Empty Halls, Full Ledgers: How Scientology Still Brings In Cash - Secrets of Scientology #3

Step inside Scientology’s balance sheet and the picture changes fast: small, friendly intro courses up front, a steep climb of costly counseling and training behind the curtain, and one Florida powerhouse quietly bankrolling the whole machine. We break down how local orgs pitch low‑cost classes, enforce nightly study quotas, and celebrate tiny wins, even as their course rooms sit empty. Then we follow the cash to Clearwater, where Flag Land Base concentrates services, pressure, and status to pull in one to two million dollars a week, covering international management, massive events, and a constant burn of promo and mailings.

We unpack the franchise‑style setup that sends rent back to an “International Landlord,” the weekly finance policy that slices income into rigid buckets, and the pivot from service delivery to pure fundraising for buildings and the IAS war chest. You’ll hear how prepaid “up to Clear” packages become a revenue trap, why commissioned recruiters have powerful incentives to push harder, and how the 1996 Golden Age rollout coincided with deep declines across key stats. We also compare glossy claims of “unprecedented expansion” with a striking data point: an ideal org’s two‑month completion list that could fit at a single table.

The human story runs just as deep. We revisit Heber Jentzsch’s final years, allegations of isolation at the international base, and a death certificate listing “Golden Era Homes-Hospice” at the very address of the Hole—raising urgent questions about elder care, licensing, and transparency. Along the way, we talk Sea Org labor at Flag, foreign recruitment, and the day‑to‑day grind that keeps the flagship humming while local orgs scrape by.

If you value clear, sourced, and candid reporting on high‑control organizations, hit follow, share this episode with a friend, and leave a review with the one question you want answered next. Your support helps more people find these stories and make informed choices.

Transcript

What Scientology Sells And How

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to another episode of Blown for Good, Scientology Exposed. I am joined today by my lovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Hey, hey, hey. Thanks for joining us this fine Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

We have a uh we have a great show for you today. Um today we're gonna talk about Scientology and how they make money on actual doing Scientology stuff. A lot of people wonder like, if they have uh lowering membership and all these other things, they can't get people into their organizations, then how are they still making money?

SPEAKER_05 1:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

And um in most Scientology organizations, they deliver, like in a majority, that let's say they have 250 organizations worldwide. That's in every country, every state of the United States, wherever they have organizations that do Scientology counseling or Scientology courses. You can do like they have a whole bunch of introductory courses that are probably like a few hundred bucks each. And then they have like courses where you learn how to do the counseling. And and the introductory courses, almost all of them could be done in like a day or two.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

And it's just 150 bucks or a hundred bucks or whatever it is. I don't know what it they're they're different prices for different ones, but they're it was in that ballpark when we were there.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

And then also since we got out, they added um they made a a much bigger program out of extension courses to go with all the books. Those are also um pretty, you know, low-cost uh introductory things that you can do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Um and in a lot of cases, somebody could come in and do one of those introductory courses and then leave Scientology and never come back ever again. They go like, oh, this is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I'm not gonna do this.

SPEAKER_05 2:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Okay, so they've got the introductory courses and then they've got these courses where you learn how to study the student hat. They have a course where you learn how to be a Scientologist and you read a little bit a bit about this, you get somebody to buy a Dianetics book, you do some introductory counseling on somebody. Excuse me. That's called the HQS, the Hubbard Qualified Scientologist course. And that course could take you if you oh, that's the other thing. When you go to a Scientology organization and you do courses, you go for two and a half hours a day.

SPEAKER_05 3:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

So like set let's say you work nine to five, you get off work, you eat dinner, you show up at the organization at like seven o'clock, I think is when study time starts at a regular organization.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yes, seven to nine thirty. So so because any civilian Scientologist during the time that they're enrolled on a course in Scientology are required to do a minimum of twelve and a half hours study per week.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Aaron Powell That's right. So if you go five days, two and a half hours, that's that's where you get your 12 and a half hours.

SPEAKER_05 3:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

So if somebody is at an organization and they're doing these courses, they're basically studying little over 12 hours a week. And in 12 hours, you could easily do one or two of those extension courses.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

And it might take you might take you a few weeks to do like one of these bigger courses, like the HQS or the student hat, or those courses might take you longer.

SPEAKER_05 4:04

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And then um then when you learn how when you're learning how to do the counseling, that's called grade zero, grade one, grade two, and so on and so forth. And those courses could take a month or two if you're just going two and a half hours a day. It could take you a few months to get through one of these counseling courses.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

What are you smiling about? What's going on over here?

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Trev says I should do a clay demo of my on-off switch. Apparently, my audio is not working.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

What? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

Oh dear. I'll pass on the clay demo. Not gonna have oh, there we go. That's much better. Please confirm it. Clara says yes. Gonna hopefully we didn't just blow the ears out with uh Oh jeez. Sorry, that was some inside humor for us, courtesy of Trevenon.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Anyway, sorry about that, guys. Well, at least you could have said something and I could have fixed it way earlier. Snickering over there.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Well, you you got the message. It clearly worked. You you picked up what I was putting out.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

I know, because I'm trying to have a conversation here and you just keep smiling weird at me.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

That's what I get for taking a week off, folks. A bunch of nonsense.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Okay. Anyway.

Course Schedules, Grades, And Pricing

SPEAKER_00 5:21

So if if you are running a Scientology organization and you're trying to make money, you got to get people through these courses as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yes. Um, and Because also the statistics are not based on um, you know, I mean, yes, there's bodies in the shop, which is the, you know, that's one statistic, but the statistic for the main production areas of the organization.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Like how you just skipped over that. There is an actual statistic in Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Bodies.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Which is called bodies in the shop, which just means just warm people in your organization.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Aaron Powell Yeah, it's called BIS, not to be confused with BIs, by the way, which is bad indicators. I mean, they're talk about getting your acronyms in a twist.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Anyway, so the idea is that you've got to do a lot of training and a lot of counseling to make money as a Scientology organization. And the way, let's just say the organization makes $100,000 in a week. The way Hubbard's finance policy is laid out is that money is basically all accounted for when it comes in. A certain percentage goes to this. They have a thing that's called FP number one, financial planning number one. And part of their FP number one is they have like a preset amount of what allocations to certain things we should do as a general rule. Oh my God, with the smiling. Now what?

unknown 6:50

Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

I'm just enjoying the chat for today. Okay. We're talking about B I S, B I's, and then someone says not to be confused with B S. Sorry, my bad. I'll stay focused, honey. Sorry to distract you there.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Okay. Anyway, it's gonna take them forever to get through this, guys, if we keep having to interrupt every one minute.

