Arrested, Censored, and Fighting for Aruba: Nigel Maduro’s Story | EP 235

Paradise only works if the people who live there can breathe.

In this episode of No Filter in Paradise, we sit down with activist and sustainability strategist Nigel Maduro for a raw and revealing conversation about Aruba’s biggest challenge: mass tourism and the future of the island.
Nigel shares his journey from a tough, community-first childhood in Aruba, to living and studying in the Netherlands, working alongside the Greenpeace organization, and eventually returning home with a new perspective on sustainability, culture, and activism.

Along the way, he opens up about letters to government officials that went unanswered, censored protests, and even a brief arrest that exposed deeper problems in how activism and environmental concerns are handled on the island.

But this episode goes far beyond protest.

We break down the real conversation Aruba needs to have:
• What people actually mean when they say “no more hotels”
• Whether Aruba should cap tourism
• The impact of cruise ships and vacation rentals
• Sewage, coral reef collapse, and polluted waters
• Why ATV and UTV tourism needs a transition
• Protecting mangroves, dunes, and sacred cultural sites
• How Aruba can move from volume tourism to value tourism

Nigel also shares why culture, heritage, and local knowledge must be part of the conversation if Aruba wants to protect its identity while still supporting the economy.

This is not just about tourism.

It’s about the future of Aruba.

If you care about the Caribbean, sustainability, or the future of small islands facing big industry pressure, this conversation is for you.

👍 If this episode resonates with you, subscribe to No Filter in Paradise, share it with someone who loves Aruba, and leave a comment with one thing you think should change about tourism on the island.

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Transcript

New Radio Announcement & Cold Open

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Listen, I know the episode is about to start, but I just gotta tell you this. We are now going to be on the radio. XFM 102.7 FM Babies, no filter is about to take over. So your Saturday mornings are about to be even better. Okay, enjoy the show now.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

But I'm not fuck out we focus on a minute. I don't like none of y'all going on.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

No, and that's what I'm saying. I think our entire system just needs a whole fucking reboot with everything.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Like a couple years ago when he started money. I've been warning you and people.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Like legit, legit. Going to like heavy depression and like people are like going through it.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I have nothing to lose. Like I lost everything. But my island is disappearing right in front of my eyes.

SPEAKER_05 1:00

I thought she says episode last week.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

This was a specific letter directly to a village. Shout out, Anti Anki, Magiol. Um you didn't answer this, but okay. Wait a minute. I need to get out of here, but so it's a number.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Alright.

Hosts Introduce Nigel Maduro

SPEAKER_08 1:35

Hey yo, what's up?

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I like Mr.

SPEAKER_08 1:37

Guys, welcome back to the ABC Islands Favorite Podcast, No Felder in Paradise. A show about anything and everything between two friends. One is straight and the other.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Your favorite homosexual black person, baby.

SPEAKER_08 1:49

I think I gotta keep going, but alright, how long?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Don't do that. Alright, cool.

SPEAKER_08 1:52

Guys, today we have a guest. Um, as you can see, we got a little trend going. I mean, we're okay with thumbnail cabo.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

We have a little little game.

SPEAKER_08 2:02

No, no, no, no. No, let me finish quite a bit.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_08 2:05

Little trend going. We had Tisa last week. We talked about masterism. So you want to continue the conversation. So we brought somebody who's very vocal about the situation. So obviously, you guys already know who he is. You saw thumbnail, we got Mr. Nigel Maduro.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Oh look, I'm going to go to the luna bunga. All of that. Did you say Boluna? Like it's the beginning of the Bonuna. Yeah, and tomorrow's gonna be a lunar eclipse too. So it's like what do you say at the end of the month? Salari Paso does. You gotta like it, you gotta say happy. That is not what I was going, but uh celebrate luna time. You made it, you made it.

Childhood, Loss, And Community Roots

SPEAKER_08 2:52

We all worked hard throughout the whole freaking month. Too damn hard. So yeah, so we do. So Nigel, obviously, we've mentioned you multiple times on the show. You've been on Shark's Papi went to English, by the way. You could do all the books. Cool. So you've been on Shark's show before on the radio. And I know I've mentioned Shark, like we need to bring on the show, and we never found the right timing because I we wanted to connect it to something else. So like we just had Tisa last week, so we're like, you know what? Now I told Shark, now it's a good time to bring Nigel because it's a big topic right now, masterism, too many tourists, blah blah blah blah blah. But before we jump into that, yeah, let's dive a little bit into history. Like, okay, who are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, I want I I think we want to go go into like give us a few years back, like six, seven-year-old Nigel.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I can go to the roots. All right.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

What was that life like? What how did you grow up? How was give me that, give me that?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

I grew up very humble, very humble. But the ghetto, like the real ghetto, North, North. So I witness, so I witnessed everything changing right in front of my very eyes. So it's like both sides sides of the island. So me to money, I already heard the English earlier. Yeah, it's a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Was he like raised in San Nicolas or something? I couldn't tell you.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

No, I'm not Sanicolas tama. So I have both love for either side and anything in between. Um so I grew up very humble. Um I've seen a lot of things happen in the hood, but I was a lot around a lot of crime, a lot of like drugs in the neighborhood, but also community. So, I'm not sure. But I see the real essence of being in a Caribbean island. And profoundly, like how we work together within a system in a small community like that. And so, um yeah, I I I basically grew up there. Um I'm an orphan actually. So I'm an orphan. Not many people don't know about that, but so I hope you're not only that. I'm an orphan. I'm an orphan. Um I I ancestors up there, so um, yes, all of them, all of them. I'm the oldest one in my bloodline right now. So in my direct bloodline, so I'm the elder. So Mr. Diman SNCD wisdom when it comes to like upholding family values and ancestry and to whatever comes with life. Um, but I was raised by my guardian. Um, she's a Dominican woman, she's not here with us anymore. Uh CCC. Shout out, love you. See, so she's not here, but she raised me like uh work hard, uh, like really use your mind and also be an important person in your community because that's what she was.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Okay, so if I may, what happened to you like your parents?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Um, okay. Oh, so we're going, we're going, we're going like that. Welcome to No Filter. Like, see, see, see, see. So everyone watching about to get real personal here. So um, my father died when I was two, uh, motorcycle accident, and my mother died of suicide. So, yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_08 6:18

And my what what old were you when your mom passed away?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

18. So at that age, well, just yeah, but she was estranged.

SPEAKER_08 6:26

My mom died when I was 18.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Ah, there we go.

SPEAKER_08 6:28

Yeah, but cancer in my case.

Studies Abroad And Finding Activism

SPEAKER_00 6:29

I know they're having fun up there, so our mother partying. I know them well. Hey! See, so uh, but she was estranged when I was a child as well. So, um, but I was raised by my guardian, and to Ella passed away in 2020 before COVID, before the entire shebang happened. Um But sad, see, see, see. So I witnessed a lot of like death in around me in my community. CCC, and to grow up very fast. Faster. Very fast. But uh leading up to me growing up, like teen years trauma, kid years trauma. But also it's like you're also very humble in the sense that you can't be in the world. And I started by colleagues, Nicolas Tamb, so in an last year's study abroad. And to graduate um colleagues Nicolas, uh shout out to Saint Nicolas, do you know me education? Love it. I also got a lot of sense of community there. So despise to say, um, yeah, I uh go study to the Netherlands. Like I went to study to the Netherlands. Um I went This was what year? Uh 2016. 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_08 7:58

Boy, how old were you when you went to study abroad?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Uh 1819. Okay. Oh yeah, see, six. So ma kabi cumpli, like no, 19, I was 19. See, so ma buy in nung ma study for my bachelor's in um international human resource management. So I have an HR background as well. Hey, clap that seat just in case, but just so you know, I know how to scan labor markets, I know about organizational behavior, work psychology, I know recruitment, I know everything about those things. So let me let me talk my shit. Um so that was my bachelor's, but also my because I'm a nerd, like also go for an honors program. So honors in um creativity and finance and management. So I mixed them together and voila, and I graduate. Um writing my thesis and all that stuff. I took a break, like I took a one-year break. I was like, Hulanda, and so I was like I was fed up with Netherlands. I was like, I'm in a colonized land, like it's just a little too much. And to me to work money, and people get like they get too accustomed to Netherlands, and I don't wanna do that. Like, mm. So accustom how? But the one and time to be some free land, and time to be a hope must be individual individualistic.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

And especially you coming from a sense of community from the island and especially the values that you are from, to go there and then become very much like, hey, um, you're you need help? I can't help you, sorry. Absolutely.

