Scientology’s New Child Pipeline - Secrets of Scientology #8

Scientology doesn’t need to say “join us” when it can start with cartoon books, “communication” drills, and a Saturday activity that looks like harmless family fun. We dig into newly promoted Scientology kids’ courses tied to Clearwater’s Flag Land Base and shared by reporters like Tony Ortega, and we explain why this kind of soft launch can be one of the most effective forms of cult indoctrination.

We start by setting the stage with L. Ron Hubbard’s own words about children and discipline, then connect those ideas to real-life mechanisms: auditing as invasive “counseling,” the e-meter treated as always right, and the way “overts and withholds” can teach kids that confession equals safety. From there, we talk about what this does to a family system, including how children can be pushed into reporting on parents and how fear of disconnection keeps everyone compliant. A UK High Court custody ruling puts it plainly, describing ruthless discipline and “training for slavery,” and we explain why that language matches what many former members lived.

Then we pivot to another piece of Scientology machinery: the Cause Resurgence Rundown, also known as the running program. We break down what it actually involves, why it was created, and why the “12,000 completions” milestone since 2013 is more revealing than impressive, especially when people repeat it and it’s marketed as a shortcut to “OT abilities.” If you’re searching for Scientology exposed, Sea Org recruitment, Child Dianetics, disconnection, or Clearwater Scientology tactics, this conversation is a grounded walkthrough from people who were raised in it.

If this helped you see the patterns more clearly, subscribe, share the episode with someone who needs context, and leave a review so more listeners can find it.

Transcript

Welcome And What’s Ahead

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to another episode of Blown for Good Scientology Exposed. I am joined here today by my lovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hey, hey, hey, everybody. Happy Sunday.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Yeah, we got um we got some big stuff coming up on um workwise. So I think probably next week's video will be the last live that we do with when with with me. Yes. If you do any other ones.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yes, but that will so April will be the month that we launch my new Cult Survivor series.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yes, that's right. Yes. April 7th, I think. The first Sunday of April, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, we'll double check. We'll post it. So awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Well, today we have um Tony Ortega and um Chris Shelton uh did a video on this. Um or cr uh Chris did a video on Tony's blog, Tony Ortega's blog. But um one of these um Scientology organizations of Florida, the the uh Clearwater, the Flag Land Base, put out this uh brochure, I guess you call it. Or it's all for all of Scientology.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, it's for all of Scientology, and it was announced apparently at the L. Ron Hubbard birthday event.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Um there yeah, it was information provided by apostate Alex to Tony. Um and obviously anyway, yeah, we we I I feel very strongly about this topic.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

So that's what we're gonna talk about today. Um do we want to get just get right into it? Because it's a lot.

Scientology’s New Kids’ Courses

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yes, sure thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Skadoche.

Hubbard’s Views On Children

SPEAKER_00 2:07

So Scientology's latest target children. So yes, it um as was posted on Tony's blog, there was a whole new set of courses and materials specifically targeting children. And there's two sets. One is for ages five to seven, and then the cartoony ones, yeah. And then seven to whatever it is, I think fifteen or something like that. Um, anyway, uh yeah, so before we talk about it, we figured it would be just worthwhile to set the stage of L. Ron Hubbard's perspective on children.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Perfect. Yeah, that's a good setup.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Right. Because, you know, hey, if you're talking about, well, you're you're targeting children. So if you're targeting children, what's your perspective on children? And here it is. So this is an L. Ron Hubbard quote from the State of Man lecture on marriage from January 2nd, 1960. He said, quote, now when children have too many overts and withholds against their parents, they make life miserable for their parents. We don't care if the children left the family or not. Actually, Roman children used to get official posts and jobs and get married by the time they were 14 or 15, which is about the right time. You think I'm joking? I'm not. And I'm not saying that college is a totally bad operation. I didn't say that. I just think so. That's an opinion. But it does seem that it puts an awful postponement on marriage. I mean, what the actual heck? We're now the Romans are now how we should base raising our children. Do we not know that they failed as a civilization?

SPEAKER_03 3:56

Well, the funny thing about that is is that like the pro most likely the average lifespan of a Roman was 20.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

So it's probably between 20 and 30 years. Right. And so if you have the kids uh starting when they're 20, then you're not gonna get that much out of them in the in the military or whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

And you're not gonna get any any um offspring reproductive reproductive activity anyway.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Somebody should look that up.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

What's the life expectancy of a Roman in the Roman times? Um And also, uh was he did he read about this or is he saying this is how it was? What because I, you know, I traveled back in time and was there.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Probably the latter, because L. Ron Hubbard also insists that newborn babies should be fed barley formula that is also based on a formula that was allegedly given to Roman soldiers.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Another, which another I'd like to make a point on that. Very possibly uh one of the few things that they had that they could just boil in some water and eat. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Exactly. Yeah. And allegedly, L. Ron Hubbard, who is not a doctor, he's not a scientist, nor is he a pediatrician, nor is he uh an opinion leader or well educated on the subject of newborn babies.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

He is also maybe one of the top ten uh horrible dads. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah, exactly. Didn't he like leave his kid in a car? Oh, there's so many things. He kidnapped his child.