SPEAKER_05 7:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Um anyway. So you're making money, you make $100,000 as a Scientology organization. There they have preset amounts that have to go to cover certain things. We like we gotta pay electricity, we gotta pay the heat bill, you gotta pay the water bill, the utilities. If they have internet, you gotta pay internet, you gotta pay phones.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

You gotta spend all the money on the promo and marketing materials to bomb people with mail, uh, which is one of the most common questions we get is how to get off those mailing lists because they send stacks and stacks and stacks of mail out.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. So they have all these preset things. And then they also have to give a certain amount of money to management. They have to send a certain amount up the line. They don't just they can't just spend all the money there. They got to send the money up. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 8:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

In a lot of cases, in the new organizations, uh, these ideal organizations, in most cases, Scientology International, or what's called the International Landlord, they have purchased the building that the organization is in. So instead of paying rent to the landlord, they pay their rent to the international landlord in Scientology. And so they've got to pay that amount. They're basically like a franchise. An organization is essentially if you had like uh if you owned a bunch of McDonald's, you've got to think of it like that. They have to follow the Scientology organization. They have to do whatever the mothership tells them to do. They can't just do rogue stuff. They if there's a certain promotional campaign or certain things, they gotta do all the things that the mother church is telling them to do. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Okay. So at the end of the day, in most cases, they're just barely going into debt or or not in debt or not lowering their debt or not ra they're just kind of maybe slowly raising their debt as one of these Scientology organizations. Because they're not getting enough people into Scientology to pay for all the things they pay for. Now, at the same time, international management is like a cash furnace. They burn money. Golden Air Productions just like taking trash cans full of cash and just pouring it into the oven. They just into the fire pit.

unknown 9:42

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

But the top of the pile is David Miscavige.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Well,

Metrics, BIS, And Pushing Throughput

SPEAKER_00 9:45

yeah, and RTC and CMON. These guys are all spending money, but they're not doing any delivering any Scientology services or they're not so they don't have any.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

And they're not wedging money in.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yeah, they're not trying to get new people and they're not going to people and saying, give me a bunch of money as a donation. So they just suck the money down.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

And a lot of it. Because they're they have a 500-acre property that they're on. And the elect the electricity for the international base is a $300,000 a month in the summertime. $300,000 for the electrical bill for the international headquarters. It makes makes no sense why they haven't set up just an insane amount of solar at that property. They have hundreds and hundreds hundreds of acres. They could literally make that whole property just run off of that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Why be logical when you have money to burn?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Aaron Powell Anyway, they burn a lot of money, so they rely on the money from the organizations to be able to pay their bills. Now and then also from all the money that gets sent in from all of the different organizations, like let's say they get in, we'll use a good figure, the a million dollars from all of these 250 organizations combined. Let's say they get a million dollars in. Well, they got to pay that $300,000 electric bill, and they got to pay all the promotion and junk mail costs that they do. International management is printing books and flyers and cassettes and CDs and DVDs. They're doing everything. And they're spending money on doing that. So that money that's got to be accounted for.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Right. And and of course, the international events are no small.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

That's a million dollars for one event. That's a million dollars. So Scientology does spend a lot of money in relation to the amount of money that they make. Okay. So and this we're gonna the we're gonna give you an example of this at the end. But when we were there in from 1990 to 2005, traditionally all of the organizations besides the flag land base barely make up enough money to just cover themselves. So it's basically a wash at the end. The amount they're making either barely covers or doesn't cover their local nut, and the amount that they're setting to management is very minimal.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Right. In fact, in the early 2000s, um some of the events that preceded the ideal org strategy or idle org strategy by David Miscavige was the fact that it was a pretty common occurrence for organizations in in at lower levels to get eviction notices. Oh, yeah. Like Amy Scobie has told the story about when she was over all Scientology orgs, she had to come up with $5,000 to abate an eviction notice for an organization.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah. So yes, that is true. And that is why Scientology switched it over to Scientology management will buy purchase the building they're in, and then they'll have to pay them. Scientology will just be paying itself rent.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Aaron Ross Powell Right. And not only that, but it also opened up the strategy of, oh, I know, let's get all the local millionaires to pay for said building so they don't even have to spend money.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Trevor Burrus, yeah. So we're gonna get to that. So basically all of the organizations besides the flag land base, they don't really contribute to anything. They're doing their thing and they're delivering whatever they deliver, and then whatever little amount they can send to management, they send to management. But at the flag land base, they have basically a machine set up there to jam as many people through and get as much money out of those people as humanly possible. So if you're a Scientologist and you live in Michigan and you go to the Flag Land Base to do courses and Scientology courses and counseling, you're spending tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars while you're at that property. It could be for a few months, could be a few for a few weeks. They're getting at least tens of thousands of dollars out of you.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

And so traditionally, the flag land base itself, the the just the buildings in Clearwater, Florida, they're making one to two million dollars

Where The Money Goes Each Week

SPEAKER_00 14:30

a week at that one location. And that amount is what funds most of international management and all of the office of special affairs that are the Dirty Tricks Department that perpetrated the largest infiltration into the United States government in history. Um that organization, um the one organization in Florida is paying for everything.

unknown 14:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And if they make two and a half million, then there's a little bit of play money that can go to what's called C org reserves. And that amount of money is everything's paid for, and now we can send $100,000 to C org reserves. And every week something has to go to C org reserves.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Right. Because reserves always has to increase, never decrease.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

That's right. So and then basically that organization, the one in Clearwater, is the only profitable one consistently everywhere else. And and David Miscavige has told, explain this to us and how this works hundreds of times. Right. In meetings and stuff. He goes, people like people will be like, oh, we're gonna do this for this org. And he's like, Why are you focusing on that org? Flag is the only organization that r makes a profit. Right. So we need to concentrate on that location, not anywhere else. Which is kind of weird because you think if that's the only one that's profitable, then we should focus on the rest of them to make them profitable, not on the one that's already making money. Yeah, no, you would just focus more.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Like you reminded me of the time there was a time in 1996, I want to say, that uh one of the top registrars, so the person who brings in money uh and gets money from the public into Flag was Sonia Jakes. I think that's how you say her last name. Anyhow, David Miscavige, she had had a highest ever week. So David Miscavige gifted her, I want to say it was like a $50,000 watch. It was so expensive that he also insisted that uh an insurance policy be taken out on her arm.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Anyway, that's crazy. Okay, so in the overall scheme of things, Flag is the only place where people are doing a lot of sa Scientology stuff. And I was thinking about this early this week, and then Tony Ortega did this our article. Let me see if I can bring it up here. Okay, so he says League Stats, just how slow is a Scientology ideal org these days. So this is a new organization that is in Ventura, California. Yep. Right off right on the coast of California.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

And um it's basically like north of Malibu.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Ventura County, as I think.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Yeah, south of San Francisco, but north of LA.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah. Well, it's way south of San Francisco.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Okay. Anyway, that's where it is. Um but he what he did was he had a they have like these publications. There's a picture of it, you can see. I think that's the 101. Um anyway, there is a listing. They have like a little uh little sheet that goes out, a little newsletter that says who completed what courses. Instead of trying to read all this, because it's not that easy to read and the font and all that good stuff, we just made it into a graphic. Thank you, Clara.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Um anyway, so you can see at the top it says processing expanded grade zero communication release. So this is somebody that was receiving counseling. Yes. And from the way that the oh Jesus. From the way that the um this is structured, it seems like this this this woman, Elaine White, was getting full-time counseling.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

So she completed grade zero, grade one, grade two, grade three.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Ellen is clearly on the fast track to get onto the OT levels.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

And this is factor in, that's this is everything from that huge building you just showed.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah.