Greenpeace Tactics And Identity

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Absolutely. So it was like all of those things, I know me values. Let's just go far, far, far away and to buy money but fuck New Zealand. Ma bay nabian New Zealand. Ma bayinang um during it periods give me things. So I had a lot of free time and flexibility. So I one month to another, like I just sold everything in my house. I was stable. Ma just been to course, and I mean whatever, deuce, deuces, stay away from the city. So buy New Zealand, like what the fuck am I gonna do now? Like, just buy as free as I can. Everything I just mean, sure. Take me wherever you want. I'm already in the corner of the planet. So like give me anything you want me to receive and Greenpeace, New Zealand. So Greenpeace ta basically environmental non-profit organization on the activism. And that's where I learned it. Greenpeace is like very much more radical. The things that I done on Aruba. Uh-huh, uh-huh. So it's basically like a protest about like a lot of environmental violations. And to say to the me first ever job job, like corporate job. Corporate, yeah. And to me to money, okay, and to inang ma get a job in HR department, but I was also like an activism part, and to a community mobilization, hopefully, I've been in like blockades to stop oil companies from drilling in New Zealand, and they stopped. Stopped. I was there. I was the only Ruben there doing that, helping them out. And to order a Maori community, Maori tahin ng indigena di New Zealand. And to ng me, walk me, and also indigenous, right? And then nung it all clicked. I am. Antan, yeah, you're Caribbean Arawak. Yeah, the Arawak speak people, like other indigenous peoples are seeing me. So, I'm not sure. And identity crisis, who am I? I've been so accustomed to Aruba, I've been accustomed to Netherlands, I'm not saliferain this, and I woke my saliferain this, and to Pueblo Indigenous, I'm not going to be able to do it. I haven't practiced that in Aruba because they're not ready.

SPEAKER_08 12:53

We're gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

They're not ready for that.

SPEAKER_08 12:55

Like Swee Hilton, don't test them.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

No dunami there. Don't threaten me with a good time. But going with like speed boats to like oil rigs in the coast, putting up banners on top. Like, I've learned all those things, how to block people from coming in a building. Like, I haven't practiced it in Aruba. Not to the full extent. I don't think we're there, but uh I could I could get there if push comes to shove, but I don't want to. So in activism, environmentalism, I was always like a kid, like, chiquito, no me to tame. So um after that, okay, COVID hit while I was in New Zealand. So I was like, okay, um, before COVID hit, like my guardian passed away. So me no power. So she passed away in February. COVID was in March. She passed, like, it was an uncomfortable period. But so nice period, hey, Mr. Rashid, I couldn't just like dip out of New Zealand, which is like so far away. So, like I couldn't be there for the funeral. And the meeting, okay. What she would tell me is like, Boy, better lock in. You on your own. And the mid the money, okay. She would want me to stay my ass in New Zealand, work, get my degree, do my thing, and COVID hit. I love COVID during New Zealand, because New Zealand promised eradicated completely.

SPEAKER_08 14:35

So while everyone was in lockdown, as in like, hey, this is this is bullshit, like topa?

SPEAKER_00 14:41

No, eradicate as in like na clear it. Like, nah, no, it's not a good thing. And this is they got rid of it. Like everyone Nobody had COVID at all. So we just keep the borders locked, and then everyone inside could just like party. So I was like partying every other week. So I I I got a sense of that time because I've extra freedom that I'm learning about. After that, I mean, okay, visa ka duka, nanta bay, deportamis, you know so. And I got my degree until So you stayed in New Zealand for the year. A year, see, six. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

I don't I don't think at this point, that's like bullshit now.

SPEAKER_08 15:28

I mean you can still use that like how to manage people's listen.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

See, people management isn't necessary for the work that you do.

SPEAKER_08 15:36

Let's go.

Returning Home And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_00 15:38

You know what you're onto something. Um radicalize you. No, but I see. We'll see after this interview. So me to my kimi tana. Now I gotta go back in that mentality, hustle and bustle, nine to five. Cannot do that. Spiritually low vibrational, like. No. So I worked in corporate. I worked in corporate sustainability, like the organization's ng transition from like unsustainable practices to sustainability. And it was also HR there. So I was hiring everyone, the sustainability backgrounds, into the organization, but I was also guiding them on their social sustainability and nung processes. Bunch of corporate nonsense. Um sure, paga pagamento is amazing, but like at what cost? I don't know how people do this. I I can't do this. Like, where's my community? Like, but I can meet.

SPEAKER_08 16:43

This is in Holland, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 16:45

So after that, it's cold as fuck. Everybody's on their own.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Let me tell you, uh-uh, I can't do that.

SPEAKER_08 16:50

So you owe me 50 cents for that croquette that we split. I'm like, yeah, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Here's a tiki. What? Uh-uh. Back in my hood, two hand you pack another. Keep it pushing. Exactly. So after that, me to the money. I mean to money, okay. Spar. Spar, keep doing it. Like moolasang. Like work, madam ass off. And so this is what if I like fuck off again. Where'd you go this time? Sweden. Oh my god. So Redda. Uh-huh. See, I'm not sure. Ma by during like corporate days, me to the money looking into like master's degree. Because I was like, I kinda want that. I kinda wanna dive into that. But a master's degree.

SPEAKER_08 17:47

And then what exactly?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Uh so orakum by Sweden and I got acceptance. It was a master's of science in strategic leadership towards sustainability.

SPEAKER_08 17:56

So you're still in the same path that you wanted with just like sustainability and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

But it's not a bachelor's, but I have a fun day she made people management, organizational management. Step it up now. But I want me the money. Alright, we're gonna get locked and loaded wisdom and knowledge and skills. So Sweden, beautiful. I think I was the most stable in my life. Like in the money, I heard they they they're good.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

They're living good, it's cold as fuck.

Letters To Government Go Nowhere

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Very nice. It's cold as fuck, but it's dark. Yeah, but living situation is I can't complain. Like, but I was I was good. I was good there. Um study my masters unto my while I was studying my work on the side, small organization, like it's an agroecology organization, community-based, it's a community-centered, so ma you do sustainability advice and like guide them in their sustainability practices. So it's like, alright, more stuff added in the back pocket. Big brain, big brain things. And to me thesis, I specialize in in biodiversity conservation, indigenous people's rights, and to climate change, specifically climate justice. And then I meet, okay, gradua, and I meet great, like now what? Amazing. Um yeah back. It didn't work. Uh-uh. I have melanin, I need to use it. I can't do that. So this check out. See me poor money, try it one more time. I gave the Netherlands like a couple chances. So I'm like, okay, bang. I tried it one month in me. This is miserable. I can't do this. It was in summertime. I can't I can't stand it. I can't stand it here. Great. Mulasanka, please come back home. Um it's not for you. If you yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_08 20:10

I never lived there and I know it's not for me. It's not for me. I worked Augusto with Dutch people, like, well, they're different though.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

I just the trips we've done, I'm like, this is not for me. Let's just go back home. But so while I was studying, while I was like working, I was also keeping an eye out for Aruba. I to walk online money. Hotels are being built. What the fuck is happening back home? I left okay, unto deforestation. And keep a tremilumba, so minuta kiri, and to be back aruba. Karno, what year is this?

SPEAKER_08 21:02

Um 2023. So we got like a what, four or seven year gap in another. Time mine.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

So back, mind you. But being back new pair of glasses, you I ha Greenpeace, HR background, corporate sustainability background, agroecology, a scientific background, climate change, like botawak full mundo different, or being back in your humble little island, and to botawak.

unknown 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

It's drastic for you out there. We saw it the in the the development because we live here. It's like seeing your the same person every day. It's like, I don't know, they look the same to me. But somebody else will come in, they're like, Hold on. Hold on.

Graffiti Actions And Arrest

SPEAKER_00 21:52

See, so I get that. So when I when I saw that with my eyes, I was like, I can't. So during those two months, okay, let me just try to do something. Hey, is everyone okay with this? Like, are we Y'all good? Yeah. We living like this? Like what? The ghetto, like, I was like, look at you, I'm doing so on social media. I was a nobody.

SPEAKER_07 22:44

Like, I'm still a nobody, but push everything out. Exactly. Because you were the first person to start, at least maybe not the first, but at least the one who's been most vocal on social.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Most effective with it.

SPEAKER_07 23:05

And the turtle. That's when that two-month period. I saw a bunch of tourists on the turtle yesterday. Taking a selfie picture. Like, look, look. That's nice. I was like, that's illegal.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

I was like, I'm not sure. Who is causing trouble? I should have just looked in the bush just like you were just dropping dead.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

I went to the woods, I found this toad, I got the poison.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Let's see.

unknown 23:42

Oh my god, no, stop, stop.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

I know I know.

SPEAKER_08 23:45

I thought this is No No, there's this guy. Stanson, whatever it's. It's funny. It's what it's this tree in the rubber that it's poisonous. No, let's go. Okay, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

See, so I don't stop too many ideas. And you sure you don't want to be radicalized. I'm good at it. You came up with ideas.

SPEAKER_08 24:06

Look, you become a good idea. You came up with ideas because I like crazy movies. Yeah, I like active movies.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

You can make it reality. No, I'm just okay. I'm good. It's not true. So during that two month period, like what I'm being back, post on social media. Hey, is everyone okay with this? Yeah, get me like 20 likes. I'm trying. I'm trying. So meeting, okay, let's let's think further. What can I do? And to my kum is to send letters to our government and like our departments that are and I and I like that you're mentioning this because I feel like people don't know this.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

People think you just came to do the extreme. Give me receipts. Let's get better. Not a binder!

SPEAKER_05 24:47

I saw Tista's episode last week. She brought her binder. Everybody's bringing receipts.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

No, we're gonna follow receipts for the filter. Let's get it.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

This was the dip. This was a specific letter directly to Evelyn Minister. Shout out to Anchi, Anti Magiol. You didn't answer this, but okay. So there are receipts. Whatever. I did all of that. Yeah, and they got stamps. It got stamps bid. Like I tried, I tried, I tried, and I was like, okay, we're trying the professional way. Oh guys. Yeah, he's trying to break things up.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Oh sorry. Getting nervous.

