Euphoric Evolution

Transforming Trauma into Triumph with Ava Johanna

• Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser

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In this engaging conversation, Makhosi and Ava Johanna explore the transformative journey of entrepreneurship, emphasizing the importance of community, vulnerability, and self-discovery. Ava shares her personal experiences of overcoming financial trauma and the evolution of her business, the Academy of Breath. They discuss the integration of ancient practices into modern wellness, the challenges of cultural sensitivity, and the significance of creating safe spaces for connection and growth. The dialogue highlights the need for leaders to embrace vulnerability and the power of community in personal development, while also looking ahead to future aspirations and projects.


Takeaways

  • Entrepreneurship often stems from a desire to fill personal voids.
  • Running away from past circumstances can lead to burnout.
  • Finding a mentor can help shift from a mindset of lack to abundance.
  • Vulnerability is key to creating strong community connections.
  • Community is essential for personal and professional growth.
  • Celebration within community fosters a sense of belonging.
  • Imposter syndrome can indicate you're in the right room for growth.
  • Integrating ancient wisdom requires sensitivity and respect.
  • Creating safe spaces allows for deeper connections and healing.
  • Future aspirations should focus on serving and transforming lives.

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Makhosi (00:01.957)
my gosh, I'm so excited to dive into today's episode with Ava. We met, it's been a little over a year, year and a half now, we were both speakers at the Rich Queen event. And the two of us, I felt like just really hit it off. And I thought that it would be really interesting to dive into having a conversation around

disrupting industries and really some of the consciousness, some of the evolution that's had to happen in order for you to succeed. So welcome Ava, I'm so happy to have you here.

Ava Johanna (00:45.218)
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this conversation. I feel like it's been a long time coming and it's crazy to think that it was almost a year and a half ago or about that since we first met.

Makhosi (00:55.387)
I know it's been a wild year and a half. It feels like just yesterday, but it also feels like a lifetime ago, literally at the same time. But I want to dive right in and I don't want to go all into like, what is your story about this, that and the other? I want to get into the meat of like who you are. What was the inspiration for your entrepreneurial journey?

Ava Johanna (01:22.766)
Well, I feel like this kind of goes back to my story and where I began because I know that you would agree with this. So much of entrepreneurship, I think in the beginning, stems from this deep desire to fill the voids and the gaps that at some point in your own journey you didn't have. And for me, entrepreneurship, kind of fell into my...

late teens into mid-20s, I was constantly running away from my experience as a teenager. I had a lot of financial trauma in my years between like 15 to 18 with my mom and my little sister. And I remember getting evicted from our tiny one-bedroom apartment when I was 16 years old.

and my mom having to go to the food bank every single week to pick up groceries for us. One morning we walked out to her car and she had a boot on her car tire because her car was getting repossessed. And in those angsty teenage years, I had a lot of anger. And I remember that anger created this moment for me where I made a vow to myself that I would never be in that position again and that I would never put my family in that position again either. And so,

My entrepreneurial journey really stemmed from this rebellion around my circumstances. But ultimately, where it originated was being in my digital marketing job, which I embellished the hell out of my resume to get and realizing that I was gaining all of these really valuable skills, but I was applying it to things that I just had no passion around. And at that same time,

I was experiencing a lot of burnout, a lot of hormonal issues, migraines every other week. I found yoga, I found the wellness space and I was really passionate about it and realized that there was this whole community of individuals online that were not only creating community around yoga and wellness, which was so different than the partying and the drugs and the raving that I was exposed to in my everyday life.

Ava Johanna (03:35.062)
it just opened up my eyes to see, there's actually a completely alternate way to living than what I can see in my current circumstances. And there are people that are not only passionate about what they do and are able to live wellness as their everyday life, but they're actually making an impact from it and making an income from it. And so why don't I just take these skills that I have and start applying them to the things that I really love? And so that's definitely a high level version, but it...

It really was the chip on my shoulder that ultimately propelled me forward into finding, I would say, the path Lesser Traveled in terms of my career and entrepreneurship as a whole.

Makhosi (04:17.701)
Hmm. It's so interesting. One of the common themes that I see happen a lot with high achieving leaders is so many of us do come from some sort of trauma as being the catalyst for our growth or for us taking the road less traveled when maybe we were following like the standard formula for success. And then we realize like, no, actually F this.

I want something different. And what I notice is that it's almost like for a period of time in your business, you are running from something, running from poverty, running from lack of community, running from the corporate sphere, right? And then there's a shift that happens where

You kind of have gotten far enough away from what you were running from, right? Where, you know, maybe you're not on the edge of, you know, being evicted from your apartment anymore. And then you maybe subconsciously realize, I don't have to run away from something anymore. Have you noticed that and have you made like, what was that transition like to shift more into running towards something or?

being pulled by something rather than running away from what you don't want.

