Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Scientology Stories #47 - Sea Organization Q&A - What do Sea Org Members think of the "outside" world?
Have you ever wondered what it takes to leave one of the most secretive organizations in the world? Join Claire and me as we sit down with Katherine, a former Sea Org member who devoted 27 years of her life to Scientology's elite order, until her departure in 2021. From the early '90s to the present day, we compare our experiences and draw a vivid picture of how the Sea Org has transformed. Our conversation is enriched with live audience interactions, global shoutouts, and exciting giveaways, including a special surprise from Katherine Olsen herself.
We'll take you behind the scenes of significant moments that have rocked the Sea Org, such as Debbie Cook's explosive open letter and the Anonymous protests that shook the foundations of Scientology. Katherine shares her emotional journey of leaving the organization, recounting the intense battles with indoctrination and the manipulative tactics designed to keep members from escaping. We also delve into the harsh policies surrounding family planning, recruitment, and labor, providing a comprehensive look at life inside the Sea Org and the formidable obstacles faced by those trying to leave.
As we wrap up, we explore the evolving dynamics within Scientology, discussing event attendance statistics and the surprising acts of kindness experienced by ex-members in the outside world. Personal anecdotes and reflections on the internal scandals and labor practices reveal the significant barriers to leaving the Sea Org. With a speculative look at potential future leadership and a fun giveaway segment, this episode offers an eye-opening exploration of the Sea Org from multiple perspectives. Don't miss this comprehensive and compelling discussion that promises to enlighten and engage.
BFG Store - http://blownforgood-shop.fourthwall.com/
Blown For Good on Audible - https://www.amazon.com/Blown-for-Good-Marc-Headley-audiobook/dp/B07GC6ZKGQ/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Blown For Good Website: http://blownforgood.com/
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2131160
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blown-for-good-behind-the-iron-curtain-of-scientology/id1671284503
RSS: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2131160.rss
YOUTUBE PLAYLISTS:
Spy Files Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWtJfniWLwq4cA-e...
Hey guys, welcome to the channel. Welcome to another episode of the blown for good. We've got Claire here today, hello.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody. We've got Claire here today.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello everybody. We did a stream I want to say it was last week or the week before where we did a whole bunch of Sea Org, scientology, sea Organization questions and we got a real good response to that video and we had a lot of great questions. And Claire and I were talking and we thought it would be. We got a real good response to that video and we had a lot of great questions.
Speaker 2:And Claire and.
Speaker 1:I were talking and we thought it would be. We got a real good response. I had another video come up in my ears there and we basically were talking about it. We thought what if we had somebody who was in the Sea Org more recently and then we had questions for them so that we could kind of see what it was like from the time we were into the c org compared to more recent years in the c organization and um. To recap, claire and I were there from the early 1990s until 2005, so we've got about a 15 year c org experience sort of timeline to to know what was happening then. The person that we're going to have on today was in the Sea Org for 27 years, claire.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And they started in the Sea Org in Los Angeles very shortly after we did so.
Speaker 1:They were also there from the early 90s, but they didn't leave the Sea Org until 2021.
Speaker 1:So they have a much longer time span in the Sea Organization and so we're going to get to that in a little bit and once that person shows up for the stream, then we'll start doing that. And we've got a lot of great questions we posted on our community page and the questions that were on our community page on YouTube the ones that were voted the highest those are the ones that we're going to do. So we're going to get to that in a few minutes and we like to do a little thing here on the channel where we have people. Tell us in the comments where you're watching from today and then, if you also add the hashtag BFG into your comment, you will automatically be entered into some giveaways. There are people that donate to the channel and they donate for people to get merch giveaways, so there'll be a link in the description. If you want to check out some of the merch on the Blown for Good website, you can do that, but at the end of the stream we have what's the amount we have for today, claire.
Speaker 2:So we have four giveaways for today and we have a very special giveaway which we'll let our guest announce on arrival.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, good.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Perfect, okay, great. So let's pull up some of the comments and see where some of we've got. We've got some usual suspects. I'll put them up. You read them, okay, claire.
Speaker 2:Sounds good, I'm in.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:All right. Jacob Harky, hello from Southern California. Hi, jacob, Hope you are doing well and I hope you're enjoying your SP bracelet. Scientology Audit Ottawa BFG. Hello from Ottawa. Awesome Thanks for being here. Melanie Johnson, west Virginia, valeska, truax BFG Yay hashtag BFG Math Geek. Just finished listening to you read your bookmark, so well done.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Carrie Bemis from Cleveland, ohio, so happy to catch you live. Thanks for being here, carrie, I appreciate it. Carrie Bemis, from Cleveland, ohio, so happy to catch you live. Thanks for being here, carrie, we appreciate it. Shanwow, atlanta, georgia, nice, rusty from San Francisco Bay area Jan is your man. Aloha from Solingen, germany, I'm probably botched that. Lillian M SoCal here, mode on, yay Rosavasquez. Greetings from North Wales, nice. Wow, it's awesome. Ravenella, west Yorkshire, england, awesome, jerome PG. Hello from Chicago. Hello, heather Peterman. Greetings from Louisiana. Shay Anderson Hi, mark and Claire. Me from Cape Girardeau, missouri. Hi, shay, long time no see. Nancy Reha, bfg, vegas, nevada. Hello, denver, stevo. Greetings from wherever I am. I hope you are where you are too. We sure are. Moon Age Daydream. Hey from South Wales, nice, wales, representing.
Speaker 2:I know England representing today. Yes, Boom, stephanie. Hashtag AFC haven't been here in a while. Hashtag England Yay, my home country. Paintbox Tunes hi from Yorkshire. Yeah, seriously Awesome. Howard Taylor Esquire. Hello from Dartmoor in England, uk, the wild west of England. Well, there you go. Helen Adamo greetings.
Speaker 1:Northern Alabama. Nice, nice, that's awesome. Yeah, that's great oh.
Speaker 2:Clearwater Chad's even here. There you go, clearwater Chad. Lupita T from Texas. Hi, lupita Gloria Calderon. Hi from Houston. Texas, awesome, texas represent. Hey from Philly. Hey all Gretchen, philly, awesome, we did that one. Heather Peterman, hello again from Louisiana.
Speaker 1:Cool. We got a lot of people here from a lot of places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, merrimack, new Hampshire Awesome. Hi, mark George, foreigner here from Kerala, india, looking in. Awesome. India, wow.
Speaker 1:Hello from Twin Cities, minnesota. Wow, there's a lot of people from a lot of places here today. It's great. Yeah, that's great. What was the other thing we were going to talk about? We said we got the four giveaways.
Speaker 1:At the end we did go through all the questions that everybody posted and whichever ones were the most upvoted ones, we picked those questions for today's guest. Some of the questions some people put like five questions in their comment and that was the most updated comment. So we picked the one that was less similar to other people's questions. So there'd be multiple people who had questions and I think from all the ones that we have, we have 11 questions that we're going to be able to ask the person and then Claire and I actually are going to ask those a few questions ourselves before we get into the viewer questions, because we generally we basically thought of things that oh well, these would be good questions that maybe other people would want to hear as well, but that we know from both. You know kind of like a then and now of the Sea Org. But oh my gosh, we just had a whole bunch more people come in and comment here.
Speaker 2:Nice Road to Freedom. Hi, mark and Claire, uk here. Yay, boom, I love it. Jennifer Arnold, hello from Mississippi. Hello, matt Denny in the house. Hey, all, I made it just in time to catch it live. Hi from sunny Norfolk, england, yay.
Speaker 1:A lot of people from England today.
Speaker 2:Yes, and hi salty beach girl Lori, in the house she says miss your faces so much. Good to see you here, lori. Thank you, there you go yeah.
Speaker 1:Here's another good one here, kansas.
Speaker 2:Yep, hello from the land of Oz, kansas. Ray Wolf, my first time in the chat. Awesome, thanks for being here. Holger Reiter, sweden, here, nice, I love it. Mary Kay London, hi from Albuquerque. Hello from Finland. Wow, boom, wow, bum yeah, that's very cool.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I think all the rest of these are some of their. Some people are putting questions in the comments right now. We pretty much locked up all the comments there, though yeah, I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll try and keep an eye on that while we go here and if we have time at the end we can add a.
Speaker 1:Sure, I don't know if we covered some of these, but I had them starred, so I'll put it up.
Speaker 2:Yep, we did. Jamie from St George, utah. Hello from Portugal. Hello Nice, what a long, strange trip it's been. Hi from DC Awesome, yeah, long, strange trip indeed. Holy moly Nancy Reha, hi from Vegas awesome, yeah, long, strange trip indeed. Holy moly nancy rehab, hi from vegas yeah, this is this person.
Speaker 1:Salty beach girl laurie is from saskatchewan, babe saskatchewan.
Speaker 2:My brain reads it differently, as we all know can you?
Speaker 1:just I don't remember how you said it again Can you go?
Speaker 2:ahead. Oh gosh, you really were going to do this, saskatchewan.
Speaker 1:Julia Bettencourt knew that one was coming. Yeah, oh, my goodness, I that was a that was a long time ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was. That was in in uh, when Amy and I were doing the Scientology Weekly Updates, which was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, and also Casey's here.
Speaker 2:Oh, yay, casey in the house. Cassie Mark for everyone who is missing the context hey, hedleys from Jacksonville, florida, I'll probably have to be on replay crew. Stupid work always gets in the way I can relate. Hashtag BFG Well, we appreciate you stopping in, thank you.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, here we go you've mentioned me before.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Stephanie, Appreciate it. No one believes that I'm from England anymore because I lost my accent so completely. But I am from Manchester, England. So there you have it, folks.
Speaker 1:Nice, okay, we'll do one last one here.
Speaker 2:Okay, spikers, be Americans pronouncing Saskatoon, saskatchewan. Saskatchewan is funny, but I'm Calgary here, oh boy.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, this is it. I said the last one on the last one, but this is the last one, oh.
Speaker 2:Degraded Daughter, nice to see you here. Hey Claire and Mark, nice to see you all live. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Nice, okay, perfect. So yeah, let's get into it. Welcome to the stream Catherine Christensen. Catherine, we hear you, we see you, you there.
Speaker 2:Can you hear us, Catherine?
Speaker 3:Yay, I was trying to fix my mic. Can you hear me okay?
Speaker 1:We can hear you.
Speaker 3:Does it sound like I'm actually on a real microphone?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know, talk into it. We'll see if it gets louder.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's whatever other microphone you have.
Speaker 2:but that's fine, you can still switch it while we're getting things ready here, yeah, while you adjust your settings, mark will give the summary and we can launch into this what no doubt will be a very interesting conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Catherine joined the Sea Organization in 1992 in Los Angeles and she worked there in Los Angeles from 1992 to 2019. And in October of 2019, she was sent to Columbus, ohio, and one of the things that Sea Org's doing more recently is because they don't have enough staff members in these locations, that they're opening these ideal organizations. They need a certain amount of people to run one of these organizations and they've been sending Sea Org members to these organizations and Catherine, and they've been sending Sea Org members to these organizations and Catherine. So Catherine was out there in Columbus from 2019. And then she escaped from the Sea Organization in June 2021.
