No Filter in Paradise
Two friends, one's straight one's Gay, with different backgrounds, interest, upbringing & outlook in life come together to have a Fun & honest conversation and discuss their opinions on different topics... with no filter.
No Filter in Paradise
Mike De Meza: This is my last election, I'm retiring | EP 171
In this episode we sit with Mike De Meza and talked about San Nicolas, Green energy, Culture, Carnival, History and this being his last election.
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You've been in 20 years in politics. When do you feel like you would retire? This is my last dance.
Speaker 2:Really, what Is it legit? I'm Michael Jordan, what?
Speaker 1:happens. If you're a referee, you have to agree to sign and nothing ever happens.
Speaker 2:So many things was left unattended to. We're losing 20, 20. They will lose like 40, 60 million a month. Industry is crazy. They put you in a baby.
Speaker 1:You're thin, you're old. I've heard people that have had experts come to Aruba and test their waters with the nickel and apparently they're not great because, because they're refinery. I thought it's always been Avepe and Pepe.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, Before Avepe and Pepe. This episode of electric me about the nickel and pepe.
Speaker 1:No, I mean you asked the question, you were giving me your answer, Bro, he could.
Speaker 3:I triggered something.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on having Juvia and Blaya? Let me check the fuck out.
Speaker 3:Oh shit. So we had Mike. That means you jumped ship Havana. You just went MVP and that was the competition Hot dog.
Speaker 1:Hey yo, what's up? La chemistess Guys, welcome to your favorite political show here in our room. I'm kidding, ooh, I like that, I'm not mad about it.
Speaker 3:We can do that right. I don't know about that. Between now and December 6th, we can say that no we can't say that we also have friends. We're on more, yeah, yeah, we're on more.
Speaker 1:Go check yeah, yeah, yeah, world of Warcraft King guys go check it out. Also, check out Face the Future with Mauro.
Speaker 3:So and Table X babies.
Speaker 1:We're in the top we're in the top three in no order whatsoever anyways, guys welcome back to your favorite show, your favorite podcast here on the ABC Islands no filter in paradise, a show about anything and everything between two friends. One is super straight and the other extremely gay and black Purr. All right, awesome guys I like Wow, no, come on, I'm sorry, shake it off.
Speaker 1:Like we remind you every single week, this is not a political show. We just bring people who are in politics and we discuss some shit with them. That's pretty much what it is.
Speaker 3:I think everybody's consistently been watching this every week. You don't have to keep saying it.
Speaker 1:No, I don saying it. No, I don't think so. I think we're very much over it, okay. Um, without further ado, guys, we have, uh, mr mike de mesa. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome to the show officially. Yeah, you guys, when I say welcome back, we had him like four years ago on what? The pocket, yeah, so that's why it was a little confusing how you been good, good, good so far, so good so far so good. Yes, how's the campaigning going?
Speaker 2:it's going good. It's going good, busy, busy, busy. A lot of, um, you know, visiting of homes and radio talk shows by the way, are we doing this in english, or probably?
Speaker 1:oh, it doesn't matter. What are you more comfortable?
Speaker 3:with oh, I you know, mike is english guy, english, yeah, but if you, if you go, if you go to like english I'm, I'm gonna have a hard time understanding. Yeah, that's difficult. Earlier you guys were talking, I was like fuck, what are they saying?
Speaker 1:I just gave them halfway. I was like nah, fuck it.
Speaker 2:Just let them talk. No, anything goes.
Speaker 1:I do feel like this episode is going to be a lot about you two. That's the fact.
Speaker 3:I'm not mad about it. It is what it is, we what it is like.
Speaker 1:we have way more in common, I agree you're both from san nicolas right 100 percent I do feel like this conversation because we do have, you know, some question about san nicolas, but I do feel like a lot of this conversation is going to be like 50 percent san nicolas, so yeah for sure I also want to know, because for years people have been promising san nicolas and we talked about this recently is, I feel like finally it's actually something's gonna be? I don't know we don't know everybody's still.
Speaker 2:It's still a talk. Okay, okay, years, everyone is talking, it's always promises this is why I have trust issues with politicians.
Speaker 1:For sure, before we dive into the show, we have a little bit of an icebreaker, a segment that's brought to you by a pro frame. Guys, go get your windows and doors per. You don't like them, you have horrible taste. All right, guys, they're amazing. That's facts. So we're gonna start with some questions. Um, back in the day, when you were younger, you know we got some your first time going to vote okay who did you vote for which party? Which person?
Speaker 2:first time I ever voted was in the netherlands what?
Speaker 1:no, no, we don't care about. First aruba, vote aruba. Let me phrase the question first aruba vote.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, my first aren vote was, I think, in 92, because in the 80s, you know, I went to study, was 18 years old, 1981, and I came back the first of December 1990. So the first election after that was in 92. Yeah, so, you know, I always follow politics, also in the netherlands, you know. Then I have, and so forth. You know, I always believe that politics plays a very important role in every day.
Speaker 1:You know I mean you guys kind of affect our lives everything and this show kind of dictates right your future, look at joe rogan. All right, thanks to joe rogan, we got.
Speaker 2:You know, we got trump so I'm just we all need each other over here, but which party did you vote for?
Speaker 1:Who was it? Do you remember who it was? Okay?
Speaker 3:Okay, nice.
Speaker 1:Come through All right. So, as of right now, what's your favorite kind of music Take?
Speaker 2:your time. Well, it's so good. You gotta be careful what you say, that's all I'm like to be honest like reggae, love reggae, a lot soca reggae and R&B you have a favorite artist.
Speaker 1:Sorry, a favorite artist how you call him.
Speaker 2:You see which one I would. I think it would be Bob Marley. Okay, because I grew up in Bob.
Speaker 3:Marley, that's your era In the 70s, you know yeah yeah, Everybody plays Bob Marley especially Nicholas, you know, bob Marley, I have some other ones too Dolly Parton. Really Dolly, is that?
Speaker 1:working now.
Speaker 3:I mean.
Speaker 2:Dolly's a classic. Yeah, that was Cowboy Songs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's country.
Speaker 1:You're wearing your big bell with your hat, walking down the street.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, I did not expect that Me neither.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was one of my. She has good songs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have some other ones too, but you know, michael Jackson is everyone.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, we're just playing Michael Jackson before you walk in, exactly but we had rock, you know rock music Kiss was one of them.
Speaker 2:Acdc let's go, you know.
Speaker 1:I like ACDC Meatloaf. I'm not a fan of Meatloaf, but okay, I like ACDC Meatloaf.
Speaker 3:I'm not a fan of meatloaf.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, marley Crew, yes, yes, yes, I've seen ACDC live once. Okay, okay, you know, when I grew up, we had these big radios that you walk with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The boombox, the boombox yeah. That was the thing you know. So some of my friends, they were hard rock fans so they would be Just rock in the neighborhood. Yeah, we used to be. What the fuck?
Speaker 3:is this. I would have bought somebody because not in my house.
Speaker 2:We would be doing a lot of sports, you know. I grew up doing many different sports, you know. But after that we would sit down right in front of the YMCA on the On the Curve radio, right in the solo there Curve just chilling booming music, you know and I was always in big groups of guys. We had a you know gang of 30 guys, jesus, and when we go to party, you know, if one gets invited, everybody has to go, everybody it's a package deal.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's still how you be, though you still like this though.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I move around, for sure for sure with a pack, for sure you know.
Speaker 1:For sure, with a pack For sure, so right now, what's your favorite restaurant in Aruba?
Speaker 2:My favorite restaurant in Aruba. Okay, right now I would give it to O'Neill's and Kamini.
Speaker 3:I don't know, kamini, that's also further up Same street, closer to my house.
Speaker 1:Okay, you have Kamini and O'Neill's in the main street. She's treated, that you know.
Speaker 2:White, before you go to the holiday. You have Kamini, okay and O'Neal's in the main street.
Speaker 1:She's treated at. I know what O'Neal's I do. Everybody's been to O'Neal's.
Speaker 2:I've only been there twice and the new one you know from Machiavelli. You know, salini, I haven't been, yet mean that guy is just in a different class.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Chef Machiavelli.
Speaker 1:Okay, I know him on Instagram.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've had his food before, but I've never been to his restaurant officially yet.
Speaker 1:Now, in your opinion, what is the most overrated place? Not just restaurant, it could be anything. It could be a beach, it could be a restaurant. Whatever, the most overrated thing? Thing In Aruba, thing in aruba, what? What, for you, is the most overrated?
Speaker 3:thing. It could be anything. Politics no. If that's the case, everybody's overrated. Okay, we're not in politics yet, but like for you like what's the most overrated something you feel like everybody was hype and you'll be like, really well, you're hyping nothing for inside that good. Well, discussions on Carnival Okay.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:I wasn't expecting that, okay, why.
Speaker 2:Everybody. You know you have what we have 110,000 people living here and everybody is involved in that discussion. There's no way you can't come to nothing sensible. You know that makes sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everybody is discussing and there's all kind of hypes about it and it's crazy, it's very sensationalized, it's true, it's crazy. It's crazy, and when we get on to the Calypso Road match contest, I still call it like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, to me it's just to me it's going a bad direction. You know they have all kind of excuse why going down, and that they need this and that. Well, back in the days when it was the best of the best, it didn't have none of those things.
Speaker 1:So do you think it's just evolving with time? There's like everything else needs to evolve with time yeah, it's like sometimes, like people change them, like why did you change it? But maybe I don't see the big picture of where it's going.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't understand, like the younger crowd, I guess everybody has their opinion yeah, and everybody wants to put their own influence in it yeah, and they don't let it really evolve. You, know it's like a force right thing yeah, yeah, you know, but to for sale it. And, and you know, calypso was never. I used to go calypso as a little boy, 12 years old.
Speaker 1:I used to jump the wall. I used to one of those kids, yeah it was, you know, laurence popat.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was jo Laveis. You know they would fix it. I would go help Joe and if you help him you come inside, just like baseball. You help him score, you help him fix the field. And then at the end of the night you can choose whether pastiche or popcorn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, soft drinks. You know, I just worked eight hours.
Speaker 2:Here's pastiche here you go, like maybe a hundred people, 150 people going there. It's true, you know, and it was really kaisa lovers. You know, those people in san nicolas really go there. It started with with mama, guy otro, all the singers them. They would say a joke about the other one and stuff like that, and they gave a whole show when they enter in. You know, back then you had uh, lord kobachi, you know you had shout out to my granddaddy, yeah and you had Lord Tygall and these guys.
Speaker 2:Rex and them and they would make a wonderful show and it it was just their thing and it just kept growing because it was just their thing exactly. People loved it. It is the way they are what they do and it become bigger and bigger and people just loved it. You know it was like Banca Nicolas. This is a different thing.
Speaker 3:It's not that anymore. That's the problem. Now it's two.
Speaker 1:It's like if you live in North Banca Nicolas. It's like spending days in the beach, the food.
