Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
The Tragic Death of Stacy Moxon Meyer: Scientology's Dark Secret
Twenty-five years ago, on June 25, 2000, Stacy Moxon Meyer took her own life at Scientology's secretive Gold Base in Gilman Hot Springs, California. She was just 20 years old. In this powerful and emotional conversation, Claire Headley is joined by former high-ranking Scientology executive Tom DeVocht to uncover the truth behind this tragedy and expose the organization's elaborate cover-up.
Claire and Tom take listeners deep inside the oppressive world of Scientology's Sea Organization, where Stacy had been separated from her husband for nearly two years, forced to work at a location so secretive her own spouse wasn't permitted to know where she was. The night before her death, Stacy had desperately sought permission to visit her husband in Los Angeles but was denied – a routine occurrence in an organization that systematically restricted members' movements and personal freedoms.
What followed was a calculated deception. Scientology officials, including Warren McShane (described by David Miscavige himself as "a professional liar"), concocted a story that Stacy had been electrocuted while chasing a squirrel into an electrical vault. Claire and Tom methodically dismantle this narrative using police reports and firsthand knowledge, revealing how statements to law enforcement changed throughout the day as the cover-up was coordinated.
Both hosts share their personal connections to the case – Claire was on the property that day and witnessed the aftermath, while Tom observed David Miscavige's cold reaction to the news while on a yacht trip. Their insider perspectives illuminate how Scientology's leadership, particularly David Miscavige, maintains absolute control over every aspect of the organization, from who could leave the property to how tragedies are hidden from public view.
This episode stands as a memorial to Stacy and a powerful indictment of the conditions that led to her death. Through their testimony, Claire and Tom ensure that Stacy's story won't be forgotten and continue their mission to expose the abuses that persist behind Scientology's walls to this day.
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Hello and welcome back to Blown for Good Scientology Exposed. This is not our normally scheduled programming, but we have a very important conversation to have for today. As you can likely see, my wonderful husband, Mr Mark Headley, is not with us today, but I will be joined by my good friend, Tom DeVocht. I'm going to bring Tom in. Welcome, Tom, Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, so we have. Today marks the 25th anniversary of the day that Stacey Moxon Meyer took her life. This for me and I'll let you weigh in, tom as well, but for me this was one of the most of all the abuse and all the things we suffered through. This was one of the the biggest, if not the biggest, tragedies that impacted me personally. I didn't know Stacey incredibly well, but we'll get into the details. I did know her, and she was just 20 years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing. I did not know Stacy either and I wasn't there, but I was on the other end of it when Miss Savage heard about it, which we'll get into. Of course, my phone goes off First one. Guys, I'll get it together. But yeah, I saw how Miss Savage reacted to it and we'll get into that later. But yeah, tragic, completely. Yeah, routine for ms scavenge uncovering it up, but yeah, yep, exactly.
Speaker 1:Anyway, before we get into it, we'll give people a few minutes to show up. Tell us where they're joining from. Oh look, check this out, tom jackson hey you.
Speaker 1:Jackson. Jackson in the house. If you're just joining us, feel free to comment where you're joining us from. Oh, here we go. Hot cross scones Hi, claire and Tom from Brisbane, australia. Cross cones. Oh, we did that one. Be a little patient with me, folks. This is the first time I'm doing a live by myself without my wonderful husband who I lean on for everything. So there you have it. Okay, here we go. We'll do run through a few more here. Holly, hello from Akron, ohio. Pete Jensen, tv joining from NYC. Welcome, jacob Harkey. Welcome from Monrovia, california. Awesome, thank you for being here, jacob. Steve from Cleveland, ohio. Steve from Cleveland, ohio. Monkey Paws, hi from Central Victoria, australia. There you go. Freddy Frog, hello from Newcastle, uk. Can't sleep, oof, I know that feeling. Michael Mallon, hey from Los Angeles. Hey, michael, thanks for being here. All right, so let's see, we're a few minutes in, yep. Anyway, tom, I'm going to link to your sub stack. I'm so grateful to have your voice back in the exposing Scientology community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, so, and again, I wish I could retire from this someday. But while Scientology is still abusing people, that's not going to be possible. And while people still need to get out and start new lives, also it's not going to be possible.
Speaker 1:So here we are, june 25, 2000, is the day that Stacey Moxon Meyer, who was a member of the Sea Organization and who worked at the Scientology headquarters located in Gilman Hot Springs, california, very sadly and tragically took her life. California very sadly and tragically took her life. It was absolutely preventable and Scientology covered it up. And we, tom and I, are going to cover the details of exactly the players involved who, who, the, the factors involved, what led up to this and then how this was covered up, and the factors involved, what led up to this and then how this was covered up, and speculate on why this would be covered up. Of course, you know, between you and I, tom, we can speak with a reasonable knowledge as to why that that took place, but anyway, we'll get into this.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to pull up the slides here. Let's see here. Okay, there we go. This is Stacy Moxon Meyer.
Speaker 1:Um, she came to the uh Scientology headquarters when she was about um 17, 17 or 18 years old. Um, I don't have the exact. Uh, I know that she was born in 1979 and uh, december, I believe, and she she took her life in June 2000. Um, she joined the Sea Org, I believe, at the age of 16. And again, we'll go through the dates and so forth. But very shortly after joining the Sea Org, she married Derek Meyer, who was also at least a second generation Scientologist, who was he worked in Los Angeles. They both worked in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1:Um, in towards the end of 1997, stacy was moved to um the gold base or whatever, whatever the headquarters. Originally she was a trainee for religious technology center, um, but so again, just let's just factor in, this is 1997. She is, by that time, 18 time, 18, 17, 18 years old. Um, she's been married to Derek for a year or two and now she's moved to a location that Derek does not know the location of and is not allowed to know the location of, and from that point forward it's not even that far away.
Speaker 1:Right exactly Hour and a half, right Two hours, yeah, yeah. And from that point forward she the struggle became seeing her husband which, Tom, what I know, I know, in that life that was not uncommon and it was even actually commonplace or even normal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably more normal than not.
Speaker 1:Right, I was thinking about our conversation before doing this. How many years were you positioned at a completely different location at?
Speaker 2:a completely different location. We were Jenny and I, were married 19 years and I think together probably a total a day at a time for two years, maybe max out of that 19. Wow.
Speaker 1:That was totally normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in this case we're talking about Stacy as a teenager, right, you know? Yeah, so, and before we get into the details of Stacy and what happened that fateful day, we're going to talk about some of the key players involved in this. So this is Stacy's father, kendrick, or Ken or Rick Moxon. Um, and this I'll I've included the link to this, these slides, here. This is from my Grinder's blog, um, kendrick, kendrick, rick Moxon is an OT8 Scientologist and an in-house lawyer for Scientology who maintains an office within the Office of Special Affairs International, the 10th floor of the HGB. He has been an operative carrying out Scientology fair game activities since the mid-1970s and continues to this day. So, for context of what we're talking about here, kendrick Moxon was already doing scientology's dirty work before stacy was ever born. What have you what? What comments do you have about moxon, tom?