Speaker 1:And that's where our sort of stories meet up. I want to say, the whole time I was in the Sea Org, I may have seen Catherine maybe 20 or 30 times when we would go down to Los Angeles, the shoot crew would go down to Los Angeles and shoot uh films and videos down in Los Angeles, and that's when I would see Catherine down there. But um, we, we wanted to ask you some questions, catherine, before we went into the comment questions. Did you get your microphone all sorted?
Speaker 3:I think so yeah.
Speaker 1:We can hear you fine, Okay fine, fine, whatever.
Speaker 3:It just annoys me because I have this microphone and if it doesn't work, then I just why have it here?
Speaker 1:It's okay, we can hear you fine. If people in the comments aren't able to hear you, they can let us know, but I think we can hear you fine, I can hear you fine. If people in the comments aren't able to hear you, they can let us know. But I think we can hear you. Fine, I can hear you.
Speaker 3:Oh good.
Speaker 1:So one of the questions. Go ahead, claire. Why don't you ask some of the questions that we were thinking of when we were talking before this?
Speaker 2:Yes, the question we were talking about was what did some of the event like? What did you know about some of the significant events that were taking place after we got out, for example in 2008,? There was a lot of anonymous protests, and then we also wondered what if you had knowledge of any of the lawsuits that were going on during those years?
Speaker 3:The lawsuits were kept very much under wraps, so we didn't really hear about those. We definitely heard about the whole Debbie Cook thing. Actually, I heard about it because I tended to have my my intel in a little bit better than than than some people did.
Speaker 2:But um and sorry so. So, backing up for a minute, this was, I think, december 2012, when Debbie Cook sent an open letter to all Scientologists exposing her experiences, the abuses that she was subjected to, and so forth. So what were you told or what information did you get about that?
Speaker 3:Well, I was in, let's see, okay, so that was 2012,. Right, so, trying to remember, I was somehow. I was somehow standing in the middle of, uh, what was called external communications at the time when, um, the guy who was, who was in senior hco, responsible for all communications internationally I don't know how else to describe it, but he was, he was, he had this, this post title, where he was, right, supposedly responsible for, like, all telex systems, all everything in every org, right, and, and he was actually sending out, uh, some sort of telex or briefing or something to every single org. And it was immediately after debbie cook had sent her email.
Speaker 1:It was probably within hours and just to be clear, debbie Cook was an executive who worked in Clearwater at that giant facility that they have there in Florida and it's called the Flag Service Organization, and she was the captain of the Flag Service Organization.
Speaker 1:And so any Scientologists that had gone all the way up the bridge to total freedom, to the OT-7 and the OT-8s and these higher operating Thetan levels they were all very familiar with. Debbiecavige was torturing Sea Org members and these sort of things. It was coming from a person that they trusted that that person would be telling us the truth and what had happened was she had connected up with some of us ex-Scientology Sea Org members and between a bunch of people that had left. They had a mailing list of all of the top Scientologists in the world and so Debbie Cook wrote an open letter to them and this email, I want to say it, went out to several thousand of these highest of highest Scientology people that paid money to do Scientology and it was a big, big flap and it was sent out on New Year's Eve.
Speaker 1:And we were actually at a New Year's Eve party that was being held by an ex-Seer member and there was probably 20 ex-Seer members at this thing and we were sort of, hey, do you have a? How many names do you have? Oh, I've got, I have 800 OTAs. What do you got? Oh, I've got a 2000 OTAs. And so we were all kind of put it. We were basically gaming this list together and then we were like what's this for? And like Debbie Cook's going to send an email out and like, oh, cool, let's see how this goes. So this was all happening real time on New Year's, that New Year's Eve, and then the next morning it was everywhere. All these things were happening.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, so go ahead. So did you read what the message that was being sent out?
Speaker 3:I never got a chance. I didn't get a chance to see it until many years later. So I was out and I was like, oh yeah, the Debbie. I wonder what the Debbie Cook email actually said. So that I looked it up and I got to read it. But I heard about it because, like I said, I was standing in the middle of what we called external calm.
Speaker 1:Was that in the basement? Yeah?
Speaker 3:it's not in the basement, it's on the first floor If you go in the Ivar entrance where the protesters usually hang out. The turtle palm is right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reason it's that way too is because that's where all of the traffic from international management, from the Int base it comes in and it gets sorted there and then it goes out to the rest of the building.
Speaker 2:And, to be clear, by traffic we don't mean cars, we mean pieces, communications.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anything. Any dispatches or paperwork or telexes or emails, anything sent or received in the Sea Org is referred to as traffic. If you got traffic from COB, that means you got a dispatch from him or you got some sort of communication from him.
Speaker 3:Well, you know the, the, the slang they use now between, like the CMO people and external common stuff. If they have something from COB, they just say I have traffic.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:I have traffic.
Speaker 1:There was a time period when David Miscavige was yeah, when David Miscavige was being accused of running the Sea Org hey Kat.
Speaker 2:Kitty, kitty when.
Speaker 1:David Miscavige was being accused of running the Sea Org. He didn't want people to refer to him as Captain David Miscavige or COB, and so it came from command or this is command intention, or department 21. So he had lots of code names within the Sea Org. So if you said department 21, that meant David Miscavige, and everybody knew that. Same thing with command, or you know whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, department 21,. Command, yeah, usually they said department 21,. But the communications people would always say I have traffic and I was like it was a big deal.
Speaker 2:So, anyway.
Speaker 3:So I was there. So I was there and I just remember the reason I was there because I was like 2012,. I was in the kitchen by then. What was I doing in external comm and I was trying to remember and I actually forgot that they actually.
Speaker 3:So, before I was in the kitchen, I was in the data bureau, data branch, which is the, which is the, the, the part of management which receives like all the reports and dispatches and like all any sort of paper, electronic whatever, from every single org. They organize it up, they index it, they, they like sort it so you can see it. They have like a file on every single org. It's just, it's a ridiculous amount of of admin. It's just, it's utterly ridiculous. So I was there because so I was in data before I went to the galley, before I got kicked out of data. And I went to the galley and in 2012 they actually the the data. People were like um, so this person went on project and and you're the only person, you're the only person who knows how to do this, and so we want you to come and cover for them for for half the day, every day, even though I was posted in the kitchen. They had me come in the afternoon working data in data, so that's why I was at ExtroCom at the time.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Wow yeah.
Speaker 1:What about the anonymous protests? When you were in the Sea Org, you saw that too, right?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and they were at Hollywood Boulevard, they were at the Complex, they were everywhere are there at the complex they were everywhere they, they, they protested me at one point at the and in the uk there's a alex somebody sent me a sign. I think alex sent me a sign, a sign of the uh picture of one of the protesters hanging up some hey with a sign with my name on it, from the uk from when was that?
Speaker 1:was that 2009 right? 2008, 2009, yeah yeah, when anonymous was protesting. Your mom and your sister had come to an anonymous protest and then your mother wrote a letter to um, to scientology, and mark bunker read that letter at a, at a, at a press conference that we were doing with him at the I think it was called the Center for Inquiry on Sunset, yep, and and we did. We did a press conference with a whole bunch of ex-Scientologists and Mark Bunker read the letter that your mom had sent to Scientology. So that's right.
Speaker 3:And then you remembered her name. You remembered her name when we finally, when we finally connected.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, and that's how we found out who you were, before you told us who you were. Okay, but then there was one other thing. What did we? What was the other thing that we saw? Oh, you saw one of Phil Jones. Call me billboard.
Speaker 3:That's right. When you were in the Sea Org. That's why I was swearing that there was one near ASI, but then he told me recently that there wasn't, and I'm like what did I see?
Speaker 1:It was down by KCET, where there was one.
Speaker 3:Maybe that was the one that I saw.
Speaker 1:But when that happened, what did you think Like? Why would somebody be putting a little markup?
Speaker 3:I was just. I was I mean, I thought about my mom, of course, because I was disconnected from her at that point, but I was just. It made me feel I don't even know how to explain it Like I was like why are people doing this? Like why are they? Why are they doing this? This is so like why are they harassing the sewer members? Like that's kind of what I thought.
Speaker 1:But you did think of your mom. Oh yeah, I was going to say the same thing, Of course.
Speaker 3:I was like because it says to my Scientology child or whatever, please call me. And I was like, oh no, go away, Stop it. Wow, it's like I feel so bad.
Speaker 1:I think that's exactly what the billboard's supposed to do. I think it's supposed to make you think about your parents.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's so simple too.
Speaker 1:Wow Okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's crazy. Do you have any?
Speaker 1:other questions. Claire for her, before we get into the meaty ones from the comments get into the big, the, the, the meaty ones from the comments.
Speaker 2:I guess my question for you, catherine, which you know we've, of course, we've had many conversations, but we haven't done this particular deep dive we will link to the the escape interview that we did with you and then the Scientology story. So if people want to listen to those more in depth as to your experiences, that would be great. I guess my question is when would you say that cracks started to form for you and what? What brought that on?
Speaker 3:OK, so cracks really started to form. I still have to say it was when they took my cell phone. That's a big deal. That's a huge deal to tell somebody on the outside that something like that is happening and speak about it critically.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, let me put this. Let me see if I've got this right here. If I add this here, one of these is going to be the one there. There we one.
Speaker 1:There, there we go, awesome so this is the first question was from Super Anxiety Chick 7035. Wow, I can't believe there were that many Super Anxiety Chicks that she had to pick 7035. Anyway, what was the thing that started cracks in your beliefs and ending in leaving eventually. So that was it. They took your cell phone. Then you talk to somebody on the outside how long between when they took that cell phone and you had contacted that person when was that, Like? What? What time period was that Was that? Did it happen in June, when you left? No, I'm saying from when you, from when you that crack started happening to when you left.
Speaker 3:Oh to, when I left, it was exactly one year. Wow, it was exactly one year. Yeah, it was June. Yeah, like, or actually it was, it was no, it was a year, and like two days.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, so you started. So that, so three days.
Speaker 3:I'm being corrected.
Speaker 1:John's sitting right here, hi john so so basically, from the time that that happened where you started going what am I doing here to getting out, it was about a year, so that's a good thing to know that, like even once you do something, it could take a little while for that kind of.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I think it could take even more because, see, I was I. I had the good fortune to be able to talk to this, this incredible guy over here you keep referencing me.
Speaker 1:He's going to have to show his face eventually. The cat's going to Just saying.
Speaker 3:He's trying to be quiet, he's trying not to scream as the cat rugs up him, which he's done like three times now. Okay, god, I forgot the question. I'm sorry. No, we were talking about the length of time.