Jail Conditions And Media Spotlight

SPEAKER_00 25:41

No, I I tried a professional way. I was like, okay, I'm a professional. I was uh I'm I'm I'm I'm I could do this. And so Marie Para, like my last month, not during my vacation there, Ruba coming to an end on the middle. Oh gosh, like nobody is listening, nobody's doing nothing. And if I leave a fuck nobody gives a fuck, and the middle money, what? So I was like, okay, y'all brought me no other choice, but I was like, okay, fine, I'll put on the activism hat. I thought it was a green piece. And I was like, just so people know, like me, me, me to experto de konang, protestado di Aruba. Why can't get people talking and media talking and the government talking? Oh, they don't like scandal. They don't like when the public outside finds out what's happening inside. But the show the reality, money, and I don't care. Like, I have nothing to lose. I didn't have like a lot of things. Yeah. I lost everything. I got this. Yeah. My island is disappearing right in front of my eyes. I'm clinging on. Like, I'm clinging on to the rest of what we have. Fine. I'll take one for the team. If if since nobody wanna step up to the thing, before like the people before me came, Helena Cruz, um Peter Sonny nang, um, I think Olinda Rasmein kwaigi tie herself to a tree, there were like people that crawled so I could run. Did they cut the tree? No, it's still there. Okay. It's a tree of Mata di Olinda Rasman. Um I did like back in the day, but no people thought she was crazy. And like a tree hug or whatever, and I meet, okay, I'll crank it up. So what I did like, okay. Let me just buy this fucking graffiti. Shittiflooding.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

What do you mean with multiple rounds? Let's like be clear with that. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

So what I'm can, kaba, that's it, but I still wanted to do more.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Because how much paintings did you get out of one can?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Um, it's hard to tell, but so I get like roads, um, some walls. But I'm doing four rounds, of course. I like a good walk. And to my strategic strategically, I think I think tourism hotspots and a lot of locals that go as well. So everybody's gonna say, it wasn't thought out, it wasn't planned, it was like out of anger, sure. But I did it in specific areas and the day of kuna I'm not toga, thing and nung. That was the last one that I did, by the way. That was the because I did it in in multiple other areas. Like there's a lot of areas that unamma spray paint turka mina. Remember gold mine coast, I think.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Was that on that one?

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Huh? Where that?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

The the the not not uh the I think so. Where did that have the gold mine? We oh was that on one as well?

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Which which gold mine? Because we have multiple, they extracted a lot from us.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Okay, well, they're the one gold mine all the tour coast. I don't know what that place is called.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

No, I ain't go back there. I ain't go back there. No, no, no, no. Too many spirits. Sally, somebody helped you as well. Somebody was shout out, whoever did see. Oh shit. Certain areas on the meetup. Oh, I didn't do that one. So I was like, okay. So it's catching on. So I'll keep going. So maha si money, a couple times until at last last time I was I was really pissed. I was really pissed because it was nearing the end of my vacation. And the I'm I got really upset. These leaders are not answering me.

unknown 30:19

Just keep talking, alright.

Protests, Censorship, And Strategy

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I'm covering your face, that's why I'm moving. See, these leaders are not answering me until everywhere unto ma at the last spot of the turton. Just one more. This one they put the shit. They put the turtle specifically there. But their actions or not to protect yeah. So I'm like, let me just put a caption on it. Yeah. But I I I don't, I I didn't tarnish. And it stands for something. See, until I just put it. So I respect it, but it needed a caption. So it was like, all right, done. Until we can't get it. Um, I'm in trouble now. Let's just sit back and watch what's gonna happen until Okay. At this point, how many days do you have until you have to leave? Uh a couple, like two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Okay, so you should have two weeks. Okay, less than two weeks for you to go back. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Less than two weeks. So I was like, okay, sure. Until at one point I was like, okay, what's gonna happen until Miss Thing, Miss Auntie, Evelyn, I'm not gonna shit, propaganda video, papiana dimini. Graffiti, not acceptable. And the art okay. Um, but then I was like, okay, so now it's like getting into like discussions with leaders. They're talking about it. And to botwa, post, okay, keep talking, keep going. Now you're bringing it. You fell for it. Now you're gonna do it. Now you're gonna actually bring it to the table. They brought more awareness to it. Like they helped sign the light on it. Exactly. So mita money, okay. Ah, we finally talk about the elephant in the room. Alright, so afterwards, I was like, okay, let me chill out. Like, I'm just walking freely, bah. And to despise Marie Paraku, like, none to investigation. See, Facebook before that, me to post about like no more hotels. So it was like pretty obvious. Yeah, yeah. See, but investigation probably. See, and I was doing like the hashtag normal hotels like before I did the graffiti. So it's like, okay. No, it wasn't that wasn't that hard. Like, come on. I wasn't hiding. I wasn't hiding. I was like, look at the cameras. I was like, I waved at the camera. I waved at a camera. And the despis, no man, okay. Did you get in a lot of trouble? Depends from who trouble. Sure.

SPEAKER_08 33:23

And that being like a vandalism. Put you in jail for a few days.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

I they got I they got arrested.

SPEAKER_08 33:29

You got arrested? Yeah. For three days. Wait, so I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. But before we continue, we just want to let you guys know that every single Monday and every single Friday, Shark and I drop a food review video on our food review channel called No Filter Eats. The link is in the description. So click it, go follow it, and let us know where should we go eat. If it's Aruba Bonero Curaçao or Holland, doesn't matter where. Let us know where we should go and we'll go try it for you guys. All right. So enjoy the show. Make sure to subscribe.

unknown 34:01

See ya.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

The day leading up to me being arrested, meet the money. Okay, I've done my job. Um, activism hat off. Like, we could put the scientific hat on.

SPEAKER_08 34:10

They come to you like, whoa, whoa, I stopped doing it. We're good. It wasn't me. It was that three days too late.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

It was the old body, it wasn't me, right? New spirit. See, so after that, like me to the money, okay, boom. Um my job is done. Like intrigue meas. Because I was like, okay, it's a petty crime. You don't get arrested for petty crimes like that, like graffiti. It's like, but the high man, tap on the wrist, and the basa and the door kubani. Tackle issues, like protests, manifestations. Either it was economic issues or social issues. But I tackled economic, social, and environmental issues. All three. The pillars of society. So I I think I had like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit. Yeah, I did it. And I'm gonna do it again. I was like, yeah, I did it, sure. And so this isn't the many, okay. Um I was like flight. Wait, so this is this is the part where it's like, okay, so what you're saying. Like, sure, arrest me. Take me. And then you and Tamita money, I'm just chilling. Okay, there's some free food. Horrible conditions, um, a lot of human rights violation. So they shouldn't have let me in there because now I understand the system from within. Yeah. Um, see.

SPEAKER_08 35:54

Can you arrest me like three more times? But I'm just wanna see.

Pushing Leaders For Real Meetings

SPEAKER_00 36:07

I just want to talk to everyone in there. I just want to talk. And then I'm a trauma bond, like all the boys in there. And to party hine ding to the dimi bar you can, and what are the police?

SPEAKER_01 36:18

And when they saw me, they're like, You were always a small, quiet, like you were a good kid. Like, what are you doing here?

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Okay, but I'm still a punk ass, like I'm still hood. So it's like, this is a conversation changed the course of like how I view the justice system, time and the rubber. So, he was like, El patron, nah, because I'm not gonna do it, and then you can't do it. But what got him in there to kacho, and to eliminase persona be sa, hey, me to be fucking dying. And he still ended up a ding. And to amigo akami full manera. Sorry?

SPEAKER_08 37:07

So, just won't beat you up.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

See, and to it pueblo. So it's like a ding pueblo, amakami pita, pafika pueblo, pafoderuba, and we still ended up in the same motherfucking system. We both trauma bonnet, and we cried, and he saw me when I was a little boy, like when I had a little bunch, and alright. This is pissing me off even more. I didn't know what was happening outside. No social media. No wak noticia. Just chill, but my young.

SPEAKER_08 38:01

What?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

No more hotels everywhere. And I was like, oh, they done fucked up. Like now the entire mass, like national meanti, ow. You arrested this young educated individual stand up for something on the island. And to besides. For the island. For the island, by the island, with the island. And to fully pasta, and it was very uncomfortable. But so it was a lot of eyes on me. And so I'm I'm typically introverted. So I would see that. It's a lot uncomfortable with my social battery running out. And they were threatening other people around me. So I was threatening them, and to put there was cars following me around. So the next day, like I fled Aruba. The next day, I'm not sure. I need to get out of here.

SPEAKER_06 39:07

Like, I know you don't know what's gonna happen.

