Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Exploring Scientology's Quirks: Humorous Labels, Sea Org Drama, and Community Connections - Scientology Q&A #23
This episode originally aired on April 21, 2023 on YouTube. Due to popular demand, these episodes are also being made available on the podcast.
The episode delves into the derogatory language used within Scientology to manipulate and control its members. It explores specific terms and their implications, emphasizing how these words contribute to an “us versus them” mentality that stifles dissent and fosters compliance. The hosts discuss personal experiences with these terms, the impact of labeling on self-esteem, and the challenges ex-members face when reintegrating into society. Listeners gain insight into the pervasive culture of control embedded in Scientology’s language and the journey of healing from such manipulative environments.
• Discussion on the significance of Scientology's derogatory terms
• Examples of labels like "Dev T" and "CI" that impact self-identity
• Exploration of the culture of compliance fostered by this language
• Personal stories reflecting experiences with derogatory labels
• Insights into the psychological impact of these terms on individuals
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hi everyone, it's friday night. Let's have our friends join in mark headley, claire and the wonderful Amy Scovey.
Speaker 2:Hey guys. Hi we're doing an SP simulstream, so we have this going to Amy's channel, mike's channel and the Blown for Good channel. So if you guys are joining us, make sure you got to go over to Amy's channel and click subscribe. Hey guys, because we got to get her, we got to get her watch hours and her subscribers up because she's new, so it'll help the algorithm.
Speaker 3:Yes, good point, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:And this. This episode is actually based on an idea that Amy had of talking about the terminology in Scientology which is used to denigrate and create this us versus them mentality, and when she started listing out this list of terms, it is very lengthy. I doubt that we will get through all of them because I'm as usual, we'll probably get sidetracked on a lot of different discussions, and we always do. But just realize this is something of a sort of a hallmark of Scientology, this idea that there are terms that are used to describe people which are exceedingly derogatory. And you know, when I started reading the list and.
Speaker 1:Amy and I were talking about it, and then Mark and I were talking about it at dinner tonight. It was like you kind of forget how many there are and having some distance from them, you kind of realize just how disgusting some of these things are that Scientologists use to refer to other people with.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of labeling inside Scientology. You call the person sitting next to you these things, your juniors, these things it's. You know it's not just like somebody who's outside of Scientology name calling, it's like labeled people labeled inside your own people.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly. Ok, so you want to start with the first, the first little batch there, amy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it is extensive, but so I grouped them in categories, the first category being production. So when, when you're trying to get production and you're having any difficulty, these are names that you assign to your junior or the person who's giving you trouble. One is a DevT merchant or DevT artist, and DevT is called it's short for developed traffic so it means that it's someone who specializes in making extra work for you, and there's a whole, several policies. There's a series called the DevT series that teaches people all about creating extra work, all the forms of DevT, and so there's a multitude of them. So you are usually accused of some form of Dev T, probably on a daily basis, and a lot of times if you write something to a senior and they don't like it, they just stamp it Dev T and send it back.
Speaker 2:That's true. People used to have Dev T stamps.
Speaker 3:Right, big ones. I remember that you would just get your thing back and you're like what?
Speaker 4:And I would say Dev T is the only word that I haven't found a meaningful substitute for in real world language.
Speaker 1:It's true it's a hard one to grapple with, because there's nothing that quite means exactly the same as that, and it is a widely, widely used term in scientology. Yeah, it's also a widely used put down of people who, uh, it's like. It's like saying to someone you're an incompetent asshole.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yeah, you're making work for me and yeah, you're just worthless. You're not doing your job, and this is the best way for me to summarize that in a short term yeah, it was one of the the tags I was talking about, the tags that david miscavige made for us, and neon colors that we had to wear.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's right, I was thinking about that when you brought up the term. I totally remember that that was one of the tags.
Speaker 2:So we had guys, we had uniforms and our uniforms were like button down shirts but they had a little piece of soft part of the Velcro sewed above the shirt pocket and every one of us had to wear a tag that was sort of like a piece of laminate that had color letters engraved into it. So it would say WDC, which is Watchdog Committee, cc, celebrity Center, and then it would say Amy Scobie, right under that, or Amy whatever, amy Mortland or Amy, whatever your last name was, and Amy Scobie. And then, and then David Miscavige made those for us, but they said like asshole, or they said Dr Dev T or you know whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Is this OK yeah?
Speaker 2:Backflesher. Is this OK, dev T or you know whatever yeah.
Speaker 3:Is this okay? Yeah, backflesher, is this okay? Dev T merchant.
Speaker 2:And instead of one.
Speaker 3:That was we all the way across. Yeah, and they were pink and yellow and green and just all these neon colors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, instead of just being our normal uniform color, it would be a bright, bright color. So someone would look at it and then say, oh, he's uh he's one of those guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I mentioned to mike when I was talking about this the other day. Um, I had them all taped together and strung like campaign bars all the way down my chest and I couldn't get take them off until I got a petition approved by by chairman of the board directly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and didn't you have to do a?
Speaker 3:separate proposal for each tag that you'd been assigned. I actually did an overall one, but I don't know, some people probably had to do individual ones.
Speaker 4:That's what I remember.
Speaker 2:Do you remember what we had to do? Do you remember when he made the hats?
Speaker 3:That's what I was going to say, because then you had to do individual petitions to get your hat back.
Speaker 2:If you had five hats, because I did several jobs at the same time I had to baseball cap and he had engraved into it every other single person's job on the base, including, like the, the lawn mowing. I see like down to everything. He would even say I'm responsible for even the lawns, being green. So every single, what is it guys Like?
Speaker 3:hundreds and hundreds, the whole dining room, exactly With hats with everybody and every single hat, like it was a black baseball cap that had white letters and it had everybody's job title on it and it was hanging up down there and it was going to stay there until you got your hat back directly from chairman of the board. Mr, I do everything did anybody.
Speaker 2:I knew there was a few like uh, you know what do you call them people that are over uh zealous about getting their job done. There was a few. It was a free brown nosers and a few uh busy, busy buddies who got their hats back right I got my hat back, but I'm not a brown. There you go that's what I'm talking about right there, do gooder. You walked right into it, amy.
Speaker 3:You walked right into it okay, but should I say something? No?
Speaker 2:anyway. So they got their hats back, but but eventually it all just got taken down.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Because like I never got my hat back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I never got my hat back. I was like, keep it, I don't want it. You know, whatever, okay, well, see how we went on a roll on just the first one, that was a good one, though we know we would have never told that story if we, if you didn't bring it up- yeah, that was good.
Speaker 3:Here's the next one, which is you're labeled a backflasher, and that's someone who gives an unnecessary response to an order. It doesn't matter if the order is the most ludicrous thing you've ever heard. If you say anything other than yes, sir, it's considered backflash, and so you either have to run laps for it, do pushups for it or get a report written on you as a backflasher Yep. Next one Hill 10 maker this is how many times have we heard that made the situation worse through noncompliance, false reports and hat dumping. So you were labeled a Hilton maker if you didn't get your job done, or somebody else had to bypass and get it done, like David Miscavige, and so you were then a Hilton maker or an OP maker. An OP maker is someone who produces a useless or damaging product, and it's an overt product, and overt is considered something that's destructive. So an op maker that was. People were called that all the time oh yeah, there's another um low oca, non-producer and oca.
Speaker 3:is that stupid self-personality test?
Speaker 4:The Oxford Diagnostic Analysis Personality.
Speaker 3:Test. It's a personality test, and if it's low, it shows that certain points of your personality traits are in need of improvement. And so you would be called a low OCA non-producer. And that is cause for going to the rehabilitation project force, because that's one of the requirements is that you're a low OCA non-producer. Yeah, okay, here's another label CI, that is someone who is displaying counter intention to an order. Now, this is something that was said like 50,000 times a day. This person's CI don't be CI, you're just CI. There's so much CI to getting this done. You got to find out who's CI get the CI off the lines I mean it's just it was just the usual word often used.
Speaker 2:That was a. Very well, because anything that's not in conducive to getting work done is ci, your ci, or if somebody wants to do something. Or you know, one of these people from cmo comes down to gold and they're like we got to get this done. And you're like, oh, I got other stuff to be done. No, you're ci to y program. This is a co program.
Speaker 3:You're like well, a lot of times it's ci to command intention yeah, you know, because they're coming down. They're coming down with an order from COB and it doesn't matter what you're doing, and so if you hesitate at all, you're CI to command intention. The other thing is, is calling somebody CI is also, it's so thought stopping, because you know you could have something valid to say or an opinion on something that's actually important, but it's just nope, you're CI, and so it's just shut up, it's done, it's over. You're a problem.
Speaker 4:You consider that every single person has committed to a billion years and in many cases, is working like they could not work more hours in the day if they tried.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because it's it's what creates this echo chamber bubble in Scientology, where the most irrational, ridiculous things continue to go on and on and on and you often wonder why does this stuff? Why do they keep doing the same stuff? Because what happens is an order gets issued and nobody can ever query, question, wonder about what you know? Should we really do this? It's because that gets you instantly labeled as CI and worse. So there's no feedback. There's no feedback. There's nobody ever second-guessing anything. It all happens and it's ordered and it gets done, and even when it blows up, it's because someone didn't do it right. Whatever the order was, it wasn't the order that was wrong, it was the way it was executed. And then the same order will be issued again and the same result will occur. Like I see people on social media constantly saying why does Scientology, why does Scientology continue to do the same stupid shit? That results in everybody going Yep. Everything they say about him is totally true.
Speaker 3:Exactly, I thought about that today.
Speaker 2:Well, I know there's a lot of people that don't want them to troll on Twitter, like I know Stephanie Hutchinson, and there's a lot of people that are tweeting at Elon hey, can you get these guys off here? But at the end of the day, scientology being on Twitter is exactly doing what Scientology does in the real world. They're doing it now, so everyone can see them doing it, but this is what they've been trolling us in real life for 20 years. So the fact that they're doing it on Twitter so openly is exactly what they've been doing. That's how they act. It's crazy, but they do it, and they're so over the top. It's ridiculous, but that is what they do. Yep, yep.
Speaker 4:Stephanie is here, by the way.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, hey, Stephanie, stephanie, stephanie is what they do. Yep, yep, stephanie is here, by the way. Oh nice, hey, stephanie, stephanie, there it is.
Speaker 4:Look, hi goldie oh, there we go, nice hi stephanie yeah, that was oh yeah, I, I do.
Speaker 2:I gotta show you some of these, though. These are the best, so I never thought about this in my entire life, laughing my butt off quite like the backflasher term, because you know what?
Speaker 1:if you had a front flasher.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was going to say actually a backflasher, the real definition of backflasher. Yeah, a guy on the subway wearing a raincoat backwards, oh God.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's a butt flasher.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I saw those comments in there and I thought that is true. I never thought about that back flasher. That sounds naughty. Also, there is a whole L Ron Hubbard issue that's called back. Isn't it called backflash? Oh no, it's F? O, flag order 38. And in that flag order there's an entire section about backflash and this Okay, let's do a really crazy thing. I'm going to say backflash, what is it? And we're all, can, we all do it?
Speaker 4:Sure Can you do it, Mike. Do you mean the whole?
Speaker 2:No, just what it is If we just say it at the same time, unnecessary response to an order. Like we literally know it, because at almost every single muster, when we would get together, they would put up a giant piece of paper and they would say backflash, what is it? Backflash, backflash, what is it? Backflash, backflash is an unnecessary response to an order.
Speaker 3:The senior says sell bricks.
Speaker 2:The junior says bricks are hard to sell.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we would have to do that. We'd have to chant that.
Speaker 2:But in golden era productions we had to do it at every single muster three times a day at least for 15 years. We would have to Chinese school that. So we know the whole. It's not, it's not just what we just said. It's really long and we know the entire thing.
Speaker 1:That's. That's called brainwashing Yesterday, when we started on the definition of a team yeah, we were oh, the definition of a team.
Speaker 3:Yeah oh, the definition of a team.
Speaker 2:It's good for people who weren't one of them. They usually get along great. Now the trick is to be a member of a team and an individual at the same time.
Speaker 3:Here's the next one, you guys ready.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Q&A artist. Oh, someone who Q&A is question and answer like normal, but a, q, a artist. It would be labeled someone and it's defined in the technical dictionary someone who asks. Basically it's someone who asks a dumb question or an unproductive question that doesn't go a to b on getting something done.
Speaker 4:Okay, so that's one which which is another form of backflash, because if the senior, the boss, says do X, y and Z, and you say, well, why should I do X, y and Z? And how would you like me to do X, y and Z? And blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:You're trying to carry on the conversation instead of just saying yes, sir, and doing it. Yes, shame on you, you, okay. So the next one is in sit three. You're in sit three, okay. So there's a policy letter that gives the different situations of about people when they're new on post and um. Situation three is basically they're running around, looking busy but getting no product, and so it says so. Someone who's busy with no products, requiring bait and badgering to impinge on him until he snarls, cries, screams and spits out an out point of why he's not producing, and that's his why, and he should go into smooth two-way communication after that is found. But you got to make sure that he snarls, cries, screams and spits out an out point.
Speaker 3:So much that was abused it was abused, it was it it authorized and basically gave way to people impinging on someone to get them to get a product, and it didn't matter if they screamed and cried, you actually wanted them to.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was the sign that they were going to come out of sit three. Actually, that was what you were aiming for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're basically, you're basically in. So this, based on this policy per L Ron Hubbard, you're supposed to intentionally antagonizing aggressively your people that work for you until they freak out on you and then try to talk to you about why, like they don't like it when you do that.
Speaker 4:Oh my god, yeah, yeah, stephanie asked if it's the opposite of bull baiting. It's more like a different form of yeah, it's kind of like ag aggro.
