Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Navigating Fame and Faith: The Intertwined Lives of Ron Moss, Celebrities, and Scientology's Complex Web - Scientology Stories #35
Embark on an emotional voyage with us as we commemorate the late Ron Moss and his intricate ties with Ron Miscavige Sr., against the backdrop of Scientology's storied existence. We'll share intimate accounts from fans worldwide, the poignant and stormy bond between Moss and Chick Corea, and the unexpected ways financial hardship can entangle lives. We'll also discuss Elizabeth Moss's continued support for Scientology amidst her family's struggles, juxtaposed with her role in 'The Handmaid's Tale,' inviting reflection on Hollywood's complex responsibilities.
Venture through the lesser-known interplay of fame and Scientology, where personal and professional spheres overlap, and music becomes both a bridge and a barrier. You won't want to miss our musings on the quirkier side of life, from impromptu event management to the Aftermath Foundation's role in helping those seeking to leave Scientology's grasp.
Finally, we tackle the pressing challenges facing Scientology in the era of social media, evaluating their responses to TikTok protests and the role of music in shaping public perception. With anecdotes that span the eccentric to the enlightening, this episode is a patchwork of stories bound by the common threads of community and resilience. Join us in celebrating our latest giveaway winners, and stay tuned for more thought-provoking discussions that promise to engage and inform our dedicated listeners.
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Blown For Good Website: http://blownforgood.com/
PODCAST INFO:
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YOUTUBE PLAYLISTS:
Spy Files Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWtJfniWLwq4cA-e...
Hey guys welcome to the channel.
Speaker 2:Hey Mike, hey Claire.
Speaker 3:Hey Mike, hey honey Welcome to everybody joining us this fine Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1:Mike's got his computer on. We're going to just turn that off. One of the things we like to do at the beginning of every one of these episodes of Scientology Stories is just find out where you guys are commenting or watching or where you're viewing us from today. Even if you're in the replay crew, you can still put it in there. We like to just see. We get from YouTube. We get these things called analytics that shows what kind of devices people are watching on and all that good stuff. But we like to engage with you guys and see where you're in from, and sometimes we'll even put them up on the screen when you guys get in the comments there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like I see Portland Oregon, norway. Oh, I'm so glad someone from Europe is joining us.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's great.
Speaker 2:Clearwater, Richmond, Virginia, Bristol, Pennsylvania, Philly, Wichita, Clearwater, Netherlands.
Speaker 4:That's my favorite.
Speaker 3:Clearwater, Not to be confused with Clearwater Florida.
Speaker 2:Right, northern Montana, northeastern Montana. Oh, I bet you it's a little chilly.
Speaker 3:Oh, look at that Wollongong Australia.
Speaker 2:South Wales. Do you know, speaking of those analytics that we get, mark? Do you also have a whole bunch of people that watch your YouTube channel from Sydney?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did an episode, we did a podcast, actually a recap of the statistics of the blown for goods podcast a week ago. Yeah, the two highest cities are Sydney and Melbourne Are. Those are there are two highest download cities out of all the cities in the world.
Speaker 2:More than Los Angeles.
Speaker 1:More than Los Angeles. I think was third place, wow, or maybe even lower. Yeah, there's cities that are very popular. I don't know why podcasts are popular in that city, or our podcasts are super popular in that city. I don't know if it's just because we're calling with hands.
Speaker 2:That's why calling. Would you have where's my?
Speaker 1:calling here. I don't have my kit here, sorry folks, but I do have. Thanks to Dr X, I have a jersey that is signed by the team and has my name on the back. I don't know how she gets those, but I got one of those and it's pretty amazingly awesome.
Speaker 2:Me too, me too, and I've got like seven different calling wood caps.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, we have the boys. So the boys definitely they scavenge through all the goodies that came in and they scooped up all the good stuff before it got to me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dr X even sent one of those hats for Sir Jobolensky, which was amazing. Oh, that's very cool.
Speaker 2:Yes, she is a thanks. She is a an amazing lady who I have no idea how she manages to do all the things that she does. When she said, when she said that email and said I have 4000 or however many papers grade in the next week. I'm like 4000.
Speaker 1:You gotta be kidding me. You know it's crazy, mike, is that the last two or three lives that she tuned in on, she was in a different place each time. So she was like hey, I just arrived in Vancouver, I'm glad I call. And then the next one was like hey, I just arrived in New York or some other place. That was just like weren't you just in Vancouver?
Speaker 3:And she was in Boulder, colorado, for a day too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was. Yeah, we would have known we would probably would have driven up there just to say hi.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it was while we were out of town for a day, but but yeah, anyway, I know I was like, oh my gosh, she's like. I waved to you as I flew over the Rockies.
Speaker 2:Well, we should go visit her when we go to Brisbane.
Speaker 3:Yes, there we go.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay. So I think we took care of all the goodies and all the people and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, we didn't take care of all of them. They're like a whole bunch more that piled in, but there's too many to read.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw Christie's in the chat Hi, christie, oh and yes. And I saw Love Food Kitchen, which reminds me that we that that person won a giveaway and said to to pay it forward to another person. So if we want to do a giveaway, at the end we have perfect, yeah, so thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Okay, you guys.
Speaker 3:State. Alex is here Hi.
Speaker 2:Alex, hi, alex. Okay. Well, you know what? Let's, at the end, do a giveaway of this too, because I just got this. You can't even buy it yet. Wow. Paperback edition of my book with this afterword. That has that. I wrote that sort of an update and they sent me the first copies yesterday. It comes becomes available on the 13th of February. So let's give away one of these at the end to Wow that's exciting, amazing.
Speaker 1:Stay tuned, guys, if you want to get a chance to win that Nice.
Speaker 2:Okay, the. I think that the topic that we were going to talk about was the, the sad passing of Ron Moss, the father of Elizabeth Moss, chick, korea's longtime manager, good buddies and friends with Ron Micavich, senior for many, many decades, in fact, those two were like two peas in the pod back in the 60s and 70s. They sound alike, they looked alike, they were in a band together, they were making the changing the world with music and in fact they were in England At the time. When I first met the Micavich family at St Hill, ron was there trying to make a record deal at the time and with Ron Moss and the other people that were with them and he, as Ron, recounts and runs senior recounts in his book, they were on the verge of getting a deal. And then the Micavich family all wanted to go back to the US and he basically had to forego the record deal.
Speaker 2:They were going to be on the BBC. It was going to be like a real, the real moment of arrival of Ron Micavich and his band and it got sort of screwed up but it was sad to see Ron Moss had passed away and it reminded me of just how insane things can be inside the world of Scientology, particularly when it comes to celebrities or the people around celebrities.