Speaker 3:Especially for the competition, like carnival season stuff like that, it's like oh okay, you know what you're going to get. It was happening even outside the carnival season, or just like during carnival only. It was during carnival only. That was the main thing.
Speaker 2:But they would sing throughout the year they loved it, they sang throughout the year and they used to follow all the English island music. You know, and it was something that had to do with family a lot of the English island people that lived in San Nicolas, but it was wonderful, it's just like in curacao, but also, you know, with um tumba and so on.
Speaker 1:You know tanankos and and you're there just enjoying a different you're part of their culture and I was like you step into a different world during that time and you just enjoy it yeah, so that's why moving it was such a big deal for yeah this episode of electric me about something.
Speaker 3:No, I mean, you asked the question, we're giving you an answer, we're just giving you the answer, but it's true, but it's true, I am learning.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh shit, I didn't know this what I find. They're forcing it now to go a certain direction. No, let it flow.
Speaker 1:Let it be. Let it be what it is, guys.
Speaker 2:I'm singing each other. It was wonderful, do you?
Speaker 1:think I see them talking about like having no fuck. Oh my god, she's Juve, but in Playa. Yeah, let me see, bro, I triggered something. What are your thoughts on having Juve in Playa?
Speaker 2:let me shut the fuck up, yeah you talk like no sure you can jump in, maybe help him out you know you talk like no sure you can jump in Maybe help him out. You know the little things that we have in San Nicolas that people appreciate All over the island. You know they, Like I said, Force ripe it is something From San Nicolas. People enjoy Going to the Calypso contest In San Nicolas. People enjoy Going to the Juve morning In San Nicolas. Why do we have to Take every little thing that is successful in San Nicolas, take it out, force ripe it and then it fails when San Nicolas finally gets something.
Speaker 3:You finally get the hype.
Speaker 2:You're like, hey, it has to do with the language, the culture, the habits. Those things are important and you can't just take something you know and just put it anywhere or it will have to take years for it to meld on into your culture in, let's say, North by for a bit or you could just create your own North Sunset Parade.
Speaker 1:They created something nobody asked it's yours.
Speaker 3:It's yours y'all started that. It's yours, you'll keep that that's okay, it's yours.
Speaker 2:Y'all started that yeah, yeah, it's nice to go to. You know people in San Nicolas talk.
Speaker 1:You know the sunset parade, you know it's fun until you live in the area like fuck my mama. I remember one day I was going to work. Like fuck, they blocked all the roads. I ended up being late for work every freaking time. All right, cool, that was our little icebreaker segment. It went longer than expected. It really did. It really did Pero, so let's dive into some questions. We could keep it to that too.
Speaker 2:What. We could. Only keep it to that. No, let's keep this.
Speaker 3:I don't want Darren coming after you like ¿Quieres que me hable con el pandeo de mi no?
Speaker 1:we love Berensky. That is vocal. It's okay, we're also. We love him. I want to talk a little bit more about yourself as a politician, a little bit like how long have you been in politics? I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I joined the PPA party back in 2001 and you was a PPA yeah stay.
Speaker 3:Who are?
Speaker 2:they. Yeah, me and Anthony. All of us was on the list with Monica.
Speaker 3:Anthony, I remember, yeah, yeah, me and Monica Stoy, who were they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, mirto, a lot of us were on the list. Yeah, esmond Jones, all of us were.
Speaker 3:Oh shit, All of us were in 2001. Okay, okay, so then after that.
Speaker 2:After that sadly enough, you know people there kind of had a meltdown and almost everyone left and I wasn't going to continue in politics. Really.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was a question I had for you too.
Speaker 2:I had my own company doing very well. You know, I was active in the community and so on. My wife was very busy and you know a lot of friends kept talking to me. You know, go into politics. You know, help San Nicolas, because that was the main goal. Go into politics, you know, help San Nicolas, because that was the main goal. And after, you know, going back and forth, back and forth and evaluating it, I said okay, you know, we looked at all parties and different. You know, people came to me Most of my friends were always RPP or AVP and a good friend of mine, chris Damers, and also Melvin Trump. They were coming by me and talking to me and my other friends too, and then we decided to go on AVP. But it took a lot of talking, a lot of convincing.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Mike had to come to San Nicolas a good bit of time, sit down with a big group of people why this guy should go on your list and what are you going to do for San Nicolas? How can we, you know, be sure that you're gonna, you know, give the space and all of that? And that took a while, you know, but it still. It was a short time frame because I left PPA I think it was the ending of 2004 and in 2005 had the election. So then I decided, you know, to go. I was not in parliament, so I I was one of the food getters from ppa, but we ppa, for a while had zero seats. When we went on the list of ppa that year, we got two seats. And then, um, benny knees, bet defunto and glenn hill went because they were number one and number two. They went in parliament, correct, they took the seats. Yeah, ppa was growing very quick. It's a pity it had a meltdown, but anyway. Then we left and it dropped back. Since then it's, you know, zero, zero.
Speaker 1:It was a pity has PPA always been inactive until now.
Speaker 3:Inactive. No, they were last election, but this other lady took it over Malbach.
Speaker 2:They were always part of the election. It used to be the biggest party on the island.
Speaker 3:I heard this yesterday.
Speaker 2:They had 15 seats.
Speaker 3:Otmar told me this last night, I was surprised.
Speaker 2:I did not know Pippi, I was like.
Speaker 1:I thought it was always been AVP and MEP has been like a big dog. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:Before MEP it was AVP and PPR. You had Una Pia Pro and so on.
Speaker 1:They had different parties, but PPR was really Shit. I'm learning things today the same.
Speaker 2:So you had those two big parties, it was PPR.
Speaker 3:Wait, Mike, that means you jumped ship. You just went AVP, and that was the competition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but Hot dog, you know. But since in the 70s, when the map came to existence, the PPA kind of felt, you know, and became a small, small party. Oh shit, it was AVP and map. You know, that really were two big parties.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts now? I mean seeing someone who used to be part of your party back in the day now has the leader of PPL.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have no particular Like, no, nothing towards you right? No, you know everybody's free to go anywhere 100%. I think PPL had a bright future. It's a pity what happened back in 2004. You know since then 2004. Since then, ppa went backwards. To be honest, I don't know if they're going to make it this time. That's me personally.
Speaker 2:Of course, everyone has their own, but I always had sympathy for the PPA party as a San Nicolas party. Ppa was a party from all the islands and AFVP was a big party. Actually, the founders of the PP came out of the AVP okay you know, just like, like how you call it, the founders of the map came out of AVP too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's true actually everybody came out of AVP, everybody basically came out of AVP.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know so I went to AVP yeah, I'm gonna go go over there, help us out.
Speaker 2:I want to see what brought him there. I'm curious.
Speaker 1:How long have you been part of AVP though? So AVP since 2005.
Speaker 3:2004, 2005. Oh wow, so like 20 years.
Speaker 2:Then I went to the election and since then I've been or in parliament or as a minister, 20 years. Yeah, for years I always I left PPA. I doubled my votes in AFP. I went to the next election, doubled my votes again. Pearl, you better talk about them doubles. And then came a time when it dropped back.
Speaker 1:You don't want to give him a shout out now. A shout out for what? Well, you were shouting when it was dull, no, but.
Speaker 2:I always, you know it always says 2005 that I was, you know, active in the parliament. I always also took out myself, you know, the school vote preferential. So no cabello. You know I always had enough votes to be in parliament and at the end of the day, it depends If you're in government. The parliament will support you as a minister have you ever thought about leaving AFP?
Speaker 1:no, no I mean, I think at this point, if you leave, you're done you're done with politics you're like Michael Jordan the last time you're like this is it but I already fuck. I asked my question no, we all.
Speaker 2:But I already Fuck. I asked my question. No, I wanted to leave. No, no, we all were good. You know you learn a lot for sure in the AVP. You know the AVP has different foundations. You know the Mito, cruz, fundación, dignalakley. They do investigation, they create courses, give courses. Avp Party has a very strong and solid communication with the Netherlands and also in the region. Mike Amon, the leader of the party, is someone very politically driven. He knows the history, he studies it. He has very good contacts.
Speaker 1:I do have a question, and I don't mean this in a bad way.
Speaker 3:Nothing is a bad way. No, no, I know. But like, and I'm open to anything, yeah, no, because we don't talk. Some of us are like, oh disrespectful, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:But do you think that Mike is so in touch with?
Speaker 2:politics that he's lost, like focused on politics? No, no, he's very, he's very much involved with people. You know Mike goes all over the place. You know he not only goes to funerals, he goes to birthday parties yeah, he used to call me for my birthday.
Speaker 1:He still calls. I'm like who's this? The Mike Eman? Oh shit, what the fuck?
Speaker 2:you know he's go to church and so on. Yeah, he's very much involved and sometimes it's very difficult to understand how you can comprehend so much different input yeah you know, when you have different cultures talking to you, different people talking to you, people with different interests talking to you, and you got your brain got to.
Speaker 1:You know, be busy with all of that it can be pretty tough yeah you know, and and my overwhelming, yeah, all this weight you're putting on your shoulder and he likes to read a lot.
Speaker 2:Mike reads a lot of books and candle and so on. He follows a lot of documentaries, of words. You know, uh, he, you don't, you don't get, you don't be honest, you, you don't have many people like that walking around and all good and bad. Believe me, you don't have many people walking around you. You can talk to him on any subject you know, and in depth. You know what's very satisfying and you feel proud when I see mike talk to um like people from the us or europe or the region you know latin america, and he talks to them about simple things and he can go in depth on any subject.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he had general knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I can do it, but this guy, he's amazing, you know, he's really he's really I've never really got to like me have a couple.
Speaker 1:I'm happy accepted our invitation to come on the show yeah, so this is the first time ever like sit down conversation.
Speaker 3:You're gonna have fun with him. I hope so, so I have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 2:Some people were surprised that he accepted an invitation me too. When I got the email like on. You know you talk serious you would believe that he's very serious, and only on those topics. He's the craziest guy you know when it comes to making jokes and so on those topics. He's the craziest guy you know when it comes to making jokes and so on. He has a good sense of humor.
Speaker 3:He looks like he likes shit, though he looks like that type. Okay, so while we're on the topic of Avepe and San Nicolas and all this good stuff, right, this is a question I always want to ask this last election until I feel like pay more attention to it is why, or what's the reason, evp this time have so many candidates for San Nicolas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's something that I was always an advocate of, you know. You know, if you really want to bring change to particularly Paribas de Ibrox, then you really have to have sufficient representatives from Paribas de Ibrox. People that wake up with problems, people that go to sleep with problems, people that walk through with problems, that talk with problems. You know, look if you with problem. You know, look if we got any problem in North, I'm the last one to say and pretend that I know what's going about. I'll talk to my colleagues, they'll give me a heads up, we'll work on a solution. But if there is a problem in San Nicolas, I know the problem, you understand and so you need. So if you want to fix San Nicolas, you need representatives of San Nicolas.
Speaker 3:Okay, but then my thing is so, if you want to fix St Nicholas, you need representatives of St Nicholas. Okay, but then my thing is this Unfortunately, we never had enough.
