Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Hollywood Dreams and Celebrity Center Schemes - Scientology Stories #55 with Joy Villa
Joy Villa shares her harrowing journey from growing up in a Christian household to spending a decade in Scientology before finding her way to freedom through faith. Her story reveals how vulnerabilities from childhood trauma and artistic ambitions made her susceptible to Scientology's recruitment at Celebrity Center.
• Raised Christian with a minister father and gospel singer mother who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia
• Experienced sexual abuse between ages 3-5 and significant trauma when her mother kidnapped her at age 8
• Moved to Hollywood at 22 to pursue artistic dreams but encountered exploitation and abuse
• Recruited at Celebrity Center International through promises of spiritual technology and community
• Joined the Sea Organization but left after a month due to her psychiatric history
• Married a wealthy Scientologist and donated over $1 million to the organization
• Experienced fame after wearing a Trump dress at the Grammy Awards while doing Scientology's "Superpower" rundown
• Endured increasingly controlling behavior when she attempted to maintain her Christian faith
• Reached breaking point during COVID-19 while training at Saint Hill Manor in England
• Found freedom through prayer when Scientology offered no help for her depression
• Released her book "From Scientology to Christ: The Escape They Never Wanted Me to Make"
If you're struggling with similar issues or know someone trapped in a high-control group, reach out for support. Freedom is possible.
An article about Joy leaving:
https://libertyaffair.com/2025/06/06/exclusive-i-wasnt-just-in-a-cult-scientology-bewitched-me/
Pre-Order Joy's Book:
https://a.co/d/deExAE2
BFG Store - http://blownforgood-shop.fourthwall.com/
Blown For Good on Audible - https://www.amazon.com/Blown-for-Good-Marc-Headley-audiobook/dp/B07GC6ZKGQ/ref=tmm_aud_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Blown For Good Website: http://blownforgood.com/
PODCAST INFO:
Podcast website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2131160
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blown-for-good-behind-the-iron-curtain-of-scientology/id1671284503
RSS: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2131160.rss
YOUTUBE PLAYLISTS:
Spy Files Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWtJfniWLwq4cA-e...
and welcome back to the channel blown for good scientology exposed. I'm your host for today, claire headley, and I am joined by my wonderful guest, joy Joy Vila. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Joy, it's good to be here. Claire, it's so nice to meet you in person.
Speaker 1:So nice to meet you too. Hopefully one day it will be really in person, but in the meantime most things are virtual these days. So it's just a pleasure to have you on and I'm very much looking forward to our conversation today.
Speaker 2:As I told you, I'm very much looking forward to our conversation today. As I told you, me too this is exciting. It's going to be always good to get a chance to share the story with someone who's lived it, even in such an incredible way, and survived it. So you know, I'm speaking to someone who understands, which it's always nice to have that understanding.
Speaker 1:Yes, I absolutely agree with you. I think knowing there's a community of support is incredibly important for anyone, but especially when you're getting out of a high control course of organization like Scientology. So again, thank you for being here. I'm so glad you're out.
Speaker 2:Me too. Thank you, jesus, I am out. I never thought I would leave Scientology. I never thought it would be a place that I would want to leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I figured, if you're good with it, I would love to hear how you got in. I think part of what makes your story unique, at least from my perspective, is that you grew up Christian, correct? Yes, that's right, yes, and so obviously most people know Scientology presents as accepting people of all religions, and I'd love to really dig in to that with you from your perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought it was. So. I grew up Christian. My dad was a minister and a non-denominational Christian minister, my mom a gospel singer. Lots of art, lots of trauma in our family. My mom was diagnosed paranoid, schizophrenic and for people who don't know, that is at least it was back then the highest on the list until you become somebody who hurts others or hurts themselves. So yeah, and she was in and out of mental hospitals institutions. You know, I spent my eighth birthday in a foster home because my mom had kidnapped me and my little sister at the time because she heard voices and it would tell her that my dad is the enemy. So she'd take off and my dad had to call the police on her because kidnapping so quite traumatic at eight. And then she'd come back home and we just pretend like it didn't happen, you know so real extreme, yeah, and we, we.
Speaker 2:I thank God that I had Jesus in my life during these moments, because I did have a church, I did have ministry around me, I did have understanding that there's a community there and that this isn't my mom. This is something that's happening to her, that she's struggling with and she would say that. So she was lucid when she was lucid. She unfortunately died at the young age of 50. Thank you, and it really set me off the deep end when I lost my mom because I thought I was going to help her more. You know, I put it on my heart. I said I'm going to help her. I'm going to be a famous actress and singer, I'm going to make a living and buy a big house and move my family. And you know, I had these big dreams and backtracking a little bit when I was three. I got sexually abused by a family, friend, and it continued until.
Speaker 2:I was five.
Speaker 2:So there was a lot of setup for trauma and I just Claire, I just knew I wanted to be an artist, more than anything, I wanted to make it. And I wanted to get out there and move to Hollywood, cause I grew up in Santa Barbara, I was born in Orange County and then Santa Barbara, california, so Southern California, just a few hours from LA, and we moved to Burbank, which is 20 minutes, 15 minutes over, you know, to Hollywood. So, and that's when things started to get a little bit crazier for me, when I lost my mom, I kind of felt like, well, what's the point? You know, I got into like the sex, drugs, rock and roll, hollywood, you know, 2009, 2010. It was this big, like Marilyn Manson, every goth stuff, and I got into a lot of that. And it's the self-expression. I love the creative expression. I would be singing, I'd be dancing. I got with an acting agency that started trafficking me to sleep with people for money for so it was just like hit after hit, and I thank God that I always had the smile on my face because I wouldn't talk about these things, and through that I mean I also had an abusive relationship. So I said, okay, I'm going to make this, no matter what I'm going to get out of this life, that I'm in the struggle, because I know I'm meant for greater things. I know I'm meant to create and push through.
Speaker 2:And so Scientology found me at that point where I didn't have any sort of counseling. I'd sort of I had moved away from my Christian faith. I still would say I'm a Christian, but I wasn't going to church, I wasn't being ministered to, I wasn't seeking God daily, I wasn't doing the things that I needed to do to, to, to fulfill myself spiritually. So when the spiritual technology presented itself to help me with practical tools, which I thought, man, I've had so much of this happen. And this personality test is showing me that the traumas are not like I can get rid of them, they're not permanent.
Speaker 2:And this was at Celebrity Center International. And I actually came into the Celebrity Center because I had booked a modeling gig. So I was modeling, singing, dancing you're trying to booking all these things and I'd gotten away from the agency that had trafficked me. Thank God, I was only with them for a year and now I was just like beat up, tore up from the floor up Like what is going on. Is this what Hollywood is.
Speaker 2:I'm 22 years old and I'm already like right and Scientology looks so good, it's so clean, and the celebrity center castle, which was just I mean celebrities I'm like this is this is what I came to LA for, this is how I want to be treated, and they loved me. They loved me. They said, oh, we love it. We need Scientologists like you. You're black, you're Latina, you're an artist. You know, you've got it, you've got what it takes. They told me every single thing I wanted to hear Right Classes there, and you know, you know. Clear body, clear mind seminars. I was like, oh, I'm into health, I'm into nutrition, this is so wow. These people are smiling, they look clean, they look happy.
Speaker 2:I was really deceived hook, line and sinker in the beginning, because why would I doubt this? I trusted them, you know. I told them my whole life story and I was looking for someone to be my family. I'd lost so much at that point, right, and they presented such a great promise of freedom and and and artistic integrity. And we're going to get you booked on shows. I they told me straight up the Sear member. He told me straight up I'm going to be your new family. Consider me, uncle Eric.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. And so let me ask you had you heard of Scientology before this Like? Did you have any?
Speaker 2:trepidations going in or what did that look like for you? So this is why I speak so much about it and I need for people of all different beliefs and backgrounds, but especially Christians, because Christians, you know, when I was raised as a Christian, I was like, oh, scientology, that's just another whatever. It's a cult, but, like all other beliefs are cults, like you know, it's like Muslim or whatever, like okay, I respect them, but it's not for me. I don't think that it is what it is. So I had zero education on what it is. I never seen the South Park episodes. You know, this is. This is 17 years ago now.
Speaker 2:For 15 years we didn't have the internet like we do now. I mean, you could Google things, but it was like a bunch of kind of Reddit pages, cause I remember I Googled it when I came in and there was a few ex Scientologists, but it wasn't. Youtube was. I don't even know if YouTube was a thing yet or if it was, it was a bunch of memes and, you know, random stuff there. It wasn't an organized online expose of Scientology. So I was completely sheltered from that and I really was hurting. So when they told me all the good things, they did say well, have you heard? You know they? They tried to pull the black PR, as you know you're trained to do. Okay, well, what have you heard about Scientology? The only bad thing I had heard about it, Claire, was that it was a religion started on a bet that L Ron Hubbard had, apparently, with CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien, and they said who can make a religion? Now I don't even know if that's true. Did that actually happen? That's what I heard.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard that one before. I have heard Hubbard said if you want to make a million dollars, start a religion. That one is more well known. I'll have to. I'll take a look and let you know if I find anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always recommend I don't writer, and had he made that bet with other fantasy fiction writers? Yeah so that was negative obviously and I so I thought, okay, and and I did hear that, you know he, I heard that quote that you said now I've heard that later that if you want to start, you want to make a million dollardollar star religion, right.