Ava Johanna (05:53.652)
my God, so many times, especially in the last, I would say five years. For me, one of the biggest aha moments was that the running away from was still stemming from that place of wounding where things actually weren't getting that much better. There wasn't the inspiration to

run towards something that felt really like divinely guided. And because of that, I deeply believe that there was a lot more forcing rather than flowing. And so I remember the end of 2019, this was three years into my business, just feeling so defeated. I was living in LA. It's so funny because I'm in Manhattan Beach right now. And this is definitely a part of my like breaking point. I was living in LA teaching at

Studio out here alo yoga band here driving around constantly. I was the ironic pissed-off meditation teacher because I was always sitting in traffic almost always late to my classes and I had reached my breaking point where I was still barely paying my bills. I felt like I was doing all of the things and I realized that so much of the

patterning and the behaviors that were still this running away from something were actually keeping me capped where I wasn't able to actually break out of the old identity and the old stories and so that was one of the first moments and ultimately what it took was being able to find a mentor very very similar as yourself that helped me with more of the spiritual and energetics of

soul-based entrepreneurship and heart-led entrepreneurship and helping me to really master that entire side of the spectrum that I had never really ventured into. I was always very strategic, very logical, very analytical. Again, I came from the digital marketing world in a corporation, and so I had the things down, but what I didn't have down at that point was the heart. And I think that once you find the heart, that's really when you start getting pulled towards something rather than running away from something. And so the work that you do

Ava Johanna (08:14.324)
is so important because I think that that can change so much for so many individuals that do feel like they've hit a ceiling within their own success and impact and financial income as well in their businesses. And so that was massive for me. And then the second time was several years later after I had mastered a lot of the energetics, but was still noticing that I was in this constant state of not enoughness.

And I remember looking around at my life and I lived in La Jolla, California, which is, you know, one of the most affluent areas in the United States. I was married. I had the beautiful home. I had my friendships. I had the money in the bank and I felt like an outsider in my own life. You know how, um,

You can walk down the street at night and some houses, the lights will be on and you'll see the families inside and they'll be doing whatever. And it's like, it looks like they're having a nice time. That felt like me. I felt like the stranger to my life, just walking down the street, but never actually able to go inside the house and enjoy it. And that was the bigger moment for me where I realized that it wasn't ever actually going to be the things that I had on paper, the material success.

that was going to create the sense of fulfillment and satiation that I deeply desired and that I needed in order to heal that younger version of myself's wounds and traumas. But it was giving that to myself and finding a way to create that sense of satisfaction.

and acknowledgement and acceptance within me. And so that's ultimately where I had my biggest breakthrough and kind of burnt my entire life to the ground to rebuild again through that lens of I'm no longer running away to just check items off that I think I need or that I think will make me happy, but.

Ava Johanna (10:23.572)
with this newfound understanding of truly having it all and realizing that the having isn't what gives you that sense of fulfillment and satisfaction and building from that space. So it's been a journey. think that we're a lot like onions, right? We're going to learn a little bit about ourselves and take that and hopefully implement it and let it change us. And then as we peel back that next layer, there might be another truth that comes up that we didn't necessarily know was there.

Makhosi (10:51.865)
Yeah, my gosh. You know, what's really, really interesting that I've also experienced on this journey is there's so many things that I thought that I wanted, right? That I would put on my vision board and I'm like, yes, that's exactly what I want for myself. then along the way, I would say that I experienced it a lot earlier in my life, which I'm really, totally grateful for.

because now I see that there are a lot of people who are older, who are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, even 60s, who are having that revelation. I realized that for me, when I sat down to make my goals and paint the vision of what I wanted my business to be, I didn't know that it was actually someone else's idea of what success looked like, which was kind of why I felt very disconnected.

from the success that I had created, even though it was what everyone else says that you should want. you know, on paper, it didn't look good. And it's not that I was ungrateful or that I didn't want it. It was just that it wasn't a full expression of who I truly was. And that when we are just creating from the mind and not from the heart, like you said,

it is always going to be limited because we don't always know what is in the highest alignment for us until we are coming from the heart and coming, like literally creating from fulfillment, not for fulfillment. I'm super curious about what it's been like for you to bring, so you run the Academy of Breath and

Ava Johanna (12:40.596)
Mm, I love that.

Makhosi (12:51.371)
That traditionally breathwork at its core comes from traditions that are not really mainstream. So how have you gone about taking this, you know, ancient wisdom, ancient technology and integrating that in a way that is understood and also desired by

the mainstream market.

