Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
From Enforcer to Defector: Marty Rathbun's Complex Journey Through Scientology - Scientology Q&A #40
Four former high-ranking Scientology members reveal the complex, troubling story of Marty Rathbun – once David Miscavige's right-hand man who later became one of Scientology's most significant defectors before mysteriously returning to defend the organization.
• Marty Rathbun served as Inspector General of RTC and David Miscavige's primary enforcer despite escaping the Sea Org multiple times
• Marc Headley recounts being physically assaulted by Rathbun during an interrogation when he refused to confess to something he hadn't done
• After his final escape in 2004, Rathbun began speaking out against the church and created a blog that became a rallying point for the "Independent Scientology" movement
• The Rathbuns faced extreme harassment from Scientology's "Squirrel Busters" who monitored their home 24/7 with cameras and followed their every move
• Marty's wife Monique filed a promising harassment lawsuit against Scientology but inexplicably dismissed it, after which Marty began posting videos attacking former friends
• Despite his betrayal, the hosts express compassion for Rathbun, acknowledging his early contributions to exposing Scientology and the complex trauma that likely influenced his actions
If you or someone you know needs help leaving Scientology, contact The Aftermath Foundation at aftermathfoundation.org. You do not need to share your story publicly to receive assistance.
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Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to Blown for Good. Today we're going to do a live with Mike Rinder. Hi everyone, there's Mike and Claire Headley.
Speaker 2:Hey, hello.
Speaker 1:And Christy Colmer Hi everybody.
Speaker 1:Here, let's move, let's move us. So there we go. We like that better, just so we can keep all the good stuff on the bottom. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Guys, this is sort of a I don't know what this is, just an SPTV live stream. This is not really part of any series or anything that I'm doing on my channel or Mike's doing on his channel, but we wanted to talk about Marty Rathbun because for many, many years he was a very trusted, very high-level executive within Scientology and then he escaped. Well, he actually escaped multiple times, three times. He escaped three different times and each of the first two times he was what they call recovered and brought back. And then that last time he escaped he sort of got way too far off the reservation for them to reel him back in and he started causing a lot of problems for Scientology. Like, I'm pretty sure he was responsible for a great exodus of Scientology Sea Org members, staff members and civilian Scientologists that were giving money to Scientology because they knew that what he was saying about Scientology was true, and so that's sort of, I guess, is that a good enough backdrop and we can kind of fill in the blanks as we go.
Speaker 4:Well, I think that we should spend a little time explaining the significance of Marty to us and to Scientology, because he was a really big deal Like he was a really big deal in Scientology, I mean, he was basically to all intents and purposes. He was basically, to all intents and purposes, david Miscavige's right-hand man and main enforcer for many, many years, even you know, he blew, left the Sea Org without authorization a couple of times and, as Mark mentioned, he was brought back by David Miscavige himself, like flying to meet with him in a hotel in New Orleans or wherever it was that Marty had happened to end up and he came back in disgrace, as anybody who had blown the Sea Org was always in disgrace, but he came back and ended up back in the same position each time. He ended up back as the inspector general of RTC.
Speaker 2:After escaping Right yes, and despite the fact that it's a disqualification for Religious Technology Center. If you have escaped, you can no longer hold an executive position. But that was waived in Marty's case, Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know which time it was that he escaped, but it was. I want to say it was the time before he ended up going to the free winds with Greg Wilhair. Was that the first or second time he escaped? I think that was number two.
Speaker 1:Okay, when he did that, I was being interrogated in one of these religious technology center interrogation rooms and, um, the person who was interrogating me left like they had to go do something, and they were like you need to wait here and I'll be back. And uh, and they said I could be gone a half hour, go about an hour, but you can't leave. I was like, okay, fine. Anyway, after they left, um, you know, boredom sets in pretty quickly, especially when you're in the middle of an interrogation. And so I went through their shredding basket that was in the room and and I read all the RTC shredding that they had, and one of the things in there was it said Marty Rathbun, greg Wilhair, sabbatical. And it was that they're going to go on a sabbatical. And I'm like, isn't Mark? Didn't Marty just escape recently and now he's going on sabbatical. And I'm like didn't Marty just escape recently and now he's going on sabbatical and I didn't even know what sabbatical meant.
Speaker 2:I was like I had to look it up.
Speaker 1:They created a new term just for Marty, anyway, and then I was like, wait a minute, he went to the free wins to go training and get auditing after escaping and then they brought him back and so to me that blew my mind. And then when I mentioned it to somebody they were like, oh, that's the second time or this happened before, and I was sort of like what it happened during the IRS handling in the early 90s, right afterwards.
Speaker 4:Like immediately afterwards, maybe a week less than a week after the exemption was granted. Yeah, he just went. Okay, I've had enough, I'm out of here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's like that was good, I did it, now I'm out Peace. Well, he started getting.
Speaker 4:I mean but look, nobody is excluded from the insanity of Miscavage, and marty took a lot of abuse from david muskavage was telling him that he was a suppressive person.
Speaker 2:Yes, right up until the day he escaped that's at least from what marty told me that was a huge reason for why he escaped. He's like well, if I'm as suppressive, then I'm out I, I, I 100% believe that, claire.
Speaker 4:I mean that he did that basically to everybody. Yeah, like and and though. Marty was seen by a lot of people within the sea organ, within Scientology, as you know, this guy who somehow managed to escape the wrath of Miscavige, because they didn't see that part of it, they just saw him being the enforcer. So he was always the bad guy in their mind because he was carrying out the orders of Miscavige. He took a lot, a lot, a lot of shit, and I know because I was around him. Like Marty and I were the two people that were around Miscavige the most.
Speaker 4:When it came to external matters, when something was going on a legal case, a media flap, whatever it was that was happening, it was Marty and I, pretty typically, were the ones who were with Miscavige and those things that came up were always priority. They were what Miscavige focused on. If there was an external situation, that was always given priority for him, that was always given priority for him. And so I spent a lot of time with Marty and I. I can't say that when I was in the Sea Org I considered him a good friend. I don't think anybody was really friendly with Marty. No, he was not a friendly person.
Speaker 4:No he had the uh RTC cold chrome steel thing down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he also, he and there I don't think there was anybody at the base who was like, oh, he's not a big deal, like if he comes, it was a very Wherever he went wherever he went.
Speaker 3:When he showed up at CCN, when he showed up at any other org, everybody he was like Miscavige in some ways. You know, there was just this godly, it's Marty Rathbun. Everyone treated him like he was the second in command to Miscavige. All the lowly, all the lowly Sea Org members worshipped him. If he came in and he, you know, he, he carried a big stick. He had a very serious face and we were all like, okay, oh shit, marty rathbun is here. That's, that's who he was yeah, yeah, and and and.
Speaker 1:We did a. Um, we did a thing in the, in the shoot crew, where we we messed up a film and when we and, and, and. As a result of that, there was an investigation of all of the people in the film unit and Marty was the one running. Yeah, he was the chief investigator. And there was a girl and we told this in the Louis. I told this story in the Louis Thoreau project, my Scientology Film or my Scientology Movie project, my Scientology Film or my Scientology Movie but Marty was.
Speaker 1:There was a young woman that was interrogating me, giving me a sex check, and her name was Laura Dolan and she was sitting in the counselor's seat and I was on the other side holding onto the cans of the e-meter and Marty was standing behind her in the room with us. So if anyone in scientology knows, when you get interrogated it's just the counselor and you. But, um, normally if you're being interrogated by religious technology center, they have a little earpiece in and marty would be talking to her in the earpiece. But he decided we're gonna skip to the good part on this one and I'm just to stand behind her. And in the room he's like ask him again. Ask him again. Ask him again. And I wouldn't admit to the thing that David Miscavige sent Marty down to make me admit to because I didn't do it. And so then he goes. Okay, we're going to take a break.
Speaker 1:And we walked out of the counseling room to this little back room that was right near there and we were standing there and he goes. Are you going to answer her question or what I said? I've answered every single time and just out of nowhere he cold cocked me. We're standing right in front of each other. He punched me Boom right in the face and I stood there and I took it and I looked and I just kind of looked back up at him. I said you can punch me another 50 times, but I'm not going to say things that didn't happen because somebody wants me to say that, and so that was sort of the end of it and he was sort of like. But the best part was that there was another girl that was standing there who was like the report back, like go run up, back up to David Miscavige and tell him what's happening. When Marty punched me, she started crying Wow. Her name was Charlotte Geisler, charlotte, whatever, helt. When Marty punched me. She started crying. Wow, her name was Charlotte Geisler, charlotte, whatever, helt.
Speaker 2:Charlotte Helt.
Speaker 1:Charlotte Helt.
Speaker 3:And can I just say that's a normal human reaction. It totally is. This isn't supposed to be happening. People aren't supposed to be punching each other at church, you know what I mean. That's a normal human reaction. What the hell is going on? This guy just got punched in the face yeah, not even at church.
Speaker 2:This is where everybody has given committed to a billion years, right, like they have no life anyway.
Speaker 1:This is how we treat them so that was one of my earliest experiences with mart. Oh, this guy is not to be messed with. He doesn't play around when he's doing an investigation, it's going to come out the way he thinks it's supposed to come out. The facts are already known by David Miscavige. He has already determined what the facts are and everybody needs to fall into their place in the story and agree that that's the way it went down.
Speaker 1:And I was just like I ain't doing it. I just I don't know what to tell you. You can, we can keep going around in circles, but that was sort of the way Marty handled things internally. I'm not sure how he did it on the outside, but internally that was sort of it was a Gestapo-style investigation and handling and there was a trail of destruction when one of these things happened, where people went to the RPF and people, and a lot of times when Marty would come down and do one of these investigations, in multiple occasions that I remember, people would escape during this thing, Like there's so much pressure being put on everybody that people will pop, and then usually the narrative would change because it's like oh well, now we know, Now we know who the who is, Now we know what happened and then everybody's like, who, Like when somebody escaped everything bad that had happened for the prior four years or so, would get oh, that was the person who did this and they did that, and you'd just be like that person didn't even have anything to do with half of those things.
Speaker 1:How did they end up being the who or the why for that?
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, I remember after, after Marty and I had left the, the story that went around was we were responsible for crush redging. Yeah, I have never gotten a dollar from anybody ever in my life in Scientology, and I didn't think Marty had either. Nothing, you just weren't?
Speaker 1:you just didn't work in that area of management in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 4:No, any event. So I was. I was wanted to sort of set the stage, because I think everybody who is watching this knows that Marty, uh, you know, turned tail and became an apologist again, or even an attacker of people like us ultimately. But I want to sort of establish what it took to get there and perhaps a little more explanation of why it might have happened, why this might have, uh, have occurred. Um and, and you know, Christie and I were talking about it earlier and Marty is, uh, or was, a very significant person in the story of Scientology when he was in and then when he got out, Because when he got out, it was huge, that was huge. It was nothing to begin with. In fact, Scientology spread a word that Marty Rathbun had died.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember that. In fact, when Marty called me I think it was 2009, I remember his opening statement was hey, it's Marty, you may have heard. I died and I was like what?
Speaker 1:We actually had a death certificate of a Mark C Rathbun that lived in the area where they had said he went in Northern California. No kidding.
Speaker 4:I've never even heard that much.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I had it. I tracked it down and I got an actual death certificate and it was everything matched up, except I didn't know Marty well enough to know when he was born or any of that stuff.
