No Filter in Paradise
Two friends, one's straight one's Gay, with different backgrounds, interest, upbringing & outlook in life come together to have a Fun & honest conversation and discuss their opinions on different topics... with no filter.
No Filter in Paradise
Ronella Croes: From Aruba's Roots to Tourism Leadership and Personal Growth | EP 182
Ronella, the CEO of the Aruba Tourism Authority, discusses her journey through leadership, the challenges of sustaining tourism, and the importance of community in the industry. She highlights how resilient strategies and local engagement can redefine tourism in Aruba for both tourists and residents.
• Ronella shares her background and journey from Aruba to the Netherlands
• Discussion on the challenges of leading in a male-dominated industry
• Insights into the importance of community in tourism sustainability
• The role of tourism as a vehicle for improved quality of life
• Emphasis on aligning tourism with local needs for a balanced approach
• Conversation around influencer marketing and the authenticity of local voices
• Goals for 2025 and the future of tourism in Aruba
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let's be honest a lot of people are waiting for you to fill a lot of people, especially for those, that type of position and you're a woman, and that's according to my parents. I don't remember this, but according to my parents, my first words was asesorio anyway, mama, papa asesorio my first thought was like having that happening during covid plus you're dealing with all the I.
Speaker 3:I'm like. I cannot even imagine the heaviness on your head. You're like would you ever?
Speaker 2:do politics Because maybe you don't have to.
Speaker 3:I think you told me this like you start becoming a different person when you start maturing or whatever, and those people, those friends, are still stuck in that way. But you've outgrown it, so it's kind of like hard. It's hard to detach something you've been around for so long it's a really bad habit it's. Oh my god, I knew he was gay, like okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Hey yo, what's up?
Speaker 3:I like I miss this Guys welcome back to the ABC Islands favorite podcast, no Filter in Paradise, a show about anything and everything between two friends One is straight and the other is melanated and a homosexual babies.
Speaker 2:Are you ever going to change that?
Speaker 3:No, no, no, I'll give it two months, two months, okay. Are you ever going to change that? No, no, no, I'll give it two months, two months, okay. Guys, today's guest um, it was special guest here today. We I think we've tried to get you in the past, but maybe you started rescheduling or maybe not the right timing, because you're a very busy woman. Ladies, gentlemen, we got miss ronella in the building hi, hi, hi, hi hi. Welcome. Happy to be here, I'm happy, we're happy you're here.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry that something happened with the schedule.
Speaker 2:Don't be sorry. Don't be sorry, listen God's time.
Speaker 1:It wasn't meant to be Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:I think I mentioned it to someone yesterday. It's like we were trying to do something with someone, with a guest, and I kept like I'm in the poor, in the poor, in the poor, and I'm like why, why are we not getting this guest? And then I realized the new project we're working on it was meant for that, so like if we interviewed this person before, it wouldn't have gone, it wouldn't make sense and I guess you will not be sharing anything about the new project oh no, not yet.
Speaker 1:Maybe off camera Cold language Looking forward to that and happy that you're working on other projects and new projects Because that's part of life, eh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, keep evolving. Amen. We're doing our best, like trying to figure out like we just came from Curacao and now we're planning this next project.
Speaker 1:And then we're also planning Holland, so it's like it's, it's Nice, it's's what do you say?
Speaker 3:it's a lot of planning and preparation and logistics, because I'm kind of a perfectionist, so if like, like, so that's not me but that's good.
Speaker 1:That's part of success as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, so, um, for those who don't know who you are which would be kind of weird, but who's Ronella? Give a little bit of a brief explanation of who this person is.
Speaker 1:Born and raised in Aruba, studied here at, amongst other, colegio Urbano. Grew up in North, in Tancolene.
Speaker 2:There's.
Speaker 1:Catiri to be exact. I was neighbors, for the majority of my childhood, of Atan Junior Taifu, so the Lee residence.
Speaker 1:So we live right across. Yes, yes, yes. So went to Colegio Urbano, then went to Holland to pursue my further studies. So finished my bachelor's degree in marketing, also in tourism, and then MBA. Then I decided consciously to come back to Aruba and at that point already I said okay, I want to do something either for Aruba or for the Caribbean. So I was open for other islands as well and other opportunities, islands as well and other opportunities. And I started working in telecommunications, was the first one to be hired by um dalo gomez and andean bicker when they uh opened the telecom market on their new millennium telecom services.
Speaker 1:Literally was the first one there at the building, and then immediately thereafter digicel took over, so worked for digicel um a couple of years and I got to travel, uh a lot in the caribbean already, yeah, worked on projects. I mean, at that point they were launching the business in in the caribbean, expanding. So, um, I noticed that I like also the fact that you're you're you're at the front of a project, so I call it business restructuring or business setup, but in this case it was the same.
Speaker 1:So I got to experience. You know, go and replicate the model that we did in Aruba. Go to Barbados for six months, replicate it there. Yeah, go here, go there.
Speaker 3:So, that was a little twist from them. You always have to localize the approach, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm very grateful for that. And then I moved to bonair and there my actually my current kind of experience that's when it started um. I just saw an ad and I was gonna ask you what.
Speaker 3:What made you go to bernard in the first place?
Speaker 1:it was more about the, the opportunity, so the, the professional opportunity, and um. To be honest, I did not know bernard very well, so um I got a challenge then I got invited for an interview and I went there and, um, yeah, I got selected. So, um, that was in december, I think. I had one, two weeks max to just okay, pack and move damn and I love bonair.
Speaker 3:From where again? From aruba, okay I love bonair.
Speaker 1:I love bonair um, and I stayed there and I lived there for six years six years.
Speaker 3:What's your favorite thing about bonair?
Speaker 1:you know I was, I'm, I'm okay. I learned to to define it like this um, it's not that the jobs are very busy and demanding. I think I am a person who loves challenges yeah, so like you make yourself busy, I make myself busy, so my life was pretty busy yeah, but in a on an island that is very tranquil yeah and um beautiful nature, beautiful people. I made, yeah, great friendships there um got married there so um yeah, you know a saying that goes.
Speaker 1:They say in papiamento by bonero, by casumis never heard of it.
Speaker 3:I know I've heard this before, okay, so I Never heard of it.
Speaker 1:So I don't know why, but that applied for me basically. So I got to Bonaire, got married and then, in 2011, I came back to Aruba, basically so to fill the position of CEO of the Aruba Tourism Authority. Nice, and it's been quite a journey and talk about restructuring, but also structuring business.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was as a new CEO of the new Aruba Tourism Authority, which was an independent entity, not a government department.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people get confused a lot. Huh, yes, even with the Hata as well, people get us confused with Hata atia ata.
Speaker 1:But the critical thing is that we are independent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So actually I've never worked for the government.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've never worked in a government department, Because in Bonaire the tourism corporation Bonaire was already an independent entity as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Working with a board, so the whole model I yeah, I lived it and I I worked in that setting and, um, I got to do, get to do it yeah, for aruba, that was dope.
Speaker 3:So since 2011 you've been the ceo of ata yeah, that's quite a long time.
Speaker 1:I never. I never expected, actually I never expected um to be in in such positions for such a long time no. Because I like change.
Speaker 3:Of course, because with changes comes challenges, and that's what keeps it fun, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and opportunities of course. But the thing is that these types of positions there are not many who can fulfill these positions, because they're limited.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not because of the talent out there, because they're limited. Yeah, not because of the talent out there because they're limited, but, um, the honor to be the director of tourism, in this case the ceo of the aruba tourism authority, is a privilege, and those types of jobs are very dynamic so it's almost never the same thing never, never, never and that is that's. That's a big boost that's.
Speaker 3:That's what I love. It doesn't feel like it doesn't feel super repetitive the entire time absolutely like there's one big challenge. It, okay, took me seven months. I finish it. What's the next fire that I have to put out?
Speaker 1:you know, and I have to say when, when I reach those moments, um, I don't I not only focus on the ata, of course I, I'm on. I serve as a board member in several boards, committee member in several committees, so those are things that help you also expand and broaden your knowledge and go outside of the industry of tourism and contribute in other ways to the community as well, for sure.
Speaker 3:Very side topic. I just realized this. I picked a good background color because I just saw her nails pink and the background is pink. So I was like very, very sight. No, like random, very random I'm sorry it's a really bad habit it's.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I knew he was gay like okay yeah, it wasn't like I knew what the backdrop was going to be and I and I picked my nail color.
