Dr. Sarah Pierce is the co-founder of Joystik, a health and wellness app using a modern approach to classical conditioning. In this episode, we hear about her solution to keeping people relaxed and free from stress. Plus, she talks about juggling her entrepreneurial journey with her work as a clinician — what advice does Dr. Pierce have for her fellow founders?
Make sure you like and subscribe to "For Startups, By Physicians" wherever you get your podcasts. And keep up with us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Medium at @InflectHealth, and on the web at InflectHealth.com.
Dr. Sarah Pierce is the co-founder of Joystik, a health and wellness app using a modern approach to classical conditioning. In this episode, we hear about her solution to keeping people relaxed and free from stress. Plus, she talks about juggling her entrepreneurial journey with her work as a clinician — what advice does Dr. Pierce have for her fellow founders?
Make sure you like and subscribe to "For Startups, By Physicians" wherever you get your podcasts. And keep up with us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Medium at @InflectHealth, and on the web at InflectHealth.com.
[00:00:00] Lindsay Krieger: Hey everyone. This is Lindsay Krieger, director at Inflect Health, the innovation hub of Vituity, where we strive to be a catalyst for better care. I'm thrilled to be hosting "For Startups, By Physicians" where we share insights and guidance to healthcare startups and technologists looking to create the future of health.
[00:00:18] Lindsay Krieger: As a physician-founded firm, we have connections with clinicians and intimate knowledge of what they need and how they work. We will be interviewing our executives, frontline providers, and industry leaders to help your business be effective and scale.
[00:00:32] Lindsay Krieger: Thanks for joining and let's get going.
[00:00:43] Lindsay Krieger: Dr. Sarah Pierce is a family and integrated medicine physician and the co-founder of Joystik. A mind-body training app that integrates health and wellness using a modern approach to classical conditioning. She is a practicing physician at Advocate Aurora Health Urgent [00:01:00] Care and received her medical degree from the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health.
[00:01:05] Lindsay Krieger: Dr. Sarah Pierce, welcome to the podcast. We're so glad to have you on today.
[00:01:09] Sarah Pierce: Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.
[00:01:12] Lindsay Krieger: I am so excited to introduce the world to Joystik, and I know that you all have been hard at work with this entrepreneurial path, but let's take a step back and talk a little bit about your journey to how you got here today and we all understand, or some of us might understand better than others, the rigorous path it takes to go through medical school training and residency. And I just wanna know a little bit about who you are, how that journey was for you, and how it brought you to the place you are in today.
[00:01:43] Sarah Pierce: Yeah, absolutely. So I had a pretty traditional path. I went to high school, I went to college, I went to medical school, I did my residency, and I really didn't take any time in between. I just kept going. And I think a lot of us as physicians are trained to just put our heads down and keep [00:02:00] working and working.
[00:02:00] Sarah Pierce: And if you had actually told me when I was a resident that I would do something within the mind-body wellness space, I probably would've laughed at you and said, you're absolutely wrong about that.
[00:02:11] Sarah Pierce: But after a few years in practice, I found that it just seemed like a lot of what my patient needed I hadn't been taught in medical school, so I knew how to take care of their blood pressure and take care of their diabetes, and I knew how to prescribe medications for their anxiety and their depression, but I didn't really understand how to counsel people about the stress that I knew they were having in their lives.
[00:02:36] Sarah Pierce: I knew if they ate better, they'd feel better, but I didn't really know how to politely or appropriately tell people if you quit the job that you hate and dump the boyfriend that treats you terribly, you're not gonna need the medications that I'm prescribing you. So I felt like there was something missing with that.
[00:02:51] Sarah Pierce: And that led me to integrative medicine training, which is really a comprehensive approach to someone's health. It's Western medicine, plus all the things [00:03:00] we don't learn in Western medicine because we just don't have time for initially. But truly, the impacts of nutrition and physical movement. We don't have to call it exercise, but physical movement and being in nature and paying attention to the needs that your body has as far as getting enough water and making sure that you're resting and all of those things in that aspect, and that training gave me a whole new appreciation for how to have those conversations with people as well as a new appreciation for how to make sure I was paying attention to those things myself as well.
[00:03:33] Sarah Pierce: And that kind of led me into working in the integrative medicine space. And within that space, I was fortunate enough to serve as the medical director for my organization for a few years, and I realized that I really enjoyed that skillset of how do you solve a problem? How do you figure something out?
