How Scientology’s “Rehabilitation Project Force” Breaks People And Why We Fought Back

A “rehabilitation” program that feels like prison. A forgiveness ritual that ends at a paint shed. A Christmas day so rare that 60 people sprint down Hollywood Boulevard to seize it before it’s canceled. We take you inside Scientology’s Rehabilitation Project Force through Amy and Mat’s first-hand stories—four RPF assignments, the even harsher RPF’s RPF, and the daily grind of segregation, hard labor, and sleep deprivation designed to break people in the Sea Org.

We unpack how the system works: coerced confessions followed by immediate punishment; “amnesty” used as a data trap; the e-meter’s “rock slam” turned into a label of evil that justifies years of discipline and forced auditing; and the relentless pressure at the Int Base under David Miscavige—midnight meetings, public humiliations, and punishments like running around a palm tree in dress shoes. Watchdog Committee posts pile onto one person, creating guaranteed failure and a ready-made scapegoat. Security fences, restricted lists, and bus checks keep people contained. When you’re stuck on-base, you make a bed in an electrical closet or a loft and learn to survive on minutes of sleep.

This conversation also exposes the social machinery that keeps people silent: sham Sea Org marriages never filed legally, disconnection that severs spouses overnight, and liability formulas that demand public confession and hundreds of signatures before you’re allowed “back in.” The trap gets tighter when entire orgs are kept in permanent “lower conditions,” making reentry mathematically impossible. And yet, resistance finds a way. From the legendary “Christmas dash” to quiet acts of kindness—passing gold coins, sharing food, planning escapes—people create cracks in a closed system. Amy and Matt’s reunion after being sent to opposite sides of the country is proof that solidarity and persistence can beat engineered separation.

If you care about cult dynamics, coercive control, and how institutions weaponize ritual, policy, and tech, this story pulls back the curtain with lived detail and dark humor. Hit play, then share your biggest question or takeaway with us. Subscribe, leave a review, and pass this episode to someone who needs to hear how control works—and how people get out.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: What Is The RPF

SPEAKER_06 0:25

Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to another episode of Blown for Good Scientology Exposed. Um, today, not only am I joined by my lovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Hey, hey, hey, everybody. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 0:39

But um we have special guests. We did a episode a few weeks ago with Matt Pesch on the RPF, where we read through the L. Ron Hubbard approved policies on the RPF, and then um, and then we went through a bunch of that with Matt, and he told us a few stories. But today we have Matt and Amy. Oh, look, there we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Yay, welcome, Matt and Amy.

SPEAKER_06 1:07

Yes. Special guests. And the reason that I wanted to have all of you guys on is because I myself was never on the RPF. But Claire was on the kids' RPF, and she was on the RPF when her mom, or she was a little kid, a little child when her mom was on the RPF, and both Matt and Amy have been to the RPF. And I I don't mind saying that I think Amy is the record holder amongst us of how many times they were on the RPF. How many times were you on the RPF, Amy?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

I was on the RPF four times.

SPEAKER_06 1:41

Holy moly.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

About my career. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:46

Before we get any before we get any further, for somebody who hasn't seen that first episode that we did, the RPF is called the Rehabilitation Project Force. And it is Scientology's uh it's sort of like a prison camp or a re-education camp for Sea Org members. Those are the people that signed the billion-year contracts. And um and the RPF being assigned to it could last one or two years, and I have known of a person that was on it for over 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

So that's a big call.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

And we and Which was my uncle.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Yeah. Applied to my uncle, Franco Sullivan was on the rehabilitation project force for 10 years in the UK.

SPEAKER_06 2:31

So that's sort of the groundwork for it. If you haven't seen the the episode that Matt and I did, you should probably watch that because that literally covers, you know, fast track through it. You can't talk to anybody unless spoken to. You got to run everywhere. You're s segregated from the rest of the crew. You're only allowed to be with the RPF crew. Um, you get the leftovers of what was made for the main crew and whatever's food-wise, whatever's left over from those people, that's what you the RPF gets. Um, did I leave anything out, Amy?

Amy’s First RPF At Sixteen

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Well, it's a whole world. It's a whole world. There's so many details to it, you know. But um, I guess we'll just take it, you know, one step at a time. But um, yeah, so I was on the RPF four times, and it the first time I was 16 years old. Oh my gosh. Yeah, and getting there is a story in itself. Why did that happen at age 16, you know, and um so many times to the RPS RPF too, which I have a story connected with every one of those times. But when you're in the RPF, you're the lowest of the low. But within the RPF, you have an RPF where you get busted even further and you're segregated even from the RPFs. You can't eat with anybody, you can't talk with anybody. It's a mandatory of um two weeks if they approve you to get off of there.

SPEAKER_06 3:54

And um, if it's a minimum you're in there for two weeks? Oh, so you can't just get assigned and come out the next day if you do something better.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

No, if you're assigned, you're in there two weeks minimum.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I wouldn't even start the the uh process to come back out until I had the record. I said, I'm not even starting this until I'm in here for 26 days.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

So my way it was just like F you, man.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

So I have a question. So if you're assigned to the RPF's RPF, how how are you differentiated it? Like, do you have to wear something different? Like, how how is how does that work mechanically in terms of it's all the same rules except for that they're lower than that?

SPEAKER_06 4:37

So they get the leftovers of the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, no, I'm clear on that. I'm just curious, like, do you have to wear a different do you have to wear anything different? Like, how do you know who's on the RPF's RPF?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

You don't even tell you.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

Oh, because you're seclude you're segregated from the RPF when you're on the RPF's RPF.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

And you're under guard, so you're not supposed to even cross paths with any other person.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

You don't sleep in the same place, you don't eat in the same place, you don't work in the same place, you are like you know, gone. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

One of my RPS RPF experiences with um me and two other people, and um out at Happy Valley, which is at the international headquarters location of Hammett, California, they wouldn't take their trash to the dump. Instead, they made it a mountain out of it on that property, a gigantic mountain of trash that festered in the desert sun for why wouldn't why wouldn't they just burn it?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

It was jelly trash, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Probably because they would set the entire mountain on fire. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Good point. That hasn't happened before.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

But so I was assigned with these two other people to get all that stuff taken to the dump. And so we were standing on the mountain of maggots, slinging broken trash bags of garbage that have been festering there for I don't know how long into this uh truck. And then we would take it to the dump and take it, you know, and dump it there and come back. And I don't know how many trips we had to make, but anyway, one of the guys there was just a joker, and he was flinging these garbage bags with this juice just going all over me. And I thought, if this isn't the lowest that I could ever be, I am standing on a mountain of maggots with juice wearing my face. You know, I mean, and what is this to prove? Like, you know, because you're just terrible. And I mean, I was assigned some of the reasons why I was assigned, okay. I was 16 years old. Yeah, I did. I I had sex with my husband before we got married, and that's why that's why you went to the RPG. Yes, we did. Well, let this story.

SPEAKER_07 7:18

Wow, the truth comes out.

SPEAKER_06 7:21

Unbelievable. Hey, I'm not gonna say anything directly, but Claire and I may have messed around a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

We didn't go all the way though. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

I didn't go all the way. Okay, so so I'm 16 years old. And the my first husband was 10 years older than me. He actually should have been arrested, is what should have happened. But completely, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:49

But instead of he was 26 and you were 16.

SPEAKER_03 7:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 7:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Yeah, at the Flagland base and here in Clearwater. And um, so what happened was I got put into a confessional, and it's the first time I've ever talked about sex, and it's with some older guy, and I'm having to like confess, and he's pulling like every detail you could imagine.

SPEAKER_07 8:11

I is there any more to that?

SPEAKER_03 8:15

How many times and which way? And oh my god. And I can barely breathe talking about this stuff. It was my first time. I'm 16 years old.

SPEAKER_06 8:23

Oh my god, can you imagine it's your first time, and then you get interrogated about it by some old geezer.

SPEAKER_07 8:30

By some old guy that you don't know, he doesn't know.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

I've never met. Yeah. But at the end of this confessional that I did with him, um, he said these words, which is called the power to forgive in Scientology that you do after confessionals. It says, by the power invested in me, any overts, which is a non-survival act and withholds, you have fully and truthfully told me, are forgiven by Scientologists. So he told that to me, and I felt the biggest relief ever thinking, wow, what a great church I'm re I'm involved in, because you can confess something that's super hard for you, but you're forgiven, and everything like that. I walked out of that room and there were security guards there waiting for me to drag me to the RPF.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

That's unbelievable.

RPF’s RPF: Isolation And Humiliation

SPEAKER_03 9:15

I didn't even go get my bags, nothing. I went straight to the RPF and they stuck me in a paint shed, and that's where I lived, is in a paint shed at the Blackland base. So much for that forgiveness, right? I know. I felt so betrayed, but anyway, oh my god. That was my first time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:33

Oh my gosh. The thing I was trying to find out about and ask about myself was so you in the Sea Org, you there's a thing called Liberties, and every other week, um technically a C org member is uh told that it's a possibility that they could get a day off on a Sunday. If your statistics were up and everything and you wrote a proposal that has to get approved by five or six people, including the commanding officer of your organization, then you'd be be allowed to take Sunday morning when we had cleaning, we had cleaning until like about uh noon, which then you had to go to lunch. Um that's where you would be able to do your laundry and clean your room. You get about three hours to do that every week. But on that same day, you'd get to take from noon to the end of the day off. Now at the Int Base, um pretty past pretty much past 1993, there weren't people taking the days off. In the RPF, when do you don't do you get days off in the RPF? No.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:44

Only unless it's a specific like uh reward or like a thing, you they they might be um set to be told that they would get a day off, but then a lot of times it gets re-renegged and they they don't get it anyway.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

But I think I was in the Seahawks, I only know if it happened one time, and that was I had worked out this thing with this mission that if the RPF went, you know, off all the study and stuff like that. This was in Los Angeles, getting ready for middle management to move over. If we pulled it off in time, we would get Christmas Day off.

SPEAKER_06 11:17

You were going to renovate a building, renovate a place for somebody to move into. The second floor of the uh main building at the complex. So he's he's talking about that big blue building that's in Hollywood that has that big Scientology sign on the way. The uh the management that was below the int base in Los Angeles, they used to be located at that building.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Right.

SPEAKER_06 11:40

Okay, so you guys were gonna renovate a bunch of offices for them. Whole floor. And they weren't gonna go to the RPF, wasn't gonna go to study or do any counseling or interrogations, just work, work, work all day, every day. If you got that done, then you made a deal with the executives over the RPF that they would be able to get Christmas Day off. Right. Wow. That's so I guess so that but if you weren't if there wasn't some kind of special deal you were making, the RPF didn't even get Christmas off. Oh, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

No days off. You're not allowed any days off, no matter how many years you're in there. And and it was really five years was probably an average of how long of how many between days that you weren't working. No, five, five years on the RPF, and you don't get any days off.

