get on with it. And all I want to know is are they a good actor for this? Can they can they do can they perform the role that they needed to perform? Yeah. The rest of it, if you've got any issues with anything else, or there's what are relatively superficial things outside of that, that's your problem, not theirs, mate. Oh, for sure. Yeah. So anyway, I can't sympathise with any man that doesn't think La Pizza is gorgeous anyway. I mean, there's there's those manosphere types uh need to have a very hard look at themselves in the mirror, I would say. No, I think they I think they spend a lot of time looking at themselves in the mirror. Ironically, which is something they do, but without any kind of meaningful experience, do it with any sort of uh any any suggestion or idea that they might be wrong. Yeah, ridiculous. Ridiculous wrong. No way. No, I thought the casting was top-notch. Uh there's so so many good actors in this and and lots of good parts for them to play. Um, so that was that you know, that was an utter and none of them stood out in as much as you know. Sometimes you see a film and someone's so famous, you like I guess you get out a bit with Arnie, like you you don't watch an Arnie movie and you're like, oh that's that's what Arnie movie is. You're just watching Arnie Arnie's not going to be part of an ensemble cast, no, no, maybe what they did a bit of a cam more of a cameo type thing when in the um The Expendables. Yeah, I mean that's that's a stacked cast as well as it's not. Even that, like, so he did a bit of cameo in that, but then like Sly, Sly, like Yeah, despite all the people that are in that film, it's still very clear that Sly's the star. Oh yeah, there's no mistake in that. Whereas in this, like Matt Damon Matt Damon's never on the screen without sharing it with multiple other people, is he? No, no, no, and everyone does such a good job, so it was it was excellently cast, definitely. Definitely nettly. Very good, very good. So, what you got you got any other key points you want to talk about before we wrap this up? I mean, uh you could probably surmise on everything I've just said that that I really really enjoyed this film and I did. Oh I thought I felt bad I did, but it wasn't it wasn't a perfect film. It was it was it it was a flawed masterpiece for me. Okay. Um and there was definitely bits that stopped me from enjoying it as as much as I was hoping I was gonna enjoy it. Particularly anything? I I can't even necessarily put my finger on it, but it's I mean this is kind of a trend as well, and I guess this was really apparent again from watching Troy. But the trend now is with cinema, is everything has to be like a muted colour palette. Like everything is just greys and browns and and I mean to be fair, it's 3,000 years ago, mate. They've not got like they're not gonna have access to synthetic colours. No, but there should be you know turquoise water and yellow skin. Why can't we have skies? Some sandals in a nice aluminous pink, yeah, hot pink sandals. Would that have killed them? No, but this is this is just the the way that films are graded now, which is the in the editing suite when they decide on a a colour palette, yeah. It seems to be the the trend now is is very muted. And when you see even films from 15, 20 years ago, they were far more colourful. And I I do miss that a bit because for me, Greece is colourful. I would have far more sympathy for you if we hadn't just watched Masters of the Universe. That is the brightest film I've ever seen in my life. That was eye bleeding, and that's why that stood out because the muted palette on this one is the fact that it's it's it's grim, isn't it? Everything's grim upon grim. It is grim, but I it it felt like everything took place in the dark, you know, like even the the big fights at the end, as it's got no they've got no artificial light. We've got the sun? Because I know I don't know if you know the sun's not artificial. No, but it's like they were never out there. It was like they were never out there. That's what they want you to think. But you know, when we every time they landed somewhere and that we could explore this great new world, it was no, we're in Circe's little dark huts or it doesn't feel like we're in the woods, does it? No, that's what I'm trying to say. And I guess partly because I mean, yeah, it wasn't part that stuff in the woods was in Scotland, I think. Yeah, exactly. I think very very very little of this was actually filmed in Greece. Oh, for sure. But it it's it would have been nice to have seen a bit more life, yeah, a bit more pop to things. Interesting, a use of colour there. So apparently there was a um it was a conscious use of colour to not have Penelope dressed in anything but bright colours. Ah because the idea is that she is not a widow in mourning because she still believes that he is alive and coming back. Oh, that makes sense, yeah. She's not in black, which would be traditional. Yeah. Um, so I I I kind of I think what I'm trying to say is like I said, the soundscape in this film was unbelievable, can't fault it at all. It was horrifying and beautiful and and majestic. The visuals for me, especially for a Nolan film, I was hoping for a little bit more instead of these little pockets, these little set pieces, like I say, where they land