Call Me Limbo
Call Me Limbo is your weekly dose of comedic therapy where pop culture and politics get tossed in a blender with personal stories, improv games, and zero chill. Hosted by Dai and David—two queer best friends with more opinions than filter—the show tackles everything from reality TV and music videos to capitalist hellscapes and Bad Bunny’s underwear.
It’s entertainment with a little revolution on the side.
Sometimes you’ll laugh until you cry. Sometimes you’ll cry until you’re organizing a union. Either way, we’re here for the drama, the joy, and the work of building a better world—with jokes. Always with jokes.
We believe the personal is political, but also… pop culture is too damn fun to ignore. So whether you’re here for the Disney Channel wand impressions or a fiery takedown of billionaires—welcome. You’ve found your people because when they go low.....we go lower. So, Call Me Limbo!
Call Me Limbo
Call Me Kinky & Consenting with Nick/Nicole Castro
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This week, Dai and David are joined by Nick/Nicole Castro, a non-monogamy and kink expert who founded New Worlds Together. The threesome chat about Liberated Relationships, desires, chosen family, capitalism, consumption, asexuality, aromanticism, porn R&D, fisting, flogging, chosen family, safety, consent, love, and much much more! Send a shirtless pic and choose your safe word because it's about to get kinky!
Heads Up: This episode is intended for mature audiences since we talk about some spicy topics!
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of your favorite podcast.
SPEAKER_03It's your boy Day. And I'm David, and together we want to get freaky with you. This is Call Me Limbo. Today we are joined by an incredibly special guest. Someone who is my friend. Someone who is a Patreon member who we are so thankful for. Someone so great. A cat parent of two kiddies named Revolution and Comrade. So this is why this is why our guests today and I are friends. I have mentioned on the show before that I have been taking a consensual non-monogamy class called Liberated Relationships. And Nick is the co-creator and co-facilitator of that class. And I'm going to read their bio. So, yes, Nick slash Nicole Castro, she they is a genderqueer, bisexual, biracial, polyam, neurodivergent, trans queerling who brings a lens of embodiment and mindfulness to study violence used as communications. As a relational communication expert with New Worlds Together, Nick helps individuals and groups align their intention and their impact in the world. They seek to make the revolution sustainable through co-created spaces that invite and teach people how to practice new nonviolent forms of self-expression across their relationships and community organizing. They delight in finding spirituality and magic in all things. In her rest time, she reads sci-fi and fantasy, practices Tai Chi, and rides her motorcycle ghost. So welcome to the podcast behind the microphone.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Nicole Castro. I'm so freaking excited to be here. Like this is behind the curtain. This is the dream. I'm here. I made it. You did it peaked.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And then now there's another peak to clutch. Always more peaks. More valleys. We're in Colorado. And so we're we're maybe we've done a 13er. Now it's onto the 14er. Oh god. I I'm 14,000 foot mountains.
SPEAKER_01I'm always one of those people that I'm on the dating apps and they're like, we go hiking and snowboarding. And I'm like, left. Like, I need the people who uh want to like get cozy. Like, I can I can go for the hikes, we'll go find the waterfalls, but like um I will cheerlead them when they go do the 14er and I will have takeout ready for them when they get back. Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love this. I've done, I think, one 14er and we drove to the top. Okay, that's right. We drove to the top, and then there was like a hundred foot climb, like right after that. And then I took a picture with the sign. So brilliant. Yes. So yes. I emulate that. Yes. Well, we wanted to wrap up Pride Month by talking about something that like Day and I don't generally talk about. So we wanted to bring an expert in, someone who we perceive as an expert, to talk about non-monogamy and kink. So I'm so excited about this conversation. I'm a little giddy about this conversation.
SPEAKER_00This is an adult episode. So if you are not an adult, please exit stage left right now. Um, I know that we have sent certain kids. There are, I mean, so many of our episodes are G for general, but this one is for the adults in the room. So this is your moment. Don't say we didn't warn you.
SPEAKER_03That's right. So yes. Well, Nick, I've learned a lot. I've I've learned so much about non-monogamy, more than I ever thought that I would know through your liberated relationships course. And I have I have loved that. And I've learned it's it's really rooted in a lot of attachment, which I think is really interesting. And I've learned a lot about kind of my own forms of of self-attachment. But I am curious if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about like what is non-monogamy and like what, or I guess what does it mean to you, just for people who might not necessarily be familiar with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So today in 2025, uh, non-monogamy has kind of become an umbrella term. Uh, it's going to include everything that is outside your kind of realm of traditional two-person, monogamous, exclusive relationships. So non-monogamy being the big umbrella then includes things like everything from swinging and an open relationship, um, having a third in the bedroom to polyamory, having full-fledged multiple other romantic uh connections. So it really it's it's your big umbrella term. It's gonna include everything that is, you hear it in the name, not monogamy. So non-monogamy is everything else. And some people like to call it multi-amory, some people prefer polyamory because they don't want to center monogamy even in the term. Yeah. But today at least, it's still the biggest umbrella term for everything that does not prioritize one diet of people, one one duo as like the the be-all end-all of what a relationship can and should be.
SPEAKER_03I love that. I am curious too, how you think, because I was like, I I again I've learned a lot about just it's it's rooted in relationships and everything is relationships. Absolutely. And so, like, I'm curious, like, can non-romantic relationships practice or benefit from some of these teachings about non-monogamy? Because I was like, I I I have shared with Dave knows this about me. I've shared with you in the in the course. I don't know if I've talked about it on the podcast actually, but I was like, I've been really exploring a little bit more about like aromanticism and what that means. And like, I'm I'm not, I know I'm not asexual, but aromantic is evidently on the form of or on the the range of the a of the asexual scale. And so like I have found some of these lessons useful in my sort of day-to-day relationships, but I'm curious how some of these teachings about non-monogamy could show up in non-romantic relationships or non-romantic partnerships. Can they?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, so much. Okay. I have thoughts on this for days. Yeah. Um, Dave, what's your experience with all this real quick before I just start like monologuing?
SPEAKER_00No, I think this is great. So I was like, I uh don't identify as non-monogamous, so I don't think I've ever talked on the podcast. But so this is really exclusive. If you're listening to this episode, wow. This is an exclusive.
SPEAKER_01But not too exclusive. That's monogamy.