[00:03:50] Sarah Pierce: How do you work with other people that maybe don't have your same viewpoint, but you're trying to promote what it is that you're doing within the organization? And I just enjoyed the [00:04:00] challenge of using my brain in a way that was different than my medical practice. And then that led me to working with my co-founder Christian Stoll on developing Joystik.
[00:04:10] Sarah Pierce: So I have no background in the entrepreneurial world or space. Never thought I would be one, but I like learning new stuff and it's really exciting.
[00:04:17] Lindsay Krieger: That's so admirable that amongst the daily stressor of just being a clinician and seeing patients and worrying about those patients and the notes and everything that comes along with that, you created the space in your own life to say, I wanna keep learning, right? And I wanna keep growing and understanding how best to help your patients and also have a fulfilling career.
[00:04:40] Lindsay Krieger: Tell us a little bit about Joystik and the approach that you all are taking in integrative medicine and on this health and wellness journey.
[00:04:48] Sarah Pierce: Absolutely. So Joystik is a mind-body medicine app. And as far as mind-body — I know that term gets used, but not everyone is familiar with it — so essentially mind-body is the [00:05:00] connection between our brain and our physical and mental wellbeing. And the opposite too, between our physical wellbeing and our brains, and we can do things to impact that connection between physical being and our mental being.
[00:05:14] Sarah Pierce: Some of the more well-known things are things like yoga, tai chi, meditation. Prayer can be a form of mind-body medicine. So there's all different kinds of things, and one that I learned about that I have always been intrigued by and immediately attracted to is called Autogenics. And Autogenics is a series of phrases that are repeated to help cause a relaxation response in the body.
[00:05:37] Sarah Pierce: So a relaxation response is just what it sounds like. Your heart rate goes down, your blood pressure goes down, your breathing slows, and it's associated with a feeling of calm. And the thing I love about Autogenics is that it's very fast and very time efficient. And for myself, with my kids and my job, a lot of times we hear it will take 10 minutes and that's all [00:06:00] you need.
[00:06:00] Sarah Pierce: And many times I left thinking I don't have 10 minutes. Do you have anything shorter? Do you have anything? That's two minutes because I could probably spare two minutes. So Autogenics is extremely time efficient. Our longest session is just over five minutes, and when you're first starting out, it's two minutes.
[00:06:17] Sarah Pierce: When I met Christian, he's the only other person I met that knew what Autogenics was without having to explain it. So we both inherently interested in this technique, and we definitely found that there was a lack in the marketplace addressing this particular technique and certainly we saw, and there were and continue to be lots of people who just are looking for some additional support with managing the stressors of daily life.
[00:06:43] Lindsay Krieger: As a physician and practicing clinician, were you ever sold or brought tech solutions forward that you thought were helpful to your patients or do you see this [00:07:00] as a solution that would be marketed to the consumer or marketed to a clinician to then recommend to their patient?
[00:07:09] Sarah Pierce: I think at this point in time, we see this as a solution that we would market directly to consumers.
[00:07:15] Sarah Pierce: I want to be very mindful of marketing to physicians. I think there are certain things as physicians that we look for. We really and appropriately are trained to look for evidence, to look for outcomes and not just look for the potential of something, but that it actually does deliver. And working within a large healthcare organization, I've seen how very difficult it is to introduce anything into that type of setting, as well as, a simple ask of could you take 30 seconds and talk to your patient about this is actually not a realistic ask for the majority of physician. So while ultimately I would love if this would be something my colleagues recommend, I know that's probably not the best space to [00:08:00] start with.
[00:08:00] Sarah Pierce: In my own practice, I certainly did recommend and do recommend tools to patients. Many of them, I've experienced myself or have had patients come in and say, "have you tried this? Have you tried that?" And then learning about it that way, I start adapting it into my practice.
[00:08:17] Lindsay Krieger: I appreciate the honest response. One thing that this podcast is trying to do is bring together the clinician and the technologist to make impactful change, and I think there's such a disconnect often between the people that have the technical and entrepreneurial skills to transform the world, and then the frontline.
[00:08:39] Lindsay Krieger: Clinicians and staff inside of medicine that are saying the reality is X, Y, Z, right? You just shared really important information. The reality is asking me to take 30 seconds is not that feasible. And so people on both sides need to respect and figure out how are we gonna come together? Just all because [00:09:00] it has been shown with evidence, right, that patients are more willing to listen or more willing to try something that a clinician recommends.