Ideal Orgs, Rent, And The Franchise Model

SPEAKER_03 18:45

For like the last couple of months.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, for two months. This is their list for two. Yeah, this is their list for two months. Oh, I gotta put me on there.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yeah, there you go. Okay, so yeah, the only two people got the grades.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

That's right. So now this is what I want. I want to read all these and then we'll we'll kind of show in proportion how that should all work out.

SPEAKER_05 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Um, and training, professional meeting meteoring course. Now, this course could take you a few months to do this professional media course. And so one guy completed that. Success through communication course, Mike Lamb. Now, this course you could probably do in two days, two or three days.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Of two and a half hours, you could do it in two or three days.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Definitely. It's an introductory course. So yeah, you're basically just running through, you know, the beginning like lower level of the training routines, the TRs. Yeah, just like you don't have to do a two-hour pass on facing somebody just looking at them for however many tens of hours until you don't flinch or blink or you know, fall asleep, or look away, or scratch your head, or any of that stuff. So this is just baby level TRs, basically, successful communication course. So you want me to give my context of Mike Lamb now?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

So when I pulled up this thing and I was getting ready for this, Claire says, I know Mike Lamb. And I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yes. So um my stepdad was the executive director of the Beverly Hills mission from starting in 1989 until 2011 or whatever. The Beverly Hills.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

The Beverly Hills mission is uh like a baby org. It's the they can only do introductory counseling and introductory courses at a mission. That's all they can do. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Yes. So in 1989, when I was 14 years old, um I twinned with Mike Lamb, meaning I he and I did a course together, which was the PTS potential trouble source and suppressive person, PTSP course. I was uh twinned with Mike Lamb. He's a surfer. He was also featured on the cover of Celebrity Magazine right around that time.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Um but the point is now so how many years ago was that?

SPEAKER_03 21:06

You know, uh 25, almost, you know, so this was 89, 26 years ago, 27 years ago. And now he's back doing the success through communication.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

Which is a course that you would do before the course that you did with him 29 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Or 28 years ago, or what at 27 years ago?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Yeah. Okay, so it just highlights and is a good example of how even though, even as wimpy as this looks, many of these people are probably doing these things over again. They're not new Scientologists.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Not all of them.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

No.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Okay, then you've got um the Hubbard Dynetics seminar. Laura did that one. And then there's a bunch of life Scientology life improvement courses. So again, all of these ones are courses that you could do in a couple of days.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Right. And we have a couple of repeat customers there too, like Laura finished. Life improvement course as well. In addition to the dianetics seminar, which is basically like one to two days. Yeah, the seminar course, I want to say, don't you just literally read not even the whole of Dianetics, the modern science of mental health. You just read certain sections of it, and it teaches you how to do introductory, what's called book one auditing, but without an e-meter, just like face-to-face. Yeah. Uh, you know, recall a moment of um unconsciousness or recall a moment of pain, you know, whatever, and then like using running running out engrams, but without an e-meter. So that's what you learn on the Hubbard Dianetic Seminar. It's really, really introductory.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Okay. And then you get into this what's called the gull golden age of knowledge. And that's a new thing that Miscavige invented, where he basically revamped all of Hubbard's courses and rearranged.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

He literally did invent it.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

It's nowhere in the Well, no, in policy, there's a this will be a golden age, but he doesn't say of knowledge. Yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

It wasn't a target on a program from Elrin Hubbard. That's for damn sure. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah. So one guy read Dianetics. There's a Dianetics, I guess you'd read it and

Flag As The Profit Engine

SPEAKER_00 23:20

do a course with it. He did that. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Two people. Jason's two. Two people did that. Then there's some other uh the Scientology 8808, the Philadelphia Doctorate Course Lectures. That's I want to say, is it 75 lectures, PDC?

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

So a whole bunch of L. Ron Hubbard lectures you have to listen to. So let's say that one probably could have taken a few months to listen to 70 lectures from L. Ron Hubbard. They're an hour to and change each. Um so that's a that's a little bit. Um and then there's another Dianetics, Dianetics 55 and the Unification Congress book and lectures. Yeah, so basically, when David Miscavige did this golden age of golden age of knowledge thing, he basically just bundled an L. Ron Hubbard book with an L. Ron Hubbard lecture series, and you do both of them at the same time. You read both and you listen to both. Then there's another lecture series, handbook for pre-clears, a bunch of other different things. But almost all of these things, the command of theta lectures, gosh, I can't even touch this thing without it going forward. The command of theta lectures, um, it's just a bunch of it's just a a handful of lectures that L. Run Hubbard did. You just listen to them and then you demonstrate concepts that he talked about in the lectures. Um the way to happiness course, that's a that's a throwaway. I can't even imagine how that's a not an introductory course.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Oh, yeah, for sure. Because the way to happiness takes 15 minutes to read. And you probably have to do a clay demonstration of each of the precepts.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

Uh the 21 precepts of the way to happiness. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah. And so almost all of these, di uh Dianetics, the original thesis, that's a very small um book. Um Second American ACC, that's just a bunch of lectures. Dianetics 55, again, another small book. Um ACC, these are called like American Clearing Congress is what ACC stands for. But um almost all of these are just a small book or some lectures are what these people did, which almost all these could be done within a few days.

SPEAKER_05 25:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Now, when I was young in the late 80s, I my mom and my uh my mom basically insisted that my sister and I go on some do Scientology courses at night after school. And we went to this place called the Advanced Organization of Los Angeles, and it's right in that cluster of those big blue buildings down in Hollywood in California. These amount of completions are what they would get in three to four days or a week at that organization at that time. If if they got less than this over a couple of days, they'd be in trouble at that place.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Yeah. I mean, because you'd have like easily what one to two hundred people on course during that seven to nine thirty.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

At least a hundred people. Roll call would take fifteen minutes.

unknown 26:24

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Because the way they do Scientology courses at the beginning of the course. Oh, I'm just all over the place today. Yeah. Um at the beginning of the course, they would list off everybody's name. They would do a roll call. They'd be like, okay. And they would read your full name. So you you'd know every single person that was on course because every night you hear every single one of these hundred names read off. Yes. And if you're there, you say I or here. And and then if there's no answer, they make a little note like, okay, Claire's not here to absent will be sent to ethics. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Go check on her and find out what she's up to. Um they do the same thing if you're in the Sea Org and you go to course every day. They do the same thing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Except in in the Sea Org. Uh for the senior people, they say they don't say your full name.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

They just are lower than you. Yes. Which there weren't anybody in RTC doing course supervising. So you they were you were always higher. Yeah. Okay. So why do I say this? Because this is why these organizations are going into debt and not supporting anything, is because this one organization, and this is a brand new facility with course rooms after course rooms after course rooms, these people could have fit all at one table in one course room, the amount of people that are doing stuff at this place.