SPEAKER_00But I do identify um on the asexuality spectrum, um, which is something I've never talked about in a public setting. So this is interesting. But I I don't necessarily identify I don't identify this with like non-monogamy, but I said how I wanted to approach this episode was really in like a very good faith. I think it's such an important thing to talk about because we have such a spectrum in the community and it can make dating complex, it can make things, especially I think as a gay, a gay male, like it's really hard dating because it's like, oh, I'm on the app. It's like, oh, then you meet this person and then you find out that they're in a relationship. You're like, wait, you didn't tell me that before, like I'm really confused. So I think it's important to have these conversations because I think so often you can read things that come across very negative on both sides, like you know, people who are in non-monogamy having a real disdain for monogamy and vice versa. And I think, like, no matter what someone's decision to do anything is, I tell people all the time you don't have to agree or like everything that people do, but you can respect their freedom and their choice to do it. And so I was having this conversation telling a friend, I was like, Oh, I'm getting gonna have to do this interview. I'm really excited because I was like, I want to hear and provide a platform for people just to get knowledge about like what is it like, because not everybody, you don't you might not not be aware that other people around you are practicing it or that there are different forms, like even learning about my own sexuality when I finally landed on the asexual asexual spectrum. I struggled with using that label because I always just thought that asexuality meant you have no sex drive ever. And that's being that that's a form of it that is on the scale, but it is a gradient scale, and that is not true. So the more that I understood that, I was like, oh, oh, okay. And then, like, you know, then realizing that like I'm a side that I didn't know there was a word for that, and then having these conversations with people, some people still you know mock or make fun of, whatever, that is what it is, but it was important for me to have language around it because of the fact that otherwise I always struggle to communicate with someone, and then sometimes those people can internalize it as a deficiency in themselves, versus like actually, no, I I realize that I'm not actually it's no reflection of you. I need to figure out how I find joy or interest in these things, or maybe it's other things that I find interest in and we do blah blah blah blah blah. So that's my long-winded answer to to put all my cards on the table. Okay, I can't.
SPEAKER_01I love it, I love it so much though. Thank you for that, and especially since it's an exclusive. Um it really is what you said, not too exclusive.
SPEAKER_03First reveal, I like that.
SPEAKER_00First reveal, yeah. Because I almost wrote an article about it, and then I was like, no, I don't want to do that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I have felt that way many times over time. Um, like, oh, that's that's still mine. I'm not ready for this to like be for the whole world. This is still just for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and doesn't make it any good. Who knows? We'll see.
SPEAKER_01Again, a lot of things die on the editing for. Um, and I you know, just shout out to words, like the whole idea that words matter. And like, I but and and I also really resonate with people who are like, the kids these days have so many words, and and I'm like, I I feel both sides in my soul, right? Like, there's the part of me that's like, okay, cool, like there's uh there's new words every day for uh sexuality and gender and all these things, and they can be very difficult to keep up with. And at the same time, like if you think about a garden in bloom, like you want all those plants to come up, and like probably not all of them are gonna stay. Like, I do believe that some of these words will kind of shake out as we figure out which ones fit best and which ones like you know, it's it's it's a necessary part of the process, and we are just kind of in that that flurry of growth that is definitely a little uh intimidating. So um we're gonna use the words that feel best for us today. But I so that's the whole reason that um my project with Emily Graham is titled Liberated Relationships. It's it you doesn't talk about non-monogamy, right? Like the the core of it at least, because it's about liberating our relationships from everything. And I don't give a fuck if it's monogamy or non-monogamy, I just want you to be free. And so all of this is about how do you drop the shoulds? How do you re-center in yourself, which is this scary, scary process? Because what if you want things that don't match with the life you've already built? What if you want things that will be disruptive to people you love? Like, it is scary. And so, how do you start to liberate yourself in a way that doesn't do more damage? Because I'm not here to rip away safety blankets, like that's that's how we get trauma. I'm here to be like, hey, here's some shiny, cool new things, and if you like them, you can you can play with this fidget basket, right? Like, here's here's some things to try on, and if they're good for you, cool. And if not, like awesome. Like the end of the day, it's gonna be how do you find yourself and how do you enjoy like the self of you that is reflected back from your loved ones? Like, that's what we're like, god damn, that's what we're here on this human earth to do. So, like finding that alignment, and I think uh this this will kind of play into the the values and things that I think people get, like the gifts of non-monogamy that can be offered to monogamous folk or anyone else. But it it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what form you're um expressing as long as you're expressing yourself, right? That's that's gonna be what it is. So the first thing I wanna like the the way I want to anchor this idea that there are gifts from the non-monogamy community that everyone can benefit from, including monogamous folk, is to kind of contextualize it. If you think about how we've thought about like friends and like best friends in the past, like, because I'm gonna start talking about like the value of platonic connections, right? Yeah. Um, in the past, friends were kind of just like practice partners and they were kind of just like placeholders. Because it was always this idea that, like, well, once you find your person, you know, you know, a lot of you you have that friend that when they start dating, they disappear. I know that person. Yeah. We have had those people, right? And so it's it's never been super explicit, but there's been that kind of energy of like, oh, well, this is just until we get to the next person. It doesn't mean people in marriages don't have friends, but there is kind of this energy of a hierarchy, right? Um, you might have it's gonna be a best friend and then the rest of your friends, and then once you find a partner, they jump ahead of the best friend. And again, everyone finds their own versions of this, but there's still this idea that like that romantic sexual connection is gonna jump the line. And the big thing that I want to focus on here too is capitalism. Always. I'm surprised we've gotten this far in without me bringing up capitalism.
SPEAKER_00Honestly.
SPEAKER_01So I know like what podcast even is this? Right. Um but the the capitalism benefits from you having a monogamous relationship and being just focused on the nuclear family because it locks in resources. So things that you would be able to do, it means that every every house on this block has their own set of Ryobi power tools instead of just borrowing from your neighbor, right? Instead of having those community gatherings, you everyone has to go out and have their own, I guess we're just on power tools, lawnmower, weed eater.
SPEAKER_00A first time for everything on CML.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I I don't I I am your like power tool gay. That's like we need one, I just need one a really nice 40 volt uh electric lawnmower. Yeah, if anyone needs to borrow it. And so I like, but capitalism also just wants you to consume, right? And so they're not wanting your first love to even be your partner, they want your first love to be consumption. And if you are unfulfilled and sad, what are we gonna do? We're gonna buy. I'm like, I'm I'm really upset. I need to change some diet things to make my body feel better. And I'm like, but I like Cheetos, right? Like, these are my emotional support things, right? And so the way the places that we have found fulfillment often is in consumption. And I'm not again, I'm not here to take away those safety blankets because I have my own, but that that first love is always encouraged to be consumption, and then like people can come after that. So the if we're whole and satisfied because we've tapped into our desires, and this is where kink and non-monogamy have this beautiful overlap. It's like if we have really tapped into our desires and we really know we've been curious and we've tried things on and we've we've played in it and we've made decisions for ourselves, I'm I'm not as vulnerable to advertising and my my heart is full from other things. I don't fill it with whatever whatever mindless consumption might might be available to me. And don't don't get me wrong, I still love Instagram and these other things, but it's not what I turn to for those types of support anymore. And it's it's additive, not like my it's it's not one of my anchors. So I think that's that's the huge thing. And then like I just I just and this is disruptive, right? So like non-monogamy and kink are disruptive because you are tapping into desires that will buck the whole system. Chosen family bucks the whole system, and that's why it's put into the same taboo category as of kink, is like don't know yourself. If you know yourself, you will wake up to the fact that this is fucked up. You will wake up to the fact that this system hurts. I've been thinking about this a lot, especially in electoral politics, which is not one of my favorite spaces historically. Yeah. Um but you know, people are like, oh, why do they vote against themselves? It's like, because it hurts to drop the illusion. It hurts to drop everything you it's the sunk cost fallacy if you want to bring economics into it. But like I have invested my whole life into the pursuit of this career, this relationship, this family, this version of myself. And when I feel that little, that little tingle on the edge of my awareness that says I want something else, holy fuck, that is scary. What would it mean to acknowledge that that is true? And so that's like a big thing I want people to like take away from today is like anytime I encourage you to like tap into what you want, it doesn't mean you have to go there. Right? Like realizing and accepting that you want something and changing your whole life or your life at all to go for it. Two totally separate things, right? You you get to decide which ones you go for and just kind of peeking open the door and being like, oh fuck, I really do want to be tied up to that bed real bad. Like, doesn't mean that we're gonna just like throw away your whole life to do that, right? Like, oh man, like what would it be like to be like someone's sex toy for a whole day? Like, you're not just gonna like like again, you can you can be like, oh, that's that's a little appealing, and then not do anything with it. You can just just a little, little, little bit of acceptance that says, I'm kind of drawn to that. Yeah. Right? So I could go on in this direction, or we can pin it.