somewhere, go a bit in land, find a monster, go run it back to the ships, and off they go again. And we we just kind of did that a few times. I I I think that, but I give it to be honest, I I I thought about this, but I you can't remember. Like, I I think in terms of the visuals, I think I think it does the normal Nolan thing of getting this sense of scale. I think the sense of scale is is apparent. In fact, there were a couple of times when I actually thought the editing was a little bit too choppy because it it was close and then out and then close again. Yeah. That it like there was a particular moment that that I did find a little bit jarring, which is when it's when um Penelope and Telemelicus are going out onto like the balcony and verandah bit to go and have a chat, and they're nice and close up with we're seeing them, and then suddenly it cuts to a really wide view to give us to show us what we're seeing, which is yeah, establishing the shot. Yeah, establishes the shot, shows us where they are, yeah, and and gives us that sense of scale. But it doesn't matter. But normally you'd start with that shot and then you'd cut to the close-up. It's basically in that instance, it was like close, close, close, out, close again. Yeah, and it was the opposite. There were a couple of moments like that, but I mean it's very, very small, minor stuff. It is stuff you notice. It is stuff you notice. I do, but I do think like it's difficult because obviously, as well. One of the considerations, and it's my personal consideration. I think in terms of they keep turning up in all these places, and like there's no, as you say, I guess there's not really any major adventure in eating in a place, it's literally you turn up and it's there. Something there for 3,000 years ago. You've got to remember, there's like there's probably only like a hundred thousand people on the entire planet. Like you're not bumping into cities or towns very regularly, right? Well, especially when you look on a map and this this enormous voyage, it covers like a tiny little bit of of uh Europe, uh, you know, Mediterranean and Turkey. Um yeah, for sure. I mean, I was thinking if Agamemnon wanted to win the Battle of Troy, he should have recruited some of these cyclopses and giants and all these, you know, they're all nearby. Don't feel like they're easily recruited. No, maybe not, but it's like you know, um, so yeah, there was that, and also I mean it like you say of the choppy editing. Also, I was thinking that in terms of we were getting little flashbacks, or it was cut into Odysseus stuck on the beach with Calypso, and then he would then have a flashback to being at Troy, and it was like flashback back to the present, flash it that felt a little choppy as well. Not saying it had to be told in a linear fashion, but and it made sense that we would see Troy only in flashback because it you wouldn't want to see the Battle of Troy and then the Odyssey beginnings that no, that wouldn't have worked. No. So I I I think the idea was right, but the this kind of the editing execution for me was was a little off at times. Okay. Um so there was a couple of grumbles with it, I have to say. Right. Um so that that's why I'm I'm I'm terming it a flawed masterpiece. So if you were if you I did I guess I t I I I'm gonna get into my really weird thing of how I categorise Nolan films down. Yeah, of course. Tennet Inception Interstellar, they're in a little thing over here. Protected bubble. Batman over there. Right. Uh and then I guess this is I guess in terms of uh Tisms kicking in. Yeah, this is kind of like the in terms of uh but even then this is this is sort of I think this is his first real foray into fantasy. I think you could talk people there will be people who refer to it as history. Let's be clear. Let's let's not not historic. Yeah, it's not historic. Um but it's yeah, I think it's kind of his first foray into that this kind of thing. I mean obviously he did it's it's interesting he's I th he's doing this after doing Oppenheimer, right? Because obviously main character man who creates thing is then not very happy about the thing he's created and isn't happy about the way it's been used and the world that thing creates. Didn't think of that parallel, yeah. This essentially man creates thing, is not very happy about what it goes on to uh the role that his invention goes on to fulfil. Um so yeah, and then it's a bit despairing. That is interesting. Oh yeah, like you say, I mean I mean that's the genius of of Nolan is he can turn his hand to these different genres and yeah and approach them in that in that in a way that only he can. Yeah. And I think that's very special. You just reminded me of the last thing I didn't didn't like about this film. Oh I how many times do we have to hear the term Zeus's law? Zeus's law. I mean how overused was beaten over the head with this little bit, don't we? It was every scene someone had to reference. That's yeah, I get that, but then that's basically the whole premise of the film, isn't it? Yeah, but how done is it's a lot of people. Are we all done? We need reminding every 30 seconds. It's it's a comment on the modern world where we don't pay enough attention to it's basically it's basic the whole film is a huge amount of money and time spent saying ICE. What the fuck