Speaker 1:Right. Another thing Hubbard said is that religion was an implant on the whole track. Of course that's referring to programming in our millions of years of lives, allegedly that was designed to control people yeah right, Whatever.
Speaker 2:They just keep adding zeros just to make it make sense. Yeah right, whatever, they just keep adding zeros just to make it make sense. Like ah, damn it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know. I always tell people you can't insert too much logic, you just have to go for the big picture.
Speaker 2:Quadrillions. Did you ever look at the Dianetic Lifetime page? Because you were a class five auditor too right.
Speaker 1:You were yes, class four. You were class four. I was class four, but you know, whatever I've, I've studied 10 uh. When I testified as an expert witness in the danny masterson trial, I calculated how many hours of scientology I'd studied and it was far in excess of 10 000.
Speaker 2:So therefore you know hours you're you're a master at it that it takes 10,000 hours to be a master.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it takes equal amount of time to recover from all that, especially for me.
Speaker 2:I was born into it, so that's unbelievable and, yeah, you've done your advocacy and exposing is so needed. It's so good Because, of course, when I, when I came out, I saw all your interviews and the writings and if it wasn't for you guys like I might've not stayed out because there was this time where I'm out, but it's very recent and I'm still vulnerable and I'm still part of me. The programming is like well, wait, those are your friends. It was good with men. You've invested so much and don't you want this to be real? So there's this real two minds to it, where you're flip flopping and the only thing I can imagine is it's like Stockholm syndrome, too, where people miss their kidnapper, they miss their abuser. You almost because you're like, well wait, it can't. It doesn't make sense that you were a victim of a cult, so them of a cult. So I was. I was consuming all your content, your interviews and many other ex Scientologists and I just kept going. They can't all be wrong about this.
Speaker 1:Right? No, absolutely. I've heard a psychologist also compare it to the sunk cost trap. You know, you've poured so much of your life and money and and emotions and friendships and relationships into an organization and it really does take, on an individual level, waking up and really facing the facts, at least from my perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. It's a process, isn't it? Yeah, how long did it take you once you left, when you guys escaped dramatically and literally escaped from the base? How long did it take you to just heal through it, like where you were, like okay, I was in a cult.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, I've always told people because I was born into it. My mother joined the C organization at St Hill in the UK when I was, when I was four years old. So it was never a choice for me, ever, not even remotely. So I've always expressed it as the moment it became a choice. When I escaped, I decided that's it. But still I had an extensive road to recovery because even just peeling back the language, which I'm sure we'll get into, you know the language again.
Speaker 1:From my perspective, once, when you learn that from as even before I learned English, the English language, I was learning the language of Scientology, and so all the words that and the language and the semantics actually create it, so that you're doing the work for them. By the time it's all said and done, like. Even just think about the word blow blown, you know, like this channel, blown for good. It means that if you depart, you're a bad person, right, yeah, yeah, you're blown, yeah. Which means that if you depart, you're a bad person, right, yeah, yeah, you're blown, yeah, right. Which means that you've committed crimes and you have things you don't want known and you know and therefore you have work to do, you know get back.
Speaker 2:I always thought wait is if every if a blow is always is. The technical term was an unauthorized leaving right.
Speaker 1:Of a blow. Yes, but then what about a?
Speaker 2:divorce or departure, what? Every divorce is a blow, and I remember going. This doesn't make sense. I mean, every person that's divorced, they've blown and then at some point it has to be authorized. Every person that leaves a job. Did you blow Like it's? It doesn't. It does when you dissect it and use Scientology against Scientology against their own. It doesn't make sense. Like you said, put your own mind. Quadrillions of years, quadrillions of years, quadrillions of years, right, all those right. It's like for people who don't know, that's a drill where you have to find a timeline, a spot on your on your time track where something happened and you drill it, and you have to find a timeline, a spot on your time track where something happened and you drill it and you have to go up at the end. Trillions of years, quadrillions of years, right. I mean all of this craziness. I go, I go. Are you an?
Speaker 1:ashtray Down to the inflection of the question. You're right, because, coming from England, people in England, at least where I grew up don't go up at the end of a question. Yeah, it's so funny. It's like who are you? I can't even do it anymore. I've so converted to-.
Speaker 2:You converted so much American Hasn't Whittle been witnessed Right, exactly?
Speaker 1:Apples. There's even a diagram in the Hubbard reference, the Hubbard writing about that, showing the go up at the end.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh and it's drilled. You are forced to do it. When I did the training, 12 hours a day at St Hill, I was at St Hill for two years, 12 hours a day, six days a week. Every day, the org was open. I was there. They closed one day of the week when I was there. They closed one day of the week when I was there.
Speaker 2:And I was in that bubble during COVID and the drills upon drills, upon drills, where you have to have that inflection, and all of the sessions that you, as an auditor, as a trained counselor in Scientology, as a minister right, high priestess of Scientology you have to deliver this and you have to get it perfect and you have to rewatch your videos and you get flunk, flunk and you have to drill, drill, drill. I had so many breakdowns in those course rooms, in that course room down there just trying to get it right. Um, just feeling like what is wrong with me, and probably the fact that I was literally living off Red Bulls Kept you going. Exactly, there might have been a wrong thing about that, right. And they're just like Are you questionable? Yeah, totally. Yeah, let's go. You don't have to be sessionable to be an auditor. The PC has to be sessionable. I don't care about you.
Speaker 1:Right For sure. So going back to your first days in you, so you were brought in through Celebrity Center. Yes, did your family raise any concerns? I'm curious.
Speaker 2:Well, my dad knew I was a Scientologist. At a certain point I was actually. I actually joined staff because I couldn't afford the services. And so I joined staff at Sherman Oaks Mission in a two and a half year contract and they told me you know you're, you can do your purif and everything if you do enough hours. So I started doing that and I was hiding the fact that I was a Scientologist or doing Scientology. Took me about a couple months to say, okay, well, I guess I am a Scientologist. I'm like well. Someone said, well, are you a Scientologist? I said well, what does that mean? They're like well, are you.
Speaker 2:And I said, oh okay, I guess I am one, because it switched over from I'm just exploring this to like oh, I guess I am a member of the group, and they encouraged and pushed me towards that. And that's when I joined staff and my dad received the letters and all the stuff in the mail, because I was living with my dad at the time and he's like I finally said. I said, dad, I'm a Scientologist, I'm doing Scientology, and I was scared that he was going to throw me out or be angry and upset, and instead he was actually very kind and he said I knew that, I saw the mailings. And then he made a joke. You know, joking and degrading. He was like Tom Cruise. Tell him. I said hi, go clear. My dad was funny, my dad was really funny but he wasn't.
Speaker 1:He wasn't opposed, but he, he knew he was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think my dad felt guilty of all the things that had happened to us in our childhood and with what he was dealing with. And my sister had moved back in the house and she was dealing with her stuff and you know we had this fallout and my dad trusted me and he was my best friend, my best friend. That's why I have daddy's girl tattooed on me with the tiger and you know he, he was always there for me and I, I know he prayed for me to get out, but part of him must've felt like she'll get out when, when it's meant to be. And he did the right thing. Because had he said you have to leave Scientology, that's not good. He actually said he knew Scientologists in the seventies. He said, oh, they did a lot of. They did a lot of good works. He said so he knew them from the PR campaigns in the 70s.
Speaker 2:I know my dad, looking at it now, didn't approve of it, but he didn't want to shun me had he done that and said, oh no, no child of mine is a Scientologist. That's satanic. It just would have pushed me deeper in, right, because now I'm like, oh well, he's being an SP about it and I was completely already manipulated at that point. I mean, it only took a couple of weeks for me to so go deep into it and by the third month, because I was just, I was a sponge. I was looking for something to fill me up and heal me at the time, and I was also.
Speaker 2:They just had so many things going on, so many events and open mic nights, and I was able to sing. You know, they were like come sing and here's another fashion show, and so I was able to feel like it's a community center. That's the special thing about the celebrity center they trap artists with such a deceptive aesthetic appeal. And then also and this is a place for you to be creative, you know, sit in the office for a while and, just you know, soak up the atmosphere and there's, there's beautiful manicured lawns, in the middle of a of a dirty crackhead area in Hollywood, there's this gorgeous French castle with with fountains and marble interiors and a little cafe, and you can sip your $25 green juice and feel like one of the elites of Hollywood. You know, yeah, like well, I'm special and that's what I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right, the glossy facade is very much how they tend to lure people into thinking. Hey, I mean, that's their whole strategy. Right, it is, it is, and so, yeah, go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2:I stayed on staff for a while and then I got recruited into the Sea Org. Wow, I didn't know that part I know I was only on the EPF though. So you know, for people who don't know, I say Sea Org for one month, but technically I wasn't fully in the C org, I wasn't posted. I did the EPF for one month.
