Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Marc Headley worked at Scientology’s secret desert compound, which houses all Scientology management, for 15 years. The 500-acre property is located deep in the California desert. The local townspeople were told lectures and films were made there. But is that all that was happening? It is the location of a multi-million dollar home for L. Ron Hubbard, built two decades after his death. It is the home of Scientology’s current leader, David Miscavige. So what really happens at the Int Base? Are the stories on the internet true? How does Scientology conduct management of its day-to-day operations? Could stories of armed guards, weapons, staff beatings, and razor wire fences be true? If so, how could a facility like this exist in modern-day America? Hundreds of staff tried to escape over the years. Some succeeded but were never seen or heard of again, and most failed. Why were people kept here? What really went on at the headquarters of Scientology? This is the story of what happened behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology.
Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed
Freedom Day: Claire’s Escape From Scientology - Secrets of Scientology #1
Freedom doesn’t always announce itself with trumpets. Sometimes it looks like a quiet walk past an optometrist’s office, a cab ride that feels like a lifetime, and a choice that will cost you every family tie the group controls. We’re marking Claire’s 21st anniversary of leaving Scientology’s International Headquarters—a date that, by eerie symmetry, lands on the 40th anniversary of L. Ron Hubbard’s death, a milestone the organization still avoids acknowledging.
We open up about the machinery that makes leaving feel like a sin: disconnection policies that weaponize love, “blows and recoveries” that rename escapes and kidnapping attempts as internal metrics, and the secret “door welded shut” approach to anyone fleeing Int Base. From forced divorces inside RTC to the Hole’s coercive environment, we lay out how language, policy, and fear knit together into a durable cage. We also map the institution’s obsession with rewriting history—editing Mary Sue, Nibs, and long-time insiders out of films and lectures to sanitize the past—while highlighting the independent sources that preserved the record, from Sarge’s accounts in Going Clear to meticulous journalism.
There’s a tactical layer too. We break down how protests were anticipated and neutralized, how thought-stopping turns curiosity into a trigger, and why even a well-meaning conversation with declared SPs can implode a young member’s standing overnight. For anyone on the fence, this is our harm-reduction guide: understand the risks before you engage, and know that questions have consequences in high-control systems. We also talk about healing—adrenal exhaustion, the simple miracle of sleep, and the way health returns when chronic stress recedes—because life after control isn’t theoretical; it’s better.
If this story resonates, share it with someone who needs a map, subscribe for future deep dives into cult tactics and recovery, and leave a review so more people can find it. Your voice helps others find their way out.
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Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to another episode of Belown for Good, Scientology Exposed. I am, as always, as most of the time, joined by my lovely wife, Claire.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, hey, hey, everybody. Good to see you here. Thanks for joining us. This fine freedom versary day.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Today we're going to talk about uh Claire's escape. This is the anniversary of the day she escaped from the International Headquarters of Scientology in Gilman Hot Springs, California.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, this day 21 years ago. So technically, since the there's there's studies that show that you freeze when you enter a cult. If I was born into this cultural, emotionally. Like an ice tray? No, emotionally. Emotionally, like you get stuck at that point. So technically, today I'm 21 years old.
SPEAKER_05:Oh wow, is that how we're playing this? Holy moly.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:You're saying you like freeze emo like mentally develop or emotionally or something like that. Yes, exactly. Because you're you're turning all that off.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So I was born into it. So I didn't have a, you know, if you look, there's there's all different kinds of studies which are really helpful. Many, many books I've read about it. But uh there's usually a pre-cult personality and then your cult personality. But being that I was born into it, I don't have memories before.
SPEAKER_05:You know what that means.
SPEAKER_01:What?
SPEAKER_05:That means I have heavily influenced your non-cult uh personality.
SPEAKER_01:Of course you have.
SPEAKER_05:Because I've been there the whole time. See what I'm saying here, guys?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah, well, it's thanks to you that I got out. So I think we've been married.
SPEAKER_05:Well, we've been married now more time than we were in the crazy place.
SPEAKER_01:Um yes, we have. Yeah. This year is gonna be our 34th anniversary.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we were you were 32.
SPEAKER_05:When we escaped.
SPEAKER_01:When we escaped, and I was 30.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So there you there you have it, folks.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, there you have it.
SPEAKER_01:Nothing like those kind kind of numbers to feel old, though.
SPEAKER_05:It's also the anniversary of L. Ron Hubbard's death.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And that's crazy too.
SPEAKER_05:How many years is it now today?
SPEAKER_01:Today is the 40th anniversary of L. Ron Hubbard's death. It's so crazy to me in retrospect, yeah, that that day is never talked about in Scientology. So I didn't even know that the day I escaped was the anniversary of his death.
SPEAKER_05:That's crazy. That is true. It's not really publicized at all.
SPEAKER_01:No. I didn't, I mean, I knew that he died in January 1986. Yeah. But it was, you know, shrouded in mystery and he'd been he was in hiding and all that. So as a person in Scientology at that time, actually, the here's a funny story that I don't think I've told you about. The way that I found out. Well, actually, I take that back, but I just I have a very distinct memory when we were living in East Grinstead. My January 1986 was the month before my sister was born, who is in the picture of the thumbnail for today's show with her face blacked out. But either way, so it was January 1986. I was living in East Grinstead, I was 11, and there was graffiti on a wall when we were taking a walk that was like, oh, Ron Hubbard died. Finally, Scientology's gonna die.
SPEAKER_05:And it was In graffiti, they wrote all that?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:That's a lot of verbiage for some some street art.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it was like, ooh, shoot.
SPEAKER_05:Well, look away.
SPEAKER_01:Look away.
SPEAKER_05:When he died, they had an event at the Palladium uh in Hollywood. Right on Hollywood. I think it's on Hollywood Boulevard.
SPEAKER_01:It is on Hollywood. The famous one. I think it's it's on YouTube, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05:Um there's some parts of it. Like David Miscavige and Pat Broker both did speeches at it. Excuse me, I'm I'm at the tail end of my cough.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Excuse me.
SPEAKER_01:He's he's much better, folks.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, as I cough, my brain's out here.
SPEAKER_01:Um we'll get there.
SPEAKER_05:There was an event at the palladium, and all Scientologists had to go to this event. And um I remember that. It's right, it was right across there's a whole bunch of Toyota dealerships that used to be on Hollywood Boulevard, right where the palladium is. And um and there was also a movie theater down there and hot dog stand next to the toilet. Anyway, um I grew up in Hollywood, so I hung out down there all the time. But when we went had the event, well, they were in there yipping and yapping, all the kids were just running around in the lobby.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So the only part of the thing that I remember was that a whole bunch of people started kind of like what and like freaking out. It's when they said, Hey, on this day, Aaron Hubbard kicked the bucket, and then everybody was like, what the hell? Yeah. And um, and so I only remember that. But you know, Amy Scoby tells a story of the her uncle, Dick Scoby, was the commander of the Challenger shuttle that exploded when it was launching in January of 1986. And that happened just I think a day or two before L. Ron Hubbard died.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:And Scientology management executives were happy because or maybe it happened right after L. Ron Hubbard died. That's I think that's what it was. I think it happened after. So the news of Hubbard's death was completely wiped out by the by the sh the shuttle disaster.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. You okay there, honey?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, just I gotta drink some.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Oh yes. Anyway, so this day is a huge day in my life and Mark's life, and uh and it is just funny or ironic, I should say, in retrospect, that I did not even realize that day that I made my escape that it was the anniversary of the yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And when we were doing it, I we that was literally like the the last thing we would think of. Completely just like, who cares?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I know. It's just not a it's not something it isn't talked about in Scientology. The same way many things are just Mary Sue Hubbard, the family.
SPEAKER_05:Shelly Miscavige, children, all one dying by a mysterious suicide in the middle of the desert.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, all the people who went to jail for infiltration of the U.S. government, the co uh unindicted co-conspirators, um his oldest son being totally anti-Scientology. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:It's that was and and also um his son it he they called him nibs. And in the in the lectures, he was mentioned a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:Because he was at St. Hill and he was traveling around with Hubbard. He was kind of like Hubbard's right-hand man when they were traveling around doing lectures and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:Right. He was his protege.