SPEAKER_05 27:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

So they are basically empty, like bone-dry empty. Let me put back to this one. And that is why they're not making any money and they're they're not getting anybody in. And the people that they are getting in are doing these one to two hour, three, four-hour courses, and then they're probably like, okay, GTFO. And so they're trying to get people that are already in being like, hey, you need to come back and um do this course again.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

And as a statistic to show that you're getting somebody in. The other thing that a lot of Scientology

Events, Printing, And Cash Burn At The Top

SPEAKER_00 28:30

organizations have a problem with is they have got people and said, hey, listen, I want you to pay for everything up to clear, all of the courses that you'd have to do and auditing and counseling you have to do to get up to clear. And so they'll say, okay, here's $75,000. They take that $75,000, they spend it that week. It's spent, it's gone. But they have $75,000 worth of services to l to deliver to this person. Yep. And that person could be doing those for a year. They could be on course for a year. They're not making one single penny off that guy now because they they spent it eight months ago. And so if you start getting a lot of people into the organization and they're consuming consumables and they're taking up your hours and your time and your attention, but you're not making any new income from that. So that is how most of these organizations are set up, and that's where most of them are at. They're delivering services for money they've already spent, and they're not getting a lot of new people in to make more income. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

Right. Which is why David Miscavige switched their focus on donations and fundraising and programs like that that are not linked to any services having to be delivered. Wow, that sounds really loud.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah, I'm turning your headphone down now.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Oh, okay. Nope.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

You can't? You can't.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Yeah, there we go. Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Somebody said your mic was down way low.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Never mind.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Fun, fun. Um, I can't remember what I was saying, but that's where they switched to just raising funds and getting donations into the International Association of Scientologists versus having to deliver any kind of services.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Yeah. Okay, now I can't even hear me. You know what happened. I know what happened is that um I was uh I recorded by myself. Yes. And so then this got set up a little differently, and now there we go.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Trev says this is better.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Okay, but you're still you're still uh that's okay. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Now Claire's much mark louder than Mark now.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

Hopefully we're good now. It sounds balanced to me now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Tell me if this gets better, guys.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Does that get is that better or worse?

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Uh Clara, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Better or worse now?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

She says about the same.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Okay, well, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Trev says that we we're both understandable, so that's a positive. Uh BT's in the house.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Oh dear. Mark sounds super distant. Clara's super loud. Oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

It's okay, whatever. I'm not gonna mess with it anymore. I'm just gonna leave myself here.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

It's all good.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Okay. Um but now it sounds weird to me in my headphone, so now I have to adjust it. God dang it. This is ding ding ding ding chick chick. Okay, whatever. It's fine. It is what it is.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Yep. Tis what to tis.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

It's all Jenny Linson's fault, somebody says in the comments. Super random. Um I agree. Yeah, there we go. I'm gonna turn it to the way I and like, oh, it literally swapped from start. Now it sounds like mic's off.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Fun, fun, fun.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah. Okay. Well, it was a good, it was good, it was a good uh good pod while we had it.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Can you hear yourself?

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Now I can, yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Okay. See, I think I've got my mic set differently than yours, so now hold on a second.

SPEAKER_03 32:19

Uh Clara says, I know an A V guy who can help. I do too.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah. Okay, let's leave it like just like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Can you hear yourself? Yes, I can. I can hear myself. Clara says that's good.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Okay, perfect. I just made them the same. Okay, I'm not we're not doing any more. Oh wow. No, I do sound weird now.

SPEAKER_05 32:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

No, mine's the same as yours. So I'm just gonna turn down this a little bit. Okay. That's what we're leaving in it right there.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

Okay. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Okay. Love Food Kitchen says, oh my God, I have an ongoing Art Linson story. I meant to email Claire about it.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Oh, please do Love Food Kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Okay. So the whole reason I'm bringing this up is because Scientology

Decline Since 1996 And Golden Age Programs

SPEAKER_00 33:10

makes out like they're continuously expanding and they're Unprecedented expansion.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

We're on the cusp of planetary clearing.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Anyone who's in Scientology can go into one of these local organizations, and any one of those people can tell you they're empty. There's nobody in there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah. If you're simply equipped with the normal human faculty of sight, you can see that they are not expanding. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah. And it's that way all over the world. So wherever there's a Scientology organization, they are um I'm just tweaking my just babying it.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yep, it says perfect now.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Okay. Very distorted now. And then that person says perfect.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

No, because you just adjusted it. I heard the distortion too, and I don't hear it now. I I think I went quiet, but I don't know. Oh, Clara says it's good.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah, it's great. It's good. We're not we're not messing with it anymore.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Oh, you just did.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Now I turned your audio up.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

You turned me down.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Oh, how's that?

SPEAKER_03 34:10

There. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Um I think that's what I had. Because the thing is upside down, I've been turning it the opposite.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

You're like, I just turned you up, and I'm like, I can't hear anything now. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Fun, fun, fun.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Never a different moment.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Whenever we do a different setup that changes, we're going to do it.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

It always the BTs.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

It sounded good when we were in here.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

BTs get overstimulated and they they audio BTs, audio body things.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yes. Space cooties.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

We did a um we did a podcast for a little bit colt. I did.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Oh, you did too?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Yeah, I was in the chat.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah. And um it was only on their Patreon, I think. It was like a special thing for them.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Yeah, it was like a QA for Patreon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

But um but we were talking about a lot of things. But one of the other things somebody did, I saw somebody in the comments that said, well, what about all this money they're getting from the members? Okay, now that's a totally separate thing. So if a lot of the members, when when we said earlier, oh, Scientology buys the organization and then they pay Scientology rent, well, those people are donating to Scientology and then and it's earmarked for this building. I'm gonna buy this building. I'm gonna help you guys buy this building. And so instead of Scientology buying the money, the the building, they basically tell all the richy-rich Scientologists, hey, we need $100,000 from you, we need a million from you, we need $250 from you. And then they give all that money, and then Scientology uses that money to buy that organization. So Scientology is a very important thing.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Even though by the way, L. Ron Hubbard said no fundraising.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Yeah. That was a f that was a rule that L. Ron Hubbard said they could never do in Scientology was to do fundraising. It was not allowed. Because in Scientology, they have this very strict policy. If you give somebody something that's valuable, they will give you something in exchange for it. And when you do fundraising, you're not giving anything in exchange for money, you're just taking money. And that makes Scientology out exchange with the person. Anyway, so in those cases, those donations are earmarked for those buildings and then they buy them. But Scientology is not outlaying any of that cash. They're getting people to pay for it. So they're subsidizing the building. In the case of like John Travolta and Tom Cruise, I don't think Tom Cruise and John Travolta donate any money. They're donating their time and they're speaking about Scientology or whatever. In the most, in most cases, they're getting favorable services and perks that they're not paying for at all. Yeah. And they're just getting to do things.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Tom Cruise has definitely donated millions. So remember, he he allocated a portion of those back-end proceeds and said that that was going to go directly into Scientology's coffers. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Well, yeah, but I thought it was for to buy an org, like the London org or the organ space.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

David Miscavige said it was going into his war chest. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Okay. So yeah. So in the case of Tom Cruise, he may have given a lot of money. I've never heard about John Travolta donating a lot of money. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

No. Never heard about that.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

I know Christy Alley donated a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

And and also if they're on that list of patron meritorious, gluteus maximus, whatever, those things they cost millions of dollars to get to each one of those levels. And then you know, when you get to Nancy Cartwright, who's given like $10 or $15 million, then you know you get the a trophy the size of a ping pong table, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

Anyway, but even And if you have a child, uh they get gifted a lifetime membership for the International Association of Scientologists. Like Ella Blue, when she was born, got a lifetime membership. That was her gift from David Miscavige.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I think Jason's kids got that too. Yes. They were telling me about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Um Jason Biget.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

And Leah's Leah Remini's daughter.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Leah got the same thing. She said the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Okay, so that is the building donations, Scientology. And then they also have another one, which is the International Association. That's the one you get all the trophies for.