Speaker 2:And the story of Ron Moss is like incredibly sad. He for many, many, many years was Chick Korea's manager 27 years Yep and he was like Chick's best friend and his like they were. He was like his sidekick and they had been together for so long. They sort of finished each other's sentences. And I happened to be in Clearwater dealing with the Lisa McPherson matter with David Micavich and Marty and Shelley and Marty Rathburn and Shelley Micavich yes sir.
Speaker 1:I'm just filling in the blanks for all the people that have just watching this for the first time. Maybe don't know who Marty is. Sorry guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yep. In any event, what happened was it turned out that Chick was in somewhat dire financial straits and he was living in Clearwater at the time with his wife, gail, and this came to the attention of David Micavich and, as a result, david Micavich brought Lyman Spurlock, who was a RTC person and a certified public accountant and kind of the guy that Miskavich used for I Don't know anything that had to do with weird finance stuff. Lyman was brought in as the guy to figure out how to deal with it Right, thank you.
Speaker 1:I think the the terminology for that is creative accounting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess that's probably it. You know there's a lot of people who have different opinions of Lyman. I Was very, very good friends with Lyman for many, many years. He was my Scientology counselor for years and years and years and I liked Lyman and and Miskavich sort of tolerated him. He called him the, the King of worker orientation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which is a very degrading Statement to say about anybody in Scientology being worker oriented is like being a communist, especially in the sea organization, especially in the sea organization. And that came about because Lyman was always pushing for staff and seawall members to get paid and to get enough money to be able to actually live and cancelling and he did this whole project to get rid of the free loaded debt Like make it so that each five years you were in the sea or you basically erased your Whatever quote free loaded debt that you had. Anyway, miskavich tolerated him because he was a CPA and he could do Financial stuff, but he didn't like him. Just yeah.
Speaker 2:But Lyman was brought to Clearwater and told that this problem of chick and his finances needs to be resolved, and the fact of the matter was he had massive credit card debts. He was basically bankrupt. The the primary source of those debts Wasn't chick himself, it was apparently gale, and I don't know all of the details of everything that Happened with respect to chicks finances, but I know from hearing David Miskavich talk about it. The blame was always directed at gale for having extravagant buying, extravagant stuff that they didn't need, and you know she was the the who for chick being bankrupt, and not not all the money he gave to Scientology, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I caught. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also that that's what it was discovered. In reality, that's what had happened.
Speaker 2:Yes, bonnet, a different way right, they, they, yeah, we'll get. We'll get to that because the solution that Miskavich came up with in order to infuse chick with cash was to buy his recording studio mad Hatter. Yeah and mad Hatter was this Little studio in Los Angeles, actually not far away from the complex. It was sort of old and run down but it had this special Neve Mix board that it was a new now.
Speaker 1:It was the GML. The GML, very black yeah.
Speaker 2:George Massenberg, that's right. Flying faders right. And this was considered by, at least by David Miskavich to be like, oh my god, a George Massenberg Mix board. We've got to have it. We've just got to have it like we had. Why we had one already at at the gold base in the Elgin Hubbard studio.
Speaker 1:There was, yeah, there was one and they always wanted another one and George Massenberg had actually built another one, but it was in pieces and it was a hole and we bought that one and it was a wipeout. So the fact that we could get another one of these, by the way, the technology by this point you could have a, you could have a 150 channel mix board in a in a three-foot console, because you can just All of the. The channels are assignable, so there's no need to have this giant mix board from the 1980s that chick had bought. But but that was the, that was the again. That was the spin, that was the shore story For why we needed to buy this studio from chick at an exorbitant price. That was way, way, way more than it was worth.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, I think that it was like 2.5 million dollars or something, that that that studio was bought and, honestly, that studio became the biggest white elephant in Scientology's history. Yeah, I mean, that thing was. Then what happened, of course, is after it gets purchased and the money goes to chick so that he can pay off his bills, it's better, blah, blah, blah. Then the mad had a studio had to be fully renovated, so probably there was another you know million bucks spent on renovating the place. Is we, did we use that mix?
Speaker 1:board that was in there. We took that out and brought that and got it all refurbished and everything and every other single person place. Part of that entire studio Was either ripped out or redone, every single the building was the only thing that we didn't change. Every right In interior thing was thrown. It was disgustingly old and dirty and run down.
Speaker 2:The whole thing had to be just killed, right, and then a bunch of staff had to be recruited to run the studio and then try to figure out what it was going to be used for and it never. It ended up, I think, being used mark to do voice over, voice over in foreign languages, like recording of voiceovers for videos that would foreign language vios like public service announcements and like Stupid stuff like it was actually a glorified Audition studio for a long time, because we needed to do those recordings in these various languages.
Speaker 1:But we didn't want to have to have hundreds of people driving up to to the headquarters If they weren't going to work out. So they'd go to mad hatter, they'd record them and then they just send us the files and then we'd be like, okay, these, this is the person, that's the person. But You're right, and they were doing like jingles because it because it was a music recording studio as well, so they could do voice recordings, they could do music. And then it sort of became the place when, if these guys were doing book, audio books for author services, projects Like the mesk amens and the tape roopers of the world and these, they'd go and record that type of stuff. All right, man had her because you didn't have to be cleared. If you, what? If you were a Scientologist and you had to go to golden era productions, you had to get what was called clearances to go there, because it's a top secret Scientology location that you can just look up on google if you want to know.
Speaker 3:But um, Clearances, otherwise known as let's interrogate you to see if you have any bad intentions, if you've been reading the internet, if you are you planning to leave Scientology? All that kind of nonsense.
Speaker 1:Exactly so going to mad hatter short circuited that you could just go, anybody could go there. So right yeah, we spent. It was a million dollar mill, it was multi million dollar project, and now they have an even more expensive studio right down the street. That makes it even more Useless and redundant than it was before.
Speaker 2:Yeah I. I can't imagine what they do with it now I it's probably a storage facility for CDs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or it's just a museum now, because this used to be chick korea studio and now right, oh yeah, we could turn it into a yes, a museum.
Speaker 2:In any event, back to ron moss. So the fall guy for chick and gales, financial, uh, straits, became ron moss, because he was chick's manager and he was supposed to be the one that made sure that chick was succeeding and viable. Yep, and so ron moss was Dispatched to the int base to get an ethics handling. And that's where claire came in, because while I was in clear water with miscavige and and liman, claire was at the int base where ron moss landed to be the, the new who. For why? Chick korea was, uh, an enormously successful recording artist with I don't know 25 grammys or something like 26, I think 26.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was just a guess but yeah, no, I think it actually.