Speaker 2:That's a big problem. Can you imagine I'll be in government, me alone as the minister. Can you imagine if during our time in government, we had three or four ministers from St Nicholas in that cabinet? You know how much stuff would have. More would have got done for Paribas de Brogues. It's just tremendous because it's where you live. When you go home at night, you go through the streets, you know what you meet the people every day. So if you're a minister of St Nicholas, you're going to do a lot for St Nicholas, for Aruba in general, but specifically for St Nicholas.
Speaker 2:Now, can you imagine when we were in government okay, I was the only guy in there. Okay, I'm not going to mention all the projects, but if you take from Yuvana Motor Complex, come down to Esso Heights, lago Heights, in the village, you know the Water Tower, the Carnival Village, the Esso, the Lago Heights Hill, the Jolavec Park, you know all the roads there, all the schools there, pushing to fix it. Minister of Finance sitting down with the Minister of Infrastructure, with the Minister of Justice, with the Minister of Economic Affairs, you know, come with the economic zone. Just one guy. Just imagine if we had now three guys, because remember we had nine ministers, one from St Nicholas and all eight from Pabau de Brugge. Now, imagine if we had now three, four from Paribas de Brugge, how much more could be done. That's why I tell people, give your representatives of Paribas de Brugge when you leave Paribas de Brugge, give them your support, because they know the problems we're going through.
Speaker 3:I agree on that. I just feel like, in that sense, I feel like it's kind of getting diluted a little bit, in the sense of, instead of going, even if it was three very, very, very strong ones, give these three the force to be like, hey look, these are who are going to participate and we're going to go all out, I would say all right, cool. But now I feel like it's just given a diluted situation where it's like, okay, we have like six different candidates, all of these six now getting individuals, small, small, small, votes for San Nicolas small, small, small, small, small. And I also feel like part of it is You're kind of shooting yourself in the foot by just campaigning for San Nicolas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Especially the newer ones.
Speaker 1:In your case you've been there, done that.
Speaker 3:Suave, we already know. Mike De Mesa, San Nicolas you stapled that already. Pero, for the other ones, now San Nicolas kind of know you already. You don't do much for San Nicolas because now you're in the field trying, you know, do some stuff. You're supposed to be campaigning outside of San Nicolas, and do some stuff. You're supposed to be campaigning outside of San Nicolas. You're supposed to be trying to look for all different ways for you to bring attention for people who are not from San Nicolas, who may be like I don't want to vote for other people. Look at this person, it's true.
Speaker 2:You have to anchor your base.
Speaker 3:I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2:We just had San Nicholas Business Association yeah we see that.
Speaker 2:Did you? 22 candidates were there. Only four were from St Nicholas Talking about St Nicholas problems. Yeah, we had 11 parties there. Only two parties. Who were you in? Two, two, two, three parties had candidates from St Nicholas From the 11 there Webb was there from Hattiesay, rudy Richardson was there from PPR and me and Otami. We got 100% AVP, got 100% candidates of Meb was there with two candidates that don't even come visit San Nicolas Evelyn and Dangier, with all respect to them, but that's to show you and the next thing we tell the people in San Nicolas many times you want San Nicolas to be fixed, give representation give power to your representatives.
Speaker 2:You vote for people you don't even know where they live in, but your own candidates. And when things go bad, who are you going to argue with? With your own candidates? But you're all voting for people all over the place and not for your own candidates. And that's a pity because, believe me, when you go to Santa Cruz, they vote for Santa Cruz. When you go to Mandeke, they vote for Mandeke. When you go to North, they vote North, go Mandeke, they vote for Mandeke. When you go for North, they vote North Paradera, but San Nicolas don't vote. San Nicolas, they get a couple of votes, but they vote in Nongdia.
Speaker 3:They vote not all I know but the thing is again, this is why I feel like people, especially in San Nicolas, get upset with the own people. For the same reason, it's because they want to do everything just blindly. Same reason is because they want to do everything just blindly, like everything is just like okay, yeah, let me just go go on. You do some research, not actually sit on your axis, put them like some tough questions. I'm like, okay, how you're gonna do this? Yeah, break it down for me how exactly this is gonna happen at that. No, they just want to be like I know they sound good. Yeah, look what it does. Chris romero, he found san nicolas. Yeah, look all of these. I don't want what. Yeah, kiko, san Nicolas, vote for them. But we could still say San Nicolas, vote for them.
Speaker 1:What I get.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah exactly. But they get enough, you know. I'll give you an example. Look at most of the parties there. Do they really have candidates of San Nicolas in the top?
Speaker 1:No, how many is in the top of ABP?
Speaker 2:In the top me Wait what's considered top.
Speaker 3:Top 10, top 5.
Speaker 2:Yeah, top 5, top 10. And I'm there. What's his name? Mervyn White-Russ is from actually Paribas. She's there, wendrik is from. Paribas. He's there. Clifford Heilecher is from Paribas.
Speaker 3:He's there. Otami is there. Clifford Heiliger is from Paribas. He's there. Otami is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, chris, so you have more weight. No, you have more weight, but if you take like a big party like the MAP. The first candidate from San Nicolas is number 10. That's Alvin Molina, no one else in there. And then you have a forum and you don't even Send him there. And that's yammer, you know, because I mean, if anybody in there Among them Knows something About San Nicolas, it's Alvin.
Speaker 3:But then that just Reflects back on he. At the end of the day, he and his party, 100%. But you Especially, he, especially for a night Like that, for something for San Nicolas that just shows that hey yo. Alvin he clearly don't care that much, or whatever.
Speaker 2:But maybe he cares, but maybe the other ones remember at election time.
Speaker 3:Nah, sorry, that's some bullshit. My guy gave a fuck. No, but listen to what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 2:Listen to what I'm gonna say Listen, they're all cannibalizing. So what they want to do, they want to be there because they want to get those votes. They forget that they got a representative from San Nicolas. Let them get the votes. Let them come talk to the party.
Speaker 3:They want their face to be out there.
Speaker 2:They're pushing everybody away because they just want it, but who followed that one, though. Yeah, okay. Who followed that one.
Speaker 3:Okay, he's going to take a side, you're going to, you gonna fight for your rights. If you say, hey, what the fuck is this? You wanna send somebody else in my place. Yeah, I know what you mean I wish a bitch would. Oh whoa, I know what you mean, but that again it just goes to show who really try and fight and who ain't really put it in the esfuerzo.
Speaker 1:Maybe they also won't have control on this guy because maybe they feel like that tells me everything already. But then it comes to the point of like, okay, that's seven on the list, so we can gather like what? 500 votes for Nicolas, yeah, yeah, Because I feel like a lot of people on the list. Yes, you have a vision, you want to do something. But I see politic groups like, hey, we're going to put this guy here because I know we can get about a thousand votes from him.
Speaker 3:Much of fill, so I'm like I'm number 18.
Speaker 1:I'm like again I'm number 18. But like you're, like, what kind of impact are you going to make? Because, at the end of the day, you're not even going to be in parliament. There's not even 18 fucking seats. You know what I mean. So that that's my issue.
Speaker 3:Like, like same with this guy.
Speaker 1:Like how even get a seat in there? You?
Speaker 2:know, or in government, like in minister, whatever you know, and and then you listen to the questions. Yeah, to me it was yammer. And and to talk about, about the program?
Speaker 3:no, no, no, the program have to update themselves to like no, you have to stop this.
Speaker 1:I try to watch it like, I went on youtube, couldn't see it. I went on facebook. It was a mad website, nada. I'm like did this shit even happen? Like all and all, all I go on Facebook trash, trash, trash, horrible, horrible. I'm like, what the fuck happened? They should have called me, I could have done it for them.
Speaker 2:You know what was hurtful, painful, everybody talked, with these great, beautiful plans for San Nicolas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which we're going to dive into.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then after election you don't see them no more, you're not in. Come back after four years, mike, that's every election.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a bunch of promises, how much does Gary make about this shit?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Like yeah, yeah, or he's doing shit and I mean to say, everybody had an opportunity.
Speaker 2:New politicians will get the opportunity. Of course, they haven't got it it. But those that have got, look at the track record. Yeah, what have they done when they were there? And if they want to talk, san nicolas, what did they do for san nicolas when they were there? Those that weren't there yet in the position of executive, you know to, okay, you spare them because they have not been there. Yeah, you know. But um, but change, change the style, I mean to say. I'll give you an example. Yeah, a quick example. We have a big problem with the refinery there. Everybody's talking about these great plans for the refinery area.
Speaker 1:I want to stop you for one second. Because I know we're going to go deep on this.
Speaker 3:It's a question. It is, it's a question.
Speaker 1:So hold this thought I will. Let's jump into a segment with Ahata.
Speaker 3:Okay, and then we can fucking go on this. That's a good one. That's a good one. I literally look over.
Speaker 1:I'm like, what the fuck? 37 minutes yeah, that's crazy. Time is going.
Speaker 3:Okay, let's go. This conversation is amazing. I'm loving this. Let's go, let's go. So, guys, this is a segment by Ahata.
Speaker 1:Sorry, first question from Ahata. What is your vision for the future of Aruba's economic?
Speaker 2:pillar tourism, considering the need to avoid over-tourism. Yeah, one thing we have to do is come with a hotel fax code. Okay, I'm just saying that. Isn't APE Horeca no no Full-blown hotel fax code. You know the way it should be.
Speaker 1:Like the one in Dutch A hotel fax code no. No, full-blown hotel, vaxco. Okay, you know the way it should be. Like the one in Dutch, like the new Saab, like Bushiri.
Speaker 2:Bushiri, bushiri, yeah, hotel Vaxco. It was necessary at the beginning of tourism in Aruba and it did wonderful for Aruba. Okay, we have to come back with it, because even when we bring people, from abroad you know, sometimes we bring people from with 30 years, 40 years, 50 years with no tourist background. We just push them with something around. You know uniform.
Speaker 1:Go manage the people.
Speaker 2:No, we need to come with it and it needs to be put in San Nicolas, the Hotel Foxhole.
Speaker 1:You know We've talked about this, I think, with other people on the show Like have a school over there that brings in people from?
Speaker 2:Yes, but put it in San Nicolas Hotel Foxhole.
Speaker 1:Where would?
Speaker 3:you put it.
Speaker 2:In San Nicolas. You could put it anywhere. You know you could put it anywhere. There are different places. We can put it, you know, in San Nicolas we can do that, maybe a little closer to downtown fine, because then it has a spin-off. You know We'll have enough terrain, you know. So we could do that, you know. That's one. Two the government has been fooling itself with civil workers. That's has been full in itself with civil workers. That has to stop. Aruba, the spending of government personnel is surpassing Nicosia In ratio per capita. It surpasses the Netherlands Relatively. But regionally too. I have a custom. I know it. I know it so well and I'm here as a politician and I know you. I know you and I'm here as a politician, so I'm not here to break any party, but I know you and Mike listen.