What Fixing Mass Tourism Looks Like

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Okay, so I fled my bai, hulan mmoney, says Luna, and to my wak money, I'm gonna get back to the biggest. I hated it. I was just damn bitch, like one more chance. Give me a damn break. And I mean, I'm gonna make it a little bit more than a little bit. Like, okay. Whatever happens after, my life is like the course of my life will forever be changed. But so it says, I went like silent for a couple months. So I had a rough there. Like I had back Hulanda in front of warmth, the Aruba, a community until back until I had to flee until I was able to social media. So I just stay quiet for a little until February. Because I had to wait for my court. What? Divi, I just visited them. I just walk around, just like linger over there. DV, all inclusive DV to marine until Amsterdam Manor.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Stop.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

So I was like, okay, let me do it. Like ma being back specifically. But saying art exhibition Aruba na Hulanda, na Rotterdam. And to Or maybe back, okay, let's get this nonsense over with. Like, let me just Let me just go to court. I was honest, I was like, yeah, I'll do it again if push comes to shove. Like me and me to an activist, like me to land offender, meet scientists. Like, let me practice my stuff. Let me practice what I learned how to do. But buy me to debe me back and to boto money, you're gonna incarcerate me, you're gonna do all these things. Like, but the bay after me no money to pay y'all anyway, so exactly. So after the court case, community work. But I already do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

I already do that. So I was like, sure.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

I was like, okay, for doing this, say no more for that.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Let me help out at the food bank. And I was like, alright, bookekumina tumma. I was like, I see people from my neighborhood being in the food bank, hey what's up? You get extra rights because I like you. So it was like that. I don't mind doing that. Like I'm already doing that. I've been doing that. Until yeah, so I'm back. I am back with a vengeance. Like I have a personal vendera now. So priority national you make in my case a national priority. It's written on paper. Black and white. It's written on paper, black and white. I got all the paper on the meetamone. Oh. So everything else in Aruba, corruption, pedophilia, abuse, all these other things, fraud aren't a priority. But me with the biggest threat.

SPEAKER_08 42:39

We need this now.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Shit flooding, mind you. So see, this place, okay now y'all got me pissed off because you have to get the money, you know, mental state, but no ascuchami, but ignorami, and to me, okay, I'm gonna go in your face about it. So leading up to just like, okay, Bintibdiquatra, like was technically a protest when it started. So I'm just practicing ancestral protests. I was like, I learned it from y'all.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 43:25

Because I don't know what's going on, what's going on here.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

You think you think decolonizing island was not violent and filled with protests. He's not understanding the language. I'm sorry, yeah. I'm just messing with I was like, okay, I I rallied up a group of people, and I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Wait, sorry. Before you continue on, because I think this is a very interesting part to touch base with because I think a lot of people don't know, I'm myself included, that just Ocho Dimart was. Like it actually started off as hey, this is this is that fight.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

I mean, we hear it in songs and stuff like that, but now that you're saying it, like okay, I can see that just by the archives on top of pictures and old videos manifesting for like freedom and autonomy from our colonizer because a lot of inhumane stuff was happening to us, and why are we still not free? And I'm just gonna practice what I what I've seen people do and protest. Because it's like a background in community community mobilization in Greenpeace. So I was like, okay, let me just gather my folks, connect the people, people could radical, people could believe in like change. And so what we did, Plaza de Tika, um I'm not sure if you know about this, but we interrupted it during Evelyn's speech.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I feel like I remember this.

Airbnbs, Cruise Impact, And Waste

SPEAKER_00 45:06

I don't remember this is why you don't, because they censored it. That part na unanosa interrupt a live stream. What they did is like they panned the camera away. They panned the camera away, but so Evelyn ta para in nan, kusung like wearchi, must have no hotels, protect what's ours, protect what's sacred, triko nanki, and you didn't know about this. I didn't know about photos. We got censored. We got censored, like bad. And okay, we're gonna look at the live stream, like the actual live stream. Cut it out and to pune scenic pictures diaruba, and the me the money, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_08 45:50

And she just kept talking the whole time while you're standing.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

She stopped for a moment just to like glance at the end. And she's like, she continues. Anyways, um she's like, I know, get them. But this police money was uh a security guard, not a being until obviously they honed in on me and so there's this one shot, this is one picture of like me hugging the cop so he doesn't go for the other people. So I was just like hugging him. I was like, I'm hugging the police until I was a little bit more. So it was like that. Um basically not censored us until it was it was still important, but so we had to show our leaders during a very special day. So reminding them like you are talking the speech you are saying, we are good. We are great.

SPEAKER_08 46:48

We are that's the the hand deser thing. I can't stand that.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I can't, I I can't I can't stand the toxic positivity or paint a ruba as like we are okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

One big happy island. We are good.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

We don't we don't even know, gaslighting us, money and to bota waking the protestana money, it's not paradise when locals cannot even afford to live here. It's like what are you saying, sis? And to delanti ture otro political, fine. That was just what you did. And I was like, alright, y'all censored us. And we're gonna go to the house, press release, me, Mr. Ski, a press release, and we used a sacca. So we knew this was gonna happen. We had a photographer in our team taking videos and pictures about the entire protest. So we we knew that they were gonna censor us. But they playing chess. No, they playing checkers, I'm playing chess. Like I'm two steps ahead of you. So what's next? And myth, alright, I'm still on the island. I'm a being black back. Like it's officially an official three years back in the east to be burned. So myth, okay. And the Swiss, uh, it was King's Day. King's Day, I'm not gonna celebrate a colonizer. Like what? So I'm okay. This is a very important day, time. We're celebrating the king, but the royalties is not going to the public. Same thing. They had a protocol, and I think they saw us coming this time. But most probably. For like five barricades, but extra security. There's nothing we will mean a park, and to nos parking lot, ready and waiting, pakuno sports. It's in our law. We could do it. It's my right. I could do it.

SPEAKER_06 49:16

It's in the law.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

See, you have the right to freedom of speech.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

So you have the right to freedom of speech and what else?

Coral Collapse And Public Health

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Protest. You can manifest. Um, okay, so articulous. Do your own research. It's you can protest rights and laws, so please stand up. So a group of we have like, hold on. Oh my god. We took a picture because this time I mean, I mean, that's it. So that's we did the exact same thing and we we protested, and I was like, Okay, but censor us, but cut off it live stream, so it was like right after my gathered into me. Okay, a bunch of rich, wealthy, powerful folks standing together. Let's target them. Nah, home walk away, man. What? You're doing it again. Like, you want me to put it in your face even more. And I hung up, I can't buy it. Are you kidding me? Police there's a there's a video of this cop like dragging me. Like, okay, we like spin me around, we're gonna stop that. That's crazy. So at one point I was on the floor until a police trying to stop me, and I was just like sliding on my butt until I'm not a threat. I'm not a threat, but you think I'm a threat. These people are absolutely insane. Like, there was like a smear, like a multiple smear campaigns done against me. And you're making this personal. Put that same effort and that same attention on the actual fucking issue. The love of your island. Like, please, uh I'm not a threat.

SPEAKER_08 51:22

I'm not, I'm me not a bycalizing things that people aren't looking at or they're ignoring.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

They're not ready for it.

SPEAKER_08 51:30

I know, but you know what I mean? It's like it's you're shedding a light on something that they don't want to talk about. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

And this is why I said in one of the past episodes that we did, I was like, I remember at the end of the year, everybody gives out like their influencers of the year. And I was like, listen, I'm sorry, shout out to all the influencers that won and all this good stuff. But if we're gonna give influencer of the year to somebody, it needs to be fucking Niger. Because you were the only person that actually this, if this is not what you call influence, where you had we did the elections, so we know that this was legit a main topic. It was legit. I remember sitting with Dangi, and Sam's first question was like, hey, this whole topic. I think we even did an episode with Dangue before we did the politicians.

SPEAKER_08 52:17

And we just had to talk about like the first politician we brought on.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Um more hotels.

SPEAKER_08 52:23

That's the reason why you brought him on.

SPEAKER_02 52:24

That's why we brought him on. If that to me is not influence, then I don't know what is.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

See, man, it pensami influenced money. Oh, you have more followers. Oh, you're doing that. Wealthy people are like, their ancestors are like a leech off of Aruba, which like extracted Kuturikoni. I can list names, Kutrikone, the Viernang, whatever. Like, we know why you're rich. Gold. Anyways, a different topic. But after that, like, bring the attention forward. And I was like, okay, and I'm not gonna do it climate change. Um, it was like it was called Caribbean Climate Justice. No, it was the Caribbean climate camp. It was in St. Martin. And I was like, share like ideas and thoughts on the idea. Oh my god, like other people handling this much better compared to Aruba and I'm not gonna be able to do a boost of motivation. Yeah, these are these are my people. Like that Caribbean people standing up for climate justice and like land loss and the hotel and tourism industry that's unsustainable as fuck. And so I had some internal motivation now to keep it going because now I have other people outside in my region voting for me. And I was like, okay, I don't feel alone. I don't feel like alone anymore. But so Timbya activism Aruba, you get singled out, you get censored, silent, everybody that stands with you, we know none of their names, respectfully.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

We know nobody's name, all we know is Nigel.

Space, Traffic, And Local Access

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Yeah. So they say, and I mean the money because I took it for the team. Like, midamoney, all right. If I have to put my stupid face everywhere, but he didn't get the m message across, fine, let me do it. Like, see, but make sure you after you finish attacking me, focus on the damn issue.

SPEAKER_08 54:47

So you've been finding a lot about the previous government. Like you have any issues with the current one. Oh, we can get to that. We can get to that. Because who will be the numb? Let's we can get to that. Okay, let's talk about the obviously. Like, there is there is you've had your issues with past past government. So all governments. I know, but like what's what's just what's your situation right now with this one? Because that's I mean we've been talking for a while, but there's not touch a topic you've been talking about a lot, which is the masterism. Maybe you have an idea of how to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

I want to know what yours is. See, this occurring government, like it's been a pain in the ass trying to talk to them. Like, not avoid me.