Speaker 1:A lot of these questions will kind of lead to the next one, so we'll just go to the next one.
Speaker 2:So well, hold on hold on. So one question. So, catherine, during the 27 years that you were in, you never escaped and then were brought back right.
Speaker 3:No, okay, I thought about it. I thought about it Once. I almost did it. When was that? That was in 2006.
Speaker 2:Oh, so there were already cracks a long time before that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but what I didn't do this time, or I didn't do it as much, is okay. So when there was a little bit of wonderings and whatever before then, but what I didn't do this time, or I didn't do it as much is, is okay. So when there was a little bit of wonderings and whatever before, then I would always be like, oh well, I just have overts, I just have, I just need to write up my overts and withholds. And it's just me. I need to get on the rails, I need to handle myself, blah, blah, blah. It's just me.
Speaker 2:And I would kind of, I would handle myself or handle myself Right. And of course, that's the Scientology indoctrination, where you get to the point where you're doing the work yourself mentally of keeping you in, which just reinforces the physical barriers to escaping.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Because the other time where I was I was seriously I was thinking about it was when I had been sent back to do the, the, the bootcamp, EPF thing, Right, and they sent me to do it. And they sent me, they said okay. So I saw somebody in the evening and they're like you're going to go do this again. I'm like okay, fine, whatever. And I was supposed to just go the next day and report in, Right, and it was in a different building, different base, everything, and so I packed all my stuff and I was like walking to the pack base from the, from the birthing, which was like a 15 minute walk or something, and the whole time I was walking there I was like you know, I could just turn down any of these streets and just walk away and just, you know, screw it, I could do that. I thought about that. Every street I passed I was like I could just go. No, I shouldn't. No, that's not, that's not right. No, I'm just off the road. No, don't do it. And I and I didn't, Wow, Okay.
Speaker 1:So the next one is from DJ. It says what was your tipping point, Final straw that led to escaping? How long had you been planning it for being able to leave?
Speaker 3:So that it for being able to leave. So that was basically a year, yeah, and I wasn't really playing and I and and during that time I wasn't really doing any like planning per se. I was just like, okay, yeah, I think I want to go, should I route out or should I just, or should I blow, or should I like route out the right way and, like you know, do the sec check and say I, I want to go, I need to do conditions and all that shit, and I was trying to decide if I was going to do that or not.
Speaker 1:And let's just make it clear If you're in the C organization and you say that you want to leave, you have to submit to interrogations and confess to every possible thing that you've ever done in the C, so that they have a record of everything bad you've done, so that if you turn on them they can say well, you did all these bad things, that's why you left. And also they try to convince you to stay during all of those interrogations and every action that you have to do leading to your leave is designed to make you stay. So it's called the staff member leaving, or was it leaving? Staff member routing form.
Speaker 3:Leaving staff routing form.
Speaker 2:LSRF. That's exactly what I was just going to say. There's an abbreviation for everything in Scientology.
Speaker 1:So that person has to go see all these different people on a checklist. It's called a routing form. It routes you to each person that you're supposed to see, and each of those people have a bunch, a series of steps that they're supposed to do with you and they're designed in a gradient fashion to make you want to stay, so um and I think that's even stated on the routing form as the purpose of the routing form.
Speaker 2:You know every routing form. As you said, it was a checklist of people you had to go see, things you had to do and had to get signed off on, but every single one of those had a stated purpose at the top.
Speaker 3:And I always said something like to standardly route the person through blah, blah, blah blah with the end product of. You know, I used to be the senior routing forms in charge, international. Wow, when I post when I was in New York.
Speaker 1:And for anyone wondering it's the ultimate bureaucracy. There's a routing form for everything you do, and there's even a person who's in charge of the routing. Right, that's right. Let's do the next one.
Speaker 2:Like, even if you want to take a leave of absence, there's a routing form for that. Yeah, yeah, so this one, you kind of answered as well.
Speaker 1:This is from Dwight Schrute, 23, 23. Hey, Dwight, how long did you weigh whether or not to leave? So you're saying that was about a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it sounds like there were also earlier time periods. There were earlier times.
Speaker 3:But then I just kind of like go like, okay, I'm just going to get back on purpose. You know, yeah, and I never and that's the thing too is I never told anybody when I had those kinds of thoughts Because I'm like I don't want to go down that route because then it's just going to be like you have doubts of the Sea Org and blah, blah, blah. They make you do conditions or they calm you or whatever, and put you through a whole thing and it's going to be on. It'll be like basically on your record for like the rest of eternity. Oh right, you'll have doubts on the Sea Org, Like you want to like switch your job or whatever. You still have doubts on the Sea.
Speaker 2:Org yes, and it was a disqualification for executive posts. That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you wanted to be an executive in Scientology or the Sea Organization?
Speaker 3:Or if you wanted to go to Int.
Speaker 1:Or if you wanted to go to the international headquarters. If you have ever had thoughts of leaving the Sea Organization, you're automatically disqualified.
Speaker 3:And I wanted to go to Int. I wanted to go to Gold and work on the shoot crew with Mark.
Speaker 1:Yeah, of course I know who Dwight Schrute is. Somebody saying in the comments so cute. Mark doesn't know who Dwight is. It's from the office. Thank you very much, george.
Speaker 3:Okay, I just I mean.
Speaker 1:I, I I finished my my.
Speaker 3:I finished my Breaking Bad indoctrination or introduction a few years ago. I'm not into the office yet, Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. Catherine does not know who Dwight Schrute is. No, let's make a note of that, and very most likely Claire has no idea who Dwight Schrute is as well, you called it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I haven't watched the Office either.
Speaker 1:I'm working on. Mayor of Kingstown. Okay, let's do the next one, Paul the die-cast guy.
Speaker 3:Was it difficult to get out? Was it difficult to get out? Well, for me. How do you answer that?
Speaker 2:I have an answer while you think about that. For me it was walked away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 2:But for me, when you were, you had decided, and I sent you your boarding pass the day before for me, like, every moment of that day was 100% hair raising. That's my answer of your day. So now you get to answer.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'll go from there then. So ever since you sent me from the, from the minute you sent me the boarding pass to to when I actually arrived in Colorado, got off the plane, it was was. That was really hard, that was, that was mentally and emotionally very, very, very hard emotionally very, very, very hard so to actually do it.
Speaker 1:I mean, you were there for 27 years, so getting you to leave all that and get on a plane and come to some people who you haven't seen in 10 or 15, 14 years or whatever, and and that we've been on the outside of that bubble, on the exact wrong side of the bubble compared to where you were wrong.
Speaker 3:It's a quote, unquote wrong.
Speaker 1:I remember, if anybody wants, we have. We've done at least two or three videos with Catherine on our channel where we do tell her escape story, and then we also I think we did at least one or two episodes Claire did with you of Scientology stories, just different stories about stuff. We'll put a link to those in the description if you want to get the in-depth blow-by-blow of when she escaped and some of the other stories and everything.
Speaker 2:Yes, flying across and I did want to mention too congratulations, catherine, on starting your own channel. That's amazing, and we will link to that as well in the description of this video.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm streaming this on my channel. I don't know if it's actually working one.
Speaker 1:It's from coffee char question. Did you know people were trying to assist scientologists and I can't see what it says getting out
Speaker 3:it's getting out, getting out.
Speaker 1:Yep, give me, give me one second, okay yep, no problem katherine's trying to figure out, I think, um, I think we have to do that beforehand. If she wanted to stream it to her channel, maybe no no, no, it works. Okay, good, awesome, nice. So did you know people were trying to assist Scientologists and get? Oh, she's going to leave. I think we'll put some comments up. We got Dr X in the house.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Hi Dr X, hi, dr Paul, thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Hope everyone is well. You're muted, Catherine.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, we're going to put up.
Speaker 3:Oh, there we go. No see, I I messed this up. I messed this up because I thought we were starting at two. I was going to show John how to be my moderator. I messed the whole thing up. I had a whole it's all good.
Speaker 2:It's okay.
Speaker 1:Did you know people were trying to assist Scientologists in getting out when you were in New York?
Speaker 3:Yes, well, I knew that. So when the whole thing blew up with my mom and she came to LA and she was trying to get me to leave and blah, blah, blah, right. So after that happened and I talked to people from OSA I mean, I used to talk to Kirsten like several times a week, external external security chief osa and who's in charge of all this crazy stuff um, she told me that it was, uh, it was one of the tactics. One of the tactics that was being used to try to get people out of the c org was to uh, attack scientology and and do press releases and stuff so you could turn okay. So this is a gonna take a lot of explanation, but it was. It was to turn like a uh, so they call you a potential trouble source.
Speaker 3:If you have someone, if you have a friend or especially a family member who's, um, not agreeing with Scientology, trying to get you out, trying to talk you into getting out, or even just like Scientology sucks, I don't want to have anything to do with it. You're a potential trouble source, and they have different classes of potential trouble source and one of them is people whose family are like rabidly attacking Scientology, right, and what it says to do is you're supposed to get them off staff. You're supposed to kick those people off staff. They're not supposed to have anything to do with Scientology. But they started not doing that because they're so desperate for members and so desperate for SEERG members. So they started not doing that so much and they started doing it less when jenna miscavige was attacking scientology. And what are they going to do? Kick out david miscavige because his niece is attacking scientology. And I was even wondering that myself. I'm like well, what's he going to do? Is he not qualified now, like I was?
Speaker 1:you know what k? No one has ever brought that up before. If you're in the Sea Org and you have a relative that is attacking Scientology, you get raked over the coals. You can get beat up because one of your family members is attacking Scientology.
Speaker 2:And you would get removed from your job. He's type C.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his father, his brother, his, what, his niece, niece, his, I mean a lot Isn't his sister like a criminal or something. His twin sister is a convicted criminal. Not only his niece, he has multiple nephews who've also lost the left Scientology and the Sea Org and attacked Scientology. So David Miscavige and L Ron Hubbard may have the most amount of family members that have attacked Scientology than any other Scientologist or Sea Org member.
Speaker 3:They're not qualified to be in Scientology anymore. No one has ever connected to Scientology.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:They're definitely not qualified for an executive position.
Speaker 3:Or any services or any auditing. They're not qualified for any auditing.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Okay, next question.
Speaker 2:Which, by the way, to me that just proves the point. You know we're always asked does David Miscavige believe in Scientology or does he not? This conversation right here documents that he does not believe in Scientology. He's definitely not doing what is written in regards to how you handle somebody who's PTS because of someone attacking Scientology in their family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I should correct my statement Tom Cruise also has a lot of relatives and ex-wives that are also in Scientology. That's fair, that's fair. It is a weird thing, if you think about it, that the people that are most famous or the highest in Scientology all don't apply Scientology to their situation. They don't use communication to sort out their family, or you know. It is just a weird, kind of crazy thing. The next comment is from 321. Spirit says what statement do you feel would help current Scientology members that are thinking about leaving?