Speaker 1:But that means you had signed a billion year contract. How did they approach that with you? I'm and again I'm curious because I escaped in 2005. So you got in after I was already speaking out.
Speaker 2:I wish I would have been able to see yeah, you, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I was living in Burbank at the time, no less.
Speaker 2:No way, that's crazy Because. I got in in 2011.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so 2011, mid 2011,. We moved to Colorado, but my, my two older boys were both born at in Burbank. So wow, that is crazy.
Speaker 2:And my husband now was born in Burbank and I we were living. We grew up. I grew up in Burbank After we moved. When we moved to LA, we lived in Burbank. My dad's house was in Burbank, so we were neighbors.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:You could have passed by and seen each other and not known.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I could have been like hey, Joy, don't think about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't go there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's funny and also Small World. My stepfather was the ED of the Beverly Hills Mission, so he was like the CEO of the Beverly Hills Mission but also worked extensively with the sherman oaks mission. Oh my god, who is your stepdad?
Speaker 2:his name is hugh witt, hugh witt, I did not know him, I did not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's he's still in. Uh goes without saying. I mean it. I guess it doesn't go without saying, but my entire family is still in. Yeah, I'm so sorry. That's okay. You know what it's everything happens for a reason. I would have been, I would I wouldn't be here today if I, if I hadn't escaped. So I made my choices and I'm that's. You know, you, you do what you have to do to be at peace with yourself. A bit of a side story, but my husband does audio visual for museums and back in 2010, he did a Ray Charles Museum in LA and as part of one of the exhibits, there was a video from BB King and he talked about how Ray would always say that at the end of the day, when you lay your head down on the pillow, the person you have to be at peace with is yourself, and that really, I mean it's. You know that was 15 years ago. It stuck with me so hardcore.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:That's really true.
Speaker 2:So so, going back to, so you're getting in, so, okay, billion year contract. How did they approach you on that and what was your thoughts, feelings, what was that like them every step of the way? I was challenging them. I was I would say that's a red flag. I was not. I was like, oh, this is a chance I can be with all my friends because I love the Sea Org. I felt like they understood me, I would, they would talk to me and they would be smiling and friendly.
Speaker 2:And there was very young people like me who seem like executives, seem like bosses, and the men and the women and I admire them and I thought, whoa. And when they said you know, they basically wanted me to. They said we want you to work here. That's what they told me at celebrity center. They said we, you know, joy, we want you to work here. I was like you guys want me to work here in this beautiful place. And, yeah, it wasn't that hard for me to go. Well, what does that mean? How do I work there? And they put me in a room, they put the contract out and you know how they do they close the door and they hard sell you on that idea. And they are so good Recruiters, are so good at finding your ruin, your weak points and exposing them.
Speaker 2:And I wanted family. I had a button on the third dynamic. I wanted the group, I wanted a family. I wanted my my people, who are my people. I'd lost my mom.
Speaker 2:I only had my dad left and extended family that were far out of the state, and it wasn't really real to me at the time to travel or go. It was just like I have to. I don't really. I didn't have a lot of money and you know, I had my adopted older brother. I used to sleep on his couch a lot, and so I I kind of was like in this situation where I thought, well, I don't really have much of a life anyways, what a great thing to save the planet and to do great things.
Speaker 2:And they told me you can be a Christian. And so and they oh my gosh, they fast track that so quick when I signed it and they were like just sign it, we'll make it work out. And then I said I have to ask my dad. And they're like no, you're an adult, you're over 18. You're fine, you're fine. And it was within 24 hours. Hours, I was in pack base and I was in the EPF and I was there with the bunk beds six girls and you know your three t-shirts, that you are your shirt, your undershirts and your shirts. You know the whole uniforms and I was like, oh my gosh, and I, and I thought, I really felt at the time that I was a part of something magical and momentous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, for anyone listening, epf, of course, is Estates Project Force, which is really I would describe it as a very grueling program to immediately train you on your perspective as a member of the Sea Organization and to where you get to prove that you're fit to be in the Sea Organization. So Joy, what went wrong?
Speaker 2:I know how come I well, it became really bad really fast. It was grueling, it was actually torture and it was physical labor hours and hours every day and then you have a few hours of course room and the faster you completed your course time, the faster you could get through the APF. Now I've always been very book smart and you know learning to clear my words. I mean, I was a brand new Scientologist and in Scientology you have all of these protocols on how to operate, how to read, how to do things. I think at that point I'd only done two life improvement courses. Did those come out? Wow? So you were really really brand new. Oh, I was raw. Maybe I'd done my Purif, but it was like the first time Purif.
Speaker 2:So Scientology went through GATT too, right, golden Age of Technology too, and they had this whole thing where everything before kind of didn't count and you have to redo it. So they so and they said well, cause we were fast tracking people too much, you got to redo it. And of course you don't get credit, you got to pay it again and now let's take more and do more. So I was. This was before that.
Speaker 1:Despite the fact, by the way, that Hubbard says you can never do a major action over again, right I?
Speaker 2:forgot that he said that he did what dumb.
Speaker 1:If you've reached the end phenomena, you can't redo it. Oh, but unless.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're right, that must have been David Miscavige's money. Grab let's just make everybody redo their bridge. It's SPs. They're everywhere. They invaded it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the redo of the purification rundown had started at the base even before I escaped. Executives there, like Amy Scobie and others, were being made to redo the purification rundown because allegedly even though, like in Amy's's case, she was brought in as a young child, um, she hadn't done it enough and she hadn't reached the m phenomena. Anyway, that's a oh it's.
Speaker 2:There's so many rabbit holes we could go down there is exactly, it's so, it's, it's, it's insanity. And when you look at it it's such a complex insanity and it's a bewitchment. And the roots of Scientology are witchcraft. L Ron Hubbard studied witchcraft. He used all of that. He repackaged it. He studied hypnotism. He repackaged it.
Speaker 2:So all of this stuff that they tell you Scientology when you're in Scientology, it's not to make the able more able, to make you more free, to make you more aware. No, we're making you program, we're making you less aware. And in the EPF it was so. It was so confusing to me because I that's when it really started for me to feel like I'm not good enough. Somehow I can't hack this and I would have breakdowns. I'd be the happiest, I'd be singing, because you're broken up into groups and you have your group C group. You know C, c, c unit, and I used to always joke with my unit Cause we'd have to you get completions, you have to wash a thousand dishes Right and you're there with like I'm there with like six other people that are 18.
Speaker 2:There was underage people. There was old people like whoever ragtag people that are 18. There's underage people. There's old people like whoever ragtag people that they recruited that month or whatever. People would come in. One guy, he got this huge eye infection and he had to leave. Like people would drop like flies and they would go off because it's so rough and they really do want the strongest to survive. As you know, they want like people who are so dedicated. And they told us we're going to be the first ideal C org because we're pushing ideal orgs and this is the ideal C orgs 2011.
Speaker 2:And I have some psych history, so I had been in a psychiatric ward for three weeks and they knew about it and that was something that came up and they said, okay, well, we can't get this fully approved. You need to be on some sort of program before you're able to go. Come back. And I talked to Scientologists when I was in Scientology and they're like, oh, you never saw a fit board or it right now and you have to be out. You can't join the Sea Org. And that broke my heart Because, as bad as it was in there as mentally torturous and taxing, I thought I was going to get through boot camp to get the fun part.
Speaker 2:I'm part of my group and it's amazing and you get food made for you and you get all your accommodations. They make it almost like they sold it as this spiritual. You work hard, but it's almost like it felt like a spiritual vacation in a way, because they pushed it on me like you're not going to have troubles, you don't have to pay rent, you don't have to pay this, you don't have to worry about SPs outside, you don't have to worry about troubles. So you're going to be in this nirvana with people who think like you and you're going to work hard, but you're going to love it because you're you're working for Commodore. They really sold it, which obviously people hearing who've never been in are like that's a cult joy.
Speaker 1:Right For sure.
Speaker 2:And did they include as well that you would be going up the bridge and, yes, free and all that absolutely apps. Everything's provided for you. You get to have spiritual freedom and and because I asked a lot of questions and then I was like, oh, I can't leave. And they're like, well, if you did, it'd be like saying a huge f? You to all your friends. You wouldn't want to do that and they knew that that would get. I was like, oh, I wouldn't want to do that and they knew that that would get. I was like, oh, I don't want to be, I want to be a good girl, I want to be part of this cool club and you know, at this, at this time.
Speaker 2:So I was a month in and I left and I was crying and I was so sad and I had my guitar with me. I play guitar and I just felt like a total reject. And they said, well, we're going to give you another program so you can come back in. And then I went to back on staff. I went back on staff and I was just like, all right, I'll go back on staff. I'm technically not X year. I had no bill for those courses. Thank God I didn't have it and it was just kind of like I was forgotten about. And then I said you know what? I'm going to be such a successful actress and artist. I'm going to make everybody in Scientology proud and I'm going to make myself proud and I'm going to make an impact on this life. I'm going to be just such a good artist. And they also were like oh, you don't have to be in the CR, you can still support us and financially, you can donate. You can? You know they? And they gave me this song and dance.