Speaker 2:It's like you're supposed to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're supposed to ask in many different ways Where's the product, where's the product, where's the product, until they scream and cry and and spit out some reason why they're not getting anything done.
Speaker 1:And it's different from bull baiting, because the intent is not just to make the person flinch but to actually upset them enough that they blurt something out that supposedly explains why they're so incompetent. Yeah, and it's kind of hard to describe. I'm trying to think of, like, how to describe this as sort of a little example of what someone might say you know they, they have their, their senior, screaming in their face about how incompetent they are and how bad they are and how rotten they are, and eventually they go. Well, I don't know what to do, because my mother's always upset at me, like, and then, oh, I get it. So you have an antagonistic mother who's antagonistic to scientology, and that's why you're not doing your job. Yeah, I mean, I I know that that makes absolutely no sense and it's completely illogical, but this is standard pattern and practice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it didn't work. No it didn't get you into smooth production. All it did was yeah.
Speaker 2:If anything, it probably chases people away, if anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know. And then you do the advanced training that's called the org executive course. Like you do this advanced training and you train, like to become perfect, like proficient in bait and badger and harassing people to get a product. It's really disgusting actually.
Speaker 1:Let me just answer one question, because it came up. This question just came up. What is the technical dictionary? Amy mentioned.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, do you want me to answer?
Speaker 1:Well, I'll answer. There's two standard dictionaries of Scientology terminology. One is called the technical dictionary and one is called the admin dictionary, and one describes the terms that are used in policies, and one describes the terms and defines the terms that are used in the technical area auditing and training. By the way, the definitions of those terms in those dictionaries are little quotes from L Ron Hubbard. They're not really definitions, they're just where he said something that sort of explains what it means.
Speaker 3:Yeah, in an issue or a tape.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not actually a definition.
Speaker 2:Which is true. It's kind of weird actually, now that I think of it. It's not really.
Speaker 1:It's so big on defining words and understanding every definition of every word and the derivation and the this and the that, and you look up and it's not definitions, it's oftentimes a statement. Yeah, that yeah that it has the word in it describing what it is, or some, you know some expansion on the idea of what it's about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anyway it's weird, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and the reason and the reason for that was because L Ron Hubbard never defined the word and somebody else couldn't define the word in place of him because then that would be not per him. So it's sort of like this weird reverse thing where he made up a word but then he never defined the word completely, verse thing where he made up a word but then he never defined the word completely. So now nobody really knows what the word means and you can change the word if you want to and nobody could say that that's not the definition. So it was a very weird lingo like loophole in this thing.
Speaker 4:Right, it was the use of semantics to control and isolate people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, here's another one, worker oriented.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is a doozy.
Speaker 4:So, let me tell you tell a story when you're done defining this, claire has the best one ever.
Speaker 3:I want to hear this story, so I'll just tell you real quick what it says in the dictionary, which is one who cares for the worker but not for the org.
Speaker 4:Okay, so go ahead, claire. Yes, and so this one comes from the. There's a the policy or reference from Hubbard where he talks about how what went wrong at Hershey's Chocolate Factory is they were too nice to the workers. Right, and they put the workers, they treated them nicer and then they all just took off and the whole place went to hell, or something like that, paraphrased, of course, but when I was working at Religious Technology Center, I was tasked with finding out why people were not performing and all this and I came up with this.
Speaker 4:Really, I thought a really smart idea Like, hey, look at the person's ethics folder, evaluate the positions that they held where they were receiving a ton of reports because obviously they were not performing on that post. Well, find the positions that they had where they were doing great there's, their stats were up, they weren't getting tons of reports and use all of those tools to figure out where somebody would be most successful. And I explained this to Marty Rathbun and, oh my gosh, it's actually not appropriate to say his exact words, but it had to do with that. I was a worker-oriented feedy-weedy. We'll bleep the rest.
Speaker 2:See you next Tuesday.
Speaker 3:Which will lead us into theater meetings oh my gosh, this guy.
Speaker 1:this was also terribly, terribly abused, lyman spurlock, who was in Religious Technology Center. He was a CPA before he joined the Sea Org and so he was used for all sorts of different things by Miscavige covering up his financial irregularities, all sorts of stuff. In any event, lyman Spurlock was a decent man who had lived a life before Scientology and had been successful at it. The fact that staff were not being paid adequately and that it was unfair for freeloaded bills to be accumulated by a person for the entirety of their CEO career, that actually they had worked and that they were exchanging for what the auditing and training or whatever they may be getting by the work they were doing. And he had this proposal that each five years you basically zero out your freeloader bill.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's a great idea.
Speaker 4:It really is actually. Wow, that's a great idea. It really is actually.
Speaker 1:Okay, for that he was labeled for the rest of time, worker-oriented Spurlock. Yes, I remember that. You know ridiculous. It was ridiculous. You're making Nobody ever paid. He actually proposed that if you reduce them, people would probably pay more and actually there would be more revenue generated from people paying off their freeloader bills for that reason. But no, it was just a worker oriented piece of shit and, sad to say, he's no longer with us.
Speaker 2:Yes, rest in peace, lyman.
Speaker 4:Rest in peace. Lyman Rest in peace.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think that there was anybody hated Lyman Spurlock.
Speaker 4:No, I thought he honored me.
Speaker 2:Claire and I shared a room with him and what was his wife's name?
Speaker 4:Carol Carol. He was kind of mean. After Mark escaped and I was left there by myself, he wrote this really nasty report because he lived in the same house. He was like. I always knew there was no good going on behind.
Speaker 2:I knew there was nonsense happening in that bedroom. They were up to no good in there.
Speaker 4:I heard him watching Conan O'Brien at night one time. Okay, well, you know, I forgive him Okay.
Speaker 3:My dog's chewy somehow got out of his kennel, so he's going crazy back there. You can see him, okay. So the next one is how about this An alter-izzer? Oh her, oh, so it's one who sees things different from what it is. So, um, there's we used like it's an isness, like we had this weird terminology about things that were, which was like it's an isness.
Speaker 4:Just confront the isness, um, she's an alter is her and if you're, if you're not is something, you can't actually confront it or see that it's there yeah, that that all comes from early hubbard quote technology about isness and as isness and alter isness and I mean it's a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
Speaker 1:But an alter is a is someone who cannot. It's like saying you're incapable of hearing or reading something and understanding what it actually says. Yes, you make it something different than what you were told or what L Ron Hubbard said it was, and by doing that you are an alter-riser. And because you're an alter-riser, you are untrustworthy. You can't be relied upon for anything. You're going to mess everything up. It's just another.
Speaker 4:You know you're a piece of shit, yeah, and the other flavor of that wouldn't you agree, mike is that if, for example, david Miscavige says you need to do A, b, c and D, c and D, and if you do, then do a, b, c and D, or you either change it in any way or it doesn't get the exact result, result that he expected then you're also an alterizer, well, well, actually, that's everything.
Speaker 2:If you, if it was wrong, then you didn't do the way he said to do it. That's that was why it was wrong, because you did something differently the way he said to do it. That's that was why it was wrong, because you did something differently.
Speaker 4:Yes, and God forbid, and you know well I was just following orders by David Miscavige. Yeah that would get you in hot water.
Speaker 3:The other thing is like if you read through all of his orders, he would say to do it this way and he would say to do it that way. So if you did one and it didn't turn out, he would say to do it that way. So if you did one and it didn't turn out, he would find or his secretary, whoever would find the one to do it the other way.
Speaker 2:But do you remember when you were negotiating with one of like what was the tall guy, francois or Tory or Serena, or one of his people? You're like listen, I've got two orders. One says to do this and one says definitely do not do a. And then I have another order that says 100% we should have done a. So what do you want me to do now? And you're like talking with them, like well, you know, you have to decide, you have to be the one that decides and you're like, oh really, I see how this is.
Speaker 1:You won't tell me which way, right, because they know if they say, they say which way, and that way is the wrong way, then it's going to come back to them. Everybody covers their ass in the Sea Org. Oh, my goodness, that is. That is the. The true art of being a Sea Org member at the highest echelons of Scientology is the ability to cover your ass.
Speaker 4:Remember that whole campaign that Miscavige launched about juniors covering their seniors.
Speaker 2:CYA, yeah, cya campaign and JYA and every variation thereof.
Speaker 1:It's so ridiculous. I mean, talking about this stuff is like, oh my, my God, how did we really buy into all this shit? And what that means is it's a flag case, completion intensive.
Speaker 2:Intensive. It basically just means somebody who goes to Florida and takes auditing or counseling. That's what it means.
Speaker 1:Well, originally it was people who went to the Apollo. You know there were public people that paid to go to the Apollo to receive auditing from class 12s that was the only place you could get it back then and Hubbard there was like five or 10 people I guess in the time that I was there that came who were exceedingly, they were the whales of Scientology. And they came and they paid, you know, like thousands of dollars an hour to be audited by Quentin Hubbard or a class 12. And Ron was there to oversee their case and that's why they were called flag case completion intensives. They came for intensive auditing at the Apollo and that name stuck when the Apollo. Then we went to Clearwater and it became much more accessible and available for people to come, but they still got called FCCIs that's the name of a public person paying for services at the Flagland base FCCI.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, but he would call SeaWorld members FCCIs. So he'd be like you're like an FCCI and you're like I'm like a public. I could never understand it when I was young and he would call people that I was like why is he calling us public Scientologists? And then, as you get there, you're like oh yeah, because you're there, because it's all about you. You're trying to make yourself better. That's not what we're here for. We're here to get work done. We don't give a shit about you. So if you're thinking about you, then you're a public, and it was. And then when I once I got it, I was like so then when you go to Florida, you look at these people and you look at them like they're there because they're all about them yeah that's how you view them, because he, if you get called that it's a derogatory term it's like calling somebody a slacker, basically yeah, yeah, which is weird it's
Speaker 3:like scientology on scientology hate that's what all of these are like. It's just crazy, that is true like here's a, here's another one, which is, uh, degraded being or db, so this is in the general negative statements. Um, so that means for the dictionary sick thetan who can't because. So basically, if you're disheveled or if you are, you know, somehow downtone or whatever, you're called a DB.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and that's a very, very broadly used term to describe homeless people or psychiatrists or mental patients or people who don't like Scientology.
Speaker 3:They're all DBs.
Speaker 1:Everybody, everybody is DB. Db is a very, very generic and broadly used term in Scientology.
Speaker 2:Claire, just let us know. Yeah, I think she had to handle a delivery that was coming there.
Speaker 1:I hear you.
Speaker 3:How do you do that? Because I should let my dog out, because he is like.
Speaker 1:Okay, Mark, once they're gone, let's not let them back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll just like that's it.
Speaker 1:Okay, you guys are gone. It's boys night now, forget all this silly dilly definitions.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the fun stuff.
Speaker 1:I wonder how many more definitions we should actually bother with and start taking questions, seeing as how we've already got 47 yeah, um well, we can actually do some questions while the girls are doing their thing um you put me back in before I was dressed here's.
Speaker 2:Here's um, oh sorry, amy, um, this is from aaron. I'm almost caught up listening at two X speed. He says he listens to Claire and I's videos on two X speed too. And hummingbird says hi, I ordered two bobble heads and then I got caught up in whatever we were talking about. So I don't know if I ever emailed anyone or not with my info. Lol. Well, unfortunately, ann.
Speaker 1:Why don't you bring that one up right now, when Claire isn't there?
Speaker 2:I didn't read it, I just clicked. I just clicked on a random question to get some questions going while Claire dumped out. But anyway, I'm going to let Claire get back in here and then we can ask Can I just say yes, oh yeah, let claire, uh get back in here and then, um, we can ask can I just say yes, oh yeah put it.
Speaker 3:I just say that I got one of these from stacy y. Thank you, if you're watching. Thank you so much. That was sent to me by claire from your order.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much oh, somebody gifted it to you, mike's bobblehead on my desk. Yes, that's so nice. So, claire, yes, amy just showed us the bobblehead that.
Speaker 4:Stacy.
Speaker 2:Y had sent to her, but Ann Hummingbird says she ordered two bobbleheads and then she got caught up in whatever we were talking about. So I don't know if I ever emailed anyone or not with my info, lol, okay, so I'll check, or not, with my info.
Speaker 4:Lol, okay, so I'll check. And if you would shoot me an email, claireatblownforgoodcom. I will sort it out for you.
Speaker 2:There you go, see, you ask and you shall receive.
Speaker 4:This is the soap opera that you could talk to. Sorry, I had to bounce out there for a minute it's okay, I bounce too.
Speaker 2:Don't let my dog out of the no as soon as you bounced claire amy was like how do I do that I want to do?
Speaker 3:that I kept staying on mute because he was going crazy, trying to get his little chewy got out of the cake, out of the kettle. He was trying to get it, oh my god. Okay, here's the next one for everyone, which is disaffected, disaffected. So doesn't agree with management, seniors or orders.
Speaker 4:Why did that?
Speaker 3:label fly around. Yes, yeah, disaffected, oh he's disaffected, oh, she's disaffected. Even people would get labeled as disaffected, like when on the security list you went on, the disaffected went on the security list, and so you get restricted from the base onto the base restricted to the base yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah from.
Speaker 2:I'm restricted from the base we're all restricted from it now.
Speaker 4:That's a wonderful thing yeah, you should have seen their response when we proposed to just drive back and pick up our belongings.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, they lost it.
Speaker 4:Oh, did they? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, hell. No, I'm like we knew, we know where we lived.
Speaker 3:It's not like what's so bad about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know how to get into that back door.
Speaker 1:Which sort of brings up a bit of an off-topic subject, but I think that people probably don't even real or know this term perimeter council. Yes, oh yeah, which is such an interesting term when you think about it now. Perimeter council this was a body of people that was responsible for dealing with the threats on the base, meaning the people who were Sea Org members at the Gold Base who were, for whatever reason, considered to be a threat. Meaning a threat for blow.