Speaker 3:I was thinking about this when I saw this question. And what statement. Okay, she's being way too bouncy, I'm sorry. I was thinking about this when I saw this question. And what statement. Okay, she's being way too bouncy, I'm sorry. What statement.
Speaker 1:Like what, what information? Like it was what things planted seeds in your like even though they took your phone and then you started talking. But like when you were talking with John in the outside world and you told him hey, they took my phone. He he said that's illegal. They can't take something that's yours, that you paid for with your money. They can't take it, especially if it's a device that allows you to communicate with the outside world. It's illegal for them. I mean, was that like? Was it him saying they're doing things that are illegal, like they're violating your rights?
Speaker 3:as a citizen. I got it. I got it. The thing that helped the most was comparing it to an abusive relationship.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Nice and really, but really carefully, really carefully comparing it and not just saying, oh, they're abusing you, you're an abusive relationship. It was, like you know, in an abusive relationship, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, this is what happens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And paralleling it to what's happening in the Sea Org. Or also, you know, when he said something like when people are trafficked, this is what happens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like what happens in the Sea Org. Like you know, you get moved around without your consent or you're made to work, like these ridiculous hours where you can't even think about doing anything else because you're too tired and in pain from working so much that you can't even think about leaving, which is how I felt a lot of the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're basically overworking you, that your mental facilities aren't strong enough for you to make a big decision like that, because you're basically in apathy mentally, you're just beaten down, so you're not going to be. You know, and, and also, to be fair, if you did leave it's where do I go? How do I get a job? What? So?
Speaker 3:there's all that that's also playing in the background is I'm going to have nothing and no one and my family I don't even know if I'm going to be able to go to my family, because that bridge already got burned with them 15 years ago or you know, whatever it is yeah, exactly, because either you have family that are in Scientology or in the Sea Org and you're like, well, I'm not going to tell any of them, because then I'll just get reported on or lose them or whatever, or you have people that are not in and you're like, how do I explain that?
Speaker 3:Like I don't, I'm not ready to just go to that. Like that's how I thought I'm like I wasn't ready to just go to, like run to my family and be like, can you help me? It's like people I had to talk to in like so many years, except for, like, my 92 year old grandmother. You know, I'm like I'm not gonna go ask my 92 year old grandmother if she can help me get out of seahore. Like no, I no, that's, that's too much for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that the isolation and the lack of known resources to Sea Org members on the inside is a huge barrier. I mean, even for me, even when, mark, when you escaped, I had no idea how I was going to contact you, and and I you know, I I came up with various plans but ultimately I realized I couldn't do it without help from the outside. So I think for a Sea Org member to learn that there is help and learn that there is hope is huge. And I think even just asking, asking a Sea Org member questions like well, are you happy with your life right now? Are you, are you at peace with not having any contact with your family? You know, asking questions, I think is a good way to just start the the, the plant the seed and start the process of well, am I happy? Am I free? Am I doing what I set out to do with, with my life? You know things like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally, Totally. That was one of the things for me. I'm just like, I'm just not happy here. That's why I was first thinking of not first thinking of leaving, but that's that's what contributed a lot to me. Wanting to go was simply that. I'm like, I'm just personally not happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally Okay, let's do the next one From Diana Romo 728. Has the Church of Scientology changed its stance on Sea Org members having children, now that Scientology's numbers are dwindling?
Speaker 3:No, having children, now that Scientology's numbers are dwindling, no, and in fact, okay. So there's been. There's been several kind of phases of this through the years, like and different things that get done, like, like, as people know, you know they, they like let's be very careful about the words we.
Speaker 1:We will say terminate a pregnancy, we will not say the other word.
Speaker 3:Oh, I get it Okay. So so if somebody gets pregnant they're encouraged to end that. They're encouraged to. That used to be like the standard operating basis, Like, yeah, you need to go get rid of that.
Speaker 1:And this is for Sea Org members that are married and that have relations. If they become pregnant or the female becomes pregnant, then the female is encouraged to do that. And then how did that change? So that used to be the way it was when we were there and girls went to the clinic all the time, and sometimes there was one clinic I think it was the clinic in Riverside near the international base that when the medical officer would bring people there, she would bring a van of girls there and they would do all of them in one trip, and the clinic was like this is not. This is really inappropriate that you're bringing a van of people here to do this. Yeah, and to add to that by is not this is really inappropriate that you're bringing a van of people here to do?
Speaker 2:this. Yeah, and to add to that, by the way, before we escaped there was a woman that worked at that Riverside clinic who spoke out about this, and she actually participated in a German documentary that was being done to expose Scientology abuses, and thereafter they switched to a different clinic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So, but then what is the next phase? Cause I know of a phase I heard of, so if you don't say that, I'll say that.
Speaker 3:But the next phase was okay, if you're. If you're pregnant, then we're going to and you're in the Sea Org, then we're going to send you to a class five org with your kid and then you can come back when your kid is old enough.
Speaker 2:And so I have a question about that, because there was a document that alleged, even during the time that we were there, that that was an option. That was just never an option that was enforced. But what I recall it saying was that a Sea Org member would be sent to a lower organization that was not Sea Org, and when the child turned six years old was when they would be brought back.
Speaker 3:It was six years old. It was six years old for a little while, then I think it changed to 10 years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it also wasn't a. It wasn't a lower organization. It specifically said it had to be a small failing organization.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that You're right.
Speaker 1:And what had happened was they were sending Sea Org members to Los Angeles organization or the San Diego one and these other ones. And what ended up happening was Sea Org members figured out if we have a kid, we can just go somewhere nice where we don't have to work all day and all night, we can just work on a part time schedule. And then what happened was it was like no, this is no longer going to happen. The policy says a small, failing organization. So instead of going to a place that was like they could get some cushy job and just come in for a few hours each day, they'd have to go to, you know, ottawa, and there's eight people on staff there and they're, like now, the executive director of that organization, not some, you know, busy work thing.
Speaker 3:So you know, I was replaced in Portland by two people, like by a couple, like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, portland would be considered a small failing organization. I think I don't know Portland whatever, what time or when it was, but then there was. I've heard and correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard. Now I'm trying to couch this Okay, we&a with about the Sea Org. We have helped other people. Recently One of these people told me that now they're just making the dudes get snipped, they're not even worried.
Speaker 3:So I needed to finish the next phases.
Speaker 1:Okay, perfect yeah let's do that.
Speaker 3:So the next phases were so they stopped doing that at one point I don't remember when they stopped doing it. I think they stopped doing it because everyone who they did it to ended up.
Speaker 1:When you say did it, I don't know what you're talking about sending to the org, or are you talking about the snippet, those? Are two very different things. Going to Ottawa and getting snipped are not on the same agenda, unless you're going to Ottawa to get snipped are not on the same agenda unless you're going to ottawa to get.
Speaker 3:So they stopped. They stopped sending um seorg members to lower orgs, class five orgs. They stopped doing that and I think the reason they stopped doing it was because they would send people and they would just leave staff and just disappear. That's what happened to the two people that replaced me. They left so they weren't sticking to it. So, excuse me, um, so yeah, so the next phase was art or maybe kind of happening at the same time was was encouraged to terminate and and your husband better get snipped so it doesn't happen again. Wow, this is what happened to Bea Bea Mood. I don't know if you guys remember her. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:The Aftermath Foundation helped her too, oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:That's what happened to her and her husband Wow.
Speaker 1:So basically in the end, so the answer to the question is no, they don't. They still don't want no no, no, hold on.
Speaker 3:No, they haven't changed their stance. Okay, so then the last. Okay, so the the most recent one is okay, you're just, you're just going to leave. You guys are just leaving. You're, you're no longer qualified for the c-org, you're gonna leave, bye if they get pregnant now yeah yeah, okay yeah
Speaker 3:yeah they don't, I don't, I can't say oh, they're not encouraging people to terminate pregnancies, because they probably still are. And I know somebody in 2004, um, who's a friend of mine, who's now out of the Sea Org for different reasons, who got pregnant and it was accident and she's like, oh my God, I don't want to leave, I don't want to leave. And so she terminated on her, like she decided herself, but she really she felt awful after that. She felt so bad and she just she ended up leaving. She ended up leaving the Seahawks, like I don't know, it was probably like six years later or something, but she's just like this was awful.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't have done this 2012 was the time period that our lawsuit was pending, and one of the causes of action in our lawsuit was forced termination, and, as one of the documents that we submitted as part of that was a list that I compiled of 56 women that I personally knew had been forced to go through that, including some of those three women in particular that had been forced to do it four to six times. And so it's just interesting to, and obviously it's an absolute abominable practice that you would never expect from an alleged quote unquote church, which it just proves that they're not. They're a cult. They control, they dominate, they leverage people, but it's, it's even. I mean, how crazy is it that they're saying, oh, come back into the C organization with a six year old child or a 10 year oldyear-old child, even that my youngest son is 11. Are you kidding me? No way does any child belong in a toxic, destructive environment like that. I'm just saying, anyway, not to go off on a soapbox, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the answer is they don't and this is a very good question that comes up all the time is if they are losing members and they can't get new members. That's sort of a no brainer have your members make some new members.
Speaker 2:They're all about bring in your entire family, bring in your kids. When your kids are born, they'll get baptized, and of course, but we're drawing a line because it's not a religion. That's what.
Speaker 3:That's the difference also a lot of that backfired on them because almost if if you think about almost everyone who is at the ranch and a lot of the people at the ranch those kids, when they grew up, they're like I don't want to do this, get me out of here. Like like almost everyone at the the pack ranch. Or like those kids were like. They were like hitchhiking to la to try to go and see their parents and just and just blowing the place completely. They're like I'm not, I'm not doing this, I'm getting out of here.
Speaker 3:So it also backfired too, like trying to force them to be yeah, and it was absolutely the same.
Speaker 2:Obviously I was. I was in the in the cadet org in England from four years old to 10 years old and it was the same. They had so much, so so much lack of adult supervision that sometimes the kids would just run away and end up homeless and other awful atrocities.
Speaker 3:But yeah it's just about this kid like literally, like once a week or once a month or something, he would be found on the side of the of the highway trying to hitchhike his way back to LA to see his dad. He's like I want to see my dad. I want to see my dad, I want to get out of here.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Repeatedly from the pack.
Speaker 1:Right, wow, repeatedly from the pack, right, yeah, it was horrible. Okay, next question coffee char again. Are you aware that there are only 20 000 scientologists worldwide? Yep what is, what are your greatest needs right now? So glad, so happy, you are free. What are your greatest needs right?
Speaker 3:now. Greatest needs, my greatest needs right now. Oh, she fell asleep in his arms. That's so cute. Oh, my cat is sleeping in my husband's arms. It's really cute. Um, my greatest needs? I don't know, I mean I'm, I. I feel like most many, many of my greatest needs have been met and are being met just by having a life, having this wonderful man who's next to me.