SPEAKER_00I had a question, if I can, I think a good follow-up question, because I think, I think sometimes, or maybe one of the critiques that people would have, and I think you would be great to answer, is like, I like the idea that you said, you know, under capitalism, we're always consuming, we're always chasing the next best thing. So I guess some critics would argue, do you think that non-monogamy, especially in how sometimes it's practiced or marketed, can accidentally mirror that mindset? Like, why what I have isn't enough, there must be more out there. I think that tends to be the framing. So is that something I would love for you to address that because I actually think personally, I actually think we align with how you view capitalism in terms of our relationships as a whole, because I do think we have decided to prioritize things over people, and we therefore hurt people to get things. And I think that no matter what type of dynamic it is, that's really destructive. And I think it's still possible to do that even in a monogamous relationship. But I guess some people some would argue that is non-monogamy or as the umbrella we're defining it, doing that on steroids. What would you say?
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's a fantastic question. Um, it really comes back to there's a joke in non-monogamy that love is infinite but time is not. Um, I actually think that in places where people are being true to themselves and really valuing the co-creation of whatever kind of dynamic they have with their other people, it's like they know that you you that consuming on steroids is not sustainable, right? Like um, I always remember this guy I went on a couple dates with. Uh great first date idea. He told me to meet him in a Walmart parking lot sketch during the day, but he rolls up with a pack of googly eyes, and we went through Walmart and put googly eyes on everything we could find. Wow, it was hilarious. I learned a lot about him.
SPEAKER_00I am I am a supporter of like do mundane air errand things, like go to the grocery store, talk about things in the aisle. I definitely think you can learn a lot about a person.
SPEAKER_01It's it's fun, it's it's you have something to there's something to rub against, there's friction, right? And that's where you get contrast, and you can like you can see what uh it's it's great. Anyhow, quick he was promising a lot and not delivering, and very quickly I find out that he I knew he was baby poly, that some people call it that. Um where you're brand new to polyamory.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_01Um I've heard it also like baby kink. It's just like kind of a and again, like it's not meant to infantilize, it's become a shorthand of like just new to the community. And you know, you can some some people like it, some people don't. Again, you can self-identify in if you like. But you know, I I knew that about him, and then he wasn't showing up, and suddenly I realize I learned he's been dating eight people, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so busy man.
SPEAKER_01I don't I don't know. Ty, I hope you're doing well.
SPEAKER_00Um we're gonna bleep that out for the legal, but yes.
SPEAKER_01So the the big thing here is like if you are really doing this in a balanced way, you know that you only have so much time for so many types of connections. And some people so polysaturated is a word that gets thrown around a lot. That simply means that like I am I am booked up, right? Like, I I am saturated. There is no more room for anything else. It it's a science word. Like if a towel is saturated with water, it won't soak up anymore, right?
SPEAKER_00Um that nutritionist tells me about my polysaturated fats is usually what she's referring to.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, that's that's outside my wheelhouse. Um so I don't want to think about nutrition right now. I love my Cheetos. Me too. Yeah. But so there are responsible ways to go about thinking about your time and energy. And I like to break response responsibility up is like your ability to respond. Like, what is your ability to respond? So, like, I think a lot of people, because I think a lot about codependence, like a lot of people think some things are their responsibility when it's not. Like, that's actually not within my ability to respond to, but then like also capacity, right? And so I think that idea. Of non-monogamy is obviously a pejorative one. It's one that kind of looks down on it in a way because it comes with that energy of like, these relationships aren't even important to you. You just have a bajillion of them. Um, and I'd say in practice, people are if they if they try that version, they're gonna very quickly realize it's not good for them or anyone else. And I've seen a lot of people settle into like two, two and a couple play partners. And I really like that the community also has words like um solo poly. Uh this is someone solo poly.
SPEAKER_00Solo polyamory. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um this was one that really resonated with me during the class. Okay, yeah, I'm curious. I'm I don't know this word.
SPEAKER_01So it's someone that uh deeply prioritizes their relationship with their themselves first and kind of puts the so the solo being themselves into the polyamory, right? And it's it's a really powerful term, especially for people who have often put others first. That's one reason that like it's a term that resonates with myself. And so there there are when you're doing that calculus of like how many partners I can have, that is part of it. It's like, am I being a good partner to myself? And this is one of those gifts of non-monogamy to everyone that I believe is so, so important is valuing your platonic connections, right? So when you're doing that calculus of how many viable energy hours do I have a day, how many spoons do I have? It really is gonna be about it, you have to include everything, right? Like, and I think that's part of the gift is like it's not like real your relationships or your friendships come from a separate well. Like this is all coming from your energy. And so, how do I value my relationship with my garden? How do I value my relationship with myself? How do I value my relationship with my pets, right? Have you started dating so many people that you stopped playing with your cat? Right. Like, and that's so so that that combines two of my favorite things about this is that like it allows you to value your platonic relationships as much as your romantic ones, right? I really like you, we've heard date your friends. And I think that like to take it a step further is like to really like deeply love your friends, right? Like I have gone to my friend's house and I dress up, I bring flowers. And I think I think we're scared to let ourselves love like the way they wrinkle their nose when they're chopping onions, or like the way that they laugh about a certain like like really love them because that's so that's so that can be so close to what some people feel is like a romantic love. And it's like, oh, am I am I cheating on someone by in by appreciating someone this deeply? And so uh non-monogamy really allows us to open to different forms of intimacy and just appreciate them. And again, it's not like, oh, I kind of fell in love with you when I like the way David pauses to like scurch his nose is adorable. And I can acknowledge that and not be like, oh god, I'm gonna try and pursue David as a romantic partner, right? Like I can just have that little moment and continue with my life. And the other part that's really like decolonial and re-indigenizing is that it I made a point to bring up the garden example there because like let's bring non-human species back into this, let's bring the land back into this. Like it really, again, when we get away from the crusade of one romantic sexual partner, suddenly all of our relationships are sacred and it goes so far beyond humans. And that is so important and so powerful.