Speaker 2:And then I ended up meeting somebody who was a very rich and successful Scientologist I was a year in at this point and he, I met him in celebrity center and and I started I kind of started started falling off from Scientology a little bit. I was doing it, but then I started going okay, well, I'm not in this year, I'm going to do auditions and I'm going to. You know, get out there and hustle. And then they kept pulling me back and they were like we want you to meet this guy. Well, I had met him online, but they, I met him, I'd met him at Celebrity Center and then he had became a follower on my Facebook.
Speaker 2:And then we had we had talked cause he's a photographer and I was modeling and and so he's like, oh, I want to give you a photo shoot. And then he met me back in Los Angeles and the staff members were like this is a good one, you should get with this guy. And so they kind of they kind of pushed me and I and I trusted them and I ended up being married to this man. We got married and we were together for seven years and I he was 21 years older than me. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Already in Scientology for 27 years from Denmark and was a patron $50,000 in with the IAS right International.
Speaker 1:He was deep in.
Speaker 2:He was, was deep in and I'm sure he wanted a beautiful young wife and so they do do that kind of pairing in there. Yeah, and of course I wanted who wouldn't want a rich, handsome husband? Okay, and and I was sort of and I know at that point because of where I was going and I look at it and I I said God, everything I thought I could get with him and Scientology I would have figured out. Probably almost definitely, had I not married a Scientologist, I would have left within that first year, because 90% of people find Scientology leave within the first year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for sure no, absolutely and had cracks for you, I'm curious if cracks had had started forming, and if so, what were those and what did it look like? And at some point, was that, did your Christianity come into conflict?
Speaker 2:Yes. Well, when I was in the EPF, I would pray before my meals and they asked me who are you praying to? And I was like what do you mean? I'm praying to God? And they were just like okay, and I started to see it was it. It was different in the EPF. Like it's like we own you, you're going to do what we say. Right, that was. That was a red flag for me. That was like, oh, this is doesn't feel like what they promised, yeah. And then when I was out and I was on staff and then it just started, it became where I said, well, maybe it's pack base, there's something wrong with that base.
Speaker 2:They don't understand me as an artist, because celebrity centers got my back, they know, with all my wild colors and my, my random friends I'd bring in and you know, and like sit at the juice bar and I felt like this was a safe place for me and I was sober at the time and I didn't. I didn't even eat meat, I was vegan. I was very disciplined and so I liked how disciplined and how they would crack the whip and they'd be like they got me to do a course on Christmas day. Like they would be like do a course, and I was like, okay, okay, I need someone to whip me into shape, like I thought this was help. I thought this was counseling and even though it was very stressful, again, I thought it was that person. That person was stressful, that person's out of line, right, it's that person who keeps writing reports about me, that it's them. It's not the whole organization. So I was very like sheltered from seeing it. I saw things that were wrong, but I thought L Ron Hubbard is a humanitarian and this is COB wants the best for us and this is they're changing that.
Speaker 2:And, of course, you go to the events and you're constantly getting the propaganda, your con and everyone's smiling and looking at you and you're reading these things and it's, it's just three days on course became four days on course, became eventually I was on course every single day. I could be and I would, but it again I was starting to fall back and go okay, well, maybe I need to just do a day or two on course and get back, as the seawork thing didn't work out, that that threw me for a loop, and I do know that the people who saw that they must have seen it, because I'm not as slick as I think I am. You know I think you're thinking inside, but they see you. You know I'm very expressive and of course I would say things. I'm very honest. I wear my heart on my sleeve. So I know they're like okay, we don't get this girl paired in with a rich Scientologist or doing something, we're gonna lose her.
Speaker 1:Okay, we don't get this girl paired in with a rich Scientologist or doing something we're going to lose her Interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's my idea, because it felt very like, okay, okay, okay, well, let's try this. And then, getting with him, Mike's husband, we traveled around the world. So I went to works around the world and then together we became IAS major donators and they would reg him through me. And then I started making money. I was modeling for his workshops, his photography workshops, and I was doing all kinds of things. I started doing music more, I started exploring things because it was like, okay, and he was like do a couple courses and sit back, smoke a cigarette, have a cup of coffee, donate, leave me alone.
Speaker 2:Like a club Scientologist, like they would use it as a, as a club to meet people and be elite and the kids. But and I liked that I was like, ooh, he's got status Suddenly. I didn't have to be on staff, I didn't have to work for my status, I could just donate money. But it became more increasing pressure that if you're going to do that path, you've got to donate a lot of money. So now they were like hey, we know, you just came back from your tour. Uh, you know, we're trying to save children from psychiatrics and blah, blah, blah, blah and then get kids off of drugs.
Speaker 2:And so the 50,000 he initially put in, they, they told me this and I was like, okay, well then I was like honey, let's, let's donate more money. This is, this is saving the world. And they would put us in rooms and they would. It would be hours long reg sessions and they would bring in all the people from the CEO or would come in and be like, hey, I mean, it would just be hours and hours and then we would relent and it would be another 50,000. And before I knew it we were $1 million into the IAS gold meritorious with the medals.
Speaker 1:I still have that necklace.
Speaker 2:I saw my class five pin. I threw away all my books, all my PTS literature. I kind of wish I didn't, cause I could go on YouTube and point it out. I kind of you know. But in my healing journey I was like I want this stuff out of my house, but I didn't. The necklace I'm like this is real gold. I'll melt this down or something.
Speaker 1:The only thing that that that snuck out and when they gave us our belongings because we escaped, obviously was a pair of gold OT earrings with the little diamond in them. Oh my, I know I'm like cringe. Oh my gosh, did you melt them down? Do you still have them? No, I still have them. I'm like hell. I'm not touching those with a 10 foot pole. They're cursed.
Speaker 2:I know it feels like it. Right, that's how I felt with all my my books. I had the PDCs, the Philadelphia doctorate courses. When I read all the the satanic, spiritual, woo, new age stuff in there I was like, oh, I'm going to throw up. When I read, when I'm discovering where all this stuff comes from, and his son right or grandson posing, I'm like that's where he put. And everyone talks about the PDCs, the Philadelphia doctorate. I never did those, Thank God, and those of course are.
Speaker 1:Magic is those were from like the fifties, I think, right, 1952 or 1953. Yeah, yeah, of L Ron Hubbard giving lectures in the early, very early days of Scientology. That's just just for context, for anyone who's wondering what that is.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you are pushed, coerced and absolutely bombarded via text message, in person, emails that come to your house. You've got to do your next step on the bridge. So you buy those things and you keep them quiet a little bit. Now you've got to start that thing. You keep them quiet. It's always a constant. You're not doing enough. So I bought all the lectures I bought 10 times over. We need to put all the books in the library 10 grand. There you go. You need the red edition special e-meter $15,000. All right, you got money on account at flag. Use it for this. We need constantly open up credit cards. I mean, the money was flowing.
Speaker 2:There was this golden time where I'm traveling with my husband and I'm at flag and I'm like this is the it's even bougier than celebrity center. I'm like, oh, I'm a small town girl with big bougie dreams, right, champagne tastes on a beer budget. I was not raised around this stuff but I grew up with the fantasy of film and television and wanting to create that. And the first year when I met my ex-husband cause we're divorced now year when I met my ex-husband because we're divorced now, of course, but my dad died and that drove me, claire, in such a depression because he really was my spiritual guardian, my covering, and it drove me.
Speaker 2:There was where I was on the precipice and that was the first year in Scientology. And now it's like, well, I don't have a dad. This man is now my guardian, my husband. It was right before we got married, we were engaged and then, no, it was right before I met him. It was right before I met him. My dad died and that put me in such a depression. I was depressed and grieving when I met my ex-husband.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad. He sounds sounds like he was an amazing person he was. He would have loved you. I'm sure he's happy to to to to see you now.
Speaker 2:He exactly, exactly, and I'll see him again in heaven, you know. But yeah, it was. It was an intense time, a tumultuous time, and and then so I just threw myself into my new life and we had all these beautiful photos and I was in Italian Vogue and we're getting all these accolades from Scientology and I was bringing people into Scientology. I brought over 100 people into Scientology Wow, that that I know, probably more. But I got awarded for that right and they give me accolades. And I mean, I was the golden girl of Scientology. I was doing services and I was still donating money. And then I was traveling and they put posters of me get trained because I did solo one. And then they were like we want to get you on your training lineup. And then I did all of these things. I did, I went clear and then I did the next steps for OT preps and then, oh yeah, there's something called superpower. You know about superpower now? Of course I do.
Speaker 1:You know funny side story, joy. When I joined the C organization in 1991, I was recruited to be a superpower auditor.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you could have been my auditor to be a superpower auditor.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you could have been my auditor. It never happened then, but yes, I'm very well aware of superpower and the cause or surgeons rundown, which used to be called the running program, which was actually to handle people who were constantly in trouble.