Speaker 1:Were you aware that there was only 20,000 Scientologists?
Speaker 2:I have chickens. Oh yay, nice, you have chickens. That's amazing, they're so cute. Oh my God, nice, you have chickens.
Speaker 3:That's amazing. They're so cute, oh my God Anyway.
Speaker 1:Were you aware that there was only 20,000 Scientologists?
Speaker 3:I was. I was being literal, Cause it says are you aware?
Speaker 1:Well, no, but were you aware?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:What did you think? How many Scientologists did you think when you were in the SeaWorld?
Speaker 3:I thought there was probably like 40,000 Scientologists.
Speaker 1:Oh, but not millions, like they tell all the.
Speaker 3:Scientologists? No, I knew that was PR.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Not millions of.
Speaker 2:Scientologists PR, otherwise couched as lies PR. Unprecedented expansion. We are on the watershed of history.
Speaker 3:We're on the precipice of the greatest boom in Scientology.
Speaker 1:I love how she thought there's not 20,000.
Speaker 3:There's 40,000.
Speaker 1:I thought there was 40,000, at least you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because, oh, because I mean, I used to work in data, so I have some of these numbers in my head a little bit, but that's mostly because of the event attendance around the world. If you add up all the event attendance around the world, if you get it up there, it gets up to almost 40,000. Or it used to get up to almost 40,000.
Speaker 1:Exactly it used to. And you know how it works. Everybody pads their stats. They add if there was 500 people there, there was 900 people there. So if you get all of your-.
Speaker 2:Because if they know, they didn't travel. And, of course, someone brings their dog, then that's an attendee, and also event attendance included every single member of the Sea Organization automatically. Yeah, and staff Exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, good Okay.
Speaker 3:You know they had to stop using the what's it called. What's the place called where they did the 1993 event, the LA Sports?
Speaker 2:Arena.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so anyway, la Sports Arena, yeah, so anyway, la Sports Arena doesn't exist anymore. But when it did exist, they did a couple of more events there. They had to stop using it because they couldn't fill the seats. That's right, couldn't fill the seats and it just looked so bad because there were so many empty seats so they couldn't use it anymore. And even when they use the shrine, they don't show, they don't show the whole place, they don't show like the very top.
Speaker 1:They just show the balcony, because the balconies are always.
Speaker 3:People, people standing at the doors telling people come, you know, sit down here, sit down here, sit down here.
Speaker 2:And and let's not forget to mention either because it's been a practice, for by my, I mean they were doing it when we were still there that in all the photos of the events they Photoshop people in, they've been doing that for years. It was a big flap when we were there that they were doing that, crazy oh boy.
Speaker 3:Okay, what's the next one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, here we go. Next one. Oh, that was the next one, valeska Truax. What are the most surprising things you found out about the outer? What does it say?
Speaker 2:Outside. I'll read them honey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my slide thing covers up the text at the very end there.
Speaker 2:It's all good. I was supposed to read them anyway. I forgot. What were the most surprising things you found out about the outside world after you escaped? Okay?
Speaker 3:um, how nice everybody is I agree with that completely there's so many nice people, there's so many, uh, competent people. Um, it's not just a bunch of like uh, you know, out out ethics, off purpose. What's the other one? Criminal Dilettante.
Speaker 2:Dilettante, dilettante.
Speaker 3:Criminal druggies, anyway no.
Speaker 2:Valeska commented and she said I kind of thought you might say that.
Speaker 3:There's so many great people out here, there really are there, are, I know. There's shitty people too, and there's annoying people, just like in the Sea Org, but there's so many great people out here.
Speaker 2:Completely. I was so, so deeply inspired by Anonymous personally, because to me, we were speaking out and it was terrifying because, you know, we had young children. Now we had a you know a target on our backs, but to see these thousands of people who had never had any involvement in Scientology come step up to the plate and say no Scientology, this is wrong. What you're doing is abusive. That was to me. I just kind of had this moment back then, like who am I to be afraid? These people never had anything to do with Scientology and yet they're standing up. So I'm in this, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's kind of wild yeah, yeah, that's kind of wild. And also finding out that that all of the uh, or most most many of the of the ex-members and ex-scientologists, ex-york members, are just, they're just the greatest freaking people. I don't know what to say. Like you and mark and and mike, and like all these people I've met since I've been out or I've reconnected with or connected with, they're just they're. They're just great people. It's just. It's just. They're the exact opposite of what scientology says that they are yeah, scientology does like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not only the the x members, but scientology and specifically the Sea Org. They paint a very bleak picture of the outside world, like if you went out there, you would, you would have a horrible life because there's criminals everywhere and just everyone's out to kill each other. And that's how they portray the outside world. So it's it's when people, when you leave and people are nice to you, you're it's. It is actually kind of shocking to you that people are so nice. It's you're, you're you. It takes a while to get used to how nice people are outside of Scientology. In Scientology, people are horrible to each other, like backstabbing, turn you in, rat you out, you name it. They, everybody is is watching everybody and everything they do. And if anybody does anything out of line, they report you, and so you're constantly being spied on by everyone around you. So is that is that accurate of how the steward was when you left? You can think you have friends, but then, if I think about it, if can think you have friends.
Speaker 3:But then if I think about it, if I think about it, if I, if I told any of those people what I really, what I was really thinking, or that I was thinking about leaving or thinking about doing something else else in my life, they would report me immediately. Right, I couldn't like like. You can't confide in anybody, even if you think it's your friend. You can't confide in anybody, even if you think it's your friend. You can't confide in them.
Speaker 1:They're just going to report you, yeah, yeah, I don't think I've met one person in the outside world that's as evil and like just out to ruin your life than a hundred people that I knew in this organization. Yeah, that was at the international headquarters, which is a little bit more. That's the most dog eat dog place of the entire sea. Org is the base, but even still there's a lot of people that there that, even if they left, I might be like, okay, I'll help you, but we're not going to be friends, okay, okay. Let's see insolvency of local orgs, reportedly, over half in the Western US were having to be bailed out during the pandemic just to stay open.
Speaker 2:And how has that changed since the chase wave and the pandemic? Great question.
Speaker 3:Well, I know that since the chase wave or during the chase wave, which I would consider mid-2019, beginning of 2019, was when it really became a thing, and I think that was when there was IRS agents that walked into Cincinnati org because of what was being done with credit and various things like that. I don't have the whole story financially what happened, but I'm pretty sure that's when that happened. So mid mid 2019, I mean almost all, all, almost all the orgs just crashed, like their income crashed out, and a lot of it was because they were stopping this chase wave thing, but they were also taking people off, uh, registrar posts, and they were taking people off who were, who were doing a lot of the the income generating um type of actions. Credit card fraud, yeah, they were doing, yeah, well, yes, credit card fraud, but but also bringing in income for the organization in like, maybe legitimate ways as well, including credit card fraud, but in other ways, whatever, the people that were working on all that were busted, were taken off completely and so they effectively crashed. All the orgs, including Flag. Flag was making like a couple million or something per week and then they went out to like $200,000 or something. It completely crashed.
Speaker 3:And then when the pandemic hit, I mean I can only speak to what was happening in Columbus because I wasn't in management at that point, but we were, we were one of the, we were one of the orgs that was that was doing the best because we were. We were made up of of of sewer members, of of of sewer members, so, and all we were doing was, uh, sitting in our apartments and calling the public to ask them to donate money, and so we somehow kept afloat and somehow were able to. Like you know, everyone was being fed and the, the rent was still being paid for us to live there. So, but the other orgs, I don't, I don't know what they did, because they had to, they had to close the org, and then the staff were not being on staff and they had to support themselves somehow. So a lot of those orgs crashed as well.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this, Catherine, because I've wondered about this and we have heard from other people that have given us pieces of this but how much were you making a week when you were working in Columbus? How much were you being paid per week?
Speaker 3:I was being paid. Seward pay $46 a week.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you were getting $46 a week. Are you aware of any Scientology organizations getting the what was it called the PPP loans from the government to support, like they were getting paid because they had to hire people?
Speaker 3:I heard about that after I was out.
Speaker 1:Okay, so these organizations and I guarantee you the organization that Catherine was at did it, but basically what they did was they wrote off all those people that were on staff as working 40 hours a week at a minimum wage or regular wage 40 hours a week at a minimum wage or regular wage and they got that money to replace the wages they would have had to pay out as if they were paying all these people minimum wage, and then they were giving them $46. So Scientology, during the pandemic, was making money by making false PPE loans claims across all over the United States to the tunes of many, many millions of dollars, and some at some point, um, that may come to play in in in the next future. Uh, months or years. Uh, you might see something about that, but, um, I didn't know. I, we, we, I never put the two together, because you were there during when everything was shut down, and so you didn't get any extra money or you didn't get any extra pay during that period. You got your what?
Speaker 3:I got my stimulus payment.
Speaker 1:How much did you get as a stimulus?
Speaker 3:We got whatever else everyone else got. It was like $1,200 and then $600.
Speaker 1:Is that how you bought the phone?
Speaker 3:No, I got it before then.
Speaker 1:What'd you buy with that?
Speaker 2:That's a lot of money for a New York member.
Speaker 3:I know, it was great. I borrowed money from somebody. You know, as soon as I got that, I bought my new iPod and that's what helped me escape.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the iPod is what you bought when you got the stimulus check. So the stimulus funds stimulated you to leave. In other words, wow, okay.
Speaker 1:I think this might be the last one, okay, jojo Granum.
Speaker 2:I got it, jojo Granum. Is the RPF actually gone or did they just come up with another name for it? Like, for example, they claim there is no quote unquote fair game policy, but they still practice it?
Speaker 3:Oh, I've been wanting to answer this for a while because I keep hearing people talk about it. Yeah, okay, so the RPF as the RPF does not exist anymore on any base. They don't. No one says RPF says rpf. We were, we were told that it was being gotten rid of because um seorg members should be able to be handled by hco and qual. Like, just be clear for anybody who's listening.
Speaker 1:okay, so rpf is the rehabilitation project force and inside the seorg it's basically like a full-time labor camp that uh misbehaving seg members are sent to. So if you have relations before you're married or you do credit card fraud and it gets caught, or any of these things, that is an assignment. You will be assigned to the Rehabilitation Project Force.
Speaker 2:Okay, and, by the way, it's a program that was created by L Ron Hubbard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in the past they've disbanded some of the locations. There used to be one at the international headquarters in Gilman Hot Springs and then it was moved to where the children were at the ranch near there. But there's been several Sea Org bases where they've reportedly canceled the RPF and they no longer have an RPF. So that is where this question is coming from. So continue, kathy.