SPEAKER_00If I can, I really like there were two things I would love to pick up on because it resonated with me. I think I'm finding myself in this conversation. Like, where is the overlap and the bridges that I think we really should be having conversations? And one is about the sense of community, going back to like kind of the decolonial things. I often feel that what you mentioned about friends and dating your friend and having that desire, that is something that is often missed in monogamous relationships, and it's something that I don't think they realize that you can have a deep fulfilling relationship with a friend. And it doesn't have to be romantic or sexual, but I think we have this weird, because I think back in the day, I think Esther Perel talks about this relationship expert a lot where she says, we've made our partner our everything, and that is too much for any person to do. I said, you know, I'm a believer in God. So I was like, if I otherwise I'm dating Jesus, and that's too much of a responsibility for anyone. You, my friend, my partner doesn't have to like everything that I like. They can have a life outside of me that has overlaps, that has interests and things like that. But I have friends that love the music that I love. I have friends that love to talk about politics, I have friends that want to do these things, and that's okay. And I think once we got away from having a more robust or full garden of people, creatures, land, etc., we force one thing on one person, and then it builds a lot of resentment over and over and over again because this person can't fulfill that need because it's impossible. And so that I found really interesting. But something else you said, you kind of mentioned it earlier, and so I kind of want to get the distinction where you talked about the need for oh, so it's solo polyamory, uh, which I think did I say that right? Solo amory, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Um, solo poly is the try.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because I really like this. And I think this is something that is important to distinguish because of I would want to know what is the difference between like a liberated relationship where someone is really centered in their truth, and then like straight up narcissism, where it's all about one person without accountability. And I think so many people use the therapized language, or they'll use language like, oh, I'm just living my thing, or you know, I'm just I'm out here and they're actually taking advantage. So, how do you make that distinction?
SPEAKER_01I've been saying barf a lot lately, and that is my only reaction to people who uh use the language that way.
SPEAKER_00Damn, I hate it.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Really makes me want to like break things. I'm gonna start with the first bit about community, and so I've I've told y'all I do a lot with codependence. I'm also a deeply spiritual and could be religious person. I like that it that is what we are sold is to make the other person your higher power, your god. Like they are supposed to be that thing. And like, I mean, in in so many traditions, like monks take vows to their practice, and we fucking take vows to other people who are fallible. Yeah. And so, like, I've definitely heard and using my own practice, like, trust God, love others, right? Like, other people are gonna be messy and do their own thing. Uh, my favorite uh acronym that I've heard for love is letting others voluntarily evolve. Right? And that's where and that's so another like beautiful gift that like sidebar of non-monogamy is like there is like it's not forever isn't the goal anymore. The goal is let's stay together as long as it's wonderful for both of us. Let's stay together as long as it's helping each other evolve in a cool way and we amplify, right? Like, that's the new goal. And if if when we break up, like as long as it was a good run, amazing. Forever's not the goal. Forever was a really like, would you re it's kind of like quantity or quality? Like, would you have want to have like some really good quality time with someone? Or do you are you just trying to get like the gold star of like you stayed together for 50 years? Like, I don't I don't want that award. That trophy sucks.
SPEAKER_00I always I guess on the flip side, I like the phrase where they say you in order to have a long relationship, you have to fall in love with the person they're involving with every day.
SPEAKER_01Every day. If you get stuck on who they were, choose it and choose it every day, right? And so that's where like monogamy, I'm like, sometimes I will like I don't actually tell people because I don't think it's a delivery that would land, but I'm like, your structure does not keep you safe, right? Like there's this idea that if if we were non-monogamous, David would just leave me, right? Like, and like, oh my god, then let David go, right? Like David, if David doesn't, if David doesn't want to be here, set him free. Right. But like there is that there is that sense that like, like, oh, sweet P, like, how much fear must you live in if you think your marriage is the and your monogamy structure is the only thing that keeps your partner here, right? Like, oh, what does that say about how you think about yourself? Like, God, that sounds I I've been there. Like it sounds and is so scary. And it again, like the same pressure you put on them to be everything, you imagine that back, right? Like, I have to be their everything. So what are what is my fear of failure? I I and I think about this a lot for folks who are aromantic or asexual. Like, there's this idea that you are gonna provide those things. And so, how many of us are living completely outside of our truth because we think we have to meet this certain, if I am not sexual, if I am not romantic in these stereotypical ways, then my person will leave me. And like we make that like the we make that our biggest fear as opposed to like, what if I live decades of my life out of alignment with my truth? Like that that that is my new big fear. So there's definitely like I love that non-monogamy allows you to both value your platonic connections more and you can be like, okay, cool, like my partner, like like you said, um, doesn't like live music. That's okay. I've got amazing other friends that do, right? My partner, or like we're gonna change, right? The disabled community that I am a part of is chronically, chronically talking about like, hey, your body's gonna change. You're not always gonna be able to do it this way and in this form. And like, like, how to not think that our value is based on those things, that's so hard for me. I but I grapple with that every day. Like, I want to, I want, I love pouring into other people. I love loving, and sometimes sometimes I have to choose my body and rest over these other things that I would like to do. I do think it leads to a pitfall in polyamory. There's a joke that's it's called Frankenpoly, where you're not satisfied in each connection the way it is, so you keep just adding people. You're like, oh well, this is really good sexually, but I need this person to be, I need like an intellectual component. You kind of grab that and sew it on, right? And like I have found in myself that like my it has been an escape when I don't want to recognize that something is over. And I'm like, it's okay, I'll just go outsource it, instead of feeling I was in denial and like I was uh scared of my own grief that something was ending. Um, and so I tried to just go find it somewhere else. Um, so it it is both a beautiful additive component of that, and you know, like anything else, like our our predispositions, the things we're working on in therapy are gonna sum up, right? And so that's where it really like liberated relationships and all this to your second question. Like, it's gonna come back to like what are you centered in? What are you grounded in? Because if you're not like the other one, I hear a lot, it's like, well, I'm not responsible for your feelings. And it's like, bitch, you can like it, you cannot both say that we are here to have a relationship that we are co-creating, and then say that you do not contribute to the way that that impacts both of us. You don't get both, right? Like, like, do like I know that like you can't necessarily cause feelings, right? Like I could say the same thing today when you are in a really good place and satisfied, or when you fucking need a Snickers bar. Like, like those are gonna land differently, right? I can say the exact same thing. So it's not necessarily that I cause people to have feelings and I can't fix your feelings, but I contribute every day, right?
SPEAKER_00And so I think it becomes important, like when and how you say something. If I know you're pissed off, I'm like, you know what, this conversation can wait, or how I say it to you, you might need to adjust. That is your responsibility as the speaker.
SPEAKER_01Now, what you do with that your ability to respond is based in your ability and willingness to assess to read the room and be like, not important. Or, you know, I think there's another place of like to read the room and be like, huh, yeah, they're really fired up right now. And like it will do harm to me if I can't talk about this right now. And then you get to decide again, like, do I need to talk about it with this person or can I talk about it with someone else? Right. Like, again, if you start expanding it and that partner doesn't have to be your everything, you have so many more resources and there's so much spaciousness, right?