Speaker 2:But I was like but I knew him well enough to know his middle initial was C and his name ended was Mark with a K.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I mean, if Marty hadn't left, hadn't left and hadn't spoken out and done what he did, a lot of people wouldn't be where they are today and wouldn't be out. So he was pivotal in my story. He was pivotal in me and my ex-husband, chris leaving and Chris started speaking to Marty. That was the first person he started talking to. And then, when I was brave enough to get on the phone with Marty, I knew I had crossed a line and I knew that was the end of it for me and I you know that was in 2009. And that was when a lot of people were starting to talk to Marty, read his blog, he started a blog. He created a huge, huge movement honestly, and changed the landscape of that whole time period of you know, he's contributed a huge amount to the people leaving and everything that's happened now. And he he went and did the um, the newspaper, what was it called? Mike, the the truth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you guys all you guys were all involved in that, but Marty was one of the pivotal people that got it started. He went and met with Joe Childs and Tom Tobin and started to speak to them and said, hey, let's, I want to talk, I want to speak, I'm finally ready. And then you guys all joined in and then a whole bunch of other people joined in and that was a huge tipping point for this whole entire movement Like that, that back then there was nothing really happening, it was pretty quiet and Marty Rathbun was kind of the, the person that came in and did that and it dramatically affected my life. You know, on a personal basis, like I was talking to Marty Rathbun. He was the person. I wasn't talking to anyone else and that was how I left sort of Scientology was from my communication with him and how I got declared and I'm just one person that and there's many more who have that kind of story of connecting up with Marty, connecting up with his blog at that time it was, you know, and one of the things I want to add that was different about him, that made it easier for some people, was that he wasn't at that time throwing out the entirety of Scientology, he was speaking out about the church, right?
Speaker 3:So many of us who still were figuring ourselves out were like, oh, okay, I can relate to that. I can relate to the fact that this is about the abuses in the church. I don't know yet how I feel about L Ron Hubbard and the technology and people who had wins and gains and whatever, weren't yet ready to throw away the entirety of Scientology, but they were understanding and connecting to this thing that Marty was talking about, which was the abuses of the church and the crush regging and the bullshit ideal orgs and all that kind of stuff, and that was what he was a little bit different than some of the past people that had spoken out about would just throw the whole thing away. He started out just talking about the church, so for many of us that was something we could go. Okay, I want to hear more about this. I don't want to hear about how L Ron Hubbard's bad. I'm not ready for that yet, and so that was a good gradient for a lot of people who connected with Marty at that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he offered a gradient Kool-Aid yeah.
Speaker 3:It was a watered down. Kool-aid.
Speaker 3:It wasn't even Kool-Aid because, well, you know, I guess in some ways he was pushing Scientology, but he was also really exposing the abuses and we could all see that for what it was and go, okay, that makes sense. And I don't know that personally, I don't know that I would have been like connected up with him if it was like, oh, the whole thing's bad. I was like, well, I'm not, I don't know about that. You know, I needed something that made sense to me that I could go, yeah, this is bad, okay, and and just peel it away bit by bit, because sometimes you're just not ready. You're not ready to just throw the whole thing away. You need a little bit of time, you need some handholding, you need some. And Marty was kind of doing that himself. He hadn't yet thrown Scientology out. He he knew David Miscavige and the church was bad, but he didn't yet know how he felt about Scientology, the technology, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I, and I would tell Claire and I would have discussions about this when new people would come out and I would tell them just let them do their thing, you know they'll. They just need to be in the world for a little bit, and they need to, you guys were so good at that.
Speaker 3:You guys were awesome at that Cause. When I came out and I spoke to you and Claire, it was like that's exactly what you said to me and it was so nice, as opposed to my ex-husband who was like, yeah, come on, like get. Husband, who was like yeah, come on, like get, like figure it out already.
Speaker 1:And I was like wait. I'm not ready yet. I just you were more patient. You know Well, I made up a stupid thing at the time. The time in Scientology is directly proportional to the time it takes you to get out of Scientology. And because some people were in for 40 years, it doesn't. You can't just be like guess what, yeah, like, guess what. It's bullshit, exactly't. You can't just be like guess what? Yeah, like guess what.
Speaker 3:It's bullshit. Like you can't just say it's bullshit one day You're just like, oh, okay it's bullshit, like it took some time. And I think that's one of the things that a lot of people liked about Marty was that he was giving us little pieces and, you know, explaining things that were happening, and we were like, okay, that makes sense, okay, this makes sense.
Speaker 4:Yep, and you know there was at the time this independent Scientology movement that had sort of grown up around.
Speaker 3:Marty group to kind of join as they're leaving their other group, like, oh okay, I've lost everything, but look there's, here's some people who still think like me and I can talk to them and we can have some something in common and we can support each other. And that was that was needed for a lot of us. That was helpful for a lot of us when we left.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, and, and you know, Christy and I actually hosted the first gathering of independent Scientologists. We did Like there were other people who had left and become squirrels and have been targeted by RTC you know David Mayo, but now the inspector general of RTC was one of the squirrels, yeah, in.
Speaker 1:Scientology. Anyone who leaves Scientology officially doesn't practice Scientology under the direction of Scientology. If they want to do Scientology in the real world outside on their own, scientology labels them squirrels because they're squirreling the technology and L Ron Hubbard has written probably hundreds of thousands of words about squirrels and what they do and why they do it.
Speaker 4:They gather nuts around them. That's why they're called squirrels, yeah.
Speaker 3:They alter it, they change it and they don't do it properly. So they're not really proper Scientologists because they're not doing it with the church.
Speaker 1:And, at the end of the day, scientology doesn't make any money off of those people. That is the main reason why they're squirrels.
Speaker 4:Yes, okay, so just a little more backstory here. So a part of this independent Scientology movement was this gathering that we held at our house. We were living in Tarpon Springs at the time and I guess there was like 50 or 60 people came to this first one.
Speaker 4:A lot of our old friends, people that we had known forever Jackson and Tiziano and Jamie like there were all sorts of people there. Um, and Marty, uh, had hooked up with this woman when he was in Texas, called Monique or Mosey, as everybody knew her, and he wanted to get married. So we concocted this little plan that I would register myself as a reverend of the independent church of Scientology with the Pinellas County and perform the wedding ceremony, and that this would drive Miscavige and Scientology absolutely nuts, because we were now doing the independent Scientology thing and getting sort of credence for it. And I went and got this license and told them who I was and they were like okay, no problem. So I performed the wedding of Monique and Marty at our house during this Independence Day weekend in July 5th or July 4th weekend of 2010. I'm going to show you pull up a little picture here. Oh, I can't pull it up. Which one is it? The first one?
Speaker 1:With the four shot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because this is actually from marty's blog. First independent scientologist wedding. Oh look how young I look. Oh, my god, my, oh, my dear. I shouldn't have. I should have blurred this face out oh stop.
Speaker 4:It's our most sincere thanks to the right reverend, michael j rinder, and organizing wizard extraordinaire christyy King-Colbran, for pulling off a spectacular first independent Scientologist wedding. You two are the best, and this is on 2010. 2010. July 5th 2010. You can see it right up there at the top. And then Mark pull up the next picture that's me with the two-ring ceremony. And the next picture that's me with the two-ring ceremony. And the next one here I am giving a little toast and we have this banner made. Congratulations, marty and Mosey.
Speaker 4:And this is actually taken from a video and that video is still on Marty's blog and the video is of the whole ceremony today. I copied this from his blog today. The whole ceremony is on there and I'll put a link in the in the um, in the description, so you can go see that video if you want. Um, it's. You'll see a lot of people in there, probably that you recognize. Okay, so go to the next one. Um, there you go and look at this. July 14th 2010. Marty is writing about the headlies and what wonderful people they are and I got together with them and their lawsuit is complete. Like scientology is lying and you know it. It was sort of over the top of how wonderful Mark and Claire Headley are. They brought a phony lawsuit. They were, you know, trying to make money out of Scientology or whatever the line is that gets you that he wants to use in this post.
Speaker 1:He actually did a declaration for the lawsuit and he mentions it in this. Yeah, it's a link for affidavit in support of what we were saying that. Yeah, that's exactly how they do it, right.
Speaker 2:And he just says we forget affidavits in support of his lawsuit subsequently as well.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We all do so. A lot of people may or may not know this, but I wrote a book in 2009 called blown for good behind the iron curtain of Scientology, and Marty wrote the forward to that book. And that wasn't an accident, because at the time, mike, I don't think you were speaking out at that time in 2008, 2009. I think you were.
Speaker 4:It started in 2009, in June, with the truth rundown. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yep, so we'd already finalized the book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but regardless, marty was the only person that was at the property for the entire time that I was at the property, minus I think he. He escaped maybe six months before I did Um. He left in 2004,. Um is when he did his final escape and I left in 2005.
Speaker 1:Um, and even in when he wrote the foreword, because we didn't agree, he believed that hubbard was good and scientology, the organization was bad, and I was very adamant. The whole thing is a giant con and everybody involved uh is uh, hubbard, muscavige, scientology, the whole thing is just a big giant con. And they're ripping off people and all that. And Marty and I both escaped on a motorcycle and that's how I got the idea to leave on the motorcycle. I was like Marty did it and who's going to get out of here? That's higher than Marty. But when he did that, he wrote the forward and he sent it to me and he said forward. And he sent it to me and he said you, obviously you can, you can edit it, because we don't share the same view and I kind of mentioned that in the forward and I was like no dude, that's the whole reason why I'm having you do. It is because we do not agree, and I think your viewpoint is worth, is worth something, even if we don't agree.
Speaker 1:And and and that's sort of a thing in Scientology where everything has to be black or everything has to be white. There can never be gray, there can never be. We have, we, we have to pick a team, and that's it, that's that's, that's the way it is, and I've always been of the mind no, that's how they get you is they put you in teams, and then you're kind of stuck with your team. Whether you agree with your own team or not, you might have disagreements even with your team. So I'm like no, I think there are some kind of value of not agreeing and and you know, even to this day, scientology still plays that game of trying to separate everybody into different teams.
Speaker 1:But so even though and I told him, I said I'm gonna print your forward exactly as you wrote it and I'm not modifying a single letter and to him he kind of was like what? Like, he made a big deal about that Right Saying and then when the book ended up coming out, he said it, he did a whole thing about the book. And hey, even though we don't agree on this mark is like yeah, okay, fine, we don't agree, we don't have to agree, whatever, right. So, um, and I, and the main reason I did that I said because marty was there, but also because I knew if marty wrote the full word, it's going to make it a very, very tricky thing for them to challenge the book, because how can the number two guy in Scientology agree with me and everyone else in Scientology disagrees? That doesn't work for your little narrative Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah no-transcript.
Speaker 4:It was like a lot of stuff. We were going, uh, visiting with the FBI in Los Angeles when John Bruce so left, I was the one that took him to the FBI in San Antonio.
Speaker 1:Had them fly out there, I mean it was like I have to tell you one thing about that real quick. When the FBI, the FBI called us when we were in Burbank, when we lived in Los Angeles, and they said we have somebody who just escaped and somebody who's helping him escape and we want to know if we can put them up at your house in Burbank as sort of like a safe house, and I'm like, are we really being asked by the FBI to be a safe?
Speaker 2:house. Yeah, and the best part was they were like we think you might know this person and we're like who is it? It was John Brousseau. We're like of course we know John Brousseau, we know about John Brousseau, but we didn't know about Marty.