Ava Johanna (13:24.75)
Such a great question. I think that the most important thing that I realized about breathwork as I was beginning to explore it almost a decade ago was that

first and foremost, using our breath, like if you are living, you are breathing. And so this is a God-given gift that all of us should have access to and can access within our lives unless we have some sort of real health or physical limitations that stop us from being able to explore at least the entire spectrum of breath work. And to me, realizing that just lit this fire under my ass that

I want to get breathwork into the hands of every single person across this planet and if I want to do that I need to know how to read the room. I need to know how to take this ancient wisdom and speak to it in a way that still honors its origin yet provides individuals across the entire spectrum with at least a slight opening in the door.

so that I can get my foot inside and show them because words truly cannot fully encompass the gift that is our breath. And trying to speak to it using our limited language actually does it such a disservice. It's the experience, it's actually embodying it that allows for an individual to begin to fully understand what it means to

have a devotional practice with our breath that we use in our everyday life. what I found was that going into a yoga studio, you could speak all day about the origins of pranayama and Hatha yoga and the experience of incorporating it as a God given practice. However, to go and get on a zoom,

Ava Johanna (15:34.41)
with a corporate company and a group of 30 individuals who maybe didn't even sign up to be there, but their boss just said, hey, we're doing this team building and it's going to be breath work today. To get those people interested, it was less about, hey, let me share all of the beauty that is Pranayama.

and the history and the origin and where these practices come from and why we do it in the morning and why we come clean to the practice, to come clean to God, you know, all of the beauty that is the devotional practice to it. That excitement that I felt got to be channeled through my energy itself, but not necessarily through my words, if that makes sense. I truly believe that when we are the embodiment of our work and when we feel on such a deep

heart level, what it means for somebody to have these practices, our energy speaks louder than our words. And so when I say read the room, it ultimately comes back to what is it that I need to convey to the person in front of me so that they're just as excited, whether they have all of the information or at first or not, because once they have the experience, they're going to have that same moment of

excitement and intrigue and inspiration that I had in my first practice when I wondered what the hell just happened, where did I go, what did my breath just do? And as a teacher I've always found that it's more compelling to let the student

come to you with their questions versus try and word vomit all over them to convince them as to why they should do something. Does that make sense?

Makhosi (17:31.523)
Yeah, 1000%. It does. One of the things that, like, I have a question behind this question, honestly, because one of the things that is always top of mind for me and has been a part of my own evolution has been my thinking around, like, maintaining the integrity of certain spiritual practices, lineages.

ideologies, et cetera, and being a leader who is bridging paradigms, who is really called to bring forth one aspect of, whether it be spirituality or transformation or a way of thinking, a way of life, and bridging that into another area that might not be exposed to it and

introducing some things like I come from, you know, a shamanic background and I've fallen on my face multiple times in, you know, either not reading the room fully or also just being feeling like I'm blindsided by some of the things that I just didn't know that I didn't know that other people didn't know.

if you get what I'm saying. So have there been any instances of when you like you didn't read the room and what happened?

Ava Johanna (18:59.939)
Mm-hmm.

Ava Johanna (19:09.006)
Yeah, I mean, I think that there have been more moments where I've come in hot and heavy trying to be that bridge for people and have seen eyes glaze over, interests begin to kind of, you know, move in a different direction or wane. And to me,

It's challenging, it's hard, because it's kind of heartbreaking, because to me, I give my whole life at this point to the practice of pranayama and to the yogic traditions in which they come from. And I teach traditional pranayama. I don't teach Wim Hof, I don't teach holotropic or transformational breath. Those breathwork practices are beautiful, but they are Western. They're not...

the Eastern practices that have been around for thousands and thousands of years. And so I've always come from the stance of like, these are practices that we are borrowing and that we are learning from, the East and they need to be respected. And I want everybody to know the traditional Sanskrit names, what these practices.

are meant for beyond just the science and the anatomy and, you know, better sleep and stress. And in that desire to share that over the years, I've realized that not everybody's ready for that. And again, it's heartbreaking for me, but I also know that through...

the years of just being a teacher, sometimes we need to be able to meet people where they're at and let people have their own journey. And so I definitely have, I would say, toned it down a lot. Like I remember when I was teaching in LA at more so Bandier, which is a New York based fashion company, they opened in LA and it was very like...