SPEAKER_08 55:31

Who are you trying to get in touch with?

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Uh two big ones, uh Mike and Wendrik, but say take me area of expertise. Yeah. So it's like Mike thing, which he's very much neglecting. Like, sure, reforestation. Yay, okay, but deforesting full plotel no bo.

SPEAKER_08 55:50

Like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Um when I ask questions, it's fine.

SPEAKER_08 55:56

I'm not stupid. I'm just like, I'm just maybe people don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

That's okay. Go check their now.

SPEAKER_08 56:07

Yeah, Iber Mani Iber, uh, Iber Star?

unknown 56:09

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Patrasi.

SPEAKER_08 56:10

Yeah. I mean, we'd known that we're gonna build one back there and also.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

They're starting.

SPEAKER_08 56:16

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Oh, seriously, this mic, or you can see it.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

They already have it.

SPEAKER_08 56:35

From what I understand, yeah. It's just they're now building.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Hey, we let's fix our home first, and then maybe we could talk to the case.

SPEAKER_08 56:52

That like, hey, we want to he that he spoke to the GMs.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Shout out to Tisa, talk to me.

SPEAKER_08 56:56

Um apparently that that they spoke to the GMs in order to let's halt the well he's trying to he's trying to talk to the GMs, but the GMs can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

So it's the the owners. Sneaky, sneaky people still building because I heard this. No, I'm doing my job, like governments, but tanto luna, tanto luna, ando poor thing, don't do passing. Like Thursday, we sit down together and I was like, let me speak my shit. Like, I've been I've been showing you certain things happening around the island. I've been showing you mass tourism. What was his response? He was very receptive. He was very receptive, but I mean deer in headlights, like Nigel. Okay, compose yourself. Hey, come on, brother. Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me. Like, when's the meeting?

SPEAKER_03 58:04

It's give me a date and time.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

First time, and I'm not gonna be able to cancel 10 minutes before.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Shit, damn.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

So you could imagine the building frustration unto me to be a chance. I already gave them a warning shot. I already gave them a warning shot when they specifically, and I told them this to his face, but so me to whoopi confirmational. So, Orange Economy. And he was there and he was like talking about like tourism and how tourism is good, uh everything's perfect. Okay. How do I pull it out? I was like, how do I a gun?

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Whoa. Bitch, I will fuck you up. Like, I'm gonna beat your mother's club right here.

Dirty Island Problem And Accountability

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Right here. No, after this in the parking lot. Yeah. Pull up. So little do you know, like I'm again, me to hope he's strategic with how I move, with how I do things and the meeting. Look at the seats. Let me sit right there, the cameras behind me. And I was like, don't play with me because I mean the act. No, well, yes. So it was like, if you if you project something in the back, it was like I was just like in the camera, like the camera's behind me. So I was like, like this. And it was just like in the back until button, at the end of the day, yes, I'm an activist, but first and foremost, me too creative. I will find creative ways to do activism.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

I'm not mad.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

I'm a creative, so and now I gave him a warning shot. Time is taking. So previous, I was consistent. This one, I'm giving them a chance to breathe and fix this shit. The time is taking. How do you think they can change it? Change what? Because there's a lot of things to change.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:31

Specifically, mass tourism.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Mass tourism, well, um yeah, a cap. You just gotta put a cap in it. Like me saw kita ung transition, and it's not gonna be like a good thing. Oh, my money, my things, yeah. But fix it smoothly, like at jobs now, make sure they can still get their return on investment, put a cap in it daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. Like, under the same breath, connecting more airlines to Aruba. It don't add up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

So are they connecting more, or are they saying like, okay, now that you're coming, you don't have to really come anymore? Or are there like, okay, no, like everybody they just yeggab me?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:22

So like the air airlines, is it more like okay, nah, like, well, we used to had four Delta flights. Now we're doing two, so we have space so we can bring our Brazil and Argentina one as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

You can do that. See, Money, what do you versify? Well, look how they're doing episode our beaches are still cramped up.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Okay, so Tisa also gives, I don't know, did you watch the episode from last time?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:43

Okay, so she also did give like a breakdown on so Atta Ata Ata was doing this thing on let's get people that less people to come that are gonna spend more. So this is what Tisa like. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. So Tisa was like, okay, so the hotels are actually doing that. The hotels are now they're not in full occupancy, but they have less people coming, but they bumped up the room prices. That's a good thing. So now people less people are coming and but they're spending more versus vacation rentals that are now saying bring in the people, people, it's like a lot of people sharing one one house and they're only paying that amount for that one house, and then they're done.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Off mayoria the tourism dollars don't even stay in Aruba.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

But then, so then is the mass tourism coming from the hotels or is the so is the like the no more hotels thing, is that like a done thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

Well, not really because we still have no more hotels. We still get them more and they're in the pipeline, like yeah, they're underway. See, and the no more hotels, like it's very much nuanced, Tambi.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

How do you block off how do they block off the mass tourism if the hotels are doing it the proper way? We the regulations for the Airbnbs is probably what we have to fix.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

And that's the cruise ships. That is also like one diap or other buttons, dump them all in one area and they don't even support the local economy because they gotta play all these like stores made in China t-shirts. What? None of them is locally produced, so like cruise ships.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:57

Some of the cruises don't really spend money.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:59

They just go on, they do one little tour, stand on the beach, get back on the bus, and then they go back. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

I mean, I remember being on a cruise myself, and how was that? I mean, you pay all that money to be on a cruise. I at this point when you stop at an island, it's like, hey, what's good? You might buy a little souvenir.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:12

Like one little fridge magnet, like three cocktails. Let's keep it playing.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:15

You because you're also on a time limit, you're not saying like, oh, let me venture off too far from the island. Nah, I'm staying right around here because like two o'clock is two o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

So knowing this, why would we still have more cruise ships?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

That makes total sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

So it money, but uh reduced that. And we're gonna use it. We have like a spatial awareness. As islanders, we have a spatial awareness of our own, like, cramped up, yeah, that's good. Where's our space? Where's we don't have to fight for our spaces on our own island. That's true. And to tame, but we're not gonna be able to say social parts. Which is a whole different heavy conversation, so I've always said that the Wativas Boulevard, every time it reaches aroundabout, it should have been a bridge.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:27

Like when it grinds, it goes over, and that's trying to keep us moving. And if you want to, you can just have a third lane where you want to make a left, you get off the Wativaz Boulevard.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

I'm telling you, we need to radicalize him. Uh-huh. But no, I think it's ecological consequences time.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:48

Break that down.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

Yeah, I'm just trying to eat and to touching me, and to money. So sunblock was the point of the fucking so there's a lot of like environmental implications. I'm just mentioning telestrapi, but I think different other places and our coral reefs. Coral reefs, 90% of our marine biodiversity is dead.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:24

I was gonna say, what coral reefs are you talking about? It's collapsing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

Of the collapse 90%, based on Aruba Conservation Foundation's data. 90%. And we don't treat it as a crisis. And the corals to our natural defense mechanisms. Hurricanes and our hurricanes and all that. And like heating tambe and help with climate mitigation. Our waters are becoming hotter. Fishes are dying. Fish dies, that means fishermen can't practice their ancestral practices. They always fished. They can't pass that down. They can't get their economies. So it's like affecting, it trickles down.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:09

And now they have to go further out to get fish, and then now we have all of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Yeah, you don't want that. So there's like a lot of implications. But then could just map out the system of what's gonna happen if something happens. So, we have to get a touristic activity with mass tourism, I won't see mass UTVs to be able to do it. Give your best shot, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:37

And let's let's be clear on that. I feel like people don't understand what you're saying when you say it. Because it's not like you you you you're you've been promoting like, oh, let's cancel all UTV tours and let's stop all of this.

Sacred Sites And Heritage Loss

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Transition, but UTV job and to ng permit. And uh, same set of skills, same set of like knowledge, and to personality, but greener job. Like, you can't you can't keep degrading our land like this.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:25

Yeah, but people just get used to things.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:28

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:29

It's like sometimes people like listen, I got 15, 20 UTVs, I'm making X amount per month. Why I got my kids to feed? Why am I gonna change and start over and do a whole different thing? But that's that I get that side. I'm doing this, like, all right, Samil, you've had your fun. Oh, we button I'm like, no, man, I'm gonna keep doing cameras.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:53

The problem I think with that is And I'm not gonna stop because I like doing this. Yeah, no, I don't think, and that that is the problem that we have on this island in general, and I don't think it's just with UTVs. It's anything that somebody is successful in, people always tend to mask go and do it. So everybody now wants to be like, oh, I I want UTVs. I want a pizza that bread.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

And the Airbnb, like I mean, like I mean habit both.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

And now you have the masks with everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:23

At least it's locally owned. So for the ones that are sure, but say foreigners or not being a money. Oh, locals are doing it, we could do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:35

You know what I recently heard that I don't know if I should have asked, I wish I knew this, but when we talked to Tisa last week, is there maybe because RV pay is expired or expiring, and they're putting some new rules, and apparently, like, you know, some of I'm just that's something I found out last night.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

I don't know if it's true or not.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:58