Speaker 3:I think it's being self-taught and you're talking because this is your vote, so you're talking about me, and that cannot continue.
Speaker 2:And so that's why the Netherlands told them in the land package, you've got to bring down your personnel. It is just too much. You need to bring it down. And when you do that, you can also enter the border for a little bit. And then you have the secondary school, high school, the government, the government base holding omsk, holding paestanko, de salife e gobiardo, you know, so you can let them go into the tourist sector, you know, and we will need people from abroad. We will, for us to be able to sustain our pension funds and so on. We will need more people, because if you look at the FUG Racing, the last kids are being born and you have a lot of people going on pension. And the pension that you have from SVB is pay as you go. So those that work today pay for those that are there tomorrow. So you're not saving like the APFA and so on. You're saving it. You're saving it for the pension. You're saving it for the interest For cover costs, but also to make sure that you have a plate for your robot, but not for the SVB. If you're a laborer, you pay for your pension. You don't have to pay anything. But imagine that before the pyramid was like this If you didn't have a pension, you had a small group.
Speaker 2:80% of the salaries are all minimum load. That's one of the issues that you always have in comparison with a refinery. In a refinery, 80% was high salaries and maybe 20% were marginal. In the hotel business, the 20% is high salary and 80% is marginal, and that cannot continue. The Arab is doing so good in tourism Too good, yes and that the people barely see the money of that economy reaching by their home. So if you want to fix tourism, let's start by making sure the human resource a human resource is also a good thing Respected. Yeah, yeah. People can't be working two, three jobs for them to make a month end.
Speaker 1:That's impossible, trying to survive in general. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So those things we need to focus on. We need to sit down with the ATAS and AHATAS and make sure we get to these basic things before we think on anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right, all right let's move on to the next question how would your government help solve the labor shortage that exist in all economic sectors?
Speaker 2:not just tourism, yeah, but it's a lot. It's almost 30,000.
Speaker 1:30,000 what?
Speaker 2:People that you're going to need To fill in all the gaps. Yeah, 15,000, 16,000 for the tourist sector.
Speaker 1:So you're telling me everybody in Aruba has a job. I feel like there's a lot of unemployment. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:But we just keep bringing people inside. We don't focus on the labor people that we have. The unemployment rate is not that high, you know, but we do have a lot of people without a job, you know. We have to sit down with people from the sector, private sector and see what the needs are, Because what we're teaching kids is not really what they're looking for in the labor market.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:You know you teach those that got to be on standard when they go to study, but we also need to teach those that are staying here to go and help us with the labor market. And don't see me saying don't have STEM, and have STEM is nothing.
Speaker 1:Maybe this is where the hotel school comes, in that you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Actually bring skills about, like agriculture, tourism. I was going to say things that we actually like hey, what's up. We need more farmers, we need more this. People that knows about um solar panels, people I know about how hydro whatever when whatever but when is that going to be fruitful? I'm holding if they, you know, bringing the whole, changing the whole way we get electricity.
Speaker 3:You know, now I get all of that I'm saying, like, when is all of this like to even get the school, get the kids to start studying? This is like a project for like seven years or something. It's a long-term thing for sure, but they have to start with it from now.
Speaker 2:You know, and at the same time we have to really we have to cooperate with the hotel sector, the finance sector and so on that need all of these people to bring in people. But we can't bring people that are mid-age or old. We have to bring them in on a pretty younger age.
Speaker 1:Of course, and they're 30s or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're more spongy, you know, learn a lot more about our history and culture and stuff like that. They're more open for new ideas and so on. But they have more time to build a good pension. Because if you look at a lot of people that came to Aruba back in the 80s and the 90s okay, and all of them came in with 45 years, 50 years old. Today they're suffering, living in poverty, because they just get 300 florin a month. 500 florin, you understand.
Speaker 1:What do you pay with that Nothing.
Speaker 2:See, nada, and they live in poverty. They really live in poverty, you know, and it costs the government a lot of money, as it pays a lot of money, because when you live in poverty, you have social problems, you get.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not that you're bad, you're more frequent the bigger things you accumulate you're to accumulate if I have three young people I think they are older, they are younger, they are more punchy and so forth and open minded and so on and so on, but you educate them, but you make them more mature and so on, and when they get to retirement age they can build up a good pension, you know, and then it's okay.
Speaker 2:So that's where we have to feel and we have to do a short, mid-long and long-term planning.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what I was about to say. You guys are focusing more on a long-term solution than just like a five-year plan. It's just like a 15-year plan, for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Now, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, we have to do this together with the market.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, with all respect to antennaren, okay, in the Aljamenta, they don't understand what happens there. You know, I tell them….
Speaker 1:To be honest, sometimes I hear it from a chart. I sometimes don't even know what's happening. Maybe I don't feel it, or maybe it's because I also put myself in positions where I'm like that doesn't happen to me, it's not going to happen to me because I overwork myself so much. I'm like I'm not going to be like this. I remember being a kid driving to school. I would see certain people. I'm like that's just not what I'm going to.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to be like that. That can't happen.
Speaker 1:That's why I'd rather have a mental breakdown in my office. So that's why maybe I don't. When I hear things like this, I'm like, oh damn, when you move around in Kampai.
Speaker 2:You see things that I'm not young anymore. You know I've got some age on me.
Speaker 1:You're not young at all, man Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2:So I've seen different decadence, you know, yeah, and what we see today is how do you call it? Frightening? It's extreme Walls, broken doors at houses. People cannot even fix the basic things of their home, you know, you know. They don't even know which party you're from. You ask them. They can't even get their medicine because their medicine is cut my grandma, to be honest.
Speaker 1:I'm like what do you want for lunch today?
Speaker 2:I'm going to pick you up real quick and you go stand by the door and you see inside the house. It gives you a realization. They ain't talking bullshit. I'm going to pick you up real quick and you go stand by the door and you see inside the house.
Speaker 3:You know it gives you a realization of what the fuck is going on, like they ain't talking bullshit yeah yeah, and that is a quality of the government.
Speaker 2:You cannot have a government saying you see, a surplus economy is good, super good has a big surplus.
Speaker 2:Why don't you do it with ice, with water in your eyes? Yeah, but the way eyes with water in your eyes. But to walk in there, or misali, here they are, me and me going to join jam and these guys and we walk together for them to, and they would tell me boy, I can't believe this thing. Normally you see the house from outside, you don't stop off and go inside, but when you campaign, you really got to go talk, go inside.
Speaker 2:And they tell me like this is not right, and this is not right, and this is not right.
Speaker 1:And that's okay good.
Speaker 3:I'm going to keep talking about it tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Mike Demesa show Okay, next question. Well, it's more like we want to go back to like, let's talk about San Nicolas a little bit. What, for you right now, is the biggest problem in San Nicolas?
Speaker 2:Aside from poverty, because let's tackle that already. You know there needs to be infrastructural changes in San Nicolas Like what.
Speaker 2:San Nicolas is very dirty. There's a lot of sushi. The rest of it is also dirty, but the sushi data is enormous. The infrastructure is decaying. The facilities are not being maintained, the schools are too big, the 8-year sports facilities are not being maintained. The schools are falling. 8 people are not being maintained, so we don't have. How do you say we don't have a perspective at the moment? We have a refinery to eat. We don't have another, but you could literally sit down. I could show you and tell you that stack there. In two weeks' time it will be dropping down.
Speaker 3:From Rogers Beach just seeing the one fall in the water already. Really, it's just breaking down. Nobody comes and fucking cleans it up picks it up, that contaminates also the ocean, right, oh yeah, and they want to talk about.
Speaker 1:It's a protected area by the law. Why there's that fucking rustic tube in the water Right there. Oh, that's for the fish. Yeah, fuck the fish. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:So you know. And services? You know. The government barely has any services in San Nicolas. Help us use the office. There's no problem with that. Thank God, I think that we have a third RDA building where we can build a location, but that's it. A woman can't stand up and say what are you doing, st Nicholas? I mean to say, what are we busy with? We're just killing. We're killing St Nicholas. Now. That's why you need representatives from St Nicholas that will take a stand and tell the government no, no, no. There's a different way that leads to Rome, not that road.
Speaker 2:That's why you need strong, strong candidates from San Nicolas.
Speaker 1:You think the ones, not strong candidates.
Speaker 3:I don't think everybody is. Honestly, I feel like it could have been way better. I feel like there are strong ones and I feel like the time that we take to just add people on a list, we could have really take the time that we take to just add people on a list, yeah, we could have really take the time to be like, hey, listen and and this is this is where I have not an issue with every people it's just like I just like damn, like we could do so much more in the sense of, we know, eventually, election coming up, yeah, yeah, when the time was short because we had a lot of time it was, but at the same time you wasn't interim either.
Speaker 3:Time time is a thing. If you don't have time, who are we going to start with? And let me just train them up.
Speaker 2:But there are politicians, young politicians or right-wing politicians who put flower out, 100% Top politicians 100%.
Speaker 3:So we're going to make sure to press them 100%, you guys are prepping the next you the next them, the next them.
Speaker 2:You guys already started doing it already, that's the reason why I made sure also that Otami was there part of the debate 100%. The next thing that San Nicolas needs also is incentives.
Speaker 1:What's a good incentive you think it needs right now Tax incentive for commerce. Okay, not just the Nicholas, please, because I'm going to move to San.
Speaker 2:Diego. The cost of doing business has been going up. It's everywhere. Dramatically in Aruba.
Speaker 1:If I knew it was going to be like this, I would have never done this fucking business. I would just stay at Augusta.
Speaker 2:But at least a Kibana. You have a flow of people, correct. In San Nicolas. You have a store and you sit down and you wait. Everybody is working down here.
Speaker 1:Tell me about it. And everybody just like drives to San Nicolas to get to Baby Beach, for example. Oh, we're going to meet from New York.
Speaker 2:Because usually that's the money, what you have saved. If you want to do a business that could take you through six months, but you need more than that you need traffic in the area. I feel like it's what San Nicolas needs.
Speaker 3:We need way more social activities, after school programs for children. Things need to be free. It need to have certain things. Not everything don't need need to be free. It need to have certain things. Not everything don't need to be free, but it need to have certain things, like back in the days we used to have, like Friday, rama and all this type of extra things.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, friday Rama, like Karubian Friday Rama, karubian Karubian festival.
Speaker 1:All these other festivals around Miami. Nothing was sustainable. Drama on Friday.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, Not like that.
Speaker 2:No, but we need departments from the government to be open in San Nicolas and those departments don't necessarily need to be in town. They're not location abundant. Put some in San Nicolas. That guy that goes there, he buys a pastiche before he goes home. He goes in a supermarket, he spends some money up there Are they government people?
Speaker 1:Yeah, like a government office, so people who are working in government can like hey, you know what I'm going to work from here today. I'm not going to come to this office, yeah.
Speaker 2:Or you have certain offices there In San Nicolas. That's where they're located, because San Nicolas people you have to go down.
Speaker 3:Give people land A reason to go.