Speaker 2:Are you serious? So you know more about it. You read all the confidential stuff. This is amazing. I have questions for you about it. You read all the confidential stuff. This is amazing. I have questions for you about this. So I did both, and so I went in 2013.
Speaker 1:Now it's 2013. And it's the brand new golden age of tech too, and and so at this point, you're still just two years into your career as a Scientologist, correct? Still just two years into your career as a.
Speaker 2:Scientologist correct, yeah, but this time I'm like I'm a superstar. I'm two years in but I am full blast because I'm like this is my chance. I may not be a Sea Org member, but I can do it like the Sea Org. And I was so religious about it because I was trying to prove myself and I had so many wounds. I wanted that attention, I needed that love and that affirmation and that you did a good job. That pat on the shoulder, and it is my love language. You know words of affirmation, acknowledgement, right, but I was desperate for it at that time and they were oh Joy, you're so amazing. Wow, yes, yes. If you did this, you would help us so much. Oh, thank you. And all the love, bombing, all the things. I thought oh man and I know there's good people stuck in Scientology For sure you weren't evil when you were doing what you were doing. I wasn't evil when I was doing it. And people who think all Scientologists are evil they're victimized by evil cults. The upper echelon is evil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in fact, most people get lured in at the outset and I'm sure you'd agree with this because they want to help people.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely that was the biggest thing. That's why I trained. I was like I can help people. This becomes a ministry, it becomes a motivational factor, and so when we did superpower, so that was the big thing. So when we did superpower, so that was the big thing. I did superpower. And right after I did superpower, I I walked the Grammy's red carpet, and I had done that a few times before, but this time I was in a Trump dress at the Grammy's Right.
Speaker 2:And I remember hearing about this right, it was worldwide phenomenon and suddenly I was a superstar, like in a way I'd never had before, like I was. I remember being on the plane and I would look and I saw everybody had their phones out and it had pictures of me in it and I was like this is crazy, like in the dress it was. It was top news and it became something where, of course, I, I, you know. Then I worked on that news and promoted more and then I got invited to the White House, I became on the Trump advisory campaign and you know all of this stuff. I'm not, as I'm not as politically charged as I was active, because at the end, it's not about politics, it doesn't do anybody. And there's so much black and white and he said, she said, and hate on both sides. I just I got very over it and now I'm like, if it's not ministry related, if it's not actually helping people, I don't really want to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, that makes sense. And so was Scientology encouraging you and trying to capitalize on this, or what was the reaction there when all this was going on? It?
Speaker 2:was so weird, claire, because it was both that, because I was now a celebrity and I was on the news, I was doing interviews. They were like see, that's superpower. And I can't explain it to this day because there are wins that I had in Scientology. But I also know, looking at it, that I would have had those regardless, because I was always a hard worker, I was always very vocals, always like let's do the next thing, and I was very studied and and I am a singer, songwriter I had music out acting. I was always going after my goals. I was built like that, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always frame that as don't underestimate the power of belief right.
Speaker 2:Yes exactly.
Speaker 2:Like it's not the Sea Org that crafted you into that hard worker. You were a hard worker, you were smart. You would have been smart if you had been in Google, if you had been anywhere right when you are now. It's like we are these types of people and there is something in Scientology where they know how to take advantage and exploit the people that, like you said, want to help and who are bright. They have, like a brightness. You can always tell the people that are like oh, they're going someplace, yeah, they grab and and they say they want to make the able more able. But they really want to take the able and make you a part of their system. Is what right? Capitalize on the able exactly, and take full credit. So they took full credit for it. They're like that superpower has caused resurgence.
Speaker 2:You better thank cob in your speech. I remember I wrote a speech and I didn't think COB in it and I said do I have to thank COB and L Ron Hubbard? And they said, yeah. So all of those speeches and of course you know they change the speeches and make you do it. So I was the golden child and now they love that. I was famous Um, they loved it, but the pushback from you know negative writings and negative pushback on politics, the controversial aspect they did not like because suddenly Scientology started coming up in the conversation, cause I was overt that I was a Scientologist.
Speaker 2:I'd already done a meet a Scientologist I'm a Scientologist video. I published it. Cause they took it down Now of course I'd already had you know I was. They didn't have Scientology TV at that time but now that video showed all over Scientology TV. Now not anymore, I'm sure, but you know I was.
Speaker 1:You'd be surprised actually Really, we should take a look and see.
Speaker 2:Well, they took it off their YouTube channel.
Speaker 1:Oh well, we've helped people through the Aftermath Foundation's work, and even six months later, I mean obvious. Of course it goes without saying that the people we help are kept anonymous for their own safety. If they decide to speak out like you, then great, wonderful. But that's never going to be a part of the conversation. If someone needs help getting out, but so Scientology may or may not have conversation of. If someone needs help getting out, but so Scientology may or may not have known that we helped get this person out. Nonetheless, six months later, their videos were still up. Are you they're?
Speaker 2:slow with that, for sure, and I thought you know. I mean I'm like where are all the websites on me? What's going on? Yeah, I'm glad they're not fair game to the extreme. I do see some comments and there's there's some limited, there's some stuff that they're doing, but it's not extreme, thank god, yeah, um, but I think also, I don't know, maybe they have to change their tactics at some point, because it's been talked about, it's though, though you know, as you know, scientology, in my experience, is incapable of change.
Speaker 1:I mean, our last instance of fair game was this past Thursday. We got an email from investigative journalist at Freedom Magazine trying to harass us. Gosh, are you serious?
Speaker 2:Yep, what did they?
Speaker 1:try to say oh, like working on some article about some business that we ran in 2014, where it had to do with product reviews. A friend of ours was selling on Amazon. I mean, it's literally pathetic and stupid. It's just an attempt to harass. Listen, claire.
Speaker 2:We saw in 2009,. You did a negative Yelp review of that sushi restaurant. We need to cover it because that's what we would do.
Speaker 1:You're a bigot who uses the word bigot, I know exactly Dead giveaway Anyone who says that in the comments.
Speaker 2:Oh, dead giveaway when I see all of my Twitter. You're a bigot. This isn't cool.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, okay, and you know they have AI bots.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I found one that's that was harassing me. I just blocked them. That's an AI girl, that's like and it I know because I'm in the space. I have a business where I have, I use AI tools and and you know, I I I'm always searching what could I use. This is where they can make an AI version of you and it moves weird, though it's really good if you don't know, but if you know that they. And then I said and I was walking like the movements don't match. Yeah, they have an AI girl. She looks like just some random blonde, normal person and she's like yeah, so I saw that this is absolutely wrong and that joy Vila it's not. And she said so. She was never really a Scientologist or whatever their thing was. And I was just like this is so fake, this is so lame, but they'll do whatever they have to to try to yeah, and I always say you know, I again from having grown up in Scientology, they're all.
Speaker 1:Their many labels were terrifying to me, but then I realized, you know, the only power they have over me is the power I grant them. And so I'm what's that? I said, preach it Hallelujah. Yes, there you go. I know you're having your voice and your freedom. Nothing, nothing. That's. That's what that's what it is to you know. Seize what's in front of you and be the good, as they say, as in the words of Gandhi, that's right.
Speaker 2:So when's your TED Talk coming out? I want to see a TED Talk from you, Claire. You got full of wisdoms and encouragement.
Speaker 1:I did do a TED Talk, you did, I did. Well, no, sorry I take it back I auditioned for one, I did, but this was right before COVID hit. I was going to do it in Denver and then, of course, everything got shut down and life got in the way and I got busy. But no, the the one that I drafted and auditioned for was specifically on what it's like to be born into a cult, because one of the questions from my experience that I struggle with is people are like hey, you seem like a smart, normal person. Like, why did it take you so long to get out? Well, I mean, birth to 30 was my, my Scientology story 30 like that, like that's your whole.
Speaker 2:it's not your whole life, because now you're, you have your life, but yeah, for somebody else it's like like that's you're you have your life, but yeah, for somebody else it's like like that's that's your most formulative years of completely completely, and that's always.
Speaker 1:And also to the point of my ted, my auditioned ted talk, I should say, is I ted? Talk yes, there you go. I always, as now, being a mom of three boys, I firmly am dedicated to the belief that it should be illegal to involve children in cults. End of story. End of story Formative years. What children need is unconditional love and support and education, and Scientology is frankly opposed to all of those things.
Speaker 2:They are they are. And and and the fact that you could be born into something without your choice and be manipulated and coerced and abused. It's it's child trafficking. You were trafficked to work for the cult for free, for $50 a week, for 30 years, whether you were in it you were. You were groomed as a baby, as a kid. Cause you had no, you were never given a choice and kids can't consent. Kids can't consent Nope.
Speaker 1:Nope, exactly, exactly, right, so okay. So back to your story though. Yeah, so at what point in the later years did did you start to realize this was not for you? How did you contemplate, like, what did that process look like in terms of even having doubts and not being able to express those? Walk me through that part?