SPEAKER_03I think that's a huge part of it. I'm loving this conversation. And through the class, that was one of my questions, one of the in one of the sessions was like, How do you make non-monogamy sustainable for the long term? And the answer was like, that's not the goal. So, like, it's it's to enjoy the the present moment. And that really helped me kind of re sh rethink some of my existing relationships. And so, yeah, I'm really enjoying this conversation. I do kind of want to shift it a little bit to talk about kink. And because you said that there is an overlap here in between these liberated relationships and and kink. So I'm curious first of first and foremost, what is kink and how does someone discover their kinks?
SPEAKER_01Oh man. You want to know how I discovered I was kinky before I even have words for it? How? I was in the second grade and I had fantasies about this guy in my class like kidnapping me. Yeah. And like, yeah, basically just kidnapping me. Okay. And I was like, well, I thought I was fucked up for a long time. Like, it's it's cool. But now I look back and I'm like, oh, I've always had like perverse desires. And there's you can get into the the um neurology and like the childhood experiences of it all, but like that that is for therapy, and you know, there is also this place here where we are gonna we can talk about kink as like adults, right? And so kink as a term really just means like everything outside of the vanilla straight and narrow, right? Not like straight straight, but like uh missionary and societally perceived as quote unquote normal. So we're talking about like some just I don't know, missionary, like I have a friend that calls it kissy kissy, right?
SPEAKER_00Like hilarious, right?
SPEAKER_01And so that to say that like, and then you start getting some people who have like dipped their toes in it and they're like, my vanilla friends would say I'm kinky, but the kink community would not, right? So there becomes this scale of like, what are you willing to do? And then sometimes we've also seen that through porn and TV representation that like some behaviors sneak into the vanilla category. So like the kids are really into choking, and right, like there are these things, and like I definitely have concerns there because um people who are really doing kink well have spent a lot of time talking about safety and consent and these things, like uh safe, sane, and consensual, right? Those are that's the kink kind of like uh top three, and and and negotiate it. And so if you're thinking about the overlap in this Venn diagram, it's like kink also has to be explicitly discussed, right? Kink also has to be consensual between all parties, and it's customized, right? Like you get to make this your own, and that's one of the big things that I think non-monogamy does offer these other connections too, is like make it your own. You can be monogamous and liberated, but customize it, right? Like make it so that it it amplifies everything you want to be, that it honors you. So again, but like I think one thing that I really try to hone in on, especially in liberated relationships, is like if you if you're trying to align two points on a piece of paper with a ruler or anything, you have to know where that first point is. That's you. And if you are not willing to be honest about what you want and what you like, how are you going to align the other pieces, the other dots of your life, if you don't actually know where that first point is, right? Like alignment is between two things, but if you don't know who or what you are, what you want, what you desire, you're gonna have a bad time. So kink is another thing that brings us into that alignment. I think the same thing that I would encourage about like non-monogamy of being curious is how I encourage people to get into kink. Like, and like I'm being really real about it, like try some new porn, right? Like, go and see if anything, like let yourself do a little RD, a little research and development. Like, and just like it's being open to the world in a different way and being like, like actually asking the question, like, does this turn me on? And like allowing again, if you see it and you're like, wow, that's really hot to me, it doesn't mean you have to go do it, right? Like, there are deep categories of like the fantasies that I actually want to play out with someone else and the things I might masturbate to, right? Like those are broad different categories, and like you might need to say that again. There are certain things. Hey team, the things I actually want to do in the bedroom and the things I masturbate to are very different categories. That's a word, and being I am turned on by both, and you know, it doesn't mean that I even always want to do everything in one category. I think that's why Kink has always felt so liberatory for people. It it is taking, we hear a lot about shadow work too now. If we're talking about like in words, therapy words that have found the internet. Oh my gosh. Um, yeah, like it feels like the shadow, it feels like the dark. I literally had someone before I tried BDSM who was like, you can't like if you look behind the curtain, you can't go back, right? Like they're like, it will, you will be changed. And I was like, Bet? Like, let's fucking go. Because again, like this was pretty deep in my soul and my curiosity. And so giving a little light to that, giving acceptance. It really mat it does matter who you play with. I want to plug that. That like you want it to be someone who doesn't necessarily make your body feel activated. We sometimes confuse that with excitement, but makes you feel safe. You want to talk about all your kink fully clothed ahead of time when you're not planning on having sex right afterwards. You want to like sit sit with it. Like, if there's any sense of urgency or people like jumping into a dynamic, I'm I'm immediately turned off and you should be too. And so, yeah, that's that's one way to really like come into it and then you know, baby step it. I have a friend who's got she's got some experience in BDSM, she's dating a guy that's not. And so we started talking about like, okay, how do we how do we baby step these things? Like, she we want to go full bondage, cool. Let's start with a silk scarf and some handcuffs, right? Like, oh, you want to get a nice vlogger. Right?
SPEAKER_03You want to you want to do it?
SPEAKER_01There's thud and there's sting, and we we'll get into that next week.
SPEAKER_00But part two.
SPEAKER_01And again, like it's it's all about it's so it's about consent. Like, I know David was and I were talking about like, what's the difference between violence and like someone hitting you? Is isn't that violent? And I'm like, it's all about consent, right? If I just tell you that like uh a knife cutting through skin, like like someone like cutting with a knife, you're like, oh, that's violent. I'm like, oh no, it's a surgeon. And you're like, oh fuck, I actually really want him to do surgery on me, right? Like it's it's about consent and kind of zooming back out, it's gonna be about power structures and who gets to define what's violent, right? Like the the the parades that happen after our sports team wins, they literally setting things on fire. Um, but if we do it over there, um, it's a riot, right? And these people are uncivilized. So a lot of that's about language, a lot of that's about, but it's about consent, right? We consented to this post Super Bowl, whatever, the power that be did not consent to you uh wanting basic human rights. Come on, amen. Yeah. So consent is going to be the thing there that makes it, right? I love impact play because for me, pain is an amplifying sensation. And so it will usually increase my pleasure over time, and those can build together. I consent to that and really enjoy it. There are so many things I can do with a partner that I can't do by myself.
SPEAKER_00Um, and that's impact pay for those who may not be aware of that.
SPEAKER_01Impact play is gonna be anything that has impact. So we're talking about floggers, uh, whips, paddles, uh hands. Hands are great. Any, yeah, anything. And again, there's gonna be these broad categories and this language, and so you know it. I just want to like validate that like it can look like a big, scary monolith of kink, but it's gonna be like getting into any other hobby, right? So if you are, have you gotten into a hobby lately? I'm writing a book in the process of writing a book.
SPEAKER_03Well, I haven't written it in a while, but I puzzles are usually my go-to hobby. Okay. Puzzles.
SPEAKER_01You start getting into puzzles and you're like, crap, how many? I don't even know how many puzzle pieces is difficult. I don't even know, like, and then you get one and you're like, oh crap, I needed one that had way more design because this is like any hobby you get into is going to seem very difficult at first. And then you start getting into it and you're like, oh my God, there's so many pieces. But you got to stick with it because then they start to make sense. They start to have a place, right? And so I just like I was telling someone recently I dropped my motorcycle twice in the motorcycle safety course. Uh, they had to take one out of circulation because I broke it.
