Ep 3 - Is This The Last Bank Of Canada Interest Rate Hike For 2023

Is This The Last Bank Of Canada Interest Rate Hike For 2023? Keep Watching To Find Out Our Thoughts And Predictions! 

Dave Dubbin is a Broker and Senior Vice President Of Sales with Sotheby's International Realty Canada, and leads a real estate team in Toronto's West End. Ken Mazurek Is The Regional Managing Broker For Sotheby's Southwest Ontario. 

Dave Dubbin & Associates is a team of experienced, multi-faceted real estate agents serving the Toronto, Etobicoke & Kingsway areas. With a proven track record of getting results quickly and a direct line of communication at all times, we strive to provide you unmatched results. Whether you are looking to buy or sell residential, investment, multi-family or commercial property, a first time buyer or are looking for property management representation, we have an expert for you. 

The personal opinions expressed herein are solely that of Dave Dubbin & Ken Mazurek and not of Sotheby's International Realty Canada, the Canadian/Toronto Governments or the Toronto Regional Real Estate Board (TRREB) and should not be misconstrued as advice or the basis of an agency relationship whatsoever. Please consult your professional advisor prior to taking action on any decisions relating to the matters discussed in these videos. This communication is not intended to cause or induce breach of an existing agency agreement. This is not financial, legal or real estate advice.

Transcript

Dave: Hey, Toronto, welcome to How's the Market Podcast. I'm Dave. 

Ken: And I'm Ken. Nice to see you again. Everyone. 

Dave: So how's everything going at home with the newborn?

Getting lots of rest? 

Ken: There's no rest happening. No, we're in full survival mode. We have an, eight week old and four and a half year old at the house. So it's it's interesting times to try and balance business and family. But we're hanging in there, buddy.

How's the hockey season been treating you? 

Dave: It's been good. A lot of people fell off going to the gym over the holidays, so need to add that back in. My shifts gets shorter and shorter. , so I think getting cardio might help, but it's all good.

Ken: That's the toughest part, man, is getting that cardio back. It's brutal. 

Dave: The 10 30 game is a little hard to get motivated for. 

Ken: Not the prime time you're looking for at that point. I'm, I am on my way to bed or I am like, yeah, literally trying to put a child to sleep at that point.

Dave: Getting there for 10:30 is fine. It's just the, getting home and staring at the ceiling cuz you're wired after. Yeah. But this week we had a first announcement from the Bank of Canada looking at raising interest rates by 25 basis points. They also offered us some future guidance saying that looks like it's gonna be pausing. Maybe they, they love to dance around it, but this is pretty much what a lot of people are. 

Ken: Yeah, the market was flip flopping between is it gonna be 25 or 50? Especially given previous announcements, no one really wanted to commit to what it was going to be, but 25 basis points was the increase.

It's now at 4.5 as the key lending rate, and it's been 8 straight Bank of Canada meetings with a rate increase. So the pace has been rapid. It's been very fast to get up to 4.5%, but as you said, I think the silver lining, if you wanna look at it, is that there appears to be a pause for the foreseeable future, but obviously there are hundreds of different conditions that go into it.

Early inflation data looks like it might have peaked around 8%, which is lower than some other G7 nations. There is a sense of optimism in that, perhaps the height of inflation is behind us. But once again, with everything happening in the world that could be very short-lived because at the beginning of, what was it 2022, we were talking about, Canadians can expect rates to be low for a long time, and here we are, so..

Dave: Yeah, that statement makes it hard to trust future statements, but I guess take everything with a grain of salt and be open to whatever happens next. I feel like since the start of the year, we've seen consumers or buyers really I don't wanna say confidence came back, but it's like acceptance of current conditions and knowledge that the interest rates probably aren't gonna last here forever. That bay Street's sort of forecasting that it's gonna look better towards the end of the year, moving into 2024. So some more optimism and willingness to reengage in the markets there. 

