Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
From Scientology to Freedom: How the Church Attacks Defectors - Scientology Attacks - Episode #1
Marc and Claire Headley share their 20-year journey of relentless harassment from Scientology since escaping the Sea Organization in January 2005. They detail the elaborate surveillance, infiltration tactics, legal threats, and family disconnection policies the Church employs to silence former members who speak out.
• Left Scientology's Sea Org in January 2005 after 15 years inside
• Received "Suppressive Person declares" without their knowledge
• Scientology demanded $163,000 in "freeloader fees" for their freedom
• Private investigators constantly surveilled their home and businesses
• Phone records illegally accessed, trash collected, family connections exploited
• Scientology infiltrated their businesses and attempted to frame them
• Became FBI confidential informants in 2010 investigating human trafficking
• Considered witness protection due to severity of harassment
• Moved to Colorado in 2011 to escape intensity of Los Angeles surveillance
• Continue to face online attacks, hate websites, and periodic surveillance
• Have contributed to major documentaries, books, and legal cases against Scientology
• Despite attacks, they've raised three children while running successful businesses
The more you expose Scientology, the more they will attack you, but these attacks can be weathered. If you're considering leaving Scientology, focus first on rebuilding your life before speaking out.
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PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2131160
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blown-for-good-behind-the-iron-curtain-of-scientology/id1671284503
RSS: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2131160.rss
YOUTUBE PLAYLISTS:
Spy Files Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWtJfniWLwq4cA-e...
Hey guys, welcome back to the blown for good channel. I'm Mark Headley. I'm joined here today by my beautiful wife Claire.
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, hey.
Speaker 1:Claire, hey, hey, hey, and yeah, we're going to do a live today, and today is going to be a little bit different. We don't really have a specific series or topic that we're talking about today, but, as usual, if you want to tell us where you're coming from in the comments, we usually like to let people show up for a few minutes and then we just call out where people are tuning in from, and anyone who comments is automatically entered to win a merch giveaway. That we'll do at the end of the show, and so, yeah, let's go to the comments and Claire will read these for you guys.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, yep, anita. Hello from the netherlands. Nice karen ortiz. Hello from northern california, hi. Karen kb. Hi from texas, mary k london. Hi all from a scorching hot albuquerque, new mexico. Yep, it's definitely way hotter in albuquerque than it is in colorado. Uh, share. Hello from the netherlands, also nice, there you go, hello and we have a lot of netherlands trevin on. Good evening from the netherlands. Thanks for joining us, trevin on uh, here we go manon, hello from the netherlands.
Speaker 2:wow, way to go, awesome. Kb dang, netherlands, representing impressive. Yes, indeed, clara, netherlands are repping in the chat today. Yes, and thank you as always, clara, for being our amazing mod. We appreciate you. Um, betsy, sue, just call me betsy. Greetings from cameron, north carolina. Hey, betsy. Debbie dallas, texas, nice, lacey b, you're good. Oh, did we freeze? Oh, no, we're good. Hey, yanson helloansen. Hello from the Netherlands as well. Oh my goodness. Boom Audie Zebra, hi from Malden, essex, uk. Awesome Things from Claire's hometown, manchester, uk, boom Dorte, good evening from Copenhagen, denmark, nice, that's awesome. Juliet, hi from Lancagen, denmark, nice, that's awesome. Juliet, hi from Lancaster, pennsylvania.
Speaker 1:Shout out to PA. Yes. I've done a lot of work in PA in the last few years.
Speaker 2:Yes M Hello from Washington State Hello.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a bunch more here.
Speaker 2:All right, we did that one Yep, yep, yep. We got that one Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1:We got that. Oh, look at that.
Speaker 2:Love food. Kitchen beard for good is looking excellent today. It looks freshly trimmed. I'm so grateful to have my hubby back. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:I've been out. I've been out. I was in, I was in the South, I was in, um, I was in the south, I was in mississippi and actually it's funny, I was at one of our clients that scientology sent a bunch of uh emails to and they sent a picture of me passed out drunk. And this is the client that put my the picture that uh scientology emailed them of me passed out on Hollywood Boulevard.
Speaker 2:From your first birthday out, from getting out of the Sea Org from May 2005. Yeah, so it's fair to mention because it's 20 years ago 20 years ago and they put it.
Speaker 1:The client put it up on their notice board and they said where was this guy when he was here last? So, yes, it was a great client, one of my favorite clients actually and yeah, so it's all good there. Okay, I'm trying to think of how we want to do this. We left Scientology in January of 2005.
Speaker 2:Yes, you left January 4th and I left January 24th January 4th and I left January 24th.
Speaker 1:Yes, and from the time that I left, they were calling me. You were calling me on their behalf. My sister called me. A bunch of people from the place were calling me and basically trying to convince me to come back. I didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh, and David Miscavige specifically had ordered that you be brought back. He ordered Jenny DeVocht Linson to bring you back, which is the only reason I didn't make my escape sooner, because I had this vision in my mind that I would be escaping. Meanwhile they would have captured you, bringing you back and I would still never see you again. So I had to bide my time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so up until you left, they were making. It seemed like they were making an earnest attempt to have us come back and that they'd resolve everything, all of the things that were going on, and they were like you didn't do anything. It's all good. This was a huge misunderstanding and of course, we're not going to get all excited because you spent some money on shipping or eBay fees on all the equipment that you sold, and at this point I had been sleeping and I had equipment that they were going to throw away.
Speaker 2:Now, yeah, yeah we, we go.
Speaker 1:I go into that detail in my book if anybody wants to go out to in all the all the ins and out of all the nonsense. But regardless, for essentially an entire month you're not going to be separated from your wife and never see her again.