Speaker 3:I I'm sorry, I thought Shark would have made that comment right now. Anyways, you had a question, go for it.
Speaker 2:So I wanted to put a pin in the conversation of Ata Because I feel like it's a conversation I definitely am excited to have with you. But I want to take things back to before. So you mentioned you grew up around the lees and all this good stuff, so I want to know. Thank you for the question seven years old what was life like for you? What was life like with your parents, with school? What type of girl were you at that age?
Speaker 1:so please bring us up to speed thank you for the question because I just felt like I wanted to talk about that as well. Of course, otherwise it's the same of what everybody probably. Yes, I mean, we don't do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we always like to dive deep or at least go into the past of every guest, because everybody sees the finished product. Never see the struggle to get to the finished product.
Speaker 1:So according to my parents I don't remember this, but according to my parents my first word was assessorio.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was gonna say like a bad word, I think I never, shared this assessorio you're like mama, papa, assessorio, like oh no, it's gonna be expensive.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think, after you know mommy, papi etc. But um, my mom told me that I'm like, okay, but I also bumped into a lady a couple of weeks ago who took care of us as well, and so, yeah, the privilege of yeah, my dad, you know, an entrepreneur, but also with a steady job. My mom was a teacher for 35 years.
Speaker 3:So you know a teacher, my mom was a teacher for 35 years.
Speaker 1:So you know a teacher. But so we always had people taking care of us as well at the house, etc. But she reminded me of the fact she's Rinella, you have not changed. You're like, you know, botasina, coqueta, and I'm like that. You know I'm girly, girly also, but I'm very, I'm very On point and stuff.
Speaker 3:I'm very male girly also, but I'm very, I'm very. On point and stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm very male as well, especially in my job.
Speaker 2:So the roles kind of like Very dominant you have to be.
Speaker 1:Yes yes, so I'm a combination of that. But oh no, when you were, you know, when you were a kid, my parents, they, you know, they built kind of a mini park in front of the house. So we used to go there every afternoon. But the drill is okay, you go, you get a shower, or take a shower, you get dressed and then you go and play outside. I had a mini house, I had a barbie, et cetera, sleepovers.
Speaker 1:A kitchen the cook a lot of, but seven years old. But then throughout my teenage years, I mean, a critical part of my life has been, uh, the fact that I I was involved in many extracurricular activities as well like what my name so school, and then my mom God bless her, very grateful and my dad now and then stepped in as well, but taking me to piano classes, to choir, to tennis, swimming, turning athletic.
Speaker 3:Pretty much. That's all the sports Aruba has to offer. No, it was the keeper.
Speaker 1:Girl scouts Girl scouts, girl scouts, really yeah, I was in a drum band as well, um basketball. I played basketball, I played basketball and then as well so I was very diverse no, I didn't like the fact that I always ended up with bruises. Basket is very rough, but I play for Estrella.
Speaker 2:Stop.
Speaker 3:We were either the champions or the sub-champions Stop, someone's going to come and like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, a lot of activities, a lot of extracurricular activities, and I'm very grateful for that. Do you feel like?
Speaker 2:that helped mold you to who you are today and do you feel? Like that's something that parents should try to thrive for to have your kids do as many different things as possible.
Speaker 1:Yes, definitely, I was very shy. I was very shy, I can see that yeah, okay I can see that I was very shy, but um, it helps you with discipline definitely we're doing sports. Oh yeah, teamwork it helps you also with teamwork. I think I'm rather competitive, though, but not that I cannot take.
Speaker 3:You need that, though, but I think it's a good thing it's a great thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a good thing, it's a great thing.
Speaker 1:I think it's a good thing, but you have to accept the losses.
Speaker 3:But you love the wins and you just want to aim for as many wins as possible. And also you get to reflect on the losses, like why did I lose or what happened? What can I make better?
Speaker 1:so you learn to deal with losses but also, you know, celebrate the wins and the good feeling that comes with wins with winning so that and and just um, you know, communication, and um I've always done, you know, maintaining a regimen of being always active, and that has that is throughout my life. There was never a moment where I did not have any element of exercise in my good as part of my lifestyle and I think that's also very important extremely vital yes, not only for your physical health, but mental yeah, yeah, those who see me at the gym, hello I see you at the gym, treadmill always pop, pop up I see you at the gym, treadmill always pop, pop up okay, what do you mean?
Speaker 3:like it's not a big show, I walk in, she's running, I'm like I finished my workout, she's still around.
Speaker 1:Like damn, like yeah, yeah, I always say that you know, okay, I do it for my.
Speaker 3:So the running part is yes I do it hard and yeah, like, yeah, you're going, yeah crazy.
Speaker 1:So, um, but I say it's, that's more for the mental, um of course, physical as well. But mentally it's um. It really helped me during the pandemic as well. You, you know it's just a secret of being able to deliver and to go. It is, it is, and I have a couple of other things. Like you know, I always say start your week right. Like you know, your monday is critical because, that sets the tone for the rest of the day.
Speaker 3:He does all the time he goes to the beach.
Speaker 2:So we're very much, yeah, yeah 100 mondays to me is the best day of the week because I feel like how you, how your monday starts or how it goes, that determines how your week is gonna be sets the tone, so make it a great monday, and you have to know your productive.
Speaker 1:You know moments, so what times of day, but also what times of the week. You know you're gonna be, you know by by friday.
Speaker 2:You're like okay, exhausted so you know how do you start your mondays?
Speaker 3:how do you start your? How do you, how do you plan out, like your mondays? I start my, I prepare for the week on. Do you start your how do you? How do you plan out, like your?
Speaker 1:Mondays or your week. No, I start my, I prepare for the week on the Sunday. Sunday right so the Sunday is a day for me where I do, for sure, two hours of exercise. So I do my one hour cardio like running hard, but one hour I go for a thousand calories burned. That and then I do another hour of just machines weights, et cetera, and a lot of podcasts. Yeah, so then I do my errands, usually on Sundays.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:A lot of podcasts and I eat very light On Sundays. It's kind of a I do fast a lot which works for me.
Speaker 2:Same Everybody's over there. I try but on.
Speaker 1:Sunday I do that, so you start your Monday I like the feeling of light and just ready.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look at this. Not everything is perfect.
Speaker 2:No, of course not. Not everything is perfect.
Speaker 1:You know I don't get a lot of hours of sleep or enough hours of sleep. So you know, the days are long.
Speaker 2:The days are long For sure, but you know, the days are long. The days are long for sure, but, um, but then that's something that might be my mind, you know, just going but do you feel like you're just on my mind, just on? But you have to turn that off. It's not easy. I need to, I need to learn, I need to get better.
Speaker 3:I need to get better at doing that. It's really really. You find yourself laying in bed thinking, oh my god, like they find yourself like thinking a lot. I it's kind of like you're not working but you're still your mind's like what you're saying like that's what I struggle with right now, because your mind is not relaxing, then no, no, and my, my dad used to be like that as well, so you know not too many hours and I wake up at five so I might be at the office.
Speaker 1:they kind of know I might be the last one kind of still on and then the first one on because we have an office in Europe.
Speaker 2:So my my emails to Europe starts, you know, early 5.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um yeah, so I need to get better at that.
Speaker 2:I am holding you accountable right here, right now, today. Make sure you write it down.
Speaker 3:Write it down right now, today, make sure you leave work on time.
Speaker 2:The same way you respect your work, you have to respect your time, you have to respect Ronela's time.
Speaker 1:So if that means, I've gotten better at it. Good, you can get even better.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we're working on that.
Speaker 1:I admitted it. I love that. That's the first step.
Speaker 3:That's the first step Do you have a good work-life balance. That's the first step. That's the first step. Do you have a good work-life balance? Do you feel like you have a good work-life balance? No, but I know you just talked about it.
Speaker 1:No, I understand, I just said that I can get better at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I mean is like, do you have? Like I won't say you don't have a social life but what I'm trying to it of myself, you know, you know, in the thirties especially, I'm like, you know, everybody's like. Okay, my hobby is this and that.
Speaker 3:I'm like I don't have any like you know, you might be in a circle you know you might be at a work assignment and you know breaking the ice. It's my turn but I'm very comfortable in saying that actually my job is my hobby. Yeah, and that's not bad, because not many people can say that. I'm very comfortable, but that's just me punto yeah and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that? Thank you.
