Euphoric Evolution

71. From Burnout to Blueprint: Leading with Resonance

• Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser

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In this enlightening conversation, Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser and Tracy explore the journey of high achievers, the importance of embracing uncertainty, and the evolving nature of business as a living system. They discuss the significance of human connection in a technology-driven world, the rise of values-based purchasing, and the challenges faced by personal brands in standing firm on their values. The dialogue emphasizes the need for holistic thinking and the distinction between hustle and flow in the creative process, culminating in a vision for a new paradigm of business that fosters thriving communities.

Takeaways

  • Tracy identifies as a high achiever driven by curiosity and creation.
  • Ego death is a natural part of personal evolution in entrepreneurship.
  • Loving uncertainty is essential for thriving in business and life.
  • Business should be viewed as a living system, not just a profit-making entity.
  • Trends indicate a growing demand for authenticity and organic connection.
  • The rise of AI will highlight the need for genuine human interaction.
  • Values-based purchasing is increasingly influencing consumer behavior.
  • Founders have the flexibility to establish their own business values.
  • Holistic thinking is crucial for understanding interconnected systems.
  • Flow in creation leads to more sustainable and fulfilling outcomes.

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Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (00:01.9)
I am so excited for this conversation that has really been in the works over the last few months. I met Tracy, my guest today, late last year, and she was so incredible and we resonated on so many levels. And so I'm really excited to have you here with us today, Tracy. How are you today?

Tracy (00:25.128)
I am great. Thanks, Makosi. Yeah, we've tried a couple of times. So this must be the winning moment. And I am recovering from a cold. So you're going to get the nasally version of Tracy today.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (00:39.066)
So I would love for you to share a little bit about, let's call it your like high achiever arc, your business success arc that kind of led to this newer evolution of yourself, if you will.

Tracy (01:00.334)
Sure. Well, I've been working. I mean, let's go. If we're going to do the arc, let's really do it. I was like working at 14.

that was normal. I wanted to, it wasn't like I was forced to, I'm just, but, so I would say I probably came out of the womb as a high achiever. and I don't think I'm a high achiever in the typical sense where it's all about winning. actually for me, it's more about curiosity and what can I create?

I'm much more inspired that way than how can I win? So I think that's important to say, but anyway, and Arc, yeah, my first, first job was at 14. I was a futurist in my early, early 20s before it was a thing. And I was consulting big brands.

on the future decisions, whether they were doing &A's or product development. And that was all through my natural actually inclination to really look at things from a very, very zoomed out way and be able to see the macro connection in all and how it connects and then dissects into the micro. I'm a serial entrepreneur.

I've founded, built, and grown three different companies, two that I've sold. One was a brand strategy, award-winning brand strategy agency where we launched global products that billions of people use every day. We were advising brands like Google and Disney and Amazon and Visa and many more.

Tracy (03:05.888)
Yeah, that's my arc to what I'm doing now, which is I take all that experience actually and work with what I call world shapers, know, people who visionary leaders who are building the next healthcare, education, economy, technology, etc. So that's a little bit about me. Is that enough of the arc you were looking for?

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (03:31.682)
No, that's perfect. And I love that you make the distinction because I think, you sometimes people will share with me in the DMs or through email and they'll say, you know, I don't necessarily see myself as a high achiever, even though they've done some of the most incredible stuff. And it's because I think this idea of a high achiever has been so tied to, you know, just like winning for the sake of winning, climbing the ladder just to be climbing the ladder, getting the, you know,

the Lexus just to get the Lexus and that there is actually a version of creator that is inspired by something different, right? And that that can be an incredible fuel source. And actually I personally feel like it's a more sustainable fuel source than just chasing for the sake of chasing.

I'm super curious about how do you feel like your identity has shifted over the years going from, you know, one of the biggest challenges I see when someone sells a company and they're kind of attached to it, especially if they're a personal brand, there's an addition to that. But how have you navigated, you know, being the top of a company, then selling it and then sitting

in your life and going, okay, what now?

Tracy (05:04.054)
Yeah. Well, the identity attachment is real. A hundred percent. I see it all the time too, with founders that I've worked with who have exited and they're sort of like, what's next? I think what I've really learned, which might sound odd to a lot of people, maybe not to you, but I chase an ego death.