Whoa, something about maybe it's again storage, but what about me that I'm building my house and I want to have a pool in my backyard? I gotta pay more.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

I work hard and I save money. Absolutely, absolutely, but locals and foreigners. But create that division of be like, okay, you want a piece of your pie. You want to like also live good. Anto bot foreigners, alright. We're doing a little too much. Like, it's a little, and they're mostly wealthy, rich individuals.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:50

Okay, yeah, I got a house in Aruba.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

All right. Tax the super rich. Just tax them. Tax the super rich.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:59

I mean, everybody needs to be taxed at the end of the day. That's how I feel. I think it just needs to be levels with the taxing, but I feel like everybody needs to be taxed. Like, I'm that's the whole point of an economy, and I feel like the tax m taxpayers' money is it should be visible to where that is going. Do you see where it's going though? No, and that's what I'm saying. I think our entire system just needs a whole fucking reboot with everything because nothing makes sense, and you can't say, oh, we're well, we're gonna work on mass tourism. We clearly just saw how the conversation on mass tourism led to a whole different conversation. Everything is connected and everything is based off of structure. If we don't fix our fucking structure, we're gonna be complaining about the next thing, and some other activist is gonna pop up and come and start starting about some other things that is there's social issues, there's the every single thing is connected.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

And the hope here is affecting siloed, like this is just this, UTV is just this, uh Speedboats is just this, uh Airbnb is it's like no, they're all interwoven, interconnected, and I feel like people are gonna they're gonna realize it when it's too late.

Spirituality As A Tool For Action

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

When people start when they discover another gem like Aruba, or that's when I feel like it's going to hit people when they understand that oh shit, Aruba has absolutely nothing else to offer. Like there's the water is hot, it's just murky and duty, it's nasty. And then you're gonna see all of those tours that okay, well, it's locally owned. Okay, but for who? Because the locals aren't doing it and the tourists are not coming anymore. Now, what where are we going now?

SPEAKER_08 1:12:45

There's very discussion now, like some Facebook groups, like hey, Aruba or Curaçao. I think identity, nature, I've I've spoken to a I was shooting a video at Madame Jeanette, but just like a been here for a long time. And I was talking to a lady, she's been coming to Aruba and going to Madame Jeanette every year on the year she it opened, like in 1991 or something. Yeah. And because we I made content for them, and I was in doing interviews with people who are becoming to Madame Jeanette for a long time. So it's like it's a quick question. Like, what's one what's a what's one thing uh that you realize coming up since 1991 until now? It's like it's too many fucking movies. And this lady is like 80 something years old.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:33

And I mean I mean this with all like gentle. Like always in that grind, like trahan, says, like you don't see outside of that. So it's so funny for the system.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:55

I just talked about that yesterday with my cousins. I was like, because I've been building my house for two years, and I'm like, holy fuck, those I didn't mean the home like gone like in a blink, and that's all I could have focused on for two years.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

You add on that time to going like this, but also the buildings are going up like this. The the people coming in are going are going up like that. And to botamani, we have we keep forgetting we are an island, we're not a city. We have towns, we have districts, villages. We are not a city. So uh Miami money, what? There's no like but a cana di Palm Beach and the Butumani walk around, and is this Aruba? Is this the neighborhood that I grew up in?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:48

Where are the locals? We we legit just had um my it was my first birthday. Shout out to Shinam. It was her birthday on Sunday yesterday, and while we were there, we we were walking with her mom and we're going to um Pelican. And I remember the mom was walking around. She was like, I have like siglos. And she was like, Flabbergasted. First of all, if you come here with a car, where the fuck do you park? Like every freaking parking space is like covered up. It's like this with somebody else. I think Batista even did that. But and she was like so flabbergasted, and I was like, Well, honestly, this is not built for us. This is this is not for locals.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:29

Don't put the parking lots, we're not America, don't bring too many cars in. We're not Dubai, don't do none of that.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:35

I saw already somewhere. I think we need to go out the order, Sheng Mil Nimmer Plat. Like it's a hundred thousand Number Platform. Where do we fit them? Like this is why I love what I do because I can just move around however I want. That's and I I strategically leave my house. Like, I know at 8 a.m. There's no way I'm gonna cross uh the um gas station, that one I wait like either I'm gonna go at like 6 30 or I'm gonna go at 9 a.m. But between 7 and 8 30, forget about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:11

And this is school vacation.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

And I just wish like most leaders put just be said, hey, we fucked up. Just be real. Don't be like, please, just be like, you know what? Because it's governing right now, they soon give out so many permits for so many things. And they're getting they have to deal with their consequences. So money, but it's a good thing. So I wanna be a very good thing to be nang. So it's like I wish they could just be like, yo, back in the day we were just dumb. We fucked up. We we didn't we didn't have a future vision for Aruba. We didn't think about the youth, we didn't but think about the nature, and now we are thinking about it. We fucked up. We're gonna try to change it and let's do it with radical changes. Take it so slow.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:07

Like everybody wants to wash their hands.

Decolonial Lens And Repeating Cycles

SPEAKER_00 1:17:09

Like, please, it's it's not a us versus them problem, it's a we. Collectively, no sturdy is struggling, but someone be so, it's a lot of people. This place, why it's stink every corner? Why the beach is dirty?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:24

Like, can we talk about how dirty this island is? And I feel like people don't like it. I saw the video from the Argentinian lady that the tourist, or of I don't know where or where she was from, I think New York. And she was saying how dirty the island was, and people were going crazy in the comments like, no, bungai back onto okay, mentioned legitimate. Like just legit ride on the road and legit look to the side. It is so fucking dirty. Like people just be having like washing machines randomly on the side of the road, and tires, and like trailer stuff, and empty bottles. It's like any and everything you could just legit expect to see on the side of the road.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:13

Okay, it's not a good thing. We just lost control of everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:24

But I feel like in this part as well, we have to also take accountability. If we're if we're playing the accountability game, tourists aren't leaving this trash on the side of the roads and all this good stuff. No. This is us. Like, we are nasty, dirty ass motherfucking people. Like, we need to stop this. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

No, but wow, okay. So there's like the local side, yes. There's a lot of hot spots, hot spots, dirty spots, raw sewage to kill a drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:11

Again, I don't think it's just the hotels because we have vacation rentals and all that. And they're all flushing.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

But when I say hotels, I mean hotels can mean. I'm just saying it's so people can understand because if you're not.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:25

Umbrella. Vacation rentals, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:28

Whatever you want to call it. So it's solid waste, and there's also the liquid waste. And none of them we know how to manage properly. But so wak parkita boss, that is just a disaster. A lot of life there. And I think a lot of mangroves living like that. It's a nursery for a lot of fish, and we have to make a giant waste plant area. That you will take generations to fix that. And to right across the street. It's like we're we're still not more and more, it's not sustainable. But I degrade.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

How infested that water is over there. Like don't go in it. Do not go in it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

Where the the the the I mean it's batteries, it's cars, it's tires, it's all these things. But it's radioactive things, heavy metals.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:29

So then imagine if this thing is not dripping into the water, and then that same water is what WEP is filtering and cleaning and all this good stuff for us. And then we're we're now consuming all of this shit. See, so and then we wanna why we wanna wonder why people have so many people popping up with cancer and all these things.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:45

Is there nobody that that they like research, like go test the water and do a was that publicly posted about it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:52

Anybody? So there were a couple reports that have been done before, but the government didn't want to release it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:00

I think what's his name was talking about it though, um Ursul.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

Uh-huh. So he talks about it. So there was there was a study made. Like, I forgot, I forgot the number, but a certain percentage of people will get sick if they swim in this area. And that's like scientific data. And government, oh, that can't be released. I'm thinking about like every time like Torah wants to go to the beach, let's go to the beach.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:32

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:32

Uh things to avoid I I Bonota wamina basiruti, bonota wa basir, basiruti number in Jandi Palm Beach, full strip. Because the sand is just gunky. Yeah, it's nasty. Hadikurari, nang tour a waves, nan pusha tour e gunk tamis, in hadikurari, na fisherman's hut of Sarakita Beach. Um I call it the indigenous name. Hadikurari, andang etasushi, by na eagle, raw raw sewage, bushiri, raw sewage. Um, you swim there. No, no, are you crazy?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:08

I'm from Pariva, baby. I don't swim in beaches, Papa with no shade, even though Parik's bit of it.

SPEAKER_08 1:22:15

Isn't that bad?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:17

It's not as bad as y'all is shit water.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:20

Hey, hey, I mean.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

Give me the rusty. I want to fucking shit water on me. The fuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:28

But say, man, I'm not sure. Either like a waste issue, a runoff, um, sea level is rising. People don't see it. I've been monitoring it for years. And to put it, yo, we're not treating climate change like seriously. It's not gonna be there. It's not gonna be there. And I'm telling and I'm telling a lot of people, and I've been trying to tell politicians like, hey, um, step up your game, nota by existed must and binti eye.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:11

Most of them are gonna be dead in binti ay anyway. So that I don't think they that's why they don't care. No shade, guys.

A Message To Locals And Visitors

SPEAKER_00 1:23:22

You don't want to go there. Overcrowded. It's just like peaceful. Peaceful. It's uh it's an ancestral heritage site. It's not bury our ancestors. And the butabiya party boats, museum. Yo, what are we doing? Of the kids.