Speaker 2:After all big oopsies, Just come on back. Everything's going to be wonderful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm just trying to set this up so people understand. These attacks didn't just come out of anywhere. No, we were doing our thing and they were doing their thing. You left on the 24th, and then that's where we'll get into all of the fun stuff. So you left on January 24th. The first thing that Scientology did was well, they did try to intercept you when you escaped.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they. They followed me across state lines from California to Nevada and tried to. Well, they intercepted me at the Vegas bus station, so the only reason that failed is because I sat on my purse in the middle of said bus station. I would, I would love to be able to talk to somebody that was there that day other than those people, but see what their, their perspective was on what was happening yeah, so that happened on the 24th and you probably even didn't get to me until the 25th, I think yeah right the 25th even the 26th maybe in the 26th.
Speaker 1:Once she arrives, then they send oh sorry, I skipped one. Ok, so then they write this SP declare suppressive person declare which you should be able to see up on the screen there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, and also the very next day after I escaped is when they called all of my family in Well, hold on OK sure.
Speaker 1:So we haven't done anything. We haven't and we haven't even contacted them since the initial bout where they were trying to get a hold of me and you were getting a hold of me.
Speaker 2:They didn't even know that you'd escaped, because I wasn't. I had had one phone call with my family in between the time from when you escaped to when I escaped, but of course someone was listening to the call and told me ahead of time that I was not allowed to tell my family that you had escaped, which ended up being helpful for me in the end, which you'll learn about in my book, but whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Anyway. So the first attack was them doing this suppressressive person declare and similarly, they pulled in my family and showed them that I had been declared and that you had been declared.
Speaker 2:Yep and told them that they would never be allowed to speak to us again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now that's my suppressive person, claire. That is the actual official order from Scientology, and in here it says that I abandoned, I abandoned my post and left. It says that I escaped and it says that you escaped, okay, which which kind of comes in handy later on. But there's Claire's suppressive person. To Claire and hers was on the 27th of January, so just one day after mine.
Speaker 1:Now our families were shown all these things. We did not know that these, this existed, that these existed, and for months after this Scientology we're still in contact with us, like everything's fine. We just want you to come back. Yeah, but, but they didn't say that they had already told our families that we were declared. No, no, and the only reason that we knew that? Because, even though our families and I'm not going to say who and all that, I don't want to get them in any more trouble we might have already said something, but who knows? Either way, we were in touch with some of our family members and they had told us that we were declared. Yeah, even though we had never been told that and we had never been sent these declare orders.
Speaker 2:In fact, to the contrary, I had emailed Kirsten Catano from OSA about a week after we escaped and I said, hey, we're in Kansas City, not coming back, what do we have to do? Because I still was holding out hope for to somehow be able to keep contact with our families, and so we actually had an email from none other than Greg Wilhair, who was David Miscavige's right hand man at the time, that said nope, it's all on hold. You just have to come back and get interrogated and do all their steps and sign their paperwork and all that. So we and Mark never considered doing that for even one moment, but I did. To be fair again, you know I love my family.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, so that's a good point, because you'll see up on the screen. Now they sent us these freeloader statements. Now Claire's is ninety six thousand. You can see there. That's what they want you to pay them for the courses that you and any Scientology counseling you did. You have to pay for that as one of the step.
Speaker 2:OK, so one of the steps.
Speaker 1:Okay, so one of several steps you also have to redo all of that is another step. Yeah, but regardless, in order for us to talk to our families again, we would have had to pay $96,000 for Claire, and then 67, is that 67? I can't see it. It's too tiny. But um, and now you can see, see claire. Claire did a lot of scientology training and a lot of scientology counseling and from looking at the list of things that they're charging her for, and I did a lot of like audio visual, just basic stuff, and I did very to little. I mean, they literally have of scientology counseling. They have um like forty thousand dollars in the 15 years that I was in the seahorse, and also they have all these intensives of all that was the tom cruise auditing.
Speaker 2:I don't know if they're if no, that was all the interrogations and stuff that they did, it was not because they. The only reason they didn't charge for Tom Cruise's auditing of you is because that was student auditing, meaning he wasn't, he wasn't, he wasn't, he was just training. So you were his guinea pig.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so, regardless, in order for us to see our families again, we would have, after being in the Sea Org for 15 years and just getting out into the real world and getting jobs. Claire, I was fixing computers by the getting paid by the hour. I think I was making around $50 an hour, which was how much I would make in a whole week if we got paid. I was making that much an hour. Claire was working as a server at a pizza restaurant and they wanted us to come up with a hundred and basically $50,000. That would be one of the first steps in order for us to speak with our families again. We also would have to do. There's a whole bunch of steps called the scientology a to e steps. Yeah, um, but regardless. Um, I wasn't having any of it, um and we had, you know, obviously.
Speaker 2:Just we've been being paid if, if we were lucky, 46 a week for 15 years. We had no vehicle, no credit, no savings of any kind. We had just barely escaped, and now they're to. You know the the prospect of having to come up with $150,000 as just one step to ever speak with our families ever again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, guys are psychotic. So I just want I just kind of wanted to set that up as the beginning, because then you can see that we were just basically doing our thing Right and then they were messing with us. Yep, okay. So in 2005, that's when most of this is happening, the back and forth, all this good stuff Sorry, excuse me, in the middle of 2005, the South Park Scientology episode comes out. Yeah, okay, and I watched that whole thing and then I asked Claire is that the real thing? She says yeah, basically. I mean they pronounced feet and wrong, but besides that it's all legit.