SPEAKER_04 38:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

And that money goes into Scientology's like defense fund. And they do call that the war chest. Yes. And that money is not allowed, the only money that's allowed to be spent

Ventura Org Stats And Empty Course Rooms

SPEAKER_00 38:40

out of that account is the interest that they make on the principal. They're never allowed to spend the principal that's in there. They can only say, like, if this year we made this much an interest, that's their budget for the year, what they can spend.

SPEAKER_05 38:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

And then yeah, and then you've got Flag. So Flag makes money. They make money from getting donations from individual Scientologists. They make money from IS donations. And that's how they're building more buildings and doing more stuff. It's not from the Scientology Ventura organization. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

No, and truly these big buildings that they're buying and renovating are also covering up the lack of new people getting into Scientology. It's, you know, well, hey, if we, you know, show these big buildings to our public, then they'll see like, ooh, look at all these new orgs. But you go into any one of them and they're empty and small and failing. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

I like to tell this story of when we were going around in 2004 is when the ideal org thing really started getting going and they started opening up different organizations. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah. The first one was Buffalo.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah. Buffalo, Stevens Creek, Joe Burg in Africa, New York, San Francisco, New York, a bunch of these. We went to, I want to say it was either Stevens Creek or San Francisco. We went months and months and months after they'd opened.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

It was Stevens Creek. It's in your book.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Okay, good. Stevens Creek.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

And um we went in there and in the course room, they have these tables where you're supposed to do these demonstrations in clay, and it's called the clay demo kit table. And this is months and months, maybe eight, nine months after this organization has become a say a new ideal org super size organization. And um, the clay was still in the plastic from when they filled the tables with clay. And I was like, no one's been in this course room for nine months. I'm like, what the what? Like it's like, how is this even possible? Like this is insanity. Like there should have been thousands of people that had done clay demos in that many months.

SPEAKER_05 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

And not one had done one. So anyway, the whole point of this is that Scientology is still shrinking, as evidenced by this latest organization, sharing their good news.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Um and and it's been like this for for over a decade. When we were still at the international management in the 90s, David Miscavige showed us graphs. And this is kind of a wild thing. In the late 90s, he had shown us graphs that basically since the early 90s, Scientology has been progressively declining on all stats across the board. And then in 96, they take a steep dive in 1996. And the only thing that happened, whenever you're in Scientology and you're trying to read graphs and what happened, you you look at a graph, and when it goes down or way up or whatever, if it changes characteristic or trend dramatically, you are instructed to go. What happened right there, right here at this one spot. And if you look at all of Scientology stats internationally, the number of bodies in the shop, the number of course completions, the number of cash.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

Value of services delivered, all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

They all nosedive at 1996. And the only thing that happened in 1996 was David Miscavige introduced the Golden Age of Tech, which is the pr predecessor to this golden age of knowledge BS he's got going now.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yeah, and anyone who any of the management executives at that time who correctly pointed out that date coincident with the release of the Golden Age of Tech, the stats crashed, they were sent to the rehabilitation project force. Yeah. Because you cannot say, Sir David Miscavige, your program is a POS and you are uh destroying Scientology. Can't say that.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Yeah. So anyway, Scientology is still shrinking. We have proof. Um, they're still phoning it in from these local organizations. And to tell you the truth, we don't really know what the current status of how many people are going through FLAG is. I'm sure it's still more than any of these other Scientology organizations because now they have the superpower rundown and the cause resurgence rundown, and they have all these other new things that really you don't you can just do anywhere, no matter where you are on Scientology's bridge to total freedom. Oh, that was the other thing. So the bridge is laid out by who can do what in Scientology. So the very bottom of the bridge, you can do it, what's called a Scientology mission. And then the next section, you can do it a Scientology organization. And then the next session section, you have to go to an advanced organization, which is a Sea Org organization. And then the l all of the final, most of the final last things you can do are either at the Flag land base or at the Free Winds uh cruise ship. And um so I I totally forgot what I was gonna say. There's uh there's basically um uh different levels where you can do these things, but when when we say that flag makes the most money, Flag also is all Sea Org

Prepaid Services And The Debt Trap

SPEAKER_00 44:30

members. There's no staff members at the Flagland. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

So they're paying that's where they pay people the least amount possible. That's where you're doing a hundred and twenty hours a week for you know thirty cents an hour, or whatever that were whatever forty-five dollars a week ends up divides by one twenty.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Um and that's if you get full of the yeah, or whatever the current rate is. Well, so if you get paid full pay. Some weeks it's like that, oh, we didn't have to make enough money, you're not getting paid.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

Okay. So that's that. That's where signed. That's so so flag is cash machine. That is flag Clearwater is their cash machine, and that's where David Miscavige, for most of the time that we were at the end base, uh a large majority of David Miscavige's focus is what happens at the flag land base. Yes, and how do we make this make more money and streamline it and you know, just anything and everything we can do to make money at this one location. And I never realized until n till today that is kind of a weird thing to do because of all the other organizations. If he could figure out how to fix one of those the remote organizations, likely those fixes could apply to many, and then they could all start making money.

SPEAKER_03 45:49

Um if there was any cheese in the trap, as Jason mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

There's cheese in there. There's just that's it's a trap.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

Exactly. Whether cheese or otherwise, no trap is no trap contains something that's worth it. But I was gonna say too, I r recently came in possession of some materials that if we wanted to, we could do a deep dive into like behind the scenes at flag now, what it looks like. Uh it's right out of a it's right out of severance, the the pictures and everything else that I recently came into possession of. So if that sounds interesting to our audience, pop a comment for Blooply Bloop.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

I have no idea what she's talking about.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Behind the scenes, like current creative affairs. All right.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Of severance?

SPEAKER_03 46:32

No, no, like but inside flag today. This is what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

This is what does that have to do with severance?