SPEAKER_08 1:23:48

I mean, I don't know much about this, so it could be like lack of knowledge. It's 1000%. Like, people don't care because if they don't know, they don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

Exactly. And it's not in school. I mean, it's great that we have a museum, but this museum is not even part of like our field trip for schools, like a mandatory field trip or something like that. That you know, like you'll be like, oh, okay, well, exactly. Or they come to the schools. None of this information is given, and you have to really want it. But then again, the busy life that we have to live here in order to maintain that go, go, go, go, go to be able to survive on this island. See, who has fucking my free time? Do you think the one time I actually have some free time, I'm gonna be like, oh let me go to the museum.

Closing Reflections And Stickers

SPEAKER_00 1:24:31

Oh yeah, some shit. Absolutely not. If you really don't for it, like living thing. Aruba is living. Like, she is our mother, she's our sister, she's our daughter, she's our best friend, like she's my partner, but then it's a living wake. But then colonialism happened and then just obstructed how we view our island. We just view it as extraction, and cycle spots around our hands, we can respect it. This is our island, like that's our baby, like and cyber baby beach, Colorado. And we've got an archaeological heritage site, Sierra Colorado could overlook Baby Beach. That's a baby, that's a cove. It's prayer and many exploit, and respect. By the way, like tools, like actual tools of like of when they take out the conch, the conch shells, and make tools out of it and leave it there, and they're still there to this day. And right there, it's like ouch. Not only is there like most tangible heritage disappearing, like it's disappearing right before our very own eyes, and taking it seriously. We're just prostituting her.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:39

Like, you know what I think, I think part of it could be as well, or is a lot of our people don't travel. Some of our people don't even have a passport. And I remember when when we went to like Bonaire, I said this during our podcast, and I was like, Litchen, I'm not even gonna lie to you. I felt like from in the plane, I was like, some type of energy just came over you, and it was just like like this level of calmness that Bonaire just brings to you. And our stay there was spectacular. Everybody was like, Oh, Bonaire is boring, and it's this and it's that. And I was like, This is luxury.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:15

We were there for like a week? I didn't want to say all different people. We weren't sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:20

We weren't like, also mental health I thought this like Durante. It was it felt like we were there for like.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:27

Look, I'm thinking chicken skin right now from legit, legit. Yeah, now that you're now that you're saying that Aruba has all these areas and these areas are meant for certain things. I can understand why now in Bonaire, when we did interviews with certain people, and they're like, No, this place is very sacred. We don't want to touch it. Rincon is barrio. We don't want to touch it. In this thing, this area, all these trees, they need to stay there. See, do not touch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:52

See, and to say no aroba but sacredness we lost it. We lost it, so we sold it, we sold out. We need money. Bitches, no backbone whatsoever. So mm money, do protest, I'm I'm protecting what's sacred. Like, it happened before, like way before. Um 24. Okay we are gonna treat this. We were the first person, like people there. And what we did is like we felt baby beach like suffering. And so let's say that's what we have to do. We're sorry for what our people have done. We're sorry for what's happening to our island. We we are still here, like the protectors, the people that nurture you. We're still here, we're still practicing what we've always been doing in this area, and it's to take care of you. And later on, like, protest, we have beach cleanup, we saw it specifically. And ask us about this. And we make people curious, it was it was just a beach gathering, protest, but we weren't loud. The way it always used to be. So dance, music, reggae, Caribbean vibes and feel some type of way, and hey, we want a spot, like, wait, what? And we're moving. No, they be like that. No, we're not gonna move. We're we're here specifically for this reason. Then go elsewhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:12

No shit, but they be bold.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

Because I be at the beach sometimes and they're like, Can you like turn the music down? I'm like, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:19

No, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:20

Like, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:21

It's crazy. I'm not even, I'm not, I'm not, I can't do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:23

That's why I've ever got to the beat. I just go with my headphones, just sit in my chair.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:27

Both I'm a fucking local. This is what we normally do.

SPEAKER_08 1:30:30

I go everywhere's music. You travel with music.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:33

It's gonna control the whole Airbnb. You think music? Music is alive. Exactly. But it's space to awareness. Like, they don't understand that like we talk give me space. But the joint, actually, not no, we want our own spot. And to nosam, and to echo dispute until I posted all things Aruba. Little do they know full ceremony there for the beach, protecting it, making it clean for your ass to sit there. And so this again, we're targeting tourists. That's not the that's not the issue. We're targeting the system, not the tourists. Like, please put it in your head. But all things are hopefully locals are aggressive in a room, I'm gonna go. And then I show up and spin the story in a way. And I'm gonna say, Oh, fuck sake. Like, you're supposed to be on like on the local side, like listen to us when we're telling you what we're telling you. And this place, calling us aggressive, violent, and like all these words, and you ain't even speak to us. And we just did a whole like blessing on offering na baby beach.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:58

I think a lot of people are not spiritual. And that's the problem. Like these these things can easily look cuckoo. Crazy, like easily you can look cuckoo by speaking stuff like this. But if people don't are not tapped into like spirituality, if people and a lot of people don't have hope, that's why they live the lives that they have here on this island, being very honest.

SPEAKER_08 1:32:20

That's also what Mike when Mike Ayman came on the show, he said, cool, a ruba perda so like everybody's like this community, yeah. Everybody's like, I'm not even missed, figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:35

People don't even know how to pray. Like the amount of people that I've I talk to, and so many people are like legit, legit going through like heavy depression, and like people are like going through it. And I'm having conversations. I'm like, do you pray?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

And they're like, Do you tap into your spiritual energy? So they come in. They don't pray, they don't do it. We're losing the connection because we keep distancing ourselves through these big buildings, through money, what makes us luxury, connection with the water. What spirituality is a very important thing. The most activism. I can tell you multiple instances spirituality came in full strong, full force. But 18th of March was a very good thing. This idea arrived for my court of March every single day, unsoku kuping me around. Like, show appearing out of thin air, hung there and actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

Tap into that, tap into that.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:49

Radicalize, radicalize yourself. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:53

That is the lighting of this circle of this um episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:00

And people started noticing that. I just want a whole damn family. Bro, like what? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

Oh shit. It's a whole owl family.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

What's up?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:15

Who's the motherfucker?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:18

Pese omen dung shoku to money connection with with the death with spirit realm. It could be like death of like not someone, but of death of a system or something, or like letting go of something. Like one, two, three, four, five things. I got five AB story. They're the oldest living beings without a live in the land. Yeah. So say to other part of the spirituality, like when I started doing the protest, the St. Rich na Basiruti, na Palm Beach, na Toran, pahinusa. Sorry? No, they were about to, but then my skunt arrived.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:01

Like, shine a light on it, so I waku na to karta nature mata nang, and to puna epalapapa na umpa ungading, and to kuban na mana elbow deep, until I was there every single day up until the opening, because I had to like see the patterns of what they're doing, what they're taking away from us, the land.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:20

And this was the mangroves?

SPEAKER_08 1:35:22

No, it's the trees by the to the toran by the.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:25

Because I know they said like mangroves aren't allowed, you're not allowed to cut them, no?

SPEAKER_00 1:35:29

No, you're not allowed to cut them. But there's no mangroves over there. No, yeah, because they got rid of them. But see, this it's not a good thing. The area don't you feel like just sit there and to just look around and feel aruba. But Aruba is getting stabbed, literally, owned by St. Regis, apparently, which they're doing a lot of illegal nonsense there. But try to raise awareness about this, hey, they're taking hangout spot, and on the very important skill for islanders to learn how to swim. And that specific beach, a lot of people are connected with their roots there. A lot of people practice their heritage there.

SPEAKER_08 1:36:26

I took uh swim lessons there with school.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:28

Oh well, they're not allowed to do it anymore. They're not allowed to do it there anymore. Oh, old people. So, but but take something from what? No, the old people are not allowed to like practice because it's in front of a five-star hotel. Nobody wants to see old people there, right? Like the rich people. Oh wow. So they say fully know. Oh, Nigel was right, like a couple years ago when he started this. I've been warning you. And then you see the spiritual aspect of it. Like, everyone was like riled up, there was cops everywhere. And so something, something told me to just dig. Like, I don't know what it was, but something told me, dig right here. I hit the root, the equihi tree could not cut down. So they're physically hurting our roots, but also spiritually hurting our roots. So they're killing it from the inside. Just like how they're doing with our heritage.

SPEAKER_08 1:37:35

The big tree you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

And now something told me to dig right there unto me to do. Okay. And the maha root, I showed everyone unto everyone to like, how'd you know? I I you just have to listen.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

I rely a lot on my spirituality activism. So I had to go to like a conference, like United Nations Ocean Conference back in June. It's very sad. Oh, that's an island that's suffering because they have no fish of warm waters. But France, because it was held in France. Like the day that I arrived back, the morning of. The morning of, bang bang rea, Venezuela. So it's like we're connecting to our roots from that area. So my buy and nang, and I'm not going to be able to do a big drilling machine. It didn't even it started right in front of me. What is the coincidence that the day that I arrived, the morning of Drilling is starting. She's getting new scars, and I'm there witnessing the new scars. Of course I'm gonna stand up. Of course I'm gonna be like, don't do it. You're it's like you're hurting her. Like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_06 1:39:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:21

I mean, I was gonna say, like, I when you act that way, he ended up like paint with that way very quickly. So like when you explain things, I'm I can I hear you, I understand you. And the pundi is a path of hand, it could not be done. And he was like, damn, this guy is crazy. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

You can easily look at it and it's like, ah, this is the one. This is the first time I've meet the first time.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:43

So, man, in depth, like it's not just you just have to reconnect with the land. Like Aruba ta un tesoro.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:54

And then when sorry, and then when the when the the calichi then start falling at each other, and we're like, I kita pasanto eastland. Oh no, so the pasanto ku Islam.