Speaker 2:I don't know him that well. Um, I've met him a couple times. I again later in the program I'll tell you a conversation I had with him about his daughter and the fact that she left a note. But not a good guy, not even slightly, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I never met him personally either. He did the first day of Mark's deposition during our lawsuit that we we sued Scientology for for, uh, labor law violations, um, and a number of other causes of action, including forced abortion. Uh, kendrick Moxon did the first day of deposition of Mark and it was absolutely brutal and horrendous, like just awful.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll just add in my conversation with him, skipping a little ahead, claire, but to give you an idea who the guy is, I did have a she called me when I was dealing with Daniel. I can't remember his name.
Speaker 1:Montalvo.
Speaker 2:Montalvo. Thank you, yeah, who had left? The church and come to me't remember his name Montalvo Montalvo, thank you yeah who had left the church and come to me. I knew his parents and I had a he had escaped and was pursued very aggressively.
Speaker 1:I know we were involved in that too at the time that was back in 2010. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. But Ken ended up, or Kendrick or Rick ended up, getting on the phone with me about Daniel and he was, you know, threatening me and very dark guy, and I brought up his daughter and the fact that she left a note and said I don't know if you know this, but there was a probably I don't know three, four, five seconds of of delay and then he went right back into the attack and then it made me wonder is he that cold and and probably, you know, you think about the things he's done?
Speaker 1:probably so, but that's his daughter, you know, I know I know, and, and frankly I know, and frankly, as as a parent now I have three boys. You have a daughter like that's. That's for me personally, why I felt so strongly. We need to note this day and on in memory of Stacy and the beautiful person that she was. Let her not be forgotten.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'd like to believe in, in, in to some degree. Do believe that. You know, I don't know Again, I don't know Rick Boston, but hopefully he as a dad he felt the pain. I know Miscavige did not and I know he works for Miscavige and has probably sold his soul to him. But yeah, the way it was handled, unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unreal, absolutely Okay. On to our next slide here. So Carla Moxon that's Stacy's mother. I missed a slide here. Hold on, sorry, it's okay. Yeah, here we go. So the slide that I'm missing here is simply to highlight the fact that both Kendrick Moxon and Carla were both named as unindicted co-conspirators in the largest infiltration of the US government during the late 70s, when the FBI raided multiple Scientology locations. Both parents were named as unindicted co-conspirators. Personally, I think that's an important part of understanding how the hell something like this could happen yeah who they are that's right, yeah, and this one is uh.
Speaker 1:Again, these are images from an article on mike rinder's blog that I linked to in the video description. But this is obviously covering. Let's see. It says thereafter, herman left the building and waited in a car in the driveway of the museum with Don Alverzo and Carla Moxon, the assistant guardian communicator secretary in the District of Columbia. Both of Stacy's parents were doing criminal dirty work for Scientology before she was ever even born.
Speaker 2:And these are the things we know about by the way, that's right, exactly right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly right, yeah, yeah, exactly Okay. This person. For anyone tuning in who doesn't know who this person is, this is Warren McShane and Tom. You and I both have extensive experience with this person, not even going to call him a man.
Speaker 2:What do you remember about Warren McShane? Just a cold-hearted executioner for Miscavige. You know another soulless individual who did the dirty work.
Speaker 1:Yep. And well, the next slide will be Warren's kind of paragraph from Wikipedia, but I will say I don't know about you, tom. Paragraph from Wikipedia, but I will say I don't know about you, tom. I personally heard David Miscavige say and he said to me in multiple meetings that the only reason he kept Warren McShane around is because he's a professional liar.
Speaker 2:Right, I heard that too. Yeah, for sure, yep, yeah, and otherwise he refers, but that's typical of mcavage and and yeah, boy, I could go off in a whole different direction, but yes, that's exactly right you're welcome to if you'd like, you don't?
Speaker 2:want me to? Um, no, that's exactly right. I heard the same from him, um, and that he was an asphalt layer or something. I believe was his professional job before the church or something. And yes, that's what he should be doing. And you know all the all the normal. Meanwhile he layer or something. I believe it was his professional job before the church or something, and that's what he should be doing. And you know all the all the normal. Meanwhile he was keeping them around and using them to do his dirty work and would blame him if anything went wrong.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:But that's Miscavige.
Speaker 1:Yep and last I knew, Warren McShane for years has been David Miscavige's deputy for legal affairs and directly supervises and runs the Office of Special Affairs, especially as it relates to legal and anyone speaking publicly against Scientology, which is a little program right now. Yes, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably Hi, warren yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the last time I saw saw Warren McShane side story was again during our lawsuit. On my first day of deposition I went in and there was a whole panel of Sea Org members in the room doing the deposition, with Mark Marmoreau, who was the attorney at the time, who later became a Supreme Court judge, and Warren McShane was in the room for the entire day of deposition and he did not enjoy that. At one point they Mark Marmore, asked me they would. They were essentially trying to use the argument that, oh well, I was a minister because I was trained as an auditor. And so at one point Mark Marmoro said well, isn't it true, as a matter of fact, that you audited Mr Warren McShane here? And I said absolutely not, that's not true. But yes, I was ordered to put Warren McShane on the e-meter by David Miscavige because he has a bad habit of looking at X-rated images on the internet.
Speaker 2:You told him that right there Nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he was in the room, Anyway, not a nice person, but here getting on to and not for that reason either, by the way.
Speaker 1:Whatever to each their own his crimes, and coverup for Scientology is what I'm specifically talking about. So again, this is Warren's summary from Wikipedia. Mcshane joined Scientology in 1973, held numerous positions in Scientology, including working in the Guardian's office and holding the position of assistant guardian for intelligence in New York. So again, for anyone watching, guardian's office was the earlier version of Office of Special Affairs same book, different cover. They just renamed it. After getting raided by the FBI In 1983, he joined Religious Technology Center. So, tom, let me pick your brains on this. I was looking at this. Warren McShane, I think, is one of the only people that survived David Miscavige's takeover in 19.
Speaker 2:In 1983? You cut out for a second. What did he say? Oh, I can't hear you. Can anybody hear Claire? Can you hear me Touching, touching? I don't hear anything. I can hear you.
Speaker 1:You can hear me.
Speaker 2:Oh, there we go Okay.