SPEAKER_05:And we had to edit out every mention of Mary Sue, nibs, all those things started getting chopped out of the lectures. And also, there was a guy named Reg. I think his name was Reg Sharp. He was mentioned a lot in films and and lectures. And then he became an SP, so he had to get his name had to get edited out of everything.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Scientology does spend a lot of time. Cutting out people who are ex-cutting out ex-scientologists from when they used to be OTs or L. Ron Hubbard's best friends.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Look at all the tech films in Scientology, the the amount of times they've had to revise, replace, revise, replace, even the the film that L. Ron Hubbard himself filmed, which is uh TR1.
SPEAKER_05:Uh the The main two guys. Well, one of the main guys is still alive, but he is declared a suppressive person.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Yeah. And many people in that in that film. That film is filled with Laurel Sullivan, like all these old-time people that are long gone.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Scientology is all about rewriting history.
SPEAKER_05:And it's funny that you mention that because um Sarge, one of the guys that was with Elrin Hubbard when he died at the ranch.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:He did an interview with Lawrence Wright. And that's what Lawrence Wright used a lot of that for his book when he wrote Going Clear.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, which of course is the book that the HBO documentary, Going Clear, is primarily based on or is based on.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and I remember that because Lawrence Wright talked to us many, many hours.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And days, actually. Like hours and hours over many, many days.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then after that, the research we talked with the researcher Lauren for days and days and days.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Bazillions of emails back and forth.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so much so that that's why remember Scientology's attack on the HBO documentary going clear. Um had a Freedom Magazine that we were we were featured on the cover with you pushing me into a bush. And I'm like, when is he ever pushed? When have you ever pushed me, let alone pushed me into a bush? Like, what the heck? Anyhow, and we weren't even in the documentary is so ironic.
SPEAKER_05:There's one slide where it shows a picture of our lawsuit. That's the that's the only mention of us in that film.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway, um that interview, uh a snippet of the interview, like a few-minute piece, is in the Going Clear film. But uh Lawrence Wright just made the entire interview available and it's on uh Tony Ortega's blog. I put a link in the description of the video. Nice, awesome. But this guy's telling all these stories. Basically Hubbard for the late 70s, mid-70s, all the way to his death. So basically, like the last ten years of his life. This guy covers in about an hour and a half all the different stories, and then shuttling Hubbard around and who was with him when he died and who went to the hospital.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway, it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Um, there was one other thing I was gonna say, but now I've been I mind wipe myself with the Tony thing.
SPEAKER_01:Um at least I didn't mind wipe you this time.
SPEAKER_05:So what else? Oh, I'll tell you what it was. I got this email from this kid. I want to say he's in England somewhere. Apostate Alex did an interview with him on his channel.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, Amir.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so I get this email from this Amir guy.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I got I got an email from Amir too.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think I CC'd you on my answer back to him.
SPEAKER_01:You did. You did.
SPEAKER_05:Did you answer him or you didn't do anything? I did. Oh, you didn't CC me on the answer back to him.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't because you've asked me to keep certain matters off your plate, and I respect that.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I don't hear about anything that happens in Scientology unless it's on Tony's blog or it shows up in my ex feed or whatever. But Skitty emails me and I looked at the interview that he did with Alex.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Or Alex did with him, whatever. Anyway, and I was thinking about it. I it I actually took uh like a week to think about like what I do that he wanted to come on our channel. Well, he wanted to just have a conversation offline.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And then he didn't and then he was like, and if we want to do something else, we uh that was kind of the gist of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Like he basically wanted to come on our channel.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I didn't I didn't want to.
SPEAKER_05:Or do an interview.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway. But at first he just wanted to have a conversation about Scientology.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And I really thought about this for like a week.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What is the purpose? Like we when we were in Scientology, I mean we grew we grew up essentially grip. You were born into it. I got in when I was like six or seven.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:So before we even joined the C org, we've been in Scientology, immersed in everything in Scientology for over 10 years. Yeah. Already. Then we're in the Sea Org for like I think you were in it for 15 years, and I was in it for 15 years.
SPEAKER_01:14 and a half, whatever.
SPEAKER_05:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Splitting errors, but so let's say 15 years. But also that and that does it for me. That doesn't count the six years I spent in the cadet organization.
SPEAKER_05:That's what I'm saying. So if you're if you wanna there's a uh guy, Malcolm Gladwell, says if you're gonna be an expert on something, you've got to do it for at least 10,000 hours.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:To be an expert in that thing or whatever you're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So already we'd been in for 10 years. Already.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Join the C org. And then we're working, you know, 8 30 a.m. to midnight, six days a week, and noon to midnight for one day a week. Over a hundred hours, probably, if you do all the math and all that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, easily.
SPEAKER_05:Fifty-two weeks a year. Not not a lot of days off. So let's just say it's at least a hundred hours a week. At least.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, there were ye there are many years we didn't get any days off.
SPEAKER_05:And there are many weeks we did two or three all-nighters or four all-nighters in one week.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:So if you just say it's a hundred hours a week, fifty-two weeks a year, that's fifty, two hundred. We're throwing we're we're clocking five thousand hours a year. We're there for fifteen years. That's a whole bunch of hours.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:More than 10,000.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:So we're super, super, super, super experts in it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:So how am I going to have a conversation with a kid who's got about a thousand hours in Scientology? Yeah. And for and for what purpose? I know, but it seems like a giant waste of time. But you go. I somebody I think would be valuable to have a conversation with is somebody who's been in Scientology the same hours of experience that we have in it. Yeah. Even if you just say we clocked out in 2005. And here's the funny part of that. We do that all the time. They're called ex-scientologists.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:So the more time you spend in Scientology, you eventually become an ex-scientologist. Once you learn everything there is to know about Scientology, you realize this is a giant scam to steal people's money. Yes. And then you leave it or you escape it or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:So as people like to say, the end phenomena of Scientology is leaving Scientology. You want me to tell you what I said to him?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I want to tell you what I said to him first, and then you can tell me. I emailed him back and I said, listen, dude, my wife and I we've done thousands of hours of interviews and videos and films and documentaries and podcasts on Scientology. And I've written a book and we've done all these videos on YouTube. I said, there's all my experiences in Scientology I've talked about for the most part. You can watch as many or as little as you want and you can find out. Okay, that's the first thing. The other thing is he's really do going rogue. He's doing something that's not allowed by Scientology. You're not allowed to talk to suppressive people, and just by doing so, he's gonna get kicked out of Scientology.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:And he's never gonna be able to get any more experience in Scientology.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Because they're gonna say you you're connected to SPs, you're PTS. You're done. That's it. Time out.
SPEAKER_01:By their standards, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So I feel like it would be a disservice. I know he did the interview with Alex and it and it seemed fine. He he talked, that's where I learned that he's a total green weenie. He's done he hasn't done anything in Scientology.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:He doesn't even know about the space cooties yet. So it's like, dude, you're you're you're like, it's not even worth having. I know what you know before I even joined the Sea Org. I was 10 years past your experience in Scientology.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway, tell me what you said.
SPEAKER_01:All right. I'm I'm the more diplomatic one, I would claim. I said, thank you for your email and for taking the time to introduce yourself. I appreciate the respectful tone of your message and your stated commitment to open communication and free speech. I'm not opposed in principle to conversation, and I'm always glad when people genuinely want to better understand different experiences and points of view. That said, before agreeing to speak, I'd want to better understand what you are hoping to accomplish through a conversation with me. I also want to be transparent about one concern. As you may or may not know, I'm a declared suppressive person, and it is explicitly against Scientology policy for an active Scientologist to communicate with me. Because of that, my hesitation isn't about openness or goodwill. It's about the potential fallout for you. I've seen too many people underestimate the consequences of actions they believe will be tolerated, only to be surprised later by ethics handling, pressure, disconnection, and worse. I wouldn't want to participate in something that could put you in a position you're not fully anticipating. So before considering next steps, it would help me to understand what you hope to gain from the conversation, what you see as the purpose or outcome for yourself, and how you've thought through any potential repercussions on your end. Once I have a clearer sense of that, I can better assess whether a conversation would be appropriate or responsible for all involved. Anyway, I appreciate you reaching out and wish you well regardless.
SPEAKER_05:So this is my point. You just made my point exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:He has so little experience in Scientology that us as ex-scientologists have to explain to him what's going to happen now in Scientology.