Speaker 2:They would escape the perimeter. That's why they were called the Perimeter Council.
Speaker 3:I mean I was on that damn list and I wasn't blowy or anything like that. The Perimeter and that's why they were called the Perimeter Council. Yeah, I mean I was on that damn list and I wasn't blowy or anything like that. I was just on the list because I was in trouble.
Speaker 1:You go on it for all kinds of things, because you were CI, because you were DB, because you were down step, because you were a back flasher, because, like, anything would be good enough.
Speaker 2:Just so you know, mike.
Speaker 3:I got sent to that stupid swamp and I was out there in the swamp under watch for three months because of something that my husband did, that David Miscavige didn't agree with Full time under watch on heavy manual labor out at the swamp watching Mark Yeager. We had to take a shower at the same, not at the same time, but at the in the same little facility when he was being kept out in that cage out there. I mean so it's so arbitrary and of course I was on the perimeter council list so I couldn't leave the property and it's just crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was a perimeter list all-star.
Speaker 3:Were you when you just you were permanently on it, I think. I think I was on it for like two years.
Speaker 2:At one time I slept in a hallway of I slept in a closet above a hallway, like it was like on uh track and studs. I just put boards over it, put a sleeping bag there and it was above a hallway, right near my office that was like my apartment for like two years stories we could tell, people would just not even, not even fathom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean even to this day, vipka hansen was painting backdrops all night. Um, right on the other side of the hallway was the psych wall for the studio for the uh, what was called the city cyclorama, while it's giant green screen that we would shoot things special effects shots against, and vipka hansen. Vipka hansen was a painter and she was in the sets and props department and she was painting all the psych wall and backdrops and all, and she would listen to the hymn of asia music album on repeat. So I would. That was all I would hear all night long. I am and.
Speaker 4:I literally if.
Speaker 2:I hear that album, I will. It's like clockwork orange to me. If I hear I am, I will literally lose my mind and start going into the streets.
Speaker 4:So much to me.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 4:You try to get work done in the day.
Speaker 3:I know that you got blamed for this a lot, or accused of this or called this a lot Mark, which is J&D. Oh yes, so J&D stands for Joker and Degrader, and it's a person, basically, who is just makes light of things, or he's one of the main reasons I lasted so long.
Speaker 4:One of my earliest experiences where I was just like I am so screwed was when Miscavige shut down the whole staff training area Because Ted Horner had escaped. So he blamed it on all of us and we were on this crazy long schedule and it's like if you're late once you go in the lake, if you're late twice you're going to go to the rehabilitation project course. And you know, 10-minute meal breaks run everywhere. You're complete bottom of the pile. And Mark and I had been married for maybe like six months and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm never going to make it through this. And he was like, it's OK, you're going to be fine, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 4:I was like it is that big of a deal? I can't do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was like.
Speaker 4:I was a hot mess. Oh, my goodness, oh, but mark had this unique way of just making it not quite as serious and not quite as earth shatteringly bad as it was, even if it was actually matt has that.
Speaker 2:My husband matt has that gift too yes, you know, it really is a gift it is a gift, yeah, it's like it's appreciated too. It's really appreciated. It's only messed up right now, it's in five minutes. It won't be messed up. Everything will be fine, exactly, it's.
Speaker 3:also. Don't worry about that. You're the one who's getting thrown under the bus, because it's going to be that person next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:One day. I'm wearing commander stripes. The next day I'm wearing a black boiler suit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that bus is just driving in a loop. It's going to get somebody else on the next one. You might even still be down when it comes. The next time you won't even be able to get hit again.
Speaker 3:That's a little cocky, I thought. I would always think, yeah, your turn's coming yeah coming.
Speaker 1:Every thought has gone through the head of every one of us many, many, many times, particularly when the new people would arrive that were brought as the latest and greatest Dave's pet who's come to demonstrate how great they are to the rest of the. Indians at the international headquarters.
Speaker 3:You haven't seen anything, dude. I've been assigned to the RPF. Four times. I've done every you know hard manual, everything that you could possibly do. I've been up and down and punished in every way imaginable. And here comes this newbie who's holier than thou? Oh my god, I just felt like throwing them.
Speaker 2:I don't know you're always, as soon as he brings them, like he, he shows them off when they first come and he's like look at my shiny new toys. And you're like oh yeah, they have not been battle tested yeah, they're in for some fun when they get to us when those guys come to tell me to do something, oh, I'm putting on a show for them.
Speaker 4:We're like start the calendar start the clock.
Speaker 3:Start the clock. It's a fast one.
Speaker 2:It's like Jenny. It was just like that. When Jenny and Angie came, it was like here they are. They kicked ass and flagged they're going to get this place. They're going to get you guys. I've told them what CI sea suckers, everything that you are. They're fully briefed and they're ready for you and you're like oh yeah, and then, six months later, jenny and Angie show up in my production area wearing T-shirts and jeans or something.
Speaker 2:And some lackey, you know some 13 year old girls bringing them to us, saying these COB said give them the dirtiest job you can think of and you're like yeah. I knew it Took you guys six months to get to these cleaning my paint buckets.
Speaker 1:There wasn't one person who came under those circumstances and survived Tom DeVock, not a single person.
Speaker 2:Angie Linson, angie Blankenship, debbie Cook it was every single person crash and burn, and every time they would end up they'd be working with us. Eventually, they'd just be one of the scumbag SPs. And then you're like you were shiny and new two years ago. I've been here for 15 years. Get comfy.
Speaker 3:You know, that's one of the reasons why I tried to treat everybody nicely, because I'm going to be chipping boulders one day and then I'm going to be wearing, you know, five stripes and whatever, and it's just like everyone's in the same bucket and it's an insane asylum bucket, and so you might as well try to get along.
Speaker 2:You know that's a good point, amy and I will say the four people that are in this chat right now that were at that place. I don't remember personally any of us being pricks to any of us.
Speaker 4:I do wish I wouldn't have sent my rings back to you though.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, you had to bring up the rings.
Speaker 4:I brought it up, not you. I just you know I was in a really tough spot.
Speaker 2:I was trying to make a positive take on this. But there are people there that they might not be on these chats, even if they left, because they were evil, and they were one of those people that came there to kick our asses and they thought they were above all of us. And they told us they were above all of us and then when they were with us it was sort of like you know, you were not cool and that's not cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah so there are people that that we would help any of them if they did leave and they needed some help. We would help them, but we might not be chatting with them on Fridays.
Speaker 4:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, ok, you ready for the next one? Yes, let's see how. About out pointy, everybody's out pointy, ok? What that means is far from the ideal scene, and the outpoints are. There's a whole list in the data. It's in the data series policy letters from L Ron Hubbard a whole list of what outpoints are, and it includes things like contrary facts, falsehoods and altered importances. So if somebody is outpointing, they're doing something weird or that wouldn't be considered on policy. So you call anybody outpointing.
Speaker 1:It's a Scientology euphemism for crazy.
Speaker 4:Yeah or not, fitting in and following the rules and acting out of character of the android seer mentality you're supposed to fit into.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that not fitting in. Yeah, because then you consider somebody like here he comes, he's so outpointy, yeah, he just doesn't fit in. He's wearing his pants a little high or whatever. It's just he's outpointed. He doesn't have anything to do with contrary facts or altered importances, but it's just a negative name to call somebody.
Speaker 4:Yeah, hey before you do the next one, do we have a strategy on addressing chats?
Speaker 1:I was just about to say yeah, We've got 4,000 questions here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, do you want to go ahead and do that?
Speaker 2:I've been starring them, but I was just going to say we could do some and then if some terms people have questions about some of the terms, then we could kind of answer some questions about the terms we've already asked yeah, we could save the rest for part two, right?
Speaker 1:We've got a whole long list more, yeah, people are interested, we could do more, yeah, yeah, I mean I could get through.
Speaker 3:I could get through the um general ones and then leave the um about cases, because there are so many different things that you would call a person with regards to their personal case and their being their thetan, and it's amazing how many those are. And that could be. It's a separate one and I'll just do the last one perfect, yeah, sounds good, okay, okay.
Speaker 3:So I'll go through the last of these. I'm going to skip a couple because we kind of got it um, so okay. So one or 2d oriented or fixated. So 1d is the first dynamic, which is yourself, your dynamic of self, and 2d is your family and sex and your family is the second dynamic. So when you tell, say, that somebody is either one or 2d oriented or fixated, it means that you're giving the wrong dynamics any sort of priority, because you should be third dynamic fixated, which is the group, and that's what you should have all your attention on and not worry about yourself or your family or anything like that. So, yeah, a lot of people are told that they are one D oriented because they want to go up the bridge or they want to do something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when I escaped, my mom wrote me a short email basically saying I have to disconnect now. But one of the things she said is I was 2D oriented and and I think you might have gotten it from me, because she was obviously saying that the only reason I escaped was to go be with Mark and I just, you know, you just let it go. And she, I mean she didn't, she didn't even know where I physically was for 14 years. She was such a stranger by that point, what are you going to say? But yeah, she, she called me that.
Speaker 2:I like the way she was thinking, though she had to get that loving. Claire had to get that loving out of Mark. That's why she escaped the cult.
Speaker 3:You had a misunderstood word. You thought the 2D-oriented was just sex.
Speaker 2:She wanted to get some of that loving.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Some of that jacking up the bus, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, so a tiger? A tiger is someone repeatedly associated with goofed projects, not qualified permissions or executive positions, so you would get labeled by an issue labeling you a tiger, did you guys?
Speaker 2:ever see one of those at the base.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I did who? I never saw one I'd never, saw. I don't know the one that I always remember is Gary Weesey, but he was not he was not labeled a tiger.
Speaker 4:He was labeled like belligerent, like no, no, no, no Encourageable, that's right.
Speaker 2:Literally it just said but that was it, guys, these issues were very official said religious technology center yeah, rtc, order 72. And then it said all base, that was the distribution. And then it just said gary, we see, incorrigible chairman of the board. Religious technology center.
Speaker 3:That was it yep, and then it was reissued, like two years later.
Speaker 2:Yes, like reprinted and distributed.
Speaker 3:It was issued in 1993.
Speaker 2:And that was during the edit of the IAS. We won the IRS. What do you recall?
Speaker 3:The War is Over. The War is.
Speaker 4:Over event.
Speaker 2:And the new issue was issued when we had the New Year's 2000 event and we did it at the exact same place and did the same type of event and the edit went as horrible as it did in 1993. And David Miscavige just said reissued it. You know, january 2020, whatever it was.
Speaker 3:I knew it was reissued.
Speaker 2:And it was the same exact issue for this same exact thing Editing an event video.
Speaker 3:I love your photographic memory. That's awesome. Yes, Well, also.
Speaker 2:I was involved with both of those videos, so I was in the hot seat both times too.
Speaker 4:It's funny, though I just just just a side comment. I haven't heard that term tiger in a few years. Of course, thinking about it now like from from out, here in the real world, it seems so counterintuitive, like what's wrong with being a tiger? Right, like you want to get something done or something yeah, like oh, you're just not a submissive, obedient android, but you're a tiger, and that's a bad thing.
Speaker 3:Yep it doesn't make none of this make sense. It's just, of course not. It's just yeah, here's the next one seedy weedy. So that means seedy weedy people would be called seedy weedy all the time and um. It just basically means that they're super significant goody-goody and don't have any confront.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're turning green. It's like Pollyanna, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So you could say I love you and they're like that's so seedy-weedy.
Speaker 4:I got called seedy-weedy the night by David Miscavige. I should say oh, that's the story you were thinking of, mark.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, okay, when you were saying the worker-oriented thing, Claire.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:No. So the night I got kicked out of Religious Technology Center, the reason for which is that I refused to divorce. Mark Miscavige came back to the property that day and Valerie Haney at the time was his steward, and I had spent four months with Valerie helping her recover from a broken leg. That's a whole separate story. But either way, I considered her a friend and when they got back I went up to her, I gave her a big hug and I was like, oh my gosh, it's amazing to see you. Yada, yada, yada. Somehow, someway that this interaction got back to David Miscavige and so, when he was coming through our offices saying you're out you're out and he's like and you're a?
Speaker 3:thitty-weety. Bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, you're out. Yep, that was me, because you liked somebody and you cared about them. Yes, and because I gave her a hug. That was me, because you liked somebody and you cared about them, yes.
Speaker 4:And because I gave her a hug. Because how could I possibly give someone a hug when we were all in deep dark, out of ethics, lower conditions, yeah.
Speaker 3:Terrible. Okay, so this is used very often as well. You're 1-1. And 1-1 is 1.1 on the tone scale, scientology's tone scale of different emotions and what that means it stands for. It's covert hostility. So it's basically someone smiling while they're holding a knife behind their back. You know wanting to stab you, but they're, but outwardly they're like looking nice or whatever. And so people are called one one all the time, like because you're not, they don't think that you're saying what you really mean, or I don't even know why. Why did we always call people?
Speaker 1:Because, because it is a highly derogatory, probably the most derogatory level on the tone scale, because Hubbard says this is where the sexual pervert lives is at 1.1. And so he defined that as homosexuals, child molesters. Anybody that did anything other than engage in heterosexual missionary style sex was deviant. And so the implication of being called one-one is more than just you're going to stab someone in the back, although that is kind of what it means You're going to stab someone in the back. Although that is kind of what it means. It's also that you're a pervert, that you're a deviant, that you're like someone to be sort of despised or even pitied. You're like a real dregs of society kind of individual who should be hubbard put in science of survival. The solution to people like that is to remove them from society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they did with the lepers like like venezuelan dictator did when he rounded up all the lepers and he had them basically murdered. So and it's all, yeah, because he got rid of all the one ones. So it's, it's a very, very um uh, it's super derogatory yeah, I did it.