[00:09:09] Lindsay Krieger: How are you thinking about approaching that in your own practice and/or what you hope for the future with a solution like this?
[00:09:18] Sarah Pierce: I think one of the things that we considered, or that I have thought about is that initially there is probably benefit to approaching solo and individual practitioners who do still have a lot of control over how their practice is run and managed.
[00:09:34] Sarah Pierce: And who may have a little bit more time to sit down and talk with someone on a one-on-one basis and understand the value that different solutions can bring and be willing to try that out with their patients. So I think some of that initially is working with those practitioners that happen to practice in a way that allows them the opportunity to explore new tech solution.
[00:09:54] Sarah Pierce: I know currently in the work environment that I'm in, I would absolutely be [00:10:00] welcome to explore those on my own, but it would be difficult to do it with the blessing of the organization, and I think a lot of physicians who work for large organizations do encounter that. So I wanna make sure that we're figuring out ways that make sense so that we're truly working into a clinician's day and not being an additional thing that they feel like is a chore for them.
[00:10:19] Lindsay Krieger: That makes complete sense, and your perspective from a practicing clinician is so valuable. So thank you for sharing that.
[00:10:27] Lindsay Krieger: Let's pivot a little. Tell me about a day in the life of trying to do all the things. So you mentioned that you know that you have kids, and we think about that so often, right, in today's society, we're trying to do it all.
[00:10:38] Lindsay Krieger: So how do you marry the role of co-founder with clinician, with trying to have your own health and wellness journey as a human? How does that work with you, and what advice would you have for other entrepreneurs that might not have this traditional entrepreneurial path?
[00:10:56] Sarah Pierce: So I think I'm still a work in progress for that.
[00:10:59] Sarah Pierce: I think the [00:11:00] biggest piece of advice would be just reminding myself as well as others, that there really isn't anyone who has it all figured out, and it may look that way for a day or two, but we all have our moments and we all have our days. So I have tried to shift my thinking more towards work-life integration than work-life balance.
[00:11:17] Sarah Pierce: And I think there are days where I give 90% at work and I give 10% to my kids and I don't get anything. And there are days where I give the opposite, 90% of my kids and zero 0% to work and 10% to sleep or whatever. But it just depends on the day. So I'm very fortunate with Joystik that I have a co-founder who's able to dedicate a full-time work to that.
[00:11:40] Sarah Pierce: So I am able to integrate those things in a little bit easier manner than I think others are because I have some time dedicated solely to my clinical practice. And then I have some time dedicated solely to working on Joystik. So that is helpful.
[00:11:56] Lindsay Krieger: And what have you found to be the most rewarding part of being a [00:12:00] co-founder?
[00:12:01] Sarah Pierce: So far it's just been the learning. Like it, it's all new and today I was setting up payroll for the first time, but I am looking at this software going, I never run payroll before, I'm not sure I know how to do this, but like I figure this out, it's gonna be okay. So I just love that I get the opportunity to talk to you.
[00:12:21] Sarah Pierce: I have met a lot of really cool people. There's just so much that's new and outside my realm of experience, but it's a lot of fun to experience it.
[00:12:32] Lindsay Krieger: There are a lot of startups, I would say, in this health and wellness space that might not be as technically versed or have the co-founders who are practicing clinicians.
[00:12:44] Lindsay Krieger: What do you see as the biggest opportunity for Joystik and for someone who's an expert in integrative medicine, what would you like to see come out of the noise in Silicon valley right now?
[00:12:59] Sarah Pierce: [00:13:00] So I think the biggest thing, and it's been important to me all along, is I and Christian as well, we have a vision of what we would like this to be, but ultimately what matters is the people who are using it and what their experience is and what they want from it.
[00:13:14] Sarah Pierce: It's really important to me that we get feedback and that we take that feedback and make our tool the best possible tool for the people that are using it. At the end of the day, that's what it's about. It's not what I think is gonna be best, but it's what the people are using it think is gonna be best, and that would be my request out of all the startups that don't have a physician background or don't have a physician in their back pocket, you go to the people that you are intending to serve and ask them what they want. Because physicians in particular, really like to be part of the solution, and we often don't respond well when we don't have input into a solution that's being given to us.
[00:13:49] Lindsay Krieger: That's great. Great advice.
[00:13:52] Lindsay Krieger: What are your thoughts on clinicians or other physicians that are skeptical of this [00:14:00] type of solution? What advice do you have to them, or what message do you want the medical community to try to embrace around these alternative approaches to wellness?