I don't find it difficult. I don't find it dismantling because I've actually learned that beyond every ego death, and that's to me what an identity is, right? Is actually something so much better that you couldn't even imagine. And I've been through it so many different times. Now it's like,

I mean, I don't actually chase it. think, you know, that's that's for conversation purposes. But if I'm if I'm not shifting and changing, I think something is actually wrong.

So that's how I deal with it.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (06:16.118)
Yeah. Yeah. What excites me about that is, you know, maybe the first time or two that you go through it, it can feel terrifying because it literally can't, you know, I feel like the word ego death is perfect because it does kind of feel like you're dying. And what's typically scary about it is just the unknown on the other side, right? It's like, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know who I'm going to be where when you are

You know, one of the best parts about building a company is you can create a plan and it's like, yeah, I kind of have an idea or a vision of where this is going. And when it's, when it comes to that internal piece, you may not know who you're going to be on the other side, but it is always so much better than you could have imagined. And also, you know, sometimes we have to let go of people, businesses, offers.

et cetera that can't really go along on the journey.

Tracy (07:19.982)
100%. And of course, yes, if you're not accustomed to having egotism in the beginning, yeah, it is scary. a lot of people, when they talk about entrepreneurship and success in business, the skills that are needed, and by the way, there's a lot of skills actually that are needed to thrive in entrepreneurship. But a lot of the

hard skills are talked about, such as selling and being a strategist and being a leader and all those things are absolutely important. But I think two things that are so undervalued, and you mentioned him, which is why I'm bringing it up, in succeeding and thriving, not just in entrepreneurship, but life, is actually loving uncertainty.

Tracy (08:22.526)
loving it, being comfortable with it. And that's, think, what we are all learning right now in a macro way, by the way, right? And the second is imagination. And I don't mean dreaming. I mean, what could be possible? What can be possible? Because everybody's kind of in this

in level of inquiry and focus of, well, what's the strategy and what do I do and how do we get there? And of course, that's an important piece. But if we're keeping our inquiry at that level, it's not the place to begin. And, you know, I'm sure you can attest, I can attest all strategies work and they all don't.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (09:23.224)
Yes, this is so I love where this conversation is going because I feel like we're having this conversation at the perfect time, right? If we think about what's happening, yes, in the US, societally, but also it's not just here. We really are experiencing this massive shift. And one of the things that has come up for me recently, and I think you're going to jive with this,

is that I've had the realization that I've always kept it hidden, but now I'm bringing it to the forefront that ultimately this work is about on a big picture level, civilization recalibration, right? That ultimately we get to use the vehicle of brand or of business or messaging, et cetera, to be really, really intentional.

Tracy (10:16.654)
Mm-hmm.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (10:22.358)
about what is possible and through all of these different channels of business actually creating that, right? Being like the source point for the establishment of new ways of being and new ways of doing things and new ways of thinking of things. So I'm curious for you, what are some of the trends or shifts that you think we're going to really see?

like bubble up to the top over the next one year, five years, 10 years and beyond.

Tracy (11:01.322)
Okay, well, this is a big, big conversation. Yeah, I mean, because my work is really very much centered in that. Absolutely. And when I think of what I'd like to center us in, though, before we go there is what is business?

Right? Most people think business is a vehicle to make money. Absolutely. A business that is a partial, right, reason or purpose of business. Absolutely. But a business is not just an entity. It's a living system.

And that's how I think of business. And business is the glue that actually keeps society running as it is on a macro scale.

Right? It's not a business as a specific entity, but industry of business is how we exchange. Right? That's the form of exchange. So that's how we plug in to society. Does that make sense?

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (12:18.01)
1000 % from my perspective. I see I see money as a byproduct of energetic exchange and it's not the soul or rather it shouldn't be the soul reasoning for for doing things. It's a very important part, but ultimately I see I see business as a sacred thing as a

Tracy (12:28.507)
and

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (12:47.266)
as a living way that we actually exchange service with one another, trade impact, share purpose, if you will. And to me that this is part of why I've always loved being in the business space because it's really just bringing structure or tangibility to something that is intangible.