Speaker 3:I did a complete compilation of all the different things on that exact point. It'd be a very interesting video in itself. I prepared it for another thing, um zoom thing I was doing with someone else, but it's really interesting, um, and it's extremely derogatory to humanity, basically yeah, I was just going to say.
Speaker 2:One last little thing is even on the illustrated scale. It's called the tone scale. They have a little picture for each tone and at covert hostility, one one. They have a little guy smiling, but he's holding a knife behind his back that he's gripping the tech dictionary too. Yeah, like he's gonna stab you in the back as soon as you walk away so that is their kind of yeah, that's in their. In a nutshell, illustration is a little backs little, little kind of like slimy backstabber guy yep, another back flasher yeah yeah, yeah, not.
Speaker 2:To be used with a front flasher okay, two more.
Speaker 3:So here's one which is ethics bait, and we were, we were called ethics bait, um, and it's basically someone who's prone to get in trouble. I think mark was mainly labeled thank you, he was prone to get in trouble all the time because it was j and d, right yeah oh yeah, I'm an abbreviation salad.
Speaker 3:And this, this one, I wanted to. This next one, which will be the final one before we take questions, is a regular word, but the way Scientologists, especially in this, your use it is not which is victim, and a victim, in Scientology terms, is someone who operates at effect in life. So you would say stop being a victim if they're saying you know this hurts and so I don't. You know I can't do that because my foot hurts or I broke my ankle. Stop being a victim and get it done. You know, or like like Debbie Hughes being pushed around this tree on the running program I was talking about the other day. You can't be a victim, you have to just make it go right and get it done. So the way it's used is so destructive in Scientology.
Speaker 4:Yes, and circling back to the tone scale on that one. So we were talking about how one point, one cover hostility is bad. The tone scale the highest point is 40. The lowest point is minus 40. So we're talking 1.1 is very negative. Victim is 0.1, which is just above 0.0, which is body death.
Speaker 3:Body death yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's definitely frowned upon. Any sort of attitude of um, attitude of it can't be done, um, or any delay whatsoever in in or counterintention whatsoever. It just you're a victim and it's not okay and it right away just slams you down and and you are made to um, figure out what lower condition you're in because you're being a victim and it's sad. Because they are victims in Scientology. You know they are victims. They're victims of abuse, they're victims of torture, they're victims of you know all kinds of things like this. You know all kinds of things like this, and but the way Scientology uses it, it's it stops any sort of thought or anything of anything besides what Scientology wants you to believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and this is exactly how circumstances like what we have all heard about in the Danny Masterson case come up. Belt in the Danny Masterson case come up when someone in Scientology is abused by another Scientologist for them to raise that as. Look what happened to me. Someone did something to me that was bad. They are treated as if there is something wrong with them because they are being victims, and being a victim in Scientology is tantamount to being a person who has given up and is intent upon sucking everybody else into their demise. I mean, scientologists believe that victims are going to drag them down too, that they're going to be somehow sucked into this vortex of victimhood and become lesser and incapable and unhappy because they have associated with, or what's called granted beingness to victims yeah, it's almost.
Speaker 2:It's almost brainwashed into them that if somebody around you is a victim and is doing badly and poorly, you need to abandon them. You need to get them as far away from you as possible so you don't get stuck to their messes and and and any part of their problems become your problems. You have to basically abandon them, jump, get, kick them off the ship, get rid of them and kick them to the curb, otherwise they're going to suck you down.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's really horrible. Actually, Somebody asked you know what do they think about empathy? There is no empathy.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's as low as you can be on the tone scale. Is empathy, that's that's a horrible thing in Scientology.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sympathy and empathy are almost considered to be the same thing, and sympathy Hubbard writes extensively about this in one of his earlier books sympathy is a dramatization of death. I mean literally sympathy for someone. Just think about that.
Speaker 3:It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:But this is the hardest thing to get people who are not Scientologists to understand some of these concepts that are so ingrained in Scientology and so ingrained in Scientologists. They don't even think about them, they don't even think that there is something odd about it. They don't, they, they, they wouldn't even get into an argument with you about it. It's just, that's just the way things are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's how it's easy for parents or children or siblings or relatives to just completely disconnect and never talk to that person ever again. Because even feeling the tiniest amount of emotion would mean that you're sympathizing with a victim or you're you're granting some sort of beingness or granting some sort of acknowledging to this person who's done something bad against Scientology. If you get any of that, that's bad on you, that's something that's going to. You're going to get labeled for that, so you have to just pretend they don't even exist in your life and just forget about them forever because they're an SP or they're a victim or whatever.
Speaker 3:It was actually hard, after so many years of that being the mindset, to come into the world and somebody is sympathetic or even trying to be sympathetic and compassionate. It actually was. I had to have a major transformation for that to change Even our families.
Speaker 2:Amy, when we met our families who we didn't even really know like they'd never metire and we'd been married for 12 years none of my, my, uh, my family on my father's side who wasn't involved with scientology. They hadn't really met us. But when we went and met with them and we went to thanksgiving dinner and stuff, they said the whole time that we were in scientology, that they had put us on their prayer lists, that that we would one day escape from that and you're like why, why, why, why did the?
Speaker 2:why did they do that? They didn't, didn't even know us. It was my goal to know that we were complete.
Speaker 4:I mean, they'd never met me at all. We're like wow and so you think like that's not what they teach us in Scientology.
Speaker 2:These guys are supposed to be worshiping this. You know this person, this deity, that was a child, you know attacker and all these other things, and you're like that's. They're not like that at all. They were on their prayer list that we would escape from that horrible place, and they didn't even know how horrible of a place it was.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right, right but but you're right amy, back to the point. You reminded me that for a few years it was very hard for me to talk about anything that happened because the reactions for people, from people to something that you know I lived with it, I somewhat came to terms with it. I definitely had bottled it up and shut it away and then just saying it matter of factly and these people would just crumble in front of me. I'm like how do I process this?
Speaker 3:Oh my God, people always thought I was mad at them because I was emphatic. I said I said the S word one time just at work and like that person wrote me up to the top management, you know, because you just don't do that, you don't like it. It was just integrating back into society was super hard and um, but anyway, yeah, I mean the profession that I went into. I really got to learn about compassion and also spending. I. I I took care of my mom, inice, my mother-in-law in hospice and my brother-in-law's mom in hospice those three beautiful women separately. You know, and boy, if that doesn't teach you compassion and learning how to love and be there for somebody in their time of need, I don't know what will. So I think I consider it a blessing that I was able to do that. For sure, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Well said.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, it's question time.
Speaker 3:Xenu Poo Poo, I see.
Speaker 2:Xenu Poo Poo.
Speaker 4:What are you saying?
Speaker 2:What are you talking about, geez Amy? Yeah take it easy.
Speaker 1:Japan of Green Gables. That's a clever name. Jack loves that show. Have your boys watched that? Claire, no, green Gables no, jack loves it. He's watching it for the second time.
Speaker 4:Wow, I'll check it out.
Speaker 1:Hi Mike, it's really good. I watched it all with him the first time. It's very good. It's well written, acted, directed and has good messages.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Anyway, hi Mike, hi Amy, can you talk about Heba Gentian, his first wife? All that is ever talked about is how he is missing. I hear he was a really nice guy, as was she. Can you guys? Talk about what? Well, we probably need to do a whole episode about the disappeared at gold and the other people.
Speaker 1:Heber's first wife was Yvonne Gillum and she passed away many, many years ago. Heber, I spent probably out of everybody here, I've spent the most amount of time with HIPAA For sure, like for many, many, many, many years, and I have a lot to say about that and he is one of the people. He and Guillaume Le Serve. He is one of the people. He and Guillaume Le Serve are probably the two people that I feel the most draw to do something to help who remain in the Sea Hogs still. Not that I wouldn't help anybody, but those two were very close friends that I spent a lot of time with. He was a funny, nice, gentle, caring person. So I don't know what else to say about that right now. Do you guys have anything to add?
Speaker 3:No, but I noted that. Yeah, we'll take that up in a separate video. Yeah, there's more to say.
Speaker 1:Okay, see you Be ill's more to say Okay. C-o-b, ilf Loved East Anderson. Just read Mike's book, listened to. Has anyone pointed out the parallels between Mike Rinder and St Paul? Why Adventures at Sea inspiring 180 degree turn when the truth became undeniable? No, nobody ever pointed that out. Before I'm going to start calling, no, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, st Mike.
Speaker 1:Yuli 123. An hour ago, my birthday officially ended. My birthday wasn't great, but at least you were streaming Greetings from Germany.
Speaker 4:Happy birthday. Happy birthday, I hope we've made your birthday a little more enjoyable. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, sorry, my bad, andrew Humphrey. Mike, I saw an A&E doc where a clean-shaven MR was spewing lies and nonsense. Glad to see a bearded truth-teller now spewing lies and nonsense. Glad to see a bearded truth teller now Well, thank you. By the way, that A&E doc is very interesting. It was done by a woman named Heidi Ewing. She was the producer of that episode and I became friends with her. She is now an extraordinarily successful documentary filmmaker who has made some absolutely amazing films. Look her up. Film company is called Loki L-O-K-I Loki Films.
Speaker 4:Nice, cool Okay.
Speaker 1:Chi-Town Native question. What kind of trouble would you be in if you forgot the COS lingo? Hi, everyone. Remember to hit like and subscribe to all channels. Wait, aaron, okay.
Speaker 4:I wish we could forget the lingo.
Speaker 3:I know I'm married to an ex-CEORC member, so that makes it hard. My dog's trying to give me his lingo.
Speaker 4:We all are.
Speaker 2:We all are Amy. Yeah, we all are silly goose.
Speaker 1:It was A-A-Ron.
Speaker 3:I didn't mean just me.
Speaker 2:Mine's right over there somewhere. Where is she? There she is.
Speaker 3:She's right down there, here's a story about a lovely lady.
Speaker 1:Okay, catherine Olsen, hi Catherine. Someone in the flag bureau once got a giant Dempsey stamp on his face. He was told not to wash it off for the whole day.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a Tuesday in Los Angeles in the seahorse folks 100%.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I guarantee that RTC person had to take a photo and send it to.
Speaker 3:David for scourge. Yeah, this is how we're getting ethics in.
Speaker 1:Lisa Robinson. Is the COS still doing the knock-on-on criminal? Yes, but not very successfully. Barely, they are shriveling fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to make money when all you're doing is writing checks.
Speaker 1:Settling lawsuits Threshly. I absolutely love all of you and the resilience you have. I tried to get in touch before but had no luck. I went to a Scientology school as a log Chesapeake Ability Academy oh wow. Well, you can write to me on my blog Threshly.
Speaker 4:Or write to me too. I'm here.
Speaker 1:Okay, kat Mandu, can someone go clear and quit Suggestions, cautions I know someone who has prepaid many thousands for a bridge package but doesn't want to get sucked into OTs. Help appreciated, thanks. Oh, don't bother doing anything further, just quit, walk away. Yeah, no cautions, no suggestions. Leave. Run Fast as you can Get away before they get more of your money.
Speaker 2:And if you want to get your money back, there's a lawyer named Graham Berry who might be the most successful getter back of money in from Scientology. I think they've written this lawyer more checks than any other single lawyer in the history of Scientology.
Speaker 1:Okay, resell a rowboat. Mike and Mark, was it hard narrating your own books? Did you want to add or change anything while you were reading? Huh, no, I didn't find it hard, in fact I didn't.
Speaker 2:I didn't find it either, but I did find a lot of typos. Yeah, I didn't find it either, but I did find a lot of typos. Yeah, I didn't, but you know I didn't Well, you had a big zippity zippity publisher company. I had me and Claire. Yeah, claire, and I See, that's what happened Me and Claire.
Speaker 3:I am my ninth grade education, so my book oh yes, amy, good Hold, scientology Abuse at the Top. Where's Dave on there On the cover there, right there? So I just got it produced in paperback. This is a proof, so I'll have it in the next couple days and I'm going to be the only one yeah, so I'm going to be the only one that sells the paperback. I'm going to do it directly and I'm going to do little games and stuff like that on the different videos to send them out to people and stuff like that. So that's going to be made available and it's got an updated picture, cause the other one from 2009 was like old, but anyway so anyway.
Speaker 3:so that's coming out. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Good. How do people order amy?
Speaker 2:um, it's going to be through scoby publishing at gmailcom scoby publishing so scoby, publishing your orders right now yeah, if they want to, yeah, they can, they can write that yeah put a link in your just put a link in your description, amy, and, and then that way people can email you and tell them how long they have to send you the book.
Speaker 1:Okay. I will I will Get you some orders.
Speaker 2:Good point or at least some reservations.
Speaker 3:Yes, wow, they'll be signed by me and by my husband, matt. Nice, nice, yeah, he just volunteered. He said Mark and Claire signed their book. You want me to sign the book with you?
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. Okay, I want to make it up to you with tags that say things like sexy Australian man and delightful cracker enthusiast. That's so funny. Oh, that is great Delightful cracker enthusiast. That's so funny. That is great Delightful cracker enthusiast. Okay, Goldie backflasher, that sounds naughty. Yes, it does. Bellata Amy seems like such a pure spirit. I agree with you Well with you.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you you don't seem that way. She is. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, snotface. I had chat BGPT write me all sorts of short stories about DM being angry about not being able to reach the top shelf, being on a roller coaster. They are hilarious. Yeah, he's going to go on a roller coaster. They are hilarious. Yeah, chat GPT is like definitely a happening scene, donna Rose question. Odds that the Masterson jury could be sequestered if meddling is discovered. So grateful for you guys and your dedication. No idea, I haven't got a clue. Sorry, just don't know, Mark hello from Russia.