Ava Johanna (21:15.562)
influencer space, Pilates, like strength training, and like very much like everyone would pull their phones out and be recording themselves in their workouts during each class, which drove me effing nuts because I am not from that space. Like I do my content creation and whatnot, but I am not gonna pull my phone out during a class, let alone a yoga class and a breath work class. And I remember going into the studio the first couple of times and...

being so excited to share breathwork and Pranayama and using it saying Kapalabati or Bastrika or Chandraberri and using the actual Sanskrit names and people looking around like, what the hell are we doing? And it was those moments really of kind of being in the very Western world of like Los Angeles influencer wellness culture that I'm grateful I experienced early on that really opened my eyes to, people are on their own journey.

and they are either going to get on board with this when they feel inspired to and when it's meant to in their journey or they're not, but who am I to not share at least the practice itself with them to potentially open that doorway for them to have that step in their journey? And so I would say that those have been more of the points of tension.

because I've always gone so hard into, know, I'm a white woman, it is my responsibility to be very mindful of the fact that I am sharing practices from the East and that these aren't mine to begin with. And so that's always been something that's been very top of mind and probably overdone at some points where I've lost people.

Makhosi (23:03.087)
Yeah, yeah. I wanted to ask you that question because I think that these are some of the hidden thoughts of spiritual entrepreneurs, conscious leaders who either are holding certain wisdom or certain practices or even just participating for, you know, for their own evolution.

Ava Johanna (23:17.399)
Yeah.

Makhosi (23:33.115)
And it is a very tricky balance. It's a tricky tightrope to walk because on one hand you have the Western mindset, which is based in certain ways of thinking that can be very like extractive, can be very

judgmental or just misunderstanding of certain practices or certain traditions. There's a lot that that comes with it. And at the same time balancing, I am I got to say after my after this journey that I've been on, I am very pro gatekeeping certain aspects because the more that I've experienced and the more that I've seen, I'm like, yeah, this is this is definitely not for everyone. And there are

certain things that I think are.

widely freely given information practices knowledge, etc and simultaneously there does have to be a certain level of devotion to certain ways because Some of these practices are like this is what a way of life right certain practices are like a spiritual religion right and are not really just meant to be

Ava Johanna (24:52.056)
Mm-hmm.

Makhosi (25:02.649)
given freely when people don't necessarily fully understand or fully respect or fully even want, honestly, right? And I think that one of the things that we've got to be mindful of and start to pick up on is what exactly are we called for, right? Some of us are called to introduce certain

ideology or certain practices. think breath work is kind of like a gateway for more. And there are going to be people who are so inspired by that, who want to learn more. Like, where does this really come from? And like, what else is happening in my body? Because this is not just breath, right? Like, really wanting to go further into that. And also, there are people who are meant to be, you know, the carriers of

Ava Johanna (25:37.154)
Mm-hmm.

Makhosi (26:00.437)
specific lineages, I've come to realize more and more like my work is really centered around transforming people into alignment with their highest calling, but that also requires a lot of breaking down of the paradigms that are mentally and subconsciously limiting people on an energetic level from

really embodying their highest potential. And when you're doing what hasn't been done before, in many instances, can be a very difficult thing to traverse. I'm also really curious about community. I feel like community is a huge theme for 2025, and you've done a really incredible job.

in building community of like-minded students and teachers, et cetera, from around the world. What are the trends that you are starting to see in your community, but also just surrounding the importance of creating community as a leader, as an entrepreneur, but also

with your goal of creating a movement.

Ava Johanna (27:33.198)
I love this question so much. know, one of the things that I think, and I'm so curious to your thoughts on this. I think that within the wellness and personal development and especially the coaching space, about let's say 2021 to 2023, there was a really big message out there in mentorship and coaching and personal development around, know, buy my program, hire me, but don't

need me too much. The best clients don't need me too much. They're self starters. They are in their power. They barely check in. And after so many conversations with women that are clients or also women that I've been in mastermind spaces with and colleagues, that message created such a level of isolation.

and also shame and guilt around actually utilizing the communities that they're either signing up to be a part of or actually paying for. And so last year, I realized through all these conversations how many people felt so isolated and so alone despite sometimes paying tens of thousands of dollars and...

looked at my first couple years of being in the personal development space and realized that the thing that actually helped me the most was being so plugged in. And so for me, what that looked like shifting within my own business and people think that I'm crazy for doing this, but we do four calls a week with our community now. And what that's created is not only a consistent touch point for people to ask questions and, you know, be

in an hour long call with me or with my team, but also to really get to know each other and to support and to start supporting each other and celebrating each other and knowing what's going on in each other's lives beyond just seeing, you know, a post every here and there. And so even though it may not necessarily make sense or it might seem like an overkill for some leaders, what I found is actually bringing accountability and not necessarily hand holding, but high touch.