Tracy (13:17.462)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, beautiful. I love that. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, going back to trends, because you asked that, and I think, you know, we should... That's like a whole other long conversation, but some of the immediate things that I'm seeing right now and how I see them impacting is, you know, with all this introduction of artificial intelligence,

you know, people are going to become even more attuned to what is organic.

And not and I'm not a AI, you know hater. I think it absolutely actually has amazing amazing trajectories and opportunities for all of us but That doesn't replace the organic So how I see that happening from a macro trend is anything that doesn't have the essence or

the real organic energy behind it or the, if you want to call it soul is another way we could talk about it. If you don't have essence, it's going to hollow out and fall flat because people will feel it. They may not be able to articulate it specifically. That's what they're experiencing, but they will experience it and it will become a hollow channel.

So that is one way I think that we're seeing things and how that's going to play out in many ways, right? In personal brands and how companies are trying to let go of people in order to be more efficient. I mean, it has a long ripple effect in society, I think. And I think we'll see that really starting. I mean, I think we're seeing it now actually.

Tracy (15:20.378)
but I think it's going to really speed up in the next two years. that's one major trend. another major trend is, I would call lack of resonance. And to me, what that means is it's beyond authenticity. It's all the, manipulative tactics that

are used to market, are used to sell, are used to advertise. And when there's a lack of resonance for people, which is a connection really, a realness, it also falls flat and becomes hollow. So I definitely see a falling away of that. Some people call it very bro-markety or hardcore.

selling, I think that's really losing steam very quickly. So those are two major trends that I see. We could keep going, but you tell me where you want to go.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (16:26.382)
No, I mean, yes, of course we could probably talk for hours on that, but I think that my own personal feeling is it's so interesting that it's almost like the rise or the increase of the technical or technological ability to do things is actually causing us to be more human, right? It's almost like the more access that we get to technology, the more

Tracy (16:49.379)
Yeah.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (16:56.014)
we crave deeper levels of connection. And I think of, you know, right now, some of the big corporations, Walmart, Target, et cetera, are experiencing so many people really railing against self-checkouts, right? I think this is a really good example where they are starting to remove self-checkouts from certain stores because people are wanting

to have more connection, especially, you know, since 2020, people really want that. And to me, it also presents a really incredible opportunity, especially for smaller brands, smaller companies, solopreneurs, that you actually have the potential for a winning upper hand. Because when you are a giant conglomerate,

Right? It's much more difficult to maintain or hold on to the humanity versus when it is just you and maybe a team of 10. And you're able to integrate more human touch points, share more, you know, personal stories and build that resonance. When you say, I would love your insight on what is, what do you

like what is causing resonance to happen?

Tracy (18:31.806)
What is cause? Well, I'll define resonance first and then maybe we can go into what is kind of triggering the emergence of it, right? So resonance to me is relational. So some people may call it connection. It doesn't have to mean a true connection like you and I are having a connection right now, right? But relational is also, I see that person. I

I get them. So it doesn't have to be a one-on-one or one-to-many connection. So to me, it's relational. And it's also coherence within individuals and coherence within systems. So we're seeing a lot of non-coherence within individuals and within systems. So that's how I think of resonance as a whole.

and respecting organic life, organic intelligence, which...

Again, AI and technology, it's not that that's a bad thing, but it is actually driving us. One of the reasons that you said is driving us into the organic, which to me is resonance.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (19:55.278)
Yeah. So one of the ways that I see this kind of playing out is there seems to be a drastic increase in values based purchasing, marketing, et cetera. And it also appears that many people are completely opting out of engaging with certain companies.

Tracy (19:56.206)
I don't know, that's what we do.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (20:26.016)
if they aren't aware or if it isn't clear what values a company or a brand is standing on. How do you see that? Do you see that going away anytime soon or do you think that's gonna actually increase?