SPEAKER_03Oh yo.
SPEAKER_01And now I am a very good, very safe rider, right? Learning is just uncomfortable. So if you're curious about kink, I don't know. I Reddit honestly has some really good communities. Uh do yourself some Googling, like put those critical thinking skills to work. But like just know that like if you remember the last time you tried to learn something and how difficult it was. And then just give yourself that same grace if you're curious about kink. Because it's and it's it's difficult because you can't go to Home Depot and where you can go to Home Depot and ask about flowers and like sunlight and stuff. Like it's hard because you don't necessarily have a go-to person to just ask about kink. So you can call me.
SPEAKER_00We're on the podcast right now, the relationships linked.
SPEAKER_01I'm not at Home Depot, but I'm on the internet. So uh yeah, hit me up. Like, let's talk. Like you've got me, you've got amazing content creators, like you, you, and again, you're not alone in it. And that's you know, kind of tying it back in is like like BDSM and Kink is often a community. Um, certainly people practice it in their own ways, but like it is it is about a community of experimentation and pleasure and these again, these things that capitalism don't like. It's but it's really powerful, and like finding freedoms and things that you thought you weren't allowed to have is just so liberating. And like having these embodied, I think that's a huge part of it too, is like it's not just a heady, like, ooh, I'm um I'm like indulging in a desire. It's like you you are fully there. You are like whatever, whatever your thing is, it's like it is an embodied knowledge of freedom. Like your body is liberated for that time being of kind of everything, depending if you're doing it right.
SPEAKER_00We'll have to bring you back because you just opened up a can of worms for me personally, because I kink is actually a topic that I'm fascinated by because I believe no matter your relationship dynamic, I think it's so important communication and being able to talk about desire. And I think having someone like yourself modeling that. But I also what you really triggered was I said, where my asexuality journey, I think, really began was that it's not a body experience for me. It's a very heady experience, which makes it very challenging to be existing. But y'all will have to get that on another one. Or if you take the liberated relationship class, which is in link in bio, do it, do it. David cannot recommend it's great, do it. Doesn't matter what you are hoping, what your relationship style, you even said that in the beginning, it's about liberating yourself and getting very clear on what you need and what you want from relationships, what actually makes it easier for your partner as well, because they're not in the darking aimlessly trying to trying to contribute to your happiness.
SPEAKER_01I I will plug one of my like favorite mini courses I'm I'm gonna publish soon is about a um a care cheat sheet. And it literally is this diagram that I have that is like if Nicole's upset, say these things, do these things, offer these things. Here are my go-to menu, like here's my order at PF Chang's, John the Q's. Like, like, oh my goodness, take take the guesswork out of it. Like, it's one thing to say we're not mind readers, and it's another to like proactively offer that information to our beloved, right? And it it helps us love each other better. Yeah, I I will talk about this all day, day.
SPEAKER_03I love this. I love this. And it was like something that something that I really liked that you said was around safe, sane, and sensual. Consensual. Consensual. Consensual and sensual.
SPEAKER_00You know, sensual. We'll just put the parentheses in front. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, yes. And it made me start thinking about like something that I had originally sort of in my mind associated with violence was fisting. And I had the opportunity, I can't believe I'm talking about this publicly, but I know here we are. Here we are. But I was like, I had the opportunity to do that to someone. And I have said I I learned that it wasn't necessarily for me. I didn't love it. Yet it was probably the most consensual and communicative sexual experience I've ever had. Because like the ground rules were established. Like I was, I wanted to make sure that I did not hurt this person because I was like, I like, I got a big hand.
SPEAKER_00And so like that fellas, they're trying, he's trying to let you know something.
SPEAKER_01Hit him up.
SPEAKER_00David is six foot three, big hands.
SPEAKER_01You know what that means.
SPEAKER_03I also I'm discovering a new era of myself. I sent a shirtless picture to somebody last night and I really enjoyed it, and I got compliments on it. And I was like, I don't care what they think because I think I look good. They also thought I looked good. It's the Zumba body. So but I love this. I yeah, no, I'm loving this conversation because it it is about like, I'm so happy that I tried something like that, and I learned that like, you know what? I can see why people would be into this. I can see like the interest in this. Like, I I I went into it being very, very curious. And I was like, wow, this is so fascinating. And we were on the same page the whole time. And it and there was it, there was an intimacy about it. There was an intimacy about this because we were touching base with one another the entire time. And so, like, like they said, there is like an emotional headiness. I don't know how to spiritual almost like spiritual. Yeah. Because there's there is an inherent trust that that has to be built.
SPEAKER_01It's not inherent.
SPEAKER_03No, you built it. Sure. Right?
SPEAKER_01Inherent kind of gives this idea that like, oh, the vibes were there and we just like trusted. No, like y'all built that and y'all built it over and over and over. And you kept choosing the process, right? Like y'all talked before and then you kept talking through it. Yes. And like that's like and talked afterward too. Like what was it? As I would recommend, like the accessions. Like, and so to really like, you know, if you're like trust is a verb, or like, right? But like you built that, like it felt it, it sounds like it it flowed really well, but like y'all built that. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So thank you.
SPEAKER_01That's that's incredible. And like, were you also like affirmed by how much fun they had? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03And I also had fun. Like I also had fun. And I was like, okay, like this isn't something that I want to do regularly, but like if the opportunity presented itself again, I might explore it.
SPEAKER_01And you'll you know more about it, right? Because like that's the thing too, is like I trust people so much more if they've tried broccoli and say they don't like it, right? Um, like if you if you're just like, oh fuck broccoli, I'm like, did you try it? Right? Like, if you if you try the thing and you're like again, we can make some educated guesses, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But um I'm gonna I'm gonna put because I I I am in the minority. My problematic take, my best friend would be so mad if I didn't say this on here is that you know what? We do need to start bringing back some kink shaming. We have let it go a little wild and reckless. And I'm sorry, we don't have to get into it. But I say I'm putting race plate on the list. We've taken some things a little too far, and in this current climate, I'm sorry. I'm not calling you massa in the bedroom, but that's me. Y'all can come at me in the comments. I say it with love. Talk to your therapist, not me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for real though. Um, here's the thing that I feel about that, that I'm ad-loving is like all of us are gonna have desires. And one thing that has really helped me release my resentment and struggle with some people is like you are doing your best and your best is a little shitty. Like that has helped me forgive some people. It's not malicious, it's not out to get me, it's not personal. It's like, oh, that that's your best and your best is shitty. So, and and that to say, like, we're all coming. I'm not saying that everyone does race play is shitty. It's like like everyone is working on it and we're all at different parts of the path. And race play is one of those things where I'm like, man, did y'all do the work? Like it just had leaves me with a few more questions. Like, I just like the level of work that would have to go into that to make sure that everything is safe, sane, and consensual is incredible. And I also know that there have been times in my life when I've said yes and I did my body did not mean yes. Like, there was there was an era of my life where it was really unsafe to play with me. Um, this was in my youth, like, because I again I thought I needed to be sexual. I thought my whole worth was built off my sexuality. And so I like participated in creating more trauma and damage to myself by pursuing that. And I'm not saying like necessarily like, oh, I hurt myself, but it's like that's the way that the shoulds and the power of societal messaging compounded damage on me. I didn't think I could say no. I didn't, I signed up for things that I would uh that that I had no business playing in. Um, because, and that's so that's that's another like back to the safe, saying and consensual. Like, make sure that you feel comfortable saying yes and no and let your body say yes, let your body say no, practice saying no, practice your safe word just to make sure that everyone's on the same page. And if you don't feel like you can say that without fear of rep repercussion, without any of those things, like sweetheart, like I it's I'm not going to sit here and judge or blame for being in that moment, but I want you to know it can be so much better. Because I've I have been in those moments, and sometimes the only way through it is through it. But honey, you can have so much better. You can have people that stop immediately and pull your blindfold off and look in your eyes and say, hey, what's up? Like, hey, what's wrong? Start untying you. Like that just immediately come back to that present moment with you because it was always about the shared experience. They are not so obsessed with dombing you or subbing to you that they can't come back to you as a person. Like, that's what again, David said it's all about relationships. Like, it's all about that, like the the enjoyment and you know, kind of relational high of doing a scene together is not more important than you as a person. And if that ever happens, like take a step back and catch your breath.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I love that. I think that's the perfect place to wrap that portion of the interview because it's so important. Never lose the person in the midst of the moment. So I love that. Well, we have made this, I say a tradition, it's only been one time, but you are the second only guess for us at this fun rapid fire game at the end where we ask you a series of questions and you can just the first thing that comes to mind. It doesn't have to be overthought, doesn't have to be super deep, it can be funny, whatever it is for you. So we're gonna ask you some fun kink and and sex related ones because that's the best episode, anyways. So, my first one who is the celebrity that you'd bring to a play party, no questions asked.