Speaker 2:yeah, because it became a. It became a weird trap where I felt like I had this metal cage around my neck and it was like this and I couldn't, you know, like almost those horse blinders. I couldn't look to right, I couldn't look to left. You know indoctrination and I did the, the false purpose rundown, which is, you know, sex checking, whole track, which is interrogation, yeah, interrogation for evil purposes and intentions that are holding you back.
Speaker 2:Right On this life and your and your past lives Exactly, and it's so dehumanizing and you're coming up with I don't know I pocketed the change. I should have done this. I forgot to put the plants out. You're just trying to find anything that can read on that, because I mean it was hours and hours and hours. Now that didn't stop.
Speaker 2:It started because of my traumatic background. I know that they went through all of those scenarios through a very fine-tooth comb, but they would say, okay, we didn't, the CS wants more information. And they would keep bringing up the same stuff and I would. They're like we have to hit it at all the different ways. And it started being so hard to function and be a good Scientologist. It was like it was like they wouldn't let me just live and every time I reached a sort of speaking engagement or fame, they were like we have to send a handler out to you. You do another Grammys, we have to send somebody there. So I was not allowed to really be alone.
Speaker 2:Now I experienced the Scientology celebrity treatment where I was. It was really where I was constantly locked under, surveillance of what I was doing, and that was like they would constantly call me, text me. Um, when we stayed in Los Angeles, we lived in the celebrity center for six years. We lived there like half the time of the year. I'd be in that celebrity center in the wow. You're literally living there, literally living there.
Speaker 2:I mean beautiful, gorgeous. In Kirstie Alley's room that she designed the blue wallpaper you can see in Leah Remini's one of her videos. Yeah, when she was in she does that interview in a room with blue, like what was it called Eau de toile, so that kind of you know, it's like a Renaissance scene and blue on white paper. It's, it's very, it's very Renaissance looking and the bed has posts and sheets and I mean it's. It's my ideal standard of looking like I'm, like, I'm in a castle. I love this. I'm in a French castle, french Provincial.
Speaker 2:That was where I lived for six years and it was very, it was beautiful, but it was a prison, right, because as soon as I would get to the elevator I'm in the org and it's. You had to pay, you had to do the course. It's an elevator ride right down to the next step and it became really hard to have two minds to be a Christian and a Scientologist. I would, I would give interviews and I'd say I'm a Christian Scientologist and I I wanted to safe point Christianity. I wanted them to get it because I also wanted them to alleviate my pressure, the feeling that I had that I was in something dark and wrong, like I'm, like I just want other people to get it so that I cause that's really what it is is them they're not getting it. I knew there was something off, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was.
Speaker 1:During so that makes sense and during the years that you were starting to feel that things were off, did you did? Did you have fear that if you did try to break away, Scientology would use information you'd given them against you? Was that a fear that you had or no?
Speaker 2:Um, I think it was because I was married to a Scientologist. It was never like I'm going to break away from Scientology.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It's like I just have to work this out. It wasn't until 2020. So 2019, I got divorced. Uh, there was infidelity and there was issues going on on his side and I was just like this isn't going to work and I felt very neglected, because it was a very it was. I wasn't allowed to cry in front of my husband, so I he would just leave the room. So I learned how to hide my emotions and, as a good Scientologist does right, put your TRs in it was so hard.
Speaker 2:No case on post, exactly, and you know everybody was on that on that side. Just don't you know, don't show it off. And and my ex-husband would tell me just go and go in session, just talk about in session. I don't want to hear it Talk about inside. You're hungry, go get your, go get your body words in very much. And so I realized, okay, this isn't going to work.
Speaker 2:I'm very vocal, I'm very outspoken and in the politics arena, they wanted me to run for Congress. So I was looking at running for Congress. And that's when Scientology wanted you to run for people in the white house and voters, and and I I'm getting thousands of messages from people. I'm doing my lives, I'm doing a speaking tour. I wrote a book, I'm at, you know. So all this stuff is happening. I'm doing movies, I'm doing my more music. I hit number one on Billboard, itunes, amazon. I'm doing tours. I'm an independent sensation, I'm doing my living, my art, and I'm in a lot of these conservative circles and they're like Joy, you need to run for Congress, we need your voice because I'm very outspoken, I'm on Twitter and blah, blah, blah. And that was when I said, okay, I'll start a congressional run and it'll be like maybe in Florida, because we were looking at moving to Florida. You know I'm at flag all the time. Why not be at Florida?
Speaker 2:And that is when Scientology pulled me into a room I'll never forget, in the president's office at celebrity center, and they told me you cannot run for Congress, scientology is not political. And that is when I did push back because I was like how dare you tell me what I can and cannot do? And they're like read these references, word clear these references. So I spent days word clearing all these references and nothing in there that L Ron Hubbard says is a Scientologist can't be political. And I said that to him. I said this also Scientologist, not Scientology. And that's when they said we still don't want you running for Congress. And they actually told me about the guardian's office and what they had done. Kind of they said we had some people, some SPs, that got in right, totally not how it's presented the truth. But they said we had something and we don't want that to be drug up because it'll create black PR and bad press for Scientology. And so, just like that, my career aspirations in politics, maybe for the best, but maybe not. I'm not a quitter. So that bothered me. I gave it up and 2019 rolled around and I just said this isn't working with my marriage. So I got divorced. They didn't want me to get divorced. They flat out told me you cannot get divorced and I said show me the reference.
Speaker 2:By then I started being like show me the reference. Now I'm in, I'm seven years, eight years in Scientology. I'm like show me the reference. Like you know, I got a little more training. I've got more of my status here. I'm like who are you talking to? You know like I'm Joy Vila and I had this bit of pride and the status on who I am. And I was also like how come nobody's defending me online? I'm finding all these Twitter trolls, all these Tony Ortega's out there writing articles about me. Of course, now they're all my friends, right? Of course, Now, they're all my friends right, of course. But at the time I was like I'm getting attacked and they don't care. Os is like, you know better you than us, kind of thing. And they but they did. They didn't like that the articles would come out about me. I'd get pulled in another sec check Cause. They're like well, what have you done? Why is this leaking? Why is this going?
Speaker 1:I'm like blaming blaming you for someone even talking about you.
Speaker 2:Literally, and I started getting really upset and I thought, man, what is going on? I really didn't like OSA. I really didn't, obviously, I really don't like them, because they were always trying to stop me. They said every time you do an interview, you have to submit that press to us first, because, like we do with Tom right, and they all call him TC right in there and like with TC, um, you know, we're going to make sure that that you don't. They said, like for my good, so that the that the person isn't like anti-Scientologist and starts asking about you know OT levels or something Right, and like and tries to scare you and whatever make you sick. And so I was like oh, okay, it sounds good.
Speaker 2:I didn't do it, Cause I'm like are you kidding me? Like a red carpet event is tomorrow. I don't have the 24 hour, like two week process that says submit, cause I tried it. They'd never get back to me. I'm like, no, these people are not working for me. I was like, oh, so he's got a problem. I couldn't say that, though, because in the snitch culture of Scientology, obviously a knowledge report would be written about me, and there was always knowledge, reports written about me from whatever I wore to the things Cause I would joke and I would you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, she's joking to grade. I might always have a sense of humor about things. And I did say to one time I'm sure there was reports about me after I did cause resurgence I said you know, maybe we are a cult.
Speaker 1:I mean, in all fairness, look at the definition of a cult in a dictionary. It's pretty dead on.
Speaker 2:It's dead on. The cost of surges is the weirdest crap that you ever have seen. And you pay. Is it 5,000, 2,500? It's cheap, so people do it a lot.
Speaker 1:I think I've heard now it's 5,000 and you run around. You run around a pole. It's a genius from a space. Oh my gosh, it's based on the it's OT objectives.
Speaker 2:Objective processing is to look outside yourself and receive this amazing wins. And they the way they sell this, this ball of crap, is like it's the best thing ever. They're such used car salesmen in Scientology. I did that. That is the. That's the best thing ever. I mean, they're such used car salesmen in Scientology. I did that. That is the. That is something that was truly disappointing when I did that, that was in 2013. I was like, oh no, this ain't for me. And people are like I love it. I was doing it for 30 days.
Speaker 1:And how many hours a day? How many hours a day did you run around? Five, five, okay, yeah, there you go, people at the base. There were people that would do it five hours, but there were also people, when they were doing it full time, that would do 12 hours a day.
Speaker 2:They didn't allow us to do it 12 hours a day. Yeah, you're just getting your steps in. There's nothing spiritual about that, that is. It is so bizarre. It's a black room and you just walk around a pole and you have to keep your eye on the pole the whole time, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, I read the the advices, like the original writings about it, and it was um. Hubbard's explanation was that it's from you know, holtrek, like I said, where, um, you would go and find a rock in the middle of space and just circle around it. And it's on the premise of confusion and the stable datum, which again is a Scientology belief, that if you're, if you've got mass chaos and confusion, you pick one thing and fix and hold all your attention on that and the confusion will disperse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sounds a little bit like what's that called when you have something in front of you and you stare at it. Hypnosis Sounds like hypnosis, completely. That's the definition of hypnosis Just stare at this one thing and don't look at anything else and focus on it, all your focus on this thing. That's hypnosis.