Speaker 2:Which is a common mistake.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway, before I forget, I have to tell everybody this I watched a YouTuber. He does like scandals and kind of scams on YouTube. That's kind of what he mainly covers. And I've been watching this guy for years, just here and there. I don't watch every single video, but I've watched a lot of video. He has a candy company and he got scammed and the equipment he was buying for his candy company, all kinds of exciting drama anyway. But I went on YouTube the other day and he did a whole episode about Scientology. Okay, it's a it's a substantial episode on Scientology. But my favorite takeaway he does do a lot of good reporting on Scientology and covering of different things. It's it's also a very kind of like overview of a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But my favorite thing is he calls David Misk. He calls him David Miscavige, okay, and I just love that. I think we just say that from now on it's Miscavige, anyway. So I watched the South Park thing and then I read all of the upper levels of Scientology, the OT levels, the operating fate levels. These are the confidential levels that they make you pay for, and you could pay basically up to a million to $2 million to get all the way to the top and find out about all the. That's where you learn about the space cooties and Xenu, lord Xenu, and all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yep, okay, and I read about those on a website called Zinunet, which was being run by this guy in Norway, andreas Heldlund. Anyway, we'll put links to a bunch of these things in the description. Okay, in January 2006, I start posting on the Internet as blown for good, because I don't want them to know who I am, but I know that they're eventually want them to know who I am, but I know that they're eventually going to figure out who I am. So I try to buy myself a little time and post on the internet for 2000, from basically, um. 2006 is when that starts.
Speaker 2:Yep, and meanwhile, at that time, I'm eight months pregnant with our first son, um, and we've moved back from Kansas City to Los Angeles and we're renting a house there, and yeah, so we're at least on our way to getting our feet on the ground, but certainly not in a position to withstand brutal OSA attacks, which is another huge reason why you were posting anonymously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Now, in addition to us just being gone and not wanting to go back to them, shelly Miscavige's sister, suzette, is living with us. Yeah, okay. So Shelly Miscavige's sister lives in the basically like a guest house at the house that we're renting. She's staying there as well.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:And her father, shelly Miscavige's father, barney Barnett, is working for me as the handyman. When Suzette had him come over to see her one time I talked to him because I talked to Barney throughout the 15 years that I worked at the headquarters, I worked with Shelley Miscavige's other sister, clarice, and so Barney would sometimes call to talk to her and then I would answer the phone and I'd be like oh, hey, barney, what's up? Oh, let me see if I can go find Clarice. Okay, so I actually had spoken to Barney maybe 10 or 15 times over the years, just on the phone, and I'd chat with him while they were trying to find Clarice to talk to him. Okay, so now Suzette is living with us.
Speaker 1:It's 2006. We're living in Burbank, california. Suzette is living with us, Barney is working for me and they have PIs watching our house, but the private investigators they don't know who this old dude is, who's doing my handyman work and he's coming and going all the time. Well, at a certain point I think they're trying to ambush Claire or myself and come and speak to her while Speak to me while she's away, or whatever. It's covered in a lot of the spy files when they were doing this. And if you want to look for that, you can go to our channel and look up the spy files and we go into that in great detail files and we go into that in great detail. Anyway, so when that is happening and they're trying to ambush Claire, some high level operatives from the Office of Special Affairs, scientology's Dirty Tricks Department, they come to the house and for the first time they see this handyman that's being referred to by the PIs. And then Kirsten Catano knows that that's Shelly Miscavige's dad. That's my handyman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to be clear, we didn't know these PIs were coming to the house. They would wait until we were gone and they were just kind of watching who was coming and going and identifying anybody that we were in touch with for the sake of data collection anybody?
Speaker 1:that we were in touch with for the sake of data collection? Yeah, okay. So when they find out that Barney is my handyman, that's when things start to go very crazy, because now and also, by the way, I was talking to Barney he would come over and he would like he painted the house, he fixed the garage, he was doing all kinds of stuff. He painted the house, he fixed the garage, he was doing all kinds of stuff. And the reason I was hiring him is because he was essentially broke and he was not doing well health wise. And for his birthday he's telling me that Dave and Shelly are sending him Scientology lectures for his birthday. They retail value are several thousand dollars and I'm like why don't they just give you the cash? Why are they? They have tons of money. I don't know why they're not just sharing it with you and taking care of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so he was already battling cancer at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he did have cancer, yeah, and he was not really doing what he should have been doing to not keep having cancer. He wasn't. He was kind of just like I got no money, I got no time I'm barely able to support. He had a woman, a former Sea Org member, and her child living with him and he was sort of taking care of them as well as himself. And anyway he comes and tells me that he got pulled in and that he made up this whole elaborate story that I just contacted him and I he was being my handyman. He didn't know who I was.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, remember he cause he came to the front door and he said okay, so listen, I got pulled in by OSA and SecCheck, so I'm just I'm going gonna tell you the story so that we have you know everything aligned so they match he wants to make.
Speaker 1:He's like I gotta go get interrogated.
Speaker 2:Let's make sure the stories and his and his story, which is what we agreed with him, was the best way to go. Was that? Um, so our landlord, who owned that house, was not a scientologist and had nothing to do with Scientology. We agreed with him. Yeah, that guy hired you, not us. You have no idea who the tenants are.
Speaker 1:You're just painting the house for the landlord, which was solid, right, yeah, as much as it could be, but anyway. So when that happens, I am telling him everything that's going on at the base to Barney, so he knows about, well to be fair. So when that happens, I am telling him everything that's going on at the base to Barney, so he knows he knows about, well to be fair. So he had the daughter that was living with us, suzette. He had Shelly Miscavige and then he had Clarice, and all three of his daughters were at the base for years and he didn't have that much contact with them besides on the phone. His youngest daughter had been kicked out of the sea, org yep, for more than a year and he had been calling the international base, scientology base, and they were just telling him we don't know where she is like we just can't get a hold of her, even though she had been kicked off the property and they knew she was in.
Speaker 1:They had sent her to new orleans to do her katrina cleanup yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:And she was a very and they were just taking phone messages from Barney saying oh, we'll give her a message that you called and you hadn't heard from her in. Yeah, I think about a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you guys are seeing anything weird happening on the stream, there's massive body things in our network right now that the Internet company came and they rewired a bunch of stuff, and whether it's worse or better than before they came we don't know. But it says we're good and we can only do what we can do. So if it freezes up once in a while, we're sorry about that. It's nothing we can control and according to our speed tests, we have a very fast internet right now. And it's just there's demons, uh, space cooties in there. Um, okay, back to the story.