SPEAKER_03 46:38

It is right out of severance. It literally looks like it's from the TV set of severance.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Okay. Good job, babe.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

The audience understands me. That's all that matters. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Good job. Good job. I'm gonna let you go with that. Here's the there. Now we also found out some craziness about this, too.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

Yeah, so a few weeks ago we talked about the article that Tony Ortega put up um on the passing of Heber Gench, who, of course, was in Scientology for decades, is most well known for his for being the public spokesperson for Scientology for many, many years as the president. That was his title, president of the Church of Scientology International. And then starting in the early 2000s, he was banished to the whole. Um, hold on, let me change my view here one second. So, longtime nominal president of the Church of Scientology International in the early 2000s, Gench largely disappeared from public view. Multiple sources, including former Scientologists, alleged he was confined to the whole, a controversial disciplinary facility at Scientology's Gold Base, where I also spent time after Mark escaped. Um, family members reported being unable to contact him for years. This is from Gench's obituary, which is posted online. Um okay, let's see here. Um, this is also from an article that Tony Ortega put up on his blog a few years ago. David, 80, last spoke to his brother Heber, 76, three years ago. And this was like 2012, I want to say, is when this is from a conversation in

Donations, IAS War Chest, And Fundraising

SPEAKER_03 48:20

which he encouraged Heber to break out of the international base. Heber said, quote, I don't think I can ever get out of here, unquote. David told him, you have to try. The last thing Heber said to him was, I'll never get out of here alive, which is, you know, again, this is why we're here doing this and talking about these abuses of staff and in this case of an elderly man. After that, Baistaff refused to take David's calls. David is Heber's brother. When Heber lost his son, Alexander, at the age of 29, David called and asked to speak to Heber. They told David that he couldn't come and that Heber wouldn't be able to speak to him if he did. Again, isolation of elders, uh, destruction of families, practicing disconnection, all the evil abuses of Scientology. Heber had seen his son Alexander, in the that you can see in the picture here, just 12 times in 15 years because Heber was incarcerated in the hole. As a result, Alexander had grown up without a father. Okay, some years ago, Heber was moved from the Scientology International Management Base uh near to a nursing home. It was there that he passed away. That's what was reported. We just got a copy of Heber's death certificate in which it states the place of his death was, quote, Golden Era Homes-Hospice, unquote, located at 19625 Gilman Springs Road, which for those new here is the address of the international headquarters of gold base where Mark and I worked for 15 years. So um that's where he passed away. And by the way, um, at least to the best of my ability, um, I can confirm that this is not a licensed hospice. I've checked multiple California websites where hospices are required to list their licensure, and this is not one. So Goldenair Homes-Hospice, to me, this is just smoke and mirrors intended to cover up that Heber died at the location of the hole. Um, and exactly true to his thoughts, he was not able to get out of there. Um, the full address from the above certificate is 19625 Gilman Springs Road, the base address. Despite the title, Golden Era Homes Hospice, this is not a licensed hospice address. Sadly, Heber was correct when he said, I don't think I can ever get out of here, referring to the base. His story highlights the impact of elder abuse and isolation. It really does. And also on the death certificate. Um, the informant and executor is listed as none other than Kathy Fraser, who is uh the head of the hospice?

SPEAKER_00 51:09

Or what is she listed as?

SPEAKER_03 51:11

As the informant, which is the the informant is the person who provides the details of, you know, the parents and the next of kin and the location of the death and like the details for the death certificate. But she so she's listed as the informant and it says Katherine Fraser's, executor. So it just goes to show, like, if you go on, you know, look up informant on Google, like what's who's the informant? It says usually it's their next of kin, it's their family, it's a close friend, or if there's no family, then it's the staff of the hospice. But no, in this case, it's Kathy Fraser, who is David Miscavige's henchman to this day, to the best of my knowledge. Um, that's who, you know, she was basically the the prison ward of the Golden Era Homes Hospice.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Yeah, but let's not forget, Kathy Fraser is one of the inchwives that was on the Anderson Cooper CNN thing.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

She's also, if you've ever seen uh Louis Thoreau, my Scientology movie, she's the one that got in the the camera duel with Louie, where he was like, Well, if you put your camera down, we'll put our camera down.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

And because the She's also the one that was screaming at you at the top of her lines on Highway 79.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

Screaming at me on the highway.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

At the very location of Golden Era Homes-Hospice.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Yeah, in the Louie in the Louie documentary, uh My Scientology movie, she says, Well, put your camera down and we'll stop recording. And then Louie says, No, no, you put your camera down and we'll stop recording. And then she goes, No, no, no, you put and they just go back and forth like this over and over again. It's completely ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

And by the way, Kathy has at least two kids.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, she used to be Kathy D. Simone. That's right. And then she was Kathy Hawkins. She worked on the free one ship.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

She was worked on the free wins ship before she came to the headquarters. And I want to say she came to the Gold Base headquarters, whatever, Gilman Hot Springs, in like the mid-90s.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Yeah. It was like 95. Yeah, she got busted from the free wins.

unknown 53:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

She she was not she didn't get promoted to the Ant Base.

SPEAKER_05 53:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

She got she got gobbled up by the Ant Base.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Anyway, yeah, this Golden Era homes, it it actually is kind of crazy that they're they're kick they're calling that place a hospice. That's like anybody who's been there, if you're in the comments, let us know if that freaks you out too. That's kind of wild.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

Yeah, and and I will say that we are working on compiling a lot of cases through our work at the Aftermath Foundation of Elder Abuse. So if you have any knowledge or any information regarding similar cases, please do reach out. You can send an email to Phil at the AftermathFoundation.org or to me, Claire at the AftermathFoundation.org or Claire at blownforgood.com,

Commissions, FSMs, And Sales Incentives

SPEAKER_03 54:10

whatever you want. But I mean, we already have worked on a lot of cases involving elder abuse, elder mistreatment, you know, short, shortened schedules of 40 hours a week for a 70-year-old man with a stage four cancer diagnosis, things like this. And this really, really needs to be talked about and exposed because there are many, many people in Scientology to this day who are now classified as elderly people. And this is how they're covering up, being able to do whatever they want with those people, isolating them from their family. Like Heber was not even allowed to talk to his own brother.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Okay, one last slide.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

Yes. On a happier note, upcoming Comedy for a Cause, March 11th, 2026, Denver, Colorado. It is not too late to get your tickets, folks. We will have an online silent auction. We're working out the details to be able to live stream this. Uh, it's gonna be a really fun event um with some really good people. And um yeah, we hope to see you there. It's gonna be a blast. Um benefits go to the Michael J. Render Aftermath Foundation, featured comedian John Novosad, silent auction at 6 p.m., showtime at 7 30 p.m. Tickets available at comedyworks.com. And there's also a page on the aftermathfoundation.org website uh with more information. So super exciting. Uh, we're really um working hard to have the best year yet. Uh last year was our best year yet, so we're trying to make this one even better.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Awesome. We're gonna do some shout-outs and answer some questions.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Sounds good. Okay I'm in, I'm down.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Okay, Katura Stanley, hi from snowy Michigan. Hi, Kotura. Good to see you here. Burt Pineapple, hello from UK. Betsy Sue, greetings from Cameron, North Carolina. Trevin on good evening from the Netherlands. Mary Kay, hello from Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

I got to breathe for a second. Nasty Nathaniel 69, blown for good. I never hear anyone talk about the mission of the foothills in Montrose, California. Do you know anything about the Scientology mission? I never hear anyone talking about it. Yes, I know where that mission is. My sister did service it, did some courses there, um, but I don't have any current information about it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

As far as I know, it's just a small little storefront in like a strip mall kind of uh street where it's just retail.

SPEAKER_05 56:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

It's it's never really been more than like that's a place where maybe two or three people could come in and do an introductory course.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. Mainly children of Scientologists.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

But also not a bustling new person spot.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Yeah, they're not really hardcore trying to get people in there to do stuff. It's just like if you're doing something, you can come in here and do it.

