No Filter in Paradise
Two friends, one's straight one's Gay, with different backgrounds, interest, upbringing & outlook in life come together to have a Fun & honest conversation and discuss their opinions on different topics... with no filter.
No Filter in Paradise
Aruba’s Tourism Boom Is Starting to Backfire? | Tony Van Veen | EP 259
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Aruba’s tourism industry is one of the island’s biggest success stories — but can there be too much of a good thing?
Tony Van Veen joins us to discuss overtourism, overcrowded beaches, cruise ship traffic, UTV and ATV tours, housing affordability, Airbnb, foreign property buyers, hotel development, safety, and the growing pressure tourism is putting on Aruba’s infrastructure and quality of life.
We also explore what Aruba needs to do if it truly wants to move from tourism “volume to value,” why luxury travelers are looking for space and authenticity, and whether measures such as cruise limits, environmental fees, short-term rental registration, higher transfer taxes, stronger enforcement, and even pausing new hotel permits deserve serious consideration.
It’s a conversation about protecting Aruba’s tourism industry by protecting the island itself — its people, environment, culture, safety, and the qualities that continue to make visitors want to return.
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Subscribe And Opening Tease
SPEAKER_02Quick favor before we get started. If you really enjoy the content, please make sure to hit that subscribe button. We release an episode every single week, and we love to have you for the ride. So enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_01We're at risk here of losing the charm, the vibe, the appeal that it has that drives our economy, which is the hospitality.
SPEAKER_05Two things is an issue on this island. Extremists and control. Every few years, there's some topic that we find, and then we just go hard on that. It's like forget every other thing, let's just go ham on that one topic and just be whatever. Just go in on it. The other part is the control of it all. We're saying, okay, apply these new taxes and add these all these things. Who's controlling it?
SPEAKER_01If you look at our hotel strip and you put it next to Cancun or any of these other big destinations, it's virtually indistinguishable. As a luxury tourist, a visitor, why would you come to a room? If we keep allowing this kind of stuff to happen, we are damaging the product that we are living off of here. Difficult decisions need to be made. There's companies that are responsible about it, and there are, like Jimmy mentioned, there's some rogue elements. Some five years ago, somebody shot at our house.
Meet The Hosts And Guest
SPEAKER_02Welcome back to the ABC Islands Favorite Podcast on the Filter in Paradise, a show about anything and everything, literally everything, between two friends. One is straight and the other super duper black and gay babies. Ooh, with the do-rag. Yeah. So gangster and gay.
SPEAKER_05Jeff, take this camera off of me right now.
SPEAKER_02Jeff is our editor. Like, yo, Jeff, keep actually doing it.
SPEAKER_05No, stop! What is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_02Crop it in.
SPEAKER_05Bitch ass.
SPEAKER_02Actually, rewind it and crop it in.
SPEAKER_05First, though, fuck your bitch.
SPEAKER_02Alright, guys, today we have a special guest. Um, we met him at an event me and Shark went to. If you guys know a few episodes ago, we talked about the Kavika event, which was really, really, really, really good. And there was a speaker who at that before the event, I had no idea who he was. He approached Miyamoto, I remember. I was standing next to the pasticci because Brit's called the not Ritz, sorry, St. Regis. You guys have some really good freaking pasticcies.
SPEAKER_01It was pasticci.
SPEAKER_02Good. I was like, shit, I even got a whole plate, like five, and I went there, Shark. Hey, like, this is all for us to share. You didn't say that. But I did say that. And after you said, but I brought this for you. So people don't know I'm a fat ass. Anyways. So I was sitting next to Pasticci with Moda, and we're talking. I remember you walking, I was like, hey, this is the podcast committee or something like that. And I was like, Yeah, sure, what's up? And then you started talking with us. I had no idea who this guy was. And then and then later on, we started talking more and more. And then come to find that you were saying, I gotta go get Mike Duck. I was like, wait, what? You want you were one of the speakers at the event we were at? And Shark was like, This dude was literally on the fucking flyer. Like, come on. At that point, I didn't recognize it. I was so into the pastitchy, and I was like, it just went over my head. So, guys, today we have Mr. Tony Van Veen. Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Hey, Donkey, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_05I'm excited to be here. Listen, I hope the excitement and the pleasure is definitely on our us. Cause let me just say, from the moment you started speaking, like it was from like I I want to say it was like slide number two. Because I feel like the first one was like with your family. But when you started with slide number two, I just leaned over a little bit like this. Sam just turned over turned to the back and we was like, Yeah, he needs to be on the pod.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I wrote it down like Tony Van Vane on podcast. And then a few slides later, you came to me like, yo, we need to have him on the pot. I grabbed my notes, I'm like, I have him right here too.
SPEAKER_03And then the wife is right next to her.
SPEAKER_02So let's get it in. So before we jump into the topic, which I think is gonna be majority about Aruba and tourism, before we jump into that, who is Tony Van Veen and what is your personal connection to Aruba?
Tony’s Aruba Roots And Journey
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm not meaning. Okay. He represented the interests of the Netherlands Antilles, because back then it was 1960s, Aruba was part of the Netherlands Antilles, at the cabinet of the Queen in Holland. Wow. So you know, just like today we have a Minister Plenipotentiario at Aruba House. Back then, that was my grandfather. Right. And they had Antillen House. Um, and so my mother went with him, she was single, and he was like, Come with me. And so she was a teacher. My mother, my mother taught here for decades. My mother taught thousands of children here. She was at started at Juliana School, and later she was um with different schools. Um and so she was a teacher, she taught in Holland for a few years while my grandfather was there, and she met my father, and they fell in love, and one thing led to another. And so uh my first couple of years I was in Holland and then moved to Aruba. What a at what age do you remember? Five. Five. Age five. So, you know, I went to school here, I went to colegio. Um you know, and and I mean today culturally, I've been in the US for over 40 years. I went in 1983, I graduated colegio, went to Philadelphia to study, and I studied business at the Wharton School, and um, you know, but to me always I felt Rubianomita. You know, I I still have my Dutch passport, though I have two passports now. Yeah, I I didn't get dual until Donald Trump was elected the first time, and they started talking about like um taking green cards away from people, yeah, stuff like that. And I was like, you know what, I better get a passport.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so I have I have dual citizenship now, but I still I still have my uh my Dutch passport.
Turning Music Into A Career
SPEAKER_01And so, you know, I I I when I was in college, I I just loved music. I started playing in bands, and that's dated from before. I was, you know, when I was 14, I was playing saxophone in um Bang Four Doors brass bands in Carnival, 1415. I don't play sax. I actually don't really play anymore. But you know, I was the whitest kid in the brass band. There was Tony right there. Yeah, so um so I you know played in bands in in the US and and recording our own music, putting on concerts, and like that got me through college. Like I I hated studying, I hated doing research papers and all that. Really?
SPEAKER_05I would never believe that.
SPEAKER_02By the way, so explain it to our notes so well.
SPEAKER_01I hated it because like I always loved to learn, I just didn't like the study part. Yeah, right? And so that can relate a lot. So um so music got me through, like when I had exams to practice, to, to, uh, to to study for, like, I would be like, oh, yeah, I just gotta get this done because I know tonight we have band rehearsal, and it'll be good, right? And and so after I graduated, I was like, I want to work in the record business. And no record business isn't in Aruba. Um I had a I went to study on a lago burst. And uh the conditions of a lago burst back in the day were you have to come back after you graduate for two years to work in Aruba.
SPEAKER_05Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was the only condition. You didn't have to pay back, but you have to come back and work for two years in Aruba.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, they don't offer something like that in Aruba anymore, right?
SPEAKER_01Like, hey, buy study, but I I turned out to be the last year that Lago gave the scholarship. Yeah, Lago don't even exist no more. No, I know, but like the end of the year. So that was 83. I went to study. 85 Lago closed down. And, you know, my parents were sweating because they could not afford a US college education. And so one thing led to another. I think the government stepped in and said, listen to Lago, you have to fulfill a bunch of your obligations, including the scholarship. So I ended up getting paid the four years of the scholarship. But because there was no Lago to make me come back to Aruba, I was like, this is my shop. I gotta try to try to do it. I did I, you know, I was really scared and turned out really good, right? I was really lucky.
SPEAKER_02It's good to show like if if there's moments in life where you can take risks, take it, because you never know where you're gonna end up, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And so I so I found I started looking for jobs, and uh I I found a job at this company, Discmakers, uh, that was a small vinyl record pressing plant back in the day, 1987, when I started working. Still got your end in the music a little bit. And and yeah, and and um we, you know, I worked together with the owner in the early years. We really pivoted the company away from kind of low-priced volume record pressing for record labels to selling record packages basically direct to artists. Independent artists were coming up big time. It started exploding the indie music scene in the mid to late 80s. Uh, and so that became our niche. And so we grew that and we migrated through all these technology cycles. I mean, in in my lifetime, I've seen you know, five technology cycles just kind of come and go. It was vinyl, then it was cassettes came and went, then CDs came and went, and then downloads came and went. Yeah, and now it's streaming, right? And the crazy thing is now we're back to vinyls. We're going back to vinyls. Vinyl is the hot thing, it's crazy. Yes, our vinyl business over the last four, three years is up 400%.
SPEAKER_02In case you didn't know, every single Saturday from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m., Shark and I are on the radio, XFM 102.7, talk about different topics, we have fun conversations, and best of all, we do fun games like movie and music trivias. Anything for you guys to win every single Saturday on XFM 102.7. Tune in, we'll see you there. Anyways, back to the show.
Streaming Pay And Vinyl’s Comeback
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_05A lot of I know everything everything old comes back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and a lot of the artists are part of it thinking on that shit. Part part of it is that. So as an artist, I guess we'll take a little detour.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01If you're if you have your music on Spotify, on streaming services, on YouTube, you can lose it. You can't live, you can't live off the off the royal royalties. Right? A Spotify stream pays three tenths of a penny to be an artist. Right? So a hundred streams is three three cents, right? Right? A thousand streams is three dollars, right? A thousand streams you you made three dollars, right? So you need a ton of streams. So what artists do, and and it's even worse with YouTube. YouTube a stream pays seven one hundredths of a penny. Right? And so what uh what happens uh for artists, independent artists in particular, to be able to borrow pay some bills from their music, they need to sell stuff, right? They need to sell merch, uh t-shirts, cds, vinyl records, um, of course, concert tickets, et cetera. So that's how that's how they make money. And um, you know, the vinyl is it's kind of the pendulum swung so far to everything digital, everybody on their small screen. This is kind of the pendulum swinging back, and some subset of music fans are like, you know, the old, the old analog thing is cool, right? You got the big 12-inch by 12 inch like album artwork, right? And it's the whole, you know, it's the whole ritual. You take the record out, you drop it on, you'd you know, you carefully put the put the stylus on the record. It's a whole thing.