SPEAKER_03 5:43

He but he kidnapped her after he left her in a car while he did a lecture.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah. I'm just saying, you know, you want to you want to consider a topic, then look at the author of said topic, especially if they're presenting as an authority. Yeah, here's another good one. Okay. So this is from Child Dianetics, Dianetic Processing for Children, which is counseling. Uh anyway, he says, quote, the child doesn't strike back because he isn't big enough. He gets your floor muddy, interrupts your nap, destroys the piece of the home instead. This quote unquote revenge is standard child behavior. If the child can't get the point in a calm talk about it, you'll simply have to get an auditor to process him a little, meaning do Scientology counseling with him. You can actually punish a child physically. This is L. Ryan Hubbard talking to defend your rights so long as he owns what he owns and can contribute to you and work for you. Again, this is addressed addressed to a parent about your child.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

If your kid has some stuff, you can beat him.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yeah, so long as he works for you, then you can do whatever you want and you can defend your rights.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah, if he can contribute, then you can beat him. That's that's that's the that's the that's the determining factor for beating.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Okay, and so here's the sad part, because this mirrors to me how I was raised. Like if you're not contributing and you know, it being in exchange as as it's referred to in Scientology, in your family, then you are punished.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I never knew that this was in that book.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

This is why my mom beat the crap out of me full time. It literally says you can punish a child physically.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah. Um, and then this quote is um from Dianetics, the modern science of mental health.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Published in 1950.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

This is Elrond Hubbard's.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Very modern, very modern.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, this is one of the worst. I mean, there are some understand, we're not including all of them. There are endless quotes that are damning about Hubbard's perspective on children. These are just some to again set the stage of what we're talking about here.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

And they're in things that they can't easily make disappear. Yes. Because they've been doing with the lectures, they've been doing this for years and years and years. They edit out anything that could be a little sketch.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Right.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Uh uh slurs that he used.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Um, if he talks about insanity, um, things that are like wildly not cool now.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

They're edit they've been editing that stuff out of Elrond Hubbard's lectures since he's been giving them.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yes. So this quote is from again from Dianetics, book one, as it's referred to. Quote The seven-year-old girl who shudders because a man kisses her is not computing. She is reacting to an engram since at seven she should see nothing wrong in a kiss, not even a passionate one. From a man. There must have been an earlier experience, possibly prenatal, which made men or kissing very bad.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

I mean that that that when it says prenatal, that means when the the thetan or the body or the the mind of the kid was in the womb, and then there was some sort of thing happening in the in the the world outside the mom, and and somehow also she might have got hit or something, and then that created what's called an engram. And that's what you get rid of at Dianetics. So that's why he's he's talking about it like this is that he's ex he's really trying to explain something else about the prenatal engrams, and then he just says this off the cuff.

Rebranding Intro Courses For Kids

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah, which um and again, anyway, it says it it speaks for itself.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I think it's a good setup.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Yeah. So on March 16th, a reel was posted on Instagram unveiling a new set of Scientology books targeting children. Quote, it was a realization that when knowledge is applied, life expands, all this knowledge is becoming available for kids, unquote, the caption reads. Tony Ortega was the first to shed light on this on his sub stack. And yes, we're adding the link, the links that we'll be discussing here today to the video description.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Yeah. And also, these books, they're not new books. No, they are the same books, like if you go on the their website and you do like introductory courses, there's uh, you know, how uh personal values and integrity. Personal values and integrity. I think I'm in that. That's the one I'm in.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

You were in an earlier version of this.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Anyway, um they have all these little courses. They're very, very light uh Scientology and they've been what they've been watered down. So there's no like all the words that get used in Scientology that people have no idea what those are. They've taken all that out and they've sort of like whitebreded it up so that anybody can read it and kind of get an idea what what L Ron Hubbard's talking about. And all they did for this one is they just repackaged that for kids and they maybe kitted it up a little art graphics and artwork or you know, artwork targeted to the younger generation.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And what's so disturbing about this, uh I mean, there's many things disturbing about it, but specifically, I would classify this as soft promotion of Scientology to children. 100% that then only serves to normalize the Scientology mindset when they get older. And it's carefully built into these things to believe that if you question anything or if you don't agree or anything, that's bad.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

It's like literally numbing critical thinking for children.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