SPEAKER_06 12:29

That's what I'm saying. You never you're just working every single day Christmas, New Year's, birthday, every uh Easter, every day, President's Day, and then President's Day.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

There was this one time telling her happening.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Well, what happened was we're all excited, we're gonna get Christmas Day off. And uh the staff were supposed to get part of that day off too. Normal staff. Did you guys do finish the offices? Oh, yeah, yeah. We finished it all on time. We were like all happy, we got Christmas Day off. This is like amazing. And uh the regular staff, we're supposed to get at least the morning off and stuff with the families at that time. That got canceled because their statistics in pack in Los Angeles were so bad they said there's no Christmas even for the regular staff. So once they had their Christmas canceled, somebody got the bright idea that well, the RPF can't take Christmas off when the regular staff have no time off. Even though you guys had a you guys had special deals going here. Yeah, we had a special deal. So they had somebody they got somebody coming down the street to let us know that we're gonna not have Christmas Day off after this. And you caught wind of this. Yes. And within seconds, all 60 RPFs were in the wind. We were running down the streets in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_06 13:52

That's true. That's true. If in Scientology you get approved to have liberties, like somebody says it's approved, you can have your liberty, but then somebody else renegs it, or there's an announcement that happens at midnight. Uh you your proposal gets approved at 11 p.m. on Saturday night, and then you get the approved thing saying, Yes, it was approved. As long as no one is a lot is able to tell you that it was now reneged, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

You just have you can't claim blissful ignorance.

SPEAKER_06 14:26

Yeah, you just can't have the knowledge that it got unapproved, and then you got to take your whole day off. So that's what you guys did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Did it go watch movies and restaurants and all that stuff that comes out on the schedule?

SPEAKER_03 14:42

But it but that was so rare. It was so rare.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I mean that the visual of 60 RPFers running running away from the complex is amazing.

SPEAKER_07 14:53

Running to get to Hollywood Boulevard so they can watch some movies.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Run into Denny's quick.

SPEAKER_06 14:58

Or the Vogue. There was a theater actually not not too far from uh not the Vogue. It wasn't the Vogue. I can't remember what it was called, like the Mar Vista. It's where they filmed pulp fic uh pulp fiction, the very start uh not pulp fiction, another Tarantino movie. Uh True Romance. The beginning of true romance is at a theater that's right near the Hollywood complex of Scientology, and I want to say it's called the Vista. And it's right there, it's like maybe 10 blocks away. And um, and we used to go, if we were sneaking out and doing something, we go we jam over to the Vista to do stuff. I know a guy.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

You never got to jam out anywhere.

Happy Valley Trash Mountain Punishment

SPEAKER_06 15:38

It seems like my best friend, I don't even remember if I put this in my my book, but my best friend Jesse, he did this pilot course in Los Angeles called The Key to Life. Um, and he it was a pilot at the this place called the New World Corps, which is a sea organization that uh that does the upper levels of Scientology. Anyway, they he was doing a pilot, and one of the things you do is you go for walks. If that's on Key to Life, yeah. Yeah, you go for walks to like exteriorize and to like see everything around you, connect with the nature. I don't know what the purpose of it is, but Yeah, that's that's the purpose. They would go on walks, him and his twin, and they would go to the vista, watch a movie, and then walk back.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Oh wow, that's new.

SPEAKER_06 16:25

Yeah, so they've been gone for two hours.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I haven't heard that one before.

SPEAKER_06 16:28

They just walk back in, and and the the supervisor can't say anything because you're supposed to go on the walk. Yeah, you're supposed to go do it. You're just not supposed to walk to the movies, you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Nor are you supposed to sit down for two hours while taking a walk.

SPEAKER_06 16:43

Okay, so Amy, um, so you were what what were the locations and the times that you were on the RPF?

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Okay, so the first time was um I was 16 years old, and that was at the Flagland Base. Okay, so in Florida. Almost a year in Florida. Okay, and then when I was 19 to 21, I first went to the pack RPF, and that was because I wrote something in my L. Ron Hubbard Amnesty that said you're supposed to forgive everything that was divulged in your amnesty. Instead, it was a trap. And I had, yes, and so not only.

SPEAKER_05 17:22

And that was in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

That was in Los Angeles. Jan Adair from the Int base came down and signed me straight to the RPF's RPF. I didn't want to just go to the RPF.

SPEAKER_06 17:31

Was she Jane Adair Swanson at the time?

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:34

Okay, so Jana Dare from Int, from the international headquarters, went to Los Angeles and said, You're going to the RPF's RPF right off the bat.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:47

Because of something that you wrote in Scientology, they've had this maybe three or four times in the history of Scientology. When something really big happens, they tell everybody, listen, we want to make we want to clean the slate with everybody. There's sorry, the guys, there's a cat uh just walked right under Claire's uh station here. Um they say um they say we want to clean the slate with everybody, and they get every single person in Scientology that they can to write up anything bad that they did that they probably would have gotten trouble for in Scientology, and they call it an amnesty. And they basically say, once you've admitted to all these things, then the slate is clean. And if somebody finds out you did this later on, you already said it in your amnesty, so you're fine.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yeah. It clears your entire ethics file. It's supposed to like you're supposed to just burn your ethics file because it's all so you start from zero.

SPEAKER_06 18:44

It's like basically starting from zero. You have no reports in your file and you have no bad marks against you.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of which, the last amnesty that I know that they did was um in 1993 for the IAS event when they announced religious recognition for Scientology.

SPEAKER_06 19:04

Yeah, I I want I want Amy to finish telling her story because I have an amnesty story, which I would love to tell you guys.

Coerced Confessions And “Forgiveness” Trap

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah, they're all traps, they're traps, you know. And yeah, we weren't even allowed to utilize this 1993 one. It was for other people. Okay, but anyway, so I'm on the pack RPF, you know, from my amnesty, RPF's RPF from my amnesty. I have lots of stories about that, but I'll then then what happened was um Al Ron Hubbard was gonna come back to the int base. And so the RPF in pack, those who were qualified, like me, went up to the LA to the int base. Yeah, I went from LA's the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

So you you were promoted to the int base via the RPF. The RPF. Wow. That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_06 19:58

That is how you know that's how you know the qualifications thing when like no one was ever qualified to come up. You know, for years and years, they could never get any new people to the base because they didn't qualify. In the 80s and the 90s, they were jamming people up there from the RPF. The RPF's RPF. And so, how long? So, how long were you on the RPN at that stint?

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Two years, full-time decks. We didn't do any enhancement, we just worked around the clock building L. Ron Hubbard's home.

SPEAKER_06 20:30

For two years you built BV?

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Two years.

SPEAKER_06 20:32

The old BV, the old one.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Two straight years. We did nothing. I didn't sleep. I mean, we slept on the on carpet rolls in the garage. I mean, I've got stories anyway. Um, that was super abusive. And then I got a board of review that found my RPF assignment was injust. After two years, and it was canceled, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:55

And then you and then you were posted at the base after that?

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah, yeah. But while I was on there, one time after 500 nights up, Wendell gave me a back rub at a production meeting, and David Miscavige found out about that. So he and I were both assigned to the RPS RPF for a backdated and it was for like one second, it wasn't even a good one.

SPEAKER_06 21:18

Do you know how many times he told us about that in the when we were in meetings with him after that? It was like it would be.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

No, that was 1984. I know.

SPEAKER_06 21:28

I'm saying when we were at the base in meetings, whenever Wendell was always in these meetings, says he was either a CO gold or in Financed or some high up muckety muck. And whenever Dave would say things about him, he goes, Oh, you you need a back rub? Or you know, he would say things like Yes, right? Am I not lying, Claire? Yeah, no, I remember he would and he and it was always if somebody admitted to something, it didn't matter when it was in their C or career. If David Miscavige knew about it, he would never miss an opportunity to just air it out to everybody in the room.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, his mind is like literally a running black book of people who have marks.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Yeah, seriously. And so the the job that he that David Miscavige assigned to me and Wendell, I mean, you would think that they'd separate us if he thought that it was something was going on or whatever, but no, Wendell and I were assigned to the leech field out behind the tavern where the septic tank was completely overflowed and we were supposed to drain it by hand and white globe the septic tank.

SPEAKER_07 22:36

That's oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

And this was in '84. Yeah. So so so years later, when he had all management executives clearing out the aeration field, it was not the first time he'd come up with that idea as a punishment, in other words. I didn't realize that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:55

I thought 16 years before that he was doing that.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 23:00

Okay, so then what was the next time? So that's that's two times.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

So so far we're at three years, three years running total. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Um, so then um then ages 24 and 25 for a year and a half. Uh at the base, I was assigned to the RPF for what's called on the e-meter, a rock slam, which is a uh it's an e-meter read that's erratic and it's supposed to mean that you have evil purposes. And um, so I was assigned as a that I was supposedly thinking about L. Ron Hubbard while my needle was being erratic. So they sent me straight to the RPS RPF. And so I went to the RPF again.

SPEAKER_06 23:49

It does say that we met when Matt and I read through the issue, one of the things that you can be assigned to the RPF for is if you're on the the Scientology e-meter, this kind of measuring device they have, which is a lot. I mean, obviously it's crazy. If the needle dances around wildly, then you get to go to the RPF's RPF.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Yeah, and it could be anything. I mean, it could be anything, it could be the meters wrong, you touch the cans, you wiggled around, or or something, but it doesn't necessarily mean what they're doing. It's such a mind I can't swear on on here, but it it just ruins you. Okay, so I go to the RPF. I didn't do anything, I didn't do anything.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

You were just doing your job and you were in an interviewer auditing, and then this thing happened.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

That's right. And so so I'm sent straight to the RPS RPF as a total criminal. You know, my husband disconnected from me, not this one. Wow, um, disconnected from me, Jim Mortland, and um, because he was told that I was his why for why he wasn't doing good on his own job, which was like, hello, I don't even talk to you, I don't even see you.

Liberties, No Days Off, And The Christmas Run

SPEAKER_07 24:57

I know that's so funny when they're like, You're making me look bad, you know. Claire was in an RTC.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Get your hand out of my face.

SPEAKER_07 25:05

Look, I reached I reached through my camera into her camera. Look at that.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

Get your hand out of my camera.

SPEAKER_06 25:16

She's like, You're making me look bad. And I'm thinking to myself, I've never, I never see you, and we're never together. How am I making you look bad?

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Anyway, but yeah, we've all we've all had those experiences where people are like, Well, obviously, Mark is doing very poorly, yeah, um, and that's why you are also doing poorly. I'm like, I literally never see my husband. How is that how does that work? Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 25:43

Yeah, none of her goodness is rubbing off on me, and none of my badness is rubbing off on her.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

But you know, I I want to stress on that one especially, like that that the damage that it does to a person's spirit. Oh, yeah. Well, that's the whole purpose. It oh, especially this one, you know. I okay, so I did, you know, petting with this person and I, you know, slapped me around. But this one was like, I did nothing. Yeah, and and it's supposedly, and so I got sent to the RPF. And because you have when you have um this list one, which means like on on a list that's a priority list, which has things on it like L. Ron Hubbard Scientology, if you have a rock slam on those subjects, which supposedly I did on L Ron Hubbard, then then you have to do the OT levels all the way up through OT5.

SPEAKER_06 26:36

On the RPF?

SPEAKER_03 26:38

On the RPF. I was only clear I remember that.

SPEAKER_06 26:41

What? Yeah. Hold on, say this part again. Because you had a uh rock slam. The only way to handle based while you were thinking about any one of these number of things, one of which is L. Ron Hubbard to David Miscavige, you have to go, you have to do the RPF and do the OT levels before you can get off the RPF.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah. I had to do up through OT5.