SPEAKER_05It's a whole collection, and they're collectibles now. Like a lot of artists they drop like different vinyls, so different um versions of the same vinyl. So the same album, different versions, yeah. Yeah, so they become like collectibles. So you just if you like uh Taylor Swift just dropped like four new vinyls from the same album, just different. You buy all artism as exactly, and then you hang on the collectible, you could play them, you could not play them, keep them in the wrapper, whatever you want to do, that's up to you.
SPEAKER_02You know, things on Spotify tomorrow things like my Antanay Mask.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's another thing, right? You're renting instead of owning the music.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um and so that's that's another reason. But you know, the interesting thing is, and we're really kind of down a rabbit hole here, yeah. The the music fans, they've done research in the US, like half of the vinyl records that are sold are never played. The fans just they people, music fans show their fandom by supporting the artists. And then the artists look when I I've gone to concerts for artists I like, and I bought either a vinyl or a CD, and I never played it. I would go, I'd take off the wrapper, like here, autograph this, take a selfie, yeah, right, and then I'd go home and listen to it on Spotify. Right? Um like a little memory like you have. And I'm never the the autographed ones, I'm never getting rid of, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um That's a cool story. So yeah, so you know, over over the decades basically, because I, you know, I'm like a lifer, I'm like a unicorn here. Like you know, I see it all, you know, but but like I I applied for one job back in 1987, and I never had to look for another job. That's crazy. That's awesome. But we so in 2006, the owner of the business was getting, it was in his upper 60s, and you know, he was like a not an atypical entrepreneur where he was wealthy, but he didn't have a lot of cash. His wealth was the fact that he owned and grown this business, right? And so he was like, you know, I'm getting older, I want to take, as they say, some chips off the table. And he sold the company or a majority share of the company, 70%, to a private equity fund in New York. And um private equity is not really a common thing here, but it's basically what private equity is is they it it's it's a bunch of money managers, basically, that they go to pension funds and wealthy individuals and they raise a fund, and with that fund they go out and buy businesses, and then they hope that those businesses will grow, grow in revenue, grow in profitability, and then typically five to seven years later, they sell the business at a profit. And so uh, you know, I started running the business after we sold, and I I I got a bonus when we sold and I bought a little piece of the business. And, you know, over the decades we acquired CD Baby, which at the time because CDs were were like declining, yeah, and uh everything was going to digital distribution. We had a partnership with a company called CD Baby that started as an online CD store, but eventually migrated into distributing music to iTunes, to Apple. And so we bought that company, sold it a couple more times to private equity, and um eventually it became quite large, and we ended up selling the digital division. And my management team and I ended up buying the physical, the discs, and we had started a small book division at the time, and so we bought the the discs and the books because the buyer of the digital side did not want it. And so that's that's basically for the past that was 2019, so for the past six years I've been running that business, disc business, book business. Um and uh you know occasionally having a good time. This is part of it. This this is a good time, it's part of it. This is a good time, yes.
Growing Up With Aruba Freedom
SPEAKER_02No, so like I I want to talk a little bit about like about your time in Aruba. What was Aruba for you growing up?
SPEAKER_01It was freedom. Um we I I grew up in Bobain. You know where Bobain is? Babain is Panotti Paradero, right at the base of Kristalberg, Ceroplat. I'm like someone that's been living in the States for so long comes in like net the Ceroplat, the Kristalberg.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01And I would, you know, we would hang out with my sister and I, we would play on the rocks back there. Um, and you know, from very young, like we had no phone.
SPEAKER_02No, right?
SPEAKER_01Back in the day, this was you know, 1970s, right? Uh we we had no telephone. Um, and so you know, I would I would go out, I'd make plans with my friends, and would ride, I would ride my bike from Bobain to um, you know, to where my friends are, right? To Morchenstern, my friend Gert van Vliet, who who runs or owned, started a tri-bike up in Santa Cruz, was a good friend of mine. We would ride to the ride to the beach, I would ride uh to to playa and and ride my bike back to back to Bobain. And so it was like, I mean, in my early teens, right? 12, 13, 14. It was immense freedom, you know, and it was the beaches were quiet, you know. There was there was tourism. But man, we were like when when I was in colegio, there was a thing where like every Sunday, like all the colegio kids would like go to the beach at the Aruba Caribbean Hotel, and there would be like a mass of kids just hanging out, you know, chatting out, playing, playing games, flirting, whatever. Um that was what we did. We would just hang out in front of the Caribbean Hotel, walk up and down the strip.
SPEAKER_02For those who don't know, Caribbean Hotel is what today?
SPEAKER_01The Caribbean Hotel today is the Hilton. The Hilton, okay.
SPEAKER_02For those then no, because I definitely didn't.
SPEAKER_01So it was a it was a whole it was a whole different thing, man. You know, today there's you know, there's a lot of traffic congestion.
SPEAKER_05Um I don't like I don't like riding a bike on the road right now because uh nobody don't even even like to be on the road no more.
SPEAKER_02Like I hear you in general during certain times, I'm like, what time is it? Like, oh the owner.
SPEAKER_05Leave it alone.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna wait in one more hour because all the the school traffic, I'll just wait.
SPEAKER_05Like, okay, I won't go for the sali because it's gonna be way less than yeah, no, it gets crazy, but I I I find it so funny because if you think about like back then, it was like you could leave your home and your parents trusted you to leave the home, they have no idea what the fuck you're doing. Where you are. You explore all you didn't know you have to be home before you, what time are you coming home? Be home before it's dark. Yeah, before them lights come on, them street lights come on, you have to be home. That's it. But the trust that our parents gave to us, it was this like so unnatural and unlike so not normal. Like now, this day and age, it's like, hell no, where the fuck are you going?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but you know, I uh look, I I I've kept coming back when I was studying after I started working. I mean, you know, my my wife is a Ruben. Uh you know, I like to say we're the only house in Philadelphia where Papiamento spoke and everything. Um, being bichtafamia, hangout, dia, etc. Yeah, coming di collegio nan taki. Of course, we have friends, we have family. It's like we have community here, you know, and and so um, you know, I've been seeing what's happening with with kind of the overcrowding, and you know, living in Mamak, I I see it very, you know, viscerally. I can, you know, hear the buses, the party buses going by, the Pont Tours buses going by, the UTV is going by. Um, you know, I said, hey man, let me tell you. Driving by like the hotels there, you know, there's a lot of traffic at this point in time. And so, you know, it got me thinking, like, what and and there's a lot of talk right now about over tourism, obviously, right? It's not, it's not me being brilliant, right? I'm just kind of I'm seeing what everybody else is seeing. And you're speaking about it.
SPEAKER_02Some people ask, I see, I see it, but nobody speaks up.
SPEAKER_01So what I what I like to to think that I do is, you know, rather than harp on how did we get here, it almost doesn't matter. Yeah, you know, partido good, partido bad, who did what it almost doesn't matter. You can't change the past. Yeah, but we have a shot at changing the future. Yeah, right. And and so one of the things I I as I kind of think about what what can or what should we do, you know, I I I try to think, you know, maybe my business experience, you know, starting businesses, shutting businesses down, you know, growing businesses. I've hired people, I've laid off people, you know, I've I've I've you've evolved during a market from processing. And I've had to, you know, I've had to keep generating revenue to support all the things that that that we wanted to do as a business. I figured, you know, maybe maybe there's some perspective, some ideas that I can kind of contribute to help kind of steer Aruba or the people who can make stuff happen, you know, kind of have help drive positive change.
SPEAKER_05So let me ask you this. As I I don't want to call you an outsider, but I feel like if it really depends on what who you ask at the different locals, they'll give you a different perspective on what Aruba is looking like right now. So for you that goes and comes, what to you does Aruba look like now? Where are we currently? Because we I know we just said it, but like forget the okay, who because of who we're here now, forget all of that. Your perspective, where do you see us currently right now? What spot is Aruba
Success Story With Overheating Pressure
SPEAKER_05in? From what in in what way do you mean? We're we're jumping into this now. Yeah, yeah. So very much in all formats of if you have to look at Aruba socially, as a business, as all of these different, these different lines. How do you currently see Aruba?
SPEAKER_01Honestly. Yeah, that's what I see. I see Aruba in in many ways as a great success story. Right? The economy has done tremendously well. Okay, we we took a knock on the chin during COVID. But so did everybody else in the whole world. Right? So because people were like, yeah, but you know, tempo di COVID. I'm like, tempo di COVID doesn't matter really because it was such an outlier, right? Um, ever every every government had to bail out its people in some way or another, right? But I see Aruba, I mean what Aruba has done and has built and the economic growth that Aruba has driven, we have a government surplus at this point in time. I mean, it's a tremendous success story. The one thing that's the downside is I feel that the growth has kind of overheated, right? And so we are dealing with pressure right now from too many visitors, too many cars, too many uh residents in a way that have to support the visitors who come here and the housing pressures that that generates. And so I think one of the things that we have to figure out how to do is how do we get to uh I feel like we're a little out of equilibrium, and how do we get to a level of equilibrium where the success can keep happening, but uh at kind of a more managed and manageable pace, so that it's good for Rubens because I feel one of the things that I feel that has happened, and I think I I see it on socials and I hear people talking about it, is you know the best areas and the best things right now are for visitors, right? The beaches, you know, are are getting so crowded, locals don't really go there anymore. A lot of you know, the nice spots for real estate, etc. And um and and you know, uh so much of what we do in Aruba is in service of the visitors, which is you have to do that, right? This is Aruba, the Aruba is a hospitality economy, and so we have to take care of the visitors, but it leaves a segment of the Aruban population feeling kind of we're we're we're not benefiting necessarily in in our way of life, in our lifestyle from all this now economic activity.
SPEAKER_05Respectfully, do you feel like that is that we re we that's who we are to the core, or do you feel like that's who we were made to be, which is just the hospitality thing?
SPEAKER_01Because I I think I think Rubens are are naturally friendly, naturally hospitable. My parents, and I know my in-laws, when we when they would, when I was a kid, they would get visitors, stay over visitors, they would leave their own bedroom, sleep in a smaller bedroom so that the visitors could have the best bedroom in the house. That's that was like ingrained. When you have visitors, you they get the best spot, right? And so I I think Arubans are Arubans are are are naturally just really friendly and really hospitable. And I think it's it's actually amazing that as many uh people who have migrated to Aruba to work in hospitality and to work in the economy, whether they be Latino or Filipino or uh wherever, Haitian, wherever they come from, somehow that that service orientation and mentality has permeated you know everybody who kind of lives here and works here, which I think is an is an amazing thing. Service when when you go restaurants, hotels, you name it, people are friendly, service is great, uh it's a real plus.