Ken: Yeah, it's and I think it's just buyers, sellers, everyone, the public in general is, there's a feeling of this is the way it's going to be now, right?

These are the market conditions, this is the monetary policy, this is the interest rate I'm gonna have to be operating within. So it gives you a bit of certainty. Now, whether or not you like it what the rates are, right? That's irrelevant. At least you know what to expect. It's a lot easier to plan, especially major purchases, obviously like a home.

What you feel is a better sense of this will be the rate, this is what I can expect, this is what I can budget with. Whereas for basically all of 2022, it was, what's it going to be next month? What's the rate going to be? What's it going to look like? So it was very difficult to have any type of long-term planning when you're essentially on a month-to-month basis hanging on Bank of Canada rate announcements.

Whereas now, Hopefully there's an exhale. These are the rates, these are the market conditions, and you can operate within them.

Just to build on that, once again, my love of analogy is it's kind if you're planning a road trip, if you know the weather ahead of time, it's a lot easier to plan for your vacation, for your trip, right?

If you're planning to go somewhere tropical and expect sunny skies and you get there and it's five straight days of rain. , if that wasn't what you were expecting, it's going to be very difficult to try and enjoy or make the use of any trip that you're gonna have, right? Say it was like you're driving across the country, right?

I look at Toronto yesterday, the massive snowstorm, right? When you know a massive snowstorms coming, you plan accordingly, right? It's very different than all the sudden something. A big weather system sweeps in quickly, and you don't have much warning, all right? No one can drive. Buses are stuck.

The whole deal. So everyone tried at least their best to stay at home and not get caught in the mess. But once again, it's a lot easier to plan when you know the situation, when you know the environment. And we just haven't had any certainty for the better part of 10 months really. 

Dave: Is that a Toronto thing that everyone freaks out on the first major snowfall?

Ken: The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the people who are like out in the worst storm of the year so far, and no winter tires, and they're sliding around and getting stuck. Never ceases to amaze me. But then again, on the flip side TTC buses weren't able to move either, so go figure at 6 0 1, half a dozen or the other, 

Dave: I just don't remember growing up in Toronto, there being as many sort of snow days encouraging people to work from home. So Ken, you were telling me, you, you attended an RBC event yesterday out in Oakville.

Can you tell us a little bit? 

Ken: Yeah. So the Oakville Chamber of Commerce held a great event with RBC and Ipsos polling, which, basically was a 2023 forecast on what they expect and. Very interesting. It builds into the Bank of Canada rate announcement. There's a bit of a disconnect between what the public is feeling, what Canadians are feeling, and what the economic data is showing.

As I mentioned, R B C is forecasting that yes, we're going to be heading into recession, but they feel it will be relatively mild compared to some of our previous recessions that it looks like we'll be able to stick the soft landing with the possibility of even some growth towards the end of 2023.

So they were quite, maybe optimistic is the wrong word, but it wasn't as doom and gloom as maybe it's been told in the news they feel that peak inflation has been reached around 8% and it's on its way down. They feel that rates will hold steady at this level with even the possibility of rate cuts towards the end of the year, early 2024.

So overall, the employment market is very robust as well. So they felt that overall the economic data was quite promising in the face of all the headwinds, that we're dealing with right now. When the Ipsos polling came out, it was very interesting because it's a very different feeling from what the economic data was saying they were talking about The Canadian's basic fear of the current situation.

I was unaware, but apparently Canada is the fourth most concerned country in the world when it comes to inflation. I had no idea about that. It's somewhere around 54% of Canadians say inflation is, one of their biggest fears and one of the biggest concerns, and part of that they said might be the fact that you have a whole new cohort of buyers.

Essentially you have millennials some Gen X and even some Gen Z that have never. Or operated in a recession before to this magnitude, right? So it's unknown territory. They also talked about, just concerns with like housing costs food costs, gas costs. So it was interesting that the economic data looked more promising and the kind of sentimental data in terms of how Canadians are feeling was a little more negative.