Ava Johanna (29:57.902)
connection into my spaces has not only created such a deeper level of intimacy within the spaces where that safety is there, they like opening up, they actually like celebrating, but it's also created a deeper bond within the individuals within my community itself. And so that's been the biggest thing is like really stepping away from this idea that you don't need the community that you are a part of and saying, no, you actually do need it. Like we are.

we are human beings. Like is a part of our makeup to be in community. So I want to create a space where you are always able to access community when you need it. And then the other thing, and I think that this is something that Cynthia Stant does so well is bringing back the ability to be together in person. even though it's not always the easiest thing to do and it may not make you the most money, but creating

events and experiences and meetups to actually be with your people in person takes away this idea that you are separated by a screen or even like pedestaling certain people because when we're together in person it's so much easier to see like damn we are all so the same and we're experiencing so much of the same and I think that that that closeness just creates such a level of of connection that

While yes, we can still create depth with each other online, there's nothing quite like being able to sit in circle together or spend a week in Maui diving into the things that we love together. And so I would say that those are the two biggest things. It's like really over the last two years, we've focused a lot on in-person, but then also on just ramping up the accessibility to me, to my team, and to each other.

Makhosi (31:54.939)
Yeah, it's so funny because when I was seeing these conversations happening in the industry around not having access and just plugging in when you're not needing that much, etc. One of the things that I think has shifted is that people realized that it wasn't just the information.

you're taking a program or you're taking a course and you're getting all of this information, but actually the transformation happens in community. And this is something that is a decision that I made some years back and it was not the most popular decision to put people of a certain mindset, of a certain way of being. Like leaders tend to not want

to be vulnerable and they tend to unknowingly isolate themselves and for good reason, right? There's like a level of protection that you want and being vulnerable can be really scary when you have half a million followers or you are leading people in a certain way and then you're experiencing a certain challenge, but.

I feel like the more that you evolve and the bigger the impact that you are trying to make on the world, like the more important that community is. And now we're seeing a rise of AI where any of us can really just go and ask a question and get an answer. So then what is the point of

coming into a program. Well, the point of coming into a program is the integration that you're gonna get from being in community. One of the things that I have really prided myself on, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well, is like really exploring the conversation around what is really necessary for real community, because

Makhosi (34:12.098)
maybe you've had this experience too. I've always felt kind of like a misfit in pretty much any space that I go into if the community is centered around like, all just have the same goal. And I came to a place where like, that's cool. Like we all have the same goal. We're all like trying to achieve the same thing. But when I started to analyze like what actually brings people together.

What actually creates a sense of real belonging that isn't just based on something superficial of like, I'm an entrepreneur, you're an entrepreneur, I'm a woman, you're a woman, right? What is that deeper thing? And I've come to realize, like for me, I can be in community with anyone who is really doing the work of conscious evolution. That means to me,

examining the shadows and the triggers and the uncomfortable taboo conversations, allowing ourselves to be like emotionally honest about where we are. Like, you know what? I'm actually feeling like some shit today. And that's the truth of where I am. But what are the key traits that you feel have made your community?

so strong and solid.

Ava Johanna (35:43.64)
Hmm. Yeah, I mean, that vulnerability piece that you just mentioned, I think is the number one thing because especially, you know, in our industry specifically, when you're in a group of women, let's be real, the sisterhood wound is a big thing that prevents so many women from showing up vulnerably because we've all had our fair share of bullying, friendships that haven't lasted.

you know, just shitty experiences with women. And so then you stick a bunch of powerful women in the same room. Of course, there's going to be fears around like, am I less powerful if I share that I don't feel powerful today? Or, you know, this person just had this amazing celebration and I actually feel like I want to go curl up in a ball and just like cry and eat a bowl of ice cream. Like it's, it's the dichotomy of that goes against so much of the

Wounding that I think a lot of us have and have to work through and so I think the vulnerability aspect and like creating a space safe enough for people to be vulnerable is I think a trickle down and energy right it starts first with the leader and so I've always felt that in My spaces I can't expect anybody to go deep if I'm not willing to go there myself and it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm gonna take the unprocessed

things that are still triggering me and share them on a call with my community. But I am going to share about things that I have processed and the realizations that I have had and the things that I have healed because I know that so many people in my community are either experiencing it currently or are going to experience it soon. And so I think that the most important thing around vulnerability itself is me, you, whoever is listening that considers themselves a leader to

Remember that if you are not experiencing the level of community connection intimacy vulnerability in your communal spaces that you would like You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself Where am I not showing up as that because everything is going to be an energetic match for however we are showing up and So I always will look at you know, like how do I show up in the groups that I'm a part of? How am I showing up with my people? Am I being vulnerable? Am I?