Hospitality Identity And Diversifying Income
SPEAKER_05But who are they friendly too? Because local to local, because I again this my thing is always Aruba has been the focus has always been on our tourist for the most part, and again, we get it. It's what pays the bills, but then COVID happened, and that should have taught us that hey, you know what? I don't think we should be able to press that hard on tourism because at any given point something can happen. And we never really focus on maybe hey, you know what? Our people know four different languages. Why aren't we exporting that? You know, that the fact that they can do call call centers or whatever in multiple languages, or we've never looked for other different ways to export from our people other than go work in the hospitality for the main part. Go work in the hospitality, especially the last few years now. It's been very pressing on that matter.
SPEAKER_01Well, let's be honest. I mean, if you work in hospitality, you can speak Dutch, you can speak English, you can speak Spanish, right? You're very versatile. Um it's it's hard to when when you have something that's that's working and that's growing uh economically, right? It's hard to say that's good, but I want to spend a lot of resources on something else. We're a small population, everybody who's here who's qualified, can get sponged up by the hospitality industry. And so, you know, going and working in call centers, which by the way, is a pretty low-paying job typically. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh for a small population, it's I think a lot of people, I don't know if a lot of people might take that on, like I'm the massive cousin.
SPEAKER_05No, I I I'm not saying that that's exactly how it has to go. As currently now, we don't even have people who want to work in a hotel.
SPEAKER_02I know, but so I I guess the point you're trying to make is like we shouldn't just depend on one kind of one source of income. We should be also diversifying different kinds of income. What can we do? Numerous let's do vertical farming and we can outsource stuff. I mean, obviously there's no board within us in Venezuela, but like you know, just try to create other avenues of income, but at least lower the cost.
SPEAKER_01Can you the the question is can you we, you know, we have we're a small island with all things considered a small population. We are surrounded by water, right? So you need a boat or a plane to get in or out or get any product in and out. Um because our small population, the kinds of true diversifying initiatives that we could build are challenging. It's challenging, right? And and you know, governments the government can set up funds to to attract investment and things like that, but you need ultimately people need to make shit happen, right? And so you need entrepreneurs who will start start up businesses.
SPEAKER_05Good, that's what you need, right?
SPEAKER_00You do, but they make it.
SPEAKER_05But then why is it against us? That's the problem. Every the the amount of red tapes here, because that's where I was trying to go with you. If you're saying that that's where we have to be at, but then most of the money that comes in on the island goes right back out. It's no type of like, oh, Sam does this. Hey, everybody go support Sam because he has this business where they they help fill water bottles. And then this other person, I feel like, especially back then, that was what the community was about. It was a lot of I persona akiting matadim, de mango nanang I say everybody used to just sell and buy from each other just to support each other. So the economy could flourish, and then you had your little job and that was your little side hustle. But we we look, we have that.
SPEAKER_01When you when you think about diversification outside or or or beyond tourism right now, right? There are, I mean, we have a winery for crying out loud, right? We have distilleries, we have companies, you know, like Coastal Crafters that makes amazingly beautiful, you know, tables and furniture. You have um, you know, half a dozen companies making aluminum windows and doors for construction. You have micro farming, right? We there's there are a bunch of things. Now, some of these owned by a bunch of rich people that can afford it.
SPEAKER_02Uh like the micro farming is like not really owned by rich people. They're just like some friends. I know some guys that they're not wealthy at all, but they're selling mushrooms. I know a girl, Rachel. She does she started where the old studio used to be. She had a little mushroom farm. She's not wealthy at all. But I I do get your point, but but uh there are people so so what?
SPEAKER_01So what if they're owned by rich people, right? If we're looking to attract investors, who are the investors? Investors are rich people. No, for sure.
SPEAKER_05So we need them. We're just talking about the Arubans that actually have to work and do these jobs. The opportunity, the same opportunity is not the same across the board. It's not where systems are built where it's like, oh, okay, there's the same rule for applies for everybody, the same exact thing. That's not how it works.
SPEAKER_02I already interrupt the episode, but I just want to let you guys know real quick, every single week on Mondays and Fridays, Shark and I, we drop a new food review on our no filter each channel on Instagram. Take that stays the same, no filter in paradise, or just click the link in the description, go check it out. Anyways, enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_05And then we're saying, again, we're going back to we want to instill more entrepreneurships and more.
SPEAKER_01Look, I I gotta be honest, red tape and fringe's politik are uh not really topics that I am that I get it, that I am you know ingrained, I get it, I get it, I get it. All the nitty-gritty of society and government to be able to offer an intelligent. Sorry, I just get there sometimes. It's getting there, it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_05No, I am thinking I I definitely speak for Rubens, that's why.
SPEAKER_01And I definitely and trust me, you know, I I believe I hear certainly that there are hope who it's it's just too many permitting we said, War the hope largo pa bohaya approbation to reconnect. So i I get it. I get it.
SPEAKER_02Takes me like two months to open a bank account. Like that's right. Anyways, but I I wanna I wanna pivot
The Tipping Point Signs Locals Feel
SPEAKER_02a little bit. I want to go back on the tourism. Uh well, mostly on the conversations or the topics that you brought at the Kaveka. Yeah. I remember you mentioning something about Arubas at a tipping point. Um what for you was like the clearest signs that Aruba has reached uh a tipping point? Which by the way, I love the pictures you use about Tristrapi.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I mean to me, Tristrapi is certainly one, but it's it's not just Tristrapi, right? Tristrapi is just the latest. I mean, look, when I was still at Colegio, my wife, who was my high school sweetheart, I had a little I had a little sunfish, I had a little sunfish sailboat, and we would go sailing, we would drop the drop the sailboat by Fisherman's Hut, and we would sail and we'd sail to Arashi, and we would make out on the beach. Because there was nobody. There's nothing, yeah. Right? I don't think you're gonna go that way. Okay, so so now, like, hey man, Arashi is just like it's one big commercial activity, it's packed all the time, right? Um, yeah, baby beach, nasty, gross, yes, I talked about this in the last episode.
SPEAKER_02I was at Arashi like last week. Uh no, at the radio. I thought I talked about it. Not this past Sunday, Sunday before that. I went with some friends from New Jersey, and they've been coming to Aruba for a while. And he even one of my friends, like, yo, what the fuck? Like, there was even for me, I I didn't make a video. I thought I made a video, but there's so many tourists, like though it almost felt like you know how Brazil has that beach like at the Rio de Janeiro? Yeah, that's the vibe I got.
SPEAKER_01It's totally like how sometimes you see those pictures like in Italy of like you know, lounge chairs like lining a whole beach. So, so you know, and so it's that. It's also like the visitors, the tourists are complaining, right? The tourists are complaining. You know, me sobrino ta taxista. He says the tourists regularly complain to him about how crowded it is, about the smell, you know, which is a whole other thing by by Amsterdamer. By Amsterdam Manor from IOSS.
SPEAKER_02They were talking about like for eight years, like eight years. Omar Omar Steve mentioned he has just kidnapped code and jet matekolo, but nobody's doing it.
SPEAKER_01Eight years. This it's more than eight years. This was, I don't know, 12, 16 years ago when Marisol was in government. I remember Marisol talking about it because I explode. Yep. Yeah, and and and what has been done? Na Lapye, but my I mean, we the government has to spend money on infrastructure. Infrastructure is not sexy, but damn, yeah, it's gotta get done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I agree. Even what about what about the the the 20 bucks they're collecting from tourists every time they come down? Where is that money going?
SPEAKER_01Zohanab for ABSS?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but that's what I'm asking. Where is that money going? Like, uh, you know, I think somebody should hire and maybe not EY, maybe uh another auditing company, just go audit. Like, where's where where'd all the money go? That's 20 bucks. Because I don't know, nobody really knows. Same thing with the deal with Averly and this L LNG guys thing, but that's a whole different topic.
SPEAKER_05Listen, it's a lot of things, and I feel like Miguel Miguel brought this up one time. He says that, like, in order for you to see how your government works, just look at your roads. That should tell you everything. As taxpayers, just look at your roads, and that that only should just tell you like how far we are with this problem.
SPEAKER_01Well, then government works really well for one six-month period every four years. Yeah. Election time. That's it.
SPEAKER_02Do you think do you think that Aruba at what point do you think, you know, does more tourism begin to damage the the tourism product
What Luxury Travelers Actually Want
SPEAKER_02itself? Like because right now we're in a situation where it's like there's so much like the beach packed.
SPEAKER_01Hey, Aruba is a mass tourist product, right? Aruba is a mass tourist destination. There's a lot of talk about, you know, we we need we need to go from volume to value. We need to attract an upscale visitor, right? What what are you gonna do? How are you how are you going to how are you going to attract an upscale visitor? Look, Aruba, Aruba is, you know, I think is a more expensive tourist destination already than most in the Caribbean. Yeah. Right? And we have up, we have the Ritz, we have St. Regis, we have Hyatt, you know, we have some nice upscale properties. Uh and I think that that has probably raised the average room nights that that we get. But we're still a mass destination. I was at a wedding, they had a thing at uh a couple a month ago, uh, they had a post-wedding thing at Mumba Beach, and I hadn't been to Mumba in a long time. And I I walked out and it was sunset, and man, it was crowded on that beach, man.
SPEAKER_02Did the whole can't go there with your sillboat and make out, you know?
SPEAKER_01So um so so that's you know, it's a real challenge.
SPEAKER_02I want to touch on something you just said and pitch on both of you guys. Because for the longest time you've been hearing Bahamanku, massa, and we're gonna focus on quality tourism, right? That's what they they keep saying. We're expanding the airport for more airplanes to arrive. They just celebrated, woohoo, wingo, new airplane. But now they're opening Brazil and Argentina markets.
SPEAKER_01I those are not gonna spend more per thank you. So I don't know. North America or Europe.
SPEAKER_02That that's my thought. I mean, I don't have the data to look at it, but like, for example, Argentinians are known, guys. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but are known to not be tippers, right? So if they're gonna come and spend money on, for example, a hotel, and that's all they're gonna spend money on, and they're gonna cheap out on everything else. How is that leaving money on Aruba? Like, they're not tipping, they're not going to local businesses, they're just paying the hotel rooms or a very cheap, cheap Airbnb, which we're also gonna touch on later. And they they don't really completely be done, they don't add anything to the economy of Aruba. Now, this is just my opinion, because I don't think they're quality tourism.
SPEAKER_01It's a legitimate opinion, but look, the let's let's talk about you know upscale tourism or luxury tourism. What does that look like for for a minute, right? Because what what does a luxury traveler really look for? Right? Peace and quiet. Yeah, they're they're looking for exclusivity, they're looking for some space, uh, they're looking for a strong sense of place, like a strong culture, right? And and I unfortunately, I think Aruba has lost a lot of that authenticity, the authenticity that they look for by pursuing mass. I mean, we're if you look at our hotel strip and you put it next to, you know, uh Cancun or any of these other big destinations, it it's virtually indistinguishable. Yeah, right. And so as a luxury tourist, a visitor, why would you come to Aruba? And there are some that come, but we have to create, go back to investing in creating uh the kind of uh unique personal experiences that a luxury tourist would be uh interested in, right?