SPEAKER_06 27:03

So the people that are on the RPF for 10 years, they're they're in that, probably in that category.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

Some of them, some of them are just you can't uh it's a whole thing. It's so arbitrary that people think. Maybe your uncle had you to come off.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah, but you know what I want to mention because and again, this is probably getting a little too technical, but when you have that list one rock slam, in order to for it to count as handled, when you're getting you have to go through false purpose rundown. So you're now addressing and and getting rid of those said quote unquote evil purposes. But the crazy part, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, Amy, is that to for the list one rock slam to count as handled, they have to get that same needle reaction to come back. Produced. Yes. Which which which I never saw happen, by the way. No, yeah, because it's all crap, right? Because this is what happened.

SPEAKER_06 28:05

I love how you guys are arguing over whether the fooie is actually fooie. We already know it's fooie.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah, but it's just it's true though. But so so I finally get onto OT5, where you're supposed to address, like specifically address this thing, and my folders opened, and I got to see it because I'm supposed to orient myself to the time and blah blah where it happened. And it's a handwritten thing from Janadare that says, opinion, she's thinking about L. Ron Hubbard.

SPEAKER_06 28:36

What wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

I didn't even say L.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Ron Hubbard.

SPEAKER_06 28:41

Hold on a minute. Is is is Jay is Jana Dare Swanson the main baddie in your in your origin story? It sounds like she's the one who jammed you up in '84, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Or not in '84, but in LA. She's your own personal wicked witch of the West.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

So she was responsible for assigning you to the RPF on two separate occasions.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

I think three. What? And and also RPS RPFs, and also non-turbulation orders and different things like that. But anyway, she was she was not my favorite. But um, but so so now it comes out that I didn't even say the word Elrin Hubbard in that session because I was like, I I I I was like talking about Elrin Hubbard and this, you know, no, the whole thing was just a sham. Anyway, by that time, I had already done I people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to where I was now at, so I could just laugh and say, ha ha, you know, there's nothing. So I graduated. It only took me 15 months to do it in Wellington. But I did it. I went all the way through, and then as soon as I got out, I did OT6 and seven.

SPEAKER_06 29:49

I had no idea, Amy. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:53

Wow, that's crazy. Okay, but hold on, that's only three times.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

But wait, there's more 15-year gap neck this time, though.

SPEAKER_07 30:03

Okay, you were you figured out just stay away from Jada Dare. Yeah, your 15 reprieve was Jada Dare was on the RPF for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Yeah, yeah. So for 15 years, and then I wasn't that's when I was in watchdog committee and all that kind of fun stuff. Um, but the next time I went to the RPF, I was age 40.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

And um, and what happened was I was in the int base and I received a fitness board from CMO Int to the RPF, which is completely not how it was supposed to be done, but you know, who you were in CMO Int, and you were you were, I remember you were what what they referred to as WDC watchdog committee. You were watchdog committee for CC. You were, I think you were a bunch of different ones that you kind of did, even though it wasn't your job. You were still the one answering emails.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Like Golden Era Studios, Association for Better Living Education, the C Organization, Scientology, Celebrity Center, the Flag Bureau, you were all of those WDCs.

SPEAKER_06 31:09

You were WDC Able, WDC C C, WCC Ship, WCC Gold, S One W D C S C N and W D S O W D C SO and W D C Able. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

So now this were you were you WDC WISE for at one point or no? No. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

So the watchdog committee is supposed to look over everything that's happening with any one of those sectors. Now, what I just explained, we just explained to you in all these different things, that each one of those jobs that we rattled off is a single person's full-time job to thoroughly study and analyze what's happening with their area and then figure out ways that they can make get bigger and make more if they're making uh r widgets, they need to make uh a 10 million widget somehow. So you were doing all of those jobs, like answering all of the correspondence for all of those jobs.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

All the strategies, the programs, the evaluations, the everything. And it was it was uh a nightmare. Literally didn't sleep, but I was in there for a long, long time for over a decade. But um, but so I got busted, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_06 32:28

This is gonna be you guys are gonna see this, it all comes back around. It all comes back around.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

Well, anyway, I I got busted, and because I was disaffected, I suddenly had this realization that that I was rationalizing complete insanity, you know, and and making it okay in my mind. And when I stopped doing that, then it it just jumped off the page, like how nuts the place was. So I wasn't in agreement with anything. I was getting pressured to do different things, and I just said, I'm not doing it, which was so unlike me. Normally I would just like salute both hands and just figure it out and get it done, you know, at a dead run my whole life. That's how I was now I was like, I'm not doing it. Um so I got a fitness board out of there into the RPF.

SPEAKER_06 33:13

But hold on a second. Were you on the decks before that? And didn't weren't was it there? What something happened down at the purification rundown place?

SPEAKER_03 33:21

The running program.

SPEAKER_06 33:22

The running program. Tell that before you so because this is where the uh the thing I said earlier comes into play.

Amy’s Multiple RPF Stints And Int Base Transfer

SPEAKER_03 33:29

So when David Miscavige was coming up with all kinds of different punishments, you know, like I was on the on the purification program, the sweat program for eight straight months, taking 5,000 knives. And this is when my my mind started going crazy and like I gotta get out of here. Um, but we were all of the executives, he he made us go down to this palm tree and run around it for hours and hours in our uniforms, and um until we all had a group realization about how criminal we were.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

And um and this included do it running around said tree until like two, three o'clock in the morning, right, Amy?

SPEAKER_06 34:05

Yeah, yeah, he would send them.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I remember that leather shoes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 34:09

This was it, what year was this in? Was this in the uh late nineties or early two thousands? Yeah, okay. So I remember when this was happening because sometimes he would send those guys down there at a meeting that was taking place at eleven o'clock in the morning. Like eleven o'clock at night. Yes. And then they would be out there until early in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah. And and the and it didn't matter whether these executives you were even physically capable of running around the tree. Like I I have a the distinct memory of Debbie Hughes, who was diabetic, being put in a wheelchair and still being pushed around the tree in the wee hours of the morning because she couldn't run. That's sanity.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

I witnessed that from where I was doing renovations. I saw all the executives. Now I'm now I'm busted to the deck, so I'm doing renovations and I see them all running around. And I see Debbie in a wheelchair being pushed around, and it's because she had a uh diabetic seizure or something like that. And in Scientology, they have a destructive, disgusting thing that what turns it on will turn it off. Yeah, so you have to keep doing what's destroying you because that is that turned on this mess, so it's gonna turn it off too. You know, you know destructive, how dangerous that is completely dangerous. Surprising she lived through that. And anyway, so yeah, so I so from that from the decks there, I went to what what happened with Wendell?

SPEAKER_06 35:36

Didn't something happen with Wendell again?

SPEAKER_02 35:39

Yes, okay, so Mark Mark's like a dog with a bone. I'm sorry, Amy.

SPEAKER_07 35:44

You keep skipping over the good part, which makes this even wilder.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

Well, Wendell was helping me because um well, we started up a little, we were both on the purification program together, and you know, and so like, and this is when I started getting like I gotta get out of here type of thing, you know. And so we started up like private conversations and stuff like that, and he was starting to help me. And uh he was he told me how to set up a bank account because I didn't know I'm 40 years old, never had a bank account in my life. So, and then gave me money, gave me some gold coins, like you know, yeah. I had to give it all backflow, and I'm sure it never went back to Windows.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That must have been a hell of a back rope.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

So this is this is in 2003 now.

SPEAKER_06 36:35

That's right. So during this time period, from about 2003 well into 2004, all of the executives of the base and a few of the executives from Golden Air Productions would have to sit in these six-hour long meetings with David Miscavige every single day. Sometimes we'd have three four-hour meetings in one day.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

So And at the end of the day, sleeping two or three hours a night, by the way. And if anybody even so much as looks dull for even a moment, there's hell to pay.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

Anyway, so we were meeting with him, and we were meeting in the brand new RTC building. And during this time, even though Wendell was kind of on the decks and he was in trouble, he would still be made to come to some of these meetings.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:22

But David Miscavige would make him um be by stand like behind a pillar or a wall. So so Wendell had to be in the meeting, but he but David Miscavige was not allowed to see him being in the meeting, even though he was told that he had to be in the meeting. Anyway, so we would be.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

He had to be out out of um David Miscavige's kind of peripheral vision. Like you couldn't see him, he just had to be there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_06 37:50

So we would be in this hall in the middle of the RTC building, this brand new building, and everything is perfectly pristine and no one works.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah. Yeah, million dollars. 40,000 square foot building that has eight people working in it in David Miscavige's wing on the second floor.

SPEAKER_06 38:07

Yeah, but it's it's but it's so clean and everything's brand new that you want to be careful that you're not the guy that is the first one to scratch the floor in a brand new David Miscavige building. Anyway, but we're sitting in these meetings. There's maybe 50 people in this meeting. And there's a hallway that leads off to one of the bathrooms, and Wendell is standing in that hallway right at the corner where he can hear but can't be seen. And David Miscavige is talking about you and him in the sauna, and then he goes, You don't know it, but these guys were given f funny back rubs fucking 20 years ago, you know. And that's when I remembered hearing about it. I didn't know about the back rubs thing, it was years and years before that. Anyway, but that's how crazy David Miscavige is that he makes somebody come to a meeting but can't let them s him see them in the meeting. It's insanity.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

It is okay.

SPEAKER_06 39:03

So you went to the RPF that time, yeah, and then how long were you that and then that was the last RPF you left from the RPF?

SPEAKER_03 39:11

I was on that one for two years, and I I when I went, I didn't tell them immediately about Wendell. I just decided I'm not telling nobody nothing, and he didn't tell anybody anything either. And so it was like then my twin Gabrielle Llewellyn wrote a report.

SPEAKER_06 39:32

What?

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Yeah, she wrote a report up to end.

SPEAKER_06 39:35

Oh my god. Okay, so now this is perfect segue. So then so, but then you got in trouble on the RPF.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Oh, I got sent to the RPS RPF. Again. Okay, and then with Gabrielle, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 39:47

Okay, she was your twin, so she had to go with you.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Even though she's the one that wrote the report, she went with you. Wow, it was a double double cross.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Karma. And then they they said that I couldn't, even though it was a two-week thing, they said that I couldn't come off the int guys said that I couldn't come off the RPF until they approved it, which you knew when that was gonna be. Oh, yeah. Never never.

SPEAKER_06 40:08

That's gonna, it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

I just I've collapsed so so bad about that. I said L. Ron Hubbard says two weeks. I've been on this thing for two weeks. I demand to come off because nobody at Uplines or here can override L Ron Hubbard. That was my only way of getting off there. And I and they did let me off.

SPEAKER_06 40:24

Well, because they're not gonna they're not gonna tell the guys.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

They didn't tell in.

Rock Slams, OT Levels, And Weaponized Tech

SPEAKER_06 40:28

They're gonna let you off, but they're not gonna tell the guys upstairs that they let you off. So they wanna they're gonna play both sides of this coin.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

Yeah, crazy. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 40:37

Okay, and then you left the Sea Org from And then he joined the Sea Org.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

I mean, joined the RPF. Joined you, he got sent to the RPF. And then we became twins. And then what happened to Gam? We gave each other back rubs.

SPEAKER_06 40:54

That's it. It's that's it. It's a dwindling spiral with Amy. If you get a back rub, you best be in trouble soon. She's got magic back rub hands. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

But hold on. So what what happened to Gabrielle?

SPEAKER_03 41:09

She left the Sea Org. And so I had no way.