Speaker 1:We'll zap them after the stream, folks yeah, we, we, there's nothing we can do. We did as much as we could do before, um, okay. So, um, this during this time in 2006, um, I was also writing magazine articles for us and Life and Style and In Touch and all these different articles and the journalist would basically send me pictures and then I would just identify the people in the pictures and then explain what wire they would be, in whatever locations they took pictures of them, and then they make a cover story out of that locations. They took pictures of them and then they make a cover story out of that. And that was during the tom cruise and katie holmes kind of courtship and making babies and having babies and all that stuff. So, um, okay, and then I'm also posting on the internet yeah okay psychology.
Speaker 1:during that time they have pis watching our house full-time. They had infiltrated Claire's business and my business by either having people that know us report on us or actually setting up fake clients that, like I, would go to a job and do an estimate and then sometime somehow they try to get me into doing the project and then try to sue me or say that we didn't do something right or all this stuff. Additionally, we had a Scientology spy that used to work at the international headquarters. That was not in Scientology and he very heavily encouraged Claire to get into the real estate business and that he could help her get a license and he could help her do this. And she did end up getting her license and she did end up doing some real estate projects with this guy and the reason that they were doing that was so that they could tell they could basically get basically trying to frame me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're basically trying to frame Claire for real estate fraud and then get her which is funny, because when he was the the deal that he was planning to set me up on, I was like you know what I'm? I'm not going to do this, I'm I'm too busy with because now I have you know, our son is born, and so I had a newborn baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I took.
Speaker 2:I had taken the, the California realtor exam um in Fresno when I was born in 2006. Yeah, I took. I had taken the the California realtor exam in Fresno when I was eight months pregnant. I drove up there, took the exam, drove back Anyhow. So I just was like you know what you do, you, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to do this deal with you. And so I did not end up doing any transactions that he was involved in, even though he was very much trying to get me to do a transaction with him. I was like, yeah, no, thanks, I'm good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also we kind of suspected that there's something off with this guy, because he was driving down from Northern California to meet with Claire and like be there for a few hours and then he would drive back to Northern California.
Speaker 2:I particularly knew him very well at all. I knew who he was, but it's not like he was our friend or he just kind of showed up out of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, adam Parcell was his name.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, now, during that time, they also had all of our phone records Yep, all of our phone records, yep. They had. Our phones were either tapped or they had gotten into our Sprint account and had downloaded all of our phone history so that they could reverse engineer who we talked to if they didn't listen in live. They were collecting our trash every week. This is in 2006, a year after we left and I had only been posting on the internet and writing a few cover stories for tabloids.
Speaker 2:Okay, and, to be fair, the only reason you even started posting on the internet in the first place is because there were crazy stories about things and you're like no, no, that's not what happened.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's what I was really trying to correct the record of what was on the internet of like hey, I don't know do with Scientology. They were actually following me to these different projects and then they were sending private investigators to my clients because I was hiring ex-C org members that had escaped from Scientology. I was giving them jobs and trying to help them get back on their feet, and then they would accuse one of those people of stealing computer files or this. And then they'd go to my job sites and say we're investigating this person. We were told he was working here and they'd create a big scene at the site to then try to get my company fired from the project because we're bringing all this drama to them.
Speaker 2:And meanwhile they would constantly send private investigators to our house, process servers to our house, constantly send private investigators to our house, process servers to our house. They had a private investigator who literally every single day, would walk our neighborhood and walk and see who was at our house and and I remember telling you, uh, there's, there's this creepy old dude who walks by our house every day and he had one of those big old transistor radios on his belt and like he's got to be from Scientology. And you were like no, no, it's, he's just an old dude that lives in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know, I was trying not to freak you out, okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway also during that time, I met up and this is like two more, like maybe 2007, 2008. I was meeting up with um. I met up with Jason Begay, who used to be in Scientology. We went to Germany, I want to say in 2008. Yes, 2008,. We went to Germany and we did this conference for this European delegation of, like government law enforcement for many, many European countries. They came to the house and gave me these flyers. We can put this back up now, now that I have this. Oh man, where is it there? It is. Oh, what is going on? They sent this flyer. They gave Claire this flyer. They sent this flyer.
Speaker 2:They gave Claire this flyer and they gave this to the landlord of your business warehouse at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they gave it to us at the airport when Jason and I were leaving LAX to fly to Germany, and they gave me the flyer and I was like, hey, I don't want to disappoint you, but I don't speak or read German, so this is pretty much not very helpful, you're featured on the next page of this.
Speaker 1:Oh, I am, let's see, oh look at that I used to go to the anonymous protests that were happening in the early days of Chanology against Scientology, and they had some pictures of me at those. Anyway, they were relentless in the nonsense.
Speaker 2:They really were.
Speaker 1:And early on, and I think I want to say it was to intimidate us to stop. Like you got to stop this. We're going to go, we're going to, we're going to mess with you. And if you had just left Scientology and you don't really have a life and you don't have any way to make money and everything you, that's a lot of stress and work just to get on your feet, yeah, much less with all this stuff happening everywhere around you on a nonstop basis.
Speaker 1:I mean, there was one time when they followed me with it was at least two or three different private investigators. I went to Jason's house. He lived near the coast in California and I had I was doing a bunch of jobs in like Santa Monica and Venice and those areas and I would go up and see him sometimes or I'd go help him with some stuff and then they would follow. They would be camped outside of his house and then they'd follow me to another client from his house. So it was pretty much nonstop. I think that's the last slide in that thing. Yep, it is all early 2006, 2007, 2008. In 2009, we worked with well, in a bunch of those periods we worked with a woman named Janet Reitman on an article that she was doing for Rolling Stone. Then we also talked to her a lot more after that for a book that she ended up writing called Inside Scientology. We worked with Lawrence Wright when he was writing the book, going clear, yeah, we see, called four corners.
Speaker 2:No, that one was the Australia one.