Ava Johanna (38:05.006)
creating a safe space? I celebrating people? Am I lifting people up within the communities that I'm a part of? If those are the things that I want within my spaces, then I need to make sure that I'm going first in that. And so I would say the most important, the three most important qualities and characteristics are vulnerability, safety, like really creating that safety for somebody to know it's safe for me to be seen in all that I am, even if all that I am isn't 100 % right now. And then also,

the energy of celebration because I think that again coming back to the sisterhood wound so much of us hold back from even celebrating ourselves because we don't want to be showing off. We don't want to be the know-it-all. We don't want to be the one that's bragging about themselves and celebration is actually such a powerful energy because not only does it again give you that moment to say wow like I can acknowledge myself. I can accept myself. I don't need validation outside of me to say I'm proud of me but on top of that

It gives everybody a glimpse into what's possible and shows them, if this is existing within my sphere, that means that I'm actually one step closer to it existing within my actual life.

Makhosi (39:16.463)
Yeah, I also find that it helps prevent amnesia because our know, the ego is always looking for like what's wrong? What's not working? What's not good enough? Where am I lacking and really honing in on what are you celebrating? Like even when it's seemingly small, right? Giving yourself permission to celebrate that about yourself, but also supporting community and celebrating.

Ava Johanna (39:21.856)
Yes.

Makhosi (39:45.819)
Even if you just like saw something differently than you would have last week is a win is worth celebrating because one of the things that that happens in transformation is like if you work with your ego and give it enough pieces of evidence that you know what you are blank. You are a speaker. You are an author. You are

leader. Every single moment that you celebrate evidence of that further cements that truth or that possibility in how you perceive yourself. I'm curious for you, one of the things that does come up as a leader as you start to achieve beyond the norm, when you achieve beyond

you know, what your hometown friends or what your beginner business buddies have achieved, it can be difficult to find really solid connections, collaborators, expanders. How do you go about putting yourself in spaces that expand you? Like, what are your...

What are your indicators or your criteria that let you know like, okay, this is my next edge. That isn't always just like, I feel like money is such an easy one. Like, just get in rooms of people like making more money. But I don't know, eventually the rooms of people, like if you're making a hundred million dollars a year, are there still rooms that of people who are doing more than you? Sure, but I've been around people who are making.

Ava Johanna (41:35.968)
Alright.

Makhosi (41:42.617)
seven, eight, nine plus figures a year and they are not always expansive. So what are your, what are your kind of your clues that you are in the presence of expansion?

Ava Johanna (41:49.228)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ava Johanna (41:55.81)
I love this so much. So I'll tell a story to answer this question. Earlier this year, I got invited to Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins headquarters in not Sedona Scottsdale, their mastermind company. And they were bringing together a bunch of their top partners that they work with on certain launches. And I remember

first and foremost getting the invite and being like, holy crap, what? This is not a room I've ever played in before. This is crazy that even like a caliber of this leader is reaching out and inviting me to be a part of this. And there was that feeling of, I would say a little bit of imposter syndrome that came up in that moment where I was like, wait, am I like meant to be in this room? And I felt it again when I walked into the room. And sure, there were definitely people that made way more money than me, but.

It wasn't like it was just a room of coaches. It was a room of tons of different individuals of different ages, different types of businesses, different levels of wisdom. I remember the man that sat next to me had been a documentarian his entire life and was sharing with me all of these incredible stories and documentaries that he had created and people that he had sat with. And I remember feeling like, wow, I am the young buck in this room.

And there was a moment where I had to excuse myself and walk into the bathroom and put a hand on my heart and a hand on my belly and just take some deep breaths and remind myself, Ava, you deserve to be here. You wouldn't be in this room if you weren't meant to be here. And so soak it up, let yourself be the young buck. And so I think that there's a level of imposter syndrome actually that will come up when you are in a stretchier room. And the thing is,

you need to know what to do with that, how to alchemize that imposter syndrome when it comes up because you are meant to be there and you are worthy of being there and you're deserving of being there. And so I think that was one of the biggest indicators for me was, wow, this actually feels a little bit uncomfortable because I'm not at the top here. I am kind of at the very beginning and feeling this energy of there's so much for me to learn in this space that shifted me from a state of fear or maybe unworthiness into a state of

Ava Johanna (44:12.234)
excitement and intrigue and curiosity. And so I think that that's like the biggest thing is realizing that you might actually, in rooms that are bigger than you that are stretchier and more expansive, feel a little bit of imposter syndrome. But the imposter syndrome isn't there to say go turn around or go don't go do this. The imposter syndrome is there to say, can you get curious? And can you realize and do whatever you need to do in terms of your spiritual practices?

to remind yourself that you're meant to be there and then let yourself have fun because we're never, it's never healthy to always be the top dog in every room that you walk into because that's how you end up stalling out and no longer growing. And so I would encourage anybody that's listening like this year, especially like getting in those rooms, Mikosi, I know you have an amazing mastermind as well. Like those are the types of rooms that are going to stretch you, like you said, not just in, you

money and an impact or an income, but also in like spiritual depth too. Like I think that those rooms are also so valuable because you might be completely neutralized around the energy of money, right? You might go into a room with nine figure and nine figure business owners and billionaires and be like, this isn't expansive anymore, but you might walk into a room of 10 women who are willing to talk about

know, sexuality and tantra and feminine energy and be like, wow, this is outside of my comfort zone. And those are the rooms that can, and that that feeling is what really tells us, ooh, this is stretching me in the right direction.