Speaker 2:I think he had 26 wins, not nominations wins, I know, I know like one of the most successful jazz uh peonists ever, and yet he was bankrupt. And so claire what happened at your end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so yeah, like you said, he was the hit. Ron was the head on the pike for um this, the issues with chick's finances, and it was not common.
Speaker 1:There was only a handful of people that were ever brought to that property to be dealt with yeah, civilian Scientologists yeah, like kirstie alley, uh, lisa marie feshback the feshback brothers writers, some gold writers and some gold uh yeah, chicken gale, chicken gale actually were the other than tom cruise.
Speaker 3:The only people that I know of that ever stayed at the bonnyview guest house, which was hubbard's house. Um, they stayed there for some amount of time while while all of these handlings were being done, but either way, yes, ron moss was brought in and marty rathman was to interrogate him and, um, my role was, uh, getting him To reread the ethics book, and you know I'll do do these other steps. That marty had Decided was what was going to be appropriate handling for ron moss. But ron was, at least with my interactions with him, he was, he was like Not buying this, not in agreement with it.
Speaker 3:One bit the funniest was one one when I first went to go work with him, um, and he was just kind of making small talk and he was like, well, um, you know, oh, you married. And I was like, yeah, I'm married. And he's like, oh, how many years have you been married? Oh, eight. And he was like, were you in kindergarten when you got married? And I was like, no, anyway, whatever, he was not taking this seriously. Is my point in all that one bit. And um, and I, you know I had no idea who he was, but I knew he was chicks manager but I I want to say he was at that property doing that handling with marty for At least two, three weeks.
Speaker 1:It was pretty um, intense and Uh yeah anyway this was around 2001 um right, and and the one thing I just wanted to say is that usually, if, um, david miss scavage wants something investigated and marty is involved, david miss scavage has already determined the outcome of the investigation and marty's purpose is to confirm or just make it that way, no matter what the outcome. The reality of the outcome is. The outcome will be the ronds. The bad guy make it that way. That's that's how this is going and then that's marty's. That is how marty fits into the puzzle.
Speaker 3:At that point he goes and talks to that person, gets that person to admit that they did whatever david miss scavage Suspects that they did yeah, and when the handling is complete is once they've admitted to said accusation from david miss scavage and marty would be sending very, very detailed reports of every single little thing that happened every day during these Handlings to, to david miss scavage, shelly miss scavage, um, etc. To you know, until he, ron moss, had recanted and admitted that yes, he was the cause and the reason, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. Oh and, and sadly, ron moss subsequent to that became, you know, persona non grata. Like he may have been tolerated, but he was no longer Allowed to be part of the chick career world and no longer allowed to be part of the Scientology celebrity gang. He became he went bankrupt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he became a, a sideline. You know someone to be sort of keep a bit of an eye on to make sure he doesn't do anything completely crazy. Um, and it it's. It's a testament to how Scientology comes up with, or how david miss scavage, in particular, comes up with, who it is that gets blamed for things, and that that Stigma is basically impossible to ever get rid of.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you there are. There are all sorts of people who have been stigmatized by miss scavage as the who Usually for stuff that he ordered be done, who will never, ever Recover their reputation or status within Scientology. I mean from John Eastman, the class 12 senior cs of the flag service organization, who has been a bus driver at gold for 25 years I don't even know how long now and will never be anything but a bus driver To the, the people who may have found a, a quote, ideal or building that turned out to not be Exactly what miss cabbage wanted. And now those people are, you know, scrubbing dumpsters or something. It's it, and it's not limited to just see all members. It happens with public scientist to, and even prominent or relatively prominent public scientist like ron moss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wanted to show you. A few years ago I came across a video that ron had done and it was a. It was a music channel that wanted to do a tribute to check career, because check career had just passed a few days before this and and this was back in February of two thousand twenty one, and I'm just gonna put it up here real quick. Let me just see if I can add it here exactly. So you talk about the sensitivity of why you were fired. I mean what?
Speaker 4:is that about? Oh, I have to talk twenty seven years man yeah that was the worst years of my life.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, I went bankrupt Money, I mean that was. That was a bit rough, I see, for me, and it's really the last time I ever talked to check. I see I've never talked to him in twenty one years, twenty years, and that's my only regret about him going. It's not my only regret because obviously you know where anybody to pass away, but but the big regret for me is the fact I never got to talk to him again. The reconciliation we could have made, a record creation, but it's a little interesting thing that's happened. There's a possible way in his passing that I'm going to be out of Reconcile something. So I can't say more than that. I understand.
Speaker 1:I don't exactly know what that thing at the end was.
Speaker 3:That was no yeah, that's a serious, but yeah but the thing I wanted.
Speaker 1:It sad when you think about it now that we've just discussed all this he never was able to ever talk to check ever again. They, they want that him and check were best buds and he had done nothing wrong for twenty seven years. Gales out at the mall going wild, spending all the money and then run, just gets thrown right under the bus. He goes bankrupt. He never gets to. After twenty seven years of being his manager, he doesn't even get to talk to him ever again that's just.
Speaker 3:that's the tragedy and the evil of Scientology disconnection, right because Ron is Elizabeth Moss's dad.
Speaker 1:They can't just burn him into the ground. They have to kind of put him at a distance there and let him do his thing and he at you think you know, check it, passed away, it's all done. He still never says I got burned by Scientology. If you want to watch, I'm gonna put a link to that video in the description, because he tells the whole history of them. He even talks about Neville Potter and Leslie Potter being chick korea's managers before he came along and their famous seawater member. Scientology people. Now, you know, fast forward forty something years, but regardless, this is just Scientology disconnection, it's just another form of it, just because, really, david Miss Gavage decided one day this is how this is gonna go.
Speaker 2:Hey, you know, what's so Also incredible about this is that Elizabeth Moss still, to this day, support Scientology right.
Speaker 2:Like she knows that this happened to her dad. Yep, she knows the whole story of what went down and how he was scapegoated and he was made the bad guy and the friendship that he had with chick was Destroyed. Because chick now wouldn't dare associate with Ron Moss. After David, miss Gavage had predetermined that Ron Moss was the who, and then after Marty was done with him, no doubt, miss Gavage went to check and said all you have no idea, chick, what Ron was doing. Oh my god, he was doing all these terrible things behind your back and all of this made up stuff that you know you ultimately admit to if you get sex. Check long enough right, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:I'm sure that David Miss Gavage was telling chick the day by day updates of what Ron had confessed to. And yes, you're right, there's no way that this, this whole series of events, did not have a significant impact on Elizabeth Moss.