Speaker 1:Oh, four corners he was Scientology no. It was the John Sweeney.
Speaker 2:Yes, was John Sweeney Exactly, I can't remember the.
Speaker 1:Scientology and right now Scientology and Me I think it was called, yeah, scientology and.
Speaker 2:Me yeah, and then the Louis Thoreau documentary.
Speaker 1:My Scientology Movie. That's right, I did that as well. Yep, that was a little bit later on. Yep, 2010,. Well, and then 2009,. I wrote a book about Scientology called Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology. And then in that same year, in 2009, we actually launched a lawsuit against Scientology for human trafficking, forced abortions, non-payment of wages, labor law violations yeah labor law violations, all this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and then in 2010, claire and I became confidential informants on Scientology for the FBI. We were we. They referred to us, as it's funny, because in Scientology, ci means To as CI1 and CI2, which is confidential informant one and confidential informant two, and there were many other people that were confidential informants, but we just happened to be one and two.
Speaker 2:And between us, we spent probably what.
Speaker 1:Hundreds of hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, five days out there at the LA headquarters. Everything was recorded, documented, like literally basically went through our entire life history, every experience we'd ever had in Scientology. Who was involved? What happened? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:Where things were. They had. They showed us drone, recorded drone footage of the property, multiple, multiple sessions. And we would go through and say they'd say, okay, where, where? So they'd say where are all these people going? Who's this? You could see, you could a lot of people you could recognize, even though this drone is thousands and thousands of feet above the ground. They, you could, you could make out shapes and sizes and people and what the buildings and where they were going. And so we went through a bunch of that stuff with them for many years, I want to say probably two years at least. We would speak to them on a regular basis, if not once a week, once every few weeks, or we'd go to the office and we'd do another interview with them. They would ask us about other people who were out and if they might be willing to speak and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it was during that time that I especially because we had now two young kids I particularly was getting really distraught by the level of intimidation following the private investigators. All of this because I was like, how seriously, what do we have to do to keep our children safe and have our lives back? And at a certain point we were actually researching with the FBI going into their equivalent of witness protection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to try to get out of Scientology, to get out of the attack zone from Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, if you think about it, they had every Scientology, had literally every piece of information about our entire lives. So, like, even just consider security questions for a minute what's your mother's maiden name? Where did you go? Where did you go to school? What road did you live on? In third grade, you know they knew everything. And after about the fifth time of finding out that they had illegally obtained our phone records, it was really really really upsetting and frustrating and everything else. So one of the agents was helping helping me particularly look into like okay, well, what it would look like is you'd get a new social security number and a new name and this and this and this and and I'm like, but then what happens with the, the three years of credit that we've been working so, so hard?
Speaker 2:to build up like we had nothing. And she was like, yeah, that's the downside, that's going to go down the toilet and we're just like we can't do that. Yeah, I had literally already read like four books on how to build credit. I know every nitty gritty detail, down to way more than you would ever want to know, about credit scores.
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway, so then the lawsuit ends in 2012. Colorado right before that, in 2011. And in 2011, they actually videoed us moving, like, while we had a moving truck and we loaded it up and we were driving away, they were driving next to us in cars with cameras out the windows, recording us driving on the 10 freeway going to Colorado and moving trucks and our car and our van and all this stuff. And the funny thing is is on one of the hate websites somebody sent to me, they said they left in the dead of the night and I was like we left in the morning. You were recording us. It was 11 am, it was daytime. What are you talking about? Anyway?
Speaker 1:But regardless of that, when we get to Colorado and the lawsuit ends shortly after that, that's when they start with hate websites and they start a site called who is Mark Headleycom and they just put up the most randomly crazy nonsense stories they can find on there. This whole time I'm talking about there, this main guy, david Miscavige, is beating people up. Um, um, they're not leave. Um, there's people, people committing suicide. There's all of these things that are happening and they're saying I'm licking crackers, I'm putting spiders in people's desk drawers just nonsense.
Speaker 1:And also that I was a terror at six years old. Like my body, thetans were already fully taking over and I was evil at six, even though I was in Scientology my entire life and I worked for them. I was, I was basically had some really, really evil body things and I was a bad person. Okay, that website is still up to this day. Right, that was in 2012,. 13 years later. Is it 13 years? Do I need to do I know math? Yeah, 13 years later, they still have this website up and it's still talking about me licking crackers and being a terror at six.
Speaker 2:And and they have one for me too, but mine just points to yours. I don't have a separate one, it's just a combination of all of our stuff together.
Speaker 1:If you ain't got a site, you ain't doing it.
Speaker 2:I do I do? Isn't this the same as yours?
Speaker 1:Anyway, the other thing is that they post things on Twitter. They've got a Twitter account. I don't know, I think it's called. I can't remember what it's called, but they tweet things out Now more recently. I can't remember what it's called, but they tweet things out. Now, more recently, they've been going wild. They have. They did a Freedom Magazine article when Going Clear came out yes, and they put us on the cover of that.
Speaker 2:Which was the comedy there is that you and I were not in Going.
Speaker 1:Clear, not the movie. No, we were In the movie.
Speaker 2:No, we were in the book. We were in the book and we were also. We were extensively involved in confirming and corroborating and all that worked with the researcher extensively.
Speaker 1:But we're not actually in the movie, but psychology didn't know who was going to be in the movie.
Speaker 2:That's my point. So they just assumed that whoever was in the book was also going to be in the movie and they did the cover based on that, which was wrong?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one of the reasons we even moved to Colorado was because, when we were working in LA, we both have separate businesses. Claire has her own company, I have my own company, and that's what we do to make a living for our family. That's how we support ourselves. Is we both run our own companies.
Speaker 2:And even that, by the way, was an intentional strategy. If we have two separate businesses, that are completely not connected at all. Not only will we be better able to weather the ups and downs of the economy, but also it will be harder for Scientology to destroy both of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the other reason we both had our own companies is because every company that we would work for they either would have engineered the job for us like one of your first jobs, oh my gosh yeah. You were working for a gal that used to be at the base. You were working with her at a company.