are ICE doing? Tell it, yeah. Basically, it's a giant morality tell. And I know it's got to let's treat our neighbours with uh respect, please. And I and I'm totally on board with the message, but I I know I would have liked to think most audiences are smart enough without the reference literally in every scene, you know. And it so I know that's after a while it just got jarring, you know. It's like oh fucking Zeus is you know, it's like it's just copy and pasted throughout the the every page of the bloody Someone turns off a microphone and mentions Zeus's law, they're not getting a meal from me, I'll tell you that. No, they can they can sort of write off. I don't care if they're Zeus in disguise. Yeah, quite you know, they're not uh yeah, and uh the the the payoff with oh the the people from the sea, and it you know, and it's they're saying actually Odysseus and his crew were the people from the sea because they just went from place to place raiding and killing and you know and and and violating Zeus's law. And obviously, like you said, like I know you were getting to the the Trojan horse is the ultimate violation of Zeus's law. Yep. Um so yes, I get it, but uh yeah, it's gonna come me off after a while. It gets mentioned in almost every scene, didn't it? Exactly. You know, there's there's Chekhov's gun and there's Chekhov's fucking machine gun, and this was just like brrrrrr, just spraying that term for us all over the place. I wouldn't have said this, I wouldn't have said Zeus's law was the Chekhov's gun. I would have said the probably the challenge. I think the challenge is Chekhov's gun. Okay. Well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. There might be multiple actually Chekhov's guns, but he's got a lot of guns, it's a big armor. He's a bit of a but it's just it was like that, they're clearly referencing this all the time because it's gonna have a payoff later. And it was like, but you know, use it a bit more sparingly. Absolutely. That that's gonna feel like the ultimate petty criticism, but I can't help but be annoyed by these things. That's what we are here for. We've got to tell the people what's annoying about this video. You should you should be frustrated by this as well. You should actually say we, I'm not, I'm not frustrated by that at all. No, you were fine. It's just me. It's fine. I've I'd be honest, I did the it it didn't it didn't bother me, but after a while I was like, I think we get this, guys. Yeah, I think that's how you know the story is no, I noticed it. I noticed it, but it didn't bother me. It didn't bother you. You're not as petty as I. No, no, no, we we knew that though. Sadly not. We knew that, but that aside, clearly a a very, very high quality movie. So, forgetting my ridiculous categorisation of his movies, do why do you think this ranks amongst Christopher Nolan films? I mean it's it's Streets Ahead of Tenet for sure. Oh, Streets Ahead. Yeah, Streets Ahead of Tenet, definitely. Um, I still haven't seen Oppenheimer, so I can't quite comment on that. Um I don't really count on his early work, like Mementos, maybe going back a bit, the prestige, they feel like some small films. So different, so different. I think I would say in terms of epic grand scale things, you basically Batman begins onwards. Yeah, you're right, yeah. I mean I'd say the the middle Batman film is probably a overall a better movie experience for me. Um so I'd I'd give um yeah uh Dark The Dark Knight the edge over this one, just about. I think it it what's interesting is I think it's in terms of usual uh and that again like using Oppenheimer as well in this category, sort of compared to the things we've been used to, or we kind of we kind of basically that sort of the the 2010s, I would say, in terms of that decade, or basically from through Inception, then into Interstellar, then into Tenet, kind of conditioned into thinking of Christopher Nallen films a certain way, uh where there's a huge amount of mystery and a huge amount of interpretation for the viewer, which there is still with this, I think. I think there's still he he always I think he's fantastic at telling amazing stories, but also leaving enough room for you to basically decide what you think is happening. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um but obviously with this it's slightly different because uh it is a very well told story, and like even if you even if you haven't uh read the read your original work or a translation of the original work, like a lot of the sort of uh morals of the story are will be common to people because you know things get told. Yeah, things get used. That's it, and a lot a lot of this is filtered into common parlance or being you're more you're probably more likely to have seen a a spoof of of this than than read the original text, aren't you? Like a Simpsons parody or something like that. Yeah, exactly. So he's not he's not having to do anything with you know time running backwards or no, that's true. Or a piece of uh science that he then takes sort of a couple of steps away from to make science fiction or anything like that. So um I think that that's that's you know, you get that and almost almost to the point where as much as obviously there's the fantasy element of it, which is the the cyclopses and the giants and the the