Speaker 1:There we go, perfect. Okay, like I said, good thing I gave that warning. I was trying to say that, to my knowledge, warren McShane is one of the few people, maybe even only two or three that were in Hold on.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, uh, that was, that was in religious technology center before david miscavige took over. Yeah, right, right, that that's, that's. Uh, I don't know why I hear myself but, um, yeah, no, that's. I think that's totally true. I don't know of anybody else actually, um, and there's got to be a story behind that. There's some reason behind that, you know what I mean, some real good reason that would be interesting to find out, but that that's totally accurate. I don't know who's held on that long yeah, and maybe it's a sign of just how wicked the guy is.
Speaker 2:you know that he can still be there with Miscavige Same with Markson, actually and he's been around forever too right.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Either that or they've done, and truly I think this is probably more accurate and potentially accurate for Marty too. Miscavige had the goods on them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:He had. He put them up to something that they did. That's much worse than even what we're talking about yep and you can hold it over him and that's the only way.
Speaker 1:I think anybody could suck up to the guy for that long yeah, yeah, because, if you think about it, many other at the time key players, like vicky asneran, jesse prince um god, who else? There's a whole long list of them. David miscavige got rid of all of them because, because they were not 100 loyal to him, he, he absolutely has constructed the existing organization and control so that it's him, and him alone who has complete say-so over everything that happens right yeah completely and it'll use you to the point that you agree to be used.
Speaker 2:And, and I think you know, people that leave have left because they couldn't take it anymore, right? Um, you know, it was too, too, too much, um, or uh, he got rid of them for not cooperating or whatever butting heads.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But anybody that's still there this whole time. There's something seriously wrong with those people.
Speaker 1:Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:And I don't mean that, you know, some of them are trapped. But Warren McShane Boxon, no, these are people who have done very bad things.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Which we probably know half of.
Speaker 1:Exactly, Maybe not even half, I don't think, you know like anyway, yeah, Anyway. So again, Warren McShane was directly involved in covering up the awful events where Stacey took her own life on June 25th 2000. So that's why he deserves special mention here, because he lied to law enforcement and this was one specific time that I know of and we're going to document. So this is another person, Ken Hoden. At the time he was in charge of all public relations with locals in Gilman, Hot Springs, Hemet, San Jacinto. Do you have any comments about Ken Hoden, Tom?
Speaker 2:thought um, um, you know on a personal level, but uh, I remember mcavage talking about him too and just abusing the crap out of the guy over the fact that he couldn't close down highway 79 right I believe there was a whole thing on there and and he um went after ken like wow man, but would continue to use him to the degree he would you, you know, be used to do his dirty work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know? Just crazy side comment that I think illustrates the nature of the absolute insane insanity of the life we lived in the C organization. Do you know that Ken Hoden has a kid?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and his wife sadly died of cancer in los angeles in the early 90s. Anyway, again, it's just crazy to me because even though we were co-workers, we were for all intents and purposes strangers, not only because of the work environment we lived and worked in, but also because of the snitch culture, like there was no such thing as friends in the CR grade.
Speaker 2:Exactly, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway. So Ken Hoden was also there that day and lied to law enforcement. We'll, but we'll get to that, okay, so this is a map of the headquarters that we're talking about. Tom, you worked there for what years?
Speaker 2:I was there in 83. I arrived late 83 until about 86 or 87. Then I left and then I came back in 2001.
Speaker 1:Yes 2005.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and I was the worst period oh, actually not the worst period, I think it got worse after that, but pretty bad period yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, I again. I. I thought it couldn't get much worse when I was there. Yeah, Right.
Speaker 2:We left about the same time right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was there, worked here, with the exception of a year in Clearwater, florida, but for the majority of 1991, until the day I escaped, which was January 24th 2005.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were there through a lot more than I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but I remember, I remember you very well during those awful years. I remember you very well during those awful years. Okay, so this map is from Mark's book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology, and the red circle is around a building known as Studio 2, which was a sound recording studio, somewhat like up on the hill in a more remote part of the property. Would you agree with that, tom?
Speaker 1:yeah, totally yeah, and the electrical vault that we're going to be talking about is right around this building, um, so this is the same image, just in google maps. Okay, so we're going to get to this. I'm going to take this off for a minute so we can just talk about the. So again, for context, it was very. The schedule at the property was that Sunday morning was the time when staff would have to do their laundry, and they would generally stay home just for those two or three hours and then be bused in at lunchtime. That's fair, right, tom.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, leading up to what again, what we're going to talk about, from June, what happened on June 25, 2000. Conditions at the base had been getting significantly worse. David Miscavige had assigned every organization on that property, which was five organizations in total, lower conditions, which meant to Stacey that it was becoming harder and harder and harder for her to go to Los Angeles to see her husband. And factor in it now been almost two years that since she had been even living with her husband, if she saw him for two hours on a Sunday morning, that was a good week. In order for her to go to see her husband, she had to write a CSW, completed staff work and get that approved. By what do you say, tom? Probably like six people, including.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably in the end, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, including it had to be signed off by Religious Technology Center. Specifically, in Religious Technology Center it had to be approved by a woman by the name of Deborah Friedman who was the Inspector General. Master at Arms was her title and she had to approve anybody leaving that property.
Speaker 2:Amazing.
Speaker 2:So um yeah, it was becoming ready and I and I again I got there after. But but you could see the conditions are from talking to you and people involved at the time the conditions were already bad enough. I mean, when I got there after the fact there was no, I don't think they were even having CST anymore. You had, you know, the canteen was selling individual cigarettes. Nobody was getting paid. I mean, obviously the situation was really bad and tough. You're in a prison camp, right? So imagine the stress on this individual, you know, relatively newly married and everything else.
Speaker 1:It's intense and not even 21 years old yet, right, and yeah, like I don't think I don't know someone who's ever been in Supermax, but to me, having from what I've, everything I've read about supermax, the conditions at this property were far worse than supermax so I don't know what supermax is supermax, prison, super, oh, okay yeah, I would imagine. You can't even make a phone call.
Speaker 2:You can't even make a phone call. If you wanted to compare to a prison, I would. I would say that it's worth worse than prison because you're not in prison, but you're in prison and you're being mentally screwed with and you're being, you know, physically. Yeah, worse, I'm sure. Yeah, because you don't realize it, or shouldn't be that way, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. And so again, leading up to the events where, very sadly and tragically, stacey was to be, in my opinion, forced into this position of feeling that she had no other options than to take her own life. To me, 100%, this is false imprisonment. That's how I feel about it.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Totally. It's not even a feeling, it's a fact. Right Document. I mean, there's so many people that were there that have covered it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in fact in our lawsuit, even though we lost in the final ruling, the judge said had we pursued other causes of action, including false imprisonment, we might have fared differently.