Speaker 2:As was Suzette Shelley's sister, and literally I finally figured out OSA was literally calling in the office and getting reports women on, both Suzette and I.
Speaker 1:We knew that we couldn't work for somebody that we didn't know was going to be loyal to us when Scientology came, or that wasn't already. Somebody already there wasn't working for Scientology, reporting on us. And both of the places that we worked when we first got out in, when we moved back to California in 2000, late 2005, there were spies at both of those companies that reported to Scientology daily or weekly. So we knew we had to start our own thing, because Scientology was literally in every single thing that we tried to do. They had somebody in there that was just either trying to sabotage us or reporting up on us. So Scientology could do whatever, just make nonsense. So we had to set up our own companies. And then, even when we set up our own companies in Los Angeles, they were constantly messing with us because we're right in the heart of the Scientology nonsense. They could send somebody to four different clients on the same day and they'd all be different people because they have so many resources in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like just as a as an example of the nonsense that would happen. One time in 2009, Amy Scobie and Matt Pesh came to visit our house in Burbank, California, and we literally ended up with an OSA film crew with like boom sticks and camera and everything else and again in our front yard in our front yard we have two little kids. There are like three and one now. Anyway, really frustrating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok, so we moved to Colorado. When we get to Colorado they also have private investigators watching our house, watching my business and still messing with us. But in Colorado they don't put up with a lot of that nonsense. In California you can get away with stalking, because that's essentially what paparazzi do they're stalkers.
Speaker 2:So if you prosecute, so the rules are less.
Speaker 1:Well, they just don't enforce them. You can follow somebody day and night and harass them and try to take pictures of them, and that's an industry there. Right, that's how they, that's how they stir up drama and news stories to then promote a movie or promote a TV show or whatever they're doing. And so we moved to Colorado. When we moved to Colorado I actually befriended um, a police officer in Castle Rock, and he read my book and then several other people in Castle Rock police. They basically knew, um, if Scientology, if there's something happening, it's most likely going to be Scientology. And very quickly Scientology learned that that was not going to be a viable situation for them in Colorado. So for the most part the private investigator drama kind of died down or whatever they're doing, they're not that obvious.
Speaker 2:It's limited now to just drive by photography yeah. Yeah, and so they can put updates on their hate websites anyway, which is funny because our neighbors will not put up with nonsense on that front.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have a lot of. We have a lot of. We have a lot of support in our neighborhood. Yeah, and pretty much everybody that knows us in our neighborhood knows about the Scientology stuff. So there's not from us, but they found out, yeah, about the Scientology stuff.
Speaker 2:So there's Not from us, but they found out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, anyway. So essentially, from 2005 to now, scientology has constantly been attacking us and trying to sabotage our family, sabotage our businesses, destroy us utterly, destroy us utterly.
Speaker 2:Silence us completely.
Speaker 1:They're sending emails and letters and stuff to my clients and tweeting about stuff and and so recently as april it's non-stop, and I want to say that in the past few years it seems to they just amping up as much as they can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean well, between just talking about Scientology on a regular basis, my testimony in the Danny Masterson trial as an expert witness, the work we do through the Michael J Render Aftermath Foundation, the billboards, you name it I mean there's a long list of we're always. We always have ongoing projects, side projects and guess what Scientology here?
Speaker 1:let's do it, going for the close up here. We've got so much more that we're working on. We have so much stuff that we are working on. Yeah, that's going to be amazing and productive. Yep, there is a lot of we've done. I mean we've done everything. We've done TV shows, we've done articles, we've done YouTube videos, we've gone on other channels. We've done YouTube videos, we've gone on other channels. We've tried to do as many different media, platforms and methods to disseminate the information, the true information on Scientology, and we've done it consistently. So we might not always be on YouTube, but we are doing other things in other mediums. Youtube's not the end-all, be-all. I like YouTube because we have full control over what we do. Claire and I have participated in many shows that are amazing, shows that never see the light of day. They get produced and then, right before they get greenlit to air or go get sold to this streaming service or whatever, scientology sends them a legal letter and then they just hose the whole thing down and never sees the light of day.
Speaker 1:Yeah which is frustrating. It is frustrating, but at the same time, when we do YouTube or when we do X or Facebook, they have no control. So when we do a stream like this, maybe 5,000 people watch it, maybe 10,000 people watch it, and maybe it freezes right in the middle while we're talking. Whatever happens, we have control over it and it can go live and they can't really take it down. So, and and also I do want to make this clear point that this entire time we have had to raise our family. We have three young, we have three boys, and they have been attacking us while we're trying to raise a family and run our businesses. And all this and as a hobby, expose Scientology as our sort of after dinner job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So I just wanted to give you guys, because a lot of people are like why I get these comments, like why are they attacking you so much and why has this been going on for so long? It's because we've been doing this for since 2005,. We basically for 20 years we've been um, we're, we've been doing this work and they are very not appreciative of it.
Speaker 1:And, um, david Miscavige is um, he, he is a a very vindictive person. He really really holds a grudge and he, he, he, really I do believe he believes the scientology policy of destroy them utterly. Yeah, um, and who knows? They, they, I don't know what else they can do, but again, we've been exposing Scientology and the practices and the abuse and they've been telling shit stories about us and just being chaos monkeys in our life and trying to not even say. I don't even think there's anywhere where they're saying this stuff didn't happen. They're just saying these guys are evil, mark and Claire are just evil people. They don't say we don't abuse people, we don't lock people up, we don't take away people's passports, we don't intercept their mail, we, they're not saying any of that. They're actually, to the contrary, they're saying they have admitted in many cases. Yeah, we do all that, but it's because we're a religion and that's our doctrine.