SPEAKER_02If you really enjoy the content, please make sure to hit that subscribe button. We release an episode every single week, and we love to have you for the ride.
SPEAKER_01I mean, let me give you an example. My wife and I went two years ago uh to Southeast Asia on vacation. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. One of the most memorable things that we did was we spent a day, we met a local woman who was a cook, and we rode our bicycles through the rice field with her to the local market. We shopped at the local market, which by the way is gone here. Now it sells t-shirts, but that's another thing, right? We went to the local market, we looking at all the weird shit that they sell in the market, and um and then we went to her house and we cooked Vietnamese food with her, and then we walked out of her house and sat by a little creek and ate the food and drank Vietnamese beers and chatted. And that's a unique experience. That's and and but that it was it was super simple. Anybody could do it, right? I mean, I there is room for so many small, you're talking about the rich people. There's so many small entrepreneurs that could do that kind of personalized stuff, yeah. And and and make a living and make a nice living.
SPEAKER_05Um I don't think you live here because they don't like that. They don't want you to do that. Who? You could you could most definitely do that, and people do it. When taxes come for you, because we're not gonna act like Aruba's taxes and not like a bitch.
SPEAKER_01Look, you make the money, you gotta pay the tax. Aruba's taxes, Aruba has the highest, one of some of the highest taxes in the world. We know that. That's crazy. But that's not a reason not to, but that's not a that well, that's a whole different thing. But but they all but but taxes. But living here, it all falls a line. But because you have to pay taxes is not a reason not to try to be an entrepreneur, right? We're not saying that.
SPEAKER_05We're not saying that for doing something is the red tapes that come with trying to be an entrepreneur. That is the issue. It's not being on I if you give it to everybody, I'm telling you, most locals, they're overworking for people. They would most definitely love to do something on their own. You know, many people won't want to sell people. Try to sell things things on Vrach and Anbot, but then they're like, hey, yeah, no, but it's like you know, and then this and that, and that and that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but it's a lot, it's a lot of it's a lot of shit. We're we're we would be a lot happier if we just paid attention to our own stuff instead of paying attention to what I agree with neighbor was doing.
SPEAKER_05I freaking agree. I agree.
SPEAKER_01I wish it was more of hey, let's let's do more of these than this well. Now, look, there's a lot of copycatting here in Aruba, too, right? So once one person does a thing and uh the the other person is like, oh, that's a thing, right? That seems to be working. Let me do that too. Let me jump on the bandwagon. Look, I had as a business owner, we had competitors. We still have competitors. And I have always felt other people copying my stuff forces me to be better, right? When my marketing team uh you know would come up with a campaign, and I would say, well, but as soon as we come out with that, company ABC is going to copy the same thing. Up your game, come up with something that's better that they can't just copy. Yeah, yeah. So it it forces you to kind of sharpen your skills uh and and and and and improve the product, improve the service to make it truly
Cruise Surges And One Ship Idea
SPEAKER_01unique.
SPEAKER_05Now I know um during Kavika you spoke about the whole traffic scene, like with the cruises. Because I know that's one of we're since we're talking about quality guests spending less. Yeah. And that was one of the that is one of the things that you actually brought up is like the tour the the cruise cut guest.
SPEAKER_01So here's the thing. And here's where I I actually don't think expanding the airport is ridiculous. Because I've heard that. Why are we expanding airport if we're talking about you know value to volume to value, right? No, exactly. So here's I read a recent report from the government, I forget it had a long complicated name. But the gist that stuck with me was they wanted the goal for the government is to raise the average cruise passengers spend on the island from $130. That's all they spend to $150 by 2030. And I'm like, I did the math. I'm like, that's 3% a year. That's less than inflation. We're actually gonna go backwards. Yeah. Right? And so, so how do you so I yes, so I talked to answer your question, I talked about one of the challenges that we have here in Aruba is cruises and not just cruises create a massive surge. And it's not just traffico tranca, like there's buses riding everywhere. Eagle Beach is filling up, if you can believe that. I haven't cruised tourists. I'm sure Nigeria has the videos number. You know, so um how what do you do? My proposal was one ship a day, and and just make sure that there's more ships lined up more more regularly. Stop the surge. But the key, the other thing is if you can turn, if you lessen the cruises and if you can turn cruise passengers into overnight staying passengers, even if they're Argentinian.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, that makes me look back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a lot more money staying on the island. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because now they're gonna go out for dinner, let's go to a restaurant, let's go to a bar, let's rent a car, let's exactly right.
SPEAKER_01Let's take a hiking trip or whatever. So, yeah, that I think that's that's one of the things. So we we wanna we wanna manage the surges. One of the things I'm seeing now, and it's it's gotten particularly bad now that they with the boulders they close off the north the north coast road. Yeah, but like Arashi, like Arashi, there's two times uh not Arashi, Tristrapi. There's twice a day that the tourists come by, right? They they go they go up the North Coast, they come back down around noon. The morning time. Hey man, there are like 60 UTVs there. And and you know, I heard Jimmy Douglas, and he's he's like, yeah, but they're there for 20 minutes. It's not 20 minutes because they're all coming there at about the same time, and it is hell when you're there. And it's it's it's not just there, right? And then at five o'clock when the tours come again, right? So there's a surge there. There's if you've been to um Conchi. I know you have conflicted feelings about Conchi. Uh if you've been to Conchi when there's no Jeep Tours there, it is it is truly a world-class, unique experience. It because the rocks, the the the waves. It's beautiful. It's amazing. But man, when you're there, the Jeep tours all seem to arrive at about the same time. And then it's just packed and it's nasty and it's dangerous, and there's too many people, they're all trying to crawl around that rock ledge all over past each other. And and so it's the surge. Look, we went, um, and you know, I look, I like to talk about my experiences because those are the experiences. Of course. Um we were when when uh my mother turned 90, she wanted to do an Alaska cruise. So we went with our whole extended family to Alaska, and we wanted to see bears fishing for salmon in the river. You've all seen those people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01So we had to go to the national park. That's so cool. It was very limited. It cost something like $500 to get into the park, and we had like a 90-minute time slot. And it was the the whole day was scheduled, so from like 10 to 11:30, we could be there. And that's how and it was us, and there were maybe six other people, and that was it. They limited it, they limited the surgeon with air A with pricing, yeah, and B with managing time slots. So, I I mean, one of the solutions that I would have is Jeep tours, you want to go to Conchi? Okay, you have to apply for a time slot, and you know, there you can start at 8:30 in the morning, you got an 8:30, a 9 30, at 10 30, 11 30, and we allow one Jeep tour or two Jeep tours at the time, and that's the max, not four arriving at the same time.
SPEAKER_02When the issue then be then the companies like ABC or even Jimmy's comment, like all like, no, but they go they go always, I mean no, like they all start fighting amongst them. No, because you book the time slot and you pay for it. Yeah, but but yeah, but like if if only two Jeeps can go at conch at 9 a.m. But like, hey, meeting 30 masuki by so who's out of the 30 who's gonna be.
SPEAKER_01Look, what is it's very hard to it's but that but but that sack a lot. I mean, you have to you have to do what you have to do. Look, if we keep allowing this kind of stuff to happen, yeah, we are damaging the product that we are living off of here, right? And so difficult decisions need to be made. And there has to be there has to be a way to to manage this. And and so, and look, I understand UTV tours now, they maximize their revenue and they're making a lot of money from running two tours a day. And if you start saying, nah, you can't go to uh to Tri Strapi at noon and at five, you have to go at 10 o'clock and at 3 o'clock, they're like, ooh, it's just the middle of the day. Well, yeah, you have to figure out your route then and figure out how to make shorter tours.
SPEAKER_02In case you didn't know, every single Saturday from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m., Shark and I are on the radio, XFM 102.7, talk about different topics. We have fun conversations, and best of all, we do fun games like movie and music trivias. Anything for you guys to win every single Saturday on XFM 102.7. Tune in, we'll see you there. Anyways, back to the show.
UTV Damage Fees Roads And Safety
SPEAKER_02Well, how do you feel about all the new the rock draw being placed?
SPEAKER_01I I honestly, and you know I I have been very critical of the U TV and ATV industry for for many years. Um and and they know it. I I'm I started and I'm the admin of this stop UTV Tours uh Facebook group.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I didn't know you went that deep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
unknownAdmin!
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and um and and let me tell you, there look, there's companies that are responsible about it. And there are like Junior Jimmy mentioned, there's some rogue, there's some rogue elements. Some five years ago, somebody shot at our house. Oh yeah. They were they were um the my mother who was elderly, uh she had a live-in lady and her son. Um they were sitting at the they were sitting at the the kitchen table, and somebody drove by and shot a a paintball gun, but instead of a paintball, it had a baker in it, a ball bearing, and it went right between them over the table, and it slammed into the kitchen counter. And then they shot at Rona's house and it went through her office window. So there's some there's some there's some rogue elements. Um and I know that has been. Because of that has the the the Facebook the page? Uh I I think because you know, uh I think both Rona and I have been very vocal pretty vocal about um the damage, the damage that the ATVs and UTVs have done. That said, back to answer the question, I I don't think it's sustainable to keep that whole road blocked. I mean, we have a we have a a beautiful coastline there. Um we need to find a way to I think to to get that opened up, but without allowing the damage, the huge dust clouds. I mean, I was at a wedding at Tierra del Sol, UTV Tour, it was daytime when UTV tour came by, the dust cloud was just it was immense, immense.
SPEAKER_02Especially by the rats, the red stuff. Yeah, that's the thing. But you know, you know, it's it's even Jimmy brought this up as well. It's like and I think I've even said it to him as well like why not build with the same rocks you're using to block out the roads, make dedicated like pathways, and not for like going ongoing traffic. And this is like only dedicated road that you can take as a UTV. If you go outside, have like park rangers like, hey, why you go back there?
SPEAKER_01Asphaltaica Mindy. I don't know about that. Asphalt. I would asphalt. Look, we drove, we it's quite a less.
SPEAKER_02I didn't expect that.
SPEAKER_01Here it is. When you go to the national park, you're driving on asphalt road.
SPEAKER_02True.
SPEAKER_01Um when you know, we were we were traveling, we were in South Africa, and we were in Cape Town, and you know, it's just south of South Africa, and we wanted to go to Cape of Good Hope, which is the southernmost point in Africa. And it looked like it looked like Aruba. You're driving, and it's kind of you know, little bushes and stones and rocky, and except we were driving on an asphalt road, and it was an it was a really nice drive. It was it would have been less pleasant, frankly, if it was a dirt road. Now I understand there's the adventure element of driving UTVs, but you know, I I think I think you actually make the North Coast more accessible to visitors if you asphalt that road.