Speaker 2:And they're coming, it's coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So the night before Saturday. So the night before Saturday June 24th was and, to be fair, I don't even know how many times Stacey had tried to go, like how many Saturday nights had preceded this, but this particular Saturday night she was desperately trying to get approval to go visit her husband and her father, kendrick Moxon. That Sunday morning, and the people that told her no was Brandon Pearson, annie Tidman, who was the head of Stacey's organization at that time, cmo Gold. Stacey was in the household unit, which meant that she did all of the grounds and maintenance for Bonney View, LA Hubbard's multimillion-dollar mansion for when he's never coming back, yeah, and also Deborah Friedman from Religious Technology Center. All of those three people were involved in telling Stacey no, you cannot leave.
Speaker 2:You can't, I'll jump in here. Yeah, and I bet you. None of them had the authorization to say yes.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 2:Guaranteed they're ready. The order came down for Miscavige Nope, nobody leaves for any reason. And so those people, as much as they probably wanted to approve it, they couldn't. That's right, they just didn't have the authorization to do it. That's the control Miscavige had from day one. I mean, he would say this is the way it is, and all the people who might have been able to approve or say yeah, go ahead with it, could not do it or they'd be in trouble.
Speaker 1:That's right, exactly. And if they wouldn't enforce his orders, then they get busted and someone else gets brought in who will enforce the orders? Yeah, exactly, I mean.
Speaker 2:I remember Annie Tidman and all the people you know those people there. I remember Annie Tidman and all the people you know those people they're. Guaranteed Most of them would have said, yeah, do it. They would have loved to do it. You know, take the time off or go see somebody. So it isn't. It's very much controlled by David Miscavige. It is not a bunch of bad people yes, they're. You know, we were all under the influence at one point in time. But once he sets that order, you're done Right. You know it's, it's over, you do. You can't make a decision for yourself or for anybody else.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, you're absolutely right. Um and yes, also again for context of how bad things we're getting from, at least from November 99 up until well into 2000. David and Shelley Miscavige had been spending most of their time in Clearwater, florida, very, very, very involved in the Lisa McPherson case. You want to talk about that, tom?
Speaker 2:Well, he was not just involved in Lisa McPherson case, he created the Lisa McPherson case. You want to talk about that, tom? No, he was not just involved in the Lisa McPherson case, he created the Lisa McPherson case. I mean, and I think we'd go off on an entirely different story with the Lisa McPherson case but I will tell you, he personally case supervised the case. He personally watched every video and session of Lisa McPherson. He personally declared her clear, so forth, and then when she did her thing and went type three, they locked her up in a room and that was controlled by Miscavige, with daily reports and people on it full time.
Speaker 2:I ran the base and I couldn't even have the information on it. My own security PKk would not tell me what was going on. It was going straight towards you see nothing. I could know nothing, right um, until she died. And then I had to call mishavage and tell him yeah, but um, but uh, again, just completely controlled by him and in caused it. But if you go now back to Stacey and I've written about this, but the cover-up that he went through with the Lisa McPherson case, exactly the same Hide everything, get rid of the people, get rid of the notes destroy everything and it's criminal beyond imagination. Yeah, bad enough in states he's worse than Lisa because he actually had, I believe, had something to do with causing her death, but just absolutely criminal that he you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we can cover Lisa McPherson in another episode if you'd like. That was before I, I, I knew about it after the fact, but either way, the point is I don't think any wrongful death in scientology should be forgotten. I just I again. I this one I feel so strongly about in stacy's case because she was so young.
Speaker 1:Yep, I mean, I don't want to get too deep in the emotions of it because, like it was absolutely avoidable and absolutely Stacey was driven to this and it's a tragedy that Kendrick Moxon should literally anyway. Whatever, we'll keep going, okay, um, we'll keep going, um, okay. So so again, she was trying to go to LA to see her husband, derek, and her father, kendrick Moxon, that Saturday night and it was disapproved. The next day um was Sunday, so majority of the staff did not have to show up and get bused into the property until noon. So it was rare to see anybody at that property on Sunday morning, or just a handful of support staff and people doing amends or lower conditions or the people who were restricted to the property and not even allowed to go home. Do you think that's fair to say, tom?
Speaker 2:I think that's fair to say. You have a theory on this right.
Speaker 1:I do. So Stacey came in. Actually, anyway, there's a number of different people you and I have both talked to about the events that happened that day, but Stacey went into work early and also too, for context, I think it's important to cover that Stacey was part of the electrical team. So any member of the C organization has what's called WQSB, like aside from and the, the job that they're assigned to do on renos renovations days, for example, they would be on a specific team. So there's like the drywall people and the, whatever I don't even remember all the different the, the grounds people, and you know. So, like I used to prune roses on Saturdays with Mariette Lindstein.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the point being, which is important and significant, Stacey was on the electrical team and she had been on that team for at least three or four months from again, the several different people I've talked to who were friends with her. So just pause and let that set in for a minute. You have a 19 year old woman, girl working on electrical like. We're not talking plugging in light bulbs, we're talking like what tom?
Speaker 2:like running wire in buildings and yeah, stuff you don't want to do unless you're trained in electrical, and certainly not vaults like you went to.
Speaker 1:Right, and they're yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, I'm sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 1:They had no training, none whatsoever, doing the work of trained, certified electricians. You had kids basically doing electrical work. All of that to say, stacy was very familiar with these vaults at this property, in fact, um they she had been working on a project with the whole electrical team to remove these vaults. There were only two of them left at this time. So again, she comes in early Sunday morning, there's barely anybody there, as I showed in the map. She goes up to a remote part of the property and, like I said, tragically felt she had no other option than to take her own life. I personally think that her plan was to escape that day. That's absolutely what I think. Knowing everything that came next, I think that she was planning to escape and that Saturday night, when she was told no, you're not going, she decided what she was going to do. Oh, you mean?
Speaker 2:if she was allowed to go, she would have not come back, right? I think that's probably accurate, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean of course.
Speaker 2:And that's why Miss Cabbage had everybody locked up, because he knew people were trying to leave, right, so they couldn't leave. You know, that was his big thing is he had to lock everybody down. Just adding to the to the stress, I could see station he was under, he had to lock everybody up and that was it. Nobody could leave, nobody could, you know, escape. Because he was afraid. And that's the thing he kept telling me was he was afraid people would talk badly about him if they left the base. They're all sps.
Speaker 2:And I mean I'm hearing you know I'm back in clearwater during all this time period and I'm hearing how the entire base there, which would include you, claire and stacy and everybody there, 98 of them are sps and they've all been shipped there purposely to get to miscavige and and this is him telling me they said and showing and they honestly believed it had been loaded up with SPs. And now, if you take it from his point of view and Scientology's point of view, and actual suppressives and stuff like that, you, yeah, you would lock them up and treat them terribly. Yeah, you would lock them up and treat them terribly. You know, you put it all together and you see him establish his view of these people and warren and the other guy, they don't see people, they don't. It's a? Um, it's terrible, right, I mean horrifying.
Speaker 2:But, anyway, sorry I went off on a tangent. No, it's okay, You're right, and you're right.