SPEAKER_08 1:40:07

See, what do you want to say? It's very slightly off topic. I mean, we don't have a lot of time left. Yeah, we gotta wrap this up. Almost two hours you've been talking. Oh shit. Oh, for real? Yeah. Oh my god. We're one more episode, but I don't think that's happening anymore. So, guys, no episode last Tuesday, sorry. But uh um have you ever done like what's ayahuasca? I feel like you've maybe you've done it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:27

No, I'm not spiritually ready for it. And to say, I saw I haven't done it yet because I myself I don't feel like I need that tool yet. Um maybe in the future, but I'm reconnecting looking like buying on a set of spots and to paw builds. Yeah, kiko ekimpami. I pray all the time for the land and with the land.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:13

That's something I might have to add into my prayer. I know I don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:24

Bing ka na demoniku mindia and I'll show you.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:26

Rather than it's down, I'm down to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:31

If you really want to reconnect, so again, all these topics, talking about hotels, mass tourism, like we're in this system where we're stuck on this connection. So just reconnect. This island is a living thing. And to sibu waki a manera, and I can't try to see it that way.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:51

Like, that for some people might sound crazy, but take a step back, if the point it goggles you like, alright, if this was a living thing, now I will react again to what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:05

But even to like, if you have to think about it, like now, this is you with your current life, right? Like right now, you're this busy guy, um, you have no kids, none of these type of things. But just imagine in a few years when you do decide that you want to have children and you want to settle down and you're in your house, what type of island does your kids get to grow up in? Yeah, it's far from what you got to grow up in.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:43

But you can't disconnect from it anymore. But Aruba is is hurting. Aruba is hurting bad, but they could just walk in from a decolonial perspective.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:58

A lot of the times people can't reach me because I'm so disconnected. And I think that is what to value we had Randall van Tricht on, and he was talking about like addiction and stuff like that. He said like one of the two of the biggest addictions is like, I think with drugs and alcohol, I think he said, and social media. And I think that might be a big part of why Aruba is where it is today, is because we socially compare ourselves to so many different things. It's like, oh, okay, well, they got they got fast foods. Let's bring those those chains of fast foods. Oh, they got this, let's do that. Oh, that Dubai just did this thing. This is what they're doing now. See, we should be into this. Oh, this place, they got like yachts uh where you can just park all your yachts in luxury. Oh, we should do that too.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:41

You're a gun at San Nicolas, right? Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:44

But it's like all of these types of things, just like why would you not look at what the island can offer from being an island and offer that uniqueness versus let's do what everything everybody else is doing that makes a lot of money. It's the same thing we're saying with the money, the ATVs and all these type of things and and Airbnbs. Money, everybody wants to jump in.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:10

We need to educate people, we need like to tell people the stories about specific areas. What's the significance? What's the spiritual significance? Why is it important this area for the nature? But think, but this is so cool. I never knew, but we have to do this. So way back in the day, like isla pa different ekuna, extraction, taking colonizers of being aruba for the first time, they took Brazil wood, deforest our entire island.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:57

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:44:57

Yes, companion. We Aruba's my companion. Anto botawakun aabing, like European colonizers, ng awake isla inutiles, na awake pa resource grabbing, land grabbing, exploitation of human, slavery. Like all these things kept repeating in cycles. Nustawak Brazil wood, gold, phosphate, petroleum, noak a woo, is seek locamibira hotel and tourism.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:25

And it's like we're we're still repeating exploit the people, because the people are the ones that get such great service.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:30

And take the land and to gentrify it. A different way. They found they found creative ways now too.

SPEAKER_08 1:45:41

See they're also creators.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:47

Like, and I'm talking to like directly to the people, the leaders, the CEOs, the the ones, all these people. You're supposed to view this from a decolonial lens. When you don't view it from a decolonial lens, you solve the issue because it's a repeated cycle kua pasta in centuries. But CEO Spanish Aruba, ancestral heritage site. What is this, 1499? Like, what? When the Spanish first came, they did the exact same. So it's like you have to dig deep into our roots. And to really walk money, Aruba, uh I'm about to cry even thinking about Aruba. But so it's just like it will be beautiful. Why don't you want to preserve it? Why don't you want to hold on to what's ours? The forest, build, parking lot, traffic, um Busa finding ways out like this.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:58

We gotta we gotta we gotta close out. So let me ask you this real quick. Where do you get your data from?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:04

Hello, from like what data?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:06

Your data in general. Like, so you you always spit so much facts and you're saying these type of things. I know now um the museum is one definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:17

See, um by the museum nan de ruba, it's on the industria, it's a master, but patron chin kuta bar to pasat me, museum archaeological, you just have to speak with elders. Yeah, connected elders. Connected elders. Like connecta, kunang identity, kunang land, traditional. Like I speak a lot with like elders and to me to understand how they view Aruba, and that's also sometimes you just gotta find your data in nature, miss. Bainama and to buy scene to walk around, and to just observe, like people don't do that, people don't be mindful about what's happening around Aruba. Or just observing and listening to the land. Say time data source. Um online, but you just gotta be curious, just gotta be critical, curious, and and and and yeah, but much more in-depth than what we were taught, what we were indoctrinated with. Last one for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:33

Just look into this camera and give everybody a message. This is people who are from the island and people that are coming to the island, people that are might be leaving the island, people that might want to come back. What is your one message for everybody about Aruba?

SPEAKER_00 1:48:51

Please quid Aruba. Like, please take care of Aruba. Aruba is everything to us. Aruba has been everything to us. Aruba will continue to be everything for us. If something happens to Aruba, it's on us. It's we are allowing this. So look at her as a living being. Look at her as something that we need to preserve, conserve, and please, please, please come home, reconnect, reconnect with her because she's calling people to reconnect with her. She doesn't have a voice, but you could still listen to her. We don't speak the same languages, but we could still understand her. The next generation. We don't want short sightedness. Easy short term solutions. We need long term solutions so we can take care of her. Whether it being for hotel and tourism, whether it being for climate justice, ecological crisis, social crisis that we have police take care of her so it's important you know what yeah we need this so no i think i think that that'd be like my message oh wait before i leave wait hold on oh hold on hold on hold on y'all want stickers about a show i was like oh my god what about to happen now which one y'all want which one y'all want there's like no more hotels pick one pick one pick any they're all they're all cute they're all cute read them out show them to the camera but in the meantime oh tourists go home wait here you go I like the turtle no more hotels this is the most iconic one that's the original one is it black yeah oh yeah it's like a dark blue see there's like multiple stickers in there so like okay no I appreciate this I love stickers I like to put stickers on my things can I take one of each yeah go ahead go ahead they're all like with uh it's a just one maybe you want to vandalize too I don't know like this was an interesting conversation see thank you for coming man I mean I mean this is the first time I'm meeting you so like I've only seen you on social media see so it's good to have this show is all about anybody can sit in this chair but aggressive what if I just go like I don't like none of y'all think that is that scary actually aza put it in the beginning clickbait clickbait please please sorry guys gotcha nah but the comments like I don't know what I I was just sitting here and just listening that's all I was doing today and just asking certain questions here and there but I know it's not easy what you're doing but so people people pinta pinta kawa and even jobs wise like it all of that is like must be extremely difficult.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:09

Yeah but you have a job yeah yeah okay multiple I'm pretty sure what you're doing is not in vain and whether whether people want to admit it to or not or whether they like it or not I feel like your name will forever be down in history books. And if you don't see it now let let's let's say again something dating all this but oh everything that you're saying happens and in 15 years and they say holy shit nights was right even if it doesn't he still started a revolution whether you want to admit it or not he started something that it was never a conversation nobody never used to talk about no more hotels nobody never really used to talk about all these different things you brought them to light and you've created a platform now where people look to you to for the unfiltered injustices of the island so you carry a very big purpose that maybe you don't even know that you carry yet and a responsibility but it it is facts and you are part of history you're gonna be one of those people that we're gonna have people are going to learn about in our museums or in our history books or in whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:16

It is I never see it I'm pretty sure you have but that's where you are that's crazy at the end of the Jiswaki the attention will always be na ruba what with whatever we're doing whatever I'm doing I'm just doing for the love of my island because I lost so much getting there.

SPEAKER_08 1:53:36

You really did so this is my this is my offering be like I will not lose anymore we will gain from this we will I mean I eat the fruits of my labor if I if I die tomorrow I'm fine I just know that I stood for something that I believe in and that my island really needs and to see it please like by all means call him please my Instagram is at punky underscore underscore xx punky is my artist name but also my mother's nickname so okay let's get a long ass episode hey we're gonna do one hour because we have another episode two fucking hours oh my gosh it honestly didn't feel like two hours so at all too much guys thanks for watching Nigel thanks for coming thank you and uh guys we'll see you next week peace a yo