SPEAKER_06 41:12

Okay, so look.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Because her, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:14

Let's explain that too. So when you go to the RPF, you're assigned to the RPF as a punishment. You get paired up with somebody, and that's called your twin. And so everything that you do, um, if there's some sort of so let's just say it's counseling level D, you do counseling on them and they finish up, and then they do counseling on you and they finish you up. And you both have to kind of climb the ladder of the RPF together.

SPEAKER_04 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:40

Before until you graduate. And and when you graduate, you both have to graduate.

SPEAKER_04 41:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:45

So you could spend a year or two with somebody, and then that person breaks. They can't take it anymore, and they say, uh, Sayanora, and then they leave. You have to get another twin, and then you have to start all over again.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

That's what happened because her husband got got offloaded out of the C organization. He was in the RPF in LA. She was in the RPF at Flag because they were keeping them separated. She found out that he was gone, so she wanted to leave too. So she left. How did she find out that he was gone? I don't know actually.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I don't remember. I mean, I probably do know, and I just can't remember.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Oh, it's all right. I was just curious because I I've seen scenarios where they didn't even tell the husband or wife that you know their partner. It was way, it was gone.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Oh, it was way past after he was gone already. And it was yeah, and she was so furious that she didn't know. But listen to this I was still married to Jim Mortland when I was sent to the uh flag RPF. Okay, I'm on there for like a year, and I know that I'm not going back to the Int Base, so we decided that we I would get we would get divorced because he's an Imp Base staff member, and I'm on the RPF in Florida, and I'm not going back to the Int base. Period. Not only am I not qualified, not but I'm just not going to go. And so so divorce papers were sent to me by the legal director of gold on the RPF, and I received these papers, and it's signed by Jim Mortland in Arizona as an insurance broker or something. I'm like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_07 43:24

He's not even at the base, he's already out of the Sea Org, and he works at an insurance broker.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

I don't, and I'm like, what is this? So so you have to like write a petition to be able to make any phone calls if you're on the RPF. So I wrote this petition that I needed to call anybody to find out what the heck, right? And um so hold on a second number.

SPEAKER_06 43:49

You're married to a dude who not only left the Sea Org, left Scientology basically, and went out into the real world and became a mortgage broker.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah, no, Hawaii, don't say.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

And you but you were unaware of everything.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Totally unaware.

SPEAKER_06 44:06

That's how much husband and wife talk to each other in the Seer guy.

SPEAKER_07 44:09

Just so you know.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

So then what happened is so I don't have any phone numbers. You know, he was at the in base, and all any any phone numbers are confiscated anyway. So I didn't have any phone numbers. So I called information for his dad, who I met one time in 17 years of being married to Jane. Jim. I met him one time. Um and so I called, I got information and I called his number. His name is Max. And I said, Hi, Max, this is Amy. He's like, Oh, hi, Amy. And I said, Hi, um I I was just looking for for Jim. You know, have you been in touch with him? And oh, you don't know?

SPEAKER_04 44:50

He's married. I said, What's her name?

SPEAKER_03 45:02

And he said, Her name is Sarah, and I'm like, Sarah, Sarah. Oh my God, and probably Sarah Cunningham. Oh god, because they would have left together, whatever. So I said, Do you have his number? So I can give him a call. And so I got Jim's number. Listen to this. So then, you know, and I already got my one phone call, and I said, No, I am gonna make this other phone call, you know. So I made this other phone call. I I just, you know, defied the rules to be able to make a call to Jim.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

And I said, No, there was a one phone call rule.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Oh, yeah. You gotta write a petition, and I and I made it to the dad, and now I'm gonna be making another one. And plus, we didn't know Jim's status. Um, so and he was declared, and you're not supposed to call somebody declared. And Gab was telling me that I shouldn't call him, and I'm saying I'm calling him, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

I mean, he's your husband, even though he's also apparently now by now somebody else's husband as well.

SPEAKER_06 45:56

He's also a suppressive person married to another suppressive person.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

And I'm calling him, but I have to know, I have to know what's going on. Sure. So I call that number and and I Jim says, Hello, and I said, Hi Jim, it's Amy. He goes, Hi, honey.

SPEAKER_07 46:19

I love Jim. I love Jim. That is classic Jim.

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Oh my god. Well, 17 years of marriage, you know. Yeah, that's what he called me, it was honey.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Um, so yeah, that's when I found out that he was told that, you know, all these things about me. And so he was and he was offloaded out of the sea organization. When we got married, we never did like legal papers. We only had a Scientology ceremony, so it wasn't really recognized.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

And so for 17 years, you had not technically legally been married, actually.

SPEAKER_06 46:53

Which is very, very common in the C org because there was I know one guy, um his name was Olth, and he was married to this girl um that was in it was CMO Int. She was in the PR division.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Susan Porter Shirley.

SPEAKER_06 47:08

Susan Porter Shirley. Anyway, and then she was at at the in base for like six months. She la she lasted not very long.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

And she was basically She was a daisy that was not meant for that life.

SPEAKER_06 47:20

Yeah, and but she also wasn't really a Scientologist. She was a professional at whatever she did and in public relations and marketing and something like that. And somehow she got to Cece and they just fast-tracked her, and she decided to join the C Web. It was because she came straight to international business.

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Yeah, it was when they were recruiting people to be writers at the gold base. And she apparently had some writing experience, which was rare or you know, and she was also common.

SPEAKER_06 47:48

And she was also pretty and she was young, and it was like, yeah, we want this girl.

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:52

Anyway, she gets to the base, she freaks out, she calls her brother. Her brother just drives to Kirby, picks up all her stuff, and she just goes.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_06 48:03

And she was married to my friend Olf. And then Olf, very shortly thereafter, started up another relationship and he was getting together and they were gonna get married. And I said, What about uh the marriage? So he goes, Oh, the guy who married us in the Sea Org, which was a guy named Tom Paquette, he did the marriage ceremony as a minister, a Scientology minister, but he didn't fill he didn't send any papers or anything in.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

He forgot.

SPEAKER_06 48:29

So when when Olf went to get divorced, he was like, Hey, I got a file for this, and and the guy said, Oh, I forgot to know the papers, you're divorced. And then I was like, and I and then I heard about this, and then when I was telling somebody this, they named off like 10 people that had gotten married over the years, that there were no paper, there was no paperwork, they never changed their names, they never did anything. So it's like it's pretty pretty loose on the on the on the government paperwork in Scientology, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Yep. Yeah, no, God, but that's crazy though.

SPEAKER_06 49:01

So for 17 years, you were so at that point, you knew the back rub hands were free to to roam to other well I've known Matt since 1983, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Christmas, Christmas eighty-three.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

That's when you first came to back rub, right?

SPEAKER_03 49:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I'm kidding.

Watchdog Committee Pressure And Collapse

SPEAKER_03 49:23

But I had my eye on you. But when we we became twins on the RPF, we knew each other. We knew each other, and um, we became twins on the RPF, and we were just so similar, you know, and hit it off right away like a lot.

SPEAKER_07 49:43

And Matt and Matt was like, we need to take these back rubs on the road. You gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yeah, so he he like I I was always like, you know, at least somewhat trying to follow the rules because I've been punished so much my in my life, you know. But um Matt Matt was so refreshing because he was like, let's get out of here. What? You know, it's it's my whole life. I don't have anything to go back to, you know, fall back on or whatever, but but he was like, let's just do it. And so it it was it was amazing. We have a whole escape story and everything like that. But yeah, we left. We got out of there. It took us two months of rice and I ate rice and beans for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, being punished, you know, because of it, hard manual labor, um, stuff like that. He made a deal that he didn't have to eat rice and beans if he renovated things for people, but um, I wasn't that smart. But um, yeah, for two months. And then finally it was him that had to say, if if if we're not out of here by noon tomorrow, then you're gonna have to shoot me in the F and head uh and I'm breaking through these gates. And so they got off their butts because they knew that he was serious, you know. And they sent me to Seattle and sent him to Dade City, Florida, where his family is, and we had to find each other, but we did. And as soon as we found each other uh in the real world, you know, a couple like two weeks later, we got married.

SPEAKER_02 51:17

Amazing. And how vindictive is almost yeah, and how vindictive, by the way. I mean, obviously it goes without saying, but they know you want to be together and they send you to opposite sides of the country.

SPEAKER_06 51:29

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

And they don't know where you went, right?

SPEAKER_06 51:32

And that is a very, very if you get sent to the RPF, you get sent to different places. If you get kicked out of the Sea Org, you get sent to different places. They don't want you guys to share your stories and your experiences so that you will basically find out, oh, it was Scientology that was crazy, it wasn't us. That this is a very, very common thread that they do.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Yeah, you don't they don't want you to have the extra strength of being connected up with other people that are like-minded.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Exactly. 100% and who understand what you've been through and all that, and who have witnessed similar abuses and crimes that you've witnessed.

SPEAKER_03 52:07

That's exactly right. Like you guys, you have such a special place in my heart because we we were all there together. I I was on that this disgusting property for 20 years, and you were there. You knew you know exactly um the abuses that happened, the two gruesoms that are enforced, and all these different things. Even though, Mark, somehow, somehow you didn't go to the RPF. I don't know how that happened.

SPEAKER_07 52:35

I was a bit slippery.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Well, to be fair, never get their hands on me. To be fair, he was going to be sent to the rehabilitation project force the morning that he escaped.

SPEAKER_06 52:45

Yeah, and I do want to tell I there was another time where I dodged the RPF twice. And the first time, it's the best because it ties right into your thing, Amy. Okay, rewind.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Why you gave someone a back rub? Shh, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_07 53:01

I was getting the back rubs.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

I wasn't giving them anyway.

SPEAKER_06 53:07

Um rewind 1990. Okay. I've just gotten to the imp base. Um I was a I was 17 years old, and there was not that many other young people at the property. It was a lot of old fogies and people in their 30s and their 40s and their 50s and 60s and all that. But there wasn't a lot of people under 20 that that you could pair up with. There might have been some other ones, but it wasn't anything you were gonna you were gonna work out. So um there was a there was this girl who worked in the meter manufacturing um department, and I worked in the tapes department, and she was about my age. I think she was a little bit older than me or a little bit younger, but she was very close to my age. And um I would get rides home with her to the apartment building. She had a car, she had a like a Toyota, I think I don't remember what it was, but it was a hatchback. Anyway, I would ride with her all the time, and we would hang out a lot. And in I want to say 1991, I'd only been there for a year or so, and um there was some sort of family reunion or s family get-together that it was very important that that I attend. And my mom was gonna go, my sister was gonna go, everyone was gonna go to the wedding. A wedding, and I had to go. And when I went, before you go, you have to get uh an interrogation to find out if you did anything, and then you're gonna get another interrogation when you get back, so you don't try not to do anything bad. Anyway, it just so happened that at the exact same day I was gonna go to go visit my family in um Denver and Missouri, I think, something like that. This other girl from the ma meter department was also gonna go on on leave. So we she gave me a ride down to LA, and then she didn't have a place to stay, and my mom said, Oh, you can stay here at our apartment. My mom had an apartment at 1234 Edgemont, which is just a block away from the complex. So one thing leads to another, and she ends up staying the night at my mom's house, where I'm also staying the night. And we get to doing some stuff, and we fall asleep in the bed in my the room that we were that I was uh would stay in, but she was supposed to stay in that room. I was supposed to be in my my half-brother's room on the his bunk bed or something like that. Anyway, around four o'clock in the morning, my sister is in the Sea Org in Los Angeles, and she would stay at my mom's house because it's only a block away, and she's open, and I hear the keys jingle, jingle, jingle on the door. And the room that we're staying in is the living room of that apartment. So the door is right there. When that door opens, there's gonna be two people that are not supposed to be sleeping in the same bed, sleeping in the same bed. Anyway, so then as soon as I hear that, I jam out of the bed and I go fall asleep in my brother's room.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

And this friends is what we refer to as a mist with hole. Anyway.