Speaker 1:It's the antithesis of the glossy facade that Scientology presents to the world at large, trying to present like, oh, we're a religion, we're a you know. No, no, this is a dangerous and abusive cult with a psychopath megalomaniac at the head, controlling absolutely every last thing. Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, so she was. So stacy went in early, um earlier than% of the staff that worked at that property. She was not there by accident. She was not there by whim. She was not there chasing a squirrel or scared for the. You know what happens to squirrels when they get in the vaults. We'll get to that, Anyway.
Speaker 2:So how did she they get in the vaults? We'll get to that, um anyway. So how did she end up in the vault, I mean, I mean, how would my question that wasn't her job right? Her full-time position or post?
Speaker 1:not.
Speaker 2:Not her full-time position, no, but she worked as a no she she was the maintenance person like now I'm filling in the gaps, sorry, no, it's okay, she did grounds maintenance for L. Ron.
Speaker 1:Hubbard's home.
Speaker 2:Right, so she's doing that. She has no reason to be in an electrical vault, right?
Speaker 1:No, right, she did not. And around 1130 is what I remember, around 1130 is what I remember I had I would. Mark and I were living on Sublet Road at the time, which was very close, just right off that property, and Anka Sutter is the person who ran internal security in Religious Technology Center, so she supervised security at the base and was involved in all manner of internal security matters. She received a phone call from gold security and what she told me was that, uh, cause, I woke up when she was called in the house that we shared and she told me there's been a major accident. I was like uh, and that the entire power for the entire property had gone out.
Speaker 1:And what Anka said, which I have not been able to verify as true or false, is that when an electrical incident of that magnitude, um occurs, the electric company automatically calls nine one one. So I and again I don't know that that's true or false I believe it to be true because I highly doubt anyone on that property would ever call 911, by my own experiences when I almost lost my leg and nobody called 911. Right, anyway, but 911 had been called. So Anka and I both went into the property to find out what on earth was going on.
Speaker 2:Marion Powell is the person in Religious Technology Center Another person I don't have a picture of her, otherwise I'd put her mug on this slide show. Recently I heard really I thought that was marina pazotti.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe it is. Oh, really, that's terrible. Anyway, yeah, yeah, no, um, I mean, marion may have, but I haven't I could be somebody else yeah, um, marion is the one that um first told. First told me go interview the, the co-workers of stacy, and tell them that there's been a terrible accident and that she, uh, was trying to rescue a squirrel and fell in the vault.
Speaker 2:She told you about the squirrel.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, yep, I took it at face value, not knowing anything, in the flurry of what was going on, but the moment I started talking with the people close to Stacy, I very quickly realized this was a complete falsehood. Very quickly realized this was a complete falsehood, like um stacy's closest friend said.
Speaker 1:I was really worried she was going to do this and that, like the moment I heard that that statement, I was like wait, what? What on earth is going on here? Um, and of course, meanwhile, warren, warren McShane was supervising like came in, figured out what was happening. Again, warren McShane, who works directly for David Miscavige.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he carefully controlled exactly who was going to speak to the police officers that responded to the scene. The police officers that responded to the scene. Jackson has told me he's talked to some of the responding people that were on site that day and that they all said it was absolutely one of the most horrific things they've ever seen. Completely, yeah, so. So by around um one 30 that Sunday afternoon, uh, I I knew that Marion was lying and that Stacy had taken her life.
Speaker 1:Um later in that day, marion was talking to another executive and reference the fact that she had found Stacy's note to another executive and referenced the fact that she had found Stacy's note. That was a note to her mother with some of her most valued just some personal belongings of hers that she wanted her mother to have. All of that was completely covered up by the Scientology executives Warren McShane, ken Hoden and also Warren's daughter, carly McShane. So, yeah, and and this lie was also told to her parents, to my knowledge, by the way. But then let's let's get to your experience after that. Speaking to ken moxon, as you referenced earlier now, having covered everything that that took place that day that led to Stacey feeling she had no other option being falsely imprisoned, not allowed to see her husband. She's 20 years old, not allowed to see her parents.
Speaker 2:She decided to take her life in the most gruesome way imaginable, but I don't know what else was available to her. But yeah, so you want to know where I was, what I was doing. I was on the three wins with Miscavige and we were on. I realized two weeks before this I think roughly two weeks before this the Lisa McPherson case had been dropped. The charges were dropped on Miscavige and on the church by the state attorney. So it was celebration time for Miscavige. She was still into scuba diving at the time.
Speaker 2:The maiden voyage event was coming up or it just occurred or something. So it was off to the ship and luckily not so luckily I got invited and was there and I remember the calls coming in. He was late, actually for crazy, but so I guess he got the call in the morning it would have been a late morning, I think and he was late for a yacht that we he or I guess Janet Light had booked for scuba diving. And he came to it and he was upset and Shelly told the story that she'd committed suicide. But Shelly knew she'd committed suicide. There was no question about it. Somebody told them about the note and so forth.
Speaker 1:I said the word sorry, okay, all right, it is what it is Taking her own life yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they knew this right from the get go and you know it would have been got. See, if I go back to the 911 call Claire. I don't think Jackson could probably confirm this, but I don't think any system at gold is set up to call 9-1-1 automatically.
Speaker 1:Right? No, it was not. It was definitely not.
Speaker 2:So my, my, my experience would be somebody like Warren McShane would have been told immediately this is the situation, this is what's happened, and he would have come up with the whole story. And I don't know if it's him or somebody or if it was miscavaged directly, but you know, okay, she was chasing a squirrel in. Go with it, run with it, you know what I mean and hide everything and don't let anybody be interviewed. That knew her, get everybody away, and it would have been controlled like that to such an extent. But to point to me is that number one imagine another CEO of any corporation. You wouldn't have a situation like this, but an accident like that, or or if it was, you know, taking your own life, how did you get to the top dog like that, right by phone calls so urgently that you know this is um, it just tells, shows you the level of control that this guy had to have on everything.
Speaker 1:On everything, on everything, everything.
Speaker 2:This was not I did I and I've used this as an example, but I mean this um, when I went to do building 50, the renovations and this is in 2001 and and uh uh, the birthing buildings and so forth, there were binders of recordings of Miscavige saying you have to use this type of doorknob and don't use this type of grout on the tile, and the spacing of the choice started to be 18 inches, not 12 inches. I mean, the guy controlled everything, everything Down to do. You have cigarettes to smoke? No, sell them one cigarette at a time, out of a pack. I guarantee you that would go back to Miscavige, right? That type of control, yep.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So just you know for the record. So here's this type getting a call about this woman taking her life and then his response isn't it's so tragic. His response is cover it all up, hide everything, get everybody out of there, burn the note, whatever he told them to do with it, and everybody cooperates, slewing with both hands and going at it. That was the scene and the amount of control that this guy had. And yeah, you go. You know any one of the people there could have said, oh wait a minute, this is bullshit. You know what I mean. But after years of doing it and that sort of thing, you don't. And back to Moxon and Lyman you go. These are hardcore criminal people, just these hardcore miscavige that that Executed this plan and talked to the police and and twisted it around and made it look like it wasn't what it was to protect the church.