Tracy (20:43.106)
Yeah, it's I mean, the numbers are really high. I've actually looked into us. I wrote a white paper about Gen C, which is conscious creators. So I've done quite a bit of research around this, and I don't have the paper up in front of me. So I can't read off to you the specifics of it. But they're really high. Just to your point, people making decisions around

you know, value driven, purpose driven companies, it's increased like 75 % or something like that. So it's huge. So yeah, so it's already happening. I do not think it's going to slow down in any way, or form. I think it's only going to continue to rise and grow. And, you know, I think most of the time when people think about change,

We think about it in a very linear way. Like how many people do we need to get on board to then move it forward? That to me is a linear way. The shift that we're going through right now is not that. This is an energetic, this is a consciousness. This does not work in linear ways. You don't need

X amount of people to get on board in order for this to happen. It is already happening. It is already moving. And, you don't need to fight the old for this to shift either. All you need to do is just move into the new. Right. There doesn't have to be this huge activism or, you know, changing the system. Actually, there's not really much changing about it.

It's run, it's arc. You we talked about arcs in the beginning. I love an arc. This system has run its arc. This has happened many, many, many, many, many, many times in history. And there's nothing to be afraid of, but I think we have to also realize we can just step into the new.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (23:02.33)
Yeah, yeah, everyone can do it. And also I think, you know, people are craving, when people are craving a new way of doing things, because it's become so clear that our old ways of doing things were not working, right? I was sharing with one of my private clients yesterday, you know, she was like, I'm in this male dominated industry.

Tracy (23:03.552)
Everyone can see it.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (23:30.262)
and I really want to shift how we do things and like bring more humanity. And it's like, need to, I feel like I need to fight against the fact that they want to essentially take out all of the emotional aspect of working together. And I want to bring more of it. And I said, well, you may think maybe they are showing you signs of resistance, but the truth is, that

holding on to that way of being is actually becoming more it's becoming so much more obvious that it doesn't work Right and we're talking about corporate. So there's like a bottom line. The bottom line is actually you all are losing money more every year when people are Burnt out and they're taking off time for mental health days, right when you're losing customers because they

don't feel any sort of relational connection, right? All of those are examples. All you need to do is present a new option to them in a way that they understand and that also is desirable to them. And boom, they can just move into it. You actually don't have to go fighting, you know, 50, 100 years of doing things in a specific way.

What do you say to a personal brand or a founder who's running a company? there is, this is what I come across. There's a lot of fear around standing 10 toes down on certain values or even speaking to some of the personal things that they care about. seeing, I see on one hand,

A lot of people are upset with companies and brands for not speaking about various things and trying to, you know, cancel people, et cetera. And at the same time, I mean, I've experienced it when I've when I stand 10 toes down, even on something that should not to me shouldn't seem questionable. You know, my follower count drop drop like crazy. Right.

Tracy (25:55.498)
And,

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (25:56.74)
What do you say to someone who is leading and experiencing that fear? Like, how much is too much to share? What values do you stand on? What do you stay far away from? How do you go about thinking this through?

Tracy (26:16.694)
Yeah, well, I predominantly work with founders. for me, a founder has a lot more flexibility in making, establishing, let's call them their rules. And I don't mean like you must obey them, but their parameters that their business runs upon. So versus a large company and someone inside a company. So I do think it's different, just to be clear.

And I think...

My answer might be not linear, but I'm going to share what's, you know, what's really surfacing for me is a lot of this.

We want something new has been coming from what I call the do good paradigm. And, where it's, know, moral. And I think coming from that angle is actually not really, it's not that it's wrong. It's not complete because we have to look at things outside of a, to do good. We actually have to look at the whole system.

which is more than just doing good, it's actually looking like how do things actually thrive?

Tracy (27:40.09)
I mean, it's kind of common sense. You know?

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (27:48.154)
But not really. It is, but a lot of people are not thinking about things beyond, you know, when we're little, this is how I'm taking what you're saying. When we're little, everything is very much based in morals. What is right? What is wrong? And what I'm hearing you say, and also what I would agree with, is that it's more about how is impact happening? Like from my perspective, whether we are trying to or not, we are making an impact. So what is the truth?

of the impact that we're making, right? And what is the actual effect of that?

Tracy (28:25.262)
And how do things, humans, living systems, companies, how do they really thrive? Because everything is interconnected. And when we look at things through a binary lens, which that's how we've all been taught as humans. So I understand that's a lens that most people use. It's either right or wrong.