Speaker 3:Of course I have other hobbies, and that's the exercise, the podcast, but you know I love my job good same, so same yeah it doesn't feel like yeah, of course the work there are problems, of course, but those are challenges and that's part of the the work but and I understand what you mean with it doesn't feel like work, like time just goes by fast, like oh shit, the single caba, damn, damn man I didn't eat anything Like, so I do understand that part. Like you get to enjoy it, doesn't feel like you wake up in the morning like no, and isn't that the essence of life?
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:You know, my definition of a happy life is the sum of happy moments. So of course we're all going to uh confront days our energy shifts. Some days might be more high energy, others low, for whatever reason, but it is the sum of happy moments, and you will spend a lot of your life, uh, focusing or engaged in what you do as a profession. For sure, that's just that's the facts, that's just that's, just that's, just that's a fact, that's just, that's just fact.
Speaker 1:So you better make sure. So what we're seeing here is not is great If you can find that. The ability to say I just love my job, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you're winning in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but it can't be your full life either, though.
Speaker 1:No, but it can't be your full life either, though. No, no, no, and I've gotten better at that, but I there is room for improvement 100.
Speaker 3:Yes, now okay.
Speaker 2:So I want to know now okay, so we got young ronela. I want to know what were your challenges and plus points of going to holland, like that move, especially being for the isla chiquito to go there, it's a culture shock. Everything is very different. So how did you adjust and were there any like dark moments that you were like I didn't see this coming?
Speaker 1:First of all, I went to Holland. I was 17 years. I was always very independent though, and just a good, a good kid it's great, you know yeah, I mean my teenage years. I certainly had fun here. Perhaps you guys don't remember this, but there was a party boat called Tattoo of course okay, that was. My dad owned the party boat Tattoo.
Speaker 3:Nice, stop bring it back. It was so nice.
Speaker 2:Bring it back, of course, okay that was my dad owned the party boat tattoo Nice, stop, bring it back. It was so nice. Bring it back. Groove had a lot of parties up on there. I used to buy popcorn before, so we did shows on popcorn and tattoo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, so part of my upbringing and my teenage years prior to moving to Holland, I just want to say that I had the flexibility, as long as everything goes well at school, to just also go out party and just be a normal teenage kid.
Speaker 3:She had the access to the boat. She was like hey, party on me, let's go. Everybody Get in the shuttle, you know the slide and then go to you know, come with the crew, vip and so that was
Speaker 1:that was nice, but I think it's important because you're not. You're not going to holland. You know the night life the night scene being it is different, um, but it's good to be prepared on that front as well, and um, I think, I think that, uh, I soon learned that I did not like living in rotterdam, which was so big, so I lived one year in rotterdam, used to go to all of the student and ave on the thursday night yeah I got my credits, just net, net.
Speaker 3:I'm like was that, and then I moved to arnhem, which is more. Quiet. Yeah, my sister lives there. It's super nice.
Speaker 1:And I lived there for the remainder of my time in Holland, even Even traveling up and down to Enschede, which is one hour and a half by train.
Speaker 3:When I went to the Hogeschool Enschede, so every day Up and down ends today. So every day you were living in arnhem and taking a train hour and a half to go to school.
Speaker 1:yeah, hour and a half back, yeah wow, and I think the moment that I got like, oh, I'm not sure I can make it, was when I started with my master's degree, with all of the books and, like you, know, you have to read all of this, like in one week.
Speaker 2:I'm like and what was your days looking like in that time frame?
Speaker 1:oh, I focused a lot on my studies. I focused a lot on my studies, so I used to, um, go to name a, for instance, from ironham on sundays because the library was open on that day. So just go spend the day, the entire days, at the libraries that were open. So, um, it was a year that I focused a lot on my studies.
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 1:And what is so? What stuck with me also was that during my master's degree, my master's study, there was an exercise at the beginning of the course which motivated me a lot, and we had to. You know, we were presented with a scenario I mean, all of these international students, dutch students, myself, and we had to make decisions. So they split you in groups, so let's say, a group of 10, you had to make a decision based on a scenario like who, what will be your strategy if you are to rescue XYZ people? And these are the people on the boat, et cetera, et cetera. And I immediately took over, and then the remark of the teachers were okay, so you, you assume the position of leader leader and that's.
Speaker 1:That was um, and I, I kind of it kind of remained like that. So everybody used to come to me for advice and for this and that, and that's when I realized, oh okay, leadership skills, leadership skills, like okay.
Speaker 2:You got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah and yeah, that's but dark moments.
Speaker 3:Never a dip like oh, I need to go make my guys back.
Speaker 1:See, but not many.
Speaker 3:It wasn't.
Speaker 2:No, maybe because you were more prepared.
Speaker 1:It was very I did not like. I didn't, I didn't feel like hain we yeah, yeah homesick and uh, no, I was.
Speaker 3:I was just more open, curious, like yeah, new life, and I mean it's also a whole different area, you know, yeah, correct, correct, though I would be like damn, let's go like concerts, oh my god travel and yeah, I think I don't know, I I the moments, the low moments were not many yeah, and if they were, they weren't as low as most people might
Speaker 3:go through, you know, because you probably went there with a goal, to do what you're gonna do, and in a few hours you're in paris or you're in germany or you're in somewhere else. So that's something like that. I've never been to a studio before, so I go to a place like a plane and then whenever I go visit my sister, I go for like three weeks. I try to like dabble in different areas.
Speaker 1:And I worked. I mean, you know, there were moments winter I worked like a parking lot attendant. You know studying working outside, sp spice girls playing inside. I work like 5 pm shifts at the hospital, you know, uh, just at a machine.
Speaker 3:So these are jobs that don't require you to think a lot yeah but just to, to earn you know a little bit of cash, a little bit of cash, etc.
Speaker 1:So all of that was part of my.
Speaker 3:I gotta give you, I gotta give you props for discipline, like, just like, pass me to the boat. Okay, back back studio. I say exam, back to the boat studio. That's what I was saying.
Speaker 2:I feel like your parents did end up playing a role in having you in all these sports, having you do all these extracurricular activities, it kind of also prepared you for, okay, what's next?
Speaker 1:Like you're always on okay, so what's next?
Speaker 2:All right, well, what are we doing next? Okay, who do I got? So you're not majority kids at their 17 still depend on their parents heavily.
Speaker 1:But I don't think that was like a reality for you, so branching off was like okay, if I need y'all, I'll let you know. I was pretty independent yeah I was pretty independent, but I always describe myself also as a as an old soul, as an old soul. So you know yeah, I know right from we live the best lives.
Speaker 2:I kind of I do my best.
Speaker 1:I think I know right from wrong and um you know but of course, you know, there are moments of having fun. There are moments of, uh yeah, house parties and and just getting to experience holland and yeah, all of that you did it. There was time for it yeah, and it is important because everything is just shaping your, your personality, just to who you are, do you?
Speaker 3:feel like you've missed I don't. I mean, it seems like you've done a lot of stuff, but do you feel like you still? Because we spoke to someone you know, miles, and he was talking about his history, like it's upbringing and everything it's always been. Go, go, go yeah and, and I asked him that same question like do you feel like you've been so disciplined and focused on what you're doing that you've missed out on many things?
Speaker 1:in your younger years, like in your 20s, you made your teen years you know my um, so so what I know of myself, though, as well, is that, um, yeah, everything I did came with sacrifices as well. So, um, I had a great group of friends in in the netherlands, uh, before that, at colegio, um, but not that. You know, seasons change and some friendships are still there but some are less, so the bond is less intensive. And then you meet other people. I love that, though. You meet other people and you build.
Speaker 1:You know everybody has a purpose for being in your life at a certain point in your life. But there are people who I don't have many great, great, great friends, so perhaps Hanjuval or a little bit more, but these are people you know, you can call anytime.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they'll pick up the phone, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but that is something.
Speaker 1:It's not bad, but I'm the type of person okay. Aruba chapter close bible and then I built new friendships correct, but it's not like I'm.