Speaker 2:Yes, give people also land to build houses so we can get back some of that buying power, Okay, and give them good land. You know it had a time that if you want a piece of land in San Nicolas, you got 400 square meters, but if you want 700 meters or 800 square meters, they. So now somebody that has a good paying job. They say, no, I'm going to do something bigger.
Speaker 2:But what you're doing you're pushing them there You're pushing them to buy power for San Nicolas, and that's a shame. Structurally, this is the dismantling of San Nicolas. It's a political variety and, again, that's why we need representatives from San Nicolas to be there to fight for us, because we really do, really.
Speaker 3:I agree, I never said we don't.
Speaker 1:I definitely agree. I want to think about the refinery. I have a question from one of our followers. Most of these questions are from people who watch the show. What happens if a refinery? What happens if a refinery different agreement is signed and nothing ever happens? I mean, most of these questions are from people who watch the show and you know it actually needs to happen. So what's?
Speaker 2:your opinion on this. It's a pity what happened with a refinery when we got in government in 2009 yeah the refinery has shut down its operation.
Speaker 2:They terminated their relationship with all contractors and they were busy in June. They did that in February, march and in June sometime going up, they were going to let go the people. You know we went to the election. When we won the election, we got a call from the CEO, president of the board of Valero. Bill Klessy Told us you know, we know, you guys won the election, you guys are going to sit down, but we're going to send our lawyers to come down and settle and terminate everything. We told them hold on, give us a chance. We believe that we can sit with you and come to an agreement to keep the refinery there.
Speaker 2:He didn't believe in it. He sat with us. We came to agreements and we opened the refinery back, but it took. It had its time and then we had to take away the baby oil from an export. It's ridiculous. Nowhere in the world. You have it. You know, and they told the government of MEP back then in 2006,. If you do that, we're going to terminate our operation because it's an unfair tax that you have nowhere.
Speaker 2:So you put a disadvantage compared to your competitors. They didn't believe it. It happened. Anyway, by the time we got them so far to open the refinery, back at the end of 2010,. So many things was left unattended to that the market just switched and they could not cope with it. They kept their tell March 2012 and then they said we're losing too much money. They were losing like 40, 60 million a month dollars, you know, and it was gone, yammer, because these guys, they were going to invest about $3 billion in 2005 when they came to Aruba and they took over from El Paso. They wanted to do it and when the government of MAP came with a baby over there, they said no, they took that money and put it in another refinery complex in the States. And it's a shame. It's just a waste of opportunity Because the people don't know. They don't know about the industry. It's just crazy. They put it in the BBO, they put it in the industry. They're killing the industry. It's just crazy. They offer them to pay regular, normal tax incomes, wind's blasting and whatnot. No, no, stepayas is aquí, and they kill it. Okay, fine, we got a government.
Speaker 2:We flew all over the world, talked to Petrochina so many times. We talked to Nigeria. We talked to the Arabic countries. We went Colombia. We went Venezuela. We went Trinidad. We went Colombia. We went Venezuela. We went Trinidad. We went Brazil. I went all over the place. I went even to Exxon and Shell Trying to negotiate some ideas. Yeah, we got CEDCO, and CEDCO is an American-based and founded company that was owned on shares by PDVSA. But PDVSA just was handing out the plates and they were like put an American line on the line where it was. And that's what's important for us that we build a company, an American-based company. So we got everything in place.
Speaker 2:When I started working, I would go out and say I'm going to work, and my mother and father would come to work and think starting with me In the beginning, we went out of the government. We had a lot of people, we had a lot of family members, we worked and then it was over. From the very beginning, we were in the government where the first instructions were given by the first minister, evelina Evi Cruz, to take us out on black and white. Ok, I was the energy minister In the office of the father she used to represent as a lawyer, saying go and sign. Why? Because the AVP came with it. This is good for Ruba. When in the old days he got coastal, the AVP came in government and we continue with coastal.
Speaker 1:But they have this mind that, no, you do it, so we want it. But that's the problem. We always see like we always talk about this like this is a great idea for aruba or coin map. I've been conned. I'm sorry I have you. Have you conned? Put it to the side too. I have an idea um mapping with it. I've I've been to move it to the side. It's a recycle of like no, no, I don't like like, bro. Why can't we all just come together and like?
Speaker 3:let's do what's best for our room A fucking Pueblo, because that's who I'm working for and at the end of the day, it's our money.
Speaker 2:And you know what's? What's bad is that the thing is Kibra has a contract, covid in June 2020. Culture is worried about COVID, and then we have to make a decision to dismantle the refinery, and then we have to make a decision to dismantle the refinery, and then we have to make a decision to dismantle the refinery, and then we have to make a decision to dismantle the refinery.
Speaker 1:So you don't even have that billions of dollars that they wanted to invest, where would the money have gone to? As like fixing up the refinery?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they would have built, you know, supreme Units. You know, pass the LMS, go to hydrocrackers. You know, make gasoline plants, whatever you know, it's just to be more competitive, be more diverse.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this question since, because we're talking about refinery and gasoline and all that stuff. But I feel like a lot of other parties correct me if I'm wrong are really focusing on, you know, solar, wind energy. We did it, we came with solar, but okay, but then you think the refinery would be like very contradicting yo we?
Speaker 2:said as long as the refinery has. Yo yeah, we said as long as the refinery has its right of existence, you use it and we're going to go 100% on alternative energy outside of the refinery.
Speaker 1:So you would do both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's going to take some years and eventually the refinery will have to convert itself on natural gas and all of that stuff too, of course you know. So it was two things, because there's a lot of changes in the world, but still everything in here over 90% of everything in here is made of fossil fuel, even your phone, everything, the table.
Speaker 1:When you cut it, you need energy.
Speaker 2:Even the chewing gums that you eat comes out of the ground oil, god damn it.
Speaker 1:The real much chewing gum, it's true.
Speaker 2:Everything the glasses and everything. So 50% of the oil is used for production of goods we need it.
Speaker 1:That's the it and the other 50% is energy.
Speaker 2:So the energy part is going to go lower and eventually, maybe sometime down the road when we find other ways, we're going to have, you know, ground stuff to make products and so forth. But so we came with a whole. It's a habit of people they don't know how to share, they share together. They don't know how to do it with the APB, with the API, with the Fossils Special, with the NASA, with the LED lights, with the Tureco. They don't know how to do it with the Green Conference. That was something out of this world. It's not happening anymore, right? No, they stopped everything. We came with the changes.
Speaker 1:We built the biggest solar pack in the Caribbean. I was about to say that. Didn't Richard Branson come to Aruba? Yes, because of us.
Speaker 2:But also Joe Kennedy came for that. Also, al Gore came for that. We had Clinton Damn, you know all his speeches in the conference. The CREF is the biggest Caribbean energy forum. Came to Aruba. Where is this today? Where is this solar? It's all gone. They have not put one solar panel. We built a solar panel at the airport, right which to show this is you guys. We guys did it, I did a groundbreaking and it fell on me, talk about it, take a picture.
Speaker 1:All right, here we go. Mike, you better talk about the accomplishment.
Speaker 2:We did it for the tourists to also see. Oh, it has a very green energy yes. And then that was the biggest solar park, what the?
Speaker 2:fuck yeah. And then we built the biggest solar park in Lago Heights behind Jerry Wong House. There is where you're going, kamini, right in the back. There it got the biggest solar park in the Caribbean. Really, yes, it was finalized when the government changed. Because we built it. We have never exposed it to show that we have the biggest solar park right there in San Nicolas and La Guay. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah right there, I can show you Anytime. You just go up before you turn, go by Camino. You can look right there and you'll see the whole thing there. We were going to make a park so you could walk and go see it.
Speaker 1:So going to make a park, so you got to walk and go see so the kids them could see if you could walk around it. It's huge. It's at least two times bigger than the one at the airport. Okay, it's huge, I have no idea. You know, if you get something like this, how would that help the community?
Speaker 2:like by lowering, everybody gets energy stabilize it, to start with stabilizing the swings in the fuel oil. Yeah, you know, because when it goes, so you don't need it. So you got got this, but then you do more, that will drop, you know, because you don't need it. It's cheaper. Solar, if you look at the price of a kilowatt hour today might cost you, let's say, 22 cents dollar cents by four mil on fuel. But on windmill it might be around 10 cents. You know, with solar it might be around eight cents. So it's like double less. But you have to do the investment. They have to pay for it. So it's it's. It's a whole economic platter that you have to make.
Speaker 3:Just to add to this, it have. I remember watching the forum from san jose business association. I remember if I'm not mistaken I think it was marisol she bring up the key, the case that, um, the hope, having the refinery open was not a healthy choice for like children and all these type of things, especially like when the wind turned, and all these type of things. Schools used to close and all that. So you still believe that we should open a refinery.
Speaker 2:No, no, refinery is done, okay, and we're going to dismantle it. Guarantee, we're not going to waste no time on that. We get in government, we're going to sit at the table, because one of the big problems we have is how are we going to dismantle? Everybody's talking I want to put a yacht club. I want to put this. You're going to get on that too. Yeah, how are you going to build that on that? So you have to dismantle it first.
Speaker 2:Do a whole cleanup, yes, but we first have to do a whole investigation. We will go simultaneously with sitting with international renowned companies that are willing. They have companies that clear brownfields, you know, make them. We're going to do that, but we're going to keep whoever is responsible for letting and then it stays there. But the boutique will be like this, together with the Cinta boutique. It goes in this direction and it goes. We're going to do that, but we're going to keep whoever is responsible for letting Sitco go with over 300 millions, because that's 300 millions from Aruba that they've gone with. I don't know if anybody got the finance fee or if money was put in pockets or where it went, but we're going to, and if that means that we've got to bring Sitka to court, we will bring them to court To get the money back. But if that means also that we have to hold the director from RDA, the minister president, who is the minister for energy, we will keep them, because that is what happened In a hundred years.
Speaker 2:It never happened. Everybody always respected that. The operator will have to dismantle if he doesn't operate it no more and the island doesn't want it no more. So there's no way. I mean, exxon had it, coastal had it, el Paso had it, valero had it, setco had it. Now you're going to sit down and let them go with that money. It's a criminal against Bob Pueblo.
Speaker 2:That cannot take place, but we know to come back. We have a lot of ideas what you could do on the land, but let's do things very responsible. The first thing is let's solve that problem and let's dismantle that. After that, if I'm not in politics and you guys are in politics as I was speaking you can do with the land. What should be done?
Speaker 3:all those great ideas you want to put a coal island on it.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, put a coal island on it, please don't. But don't tell me today that you're going to build this, you're going to build that and you want to do it in four years impossible, because you'll just be blowing smoke yeah, you know it's not realistic.