It's either this or that. And that we have to move outside of that binary lens to see is like, what is the bigger picture here? How is everything interconnected? How do things really move within a system, a living system? And it's not just strategy.

Yes, it's a component, but it is definitely not just about strategy. So you asked a question like, what would you advise? That's what I would advise. Take it out of the emotional, it's right, it's the right thing to do, the do good paradigm and move into something more holistic, such as how do things really move within a system? How do things really thrive? And what's necessary for that?

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (29:45.572)
Hmm. my goodness. There's eight million places that we could go with that. But in the respect of time, I'm gonna leave that there because I want, I feel like it's more important that we have conversations where we do leave open-ended questions, right? We need to have more dialogue where there's these open-ended questions that you take and you nom, nom, nom.

Tracy (30:04.323)
Yeah.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (30:13.69)
You two on in a little bit and I think the point that you're the way that you're saying this how I would say it is What is actually serving? right this this concept of what actually helps people thrive what is actually serving and I like to ask this type of question because often we just You know in my initiation process one of the things that we really dive deep on is

the danger of preferences, right? Just because something seems good or something is what you prefer, which is usually just what you're already comfortable with or what has just always been done. But that doesn't mean that that's the thing that creates thriving, right? For you as an individual, for your business, for the people that you touch and beyond, right? It's what actually

creates an environment that allows for people to thrive or for the business to thrive, right? So good. Yeah.

Tracy (31:20.738)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think leaving an open-ended question is beautiful because also what we're talking about is not about following playbook A. So you do this step and you do this step and you do this step. And it's not about that because everybody's thriving is going to look unique.

So this whole idea of cookie cutter stuff in business, like this is how it works, that is quickly ending if it hasn't already. Going back to the start, right? And it kind of, it's what got us, one of the reasons why it got us here in the first place, because there is no cookie cutter way.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (31:59.578)
Thank God. Thank God.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (32:11.214)
Mm-hmm.

Tracy (32:15.63)
How was my business, your business? Whoever's business is a very different thing. We're different people. So anyway, yeah.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (32:24.376)
Yeah, I think a lot of people just love the simple way. We love a template, plug-in play. I just do this, this, and this, right? And one of the things that has really become very apparent to me over the last few years, and also why I've moved more into the business space, even though I was primarily in the spiritual space or the consciousness space, and now I'm...

fusing those more is I actually have a business background and then went on a spiritual journey and I came, I call it through the back door of spirituality because I knew nothing about new age spirituality. I was just initiating in ancient and indigenous pathways. But I come out and I'm finally like in the industry and so many people are like, yeah, I know business. I learned business from

So, so and so. And so I stupidly made the assumption that, okay, so we're talking about like the principles or the fundamentals of business. And I realized, no, actually mostly what's happened up until now is people have just been copying and pasting what worked for someone else. And we're kind of at this moment now where everyone is becoming aware that, no, taking someone else's playbook,

means now I'm having to force my essence into someone else's box, right? Or I am trying to deploy a strategy, which like you said, all strategies work and all also they don't work, right? They're, they are going to not work for the vast majority of people. They are going to work for the aligned people or the people who can contort themselves enough to fit in a box. And everyone wants freedom now.

And it's not just freedom from, you know, freedom financially or even just time freedom. Now it's freedom of self that I can live in the way that I want. And so that actually brings me to a little bit more of a personal question because all of those were kind of selfish questions to extract all of Tracy's goodies for everyone listening. I want to know about you. I want to know about, you know, in this upcoming period,

Tracy (34:40.3)
Thank

Tracy (34:45.933)
Yeah.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (34:50.488)
What are you most excited to create or bring forth in this world? What has really been weighing on your heart in an expansive way?

Tracy (35:07.006)
my gosh, much. mean, I am built, well, I think we all are, but I am, you asked about me. So I am built to create. And that can look like huge projects because I'm also built for that. I've also have experience in that, right? But it also can look micro projects.