Speaker 2:I've abandoned, but the communication is less.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but but it's kind of conscious also because you know I have to invest in in my relationships in bonair, so I spend the time and the energy there, and you know, sometimes it's hard because it's not something I'm going through. It's also something like you, kind of like start you I think you told me this like you start becoming a different person, you start maturing or whatever, and those people, those friends, are still stuck in that way, but you've outgrown it.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like hard it's hard to detach something you've been around for so long and then you go into somewhere else that you're not sure. It's like choppy water, it's like I don't know. Am I gonna be good friends with these people? Imagine it's not, then I go back and I'll leave my son me love. Bye, bye. I'm like I'm in between. Damn, I'm no friends anymore. You know the money to be so so is it?
Speaker 2:you can't, you can't be in the in between it's. Hey, this is where I'm at right now mentally. These people are where I want to be Correcto. If this is time for me to enter it, then this door and I'm going to enter fully invested into this door.
Speaker 3:I'm like what's up?
Speaker 2:Be in the moment. You have to be in the present moment, feel, learn, be open to everything that, the opportunities that these people can give to you. Take that so you can give that to the next person that needs these opportunities or this friendship, or whatever else that you can bring to the table.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's how I see it, and when I started uh um so my professional career, I always gravitated also to uh older people and also that that's and that's in aruba. So the you know we we worked at marisol building, so you have chaos, right. I mean, you know I work with irish people, so you can imagine.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we're there at the office until okay let's go to the bar, yeah I mean that's normal, so, but a lot of times it was the CEO, the CFO and the Irish club of people. So I grew, yeah, I was very close to them, but then when I went to Bonaire, it's the same thing. So my best friends are people who are it was the director of the bank there, it was the owners of different companies and but really good friendships, really really good, because they understand your struggles more than other people would that are not in the industry that you're in.
Speaker 1:It's relatable, it's also, you know you, you look up to them and you can learn from them exactly and you create uh relationships based on trust and mutual support. And still, until the day of today, a lot of good friends are older than me.
Speaker 3:Do you go to Bader often?
Speaker 1:I have friends to Bader.
Speaker 3:Do you travel to Bader often?
Speaker 1:No, no, I haven't done that in a while. No, no.
Speaker 3:Gotta go. No, no, I haven't done that in a while. No, no, gotta go. Well, I got a divorce also during the pandemic.
Speaker 1:Oh, um, which is also something yeah not not a good message maybe a bad message, but just my personal experience is that, uh, um, so my ex-husband used to live in bononaire. Yeah, we got married in 2017. I moved to Aruba and great relationship, nothing bad. But I decided to open myself up for other opportunities and just continue to evolve Beyond you know or being in a marriage of course, and until the day of today. We are best friend.
Speaker 3:We are good friends okay, so it wasn't like on bad terms, like it was amicable amicable, uh, good friends and yeah, and my first thought was like having that happening during covid plus. See you at the plus you're dealing with all the, I'm like yeah, I know, I can't, I cannot even imagine yeah, that was a bit like the heaviness on the on your head, like mentalmente so how did?
Speaker 2:how did well like, let's put a pin in bonair for a moment yeah how did the divorce affect you mentally, like, where were you in that space?
Speaker 1:well, it was something that I you initiated yeah yeah, yep, so, um, and since then I have a plan for myself that it's called uh, literally, literally. So I write down these things.
Speaker 3:Um, shark writes everything down evolution action plan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, okay, so break this down.
Speaker 1:What is this about?
Speaker 3:come on, I'm here to learn. My notebook is right there.
Speaker 1:I'm like it's always an arm's reach from you I um, so it's yeah, digitally anyway, but um, so, not in the book or something, but um, on a on an annual basis. I write down my, my goals, my resolutions and um so, and I break it down on personal. So it it's health, it's finance, it's family, it's love and something else.
Speaker 2:Professional or.
Speaker 1:Professional, of course, but yeah, and I have then sub goals that I want to reach. Yeah, and I have then sub goals that I want to reach and I keep all of the years so that I can always go back and you know. Look at the progress, but during COVID, I did something that I usually do not do I haven't done it before and I stopped doing it actually which was journaling. I journaled like more than 200 pages during COVID and I think that helped me also because it was crazy.
Speaker 1:It was just dealing with the pandemic, managing the ATA and the pandemic being on the crisis team the national crisis team having to make decisions, managing the ATA, but also the prime minister asked me to be part of the steering committee to steer and guide the whole new master plan for aruba, so there were days there that I did not sleep at all, um, and that was covet, um, and then just dealing with you know everything and this personal life as well, with not being over and you think it's over and done with, and no, it felt like the longest few years ever. Yes, so, but mentally it's yeah, it it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it was my decision and you wanted it, so you're ready for it it's yeah, and learning a lot, yeah, but certainly, um, I'm very grateful I'm very grateful because um I grew as a person as well Beyond.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean that I could not have done that while being married, but yeah, it's. It's opening yourself up for other opportunities, Other people.
Speaker 3:Just by herself, like you can say yes to a lot more things. You know like, obviously, when you're selfish. I'm married. Like I like, hey, I'm going to new york. I'm like, well, you didn't tell me this. Like so it's kind of like there's a communication thing, like hey, what do you think about this? But if you don't have that, like I'm, I'm going to ireland.
Speaker 1:Both my ex-husband and I were very independent okay we're very independent, because otherwise it wouldn't have worked okay two very independent people, so he had his own big projects and big responsibilities, so yeah, would you guys ever plan like back then, like you just plan stuff like okay, on friday we're gonna have dinner, or something like that? Because we lived separately um since 2011 for most of the years. Then, of course, the weekends that we see each other are quality.
Speaker 3:It's a lot about quality time, a lot, yeah it's good to know because, like there are people like who have whose wife is super busy, the husband is super busy and they don't know how to make it work. You know, just plan, like you just said, like a weekend, put the phone away and just go, go, the phones stay, but it's like. I gotta stop the run it's on airplane mode, but when I take it up I'm like but my phone is constantly on silence, though.
Speaker 1:I don't know I don't like to, but it's I check it. You need it though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just muted majority of my group chats. And what's that?
Speaker 1:that's the first thing.
Speaker 3:I told her when I come back I'm gonna start, because I have a bunch of group chats of like different projects that I work. I'm like you mute for the whole year, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:If I need, if I need to know something, I'll just go in there and like okay, let me update me otherwise my head gets consumed it's such a challenge the information overloads well, it's uh I cannot handle all of the social media platforms properly. Yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge.
Speaker 3:Teamwork. No, I know, that's where I'm trying to learn how to delegate things now. Like I have just this one kid. He's editing probably this podcast right now, but he's now editing all this podcast for me, so this takes a lot of time out of my day to edit back then. So now he does it for me. That opens up like an extra eight hours of my week that I can allocate somewhere else. You know, and I'm just I'm still learning how to delegate things.
Speaker 1:But that's, that's a professional kind of, you know, social media engagement. But I mean on a personal front you know, you want to be properly, you know handling your social media.
Speaker 3:Uh, um handles, so correct though yeah, all right, okay, so I want to touch base with bonair, yeah okay.
Speaker 2:So is that how you say it? Yeah, that's, that's our thing, bonair. Okay. So I want to know what was this like you just touched down? You saw this job application, you applied behind the bow.
Speaker 1:Now we're in Bonaire and it's about because people don't know you so so you always start. So in my um Bonaire experience and my Aruba experience in Bonaire, I started at the age of 27 and um Ruben, um you know, yeah, no family in bonair, um don't know anyone in bonair were they very welcoming the fortunately um. There's a very good relationship okay, yeah, okay okay, but anyway, but nevertheless.
Speaker 1:nevertheless, it was about just speed, speed booking results a lot of long hours. So that's, you know, still the case, because it takes work, you have to put in the work and building relationships and trust, but also making sure that there is some sense of novelty, because you are the new person. What is going to change?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's very important to come with fresh ideas as well to the table. And so it's about the hard work, so meeting, so the follow-throughs, saying what you are doing, what you say you're going to do definitely get it done get it done, booking the results, but also what's going to change. So what will you leave behind as part of your legacy?
Speaker 3:What's the added value of bringing in an elevator as part?
Speaker 1:of your time in Bonaire, but it was the same thing in Aruba. So in Aruba I was 33 years old when I started as the CEO of the Aruba Tourism Authority. I mean, of course, aruba is multiple times bigger than Bonaire in terms of the industry of tourism and the billions of guilders also dollars involved in the business. There was a very, very high expectation. It was after 25 years of governments discussing that we have to make the ata independent and you know sustainable management of tourism requires that to for the ata to get outside of the government. So a lot of expectations. So it was about setting up the business.