Speaker 1:So when john brousseau showed up, marty was with him and I was sort of like holy moly, you guys are the ones the fbi is sending us to stay here anyway, but regardless. Um uh, marty was a major player on the bad, on the bad team, against on the, the scientology's enemy list at this point with all this stuff, right, mart?
Speaker 4:Marty and Monique were harassed with fair game tactics worse than anybody I have ever seen. Yeah, I mean literally worse than anybody. Every single day, 24 hours a day people knocking on the door. That goofball, john Allender with his stupid hat and Squirrel Busters t-shirt knocking on the door, trying to intimidate Mosey. And the GoPros on all of their heads GoPros on their heads, driving around on golf carts Right in like three houses on their street that their sole purpose was to film them.
Speaker 3:Riding boats behind their house and the little canal like paddle boats paddle boats.
Speaker 1:They even shot the squirrel busters, even shot music videos, I know spying on marty. I mean it was incessant, it was, it was literally it was. I mean it was such a big deal that media, um, media outlets from all over the world were flying in to film it because it was. They were doing it 100%, overtly, just noisy investigation, and they didn't care who filmed them. They were being filmed by every, by German media, us media, danish media, it was. It was. It was kind of like. It was like SPTV was.
Speaker 3:They wouldn't leave him alone. It was that then he was spraying them with a hose from his front yard to get them to leave his property and they would just stay there.
Speaker 1:He was spraying them with a hose, and that was another music video that Marty made. He made a car wash at the car. He was literally washing his car. It's actually a hilarious. To this day it stands up, he's washing his car and these protesters are walking around and in the middle of washing the car he just squirts them in the face for a second and then goes back to washing the car and in the background at the car wash is the song playing while he's doing all this.
Speaker 3:I mean, he was good-spirited about it in that video, but this was wearing him down Him and those people being worn down.
Speaker 3:And they weren't just at their house. Anytime mike and marty went anywhere, they had so many pis on them constantly, like so many incidents. You know there were times where they, their doors were slammed and cars and all kinds of like drama, with cars being chased and being followed, and it was incessant. It was. It was marty and mike and you know our family that also had this, but anytime those two were together the PIs were like hot to trot all over.
Speaker 4:They were waiting for us always at the airport. Dave LeBeau, I mean, there's a video of us walking up and there's Dave LeBeau sitting there. What are you doing here? I'm here to follow you. I'm going to see exactly where you're going. What are you doing here to follow you? I'm going to see exactly where you're going. What are you doing? Yeah, and then the videos of us with seven pi cars following us down pacific coast highway, from jason's house and they crashed into you one time.
Speaker 4:It was an accident one time oh, that was that that was outside of tiziano's house they ran into us, but this was. This was the way that Scientology was trying to shut down Marty Rathbun. And when they started then stretching it over into going after Mosey and Mosey had never been a Scientologist she was sort of converted to you know, marty-style Scientology by Marty. She wasn't ever in Scientology per se. She met Marty and they got together and then he started, you know, auditing her and she sort of became kind of a Scientologist for a while while he was being an independent Scientologist.
Speaker 4:But when they started going after her at her work and sending dildos to her at her office and like going after her bosses and the people that she worked with, that was when Ray Jeffrey, who had represented we had, found Ray to represent Debbie Cook and Ray is a very, very good lawyer who is in San Antonio and he helped Marty and Mosey move to another house where they would theoretically have more privacy and Scientology set up cameras in the woods behind their house and a PI in a trailer park outfit like just 100 yards away, because it was a remote location. They decided to file a lawsuit and this is important because, oh, I missed a photo. Oh Look, get that one of Marty with Christy, because this is our wedding and Marty gave Christy away because Christy there's a lot more to this part, mike, if you want me to throw.
Speaker 3:I mean the relationship that I had with Marty. So, on a personal level, when I, like I said in the beginning, when I was leaving, marty was my friend, he was like a friendly, fatherly type figure for me. I lost my family. Marty was with me through that entire thing, like helping me decide what to do, like what, like I went and stayed at his house. I stayed with him and Mosey. They took me in, they I had almost no friends, I had no family.
Speaker 3:I was me and Shane a two-year-old, by myself and then I would you know, then I went through a divorce and throughout all of that time period, marty and Mosey were there for me. They were my closest, probably my closest friends and he was a really you know good friend of mine, a really important person in my life at that time. And yes, we asked him to be the minister and he didn't want to do that. But so then I said, well, you walk me down the aisle, and he did, and that was actually towards the very end of our friendship, was that was kind of the last. I think the last time I even saw him was that time period and so anyway, so there was a lot of personal friendship between me and Marty and Mosey that I had with them, and I met Marty before I met Mike. So you know that was a very strong friendship.
Speaker 1:And then also I don't want to. I want to make sure we don't forget it. But wasn't Going Clear in there somewhere as well, or did that happen? I think that happened before the wedding. The Going Clear movie, right?
Speaker 3:I don't remember when Going Clear happened in the scheme of all that.
Speaker 2:I thought it was maybe 2017 or 16.
Speaker 1:But either way he wasn't Marty involved in the Going Clear film and some of the stuff that was done with that.
Speaker 4:I don't remember. I think he was in Going Clear, but I don't totally remember.
Speaker 1:But then after Going Clear we did Louis Thoreau's movie.
Speaker 4:But even at Going Clear, by the time it came out, he was already going a little like I'm not gonna go do promo for it. Yeah, he wasn't there at the premiere. Yeah, he was. He was like you know these whatever I'm about to, we're, we're about to sort of get into now what happened. Because I write about this in my book, because the mystery of Mahdi has baffled a lot of people. It baffled me, it continues to baffle me in many respects and I'll explain why.
Speaker 4:But the lawsuit was filed because, at the time, mosey and Marty were trying to adopt a child, yeah, and they were very, very worried that Scientology would mess with them being able to do and carry out the adoption, that they would come up with complaints, that they would say that they were, you know, whatever they would do, that they would mess with it.
Speaker 4:And when they discovered the cameras in the trees behind the house, they freaked out because they knew who the mother of the kid that they were adopting was and that mother and the father of the kid had come to their house.
Speaker 4:She was a young girl and they had come to their house to meet Marty and Mosey. And now they freaked out because they found these cameras and they were worried that Scientology would now be able to identify these people and mess it up entirely. And so the lawsuit got filed in a hurry by Ray and he got a temporary restraining order against Scientology and David Miscavige and Religious Technology Center and the private investigators to prevent them from doing anything against Monique and Marty, and it kind of shut everything down. It did shut everything down and that turned into an incredible battle that Mosey, who was the plaintiff in the case, with the assistance of Ray and the other lawyers who were working with him, were trumping Scientology. They were going to win. They were getting their asses handed to them left, right and center. It was in a little courthouse in New Brunfels.
Speaker 3:And Mike, you were so involved. Mike was flying back and forth. Mike was spending hours and hours and hours of his free time. I mean, these are our friends, these are our closest friends. Mike is invested with every ounce of his soul to help fight this lawsuit and to help Marty and Mosey win. Like when Mike does these kinds of things, he gives it everything. If you're Mike's friend and he's helping you on your lawsuit, you're good. Mike is amazing and he will be there. And that's what he did. He was there for them every step of the way. I just have to say that, mike, because you put so much into that, you worked so hard on that lawsuit to help them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I, yes, I did. I mean, I was basically the contact point for rounding up witnesses and affidavits from people supporting the statements that had been made by Marty and Mosey or Mosey in the lawsuit and helping, you know, navigate, helping the lawyers navigate their way through the crazy policies and way Scientology approaches litigation. In any event, it was a long, a long battle that was going exceedingly well.
Speaker 1:I mean, they were and that's when we and that's when we were shooting the Louis Thoreau thing, exactly, exactly. And you, if you watch that, if you want to get an essence of where Marty was at during that time, if you watched Louis Thoreau, my Scientology movie, he's unhinged in the movie because he was basically being harassed. The way we heard it, or the way I was told, is they were still trying to figure out how to make it so they couldn't adopt that kid all the way up until that movie came out. And then, when that movie came out, marty had already flip-flopped to the other side and said this was all a joke and I don't support this. And he was basically denying everything, denying everything he'd said in the film that they had shot.
Speaker 2:And a few months before that I had flown to San Antonio, texas, and shot with Marty for investigation discovery. They asked me to participate because I was Marty's direct junior, um, and even at that time that was like June approximately and the Louis Theroux movie was, I think, october. But even then he was very standoffish and a little strange and really the only thing we connected on was his adopted son and because my youngest son was not that, not that much of a difference in age, so we kind of were like oh yeah, but it was very tense and unusual and you know, obviously by that point I'd known and worked with Barty for many years, so it just felt off.
Speaker 3:And Mike. You had a visit with him too once, right I went to austin.
Speaker 4:I went to austin and I called him and I said, hey, I'm in austin, I'll drive down to san antonio and see you and and mosey because they were living in a house in san antonio at that time um, and he was like, ah well, you know, I don't know, and he didn't exactly know how to say no. And so because I was very insistent, hey man, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, a hundred miles away, I'm going to come down and see you. And I arrived at the house and it was like he, like a, knocked on the door and it was like this long delay. And then he eventually came and opened the door Hi, come in, not the usual greeting. And then sort of I sort of sat and small talked about the weather and about their son.
Speaker 1:Which is not something that we do.
Speaker 3:Which is not something that we do, yeah, and whereas the like. However, many months before that, for New Year's Eve, we went to their house and stayed at their house with both of our children and were their guests and were there for their big New Year's Eve party and that was when they were still doing the lawsuit and Ray was there and all the friends were there and it was a big celebration and it was fun and happy and we took lots of amazing pictures. So we were, it was like family.
Speaker 4:Yep. So when, um, suddenly, one day, out of the blue, there was an announcement that Monique Rathbun had dismissed her lawsuit, like it was like literally what yeah?
Speaker 1:When they were slaying it and gonna win yes.
Speaker 4:What, what, what, what. And I called up Ray and it was like I don't, you know, they didn't talk to us, they didn't consult with us. We have no idea what's going on. This is Ray, Ray Jeffries, the lawyer, the lawyer, and he's saying I don't know what I'm like.
Speaker 3:Let me enter in one more thing before this. So Marty and Mosey were also having talks with someone, we don't know who or what, he didn't even tell us, but he called us up before this, before this lawsuit um dismissal announcement. He called us and he had a phone call with me and mike and he and mosey was there in the background, like it was between marty and mike talking, but me and mosey were there for the conversation and he basically said something like which sort of implied there was talks, there was things or they were negotiating a deal he didn't even say that.
Speaker 3:He just said, let's say there was something like that. It was kind of an implication of if something like that was to happen. Mosey and I have talked and we just want you to know, mike and Christy, that no matter what happens, no matter what, you know, discussions, negotiations could potentially could happen with this lawsuit we will not abandon you, mike and Christy. We will not, you know, walk away from you, cause sometimes the church will try to gag you or tell you you have to disconnect from your friends. Here's your money, all that. And they said you know, if we do any of those things, we may or may not do them, right, but we will not abandon Mike and Christy. And this was said to me and Mike with, like the pure, you could feel the like okay, good, we're, you're, you're part of our team, we're family, we're, we were family. That's how it felt.