And you can see the well, maybe you can't see, I can barely see it, but it's like how the mind works, assists. Um, and you can see they have the on the bottom row of this picture. Let's see if we can go back one if it oh no, that is it. Um on the bottom row of the picture is the is the like the teenager version, and then on the top is the younger kid version. Um, but they it's the same book on the top as the bottom, it's just the two different versions for the the age ranking.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Clara just said she has a list of titles on a later slide.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

Oh, okay, good.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Um Alex Barnes Ross also shared promotional materials that feature activities geared towards kids while calling this a quote, a new golden age, unquote. It's always a new golden age, and now this is for to target the most vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

And in the picture, it's all these kids going into the celebrity center of all places in Los Angeles. The Scientology Celebrity Center, which is a real thing. Yeah. If you're a new uh listener or watcher, uh 5930 Franklin Avenue, there is uh the Chateau Elise building, which was it's actually uh the uh I can't remember, I think it's like J one of JP Morgan's no Hearst's, one of Hurst's like uh mistresses or or wife or s girlfriend or something. When she divorced him or split up with him, he gave her a ton of money and she built this castle in Hollywood. Anyway, that is now the it's a it's it's literally like a a castle in the middle of Hollywood and uh a French uh French design chateau and um and they have all these kids going into there.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah, and then they also have one for Melbourne. But what's so part of what's so disturbing to me about these particular images is it's like, oh, bring your children in. If it has like chitty chitty bang bang vibes to me. Well, complimentary brunch, yeah. Um bouncy house, a petting zoo, face painting, petting zoo. Bring your children while we indoctrinate them in the ways of a cult.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

And and Melbourne, too, balloon art, face painting, Easter egg hunt, which what's the irony there, by the way? Easter egg hunt?

SPEAKER_03 14:31

That's why.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Really? You guys are anti-Christianity.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Oh, these are coming up. Yes, they haven't even happened yet. This one of them's happening right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Oh, how how to 22 March.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

It's if it's at all if it's at the celebrities.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

It's happening right now. It's one it started an hour ago.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Holy Oh my god.

The Book List And Hidden Messaging

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Look at this. I just saw this. Ribbon cutting, 12 p.m. Roll call 1 p.m. Are you kidding me right now?

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Where do you see that?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

On this on the celebrity center.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Oh, I can't see under uh that has the slide.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

It says roll call.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Holy mo. That means that's what they do right before you start the course.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

That's a dude. Can you imagine you're going to pet some donkeys and then a six-scale-screen?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Talk about a bait and switch. Yeah, yeah. Never mind, it's time for cult indoctrination.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

You get two one or two pets in, and then you're in the course room for the rest of the day learning about gobbledygook.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

I if they should just tell everybody about the aliens, the body thetans, because then kids would be into it. Be like, hey, we're gonna play with aliens today.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah. And and also, too, I it's horrible. I know, it is absolutely terrible. Um okay. Well, I'll say what I was gonna say later. So for young kids, oh, there we go. So yeah, ages seven and up, ages ten to a hundred, does that say? Anyway, sequence for placing sequence for placing books on the bookshelf, left to right. There's a sequence for the books.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Because you can't there's a book seek is it say that? This is insanity.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

It says right there, sequence for placing books on the bookshelf left to right.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

What the fuck? Because God forbid they have a skipped gradient, God forbid they find out about uh doing doing Xenu stuff before they find out about brushing their teeth and the way to happiness.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Oh my god, this literally makes me so angry. Anyway, okay, kids' books. So here we go. Here's the listing. So for kids, and again, this is what did it say? Well, seven and up.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah, but this is the thing. With the one that says kids book and the one that says teen books, it's the same books. They've just renamed it and they've kind of uh, you know, they've slimmed it, they made it, they've dumbed it, dumbed it down. Yeah, so that it that it's like a pretty good thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Like how to be happy, they've probably removed the word promiscuous, for example.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Uh, from the 21 precepts of the way to happiness. One of them is don't be promiscuous.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Um somebody should get their hands on these, because I guarantee you there's gonna be a bunch of these, like, hey, you gotta do what your parents say, otherwise you're out exchange and you, you know, the balance of power is gonna be twisted. Okay, you want to read them?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, so for the young kids, it's how to be happy, honesty, start, change, stop, which is the cycle of action in Scientology, confront drills, so that's training routines, assists, how the mind works. That's again indoctrinating them that they have a reactive mind, and only Scientology can help them with that. The eight parts of life, which is of course the eight dynamics, body, mind, thetain, the tone levels. Again, you can't complain about anything, otherwise, you're you're a bad kid and you're being downtone and banky.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Uh, and ARC, Affinity Reality Communication. So that's for the kids like seven years old, teens books, the 21 Steps to Happiness, of course, that's the way to happiness, honesty and survival, how control works. Oh, and by the way, that includes that if you rebel against control, you're a bad kid.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