Speaker 3:Um everybody had to reapply for a job, so when you came in they went independent. That's when you came, when I started.
Speaker 1:I started as the new ceo of the independent entity oh, so you're at the beginning of the beginning. Like you have to build it from the ground she started I started in january but in december I was a lot in aruba already because I had to interview everybody yeah. So everybody. So it started with zero manpower, Zero.
Speaker 1:Employee one, ranela, everybody who used to work for the AT had to reapply for a job. Oh, and you know, hopefully they get selected, but so that took a lot of time. So you have new team members, you have some of the previous team members. You have, uh, previous team members, but then with uh in a new position, uh, so completely different. Uh, you had people who used to work at the at but perhaps were not really fully on board with you know, this independent thing going on. And I was yeah, I was an ump to, I was an ex-government employee. So for them, in their case, do I jump on their ship?
Speaker 3:Or not.
Speaker 1:So the trust internally the work has to happen internally. The trust externally. So a lot of people in such situations let's be honest a lot of people are waiting for you to fail. A lot of people Especially for you to fail a lot of people especially for those put that that type of position and you're a woman and that's not bad.
Speaker 1:Um, the woman factor to me plays less of a role. It was more for me always the, the young kid at the table, like, and you are going to tell us, like, what to do, like what was your three at three at this point, right yeah and I'm pretty sure you had a deal with people who were, like, above your age, like, of course, but also very knowledgeable people
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, you know, and not only internally, but think about externity, all of the hotel gms were always the majority, if not all are male, males at the table. So you know you get used to okay coming in and there are male jokes and I'm sure back in the day it was worse than today, of course.
Speaker 2:That's why I added the fact of the female, because I know it's mainly a male-dominated industry for the most part.
Speaker 1:It's a male-dominated industry at that level, because there are many female people who work in the industry, of course, but at that level of CEOs, gms.
Speaker 3:Mostly male.
Speaker 2:Especially a few years ago, it wasn't the most common thing, and nothing wrong with that, necessarily.
Speaker 1:But uh, the majority, if not all, of the gms um of the hotels on island are male.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, our majority of them like also international, I know I know a few of them.
Speaker 1:them, the majority are international as well.
Speaker 3:That's kind of nice. They bring their knowledge from abroad Like, hey, this is what we're doing in X, Y, Z.
Speaker 1:So you deal with government as a key player, as a key stakeholder, and you deal with private sector, where hotels are a key stakeholder as well, and on both ends, the one thing that I want to say is that, indeed, they bring in the knowledge. Um, there is a lot of uh respect for those who assume such positions, but a government is here for a term of four years to start with.
Speaker 1:a gm is also here for x number of years yeah, clock that t and and both, and you are here on a consistent basis as the authority, uh, trying to move forward an agenda that consists of short-term, mid but also long-term aspects that need to be taken into account, so that that's um, that's a challenge, and you don't control the entire value chain of what you sell, but you have your responsibility of selling or making sure that either what you're promising abroad and selling that it meets or, ideally, exceeds expectations. So how do you so? The intricacies of working for the AT is complex.
Speaker 3:Very. I mean, I can't even imagine like, for example, let's put the government aspect in there, like if every four years it changes the government, hey, I have a different plan. I'm like, yeah, but in this square I don't know how to do it, but hey, I don't care, how can I change it to do that? But do you feel like that's a big challenge for you?
Speaker 1:How do for you, how do you convince them out this, what we're doing right now, is working around, I think. I think there's a lot of, and we saw it also during the um, the recent electoral uh campaigns and period, by the way, sorry, thank you for supporting that, by the way you guys. You guys supported our podcast during the election.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much yes, very, very important for those who are yeah, aspiring were part of the political scene as candidates, but also very important for the community, meaning the voters, to be aware of certain aspects that we wanted to push forward. So, indeed, during that period, we even promoted the fact that you can go and download the full ATA plan for 2025. That means that Curacao can download it, others can download it, but no problem. No problem, but in any case, what was I saying?
Speaker 3:We talk about the politicals. How do you deal with that? The?
Speaker 1:fortunately, and you saw it also during that that period that I think many are aligned in terms of um. We need to pursue a sustainable development of tourism. We have issues with expansion in terms of room inventory and not being adequately prepared and geared to to accommodate that such developments. Accordingly, think about housing, think about health care, think about labor, think about, I think, everybody's kind of aligned um, it was a hot topic.
Speaker 3:That's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Everybody's like all right, we're all on the same page so so what we, what we encounter, um, let's say, on a political level, might be now and then the how? Okay, we need to prioritize this project over the other.
Speaker 1:But not the general vision. I think we've also built a credibility as the ATA that the vision is present on an integral level, on a governmental level, in Aruba's master plan, or in Aruba's economic policy or zoning policies, et cetera, et cetera. The issue with Aruba and this is not one government or the other, but it's a structural thing is the execution. The execution is always lax. So we need government, we need authorities to be able to adequately push certain things. And when it comes to execution, think about the speed, the bureaucracy, think about the prioritization, the lack of manpower, think about not only projects or actions such as infrastructure project one, but think about not only projects or actions such as infrastructure project one, but think about also legislation pieces that we we would like to see changed. So, but then again, for instance, there is a lack and there is a shortage of people with legal knowledge so that's a dilemma.
Speaker 1:That's a dilemma in terms of um executing yeah but execution means also controlling things that need to happen as per the law or as per policy in a certain way and are not happening accordingly, so with no control free for all pretty much yeah everybody doing whatever they want, nobody's like so that. So that is something that requires the attention, yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, speaking of knowledge, you just mentioned something that we talked about during a political era. There was a main question where we talked about redefining the type of tourism that we want in Aruba. We talked about redefining the type of tourism that we want in Aruba and I felt like that's something that everybody did not fully understand what was being said, because it was like oh, we want to change the type of tourism that we attract, and so we're like oh, so you don't want, like, you only want rich tourists to come, and yada, yada, yada. So can you please break this down so people can finally understand what exactly that statement was about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not sure which statement specifically you're referring to, but of course I get the notion of what you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Or it was one of the questions that we were asking the politicians in regards to. So a lot of people were asking about that.
Speaker 1:Because one of the things that I get when I say Aruba is expensive, some people tend to see it as something negative, and actually I don't mean to position it as something negative. I think that Aruba has earned a positioning where it can command certain prices and people pay it, so that I see it as a positive thing. Because, also, guess what, if we enter into the game of tourism and compete based on price, that means that we are lowering price, we're using price as a hook, we are lowering our prices to attract people. You don't want to do that, because that means that you're getting less per person coming in because they are paying lower prices. Because your game, your competitive game, is based on pricing. We cannot enter that game in such a manner.
Speaker 1:We have been able to position Aruba as a relatively more expansive destination in comparative terms with others, certainly in the Caribbean. We want to maintain that and ideally we want to increase even more what people are leaving behind in the economy. So per person coming in in the economy, so per person coming in. So the only way that we can do that is by ensuring that the experience that they get gives them that sense of it's worth my money and ideally I want to come back also so that lowers the acquisition costs that we apply per person. So when we look at our investments, we know what our acquisition cost is to get certain people in Aruba. We know also what they spend.
Speaker 3:So we know the return on investment per visitor et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:So anyway. So to start with the pricing factor, the fact that we're higher priced is not a negative thing In order to then attract the people who are going to spend more. Then, indeed, you are increasing the attributes and perhaps also, surely, the acquisition cost per visitor, because you are going after people that might be a bit more exclusive. You don't want to enter in a cycle that you're attracting people who are not a match because they are two way up there. That is not Aruba, so you just need to find that sweet spot Somewhere in between, and it's not only about how much the targeted uh visitor earns.
Speaker 1:So the money factor is important. We only go after some people who earn a certain level of money yeah you know, but it's also about um we look at.
Speaker 1:The ideal profile of visitor is you have X earnings, but you also have a behavior where you appreciate, for instance, a beach vacation, a family vacation, or you appreciate what we're doing more and more now, the fact that we want to protect our island. So that's a significant shift. These are things that you, the public, does not see, because these are programs on the back end, because our marketing is heavy digital heavy, heavy digital.