Speaker 1:And then and then, so it was a complete Well, let me show you one other thing too, because this was in our lawsuit. When we ended up losing our lawsuit, when it got dismissed on um, and we basically had to pay these legal fees, scientology sent us a letter saying you won't have to pay the 45,000 if you become a spy, if you turn over the rights to your book, if you give us any contacts. But they only mentioned one person by name and that's Marty Rathbun. They say you have to turn over all of their contacts with Marty Rathbun and any others engaged in disparaging CSI and RTC. And when we got this, I called Marty and I said Marty, I got this letter. And he was like well, you know, if you have to do, you have to do what you have to do. And I said no, dude, I don't have to do anything. I'm going to write him a check, I'm not turning over anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were like. No way, oh, and in no circumstances for them. Are you freaking, kidding me? And also, I don't want their blood money.
Speaker 1:I was sort of like you know, I get it. If you have to settle, you have to settle, but I don't have to settle. It's 45 K. I could come up with 45 K if I have to.
Speaker 2:Not that it wasn't hard, but we'll do whatever we have to do. We're not, we're not going to cooperate with terrorists anyway.
Speaker 1:So we both, we both sort of had this enough of a relationship with Marty that we're like we're loyal, we're not, we're not going to throw anybody as part of this situation that we're in. We will fight to the end and we won't take a payout. We won't be compromised and I don't even care about the payout.
Speaker 3:Take the payout. Some people do take the payout, whatever that. That, that bullshit. Don't abandon your friends because there are people who have decided to settle and who have. Like, I'm done with this. He went through hell. They harassed the shit out of Marty. I wouldn't even like be upset with him if he decided to quietly walk off into the sunset and take the money and just be quiet. But don't backstab your friends. Don't actually speak poorly about Mike Rinder after the fact. No, you do not have. That is not okay. Like that. We are here for you, we were there, it's it. I mean the relationship with them was as close as it is with you guys. You know what I mean. Like, like I said, I was at their house for New Year's Eve, like that's. So you know it was such a such a tight relationship and for them to then flip it, it was, it hurt, that's. That's what it felt like.
Speaker 3:More, than anything, it was a painful hurt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and. The sad part at the end of the day is really, who was destroyed in this mess is Marty.
Speaker 4:Exactly, we were talking about that earlier today, claire. For those who don't know, what then subsequently happened, was they withdrew the case or they dismissed the case? They bought a new house and Mosey started a baking company, or baking cake baking business.
Speaker 1:They call it a bakery.
Speaker 4:Yeah, cake baking business, and they call it a bakery. Yeah, cake baking business, it's a cake baking business, okay I love the therapy of laughter.
Speaker 2:Can I just say that?
Speaker 1:they call that a bakery here in america.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh yeah, okay, the lawyers got, um, completely iced out. They didn't get anything. Uh, even though they had spent uh years working on this case and had taken it further than anybody has ever taken this sort of litigation against Scientology and have been more successful, they got zip, zero, nada, nothing. And then Marty started doing these crazy brown jacket videos and they were shot by gold, clearly. Uh, they were uh, uh, you know these scripted looked like the pow videos that they have everybody else do. You know all our family members and you know people that used to work in the seo that come in and say that mark licked crackers and they're the same sort of set up videos. And marty started reinventing history and claiming that you know Leah Remini had offered him huge amounts of money to do the Aftermath show and that he you know he had. He wouldn't do such a thing, he had rejected all ideas like that. And you know people are doing this sort of stuff, and Mike Rinder's a liar and Mark Headley and Tom DeVocht and everybody. We're all now suddenly bad.
Speaker 1:But but here's I got to say this is the most bizarre part of or to me, was one of the most bizarre parts of this is that these were on his blog. They were putting. He was putting these videos up on his blog, but the posts that we showed you before were still on the blog. So you have him saying everything is white and everything is white. And this is why it is. Even though David Miscavige says it's black, we know that it's white. And now he's coming back on the same exact blog where these other things are saying and goes you guys know that it's white. And now he's coming back on the same exact blog where these other things are saying and goes you guys know everything's black. These guys are saying it's white.
Speaker 1:David Miscavige has always been true about and you're just like dude, you still have the other stuff up and the fact that you downloaded these things of you at each other's weddings and it's still on the blog. You're just like how? And so we all assumed I get it. He can't take down the bad stuff, because then that's going to give everybody cause and maybe the lawyers will have a little bit more to bite into to get the. You know, you guys made a deal and you left us out of the deal and all this stuff. But to this day, all of the good things that he said about us and all of the things that are the truth are up there, but now all of these new things that are obviously lies that he was exactly the polar opposite on the stance before. All of these things are in the exact same block.
Speaker 4:And what's so hilarious about this is Scientology then started citing Marty Rathbun as the source of valid information about me, or about Leah, or about Mark or Christy or whoever, and nobody listens.
Speaker 3:Nobody listens to Marty Rathbun and nobody listens.
Speaker 1:Nobody listens to Marty Rathbun, and they still operate the Rotten Rat website, where they tell everybody that Marty's a liar and that all the abuse came from Marty, and so both Scientology and Marty have both stories up on both of their websites.
Speaker 3:And that's what, to me, is what is kind of upsetting about it. You didn't have to do that, Marty. You could have made some other agreement. You didn't have to agree to flip flop and talk shit about all your friends and, you know, betray all your friends because it was useless. Nobody is going to listen, Nobody. Nobody changed their mind because of the new content Marty Rathbun put out. Nobody decided oh well, now that Marty's saying this, I'll go back to the church. Or Mike and Mark and Claire and Christie are really bad. Actually, Nobody listens to a word of it. It's all useless, so it doesn't make any sense. Like you could have made a better group, oh, we lost you, Christie.
Speaker 2:Oh, there you go, Anyway. Oh there you go.
Speaker 3:Anyway, can you still hear me? Yes, we can.
Speaker 1:You just got so excited that the mic was just like. I can't I can't Overload.
Speaker 3:Input overload. It just doesn't make any sense to me. It's just a completely ridiculous, pointless thing that he didn't need to do.
Speaker 1:And in the end I think that was definitely part of Scientology's plan is that we're just going to make his opinion useless, because he said both sides.
Speaker 4:he's played both sides of this game, so now you don't know what side is the real side Right, and he ends up looking like a complete idiot yeah, he looks like a double agent yeah everybody knows, and truly maybe he just doesn't care, and and if that's how he feels about it, uh great, but it's just, it's not he, he clearly does care somewhat and that's why that's what prompted actually us to do this tonight was because he the only thing that we have seen from marty for some time is his brown jacket videos. Yeah, that's been it. And oh, he wrote a review of my book saying it was all egocentric, self-centered, blah, blah, whatever. I didn't even remember. I read it and I was like, oh okay, it's kind of typical. I mean, one thing about Marty is he writes in a very, very obtuse manner.
Speaker 2:He does.
Speaker 3:That's putting it mildly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's gentle, gentle words, Mike. Good job His writing. He pontificates.
Speaker 1:Well, he's writing about historical things that happened and somehow correlating them to Scientology, and then quoting Nas. And you're just like what? Did you just quote a rapper as part of your article? And you're just like. What is Marty? What is going on over at Marty's house? That he's listening to Nas and being inspired to write historical articles about Scientology.
Speaker 4:Right In any event so confusing he just confuses.
Speaker 3:You try to read it and it's just confusing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you go. What's? What's the point of writing? Is it to leave somebody confused or is it to communicate?
Speaker 3:something to somebody, and not all of his writing was like that in the beginning. Some of it was really amazing and it was like, wow, this is so good.
Speaker 4:And when Marty writes about here is what happened, it's pretty clear. When Marty writes about here's what I think about what happened, it gets really confusing, like like impossible to follow usually. So recently I got sent a a screen cap from someone who is on LinkedIn and Mark pull that one up because I can't do it. The first one there and actually this little thing is from a LinkedIn page that's Mark Rathman, spiritual Guidance, and actually even has a picture of him in. I think that's one of the brown shirt. No, actually I think that's an interview I was gonna say that was a tv interview.
Speaker 4:Yeah, anderson cooper the inch wives, or whatever so, uh, and you know, san antonio, spiritual guidance. I'm thinking, wow, that's a little weird, marty's offering spiritual guidance at this point. So then another. Then he changed his page a bit, his LinkedIn page, and I got sent another one Spiritual guidance, writing, consultation and a little quote down here blessed are those who have undergone ordeals, they have entered into life, the Gospel of Thomas Thomas. I don't know. The Gospel of Thomas Thomas, I don't know. I guess it's a Bible.
Speaker 1:I think it's a.
Speaker 4:The Gospel of Thomas. It must be. It's a Bible.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So he is sort of offering himself up for to help people, and that to me, me is very ironic.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just a little Ironic that someone who has lost his way so terribly and has betrayed so many people and sort of all over the map thinks he is in a position to be offering spiritual guidance to anybody? Is that this one? Yes, this is Marty Rathbun at his finest, most obtuse, absurd writing about what God is and how he's come to understand God and his experiences, and I'm not going to read it. We'll have it in a link and you'll be able to see it, but it is like crazy talk. This is not. This is this is sort of sad to me. This is this is sort of sad to me.
Speaker 1:Um, and we who have known Marty very somebody just told a dog somewhere to shut up.
Speaker 2:We don't know where that came from, but I heard it loud.
Speaker 1:I'll tell her to Emmy Shut up, emmy, come on, take it easy.
Speaker 4:That must've been Shane, yeah, and in any in any.
Speaker 3:I mean, emmy didn't like the the god article from yeah yeah, yeah, not.
Speaker 2:Emmy did not approve, neither did I, by the way like, really sorry, mike, we interrupted.
Speaker 4:Go on, no I I didn't really have too much to say about it other than it's kind of. It's kind of sad he's. He's become like a a lonely little hermit sitting in a room somewhere writing about things that he thinks are really, really important and that the world should know about, should hear his opinion on these things, and I don't know Anybody. You can go read it and see what you think. But it's like I was going to say, for those of us who have known Marty closely over a long period of time, he has always had a tinge of insanity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I completely agree with that.
Speaker 4:He has always had this sort of slightly. You're worried that maybe he's going to go off the deep end.
Speaker 2:Right the amount of times that I watched him.
Speaker 1:And he did every once in a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the amount of times that I watched him in a conference room at the base, granted, so you know, none of us were in a sane, safe space but where he would turn purple and just snap pencils and you know, like, just like, wow, unhinged much. I mean, you know, even in that scenario where there was a lot of unhinged things going on, still, I you know, but nonetheless I don't wish bad for him and I and I feel sorry for for the misery he's brought on himself.
Speaker 4:Frankly, yes, absolutely correct.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 4:I have assumed that his motivation for, and Mosey's motivation for, dismissing their lawsuit was in order to. I can just imagine the conversation that went down If I was presenting this from the Scientology side, trying to reach some sort of a deal with Marty Rathbun. I would be saying to him Marty, you're 69 or 74 or however many years old. You have a six-year-old or a seven-year-old son. You have always been concerned about his future and being able to provide for him. You have nothing, you have no money, you don't have a house, you don't have anything. What if you drop dead tomorrow? What's going to happen to your son and to mosey? And I believe that that would be, uh, the go button for marty and that he would take that over and above anything else and protect his son and protect his wife, uh, at whatever whatever the consequences were Right.
Speaker 3:That's why he could have still done that without screwing the consequences.
Speaker 4:Well, I understand that's. That's where you're right.
Speaker 3:He could have, he could have he could have protected his wife and protected his son and gone off peacefully and quietly and never spoken a word again and not stabbed us in the heart. He could have done it that way.