Speaker 3:So there was someone who left the Sea Org recently who I spoke to about this specific thing as well, and what he said was that they canceled their RPF because of the Golden Age of Tech 2, where they revised more of the materials and did this whole okay, we have new stuff now, type thing. And they were saying how the RPF wasn't standardly being done and so we can't do it per Golden Age Tech 2 or whatever. So that was the reason that they were told. I never heard that as a thing, but he apparently did.
Speaker 1:But when you left, did you know of any RPF locations that were still in operation? No, no, they do not have an RPF, and when you were in last in Los Angeles, it was in 2017?
Speaker 3:19 2019.
Speaker 1:So in 2000, as of 2019, there was no RPF in Los.
Speaker 3:Angeles. But. But what they do now is they put people um like on the decks.
Speaker 1:They put people yeah, that's a C, it's a C org term based on heavy manual labor when it used to be the C org was at C, the people that had got assigned to the decks were the people that swabbed the decks and chipped the paint and did all that. So in the C org, even to this day, if you get assigned to hard labor, it's called being assigned to the decks.
Speaker 3:Right to hard labor. It's called being assigned to the decks, right. So they put people on that and it's it's. It's essentially a uh uh, an easier form of the rpf rpf, it's the, it's the, it's a timu rpf.
Speaker 1:It's rpf light yeah, but.
Speaker 3:But but I don't know I've, I I've seen a lot of people on it and it's, it's actually it's a little it's. It seems worse because there's no set program that they do, or there's no set.
Speaker 1:Not worse, but it's it's just the RPF by a different way.
Speaker 3:They don't have a way to get off. They don't have a. They don't have. They're not told like do ABCD, auditingiting and conditions or whatever, and you're done. It's just like. Somebody can just like put you on the decks like infinite, like for like uh, wherever, yeah you, just when you're on the rpf.
Speaker 1:There's a finite state of of of statements that if they are true, then you can graduate the rpf. Some people take a year or two years or three years. Some people have been on the. I've known people that have been on the RPF for over a decade so and you're just working. You're mainly a construction workforce. There was one point I want to say. It was in the late 90s or the early 2000s when the RPF in Los Angeles it was referred to as the PAC RPF was the second largest Sea Org organization outside of Florida, outside of the FSO.
Speaker 3:There were like 200 people there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, I think it was up to 300 and something people at one point that were on the RPF and PAC and there was a lot of construction happening back then and people used to say you could always tell when there's a lot of construction happening is because the rpf is in the multiple hundreds of people and and so if if the construction projects were falling behind, somehow miraculously more people would be being assigned to the RPF to work on construction.
Speaker 3:Well, you know what they did in LA. And then when the whole chase wave thing blew up, cause they, they busted tons of people around that, that missionaries, they busted just tons of people from all over the place and they were all like on the decks type thing, right. So then when, when, when, it became a thing of like we have to send people to Kansas city because we don't have enough staff and we need to open the org, we need to send people to Kansas city, we need to send people to Columbus. They took all those people and send them to Kansas city.
Speaker 1:The people that were on the decks. Yeah Goodness, let's take the people that don't want to be here and send them somewhere where it's much easier for them to not be here. Or you got assigned to a lower org or you went to the RPF. It was actually one of the ways you could kind of weasel out and disappear one day and it was like oh, they were on the RPF, who cares, we're not going to miss them, kind of thing, and it was kind of a quiet way of just leaving out the back door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning too, in regards to the chase wave because we've been told this by several people who left more recently that it was very intentional for them to take all those anyone and everyone who'd been who was committing credit card fraud, put them on heavy manual labor and then just leave them there to sit while time passed by so that they couldn't be made into, you know, for example, like testify and be put in the witness protection program, for example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, that is true, they do move people around, Like you said. Like when the Lisa McPherson thing happened, those people disappeared from Clearwater and they ended up back at the base. So there were three. I want to say it was two or three people that were directly involved with a woman who passed away in Clearwater in the hands of Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Lisa McPherson's wrongful death, which took place at the Fort Harrison in, I think, December 1995.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the people that were directly involved with that. From the Religious Technology Center they came to the base and became dishwashers and they remained dishwashers until that lawsuit was done. But they were unavailable for comment in the galley washing dishes and if anybody went to the Clearwater location and said, hey, where's this person, they go oh, that person doesn't work here anymore. We don't know where that person went, so they've done that. They did that with Angie LeClaire, who-.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:Angie.
Speaker 2:Trent Angie LeClaire is somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they did that with Angie LeClaire in the. Danny Masterson suit when she was one of the people that was witnesses to the things that Danny Masterson had done, because she was reading all the reports from all his auditing session and directing all the victims and doing all that stuff. She had worked at Celebrity Center for decades and then all of a sudden she disappeared and she didn't work there anymore and somehow she popped up in Kansas city doing stuff there. So they've do this.
Speaker 3:One of the Kansas city stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I know that's so funny that you mentioned that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it this all kind of ties together. Guys. This is all one big mess.
Speaker 3:They can send people down to Australia. I mean they sent Jenna and Dallas down to Australia at one point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they did that with Ricky Jensen as well, who was one of the RTC people involved in the Lisa McPherson wrongful death.
Speaker 1:She went to.
Speaker 2:Australia too.
Speaker 1:That's right. Right, when they the other, I think the other two stayed at the property, but you're right, ricky Jensen was sent to do the RPF in Australia. That's how far. And there were people from the international headquarters that messed up. They were scanning, they were scanning an LRH original negatives to make into full videos and they scanned. We're talking about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of frames of film that had to get scanned and then cleaned and then they restored them and they did all this. Well, the guys that scanned those, they scanned them at the wrong resolution. So after years and years and years of retouching every single frame and and doing it, and then when they went to go final, final it and put it out the video, they're like oh, this thing's the wrong resolution. Oh yeah, those guys that scanned it scanned it wrong. So for like the last five years of retouching was just a giant waste of everyone's time. So, um, they were, those guys were. The story that I heard from somebody who left was that they was three gentlemen Nikki Cifarelli, I think, paul Witcher.
Speaker 2:And Kip Engen.
Speaker 1:Kip Engen and maybe Paul Eves as well, I can't remember but they were sent to the Australian RPF and they were supposed to do the RPF three times over. So they would go through the RPF, however long that takes. Like I said, some people do it in a couple of years, some people do it in 10 years. When they were done, they would start all over again and they had to do that three times.
Speaker 3:I was going to ask if Tara Beeney was involved in that. Do you remember Tara Beeney?
Speaker 2:Tara Igoe Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tara Igoe, tara Beeney, she was the establishment exec for a while. Yeah, she lasted at the base. I want to say a couple of years at best.
Speaker 2:At best Chris. Chris Beattie, her husband lasted about 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he literally there's stories. There's stories, there's a. There's a group of people, there's a list of people, rather that their store, it's like have. When you get to the international base, they tell you okay, these are the. This is kind of like the. Somebody tells you like, don't do this, don't do that, don't. If you see David Miscavige, it's yes, sir, no sir, three bags full, sir. Like don't say anything unless he has you.
Speaker 1:There was a guy who was a security guard and he was up at one of the studios and the phone rang and he had been at the property for like a few months and he picked up the phone. He goes hello, and it was David Miscavige. David Miscavige said who's this? And the security guard was like what he's like, who's this? And then David Miscavige goes no, seriously, tell me who you are right now.
Speaker 1:And the security guy goes I'm the baddest motherfucker on this property. Who the fuck are you? And David Miscavige said well, I know that's not true, because I'm the baddest ass motherfucker on this property and you're not going to be here in about 10 minutes. And he was gone. They literally had somebody pick him up and he drove him away from the property. But there's a lot of stories like that and Chris Beeney was one of those people. I think he had just got there and David Miscavige walked into wherever he was when he was getting his orientation or whatever, and he'd literally been there, I want to say an hour. David Miscavige walks in the meeting and goes that guy's got something going on. He needs to get out of here.
Speaker 1:And he just hauled out of there, literally just got there, and then they took him and then they found it out he never, he didn't want to be there and he wanted, and then we're, and then Tara had to stay. After that happened, his, her, his wife, she stayed there. And then I want to say a year later she was gone, or maybe not even a year. I used to live with Tara I go, when I was not in the Sea Org. Her family I stayed with and they got recruited into the Sea Org and then I ended up having to move and move in with some other folks. This is all in my book in excruciating detail.
Speaker 1:But then that person that I was staying with got, you know, recruited for the Sea Org and I was, I just tapped out, I was like I'm 15, having to pay rent and figure out where to live, and every place I get I get the rug pull on me from Sea Org members. So members so, but yeah, so when she showed up at the base I was like, oh, look who's here. Um, anyway, you guys, uh, do we want to do some questions and then do the giveaways?
Speaker 3:sure yeah, let's do that. There was a question. I sent you a chat, a private chat, claire, but because there was a question that I remember that from the list that I wanted to answer that wasn't in the book?
Speaker 2:Oh okay, Let me find that real quick. You can pull up questions and I'll find that question.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, here we go, George says. Question how many people think of this as a job that they can't resign from for the fear of not being able to land another job rather than religion?
Speaker 3:Think of who they can't resign from.
Speaker 2:It's true, you, you don't think you can resign from?
Speaker 3:yeah, no, you don't think you're gonna resign no gonna. You're treasonous if you resign yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's basically illegal in scientology for you to resign from the sea org. It's. It's the ultimate um. It's the ultimate thing to do to show your dedication to join the Sea Org and it's the ultimate betrayal to leave the Sea Org. If that makes any sense. Yeah, okay, here's one. Oh, this is in Ottawa. This is Ottawa Smackdown. This is also Jojo Granham. I think I recognize the avatar. Um, this was in the nineties. There was only four staff there. That was Ottawa's um Ottawa. I used to live in Ottawa. I went to Cal Carlton, was in CF reserves there, I think Peta, peta Wawa Miscavige. When we were playing musical chairs he was threatening to send people to Ottawa and then he showed us a whole bunch of pictures of like really nasty, dirty toilets in Canada. So I've always had this idea of the Sea Org. Toilets in Canada were pretty nasty, so maybe don't. Ok, here I have the question Catherine was wanting to answer the Sea Org toilets in Canada were pretty nasty, so maybe don't.
Speaker 2:Okay, here I have the question Catherine was wanting to answer. Did you know who Mark Yeager Ray Midoff and Shelley Miscavige were while you were in the Sea Org? Did you know who Mark Yeager Ray Midoff and Shelley oh, that's a duplicate. When and how did you decide to leave and how did you pull off the great escape? So the part did you know? Mark yeager ray?
Speaker 3:and, yes, I knew them and I wanted to say that that um, mark yeager came with jenny linson uh, probably 2017, maybe 16, anyway, they came to do a project in osa and they ended up being posted in osa international. Um, and I was told, I mean, everybody thought, oh, senior executives, and whatever right. And I was working in the galley at the time and I was told, um, after like I don't know six months or a year or something, by the ethics officer at osa. She came and specifically told me they are not senior executives, they are to receive no special service, they're just regular OSA staff.