Speaker 2:Hello yeah.
Speaker 1:We're not saying hello, not from Russia, amelia. Oh wait, am I in the starred ones?
Speaker 3:yeah, no, oh you are. Do you want me to help mike?
Speaker 2:I've starred a few other.
Speaker 1:I've starred a few other ones that weren't super chats no, I just suddenly I went oh, am I in the wrong little bit of my screen? I realize I could be starring.
Speaker 3:if I wanted to too, Wow.
Speaker 1:OVA means bad and damaging. Ova means to do something openly, plainly out in the open Right right. That's the Freudian stuff. Lol, Something that is bad. Be COVID, underhanded Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good point, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay. Erica M question how did you budget your $45 a week? I know housing etc is covered, but even clothes, hygiene, haircuts, glasses how did you make it work? Or what did you go without? Oh, a lot I bought cigarettes honestly.
Speaker 2:I was going to say I literally bought cigarettes. Yeah, cigarettes and caffeine. Those are the two ingredients you needed.
Speaker 3:You had to have it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nicotine and caffetine.
Speaker 3:That's it.
Speaker 2:You're good.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Tony Cameron COS wins title for most crazy titles in one place. Yes, most crazy titles. Steph, if you do something bad on the download, then it's a covert overt oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:I like that they call that a withhold. Yes, good catch.
Speaker 1:So in other words you have to confess twice. I like that. They call that a withhold. Yes, good catch.
Speaker 4:So in other words, you have to confess twice, first to the overt the thing you did, and then to the fact of withholding it.
Speaker 3:That's right. And if someone almost finds out. It's called a missed withhold.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, we have some truth or consequences here.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh, what do we got?
Speaker 1:Nancy Hansen can you guys tell your age? Ooh.
Speaker 3:Can you tell what our ages are?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's see the guesses in the comments. Let's do that.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:If anybody guesses all of us right, then we will read the comment.
Speaker 4:Oh Mark, how are you going to? That's brutal. They have to get all four. It's like the comment.
Speaker 2:Oh Mark, that's brutal. They have to get all four. It's like the lottery If you win, we'll read it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was trying to keep track of who was responding Sure.
Speaker 2:It's all good, you were going to let it slide.
Speaker 3:No, I like this person not touching that.
Speaker 2:I was going to say it's going to be all these people that are like Mark's 25, mike's 23, claire's 21, and Amy's 21.
Speaker 4:Let me do that 24, 25, 26, 27. You're all 21, right?
Speaker 2:See, that's why I knew they wouldn't do it, see. That's funny, mark's 87 oh my god, somebody said mark's 46 because he said he's the same age as shakira. No, I said she was about our age. Oh wow, there's some people that are really hitting it pretty close, though I want to say oh wait, what was that one? Um, they're flying by oh they're flying by.
Speaker 4:This is kind of funny. I love that this community is so into playing games like games.
Speaker 1:It's pretty awesome it is pretty amazing. You just ask for one thing and suddenly there's a you know hundreds of people all responding with their own little takes on stuff.
Speaker 3:It's pretty funny yeah, you're all over 50 well, I will admit to that I'm not yeah, neither am I.
Speaker 2:Thank you somebody's googling it. Yeah, you know, people are getting their Google foo on right now. Who is the fastest Googler?
Speaker 3:I think this Mary S is on the Google, must be on the Google.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So Apollonia Paradise Do Scientologists vote in federal elections? How about ex-Scientologists? Well, scientologists do vote in federal elections. Do vote in federal elections. That's a whole other subject, too, of how they vote and why they vote the way they do. Generally, scientologists vote according to one. There is one driving factor that Scientologists use to determine how they vote, and that is is one person or party pro-psychiatry or anti-psychiatry? That is a defining factor that Scientologists use to vote, and generally that means that they vote, in the United States, republican, because Republicans tend to be anti-government funded healthcare and Democrats tend to be pro-government funded healthcare, and government funded healthcare includes mental healthcare, so therefore, they don't want to have anything to do with that, and there was a whole bunch of other stuff that Hubbard said about governments and about welfare, and so, yes, they do vote as to that.
Speaker 3:And I was just going to say like at the base, I was lived there for 20 years. I never knew anybody. So you're just kind of told like any anyone running you know, but you're just kind of told this is who we want, and so you go and do your thing. But literally. I mean I remember David Miscavige asked me one time who's the governor of California, a place I lived in California for 20 years.
Speaker 3:No idea, you know, we didn't know these things at all. I mean, I could barely tell you who the president was, but so it was. It was one of these things where it has nothing to do with us. Oh, so you should tell us who we all should vote for, and then we go and do or do that, right Sorry.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I never voted just because I was a resident alien the whole time and I finally became a US citizen a couple of years ago.
Speaker 3:You were a major alien.
Speaker 2:But I remember at the base, an issue would come out and it would say this is the candidate, this is their pro psychiatry. This is the other candidate. They're not. They've never said anything, but it doesn't look like they support psychiatry. That's all it said. But that was code for don't vote for this one, vote for this one. And they would list the whole thing like that. So you would get and it would be exactly how the ballot was laid out, so you would just go into the booth and you'd look and you'd be like, okay, that's how you'd vote, yep okay, next jeff pearl jam in scientology.
Speaker 1:Are you persuaded to support Yep? Okay, next Jeff Pearljam In Scientology. Are you persuaded to support actors and musicians Jason Lee Beck, jenna Elfman when they have movies and music out, and reject them if they leave? Yeah, I guess. I mean obviously, when Tom Cruise movies came out, the whole Scientologists were expected to go and watch them.
Speaker 3:Well, in the Sea Org when Battlefield Earth came out, we had to go see it three times in a row and we sat in the movie theater and just slept, because we never slept.
Speaker 2:I snuck out and went and saw Gladiator, which is a far better movie. Do you remember, though?
Speaker 4:too, that we also all went and saw gladiator, which is a far better movie. Do you remember, though, too, that we also all went and saw far and away?
Speaker 2:just once, not three times, yeah yeah, also went and saw pulp fiction oh, I didn't, we didn't go see, I didn't see pulp fiction, far and away.
Speaker 3:We did see, and then three times battlefield earth and I was always trying to, you know, follow the rules. So I didn't go sneaking into other theaters like Mark, mr J.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, no. After that first round I was like, oh, that's not happening again. I'm going to see that Russell Crowe movie.
Speaker 3:Because we never got to go do stuff like that. So that was our only outing, and it was an enforced outing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Katutogi wrote if you had a time machine and went back to younger versions of your souls to warn them of the evils of Scientology, would you have listened to them?
Speaker 4:No, yeah, that's a tough question. I would have my myself back then, would have really wanted to listen to my time travel self, but I don't know that I could have only if my time travel self brought some lottery numbers, then maybe we would see. Yeah, that's funny I think that.
Speaker 2:I think that our experience has made us who we are, and I agree well, I always say, if I didn't go there then I wouldn't have met claire, then we wouldn't have the kids right. So it's like there's a lot you gotta, you gotta slide in with it, you just gotta but what we can do is warn everybody.
Speaker 3:Don't make the mistake of walking into that place. It's a trap.
Speaker 2:The one thing I would tell myself is you can never get the time back. So when I even that's what I tell people now there was a guy that watches our videos that I emailed 17 years ago and tried to get him to leave, and he and I kept emailing him. I kept emailing me and he finally he was ignoring me. But then finally he answered and said please stop harassing me and my family. And so after that I'm like I'm out, I'm done. I tried, and now he wrote to me and he goes. I so wish I would have listened to you.
Speaker 3:I know dude Cause it was 17 years.
Speaker 2:It's gone, it's gone. The 17 years is gone.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is this a religion or a military school Right?
Speaker 2:It's very close. It's like Davies Navy.
Speaker 3:It's a quasi-military. It's not even a religion.
Speaker 2:It's a cheap imitation of both.
Speaker 1:Bobby and Andiel Mike. With the existence of BTs, who can you punish? How can you punish anyone? It always could have been the BTs, not them doing the punishable action. Yeah well, see, this is one of the tricks of BTs.
Speaker 3:Nobody knows it, though Nobody knows about BTs hardly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, but even those who do, you can't use them as an excuse, like they are actually the excuse for everything, according to Hubbard. But you can't use your transgressions or the things that someone wants to punish you for. You can't say, oh, that was a BT that made me do it solonauts. And all of that is about how these things unduly influence you to do things that are not yourself yeah so it's yeah but it doesn't apply as a staff member somehow at all or even a Scientologist.
Speaker 1:It doesn't apply. You can't walk into the ethics office and yeah, the reason why I did X, y and Z that you're commenting me for is because my DTs told me to do it.
Speaker 3:It's like you don't believe the technology. You know Exactly that's exactly what.
Speaker 1:That's sort of the point I'm trying to make, amy. On one hand it is the explanation for everything, and you're supposed to be paying tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars to relieve yourself of this, but, on the other hand, you're going to use it as an excuse I love it.
Speaker 3:I I never.
Speaker 1:I just had a cognition right oh, the room has gotten brighter, jude morrow, I never realized that sorry for a guy who spends millions on hair and makeup. It's weird why Wee Dave doesn't have a babe. Farm LRH didn't either. They're the only cult leaders who didn't. Would they have impotent body things?
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, the BTs made me sterile. Oh, my goodness, the BTs made me sterile.
Speaker 1:Rural SD lawyer. Lawyers have their own lingo too. When your kids ask you to do something, motion denied, they ask you to ask and answer.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm going to use that motion denied.
Speaker 2:Motion denied, I'm going to use asked and answered. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Can da-da-da-da no.
Speaker 2:Knowing my kids, why, Knowing my kids, they would literally be like can I get a sidebar please?
Speaker 1:I'm taking this up on appeal. Yeah 86, gop Claire Amy. I'm taking this up on appeal. Yeah 86, gop, claire amy. I recently went back and watched the cringeworthy dm interview with couple. I noticed that dm referred to women as girls twice within minutes of one another. Was this a common faux pas?
Speaker 4:uh, the faux pas were far worse than that in yeah, that was the c word was hurled around on a regular basis. Yeah, yeah and yes, that was.
Speaker 2:That was the uh public acceptable version yeah, the milk toast yeah, oh, yeah, no he would see you next tuesday was a very, uh, frequent word out of david miscavige yeah, I don't know what that means, but don't explain it.
Speaker 3:But no, um, like he one time he had um, all the uh, I don't know what see you next tuesday means. Is that something that's?
Speaker 1:me, amy you are.
Speaker 2:So it's in the, it's in the um, it's in the private chat amy, okay, okay if we're doing work clearing.
Speaker 4:I don't know what it means either. Okay, it's in the private chat.
Speaker 2:Here you go.
Speaker 3:Just go to the private chat, you can see okay we'll check it out, nice um, but anyway oh my oh, I see um, and the other thing I was going to say is one time I I mean David Miscavige, yeah, he doesn't have any respect for women One time he lined up all the ladies in the watchdog committee and had us all turn around so we could look at our asses, and then he said, yep, that's what I thought. And so we're like what that we have a swivel chair spread or like what? Why is it just like walked out? So now we're all in mystery about our butts. I mean, he's just an ass.
Speaker 2:He walked in. He did that into management.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and watched our committee. Oh, he did all kinds of stuff he talked about. Oh, I can't even. Yeah, yeah, it was bad.
Speaker 2:Yikes, that's crazy. I didn't even know he did that, yikes.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. I didn't even know he did that. I haven't heard that one either.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I've been hearing all kinds of crazy stuff in my new series that hopefully will get started next week. I hope we'll see.
Speaker 3:Yes, Okay, denise Brown Amy.
Speaker 1:Claire, would it be possible to do an interview with Nancy Maney? Her story is quite interesting.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely, I think so. We'll add it to our ever-growing list of things to do.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Hey, Jeff, Hi Jeff.
Speaker 2:Hey Jeff.
Speaker 1:I was called all of those things at one time, usually embellished with a swear word yeah, as were we all.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Usually embellished with many swear words.
Speaker 3:Yes, Betsy Hansen.
Speaker 1:Mike mentioned an older gentleman that has not been seen in years. I'm wondering can APS Adult Protective Services be called to check on some of the forgotten elders instead of LAPD? Cps or APS is usually unstoppable question mark. I'm really not sure of the answer to this, but I suspect you probably it is possible. If there is a family member who is willing to reach out to those services and give some details and specifics as to why they would like to have that check done, I think that's a great idea. I think that if there are family members like, just a random member of the public doesn't have much chance of pulling this off, but a family member certainly does, and so if there are family members out there, please don't advertise it. You don't have to make a big splash about it. But if you really care about the people, then take steps that you can to perhaps find out and maybe offer something to those people who could use a hand.
Speaker 2:Use the hand. Yeah, at worst case scenario they could actually have your relative contact you where you could let them know. Hey, if you ever are going to go on vacation or you're ever when you plan to retire, if you want to come stay with us, you can always come. You know, that might be a way just for them to be able to get word from you that there is a place for that for them to go. If they were to retire, or if you haven't heard from them, hey, we'd love to just hear from you on a regular basis, and Scientology in a lot of cases would oblige to not create a public relations situation, so they would encourage the person. Hey, you need to go see them for a week or you need to go and visit with them so that there's not a situation, and sometimes that's how the seed can get planted for them to leave.
Speaker 3:It's never because they want you to be in touch with your family. It's so that there's no bad PR for Scientology. That's the only reason.
Speaker 2:Which, ironically, will sometimes help people get in touch with their family.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To avoid a public relations flap. There have been many people who do go to go on what's called a leave, or go to a wedding, or go to a birthday or some kind of family reunion, and they never return.