Speaker 2:Though, as we all discussed earlier, scientology pushed Marty to the breaking point and that was very clear to all of us when we watched the Louis Thoreau documentary that he was pushed to the point of being unhinged was pushed to the point of being unhinged. Not to mention the fact that, because of the extensive harassment of marty that scientology carefully executed they had plenty of documentation like remember, didn't he get arrested on his wedding night in new orleans?
Speaker 3:and they had his mug shot. Oh right, right, right, right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, they did everything they could do well he assaulted a police officer, except the police officer was a horse. So he punched a horse on Bourbon Street and I don't support any abuse of horses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, neither do I.
Speaker 1:And neither do the New Orleans Police Department. No, so understandably understandably.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying that Scientology had plenty of fodder in their bin to use on Marty yeah plenty of fodder in their bin to use on marty.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I mean for sure. At the end of the day, we can definitely put the majority of the blame on scientology, david miscavige and elron hubbard for marty's current stats yeah, let's, let's not forget, let's not forget he's also. He's also a person that could have made a better choice, but let's not forget scientology.
Speaker 1:and David Miscavige, in particular, knew all of Marty's problems, his idiosyncrasies, they knew everything. So they played it exactly how they should have played it to drive him to do what he did?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what I was going to say. Yes, that's exactly right Before we get too much further the gospel of Thomas is an extra canonical sayings gospel.
Speaker 1:It was discovered near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, in December 1940, and it's 114 sayings of Jesus.
Speaker 4:And Amy Scobie says that quote Thomas is is not from the Bible.
Speaker 2:Yes, we stand corrected.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying I want to correct my part of the Bible nonsense. We will never profess to be experts on the Bible. Hey, what do I know? I grew up in a cult.
Speaker 2:No offense intended.
Speaker 3:We don't know anything about anything regarding that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:We grew up in a Bible-thumping cult.
Speaker 4:we grew up in I did play Angel school.
Speaker 2:I did too.
Speaker 4:Okay, so do you want to do a few quick things and then?
Speaker 1:I have one other blog. I have a blog post I'm just going to put it up Cause I don't know.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that was us.
Speaker 1:I can't. This screen is so tiny on my I know.
Speaker 3:I just want to say one other thing which is goes along with what Claire said, and it I mean truly. I don't wish Marty any ill will. I don't, and I don't think any of us do we. I wish him peace and happiness and joy with his wife and his child, because he did a lot of really good things too. Um, you know and I again, we're hurt. I was hurt by his betrayal, but I don't. You know, he, he was a good friend, he really was for me and Mike. We were very close with Marty and Mosey. So I want him to, I want him to be happy and be at peace and you know, I don't think he is, but I I hope that he will be at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the one thing that Scientology always tries to do is they. They cannot have connections. So if if SPs are talking to other SPs, they will do everything they can to try and disconnect them from each other, even if they're not connected to Scientologists. They don't even want them to be connected to each other because that's how they can sort of collaborate and do what they're doing. And when Scientology goes after one of these people, this is the kind of stuff that they do.
Speaker 1:We don't usually talk about this stuff on the channel because we're not trying to bring attention to what's being done to us. We're trying to expose what Scientology is doing. So when Scientology and they've been doing this since the early days of the internet where they get trolls or they get plants and they get them to infiltrate the group, and then what they do is they start to cause infighting and they spread rumors. And in Scientology they have a thing called the third party law or the third party rule, and if there is a quarrel, there is always a third individual who said something to either one or both of these people, kind of gave them a little bit of gossip or a lie to each of them that the other one said and they create conflict.
Speaker 2:Intentionally so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Scientology flips that around like oh, this is how you discover if there's a conflict, this is how you do it. Well, they turn it around the other way and they go this is how to create conflict. So whenever I'm trying to be very, I'm being be very, choose my words. When, whenever there's drama within the Scientology exposed kind of community and SPTV, or whether it's on the internet or if it's on YouTube or on Facebook, scientology is always there trying to stir the pot and trying to cause trouble and we try to, as best as we can, ignore the drama because it's just a distraction. It's meant as a distraction for us and it's meant to divide and put everybody onto one side and that sort of thing. But the one thing it tells us is when there is high drama and it's going on like this, that we're doing something right because Scientology are going nuts trying to stop us. So if you I know YouTube is sort of the way that YouTube works is some channels like the drama, because it creates more viewers and it creates more subscribers, and so YouTube channels sort of just channels about comedy and comedians.
Speaker 1:I watch these things and I see the drama. We try not to embrace the drama because that's not the goal. It's like we're at a game and we're on the field playing the game and some dude just took a dump on someone's car out in the parking lot. That has nothing to do with what we're doing here. Just because Scientology is taking dumps out in the parking lot, that has nothing to do with what we're doing here. Just because Scientology is taking dumps out in the parking lot, we're not going to cover that because we don't care about that. We're trying to expose them and play the game right here in front of us.
Speaker 1:So, if you are wondering why we don't talk about those things whenever they come. This has been going on for 20, we've been doing this since 2006. Claire and I we've seen this a hundred times in a hundred different uh variations and um, so we're sort of numb to it.
Speaker 1:But some of maybe some of these- well, but either way, some of these new creators that are coming in like, oh, I'm gonna tell my story and then you're like, whoa, I wasn't expecting this. You're like, yeah, this, this is, this is for realsies. We play for keeps on this in this game and um and the. And the last thing I wanted to say was the people that sometimes the people that cave, they don't. They didn't sign up for their entire personal life to be aired out on the internet and become all this thing. Well, unfortunately, when we left, that was just flushed down the toilet, so that was taken off the table right off the bat. For us.
Speaker 1:So we're kind of like at the point where, like, we got nothing left to lose, but some other, some people aren't like that. So if you see people come and go and kind of disappear from the scene, they might have gotten in a little over their head to what they thought this was going to be like, and so and, and I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to put those people down for deciding to bow out because, that's their choice. Nobody has to do this.
Speaker 3:And there have been people that walked away and and walked away and just quietly did their thing, which is a little different than what Marty did, and and, but yeah, you're right, it's very different. Very different.
Speaker 2:But you know, each person has to walk their path and we're not we're. It's not any of our roles, nor our intention to judge anybody for their choices, because the fact of the matter is that any day of the week, exposing a billion dollar cult is not for the faint of heart and and marty rathbun, for all the bad, did so much good like on this side, on our side, he really did change a lot and that stuff I'm still grateful for. Yep I agree okay find love, not hate yeah I love, you love festival.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, okay, oh, before I'm gonna hide this.
Speaker 4:Wait, wait, wait, wait. But before we go we have to, Did you copy.
Speaker 1:I did that's. That's exactly what I'm saying I'm going to do before we do that.
Speaker 2:We have some follow up.
Speaker 1:We had a live stream yesterday, and right before the stream some comments popped up and we had already ended the stream by the time they showed up on our end and guess what I'm going to show them. So this is one. It says it was from Mrs T Roosh. Is it Rush? I?
Speaker 2:think it's, rush, rush. We all think it's.
Speaker 3:Rush.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I asked about little man syndrome and corrected the pronunciation of my name. Did anyone do a deep dive on Dave's Napoleon complex? I don't think anybody's done a deep dive, um, but I do know. Um, I did find out recently that Napoleon was taller than David Miscavige. So I mean, that's gotta be, that's gotta have something to do with something, um, okay, the next one is I went to William and Mary oh, this is the person. I can't read it because it's got the forward on it but I went to Williams and Mary. So you loved Williamsburg. Mike, still celebrating the good news about your health. God bless you and you both. Okay, good, nice. Thank you, christy Lee Wilson. Did Rosemary have to pay the credit card debt that Osa charged to her account? She did right.
Speaker 2:She paid off all those cards.
Speaker 1:Yes, she paid them all off. Yeah, so they stole the money and then she paid off the cards, and then they paid her back and then they direct deposited all that money back into her account before um the uh feds could bust down their door. Eight points of art out our factor. Having an aussie as a bff, you should know better. Temperature and uv rays don't have a relationship yeah, that was for you about the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because look at your bright, shiny forehead in that picture.
Speaker 4:I know it was really.
Speaker 1:I ever got was skiing in colorado, that's true, I remember, uh, you saying that when you but you know, but today I look a million times better. It was really. I mean, I just got off the river and came and did the live, you were still overeated.
Speaker 2:Can I just say my favorite moment of yesterday was when Mark called bighorn sheep bullhorn sheep. It was amazing.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you were amused. I'm glad you were amused. My brain was on overdrive, okay, Overtime overdrive, Okay. So we did show your super chats from yesterday.
Speaker 3:And she just commented that it's Rush.
Speaker 1:Rush.
Speaker 3:It's Rush.
Speaker 2:R-U-S-H.
Speaker 4:I saw that yesterday. I know R period.
Speaker 1:U period S. Period H there's some words I just always want to say a certain way.
Speaker 4:It doesn't matter how many times I tell them.
Speaker 1:Okay, here now to start off today, mrs t rush rush, I would be wrong, but I've always thought marty is a sociopath. He enjoys being the enforcer. What do you think? Yeah, he didn't not like it. I'll tell you that it didn't seem to not like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with that hey, by the way folks segue, I thought of a, a new name for this show, right here oh yeah mc squared, get it yeah, mc mnc and mnc mark.
Speaker 1:I know I thought of it, the other day, but I wasn't going to tell anybody oh, it's so good, my brain recovered and was like yeah, don't say those words out loud um, that's a good one Claire, Good job.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Dastardly saboteur. Was he ever assigned to the RPF? No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:No, no, he was not. Are we talking about Marty? But?
Speaker 1:even in the seventies, and all that stuff.
Speaker 4:No, never.
Speaker 1:You know Matt. You know another person who knows a lot about Marty is Matt P. You know another person who knows a lot about Marty is Matt Pash, because he and Marty joined the Sea Work at the same time back in the 70s.
Speaker 4:Right, and I think Matt was the first person that Marty reached out to.
Speaker 2:Yes, I saw Amy Scobie commented about that.
Speaker 3:Amy and Matt helped to get Marty to actually start speaking out. They were the ones. They went there and started talking to him about the disconnection and then he got really upset. He was all quiet, not doing anything, and he got all worked up and was like I got to do something and yeah, so yeah, all of us.
Speaker 1:you know, you guys think this happened by accident. All of the people that you see, you know Matt and Amy and Mike. We we've been doing this for a long time before. Before we were on YouTube, we were still doing this, just not with 2,000 people watching live. Noel Goldberg watched video update on Mike's health. Who knew that the best possible news would be that Mike is a mutant who has lost his inner glow? Lol.
Speaker 3:Mike is a mutant, I tell you.
Speaker 2:BTs activate baby.
Speaker 3:BTs activate Okay.
Speaker 4:Boom, lol, bts activate, baby bts activate, okay, boom. We need like a teenage mutant ninja turtle name for you now, mike yeah, yeah, mike the mutant of scientology is gonna do.
Speaker 1:They got a website cooking up right now yeah, we'll just call you magic mike suppressive pup says question Was there ever any writings from LRH about dealing with people with violence? Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:There is a. There is a pretty famous, infamous advice, which is a Hubbard writing that was never published as a policy letter but is to be treated the same way to David Miscavige about a down dog and every now and then you have to beat people in order to get them to be obedient and teach them a lesson. Miscavige used that routinely to justify what he did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when somebody might say like if he would see somebody like going like Ooh, I don't know about that, he'd be like hey, listen, LRH said you got to do this. This is the way. This is why I'm not doing this, because I'm a meanie. I'm doing this because Hubbard said you got to do it every once in a while.