SPEAKER_05I don't know how I feel about that one. That's okay. Just because I feel like that would be, especially knowing how people in charge, people or people that can make the changes in Aruba, the way that they think, everything is supposed to be beautification. And I feel like that would lead them to start making that area beautified. It's it will probably start with the asphalt road, but then within due time, you're gonna start seeing somebody's people's gonna start getting permits, that they can build certain things, and that it's gonna lead somewhere within due time. And I feel like it's gonna become a different argument where it's like, okay, yeah, not somebody it could be unless it becomes a protected space like me.
SPEAKER_02Like I hope so.
SPEAKER_01It could be almost like that. Whether the road, this is just a crazy idea of mine. No, no, I get it. I get it. And whether we got a crazy idea, whether the road, we love to poke on stuff. Whether the road gets built or not, what I think look, how many accidents have there been with UTVs?
SPEAKER_02There have been deaths.
SPEAKER_01That that the police they they and this is taking up resources of Aruba resources, right? The police, the the ambulance, the hospital, the police. I don't I don't even know what they do. I'm under my I'm somebody was telling me, hey, police that not the whiskey hand and the hospital, not the ni not the ni raporte. Um whether that's true or not, I don't know, but but uh you see you see it in the news, and and so there's that, there's the environment, there's the noise. I I think what what we need to do to to contain this, you know, uh is we need to put uh a significant uh uh environmental impact uh levy, fee, tax, call it what you will, like significant, fifty dollars, uh $90 per person per tour participant. And the money goes to A enforcement, put some park rangers there to keep them on the road, B, to environmental restoration and preservation, and C, those aren't even the primary things. C, I think is the primary thing, which is you price it just like the Alaska National Park example I just gave, you you use it to raise the price to lower the volume, the volume of activity. And and what do those companies do then? Like any business when the environment changes, they're forced to figure out how how do you adapt, right? Offer other activities that are less damaging. Because one of the big arguments that I hear from the U TV industry is pang, you know, and that's true. But if you're in an industry that's doing damage to the uh very product that you're selling, then maybe something has to change. And I remember seeing and I see them periodically, Marriott runs these ads and they have like 48 vacancies that they're looking to fill, right? There are a lot. Will there be disruption when you do something like this? No doubt. But it will be a temporary disruption because there are so many companies looking to hire employees. Do you have to change careers? Yeah, maybe well. You you do. But there are other positions to be filled. Look, when when my business, right, when CDs started dying, I was forced to figure out what are we doing next. Yeah, right? Pivot. And and so we we started figuring out digital music distribution, and eventually we started figuring out how to do ebooks and so on and so forth.
Enforcement Problems And Real Leadership
SPEAKER_05I think two things is is is an issue on this island extremists and control. I feel like every few years there's some topic that we find, and then we just go hard on that. It's like forget every other thing, let's just go ham on that one topic and don't just be whatever, just go in on it. And then I feel like the other part is the control of it all. We're saying, okay, apply these new taxes and add these all these things, but who's checking on it? We have a bunch of added on things. Look at the we just talked about the this $20 with the Ives. Who's controlling it? Nobody, nobody knows.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, nobody.
SPEAKER_05But then if your public doesn't even know this information, are you really actively properly busy?
SPEAKER_01That's that to me is craziness. Well, let's let's talk about this for a minute, right? Because one of the things that came up at the Kave Ka event was uh in so many words, they're like these additions, the these ideas are all good and well, but how are we gonna enforce any of this if we if we manage to even change the rules? Right? Because one of the things that we have here in Aruba is enforcement is is a joke. It's a joke, right? In in in many areas. Um we have so many laws, but many of them are not enforced. You know, zone zoning laws, lady cacho, um, you know. Uh it's a real joke. It's a real joke.
SPEAKER_05Nobody takes them serious. No.
SPEAKER_02So nobody gets actually like but but penalized, or why is that? I wanna I control. No. No, I sometimes the reason is because like a ruch kito. So like unpolistofriend is like eight. That's bullshit. I understand. I understand I'm not, I'm just I'm joining in with you.
SPEAKER_01Like you're you're just like letting those those things are gonna happen anywhere and everywhere, right? Yeah. Uh in in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Haverttown, a little town outside Philadelphia where I live. If I if if a cop pulls me over and I and I know him, he's gonna let me go, right? That's Tony, go ahead. That's not that's not really, I think, the problem. I think the problem is is kind of higher up and more systemic with enforcement. I think, I think creating laws and policies, that's like an event. That's a one-time thing. But enforcement is work, right? That's that has to happen consistently over time. And so it's it it's it's interesting, it's fun, it's exciting to create a new law or a new policy, and you have your press release and you have your memo. But that memo does not make the stuff happen, yeah, right? You have lots of government agencies. I mean, who knows? The government agency chiefs may not be bought into the new plan or the new law. Their employees may not be bought in, right? So you you need to figure out how do you you can't just have a press release or press conference and then expect that everybody's gonna fall in line and make it happen. You have to you have to work at it. There's a process to make that work. I mean, when when we um, you know, when when when we have policies, when I look, there are things that you need to do as a business owner, sometimes decisions you need to make, changes you need to make, that you know that some are gonna run into some resistance inside the business. And so the way I approach that is first off, I I discuss it with my executive team, and I, you know, we have sometimes very lively debates. Um and then I basically I discuss it to my with my larger management team, and we have debates and I answer their questions, and then um, you know, we I I go to them and I I I don't say, listen, here's what we want we're gonna do, and just let them, you know, throw rocks at it, right? I will I have a specific technique, and I say, here's what we want to do, and here's why. How do we make it happen? Right? How can we do this? And so when you when you ask how can we do this, then it gets it changes the mindset away from this won't work to oh let me find a way to make it, make them think. So I mean, and so at at the end, making enforcement happen is all about leadership. Yeah right? We have we have a We're they at look we're at We have a saying at at my work when a fish rots, it starts from the head.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_01And you know, so it's up to the government minister, in my opinion, to go to the agency heads and and talk to them and and and and get them on board, and then up to the agency heads to get the people who have to do the enforcement on board. And look, this this can be done. This is not pie in the sky. This happens in business all the time. It happens in business all the time, right? And then like I I would go, I meet with my exec team, then I'll meet with my managers, then I will hold town hall meetings with my whole freaking company to explain not just what do we do with the longest time. I mean, think of saying it, but the why we're doing it. Mr.
SPEAKER_05Tony, let me just tell you this. And again, I'm like the way I'm speaking, I'm not frustrated with you, okay? So I just want you to understand that I'm not like against you, okay? Not taking it personally, but I think like again, if I can speak for some arubens, I feel like it's at a point where everybody's just sick, they're just tired. I feel like people are not aren't even trying to engage in things that affect them. And I feel like we're at a very scary point because everything affects everybody. It doesn't matter. We are all affected by it, and if it were not, then eventually the person, the younger ones after us, they will be affected by all of this. So it's something that is it's all of our business. Everybody needs a seat at the table.
SPEAKER_01There's a there we're we're at risk here, right? We're at serious risk. Aruba is at risk of uh of losing the the charm, the vibe, the appeal that it has that drives our economy, which is the hospitality, right? Because because what we're seeing now, frankly, is I'm starting to see Arubans start to be pissed off at tourists, right? Who who frankly have all they want to do is come here and have a nice time, right? And and if if if that starts permeating broadly, I think part of it is like the the way we're marketing as well.
SPEAKER_05You're back then, I feel like we used to tell visitors that you're visitors, so they understand that you're coming to my house and I want to cater to you, I want to host you. That was what it was. Versus now it's like, okay, well, Aruba's your home, come here. You just be at home. So the thing is that you're getting now is that you're getting travelers now that are very much more entitled. They're very much more entitled. So they're coming up to a lot of the locals and telling them to change certain things and certain behaviors. And it's like, you're trying to tell me to change at my own house?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we we it's it's it's
SPEAKER_05It's a very and I also want to add because you also spoke about like with like your your mom and how they would the way that they would cater to visitors back then. I think where we kind of messed up is we we legalized a lot of people, undocumented and all this good stuff, right? The core of an Arubin, the core, which we talked about a while ago, is we are naturally wonderful people. That is just who we are. Like we will give you the shirt off our backs, like we'll take care of you. Oh, here, look, you take my water bottle. Like you're thirsty, take it. It's okay. That is who we are as people. If you're dot you're legalizing people that are not from here, why is it not that they're gonna go through an intensive training where they understand? You're not, you're not, you're not, of course you're not gonna be Aruben, but for you to just understand what the core of an Arubin is, this way now you can get your passport and be released into our the market of tourism and all this good stuff, because that is mainly what we depend on.
SPEAKER_01I actually think, I actually think, and I I mentioned it earlier, that that Aruba has done a remarkable job that our imported residence, labor, whatever I'm trying to find a you know, a good labor work first or whatever. Good way to say it, right? The foreigners who came here to live and to work, I think, are are generally good people, hardworking people, um and and I think have certainly within the hospitality industry and even even outside.
SPEAKER_05I mean, the other day, you know, well the hospitality is struggling to find people.
SPEAKER_01I I went to I went to Wendy's. I mean, you know, uh most of the people working in there are Latino. And it's super friendly, helpful. I mean, I I think Aruba has done um intentionally or by accident, I think a really good job with a very diverse population that we have now, very multinational population. Definitely. You know, staying staying uh a friendly, service-oriented uh country and and and economy. I want to I want to talk about one thing that you mentioned about the the advertising. I I think I think ATTA is really trying. I think ATTA has this campaign, and we can we can debate whether the campaign is effective or not, but you know, the when you love Aruba, it loves you back. And I think they're trying to position that that, like, hey, you gotta come here and you gotta kind of take care of things, right? You you can't just be irresponsible, you you can't just damage our country or you know, ignore our rules and our laws, right? I I think that's kind of the undercurrent of what they're trying to say. So I I I think there's a there is an awareness that the way Aruba is positioned and marketed has has to change and has to evolve. And and and so I I think that's that it's just that's just a process.
SPEAKER_05And just to add, we're not generalizing because I don't think it's all tourists are bad. Just like I don't think all locals are good. Because a lot of the dirt that we see in the beaches and stuff like that, it's like baby pamperers. People that actually live here. It's it's people that live here are is leaving this mess behind. So I don't think it's fair for us to say and be like, oh no, the tourists are the ones that are dirtying our beaches and bullshit, because it's the fucking locals. A lot of the trash that you see all around the island, it's that is our locals. And again, because we have no control, nothing gets enforced. So who I see I drive sometimes, I see people throw bags out the window. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with people? Like as a kid, I was in school, they were like, no, tira cosa and all these stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, we had uh, you know, we I think it was when I was a kid in the 80s, 90s, uh they had they had a camp. I mean, then it was it was really normal, tranquilo, but uh what the core de mooto, but the coinbook, bother feintana. Rapper Fe Bentana, you know, and and crazy, but they they started this campaign, Teneruba Limpi. And and that was the whole thing, Tene Aruba Limpi, and everywhere you saw signs and people were talking about it, and it was tenaruba super simple, super catchy, and it it it really overtime from constant messaging, yeah, right? Shoving it. Yeah, but it's it worked, yeah, right? The repetition worked.