You can't control yourself, so you can't be controlled by others either. But in Scientology, this is a very key kind of little nugget that lives inside Scientology's uh You mean a control mechanism? If you are not willing to be controlled, like told what to do and and moved somewhere and get to work or something like that, that means that you have overts and that you're not good at controlling other people. So if you if you're not willing to be controlled, that limits your ability to control others.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

And so um uh the other thing I was thinking about is Scientology doesn't do anything for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Aaron Ross Powell No, they don't. I I have some theories. We'll get to this at the end.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Oh, I just wanted to say it right now.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Okay. They don't do anything for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

The things they do are basically things that either Scientologists or or people that work in the organizations have said this is a major problem right now. And then that then Scientology says, hmm, we're losing a lot of people because of this reason, so we need to figure out why that's happening and then fix it. And what this means to me when I see this, uh what I see is that Scientologists are having kids and the kids are like, see I wouldn't want to be you. I ain't having anything to do with your crazy space alien cult that was written by a comic book writer from the 1940s. No way, no how. And so now they gotta get there, they're basically like, hey, if you want your kids to be Scientologists, you gotta start working on them really early.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yes. Including bringing them into the Scientology organizations, because I might be wrong about this, but I believe that there are courts there were courses like this at some of the Scientology schools.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

And they they're not they're very similar. It's this a similar idea. It's a in at Delphi, at the Scientology School that I went to, and even Apple School, they had the the I think it was called the the study course or the the world word clearing book or some you know, they had these things that you would learn how to read and how to look up words and understand words.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

And you'd learn the three barriers to study and all those pieces, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Yeah, it was a red book. I remember it was a red book.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

And it was and I don't oh the basic study manual. The BSM, the basic study manual.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

And that was a course that didn't have a lot of Scientologies in it. It still actually had some in it.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

But it was way, way watered down, and that all the kids at all the Scientology schools, that's one of the very first things you have to do when you go to this school. Yes. Is you have to do the basic study manual course. And then there was another book at Delphi called The Factor. That was, I don't what was it? It was called Gosh, Sasha was here, he would have remembered. It was called The Thinking Book.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Oh God, I haven't heard of that one.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

And it would teach you about how L. Ron Hubbard how there were outpoints and plus points. And so if you would learn all the outpoints, omitted data, emitted the, you know, all the false data, false data. All whatever all the emits are the outpoints. outpoints the list of outpoints were and then it had the list of plus points and then so you would be trained when you're twelve to th how to think like a Scientologist at a s and you're you know how to think like a madman.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

That's really great. Anyway so all of these courses um have been around for years and years and years and I bet you and also the fundamental orientation of all of these is that Scientology you need you have to have Scientology in your life. The only thing that's wrong with you is you need to go up the the bridge to total freedom and all that. And and again like I said built into this is the fact that if you don't want to continue in Scientology you're a bad person or if you want to get out of there you're a bad person. You know all these things.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

And and especially so yeah you're right the the these courses I I just want to make sure that everybody understands this. These courses are not new. Nope they're not really any different than the courses that have been out here forever. They just kitted them up with some the anime the design and the animation and they may or may not have watered down the one that's for the kids as opposed to the teens I'd I'd be surprised if the teens one is any different than just a regular c uh extension course. That's what they're called these are all called Scientology extension courses. And if you look on the Scientology bridge to total freedom it has these things that are called routes to the bridge and one of the routes to the bridge is introductory courses.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yes and this exactly is exactly what these are what is new is a broad scale targeted strategy of children to get them into these courses in Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 23:50

Yeah I'm gonna guess that every Scientology parent had to buy one of these one of these kits of all these books and then all of the Scientology schools will now have these courses in in in their curriculum so that they can teach Scientology in the Scientology schools. The Scientology school that I went to there weren't only Scientologists that went there.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Right and that was the same for me I went to the UK version of Delphi which is greenfields and while I would say 80% of the student body were Scientologists there was a good 20% that were not.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Yeah that's I I don't think it was 20% at Delphi but it was probably five five percent of just people that wanted to send their kids to a private school that was in the area kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

And that they taught them some weird shit okay fine oh my God boiling I cannot imagine today like a a non-scientologist sending their kid to a a Scientology school and not just be going like the you know there's no way you would do that unless you're a well out there.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Though apostate Alex talked about how Greenfields was targeting students from abroad um to come in as true over you know from overseas.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

Well those are boarding schools right that Delphi I bet you Delphi Oregon because Delphi board uh Oregon is a boarding school um I bet you that they had some some wild stuff like that for for that for there.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Mainly the Scientology schools are for Scientologist children. Like families that are in Scientology that that have kids they usually are sending them to the schools.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Next one Oh you know what Catherine Olson just said uh the thinking book is on Amazon.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Hey how crazy is it I remember the book that I read when I was 10 I know that is crazy.