SPEAKER_01:Seemingly I mean, you know, we are because if his intention is to remain a Scientologist, then this is not a good idea for it.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. He's not no, no, he's not a Scientologist anymore. That's done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's done.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:He can't he can't go into the org. He's a he could be a spy now. He we could have turned him, all these things. Yeah. Scientology is like, that's the whole reason you're not supposed to talk to the enemy. Because if you do, they're gonna tell you things that Scientology hasn't told you, and then you're gonna leave Scientology. That's the whole purpose of suppressive people.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:To make sure that you do not get any of the information that they know about. Right. That's why all the people that worked with Eller and Hubbard when he was at St. Hill, like 95% of them are declared suppressive people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, including the people that came up with the idea of the barriers to study, for example. Like every single Scientologist can recite to you what the barriers to study are.
SPEAKER_05:No, no, it's it's the yeah, the barriers to study. That a couple that were Scientologists wrote that and submitted it to L. Run Hubbard, and he took their name off of it and put his on it. And then he declared them suppressive persons. Right. And and and everybody thinks L. Run Hubbard came up with this. No, it's just a rando couple in East Grinstead. Yeah. Scratch this thing out.
SPEAKER_01:I know, I know. Like it's it's just mind-boggling. Like, like is anything, but either way. But getting back to the topic at hand, this Don't get me all excited.
SPEAKER_05:I got I got lost.
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. That was that was that was fun. Everyone's recommending you have some tea and honey, honey.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, well, I asked for five cop drops. We had two available.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I'm almost done with that one. Oh boy. Okay. We'll see. We'll find. I just won't. I'll let you talk more. You talk more.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Sounds good. Anyway, so yes, this day, 21 years ago, I made my escape. And it's it is crazy to me. Like I was thinking about that day. And obviously I remember everything. Like it's a, you know, photographic. I can remember every single moment of every single second of that day in in full, you know, cinematic replay.
SPEAKER_05:Your uh your DVR was activated nonstop that day. Because you have to be head on a swivel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So you remember it. It wasn't just like going through the motions like you do every day. It was, this is scoptime, baby.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And but thinking about it over the, you know, yesterday and today, I was thinking, gosh, it's so crazy, despite everything I went through, that in that moment of escaping, which anybody in the real world would be like, holy crap, why did you wait so long? Or, you know, whatever. And obviously the answers to that, anyone who knows the history of Scientology and the consequences, like losing my entire family and never being able to speak to them ever again, which happened. Um, all of that, you understand the how leveraged and controlled I was. But in in the instant, it was like, oh my God, I'm doing a bad thing.
SPEAKER_05:Totally. I mean, to be fair, months after we had escaped, you were still trying to kind of play nice with them and make it so we wouldn't get in trouble. I knew I and I told you this many times. Yeah. There is a policy that L. Ron Hubbard wrote that basically says, no matter what somebody has done, we we always will we we will always allow ourselves to scam them in the future. We'll leave the door just a crack open. So that if they want to give us some more money, we'll let them back in. We they gotta do a jump through a lot of hoops to get back to that spot. But the door is never completely closed for anyone. Aaron Ross Powell Right.
SPEAKER_01:You keep it a crack open.
SPEAKER_05:Keep it in a crack open so they can come back in if they want.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:And that's that policy. Then there's a policy which is called an advice for the international headquarters.
SPEAKER_01:And it says if someone Scientologists do not know about it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's a it's a policy that it only is available to certain people that work at the international headquarters. Not even most of the people at the headquarters are allowed to see this document.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_05:It's mainly like RTC and CMO int. And maybe if you have access, if you're a big golden air products executive, you might have access to some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I've seen the policy.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, I have too.
SPEAKER_05:The policy says that if someone escapes from the international headquarters, that the door is to be welded shut with an atomic branding iron. That's what it says. Yep. So if Scientology are following their own policy, the second we GTFO'd, that's it. It's done.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Which you you brought up to me when I uh figured out how to ill il illegally contact you after you left me behind.
SPEAKER_05:And that is actually the reason why I left without you.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Is because I truly did think that being born in Scientology and growing up your entire life in Scientology and your entire family, direct family being in Scientology, I 100% thought she didn't come home. I'm getting out of here right now. This is my I gotta this is it. It's now or never.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And you to be fair, you were gonna going to be sent to the rehabilitation project force in Los Angeles, and we would never have been together ever again.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. Either way. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So I understand that now in retrospect.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So but then I say, so then you call me, I go, hey, listen, you know, if you come with me now, that's it. That ship is sailed.
SPEAKER_01:Like right. And this was after you'd escaped.
SPEAKER_05:After I'd escaped and while you were still there.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:And I told you, I said, if you do this, you will never see your family ever again.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And I was in the hole at this time, by the way.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So similar to this kid, his emailing us. It's just like, dude, you there's gonna be this is a pivotal point in your life. Right. If you're dedicated to Scientology and you think it's as the answer, your life will be ruined if you you keep up the track. You're right.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And that's why I wanted to be respectful of that. Like we're we never try to change somebody's mind about Scientology. Um but if somebody wakes up and starts asking questions, then we're there all in. But we're not we're not like, you know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, we'll tell you everything you want to know.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_05:But but you really want to know? That's great.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's Pandora's box. Once you open that box, there's no going back.
SPEAKER_05:When we do interviews with these uh documentaries and TV shows, they come with, say, twenty good questions. And they leave with about 200 good questions.
SPEAKER_01:Right, exactly. So everyone Which is what happened with Lawrence Wright, by the way. Exactly. He did that article for the New Yorker.
SPEAKER_05:The apostate.
SPEAKER_01:Um about Paul Haggis way before. And then it was it was exactly like that. He had 20 questions, he did that whole article, and then he left with 200 questions that then resulted in that book.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, which then resulted in 2,000 questions when they were doing the movie. You know. Yeah. Whenever these people because they think there's 20 really crazy things that they know about. Right. And it's like, no man, there's 200 crazy, 200,000 crazy things that you don't know about.
SPEAKER_00:Oh gosh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It'll go on forever. And because we and we only have it from the int base perspective for the most part. You have a little in England and I know, but I'm just saying we it's only two little pockets of Scientology, really. And there's a thousand pockets.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. For sure. For sure. Yeah, and that's where, you know, I'm all about educating the public in general on the dangers of Scientology to stop people from getting in. Um but I'm also well aware of the dangers uh and the risk if you're already in. And, you know, like losing your entire family is not a small price to pay. It's huge. And, you know, yes, people in in the real world, you have fa family dynamics and you don't maybe don't necessarily have the greatest relationship or this, that, or the other thing. But to have a situation where an organization imposes never speaking to your family ever again is outrageous.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and that's also why I don't really have it's hard to have a beef with the C org members, like just to run in the C org members. Completely or Scientologists or staff members, because they're all part of this con. They don't know. They don't they're not like, oh, I'm getting scammed. Great.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:I love this. Right. Or I'm working really hard for no reason whatsoever. Like this is a giant waste of everybody's time.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:So they're the vic they're victims too. So you can educate them, but I really don't think it's productive to be antagonistic to them because that's what Hubbard says. Somebody who is evil and somebody who wants you to you to do bad and for you to fail, those people are antagonistic in nature. And so as soon as somebody's antagonistic, they recognize that and they just go, oh, and they put you in that box of, oh, you're an SP and you're evil.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So any information you have. Yeah, it's like the walls come down and they stop receiving input.
SPEAKER_05:Because that's what they're programmed to do.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. When we've been there, like I can remember seeing protesters at at the property.
SPEAKER_05:We're like, what lamo's?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, it was literally like Well, I I don't know that I thought lamo's. No, no. I just thought like, oh, those are bad people.
SPEAKER_05:No, no, it would ruin our day. We'd have to stay inside one.
SPEAKER_01:Hiding under the tables.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. With the blinds drawn. Everybody's sitting on the floor in their offices. And you're just like, this is so.
SPEAKER_01:We can't even go to go go to eat a meal.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. These guys are 2,000 yards down the highway. Why am I sitting in my office on the floor with the blinds drawn?
SPEAKER_01:Right. Like that was it it is, it's crazy how many iterations of thought-stopping, you know, practices and procedures were in place. But again, that's in retrospect. We're we're looking, reflecting back on it, and just realizing like, oh, those things made the the outside world seem dangerous.