Speaker 2:You're lying to eight years the promise or a zero hydrogen valley, modular refinery, all kind of crazy thing, how you call it, fast ferries, san Nicolas port listen, we could barely, as an island, have one port, container port, which we need Because these things weigh disproportionately on a small economy. You know, we could put 3, 4 airports in the Netherlands, but we could put 18, 19 million in there here in Aruba. If we don't have an airport, tourism is dead. But we have to maintain a full airport. If it's a big country, we have it, but it's small, we need to have a brand, we need to have a police body, we need a hospital, we need a Kia, we need a wealthy container. These things weigh disproportionately on a small economy. So now, when people start telling you oh, we're going to open a second container port in San Nicolas.
Speaker 2:They're just fooling you.
Speaker 1:That is the lie. When I saw that, I'm like it's great, a great idea.
Speaker 2:It is who's going to pay?
Speaker 1:for it. Not just that, the biggest problem right now everybody's bitching about is, like too many tourism, mass tourism. What's the plan? A new cruise port? I'm like, what the fuck that doesn't even make sense.
Speaker 2:So you say it's too many, and now you're still.
Speaker 3:Let's bring in more.
Speaker 1:Let's bring in right now, because I do want to talk about like, um, how much time we have, because I think it'll fucking matter if they're another segment, right? Yeah, we'll get there we go the time over here.
Speaker 3:I'm looking over here we're like an hour and 10 minutes in. I wanted to ask a question but but I want I want to talk about more about your party right now.
Speaker 1:it's something that I think I'm sure people have been asking here and there, but I I want to ask was the whole thing of what?
Speaker 3:I feel like I know where you're going to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wait.
Speaker 3:Is that your question? It really was.
Speaker 1:The whole bot release and stuff. It really was Okay, go, go, go, okay. So Give me some short attitude, though, hold up, hold up, hold up, give me some short attitude.
Speaker 3:Okay, we have to break this down. Word of the Screets was okay, this is what the Screets said. Apparently, wendrick was supposed to be number six originally you have to quote me. Yet you have to quote me. Yet he was allegedly supposed to be number six, sivinger number five and then the list of number four, something like that. So you get a little bit up.
Speaker 3:Anyways, eventually, the Thursday before the entregamento de lista, it came apart. It came apart. It came apart with ah no, it's been a long time, the VB is taking a long time. Yada, yada, yada, the list is not coming out. Finally, I need to look. We got something, all right. Then, allegedly, wendrick was number two supposed to be, or something like that. Then, allegedly, we on now, did integralista, no, saboltercos went to cabina number uno and apparently nobody didn't notice, only Wendrick and Mike Eman. And allegedly it's being said that that was basically a FU to Mike De Mesa and that was since allegedly Oli was the ones that make the biggest scene. I was like a constant, like no, he can't get number two. What is this? Yada, yada. I can't remember how true is this? It's not true, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:You know you're busy as a leader. You know you're busy getting to making your list. You know, and we're talking okay, what are we? Thing that was always in our head for younging, you know candidato na novo. In 2021, I think we had like 50 new candidates, you know. And in 2024, now I think we have like I might be wrong, maybe 50 new candidates again. So actually you almost take the whole party and the ball away. So for young people, it's never an issue. Always, you don't want to look at the new dream, the politics. There is a list of awards. I'm always a team player, believe me. There is a list of awards. I always consult with them. What do you think? I'm always there to support in any way.
Speaker 2:There is a moment when you have to show your base. You have to let go of the vote but go ahead, which is good Because you have to do overreaching. You have to do it and it's your experience. But if you don't share your experience, you're not going to make it. You're's a lot of Hobbenen's game Without experience, you're not going to make it. You're going to be hitting your head the whole time. You know. You know your parents guide you 10%. You know, okay. But you can say, there's a moment when the game is like okay, we're going to show you how to put more, you know.
Speaker 3:Hobbenen.
Speaker 2:You have to think okay, if you don't buy a real monster, you don't need to put more. You see, young boy, you have an idea. You see, kiko, put Wendrick number two. Who do you want? I mean this man, this man, mike, that's his photo.
Speaker 2:Mike, a puppy, go sure, why not Put me number three? He wanted me to go number three. Then we had number three, we. But we have dollars too, we need no problem. Put me number four. Then we say, hey, but let's put the next young one, all young, you all See. Okay, put me number five. And then we said, but we also have those that were there. You want to move them in the front? So how about that? I said, okay, if you want that, put me number six. So I had no discussion whatsoever in that. So when the list was presented the night of Thursday you know it was a list I was number five or six, you know, moving in the back. So we have it. But then it had some and Dawes was very quiet. Dawes had no argument with Wendrick and so forth. I take a day.
Speaker 2:Wendrick got my position with no problem, you know. So then it had some issues. You know people say is that well slim? Is there a debate around it? You know, to change. Are you pushing people too much in the front which might hurt themselves if you spread them too thin? You know, yeah, and too much of a response. So it had all kind of discussion and then came to the moment that they said you know what, okay, let's reshovel thing Not on my account because I was there. And then they say, yeah, let's go look at, okay, how much experience, how much vote you had and stuff like that, and came with a proposition. You know, mike, you should be number two. You know number three, put, I think, sievinger number four, put Mervyn number five and Wendrick number six.
Speaker 2:That was that night approved. And Mike did say, yeah, we've got to show more commitment to getting the younger folks, the new generation, into politics. And he even proposed that night how about I go number 29? Everybody was like whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me evaluate that. You know it's not an easy process, you know. You know it's not an easy process at all and, believe me, no party goes through this easy. They may come outside and pretend hey.
Speaker 2:I'm good but believe me, everybody wants to be in a position, a good sitting so it's normal. Everyone is a hero in his own mind. So you want to be there and we did that and talked to Mike and talked to everybody. We were ok. And having these discussions are not ungesund it's good to have debates, that's something. And having these discussions are not un-gazon they're gazon. It's good to have debates between your party?
Speaker 3:Yes, you should be open.
Speaker 2:That's something you know. We grew up in Aruba. Everybody got to get how the teachers used to be, while if you look at the Netherlands and the States, they stimulate the people there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like ask questions, give your opinion, be critical, you know.
Speaker 2:Open it because you get a better product out of that. So then came, you know, that discussion Okay, what are we going to do? And then finally it came down to that list that was Intriga and Mike was, you know, thinking about it, and throughout the night, you know, he talked to different people, he didn't just take it on his own and say stop it me and F anybody.
Speaker 3:No, that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2:But he decided no, let me do that, you know. And when he decided to do that it was definitely and everybody said okay, let's do it, let's go, you know. So I had no part in that discussion at all Because everybody thought that I had a problem.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. No, the script was definitely saying you and Dawes, and then Dawes. The next day went post.
Speaker 1:I experienced that the next day when I'm posted. I experienced the account. Yeah, yeah, that's the question. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I felt it. What was with the whole Dower slogan? I experienced the account.
Speaker 2:I think the reason that he did that was to tell everyone that don't think it's as easy as many think it is. You're trying to negotiate. You're trying I don't know what it is. I'm going to the other coast, I'm going to Costa Baicana. The experience is necessary, but it's important. I've been when I got into politics. Thank God it had people experience there, because I'm pretty sure we would have not been able to do many things. It doesn't mean to say and the experience is, I was not young, I was not young and you are not like that and the other thing is that you are going to drag it over For them. It is not much easier. They don't want it to be easier.
Speaker 2:Experience you know you have to be there, you have to eat, you have to scoop. Now I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop in a platform in the Netherlands. To stop at a platform in the Netherlands. A meter From there you look like a black dot. So every time you look bigger. But with time you see it. Sometimes you see a train coming. If you never see it, the moment you realize it's a train, you're done. So experience is important. People need to tell you you have to see it. So it's a combination. I love it Young generation with the energy and the new ideas, together with the older folks that have the experience. You combine that together, you've got a solid, dynamic team.
Speaker 3:So if you feel like, let's say, otami Savius is a strong candidate for San Nicolas, why did you not then fight to have another strong candidate? Since you say you need more representation, especially for yourself, to have her at least in the say like you need more representation, especially for yourself to have at least in the top 10. Yeah, yeah, we did.
Speaker 2:That's why you have Mervyn there. You have Clifford there, you know, you have Clifford, clifford.
Speaker 3:Hey Clifford.
Speaker 2:You have Clifford. I think he's number seven. I think you have sorry. Otami is 11, no 10. Otami is, I have no idea 11 everything tweets, yeah, yeah, yeah, 11 and Otami will get every time. Believe me, she's gonna be a powerful politician she is for sure, she has the guts, she has the talent, she has the intelligence.
Speaker 3:Glenda Dotto.
Speaker 2:Come on, hello don't play with it, don't play with her, don't play with her. You know and I love her attitude and you know the way her blood boils for people. You know and you know sometimes people tend to want to see things change very quick.
Speaker 3:But sometimes you have to watch out for that.
Speaker 2:They have a Dutch saying snail lopers and doodlopers. You know, sometimes take your time, believe me. When big things are going to happen, give it time. You have to understand that you don't have to wait for the next election and she has that and that will prevail in the future.
Speaker 3:So let me say this you feel like AVP take too long to bolster costs. Like, let's say this you feel like AVP take too long to bolter costs, like, let's say a vote, because what a lot of people find was that this move should have been done last election with somebody like Helene, who was very much capable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the idea was that Helene had to become there, had to come there.
Speaker 3:Last election.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. They moved her from 18 to 4, I think it was.
Speaker 1:I think 18 or 16 to 4. To 4, yeah.
Speaker 2:With the intention that Khalid supposedly going to become the leader, not just in number, but the leader. Unfortunately, things went the way they went, you know, and it did not happen, but that was the idea. Let me put it, and this is not for Khalid or Tami, or so you know, geduld is a schoonzak Que nacida. En English, patience is a very clean or it's a very, it's a clean business. Okay, you know, got it, um, um.
Speaker 2:Sometimes people tend, when you're young, you know, I couldn't wait. When I had my first bike, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't. You know, as get older, even you're going to buy something. Oh, it's going to come six months from now and you work towards it. You get to learn how to deal with that. Getting knowledge is very important. Getting the experience is very important.
Speaker 2:Taking your time. Don't push yourself too fast, because there are things there that you might not be ready to deal with, and then it would be yammer to lose those opportunities just because you were so eager to be there. Don't take your time, believe me, everybody, you know what Yvonne de Funto used to say Tempo tabo mo mio amigo use correcto used to say tempo da bombo mio amigo, josé Correcto. Give yourself the time to learn it, to eat it, to smell it and to repeat it. You know it, it's done. You've been there and done that.
Speaker 2:We have intelligence, we have education, we have energy, but it needs it. And nowadays we have a market with great ideas, always, but only 2% will make it. And nowadays I hope you're hoping that the market has an idea and a grade, always, because only 2% will make it. Yeah, you know, the other ones wouldn't make it so quick and sometimes you've got to take your time, learn more. When people ask me what's the best advice I could give a youngster, my best advice is listen to those that have been there, listen to them, take it with you. That doesn't mean to say what I'm telling you to do is what you have to do.
Speaker 2:But take it with you, because you're going to recognize patterns of what I've told you and it's going to come to your head one time.