Growing Up In Org Courses

SPEAKER_00 26:02

I mean some of these things you just can't forget is it really called the thinking book? Yeah and I mean I didn't click on the link but um awesome can you read these things that I put up here? Yes so this is from Church of Scientology San Francisco. Have kids there are four courses your kids can take at the Church of Scientology in San Francisco children's communication course learning how to learn how to use a dictionary grammar communication invaluable courses to set your kids up to succeed. Yeah why not indoct indoctrinate your children in a cult? What could possibly go wrong? Scientology social media accounts including San Francisco Las Vegas have been posting videos to promote courses for kids. A Scientologist run podcast has had multiple guests promoting Scientology based learning for youth as opposed to public school. A famous Scientologist child even went online seven months ago to praise the first course they took at only six years old. I remember that not to mention any names but Grant Cardone your parenting sucks yeah and you know this is another crazy thing which I don't think a lot of Scientologists know this.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Like there obviously there are a bunch that do but for the most part these courses and and the Scientology sort sort of everything they're trying to do with kids um that is the I'd say one of the main main suppliers of people to the sea organization. Absolutely are are the parents uh uh that uh of Scientology kids they get brought up in it and the because of all the things that they've learned they know that the most dedicated thing they can do in Scientology is join the sea organization.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

And it also means I don't got to listen to mom and dad anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 27:57

I don't have to be have to deal with any of the drama in the in the in the house I don't have to worry about getting a job.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Don't have to worry about finishing formal education.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

I don't have to worry about finishing school I don't definitely don't have to worry about going to college because as we showed you Elrond Hubbard disapproves of college and also I don't have to worry about what I'm gonna eat and what I'm gonna eat and where I'm gonna sleep and all that stuff it's it's like we'll give you a bed you're gonna it's gonna do the most dedicated thing you can do in Scientology. So your parents are going to be like you're the best yeah you're awesome we we we we and the parents they can't say no.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:40

If they say no then Scientology's like what's up with that your kid wants to do the most uh Scientology thing ever and you don't want them to we better we better look and see what that's all about the red flag you're disaffected that you don't want this for your children. These courses I mean I want we're proof we both did all these little courses when we were kids and we went to the organization and then we both ended up in the C org when we were 15 or 16. Yeah so let me ask you what was the first course you did in Scientology I did the HQS when I was like eight years old which is the Hubbard qualified Scientologist course and I did it at um Los Angeles Day or LA Org the that's the one it's off of Sunset and it just says Dianetics at the the top of the building or or something like that. It's been renovated 47 times since I did my course there. Yeah um when I did my courses I'll the this is I'll give you some old school Scientology stuff here.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

You want to switch off the slides for a second?

SPEAKER_03 29:48

No I don't care we'll leave it up.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Um when I was a kid and I did my courses at Los Angeles uh organization Scientology it's called LA Org when I did my courses there were pools in the basement from the hot the the the pools that were there for the hospital so they would do like physical therapy and stuff like that in these pools. Those pools were still there when I w did this course because they had just per purchased the building a few years before that and they didn't really renovate anything. They just knocked down walls and made big just big course rooms and and the audience I think they got the they got them in the mid to late seventies I think that's what I'm saying. This was I mean I was this is like we're talking like eighty one eighty two it's it was there was there were lines on the they put red and blue and yellow lines on the floors so when you finished one thing on a routing form to to do a course or something the lines on the floor would guide you to the next office that you were supposed to go to. So you was literally like you're the stupidest person in the world follow the yellow brick road to your next building anyway but um but yeah I started yeah I want to say when I was eight eight or nine I think is because I remember being a little little kid and being out on the street on sunset passing out things because you had to sell a book you had to you had to go pass out flyers for like a seminar and stuff like that. You had to audit somebody you had to do all these things and I remember I was just like a little little kid and everybody's like what this and and some they're gonna buy a book from you just as a sympathy play like oh I 100% sold it to like my mom or something like that. You know I don't remember like but it was somebody who's like hey I'll buy a book from you and I was like yeah damn straight Skippy I'm not going back out on the sunset to sell a book I'm like nine. Anyway but yeah that that is they and the same thing in England.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

They have the same yeah no I I did similar versions of these courses the first time when I was five in the cadet org um we had to learn all the eight dynamics all the precepts of the way to happiness um you know uh what else overts and withholds like the first time I was approximately seven the first time I was made to write up overts and withholds the first time.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Oh yeah yeah I think you even have to do it on the HQS course. As part of the course you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