SPEAKER_05:Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, but also it was just like we weren't thinking what are they saying and what are their signs saying. We're thinking we get an uh an email or a call, or even it would be announced at Muster. And this is crazy too. There would be times where a protest was going to happen at the end base, not announced. No one knows it. This is a secret pop protest that's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:And at Lunch Muster, we would be told, hey, there's gonna be some protesters coming here in two hours because their one of their people on the interwebs was part of the protesters. Trevor Burrus, Jr. So they would just tell them everything that was going on. And so they'd already plan for the protest and engineer a way to jack up the protesters because they they knew that this was going to happen for a week. So they could put every all these things in place and make booby traps for the protesters. And then get the protesters arrested or get the protesters uh um charged with a crime or any of these things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And so it was always just like these guys are really just wasting their time. Because Scientology's already literally knows all everything they know about this protest. Every person, their background, where they work, who their kids are, everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yep, exactly. Um, crazy, crazy. Thanks for uh hanging in there with your voice, honey.
SPEAKER_05:I know, I was just at the tail end, it's all this talking.
SPEAKER_01:I could tell, I know. It's like, hey, for once, he's gonna let me dominate the conversation.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but I do love this subject because there's a lot, you know, that with this Amir kit. And so I I was I've been and I've we haven't done this in a few weeks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I think two weeks ago we did a video. Yeah, three weeks ago, two weeks ago. But then um when this kid emailed me, I really started thinking about this and I was like, this is this is just uh it's silly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I I thought about it too, because he emailed me and then he emailed you. And um anyway, you know, I I have nothing but respect for him. Uh I just again, you know, you have to go like the amount of times people have tried to He's a babe in the woods right now. Yeah. Exactly. And and questioning someone's intentions is definitely something to ponder before reacting and responding.
SPEAKER_05:I really don't think like uh you know, some people might think, oh, he's Osa. He's gonna be a spy, or he's gonna I don't think that and and frankly not I mean not out in the open like that, not so overtly like hey, I want to talk about and also he seemed very honest and very uh straightforward in the interview you did with Alex. He wasn't very cagey, he was just being completely natural.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Which that was the thing that I was like, oh, this kid has no idea what he's he's doing right now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And that's more where I'm like, you know, hey, let's let's just understand. If your goal is to sit stay in Scientology, this is a bad idea.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:This is gonna you're gonna be famously, you're gonna be famously stupid within the Scientology community.
SPEAKER_01:And they will be sad, because it's not stupid.
SPEAKER_05:Like, they'll also use him as an example to make sure, like, hey, that's what that kid, there was a kid in uh this guy in uh Florida, Tampa uh Tampa Brad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:The guy who has this home company, and he would do these really dumb videos on Scientology.
SPEAKER_01:Like, you know, Oh, he's the guy with the OnlyFans account?
SPEAKER_05:Uh that was his wife's account, I think. I don't know why. I don't know the ins and outs of the phone.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, I set you off there. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05:Um I didn't know I don't know a bunch bunch about this OnlyFans stuff, but I don't know anything about OnlyFans.
SPEAKER_01:I've just, you know, in this day and age.
SPEAKER_05:But that that guy had an account with, but that that guy had an account, I was like, the bar is pretty low on this OnlyFans stuff. This is like, this is not your uh this is not top level pro stuff here. This is like yikes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway, um it's the same thing. He was doing that. Yeah. And like six months later, he disappeared. He still does videos, I'm sure, but he ain't talking about Scientology the way he was before. No, and now he just is like, I went to this Grant Cardone seminar and it was amazing, or something, you know, something like that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But he's not gonna get into explaining when people explain Scientology, Scientology gets super, super pissed. Like No, no, El Ron Hubbard's already explained it. You just need to go read it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:You don't need to be doing an explaining.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:That's that's been done. Do it or don't do it, but don't kind of what are they? It's called squirreling. You're basically interpreting and explaining it when people would just go and read it or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Yes, exactly. Anyway, um should we get to some questions?
SPEAKER_05:You want to do questions?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure. Let's do that. I I kind of lost my train of thought.
SPEAKER_05:So I'm sure the questions will reorient me to uh somebody said Mark Lost did on the OnlyFans question.
unknown:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's Catherine. Yes. Thanks for being here, Catherine. Thank you, Clara, for being here. We appreciate our mods and everything that you do. Yes, for sure. Absolutely. And by the way, go Broncos.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, yeah, tomorrow. That's why we're doing this on Saturday, by the way. It's completely Claire's like we gots to get ready for the Broncos.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we can't be having any distractions. We need to laser focus. It's been a rough week in Bronco Country with Bonex injury.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, Titty's Titty City. Titty City.
SPEAKER_01:Wait, what?
SPEAKER_04:Stitty City.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, Tid D.
SPEAKER_04:Tidd D. Stiddy. Stitty City. Stiddy. Okay, that's our new sharp turn. Stitty's our new quarterback. Yes. Steady City. Yes. I left out the S.
SPEAKER_01:Of course you did. All right. Let's let's get back to uh laser focus.
SPEAKER_05:Not a bad alternative to Steady City. Okay. I'm just saying. It's not gonna, it's not gonna call.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my goodness. What happened? All right. Okay, are you gonna pull up the questions or whatever?
SPEAKER_05:Go Seahawks, what a media.
SPEAKER_01:We just had a declare. Go Seahawks. Sorry, Headlees. That's okay. It's all good.
SPEAKER_04:It's just Oh, we got some super chats.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, nice. Jacob. Jacob, hope you enjoy an adult beverage of your choice for your 21st. Yay! Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:The first time I ever let's not pretend you haven't had a few drinks since your before your 21st, if that's we're gonna play this whole game.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, no, but I was just gonna say I very definitively remember the first time I ever had an excessive amount of adult beverages.
SPEAKER_05:Oh well, we all remember that, babe. It's well documented.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, uh how old was I then? I think I was thirty-two, thirty-three. Because I I had somewhere in there. I had I had had one alcoholic beverage at a beer and cheese party that I distinctly remember with Heidi Staly. Um I had one at the International Headquarters. I'd had one alcoholic beverage my entire life up to the age of 32.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but the best part was that we it was at a birthday party and it was Tokyo Delves. Tokyo, Tokyo Delves in North North Hollywood. And you would do a sake bomb every 15 minutes for the bigger.
SPEAKER_01:And by the way, when we walked into that restaurant, A, I'd never been drunk, B, I'd never had sake, C, this was a unique dining experience. Let's just put it that way. Like 200 people would get walked in. It's a two-hour dining slot. And so you all go into your places, and this was a birthday party of a friend of ours. And yes, the entire room every 15 minutes is like sake bum, sake bum. And I was like, oh my goodness. I didn't, I'd never tasted sake. I don't think I'd even had uh, I mean, maybe I'd had a beer, you know, whatever. But the sake bomb goes into the beer and you glug it. And after two of those, I went to the bathroom and I was like sitting in the bathroom going, I don't know, I may never see Mark again.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, I don't know where I am. I have no idea how to get back to my table. Uh this was um it was a very memorable moment. Anyhow, you know, not the smartest choice, but you know, hey, life is about experiencing and learning tough lessons, right?
SPEAKER_05:She literally swam back to the table through the restaurant. Like she was swimming through the air to find her way back. And we were like, where's Claire been? And then somebody's like, she's swimming over to us right now. I know, and meanwhile, I had just been sobbing in the bathroom, like, I don't know how I'm gonna find Mark ever again.
SPEAKER_01:I went through all this.
SPEAKER_05:What a maniac. Okay, great question there, Jacob.
SPEAKER_01:Great, great, thank you, Jacob. I will, I appreciate it. But see, I'm hungered down with my sons and grandkids for the winter storm, so I'll catch up on replay. But wanted to say had him happy freed anniversary, Claire. Yes, I know. Best day of my life, best ever. So, and I um I'm so glad that everything worked out as it did. It was a very scary day.
SPEAKER_05:And there was a lot of actually just realized so my book starts with my escape and it ends with your escape.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And um, and you'll cover your this whole thing in your book from your perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, exactly. And I was I was hoping to have my book out by on this day. That didn't happen, but it will definitely be this year. So stay posted, stay tuned. Uh you can sign up for uh news and updates at blownforgood.com or at clareheadley.com. So anyway, it's a work in progress. It's been a lot. So but it's coming along really, really well. I think I made six thousand words this past week. So getting there, yeah, for sure. Okay, let's jam through these. Karina six seven, Karen or Karen A six seven. Karen from Elk Grove, California. 6'7. Happy escape anniversary, Claire. I can feel our kids rolling their eyes out.