Speaker 3:I was just thinking. I can't imagine the data of like specific person targeting. I'm like it is gold, I'm like we have I'm like we have too much data I think at the at we need to make sure the at you know, uh, that analysis does not lead to paralysis yeah, yeah, get stuck and discussions can take place forever. Would you say like, but would you say we?
Speaker 1:have a lot of data and we move. You know, we, we expand the attributes that make up the ideal visitor, and these are the people who get served our content. Yeah, true, not only then, the digital platforms are actually digital platforms, but that means also TV, et cetera, et cetera, of course Programmatic.
Speaker 3:TV and blah, blah, blah yeah. So that's the way we approach the markets and yeah, that that is what I mean with yeah in a way it's the richer people, but it's kind of like if, if, if, 10 people came to aruba and they spent 100 bucks within 10 people, now you have two people that come to aruba. You still have the same amount, but less impact on damage on nature and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Therefore, it is also very important, because we cannot follow the strategy and we stand for a strategy where actually we want to. We talk about capping volume. We cannot continue and that's the agenda that we're bringing forward, especially these days behind the doors with people who are forming government and with new people in the political scene as well. The agenda is that we need to cap volume.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's a challenge. It is a challenge.
Speaker 3:I didn't say no.
Speaker 1:We have new properties coming on board. We value our partners. We welcome them on board. We value our partners, we welcome them. In reality, what we envision is that we might be able to achieve that to some extent by basically adjusting and changing our strategy to one that would entail that Aruba will see a lower occupancy percentage. Last year, as per AHATA's information, the hotels closed the year with an occupancy percentage of 86% Very, very high, very high. So they increased occupancy and people kept paying more for their stay.
Speaker 3:So super super year again. It's a great spot to be in.
Speaker 1:It's a great spot but then now I mean, how about we shift the thinking? Indeed, but we don't go only then, using your example, we get the two people, but we don't want them to spend the $100,000. You want to?
Speaker 3:spend $300,000.
Speaker 1:We want them to spend the $300,000. Yeah, correct, yeah.
Speaker 3:So revenue you want to spend 300, we want them to spend the 300. Yeah, correct, yeah so revenue wise, profit wise. You've increased a different formula, right, still keeping the impact on the damage of the island. Yes, super low exactly so you won't see like 3 000 atvs roaming around. You'll see 100 instead of yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:I have a question now. We have to speak about this now because okay, so I get nervous. I completely understand what that means. Oh no, I just, it's just I mean Shark.
Speaker 3:Does this the tongue, the?
Speaker 1:tongue, because you said some things and I'm a listener. I'm a listener.
Speaker 2:Okay. So this? I worked in the hospitality industry for like nine years, so I understand exactly how this works. I understand all of this and great, but I feel like it's only from a. It's a perfect perspective from ata, which is your job, that's your thing, it's your cookie, so it's 100 understandable. But I understand now why this balance between you and the government is extremely important, because your focus is not on the locals. That's where the government falls, should fall in place to be like this.
Speaker 2:Also, this formula makes the island more expensive for also the locals, because these same people are now coming.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, they're coming, but now they're shopping in our supermarkets and our supermarkets are now like well, the demand for these products are high, let's raise the price, the demand for, oh, they're getting sick, they have to go to their pharmacies, they're now using our medicine, so price also goes up because the demand is larger.
Speaker 2:They can pay for it. So now, the island is great for these people that can afford to come here and spend $300, the two people Great. But what does that now mean for your local people that get the minimum wage salary and all these other things and they probably have to work two jobs to even try to go to some of maybe our local restaurants. Locals can really much afford to go to a lot of these restaurants because their prices are also now jacked up. So how does that work? Or how do we get to a healthy balance where, yes, we're still attracting all of these great people that are spending, because we also have the fact that they are also staying in Airbnbs now versus staying in hotels, so that means they're shopping way more in the groceries and all these other things.
Speaker 1:So that factor. Wow, a lot of good points, a lot of good points, excellent, first of all. So tourism is the pillar of the economy, so tourism is the way to basically stimulate and get to a point of a, a better, uh, uh, an Aruba that can uh provide to its citizens, uh, a higher or a better sense of wellbeing. So quality of life, tourism is the vehicle for vehicle for that. So we need, we need the money to be able to afford that. That's one.
Speaker 1:So it remains very, very important and we I think we can all agree here that we support the formula Standard. And then the second, indeed another point is you do it for the people. You do it for the people. So our vision, for instance at the ATA, is so think about that. So you start with, and then comes the, then it's good to visit as well, but we work and our core purpose outlines the fact that we work for the betterment of quality of life of our residents. So we are also very much involved in engaging and having our local community as a key, key, key stakeholder. So it's government.
Speaker 2:I beg to differ a little bit.
Speaker 1:All right, give me a moment Of course no, go ahead.
Speaker 1:So it's government, the local community as well.
Speaker 1:We do not control everything there, of course.
Speaker 1:So we've had heavy discussions at the ATA, for instance when we were working on one of our business plans multi-annual business plans where the discussion was centered on the fact of okay, how do you measure your success was centered on the fact of okay, how do you measure your success? Is it GDP, the generation of GDP, so the money coming in in nominal terms, so without taking into account the increase in costs of living on the other hand, because when you factor that in, then the money that's, let's say, 10 guilder that you get, it doesn't give you the 10 guilders. What you get is actually because of high costs or increasing costs, you might actually get, like it's in reality, maybe five guilders, so that that level of increase in cost and your cost of living is something we cannot control. So the debate internally was that there was a consultant who was saying no, you're responsible for the gdp after factoring in that cost. And we're like no, we're responsible for bringing in the money, yeah, and then the cost we cannot control, the price of electricity and water.
Speaker 3:That's you guys, Mr Government.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we need the government, of course. So, ultimately, we want and we all need the people who need to benefit from tourism to truly benefit from tourism, and there is a disconnect. There is a disconnect which the AT cannot maybe that's your thinking cannot control, which I agree with you.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. We can control. You're doing your job, you're doing it, we can influence it through our message voice, through investments.
Speaker 1:here and there we can do what we can do, but ultimately, the cost of living and the fact that we have many people working two jobs is just not acceptable. 100% it's just not acceptable. And it's a difficult message to every month. It's a difficult message to convey and share. Oh, tourism is going well. Tourism is going well.
Speaker 2:Because, tourism is going well. It is, yeah. Billions is generated per year From that front.
Speaker 1:But then I get it. The people are feeling, are seeing the ma perde un beach mi noti e placa mi salubridat publico mi educacion mi camindana. Yes, it's. We need to make sure together it's a collective. We need to. We need to make sure together it's a collective effort. But we need to make sure that people really start but that's what I'm saying and seeing.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like ata is not doing a great job.
Speaker 3:I think you are doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing the, the other factor.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying. That balance is where we're not. We're not really great on, because the government is also focusing on what ata is supposed to focus on. They're also like oh, we're generating revenue with tourism. Oh, tourism is going so good. Oh, that's not what you're supposed to focus on. That's why we have ata doing the exceptional job that they're doing yeah that's, you need to focus on the other side of the cost of living people, that's not atas problem, that's your problem.
Speaker 2:You need to figure that out. So that's I'm saying that balance is where the people are not feeling the. What are you talking?
Speaker 1:about. So, to the, to those uh forming the government and and coming on board uh and being part of the new, uh, new government, one of the key messages that we have is that tourism is an integral matter. Tourism is not a matter of the Minister of Tourism. What we need from the government is we need tourism and the priorities that are to the benefit of the community to start with, and then they benefit tourism, of course, from where we need to get the money. We need a government that prioritizes these, and that means that there needs to be an inter-ministerial approach prioritizing all of these things that we have outlined.
Speaker 1:And one of the messages we have is that the groundwork is there, the groundwork has been done. We have a lot of actions. We have a lot of actions. We have a lot of things defined. Of course, we're open for feedback and we're open to work with governments, with NGOs, with private sector to tweak, to adjust, even the community to listen, adjust, et cetera. But there's a lot that has been done based on service amongst our residents, amongst our visitors. So we're eager to sit with those coming on board, even if it's the same government. Who knows, you never know.
Speaker 2:Don't matter, I'm going to hold you all accountable.