SPEAKER_05 56:59

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Thank you, nasty Nathaniel. He's been around for a while. I've heard of that guy before. He's uh he's always uh he's like one of these um auditors that goes up to a place videoing, and then when they go, What are you doing? and they get all freak and then people lose their minds, and then he's just like, I'm just on the sidewalk, just walking down the sidewalk.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Yes. At Becky Big Brother fan, what is the food in the Fort Harrison restaurant like for the paying public? Yeah, when I was there, it was the lemon tree and the hibiscus. Hibiscus. I think so. And it was it was okay. I mean, it was just like cafeteria food.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

It really well, the lemon tree is a is a buffet style restaurant. You just go in, you get your train, you plop with some salad and some I remember when we would go and do events at Flag, if the golden era crew were in good standing with David Miscavige, sometimes we could go eat in the lemon tree. Or if we were working with professionals, the professionals were eating in there, so we would just go in there with them and eat.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

Yeah, and then sometimes after the events, like I remember I have a specific memory after the May 9th event in 1996, that the uh all the executives who had spoken at the event and everything went and had a nice sit-down dinner at the hibiscus, and it was a rare moment because I don't think I'd ever been at a nice dinner uh since being in the sea organization at that point.

SPEAKER_00 58:28

Yeah, I'm trying to think. The lemon tree is like golden corral.

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Yes, there you go. That's a good, a good and hibiscus is like um Outback Steakhouse.

SPEAKER_00 58:40

No, hibiscus is a little bit up, nicer, like uh Longhorn.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Longhorn. So it's like what about Longhorn? What about uh what about the cowboy one in uh in uh Amarillo? No.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

It's definitely not capital grill level.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

It's not really that nice. They like to bill it as like a this is a luxury restaurant, but you're like eh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

It's okay. It's not like blow your socks off type of meal. Mind you, when you haven't been eating a lot in the sea organization, our our memory of it probably way exaggerates how good it was because we were just mostly eating slop.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

So I said Olive Garden. Okay, oh hold on. Let me go back to my other view here. Um, Amy, if you've been at Flag for any length of time, you start to notice it's the same people over and over. No real new faces, no real growth, just the same small group cycling through that tells you a lot. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Totally true.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

I know, I know. I was really sad to learn recently that my siblings now all live in Clearwater, Florida. My two sisters used to live in California, and now they move down there, which means that. Anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

What is this? Same.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

Love Food Kitchen. As an aside, I visited the Lion Very Much Non-Ideal Org today. They were handing out cake to celebrate the Olympics. I laughed that someone set the Google listing name to pseudoscientific cult. God, that seems really, really um inappropriate. Handing out cake like Marie Antoinette let them eat cake?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Yeah, in Lyon?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

Yeah, in France.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

I know. I don't get this at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:20

That just feels like brutally wrong. I don't know. Maybe I'm missing something.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

Anyway, also, why would the org be handing out cake?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

I know. I

Flag Focus Over Local Growth

SPEAKER_03 1:00:30

I uh anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Well, I guess if they were celebrating the Olympics when the Olympics were in France.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:37

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Anyway, the orgs that it it's also that the that the comment from Amy about it's being the same people, that's how it is in the local organizations, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

There's like 10 or 15 people.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

It's like a small handful of people. I know, and it's been that way for a long time, but it's just gotten smaller and smaller and smaller.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

Even like I ru can remember uh doing courses at the Valley organization in North Hollywood in California after we moved here from the U.S. And it was like the same, it was a very small handful of people. Rarely were there any new people coming in. Yeah. It's yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

That is sort of how it is at all Scientology organizations, everywhere, is you've got the normal clique or crew or tribe that's always there. And then every once in a while, one of those people are like, oh, I'm going to flag when they start making some money, and then they become part of the flag tribe. And then now they're hanging out with all the flag people.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

Wowzers.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:43

Japan of Green Gables question Does Scientology hire elite accounting firms to maximize their finances like they do elite lawyers? You know what? Not that I have seen. Actually, they make the lawyers do all of the not only legal, but also the accounting strategies, is at least what was happening when I was there and had any knowledge of that. I never saw them have interaction with any of the big five accounting firms, like the re reputable bench depth, like really know their business accounting firms. Um, they did have, I think, a CPA, I think his name was Tom Spring, right? He was part of the IRS um exemption. So I I don't know what firm he worked for.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

I don't I don't never got the impression he was a top-notch, like part of the International Finance Office, which is at the international headquarters where we were, most of the people in there are accountants or they used to be accountants. And they've been doing it for 20, 30 years. And they know all the possible ways that a religion can kind of skirt around anything and everything. So uh they're likely they are maximizing as much as they can with the money that they have.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:06

Um but somebody said they use turbotex.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:09

Turbotex. They've got a turbocharged account there. They're using turbotex. Oh my goodness. No, I'll tell you. I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:21

Our chat is very lively too. Clara says, can I call the org and ask about this cake thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Um Yeah. No. The crazy thing is that the way L. Ron Hubbard set said to set up your accounts is he believed that if all the money was in one account, then the organization would just spend all the money. So the way he organized it is each organization usually has about 10 or 15 different accounts. Yes. They have a main account, they have the FSM account. Oh, that was the other thing I that we mentioned on the uh Grant Cardone thing, I think. Where I don't think I've ever talked about that. Was um we were talking or was it when we were talking last week about Grant Cardone?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:06

I think it was when you were talking to Sarah and Nippy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

I don't remember. Maybe it was. But Grant Cardone is um he Grant Cardone is this kind of swarmy car sales guy who's now into real estate and he has a company called Cardone Capital, but he does these rallies and um for Scientologists. And he's like, hey, you gotta come to Flag or you gotta do this or whatever. But a lot of what a lot of people don't know is that if you go to a Grant Cardone seminar and then you get into Scientology from that, when they when you get into Scientology say, Hey, who who sent you here? How'd you find out about this? They say Grant Cardone. Grant Cardone now becomes what's known in Scientology as their FSM, their field staff member, as the person who got them into Scientology. And he gets a 15% commission on every single service or counseling or whatever book they buy, whatever they get, he gets a 15% commission.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:03

Okay, so here's a question for you that I don't know the answer to. Um when people make donations to the IAS, does that also carry commissions? I think it does. Like Cindy Plahuda, our friend, has talked about doing our re regging, getting in donations for the superpower building. Yeah. And that's how she was earning money was from commission. So I think even for IAS donations, like maybe they get commissions anyway. Either way, might be an interesting Trevor Burrus.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

The people that are are working hard to get people in Scientology, if those people end up becoming Scientologists and donating money and doing courses and spending, if they spend a million dollars to get to OT eight, you made $150,000.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:46

Aaron Powell I know, which think about it like hmm so you're money motivated to get people into Scientology and get all their money. It's just so creepy.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

But that's what I'm saying, though. I know those that's what they're doing. That's how they

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

They give up their jobs and they that's all they do is make their money by getting people into Scientology and getting their money from them.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Okay. Fun, fun, fun. Yeah. Um, did you inhale your food while eating at the lemon tree? Of course I did. Yeah. Come on, man. I'm not sleeping on the job.