SPEAKER_01Uh Adrian Marie Brown. Oh, I love this. I think she would like they would just be so much fun to like. I feel like they would have the most liberated, body positive play party ever.
SPEAKER_00Love it, love it. Are we taking turns? I didn't know. Sorry. We can that's fine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's okay. So yeah. We're gonna take turns. Yes, I like this. I like this.
SPEAKER_01So look how y'all negotiated that in real time, and it didn't break the flow. If anything, it enhanced the intimacy of this moment.
SPEAKER_03I love this, right? Look at us, yes, look at this. So a kink you think is unfairly judged.
SPEAKER_01I think a kink that is unfairly judged would be something like, I want to be locked in a like husky-size play crate. Okay, I think there, I I get the part of me that was like, God, I just want to be like I I want a really small safe space for me to be in where I don't have to make any decisions. Like, this is like someone else is making, I mean, that's so much of like a wonderful submissive experience. It's like, I just wanna I just want every all the decisions to be made for me. And so I think I think that kind of confinement version of it can look really odd to the outside and like the person inside the cage isn't having fun, but like they're having fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I like that. It makes me think of people into putt play.
SPEAKER_01They often say, like, oh my god, like god, I've done kitten play and like it's so fun to just like feel released from all of society. It's like I'm just a cat, I'm gonna knock shit over and I'm gonna be annoying. Like, and then someone's gonna pet my hair, like so much love, so much love.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so biggest turnoff in a woke partner.
SPEAKER_01Oh god. Basically, if they say the word woke, I'm running. Like, um, I I had someone tell me they were gender blind. Yeah, that was great. I oh god. Honestly, it's the arrogance. Like, in the biggest turnoff in these people for me is the arrogance that they they know what they're talking about, they know what's right. And again, like I've spent this whole time talking about curiosity, and that arrogance is a closed door, man. Like, you are not interested in evolving anything you're talking about, and I am not here for that.
SPEAKER_03Relatable. What's a safe word you wish you could use in daily life? Mine is raisins, which was like the childhood safe word that my parents made up. They said if someone's ever coming to pick you up, you have to ask them the secret word, and it's raisins. So that's stuck with me forever. So yeah, what's your safe word?
SPEAKER_01I definitely think we need safe words that initiate action and safe words that like shut action down, right? Because normally safe words are like, like, I want this to stop. But uh, especially if, like, you know, I like it when people like initiate, like, I want a safe word that says, like, yes, keep going, right? Um important. Yeah. No, I actually have platonic safe words in my life. Real little, like, like I have a friend and we really like to joke hard and like we'll kind of go for it, right? Like, we like to play rough with our jokes. Um, and at one point I was like, hey, can we have a safe word in case my jokes ever get too mean? I've had safe words with partners. It's the version of like, hey, when if I ask you about your shoes, I want to leave this party, right? Like I think just again, safe words are just shortcut communication. It is a single word that has a much bigger meaning, right? And so, like in sex, it would be like, hey, something and a lot of kink folk use the the um stoplight system. So red is like something is really fucking wrong. We need to get going, uh or we need to stop this immediately. Yellow can be like, hey, this is getting too intense. I don't need a full stop, but we need to pivot. Green is all good. Some people will even add blue for like there's just a medical reason that I need something to change, like circulation in my foot has been cut off. How? Well, yeah, shit happens.
SPEAKER_00Um that's important though.
SPEAKER_01No, right? And it's like, I'm I'm like, I don't need the play to stop. I just need you to like loosen the the rope on my foot, right? Like, I'm having a good time, but you know, my body. So I I I anything that is a little shortcut communication, right? Yeah, I hope that I like that.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so sexiest non-sexual act someone can do for you.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. Literally anyone in my life is invited to do this, but if we're like out and about and we need to like change direction, just like palm on the back of my on the small of my back. Like, just like, hey, over here, like just like you connect with me and we we we move together. Like, oh, that is just that's cute.
SPEAKER_00I don't think I I don't know if I even have one. David answered in the last one. But I'm like, I think for me it would be I like when people say I love the way that you think, like complimenting me on things that are not sexual. Yes, a great turn on. Like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You see me, right? You fucking see all of me. It's not just like yes, I'm hot, and like I'm really fucking smart, right?
SPEAKER_00Like, I don't feel seen a lot of times outside of I think performative things, so it's nice when someone's actually like, I remember that you said on this day, blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, Yeah, you see me, you hear me, like to be known. I like when people think I'm funny. Oh god, so yeah, that's that's who I'm such a sucker for that. Oh there's an intellect, there's I think a lot of funny people are really smart too. So yeah, that's why the guy got the shirtless picture of me last night because he said, You are so silly. You'll know the G homie limbo pod.
SPEAKER_00Listen, so David and I have joked because people have actually slid in my DMs uh about from the other podcast, and like I'm like, listen, David is giving you free game right now to slide in his DMs with because don't slide in mind. This is not baseball, don't slide in mind unless you are ready to play the game. But David DMs are so good.
SPEAKER_03Is there one relationship rule you think is totally made up?
SPEAKER_01Oh, oh, I have a good one for this. Okay. Uh, don't go to bed angry.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Interesting. Please tell why. That's something that I've worked on, but I'll tell you why.