Speaker 1:Oh, you mean from the food service? Yeah, so let's explain.
Speaker 3:Don't give them anything special.
Speaker 1:Executives, everybody, all the Sea Org members. They eat three times they eat a breakfast, they eat a lunch and they eat a dinner and the Sea Org provides that For senior executives. So if you're an executive from the base and you travel to Los Angeles, you could get a plate of strawberries, maybe some fruit snacks, you maybe get some little muffins or something Throughout the day. The senior executives get a little bit. I mean, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a five star Catherine, but it's a little extra.
Speaker 3:Excuse me.
Speaker 2:So, catherine, what year was this that Mark Yeager and Jenny were in OSA?
Speaker 3:That was. I don't want to say 2017, 2017, 2018, but they were still there when I left.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, when did we shoot the Louis Thoreau documentary? Claire?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's yeah, that's what I was thinking about. I was wondering if this coincides with when Mark Yeager and Jenny attacked Marty Rathbun at LAX. If they were actually OSA at that time, they probably were.
Speaker 3:That's probably why they were even yeah because for quite a while, ever since, I want to say ever since I don't remember when the CC, when the Nashville org opened, but ever since Nashville org opened there was a parade of projects by staff in OSA. First it was Hans Sully, marion Powell, mike Sutter.
Speaker 2:They were all doing a project, doing a project right after that. Yeah, that involved them going and trying to get all of our friends to rat on us. That was what that project was.
Speaker 1:We were very aware of that project because we were being briefed by the people that they were meeting with each day, A lot of those people. They would say no, you can talk to whoever you want, but you better not talk to Mark and Claire, because they're really, really hardcore evil. And then they do the meeting with Tommy Davis or Katie or Melissa Was it Melissa? It was. Jessica, and then and then they would call us and say I just finished meeting with Tommy, and then they'd tell us what happened, or Hansuli or Marion.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, we've heard so many stories about that project from the recipients of the project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the Louis Thoreau.
Speaker 3:There was a parade of these guys, and then the latest ones were Mark and Jenny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Louis Thoreau movie was in 2015 okay so that's when we did the louis thoreau movie, the, and directly after the louis thoreau movie is when we're during it. I don't when the video came out, when the movie came out, because we worked on the movie for like at least a year.
Speaker 3:That was a really good one, by the way. I loved it when he went to the gold. But when you, when you guys were at the gold or on the side of the road at the outside of gold, and he was like no, you stopped filming me. No, you thought no, you stopped and he's, and he's got he's, he's got such good manners. He's just like why, why are you, why are you yelling at me?
Speaker 2:and she's like just like lost it oh I gotta show so, listen, I have to say something. So I looked up the jenny linson lax attack of marty rathbun and it was 2016, approximately 2015, so it's very likely that this osa trip was a punishment for that maybe yeah, yeah mitch brisker says hansuli and mike sutter are now grunts on the film crew there you go yeah, I believe it well I believe it well yeah that, and that's not the first time that's happened.
Speaker 1:Hansuli was a dishwasher for years yep, he was in the galley, hansuli stolle, who was this big bad executive in Religious Technology Center for many, many years. He was the dishwasher in Golden Era Productions and yeah, how hard they fall. I'm going to put this up from Dr X oh, dr X.
Speaker 2:Hi guys, so glad to see Catherine doing so well since leaving. How many different posts did you actually have while in Scientology? Which post did you like and which one was the worst? Did you have more than one at once? Why people to Australia for the RPF? I'll answer the last part really quickly, dr X. They would send people to Australia so that David Miscavige would never see them, ever, ever again, and that's the only reason. Like you know, that's also. People would be sent to Canada for the same reason, like nowhere near any of the main organizations that he would visit on a regular basis. All right, catherine, I'll leave you to answer the questions for you, can you?
Speaker 1:put up the question again it was how many posts? Which was your favorite, which was your worst, and did you have more than?
Speaker 3:one. So let's see, I was let me run through this really fast Senior. Okay, so I've seen your. Should I say what they were?
Speaker 1:You can say but, I'll explain the abbreviations, because you guys are throwing out abbreviations, full time and you assume everyone. Some people might be here for the first time, so you kind of have to explain it. If you say it, I'll do the explain.
Speaker 3:Okay, good. So I was senior senior CR recruitment officer international. I was senior writing forms international. I was senior purse personnel officer international. And then I was in data data. I was the data collection officer. I was that was my only post in data uh, I was on project getting people for income for a year income is the international network computerized management, that is the c-org computer department yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So after all this stuff with income blew up, which I found out after I, after I blew, and I found out actually what happened with income, which I thought was fascinating. Right after that I was, I was on a project to get programmers recruited for income. They fired everybody.
Speaker 1:Which one did you like the best out of all those?
Speaker 3:Wait, wait, I'm not done. So then I was in data and then I was in the galley. I was the crew steward, I was the exec steward, I was deputy chief steward and then I was in Columbus as the director of public promotion. So what did I like the best?
Speaker 1:That's a lot of posts, by the way. That's more posts than I had by double promotion. So what did I like the best? Um, that's a lot of posts, by the way, just that's more posts. That's more posts than I had by double.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, same same for me.
Speaker 3:So I think I liked there was two I liked. I liked the one in Columbus, um, and I liked uh, I liked working in the kitchen until I was like the only part I didn't like about working in the kitchen was that I messed up my back. I actually have a stress fracture in my back now from working in the kitchen. Oh my gosh. It was very, very physically demanding, but it was the most it was. I was able to fulfill my not fulfill, but I was able to indulge my, my creative streak being in the kitchen and and I got left alone a lot by a lot of the executives and HCO and stuff. I mostly got left alone because they didn't have time to then they were busy with other things and they didn't care about the person who was in charge of food and so I didn't I like I just got left alone a lot of the time.
Speaker 1:It's a good place to lay below the radar. The galley is sort of like if you need to be out of sight, out of mind, the galley is a good place to do that, because nobody wants to go in there for any reason whatsoever, they just want to eat the food.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and plus you know everything that's happening on the base if you work in the kitchen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the crossroads of the Sea Org is whatever that goes, because also when people get in trouble, that's the first place they send them as like a holding zone. Like you're in trouble, you suck, you can't be seen by anybody, they send you to the galley Go wash dishes until we figure out what we're going to do with you, or to grounds. Well, the H-T-B doesn't have grounds that much. They have more galley than they have estates, people.
Speaker 3:But but, uh, and you know, like, who's sitting at the co's table and who's not, and who's like, you know everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, you know everything, like that you know, you know who's not, who hasn't been seen in the dining room for months and months all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, plus, you're working with with services um cmo yeah, so you know who's not getting the special snacks.
Speaker 2:And you know stuff from there, like like chattering about stuff, yeah, and and you know, yeah, and you know, the executives who've been ordered to lose significant amounts of weight directly by David Miscavige.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yes, like Tracy.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, my God, tracy Danilovich.
Speaker 3:Boom, okay, hello, like Tracy, yes, oh my God, tracy Danilovich. Oh gosh, boom, ok, hello, lone. All right, I've got the comments. When David Miscavige drops his body, who do you think will take over? I got that one. Yep, think it's going to be between like, like from what I saw being in middle management and how much middle management is doing now, because there's no in management. Um, what I think is it's going to be somebody like, um, uh, nora, not nora, sorry, she's got a sister named nora. Uh, molly, molly, uh, savage. It was molly savage, but now it's molly hurtling okay?
Speaker 2:oh, because she's married to jason hurtling jason hurtling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to be fair with molly molly or, or one second or it might be somebody like carrie um oh carrie ibert yeah, to be fair, both of those people only deal with los angeles things they don't do, florida things they don't do, legal things they don't do they don't do.
Speaker 1:They don't do legal they're not going to take over for dave, they, they. Dave muscavige has siloed every possible part rtc is its own silo, cst is its own silo, the irs, the, the legal. What do you think they're going to do then? They're going to be screwed because of the way it's set up. It's exactly how Hubbard set it up, and the only reason that David Miscavige was able to take over after Hubbard died in 1986 is he had been siloing things himself in getting prepared for when it happened.
Speaker 1:And then, when the when Pat Broker kind of became a problem, he just got rid of Pat Broker, and as soon as Pat Broker was gone he'd already had everything pretty much figured out and it took him like three or four more years to kind of weed out all the people that didn't like him. And then he had it, but he doesn't. He doesn't have. He works with the people that didn't like him, and then he had it, but he doesn't. He doesn't have. He works with the people that you named on stuff that's happening at the hollywood guarantee building or an impact, or in the media productions, and then that's it. They don't know about florida, they don't know about the is. They don't know about they do now.
Speaker 3:They maybe not rtc, but they do now cst is they might not know about cst, but in the last in the last few years that I was there. Yeah, the amount of meetings that I know took place between, like cst execs, like people like um god, I can't remember names no, anyway, uh yeah, cst execs and ISA. Isa was there constantly, the COISA was there constantly. Anyway, I think that it's kind of.
Speaker 1:I just don't think that any of those people have the caliber or the yeah, maybe not. Fortitude to do all of those things and know, know about. I just don't know how you? Yeah, if he doesn't say you're gonna be in charge when I leave, yeah, then when he leaves, they're not gonna be in charge, right?
Speaker 3:you'd have to like who is he gonna turn the legal stuff over to, because don't do the legal stuff. So then, yeah, like yeah, no, uh.
Speaker 2:History will most likely repeat itself and it will either crumble entirely or somebody will pull a david miscavige and negotiate themselves into complete and utter power and destroy anyone else who was in the running. Maybe shelly will show up and take yeah, well, yeah, we'll see, we'll see, we, we'll see, we'll have to see. It's a tough question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, here's. We got a few last ones here, guys.
Speaker 2:Okay, charlotte Arrow question how did you feel while knowing that, while in knowing that there were only 40,000 or fewer Scientologists and that numbers were being padded? Was it discouraging or anxiety provoking?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was discouraging and anxiety provoking, but the way I thought of it was like, well, we just need to get more people in. We just need to get more people in. We just need to disseminate more, we need to recruit more. We're not doing enough. That's how I thought of it, yeah, Nice Okay.
Speaker 2:I think it's giveaway time, guys, unless you have any other ones you want to do or anything else. Oh, and speaking of which, Catherine, you mentioned that there's a special giveaway for today.
Speaker 3:Yes, I wanted to. I didn't have time to go over this with you earlier because I messed up on the time, but I wanted to give away something from my Etsy store.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:We can do that. Okay, so let's do we can just do the giveaway. They send it to you and then you and Claire, you and I, they I guess you have to do they go to your site and pick something and they'd have to go to my FC store and pick something.
Speaker 3:I'd have to give them a promo code Like I need. Just need to work out the logistics of it, which I We'll just have them email, claire.
Speaker 1:Go to the blown for good website if you're the winner, and then Claire and Catherine will figure it out.