Speaker 1:Right, Like to make the point. Did you ever, while you were in this organization, were you ever asked to speak to law enforcement?
Speaker 2:No, I did it, but no, but it was disrelated. I yeah, no, you know, no, no, no, no. And to make a point on that too, take Stacey 19, 18,. Whenever she got in, a lot of people were in there from childbirth, practically, even people who would come in somewhat later. You didn't know that it wasn't okay and that you could pick up the phone and call the police if you got hit.
Speaker 1:Right and and to be fair we couldn't, we couldn't actually add that, you couldn't anyway, but yeah but but you weren't, you weren't informed of the laws.
Speaker 2:There's no posters up like you find in any other business of you know the things that you, you can report and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:You weren't, yeah, you weren't. You weren't informed of the logs? You weren't, you weren't, you didn't know that. I mean, I don't know how many people knew there was a 9-1-1. Do you know what I mean and what it was really for? Yeah, um, um, so you had that aspect of too shit. Debbie cook was the captain of the fso. Here's how it um, uh, I'm unaware of things we were. She's the captain of the FSO, a multimillion dollar organization making what? 2.5 to $7 million a week.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Captain of the FSO, chairman of the board, I think, for CSFSO, and she didn't know who the president of the United States was. There was no TV, there was no. I mean nothing, no outside connection, nothing. Very controlled world, totally disconnected from anything else. And that's how they can get away with these things and that's what makes it so cultish. But just to put it all in perspective, no for sure, One of many things.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's absolute insanity, especially now. I've been out just past 20 years now, and now I've been speaking out against Scientology longer than I was in the C organization, not longer than I was in Scientology just because I was born into it. So unfortunately, I'm going to be 60 by the time I hit my 50, 50 mark. Yeah, anyway, to finish up here, the last part that I wanted to cover. As you know, tom, and as you covered in your sub stack, the reports of this tragic incident with Stacy, that she was driven to by Scientology, are absolutely awful, really, really heartbreaking to read. Devastating as a mom, devastating as a mom, devastating as someone who knew Stacey. I do not know how Kendrick Moxon or Carla Moxon can even dare to live with themselves, honestly. Anyway, I'm going to put back in the slides here because I do want to take a few moments to highlight where it's documented in the police reports that this squirrel story was completely concocted. So let me add this back in here. Okay, it's a lot. Okay, so this is an excerpt from the police report.
Speaker 1:At about 1350 hours I spoke to stars. I'm going to say that, um, this person, by my recollection, would have been James Hall, who was Stacy's direct supervisor at the time. He also worked in the grounds maintenance for the household unit which was Elrond Hubbard's house. This person is the supervisor of maintenance for Golden Era Productions. Again, they're lying. He was not in Golden Era Productions and neither was Stacy. But whatever, that was the shore story. Again, just another example of how everybody at this property was not only told but then trained on what to say if they were ever asked a question. I asked him if he was the supervisor for Stacy Meyer. He stated that he was. I asked him to describe her duties to me. He stated Stacy was responsible for light maintenance around the facility. Okay, then, scrolling forward, he told me today was a normal workday for Stacy. Again, false, it was not a normal workday. It was not like everyone showed up at 9.30 like any other day or 8.30.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a Sunday, it was not a normal workday other day. Or 8, 8, 8, 30. Yeah, it was a Sunday, it was not a normal work day, um, he said. I asked him if he's ever seen Stacy work on any lawn sprinkler systems on the facility, he said he'd never seen on uh, seen her work on any lawn sprinkler systems. I also asked if Stacy has ever performed any electrical maintenance work. He stated that he has never seen her work on anything electrical, with exception of changing of light bulbs, which, as we covered, is 100% a complete falsehood. Stacey very well knew about those vaults. In fact, two weeks prior, beckett Wells, who was the chief electrician of Golden Era Productions at this time, had done a briefing to everyone on the electrical team describing the dangers of these high voltage vaults.
Speaker 2:Okay, Maybe we should get the idea.
Speaker 1:What's that? Oh yeah, Completely.
Speaker 2:Maybe. Yeah, completely get the idea yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Um, he also stated that stacy seemed fine mentally. She was happy and not depressed the last time he spoke to her. Again, complete and utter fabrication. And, by the way, just because I meant to say this at the beginning of this episode, all of the information that I have has absolutely been reported to multiple law enforcement agencies. In uh, when I left in 2000, 2008 to 2010, mark and I were actually confidential informants for the FBI, like signed sealed. Mark was CI1 and I was CI2. So, yes, every piece of information about this incident has been reported to law enforcement. The point is to keep Stacy's memory alive and to educate people on how Scientology covers this stuff up, because you literally it's just just who's behind it exactly one man exactly that's right, one man, um, okay.
Speaker 1:So then I asked who I'm saying is james hall, if he could think of any reason why stacy would remove the cover from the vault, place a ladder inside and enter the vault. He had told me he had no idea why she would do that again. Uh, so okay, so here we go. This is the part I wanted to highlight at about two oh seven, 14 oh seven. So now the first one here. Let's go back. So we're talking here 150-207.
Speaker 1:I spoke to another person. This person is an employee of Golden Era Productions Again, false. I know that this person is Carly McShane, warren McShane's daughter, who also happened to be Stacey's because, even though Stacy was married, because her husband didn't work at this property, they lived in a. She lived in a girl's dorm and Carly was her roommate. Um, she told me she spoke to Stacy earlier in the day at about nine, 15 hours in her office. She said stacy seemed fine and was happy and not depressed. You know, obviously carly was probably chosen because her father has trained her very well on how to lie to law enforcement. That's my uh deduction from this.
Speaker 2:Um, okay, moving forward here to really just get to the point of this here again, wrath of Miscavige. Where you're? You're just, you're carrying out orders and you're carrying out and saying the things that you're expected to say. You have no life, you have no control of how, what you think or what you do or anything. I'm not justifying it for him, I'm just saying that they, you know yeah, she wasn't depressed Like I'm not. You know what I mean. Again, it's the world that we lived in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, completely Okay so now. So remember the first interview was 1.50. Now it's 3.15. I was contacted by the senior Again saying this was um james hall. By my recollection. James told me he now recalls speaking to stacy on saturday evening about a squirrel that was electrocuted.
Speaker 2:So again that you see, you see where, where the lies start filtering in that you know, go with the squirrel thing. You got to give them an answer to that question. They're they're trying to outthink the police and I'll think you know, okay, go back and give me something. It sounds even to us now. You go the fuck. Are they saying right, and the police officer had to go. What? What you're coming up with? It's three hours later running after a squirrel. By the way, squirrels, I don't think, run down into those things, they run up trees, they run away, not in normally. But it's just such a bullshit story.