Speaker 1:But even if it's, people who are currently part of the government. We are eager to reach those moments where we can then indeed give them everything that we have already worked on and facilitate. Facilitate the work that has to be done and hopefully get their buy-in also, but through buy-in that these things will not only be prioritized but they will be executed.
Speaker 3:Amen, because execution, as indicated, is one of the pitfalls they love to talk we're gonna do this, this and this and this. I'm like we've been waiting for like two years, like you've said this two years ago. You know, people like to say what they're gonna do but, like you said, the execution part is where they all lack.
Speaker 1:It's easy for us to um to. I'm not saying that the governments do not do good things.
Speaker 2:We are very, very grateful.
Speaker 1:Our relationship with the various governments over the years. You have to realize in this job you need to work with government and the relationships have been great. The current minister of tourism still, I mean he prioritized product development.
Speaker 2:He left. He's very vocal too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he left so a lot of things that are good for the product, so the management needs to continue to evolve 100%. And what we see now, even a thought is even that the prime minister actually has to carry that integral agenda because it's inter-ministerial. We need the Ministry of Infrastructure on board. We need the Ministry of Education on board, we need the Ministry of Justice on board. So it goes through the various ministries.
Speaker 2:It's hand in hand for everybody.
Speaker 1:So that is a thought, that is a thought, that is a thought. You have the minister of tourism, but then you have, on a higher level, the, the chief, the, the commander in whoever's in charge, if it is the prime minister then that agenda has to be and you can even think about uh next to the prime minister and advisory boards. That then functions as a watchdog, as well, and then everybody I think the message is that we've we've done great as a ruba, we have an absolute remarkable position and you can ask position.
Speaker 3:You hear it from the tourists as well. I've been to many, many tourists are overall satisfied 100. I always come back.
Speaker 1:We are more critical but tourism tourists are. They're satisfied overall in general I mean but um, in seeing that. So where we are at right now, it's just, we cannot continue to do things the same, and the local population is voicing this also more and more, and we know that in other areas the anti-tourism sentiment has been even expressed in front of visitors or deliberately as well so imagine an aruba that is cordial, hospitable, which is one of our key strengths.
Speaker 1:Believe me, I you've all traveled, but it is for sure different than what you get in other destinations. Imagine if that were to turn into an anti-tourism sentiment.
Speaker 2:We cannot, we cannot afford that to happen, because that's not what we're looking for, because we only have tourism.
Speaker 1:yeah, so it is vital for the management of tourism and the governance model that is applied on a national level, so even on a governmental level, to be different. And that is why I say you can even think about a prime minister having to carry this. Perhaps you don't call it the Minister of General Affairs and Tourism, perhaps you call it just general affairs, and on their general affairs, you have the tourism agenda turismo 2035
Speaker 1:I'm just saying whatever, yeah I'm just saying just launching their turismo 2035, and everybody talks about turismo 2035 and this is the plan there's a long term plan.
Speaker 3:doesn't matter if there's the government today and the government in five years. Just stick to this plan, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry. The thing is it's not every day you have a Ronella sitting in front of you.
Speaker 3:I have so many questions for you when we asked me, he has like three, four, five follow up questions.
Speaker 2:I just got like three. I definitely want to ask you Go for it and then afterwards.
Speaker 3:I want to dive into like last year's goals and then like what are some goals that you guys have planned for?
Speaker 2:this year. Perfect, okay, okay. So let me ask you this one Do you see yourself, especially since you've been? You've moved around so much within your careers. The question would be how long do you see yourself in this role more and where do you see yourself going after this role? And is there somebody that you have as your next in line already in placed Then?
Speaker 3:I say two or three follow-up questions. Sorry, I called it.
Speaker 2:That's one question. Oh, I got two more Wow.
Speaker 1:And those are very, very difficult questions I can imagine. That's why I really would want to know that's one of my resolutions that has remained open for a number of years now in terms of okay, until when and what next? Because the until when depends on what's next and the what's next is undefined, and sometimes I question myself and I'm critical with myself as well, in that maybe you don't have to define it, ronela, maybe you just have to take the step and and see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as they always did, because that's because that's a different way of looking at it. So so it is. Yeah, it is something that is on my mind, but I don't have the answer. In terms of succession, well, not like there is a person at the ATA that is, that would be the person.
Speaker 2:But there are options, and not only internally, internally, but um do you see yourself training certain people, like, hey look, I'll give you a year of shadowing and then yeah yeah, yeah, I do, uh, when entertaining, doing other things, doing other things literally, and having to think about this and put names.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I did have some names that came up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now I have, or may I give you a suggestion for your next, because I feel like you've done such a remarkable job in tourism and I feel like even if you leave ata, I don't think that you should. Whatever else you're going to do after that, I think it still should have something to do within the tourism sector because, what she has to do afterwards. Yeah, well like whatever you do, if you decide hey, you know what ata. This is it. I've gotten to my peak.
Speaker 2:Thank you all love it I want a new challenge, yeah I feel like there needs to be another entity outside of ata or like something apart that is still in tourism very critical in tourism, and this was. This leads into my second question is would you ever do politics?
Speaker 3:Because maybe you don't have to do politics itself.
Speaker 2:But we just talked about that pit bull or that watchdog. That is the gap between ata and government. There's nothing in between there to be like hey, I know this and I know this, so who better?
Speaker 3:to do this, To oversee, like hey, hey, hey, be Becky Bond. Like where are you going? Who?
Speaker 2:better, honestly, you have all the data, you have all the knowledge. You have the experience, you have the connections, you have the respect.
Speaker 1:Great question again Politics actually really politics.
Speaker 3:Every time there are elections here, I I get asked all, every, every single time yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you ever dabbled like maybe?
Speaker 1:I did yeah I have I have. Yeah, yeah, I have. But at that point in my ex-husband was so. He was the minister of the Netherlands and Thielies for economic affairs and labor. He started his own party.
Speaker 2:So a politician.
Speaker 1:And we said, okay, might not be the best decision to have two politicians in one house. I mean politics is also. Politics can be shaky.
Speaker 3:One day you're in, the other day you're out.
Speaker 1:So that was the conclusion at that point. And then you know, I don't discard that only because I know that there's so much to be done on that level. And indeed it's a noble function. It comes with a lot of hardships, of course, but the ceo of the rebuttals and authority I mean hello, it's like the same, it's like you're yeah, it's, it's the same, you're like I.
Speaker 1:I say you are like a continuous politician you are because you're not bound to terms of four years, but you're there and you still have to do it a lot like being a politician, um, but yeah, who knows, who knows, that might be like a minister or something, but that might be I mean it could also be like I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I agree with you that, uh, indeed, it makes sense. It makes sense that, uh, anything, you, that you continue to contribute to what is so not only important for Aruba, but what is so close to my heart and who I am, you do it so effortlessly anyway, strong belief and strong interest in making sure that, oh no, but we have to go that path, we have to follow that path, we have to go that direction and I can imagine myself I know myself seeing things that are not going well, that I cannot just let that happen without playing a role in doing something about it. So, but that's me knowing myself as well. So, who knows? But I concur with you in terms of your thoughts and it might be a logic thing. Okay, perfect, I love that.
Speaker 3:Okay, this is my last question for you let me know when you're done I am. This is the last one. This is the last one. I swear that's what you always said. That's like wait one more. Sorry, I swear this is the last.
Speaker 2:This is the last. You're already wearing orange, okay, so I want to know about the orange economy. Of course now we've. We just came back from curacao and they are already active within that economy. There. They use their local talents as influencers. They use like every single thing I feel like, especially in that economy. They're already there and where Aruba is probably not as yet and we've seen a lot of the times and it's something we've been pretty vocal about in regards to we pay top dollars for influencers from abroad to come out and promote the island. Would that not be a better switch to do your local talents and have them broadcast their regular daily lives and the island to promote?
Speaker 1:go ahead, keep going I just want to add something when you're done. I think I know what you're going to.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure, but to promote the local talents and showing the authentic Aruba for what it exactly is going to different local restaurants, going to different beaches, going to every single thing that we want to authentically promote, versus what these people will come and be like. Okay, well, here, just go on this tour, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this. Okay, now promote my island Versus. Okay, hey, this is Papiamento and we're actually going to go to this place right now. We're going to try this out and yada, yada. It's two different selling points and two of them are going to give you completely different datas, correct, so?