SPEAKER_05:I know our kids hate it when we do that to them, which is the best part of doing it. 6'7. They're like, how many more minutes? I don't know. Six seven.
SPEAKER_01:Tammy, Mimi 65, and I'm so glad you did escape. I know, me too. Like I ever every single day of my life, from that, from this day 21 years ago, I have been grateful for challenges and all. It's all worth it. Anita, love that for you, Claire. Thank you so much. December Topaz, happy escape versary. Yes. Betsy Sue, greetings. Thank you for being here. Mary Kay, congratulations, Claire. So glad you got away from that damn cult. I know. You and me both. Harvey Denton's Denton's Toads, Happy Freedom Day, Claire. Thank you so much, Harvey. Appreciate it. Question. What do you think would have happened had you stayed there? Yeah, or had I been kidnapped and taken back from the Las Vegas bus station, as was a very likely possibility of having.
SPEAKER_05:What do they call it? Re they call it something.
SPEAKER_01:Reprogramming?
SPEAKER_05:No, no, when you get somebody.
SPEAKER_01:Recapture?
SPEAKER_05:Well, recapture, but they had a name for it in there. Recovered.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, recovered.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, recovery.
SPEAKER_01:AKA kidnapped.
SPEAKER_05:That's actually somebody's stat. Blows and recoveries, right? That's the stat. Blows and recoveries.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:If your blows is 10 and your recoveries is eight, it's pretty good. But if your blows are 10 and your recoveries are zero, not so good.
SPEAKER_01:Not so good at all. Yeah, I think it's like that.
SPEAKER_05:Whose stat is that? Is it in Department 3 in ethics? Um blows and recoveries. I think it's security. Security blows and recoveries.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I totally forgot about that.
SPEAKER_01:I know, I did too. But yeah. So rec and it's isn't it weird? Like recover is usually a positive term.
SPEAKER_05:Well, yeah, that's what they're saying.
SPEAKER_01:We hey, you tried to escape, but in that context, it's like, oh, we kidnapped them and brought them back.
SPEAKER_05:They were recovered.
SPEAKER_01:It's just the same way that blow or escape is usually has a positive connotation because you're getting away from a bad situation.
SPEAKER_05:But blow is usually away from the situation.
SPEAKER_01:You've caused this situation. It's all your fault. And now you're, you know, dramatizing your bank.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Oh, what did you say if you what did the question was, what what if you stayed there?
SPEAKER_01:Oh God. Yeah. No, that would have been a complete and utter disaster. Because unfortunately, I I mean, I never would have seen you again.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, 100%.
SPEAKER_01:And I never would have seen my family again either. Like I would have been restricted to the property for at least four or five years if if not longer. Um especially because I and like even in the time from when you escaped to when I escaped, um, I had had conversations with Larice Stuckenbrock, Dav David Miscavige's communicator, and Shelley Miscavige, um that oh, maybe it was an injustice that I was kicked out of Religious Technology Center because I refused to divorce you. Um so in other words, I might have ended up back in Religious Technology Center, and thank God that never happened.
SPEAKER_05:Well, if you think about it, the reason you got kicked out of RTC after many, many, many years. After eight years. After eight years was just because of me.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:So if I'm now gone and you let me go, then it's like, well, he's gone now, so she should just come right back.
SPEAKER_01:And meanwhile, all I kept thinking in my head was the conversations I'd had with Shelly Miscavige, where she said, When you're in Religious Technology Center, you have forg foregone your right to escape. So basically, to me, that meant, and is something I had witnessed personally, like, no matter if I tried to escape, they would recapture me and take me back. So then when I was kicked out of RTC, Religious Technology Center, I was like, well, now all bets are off. Like hey, I can I can GTFO and they won't they won't bring me back. The excuse of why you could have gone back to RC RTC was also the reason why I would I should be able to successfully escape.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I could make my I mean it's it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_05:All of it is ridiculous, but either way, it's uh You know the funny thing was when you now that you say that is basically there was I think I want to say ten people that were in RTC that were married to people that were either in CMO Int or Golden Era Productions. Yep. And all of those people were forced to divorce their spouse. But there was one person in RTC, Barbara Griffin, and she was the Treasury Secretary.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and she was married to Jay Griffin, who was in security seconds.
SPEAKER_05:She's and she basically told Dave Miscavige, uh-uh, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:You're right.
SPEAKER_05:I'm staying married and I'm not going anywhere, and you can suck it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And she she had been in the C organization for decades. She'd been in RTC, I think, from the very beginning, even before David Miscavige took over.
SPEAKER_05:So she knew where all the things. If the money went through Religious Technology Center, she knew about it. Yeah, which is funny. That's why I was thinking like she did that. And she was not, I mean, this woman was in her sixties, I want to say at least. Yeah. She she had been in the Sea Work for over 20 years, easily. Yeah. But she didn't put up with a lot of that nonsense. When people were when everybody it was mandatory for everybody to do something, I want to say half the time, she was just like, I'm not doing that, and I don't give a shit.
SPEAKER_01:Everybody knew that she was, as as they call it in Scientology, disaffected. Completely disaffected. In fact, in 2003, I want to say, when they when David Miscavige ordered the whole first round of um rounding up all the elderly people, putting and getting them off the property and sending them back to wherever they came from, she was outraged by this. She called it the bum's rush. That was her words, not mine. She was like, this is she was really angry about it. And understandably so, because it was very, very abusive to elderly people.
SPEAKER_05:And it happened over like a a week period. They literally were like, make a list of the old people, which ones are we keeping, which ones are we getting rid of? And it had to do with where are they going?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and it had to do with a few different things, but primarily that um David Miscavige did not want any person um dying on that property or have any any close association to him. So it was about protecting him.
SPEAKER_05:But it was also so that local authorities would not be able to access the property and witness or see something that that would spark some sort of investigation. And also in the manner or the uh condition that the person was in when they passed away. Right. It would be like, oh, this person had cancer for 10 years. You he's never even been to the doctor or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:And you never notified their family and they never had had any contact with their family up until the day they passed. I mean, it's really these are the actual tragedies of the C organization for sure.
SPEAKER_05:So but either way, when that whole thing happened, there were certain people that would play the game, and certain people will be like, hey dude, you want to push this? You want to make you want to make me divorce my husband of 30 years over some nonsense that you're you're pulling right now?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It's gonna be problematic for you.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And speaking of which, it's ironic, but it it's you remind me. So there was there was a whole list of people in Religious Technology Center in September 2004 that were forced to uh they were either kicked out of Religious Technology Center or they were forced to divorce. The people that stayed in RTC that were forced to divorce was Carol Burke, who had to divorce Thomas Burke.
SPEAKER_05:Who was in Golden Air Productions. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Darnell Bloomberg divorced David Bloomberg.
SPEAKER_05:He was in CMO Int.
SPEAKER_01:Lucia Radstrom divorced Jesse Radstrom.
SPEAKER_05:He was in Goldenair Productions.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Um I think Fleur Thomas had already divorced John Thomas by that time.
SPEAKER_05:He was in Golden Air Productions. It worked for me when he went to uh when he got assigned to me.
SPEAKER_01:Antonella Teasey had already divorced Panuccio Tizi by that time.
SPEAKER_05:He was in Golden Air Productions.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Um who else? Um and then there were a bunch of us who ended up getting kicked out because like I like me.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Um who was the other person? There was two other people that got kicked out too, I thought.
SPEAKER_01:There was a there was about 15 people because AVC author authorized verification correction was a division in Religious Technology Center, and it was literally lifted out and sent down to the hole. Uh so that was like 12 staff, I want to say. Um anyhow, but the but the craziest thing is, and that's what reminded me, so we in during our lawsuit, which was 2009 until 2012, um, that this was part of my deposition. And then we heard, I think from John Brusseau when he escaped that all of those people who were forced to divorce, it was canceled. Yes. So all of a sudden Warren and Warren McShane was the one we heard about. Darnell Bloom uh Warren McShane, oh Warren McShane. Yes, exactly. Warren McShane and Marcy McShane. They they got back together again. It's like, oh my God, it's so weird and creepy.
SPEAKER_05:Because we were telling everybody that he made everybody divorce.
SPEAKER_01:And he was sitting in the room. Warren McShane was in the room during my deposition.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but then they were made to remarry. Some of those people were like, Good job, I finally got rid of this guy.