Speaker 1:Completely and, like I said, we know directly from multiple sources that this rodent story has been used even more recently in very alarming cases, has been used even more recently in very alarming cases. So, um, that those, those, uh, you know, even within the last two, three years, for example, and that's actually why, um, the Michael J Rinder Aftermath Foundation was asked to set up a direct law enforcement crisis line, like a dedicated line for law enforcement, so when they run into situations like this and they are limited by what they can do and say there's a crisis line that they know to call. So, yeah, okay, so again. So this, this I really just wanted to kind of document the fact that we see the story change, even within the police report of cover-up and lies. Um, this was then the article that was put out. You can't read it, but I have the. The text of it is from here.
Speaker 1:Scientologist accident victim is identified. The 20 year old hemet woman died after she fell in a transformer vault by Karen Marriott. A woman killed in the Church of Scientology's film Studio Grounds near San Jacinto is 20-year-old Hammett resident, stacey Meyer. According to the county coroner, she apparently was electrocuted when she fell in a transformer vault on Golden Era Productions north of San Jacinto, said Riverside County Sheriff. I can't read all of this because it's behind a whatever, but you got the point.
Speaker 1:Um, the other part I wanted to cover here is this um, osha, osha spokesman dean fryer said the agency expects the investigation may be done within three months. So the part I didn't read was covering that there was going to be an OSHA investigation. Uh, correctly. So which any, any investigator worth their salt should have, of course, found out that, oh, there's teenagers and young people on this property with absolutely zero certification as electricians working on uh, zero certification as electricians working on high voltage electrical projects. Fryer said the state will look into how the woman got into the underground electrical vault where she died. Anyway, all of this to say that the OSHA inspection failed completely and they were fined I think it was $400 for some extension cords and I think you wanted to talk about this, right, tom.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't, you know. There's so many aspects I don't know. When did they come in and inspect? Do we know that the time difference?
Speaker 1:It was that same day that they started. It was the same day, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So somebody would have cleaned up as much as they could, as quickly as they could, and then limited what they could see and and and all that. But, um, yeah, I mean my experience when I got up there in 2001 with, uh, I did, you know, a lot of construction renovations in clearwater, florida, um, which was not a friendly environment for the church. So when it came to getting permits and that sort of thing, they were and they're normally assholes. They were really asshole now about it, um, but when I got there, um, you know, just to go back real quick to to you know, stacy, you work in electricity Building 50's electrical was a nightmare and it was all done in-house.
Speaker 2:Everything about the building was a nightmare and it was all done in-house. People were just not trained to do it. So it's right there from an OSHA perspective or permitting perspective. You go what the hell are you guys doing? I mean, you're not qualified to do it. The building's going to fall down. So we weren't qualified to begin with and if they knew who was doing it and that they weren't trained and they weren't journeymen and that sort of thing, there would have been big trouble. So they covered it all up. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But you've also got the but no doubt it involved tax exempt dollars being used. Oh, very much so, and I was about to say so.
Speaker 2:When I finally had to get inspections for sort of occupancies and that sort of thing for building 15 and things I was working on, they the inspector would come in and chat for 10-15 minutes and leave. There were no inspections. They were bought off. Uh, it was all in hoden, whoever, all personal relationships and gifts and this and that, and so there was no um, uh, there was no control. There was again its own little bubble everything arranged, paid for, people, bought off, uh, to the degree.
Speaker 2:I mean to take it to a different perspective for a minute the building 50. The first recommendation building 50 is the rtc building. 34 million had been spent on it before I got there, um, it looked like a renovations project of a older building. Um, it was brand new. Um, and the contractors I brought in recommended the same thing, I thought, which is, if you, if we want to do it right and save money on it, tear it down and redo it because it's not safe. It was built that badly and this again is the in-house untrained people doing it and then buying off the inspectors and so forth. So you have no checks and balances and it's a complete nightmare Anyway yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did want to comment. It struck me in the OSHA report that I looked at it has a line item where they notified ahead of time of the inspection and it said no. And I'm like that's physically impossible at that property. They show up at the gate and they cannot get in until security lets them in. And they cannot get in until security lets them in, which means that security immediately gives the destination site a heads up that they're coming right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway.
Speaker 1:Totally so, yeah. So again, all of this on this particular day, you know, as my son is going to be 20 next year, and again, it's absolutely wrong what Scientology is able to get away with, and this is why I decided that we should talk about this on this day to remember Stacey and remember the crimes that Scientology covers up, and I just really appreciate you doing this with me, tom so your perspective.
Speaker 2:I see you're upset and I understand that. I'm there too. Ellie will be turning 10 here at the end of the year and that's about the time I joined the Sea Org. Two years later, I was, I was, and I look at her now and I go how could you possibly do it? Yeah, but um, I see you're upset and emotional about it and I, I totally understand it. I'm angry and and uh, I am, I am too.
Speaker 1:I am too. It's just when I think about it from from my role as a mom.
Speaker 2:It is so I know believe me, I hear you a hundred percent, but I just get so angry about the warm exchange to Ken Hoden's, to you know and then Miscavige, controlling this whole thing and still walking around like everything's normal.
Speaker 1:I know, and still getting away with it to this day. So we will not rest. We will continue to do the work. Thank you for again bringing your voice back. Are you good if we take a few questions before we finish?
Speaker 2:up today.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome, clara is going to help because, like I said, I'm doing this solo for the first time. Coffee First Always. Your work is so important for all the people who suffered at the hands of David Miscavige and his abusive cult. This is for Stacey and BFG's advocacy. Thank you, Coffee First Always. I appreciate it. Scientology, peeling the onion that's Mark Fisher. Have you and Tom ever seen a squirrel at the property? I never did. I saw a raccoon.
Speaker 2:Good point, Mark.
Speaker 1:Good point. No, I saw a raccoon one time by Seymour Gold's office when it was in the ranchos. Yeah, one time by simo gold's office when it was in the ranchos. Yeah, I, that's a really good question. There were peacocks. I remember the peacocks because they used to shit in the buildings.
Speaker 2:Excuse my language yeah, but um, yeah, you mean? Um, yeah, there were birds all over the place, but I think he's right now and I think about I don't remember ever seeing a squirrel there. No, unless you're talking about Dave and Mayo. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1:But no, I don't remember ever seeing a squirrel there.
Speaker 2:Actually come to think of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good point Mark, yeah, really good point. Okay, one love 51,000 question Did everyone know at the time that she took her own life or did everyone figure it out? Looking back, nobody knew, only the people close to her and the um Marian Powell, warren McShane. I figured it out because I interviewed people. You know the, the three people who were close to her. Um, but no, in fact there was God, I think it was.