So as we march on in the year, it'll be interesting to see how those diverging viewpoints, meet each other. Is it going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy where we think it's worse than it actually is and we have a downward spiral? Or will people start to potentially see a bit of a silver lining and that things will get better.

The gentleman at Ipsos the way he summed it up was, we've had three years of this pandemic. It feels like we're finally coming out of it and we should be happy, but we aren't, we're concerned because now there's a potential recession looming. Whereas RVC has taken the viewpoint of, yes, there's been a lot of headwinds.

It's been difficult. We've had the pandemic that resulted in employment changes that resulted in lockdowns, but we're coming through it relatively Okay. Compared to other recessions that we've dealt with in the past. 

Dave: And just for everyone, Ipso.

Ipso is an organization , 

Ken: oh, Ipsos, it's a polling company. So a lot of the times when you see polling about political parties, about sentiment on different issues and topics, they're the ones that do it. They basically survey Canadians at really grassroots level, phone calls, interviews, emails, that sort of level.

Dave: So I actually attended a similar RBC presentation in q4 and it was earlier on in q4 and at that point they were optimistic and they were hoping that going into 2024, that inflation would've pretty much been back to the levels of around 2%, three to 2%, something that was more acceptable by the bank in Canada.

Sounds like it's improved on that since then in in just a quarter. 

Ken: Yeah as I said, it was, there's definitely no denying that there will be some difficult tightening ahead of us. They expect a rise in unemployment. Costs for certain goods and services, particularly energy and food are gonna be higher.

They're gonna be above the core inflation numbers. But there is a lot of good news job market as it stands, is incredibly strong right now that a lot of costs that spiked in Covid, certain supply chain and logistical costs have come down.

Certain raw materials such as lumber have come way down. So there is some promise, in the data as much as there will be some hardships. But there is, a bit of a silver lining to it. But once again, you never know until you're in these things. And there's a lot happening in the world, it does give a sense that it's not all doom and gloom out there.

Yes, there's tough times ahead, but there's a bit of a silver lining on the horizon. 

Dave: There are tough times ahead, but we've been through through some tough times already in 2022. 

Ken: And and I think it, it's a matter of perspective too, right?

Especially if you're a younger generation? If you're a millennial, you're a Gen Z, think of a lot of the industries that those demographics were employed in. They might have been in those large layoffs and job losses that happened at the start of covid.

You get support. It looks like we're on the other side and promising. And then it's oh, actually we might be heading toward a recession that's a bit of a double whammy for people who are in that world, right? Whereas , baby boomers or gen Xers more, older demographics, that have been able to work from home, that have been able to keep their employment.

There's a bit of a sense of it's going to be okay. So there is a bit of an age divide among that, but between, how the different generations are viewing the news and the economic data. You can look at it. Either way, it's either good news or bad news.

You right. Bad news, we have a recession coming. Good news is it's hopefully going to be far more mild and not as deep as previous recessions we've 

Dave: had. 

Interesting. There's a lot of bears, lots of bulls out there, and everyone's got their own perspective on it. The media certainly puts their spin on it.

Usually one for each side so that yeah, print an article that will cater to either one. It's hard to figure out what's actually going on. That's one of our goals here is just to bring up to date data and information about kind of boots on the ground, what we see in the news and trying to share that with everyone.

Ken: Yeah and a lot of it depends too on what sector you're in, what your employment has been. Tech was great throughout most of Covid 19 and the pandemic, you're able to work from home. These companies were making record profits.

It was a windfall for them. And now we're on the other side. Where interest rates are less favorable, they're experiencing layoffs. Whereas you don't think of early in the pandemic, people started renovating their homes, like lumber prices went through the roof. Any type of, renovation materials, whether it be appliances or just basic building costs also went through the roof.

Now those have come down. So it's been interesting to really see the ebb and flow in each industry. Depending on where you sit things are either looking better or they might be looking worse. It's a, it's not a, how should we say, like an equal. Recession so to speak, the impact of these rate hikes haven't been equally across all industries.