like in kind of typical Nolan fashion, the bits that are grounded in reality are very grounded in reality, yeah. Like if it's if it's if it's a real thing, he makes it a real thing. Like the idea that you know it would take that long to so even if you went well because you they mentioned about kind of along the known trade routes, don't they? I think yeah, it's Agamemnon Agamemnon, and he doesn't want to follow him, but like the idea that that journey would still take a long time, um, and he's taking that long. Like, I know these should have been two weeks apparently if he'd have just sailed straight there. Yeah, oh yeah. Was that was that uh recall? Yeah, yeah, good one. Now, in terms of Nolan's high concept stuff, um I definitely think this was a better film than Interstellar, um, but probably not as good as Inception. That's that's where I and I mean that the this film must have been good because I kind of want to see it again straight away, especially in IMAX, but I also don't because it was so horrifying and just freaky. It is horrifying, it was the word, and it was a real journey, so in that respect, it was a total success. It was a it was an absolute odyssey for us to watch it. So, you know, in in purely uh that uh literal sense, it it was a success for sure. Yeah, I think I think for me that's the that's the true success of the film, and it's the fact that for me you get the sense of scale, you get the set for me, you get the sense of time passing, uh, and how how difficult that is, and you know, it's yeah, it's huge. I mean, like the fact that even like uh Telemachus, the the fact that he's never even met his dad, yeah, like and he's just like well not that he's can remember at least. Um interesting, yeah. It'd be fun if he was like he never met his dad, but he's twenty one and a half years old or something like that. It's like hang on, let's do the math. The dates don't quite work out. I've been gone for 21 years and you are 19? I never met my dad, he died a year before I was born. Yeah. Where do you get blue eyes from? Uh nowhere. So anyway, I yeah, I I I take all your comments on it. I think it was brilliant. I do think uh interestingly, I I just my view, I've I put Interstellar above everything else. But um this is as I to say, this is so different. It'd be interesting seeing this on the small screen and how that hits. You mean your 60-inch TV. Well I think I've got 55 actually. Oh like you. But either way, but you know what I mean. Like I don't think is it gonna translate? I think watching it in the home on a television will lose something. So do you s did you get did you gain a lot from IMAX, would you say? I don't know if it gained a lot, but it was definitely a noticeably different experience. Okay. The sound put it to that, the sound was the biggest thing. Right. It was just literally blowing me back in my seat when it was like it was when it really got going. Um and yeah, and some certainly some of the actions, I mean the the as you say, the action scenes with uh Cyclops. Yeah, um what were the names of the giants again? Oh, I don't remember. Uh whatever Cyclops has a name as well. Yeah, he has an actual name, I can't remember what it is. Steve. Steve the Cyclops.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:06

Hello, I'm Steve the Cyclops. Just gonna bite your head off. Is that alright? Good. Thank you. Don't worry, I'll spit I'll spit a helmet back out so you can use it again.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:15

Yeah, he doesn't eat metal, he's not a monster.

unknown 1:17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:19

Let me think I am. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so yeah, I yeah, I did I I didn't I do you know what? I if I'm being really critical, I didn't I the stuff with the giants I didn't really enjoy. No, it was a bit of nothing almost, wasn't it? It was just another set piece. It was a bit like it was uh although I did say I didn't I the whole thing I wasn't that bothered about, but like the I did like the moment they were like, Oh, it's just a child. Yeah. And like it's clear this child's like six foot six. Yeah. And then one of them goes, hang on a minute, if that's a child. What are the parents gonna be like? Bear in mind, they've just they've just come from uh Cyclops' island. Yeah, they're gonna be like they do growing big around there, don't they? You'd be conditioned to think, hmm. Caution, caution needed. I think was it the it was the but it was it was interesting coming away from I we'll wrap this up in a minute, but like the it was interesting coming up when they were coming away from the giants, yeah. That's the first point at which we kind of see like despair. They're losing the like they're like huddled, huddled down on the deck, just thinking, just looking around at each like, oh my god. Yeah, they still sort of stop being an army, haven't they? And they're just a bunch of scared blokes. Right, we were we were just on a journey home. Like we thought we because I can you can imagine when they're leaving the beach of Detroit, they must be thinking, Thank fuck for that. Yeah, I can't believe we survived that 10 years. I'll be chilly, I'll be laying in bed with my wife, uh whatever she's if she hasn't left me or died, like but and you just think, oh