Speaker 1:Yep, Fabian and DL. How do Scientologies can work so many hours without going insane? Who says they don't go insane? Yeah, exactly we did, we all went insane like I, and I mean I mean like literally incapable of thinking straight. Yeah, like you would reach it yeah. No, but you would reach the point of not being able to be coherent at times, like literally, and that is going crazy.
Speaker 2:That's also how you don't leave when things are insane, because you're not thinking correctly and you can't. You can't understand why all that, you cannot process it, so you can't make a cause, a causative decision to leave because it's you don't know. You have no way of getting out of this craziness in your mind even yeah, like keep us numb by by keeping it's, it's torture actually.
Speaker 1:Sylvia Gross Devty is babysitting in Wog World Means I gotta follow behind you and make sure you do your job so I can do my job, because you're a child and need supervision.
Speaker 4:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay, apollonia Paradise. I've been following anti-Scientology blog shows since John Sweeney 2007, doc. I was wondering why I couldn't understand the lingo. I thought it was me Not, oh, no, okay, fabian, did you ever meet a left Scientologist, communist socialist? Oh, meaning a left-leaning Scientologist? Oh, I'm sure there's left-leaning Scientologists. Yeah, I don't know about communist socialists Communism and socialism are Hubbard-like swear words.
Speaker 2:almost yeah, isn was an technical degrades or keeping scientology working where he brings up, uh, socialism and communism and yeah, or in many places, if you're a real psychologist.
Speaker 3:You're not going to be a communist or a socialist, no, you're going to be nothing besides a scientologist like you don't have any other concept besides scientology and every the whole world of Scientology. That's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I was just going to say if there's a politician who's not their party, the same party affiliation as them, and they support Scientology, they'll go whole hog on that person. They don't care what their affiliation is, even if they lean one way or the other. It's just like any other thing. They say you can be a Christian or a Jewish or anything. They don't. As long as the person is promoting Scientology, they'll, uh, they'll, they'll, they'll, support whatever they're selling crazy water or they believe in whatever. As long as they can give them money or some kind of power. Great, we love you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, okay, hi Mark, hi guys, great show. Janice and I have a new show dropping this weekend. Thanks for your help. Yay, tune in, guys. I didn't even know what mark and janice's do you do?
Speaker 3:any of you guys know what their youtube channel is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I'm dealing stories peeling the onion onion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's right so go check it out everybody. More the merrier, More stories about the real inside scoop on what happens in Scientology, the better.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Angela Booster just sending hugs around XX, thank you. Thank you, angela, nice sending hugs around XX.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you, angela.
Speaker 1:Nice Deity, weedy, stop face. Does Scientology still donate books to libraries? Do members use them? Public libraries here I put aftermath cards in the books. Nice, you rock. And yes, they do. They don't care about the books getting into the libraries. That's actually a long, long gone concept. What they care about is selling the books so that they can make the money.
Speaker 1:So that they can have their stats up Because the number of books sold is a stat that the people in the pubs have, so that they have to keep it going up, but it's also something that David Miscavige loves to talk about at the international events. So, oh, we've sold, you know, 74,000 books this month, and what, what, what, and those books are in a dumpster.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when they tell the stat the stat of the ones that go to libraries books sent to libraries it's not books in libraries, because a lot of times when libraries get them they just dump them in the garbage too, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, did Dave ever call Shelly any of those terms?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I didn't hear it.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely he did.
Speaker 1:Erica, did any of you think it was odd that years went by without new OT levels? Why do you think that's not a tip-off to current people that something is wrong? Yeah, because current people are current, because they still believe that something is. There's always something just over the horizon that is going to make Scientology what it has been promised to them that it would be Like it is the ultimate game of the donkey with the carrot. There is always something in the future and Scientologists are incredibly willing to accept that. And Scientologists are incredibly willing to accept that. Yeah, we know that. Ron said in 1950 that you will be something that's just about to come that will make that possible and make it all happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a never-ending bait and switch.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, destiny Sellers are so excited to get my bobblehead from Monday's Live Decided to pay it forward on the SP shop. Keep the love going, thank you.
Speaker 4:Yes, we have all kinds of giveaways ready for Monday.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, okay, yes, great Granted. In truth, Scientology Sea Org is actual torture and slave labor. Can I say that on YouTube? Bless you and all you identify with this abuse. Yes, it is.
Speaker 2:It is what it is, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sea Org members make an average of 36 cents an hour, which is less than what's considered slave wages.
Speaker 1:I'm in the middle of listening to Mike's book and it's so well written and read. Mark's and Amy's book are next. Claire, will yours come as audio too?
Speaker 4:Yes, Mark has to help me out with that. But yes, that's my intention.
Speaker 2:No problem. And.
Speaker 1:I have to finish writing at first too, yeah, Kathy Ann, after you got out, did you have health issues you didn't know about from being in COS and not having insurance, proper health care, any lasting problems from the hard labor and lack of sleep?
Speaker 3:My doctor said have you ever considered suing Scientology Because my test results were so bad that they said I can't even believe you can get out of bed? In the morning I had zero, zero thyroid. And if you look at, go on my channel and look at my St Pete Times videos, you can see this is before I figured out what the heck was going on with me. You can see the difference because my body was just literally shutting down and the doctor, you know, I mean I had to get on all kinds of different things and it's all under control now, but boy, that was.
Speaker 3:That was definitely a scare and I think that one of the things not only the lack of sleep and all the other stuff, and but I also think that that purification program that they put us on for eight months straight, sitting in that sauna for five hours a day with 5 000 milligrams of niacin I just I couldn't get out of it, taking 5 000 every day every single 5 000 milligrams of niacin every single day, anyway, my body was really yeah oh my goodness, yeah, that's not no yeah, my doctor says I have the the hips and knees of a 90 year old arthritic.
Speaker 2:Uh guys, right, yeah yeah, I destroyed my hips and knees, just just destroyed them I.
Speaker 4:I broke my legs so bad they'd never tell me they wouldn't tell me I'd be able to walk again. That was while I was still there. Yep yep obviously I can walk perfectly fine now. But yeah, thank god thank god, uh you not only walk, you run yes, yeah, I tell people, running up that mountain is my therapy.
Speaker 2:It's excellent yeah, claire, ran to the top of pike's peak one time, so yeah wow, yeah she's a crazy person yeah, yeah, we're talking stacy.
Speaker 1:Why, oh stacy? Why, amy, wasn't sure if mike had given you a bobblehead, since you're also close in proximity and friends. Lol, re-g-gift If you have one already.
Speaker 3:I don't have one already, it's my first one.
Speaker 2:He did not give me one, To be fair we have all the bobbleheads in Colorado, cause we're the ones that make them and we're the ones that sell them.
Speaker 4:So come on, we and we don't give them away for free. They're fundraisers.
Speaker 2:So, I'm kind of trying to raise money.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thank you Stacey, thank you, stacey.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was just kidding.
Speaker 1:Having fun. Hello there, Nice to see you guys. When I am thinking in my mind and answer myself and say whatever it is Mike Rinder's voice in my head, I can't say whatever.
Speaker 3:That's great, and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4:My version of that is it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3:I say it all the time. Yes, it's not the end of the world, you know what One thing that was said a lot in the or that was said in the Sea Org and it was slammed down by David Miscavige. Somebody said it is what it is. And that was, oh my God. He got so upset that somebody said that because you're causing your situation, it's not just what it is, it's never, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:You know there was that song make it go right. Well, we used to say make it go right, right. I used to get in so much trouble for doing that Whenever there'd be a goody two-shoe around. They'd write it up and it'd be like Mark used a LRH song. He kind of twisted the meaning of it.
Speaker 1:That's called J&D Right? Yes, wait, what T-shirt I would buy front. I licked the crackers back. I'd do it again. Mark and I had a cracker licking incident at dinner time we did?
Speaker 2:He was somebody. Yeah, we were demonstrating and then somebody took a picture of us doing it and they said look at these two cracker lickers I got at dinner.
Speaker 4:I got those pictures.
Speaker 3:So did I, so I happen to know who took those.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:Goldie. Stephanie Hutchinson's awesome blog. Elzing's blog. Author. Elzing.
Speaker 4:There you go. I thought it was Ashlyn's, but maybe I don't know Ashlyn's. Ashlyn's, that's what I thought.
Speaker 1:How did I say it? Ashlyn's.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Ashlyn, I say confront and shatter.
Speaker 4:Stephanie Hutchinson. Yes, that wordison, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:That word defeats me. Marilyn, I'm so glad you can all laugh about these ridiculous terms and labels. It was total BS. Ps. I mailed your packages yesterday. I'm so excited for you to receive them. Well, we're really excited to receive them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, I have a whole little collection here this one is. Marilyn's and this one is from. I can't remember the name, but we linked to the Etsy store. Amazing name, rain, something is her name.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:They're so cute.
Speaker 2:They are so cute, looks like we're ignoring the chat, so much so that we clicked on the chat that says we're ignoring it.
Speaker 4:The irony yes, on point you are so funny zero connection to Scientology here and I love SPTV. Yay, nice, that's good Yay.
Speaker 1:Happy we're reaching people who have zero connection to Scientology.
Speaker 4:Yes, Robbie Robinson what?
Speaker 1:would you guys think about getting a 1-800 number that's easy to remember for CO Memphis, like 1-800-4SP-HELP?
Speaker 4:Yeah maybe.
Speaker 2:Or 1-800-4-sp-help well wait, yeah, maybe. Or 1-800-2-escape how about that? But they wouldn't. In a lot of cases they wouldn't be able to, uh, get to a phone. Or if they did call on a phone, it would get tracked or they'd block the number and the phones that they have it's. We are doing as much as we can to get the word out, and we are getting the word out because we're helping people all the time. So I think whatever we're doing is working, and that is, by the way, scientology does really go hard and troll us on the internet, and they have websites, they have Twitter, they have people on Facebook and Instagram, they have people everywhere that talk smack about us. So we must be doing something right. Okay, yep, okay, shirley Keeler.
Speaker 1:Good night folks. I did ask a question earlier, another time. Love from 1066 East Sussex.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, there you go. That's the second one we got for Shirley.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yes, okay, wow, mark, you're on the ball. Hey Aaron, I tried to do a speech ad on Amy's channel, but she is not monetized yet, so here you go. Yay, oh, aaron, sending us money.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going to bring it up, but since you did, aaron, we want to get Amy's channel so that YouTube will put ads and put it on the recommended pages and all that. So she has to have a certain amount of subscribers and she has to have a certain amount of watch hours. So if you're watching this video on my channel or you're watching on Mike's channel, if you can open it up on Amy's channel and like and subscribe her video, it's going to help it. So her, her channel and her videos get put up on the recommended pages and the algorithm puts it in more people's faces in front of more people to watch it. So that's what we're doing.
Speaker 3:Thank you for saying that, and my YouTube channel is at WhoIsAmyScobey, because Scientology has 12 domains.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 3:called Domains 12 domains about WhoIsAmyScobey, so they don't own that, so I made my my twitter who is amy scobie?
Speaker 2:nice youtube channel my youtube channel yeah, yes, and we'll put link. We'll put a link in our videos to her channel. So if you're on one of our channels, there's a link in my description.
Speaker 1:I'm going over to amy's okay, I'll up as soon as we're done on mine, perfect and hummingbird. Love all of you. Thank you, thank you. Love your name, cal Kathy Collins. Mark reminds me of my brother. He's a jokester too, not face. Oh my God, I love it. It. I have my library order, all forms of mike's book, all support here. Thank you, that's great, that's a, that's a really good thing to do I'm a web, no, toilet paper was a major scientology stuff at that point yeah, I know, yes, that happened a lot oh yeah, we did a whole video about just there's just no toilet paper that julie that was very poopy
Speaker 1:oh man here's a contribution for mark's next box of writs yes, okay we had a whole discussion in the cracker licking session what the best crackers in fact are. Mark actually is quite partial to her ritz. I myself I favor triscuits, so I, I like. I like the salty nature of triscuits and I like to lick the salt off them I can't say I'm a big cracker fan myself, but I wasn't either until this whole thing started, but I've been eating a lot of crack.
Speaker 2:I've been I had today at oyster crackers club crackers and I've been taking selfies with crackers. I've got I've got multiple cracker selfies because every time I see a package of crackers. I'm like, oh, let me look at those and I lick them and I go these aren't really lickables.
Speaker 3:Put it back in the bag and give it to someone else.
Speaker 2:I did do that. I was doing that with Mike today. That's when we got the picture taken.
Speaker 3:I was like you want it.
Speaker 1:I don't like crackers without salt, yeah.
Speaker 4:No, they're no fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you, steven, thank you.
Speaker 1:Appreciate it, Deva. Steve Claire, were you referred to by any of these derogatories during those years that you were trying to lose your English accent for a much lamer American, Californian one?
Speaker 4:Yes, I've been called many derogatories.
Speaker 2:Many, many. I think we have all been called every single thing that we said.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, all of us, everything that was on that list, many times, many times.
Speaker 2:Maybe even all of them in one meeting with David Miscavige. Yep, there may have been meetings where we were all called those things individually in a meeting with David Misgavage.
Speaker 4:And then, as a group, you're all a bunch of black. Well, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Aaron says Sonny Barrera was labeled a tiger Only one I've ever known of.
Speaker 4:There you go.
Speaker 2:I think, he might be right. I think there was a few people at the base who were labeled tigers, but that might've been before our time, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Well, it wasn't before my time, because I had to. I was on the mission manning lines, you know where, where if you send a mission out to an organization, you had to man it up, and I was responsible for manning missions and you couldn't be a tiger. You couldn't have a tiger declared to go on a mission. So I knew that there were people who were tiger declared.