Speaker 2:We're allowed to do that, and let's not forget too, there were a number of years where they were telling people leaving Scientology, you can talk to whoever you want, it doesn't matter if they're declared SP or not, but do not speak to Mark and Claire. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're going to be doing some more videos sort of like this that are coming up. So we're going to be doing some more videos sort of like this that are coming up. We're going to actually be telling the stories of specifics of things that they did. We're going to try to do more stuff like that. We do like doing the lives and answering questions and stuff like that, but we also want to tell this story that. But we also want to tell this story and really so Scientologists, or people that are thinking that are Scientologists, that are thinking of leaving Scientology, can see all the specific things that they're doing and in an effort for them to understand how they should leave or ways they could leave, that maybe would be more productive.
Speaker 1:Obviously, exposing Scientology is going to open you up for attacks from Scientology. That's in their DNA. That's how they I don't know. I just saw the screen went black. Anyway, they are going to mess with us and they're going to mess with you. If you expose them, they're likely going to mess with you. Yeah, how much they mess with you is probably directly proportional to how much you expose them.
Speaker 2:But nonetheless, it's a storm that can be weathered and you whoever wants to speak out against Scientology, please do. You know it was very lonely in the early days, I would say, when we started posting and speaking out. There were not a whole lot of people doing that, but anyway, for everyone who's had the courage to do so, wonderful. Even in our case, like the photo that they sent of Mark factor in, that was from photo that they sent of Mark factor in, that was from what 20, 20 years ago, 20 years ago photo from 20 years ago is all that they have on Mark.
Speaker 1:So you know it is what it is, guys. And also I know, um, I know there's all sorts of other drama that's happening on the internet in all sorts of other factors, not even have to do with Scientology. So to me it's sort of like it is what it is. If you want to know about Scientology, we'll tell you about Scientology. If you want to know about the drama that happens in Scientology, we'll tell you about that, and we'll try to help you, as much as possible, navigate what is going to happen if you leave and certainly what will happen if you expose them. And I wouldn't wish that upon anybody who's first leaving. Yeah, because when you first leave, you've got work to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the focus needs to be on getting back on your feet and recovering from often decades or an entire life of trauma. A lot of steps that one can take to just get to where you know what if you decide to speak out like. Catherine Olson is a wonderful example, and of that, um, we broke her out in June to 2021. And when she first got out, she definitely was not ready to. There was, you know, the the focus was on getting a driver's license teaching. There was, you know, the the focus was on getting a driver's license teaching her to drive. You know, getting a resume, all those really really important life things. Um, anyway, there you go, just as an example.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, I think we get, I think we did.
Speaker 2:I think we covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 1:Um, if you want to go and look at whoismarkedleycom, I don't recommend it, but if you want to, At least use a VPN you know bag up before you get in there.
Speaker 2:Somebody emailed me the other day and they were like you know you can use a VPN. I'm like, I know I can use a VPN, but I'm the intended audience. Why on earth do I want to go watch their nonsense it's all full of lies and it's all full of lies and watch my family members speak shit about me? No, thanks, like it's not. That's not a fun for a Sunday, it's not fun for any day. So if I watch it then then they've accomplished their purpose. So you know, thanks, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, should we do a giveaway?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's do a giveaway. Let me see if I get this worked out. Oh, look at that, it worked perfectly, okay. Um, if you've typed a comment, it says there's 60 entries. I don't know if there's 60 comments, but I'm going to go ahead and draw and uh hopefully our internet challenges have not messed with this, but whatever it is, we're doing it. We're doing it. We're just going to give something away.
Speaker 2:We're going to give. Whoever wins. They can just send me an email, claire, at blownforgoodcom, and tell me what they'd like from either.
Speaker 1:Bina Beck 33.
Speaker 2:Nice, there we go. Congratulations, bina Beck 33. Send me an email with what you would like. We have all kinds of goodies on the BFG merch store and on the sp shopcom.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, so just shoot me an email, awesome, okay, let's go back to oh, oh, what happened? It won't, let me do it there. It is um, okay, um. Do we want to do? Um. Do we want to answer some comments? Yep or we want to read some comments or whatever other questions, because it questions, because it, here we go. Here's one.
Speaker 2:Okay Question you go through so much nonsense for just doing the right thing and exposing Scientology. Have they generally left your kids alone or do they get hassle now too? Hope they don't. Yeah, we've had conversations with our children just to make sure that they understand that, because you know they. We've always kept it age appropriate but to help them understand that we have to keep them safe and so forth. So no, it's been minimal. In fact, when Leah Remini Scientology in the Aftermath show came out the aftermath show came out, conversely we had teachers reaching out to us, multiple teachers saying literally we will protect your children and do whatever. We will call the police if anyone tries any nonsense, which was obviously deeply moving and really meaningful to both of us. So yeah, that's my answer.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:KDD question. If they had stopped you going to your eye appointment, Claire, do you think you would have stayed or found another way to escape? Ps? Love my BFG hoodie. If they had succeeded? So if I hadn't made it to the eye appointment, I would have kept trying, but it would have definitely gotten harder and harder because I had already. They were actually trying to interrogate me the day before going to that eye doctor appointment and I didn't know how long I could hold out on. You know, when they exert their mental pressure, it's gets really, really sticky, to put it mildly. So I would have kept trying. If they, if they, had succeeded in intercepting me in that Las Vegas bus station, they would have, I would have been under lock and key for years. So I um? Is this the period where Mark hides messages in diapers? Trevon, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:So during this time this is a good one actually Um, that was in the early like 2006, 2007 period when we had young children. They were, we knew, I or I didn't know, but I really, really suspected that they were um, were taking our garbage and they were going through the garbage. So I would write random phone numbers on post-it notes and then I would put those in with the dirty diapers that we would throw away. And anyway, I did have some fun. Ok, I'm not. You know, I'm up for a little bit of nonsense too. They don't get to have all the fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mark got a real kick out of when we actually got written confirmation that they were collecting our trash. He thoroughly enjoyed that it was during our son's diaper years, and yeah so there was plenty of poopy diapers that they would have had to search through.