Speaker 3:And then there was a flag order too, about when the ship's about to hit the rocks. It's okay for officers to yell. It doesn't talk about physical violence, but it talks about yelling Well the knowledge report says take the person in a dark alley and do whatever you got to do.
Speaker 4:If you come out when he's got a black eye, then you know, everybody knows so even in addition go ahead that SEARC members coming to physical altercation is not actionable other than if it damages someone, so they can't do their job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you could rough somebody up. As long as they can work, we're good, yep.
Speaker 3:So that's numerous policies right there. There you go, mark Fisher.
Speaker 1:Mark Fisher's Las Vegas travel and more.
Speaker 4:He's got a new blog, a new YouTube channel.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, okay, he said a word here. I'm just going to read the gang and then it rhymes with gang but it starts with a, b. Sex checks were started by DM at ASI, completely so just started by David Miscavige at Author Services Incorporated.
Speaker 3:Right, Completely crazy. Is that a word we're not allowed to say on YouTube?
Speaker 1:I'm going to err on the side of not you know, because you know we're not doing a video about that and if you but that was a term used in the Sea Org If there are multiple people interrogating you. That's what it was called within the Sea Organization and it was a known thing, I think that and then that got.
Speaker 4:I'm not sure Mark whether that began before or after, but the first widespread implementation of that particular technique was at the San Francisco Mission mission holders convention, yeah, where they just lined them up, yep, and it was yeah two, yeah three, four people at once, and that was definitely, I'm gonna say without a doubt that was during muscavige's era, not during hubbard's era.
Speaker 1:That was a muscavige-esque, or the people that were working with him at the time, kind of thing.
Speaker 4:Well, don't get too certain about that, because that transcript of that whole thing was sent to Hubbard.
Speaker 1:Well, no, but I'm saying he wasn't the one Hubbard. I don't know of any instances of Hubbard partaking in that. Yeah okay. Yeah Okay, not that he didn't know of any instances of Hubbard partaking in that, yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, but I don't know, not that he didn't know about it.
Speaker 2:We're not defending Hubbard. Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 1:I was thinking the other day, bts have gotten a little one. No, listen to me, if your name was, if your nickname when you were a kid was Laffey, you might have been a little bit unhinged too. Hubbard's first name everybody calls him l ron hubbard. His first name is lafayette.
Speaker 4:Okay, if there are any bullies around. When he was a kid they were on duty for that.
Speaker 1:It was, and he jumped on them from a 10-foot fence. Yeah he beat them up I think there's stories about that colonel snake thompson that we don't know about as well, an older military gentleman on a boat hanging out with a little kid yeah, that liked to have a cat in his cabin, and LR Hubbard was hanging out with him full time. There's untold stories on this Hubbard childhood.
Speaker 3:Thank you for that, Mark.
Speaker 1:Fisher, Mitch Brisker. Thank you for being in the chat, Mitch. After he blew, Miscavige was fond of saying. Marty's mom received electroshock therapy when Marty was in the womb. Marty and Dave were bottomless pits of evil.
Speaker 2:Okay, David Miscavige said that many times before Marty blew too.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:That's the kind of thing you don't say, you don't tell people that Like if that's true or not true. That's personal information Right.
Speaker 1:David Miscavige one time told me that my mom was the stupidest Sea Org member that he had ever encountered and that when he met her on the RPF he left her on the RPF because she was so stupid that she deserved the RPF for being that stupid and then didn't know, because she had a different last name, that that was my mom. Mountaindew X97,. Mike, read your book and was shocked to find out that you were out here in the Buffalo area. Have you by chance heard of Ellie Perkins and her passing? Absolutely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm pretty sure everybody in Scientology has heard about that one. Yeah, we watched the show. Spoke to various relatives, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jeremy Perkins has done a number of interviews on YouTube.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Sarah Blodgett, I remember that Marty had a brother who was mentally ill. Do you think some of Marty's actions reflect some mental instability? Well, that's kind of his Marty Rathbun's origin story. Thank you for that, sarah, very generous. There was a fight, a bar fight, that Marty was involved in and his brother came to stick up for him and, you know, settle it and his brother was stabbed and passed away in that scenario. And then very shortly after that, in the very early years of Marty's Sea Org career, he was assigned to watch a woman whose husband had threatened to end her with a firearm.
Speaker 2:And this was at the big blue buildings in Los Angeles in the late 70s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Marty was put in charge of watching that woman so that she wouldn't be harmed by the husband, and the husband showed up at the complex and the husband ended her with just like he said he would. And that was on Marty too.
Speaker 2:So isn't it true that Marty Rathbun and Ken Hoden both were temporarily arrested when that happened because they were both at the scene of the crime? That's, that's at least what Marty told me.
Speaker 4:That meant. I don't know about that, claire, but I know that he was literally in the line of fire. Yes, like he wasn't, like watching from 100 yards down the street and this whole thing about Marty's family his brother, his mother, his mother had all sorts of problems. His brother, his mother, his mother had all sorts of problems. Genes and how the environment in which they were raised affects their, the way that they approach life then you would absolutely conclude that this had a big impact on marty.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, and and again, I don't know any of the facts, but I recall marty saying that when he was approximately six is when his mother ended herself. So all of that is you know. Always I looked at marty as a traumatized person before and not ending with his involvement in yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, good. And then Jolene Harris. Behind the Bastards is a podcast that has comedians on to tell the stories of the worst people in history. Mark should reach out to do a DM episodes. Okay, I'll check it out. Thank, we'd be both. We'd be a double feature, exactly.
Speaker 4:Miscavige.
Speaker 1:Marty, everybody, jay Beans, was it hard to forgive each other for the effed up S-C-O-S-M-A-G-E-D-U to each other? I'm a never am but a trauma survivor and that would be near impossible. Fortunately for us. I think for the most part, even though Mike is, he's sort of in, he's written. He writes some of the spy files that I cover in my thing.
Speaker 1:I was already gone by that part and I already wrote. I was already. I knew he was up, I knew he was doing that. So it was sort of like it was like that was his part and I had my part. So it was sort of like I'm not going to blame Mike for the part he was there to play. But but when we were there and I think we've covered this before I don't think we really, mike and I, we worked together a lot and we were pretty much both like we're doing our job and we're doing our thing and no reason to really be evil to this guy for any particular reason, because he doesn't seem to be, you know, a guy that I would do that with, but I wasn't. I mean, anybody who was at the end base can comment. I was sort of like I wasn't there for the politics and all that.
Speaker 1:I was just trying to get my job done and I was however, I could do that If you didn't help me get my job done. I really just didn't have any dealings with you at all.
Speaker 4:I think that the people who have been through it um forgive easier than the people who have not I generally find that anybody who I had had, you know, interactions with when I was in the seer or in scientology, um, they're very, very, very forgiving, because they look at themselves and they go yeah, and I did stuff that I'm not proud of either, and I wasn't who I really am, yeah, um, and there are some people who are outside of that circle who seem to constantly bring up are you talking to this? Why haven't you done that? Why You're just like where't you done this?
Speaker 1:Why haven't you done that? You're just like where do you come from? How do you? Why do you even have a say in any of this? Yes, I know what you're talking about and that was another thing I was thinking about when we were talking about Marty and all talking about the fair game stuff that they do to us. We work with David Miscavige directly for decades. He the fair game stuff they do on the internet is almost like just another Sea Org member writing dribble on the internet. So all the horrible things they say about us, those things were said directly to our face for years and years and years. So it's sort of like we've been inoculated, we're not we're We've had our vaccinations. Yeah, david Miscavige inoculated us before we even left. So the fact that they kind of took everything that we had to lose, they took that away. Afterwards it was just like, okay, you did this, you did this. Farty Bath Bomb. Farty Bath Bomb.
Speaker 2:Oh, michelle Carpenter, Hello.
Speaker 1:Not sure if that means something. Maybe that's when you get an FB out of the Sea Org, you get a Farty.
Speaker 3:Bath Bomb. It's her nickname for Marty Rathbun Farty Bath.
Speaker 2:Bomb oh, that's great, farty, bath.
Speaker 1:Bomb. Wow, how did I not see that one? Mark Rosalind C, is it weird to audit a spouse? Yes, completely.
Speaker 2:It is. Marty should not have audited Mosey. That is against.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're still all here. This is inside voice.
Speaker 3:I feel like auditing any family member is weird. My mom audited me when I was a child and it's just weird. You're it's like you don't want to be audited by family members. It's like having your mom be your therapist. No, that's not how it works. You don't want your husband to be your therapist. We don't therapize each other.
Speaker 2:Yes, but especially when there's a romantic element, it's actually firmly forbidden. It's supposed to be forbidden, so it's wrong. But, christy, I shared your experience. My mom was trying to audit me when I was six. Yeah, I was like I don't want auditing, I'm fine. And then that's when I learned that if you refuse auditing, that makes you a bad person, right?
Speaker 1:That's one of the traits of a suppressive person is that they refuse Scientology auditing. That is an actual characteristic of a suppressor.
Speaker 3:It's very weird to be audited by your mom. I had a lot of auditing from my mom.
Speaker 1:It was weird.
Speaker 3:It makes your brain and you think all these weird things and you feel like, oh, she think it, just, she knows this. What about that?
Speaker 1:It messes up your relationship. Are you ready for this, christy? Yeah, I would like to acknowledge that that was bypassed and that it was weird being audited by your mother.
Speaker 2:Don't make it weird honey.
Speaker 1:Don't make it weird, honey. Don't make it weird. A true man of God will ask for forgiveness from the people he has wronged. I know you will give it to him and you will all find peace. Yeah, that's. That's kind of what we're I mean. That's kind of. The silly part of this is we've never, ever talked about this in a video and and meanwhile Marty's been doing videos and posts and and we're sort of just like, whatever it sucks, come on. So finally, now that he's gotten a new job, he's moved on to spiritual guidance. We're like, okay, good, let's tell, let's talk about the other chapter that marty did, and this is what, where we get up to speed and and so now in perpetuity.
Speaker 2:Anytime anyone asks what about Marty Rathbun, we're going to refer them to this.
Speaker 4:Watch the video, because it comes up all the time.
Speaker 2:We forgive Marty. I do not wish Marty ill. Nope, we forgive him. It saddens me to see what he's been pushed to. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:We missed the friendship we had, a friendship he was so, yeah, we wish him the best miss the friendship we had.
Speaker 1:A friendship he was. So, yeah, we wish him the best. Now Jolene said behind the bastards did a great four-parter on LRH. Oh, wow yeah, they've already been there on that one. Okay, oh yeah, but we could tell we could do a four-parter on Dave, no worries. Rural SD lawyer. Wow, hey, rural SD lawyer, I haven't seen you in here in a while. Always interesting, always entertaining, always educational. You are doing the greatest public service in the entire world by bringing light to evil. Why, thank you? That was a very, very kind, very generous Thank you for that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, rural SD lawyer, always great to see you, mrs.
Speaker 1:Mrs Rush is back. Colts make people do crazy things. It's easy to forgive when you both know the truth because you know the gaslighting that went on.
Speaker 4:That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right and that's why when people oh sorry, is somebody in there who's touching stuff? Hands off computers. Tamara says so glad to see Mike doing good, glad to see you all tonight. Thank you for that. Thank you, tamara tomorrow thank you um I don't know. I was mind wiped.
Speaker 2:I was mind wiped you had tomorrow's comment up yeah, um oh here we go get tomorrow wow, mrs rush again.