Speaker 2:Of course. And yet when she gets asked about Scientology, she's like, well, you know you should read a book and it's been helpful. And you know the mealy mouth, I'm not going to come out and cheerlead for Scientology because my agents will kill me. But on the other hand, she will not ever say anything negative, even though her father was put through. Like that's 20 years. He's talking about, yeah, 20 years of having his life basically destroyed, destroyed. And she's like, okay, well, that's just how it goes in Scientology, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, also the other reason that this has to take place. People like well, why can't they just say Gail spent the money? Well, chick Korea and Gail are lifelong Scientologists and they're also OT eight Scientologists. So the fact that they can drive themselves into, you know, insane debt because they just can't even manage their own finances properly, that's not something an OT eight high level lifelong Scientologist should be able to do. They have to cause of a life. Yeah, they have to be a shining example of a Scientologist, not like what do you mean? You spent more than you made. That's not how it works. You know, even in Scientology, you're not supposed to do that. But at the same time, it couldn't just be that, it had to be. No, there was some bad guy and this whole thing was orchestrated by a bad actor, because Scientologists aren't allowed to fail. That's just not something they can do, especially a 26 time Grammy award winning. You know, that guy needs to do better.
Speaker 1:As an example for them and Chick Korea hat was during his lifetime he was solidly and continually, continually used by Scientology as a Chick Korea, this, chick Korea that Scientologists. Chick Korea that never wasn't there and Chick was always sort of a celebrity that you'd see at Celebrity Center and his wife was always doing they Chick Korea did the road to freedom album of Elbron Hubbard's work. He did a whole jazz album, chick. What was it called the, the? He did a bunch of songs on this Elbron Hubbard music album called the spirit of play.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did a bunch of songs on that and his children were Scientologists that went to Scientology schools, delphi. His son Fadd and his daughter Leia went to Delphi and they were one of some of the first graduates. So that is the reason. It's not just because, you know, david Muscavige had it out for Ron Moss. David Muscavige, ron Moss, probably wasn't even on David Muscavige's radar until this chick thing came up and then it was like, ok, well, who's he paying money to? Always got, this is got Ron, ron Moss. Ok, the manager is probably him, let's just make him the guy you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and also Chick and Gail were also always front row at the events and so they were seen in the cutaways of the applause always, so they were like, like you say, mark, they Check in particular had to be the example of an OTA Scientologist to the Scientology world and a bankrupt OTA Scientologist is one of the biggest Recording artists in the world.
Speaker 3:Just don't add up yet not a good look for Scientology.
Speaker 2:He could not be that, so he had to be salvaged with like a scheme in order to figure out how to how to get him, so that that wasn't a public spectacle of him filing bankruptcy. Anyway, these things are just.
Speaker 3:It wouldn't. It wouldn't surprise me if he was conditionally declared or, you know, put under, put under some level of like one, one misstep and you will be declared as leverage to keep him quiet and and meanwhile obviously rock the boat with Elizabeth Moss, who was not the big handmade tail star that she is now. But I'm quite sure that the reason Ron Moss was not saying more about Scientology's involvement in that debacle, which obviously was A major life event and you can I mean that's just awful his close friend he hasn't, didn't speak to him for 20 years until, and then he passed away. That's, that's just disconnection at its worst. But I'm sure the reason Ron Moss was not mentioning Scientology was because of Elizabeth Moss right to be fair.
Speaker 1:He does mention Scientology earlier in the in that video, but it's all glowing. You know, we did this and we did that and you know, and it there was nothing. He didn't tell any of the whore he. He told the early days the good stuff, not the bad stuff in the in the end, yeah, yeah, yeah, they probably. You're right. They probably put him under a non interpolation order, which is usually what they do if they. They want to shut you up, but they don't want to make you an enemy, they just want to.
Speaker 2:They just want to Muzzle you so that you can't spread your, your truth to other Scientologists yeah and and I would bet that at some point in the relationship between Ron Moss and David Miskavich Because remember, dave's dad was best buds with Ron Moss that Ron Moss dissed Dave at some point In some innocuous, even way, you know, he commented about him, he called him short, he made some joke about Dave in some fashion and he never forgot.
Speaker 2:I would, I would almost bet my life on that, maybe the reason that he then suddenly became the who was because, dave, I always knew that guy was an asshole. Yes, since since the day that he said I didn't eat my vegetables, I knew he was an SP.
Speaker 1:I know what, mike, you're right, because there's one thing that Elron Hubbard and David Miskavich having comment, and that is they always even the score. They never forget, never forget, always even the score.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, so if that just occurred to me while we were talking, actually, right, I hadn't thought about it before, but you know he was convenient, but I bet that there was also a little bit more of the.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm gonna fuck this guy over, yeah yeah, that's sad and that is a that is a thing at the base. I mean, even when we were there, david Miskavich was always given this guy, mark Yeager, a really hard time, like he would go out of his way. You might actually is lucky that Mark was there because Mike would have gotten all of the all of the nonsense. But there was this other dude, mark, who Mark Yeager, who David Miskavich grew up with. They were together as teenagers in the sea or all the way, all the way up to the top for the most part, and when David Miskavich was even on the shoot team and he was the video I see, mark was the video cameraman guy under him and then when he became chief cameraman, mark Yeager was the video I see under the chief cameraman. So they were always together.
Speaker 1:And there was a briefing that Marty did at the base. It was, I want to say it was like a two hour briefing that well, marty did part of it and then Dave did part of it, but they essentially explained that Mark Yeager had been a suppressive person since he was 14 years old and his whole purpose in life was to destroy. David Miskavich period that was his Purpose for being on the earth was to destroy David Miskavich, and we never saw this Mark guy for years. He just disappeared. After that briefing, he just disappeared.
Speaker 1:Well, little did we know. He had been living at the property and he had been the we call them the swamp man at this point, because he had been out in the sun building a swamp fortress out of bamboo sticks. And he was out there for years and he got so tan that we didn't even know who he was anymore. And then, just like out of nowhere, david Miskavich determined that he should be back and he should go back to do what he was doing before. After years of just to punish this guy, it was like, oh yeah, no, I know his only purpose to be on this planet was to destroy me, but he's okay now he's good, he's, he's compliant and he could be my, my, my guy again. And he just went back to post just like nothing happened and everybody was like what, what I know.