So I am really most excited about building out a new civilization. And I am a very skilled architect. And I don't mean a architect in the way that I'm not designing homes. I'm not designing structures. I am an architect of create large scale blueprints of how things actually flow and

So maybe you could call that structural. Maybe you could call that architecture itself. So I have done over the last six years, tons of work around what this looks like and the different factors, the economic, business and leadership, healthcare, governance, et cetera. So that's something I'm actively working on and seeding it in various ways.

it might sound like a really crazy thing to a lot of people, but it's one of the most natural, most exciting things for me to do. I'm an architect. so I'm working on that. I'm working on building a organic intelligence that, will bring organic truth to the world.

So that's in a stage of development now. I'm really excited about that.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (37:10.586)
That sounds very fascinating.

Tracy (37:12.75)
and you know, I'm excited about helping continuing helping the founders and the, know, the builders and the stewards who are.

taking this work and bringing it into the world in their various ways. And so those are the things that I'm personally excited about, but I'm constantly creating. I take rest when I feel aligned to take rest, but I don't need a ton of rest because I love creating.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (37:45.892)
Yeah. You know, one of the things that comes across on your face, which I absolutely love to see is when you start talking about and going into the things that you're creating, there is this light that starts to come, you know, this, this like childlike curiosity and, and inspiration that comes. And I feel it's so important that

Tracy (37:53.643)
Hmm.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (38:17.688)
We as leaders take time and space to make sure that we are staying connected with that in the process of creating. I get a lot of leaders who come to me around the burnout stage. And like you're sharing here, you don't need a lot of rest. I also don't need a lot of rest. And I think that

Tracy (38:27.726)
the

Tracy (38:38.456)
Mm.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (38:47.032)
I realized this yesterday that we have this conversation around hustle and hustle creates burnout, but it's so fascinating when you actually come from this place that you Tracy are coming from, that when you are in flow, when you are activated and inspired, literally creating from spirit, from pure consciousness, that you actually have, you can almost transcend

Tracy (39:01.955)
Yeah.

Tracy (39:09.495)
Yes.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (39:16.716)
some of the human limitations that say, I can only work this much, but it doesn't feel like work. How do you tell the difference between hustle and flow? Because from my perspective, you can work the same amount of time doing both, but one will feel like molasses, another doesn't.

Tracy (39:37.334)
Yes.

Tracy (39:43.818)
Yep. yeah. I mean, I think I remember reading a quote like you could work 1000 hours and get the same get to the same place by working five. You know, and that's so true. And you explained it beautifully. Yeah, I work very much outside of the realms of, you know, human pushing and and

making it happen. you know, the difference for me is motivation is actually an ambition, by the way. I don't think either one of them are necessary unless you are doing something that is uninspiring to you.

Tracy (40:35.446)
Right. mean, it's true because I don't, I don't even tap into any of those things. I don't even know if I would call myself ambitious anymore. I think I just love to create. And, so yeah, it's a completely different. It's a hard thing. You said, how do you tell? And I, I'm like trying to tap into it and it's, it's a really, it's so drastically different. can't even really tap into the old anymore.

so I'm having trouble articulating, like, how do you know? but you know, you'd be drained. You'd feel very drained. I've got to do this. I've got to, you know, how do I do it in what order at what cadence and what timing, you know, it's, very linear. It's very structured. It's very like this, he needs to happen now. And if I don't get it done, that feels very much.

that hustle and motivating and ambition driven versus what you talk about is the flow and speed.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (41:41.056)
Yeah, that's like the accountability and discipline paradigm, right? Because when we are having to force it to happen, then there's some part of us that is not attuned to what it is that we're creating. And over time, that erodes your connection to spirit from my perspective and then results in the experience of burnout.

And I have met so many people who, you and I are like talking about a foreign language. They're like, wait, what? You can just be, you can just want to do things? You could just create from just creating? And, you know, there's a process when you haven't connected with that in a long time that it can be challenging of, okay, how do I find it?

I think you give some really good tips here in how it feels so different. And it's just really bringing the awareness to what is feeling heavy and where am I feeling lit up and how can I do more of that and less, less of listening over here.

Tracy (42:56.726)
Yeah, totally. it is, it is, right? It is, to me, I kind of describe it in this way.