Dave: It's interesting. I had a couple people make the comment to me, they're looking to do home improvements, renovations, and, they called contractors early on in the pandemic, never heard from them. And two and a half years later, get the phone, call. It's like, sorry, what? You're following up now. Okay. No we had that done. We found somebody who had actually come in, but when you start to see that okay maybe the demand for contractors and renovations isn't the same. So now they're, the follow up, starting again.

It's not 10 people call, their phone doesn't stop ringing. So now they have to go actually and find some of the jobs. You one of the stats I've been meaning to, to check, I haven't looked at it in a while, but it's a lot of people will look at the number of building permits out there as a leaning indicator where real estate market's going.

We'll have to check that out for next time. 

Ken: Yeah, we can pull up that data and yeah, to your point, if you tried to add a swimming pool during the pandemic, it was impossible, right? Like you were waiting, people just said No. Same with contractors, you're basically bidding for services.

It was similar to being in a bidding war for a house with a contractor to get some work done and now, we're on the other side of it looks like we're starting to see that change. Obviously if you're using, say like a heloc, a home equity line of credit, or you are using, a credit card or any type of savings, A renovation, the interest rate, might make you change your opinion on that.

If you're gonna be paying essentially triple or quadruple on your borrowing costs to do a renovation, that makes a big difference in your plans. 

Dave: Absolutely. We're nearing the end of January here as the performance at the brokerage level across southern Ontario here.

Have you. As many transactions as you expected, have you seen more? Have you seen less? 

Ken: It's been interesting. It's been almost a tale of two halves for January. The first two weeks were probably, as we would've expected, it was slower. People were coming back from holidays. There was an uncertainty when are we gonna get started with a house search?

When do we wanna put our house back on the market? Had they tried in the fall and been unsuccess? or, sellers had just been waiting. When's the right time? Do we do it next year? So it was quite slow for the first two weeks, relatively speaking, in terms of sales volume and activity. It's quite different the past two weeks, we've seen a massive uptick in the number of showings. We've seen a huge uptick in offers, right? Properties are getting multiple offers, properties are getting 20, 30, 40 showings. So it's been quite a surprising and interesting observation to just see that drastic change.

I'm not saying that, okay, the market is gonna go back to 2021 levels and it's gonna be crazy and let's let it rip. I'm just simply making the observation that. People are out looking again. People are out buying, people are looking, to move and to buy and sell.

I equate it to I think we said in one of the other episodes, like life goes on at some point. If I've had a kid speaking of someone who's just had one, your house, eventually you outgrow your space and there's only so long you can delay that move for. People are getting married, divorces, a family member passes and you have an estate.

A new job and there's only so long you can delay, making a change for these major life events. And I think especially now that there's a feeling or a sentiment that the rates are gonna stay pretty stable for the foreseeable future now is the time. So that's been a big shift.

Is that similar to what you're seeing? I know you and your team rather doing showings, you have listings on the go. Is that kind of what you're experiencing in the market as well? 

Dave: Absolutely we're I think last week we wrote three deals and some of the buyers, some of the properties they were looking at, I think went like to see a handful of properties with the different buyers.

And then, probably 60, 70% of the property we saw, with we went after one secured it conditionally and the majority of their properties all got offers. And a lot of them went into a conditional period as well. So really seeing buyer confidence return back to the market.

You know, it's interesting. I think we always see a bit of an uptick at the start of the year with the, Okay. New Year's resolution. Okay. Alright. Let's actually get this done. So let the holidays end. Let's get the kids back to school. Let me get back to work. Okay. Gimme a week. All right, let's get into it. Let's get it done. Cuz now sounds as good time as. 

Ken: Yeah. And one thing I'm seeing too is as the buyers move off from the sidelines as they go from observing and whenever you're gonna get in, now they've jumped back in and they're willing to transact, they're willing to purchase.