Speaker 2:I mean that happened to me too, mark. I was living at OGH, the old Gilman the house under guard 24 hours a day, being sex checked, and then Greg will hear comes down and says you need to get dressed in your actual uniform and report up to the upper villas the upper villas being Miskavich's office RTC, the I'm I like. I go from my shorts and T shirt digging ditches to put on. Someone goes and finds a set of whites for me. I run up the hill, I'm waiting outside standing at attention under the little umbrella with the tables that were out the back there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, out walks Dave. He says sit down. I sit down. He says I don't know why. But Jerry Pfeffer and Manik Yingling want you back in OSA, so pack up your stuff and head to LA. You're the CEO OSA again. I had been the LRH Persepiro int for like two years or something and eventually got busted for who knows what and was out at OGH. I'm like the shit of the universe and then like that. Now I'm suddenly okay and I'm back as the CEO OSA int.
Speaker 1:I was going to say the other time that that happened, mike, was when you guys were all getting in trouble all the time, like Mark, yeager and Guillaume and all these people. And then one time you showed up to a meeting or something and you again you were in whites. So normally the CMO at this time didn't wear whites, they wore blues or they wore just a different color scheme than RTC won war. And then all of a sudden somebody in RTC went up to Mike and said yes, sir, right away sir. And I was like, am I in the toilet zone?
Speaker 1:And the week before, when I had seen Mike in a meeting, he was getting yelled at by David Miscavige for being the shit of the universe and he was in CMO international or WDC or some nonsense. And then the next time I see him, the RTC staff are calling Mike sir. And then I asked somebody is like what's going on? Oh, mike is Mike Render is in charge of RTC now. And I'm like am I in the twilight zone for real? And so like these things would happen. And then, of course, you know, a year later Mike was back in the shit again, of course, but he wasn't running RTC, but for a little Mike by 10 year running, rtc was very, very limited.
Speaker 1:I want to say it was a few months at least, though right, maybe a few weeks, A few weeks.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think Claire was. I mean, Claire was my-.
Speaker 1:Isn't that when you guys crashed into each other? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Claire was my saving grace because she was the DIG internal. She was in charge of the internal RTC and so she was sort of she looked after me, the only person that did. Everybody else was exceedingly resentful. They did not like the fact that suddenly I show up and now Mascavitch is telling them they have to listen to me and I have to run the product conference at RTC daily and it was like but that isn't even the most bizarre one. The most bizarre one was when I was living in a pop tent on the golf course with Wendell, guillaume and Marquega. There were two pop tents and we shared and Was it the?
Speaker 1:Army ones. Yeah, yeah, the old perlap Army ones, or do you guys get actually good ones?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, they were shitty. Yeah, and that was when Mascavitch would have the sprinklers turned on in the middle of the night and these things leaked like that's one of his go-tos.
Speaker 1:As soon as you get in that tent you better make sure you got something covering those sprinklers. Cause around three o'clock in the morning you're gonna get a rude alarm clock.
Speaker 2:But from being in the tent to him zooming up on his Yamaha, with Lou in tow, screeching to a stop, us running out and standing in attention and him saying, okay, you mofos, you may be all sucking dick out here and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever, but the people that are left behind over there that are trying to put on this May 9th event, they're even worse than you are. So, you assholes, you go take over the event and fly to Clearwater and do the event. And, like the next day, I was standing on stage at the Ruth Eckerd auditorium in a tuxedo.
Speaker 1:Yes, I wrote about this in my book yeah, so bizarre. There's a section of the book where I say you know, mike Rinder is full of shit and he was probably digging a ditch. And then they're like. And then I said no, I'm being 100% serious, he was digging in the shit before he went to that event.
Speaker 1:And then he stopped doing that and went to the event and I was digging in that same stuff and it took me days to get that poo out of my pores and out of my body. So when he was on that stage he was technically and legitimately full of shit. Oh, these stories are so inspiring. Should we do some questions? Sure, okay, so this is from Love Food Kitchen. I'll let Claire read them, because that minimizes my yapping and increases her yapping, which is always a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree.
Speaker 3:Love Food Kitchen, did Mark choose the three least flattering photos he could. What is that thing on JT's chin? Tissie looks like the Madame Toussaint.
Speaker 1:Madame Toussaint.
Speaker 3:Waxwork of himself and Chick looks like my granny showing off her new perm no.
Speaker 1:Thank you, love Food Kitchen. I just chose. I just type in the person's name and say images and whatever's there I grab. I'm not, you know. I do tend to grab the less flattering, miscavige photos when I do this for thumbnails. But other than that it's fair. Everyone's photo gets a chance.
Speaker 3:There you go, kelly Cavanoe, mike, I recently finished your book, mark, I just started yours.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks, kelly. Thank you, hope you enjoyed it.
Speaker 3:Marie De Jesus Gutierrez in the house. Hello, glad to see you all. Glad to see you too, Maria. We appreciate you being here and thank you for the super chat.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Maria.
Speaker 3:Question does it matter to you, not to me? Question has the reach for the aftermath increased since the squirrel squad started at the HW Test Center? Speaking generally, we've definitely had a significant increase in people reaching for help to the aftermath foundation. We have many new programs that are helping people, so I don't, and we've certainly gotten a lot of calls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Uh, Gerr Roar, could we see the cover art again, Mike?
Speaker 2:Oh, certainly.
Speaker 3:There we go.
Speaker 1:Perfect, there we go there you go. Very cool, I love it Nice. Oh, there's the back. We didn't even get to see that before.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 1:And it does have updated content inside of it. It's got some new goodies.
Speaker 2:The new afterward.
Speaker 3:Nice, that's amazing. Joshua Armenta in the house, lol. And now Elena Rogero is the star of Mad Hatter.
Speaker 1:She was a. She was an Italian. I want to say she was an Italian singer Singer. She won a.
Speaker 2:Freedom Medal.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:Little, little tiny Elena with a big voice.
Speaker 3:Rosie Dozy, paul McCartney recorded there in the 1980s. It was state of the art then. Oh, there you go.
Speaker 1:Yes, I know one of my um, one of my fellow students at Delphi. Her mom was the receptionist at Mad Hatter and um, she would always tell us when who was going there, whenever there was recording, she would be like, oh, we had Chick, we're going to have this chick was in town and he came and McCartney and we'd be like, oh well, bloody dog.