Running Around The Palm Tree Punishment

SPEAKER_06 56:24

So, okay, so fast forward, I do my thing. With the next morning, we go our separate ways. She goes to her see her family in Florida, I go to see my family in Missouri, which was a very, very rare thing you could do back then. And only if you were really young and you had just gotten in, because they didn't want your family to think that you were going to be locked up here for the rest of your life. So they they let you go see your family for the wedding or whatever it is. Anyway, so I get back, I get my interrogation, squeaky clean, nothing happened while I was gone. And then okay, so that's 1991. I meet Claire 92, we get married, everything's great.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Well, you met me in September 1991.

SPEAKER_06 57:12

Exactly, but we got married in 1992.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Three months after this? Yeah, three months. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 57:17

Anyway, so then um they in 1993, when they got the IRS recognition, Scientology got uh recognized as a nonprofit in 1993, and they have the whole sports arena thing and the war is over. David Miscavige issued an amnesty. And he said, anybody who did anything in Scientology, if you write it up and turn it into your ethics officer, slate's clean. Okay. So I do that. I just put a bunch of stuff on there. I do not put that on there because I think that's gonna be too much.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

They're gonna they're gonna light me up for that one. See, Amy, your only flaw was that you believed that they would forgive you. Mark knew I knew ahead of time you were gonna forgive me.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

I'll write everything else, but I ain't writing that. Anyway, the way it worked in the in the in-base is you had a computer program that was in a mainframe. So there was a building on the property that had all the tape drives and the computers. And when you wrote something on your little terminal, it was being saved in that thing.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

And and wasn't by this time the the lady that you're talking about, she was already gone from that property. No, no, no. Oh, okay. Skipping ahead. Skipping ahead.

SPEAKER_05 58:28

Okay. Look at my jamming my head off.

SPEAKER_06 58:32

Okay. So I don't write that up. Yeah. Okay, now fast forward to 1994. Okay. And I'm sitting in my in the tapes area, rocking out, checking pancakes. Oh, and by now we we're married. We've been married for at least two years now. And I'm sitting there making tapes, doing my thing, and all of a sudden, this person from the the the police department, department three, the guys that light you up for doing shit, he comes in and he says, Hey, we need to go. I need to talk to you. We need to go and do an interview. And I'm like, Uh-oh. What'd I do? Anyway, so I go to the interview, he's interrogating me, he starts asking me about messing around with this girl. And I'm like, What the hell? Well, that girl had been assigned to the RPF in Los Angeles about a year before this. And during the course of her interrogations, she admits that we did this thing at this one time back in 1992. Anyway, I go, I he starts asking me about it. I go, yeah, yeah, that happened 100%. And he's like, You're gonna go to the RPF. And I was like, I was like, no way. I put it in my amnesty. Now, when I printed, when I did the amnesty, I wrote it in the computer program, but I never actually turned it in. I forgot. I wrote it. He forgot, but I didn't turn it in. Maybe it had some other stuff in there that could have got lit up a little bit for. Anyway, but I never turned it in. So I he I said, It's in my amnesty. If you just pull it out, you'll see I already wrote, I wrote up everything that happened. And he goes, Uh, I don't know. I we think people would have known that if you did that. And I'm like, Well, go look. Anyway, so he goes, So, okay, go back to work. I'll tell you, uh, once I find it, I'll come see you. I'm gonna read it and then I'll determine if how this is gonna go. So I go back to my workspace and I get jam, I jam right in that computer and I add in that paragraph about the thing that happened with the thing back in '92. And then I just save it and go back to work real quick. Anyway, he goes off to the files, he never finds it because I never printed it out and submitted it. And then he comes in and he goes, We can't find it anywhere. We've been through all your folders, we can't find it. And uh I'm like, folders? He's like, Yeah, you have four ethics folders. That's how much of a shit you are. Anyway, so I say, Okay, well, I go, Oh, I did it on the Merck, which is the acronym for this compute internal computer Scientology computer system. I did it on the Merck, I can just print it out. And he's like, Okay, fine. So then I he goes, I'm gonna go with you to make sure you don't do anything like add it in. I'm like, okay, whatever. So we go, we sit down, I open it right up, and I go, see, look, it's right there. And then he goes, Okay, print it off. I printed it off.

unknown 1:01:39

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Dodged a bullet. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:43

See, I knew I would get trouble with it at the time, but there's no way I'd get in trouble with it two years later, after I already told them, and they just missed it, you know. Right. Which they did. They missed it. So I'm sorry. Sorry, it sucks to suck. They missed it. Anyway, and this poor girl was in the RPF wherever she was in the RPF, and then she did eventually, I think, leave the Sea Org from the RPF. Um, and she lives in Florida now, she's got got two kids, and I'm pretty sure she was married to a Scientologist or something, and it didn't all work out. But anyway, um, it was that's why when you said that you'd written it up in your amnesty and you got lit up, I was like, oh, ain't that the truth? Ain't that the truth?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:22

It's a trap. Yeah, somebody said it's a trap. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:26

Yeah, and also whenever somebody leaves the Sea Org and they start speaking out or whatever, they just take all those things that you wrote and you told them, and then they they they sort of craft this narrative that oh, she was a serial, sexy person doing back rubs. And then that's your sort of that's your sort of thing that ever they want to tell everybody about is that you know, this this gal gives great back rubs, you know, and she's a criminal because of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

In the Freedom Magazine, Amy Scobie is a serial sexual deviant with a that can't curb her wanted sexual desire.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:07

Matt's like reading that going, I wish, I totally wish I would be the guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

That is not how you describe me at all. Yeah, repeat adulteress, you know, and like, oh my god. But anyway, crazy, crazy, crazy. But yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:27

It's even funnier that Jim left, and did he legitimately get married? Did they actually get married?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

Yeah, they got married.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:34

So they legit got married, and he was living a whole new life, and you had no clue that any of that had happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

No clue.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:42

That's how segregated they keep husbands and wives in the Sea Org. That your husband can't be able to do that.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:48

Of 17 years, it wasn't leave the Sea Org, leave Scientology, get married, get a job, and you don't even know that any of those things have happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

He was declared everything, the whole thing. And I sent money for this divorce that went to somebody's pocket,$325. Where can you?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:08

Oh, you went to file for a divorce and you paid somebody in the Sea Work to make do all the stuff?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:15

And you were never married. No, and you never got your money back.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

Yeah, uh, I never got, of course not. And plus I had to send any money that Wendell gave me too back. And the gold coins. Oh, yeah, those had to go too. They're probably worth a lot of money now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

I was I was quote unquote married for 20 years in Sior, and then I found out we weren't never married.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:38

No way. For 20 years. Okay. I know some people are gonna ask because it just turns out Matt and Amy both were never officially married when they were officially married. Now, Claire and I, because Claire was underage when we got married.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:53

I was 17.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:54

And I was 19. In order in California, if you're a 19-year-old and you want to marry a 17-year-old, you have to go and get a psychological evaluation. Yeah. Like a legit, you have to go to a legit psychologist and they have to talk to you guys and see if if if I'm bamboozling her, if I got the I got the Gemini mind tricks going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

For some reason, you also, at least I was told that you also had to do a blood test and do some other things.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:22

There's a bunch of stuff you gotta do. So because Scientology frowns upon psychiatry and psychology, they were like, you can't do that. So the common thing there was a ton of people that were young that would get married. So this is all a system that they got worked out. You drive to Las Vegas and you get married at the Clark County Courthouse, which is 24 7 in Las Vegas. You can get married at four o'clock in the morning if you want. I think we actually might have.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

We got married at like one twelve thirty.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:53

Yeah, we got married in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

Yeah, it was past midnight.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:56

Because we left it, we left at LA like in the afternoon, and my dad. Actually, we went to Los Angeles on the we got had to get this all approved through 50 billion people. We went on SAT on we drove down Thursday night. Thursday night, I got a rental car.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Uh no, your dad was in LA, so he was a little bit of a few.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:17

Oh, we went on the run. We went on we got down to Los Angeles. There's a van that drives there ever three times a day, back and forth between uh the in headquarters in Los Angeles, uh the Hollywood Guarantee Building on 6331 Hollywood Boulevard. 90625. Um anyway, um and uh 900 two five two eight. Anyway, we get down to LA, my dad picks us up in Hollywood and drives us to Vegas. We get married in the middle of the night. We drive back. Yeah. We drive straight back to LA.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Yeah. And now it's like five we got back five o'clock in the morning on Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:56

Yeah, so we le didn't left on Friday morning. We got we got off to LA. We went to Vegas on Friday night, got married, back in LA on Saturday in the middle of the night. Our wedding is on Saturday in the in the in the early afternoon at Celebrity Center. We get married, we stay at Celebrity Center in one of their rooms in the hotel there that night, and the next morning Claire has to go back to the base to go back to work. That was our our honeymoon was the night at the manor. That was our honeymoon.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:29

Anyway, so and then when we were at Celebrity Center, we had a Scientology wedding ceremony. So we the day before, this is a very highly debated thing in our family, of when our anniversary is. Because I say it's the day before, because that's when we actually got married. And the Scientology thing meant nothing. So that's not the day, it's the day before.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

So And my argument is yes, but it was after the Scientology ceremony that you sealed the deal.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:59

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

So you seal it.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:03

I know how to give a back rub. Anyway, so so, but this is very convenient for me in case I miss the first day and she says something about it, I'd be like, oh, I thought you always wanted to celebrate it on the second day.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Oh man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:28

Always thinking ahead, you gotta throw a little bit of uncertainty in there and get a little bit of wiggle room on the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

Yeah. And well, we got married on March 13th, which is around. Nice because we wanted because we that's the best. That's the best. It's like a big F you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:45

Happy birthday, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

We got together despite all your nonsense. That's crazy. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:55

I cannot believe we're about to have our anniversary um March 13th coming up right now. Nice 21 years. Yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:04

And that's a perfect segue, folks, because we have a comedy show that's coming up. And it's going to be in Denver, and it's on March 11th.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:13

March 11th.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:14

And if all goes well, we might have a Matt or we might have an Amy there as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:20

He'll be there for sure.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:21

Okay, we're still working on Amy then.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

And and by the way, also to tie into your anniversary, we have an online silent auction which will end at 11.59 p.m. on March 13th. Nice.

unknown 1:09:38

Perfect.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:39

Anyway, uh, we still have tickets available for this. There will be a silent auction. You can buy tickets and then donate them. And this is our comedy for a cause. It's going to be a comedy show. It's going to be a regular comedy show. It's not going to be a comedy show and we're going to make fun of Scientology. It's just a comic. It's just a we got a regular comic that it's a good comic that is very popular at the this club. And he's going to come and do the show. And we're going to have a great time. And it's all the proceeds are going to go to the Aftermath Foundation. Yes. So I just wanted to remind everybody about that. Did you guys want to do um Oh look at I got all these different ones here? Do you guys want to do um some questions? Do we we still have a question?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

Are you guys good with that if we do a few questions before we head out? Awesome. Totally perfect.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:28

Oh wow, we got literally we got all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:31

Uh Martin Ottman, another question for Matt. In the beginning of 1997, a fence was built around the Hacienda Gardens apart uh compound. Do you know the specific uh sorry I'm not sure?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:45

Do you know the specific reason for that?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

Yeah, there you go.