It's a bit more of a restraint and a cautious approach, but at least they're willing to engage now. That's what I find has been the big difference is even in the second half of 2022 from July all the way to December. There were still showings on properties, right? If we looked at the broker base stats at some point we'll pull 'em up and we can share them with everyone.

Broker Bay is the online booking system that we use to book showings for properties. Register offers, the showing activity, the number of off or showings booked on properties was fairly stable. People were going, it was just the offers weren't the same level. They weren't following the same activity levels as showings.

Whereas now we're actually seeing people saying, okay, listen, I'm not gonna go crazy. I'm not gonna bid five, $600,000 over asking and making an unconditional offer with a 30 day close. But they're saying, I'm willing to put an offer in on this property. If I feel it's a good price, if I feel it's good value let's submit something.

So that's why homes are seeing, five, ten offers, on them these days. There was a property, that another one within our brokerage . It had a set offer date. It ended up getting almost 50 showings in three days. And, I ended up having a preemptive, a bully bid on it to sell it.

A couple of other agents I've spoken with in different pockets of the city, they're going on showings and, before they even get their foot in the door, they're getting the notification that a property's been sold. or they're competing with, I've heard as much as 15 offers. And once again, is this a little blip in the short term or is it a longer term trend that will wait to flesh out?

But it's definitely noticeable and I'm seeing it with the mortgage brokers I'm speaking with lawyers, I'm speaking with. They're seeing an uptick in their business and their volume as well. And I'm, like I said, I'm sure it's the same for you, right? You've secured a few proper. And as you say, it's a conditional offer.

It's not the craziness of 2021, but your clients are willing to now take that step and offer on a property and proceed with a purchase. 

Dave: And to actually conduct a transaction. How real estate's properly meant to be done. Hey, I get to do the home inspection. I get to check to see with my lender that, it actually appraises and that everything's gonna be okay. So you shift from the crazy markets to really slow and now start to see transactions, I think there's a number of factors, that we talked about that have buyers come to the table and start to bring offers.

We still see some homes out there that, the ones that are overpriced yeah they're starting to come off and, the buyers might actually start to come up and get that deal where both parties are slightly uncomfortable, which I always find is sort of, the best way to get a deal and the most fair place to be.

Ken: Yeah, and I'm sure you probably heard this question a ton in 2021. It was the question you asked after you saw any property was, okay, what's it gonna go for? Like, how much is this gonna cost? It's listed at X, what's it gonna go for? And it was anyone's guessing game.

The big change I've seen or heard, anecdotally from a lot of, as I said, agents across the province is buyers are now asking you know, what do we think is a fair price? What can we possibly negotiate this to? So it's a big change in psychology, but it's a welcome one, as you said, right?

It's a reasonable one of, okay, they're listed at X. What do we think the delta is that we could actually get a deal done? How can we put this together? And they're willing to be a bit more creative sellers too, right? Okay, I might have to lower my price a little bit to get a deal done, but maybe I can, do a lease back and stay on the property for a few months while I'm searching if I decide to sell first . Maybe we'll do some repairs to keep the price up. We'll take care of some little issues in the property so that they're done with the buyers moving. We are seeing more of that tier point, that traditional negotiation that happens pretty much in the rest of the world, outside of Toronto, these past few years.

Dave: I've had people mention to me, Hey, is the spring market here? And it's been so hard to navigate whether, when the spring market starts over the last few years. I t's not been that bad to be on the market in January and February because you're going against the grain, and if you're priced well and you're prepared for market and you're the only shining object out there, you're probably gonna get a lot of tension.

Ken: That's just it. As much as we talk about the slowdown in the market, and I know a big focus, which I understand is sales. How many sales have happened every month across, the GTA. How many properties have actually sold? Listings are, basically 20 year lows for the past six months straight.

When you consider, if listings are at 20 year lows, of those 20 listings, how many are gonna meet the criteria that I'm looking for? The right neighborhood, the right property type, the right. , it starts to get even smaller and smaller, so now it's to the point of, I wouldn't say it's FOMO, that fear of missing out anymore.