Life Inside Flag And Sea Org Labor

SPEAKER_03 1:06:20

Um Mark used to watch uh food eating competitions all the time. We were like, wow, these guys might be able to dust us every once in a while as ex-Sea Org members.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

Jimmy, what it was what is his name? Johnny Chestnut? Jimmy Chestnut? Yeah, something like that. Tommy Chestnut. Oh man, I wish I knew his name. Yeah. Anyway, he ain't got nothing on a Sea Org member.

unknown 1:06:39

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:39

Uh Trevinon. So Miscavige's downstat off to the RPF with the guy. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

He's a stat crasher.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

Yep. Um L E Y question. Who lives at the imp base now? Yeah, that's a good question. So to my knowledge, it's the people in any remaining executives who are were banished to the hole, because that's where that is. A few a handful of maintenance staff, like you know, that keep things running.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

All of Golden Arrow Productions.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:07

And then apparently that's now where they're at least sending some elderly people under the false guise of a hospice.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

Well, w when we were there, they were building these birthing buildings. They had never they had had not finished them by 2005. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:22

And by the way, that is like if you Google, I didn't include the exact address in that screenshot.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

But if you pull in, you plug in the exact address, it is the birthing buildings.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

Yeah. So they built enough of these buildings to birth the crew. And each building is has 400 people that it holds for a total of 1,600, is what the maximum complement of the international headquarters was. And from the people that we have heard from that have escaped mo most recently, they don't the all of the people that are there don't even fill one building.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Yes. So it's a it's down to the compared to what it was when we were there, it's now a ghost property.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

Um with yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:12

Do they have the BFG chat rundown?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

They do have we were we were talking, I was talking recently with a friend and we we were doing a project. And so as a result of said project, we ended up throwing about 400 pounds worth of um, you know, brick Hubbard volumes into a dumpster, and we were laughing, saying, you know what, this should be a really good step to recovering from and getting out of Scientology. Throw L. Ron Hubbard books in the dumpster until you feel good and feel a sense of relief and have no hesitation doing so.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

Yes. Like this one.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

Okay. Kathy Fraser gives Jenny Linson vibes. Oh, 100%. The question might be so who does who does it come from? Is it Jenny Linson giving Kathy Fraser Jenny Linson vibes, or is it Kathy Fraser giving Jenny Linson Kathy Fraser vibes?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

David Miscavige giving them both.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:10

Yes. They are like um yeah, they've been infected, you know. They are they have the um Jenny Linson and uh They have the David Miscavige fungus fungi growing in their brain, or the Corda, corda, whatever it's called from The Last of Us. It's growing in their brain.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

Okay. Yeah. Um Kathy Fraser and Jen Jen uh Jenny Linson are like final level Karen's.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Like expert levels. That's it. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

That's top-level Karen. You can't get any more. There's no, that's it. That's they're the final boss of the Karen's.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:45

I heard a rumor that Jessica's are the Karen's of 2026. Jessica's? That's what someone told me recently. I don't know if there's any truth in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

I don't believe everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:55

It's very hard to keep up with everything these days.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

Okay, guys. Oh, wait. I saw one from Techie. He used to be at the base.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Okay. Yes. Good friend. So lucky. I was almost one of those to spend my golden years at Golden Earl Homes Hospice. I know, right? Can you believe it? I mean, I I thought about that too. Like, oh my gosh, what had what if I had not escaped? That would be me too. I would I would die there. I mean, it's really, really sad, and it's criminal elder abuse. That's the bottom line.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Yeah, it is kind of wild that they're calling it Golden Era Hospice.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:31

And how prophetic if you look at David um not David Hebert Jench's last words to his brother David. It's just like, oh my God, it's sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

Um Okay, we'll do one last one here.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Okay. Martin Ottman question: how many staff work at FLAG, FSO FLB, and Flag Crew?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

I think it's like a thousand at least. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:53

Between all of those and and I want to say like a really good, a high percentage of those are foreign

Heber Jentzsch, The Hole, And “Hospice”

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

immigrants.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

Oh yeah. I mean they're telling these guys over in Europe or you know, any kind of e even third world countries. Yeah. You're going to get three hots at a cot, and we're going to pay you. And they're like, yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Like do you remember when we visited Coachman Park when when we um Leah put up Mike's bench, Mike Rinder's bench memorial bench, which is still there. Um we were walking through the park and there were a bunch of Sea Org members walking past us, and most of them were young foreign staff.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

Yeah. Yeah, they do take advantage of people from other countries.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

Especially Russia, Hungary, um, and I'm sure other places too. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Yeah, they basically tell them you're gonna get paid, you're gonna get fed, and we're gonna give you a place to sleep. And that's better than what they have now when they're trying to recruit them to Scientology. So they go, okay, I'll go do it, and then they're cleaning hotel rooms at the Fort Harrison for 45 bucks for 100 hours a week. Yeah. Okay, guys. Thanks for uh thanks for hanging out with us today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:11

Good to be back, good to see everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:14

Um Yeah, I think we did it. We get we're gonna we're getting ready for this March 11th thing, and um, we're trying to get as much stuff for the silent auction. And um I don't think uh I've already looked at it. This I there's not I'm not gonna be an MC. They have an MC already for this, and they have comedians and they have a format that they comfortably do.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

True. So But we we of course will be there and we'll there'll be uh uh you know a pre-mingle event before the show. So we'll hang it out. It'll be fun. And we'll hang it. You know, we'll we'll put together as much as we can to make it make it a really great event to highlight the good works of the foundation and to hopefully just have a fun evening to benefit the foundation and the work that we do. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:00

Totally. And um and and I may or may not do some other stuff besides that, but for now, we're gonna we're if anything else happens, it'll be a surprise. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:10

Ooh, comment from Mystery Mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

Um and then um Yeah, we're good, good, good. Um we've we've the somebody said the studio needs to be cleaned out of BTs. We're good, man. We smoked them out. I think we got them.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

Yep, we're good. It was just a little rusty, you know, they just had to be evicted, but we got them out. We're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:29

It's all that junk you brought in. Part of Claire's project, we did gain some new props to put in here.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

Yeah, we'll we'll talk about those on another episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Anyway, um Thanks again, guys. Uh thanks to everyone uh who joined us today. If you um if you are watching and you're not subscribed, please subscribe. It helps us get more.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:50

We would appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:51

It helps the algorithm, all that stuff. We don't really ask that much, but I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:55

So he asked, folks. Ploppity Please answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

Smash your BTs into the like and the into the subscribe.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:04

Oh, somebody just commented, Mitch is in the chat. Hey Mitch.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

Oh, yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:08

Yeah, nice, nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

Yeah, we were we were just that letter from what was from her, Mitch. Um, yeah, we were talking about uh Jenny Linson and Katherine Fraser, all your your old good buddies there, Mitch. Um, but um, but we are out of here, and uh we'll see you next time, guys. Until next time. Bye-bye. Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Zenu. Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book, Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology, in hardback, Kindle, and Audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast, and you can get that on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you could click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot until next time.