Speaker 1:So yes, oh, thank you, Tricia, for the super chat. We appreciate that. I do want to mention that anything, any super chats or any things that you send to us on the blown for good channel, those support the channel. If you get any of the stuff linked in the videos that we do on our channel for the SP shop the bobble heads and the SP bracelets and fake Navy Davy dolls.
Speaker 2:Don't be Colty these guys over there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those all go to support the aftermath foundation. Um, and then, blown for good books and any blown for good merch branded merch is supports the channel. Um, we have, uh, we have a few more questions. Uh, here we go.
Speaker 2:Okay Comment they say that a person can leave on their free will but at the same time, they would tell people not to talk to you. That is wired altogether. Yeah, everything that scientology says pretty much, especially when it comes to leaving freely, is complete garbage and anyone in in scientology currently, past, future will agree with that. You cannot just leave. I think Mike Rinder said it best the difference between a cult and a religion is what happens when you try to leave.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, and they also. I think that person meant to type weird, not wired, but anyway.
Speaker 2:Weird. Exactly At what point did each of you stop believing in the belief system of Scientology? Was it long before you left, or did you only start deconstructing it afterwards? You? Want to answer that first.
Speaker 1:I mean I, when I I don't think I think before I left I was sort of I kind of realized that. I was sort of I kind of realized that, um, I think I realized that it was a uh a uh a scam because they were being lied to at the base. And then when I realized that everybody was being lied to all Sea Org members, all staff members, all Scientologists, I think when I realized that everyone was being lied to, that's when I was sort of like I don't even care if it's real, if it's fake. I didn't know about the space aliens when I was in Scientology. But when we left and then I watched the South Park episode and I read all the upper level materials and all that, then I 100% knew, oh, this is just basically a money making scam. And then and Claire, I don't, I mean you were trying to get back in touch with your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my answer to that is I was born into Scientology. My mother joined the C organization when I was four years old, so I felt what my entire life controlled and leveraged into that system and honestly held hostage my love for my family, my love for Mark and knowing that. So the environment we lived was not conducive to critical thinking. It was pretty much the antithesis. You couldn't question your belief because it came at such great risk to do so. So the way that I've looked at it is the moment Scientology became something I could consider. Do I want to believe this or not? I chose not to, and that was the moment I escaped. And from that point forward, yes, the the path to deconstructing all of that has been um a long one.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Okay, I think we'll do a last few questions and then we'll perfect.
Speaker 2:And Mark just listen to your book on audible. Thank you for sharing your experience with us. You are both an inspiration. Claire, I strive for your poise and persistence.
Speaker 1:Wow, thank you, thank you, that's very nice I appreciate that Glad you enjoyed the book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did when we did the audible Our bedroom.
Speaker 1:I just set up a little desk in our bedroom and set up a computer. It was the only place in the house that was really quiet during the day. Yeah, and I just cranked it out and it was the first time. I think I've mentioned this before, but I think it was the first time I actually read the finished book. Yes, cover to cover, because I did all the.
Speaker 2:I worked with the editor and the proof, proofreading and the front and back matter and all that yeah.
Speaker 1:If you guys want, if you want us to do a book, a video on how we made the book and how the book got produced, Let us know. Bleep, bloop that in the comments down there and maybe we'll do a video on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the making of Blown for Good behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology. We've talked about it extensively on other channels, but we've never done it on this channel Our stories about, because there were so many crazy things that happened during that time too, like leading up to the release of the book and then shipping the books and anyway, whatever. There's a lot we could talk about there if anyone's interested in listening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like Rebecca B did a good comment here.
Speaker 2:Geez, if Mark had just gone back to the Scientology when kindly asked, the planet might've been clear by now.
Speaker 1:Sorry, about that, guys, I was not on that bandwagon Hell no.
Speaker 1:Okay, guys, we appreciate you guys tuning in and watching. Now that I'm back from my trip and I haven't left for another trip, we might squeeze in a few more videos in the next week or two or month or whatever. And we do have a bunch of other videos coming out on a bunch of other channels that we've done stuff with, not even really Scientology related, just other channels. We're trying to reach out to other channels and other people and other areas of the interwebs.
Speaker 2:Yeah and sorry. I just wanted to mention for anyone who listens to these shows on our podcast platform we just hit 750,000 downloads. Yay, so thank you.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good for a podcast. I mean, people tell me that is good. I mean I don't know. You know 750,000 downloads of the podcast. A lot of not every video that we've done on YouTube is a podcast. But a lot of the videos that we have done have proved to be very popular on on Audible or not Audible Audible is where the book, but on Spotify and Apple podcast I think Apple podcast is the biggest um channel of podcasts, but pretty much anywhere where you get your podcast you can, you can pull up the blunt for good uh podcast and um, yeah, I think that's good. I think, um, uh, hopefully people uh enjoy the videos that we're doing.
Speaker 1:We don't really make a lot of money off of the YouTube channel. I want to say it to me. If it pays for itself and it doesn't cost us money, then I think that's worthwhile and so far I think that's pretty much been the case. We've got somebody doing shorts. We hope you guys like the shorts. That's another thing. Bleep, bloop it down below If you think we should make the shorts another channel. I have seen some people complain they get a ton of notifications because we're putting out a few shorts every day and they don't want to watch those. But then we get a lot of comments that people love the shorts because they don't want to watch an hour video, right, but they love watching the shorts. So bleep, bloop it. That's the only way we can know Give us some input.
Speaker 1:Give us some input. Thank you, we appreciate everybody watching and commenting and all that good stuff. And if you, if you did do a comment in the chat I liked, on all the places you can go find stuff I put up. I like to put up comments in there because it's fun, it's a fun thing to do. I like to do that, cool, anyway guys, you want.
Speaker 1:Yes, thanks for joining us, until next time. Bye, thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have hail Xenu Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts, and if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.