The HQS has everything a dynamic cycle communication it's like it's HQS stands for Hubbard qualified scientologist so the idea is that it's kind of covers all bases and you have a basic orientation of all aspects of Scientology as you will now apply it to your life. I think that's fair to say right 100%.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Yeah it's basically if you do that course you're actually a Scientologist. Right. Because up until that point you don't know you're just like oh man don't be banky what that that's not all there is to it. There's a lot of other stuff but once you do that it's like okay good and also the reason why is because I think because I did that HQS I don't remember there was some sort of deal like if you do this then something else will happen. So because I didn't want to do it. I was like I'm I'm a little kid there's no little kids running around there.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Right. And so Okay another question for you how old were you when you had your first auditing session counseling. Because then was that's what you get audited on the HQS too yeah but that wasn't with so on the on the HQS course you're you don't learn how to use an e-meter.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

You're just doing auditing then probably um when I did uh there's a course uh a word clearing course it's like the ultimate boss final boss of word clearing in Scientology is that you do what's called the method one co-audit course and you ought you do it on somebody and they do it on you and basically what you do is you look up words while you're on the e-meter.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Right. So if you're US US they they'll read off a list of topics you know like math, religion blah blah blah and any any reaction on the e-meter that you get then it's like okay in the subject of math is there a word or symbol you don't fully understand? And then you just look up words about math for the next forever until yeah exactly until you're clear of all misunderstood words on the subject of math.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Aaron Ross Powell you basically look up on this course it I would say lightly you could look up 2000 words in the dictionary on a just a average you could it takes a long time.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Just and also and because you're doing it on the e-meter um you have to get to where you have a floating needle.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

And so if you look up you say okay on in the subject of math is there a word or symbol you don't fully understand? Uh yeah algebra. Okay. So you clear the word algebra. If you now don't have a floating needle when you're done clearing that word was there an earlier is there an earlier similar misunderstood word? Oh my God.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

And so basically you have to keep looking up words um even if it just started with algebra you have to keep looking up words full time until your needle goes which means everything's copacetic.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Allegedly yeah and so yeah it's a lot it's a lot it is so the reason I was asking that is because the first time I had an auditing session I was six and it was my mother who was my auditor which was super awkward um and she was doing with me what's called the it's called CS1 um which is where you literally clear all the basic words of Scientology and so that's where you learn the word engram affinity reality everything like a probably 50 to 100 words and they they even had back at back then they had a like a book dedicated to that with diagrams and everything else that you would go through. But yeah and and even even at age six I remember telling my mom no I don't I don't need auditing and she was like wait what?

SPEAKER_03 36:33

Well also if you you're in Scientology and you say I don't want auditing it's a really bad thing. That's a like that's basically like oh we got a Damien the Omen on that.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

And I quickly and I quickly learned that because she was like well it's gonna make you more happy I'm like I'm fine and then I quickly realized that no was not an option it never it never was.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

I think it's actually on the it's either there's a there's two different charts there's a tone scale chart but there's another one called the chart of human evaluation. Yes and it has the tone levels but then it also has all these characteristics of all the different things and one of the very very low things on the chart is doesn't want auditing is one of the things that's the description. So if somebody who doesn't want auditing in Scientology is really really super low on the chart of human evaluation.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

They're they're heading to the suppressive person category on the fast track.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

You were an early starter there Claire I know right uh yeah no well especially it was my mom like I didn't want her asking me about like oh personal things yes very auditing it uh Scientology counseling which is they call auditing is very very very personally invasive it is you basically at any point if they say what was that like if they're looking at the e-meter it's like a uh it's like a uh a bad thoughts dividing rod and they go who what was that and if you were thinking about something that you didn't want to talk about it was never going to end until you told them that thing.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah and and again as a child being brought up in this environment you believe believed or were indoctrinated I should say to believe that the E-meter is never wrong. It's always right. So if you if there's a read and now you believe that oh the thing I didn't want to say you know it's it's literally it anyway you just get backed into a corner. Okay so let's get back to here.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

Did you read all those different things?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

No. Scientology social media accounts including San Francisco Oh no I read that I just didn't read the red boxes it's a little too small for me.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

Okay great. If you guys can freeze that if you want to read that it's basically the posts of like hey you want to get your kid doing stuff during the day so they don't get up to nonsense? Drop them off at the org and they'll do it all.