Speaker 1:Thanks, mrs rush. I'm glad I showed your your chats from last night. Now how many who reach ot3 realize that their whole belief system is based on one of Hubbard's sci-fi stories? Very few, yeah, it's not a lot of people. That's the silliest thing. When you talk about space aliens to Scientologists, they genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. It's literally the internet doesn't know, and that's another thing. If you say body Thetan, scientologists goes, oh, they don't know what they're talking about, because in Scientology we just call that a Thetan. And so in all the lower levels of Scientology you hear Thetan all the time. And that's your Thetan, your own Thetan. And it's when you get to OT3, you find out about these other guys, these space cooties.
Speaker 4:But I have explained many times that when you get to OT three and you read those materials in Hubbard's scrap like scrolling handwriting and if you go well, this is weird, this is just really weird the standard response is well, you don't have to believe it. What does the E meter say? And if it reads on the E meter, then it's going to. You don't have to believe it. What does the e-meter say? And if it reads on the e-meter then it's going to. You get the certainty that, well, maybe there's something here and that I don't really understand and that the great man had insights that I didn't have and couldn't possibly have. So there is not a lot of people that just literally walk away from Scientology when they get exposed to OT3, because that material and the answers to the incredulous looks and thoughts of people is well-grooved in.
Speaker 2:Yep. And that indoctrination in regards to what the e-meter says is from the moment you walk in the door with the pinch test and recall the moment of the pinch and you watch the needle fall, and that, literally from, is reinforced over and over, and over and over, probably millions of times by the time you reach that point.
Speaker 1:Right yeah. April in Amsterdam says did Mitch make any of the Marty videos? That's a good question. I didn't ask him.
Speaker 4:Ask him next time.
Speaker 1:I don't think so, but I don't know he might know about him at least I mean somebody shot him.
Speaker 4:He will know. You know, Rachel knew, Rachel knew that they were shot by SMP. Oh, she did. Yes, oh, she did.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, okay. Well, there you go. I mean, I never talked to anybody, she wasn't involved. When they came out, we were just like oh yeah, that's a gold video. I was like I even recognized one of those props.
Speaker 4:That lamp was in the background of one of the POW videos.
Speaker 1:I was like whoever dressed this messed up, those are not supposed to be there.
Speaker 2:I just like your BSM label Brown Suit Marty.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Brown Jacket Marty Brown.
Speaker 2:Jacket Marty BJM. Yes, right Kisha says.
Speaker 1:Kish like fish. Oh yeah, there you go, and I was going to say Keisha and I said Kish, so I lucked out on this one. Wonder if Marty left blog up as a slap in the face to COS thoughts? I think the blog had to be left up, otherwise the lawyers might have come circling pretty good, because he left it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, leaving it up means that Marty has destroyed himself. He has both sides of the argument, so he has complete. By leaving it up, he is 100 percent nullified as a player on the chessboard.
Speaker 4:Right, but there was a second reason he left it up because he never admitted that he settled with Scientology. Yeah, he has walked this weird line of I'm not commenting, you're all speculating but you don't know what really happened, but never actually denying that he took any money or any money, right, no money went to Marty Rathbun. I guarantee you that it was put into a trust for their son and this and that, and it's paid out over X number of years if there's any money involved.
Speaker 1:But I was going to say the way they do this. It's all time released.
Speaker 1:So, they say you're going to get I'm just using a generic thing you're going to get $10 million. You're going to get $500,000 for every year for X amount of years, as long as you play your part of the bargain, and if you don't, it all disappears and you don't get that the second you break the rules, then that's when we're done. You don't get any more payments, and they've done this with L Ron Hubbard's family and this is a normal thing. Scientology knows how to play this game when it comes to paying people to be quiet.
Speaker 3:And keep them under control. Yep.
Speaker 1:Robert Watson says the generic term for auditing your spouse is called divorce.
Speaker 2:Spot on. Yes, love it Love it. Completely.
Speaker 1:Salty Beach Girl Lori says you four are amazing. Mc squared BTs activate. Yay, okay, thank you for that. Salty Beach Girl Lori, do you know how Monique and Son are now? We saw Claire and I saw Monique on a baking show on like HGTV or something. We were watching it. It was like and next we're going to go to Monique on Team 7. And we're like is that Monique baking a cake on a dessert?
Speaker 3:challenge. I hope they're doing well, I do too that little boy was super cute I hope they're having fun I hope
Speaker 4:he's doing well. Mosey had cancer. You know that no, we did hear that from somebody yes, recently, yes, recently, and I think that she is okay. I think it was breast cancer and I think she is okay. Yeah, wow that's good.
Speaker 2:I mean we visited mosey and marty in texas, um in 2012. I want to say we stayed with them.
Speaker 1:Our kids were, I think, four and two we fished off the back of their yard and we pointed out to them where I did the videos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we pointed out to them, the houses that had pi cameras.
Speaker 1:That was the also that was also, the weirdest thing that I think I ever experienced with Marty is he was this guy, doctor enforcer, osa. He knew how all those things was. And we walked to the beach and I'm like, marty, what's going on over here? And he's like what do you mean? And I go, this guy that's an OSA camera house. And he was like what? And I was like dude, are you so out of it that you don't even know that that house is? Set up with cameras, nothing happens to me.
Speaker 3:Nobody does it except for me. Only Hedley is the special guy.
Speaker 1:Don't mess with me, anyway. But yeah, when that happened, we did a road trip and we stopped off at them and I told Claire I was like something's wrong with Marty. I don't know how he doesn't know that that house you could see the camera lens and the freaking blinds. I was like dude, you got to reevaluate what's going on here because you're not playing the game.
Speaker 4:You got to wake up and smell the coffee.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Eight points of our factor Out our factor. Out R factor. Out R factor. I'm an LRH era ERA recovering kiddo. He always wrote in infinity eight read on from there Whoa, I don't know what that means. I think that Madi wrote that, you think so. I have no idea. Sorry, eight points of out R factor. You are dropping too much information in such a small super chat, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:We were missing the eight points of our factor there.
Speaker 3:Maybe there's another super chat coming from him. Read on it's okay, we really tried.
Speaker 1:Scientology not supposed to go past a misunderstood word and I don't know what the eight points of out our factor are, so that sort of blanks out on everything else. After that, dr x in the house, quick clap to team mc square rushing off to teach lecture on targeted drug delivery systems for cancer and stroke treatment. Treating students to cake and um, I don't look. Soda, soda, soda for the last of the year, sending you all virtual cake, beer, wine, cocktails and prep for IES fundraiser. Thank you?
Speaker 4:I don't know. She said virtual.
Speaker 1:She said virtual. I was like I don't know, because this could go either way.
Speaker 4:Well, she also sent me funds to provide two signed books for the IES fundraiser.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, and she sent us funds for a whole list of giveaways for the IES fundraiser. Oh yes, and she sent us a whole funds for a whole list of giveaways for the IES fundraiser. So we have. We'll have some Davy dolls, some bobbleheads, some SP bracelets all kinds of good giveaways yes.
Speaker 1:No, marty R is running for city council man in Clearwater on Chad's channel. That's okay, that's a Clearwater Chad being cheeky. Vanessa Winberry, hi guys, fellow SP here Loving all the SPTV channels I've found and what you all are doing. Mark, I love your book. Mike, yours is in the mail, can't wait to read yours. Claire, love all Thanks for everything you do. Thank you, vanessa. That was very substantial in terms of like hitting everybody and taking it all of us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, vanessa sarah s leah said cos had evidence of him abusing his son before the adoption was finalized and that's why they were able to get him to do what he did kid, okay, yeah, no, I think it was that he there. There was a possibility that that could happen because he had been arrested for the punch of the horse, scientology was saying that's not what leah said.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I promise you, leah has never said that. Yeah so.
Speaker 1:so I think that was that was their um, that that was their planned and stated attack method. And, and, martin, they told marty this. It wasn't like they said you're going to do this or we're going to do this, and he was like, okay, we don't know what the this is and the that's were, but that's about what we know. Okay, amy, that quote Thomas is not from the Bible.
Speaker 2:I know, I'm sorry, we've been educated, thank you.
Speaker 1:Matt was the first person Marty reached out to in 2008. We wish him well.
Speaker 1:There you go. See, we're not trying. That's another thing. Sometimes people are like you guys should protest the Scientology, you should do this, or you should yell out at the staff victim boat as the people that pay money to Scientology they're all just being used and when they're done with them they just throw them away like trash. So we want to reach out like these channels, and we've been, michael attested this as well. We're now getting contacted by family members of Sea Org members so that they can figure out a very calm and peaceful way to speak with these people so that they can kind of know that there's a place for them to be and stuff like that. I think we have to err on the side of compassion with these people instead of anger. And in Scientology, when someone attacks you, like if that's a suppressive, you immediately are supposed to block everything they say.
Speaker 2:Let me just share an amazing story. So at the spshopcom we have shirts fashioned somewhat after the whole Curious promo from Scientology where we have Curious, and on the back we have this amazing SP logo designed by Mike Brown and a QR code for the foundation website. Well, a woman wore one of these shirts to Disney World a few days ago and somebody scanned the QR code and came up to her and asked her, and it turned out the person asking the questions has a brother who's been in the sea organization for 10 years, who is utterly miserable, and so she said just contact the aftermath foundation. So I'm just saying you never know who our message is reaching. We, we are here for whoever wants to get out of Scientology. We're here to help, and that's just an amazing um indicator to me of the reach that SPTV is having.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Donna Rose says when might we see the next Aftermath story?
Speaker 1:Well, you know we help people all the time and the ones that are willing to tell their story or have their story told, then we'll tell it, and so we are working on one of those right now, and as many people that we help that want to tell their story, we'll help also tell the story, but that's not a requirement or a condition of the aftermath helping somebody that they have to tell their story. We can help them. They can get out of Scientology, they can start a new life, and no one will ever know if they don't want them to know, and that's's fine with us as well. We don't we. We actually started the aftermath years and years before any of the any of us had were doing anything like this on youtube. So, yeah, it's just a. It's just a weird byproduct that's sort of come out of it that people want us, want them, want people to know how they were helped.
Speaker 1:Andrea bear says being an spiritual, isn't that a problem for Scientology? I don't think. I think that's how. Whatever he's doing is obviously not part of the deal that they made, so he's sort of doing whatever he can do. I think he just misses the community and he misses being able to uh, to talk to people and help people, and that part of him, um, needs to do that. That's what I personally think.
Speaker 2:He wants to be a guru.
Speaker 1:Lathanda Groklinga, sending love to you all. It is horrible to lose a dear friend like that. Such a loss and betrayal hurts, no matter how the loss came about.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Lathanda, that's very accurate. Oh, Maria de Jesus Gutierrez says Thomas in the Bible, aka Doubting Thomas, who had to stick his fingers into the wound that killed Jesus because he didn't believe Christ. After his return, after he was crucified. Significant, yeah, I guess that is why. Maybe that's why Marty picked that as one of the things I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'll bow out on that one.
Speaker 1:Not an expert on that one. I'm just gonna say I'm not sure why marty was quoting thomas jefferson and naz in the same article on his blog either, but I'm sure he had some method to his madness. Yeah, um, mrs t rush, it's pronounced rush.
Speaker 2:Thanks all right, okay, thank you, mrs t rush, ms pillow.
Speaker 1:If cos, ms Pillow, if COS is being driven by nuts, oh, if COS is being driven by nuts, yeah, they both work.
Speaker 2:Nuts by.