SPEAKER_02Looking for your next meal? Well, guess what? You should go follow No Filter Eats. It's a link in the description. It's basically me and Shark going all across Aruba trying different restaurants and different food trucks based on where you guys tell us to go. So if you love food and want to know where to go eat next, click the link in the description, follow it, and we'll see you there. And enjoy the rest of the show. Peace. I do see what I do know what shark means. Like I see it in the Rashia as well, like the trash bins are overflowing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Over, over, over. That's just execution, which is a different version of enforcement, right? You have to you have to make these kind of things happen. You have to have the people and and and and of course the funding, you know, to to uh to make these things happen. I mean we have a surplus, though. I would like to talk about one thing, but go ahead. Go
Safety Crime And Prevention Programs
SPEAKER_01ahead. Because I think there's a you know when we talk about you know kind of a multinational population or resident base that we have here and all the tourist activity, you know, my sister, I I I worry about safety and and the risk of crime that comes with having you know uh an economy that that caters a lot to to tourists who come to spend money. My sister works in the Turks and Caicos. She's been there for a couple years. Turks and Caicos has about 70,000 uh inhabitants. Last year there were 48 murders. How many murders were there in Ruba last year?
SPEAKER_02Last year or this year?
SPEAKER_01Last year, 2025.
SPEAKER_04Oh, 20. Oh.
SPEAKER_012025. Three? Maybe. Well, our don't like to post it, so but there's stats on it, right? But but my my point is they have almost a little more than 10. They have a little more than little more than half our population. They had 48 or something like that murders, right? And and a lot of it was uh gang related. They have Haitian gangs that come over there, and and somehow Aruba has escaped. We don't have we don't have we we have crime, obviously. Yeah, we do. Some this tragically, this 17-year-old kid got shot at Fat Tuesday six weeks ago. Um, I mean, but but it's not it's not a huge pattern here in Aruba. Aruba is safe. And and I worry that if if we lose that, that that again that could have really never negative employment repercussions because it's gonna it's gonna kill our economy.
SPEAKER_02I think Aruba used to be safer. I don't think there is like crazy murder rates here, but there is theft has increased.
SPEAKER_01Petty crime.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, with that that hasn't. I even though a friend of mine, this happened like three months, four months ago. We they were here for a wedding, big wedding. I don't know how they were probably somebody had an eye on them, they ended up going shopping, Prada, like they spend a lot of money. Literally, they broke into the car, everything gone. So it there is there is I do think crime has increased in Aruga. Uh, but that happens because Costa Caro, Costa Biridific, Lotimo Chuck incomo. You bring strangers from abroad that where they're from is almost a normality. So like just let's just just break that window, take whatever's inside.
SPEAKER_01But you know, so look, the thing is, you know, for our government, really, you know, crime is easier to prevent than to reverse. Right? And and so, you know, there's ha there has to be ways to, you know, I mean, what happens? It's teenage boys and it's mostly boys, right, that are at risk. And so you you need you need programs, whether it's you know, music, sports, yeah, uh, trade, trade school programs, mentorship programs, right? Um, child care for younger kids. I mean, how many people here don't work two jobs to pay the bills? Aruba is an expensive place. Extremely expensive. And and by the way, people don't make a lot of money. You know, what is one of the reasons that our students, once they study in Holland, don't come back? Because the salaries are low here and the cost of living, the cost of living is high, right? And rent is high. So so we have we have these challenges. I mean, certainly I think we need a visible police presence like around like South Beach and the and the hotel strip, because there's there's a lot of people there, but it's not just about that, right? There's there's crime everywhere, and um you know there's there's there's a uh an interesting phenomenon that certainty of punishment works better than severity of punishment, right? If you're thinking about crime and you're like, they may there's a good chance they're gonna catch me, right? You're less likely to do it than if you if you think, man, yeah, I I could go to jail for a long time, but they're probably not gonna catch me, right? And so, so you know, the the the crime fighting, the solving the problems, et cetera. Again, you need resources, you need police resources, all of these things take resources.
SPEAKER_02Plus, it does. The stuff isn't that big either, anyways. You kill someone, oh you'll be out in eight years, maybe a little bit more, but uh am I wrong? It's uh they might even get less. Some guy molest a 14-year-old girl. Oh, yeah, he's out in two years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02How about you chop his dick off and like leave him in jail for five years? That's cool. That seems fair to me. Oh, damn. I mean, yeah, sorry, I don't got carried away there. All right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, long story short, I mean, I we need to somehow invest in our human capital, right?
SPEAKER_05I just want to say one thing, and then I want to ask you a question about something else that you spoke about in Kavika. But um the amount of things that happen on this island that people that don't doesn't get reported, so the average people probably won't know. And if you're somebody that's very much based in a lot of different community events and different type uh type of community um things, you hear about a lot of these crimes. There's a lot of things that legit legit I'm telling you, Mr. Tony, you would never believe is happening on this island. A lot of things. So I just wanna I just want to add that there. So because some people will listen to you now and they'd be like, man, this nigga don't know shit. But I'm just saying, based off of really being a lot in the community, there's a lot of shit that does not get reported at all. I'm just leaving at that. But something you told me about me.
SPEAKER_01You don't have to call me Mr. Tony.
SPEAKER_05You could just I'm trying my best. It is in me. Like, I just can't like be disrespectful like that. Disrespectful, I'm trying to try to be able to do it. I'm really trying my best to say Mr. Tony. I'm trying my best for like the longest, like not to say Mr. Tony. Every time you see me growing up, man, I'm like, don't say Mr. Tony. Like it's just uh all good,
Housing Crisis And Foreign Buyer Pressure
SPEAKER_05all good. Okay, one one thing I I I feel like you talked about, and I know we have like a lot of students from Holland that listen. Hey, um, one thing I really enjoyed you talked about was locals versus outsiders competing for housing. And I think that was such an interesting topic. And I I would like if you could just like break that down a little bit on the percentages and why they should not be competing in general.
SPEAKER_01Well, I look, I I think I think most people would agree we we have kind of a housing crisis here in Aruba, right? And it's it's rentals, but it's also uh it's it's ownership, right? And there have been quite a few houses, and I I don't know what the number is, because nobody knows how many uh Airbnbs there are. See what I mean? There but there have been quite a few houses taken off the market. But it's not just Airbnb, right? I mean, uh the the uh a house is turned into a supermarket, right? Or a house is turned into a beauty salon, right? I mean, there's houses that get the control is what I'm talking about in general. Um but so that drives up real estate prices because when there's less inventory, the prices go up. And one of the things and and one of the things that that we see is you know, if you're from New Jersey, or if you're from Rotterdam, buying a house for $400,000 is a steel. It's a steel in the Caribbean? In the Caribbean, on the beach, you're in paradise, right? But like what does that house cost an Aruban? 750,000 gilders. How many Arubens can be? And by the way, rarely banks, banks and mortgages are a whole other topic, right? It's I hear all the time. I went through it. I hear all the time the difficulty people have. It's crazy, and Tony. So finding him with my b- I'm finding him in my bank right now about some of the things that we're talking about. Um but but so I think we need to give local people who are looking to buy a house to live in a fair shot, they should not be have to compete on an even footing with foreign buyers or with business buyers, right? Because when you have I know locals, plenty of locals who have two, three, four Airbnbs. They bought one house, it went well, they bought another, they went well. And so they're they're they're business buyers of residential real estate, and they're taking residences off the market, off the residential market, exactly. So my proposal was, and and this is done by the way, in in other countries, Singapore did it, is two tiers of overdraft belasting of real estate transfer tax. The current real estate transfer tax is three percent up to six or something. 400,000, 350,000, 400,000, 500,000. I I don't know where guilders floating, and then after that it goes up to six percent. I think if there are parts, particularly for entry-level homes where where people are looking, we need to we we may need to charge foreign buyers as much as 70 percent. That may not stop a foreign buyer from buying a house, of course, but it will limit the it will it it will keep them thinking twice first, right? And and so because all of a sudden the uh 350,000 killer 400,000 floating house will cost a local buyer 400,000 floating plus three percent, or it'll cost somebody from North Carolina 400,000 plus 70 percent. Another it's all cost them 400,000, basically, right? So all of a sudden they're they're thinking about that. And and then as the housing prices get higher, house prices maybe the the foreign buyer tax rate goes down because you don't want to totally kill the real estate market. And and particularly, you know, look, uh there at the higher the house value, to be honest, you know, the smaller the local market is as well, right? And so you want people who have I look, I have a house in Malmok at some point. If I choose to sell it, I would like to be able to sell it, right?
SPEAKER_05And so you should be you should have that freedom.
SPEAKER_01So um, and you know, the the local market is probably small. Could I sell to a local? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02But there's there's also you know, there's a much bigger chance of getting somebody foreigner to pay like you can you can sell it to a local for 700, but you can also sell it for a million to somebody foreigner. You know, at the end of the day, it it's just it's your choice, you know to what you want to do with the.
SPEAKER_01But I think, yeah, exactly. And but I think the the the foreign and business buyer transfer tax can be used to somehow level the playing, somewhat level the playing field that you're not taking all these houses so quickly off the local market. There's another thing though. Aruba, people certainly buy houses here, but Aruba has a real culture of building houses, right? Arubans like to build their own homes. That's true. And you know, Dip has to do their job, they have to, they have to n think. Um FCCI, what have they done in the last 10 years? I I don't really hear anything. Now there's a whole thing with this Burubundu development. Yeah, they've they're building some stuff. Well, you you didn't it's been all over the news, dude.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I've been busy. Uh personal shit.
SPEAKER_05I'm telling you, locals don't have time for this. We gotta work, we gotta work four jobs. I hear you.
SPEAKER_02If not who's in charge of that, like um what the what was Minis de Harda?
SPEAKER_01Baba Baba Herbe, uh he was supposed to come on the show a few weeks ago um and and talked about it. This is this is a big initiative, and I think it's a needed initiative. And I I haven't gotten into the nitty-gritty. There's talk about well, the environment and this and that, but Ruba needs homes. People need to live, right? And and if you want students to come back from Holland, you can't expect them to just go live with mom and dad. Especially after living on their own. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05I got all this freedom. I could be with my girl of my my man the whole time, and now have to come back and live in my mom's or by my dad's house with their rules and regulations. That's crazy. And grown people now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Nah, it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02I think everybody has to go like vertical, go up, build more housing that way. Like Caribbean town, I think it's called Caribbean Town by Legan Sons. Yeah. That would be one. I'll be but that'd be pissed.