Speaker 2:I think mission yeah, a mission, guys is is like a Scientology goon squad that you assembled to send to go deal with the situation. The people that would go on these missions, they would always have to have these really, really super specific qualifications, and you could never, get the goon squad list approved and it would always get rejected.
Speaker 2:And then finally, in the end, usually David Miscavige would just dictate who was going to go, and they'd all be people that you would have got yelled at. If you would have said these are the people I want to pick for the mission, he would have yelled at you for two hours straight. But when he picks, up, they don't have to have any of the qualifications that you had to go by to demand? Am I too inaccurate in that?
Speaker 3:No, that was my life for a while, Mark.
Speaker 4:someone just said we should do a cracker of the month subscription for a foundation fundraiser.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we're going to do. I'm telling you, when I get back to Colorado, we're going to do cracker licking videos. We're going to rate them how many licks they are. We're going to have tongue little meters on the screen and we'll figure it out. It's going to be amazing Lick that cracker.
Speaker 1:Maria Hi God, lick that cracker. Maria Hi Maria. Were any of these positive, like go-getter or superstar, or was everything? A person or group called a slur, or were they just more negative? No, there was not much in the way of positive. I was going to say you can help.
Speaker 4:I was trying to figure out Car con.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and nobody got it.
Speaker 4:Yeah it was like the policy says you're given nine lives because you're producing, you're an up statistic and quote unquote, you can get away with murder.
Speaker 2:You know, I now that I think of it, though wasn't, didn't? Um, uh, lisa schroer, henning, henning and matt, and matt and eric. They got that issue where they wasn't. It wasn't caw cawn, but it was about the closest thing you could get to it yep well, probably highly commended, with a bonus which clears your ethics file or something well it was.
Speaker 2:It was basically like these are the people that work for me from david miscavige. These are the people that work for me and they're getting stuff done, and if anybody gets in their way then you're toast kind of thing yeah, anyway, it's just arbitrary doobie t fugal tool fans.
Speaker 1:Have you seen the maynard David Cross interview about Tool playing at the SC Blue building?
Speaker 2:It was actually a band called Tool that played at the Celebrity Center in the Garden Pavilion and they are not a Celebrity Center at the Garden Pavilion friendly show and it is amazing, and if you haven't seen it I'll put a link in the video in my description. It's it's, I want to say it's like a hardcore punk rock band. They're wearing leather, like barely any leather, and, um, they have a punk show at cc and I think they even might have done some songs that had, um, scientology related lyrics in them. Even I don't remember if that was in there. When you guys watch the video, if Amy sees the video knowing she was over the Celebrity Center, if you watch this video, amy, you will be shocked. It will shock you. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:So they totally punked CeCe, 100% CeCe had no idea what they were signing up for. They thought this really super popular band was going to do a show for them at their music showcase or whatever. They had no idea it was going to be like a semi X-rated punk rock show. That was like over the top, super, super inappropriate. For anyone who was there that was a Scientologist. They were committing an overt by just being at the show. It was like it's amazing, it's, it's, it's one of the best things you'll ever see. That's funny, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, destiny. Funny how Mark seemed to be a frequent offender on all of these terms. Yeah, he was, he was. Mark seemed to be a frequent offender on all of these terms.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was, he was.
Speaker 2:He was my inspiration.
Speaker 1:Okay, shirley Keeler Jeez, we've got a lot of Shirley Keelers here. Claire, you're from East G.
Speaker 4:Yes, East Grinstead.
Speaker 1:Well, she was from Manchester.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was from Manchester Moved to well, whatever, I spent seven years in East Grinstead.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, we've got 30 questions left. We're getting through them.
Speaker 4:Yay, Asher Coben.
Speaker 1:Mike, has CMS ever filed a MECI brief or an ex parte motion in a legal case to give COS the ability to give their point of view? Since they're not a party, they're protected from being questioned. I love your legal analysis. I don't think that I have ever recalled them filing an amici brief, but plenty of ex parte motions. But ex parte motion is a different thing than like you're not protected from being questioned on an ex parte motion. We don't need to get into the legal significance of all of this stuff here, but Scientology has on many occasions asked for others to file a Mickey briefs for supporting Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on their behalf.
Speaker 1:Scientology doesn't tend to go out of their way to help anybody else. They only want people to help them when they need help. They're not so interested in helping anybody else with their problems.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Dev T.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep. Okay, destiny Selloza, was it hard to accept help without suspicion after leaving C of S?
Speaker 3:Yes, For me it was.
Speaker 1:Everybody nodding their heads.
Speaker 2:I always felt, yeah, I always felt, yeah, I always felt, yeah, like, yeah, what you definitely second guess yeah, you definitely second guess and kind of make you kind of try to think could this person be that? And if they were, what would the benefit be and how would they? When did they? When did I meet up with them?
Speaker 1:and you definitely think about those things yeah, for sure okay, is one a victim mentality to think you'll be victimized by a victim?
Speaker 3:great question. Yes, you're being a victim that's funny.
Speaker 1:Okay, persilma, except for mike. I saw him on the bbc thing. It's impossible to believe these people would ever like what they're describing. Wow, thank you, that's a very nice compliment yes, I appreciate it lynn zinberg super sticker hi lynn, thanks lyn Lynn, thanks Lynn.
Speaker 4:Thank you, len, thank you.
Speaker 1:Lynn is a wonderful guy. He was on the aftermath.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Told an amazing story about the Guardian's Office. Goldie Marilyn, the amazing crochet lady, has started a new FB group Coffee Cults and Crafts Great Nice, okay. Cults and crafts. And great, great nice, okay. Midwest girls, cos, definitely a victim must have made it that much harder for you all to heal from a cult that truly victimized you. Hmm, yeah, that's probably true, you, you don't.
Speaker 2:I, I and I, and, and seriously, when people that are watching this are Scientologists, I tell them and I this is a good reason to do it this way is you say listen, we're not victims, we're not being victims, we are survivors, we escaped, so we're not being, we're not. We're not doing this because we're victims. We're doing this because we're survivors and we're trying to help you guys that are still there, because you, right now, are being victims. Whether you know it or not, you're unwitting victims and we're trying to turn you over into a survivor. So, if you're watching this and you're in Scientology, think of it from that perspective and GTFO.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Abigail Sunalf. Hi, first time Super Chat. Right, abigail, soon Now. Hi, first time Super chat. Mike, did you see the Anderson Cooper video Leah Remini posted a few weeks ago? It was so hard to watch seeing M represent Marty Rathbun representing former Scientologist. I cringed every time he popped up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. It is kind of crazy when you think about it like that. It's Marty in a video talking trash about Scientology and now he's talking about the people that trash talk, trash talk Scientology.
Speaker 1:Including the other people that were in the video with him on Anderson Cooper. Yeah, yeah, tom DeVock, yeah.
Speaker 3:He did one for me, on me too. I mean just put the two videos side by side. It's like you can see he's just psychotic, it's sad to say yeah.
Speaker 1:And on a I was abused physically and mentally. It helps to his other stories. Thanks for sharing trying to get my son out. Thanks for sharing Trying to get my son out.
Speaker 3:Maybe I'll tell my story then.
Speaker 1:Ok, wonderful, wonderful that is a very meaningful comment, and it is really like we are all trying to do something to help former people, that our stories, our experiences, our recounting what happened makes in some way it easier for others to find their way out of whatever predicament they're in. So hearing that sort of thing is always incredibly encouraging and greatly appreciated. So thank you.
Speaker 4:Yes, completely.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, claire must have starred this one. Meryl, you're all 29.
Speaker 4:I didn't star that one.
Speaker 1:Okay, hi from Brisbane, australia. Have you all now given up smoking, and was it hard? Yes, yes. I'm not sure that it was that hard. I mean, I guess it was hard.
Speaker 2:Well, I did give it up. It wasn't that hard, but I did give it up for sure, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just had and I just decided that I needed to do that. I spoke for some time after I left the CR for a good amount of time.
Speaker 4:And then what actually, what really?
Speaker 1:happened was I started doing medical research when I was working together with Aaron, when we were doing research for some investment funds, and we were primarily doing medical research and every single issue that came up about, you know, health related, the issue of whether you smoked or didn't smoke had an enormous impact on the outcome of your recovery from disease, your likelihood of getting a disease or illness. I mean it just the evidence is overwhelming and I just went oh shit, Okay, I've been doing this for like 40 years. Enough. Is that me making that horrible noise? Can you hear that?
Speaker 3:I can hear it, it's not mine.
Speaker 1:It's probably our internet.
Speaker 2:I can't hear it and I wouldn't worry about it or call attention to it because they might not be hearing it in the live. I haven't seen one single comment.
Speaker 1:M341EHW Only as old as your Thetan.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:Mary Heicher, doesn't it matter how old your Thetan is? No, doesn't matter. Peace through cookies. Keep shining a light on darkness, it'll triumph.
Speaker 2:thank you yes we're working on it yeah, I'm working on the peace through cookies part too, just so you know peace through crackers lisa robinson.
Speaker 1:Mike, do you, do you get back to Australia? Haven't been there since 2010.
Speaker 2:Time for a trip.
Speaker 1:We're talking about going.
Speaker 4:I need to go too, by the way.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's make it a family vacation.
Speaker 4:Well, I should say we need to go. I have two aunts on my dad's side that babysat me when I was two and one before my mom joined the Sea Org that I haven't seen since. I'm in touch with them and it would be amazing to visit. Where are they? One is in New Zealand. I know it's a big place, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to stop talking.
Speaker 4:right now, one's in Australia and one's in New Zealand, I think one's in Queensland, I think I'm not sure. All right. What do I know? I was born in a cult.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about this off air Perfect Terry Zaleski Shoot. I am late. Bless you all and thank you for all you do. Thank you, terry.
Speaker 4:Thank you for being here so here we are Cheryl Texarkana.
Speaker 1:Mike 68. Mark 49. Claire 47. Amy 59.
Speaker 3:Who is this person?
Speaker 4:Can I just say something, you know what's funny. Yeah, I was thinking I was 47, and then I was like wait a minute.
Speaker 2:I just had a birthday. I'm 48 now, so that's not right. You just had a book, yeah, so you could have said, no, that's not the right answer. We could have just all went on with our lives.
Speaker 4:I I'm not, I'm just an open book mark.
Speaker 2:You know this okay, there you go this person.
Speaker 1:This person was eerily, eerily close yes, yeah, that was yeah yeah, okay, there you go, all right I will be turning 60 this year, wow we gotta throw a big old party, amy yeah, big
Speaker 4:six zero, yep, yep. What month October.
Speaker 3:Nice, oh wow, there you go.
Speaker 1:Okay, terry again. Oh my gosh, with the foul language from that Tony man, tiny Tiny man, how did you all adjust. Professional settings Right. When you're around that vowel language, it becomes normal for in and beings you.
Speaker 3:I know that was a. Thing.
Speaker 1:That was a real hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was still working on it, still working on it.
Speaker 1:Not quite over that hump.
Speaker 2:No, especially not when talking about a topic Once we get together and we start talking, we slip right back into the language and the sailor talk is very quick to uh come on, turn on destiny.
Speaker 1:The open invitation for leave is how we got our family member out. Even the monitor was sent with him.
Speaker 2:There is hope yay, awesome there you go folks, they will own.
Speaker 4:That's another reason why we're here doing this. That is amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the other thing is that sometimes they will send a person. That person called it a monitor, we call them a handler or they call it even a watch, a security watch. Sometimes, if you're really good, you can get your relative and the person that went to watch them out and that is a double. We call that. I don't know what we call that could be a double whammy. Think of something that's a super blow.
Speaker 3:I was. I was sent on as a watch with Kevin Cantano. He was a, he was a security guard, and then Ali Mintz was the person she was in watchdog committee and I was sent to her family with with uh with yeah, yeah, to watch ollie, you know, to go see her family was that after she escaped or before she? Was still in the in the. This is before she. She came, she was at the end base and I was sent, but I failed and she left and kevin.
Speaker 3:Kevin and I came back. She was supposed to come back like right afterwards and she never showed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, she escaped, she blew I had a failed mission. It was a big flap you know what's funny, you know where she lives now no she lives in colorado, she lives in devon oh does she yeah, she's still in. She's still a Scientologist.
Speaker 3:Oh, for God's sake, even though she escaped from the base.
Speaker 2:She still drinks the water down Kool-Aid. Now she doesn't drink the strong stuff that we had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, nancy Hansen, dm was trying to look up your dresses. Don't get short with me, dm. Good one. I guess it's super chats only for them.
Speaker 2:Another ironic comment that we're reading.
Speaker 4:By the way, I saw the other night on Growing Up in Scientology, somebody came up with a brilliant idea, which is, when we're doing chats and versus super chats, for the questions in just regular chat, right, all caps question at the beginning and then put the question. It makes them stand out so much easier.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I see, somebody just did that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it worked great, fabian.
Speaker 1:Thanks for the insightful answers. You four and the community have a good one. Thank you, we'll try. Okay, coming down to the end here, folks, does it matter to you, not to me? Mark, you had mentioned that you went to Knocking on Arrowhead back in the day. When was that? Was Gary Smith the ED at that time? I spent years at Knocking on Arrowhead working in the day. When was that? Was Gary Smith the ED at that time? I spent years at Narconon Arrowhead working in Div 1.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, no, I never. I we shot videos at Narconon Arrowhead, but I personally never went there as part of the shoot team. I was usually over pre-production or shoot production, but no, that was the whole reason. I actually ended up in the sea or was to go work in uh narconon in oklahoma, and I never, ever, went to a narconon um ever, uh in a? Uh in oklahoma. I went to the one in los angeles a few times, but I don't even think that I went to any other ones anywhere else besides the ones in los angeles. So uh but gary smith g.