We have a system now, right? And we have a way of operating within it. It's very clear. Where we're going is also another system, and you can't operate the same way in this new system. know, it's like you wouldn't buy Windows software and put it on your Mac and expect it to work.

you know, in the most simple terms. So there's going to be a lot of unlearning, expanding perspectives, consciousness, stepping into places that are going to feel uncertain for a lot of people. But it's,

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (43:57.508)
What's the alternative? What's the alternative to continue doing what we've been doing that is not working?

Tracy (44:03.182)
Well, I I guess it is an alternative, right? I mean, everything's a choice. I think it's just not sustainable. And I think it's pretty clear, you know, that we've run that arc, but I suspect we'd, well, it'll keep, it's not like it's ending tomorrow. So I don't want to make, you know, our discussion to sound like, you know, the world is ending and that's, none of that is happening. I just see it as really exciting.

Because I live in the world of possibility. I don't live in the world of problem solving.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (44:39.29)
Yeah. The other crucial piece of this, you know, when I said earlier, and one of the things that has held me back up until this point about, you know, talking about this like civilizational rebuild, you know, is for so many people that feels so far away or it feels so...

like it's going to take so long for that to happen. And most people are in problem solving mode of like, okay, well, what is my current experience of reality and how do I shift that? However, I wanna tie the concept of what it takes to rebuild civilization back to one of the things that you said around moving from this linear paradigm where if we want to make change in the world, if we want to shift an industry,

That means, okay, we have to take these specific steps and it's gonna take this many people in order to make that happen. And what you are talking about as it relates to what is in flow for you, what is in your genius. The only way to really create that civilizational level recalibration is for leaders to be in the flow, to be...

Tracy (45:38.605)
Yeah.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (46:03.812)
creating from that energy because that is the limitless energy, right? Whatever we create, whatever consciousness, whatever energy we are creating with or in, that is essentially the energetic thread or the frequency of what we are creating. So if we want to create limitless possibility, we need to be in the energy of.

limitless possibility. And that's how we're able to do things in a way that absolutely transcends time.

Tracy (46:41.262)
Totally. mean, time to me is, it's irrelevant. I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but it's kind of, I don't, you know, I think one of maybe the most helpful things to kind of ground this conversation that we've been having is to think about things not in a binary way, right? It's this or that.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (46:47.596)
It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant.

Tracy (47:11.2)
I either do this or I either do that.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (47:58.126)
Yes, one of the practices that I do have clients go through when they're really starting to reconnect with what is that vision that they want to create and how to bring that about is getting in the practice of just breaking that binary thinking. And you can do it in small ways, right? You can do it in the shower when you have a few different options to wash your body with, right?

Instead of thinking, I can use this or that. Or I could wash from head to toe or toe to head. Well, actually, what are all of the other ways that you could watch? Right. It's like giving yourself permission to start practicing. And I usually find when you're not used to it, between the fifth and the seventh level of doing this exploration, that's when you usually start to come up against the limitation.

And if you just sit with it and explore, what else might be possible? What other options might there be? You will find that the ego starts to let loose a little bit, and then all of a sudden, boom, ideas coming, pathways opening, and all of a sudden, it becomes so clear for you. But you gotta be with that discomfort.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (50:23.246)
and they're just sitting there waiting. They were always there. Those pathways were always there, but sometimes it just takes the, you know, expanding to that higher level beyond the binary of this or that options. And then all of a sudden you can see all of these realms of possibility and the abundance that is literally just sitting there waiting. See me, pick me, right? Well,

Tracy, I've so loved having this conversation with you. This has been absolutely amazing and expansive and enlightening and inspiring as well. I wanna give you an opportunity, if there's any last words of wisdom or something that you want to share, I wanna give you an opportunity to do that.

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (52:15.524)
Yeah, the important piece of that cycle as well is that nothing is ever wasted, right? In the cycle of creation, nothing's ever wasted. And so, you know, the pieces, the people, et cetera, that fall also get absorbed, we'll call it, absorbed in the new, right? And the creation of the new.

can be even better than what they had before, especially if we move with that intention for it to be so. Yeah, so amazing. Tracy, where can people find you if they want to connect and learn more about your work, maybe explore how they might collab with you?

Makhosi Hefisah Nejeser (53:26.714)
We will have links to all of those places in the show notes, description boxes, and with that, I will see you next time.