Speaker 2:I can call this now, you know. So it's difficult for me to not take a place like that. Not necessarily I have aisa to take a more legal place, not necessarily he was planning to take a place. He was planning to take a place of truth, and he put it in young. When you're in your 20s, your 30s, when you step up to the, when you sit down Let me put it like this when you sit down, get comfortable. Okay, mr Metaphor.
Speaker 2:When you sit down with these duchies at the table that believe Aruba is second-grade citizens and that whatever you guys do down there, you all are corrupted, all of you down there. That's the way many of them think. But you will realize it when you go through it. And then you better be ready. You move from who you are to come. When you sit down with them to debate with them, to put them in a place, you got to know what you're talking about, not just by reading an academic book. You have to go through some exercises and you got to be ready to discuss them, Otherwise they're going to, how you say, leisure the last four, huh.
Speaker 1:They're going to Like this body.
Speaker 2:You'll be surprised when you and not only the business people and so on you know you have to be prepared for these things.
Speaker 3:I think the Dutch, the Dutchies are saying but the local people are saying to it like for we, as the Dutch people say, like everybody, just they are all corrupted but the locals too, like you're like fine the, but the locals too like not too ready, but it's corrupt Down there.
Speaker 1:Up there you're like fuck the middle people or maybe a little cost-paying, you know.
Speaker 2:But to be example, hey, sometimes you don't want to do it because you feel you want to show them you could do it a lot. But I bet you, if you call them, they got a good advice for you. For sure they have been there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, advice for you For sure, they have been there. Yeah, they have been there and done that. They've seen. Yeah, they've seen what happened in the past, like, if you go down this route, this is going to happen this person, this person but then it also gives them also.
Speaker 3:Then, if you're willing to be a mentor, guide me through it, but I, but, if I earn it in the meantime? Exactly, you're going to earn it. So that means you're saying it's up to whoever decides that they are the leader of the person. No, no, you're going to grow into it.
Speaker 2:You're going to grow into it. You're going to demand it. They're going to give it to you. Sometimes they give it to you before you demand it, and sometimes you demand it but need to over cup. It's just advice.
Speaker 3:No, I get it, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 2:I know people that started business Again, those that do it good, hey, patch it up and keep on the energy, but it's only top of the crop From the millions many of them will make it. So don't use the top of the crop as the…. No for sure.
Speaker 3:Because them won't make it. So don't use the top of the crop as the no for sure, because they won't make it.
Speaker 2:It's unfair. You guys are quick, you guys are doing good. It's unfair for a lot of other kids to go measure themselves to you because they don't have the intelligence you guys have.
Speaker 1:Or if they haven't gone through the shit. We've gone through, yeah, exactly 100%. We've gone through some shit 100% Exactly.
Speaker 2:Imagine you yourself went through so many things and they haven't gone through it. Yeah, they think it's easy.
Speaker 1:You yourself exactly want to tell them hey, I see people like shit, man, that's so easy. And then I did it. I was like bro, I got like five mental breakdowns the last month, my guy Setting my car through a year, exactly that's exactly what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what I mean. You went through it on a young age quicker again. Thank you Again because you separate yourself as the top of the crop. I'm not saying the other is bad, but many don't have that opportunity, don't have that vision and so on. And that's what I mean. Sometimes you know, and you have a genre that can go from one shot, boom, there you go, you understand, but it has many of the others and that's what it's been, that experience is important and so on, for them not to understand it. Because it's not just we in politics. Kids look at that. I know. Okay, I always tell my kids there's no shortcuts to life. I'm right. So when you, at the end of the day, on your bed, you know you're going, you know you have done your time, you know you're going to realize that it took that route to reach there.
Speaker 1:And not by shortcut. Kiana Kovac said the same thing. Remember it's a guest we had in the past. I said like there's no shortcuts in life, no, no. There's no shortcuts in life, no, no.
Speaker 2:But you had to get the yes, you got to. So that's so the whole thing from avi. It's a nice thing, though it's a nice discussion, so people you don't discuss about there's a lot of speculation on what happened.
Speaker 1:For sure I have the same question, but he came out.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm sorry, it's fine. It's fine if you look at us today, we're, we're together because people were thinking there was internal fights like yo.
Speaker 1:I guess Dowers hates this shit because experience the quantity.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. He said nothing with it, he just posted it like okay, here you go.
Speaker 1:That's how I was like when I saw it. I was like, oh shit, people in between.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's an argument, discussion, internet come out and everybody build their own story about it. No, it was not, and I for sure I was all the way in the back and I for sure I was all the way in the back.
Speaker 1:They pulled me back in the front like hey, the message you want, that yeah, exactly exactly I wanted to.
Speaker 2:Alright.
Speaker 1:Mike, we're going to be reaching the end, but I do have one more segment with Ata. It's three questions, multiple choice, and I got two final questions and then we're going to run off. It's like an hour and a half but I like a lot of this conversation. It's like their stories, like real shit that happened. I didn't know that solar park was in Santa. Claus, I hope you guys have talks to bring that back, because I think that's cool it is functioning.
Speaker 2:They just got it like hidden in the houses and not showing anybody really, if it's working, then who's getting the electricity? No, yeah it the electricity. No, yeah, it is helping Okay.
Speaker 3:But, mike, okay, so Vava in front of Kamini's. Have like this little plane.
Speaker 2:No, deer, no but okay, that little plane.
Speaker 3:People say that like it have like toxins on the deer and whatnot, it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a dump. In Lagos you had two dumps. You had one at the entrance, the one there was industrial and the one at the entrance was residential. But they went in and it took them out. They talk about radioactive?
Speaker 1:no, no, it took okay, okay, okay, okay, it growing a little bit low key well speaking of toxins, I have a follow-up question I I've heard people um that have had experts come to aruba and tested the waters in san nicolas and apparently they're not great because they're refinery. That's true. So like the water is like it's, basically you're swimming in toxic water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I'm saying, and that's why I'm saying that people Sorry.
Speaker 1:Rogers Beach gone.
Speaker 2:No, no, sorry, I'm going to grow a tail I feel
Speaker 1:it, we're okay, we're making jokes, but it's actually a real thing.
Speaker 2:No we're okay at Baby Beach, tonga shit water. We got this no we're okay at Baby Beach. We're even okay at Rogers Beach. Can you imagine this? This same water is going down to WEP, because WEP is downstream of here and we're drinking that.
Speaker 1:That's why you have to buy the sandy water.
Speaker 2:No, but the water of WEP is good. That's the media's input.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to say anything, but how do you know?
Speaker 2:I know, you know, people don't realize. When I talk about Sanya and Luka, it's not just about the land, it's also about the people. It's also unstable. There's a lot of chemicals that are in the ground. Barrens are in the ground. No, no.
Speaker 2:It's just leakage, yeah, leakage chemical to about through me, no, no, just leakage, leakage up to now we have leakage because we got like a million sip barrels of oils in the grounds of San. Nicolas, you know. So it's a problem before when you do it with chemicals you put another and you take it.
Speaker 3:I mean, God knows why everybody has cancer and all these type of diseases all of a sudden.
Speaker 2:So that's the reason why I say you know, san Nicolas, don't need no baseline stories and no, I don't think the cruise port. You don't need a shit.
Speaker 1:I would say let's go to the questions. Get your questions ready. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Get your phone. Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay, I'm going to do the first one.
Speaker 1:There's three. All right, so according to your knowledge, is Aruba Tourism Authority, ata, investing in protecting nature and the environment projects through partnership agreements? Should I ask that again? Yes, according to your knowledge, is Aruba Tourism Authority investing in protecting nature and the environment projects through partnership agreements.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if they are and if they are not enough.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean. Well, the answer is yes, they are, and they're doing it with Aruba Conservation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but not enough. You think you should do more. I mean, that's an honest answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, at least he didn't bullshit like no, yeah, yeah, at least he said like hey, I'm not sure you know you're honest Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Okay. Next question is ATA is currently shifting its focus on the types of guests it attracts. What is a key benefit of this shift for the local community? Is it a decreased job opportunities in tourism. B improve quality of life through sustainable practices. C high property taxes for residents, or. D community input is not considered in tourism planning I think it would be b.
Speaker 2:Can you repeat b?
Speaker 3:which is improves quality of life through sustainable practices.
Speaker 1:Okay all right, you got, you got one we got one more all right.
Speaker 1:So the last one is aruba tourism. Sorry over. Tourism is a worldwide topic that aruba is not immune of, which is probably all have right now. From the perspective of your political party, what is Aruba's strategy for mitigating overtourism and promoting regenerative tourism in 2025, according to Aruba Tourism Authority? Is it A increasing guest arrivals by 20%. Is it B attracting high-value guests who align with responsible tourism principles. Is it C focusing solely on luxury tourism, or D encouraging mass tourism to boost economic growth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you'll have to repeat B.
Speaker 1:B is attracting high-value guests who align with responsible tourism principles. Is that one? Yeah, I would think so. That is correct.
Speaker 3:Two out of three Good job.
Speaker 2:Good job? No, up until now, I used to be in.
Speaker 1:Minnesota tourism. Listen, even this one answer like higher property taxes for residents, Bro, if that's the case.
Speaker 2:I'm moving.
Speaker 1:I'm leaving Aruba so I got, like you know, pretty much, let's, let's offer on the cookie. Um, you've been in 20 years in politics. When do you feel like you would retire?
Speaker 2:well, this is my last dance, really what is it legit? I'm michael jordan.
Speaker 1:I got a little goosebumps and now my my title is gonna be the Last Dance with Mike DeMesa. That's the title of this episode, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I give my time and I'm, this time, really focused on the new generation together with us so we can guide them through and they continue with it, I'll always be there.
Speaker 2:I'll always be there giving support to my colleagues, even as we go through the years. But any question they have, I have enough energy. I'm still not a pensionator, you know. So I'm there. We put it at 65 years. So we'll have to go through the crunch for that or go in the private sector. But, um, I'm there. But it's time to like, in my case, to the next person to drag over. You know, work with them, but then after this, okay.
Speaker 1:So if, if let's say you get it, you know you guys get in the government, you become minister again. What which cartera?
Speaker 2:you know, I think it's about time. I can't believe it's it. Are you really?
Speaker 1:This is a big deal 20 fucking years man For real. Yeah, I mean, it's expected eventually, but wow. Have you said this at any other show? Sorry.
Speaker 2:Is this the first time you're mentioning it? That's the first time I'm hearing this. Yeah, I'm seeing it. Oh my God, Maybe I said it to my friends or so, no, but like publicly, like let's say no not really come out and say it. The other day, speed asked me. I told him, you know. I'm going to take on. You know, tuma Speed Patrick, we got something over you.
Speaker 1:Let's go. I spoke to Speed. We want to do a show together me, shark, patrick and Speed. Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Have a show together, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. I wasn't expecting that. I thought you were going to say like maybe like one more and then, like you know, no, not really Like.
Speaker 1:I want to go on vacation, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's. Yeah, it should be the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:So which cartera would you?