Custody Ruling And Child Capture

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yeah. Mr okay and so then this is um a ruling that I know apostate Alex provided in in context to this this is from Mr. Justice Lady in the High Court of Justice Family Division UK RIA child custody case on July 23rd 1984 which by the way was at the very time that I was in the cadet organization discipline is ruthless and obedience has to be unquestioning. The objective of Scientology is to capture the child and its mind. The auditing the processing begins at an early age I agree with Dr. Clark that Scientology training is training for slavery. Again you and I are both examples of this exactly what I'm saying this is just basically you gotta you gotta you gotta sand these kids down so that they just go by the time they can use them they're very polished little cogs that are going to go right into their machine and you're never going to they've written all over their blank slate of naivety and made them into robot Scientology robots. It is corrupt it is sinister it is dangerous because it is out to capture people especially children and impressionable young people and indoctrinate and brainwash them so that they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult withdrawn from ordinary thought living and relationships with others I mean it's exactly if that doesn't nail it I don't know what does I mean that is literally there's no part of that that I disagree with not even one single word.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

And the crazy thing to me about this is is that they do all of this and a lot of these kids even still don't stay in Scientology or they do join the C org and then they're like what the hell I'm out of here and so that's another thing that happens yeah is the kids this is not the kids are not don't have any say in any of this. Yeah so if they're if their North Star ain't Scientology they're eventually going to be like I'm out of here and then because of that then now if they don't do it the way Scientology wants them to do it then they never see the parents ever again they're declared a suppressive person. And that's how I mean when we first got out we heard a story of a young girl who was actually the daughter of somebody at the international headquarters and she got put with a Scientology family or something and this girl ended up robbing a bank when she was 16 years old. Um that's crazy okay yeah and because she had what didn't wasn't the Scientology thing wasn't for her. No and so but she had couldn't go the mom was in the Sea Org and it's a tragedy. The kid I mean it's a kid was basically homeless on the streets and got mixed up with some other wild teens and that's how she ended up robbing a bank. She basically just joined a gang.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah well she ran away from the Scientology family that she'd been put with in the middle of nowhere as a normal child would do. I mean her you know she never had a fighting chance.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

And also those that wasn't her family.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

No it was just some rando Scientologist she met them when she got off the plane when she arrived there. It's nuts. Anyway no I was gonna say something else too but I'll I'll remember it shortly um okay hold on oh I guess we're done with that the next slide is something totally different. Well hold on should we take let's then let's take a minute to put it put us back on normal screen and we can run through some of the questions and comments on this topic before we go on to the next one. That's a great idea Claire I know I'm so full of anybody star any of these things yes okay here we go okay user I think a side point is that this is not just about indoctrinating children it's about keeping the whole family unit under control. Scientology parents need to be careful what they wish for 100% oh and that's what I was going to say is how does this affect us personally? Well first of all yes we were bore I mean I was born and raised in it you got in at six so this this is something we're very very familiar with. But also our our siblings all have kids our nieces and nephews and they are of the age that they are going to be put through these courses and that that gets my my blood boiling.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Well the other thing I was going to say is that my sister my mom all all Scientology When you're in Scientology, they will use the individual family members against each other. So if they have to play, if they have to play a little game with you to get you to do what they want, they'll threaten the kid and say, Hey, you want to you want to see your mom again? Because we'll post you in freaking Zimbabwe and you're never going to see her again. So you better like chop two. And they'll do the same thing with the parent. If the parent is not doing courses and doing what Scientology wants and not causing trouble, then they'll be like, How do you think this is going to work with your daughter or your son that is in the Sea Org? If you get declared a suppressive person, you're never going to speak to them ever again.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Right. And I have said, and I firmly believe there are more people impacted by the practic by Scientology's evil practice of disconnection in this world than there are active Scientologists.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Yeah. Oh, we got user of uh Uba U's 17.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

It's a real sign of desperation when the organization has to tailor make indoctrination for children. I wonder if there is a direct order for all Scientology parents to use and apply this material.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

100%. Absolutely. You are spot on. That's what I'm saying. They're having problems. This is another thing that sort of leads to that. Scientology says they have millions and millions of members, and the facts are they can't even get the children of Scientologists into Scientology because they're on the interwebs. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

They know they are and here's another point that I I think is worth discussing too, because I was looking at this. So our lawsuit was 2009 to 2012. And we know from numerous, hundreds of different sources, that after our lawsuit, which involved um a lot of causes of action, but specifically objected to their practice of forcing termination of pregnancies of Sea Org members. So after 2012, uh things dramatically changed. And a lot of members of the C organization, when they got pregnant, were allowed to just leave.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Well, you know, but they're doing a new thing now.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

You know what they're doing? Yeah, they're forcing them to get uh The men have to take care of it on their end so that they can never have kids. That's what they're doing now. That's what they're doing now. That's a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

I know. I've heard that too. And so because before that they were forcing women to get um planted birth birth control, but that wasn't even enough.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

But then when they couldn't t tell the women what to do, then it was like, hey, listen, we can't have any accidents happening. The guys need to take care of it on their their end. Because and also there were uh tons of C org members that as soon as they figured this out, they were all getting pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Because then it was basically a free ticket out of there, like it's not my fault. You know, accidents happen.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah, so but but so again, going back to this train of thought, so you had a mass exodus of members of the C organization in, let's say, 2012 to 2015.