Makhosi (45:50.631)
Mm-hmm. my gosh. This is such a good example because you know That that period of time in the industry 2021 to 2023, you know, there was there were so many Masterminds coaching programs, etc that were all centered around, you know a specific industry and I think that in certain instances, especially like if you're entering into a new

a new industry, for example, and you don't yet know the basics of an industry. You haven't really got your foundation in a specific industry. I find that that's a time that it can actually be more beneficial to be in a room of coaches if you're going into coaching, for example. But once you've gotten to a certain level where you really have at least some business 101,

in your own industry and have that foundation set. I personally find that being in a room of people who are in different industries, who have very different perspectives and very different ideas can be so expansive. And this is why I've just run my groups in this way. I don't target one specific industry. You get so many amazing insights and ideas and

just different perspectives when you are learning from people who aren't necessarily doing the exact same thing that you're doing, right? And I personally, I take so much of my inspiration from the fashion industry, from, philosophers, from, like what's happening in politics or whatever, just random places that give me inspiration. And I pull those into

the work that I'm doing. And so it creates a different level of innovation, right? But also for me, have different, I'm in different groups for different reasons. And I think that that's okay. But I've always prided myself on being the kind of person who is completely comfortable going into.

Ava Johanna (47:52.14)
Mm-hmm.

Makhosi (48:10.383)
the uncomfortable conversations, like the taboo topics around money, around sexuality, around racism and misogyny and what it means to be a woman instead of doing things like you were taught as a man, right? All of those kind of uncomfortable taboo topics are kind of my jam. It's in my astrological chart.

Ava Johanna (48:38.126)
you

Makhosi (48:39.855)
But I think that just having some conscious, developing some conscious awareness around where you are and what is the medicine that's really necessary for you in your next evolution is so important to making sure that you get into an aligned space and also letting go of expectations as well. Like,

Ava Johanna (49:05.826)
Mm.

Makhosi (49:07.387)
I deal with a lot of type A people who have certain expectations of like, I need a step-by-step curriculum that is like this, this and this. And I'm like, and that is why, that is the thing that's been holding you back. What you need is the medicine of spontaneity and of being guided by intuition and following your higher self and trusting that it's going to bring.

the obstacles that are really the opportunity for your evolution. And that can't always fit into like step one, we're doing this. Step two, now we're doing that, right? Anyway, I know we are gonna be wrapping up our time here, but before we go, I really would love to hear from you, what is your next evolution? Like what's coming next for Ava in 2025?

What are you passionate to bring in this upcoming season?

Ava Johanna (50:09.07)
Yes, I mean, this conversation has been so juicy. feel like it's rare that you're able to meet somebody on a level where you're able to kind of ping pong through these different spaces and conversations, but still maintain that depth. So thank you so much first and foremost for even inviting me on the podcast.

2024 was a really interesting year. I feel like the first half of the year I was floundering a lot. My word for 2024 was creativity. And within that, I wrote my first book, which was a incredible experience. It was so cathartic, it was fun, it was...

incredibly emotional too, because it was something that, you know, young Ava at the very beginning of her journey of starting her business knew after opening The Universe Has Your Back by Gabby Bernstein, ooh, one day I'll do this. And I kind of always put one day and a year later, a year later, a year later, and at the beginning of last year, I said, you know, I'm going to write my book and

I spent the first half of the year really in deep creativity. And I think whenever you're in that deep creation mode, it's more feminine, right? And so it means the emotions are swirling, the energy is constant and sometimes is chaotic. And because of that, a lot of other aspects of the realm of leadership for me felt a little unstable. And so the second half of my year ended up being completely different with that stability, that plan, steps one through 10. And now given

kind of the dichotomy of 2024, this next year and this next stage of my evolution is really allowing myself to lean fully into the structure that I've built, like the rock that I've truly built my business on. It felt like it was always kind of built on sand until last year. doubling down on the things that ultimately are going to allow for me to create