SPEAKER_01:We don't know that. We do know this.
SPEAKER_05:And then they were like, No, we're getting back together. But the best part was some of those people did not get back together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:It was just like, no, I'm good.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_05:Which is crazy.
SPEAKER_01:It is crazy. Okay. Um, hello from Nebraska. Got out a few months before you guys. Yes, we remember that moment incredibly well. So grateful you got out. Sherry, congrats, Claire. Greetings from a frosty western Minnesota. Thank you so much. Patrina, happy Freedom Day, Claire. 21 years. What a day to be alive. I know. Absolutely grateful. Pudelbone, hello from New York City. Thanks for joining us. Clara, hey everyone, happy Saturday. Yes, Becky, big brother fan. Congratulations, dear Claire, on this joyous anniversary. Yes, joyous indeed. Manon, good evening from the Netherlands. Awesome. ACMM 66. Hi from Sweden. Mary Kay, hi from Rainy Albuquerque. There we go. December Topaz 22. Hi from West Virginia. Anita, another duchy here. Nice. That's awesome. Chilled granny. Hi from very chilly Minnesota. Nice. Good to see you here. Thank you for joining us. Jensen Pete, happy anniversary. Thank you. Olga Alice, congrats on your 21st year of freedom from the cult. Yes, I know. Definitely one of the most significant anniversaries of my life, I think it's fair to say.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, absolutely, babe.
SPEAKER_01:Tracy, howdy from Wyoming. Buffy Lynn, question Do you still use Walmart for optical care? No, Sam's Club. It's basically another brand of the same thing, right? Same thing.
SPEAKER_05:It really is the same thing. You know which we shouldn't bring this up. I don't know if we've talked about this at all.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:When I was in the Sea Org, I had glasses.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes. Yes. You had glasses the whole time.
SPEAKER_05:The whole time. We were married.
SPEAKER_01:I when we got together, you had glasses. And then a couple of years into our or a year or two into our marriage, you switched to contacts.
SPEAKER_05:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:But I had glasses the whole time.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So then when I leave in 2005, my prescription, whatever it was, it went basically in half. So whatever the the numerical values of the my eyesight that was bad, it reduced by half.
SPEAKER_01:Right, which happened by accident because you broke your glasses.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then you went to get replacement glasses, and the optician was like, There's no way these these are your glasses. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Double your prescription.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So then I So then that's that. But I my eyes were still a little bit not, they were just a little not bad or not good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Like I could see really far away, amazing. Yep. But up close, sometimes I would have to squint.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. So then we we get LASIK. We both ended up getting LASIK because you had eye issues as well. So did I. Okay. And that was.
SPEAKER_01:Which according to L. Ron Hubbard is because we have overts and withholds.
SPEAKER_05:That's right. So this is my whole point. When I was in the Sea Org, I had bad eyesight. When I left the Sea Org, I got better eyesight.
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_05:And then this is the craziest part of all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Within, you know, we got LASIK years and years and years ago.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was like, you got it in 2007 and I got it in 2009. I was I was terrified of doing that. It was like you were like, it's gonna be the best thing ever. I'm like, no, I can't do it.
SPEAKER_05:Anyway. Probably about five, six years ago. I can't see up close again. Right. The LASIK basically wore off, or however it works. I'm not a scientist, I don't know what that.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not a scientist.
SPEAKER_05:But listen.
SPEAKER_01:Are you sure?
SPEAKER_05:I had to get readers.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And my readers were about two and a half, whatever, whatever that means.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, two point five oh, one point seven five.
SPEAKER_05:I think I was up to two point five at the end.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. And you guys would see me actually when we we started doing your well, we would both wear glasses. Yeah, but for you, but you have contacts.
SPEAKER_01:I just have stronger contacts now.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Okay. We don't know what happened. But about three months ago.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we know what happened.
SPEAKER_05:Well, hold on.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_05:We think we know what happened.
SPEAKER_01:I d I know what happened.
SPEAKER_05:Three weeks, three months ago, I stopped needing glasses at all. My eyes are amazing up front and they're amazing far away. And I don't need readers. I haven't used readers. I don't need readers. I can see amazing, tiny, tiny little text. You know, you go to the restaurant and those menus are in like microscopic chip print.
SPEAKER_01:I remember we would be sitting at the restaurant, and if it was dim lighting, we'd like turn on old flashlights. We would get old people. Oh, I can't read it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, you know you're old when you got a flashlight and a phone. You got it zoomed in on the menu.
SPEAKER_01:Or the other thing I would do is take a picture of it and then zoom in on the picture. Ridiculous.
SPEAKER_05:Our kids are like, do you when we ever we go out to eat and we invite the kids, they're like, no, we're not coming. Do your own thing. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:We think it's because I've been sleeping.
SPEAKER_01:We know it's because you've been sleeping, because that's the common common denominator.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly, on both accounts. Not sleeping all day and night in the Sea Org, and then starting to sleep more.
SPEAKER_01:And then having some insomnia and then addressing that and starting to sleep again, and all of a sudden, voila.
SPEAKER_05:So fixed. Basically, in Scientology Lingo, my overts are gone. Because I can see perfect now.
SPEAKER_01:Or in Scientology Lingo, overts and withholds for bad eyesight is a wrong why.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Guess what? I still did all the shit I did, and I my eyes are fine. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:All right. How are we doing here?
SPEAKER_05:We're great. We got like a few minutes left in the end.
SPEAKER_01:See you right. Happy Freedom Day from freezing Austin, Texas. Well, thank you for joining us here today. We appreciate it. Angel Cat, hi there from Sunland, California. Awesome. You, Simon 1000. Happy 21st anniversary, Claire. And hi, Mark, from your formerhood of Lee Summit, Missouri. Yo, yo, yo.
SPEAKER_05:Yo, yo. Shout out Pizza Shop.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, happy memories there. Catherine Olson, I contacted Mark for the first time on June 6th, anniversary of the free wins. There you go.
SPEAKER_04:Maiden Voyage.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Cole Trickle now controls matter, energy, space, and time. Does he still have to do Scientology or does Scientology now have to do him? Is auditing still required or does he just run and jump?
SPEAKER_05:Cole Trickle is uh Tom Cruise's character in Days of Thunder.
SPEAKER_01:Oh. So I think it's a good thing. I don't know that I ever watched Days of Thunder.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. It's not a required uh requirement for anything that we have to do. I think Tom, you know what's really weird, the Tom Cruise thing. And that's also another weird thing when we would talk to people when we first got out is that they would always be like, oh, when you were with Tom Cruise, and you're like, you know, the Tom Cruise and John Travolta and Lisa Marie, that's the least exciting of the craziness that goes on in Scientology. Like if you want to know about insane things that are happening, they're not usually connected to those guys. And also, they see what David Miscavige wants them to see. He's a piece of shit to both of them behind the scenes. Yeah. But he ne they he never lets them see that. I mean, he was spying on Tom Cruise the entire time.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I know. They were also spying on Lisa Marie Presley, rest in peace, um, and you know, whatever, any other significant person, and then also trying to draw new people in under false pretenses, using Tom Cruise, Lisa Marie, like Michael Jackson, trying to get Michael Jackson in Scientology, things like that.
SPEAKER_05:It's so crazy that they're they're like, if you want to stay in Scientology, you've got to get some more big celebrities in. But we love you, but we love you as much as you're getting people in. And then behind the scenes, Dave Miscavige is talking shit about all those guys, Vonnie and Master Thists. All these people that are like Ella Jenna Elfman, Bodie Elfman, all these guys is like, they don't do shit for Scientology. They suck. And then he starts commiserating with Tom Cruise about that. And then Tom's like, you know what? I'm gonna make them do shit.
SPEAKER_01:So it's like Yeah, like the one of the most surreal moments was hearing that, oh, Tom Cruise offered to come beat up the top management executives because they were out ethics, and he offered to give them a black eye on whatever else was appropriate to following the knowledge reports policy written by Elron Hubbard. Uh so yeah, allegedly Tom Cruise, according to David Miscavige, was willing to go do that.
SPEAKER_05:Well, that's the other thing. You don't always know what Dave is saying is his fucking creation.
SPEAKER_01:Allegedly.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So he has a meeting with us, he yells at us, he tells how we're all pieces of shit, suppressive persons, can't get anything he wants done, done.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_05:And then the next day we have a meeting. He goes, You know what? I was telling Tom what pieces of shit you were, and he offered to come up and kick your asses for me.