Speaker 1:Yeah, same as same as TR. Zero the communication. Fix on that person. Don't look away, don't blink, don't do anything, don't fidget, don't. Uh, you know, don't show any, any emotion, emotion and to have kids doing this stuff. It's completely horrendous abuse stuff. It's completely horrendous abuse, Completely. And so, since we're getting to the end here of our allotted time for today and I want to be respectful of your time- I can talk a little bit more, if you want.
Speaker 2:Okay awesome.
Speaker 1:So how do I talk? A lot, claire, I'm sorry. It's all good. I've been looking forward to this and I really appreciate you sharing your story, and we have obviously a lot of common shared experiences, even though you were in Scientology after me. But so what did your exit process look like, let's say, and how did you get through that? What was that like for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my exit process started when, in 2020, there was this thing I don't know if you remember this something called COVID-19. Did you hear that? Of course, I don't even know what it was about, but you know something. So that was when the pressure was applied to all Scientologists you better freaking do your bridge, because the government is about to take it away from you. I kid you not. That was every time David Miscavige got on there because he was doing all the graduations at Flag before that and we're like, oh, cob is doing the Flag graduations and so he would give you all this. And then it was COVID. It was immediate lockdown.
Speaker 2:I was actually traveling during the time and then I was in Los Angeles and I went into the Los Angeles bubble to stay at CC celebrity center and then I forgot why, but it was. I was crying. It was so disturbing the type of auditing I was receiving. It was very dehumanizing. That was when things started changing. They were like I don't know what was going on, but there was a staff member named Rebecca there. She was my ethics officer at the time. The ethics officer has all the power to write you up and report you. If you're not, you don't get auditing. Auditing is supposed to be a pleasure thing that you get to receive right. It's not a right, even though because you get to finally talk, even though the auditing can be quite abusive and harmful, you feel like you're getting some work, because you're like I'm talking out my traumas, I'm getting some hope. And then you get the high. We're all drug addicts in Scientology. You're chasing that high. You're chasing that relief, because the pressure is so hard that any sort of normalcy feels like pleasure. And I was like, oh my gosh, I need this. I was post-divorce. It was like everything was, and then, and then COVID, everything was heaping down on me and they're like, if you don't get right, you're mid your OT preps. That's what's wrong with you, cause I was mid my OT preps and I was already on my training journey. I was a class three auditor at that time where I was a class two auditor, and so they're like you need to go.
Speaker 2:And then a friend talked me into going to South Africa. So I went to South Africa. I studied there. That was actually the best time I ever had in Scientology because they're very more free there and I studied at the class five org, not the AO bubble and I met people there friends there that I still have today who've left Scientology praise God, awesome, third generation. I'm not going to say who it is, but I do have a friend from my time out there who is a third generation Scientologist who left Scientology. Like you, was in since they were a child and was in the Searics since they were 12. So it is unbelievable what this person went through and we became best, best, really good friends and they came out later, like I came out later.
Speaker 2:So I'm, I'm in, you know, and I'm I'm addicted to traveling because I love it. I love to travel, I love new experiences. So I thought, well, if I'm having scientology overseas, I have all these friends, it's amazing. And then it didn't quite work out in south africa. And then saint was like we want you to train here, this is where you'll go to, you need to go to get this AO. I mean, I was just like reaching for anything, cause I kept getting these weird like ethics things, like you have to finish this, you have to do now, you have to do a keeping Scientology working course and I'd go wait what? No, I need to do that and it was always. It became such a fight.
Speaker 2:That was when I knew something was up and I know Scientology was freaking out during COVID because they lost. Probably half the people in Scientology walked away because the way they handled it was so bad, claire. They made us watch tons of videos, wear masks, gloves to go in session. We had to get COVID tests constantly. We had to live in a bubble where you can't go into the town for months and months and months. They had to ship people in.
Speaker 2:We were living like Searig members as paying clients of Scientology, and we were At St Hill in England. Yes, I mean, we were at St Hill, but we were living on the outskirts. You can't live in St Hill unless you're Searig members. You know how it is. They're shipped out somewhere else. But this was when I was on lines at St Hill and it was such torture it. This was the worst experience I had because the people there were so beautiful. I love the St Hillers and the elderly people that work there. They had a lot of elderly people but it was so broken because that was when they pushed me to do 12 hours a day, six days a week.
Speaker 2:I noticed abuse of time on other individuals. People were breaking down. It was lonely, was isolated. I started getting depressed. I finished my class five, I got into my class for internship. It was never enough. Now I trained there with Tom Cruise's daughter, bella Cruz. She was also class five and she was on her class five internship and we were in there in that basement training 12 hours a day and you're just like. You just want it to end. You just want to get through it so you can go OT. But yet you're also looking forward to taking someone in session because it's your relief, you can help someone, you can listen to their problems.
Speaker 2:Everything I did it wasn't good enough and that for me it finally broke me. When there was there was so much attack on my. I was depressed, I was. I was going broke. I was racking up credit card debt because I wasn't working during this time. You can't sing and speak. All the. I lost $30,000 worth of potential gigs. They all canceled boom, boom, boom during COVID because there was no venues to sing or perform and I was living off the little bit of some money coming from my music sales and other projects and I would do, you know, had a few things. But I became so hyper, fixated and depressed because they said if you just go full blast on the bridge, it'll solve all your problems. So that's what I did. It became torturous.
Speaker 2:I was sitting in my room and it could only be places you could stay at. You could rent rooms or you could stay in the hotel that was only sanctioned by Scientology. It had to be the Scientologists and they would rack up the prices on these rooms. I tell you that much like unfair prices and it was like oh, ot is running these places that were approved but it's such a racket and they're like crappy accommodations compared to what you're paying.
Speaker 2:And they knew all of these foreign people would be coming from poor countries. I'm at least had some money in my pocket, even though it was going fast because of intensive after intensive and then training and training. But there was people coming from really poor countries that this was the nearest org to them and then, once they're there, they have to leave their family, stay in the bubble. You can't leave. If you leave, you have to come back and do a two week quarantine at your own expense it was. You couldn't go into town. None of the Sea Org members at at the base were allowed to go into town for two years In fact maybe longer, I think. Now they've just now been able to go out, so they haven't left the base.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Side side comment, by the way, my uncle is still works at St Hill as a Sea Org member. Who's your uncle? Frank O'Sullivan.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. I know, frank, are you serious?
Speaker 1:He's what's his post? I don't, I don't know, I know, I mean I the last time I saw him was 2011, at my grandmother's funeral in england, um, and, of course, even then he wouldn't talk to me or look in the eye becauses He'd been on the. He was on the rehabilitation project force for 10 years, oh my God, and he escaped and my mom tracked him down and snitched on him and also brought him back.
Speaker 2:That's the culture Scientology creates. Correct Snitch on them and because they're told, you're told that's for their own good, right, and that is a dangerous world out there Like people like me and you are now in this dangerous swamp world where they're all drugs and crazy and, like every big psychs, big pharma is, you know, tearing at our faces and they tell you the outside world doesn't get it. And so I believed all that hype. Even though I traveled the world and saw outside people, I kept myself in a bubble.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's interesting that they converted COVID just to forward that narrative and make it even more controlling.
Speaker 2:They did, and that was when I could see the control aspects. They they pushed way too tight. It was so I mean, it was so tight and I'm like what happened to? I'm a celebrity and I'm an artist and like they didn't care. You have to, you have to show up and you I acted as if I was a Sea Org member. But I'm paying. I'm not a Sea Org member, but they ran us on Sea Org schedule that you have to be here from 9am to 9pm because you have to finish this and because they also use the excuse of you're on a limited time with you know, with the, with the, not green card. But what's the immigration right? You get six months at a time. We have to leave, come back, do another two-week quarantine. So they're using all this pressure. They amp the pressure.
Speaker 2:The pressure has always been intense in Scientology, but this broke me. This absolutely broke me and I was depressed. I was lonely. I didn't talk to anybody else but Scientologists. I felt like nobody would love me or know me or care about me if they knew how badly I was doing. So I pretended like I was okay. I only told a few Sea Org members how I was feeling and they laughed it off. They said oh, you love people. You're fine, joy, not you. You're good. Just get out of your head Exterior eyes, just go look at some stuff and I'll give you a. I'll give you a locational, you're fine.
Speaker 2:Like everything was brushed off and this death feeling, this wanting to die, it got worse and worse and worse. I was. I was strung out on caffeine Like I was skinny and I was just like I think I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it Cause I thought at the end it's going to be worth it. I'm going to sacrifice everything my health, my time, my energy, my money, my family, whatever. I didn't date. I didn't go out. I just did Scientology because they promised me that once I got on my OT levels it'd all be worth it. And I saw their people sacrifice on their OT levels and if I don't do it now, it's going to be taken away from us and they would scare us every week with a new fear unlocked. Until at that moment I just I reached out to a staff member and I confessed everything. I'm depressed, I feel horrible.