wonderful, and then like literally three years later, running away running away from giants. Yeah, didn't quite go to plan. No, so you can you can understand how the despair starts to kick in, yeah, for sure. Um, but yeah. So anyway, I yeah, I love I short answers. I loved it, but I would I would be interested in terms of the fullness of time and how it works. Because I can still I can still watch Inception and Instellada Interstellar today and the Batman movies and basically all the other stuff, yeah. And it works brilliantly, even on even on a smaller screen. Um whether this will translate as well, I don't know. Is it too epic for TV? Too epic for TV. Uh maybe, but I don't think we're gonna feel it. Don't be wrong, it's still a cracking piece and it will work, it will work to an extent. But it's it's I mean it it's maybe unfair to think to to have any expectation that it may live up to cinematic viewing. Yeah, but if you're listening and you don't go to the cinema and you wait for things to come on television, this is the reason you should go to the cinema. Oh, for sure. Because it's so good. This is such a cinema film, 100%. Masters of the Universe is on prime now, by the way. If you were, you know, we were talking about that last time. Oh, desperate for their second peering. No chance. No, I'm alright, I'm alright. I Master of the Universe, you guys, you did some entertaining work. I enjoyed my cinema visit, but I don't think I'm gonna be adding too much to my life by going back for a second watch, certainly not this quickly. No double dipping, no, it's it's not one C twice in the same day, is it? No, I've I mean, yeah, if I'd done that if I'd done that for Master of the Universe, I'd be like, um Hutch, I'm not sure we need to speak much anymore. Is that alright? I'm seriously starting to question your judgment. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna start phasing you out of my life. Quite so okay, right. Anything majors to say before we leave? Um no, I don't think so. Oh well I just really quickly I did also see um uh not proclamation day,'s it called uh Declaration. Declaration Day, yes. Uh the week before I saw this one. Uh don't go and see that one. Uh don't don't watch it on TV.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

Warning me off it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

If it's on TV, don't bother. That is that is a that is a stinker. Well, not even just a little bit. There's so little to gain from that. Well, I have heard similar things from other people. Actually, the person I went with, one of the people I went to see The Odyssey with on Saturday afternoon viewing, he saw that and he mentioned Yeah. Wasn't one you desperately want to rush out and watch. My and my son earlier uh said to me, Who's who do you think's the better director, Spielberg or Nolan? And I was like, looking at the whole body of work, that's a tough decision. Based on their both of their most recent works, no comparison. I think no comparison. I think don't be wrong, they're they're just different, they're just so different. Like they're not there's no there's no way Nolan's making a Indiana Jones or a no, maybe not, or a Jurassic Park, like they're just they're just they're too different to to do it. Like he he is uh Spielberg's more leans while he makes brilliant movies and makes like don't get me wrong, he makes Indas list for God's sake, like he he he makes seriously hard-hitting films, yeah, but he can also play the entertainment stuff. He could make it well, maybe we've answered the question. Maybe that maybe Spielberg's shown he's got a broader repertoire, maybe possibly, yeah. But based, like I said, based on their most recent films, uh one is significantly ahead of the other. If if you do if you do end up seeing Disclosure Day, it's a film that entirely wouldn't exist if they remembered that the internet was a thing. That's all I'm gonna say on that. Okay, the entire story doesn't need to happen if you remember that the internet exists. Is this like if they did did Home Alone again today? Yeah, that kind of thing. Like some someone's contacting someone somewhere. Yeah, a phone's getting rung somewhere, something's happening. I I did hear that they would they were good they were considering remaking home alone, but then they were like, How on earth would we make that work? Like yeah, it just wouldn't happen, would it? There's absolutely no way that that kid's in home alone and no one can get in contact with him for for three or four days. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and she's and it's not until she's literally on mid-flight before realizing. Oh, we'll have to rush to the payphones. No, just phone mid-flight. Yeah, anything send a neighbor around somebody. Oh, it'll be a piece of cake, wouldn't it? A text, an email, yeah. Anyway, so we do. Let's wrap it up. Uh I don't know what we're doing next, but we'll get to something. We'll figure it out. Thank you very much, everyone for listening. Stefan, thank you very much for joining and being here as always. I don't know what I'm that sentence started and I didn't really know where it was going. So I'm just uh I'm just at home, so it's it's no bother. Lovely. You're very welcome. It's always a pleasure, and thanks everyone for listening. Good night.