SPEAKER_01Okay. I think that the more we talk about attachment and nervous systems and bodies, like I am not good past like 10, 10 p.m., right? And so you're gonna get a reduced and reduced skillful version of me, especially if we are talking about something important. Like, please go let me sleep, and I will come back to you the way I want to show up for our relationship, rested, balanced, centered. Again, don't like storm out of the room and slam the door to like go to bed. But being able to say, like, being able to feel like your relationship is so spacious that it doesn't have to be hashed out in this moment is saying, like, hey, I know this is really frickin' rough right now. Um, I want to come back to it when I'm more centered. Like, is that something we can do to also together? Right. Okay. Um that's that's that's like I don't know. Can we not stay up and hash it out as we both get worse and worse at it at communicating? Like, no, thank you.
SPEAKER_00I think that's fair because I was gonna say my reasoning, because so my late partner, I remember one time it stuck out with me. They were like, You have to say I love you, blah blah blah or do so blah blah blah, so that if anything were to happen, we would be good. And unfortunately it did happen. But I think what you said is a nice distinction. It's still coming to the table acknowledging I know that this issue is present, I still love you. You're I my value of you has not changed, but I we need to address the situation where we're both at our best because I want it to be us against the situation, not us against each other. And I think that is really at the heart of that phrase, hopefully, because yeah, staying up yelling, I'm a night person. If you wake me up for nonsense, I'm number four noon. So I would be very upset. So I totally we're here on that. We're good, we're good.
SPEAKER_01No, that's exactly it. Because it it is a message of I love you. Like we get the we get this idea that like I love you has to look a certain way, and sometimes it is staying in that fight or that communication, and sometimes I love you is taking a break, and that's just ultimate up.
SPEAKER_00I love it. So wrapping up here, we have like two more. So, what's one thing vanilla people actually get right?
SPEAKER_01Missionary.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01I think uh the sensuality and like eye contact of missionary, man, like I'm kinky as fuck, and sometimes that just hits right. Like, I think that again, like yeah, the sensuality as we're putting it back in is just like perfect.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it forces emotional vulnerability. I think it's easy to get lost in some of the external factors of like the more extreme sides of the kinks as a way to detach the intimacy and the emotional vulnerability. It missionary definitely forces you. It is you, me, and Dupree. So I get it.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yes.
SPEAKER_03What makes you feel instantly hot, even in sweatpants or just very casual lounge wear being pushed against the wall?
SPEAKER_01Okay, like to be wanted, or like if I'm sitting on the couch in said sweatpants and you like mount me, like I I just want to be wanted, and especially if I'm in those sweatpants, like like and it's you know, the diluted version is like, you know, hit my butt when you walk by, or those things, but like the little acts of I want you, nothing better.
SPEAKER_00Fair, fair. All right, last and never least, a red flag that still makes you say, Maybe just one more time, which probably is a yellow flag, but you know, just one.
SPEAKER_03The floor is yours.
SPEAKER_00We had an episode two weeks ago where we was like, dang, red flags, we we should have stopped and we didn't.
SPEAKER_03So we made a whole episode about red flags, right?
SPEAKER_01And again, I'm just gonna preach that like as long as you're aware that they're red flags, and you're like you, you you you and you decide together as a committee that we're gonna do this anyways.
SPEAKER_00Fair.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, it's uh they have a fast motorcycle, they have a leather jacket, they're a little arrogant. Um, but I need that paired with like deeply focused on my pleasure, and like I'm gonna have a hard time uh saying no. Yeah, fair.
SPEAKER_00I always joke the benefit of being asexual is that like it requires people to show up very differently from me to actually feel impressed. Like, I'm like, oh my god, I joked.
SPEAKER_01You're immune, you're immune to some propaganda.
SPEAKER_00I said, Oh my god, if Dick and Booty actually made me feel the way it made other people feel, I'd be screwed. I'd be screwed. I understand all the stress that people go through and the motivation in pursuit of it. So I'm like, but I'm not I'm not immune to food. I always say that's that's the one that got me. So I'm in a very, very closest relationship. So Yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. I have loved y'all.
SPEAKER_03This is so oh my gosh, the feeling is mutual. Oh my gosh. There uh you are welcome back anytime. Uh you you passed.
SPEAKER_00You made we're trying to compile a a a panel. I want to do a panel episode with like about dating, queer dating, and all the different things. So one day we'll have to have you back as one of our publicly, we have to do it. So it's about finding the right people, a nice balance.
SPEAKER_03I wanted to be some good a good panel is carefulness. Yes. Well, I'm gonna speak for myself and consent with day to say that I would like you to be the first person on our panel that we are establishing. So and I hope Day is okay with that. Look at us checking in, checking out. Green, yeah, green, yeah, green, keep going. Yes. Well, Nicole Castro, thank you. Where can people follow you and your work? Get in touch with you if they want to learn more, if they want to work with you.
SPEAKER_01Uh, you can find all of my stuff um under my handle New Worlds Together. It's new dash worlds together.com. Um, I haven't really embraced the content creator side, but that's how you can get me as a real person. So I'm on Instagram and I got a website. Awesome.
SPEAKER_03Well, we'll put links to that in the show notes. So go check out Nick's come go check out Nick. Come talk to me. Yes, great. So, yes, well, thank you. I really, really enjoyed this conversation. I I was a little nervous, but I was like, I I feel so much more like honestly liberated. And so, yeah, so thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00So, yes, we got exclusive stories out of both of us, like first timers, David Fisting, yeah, asexual. Like, wow, I can't cut it off the episode now. I've said it too many times.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. So, yes. Well, if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with a friend. Rate us five stars on the platform where you listen, get in touch with us, send me shirtless picks at call me limbo pod on that to at I was about to give y'all his open, baby.
SPEAKER_00Right, I was about to give him his finst because David's not gonna be using the business one for stuff like that. But if you hit him up for his fenster, you have you might get permission to send him there. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yes, there we go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do not consent to that.
SPEAKER_03There we go. Don't don't send us your shirtless picks at call me limbo pod on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok threads, and Red Note. Send us an email, call me limbo pod at gmail.com. Go read Day's newest Substack articles. I learned though the actual website is callmelylimbo pod.substack.com. So go check out the article there. There's also a link to it in our show notes. So go read, go read day's articles. My poem that I have written is about 80% done. So that will be posted next week. Next week. So yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh exciting!
SPEAKER_03Yes. So yes, and you can become a financial supporter.
SPEAKER_01It's life, it's amazing. It's so satisfying to know that I help these two keep amplifying and going and sharing. It's it feels good, y'all.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you. We don't take it for granted. So thank you. You can do that at um patreon.com slash call me on bo pod, or you can send one-time contributions on Venmo and Cash App. And I can't let either one of you go without saying what I always say. So it's actually not what I always say, it's what my therapist always says. Okay. What she said to me last week in the first 10 minutes, and I about got up and walked out. So rude. I was like, why are you? Stop doing what I pay you to do. Yeah, but I feel like that this is appropriate in the spirit of our spirit of our conversation. So like my therapist always says, why does gratitude have to be selective? You know what? I'm gonna say Abundance. Abundance desire. Why does desire have to be selective? We can abundance. We form new worlds together. So call me limbo.
SPEAKER_00Bye.