Speaker 2:I guess the only ones that knew really were the people that read the note or knew about the note, which would include Warren McShane, ken Houghton and David McScavage and Shelley McScavage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that's how criminal it is.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm sure other people went oh, she killed herself. There's no question about it.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they were suspicious of it, but what I was going to say, though, is that the next day it was again one of the weirdest things that I've ever seen happen on that property. There was a service held in Massacre Canyon Inn by Ken Hoden as the minister, telling everybody there oh, this was a tragic accident.
Speaker 2:PR cover-up. Yeah, I mean it's just total yeah.
Speaker 1:Because a lot of people were very, very upset? No, they would not. So that's my answer to that question Aid question. What was Derek's reaction? What is Derek doing nowadays? We're talking about Derek again, derek Meyer, which was Stacyacy's husband, right?
Speaker 1:right right I I didn't ever talk to him directly. I was not, you know, whatever. I was in internal in religious technology center. So the fact that I had any involvement was really just because I was so shocked and came in early that sunday morning. Um derek was brought to that property and went through very thorough handlings, I'm sure to convince him.
Speaker 2:He was brought to the property.
Speaker 1:He was yeah, wow, which was rare, because he didn't have clearance.
Speaker 2:It makes sense. If you think like Miscavige, bring him up. Yep Could have been the prison Now we got control over him. He can't leave, he can't you know yeah.
Speaker 1:You can't leave, you can't you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that Control the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I might be mixing it up, but I'm pretty sure that he was a security guard in Los Angeles, so, and he was at the property for an extended period of time being handled. Yeah, and I'm not sure what he's doing now. He's likely still in the C organization. Is would be my expectation. His brother, Alex Meyer, was also in the C organization in Los Angeles. Anyway, that's the yeah, there you go. So that's Derek SP Spanglish.
Speaker 1:Have you seen the video of Carla Moxon that Angry gay Pope posted featuring her star in the sky monologue? It is pure unadulterated insanity and horrific that she would focus on that rather than her daughter. I did see that SP Spanglish and it was mind boggling there. If you go on YouTube and search Carla Moxon, there's a video that was, I guess. I didn't realize Angry Gay Pope had put it up, but I saw it and it's absolutely nutty. Yeah, and meanwhile, again, how can Kendrick and Carla possibly live with themselves not knowing the truth of this tragedy? Perspectives Wellness. Is there a higher than average cancer death rate among Scientologists? What would you say to that, Tom?
Speaker 2:No, and and I say that off the cuff, but here's my, here's my point of view of this uh perspective wellness. I don't think so. I think you're giving Scientology too much credit. I don't think it caused cancer, I don't think it. I don't think it cured cancer, I don't think it. It uh, I mean stress and all that sure that increases it, as we know. But no, I think what happened in my opinion, strictly my opinion you're in a pretty closed group. So you hear about this person got cancer and died, that person got cancer and died. Because it's a closed group it seems like a bigger percentage, I think. But outside I've known many people that have died from cancer. I think it's a thing, it's screwed up, but I don't think it's personally. I don't think it's more or less in Scientology. I think it's just because when you're in that group of closed group, you hear it makes sense that you go, oh, it's related, but I personally don't think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, no, I, so I have a different perspective on it thought that I would share with you. In response to that, though, is that specifically for members of the C organization, and even more so at that at that property? To me, like I never heard of someone getting cancer and surviving, it was always they got cancer, and by the time they found out it was stage four and boom, they were gone.
Speaker 2:For sure. My mother was like that inside and I think from that perspective, yeah, okay, the food that we ate the rice and beans full time, we never slept, we smoked like chimneys. You know there were all those factors as well, but I and so maybe so from that perspective. But I worry that people get the idea that if you read OT3 material you're going to die of pneumonia.
Speaker 1:Oh God, no, no, no, not because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:It's stress, it's all the things.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have that power. No Power or magic to it, no, but from a stress, eating, sleeping, that sort of thing, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're on the same page. No, I don't. I don't think it has anything to do with Scientology. It has to do with Scientology abuses.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, yeah. There you go I would. I would blame Miscavige more for it than I would. The technology of Scientology. One hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. All right, Jacob Harkey. Glad to see you speaking out, tom, and loving your approach with the Indite David Miscavige initiative. May Stacey rest in peace. Thank you so much, jacob. We appreciate you. All right, we'll do a couple more here and then we'll call it wraps, because I know we have kids and so forth. To get back to One love 51,000. How much did one cigarette cost?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know, but I will tell you. When I arrived there and this is my sub stack post too but there were two girls I'd known, or one of them I'd known, and I'd pull up my camels, I smoked and I lit one up and they were practically drooling. Anyway, after a few minutes I offered them cigarettes and then I found out, yeah, they were selling in a pack of cigarettes. Whether you like the brand or not, you could take a cigarette. But supposedly they were having to buy their own toilet paper at the canteen and it was all just to tie back, it was. Also, they couldn't leave the base or go out to a regular store to buy anything. They had to be controlled in that environment. So, yeah, individual cigarettes.
Speaker 2:I want to say dimes to answer your question, but I don't remember for sure. And the problem was they couldn't come up with the dimes. They had to go digging through old clothes and stuff like that because they weren't being paid. And when I brought it up on a roll for just a second here, claire, sorry when I brought it up to miscavige in my daily report, fucking guys haven't been being paid, he goes what the fuck? How could that be those criminals. And you know, he and he goes after jaeger and all the guys and, of course, two months later I find out no, he's the one ordered, don't pay him yep, exactly, he would do that all the time.
Speaker 1:He would get all up in arms finding out that we hadn't slept in months and months, and months.
Speaker 2:And he's the one that ordered it. This is why I don't do YouTube videos, because I will go off for three hours.
Speaker 1:We'll wrap it up. It's all good. Okay, we'll do one last question, clara, and then we'll wrap it up. Thank you, catherine Olson. I'll just say here that a few days after this happened, her husband, derek, put out an issue regarding safety around high voltage areas. How freaking creepy is that. Thank you for adding that, catherine. Yeah, like I guarantee Catherine and I were. She mentioned this to me the other day and I was like, yeah, that's typical.
Speaker 1:Typically, what somebody would do as part of lower conditions is deliver an effective blow, like I'm going to make sure that this never happens again and as part of proving that he's bought the story anyway. It's really sad. What happened to stacy is an absolute tragedy. Um, and I truly hope that anyway, whatever, we'll just end it at that. I she was a beautiful person should not have been driven to what she felt was the only way out. Um, again, it was false imprisonment and a whole long list of crimes involving cover-up that were perpetrated by David Miscavige directly and Warren McShane. And again, I'll include the link to the very detailed article that you put up on your Substack, tom. That is our show for today, folks, tom, again, thank you so much for joining me for this.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate it and see you everybody.
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