Speaker 2:I was also scared to say I couldn't say like I heard voices telling me to die. I did at that time. It was so oppressive and demonic because I'm like am I having a psychotic break? Am I like my mom? I was so scared. I'm like am I, am I the crazy one? I always thought it was me. But if I say I have anxiety, I have depression, I feel lost. I'm not allowed to say that that's.
Speaker 2:I'm a rock slammer, I'm an I. You know I. I'm the problem, there's something wrong with me. And rock slam is a term in Scientology like you have this weird read on an e-meter that shows that you're basically a criminal, right, right? I was afraid. I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want to rock slam, I don't want to be seen as an SP.
Speaker 2:That was when I was afraid and I can't say anything because if they write me up, I'm already in so much ethics trouble. I was in ethics trouble for no reason. By the way, in 2020, before I left to the UK, I had tweeted does anyone know a good Christian church in Nashville? I have a speaking gig. I'm out there. I'm on a book tour. I got called in for an ethics cycle. That says why did you tweet that? It looks like you're trying to leave Scientology. Wow, and that scared the crap out of me. I like my blood ran cold because, in a way, I was reaching for Christianity, I was reaching for God, I was reaching for the religion of my old time, right, my comfort for people.
Speaker 1:Allegedly. If they do accept people of all religions, what's the problem with that Exactly, and they can.
Speaker 2:I parroted those, those same things. You can be a Christian Scientologist, but when it came down to it, you cannot be, you can't be, it's impossible. They make it impossible, for it's everything they, they do and they tell you and they, they can't. They don't, they, they can't tell you outright, but they do in their actions. And there was people who confessed to me and tried to warn me, who were Christians, who said listen, joy, I know you're a Scientologist, I'm a Scientologist too, but they're going to come down on you on Christianity. And I didn't hear it. I was like, no, they, no, there's no way until they did. And so they said you can't tweet like that. You represent Scientology, you're a Scientologist celebrity. Keep it shut. I said I thought I can be a Christian. Of course you can be, but you have to remember this is social media. It can be interpreted by bad people in the wrong way, right? They put all of this other guilt trip around it, so I guess they're right.
Speaker 1:And frankly I'm surprised that they even said you can be, because at least in the years that I was there, that would have been considered other practices, which is, of course, severely frowned upon.
Speaker 2:I think they had to open their ranks probably because they're losing people and you and you have. You have values that you know treat other people kindness. That can align. They must've made some sort of PR decision at some point from the time when I joined that we're going to align with Christian churches Because when.
Speaker 2:I came in I said, well, do you guys do any work with Christian churches? And they said, oh yeah, we work with the South African church here. And they told me this when I was in Celebrity Center when I was 22,. They told me we do church, we do interfaith, and they did. And I was involved with a lot of that stuff in DC.
Speaker 2:So they must've made it a plan to filter in, because how are you going to grow? You got to have Christians in now and you got to say, oh, you can be Catholic, you can be Christian. There's no way. How can you hear about Zinu and past lives? Even none of that is in the Bible. None of that. You don't even worship God. There's all you can wear. Eighth dynamic can wait. Eighth dynamic it's. You don't. As a Scientologist, you don't even have a concept of an eighth dynamic. They just put that on there for you for the tour, right? You're not actually encouraged. Okay, now we're all going to go and have have time to meditate on our first dynamic, our eighth dynamic. There's no time that you get to connect with a loving creator. There is nothing like that. There is no religion practice. There is do, do, do, buy, buy, buy, do more, buy more, snap pop, let's go, let's go. It's like a military, it's like North Korea. It has nothing to do with religion or connection.
Speaker 1:You make a good point. I'd never considered the eighth dynamic the God dynamic. I'd never considered it just a token gesture from Hubbard to just throw in a splash of, you know, religion for the eye. Nobody. Nobody does anything on the eighth dynamic, no we don't have any eighth dynamic processes.
Speaker 2:I was like is that OT eight? Is that, when we get to find out the eighth dynamic, like, when are we going to do this eighth dynamic? And I came in going oh, I already know the eighth dynamic. That's my God, my creator, but it's no.
Speaker 2:Scientologists are encouraged to have a faith or practice faith or any reflection or experience of eighth dynamic on the public. They want that you can be an Muslim, you can be a this. When, where, how? When I tried to be, they stopped me. They tried to stop me and I used to get upset and they'd say, well, are you praying while you're auditing? And I would say, listen, I'm going to pray, I'm a Christian and that's that.
Speaker 2:I don't pray in session and I just I started really it got so bad. I started just being like I don't want to hear this, this is not okay. I'm paying here, I want this. And I started demanding more help, change my auditor, all this stuff. And it led down to where nothing fixed anything. I'm sick.
Speaker 2:I mentally, emotionally, I feel I fell off my bike. I was riding a bike and I fell on and I still went in session. I was bloody, black and blue and they're like, yeah, go in session, you can't be late, like it was so abused. I also abused myself in that system because I thought I just have to prove to them I can do it. I just have to complete this next action and then I can rest, then I can have a break. And you know more than anyone this kind of mentality. They push on you. Yeah, and in my darkest time, when I I talked to one person, I trusted her and I said so you remember. And I said I'm feeling this way what can I do? What references do you have? What, what can? What did L Ron Hubbard say about this? Like, give me, I need some help please, I'm being vulnerable. And she just said, well, just go watch a funny movie.
Speaker 1:Wow, haven't heard that one before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because she had given me references and she could see. And I said listen, I'm at the end of my rope, I just got you know what can I do? And they're like well, she said watch a funny movie, don't think about it, and come back and take your PC in session tomorrow. I know it must have broken her heart because I know that you know she's a person of goodwill. There are good people in there that are of goodwill, that are just stuck in that system and they want she wanted to help me. I mean I talked to her for hours like free counseling sessions, like just like, oh, I'd vent because that was the only person I could talk to, but at the end she had no tools, she had no help. Right, thousand $2 million in 15 years. I was like, what am I doing? And I and I prayed, I said Jesus, help me. Finally I called out to Jesus. I said help me, I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm so glad you did Joy.
Speaker 2:Thank you. He brought me out and that was two years ago. I was in St Hill crying out. He brought me out of it and I ended up moving to a place where there's very little Scientology and the Lord said leave Scientology. I heard the voice of God tell me that I started going into counseling, deliverance ministry Bible, back into a Christian faith, finally confronting. Wait a second, let me Google Scientology and I was sweating. It was very painful to look it up and when I did, I found out everything and God told me write a book about it, which I wrote my book From Scientology to Christ the Escape. They Never Wanted Me to Make. It's available for pre-order on Amazon. I ordered it, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yes, of course, and I will, of course, link to your social media, your YouTube channel and the pre-order page of your book in the video description, and I would love to, once your book comes out and I've read it, I'd love to have you back on to deep dive into the book.
Speaker 2:Oh, that would be awesome Because I talk about this whole journey and I talk about the witchcraft aspect, which needs to be seen that L Ron Hubbard was a Luciferian he talks about he's Lucifer, he's going to prevent the second coming of Jesus and the devil's actually the good guy and Jesus was an implant and then he's an alien. I'm like, if Christians knew of course you can't be a Christian and a Scientologist If non-Christians knew that it's just it infuriates me, I will tell.
Speaker 1:Tell you, though, that I know on good authority that um high up people in the Vatican are definitely aware, and in fact I know that um there's a copy of a number of former Scientologist memoirs in the Vatican library, including Mark's book blown for good, jenna Jenna Miscavige's book in the library, wow, wow. Wow, yep, and I think you're right. It's absolutely important that people be educated on the deceptive practices of Scientology, how they do abuse people's beliefs and they lure people in under false pretenses, and that's really important to educate people about that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. It's become part of my life's work and I just say, god, if you want to bring the things back to me that I lost during Scientology years, it's up to you. But now I take my medicine, I read the Bible, I pray, I worship. I also lower myself because I was my own God during Scientology years. I knew better and the narcissistic feeding, the abuse that were, the love bombing that, oh yeah, I could become my own God. I can become my own creator. I can create this. It's so fed into my pride and my wounds at the same time. And God has completely healed that. I don't have depression, I don't have anxiety. I don't have those problems anymore. I wake up each day and I'm like, yeah, I go through life, but the healing happens so quickly and so incredibly that life is so much better, like even the best day in Scientology, like I'd take the worst day out any day, right, completely Right. Like every day is a great day.
Speaker 1:Completely. Every day is a great day. Freedom does that to you, and I'm just in concluding thank you so much for your time and sharing your story and everything that you've been through and are going through, and I'm just very grateful that you've decided to lend your voice to exposing Scientology and anything I can do to help. I'm here, too, so I appreciate your time, joy. It's been absolutely wonderful and I will look forward to our next conversation. Yes, awesome, all right, bye, bye.
Speaker 3:Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, kindle and audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast and you can get that on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.