But it is definitely buyers saying, I'm worried because there's only one or two really great properties on the market right now, and I'm sure anyone else who's has a similar search criteria is also going to be looking at those two properties right now. You're limited by choice.

You can only buy what's for sale, essentially. There's no more magical housing showing up. There's nothing gonna be appearing outta nowhere. It's all Okay. What's on mls? What's selling? I remember in one of our earlier shows you talked about the exclusive market. Are you still seeing that?

Dave: I was just gonna ask you, I know in our office we had one fairly large off market deal come together. They've been working on for a while. And there's actually some very luxury homes that have been put out as well off market. So we're starting to see more and they've also seen the hybrid where it was listed for sale and now, , it's listed for lease, but if you're still interested for sale, let's call the agent. Our price is gonna be this and there's not gonna be much room off that, but, we're shifting directions, we're still open. We're still listening. 

Ken: Yeah. And that's been a big change too. In the years passed, i f sellers essentially didn't get their price or what they felt, was a good price for their home, they just waited till the market caught up with them. We were rising exponentially. And so they just said, okay, if I can't get it in the spring, I'll try again in the fall. If I don't get in the fall, try again next spring. We could spend a whole episode talking about that. The pros and cons are the faults of that strategy, but now we're seeing a big difference where they're saying, okay, if I'm not gonna get my price let's put it for lease.

You're getting a whole new section of people who never intended to be landlords becoming them because they feel, okay, let's ride out this uncertainty that's in the market right now. So we're seeing a lot more leases and once again, that's constraining the inventory and supply of all these properties that might have been for sale a year or two years ago, they're now just being listed as leases, as properties for rent. And that's a significant portion of the market that's inventory that's not being put onto the MLS for sale. 

Dave: I think an interesting segment that we'll see is the tail end of that.

We start to see that, in March last year, March, April. So those properties that didn't sell, that ended up getting leased and now, coming up to a year.

Great point.

Are we gonna start to see a surplus of those tentative properties as the least term comes up, start to hit the market?

Ken: Yeah, that's a great point. That's cuz yeah, that was really when it started, that was when the transition March, April, may was the start of that transition when interest rate announcements started really putting a damper on the market and it made that really acute 180 turn.

And yeah, we're hitting that one year point. So are these people gonna renew? Are they gonna try to sell again? Perhaps we should spend an episode talking about, what it's like to sell a tenanted property, because it is a very different proposition if there's a tenant in place as opposed to you, the owner or a vacant home.

Dave: It certainly adds extra factors to it. 

Ken: The funny thing, in talking to some agents, is, my clients are thinking of instead of selling it, they wanna lease it. Do they wanna be a landlord by accident or circumstance?

For some people it's a great fit. It works out. They're able to keep the property. They have a great tenant. Others aren't fully aware of the risks. Being a landlord, it's a business.

If you're not in the business of being a landlord, do you want to become a landlord? That's why there's tons of property management companies out there because there are a lot of nuances to navigating the tenant landlord relationship, the laws, the regulations. It isn't something I encourage people to do lightly.

It's if you don't wanna be a landlord or you don't intend on being one, probably not the best thing. But so far we are seeing more people take that route than I maybe would've initially expected. 

Dave: The popularity of becoming a landlord and real estate investment has really took off over the last I wanna say, even prior to Covid. So we'll say five years. One of the things that the gurus always push on is real estate investment. And, start with one, however you want to do it, whether it be an Airbnb, arbitrage or a traditional go after a triplex and build your way up the landlord ladder essentially.

Ken: Yeah, it was something that definitely took off. And when you're in a rate of very low interest rates it was a lot more manageable. I also remind people a lot of times when they're seeing as you're saying the TikTok, Instagram, Facebook videos about, oh, this is how you become a landlord and get rich, it's, where is this person based out of? Because then you see, their deals and it's like a $70,000 home somewhere in like the Southern US. You're not buying a $70,000 property here in Canada. They just don't really exist for the most part. So the capital requirements are a little bit different here.