Speaker 3:Yes, apostate, alex, they remade one of the Super Bowl ads while I was on staff, so that the VO was a British accent for TV here. Pretty sure it never even aired. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:That's very uh. That's a very um frequent occurrence in Scientology, where we make stuff that never sees the light of day.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, betsy Sue. Thanks for all all three of you do. Thanks for that, betsy Sue, nice to see you here. And Pity Pat Hamilton, the irony of her being in the Handmaid's Tale. I know, seriously, I was. I had refused to watch that show and then I thought, you know, I really like the book. I watched the shows for the sole purpose of taking notes as to how hypocritical that is, and my notes were pretty extensive.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you Gizem K to the stars by Chick Korea Electric Band was dedicated to L Ron Hubbard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and a lot of the um, I think in the um, what was the other band returned to forever? There was a lot of for 10, uh, returned to forever. Um, musicians that appeared on albums over the years that were involved with Scientology even Stanley Clark, cause it was kind of in, was kind of out, was kind of dabbling, but all these different people that Chick would use were all also kind of orbiting around Scientology too. Yep.
Speaker 3:Uh, gizem K. So Scientology made Chick disconnect from him. So sad. Yes, yeah, exactly, tragedy. Uh many Hollywood is hiring these people. They have to take responsibility for their role in the cult. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, great, that's what we're kind of trying to get the word out about all this, so people can stop pretending they oh, I didn't even know.
Speaker 3:Yep, japan of Green Gables. Question is Elizabeth Moss's mother, a devout Scientologist.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Amanda Dale Super sticker. Thanks, amanda, thanks for being here. Uh one, two, three. Geden Kensen Fry Super interesting about Chick Korea's studio. That they made it into a production studio for Scientology. Propaganda makes it all even more sad.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Vernon Salvatierra Mark was Elizabeth's dad, a practicing Scientologist, when he died.
Speaker 1:I think he was still playing along. He wasn't talking smack about them, but I doubt that he was going over to the celebrity center and doing his communication course.
Speaker 3:If you're right. Yeah, they wouldn't have let him be on any upper levels or anything after all that happened with Marty Rathbun.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. Yeah, this is a follow-up question. We don't really talk about the people that we're dealing with at the aftermath, unless they choose to tell their story.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:So, even though we may be hearing from people or we may be doing stuff we really don't expect and we don't require that they go on YouTube or do a video or do anything as part of getting help or getting assistance or volunteering for the aftermath None of that we don't use. We're not mining the aftermath people for content, Like in the case of Serge, or the case of Rosemary or Catherine or one of these people that you've seen tell the story. They said I want my story told. I would like to let other people know that this exists and they can get help from the aftermath and that's why we do it. So until that point, we just don't talk about them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's important to reiterate that help from the foundation is not dependent or speaking out is not a requisite for receiving that help, and very oftentimes the people we help are starting over with absolutely nothing. So, and add to that speaking out about Scientology at all especially for people who grew up in Scientology or have spent many years or have lost family there's a lot of trauma in this space and we work very hard to be respectful of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, also, speaking out may not be the best thing for some people to do, right when they get out. Getting back on their feet and getting their mind around what's happened to them, for their whole life is more important than likes or clicks on YouTube 100%. Look who's here.
Speaker 3:Oh, dr X, quick hype back to school crew. Sorry to hear you were hit for six, mike.
Speaker 2:That's a cricket tone, Claire.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that went way over my head. Could you tell by the blanket?
Speaker 2:on my face. Yes, I could the sticks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome Sending blessings for speedy recovery. Mike did David Miscavige view you as a threat but needed you for events and get stuff actually done, so he kept you around. But in the whole my answer is to. That is yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, I would answer that. Yes too. That's actually a pretty good summation, one sentence summation, of my relationship with David Miscavige. Like when he needed me, I was really important. When he didn't, I was the shit of the universe. But the shit of the universe was always kept around in case he needed me again.
Speaker 3:Yes, and kept under very, very tight control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think also David Miscavige genuinely does need a stable of people that he can yell at. That don't lose their mind, because there are many people where he just never talked to those people and as soon as he did, they were gone. They would. He would literally run into somebody that he'd never spoken to and he would treat them how he treats Mike or Guillaume or anything, and the person would escape that night just from having a conversation with Dave. They'd be like, oh, I got to get out of here. So he needed some people that he could yell at and he could beat on that weren't just gonna disappear the next day too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right. Christy Colburn, renderer, carrie it's the same book, just a paperback edition with a new afterward there you go, there you go.
Speaker 1:I kind of I said there was new stuff in there and somebody had to explain what I was talking about.
Speaker 2:Yes, I also, just for general public information, recorded the afterwards, so there will be a new edition of the audio book. Ooh Now, with the afterward added Cool.
Speaker 3:Fancy. Nice Congratulations, gerreroar. Question mark what is your all time favorite side band of Depeche Mode band and track? Is it Yoss Martin Gore Erasure.
Speaker 1:It's a VCMG. That's Vince Clark, who is one of the original members of Depeche Mode, and Martin Gore. They do albums and I really do like their stuff. Thanks for that, Gerreroar. That's some seriously deep Depeche Mode trivia right there.
Speaker 3:It sure is. Metalhead super chat at Mike when you were sick in the hospital. Have you ever looked back at your life, reflect on your career in the C organization and regret not smoking enough cigarettes?
Speaker 1:I had to put that one up. I thought that was hilarious.
Speaker 2:Well, ultimately, metalhead. I don't have lung cancer and Hubbard says that not smoking enough causes you to have lung cancer, so probably not.
Speaker 1:You know I never made this connection, but John Page, who we've talked about in a few, I don't know if you remember John Page he also went by Oliver Page or Oliver Wecraft Page or Wecraft Page, I can't remember, but regardless, he said giving Gavin Potter's dad Neville is Gavin Potter, the son of Neville and Leslie Potter.
Speaker 3:I always thought so. Not Leslie, but Neville. Oh different mother.
Speaker 1:Neville is Gavin Potter's father. I never knew that. That is amazing to me.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then there was a girl too. I can't remember her name Leanne Leanne.
Speaker 3:But that was James' wife.
Speaker 2:That was James Potter's wife. Oh no, James is Neville's. Oh, Gavin Potter. Okay, yeah, yeah, Gavin Potter is not Neville's.
Speaker 3:No Jack sorry, I was thinking, james, while you were reading Gavin, and then, of course, gavin is the yes.
Speaker 1:For all those who don't know what the hell we're talking about there was a steward member that was at the end of the maze and his name was James Potter and he was sort of like the person that was supposed to promote L Ron Hubbard's writings and doing things like L Ron Hubbard at the property of the end base. And one day he was on the internet, which I don't exactly know why he had access to the internet, but he did have access.