Speaker 2:like I think it's to be honest, if it's up to me, I've done a lot of carteras. I've been Minister of Finance, economic Affairs, energy, tourism, transport, medio Ambiente, which one's your favorite. I've worked eight years as Vice Prime Minister of Aruba full eight years. This time I think San Nicolas, for the first time, need to not demand, but need Minnesota infrastructure for us to fix things up there.
Speaker 1:Okay, you know roads, that's what you're going, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, give land, you know, get San Nicolas up to level, especially now having the hotel getting ready.
Speaker 3:What are your thoughts on?
Speaker 2:that the hotel. It's positive, but we need to have good beach policy, we need to have good mass movement policy. You know, we need to promote San Nicolas in its totality to make it commercially attractive. Not over-promote, though, yeah, no.
Speaker 3:We can't lose our essence.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, give workshops to San Nicolas people Other people is okay too, but San Nicolas people like okay, what is very important to do, commercial and how you do the commercial. Panano Biding commercial, masal no, we have so much you know how you do the commercial. No, we have so much you know how you call it top of the crop type talents. You know that we can sell that.
Speaker 1:That people would love.
Speaker 2:We got periodical apparel right there Exactly Got your shirts oh shit. I'm still in shock mode.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Loki wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I was a little shocked so to help those in San Nicolas to go a little more linear with them, I don't like just racism of discrimination. People in San Nicolas have it much tougher to get where people below the bridge get, and especially when you're lighter in skin and color.
Speaker 3:But people don't believe this now. Oh yeah, oh yeah, people will swear to God Arabs don't have racism. Oh yeah, I love a lot. I love a lot.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I would have never known about it since we started this show.
Speaker 3:I've never known about it since we started the show. Shark educates me all the fucking time.
Speaker 1:Like some people are, like I'm black and I'm gay, I have the worst.
Speaker 2:You're on the right side of the line. Yeah exactly that's why you have it in you, but it's a lot.
Speaker 1:And it's not your fault. I mean it's also because I'm not around it.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It's not your fault. You should be good.
Speaker 1:You don't have our problems.
Speaker 2:Thank, god, we have guys like you.
Speaker 1:I think it's crazy because, like Aruba, is such a multicultural island. I'm like how the fuck is it racist?
Speaker 3:We do Look at San Nicolas for so long with elections, Just simply.
Speaker 2:we are all human beings. I agree, the greatest inventions were done by black people in the world. Per Quacketti, do you think that all of those people in San Nicolas that live in poor houses and so black people, really do it because they want to, because the opportunities are not given to them or even taken away from them and they find themselves living with those cards that are dealt to them and they got to walk extra hard they want to excel, just like anybody else, just like any chinese, any european, any american it doesn't matter who, just like, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:So when you see that, not only in aruba, but you see it in any country, there is something wrong, because there's no human being that want to live.
Speaker 3:I want to be poor where the being shreve wants to live, and they don't want to.
Speaker 1:But I want to be poor, where the bean shrimp wants to live, and they don't want to, but at the end of the day, it's also everybody's own decision, not the only decision, but it's also. You're also in charge of your own life. If you want to change something, get the fuck out and fix it. I don't want to be here, I'm going to move somewhere else and I'm going to work.
Speaker 3:But I do judge you like, but then also, why would you have to leave your home and your family and everything that you grew up in to get a different? But then you go, do that and you come back and give back to your community, but then why does the community not be able to?
Speaker 2:be on the same level as the rest of the island. Why is San?
Speaker 3:Nicolas always a different part of the island.
Speaker 2:This happened with the opportunity towards us, towards systematically in case of disadvantage.
Speaker 1:Believe me. Well, guys, I'm not ignorant. It's just more like.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, I'm not trying to ask questions, because I'm sure people are like oh, I didn't know, of course, these questions are great and, like you said, it depends on yourself.
Speaker 2:But it's only a couple of people that will have that mentality, and that doesn't mean that the rest are bad, but they just don't have it. But white privilege you know that story in the US. We have it in Aruba, for sure, we have it in.
Speaker 3:Aruba, and I could tell you that. Let me ask you this, mike If you become the minister of infrastructure, right, how would you work on infrastructure? Because if you're the minister, you're not the minister of infrastructure for San Nicolas, you're going to be the minister of infrastructure for Aruba. So how do you benefit and what would you change for Aruba in general as minister from infrastructure Number one?
Speaker 2:we have to clean up this place. Aruba is a dump at this moment. Shit, we don't have a dump. Yeah, there's all over the place. So we are planning to build a top-notch solid and water waste facility, preferably in San Nicolas by Z-Wake, where the tanks are, san Nicolas by Z-Wag, where the tanks are. So if we don't have nobody to take over the tanks and be a terminal operator transshipment, we're going to dismantle that part too.
Speaker 2:You know, in Z-Wag with the white tank, you know that was the first dump Aruba ever had, the first big mass dump before the first big mass dumps that we had in the park. But now it's in the cabins in the dumps and all the tanks are coming, oh shit. But if we Right across, it was the first golf course. A lot of people don't know that the first golf course in the world was in Seawake. As a matter of fact, the first bank was also in Seawake. Seawake was, yeah, back in those days.
Speaker 2:But to come back, we will have a top-notch facility for water-efficient, water-saving facilities for a large part of Aruba and also solid waste handling. It will start in a year, so we will have a different level. On the other hand, we have a site that will be built in the future in Bobali Plaza, with another level. I'm against the idea that you have to put a toilet here and then a toilet on the right. On the right, yes, but I think you should put a toilet on the right and then a toilet on the left. You don't build your toilet in your kitchen. That's what we have in Aruba.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I've never seen it that way. Exactly, we have our toilet and our washbasin, have in aruba exactly.
Speaker 2:I've never seen it that way exactly. And we're cooking, we're in a restaurant, we're cooking in the kitchen, we're shitting in the kitchen.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, but we have to take it out, because we can't have it there anymore and a lot of people know. But technology, we just got to take it out of there and put it where Someplace else, but not there, but where there's different places and one of the places that we can have a great part of it but top-notch, top-of-the-line, where you won't smell nothing, you won't realize. I've been to places like that in the Netherlands. It's just top-of-the-line places. England has them too and we can build them in Aruba and we will be the flagship in the Caribbean showing how it can be done right.
Speaker 2:Remember, we get right now about 35 million florins from the tourists we take to take care of our wastewater. That money is enough to take care of our wastewater and our solid system with incinerators, not small jokey incinerators, I'm talking about the industry of incineration and so on. So, real thing, I have an engineering background. I'm a major in energy and process technology and these things are. You know I've done projects for millions and millions and these things, you know, when you have the right people, I'm not going to do it, but when you choose the right people to do it, you know we get things done good, like we say.
Speaker 2:It's true, you know you put people that don't know what they're talking about. Now everybody is out there. Character assassination that's the way we are in Aruba. But I guarantee you they could go look at everything for Mike De Mesa. Mike De Mesa is straight as a season agent. That's the way we are in Aruba. But I guarantee you they could go look at everything for Mike De Mesa and Mike De Mesa as straight as a table can be. That's me and I'll always be that. I will never change.
Speaker 3:Sure, I guess he's straight, but anyways I think we're reaching the end.
Speaker 1:This is literally our longest episode. It really is. So, before we ask you the final question, which is you know why people should vote for you? Do you think this election and next election could be a coalition? And if that's the case, well, let him answer first. Okay, yeah, if I think it could be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think so Okay.
Speaker 1:Now, if it ends up being a coalition, which other parties do you feel like aligns more with AVP in terms of like, like we can work with them?
Speaker 2:I think right now, yeah, futuro. Mas I show me the trees. Is that a?
Speaker 1:joke. I'm like, was that a joke just now?
Speaker 2:this fucking fucking trolling man miguel very good with the job.
Speaker 1:Watch me get a comment.
Speaker 2:What the fuck man no, because he's growing too. Maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, god knows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, but like which one of these parties do you feel like alliance more with, like the values? Maybe personally for you, yeah not your party I think, I think all three of them one of them will be like a good fit.
Speaker 2:One of those three will be a good fit. Okay, I really do, I really, I. You know we worked with them in the opposition, we had discussions. You know it's not like we're, you know, in love with each other yeah, yeah but.
Speaker 1:but at the end of the day, sometimes me and shark we fight all the time, but no one's good for no filter like let's, let's keep it fucking pushing yeah but we kind of you can feel the chemistry, the synergy and so on the way we look at things.
Speaker 2:Yes, I see that it's sad that Raiz kind of you know let them be like a man who misused and enhanced the map but what he lost for the G. So we want to make it easier for you.
Speaker 3:So if you want, you can have it.
Speaker 1:That's good, yes.
Speaker 2:But if you want, you can also have a coalition of the opposition, if you want, Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, Okay, answer. All right. Mr Magdemiso, we're going to give you a second over here. This is your camera. Our host, Mr Mike De Mesa. We're going to give you a second over here. This is your camera, Our host, Mr Henrique Caza Pulo Caza. 20 years in politics, the last dance with Mike De Mesa. Why should we vote for you?
Speaker 2:Talk to your people Based on experience. I'm a very humble guy.
Speaker 1:You don't have to talk to the line, do you?
Speaker 2:I'm a very humble guy. You're not going to hold the door to the line, are you? Yeah, no, I'm a very humble guy. I work with everyone. I cooperate with everyone. I'm very adamant and decisive in making the right decisions for Aruba. I believe very much in my community, which is San Nicolas, and I believe San Nicolas needs to get a fair chance. I really do. I entered the politics because of San Nicolas and I hope to be able to look back when I'm done with politics that San Nicolas really moved up, you know. But I'm here for Aruba. I believe in Aruba, I love Aruba. My wife, my kids, we all are from Aruba, you know. So Aruba, I believe in Aruba, I love Aruba, my wife, my kids, we all are from Aruba. So Aruba is my country. I live in Aruba and I will die in Aruba and I will be buried in Aruba. So I'm that guy. I'm that guy. I'm not going to give you empty promises.
Speaker 1:Unrealistic.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm a hard worker, my wife always tell me, and so forth. I was always fighting for my mom and dad. My mom always fought for us. She loved to study, she loved to do everything I could. She loved to do everything I could. And I always said to her I hope you'll do the same as I do To other people. I'm just that guy. You know you have an honest guy in me and I'll work for you. You know I'll give it all my best. You know, thank you me and and I'll work for you. You know I'll give it all my best, you know. Well, thank you, dance with me. Yeah, the last song.
Speaker 1:That should have been your slogan, like it's the last dance guys but it was a good conversation I wanted to keep it going myself. I was like I need to know more, because not only because it's your last dance, but it's also you've been 20 years in politics, so you have a lot of knowledge and things we can pick your brain on. But, guys, if you enjoyed the episode, subscribe to our YouTube channel, like the video, comment whatever you want, because fact check, go for it, okay drop in the comments, because we're in there, we're commenting, we're looking at everything in the meantime, guys, we'll see you on the next episode.
Speaker 1:Topa awesome guys.