Dave: Absolutely. We're both landlords like I ask everyone who's who's in real estate sales, tell me some stories. I'm sure you've seen some stuff while, yeah. As a landlord I'm sure you've had some interesting stories. Both funny and both terrifying.

Ken: Yeah, and once again, it comes with the business. I've been very blessed. I've had absolutely wonderful tenants. We've had a great relationship. For me the biggest part of that business of being a landlord is you're in the client relationship business.

My tenants are my clients and my job is to make sure they have a really wonderful home that they enjoy, and I'm willing to make extra financial investments. And extra time and effort to ensure that happens. Not all landlords do that, and not all tenants reciprocate. It's a very nebulous complex industry with a lot of nuance to it, and yeah, a lot of good and a lot of bad and a lot of difference even between jurisdictions. If you're a landlord in Alberta, it's very different from being a landlord in Ontario. The rules and regulations, a lot of them are provincial, so it can have a drastic impact on how you operate your business and how you operate as a landlord.

Dave: Even here within Toronto, the age of the building has a major factor on it too. So there's so many different variables. You really have to be willing to learn all those work with professionals that can, that educate you on them and explain the differences. Or you outsource somebody like a property management company that can help.

Ken: Absolutely. If you want to invest in real estate, but you don't want to be a landlord either make sure you have a great property manager or just invest in a reit, a real estate investment trust and just don't even be part of it and don't get your name on title at any point. The more we talk about this, we should definitely do a whole episode just on being a landlord and kind of the pros, cons, what to look for because, once again there are challenges if you are a landlord, if you have investment properties when you're purchasing or maybe you're trying to move your primary residence. It's something that often gets overlooked by a lot of people. If you are on title for an investment property and you know you got your primary residence and say it's one or two investment properties, if you're looking to sell your primary residence, maybe upgrade to a larger home. That debt obligation from those investment properties that's on there. There's a lot of moving pieces to it. So we'll definitely have to put together a really tailored episode just for this conversation. 

Dave: I'll share a quick story of what I call my worst day of being a landlord. So the property had a front porch to it. Wood front porch, and. A smell started to become more and more present. So I looked under it and there's a whole bunch of just garbage and trash left there. So I think I ended up calling one 800 junk or one of those companies to come and remove it cuz you know, they're great.

You just point and everything's gone. And so they took out, I think, Five or six garbage bags and they said, Hey listen, we got everything out there except for the raccoon carcass. It's oh, okay. I couldn't see anything cuz it was all under this construction rubble. So I had to crawl under there with a shovel and

Ken: Rolling up the sleeves and getting after I love it. 

Dave: Yeah. Yeah. And try not to lose my lunch while doing it, but getting the hands dirty was was on that one. For that being my worst thing that I've ever had to deal with I consider myself very fortunate.

Ken: Yeah. I've seen one where working as a property manager for clients a couple years ago. Tenant says, I think that, something wrong with the toilet. Do you mind having, a plumber coming over and taking a look? Yeah, no problem. Get over there. And the bathroom on the second floor was situated above where the kitchen is cause of the plumbing stock and just, Pendant lights in the kitchen and the pot lights there is just sewage flying.

It's what you have to deal with. It's part of the risk. I'll never forget that one. Just walking in and there's just Niagara Falls coming from pot lights into the kitchen from the bathroom upstairs. I was like, okay, let's I, let's turn off the water. Let's not stand here, guys. Let's try and mitigate this as much as we can. 

Dave: I had a pipe burst too, but fortunately the the basement was all was all tiled. So the, there wasn't actually any damage. 

Ken: Want any damage? Yeah. 

Dave: Yeah. Shall we wrap it up here? 

Ken: Yeah, let's wrap it up.

Dave: Thanks for tuning in. If you can do us a favor, hit the like button, share with a friend, add a comment below, it'd be greatly appreciated. And we look forward to seeing you next time. Cheers. 

Ken: Thank you so much everyone, have a great one.