Ava Johanna (52:20.682)
even more transformation in the lives of my clients. I was just meditating on the beach this morning. you know, like I was saying earlier, Manhattan Beach is a pretty big part of my journey. I used to come down to this beach before my meditation classes every week and just meditate and pray on the beach and ask like, please God show me how easy it gets to be. Show me like, I'm just so ready. I want to serve. I want to change my life. And this morning, my meditation hit so much differently because I

was just in pure gratitude for the fact that I'm sitting on the same beach that I sat on years ago and all of the things that I prayed for are here. And if I can just take this all and bottle it up and like bring this lightning in a bottle to even one more person, I would be forever grateful. And so it's that prayer that's going to carry me through in this next evolution. But then on top of that, like I mentioned,

bringing this book to life. I'm so excited to share it. I'm really excited for everything that we're planning from in-person events in New York, Miami, Chicago, LA. It's going to be fun. The book is called Your Vision Board Life, and it's all about how to become the woman who turns dreams into reality. And it is a...

bit of memoir and blend of the spiritual principles that have ultimately allowed for me to go from that, you know, angry girl in poverty to a seven figure business owner. So I'm really excited because I've always looked at this book and whatever book I create as being kind of that gateway to the young girl who knows that she's meant for more. And so it's going to be absolutely

crazy for this book to come out. Like I don't even know what I'm going to do once it actually hits the hands of the people in my community and further beyond that. So that'll be happening in spring of 2025. But then a lot of everything that we just talked about too, like in-person events, retreats, I'm excited for all of it and just really grateful. mean, I'm in a big, big season of everything I have is enough. So anything on top of this is just truly the cherry on top.

Makhosi (54:34.587)
I love that. I love that so much. Well, I for one cannot wait for your book to come out. I'm a big reader and this year one of my biggest goals is to like read like nobody's business because I've kind of set it to the side for a while and I feel like, I don't know, it's interesting like 2025 it feels like kind of nostalgic in that we're bringing back

Ava Johanna (54:51.575)
I love it.

Makhosi (55:03.769)
some of the like old school human things like in-person events and books and you know all of these ways that I think really ground us in our humanity in our in our connection to ourself and to one another and I'm really excited for that like not that I'm not excited about AI and you know what's happening virtually but I'm excited to see you know leaders like you bringing through

bringing back some of the oldies but goodies with a book. I can't wait to.

Ava Johanna (55:37.652)
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like the fringe things to do now, right? Like the events and retreats and books. It's all like, it's all on the outskirts of what the personal development industry had to turn into because of the pandemic. And now bringing it back, it's like, you're doing retreats? That's cool. No one else in my sphere is doing retreats.

Makhosi (55:57.465)
Yeah, like Ava, are you gonna put a course on CDs?

Ava Johanna (56:02.592)
No, it'll be one of those tapes that you stick in the car that has the little aux cords into it.

Makhosi (56:11.083)
my gosh, that would be hilarious. Even just to do that for just for fun would be absolutely epic to do.

Ava Johanna (56:15.651)
yeah.

Yeah.

Makhosi (56:20.291)
I love that. Well, I appreciate you so much for being here. I'm really glad that we decided to do this, even though, you know, it's been a year and a half or so since we met. I knew this was going to be a really great conversation. And I'm so excited to see you continue to just spread your message, spread your work in all of these different ways. And of course,

I would love for you to share how people can connect with you.

Ava Johanna (56:52.013)
Hmm.

Well, likewise, and you know, for everybody listening, I know that you have your core people, your community, your clients, but for anybody that is new to Mccosie's world that's listening to this podcast, there is no woman that I've met, not even just in this industry, but just in general that holds herself with such integrity, but also so much heart. And so you are in good hands, great hands by being here. And I just appreciate that our paths crossed. I respect you tremendously and it's an honor to be

sharing space with you.

For anybody that wants to connect with me, my Instagram is at Ava Johanna. As Makosi mentioned earlier, my company is called the Academy of Breath. We do a breathwork certification. We have an advanced practitioner training. And then we also have our high ticket coach academy, which really is for more of the beginner business babes who are ready to create that foundation for themselves in their business. So all of that can be found by just sending me a DM. And I'd love to connect with you via the DM. So you're more than welcome to slide on in if this conversation was inspiring to you.

Makhosi (57:54.055)
my gosh, I love that so much. I love more money in the hands of fabulous women. So I'm here for that. And I appreciate you so much for all of your kind words. really, really, it's such an honor to be seen in that way. And I really, I probably take it a little bit too seriously. It makes me like a little bit not the most fun and popular person because I'm always like, but this is an integrity.

It's who I am, at least for now.

Ava Johanna (58:28.71)
It's important.

Makhosi (58:29.079)
Anyhow, it is really important. like I said earlier, when we are leading in the new era and we are challenging the way that things have been done and we are walking these tight ropes of bridging systems and ideas and bringing work into areas that it hasn't been done before, it takes...

It takes a lot of consciousness to do that. And it's an ever evolving thing. And so I appreciate you sharing all of your incredible insights from your journey. There's so many amazing takeaways that I know are going to have an incredible impact on anyone listening. And with that said, this has been Euphoric Evolution and I will see you next time.