SPEAKER_01That became that that was the designed and pitched as this is for locals. Yeah, but where they started $400,000. Come on. For who? Come on, right? That was gonna be. It's between between the Casi Pueblo and the warehouse. Yeah. For four thousand dollars. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02The free the freeze, yeah. It's next to the freezer. It's funny because like I know you're actually right, because I was gonna buy one only because at the time my wife and I, well, we were just you know, we're gonna go from whatever. We were looking into buying investing in a property because hey, let's find a place for us, yada yada. We were looking at different spots because I I in 2019 I got a call like, hey, but buy it areno. I'm like, great, awesome. COVID happened, and then I never heard from dip for two two years, two or maybe three years, didn't hear shit. I was like, well, I'm a perdele. And I was in Spain at the time. Um, I we were looking at different places across from Montaña Plaza, whatever Montaña, there's like another crystal something, anyways, residency building and Caribbean town. And when I saw the price, I remember like, oh yeah, we're building it for locals, you know, yada yada. And I had the same thing. I'm like, how the fuck am I gonna pay so much money for something that's like small? Like for that for that money, if I had a thread, I can build a way bigger house for that money.
SPEAKER_01They were $400,000, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, around that, yeah. And if prices increase in the contract states, your your price will increase based off of inflation, or if material prices go up, it will be adjusted in your price. So, like I say, if you look it down for $400,000, they can change it. Like, no, it's $500. Why? Because oh, the price of wood or materials went up, so we have to adjust our pricing so they don't lose money. Yeah, I was like, fuck no. Anyway, I have one question because I know we don't have a lot of time left. I know. So I gotta go through a radio in about 10 minutes. Oh, yeah. Before we ask my question, I want you to look behind you. There's a few blicky cans, keen them. Which one speaks to you? I hope that's a number. Is there a number in these?
SPEAKER_01Number three.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay. He's got a question for you. Is it the chill question of the day?
SPEAKER_01Because I like to drink chill. That's why that's why I spoke to a gun. The other ones have too much sugar.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. It's okay. That's that's listen, that's why the water. Okay, so number three says, What is the best advice you've received ever over a beer? Oof.
SPEAKER_01Ever over a beer.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01A nice little chill. I was I was out, it might have been a glass of wine. I was out when when we were out um with uh we were owned by private equity. Um, this guy, he was a he was a funny guy. He's like, you know, Tony, you want to share bad news early. When there's bad news, like don't hide it, you know, don't be around the bush, come out with it early. Yeah. The other thing that he told me. Uh you know, when when things are bad, when whatever is like when you have to eat a shit sandwich, don't nibble around the edges.
SPEAKER_02Just take a big bite and just eat it. Gall that shit down.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Right.
SPEAKER_02That's good. Take it down with some chills. That's good.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
Freeze New Hotel Permits Proposal
SPEAKER_02Now, my final question is gonna be like, so you proposed um during the Kavika event, which you guys, I wish you guys were there, and I hope Kavika does another one again.
SPEAKER_01It was it was a great event. I thought the video from it. Is there a video speaker? Uh I feel like they were. They didn't film the whole thing, they filmed pieces of it. But I thought the speakers were all they were all, I think, re really good. There were some really interesting ideas that were that were brought for.
SPEAKER_02So you said in your Kavika event that you want, you know, you proposed no new hotel permits and cancel all permits for projects that have still that still hasn't been built. Oh, yes. So what are your thoughts? So elaborate a little bit on this.
SPEAKER_01And so we stayed at Radison Blue. And we're looking down out the out the window and it was lovely. And there's like a construction site next door. And my wife asks the guys, what's this? It's like, oh yeah, we have permits for 300 more rooms.
SPEAKER_02So um sorry, I was um so according to the 2025 AHATA um from 207 hotels representing 6,380 rooms on the island currently.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so it's it's two-thirds more, right? Yeah that we can get. So I I think I think we we're actually at risk if all these hotels start getting built, because they all have to get filled, right? And and and what what happens then? What if what if you can't fill all those rooms? Right? Are we gonna have an empty if we are we gonna have empty concrete shells standing along Palm Beach? Right? That's that's not good. Can we have ghost town? Um so I look in the nineties we did this. There were there were concerns back in the nineties. There were concerns that Aruba was oversaturated, and um Hanny, uh Hanni Ama was the prime minister, Tico Cruz was minister, and he basically went and got somebody to renegotiate a bunch of permits that were already uh uh issued. And um they they just they they they went to make deals basically. And it cost money. Yeah. And I think it hurts a little bit in the beginning, but but the interesting, I I think I heard Tico Cruz's advising Mike. So, you know, the guy who did this, who has experience with it, yeah, is involved as a consejero right now. So so I think that I think it's worth paying money to buy out some of these projects so that you you don't get yourself into trouble. Because these once these buildings are built, they are there forever. I think all the all the extra pressure, all the infrastructure.
SPEAKER_04Um all the extra pressure, you know, it's not just the tourists that are here, right?
SPEAKER_01We need people to work. The ripple effect is what people don't need to do. There's no there's no unemployment here right now, right? Uh or not not enough unemployment to to fill the jobs that we have to do.
SPEAKER_02Which means they have to bring people from abroad, which means more people.
SPEAKER_01But even when you bring those people from abroad, and then where are they gonna live? They gotta live somewhere, they gotta drive the roads.
SPEAKER_02Did you propose something? They gotta go to school.
SPEAKER_01They gotta go to school, they they they gotta go to the doctor, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_05Medicine, supermarket, they're using everything that we're gonna use. They're they're locals now. Yeah, you and that's what I feel like the government doesn't do.
SPEAKER_02Let's focus on the locals. Plus, in case you didn't know, every single Saturday from 10 a.m. to 12 p.m., Shark and I are on the radio, XFM 102.7, talk about different topics. We have fun conversations, and best of all, we do fun games like movie and music trivias. Anything for you guys to win every single Saturday on XFM 102.7. Tune in, we'll see you there. Anyways, back to the show.
SPEAKER_01Look, I I I think that the the hotels are the hotels are great, they do a big job, they do a good job, but all and and I don't want to I don't want to crap on them. No, but but the fact is, and I think everybody knows this the hotel profits from the big international chains all go abroad.
SPEAKER_02That's yeah, that's something you've been saying for all the time. They don't they don't stay here. And they bear barely almost nothing in taxes.
SPEAKER_01We're we're better off focusing on the quality. What can we do here in the local economy? I agree diversifying, starting businesses, um, and and keeping the money here, right? The money that stays on the island circulates multiple times, and the money that's gone, goes out, is gone. And that that, you know, it strengthens the economy when you when you have local business owners who live on the island who spend their money here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Personalized event. You good?
SPEAKER_05Oh, because I'm like, I'm I don't know how many different ways we have to say this shit. I don't even know anymore.
SPEAKER_02It's almost like we've said it so many times, even like something you said earlier, I can't remember anymore. They wanted to bring it up about the Airbnb stuff. But it's just like we've I've we've said things for many years, and two years later we're still seeing the same shit, and then nothing's moving forward, and we know masterism is a problem, yet we want to build 4,000 more rooms, and there's literally no control but everybody wants to complain about everything, but nobody
Airbnb Registration Without Bureaucracy
SPEAKER_02wants to enforce anything.
SPEAKER_01Look, I want to I want to say something about Airbnbs before we leave. Of course. Because we talked about diversification, and I think diversifying meaningfully outside of hospitality, outside of the tourist economy, is very difficult to do. It's needed, it's it's needed and it's all good. But what does meaningful mean, right? 20% like our economy is 85%, I think, tourism tourism driven, right? So meaningful diversification can get that to what 65%, 55%? I I we're still gonna be heavily tourism based in in our economy, right? And so I feel and and and I think this is fact that uh the short-term rental part of our economy actually creates meaningful diversification within the hospitality-driven economy that we have, right? Because how many people that used to work a job somewhere else now started their own landscaping, pool service, massage, they're they're now you're seeing like artists are starting to like you know, do paintings, their art, private chefs, all these things. And by the way, you know, even rental management companies, right? Um so I I think that there is diversification. This strengthens, this, this creates people, you know, takes them out of working paycheck to paycheck and gives them an opportunity to kind of work their way with as a small entrepreneur into the middle class and maybe eventually grow their grow their grow their business even larger.
SPEAKER_02Omar Steve always said this, and I always agree with him on this, is uh people should be able to, depending how big no grandize, why not why aren't you F Pac specifically? Why can't I not build a small one-bedroom apartment in my backyard and I can host families that come down, host um couples that come down to Aruba? And you know, this also helps the individual that owns the house. For example, if if I own the house and I'm able to build a small one-bedroom apartment next to my house on my on my property, it's AirPac. I get to rent it out. I can register it as a regular business. I rent it out to my friends, they help me pay my mortgage. I unlike hotels, I actually keep my money on the island because I'm paying taxes.
SPEAKER_01But like, but this is effectively happening, except without permits, right? People, people not asking for permits or or whatever.
SPEAKER_02If everybody has like, but you have you have to meet certain criteria because otherwise it becomes a free-for-all. But I have certain criteria where, like, if if you want to build this, you need to have this, this, this, and this, and this, and check. You have to register, you have to do this and this. You can host the same thing with with your mom, like to me, comma. Let me come stay at my house. Yeah, I'll cook dinner for you. Like, instead of going to the hotel, yeah, you can go eat in the Palm Beach area. But the benefit of this is now someone is paying my mortgage and my water and my electricity. They get to stay in Aruba with like a host family. And now I have more money in my pocket, I can spend going out, I can spend buying shopping.
SPEAKER_01Look, the Erfpacht issue is a thing that's a topic right now, right? Well, Erfpacht doesn't allow this. Except there are, depending on which source you look at, between four and six thousand short-term rentals already active on the island, right? And how many of them do you think are built on Erfart? Most probably.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right? They're not built on Eigendom.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um so that's a separate. Are you gonna stop all of those? No. You you have to you have to figure out a plan, a program, um control. And and and and and and and you need you need to know who's got this going on, right? Who has a short-term rental? And I think we you I think we need a registration, but it it it should not be a bureaucratic registration. It should be something that you can just, you can go, you can for being synchro floating, cinquenta floating, you can ask, get a permit. And if if you're a retiree, um and and you have you have something, you know, in an apartment that you want to rent, this should not scare you off from from being able to do that. Or you with to have your your you know your friends come over and stay with me. Your friends come over and stay with you. You just need to kind of be able to register, but we gotta know because there are tourist levies that have to be collected. There are income income lasting that has to be collected. But if you don't know who's making the money, you can't be sure where to go with the.
SPEAKER_05What are you doing next? Where am I cutting? Who am I charging? Who am I doing?