Speaker 1:Because he was a PRO? Yeah, oh, because he was doing stuff and trying to promote. He was called upon to send emails and do different stuff for that post. Well, David Miscavage was in the building. Because David Miscavage would meet in these buildings where these guys would work, that's where he would meet to figure out the events and do script writing, because it was right next to where the editing bays were and where he had to watch all the shots that were shot by the shoot crews. Since he had to do that anyway, it was convenient for him just to work and move his offices to these conference rooms where James was on the internet.
Speaker 1:And I don't know why James maybe not the best, not the sharpest tool in the shed he was looking. He had searched David Miscavage and he was looking at pictures of David Miscavage on the internet and in one of those pictures someone was holding a Pew Pew to David Miscavage's head, in a picture on the internet, and David Miscavage was standing behind James while he was looking at that on the computer. And yeah, we didn't hear from James for a minute. Yeah, that was the end of old James.
Speaker 3:That would be a situation of curiosity. Killed the cat, yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So, John, I don't think that Gavin, I don't know that. I don't know the relation of Gavin Potter to the us, and also, is it Neville? It is Neville Potter and it is Gavin Potter, but I don't know. We have to find somebody who knows that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, james Potter. Yeah, exactly. So there you go. We don't know the answer to that. In other words, after all of that discussion, oh, here's a great one from Gina. Gina Mike, when you were in OSA, how would you try to handle quote unquote the TikTok protesters?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what they can do about this. Close down the test center like just a band on it.
Speaker 1:It's funny they're doing the same old things though, mike you know what they're doing.
Speaker 1:They're playing music. I know At the gold base we realized early on if there's protesters on the highway, you just have to get some speakers and point the speakers at the protesters, because YouTube, if you play music, it also drowns out their dialogue, so they can't really say anything. But if YouTube detects that there's a song on in your video, it'll demonetize your video. So Scientology's been doing this for years. They just play music and then they have to walk away. But the way YouTube works now it's not really. That doesn't really work. It has to be.
Speaker 3:you have to be using the original. Isn't it considered fair use in that context?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Fair use is one thing, but monetizing it using someone else's music. You can't do that so it basically takes the incentive away for you to go there, because your video's not gonna make any money if you record it there. Yeah, but that's not even a good it's not even really enough.
Speaker 2:It's not a good solution?
Speaker 3:It's not bulletproof, luckily for Mike. He's not there and doesn't have to deal with this. I exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:He's on the other side of it now, so it's like hey, and the other thing is people. I don't wanna be disrespectful to people asking questions, but people have commented on videos like hey, why aren't you at the protest? I live in Colorado, I have a day job, I can't just pop up there.
Speaker 1:We have three kids and day jobs and I got a lot of stuff happening and also I have to travel for work and if that work is not near a protest I'm not gonna be there. So that's the answer to that, but I'm not gonna dissuade anyone from doing anything. We on our channel, we're trying to get as much of the information out there on Scientology, because in Scientology, the Scientologists that are watching these videos the more information they can get that they have been cut off from, that is the information that's gonna help them make better decisions, because they're operating with limited information. They're getting the information that David Mascavage is giving them and if we give them the behind the scenes stuff, then they could make a more appropriate decision about Scientology.
Speaker 2:Right and also from my perspective.
Speaker 2:Just my experience in Scientology and dealing with these things in the past is that to some extent, people standing outside of buildings quote protesting reaffirms in the minds of those people inside those buildings that it's just a bunch of assholes out there who are all seeking the destruction of Scientology, and it doesn't accomplish the objective of getting people to think about what's going on here.
Speaker 2:And is this really something that I wanna continue to be involved in? It is something that tends to reaffirm for them what they're being told by the Scientology policies of Hubbard and Mascavage and Co that you see, this is proof that we just need to work harder, because there are crazy things are going crazy. Well, the SPs are going crazy. It means that we are succeeding, and that is the mindset of a Scientologist as much as those people in general are well intentioned. I don't think that, unless you can get, unless you can understand the mindset of the people that you're addressing, are you going to be very successful at accomplishing anything with them, and it is my view that information that they have not had access to is far more important than seeing people telling them that there are souls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the other thing is that it might be very impinging or doing something to maybe somebody who's at the individual test center, as that's a Seaword member that you're talking to. That might. It might not be the worst thing to do to give them the aftermath number or something like that, but to get thousands of Scientologists out, we have to just give them, just get as much information out as possible and get as many stories out as possible. And that's the other thing. There's people that are in Scientology that knew about this Ron Moss story. There's probably a hundred or so Scientologists that knew about this whole thing, but they didn't really know what happened. They just knew something happened and Ron's in trouble and he don't talk to Chick anymore, but then he doesn't mention anything about it and we have.
Speaker 2:It's just a mystery. But we know better than to ask ourselves that's right, and one of those people has now heard this. That may be the thing that they go okay. Suddenly a whole lot of stuff makes sense to me. Suddenly they start doubting all sorts of other things that have happened.
Speaker 1:So and also, it just puts another stack on David Mascabbage's little log fire of nonsense. That another thing that he did. That makes it so. That's the other thing you got to understand about Scientology is they will leave Scientology if they believe that David Mascabbage is not doing what L Ron Hubbard said he should do, and then when they leave Scientology, then they might find out that L Ron Hubbard wasn't the best dude either, which we covered in the video yesterday. So it's one of these things where they need a, they kind of need a reason that follows Scientology logic to leave Scientology. As insane as that sounds, that is how Scientology is wired and how they brain, you know, trip you or whatever you want to call it. Okay, we're going to answer a few more questions and we're going to do a giveaway Citizen Cone. Thank you for the superstar. That's very generous of you, thank you.
Speaker 1:And then another Depeche how do you feel about new order? I feel great about new order. Blue Monday is awesome. I also like the Bizarre Love Triangle and I have some of the vinyl behind me, thank you. Thank you for that. Appreciate it. Okay, now we're going to do merch, right, yeah?
Speaker 3:merch, and then Mike's book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're going to do a merch giveaway. And then we're going to do you know, we're going to do a book giveaway, and so if you want one of those things, get in the comments and say merch or book or whichever one you want, and we're going to do any MeanyMineyMo and we're going to pick one. And it's not going to be you, matt Denney, because you won yesterday. How can I do something out there? Anyway, here we go, you ready. I'm going to give people a few minutes to get in there. I'm seeing comments.