[00:14:14] Sarah Pierce: I think for me, one, one big thing is the idea of an integrative approach.
[00:14:19] Sarah Pierce: So the sense that, in my mind, alternative is, we've decided Western medicine isn't right, we're gonna go completely away from that. And that's not ever an approach that I would advocate for, but truly integrative approach is we're gonna take the best of Western medicine and we're gonna take the best of some other traditions as well, because there are other traditions and other ways of doing things.
[00:14:39] Sarah Pierce: What I would really wanna put out there for people is that there's all different kinds of ways to approach health and wellness, and there is no one perfect way, and I think allowing ourselves to experience different things can really be helpful. And being open-minded, even if we don't wanna experience those things, being open-minded that they may be helpful and beneficial [00:15:00] for our patients really goes a long way towards creating that relationship with them.
[00:15:05] Lindsay Krieger: And the same thing could be true for technology. How do we incorporate traditional medicine, alternative medicine, integrative medicine, and technology? How is that all gonna come together in one perfect swirl.
[00:15:18] Sarah Pierce: Yes. Yeah.
[00:15:19] Sarah Pierce: I think technology and medicine, one of the neatest things I've seen is the, like blood glucose for patients with diabetes who can just swipe their machine over the sensor and all of a sudden we have all this data and it's really powerful for a lot of patients and it doesn't matter my personal views on technology and diabetes, it is clearly making a difference and it's really powerful for a lot of patients. And I think that opportunity is there with many other aspects of technology.
[00:15:46] Sarah Pierce: It's just like you said, bringing all of the right people to the table. It's the patients, it's the clinicians, it's the people who have the knowledge to develop and make the tech where everybody has to be involved.
[00:15:59] Lindsay Krieger: So as [00:16:00] we come to a conclusion here, tell me a little bit about what you hope for Joystik and what you hope for patients that are struggling right now and are looking for some support in an integrative approach.
[00:16:16] Sarah Pierce: So what I would really love for Joystik is for Joystik to become a common name for people: "Oh, this is my go-to when I feel stressed, when I can't sleep, when I am keyed up before I'm supposed to give a big presentation and I don't know how to calm myself down. Okay, I'm just gonna do a Joystik session and I know I feel better, and that would be amazing."
[00:16:35] Sarah Pierce: What I would tell patients, and what I do tell my patients, is that I really think that our own health and wellbeing is a toolbox, putting together a toolbox of skills that you can use for the time that you need it. I would love for Joystik to be one of those skills. And there are many others that are available as well.
[00:16:53] Sarah Pierce: We talked earlier about yoga, we talked about tai chi, we talked, we didn't mention breath work, but breath work. These [00:17:00] are all tools that we can put together and for the right person, I'm hopeful that Joystik is the perfect tool.
[00:17:08] Lindsay Krieger: I hope so too. And if people are interested in trying out the product, how can they find it?
[00:17:15] Sarah Pierce: Yes, they can go to Joystik and it's spelled without the C, so JOYSTIK.life and we do have a few audios up there to get a sense of what Autogenics is and what our app will be. And we are intending to have our initial version of the app available later this summer, early fall. So coming soon, you can sign up for our wait list on the website.
[00:17:40] Lindsay Krieger: That's perfect. I have done the demo sessions online and found it really interesting and also relaxing as someone who would tend to gravitate towards yoga and walking in other physical forms to help my mind calm down. I find it challenging to sit, but it's also really rewarding to focus [00:18:00] and understand new ways of meeting yourself where you're at.
[00:18:04] Lindsay Krieger: So I love the product that you guys are building and we're very happy at Inflect to be able to support. You and showcase this to the rest of our audience. So thank you so much for your time today, and we look forward to continuing to hear how Joystik is evolving and meeting patients where they're at.
[00:18:21] Sarah Pierce: Thank you. We are so honored to work with Inflect. You guys are amazing.
[00:18:26] Lindsay Krieger: Thanks for joining us, and again, I'm Lindsay Krieger, director at Inflect Health here at Inflect, the future of medicine care and health delivery is not just right for disruption. It's increasingly personalized, accessible, and human.
[00:18:40] Lindsay Krieger: Make sure you like and subscribe to "For Startups, By Physicians" wherever you get your podcasts. And keep up with us on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Medium at @InflectHealth, and on the web at InflectHealth.com.