SPEAKER_01:Put your ethics in.
SPEAKER_05:Put your ethics in. And you're sitting in the meeting and you're going, Yeah, Tom Cruise is fucking stupid. He has no idea what you're doing up there. You were talking shit about it for two weeks.
SPEAKER_01:Hang in there, honey. You were talking about Wow. That was a good one. Anyway, yes. Crazy, crazy times. So um all right. Oh Laura. Hello, hello. Wasn't Nibbs the son of Hubbard that was auditing while on LSD? Hmm. I haven't heard that story, have you?
SPEAKER_05:I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Apart from my coughing.
SPEAKER_01:Mark says he's heard that.
SPEAKER_05:No, I've heard that I heard Hubbard did LSD. I heard Nip. There was. I mean, the there's interviews.
SPEAKER_01:Scientology is a study in do as I say, not as I do, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Hubbard. Hubbard told everybody not to do their drugs because he already did them all. And he was like, eh.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Anyway, I don't know about ni I don't know about nibs, but I I assume.
SPEAKER_01:I mean it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for the case.
SPEAKER_05:It was the 60s and the 70s.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:They were getting up to doing nonsense.
SPEAKER_01:Trevanon, hey, hey. But but communication is universal solvent. Yeah, exactly. Completely. I know.
SPEAKER_05:It's unless you're talking shit about Scientology.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Scientology is a study in thought-stopping nonsense. Anyway. Power lies to paralyze. Nice. I like that name. Most responsible answer anyone could give Amir. Fair game is real. Yeah, I know. That's that's a thing. Like, you know, I don't think I don't think his intentions are bad. Even if he were working for OSA, what's he gonna do? I'm I have nothing to hide.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but we're not gonna learn anything from us. And he's not gonna learn anything. We're not gonna learn anything from him. Yeah. And he's not gonna learn anything from us that's not gonna get him in huge trouble. If he reads my book or watches our videos, he's read your book. Okay, but if he even if he's watched the aftermath program, he's gonna find out a lot more than having an hour conversation with us.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'd be like, okay, listen, I'm I'm glad you read uh Mark's book. Go read Bareface Messiah by Russell Miller, Russell Miller, and then come back and let's have a conversation if you, you know, if you want to do that, it's all good. I'm all for that. Uh user, I'm so glad you escaped, Claire. You have said previously you were frail and extremely ill. It sounded like a literal escape to save your own life in the literal sense. Yes, exactly. I'm five seven and I had lost so much weight. I was I were buck five. No, I was less than a hundred pounds.
SPEAKER_05:Well, I remember when you were a buck five, and I was like, babe, that's a lot. You're like really getting it.
SPEAKER_01:Every single, every single rib was protruding, my spine was protruding. It was really bad. And I honestly thought I had cancer uh when I left. Um, and it turned out that was adrenal gland exhaustion. Um, anyway. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What's this about?
SPEAKER_01:Question Will there be a show for the aftermath channel? Oh, that's Foundation Feed. Yes. Uh my apologies. We will pick back up on Foundation Feed.
SPEAKER_05:Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_01:Between Christmas and, you know, January on my for my day job is the busiest month of my year. Um even with my amazing staff and so forth. That um we just have a very busy very, very full workload. But yes.
SPEAKER_05:Somehow I keep trying to do less work and we just keep doing more and more and more and more work.
SPEAKER_01:I know, which it which is fine. It's a great problem to have. But yes, we will pick back up on the show for the aftermath channel, and thank you for asking that. Petrina, question could Amir be being used by OSA and a new tactic against you guys? That's always a possibility. But again, again, it's very unusual. Um, I mean, hey, you know, the Scientology evolves as proven by their use of arbitration and lawsuits more recently, which hopefully one of these years will be ended. Um there's no operation, there's no thing's possible, but you have to say, like, well, what would be the point and what do they stand to gain? Um, because again, we're we're not doing anything. We have nothing to hide, literally nothing to hide. So what's the point?
SPEAKER_05:But OSA's not sending in a be they've been they've been basically battling us and discrediting us and talking shit about us for since 2005. So they're not gonna send in some just out of fresh out of college kid to crack the case.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_05:From from another country.
SPEAKER_01:And and by the way, we've been dealing with fair game now for 21 years. Yeah. So this ain't our first rodeo, and you know, yes, we we have learned some uh really important lessons during those years that have made us wiser and smarter, I think it's fair to say. And yes, uh in some regards, we're just more cautious. But you know, the fact remains, like, yeah, I mean, he he's like, I don't know, 20, 21. I I mean, he was he wasn't even born when we escaped.
SPEAKER_05:That's what I'm saying. That's it's not even to me, it's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, no disrespect to young people, absolutely no. No, no, it's just point. We have we have a kid's about to turn 20 and 18 and 13, you know? We're we're all about that. Anyhow, whatever.
SPEAKER_05:It's all good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Question. That day of the optometrist appointment, did you bail before or after the appointment? Did you ever fill that prescription?
SPEAKER_05:So I bailed before because the fact you went straight to the cab and went right by the doctor.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the fact is I had not run out of contact lenses. That was a lie. Uh, it was the only thing I could come up with that was a way that I could get approval to leave the property, even with a dedicated security person whose sole purpose was to prevent me from escaping. That was the only way. And I knew that if I couldn't get off that property, I would fail. Yeah. I I would fail. I would um anyway, it's crazy though, because I now I'm remembering too that one of my one of my strategies before I was able to contact you, I had all these like haywire ideas. Like one was that I've talked about before. I had memorized all the highways from Gilman Hot Springs, California to Missouri. And I was gonna go on my motorcycle during a blizzard. Yeah, even though I had no helmet and I had I it wasn't registered to drive on the road, and I was unaware that it went through the Rockies. But my whole thought was, oh, I know. How can I not be tracked? I can uh I'll like I was doing the calculations like how much would I need for gas? How much I mean I was so like painfully clueless.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I thought, well, you know, I I would not have money for a hotel, but hey, you know what? I got a great idea. Yeah, I can just buy a movie ticket and sleep in the back of the theater. Oh, right, because nobody's ever tried that before. Genius, like, oh my gosh, they're gonna kick you out of the theater, and then what? None of those things. I was like, oh yeah, I'll just sleep under the seat. I mean, I was small enough that I might have been undetected, but it's highly unlikely.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, even just driving 10 minutes in the in the in snow with that motorcycle. Yeah, 10 minutes you wouldn't be able to do.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_05:It's just like this is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01:It was nuts. Totally crazy. Absolutely. Anyway, good thing I didn't try that. Betsy Sue, Tampa Brad is still on YouTube doing a podcast covering Scientology called Don't Do Nothing. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_05:So in Scientology, they have these low-level kind of public campaigns that they do, like question what is it? Uh curious or they had a volunteer minister campaign. Something can be done about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. The wrong thing to do is nothing.
SPEAKER_05:The wrong thing to do is nothing. So that kind of thing, it's not a big deal, that thing. But when you start getting into overt motivator and you know, anything that has to do with auditing, that's like forbidden. So I don't I don't doubt that he's still doing that, but I don't also I don't think that Tampa Brad was directly communicating with SPs.
SPEAKER_01:No, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_05:So that's what I'm saying. He just talked about Scientology on YouTube. And you can see he disappeared for a long time, and then when he came back, it was super, super watered down stuff. So I'm just saying Tampa Brad is a low-level example of silly Scientologists up on out on out on the internet. It's also kind of crazy that when they do this, everybody's like punking them in the comments and stuff. So they have to turn off the comments off.
SPEAKER_01:I know. Yep, exactly. All right, apostate Alex in the house. The world is a better place with you on the side. Oh, same to you, Alex. Thank you. You escaped on Elrond Hubbard's death day. Wow, happy anniversary, Claire. I know, and I didn't even realize that until last year, actually. So that's crazy too. Olga Alice. So Shelly said escape. So she knew you were in a cult prison. Yeah, absolutely. In fact, um, there's a conversation that I had with Shelly Miscavige in um 2002 or 2003, where she said that someone who had been a close friend to her, whose name was Jan Sims, she Jan Sims had been a very close friend of Shelly. And Shelly told me Jan was the smart one. And that was a moment I will never forget. Because I was like, wait, what? And you know, you don't ask questions in Scientology, but anyway. Power lies to paralyze. Happy anniversary, Claire. Thank you so very much. I'm so grateful to be here. You all make the world a better place, and we're we're just anyway, there's not a day that goes by that I don't have to sometimes pinch myself and go, wow, like yes, we've lived through some crazy life experiences. We've worked very, very hard to build the life that we now have. But anyway. Jacob Harkey, Mark, didn't David Miscavige punch the glasses off of your face?