Speaker 1:SPTV. Let's be honest, that's not a very long drive. Thank you, ms Pillow. We've we've mentioned this before too. If you're watching this and you're new to all this, there is about 50 channels doing scientology content right now. I'm I'm pretty sure you could just watch sp tv all day, every day, if you started right now, and you might go to the end of the year and not run out of videos. I mean, you still have hundreds and hundreds of hours of video. So yeah, scientology is not having fun with this whole thing. Michelle Carpenter, eminent Trouble Source. This is a quest to see Mike and Christy on a game of werewolves. Again, claire can't apologize for killing you. We played a game.
Speaker 1:You want to look at that? It's a game we played on Kelly Copter's channel. It was fun.
Speaker 2:It was fun, it's a game we played on Kelly copters channel, where it was fun. It was fun.
Speaker 1:It's like a Halloween kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So so you get assigned a role of you're either a citizen there's two werewolves, there's a medium and a doctor, and nobody the werewolves know who they are, but nobody else knows who they are and knows who the werewolves are. Yeah, so I called Mitch. Mitch rolled in and he had an anti-werewolf light behind him, which he proudly announced. So I I first said, well, like anyone who shows up.
Speaker 1:There's a video you guys can watch. Otherwise, claire's just going to tell the entire video.
Speaker 2:I'm almost done, I'm almost done. Anyway, michelle killed me at the last round, which meant the werewolves won.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So it's all good. It was a great experience. Thank you for the invitation. Yes, it would be very fun.
Speaker 1:Metalhead? Why was LRH or DM sending spies and not simply exteriorized Thetans? Also, if anyone actual powers, he would be well known. That would be a big deal. How can you believe in supernatural stuff? Well, I'm telling you, if you grew, we all every single one of the people in this video grew up inside Scientology, so we didn't know anything different. We didn't know what everybody else was being taught because we weren't there. So we know what Scientologist kids were being taught and even then I was just working. I didn't give a toot-toot about any of that space aliens or any of that and I didn't even know about it. There was a contractor that asked me you guys are believing about space aliens. I was like dude, what are you talking? I literally laughed in his face. I was like what are you talking about, dude? I was like I don't know any space aliens and I don't know any space aliens and I don't think any of the other people that work here are space aliens so I'm not sure what's going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I broke my leg and I was getting physical therapy out in town in Hemet one time the physical therapist was like is it true that you guys have machine guns in the golf course? I'm like, not that I know of Doris Azevedo super sticker.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that, doris, I appreciate it. Thank you, doris Azevedo super sticker. Thank you for that, doris, I appreciate you. Doris, um, oh, here we go. Jolene Harris Xenu is my fur baby showing off the new kitty. Nice, awesome, there you go.
Speaker 2:Um, ella always wrote infinity eight, but but infinity sideways yep okay yeah yeah, that's true, I do know that oh wait, 880, that was a big, that's a whole story that jeff hawkins could tell.
Speaker 1:But every single scientology book had a very specific cover and each one of those covers is one of the pictures that you would get shown by lord zu and his henchmen when you would go to the relearning place to get reprogrammed and hypnotized about Christ and the trains and the space people and all this stuff. So if you want to know what the pictures are that you got shown, just look on the Internet and look at all the different Scientology book covers. Look at the old covers, the old covers, but the new covers still also have some of that stuff.
Speaker 4:They have a bit, but not as much as the old ones.
Speaker 1:But the old covers.
Speaker 4:Snakes and guys in space, helmets and locomotives and the guy eating the drumstick, the gorilla eating the drumstick and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, l Ron Hubbard very, very specifically said exactly what each picture was to be, because he knew what the pictures was. They show at the programming the machine, at the drive-in, at the Xenu drive-in.
Speaker 2:At the Xenu drive-in.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's a great merchant.
Speaker 1:Hold on, I've got to write that one down the implant station. Xenu implant station drive-in Okay.
Speaker 3:Me and Mark. We didn't do any OT levels in Scientology, so we never heard about any of this stuff until after we left. Like I never heard a single peep about aliens or any of this, I never knew anything.
Speaker 1:And if they would have told me, I'm pretty sure I would have came up with the same BTs activate idea, because that I'm all about that.
Speaker 3:But the thing is, is not every Scientologist knows about this? Because they don't get to those levels, and so when they so a majority don't right, the majority don't.
Speaker 1:So all the media and the whole wide world that knows about that knows way more than the scientologists right yes michael mills super chat thank you for that, or super sticker, whatever they call it um, amy scobie said, and my book. Giveaways too.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're gonna have some amy scobie said, and my book giveaways too. Yes, we're going to have some Amy Scobie abuse at the top books to give away as well. We're almost down to the last ones here. In an effort to keep Louis Farrakhan involved with our church, I'm going to add bow ties to the Sea Org uniforms. Well, that's a good idea, david. Right in with the bellhop. Yeah, that'll work. You know, david Miscavige has been super chatting in every video we're doing these days, so you know we may turn this thing around, guys, if he's sending us $4.99 in the super chat.
Speaker 4:You know he's on the horizon. You know Dave is very involved with those uniforms.
Speaker 1:He really is. He does know, I mean, oh my goodness, I'm not even going to go there. I can't even start a whole new one. Salty Beach Girl, you have such loving, forgiving hearts. Love you all. Well, thank you, we try. We're just humans. We screw up sometimes and do silly things, but we try. Brett Grace, while you guys were in COS, did anyone try and get you out?
Speaker 2:I wish I used to hope and pray that someone would come pick me up some long lost family member.
Speaker 1:I don't think anybody tried to get me out my dad. My dad did let me know on a regular basis that I ever needed anything and he also he had a 1-800 number and so that I could always call him toll free, no matter where I was or where, and it was also kind of you could call a 1-800 number on the property. Sometimes there was a period where you didn't need to get okay because it was no toll and only told calls had to go through reception so I could actually call them and talk to them on the phone. And then they found out and they were like yeah, you can't do that, no more.
Speaker 2:But didn't you call that 1-800 number when you escaped?
Speaker 1:I did yeah. Because it's the only number I knew and I was like oh, I know it's the only phone number I knew besides my own. You know Nextel radio phone that I had and 1-800-I-WANT-HELP, the Scientology-based hotline. If you need to get DP Neverin, just searched behind the bastards. They did a two-series on Hubbard, a three-parter in 2018 and a two-parter in 2019 about his last days. Wow that is amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, behind the bastards we got, I didn't. I've never even heard of this Me either. That's amazing. Okay, well, we did it guys. We got to the end.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make. I'm just going to go through here and make sure I didn't miss anybody and let's do, while we do that, let's do. We showed this yesterday. I just want to kind of pump up the jam on this MarkBunker2024.com. Mark Bunker is running for Clearwater, running for re-election in the Clearwater City Council, and the fact that he is there is Clearwater's only chance to get free of Scientology eventually, and so we want to make sure that he gets reelected and you can support that effort by going to markbunker2024.com.
Speaker 1:And I think we should talk to, we should reach out to Mark Clarency if he wants to do a video and we can talk about when he edited the Jason Begay video at my, on my editing system at Burbank and at my shop, and we can go into all kinds of crazy behind the scenes stories. Um, and then um. If you haven't subscribed to either of our channels, please. If you're watching on Mike's channel, um, like and subscribe. That would be amazing. And if you're watching on the blown for good channel, please like and subscribe. Um, we're not. Uh, per YouTube, 80% of the people that watch these videos are not subscribed to these videos and I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:Believe it or not. Is it on your channel like that too, mike? Yeah yeah, 86% not subscribed. I'm not even sure how that works exactly, but either way, For OSA and all you Scientologists out there.
Speaker 2:We do not share our mailing list. There's no cost to subscribe.
Speaker 1:You'll just get notifications YouTube. There's no exposure.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, exactly so don't be scared. You too can subscribe and become more educated, and we can help you get out.
Speaker 4:I thought you were going to say to Osa and all those who are being forced to watch this as part of your job To get sock accounts. You can reach out to the Aftermath Foundation and we will help you.
Speaker 2:Yes, that too, that too, we would love will help you. Yes, yeah, we would love to help you, please, yes.
Speaker 1:And you don't even have to tell your story by making us help you escape.
Speaker 1:That would well we might as well be more thrilling we might as well, put this up, because you can support the aftermath foundation by going to the aftermath foundationorg and you can sign up to be a volunteer. You can find out, you can sign up to be a volunteer. You can sign up to get on our mailing list so when a new series or a new program comes out on somebody that we've helped, you'll get notified. If we have new merch or new products that support the foundation, you'll know about that. And then also bobbleheads and SP bracelets can be gotten from the spshopcom and the SP shop. All of the things that we sell in the SP shop are go to support the Aftermath Foundation. So all these things, you know, it's all. We were trying to make this all work together and make everything make sense. But I think that's good.
Speaker 3:I think we did it. Mark, you are a scientist.
Speaker 1:I am not a scientist.
Speaker 3:You are a scientist. Look at what you just did. You put all that stuff up on the screen. I just clicked some buttons. I mean come on.
Speaker 1:Let's not pretend that I did fix your microphone before the stream. I will take credit for that. Um, anyway, remotely, um anyway, thank you everybody who joined us today. Um, we, claire and I, are going to do a special video um coming soon. I'm not exactly sure when, but we are going to tell of the very first person that we broke out of the international headquarters and how we did it and how the whole thing happened Blow by blow. No one has ever we've never actually done a video where we tell the entire story of how this happened and nobody had ever done that before either folks happened and nobody had ever done that before either folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was groundbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, a good story. So we're gonna, uh, keep click your bell notification if you want to find out when that's gonna hit the streets and then otherwise, um, yeah, I think we're good, we did it, we got every. Thank you, everybody who commented.
Speaker 2:Thank you for everybody who joined we always go twice as long as we plan to exactly okay, that's just because we love you guys so, so much, and it's always a pleasure hanging with you and the rest of you, 2000 people out there. We love you too.
Speaker 1:And somebody was commenting when I put up my end video, there's just those white boxes there. That's because we're doing this live and I have to put those videos in on YouTube after the video goes live. But because we're doing a live stream with us, we're going to play our special friendly outro.
Speaker 2:And we're in our final two minutes here, folks, just as a reminder.
Speaker 1:And I do have to duck out because I got to get ready for the next stream with Mitch, so I'm going to let you guys wrap this one up. Claire, make sure to play the outro and do all the stuff that I normally do. Don't be a barbarian.
Speaker 2:Thank the outro and do all the stuff that I normally do. Don't be a barbarian. Thank you, bye. Have I ever been a barbarian? Oh my gosh, come on.
Speaker 4:No, you're the least barbarian person I know, honestly.
Speaker 2:About now, so awesome. See you later, guys. Thanks again for doing this with us we appreciate it. Bye, bye, and give me a minute here, barbarian, I'm so fired.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I'm freaking out here.
Speaker 1:The videos are on the brand. The videos should be on the brand.
Speaker 2:I'm looking for the outro. I don't have it. There's no outro.
Speaker 4:It's okay, claire, the only person in the whole world that cares about this.
Speaker 2:I'm looking for the outro I don't have it.
Speaker 4:There's no outro. It's okay, Claire. The only person in the whole world that cares about this is Mark.
Speaker 2:I know we won't tell him.
Speaker 4:We won't tell him and he'll never go back and watch it.
Speaker 2:It's our little secret, amazing Guys. I'll hit end stream. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye, our little secret.
Speaker 1:Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu Xenu is my Homeboy and BFG-branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis there. That helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.