Speaker 2:Gary Smith was the executive director for almost the entire time. We were doing videos with Narconon and all that and and yeah, I could tell a lot of stories about things that happened in Narconon with a shooting, but that's for. We'll save those for another video.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh wait, messed that one up. Sorry, fellows, it's not face. I guess I'm curious about publicizing, actually using the books in public libraries, do they? So they don't have to purchase them? No, they have to purchase them. A Scientologist't say, oh, I'm not buying books from the bookstore because I'm taking them from the library. Oh, no, the library books are supposed to be for the walks. Yeah, so they will get into scientology. You're not allowed to to beg off buying books as a scientologist by saying, oh, I'm going to the library and taking them out from the library?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would never fly, ever in any circumstance.
Speaker 1:Adam Florida Girl. Adam Florida Girl, you're all great Dealing with my daughter, who is currently in a cult, as family on outside. How do you help family on the outside understand? How do you help family on the outside understand?
Speaker 2:That's the whole reason we're doing these videos is to help family on the outside. A lot of people there's three different people that watch the videos. There's people that are in Scientology, that don't really believe in Scientology, and they want to know about all the stuff that goes on in Scientology and behind-the-scenes stuff that Scientology will never tell them in a million years. And they also a lot of those people know about the people that we're talking about and that's why they watch the videos to find out about the people that they have interests in. And then there's people that have nothing to do with any of this and they're just watching it because it's insane. And then there's people that have family members that are in Scientology and they are interested to know what that person is going through or what they may be experiencing and how they can understand it. So when you understand it, it's a little easier to deal with it and figure out ways, clever ways, to get them to come and talk to you.
Speaker 2:And that's where we try to give people tips and tricks on how to do that, because if you do it a certain way, like if you're antagonistic, then that's it. You're just never going to hear from them ever again, if you talk smack about Scientology, that's just going to shut them down or make you get blasted, blacklisted so you can never talk to them. But if you tell them that you they can come on vacation or if they want to retire, they can stay with you, that's a very uh, white bread, vanilla way of talking to a CR member that won't get flagged or make it so they won't receive. Uh, like they'll. If you're a person who talks smack and you send a letter, they just put the letter right in the shredding. They just say we got a letter, it was from Amy's dad. He was talking smack, so we shredded it and that's it. Amy will never see it in a million years.
Speaker 3:It doesn't even make it to the person. The thing that it's really important is it does what Mark is saying is so true, and it plants a seed. Like I remember, my dad said at one point if you ever need me, I'm here. Well, how many times during the rough times that I went through over the years did that ring in my head? And in the end, he's who I went back to. He was never a psychologist, you know, and so it might take a little while, but just plant the seed and they will think about it, because they are going to have hard times, believe me. Yes, Threshly.
Speaker 1:I will email Mike and Claire tomorrow. The ethics office is not like my little ADHD walk, so I can't wait to share with you guys. Mike and Mark love your books. Amy, Claire, you are inspiring.
Speaker 4:OK, looking forward to hearing from you Threshley. Yes.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 1:Vicki Holland, I can't believe you all still try and make sense of the insanity of COS culture. Hi from Brisbane, Australia. Well, we try and explain it to people not really. Try and make sense of it. Yeah, try and make sense of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and by the way, on our channels you will find out legitimately more how Scientology works than watching hundreds of hours on the Scientology TV channel. They say it's flowery prose with no substance. They don't tell you anything, it's just all word salad, yep, exactly. Word salad, that's the second time you used that tonight yeah, that's a good one it was abbreviation salad earlier yes it was you're big on the salads, though. I have been eating salad for the last two weeks you have.
Speaker 1:That's true, I'm proud of you, destiny I appreciate you acknowledging when osa is lurking, but not calling them out. It's a long-term investment in their escape.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're going to have a bridge, you're going to have trolls. That's just how it works. Scientology is very big on their bridge.
Speaker 1:That's me. Gigi Just went to Amy's channel to subscribe. I follow all of you guys now at your live sessions. Make my night, nice. Thank you so much, nice.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, blenda Stansbury, having read 20 Scientology books, present company included, but my intro was Jenna's book how and where is she? How is she? She's fine. She is raising her family. She is in the San Diego area, where she's been since she left the Sea Org because that's where her husband came from and it's a very nice place and she is doing great, but is devoted to life outside the Scientology world.
Speaker 3:And her children.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she wrote that book as sort of like that's what happened and peace out, Peace out.
Speaker 3:Hi Glenda, by the way.
Speaker 1:King Rama. Is there anything normal about DM? Does he watch sports, drink beer, smoke doobies? Ever see him let his guard down? Okay, anything normal? Yeah, well, he does watch sports. He watches Philadelphia sports.
Speaker 3:He does drink beer, which is amazing because none of us can Right.
Speaker 1:He does drink beer, but not often Smoke doobies. Never Ever seen him let his guard down.
Speaker 2:No, Doesn't he?
Speaker 3:have whiskey? Yeah, he does like mccallan's.
Speaker 2:Mccallan's 12 year is uh yeah, yeah 12 or 15 year, right, mike? I think he that's, maybe even older than that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was gonna say, mccallan's is his other single malt ones that came from, specially imported from scotland, and anyway and he got to do all kinds of things like go on scuba diving expeditions and you know, drink and watch sports and do all these things and all of us are slating around the clock. We have no TVs. They're all confiscated. They were confiscated when I was a teenager. You know we're not allowed to have any of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, john Soskowski, mark may need snack liquors anonymous. Before I joined them, I was up to three packs a day of Mr Fawlty pretzels. I finally went cold turkey Now I only lick cold turkey 800 yum lick for help.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:This cracker liquor thing is out of control. Terry perry, lux. Mark, I watched a video you did with aaron five years ago and you need your goatee back it looked thumbs up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know it did. I liked it, but I had a um, I think I got. I think I got like a cheap coffee or something at McDonald's one time and I was like I got it. I got to cut this off man. It looked like Papa Smurf. So, yeah, my beard is just a whole it's. It's whiter than Mike somehow. I don't even know how that's possible, but how is it possible to get whiter than mine? It's literally like I look like Papa Smurf when I have a beard. It's just the way it grows.
Speaker 3:I think it looks good, I like it.
Speaker 4:I'm not a big fan of the.
Speaker 2:You're not Well, because that, truly, they think I'm robbing the cradle and I'm out with some young hot thing.
Speaker 3:when I go out with Claire, Like what's she doing? You are out with some young hot thing.
Speaker 2:Well, I understand, but I'm just a couple of years older than her, not 20, like people think when we go out.
Speaker 1:Oh dear, okay, sd Cat Level 1, Super Sticker. Thank you so much. We're down under 10. Yay, yay, bb, bb 7, do you guys know the internal response to the Anderson Royal Commission and later banning of Scientology in Victoria, and could someone do a video on it? Okay, Do I know? Not especially Scientology, I mean. Hubbard, of course, said it was all the psychs, that the psychs had infiltrated the Anderson inquiry. Anderson was a psych-influenced QC. I recommend Steve Canaan's excellent book called Fair Game. He tells the entire story of how the inquiry in Australia came about because Hubbard refused to give a guy his money back and the fallout from that subsequently. It's a great book. I highly recommend it. It's called Fair Game, as I said, by Steve Kanaan, who is a very highly respected reporter in Australia. Nice, nice, okay On how to PTS. Claire should get some temporary tattoos of crackers for Mark's birthday for him to you know, okay, do you know, what's hilarious, though.
Speaker 4:Some one of our viewers sent me cracker earrings. They just arrived today. I haven't tried them on yet. Cracker earrings, they just arrived today. I haven't tried them on yet.
Speaker 2:Cracker earrings. Yeah, that's really a thing, or did they have them made?
Speaker 4:No, from Etsy. You can get whatever anything in the world on Etsy.
Speaker 2:That's so silly.
Speaker 4:And you need to lick a mark.
Speaker 1:Okay, denver, stevo, mike, self-serving question question have you had a chance to watch your birthday video on my channel yet? No, I'll try and get to it. I I get so many things that people ask me can you watch this? Can you look at that? Can you answer me this? Can you tell me that?
Speaker 2:yeah, we get about. I get about 100 emails a day and they're usually videos, photos, pictures, uh stories that are TLDR and everything else. So it's a lot of, uh, it's a lot of stuff. Too long Ken.
Speaker 1:Winks, I from Australia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, clear reads everything.
Speaker 1:Well, mike, for the cracker looking video. You guys should try some Australian crackers like Shapes, pizza, barbecue Chicken, crumpy and Jats.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, People got to send those in. I'm not going to Australia to buy crackers. I don't have a budget for that. You're going to have to subscribe down below if you want me to do that.
Speaker 1:Lady BB oh, here's the all caps. Mike Ritter and Mark, your books helped me more in the few days it took me to listen to them than the therapy I did for so many years. I recommend your books all the time, oh, wow.
Speaker 3:That was fantastic, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Lady BB. Okay, three to go. Anon A I was abused by some Scientologists, attacked by an OT.
Speaker 4:Okay, I believe it. Yep, I believe it too.
Speaker 1:Okay, denver Stevo, we're far enough into the video now. Amy and Claire curse like the sailors you are.
Speaker 3:I don't swear anymore.
Speaker 1:Snot face. Can we stop smack talking between Aaron and Tony Ortega? It's annoying, but I love them both yeah.
Speaker 2:That's between them, you're talking to the wrong people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah okay, last one. Oh honey, I need a Mark Headley Papa Smurf graphic now?
Speaker 2:oh, don't tell them to do that oh my goodness, christy, you know that I'm going to get about 2,000 of those now. Oh my goodness you, christy, you know that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get about 2,000 of those now. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4:You've unleashed the beast. Who started that one? Claire, did you start it? No, it wasn't me. No, I did.
Speaker 2:It was a super chat and I just started it. I didn't even see it, I don't even read them. We love you. Thanks, christy.
Speaker 3:I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. You know I do have a lot of people that send me silly shoops of David Miscavige and we have the bobblehead pics. But if they're really good and their landscape and they're really high quality and they give me a little bit of room at the bottom, like in this area of the of the picture, it's called the lower third. If they leave that empty, I use it as thumbnails all the time. So if people don't want to do a David Miscavige shoot, they just want to do a funny picture they think I might like I might use it. I use a lot of stuff you guys send me. I just put. If I find it amusing, I put it in the video and the thumbnail so it can happen.
Speaker 4:And Mark is easily amused.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I am easily amused.
Speaker 3:I love that you said hey, if you want an SBTV logo. You sent me a link. It was like 50 of them in there.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, those were all. I didn't make one single logo. We 50 different logos came in. Some people sent two or three, some people sent one, some people sent ten. I mean people have been cranking them out.
Speaker 4:Yes, right, one of these days we'll track down who did that amazing SPTV trailer intro and say thank you. I'll send them an SP bracelet. I just need to figure out how to find who did that.
Speaker 1:Well, if you did it and you know email Clint. Yes, please. Well, if you did it and you know email Clint.
Speaker 4:Yes, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the trailer that we use that has the moon shot on it. We love that. And that is another problem is some people tell us they don't want us to mention them or they don't want to say who did it, they just want us to use it. So we kind of err on that side, mostly just so, and also we don't want to cause anybody any trouble.
Speaker 4:Right exactly.
Speaker 3:I need one that's got the space shuttle taking off oh, really that.
Speaker 2:But the what you want, well, I'm not on your moon landing.
Speaker 3:I'm not on your moon landing, so so I need oh, on the video that we have.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, because it was before you had a channel, so uh yeah, we're gonna need like a whole bunch of flags planted on that moon I have some good ones.
Speaker 3:I've got a hey, ladi la uh intro which I'll show you guys oh because, yes, oh because you're in that video and I say, no, I'm not, fortunately, but a lot of people are. But um, but I have this little clip and and I and it's, it's like hey, lolly law or whatever. So I say hey, lottie doll, where's Shelly? They're all singing it. But anyway, I'll show it on my channel.
Speaker 2:This one. We got one. Last one for Amy. Okay, Chi town. Native question what numbers does Amy need for us to send super chats? Love you guys? What numbers? Oh well, us to send super chats, Love you guys? What numbers? Oh well, I see. So you need to get monetized. She just needs to get how many subscribers 4,000 hours 4,000 watch hours.
Speaker 3:I have yeah, I've met that, and I just needed 4,000, which I might have with with this chat tonight.
Speaker 2:Well, we don't know, but if you want to go over to Amy's channel, and see what other videos she's got up there. She's got a lot of really cool videos. Once she gets over a certain amount of watch hours, then YouTube will say okay, your channel is worthy of putting recommend on the recommended pages and and allow her to do ads and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:So that's right, yeah, and it's, I think it's 4,000 hours, yeah, so even if right now we have almost 2000 people watching this video.
Speaker 2:if you guys watch this video on Amy's channel or another video like this on any shell, that's it. It's done so it's.
Speaker 3:It says on my, on my channel, it says new achievement 5,000 watch hours time. So I should be able to.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was it, we did it tonight. I told you, amy, I told you.
Speaker 4:And you already hit the subscriber number right, Amy. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:There you go, folks yeah.
Speaker 3:I'll get that all set up SPTV is growing folks.
Speaker 4:Thank you for your support. We so appreciate you being here, yes, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:Wow Went from 2,500 to 5,000. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you everybody. This has been our longest chat so far.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, my God, that was a marathon, I went by quick.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, we have to get together for the next portion of our favorite name-calling thingy. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll do another one, Nice, and otherwise we will see you on Monday for our regular Monday evening schedule, whatever we call that now. All right, well, I'm bowing out now.
Speaker 2:Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have hail xenu xenu is my homeboy and bfg branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.