Split Exits, Reunion, And Marriage

SPEAKER_06 1:10:49

No, not particularly. It's just to make it more secure. I mean, uh that of obviously they don't want they didn't want Scientology Sea org members escaping, and they didn't what are you doing? Sorry, I was trying to fix this here. Holy moly Jesus. Um they didn't the Sea Org members if you were escaping from the Sea Org. And it was because they didn't have in and out points of that complex. They've did and also David Miscavige got set up with um he had apartments there now, so they had to secure the location. So not just any Tom Dicker Harry. You used to be able to drive into the hacienda gardens. Used to just be able to drive in and drive all around, in and out, no problem. There wasn't a gate or anything to get into that place.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Yeah, so they built all that. That's one of the things that was happening. Because all the CEO members were gone during the daytime. All day, every day. All the local criminals knew that there was nobody in those apartments. So these guys were coming in there, breaking into the apartments, and then grabbing whatever they can grab.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:52

Can you imagine your CEO number?

SPEAKER_07 1:11:54

You got nothing, and that got two, you got two pennies they scratched together, and they took both of them pennies.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:03

Yeah. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when one of those burglars walks into the apartment and there's like five pairs of nylon worn down pants and nothing else.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:14

47 bunk beds in a two-bedroom apartment. It's like, what the hell? They're three high. They go four high in LA, bitch. We can only do three here because of your stupid apartments.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:30

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:31

Okay, we got another one here.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:32

Okay. Uh, Jason, hi Amy. Remember this one. When David Miscavige gave Tom Cruise the Freedom Medal of Valor, David Miscavige must have felt six feet tall. Okay. Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:46

Sitting next to each other. We were both on the RPF. Matt and I were sitting next to each other watching, we were made to watch this event three times through so that we could become more KSW like Tom Cruise, keeping Scientology working because he was he was supposed to be this sample that we all should strive for. It was the most we looked at each other like, is this for real? Tom, you're the most dedicated Scientologist I know.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:11

I know every single Sea Org member in Unison were like, the fuck? For real. I've been here for 20 years, and this guy, the guy who can run fast and jump off shit, he's the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

Yeah, I'm thinking, even if that was true, you would never say that to the rest of the Sea Org. I'm on McCoy.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:34

It was literally, I remember everyone being like, Are you kidding me? You were talking shit about this guy three years ago about how he was a piece of shit, and now he's the best. It was like, yeah, David Miscavige is such a two-face. It's unbelievable. Okay. We have a few super chats, so I wanted to get those. We got uh oh, super sticker.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

Super sticker, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:59

Um and then um we haven't gotten that in a while. I think we forget to turn off the monetizer monetization when we do the stream, and we don't normally get super chats, but thank you for that. Um okay, gosh, there's so many good ones. I wanted to show this one because this one came in early.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

Okay, question for Amy. Why were the other positions of watchdog committee not filled when you were holding these different posts at the same time? Good question.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:24

They'd all been busted.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

Yeah, people if you're not you don't live very long on those different jobs. Um, and so like when somebody would get busted, then you would just get their sector. Yeah, yeah. When I you had to hold it from the side. On these jobs, you're responsible for everything that happens in that entire sector. Like, for example, when I was WDC Scientology, I was CC, SO, C org, and Scientology at the same time. So it's all organizations basically. And one organization, uh, Tampa, didn't pay their rent, and that created a flap. David Miscavige ordered that I personally pay it,$5,000. That I paid for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:07

So you pay their rent?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

Yeah. So I went and got money from Wendell, um, who was WDC Reserves, Mark Ingbert, Mark Ingbert, who was something or other uh um Mark Yeager, who was WC chairman. I just made somebody in the landlord office, I just made everybody give me money, and then I paid it, but it was like we don't have that money. I had to get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:28

Yeah, no, five thousand dollars is more than you would make in two years of work.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:34

And and so you're held responsible for anything that goes on in that sector. That's so weird. So it was it was a nightmare, and people didn't last very long. But um, I was in there for 11 years.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:45

When did you when did you first start in WDC?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

1990.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:50

Okay, so the girl that got me to the city or 91, 91. The girl that got me to the Amp Base, she was WDC programs, and she wrote this thing. Jennifer Ollie.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:03

Ollie mince. I got in trouble probably when she blew.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:07

Anyway, she was WDC, and she'd only been there for like six months or maybe a year. She was in CMO, the Commodore's Messenger organization in Clearwater, CMO CW. And she got promoted to the Imp base, and then she found out that my sister and I were in the Sea Org in Los Angeles, and so she um put us on a list to come to the Imp base.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

Because she was your friend, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:30

She was our friend from school. We went to Delphi together. And she's in my book, and there's a whole bunch of other stuff about Ollie in my book. Anyway, um she lives in Denver now. She lives in Denver now.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:41

Really? She lives in Denver. She lives in Denver. She's one of the local Scientologists that we'll invite her to the uh comedy show. It's hilarious.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:52

Anyway, but she but she did she was WDC programs. Was she any other WDCs or she was just WDC programs?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

She did she did that job, and then she didn't let she blew. I I went with her to a family function and COB assistant, which was Shelly, assigned me to with as a buddy, as well as uh Kevin Catano as a buddy for her. She has to go to a family thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:18

Yeah, is that where she escaped?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:20

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:22

What she had two watchers and she still got away. How'd she pull that off?

unknown 1:17:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:27

Oh, anyway, it's a long story, but I'm not sure. Anyway, that's amazing though.

Sham Marriages, Divorces, And Control

SPEAKER_06 1:17:31

That's amazing that they were like, she's gonna blow. Yeah, they knew she's she's gonna blow. We gotta have at least not one person, we're gonna have two people watchers. Yeah, and she's still doing that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:43

One was a security guard, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:45

Holy moly! Yeah, totally crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:47

But um, but you know, and then there were other times I wasn't holding all of them at the same time. I held I was holding SOS E N and CC, and then I was assigned gold. Now trying to get around.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:58

You've got to slow down a little bit because some of these people, this is the first time they're ever seeing us. CC is celebrity center, yeah. SO is for the C org. So these are executives that are supposed to be over a certain sector of Scientology, and they're overall they're the ones responsible for expanding and figuring out ways for them to expand and do better and all that.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:21

And Amy's basically telling you that she was doing a bunch of these, and all you really are doing is answering and replying to things that they're doing. And if you get to do the plans and the programs, that's like extra if you're able to get to that level.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:38

Yeah. I mean, but also if you so you were finished evaluations of the of the sector and stuff like that, believe me.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:45

Yeah, but also, so you were covering Corg, which is every organization in the world that is staffed by Sea Org members and Scientology, which is every other organization. So basically, you were responsible for every single organization in the entire world, both C organization and not C organization. You were literally responsible for every single organization in the world that was delivering Scientology to anyone while sitting in eight-hour meetings with David Miscavige, and the only time you can work is when he goes to bed.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:26

Holy moly. Okay, I gotta show one more comment because it's hilarious, and I I'm gonna tell what happened. Um it's from Techie, I'll read it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

Hi from Nebraska. RPF'd twice. The first time I ended up at the imp base, and the second time was for being late to muster twice. Love Matt and Amy's take on it.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:47

Yeah, so in 1993, the base flooded.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:52

1990.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:52

1990, August 1990, the base flooded, and everybody on the property was assigned a condition of confusion, which is the lowest condition that you can be in inside the Sea Org or Scientology or any of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:07

Because that totally makes sense, because of course the Sea Org members we're talking about had everything to do with the base being flooded.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:14

Yeah. So our overts caused excess excess precipitation. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

And mud to slide down that hill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:24

Excess precipitation, which led to excess mud sliding into the property.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:28

Which led to excess punishment for said excess precipitation and excess mud.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:33

Anyway, and the and the deal was that if you were late once, then you had to stay up. If you were late for a muster, there's at least three or four musters a day where all the crew have to line up and be accounted for so they can count the chickens and make sure that none escape the coop during the day or during the night. Okay. So we we get counted. And if you're late at one of those musters, even by 10 seconds that you have to stay up all night and do it all nighter. Do all nighter. You have to work on you just have to work all night. It can be at your own job, it can be at something else, but you're working all night, and then you have to just be there in the morning, just like you don't go home, you don't sleep, you don't do anything, you just work for 24 hours, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:15

Totally makes sense. Excess sleep deprivation is going to really help you be on time to the next muster.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:21

And also have more power over the cumulus maximus clouds that are floating up there.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:27

Anyway, so so he'd get so this guy, old Techie, he gets he's late and he's gotta stay up all night, which is silly because we were staying up all night, every night, anyway. So that's kind of whatever. But what would happen is we would work all night, and then maybe around let's say 6, 7.30, when the sun starts coming up a little bit, you go, hey, you know what? I'm just gonna jam a little catnap in before mustard at 8 30. And then and then everybody's gotta be sure to wake everybody up so that they can get to the mustard. Well, we would sleep in tapes almost every night, and we would some of us would wake up late. Some of us would wake up at like eight and then have just a few minutes to kind of get your shit together, grab a bite and get the muster. And some of us would wake up at 8 27 and have exactly three minutes to run to the other side of the property for muster, wherever muster is by the de the dining hall. Well, Bruce, he uh old techie is late the once. Sorry, he's it's in my book, it's in my book.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:30

Anyway, and then the second time um he gets assigned to the RPF because he's sleeping in tapes, and like at 8 28, the head of tapes is like, go get every she's yelling at everybody in line, somebody go get Bruce. And everybody's like, Fuck that. I'm not gonna get if they call this thing eight seconds earlier, I'm going to the RPF. That's not happening. Anyway, so nobody went and got him, and he was late a second time. And so he was assigned to the RPF, I want to say in Los Angeles, and he hadn't slept for about eight years before he got assigned to the RPF. And he was literally and he was Mark's not exaggerating. This guy was I never saw a week go by where he didn't pull at least one or two all-nighters. It was it was impossible that this man was as smart as he was and technically genius without any sleep. Anyway, he gets a side.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:31

By the way, I know who you are and I love you. And I worked with him so much from my one of my first RPFs to the last. Not to the last, but to the you know, several. But anyway, we work together.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:43

He's a total genius. Anyway, he comes 100%. A few weeks get bought. And also, we're in the middle of trying to fix all these cassette duplicators. No one can figure out how to fix them. There's they're always getting messed up. And everybody that worked in that area had been assigned to the RPF or kicked out of the Sea Org uh six, eight months before this. And so the this old techie guy, he's always fixing these machines, trying to get them going. And now he's gone. So now there's no one who can work on these machines. And so a few weeks goes by, and then David Miscavige is like, Hey, why are you guys not making any progress? And I'm like, You got you guys sent away the dude who was fixing everything. We're we're we're up there without a paddle at this point. And so he gets brought back. He looked like a different person. He had he was standing up straight. Whenever he would be doing stuff, he's always like slouched over a desk just about to fall over from exhaustion. He looks better, he could talk. It was like, oh, this guy's a regular guy if you put sleep in him. And um, anyway, then he we did he'd ended up end up fixing everything, and everything went wonderful. But um, but but he went to the R he got to the base the same way you did, Amy. He went to the RPF, and then the RPF got moved to the base to build all the stuff for Golden Era. And then when he was done, it's funny how the cut the construction always gets finished right before everybody is found not guilty and gets sent back to whatever they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:15

We worked in the same office together, and um, he did all the electronics, and I did all the electrical and electronics logistics. So we we worked in the same office together. We had a crow in there too. But anyway, he I noticed that he wrote, I woke up and saw them all mustering out the window. Oops, could have made it by busting the window.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:32

Oh, is that is this did he make a comment?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:37

Oh, Claire, you gotta find it. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:39

It's at the bottom. Oh okay, good.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:42

We'll get it. We'll put it oh yeah, here it is. Okay, good. Old techie says, I woke up and saw them. How crazy is it that I can tell a story and the person the story is about can tell us the side of their story.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:52

Yeah, I love it. Could have made it by busting the window. Yeah, exactly.