SPEAKER_01There's no control. But you know, there couldn't by the way, there is technology out there, there's websites out there that today can tell you exactly every Airbnb that's listed on Aruba. I mentioned Turks and Caicos earlier in a in a problematic light, but they have a small six-person task force that uses these tools and makes sure every short-term rental gets registered and gets taxed. Yeah. There's a lot of there is tax money that's left on the table.
SPEAKER_05The poor locals that can barely make it. And a lot of here we go, charging more tax. Oh, we just added a new tax. Fuck you and your tax. How about that?
SPEAKER_02And a lot of a lot of these Airbnbs are owned by people living abroad, and they probably have their accounts. Hey, just pay me over here in this account, and then just go here as a case.
SPEAKER_01Actually, actually. Is that false or uh I'm sure some of that happens, no doubt. But many of the people living abroad who have a house here that's on Airbnb, they have to have a local company that manages the the property, right? And and manages the check-ins and checkouts, et cetera. And so you have you have a bunch of them, Boko Bay, Cassiola, Vacation Aruba, on and on and on at Monchi, Lucha, whatever they just keep cropping up like mushrooms right now. But all those companies make sure the tourist taxes get paid because they collect them and they get paid. So I think it's it's it's a bit of scaremongering that you know the foreigners are coming here and they're not paying taxes. The foreigners are buying houses, that's for sure. And we have to address that, and we talked about that earlier. But I think more of those taxes are being paid by the people abroad because they are they have to work through these management companies that do operate and pay them.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I've already interrupted the episode, but I just want to let you guys know real quick, every single week on Mondays and Fridays, Shark and I, we drop a new food review on our no filter each channel on Instagram. Take that stays the same, no filter in paradise, or just click the link in the description, go check it out. Anyways, enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_05There's also this thing where a lot of them are now also playing it way more smarter. So instead of hiring these companies, if they know they got multiple Airbnbs, they just have a built-in team, basically. So this would just normally just work for me and then here.
SPEAKER_01That that certainly happens. And and I think if you have local folks that run them, I they're they're not going to Casciola, right? They're they're they're managing the sales and they're managing the check-ins and checkouts. And now, and that's that's where there's opportunities potentially, actually, for some tax evasion, right? Control.
SPEAKER_05So so we do need to register and yeah, no, I mean the thing is always it's we want everybody to win. There just needs to be control and it needs to be fear because Aruba is very good on. Oh, wait, I know Tony. Okay, yeah, no, you don't have to take go through that route. I think it should be one thing.
SPEAKER_01What can you guys bring in to talk about? To talk about the the red tape and bureaucracy and how the thing is should be.
SPEAKER_06Send them my way, send them my motherfucking way. That's why I'm asking you. I don't know. Drop a comment, somebody. Yeah, send them my way, send them my way.
SPEAKER_02He was supposed to call it. Oh, he didn't come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He he emailed us, like, yo, it's keeping on yeah, okay. They canceled, we moved, he canceled. All right, see ya.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I moved like three or four times.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're not gonna, we're not gonna even chase you, bro.
SPEAKER_01But um oh baba, if you're listening, give him another send him the other email.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, and like join us November, because every November we have uh um a political segment called Kibasia Ayagi. So, like we put the ministers or even like even the political ng. You know, we said Kiku Basi Ayagi. This year we just talked about it today. We might include more people outside of political, maybe like Haftisa, Ronella, like what did Ata do this year? Tell us your accomplishments, and we will ask you some shit that people are asking, want to ask you.
SPEAKER_01You know what the irony is of all this? And I I don't know, uh I'm sure we're well over here. I keep looking because like sure it used to be the radio in like 10 years. The irony is in in 2019 when they were discussing this whole RPV and Dip was having meetings, um hearings, public hearings. And I went with my wife, we went because we had a bunch of thoughts on what of course because we have opinions, we're all right. That's what a community is. We wanted to participate. Yes, and and at that same meeting, Ronella was there with one or two ATA staffers. And you know, we talked about our stuff, and then Ronella talked about what they thought needed to happen. And I'm like, damn, ATTA and we are actually saying the same things. And it's the same thing with AHATA. I think, you know, I don't agree with everything that AHATA does, but I'm sure there's like there's at least 80% overlap that I agree with what they're doing. And and the things they they ATA talks about overtourism, AHATA talks about challenges with UTVs, et cetera. So I think there is common, there's broad agreement. Broad agreement, right? But I I mean I would imagine one of the challenges is that for somebody like Ronella, who I think is an excellent executive and has done a really good job, every four years, she has a different set of bosses. And she has to somehow manage what their whims are, right? And and their desires to uh um issue permits and all that kind of stuff. So so that I I I don't some bullshit. Like that's crazy. I don't I think it should be the other way around.
SPEAKER_05Like, you can't tell me how to do my job that I've been doing for years and years and years and years.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know what? Credit where credit is due. Governments have come, governments have gone, governments have changed. Ronella is still there. They've they've tried to politicize a lot of positions. Airport, uh, airport, the harbor, uh, you know, different agencies that used to be like for career bureaucrats, basically, or professional managers. They've tried to politicize a lot of them, but ATA is still kind of because look, we need Aruba needs to play the long game. We cannot have different policies every four years. Thank you. We have an over we have an over-tourism threat here that requires a 25-year solution, not a four-year solution. In four years, there's only so much that can get done. So you need people who can be consistently working on this. And um, you know, I mean, what we have, we have green and yellow, green and yellow. Every every four or eight years, it's green and yellow.
SPEAKER_05The government is dumb, but a Rubens are dumber. Because they keep voting for that shit, seeing the same results. Does that make sense? Look, it's oh, keep hitting your toe on the same bench over there. Just keep.
SPEAKER_00Just it's hitting your toe on the toe. It's it's it's it it's a challenge. I said it, I don't care. It's it's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. There's there's there's no doubt about it. I don't have a solution to it. There are there are bright political leaders uh who uh sometimes they start up smaller parties. Um and they grow. Or they get kind of they go into a coalition with a large party because that's how it is, and then all of a sudden they get penalized for it, right? Um so it's look, I I'm not an expert at this point.
SPEAKER_05Of course not. But just based off of what you said, like with Ata and Ata and everybody like being on the same page, I think the main problem that we have in general is that everybody's trying to fight the fight alone. Nobody's trying to bring on community with them. Like we could fight with ATA, but ATA has to let us know hey, what are we fighting for? What are we fighting against? What are we gonna do? Have the community needs to have your back, and then you can go to war. You can't go to war alone. How much how many how much can you change if you go to war alone? You need the army, and the army is in you need to have. I even told this to Mike Eman. Y'all they need to start having way more town hall meetings. You need to start involving the public. That's who who has to get affected by it for the most. Look, I think Mike is great at PR.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't think so. He's the dude's a master, Baki Dimbario.
SPEAKER_05Um, he's gonna do photo offs. Yeah, and that's why I said Arubens are dumber, because that sells them. That sells them. Oh my god, he's so good. Based off of fucking pictures? Are y'all okay?
SPEAKER_03Damn, dude.
SPEAKER_05What is wrong with people? Like, oh my god, he is so good. Y'all see what he did? He just planted a new plan.
SPEAKER_02Guys, but he's like dying laughing off a camera.
SPEAKER_05Sorry.
Final Thoughts And Wrap Up
SPEAKER_02No, look, let's let's wrap it up. Yeah, I do want to say one thing for those putting all the all the rocks. I don't know if you're involved or not.
SPEAKER_01No, but whoever is involved. I was I was I was stunned. I I thought, frankly, I thought it was poorly executed. How do you yes? Give give him give people two weeks' notice.
SPEAKER_04I want to know who who did it. They're saying um Peter or no Peterson, the guy Peterson.
SPEAKER_02Greg, they're saying Greg is the one pulling these strings because and but and then I heard Kai the Papik, who um the the oh my god, conservation Aruba Funda, SAF and ACF has no idea because apparently government's calling ACF. Yeah, because I see it. Government didn't even know that was happening, so and everybody's pointing fingers towards Greg Peterson, who we multiple times have invited to come on the show. So whoever is doing that, I hope I don't think it's fair to blame him though.
SPEAKER_05I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02All I want to say is my point I want to make is not about Greg, but just I want to say for those who are doing those rocks, I hope you fight just as hard for the hotels they're gonna build right in front of Arashi next to those rocks you're putting down. So that's all I want to say.
SPEAKER_01I I I um I'm be pissed if there's a I'm gonna become Nigel.
SPEAKER_05I think it's unfair that U TVs get so much blame for certain things. If you're gonna say that they're ruining Aruba health, look at the all the different things that are are ruining Aruba. Are we gonna stop them as well? Like talking about nature. Okay, we have to rebuild our house on nature. Yes, wrap it up, show your house, show your homes away.
SPEAKER_01Look, uh there recently was a kind of a little, you know, uproar because somebody rosa terreno riba roi and and um they wanted to build more condos. And um that's a problem, right? Those are those are those are those are all problems. But the uh look, the rocks, my understanding, and I I don't really know Greg. In my whole life I've had one conversation with him. But um, um my understanding is that the Auto PV somehow does not the way that was designated as Nature Gebiet does not permit these kind of activities. And and I I don't I'm I don't have the details on it, but this is actually hunt-halving delay that is kind of encased in the ROP that we have. So But they're changing. I I mean I I would like honestly, but the early I would like our political leaders to offer an explanation of what is happening and why this happened and what the long-term plan can be. So it's pulling that apart.
SPEAKER_02Then you're gonna have to get a mic on the table, wending at the table, and maybe even the hours on the table. But anyway, all these motherfuckers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Tony, I want to thank you for coming on the show. Hey, thank you for having me. This is a one hour and 48 minute podcast. Oh my lord. This is crazy, Jeff. I am so sorry.
SPEAKER_01Time flies when you're having fun.
SPEAKER_05I still feel like we didn't even touch base with a lot of things. I feel like you don't have to come back. I'm sorry. Respectfully, you didn't come back.
SPEAKER_01I was when I come up with the it'll be my it'll be my pleasure and my honor.
SPEAKER_05No, for sure. Because I didn't think we we got to stuff. Like, I feel like now you're just gonna like touch your toes with us, and now you feel like the energy.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna bring him, and we have to bring somebody else extra, so it's it becomes like a whole not it's not debate, but like uh somebody we can all banter of.
SPEAKER_05He loves debate with his team, he just told us. Yes, let's have a debate. That's what's good. A healthy debate.
SPEAKER_01Vigorous debate creates better solutions.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. All right, guys. I hope y'all learned something. Um, learned a lot, yeah. Um, obviously, like Shark said, we didn't touch a lot of top, we touched a lot of topics, but there were more things that you said during the cave cut that we didn't get a chance to touch on. And um, guys, leave a comment down below, and we'll see you on the next one. Peace. Ayo. See ya.