Speaker 2:I just want to pick up on one comment here. Yeah, this latest one that Red Lane, Red Lynn.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, here, I got it, I got it. Can you bring that up? Yep, let me find it, hold on. Oh sorry, working on it, here we go.
Speaker 2:Perfect. The protesters aren't trying to get them out, they are trying to stop new ones from going on. Exactly, on going in. You missed the point of the protesters. You're all trying to do good things from different angles. That's exactly right. We weren't saying the protesters are not accomplishing anything. Yeah, the question was why are we not out there? Well, I live in Florida, mark lives in Colorado, so we're doing what we can do. I agree that, as I said, I would close down that Hollywood Test Center. They have effectively shut down the inflow line for Scientology through the Test Center on Hollywood Boulevard.
Speaker 2:There isn't anybody going in there, because when they go to take a step inside, there are a bunch of people outside saying you know, this is a cult.
Speaker 1:You know, this is Scientology, which is amazing.
Speaker 4:You know this you know that it's the best.
Speaker 2:That has shut down that Test Center. I'm not dissing that at all and I didn't mean to if I sounded like I was. I was saying we are doing what we can do and what we think is going to accomplish getting people out of Scientology. We don't have a whole lot of ability to do anything about, you know, potentially new people coming in, other than providing information. But yeah, I think it's great.
Speaker 1:I think if they keep doing it, I think they will shut that Test Center down, because it's not going to stop until they do. Really, I don't know, I don't know what the Tick Packer guys are going to do, but you can see there's videos with William where they have these Test Center guys who have engaged a family of people and when he comes up, they basically add up. They just go like, oh wait, what? It's a cult. And he also knows a little bit of Spanish, so he'll tell him it's a cult in Spanish. And most of the people that they're getting that's another thing that is very disproportionate in that Hollywood area is a lot of these people they're getting in, our foreigners. I did notice that a lot of the people that they're engaging with are foreigners, so the Test Center know what they can and can't, who they can and can't get in. So, yeah, that is the reason we're not there.
Speaker 1:And the Tick Talkers as far as I'm concerned, I'm not telling anybody how to do anything. If they want to do it that way, do it that way. If that's what works for them, do it that way. And yeah, there you go. Okay, what is this? Okay, giveaways. Oh, yes, giveaway. I'm going to go back to the live ones. I had to catch up. I was like I don't see any comments.
Speaker 3:And now they're all like no, hurry up and stop talking. We told people to comment and they're doing it.
Speaker 1:Okay, here we go. Eenie Meanie, Miney, Moe.
Speaker 3:Mary Kay London. Awesome Congratulations. Please send me an email, claire, at blownforgoodcom, with the link to the item in the merch store you would like, and I will send you a giveaway link. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Perfect. And Lord Zinu, like I'm going to give you any merch, you have a whole line of merch, you don't Okay?
Speaker 2:Now we're going to do a special. Before available in bookstores near you, mike's paperback version of his book, and I will count three, two, one and randomly. Oh, I can't.
Speaker 4:I just bring up a comment and I'll grab it.
Speaker 2:Oh, do you just pick one. Okay, here you go.
Speaker 3:They're going by fast, wiggly.
Speaker 2:Woo Book. Thank you, love you all. Okay, wiggly Woo, send an email to me on my blog and let me know what your name is and your address and what you would like me to write in the book, and I will be forwarding it to you forthwith and immediately. Well, actually not, because I'm going out of town tomorrow, but I will do it.
Speaker 1:That's something to get some, or you're going to send them that one I'm going to send them this one.
Speaker 2:I've got like three or four here, so I'm going to send them this one.
Speaker 3:Nice Congratulations, wiggly Woo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got to sign it, I will.
Speaker 1:Wiggly Woo, make sure, wiggly Woo, what a great day. If you guys are watching on the Blown for Good channel, make sure you head over to Mike's channel and like or subscribe over there. And if you're watching on Mike's channel and come over here and do that. We try to get that. We don't not all of us in the YouTube world do this as our full-time job. Some of us do other things. So, as an incentive, it helps when you like and subscribe to the channel and all that good stuff and that gives us a reason to keep coming back and doing this, besides getting people out, which is also a very good incentive. I think we got everything. There was one, there's one more super chat.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to do it because I don't actually know the answer. Why do some famous vocal SPs such as Brisker they're talking about Mitch Brisker, who used to be a director hired by Scientology not have hate sites on them when others, such as this whole panel, do? They're too busy. I was just going to say they just don't have enough people to do all this stuff anymore. They also do have a they have.
Speaker 1:A little bit of a weird thing with Mitch is that he was, he wasn't in the C organization. So he didn't sign any of these documents that we signed, and I don't know that they want to. If I think if they, if he brought up any, if they brought up any dirt on him that they would have only would have been able to obtain in confessionals or things like that, it would sort of be like that's the only possibility that they did that to him, and I think they, I think people are going to see right through that, whereas we worked there for years and years and years and they know every single thing about us because we grew up in there. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't know, and are the site on us, the hate site on Mark and I at least has been up since like 2010 or 11.
Speaker 1:No, it was before the book came out, we had a hate site.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:So it's been up since like 2000. You know what? That's a good question. I think it came out when going clear came out, whenever that was, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that they're.
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, just updated it when the aftermath came out, but yeah, they template that they used for everybody.
Speaker 3:They can't keep up with everyone getting the heck out of Scientology to do hate sites on everybody yeah. Look at the many, many voices on YouTube. That's a whole lot of websites that they can't keep up with, which is amazing, and every voice counts. Every, every, every person in this space has is contributing to this effort, so amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to get like an SP level. Uh, chart that you could. You know, if you do a book you get fine.
Speaker 3:No, we don't. We don't need that.
Speaker 1:We show you this many points and then we should just tell Scientology these are the guys you need to work on. Not a word, we're, we're just having you. Oh, my goodness, I think I'm still on.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness, I think.
Speaker 1:I'm still going to say it, if you're doing it right. You got to hate site. Okay, I mean you're not doing it right, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:I just that's that's just loves his little slogan that he thought up, which is very funny, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you everybody who joined us today. If you're listening on the podcast, come over and you can see our ugly mugs over here on YouTube me and Mike, and then my beautiful wife over here.
Speaker 3:And you're watching on.
Speaker 1:YouTube and you do like to do these in the car, then you might want to go to the description. You can check out the podcast and all that good stuff. And actually I don't have to do this anymore because I got this fancy and dad and outro. So thanks for everybody who joined us today and we'll see you on the next one.
Speaker 3:Thanks everyone, bye.
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