SPEAKER_05:He did. He did. He broke them actually. I think I had to get new glasses after that, too. You did because he he broke the frame and the lenses fell out.
SPEAKER_01:I I have two very distinct memories of you riding up to see me on your motorcycle late at night. I was in Religious Technology Center and like your shirt was ripped, you were crying, which you never cry. Uh like moments like that were like, what vortex have we landed in? I know. I was like crazy.
SPEAKER_05:I'm like, I'm about to beat some people. This is getting insane.
SPEAKER_01:I was just like, please, please, please don't. And I and I cringe in retrospect because I was like, let's just go take a walk.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. But I was just like, this is getting it's getting too much, and it ain't worth it, and I ain't putting up with any more people's bullshit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I was scared. Angel Cat, you two are the best. Well, thank you so much. That's very kind of you. Thank you for the super generous. Yes. Um Do overts and withholds explain LRH's teeth and halitosis. Perhaps that might be uh, or maybe it's the the illicit drugs and all that stuff, or just poor dental hygiene, could be that too. Yeah, good question.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, I think that's it.
SPEAKER_01:All right.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, here's one. Another one from FYT.
SPEAKER_01:Um was Dave jealous seeing Mark with Tom?
SPEAKER_05:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think he was just auditing me.
SPEAKER_05:That was not a that's not a big deal at all. Yeah, um, and he was auditing another guy too, the chief head of security. Kevin.
SPEAKER_01:Kevin Catano. Yes. Yeah, there you go. Um yeah, and also, too, that was in the early 90s, which was before David Miscavige and Tom Cruise were true BFFs, before the bromance began.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I don't know. I mean that that whole thing in 2000, when he was on and me, that was in the early nineties.
SPEAKER_01:Right. That's what isn't that what I said?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, but I'm saying they were by the 2004, they were thick as thieves.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So it was just like that. I was not I mean, even when he came when Dave came through and toured him in 2004 through all of the after he divorced Nicole. Yeah, yeah. But when he went, it was like, hey, make sure Mark is in this tour somewhere so that when he goes through, Tom will be like, oh hey, because it was like it was over ten years before that when he was auditing me.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_05:So now I when he audited me, I was just a pancake goosey. And then by this time I'm like, I think I was producer. I was producer, assistant producer.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:Or A V producer, whatever the fuck they called it then.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So I think we're good.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome.
SPEAKER_05:We went a little long.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's all good. I I appreciate everyone who showed up for this conversation. I figured, first of all, you know, we have normally been trying to do a live on Sundays. So I apologize for the interruption in our regular scheduled programming. Mark's Mark was out of town on a job, and plus it was like, hey, it's it's the anniversary, the day, and tomorrow is Broncos Day.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so it worked out, folks. Yeah, we're all good. Take it easy. Um we're gonna try to do more videos like this, and not we were doing like these kind of like structured, we're gonna do slides on everything, and we're gonna it's a very easy for us just to have a conversation. And this is kind of why we started it, just to talk about it. Yeah. And then if people have questions, then there might we might have a fun story or some crazy story that goes that answers that question. Right. It's m it's a it's just a little bit of an easier thing. And then we're not stressed out about the I mean you see all these computers. There's no team, there's no team on the other side of a glass or anything. You're looking at you're looking at BFG Productions right here, okay? So, and and then we got Clara and Catherine and Yes. You know, so we're trying to make this a little easier for everybody. And also, we are super, super busy.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:So it's hard for us to do a bunch of stuff during the week because we're jammed during the week.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I know, completely. And we have three kids and we have businesses and this is we know this is our this is our one hour a week side hustle, guys.
SPEAKER_05:Okay?
SPEAKER_01:I wouldn't even call it a side hustle. I would call it just like whatever. You know, we're dedicated to exposing Scientology. Hobby is not really the right word. A commitment.
SPEAKER_05:It's a one hour a week commitment for this to continue getting the word out. It doesn't include all the stuff we have to do for the aftermath during the week. That's a totally separate thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So we're trying to kind of that's our volunteer work.
SPEAKER_01:We're trying to do that. This is our work, our commitment. Yeah. And we're just doing our best. But you know what? Hey, 2026 is a new year.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So if there is something that you would like to see us cover or talk about or or do a dedicated episode on, yeah, drop a comment, let us know.
SPEAKER_05:Bleep but in the comments there. If we don't know unless you tell us, and we do read the comments.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we do.
SPEAKER_05:I know it's some people say don't read the comments, and then most of the time it's fine. Of course. Oh, and last but not least, oh my gosh, this is never gonna end.
SPEAKER_01:To a reminder coming up on March 11th, oh yeah, 2026 in Denver, Colorado. We have Comedy for a Cause at Comedy Works South in Denver. Yes. Um, a fundraiser for the Michael J. Render Aftermath Foundation.
SPEAKER_05:So link in the description.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and we have lots of uh news and announcements coming shortly on that. It is going to look like we will be able to live stream the event, which is amazing. So we're figuring out the details. Uh, you can sign up for email notifications at the aftermath foundation.org.
SPEAKER_05:Um and we'll we should ask people because this is a valid question that's coming up.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:And maybe we couldn't put a poll on the aftermath page.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_05:But we might charge a nominal fee for the live stream if you're not there at the event and you want to watch it just to cover costs. And also, it is a fundraiser.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So we're thinking of doing five, ten, fifteen, or twenty. So jam it in the comments. Uh just write the number if you think one of those is the b I mean, obviously, less is better for some people, but we're trying to raise money. So what do you think is a fair price if it was live streamed?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the tickets to attend the show are 20. Yeah. So my vote would be five. But if you feel differently, let us know. Um, and and also, too, we will have an online silent auction.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so if anyone out there has items that you'd like to donate, that would be absolutely amazing. We've already been able to round up a ton of great stuff. Um, so you know, in fact, in fact, uh, you don't even know this yet, but somebody donated an artisanal cracker basket that's gonna be called the cracker liquor basket.
SPEAKER_05:Nice. Woohoo.
SPEAKER_01:Uh if you don't know the backstory, we'll tell you that some other time. But I'm sure most of you do.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Anyway, um, yeah, it's gonna be very exciting. Yes, and we're trying to get some special, special guests. We are, we're definitely working on those things are yeah, our special people are specially busy. Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:The top of our list, but they are going to get help us get the word out too. So it's all good. All good.
SPEAKER_05:Awesome. Oh, look, Claire has got the inside track on this.
SPEAKER_01:Can confirm the items are epic. Yes, exactly. We're working on it, and um, we have we just have I'm grateful for the team continuing to grow at the Aftermath Foundation. We have a lot of great things happening, and this is going to be our best year ever.
SPEAKER_05:Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_05:And and I think the annual report or whatever filings you have to do, when does that go live? Like when everybody can see that.
SPEAKER_01:It gets filed by the end of this month.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so it populates through the IRS and all that, but it's coming up pretty good.
SPEAKER_05:I'm sure whoever the sleuths, the internet sleuths are that dig that up, they're gonna be like, oh yeah, they did find they did the G.
SPEAKER_01:We absolutely had our best year ever, not only in funding of programs in in every respect. So it's pretty pretty lots of promising activity and um more to come.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and also just so you guys know, this comedy works thing that we're doing, we've been planning this for a while, but this is sort of we're trying to take baby steps to do bigger and better things. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And eventually we're hoping that this type of event uh sorry, this type of event can be something that we can invite im really important people to to not only educate them on the work that we do, but also to um pursue causes of action against Scientology.
SPEAKER_05:Also, we want to do this every we want to start doing these every year. Yes. So that this is just a re oh, we're gonna do this. We gotta give March is when we do this. Yes. July is when we do this, and then it's gonna be like, oh man. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Okay. All right. Spin real, folks. We appreciate you. Yes, go Broncos.
SPEAKER_05:Until next time, guys. Bye. Bye. I got a Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu, Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book, Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, Kindle, and Audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast, and you can get that on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot until next time.
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