Speaker 2:Okay, and do we want to do that one last and have them do a different hashtag if they would like something?
Speaker 1:No, because then everybody has to re-enter. We'll do it this way and it'll work. Okay, so here we go. We've got 63 people. If you want to enter into this, if you just go into the comments and hashtag BFG, then you get to enter the contest and right now there's 69 enters. You can see when you do it it's going to change. Right here we're doing it and someone who wins will automatically not be entered in to win again. So you only have to do it once Hashtag BFG, one comment and you're entered. And multiple comments don't get multiple entries, it's once in three ones.
Speaker 2:You're good, yeah, so let's do Catherine's giveaway last then.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Because the number is going up as people are putting in their hashtags. So we will do four giveaways and you get to pick. It can be a copy of Mark's book, an SP bracelet, a bobblehead or anything from either the BFG merch store or the SP shop merch store, of course the SP shop. All the proceeds benefit the aftermath foundation.
Speaker 1:All right, there we go. Ready, catherine, you, you, you tell me when to hit the button.
Speaker 3:Oh, I tell you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was trying to get more people to.
Speaker 1:It's yes. I mean definitely people in there right now that have entered. So people, we're gonna do it, we're gonna do a bunch, so the more okay, do it now there you go, poof, there you go. Oh, I commented, so even I was entered into it oh my gosh, you're rigging the system I know, I just commented what.
Speaker 2:What okay, come on just because I I didn't. Oh wait, did I say hashtag bfg?
Speaker 1:you said yeah, you told everybody to type hashtag bfg.
Speaker 2:So now, okay that that one doesn't count.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, you should, you, you can do this and I could give her something from my shop no, she will draw I will buy something from your shop and we're gonna benefit the audience in this case.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay, okay okay, draw again oh gosh, I can't believe you called that. That was just creepy, I knew it.
Speaker 1:I said what if ding you won?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay, there, okay, there you go.
Speaker 1:Congratulations, Christy Lynn Wilson. Contact Claire at the Blown for Good website. Go to the contact page and you can send her a link of whatever you want in the SP shop or the Blown for Good store and she will send you a link so that you can order it. Okay.
Speaker 2:That was number one.
Speaker 1:We're going to do it again.
Speaker 2:Love Food Kitchen said never trusted Ginger, she rigged her own competition. That is something Mark would say.
Speaker 1:To be fair. I'm not touching any buttons, I'm paying Love Food Kitchen a lot of money to make these comments about you. Okay, we're going to draw again. Congratulations, Christy Lynn Wilson. You are our first lucky winner of the day.
Speaker 2:You are a winner.
Speaker 1:After Claire rigged it, claire ginger rigged it. I did not touch anything. We're in the ginger verse now.
Speaker 2:Come on now oh my goodness, I like that. The ginger verse, nicholas Hall.
Speaker 3:Awesome Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Nicholas Hall from France. Email me and let me know what you would like.
Speaker 1:Perfect, and that was number two out of four. And then we're not including the bonus. Fifth giveaway See, there, I got entered in again. I saw it, I still have it. Wow, salty Beach.
Speaker 2:Girl Lori.
Speaker 1:I think she's won before.
Speaker 2:You know, you always say that once a week, I know. Because I do see a lot of comments but I will say um, thank you very much to betsy sue. Um, I haven't seen her in the chat here today, but she was a winner last week and you said that, and I just wanted to give her a shout out because she said you're, you're right, I was a winner and I'm gonna gift my win to somebody else, and she did that, so that was awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect. Congratulations, salty beach girl Lori.
Speaker 2:Yes, congratulations.
Speaker 1:Last one, and then we do the, and then we do Catherine.
Speaker 2:We still have 89 entries.
Speaker 1:If you guys still have time to enter, you don't have to do it twice. Once you do it, once you're in you're in. You're in it neglects uh multiple entries, which means that I'm not going to win again.
Speaker 2:Thank, goodness you're, you're taken out. Yeah the mr den life, there you go there we go um.
Speaker 1:I wonder if here's a great comment. I wonder if the osa monitors the giveaways. That would be amazing if they're like let's's see what Mr Genlife got. We've been watching his mailbox, it looks like he got a bracelet.
Speaker 2:Well, funny side story because obviously, as we've mentioned, we have personally shipped every book that's ever been purchased, of Mark's book, blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology and one of the funniest memories and the darkest days of deposition. That was no fun, but we got a real laugh out of it when the Scientology lawyers pulled out Mark's book and it was one of the very first copies we'd ever sold which we knew because it was numbered and signed, and we're like holy moly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had a signed copy. They paid extra for that one. The other thing I want to say is because we do fulfill all the orders, even to this day is that when we sometimes we have books that are signed and sometimes we just have regular books, if they're regular books we don't do anything. We just know that's a regular book. But if it's a signed book, we have to put something on it. So if it's a hardback or a paperback and a person wrote to us and they said I think OSA has hacked you guys, because the package I got in the mail said SP on it. Well, that's because you got a signed paperback and that's how we market in Claire's office, so we know which ones they are. And SP is a signed paperback and that's how we market in Claire's office, so we know which ones they are and SP is assigned paperback.
Speaker 2:Speaking of which, by the way, because we've had a couple of people email about this Mark's paperback and hardback books are available on the Blown for Good website. Do not go to Amazon to purchase a hardback or paperback, because they're being sold for exorbitant prices on there, not by us.
Speaker 1:Somebody sent one to me that was like $464 for a signed copy. I was like I'm not getting any of that.
Speaker 2:No, mind you, we are down to, I think, approximately 70 paperbacks left to sell Less than that.
Speaker 1:I think it's like 50.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're getting down there. Yep, exactly, I have to hurry up and finish my book. Okay, we're ready for the final giveaway.
Speaker 1:okay, this is the katherine, is it's foot? It's photographs, right, or pictures, or it's going to be, uh, some of her photographic work that she has on her etsy site and um, and she's going to give you guys one of that so we'll send you. Claire can go, and there you go, k.
Speaker 2:Catherine and I will coordinate, so the it will be the same. Just shoot me an email and we'll take it from there.
Speaker 1:Here we go. This is it the final entry of 92 people draw. Here we go. Here we go. It's going to be me.
Speaker 2:No, it's not. Don't say that.
Speaker 1:I want a picture, oh, casey.
Speaker 2:Casey Yay, that's amazing. Congratulations, Casey.
Speaker 1:It had to be Casey. It had to be Casey.
Speaker 3:Is it Casey or Cassie?
Speaker 1:It's Cassie, but I call her Casey.
Speaker 2:Mark has been calling her Casey for more than a year now.
Speaker 1:It's the name. It's Cassie, her Casey for more than a year now.
Speaker 3:It's the name it's Cassie. I just want to say that this giveaway is made possible by Dr X and Dr Paul.
Speaker 2:Who are?
Speaker 1:amazing, amazing. Did multiple people do giveaways this week? Yes, awesome. Well, that was cool, I love it, love it yeah, that was amazing, thank you so much katherine, I'm sorry for the time zone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mix up that's all right, it's okay. It happens again and I'll get. I'll get it right, yes we should.
Speaker 1:If, if you guys want us to do this again, um, let us know and we'll do. We'll do this with other seer members as well, like a seer q a. It was pretty great because we were able to post that we were going to do it at least a few days ahead. They really want to see John. By the way, he's going to have to at least poke in. I mean, can we see the husband?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he can come over there you go. He's invisible.
Speaker 1:Yes, there you go. Hey John, hey John, hey John. I don't want to spill the beans, but we do have some things that are coming up and you and you guys, if you're paying attention to the space, you guys will see more of John in the future. I'll just say leave it at that. Does that sound good? Catherine?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it sounds great.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 3:I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course you know what I'm talking about, you, maniac. Okay, yes, you do, she knows, everybody knows what we're talking about, don't be? Anyway, we have been working on some amazing projects, guys, and one of those projects Catherine has been involved with, and over the next I want to say over the next several months we're going to start having these things come out Not only on our channel but on the Aftermath YouTube channel, the Aftermath Foundation YouTube channel, and also Claire is setting up her channel. So in this video I'll put links to all those different things. We'll put links to Catherine's Etsy store and we'll put links to Claire's channel and the Aftermath channel so you guys can subscribe to those, because not all of the things that we're going to do are all going to come out on the Blown For Good channel. We'll talk about them, but they might not appear on my channel. We're trying to kind of separate out the things that we're doing by the organization that's doing it. So for all of the Aftermath stuff, we're going to have that on the Aftermath YouTube channel from now on. So it would be great if you subscribe and click the bell notification icon on that channel and Claire's channel and Catherine's channel. So whatever's coming out, you guys hear about it.
Speaker 1:Question is Sunday, usually when you do the live shows? I've only listened to the podcasts until now. Yes, brian, if we do do lives, we usually try to do them on Sunday because that's a day off in the States, and then also oh, what's that? That's weird. And then also this allows some people in other countries that are in a totally different time zone than us off by several hours. It allows them to sometimes see these lives in in uh. In uk mainly is the the place that we're sort of catering to. Our our biggest viewers come from the united states and then then second is UK and as far as cities go, I think it's Sydney and Melbourne are our two highest cities. But so we try to cater to the US and the UK as our main channel members. If you guys want us to do it at a different time, you got to subscribe to the channel so we can see where we're catering to.
Speaker 2:But right now. Those are the two biggest factors. I'd factor in that Mark and I both have full-time, 40-hour, week day jobs, so that's a little makes it a little challenging, you know, because after work kids got to get fed and to bed and homework and all that joyous, wonderful, amazing stuff that we have in our lives. So that's another factor. There you go.
Speaker 1:So we're trying to squeeze these in. We've been able to do it. If we haven't been able to do a live every week, we put a video out on Sunday at least. Claire's got a bunch of interviews coming up and I've got a bunch of different shows coming up, so we should be able to keep going. And then Catherine has a channel now. So we're trying to. You know, for the P, there's a lot of people that write to us and say can you please do more videos? We want to see more videos. So if you like doing videos, get on there, click the bingle, the dingling button and the uh, the subscribe button and all that good stuff and um, we'll try to get you more content.
Speaker 2:But um, we certainly will.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Catherine, for joining us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Catherine, If you guys want us to do more of this, let us know in the comments. We do read the comments. I do see them. I answer questions from time to time in there. So even if you have a question and it's not live, if you're one of the replay crew and you're watching this, go ahead, put your question on. Tell us where you're watching from. We see those all week long in the videos and a lot of times we'll answer them or we'll at least like them.
Speaker 2:So yes, anyway, thank you so much for your time, catherine. Always, always a pleasure, and that was an amazing conversation, so we appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks guys Say bye to John.
Speaker 2:Bye John, bye everybody.
Speaker 1:Bye John, Bye Kat, Bye, Bye guys, Until next time. Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, Kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, Until next time.