Restricted Lists, Bus Checks, And Sleep Deprivation

SPEAKER_06 1:25:56

Um, with that, and so uh to be fair, at this time we were mustering in front of the manufacturing building. And so tapes was right inside. And there was a the tapes technician office, is where him and this other guy, Bob, they would sometimes sleep in there. And in that office, it had a it was a small little you couldn't you couldn't even go in there and change your mind. It was tight, okay? But it had a desk and a chair, and that's what it fit. And if you pulled the if you pulled the chair out, so that's a bit that's a bed. If it you got a length of a desk, that might as well be a carpet bed. Um so when he did wake up, like I think somebody did actually try to wake him up, but he just hadn't slept in so many days that he just didn't didn't wake up. Anyway, I mean believe me.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:45

I could imagine him looking out that window being like, oh man. I mean, the torture, the torture with the no sleep there, God, that not only did we see other people going through it, but us going through it. I mean, I remember one time on the RPF, I'd I don't know how many days I'd been up, but um, I remember it was freezing outside. I was running everywhere I went because I was on the RPF and I I was trying to get to the other side of the property, and I'm trying to figure out where I can just lay down for just a couple minutes. And I finally went to the high voltage room because nobody was going to disturb me there. And I laid on a freezing cold concrete floor, just tears flowing, you know, and I wasn't one to cry or complain. I just it just was I was done physically. And when I got off the RPF, they didn't have any birthing, so I was stuck into an electrical closet with a chair, and that's where I literally slept. Was this at the end base? Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:42

Which which room was this? Is the one by the music studio?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:46

Do you know right across from John Horwich's house?

SPEAKER_06 1:27:49

Yeah. That's that little that's where you were living inside of that. It's it's literally like a little baby hut that is built around a bunch of transformers and power equipment. And you were sleeping on the floor next to the equipment on a chair.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:05

Where that one was in a chair, but where I found to sleep was one that was another closet room with a concrete floor. But anyway, nobody could find me. I finally heard started like hearing somebody calling my name and I woke up. But yeah, that's the best.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:20

At the property at the international headquarters, it was very often a level of punishment that you would be what's called restricted to the base. So if you if you did something wrong and you get your hand slapped, it's no big deal. But if somebody really wants to be like, hey, you know what? You never this is you're in big trouble. You would get assigned lower conditions, and because they would think this person might escape if they're still going to birthing to the apartments that we lived in in Hemet or San Yocento, then we might keep want want to keep these people locked up here on the property so they don't skedaddle on us while they're in big trouble. And so it would be called restricted. If you were restricted, then that means you couldn't leave the property for any reason by yourself and usually with anybody else either. They just you just were locked on the property. And there were hundreds of people like this on the property that were out of uh maybe 800 people that were in this site, sort of could be anywhere from 20 to 100 people in this sort of category of being restricted to the base. And there was a list, it was called the restricted list. If you were on the restricted list, even if you got on the bus, the security guards would walk all the aisles of the bus before it would leave the property, and they'd go through each alley. They knew they would knew every single person who was on the restricted list, and they'd be like, Nope, you got to get off. And the person would argue, be like, Well, what? I finished my thing and it goes, you didn't get it approved by the last person. It's got to be approved before you can go home. This person may have not been home in nine months, and then they want to go home and see their wife or their husband or their whatever. And then, no, you get pulled off the bus. So these people that are on this restricted list, there's no place for them to live on the property. And sometimes you could be on the list for years that you would were not allowed to leave the property. I remember, I think I might have held one of the world records. I think it was like a year or two that I was restricted to the property when I was in the cinematography department. And because all of the scripts that L. Run Hubbard ordered be written in the 1970s, I hadn't gotten it done in the n in the 2000s. So I wasn't allowed to leave the property until all these films, like 50 films, had scripts written for them. I was not allowed to leave the property. So I lived in a I lived above a hallway in the film studio that we worked in that was just, you know, a hop, skip, and a jump. And literally I had to climb up a wall that I would always leave a sets ladder at. And I would climb up this ladder into this loft area and I would sleep up there. And I had a bed, an alarm clock. I had a whole setup up there. And um that's where I lived for a year. But everybody like that has to find their spot. And Amy's spot was an electrical switch there.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:17

I got a s I got assigned to the base, you know, restricted to the base so many times. So many times, you know, it's it was just a punishment. And the other thing is when you're talking about these things about like the security guard walking up and down the bus and pulling people off and like terrorizing the it's just normal. And it's not totally normal. And you'll see it, you'll be like, Oh, there's you would see you're in the culture of like it's okay that the security guard's doing that, or that you're being punished, or that you're restricted to the base, or that you're sleeping in a mud pile, or that it's just normal there, you know, and you lose all sense of actual reality and human rights and everything in that sane asylum.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:57

Yeah, were you ever there? I remember in the early days when we'd get on the bus that a list would be passed up and down the aisles, and you had to write your name on the list. Do you remember that? Did were you there when that had to happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:32:10

Yes, you had to have your lit name on the list, and you also had to have in your back pocket the way to happiness booklet.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:16

Yeah, it was literally it was like a secret combination. You had to have your way to happiness book, and you had to lit. I'm telling this is not a joke. It's just in the early 90s. A piece of paper would be passed. You like each person would write their name on this.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:32

But I'm just blown away. You had to have a way to happiness in your back pocket.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:37

Everywhere you went.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:38

Everywhere you went, you would get checked. It was like, do you have your papers? And you would literally pull out your you would pull out your way to happiness book, and then you would they would be like, Okay, you're you're you're good to go. Um this is not a joke. Okay. Everybody would put that in, right? Yeah. Yes. Everybody would write their name on the list. Everybody would write their name on the list. It would go down one aisle of the bus, and then it would go back up the other side of the bus, and then the list had to be handed into the booth. The booth would then look and look on the list and see if any of those people, because they didn't have enough security guards to go through all these buses, they would just everybody would have a all the buses would sort of queue up and make their lists, and then as the bus got up to the guard the guard gate, they'd hand the list over, and then they would the security guards would check. Also, how they would know. I mean, you've got people from every frickin' country and every crack in the in the world, and they're all cat scratching their names on a list, and then the security guards would check the list against the restricted list, and hopefully they didn't let anybody go home that was on the list. Because there would be times all the time where these people had who had been restricted to the list for year, restricted to the base, they'd sneak on that bus, and it would be the and then security guard would be assigned lower conditions and then everybody who hasn't slept is sitting there waiting for this to get sorted out, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:34:09

Yeah, it's 11. When you're telling a story again, again.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:18

Oh, yeah, he said I did those lists. Where is he? Where is he?

SPEAKER_06 1:34:21

Oh what again? What are the chances I'm telling a story and the guy that did the lists is in the chat?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:29

Hey hey Jackson.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:31

It's proof that there's nobody left there at the end base because they're all in the goddamn chat right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:39

Anyway, yes. So Jackson, Gary Jackson Moorhead, was the he was the security chief for many years, or a security guard when he wasn't the security chief.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:52

Yeah. For like 15 years.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:54

Yeah, so he knows everything that I'm saying. He knows I'm telling you the funny parts of it. I'm making it ha ha. La la la. Um anyway, Gary, you know, there's a game I play, a little game I play on my iPad, and um and there's a guy on there, I think he might have been your brother, and his name is Craven. Let's see if anybody gets that. Anyway, okay. Um let's let that one simmer for a little bit. Gary Moorhead maybe had a brother called Craven. Um anyway, um let's read that there.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:30

Martin, Jesus Christ, listening to these stories, I realized that life at the Flagland Base was a walk in the park compared to the gold base.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:37

Oh it's all relative.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:39

I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:40

Would you guys agree with that? Oh, yeah. Being worked anywhere else.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:45

I mean, the flag land the RPF at the FLB was paradise for me compared to being at the in base. And what do you think? I mean, he didn't dance when he was kicked, he when he was kicked off the in base.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:56

I dance in the parking lot. When I said you go into the RPF, you're off the base, you can't come back. I was like, woo! I started doing dancing in the parking lot. Get me off of this place. This place is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:07

I I'd be willing to bet money that the single largest element of it being paradise is the absence of David Miscavige. Yes.

Liability Formulas And Endless Lower Conditions

SPEAKER_06 1:36:15

Because when you were, and this is true, and everybody will tell you this. It was in the Sea Org, if you were at the Int base, David Miscavige would say, You're not gonna be so lucky that you just get to go to the RPF. Like so, as crazy and as horrible as the RPF did, it's horrible to be at the imp base more than being on the RPF. And if you got like the story with Bruce, he got to go to sleep for a few weeks while he was in in Los Angeles on the RPF, and then he got to like get some exercise and he got to, he was a different person when he came back from just being gone for a few weeks or months or whatever it was. So that's how horrible the imp base is, even as horrible as the RPF is. It's that much worse. So, and but if you were in Florida on the RPF and you were doing your thing and it was like, I'm awesome, if David Miscavige came to Florida for a month, it would start getting crazy there too.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:17

Oh, yeah. Crazy just followed him around.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:20

Yeah, it would literally be he's the epicenter of crazy. That's why.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:25

Yeah, but but he is an agitator. So when he comes into that area and he says, why isn't this done? Why isn't that done? Why doesn't that building, why didn't you repaint that building? Why aren't the lawn why are the lawns an inch too long? And then guess who gets to do all that? The RPF is gets sent into a supersonic tsunami of nonsense that they have to kind of have hit teams to do everything that David Miscavige said that needs to be fixed. And that it could be months, it could be years before all those things are done. And then the RPF, it just has to go full blast on it until it's all done. They're essentially the flap catchers. They the anything that goes wrong, they're the ones that get to fix it. Because everybody else has like regular jobs to do that don't include doing that. So, oh here. So he was old techie was 10 days on the RPF, and he says, so good.

unknown 1:38:20

So good.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:22

That's what I'm saying. It's wild, guys. So all the people that were like, gosh, this RPF is horrible. The int base was worse than being on the RPF for most of the people that work there. There's not a lot of people. There's a few people in maybe the accounts department or in certain kind of non-pressure zones of that. And every once in a while they'd catch, they'd catch their own little tsunami too. When David Miscavige finds something misfiled and they have to go through 50 million folders and make sure everything's perfect again and blah, blah, blah. But uh it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:58

Crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:00

Okay, let's do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:00

One of the things one of the things I'll just quickly say, um, one of the things that were implemented on the flag RPF when I was on it was this thing called a final assessment, which is a concoction that was drawn up by David Miscavige where you had to, it's a mixture of different technologies. Um, and you had to like basically, you know, have a floating TA through the whole floating tone arm, like perfect, you know, no twitches on your e-meter the whole time. And it's things about evil purposes on David Miscavige and everything like this, and you and no one can get through it. So you just never could get off the RPF. And I I did a whole submission when I was down there because I was made the bosun of the RPF, so I was in charge, and no one can get through this assessment, and it's a complete piece of crap. So I did this submission of what to do to handle that, and it was approved by the senior case supervisor office and forwarded to David Miscavige, who then assigned those people who approved it to the RPF.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:57

Oh my gosh. Because they forward it to him.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:01

The irony. Hey, we want to get people off the RPF faster. We got to stop doing nonsense, and then it's like, okay, you guys get to go to the RPF too. You approve this.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:10

Crazy, crazy. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:12

I gotta put this thing up with Gary, and then we'll put up a few comments and then we'll wrap this up. Yeah, he says.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:17

Gary Jackson, remember the welcome back, sir, fanfare crap we used to do for that effort.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:24

Yeah, maybe. When he was coming back to the property from snowmobiling in Alaska with Tom Chris, um then he would come back to the property and we would line up like the presidents arriving, and it would be like, oh, look at and that every gray blade of grass was perfect, and all the entire base had been white gloved for three weeks nonstop, and we finished this building and we finished this project and we finished this tape series. It would be like, look at all the things we did. So please don't beat us, please don't torture us anymore. And then invariably, half of the people that did something, it would be, oh, you did it wrong, or you did this, and oh, it's screwed up, it needs to be redone. You guys, I can't, you guys can't do anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:16

I can never leave here. How am I gonna go snowball mealing with Tom in Alaska if I've got to be here with you guys all the time?

SPEAKER_06 1:41:24

Anyway, it's insanity. Yes, Gary, thank you. Um, there Angel Cat something. Angel Cat.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:32

Thank you for the super sticker, Angel Cat.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:35

Yeah, thanks, guys. Okay, anything else? Let's do um we do the shout-outs at the end because uh um we that we try to make people stay till the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:42

But um Angela, hi all from the south of France, where it's 8 41 p.m. Love Angela. Nice, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:49

Yes, awesome. Um let's see if we've got anybody else. Oh, I don't see any more. Oh, here they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:55

Sherry, greetings from Moorhead, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:58

That's hilarious. Gary gets that. Moorhead, Sherry, and Minnesota. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:05

Um Mary Kay, hi from Albuquerque. Thanks for joining us. Uh Poodlebone, hello from New York City. Becky, good evening, all. So excited to hear from Mark, Claire, Matt, and Amy. Yes, thank you, Matt and Amy, for joining us. We we miss chatting with you. It's always um fun and reflective, and I will say I always learn something new.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:28

Something new. Same with us with you. Yes. Old Techie, we got a day off when we finished the music studio. Saw Top Gun. Oh, the irony. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_07 1:42:40

Oh my gosh. Little would they know years later he would be their arch enemy.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:45

Yes, Jason says the the RPF concept was stolen by Hubbard from the U.S. Navy's restriction policy. Try Google searching it. I was in the U.S. Navy. Yes, there you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:56

I've heard about this, that a lot of the even I saw a movie the other day, I don't remember which movie it was, but it had a flashback to early wartime. And they had a thing called the it was either called the duties chart or something like that, and it was dymo labels that would show the whole organization of the military unit. And it it's just how what the orc board is in Scientology. I had no idea that that was just stolen wholesale from.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:26

Oh no, completely. Even the concept of, you know, in in Scientology organization policy, um, you cannot have an org structure that requires that you have more than five people underneath you, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:43:39

Five people directly. Directly, that's report to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:43

That exact concept I read about in trauma and um gosh, now I'm blanking on the name of the book. Um anyway, the the book about um PTSD, they came up with that number of five when they were doing studies on desertions in the military, and they found that if you keep them with uh units of five, they're far less likely to desert because they're loyal to those that they work with. Yes, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:12

That's insanity.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:14

Wow. Okay, oh, look at this.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:17

Uh one love, it's always a pleasure to see Amy and Matt. I missed the channel. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:23

Nice. Okay, this is a question for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:26

Do you get a fancy diploma too if you successfully complete the rehabilitation project for us like those OTs get?

SPEAKER_07 1:44:34

No diplomas? No. Uh no diplomas.

Miscavige’s Spectacles And “Welcome Back” Theater

SPEAKER_03 1:44:37

Not even a certificate of completion. What you have to do when you finish and your graduation um submission is approved, like you have to submit like all your folders and everything with a whole completion showing how every aspect of your life has been made pure. And um, once that's approved by the powers that be, and it takes a long time and it takes forever, um, then you go back to your organization or an organization that they traded you to, um, and you have to get everybody to sign a liability formula. Like so that's the first thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:14

That's the first thing when you've done this thing, could have been for two years, could have been for 10 years. As soon as you're done with that, now you have to get out, you have to go through these punishment stages of the group that you're trying to get back into. Because you were in the evil group with the RPF people, and now you've graduated from that, but you have to get the permission to rejoin the group.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:38

Unbelievable. And you and you and basically every member you have to get assigned hundreds of people.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:44

You have to get it says you have to get a a majority approval, or you have to get approval from a majority of the group. So in Golden Era Productions, depending on the crew size, it was like literally, I think it was like you had to get like 66 and a and a and a sixth, you know, pr pr th a third of the uh two-thirds of the crew or I don't remember what it was in gold, but it was like it was always like if there was 350 people in gold, it was sort of generally agreed that you have to get at least 300 signatures to get out a liability.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:21

Yeah, and it's not like you could go around during your day to get them to sign that you'd have to be meal time. Yeah, during meal time. So yeah, I mean I remember a few times it would take like two or three weeks of you just would skip meals just so you could pass out your formula and you know, and I always you're like finally getting 15 minutes to eat and you've got four people's liability for a week.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:42

I was just gonna say that. There's like it's like, and sometimes you'd see a formula like, oh dude, you didn't have to do Ben her the formula, dude.

SPEAKER_07 1:46:50

Like, Jesus. I've only got eight minutes left to like get everything done, and you that's like 10 pages long.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:57

And by the way, you'd think that, well, hey, with a 15-minute bus ride to where we were sleeping, that you could pass them out then. But no, because that would be out security, you have the property.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:11

One of these liability formulas would have sometimes the people would have you you have to basically, in the formula, the way it's written, it's a it's a specifically laid-out set of steps that L. Ron Hubbard wrote, and all of the conditions of existence formulas have these, but in liability, it's basically like you have to tell everybody why you were a shithead.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:32

It's one, decide who are one's friends.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:35

Two, deliver an effective blow to the enemy of the group.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:38

You look at old three, make a cyborg over here knows them by heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:42

Cyborg. Wow, thanks, honey.

SPEAKER_07 1:47:45

Yeah, a cybot, assigned to the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:48

Step four is um ask for permission to rejoin the group by majority. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:54

So you have to get all those, but you have to basically tell the whole story of like, I got assigned liability because I'm a fucked art, whatever. And then you have to say, and then you have to say, I w I did this and I did this. You have to basically suck up.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:08

On the amends, though, it says you have to you have to make up the damage one has done by you know, but it says despite personality. Despite personal danger, yeah to the group you've been pretending to be a part of, despite personal danger.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:21

So you have to stay in there how you delivered effective blow to yourself, yeah, how and how it was personal, personally dangerous and all that. Oh my god, it's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:31

I had to clean up a toilet in the lodges because I had destroyed that toilet many times before, and it was very personally dangerous because the toilet and I were enemies.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:43

No, but the amount of times that people would say, Oh, you know, I stayed up all night and I did this and I did this, and uh, you know, anyway, whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:51

But but the crazy part of this is that you have to air all this out to every single person in the entire organization, and then they get to decide if it's this or if it's this. Because if you don't get the 300 signatures, you can't get out of the condition. You're locked you're stuck. And so some people that were sort of prickly all the time, they would have a hard time getting everybody to sign for them because you're like, dude, every time I interact with you, you're the biggest a-hole in the world. I ain't signing shit. And in fact, if they were a real uh uh prickly guy, you would it at the bottom of it it said approved to join the re the group, it would say approved and disapproved. And people would be like, Screw you, Timmy.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:38

I hate you.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:39

You know, so but it was literally disapproved.

SPEAKER_06 1:49:42

You would literally have to somebody with a yeah, you'd have to suck up to everybody and be like this. And you and in order to get 300 signatures, you almost had to pass out three hundred copies of your thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:54

Yeah, and but also because anyone el anyone else that was also in a lower condition, they were not quite. Qualified. Oh yeah, they're off the list.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:02

Right. Well, I remember at those times it'd be like, you only have to get 100 signatures because there's 200 people in lower conditions. Yeah, whatever it is, you you get it, you get you get cut a break.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:15

But and then there were times where the entire property was assigned the condition, but we weren't allowed to ever it was a it was a weird thing, right? Because it was a catch-22, because the entire property was signed a condition of liability. So how can you get back into the group if the whole group is in liability? Yeah. And so it was basically a way that David Miscavige should could short circuit the system so that everybody would always stay in lower conditions because there was no technically way that you could get out of lower conditions because there was no group to rejoin. It's it was it is the biggest mind F in the world at that place.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:54

He also did it as organizational conditions, like like CMO Congress Messenger Org International is in a condition of confusion, and so you can't get out of it until he approves it, and he's not gonna approve it because you're still in confusion. And so you we're just always uh you know under punishment and penalty and whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:13

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:15

Well, uh Catherine, thank Catherine. One of the wrenches in the chat. Thank you, Catherine. She says Dave Jong un.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:21

Yes, completely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:24

Um, okay, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:26

I think we'll wrap it up. We've taken enough of your time. It's always such a pleasure to have you both. And um anyway, we really appreciate your insights and for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:36

If you guys uh if you want to give uh Matt and Amy a shout out in the comments, I I put them up while the end ed and uh outro is playing. Yes. So you guys can get your comments up in the video. Yes. But um thank you, thank you to everybody who watched until the end. And hey, there's a ton of people that watch that aren't subscribed. We I think we're almost about 30, we're in the high 30,000s. We're trying to get up to 40,000 eventually. So if you're in there, um jam, jam a like and subscribe. And you can also hype videos now, I'm told. Oh, there's a hype button.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:11

Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:13

Hype it up. This was a good one. We got to tell lots of stories about the RPF and give you a good kind of idea how crazy it is and how crazy the property is and and the whole thing. Scientology, the C org, it's all nuts.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:27

Crazy, crazy. I'm just so grateful.

Q&A: Fences, WDC Overload, And Final Notes

SPEAKER_03 1:52:29

Yes, yes, go ahead. I just want to say I saw a lot of your comments and um you know, with nice wishes and everything for me and Matt. And I just thank you so much for that. I wanted to acknowledge every one of you. Um, thank you for that. And I also wanted to say today we went to war with Iran, and so I pray for the protection of all civilians and the rapid end of this war and our troops brought home safely. Absolutely. I just wanted to say that because it's right in our face right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:00

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:02

Awesome, guys. Okay, thank you. We will see you next time. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:07

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:10

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