Speaker 3:just to add. I mean no, just instead of flipping the whole thing, maybe if there's a big budget, you take 30 to 40%, 30% of the budget. Okay, let's find a chef, two chefs. Let's find someone a tour person and give them like a salary hey, you got to go out there by counting nature make a vlog. Build a community around your stuff to help. Um. One, you're supporting the local creator. Two, you're you're building a community with this creator that people authentically follow this person for aruba. Because, let's be honest, like when it comes to commercials, it's super someone's super over glorified of like super walk on the beach, your whole hand, you're skipping into the sunset like I I get it.
Speaker 3:It's commercial, it's business. But we offer way more than that people. People also want to see the raw. Like hey, whatever, like oh shit, anyways, like you know that part of investing in the local people and help them build a number of months, like a year, I have a salary of four hundred and three for a month. I spend a vlog of two weeks and three reels A full year and then, once you're done, they build a community. I will go get your brand deals, okay, next one, and then that's how you and then you send them outside.
Speaker 2:And then, while you're working, you also make collaborations with the other local influencers. So now your reach is even bigger, Until okay your year is up.
Speaker 3:Next person Boom. You can sustain yourself now in a way Because you've built your own brand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought you were going to say that you were part of one of our activations a number of years ago.
Speaker 3:When I had hair. My name is Samila. This is my Aruba as an example.
Speaker 2:As an example.
Speaker 1:I did as an example of so there are moments where we link this to a particular campaign.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But okay, every time we look at agencies from abroad and specialized agencies who come here, I remember.
Speaker 3:Greg.
Speaker 1:Who come here and who have to are in charge with delivering production work that has to be of a certain caliber that we don't necessarily get here. It is a must for them to work and collaborate with local talent. So I can proudly say that many have benefited from not only the experience, but these are paying engagements of course you know, and the spillover too, of like you get other opportunities to yes, because because we need.
Speaker 1:We need our content producers, our, our content providers, we need them to to be on island as so as to capture the essence, the authenticity of things, making sure it is culturally relevant for our proper representation, if you will, of Aruba culturally relevant, but also, of course, it has to work in the markets internationally. One point that I do want to add is that, um, because we have the data, because we have the data, a lot um too, much people do gravitate a lot to our beach content.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so aruba is first and foremost beaches beaches, sunset, award-winning beaches, yeah sun sand, etc.
Speaker 1:But we do put out other content we want to do. We have been doing more of that and we want to continue to do more and more of that. We put it out through different channels, including also taking chefs to different markets where the people get to meet the chef or meet the talent in another area maybe music, it might be something else. We do do that as well. Um, you were very concrete in terms of okay, um, influencer on a monthly basis, a retainer it's another very consistent yeah, I think we can.
Speaker 1:We can explore that, but we work with a big pool of content providers on different areas. So think about photography, who a lot, a lot of people have work, uh, that they do with the ata um written content, so written pieces is very, very, very important for us Videography, also Music.
Speaker 1:So the local talents that we have also have participated. So it's a combination. It's a combination. I know we do invest more in this, but also I started by saying that it's a prerequisite that when you work for Aruba, for the ATA, in productions, in big things, you have to engage local talent, because we want to train them. We want to basically make sure that they get to experience this as well.
Speaker 3:That's one thing. I do have to be accredited, but I will take your points into consideration and see, Actually I can go back and see Put us on the board. Put us on the board.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, no, I'm joking, I can go back and see how much we invested, like X years ago, and where we stand now and now. See if we grew that investment. I think I would dare to say yes, but also maybe the how. So you had a concrete example as well. In terms of influencers. Yeah, let me take that back. No, for sure, Let me take that back and see, yeah, where we stand and what else we can do.
Speaker 2:Perfect.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I realize that the ATA is unique. It's unique in what we can offer and I realize that we can play and we have to.
Speaker 2:It's a moral responsibility.
Speaker 1:It's a good corporate citizenship responsibility, just being a good corporate citizen. We have to. So let's see what else we can do.
Speaker 2:But we do it through music events we do it through concert events. Oh for sure, you guys do things that bring….
Speaker 3:Yeah, you guys organize At least you're part of some like for the flip flop or something like that like those big festivals that help bring like Authentico.
Speaker 1:Authentico was like the student, the student chef not going.
Speaker 3:I don't know what I was doing. I was busy with projects and works and then on the major domingo, and somehow it's only when it's like damn. So we showcase a lot of talents through different avenues, because Autentico and these types of events have a lot of international press and celebrity coverage and food doesn't like food.
Speaker 1:So we make sure the two also meet Of course.
Speaker 3:So in very short, in 2024, what are some goals you guys had? I don't know if you have time, you got to go somewhere. I think a meeting already, I think he left the office.
Speaker 2:Sorry, oh, god time, I know so what is?
Speaker 3:what is some very short, what is some goal that you're proud of that you hit last year? Everybody likes to talk about success, so what is one goal that you had but you didn't hit last year? On a personal uh, more like at that's. What about?
Speaker 1:that we did not what's the goal that you achieved like oh, we wanted this many okay one thing that, um, that, that that really has been there for a couple of years now is the fact that, uh, we have to change our legislation, the AT legislation, which was put in place in 2011, when the AT was made independent. There have been two changes, but we require more changes to be done to the legislation so that we can function even more effectively, and that is something that needs to be.
Speaker 3:I need to check mark that it's like slowing you down, it's not slowing me down, but it can.
Speaker 1:It stands for an even more effective organization. So, uh, it can take away some administrative yeah, you know, yeah, bureaucracy, yeah that is there that um, we can manage it differently okay, so everything is done, the recommendations are there and the whole the, even the legis, the legislative pieces, the articles have been drafted, etc. Etc. So that's one thing very dry, very boring but it's also part of uh. The at is not only marketing. It is much more than than that it's financial management.
Speaker 1:Um, there's quite some investments and revenues that we manage at the ATA. It's human resources management. We have offices in Bogota, the Hague and New Jersey. We have multiple team members all over the place. We have investments in approximately 15 markets. So there are 15 different countries with different cultures, with different legal requirements. So it's complex. It's a bit from that perspective as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what is one goal for this year that you guys have on your list? What's the goal for 2025?
Speaker 1:To make sure that our vision of responsible management of tourism, that we reach as many people as possible with that vision and that we have more alignment, but not only on a paper document and feeling and opinion level, but also on execution level okay, I'm set with questions.
Speaker 3:Okay, you're good. Yeah, I'm good all right, ranella, I want to say thank you for taking your time on your day for coming. We always say like it's only going to be an hour. It's an hour and a half by now, but I want to say thank you for coming on the show, um, and I wish all the best to 2025. What Shark said get some balance. I'm also taking some of that page because I've always needed it in my life.
Speaker 3:And for this camera real quick. Where can people find all the information about ATA their plans you mentioned something about? They can go and download the plan, so where can people find that information?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they can find. You can find everything pieces of research that we conduct. But when can people find that information? Yeah, you can find everything pieces of research that we conduct, but also our plan for 2025 on Atapant Away. Go to knowledge base and there you find a lot of information. Yes, we're very happy to see that many people make use of this and, before I leave, this was such a pleasant and easy conversation perfect so thank you for making me feel at home.
Speaker 1:It was um very good question, so thank you for that thank you for allowing me to make use of the platform to just again what the goal is for this year just to convey what I feel, what I think, what the team thinks, but also to share some personal thoughts and personal insights and thank you for being very open and honest.
Speaker 2:Like you, shared a lot of data. You shared a lot of knowledge.
Speaker 3:And personal stuff that I wasn't even expecting that part of the conversation.
Speaker 1:I was like oh, wow, we're going this route. Yeah, we spent quite some time on that. Thank you, and I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:I'm like dude, this is also a human being. Like she also has her things, personal stuff that she's going through. So people were like think like more sympathy, like okay, like shit chill, a little bit relax she went through that. I feel bad because I cussed her out during that time. I'm like damn.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry but, once again, thank you. It comes with the territory, so hey, no problem, no problem.
Speaker 3:Guys, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Comment, subscribe. Leave a comment. We're actually learning about Ronella. What are some things you guys want to see in 2025? And maybe Ahata. I mean Ahata, ahata.
Speaker 1:Sorry.
Speaker 3:What's up? Tisa Ahata could be reading the comments and maybe it's a good thing, so leave a comment.