SPEAKER_03 47:19

Oh, I'm sure it started before that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

I'm just saying that definitely, I mean, we know of numerous examples. Yes. So those those ex-members of the C organization all now have children. And the reason I bring this up is because I've noticed repeatedly on all these Scientology podcasts and websites and everything, that they're the parents are ex-members of the C organization. And they're now like, oh yeah. And you're like, man, it's wild. Yeah, it's wild.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Well, because if they if they especially where we were, if you were at the international headquarters, you saw and did stuff that there's no way you can unknow that.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

It's crazy. This the nonsense that goes on with David Miscavige. But if you're at one of these lower organizations, it's like, hey, if you leave and have a kid, you gotta give us money or you gotta you gotta be this, you gotta be active. You can't, if you go off the reservation, then the rest of your Scientology family aren't gonna be able to speak to you.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

So they we've seen this. We've seen there's a few.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Like in our case, they wanted us to pay$150,000 as one of many steps if we ever, if we ever wanted to speak to our family again. I mean, this is no joke. After we've been making$46 a week for 15 years, if we were lucky,$150,000. Anyway, um, okay, question. You mentioned about kids needing to be controlled to then also control others. Did you ever see this with Shelly, like her attempts to control situations to appease DM David Miscavige? Um, yeah, I mean, Shelly got into Scientology when she was six years old.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

I was just gonna say, David Miscavige and Shelly were Scientology kids. Yes, they were. Both of them were Scientology kids.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

And a lot of people that when we were at the international headquarters, there was tons of people there. Like I would say at least half that were Scientology kids.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

That they grew up in Scientology. There they they never were ever not in Scientology.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Yeah, no, there is writing from L. Ron Hubbard saying that the ideal age for a member of the C organization to become a Commodore's messenger and run for him and work for him directly is six years old. That's the best time to get the child as a clean slate and indoctrinate them to become the perfect Scientology robot.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Yeah. I was just gonna say in to answer this question, um Shelley and there was I think it was Shelley and maybe one or two other people would always make it their business to see what was happening with the kids at the ranch.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

So that this she was basically if you if something was happening at the ranch, which was where all the Scientology kids were of that were children of people that worked at the international headquarters. Yeah. So if you had kids and you went to the international headquarters, if your kid was good enough, then they could also come, but they would be at the the int ranch.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

And when you say good enough, just for clarification's sake, said child had to get through their own security clearance check to be approved to go to that to the kids part. Kids ranch. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 50:44

Anyway, so Shelly was one of those people who kind of was looking out for what was happening with the kids and keeping tabs on that. So I don't know about controlling others. Everybody tries to control everybody there. So that's sort of like that's that's ever that's everybody there has some way trying to control other people that they work for or the work with them.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yeah. Angela, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for exposing all these different topics so interesting for an Ever and I'm learning so much love from the sunny French South Coast. Nice. Thanks for tuning tuning in, Angela. Good. Is that where we went? No. Um I believe that South, the South Coast is like, I think around I I can't remember the cities that it we were in the middle. Dordon.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

Dordone.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

La Roque Jac.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

La Rocajac.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Okay. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Okay. Uh music, Maven. Hi from Rhode Island, where we have the real U.S. Navy, not the fake Davy Navy. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

That wasn't really a question, but I thought it was fun. Okay, let's see if there's any uh dippa doo. Oh, here's a great one.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

Okay. Gabriella. Hey from Romania, a country with exactly 70 Scientologists altogether. Question. Sorry for the off-topic. Were there any Romanians at Gold or Clearwater? Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Romanians.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Um I don't think I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

We did have a lot of um we had a lot of Italians at the uh There were Hungarians for sure. Well, no, I mean there we had people from Denmark, Sweden, German, German, uh Spain, Mexico. We had people from everywhere. Um, but most of those people, um, for the most part, they were in the translations unit. Yes. And there was a few other people that were executives or stuff like that, but they also happened to be Italian. But most of the foreign nationals that were at the international headquarters were in a a unit called the translations unit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Or they were also in audio recording L. Ron Hubbard's lectures as voiceover talent.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Marco. Yes. Marco Grizzetti.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Um Alberto Galli. Um, okay, here's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 53:03

Okay. Amy, when my spouse was eight, he was told, quote, if you ever want to see your mother again, you'll knock it off and obey the rules, unquote. When he said, quote, my mom makes the rules, unquote, he was told, no, she doesn't. Yep. Yeah, that is par for the cost. Of course. It is. I mean so crazy. It is.

Shift To Cause Resurgence Rundown

SPEAKER_03 53:24

It is really. This is design of desperation. It is. They're losing people, and this is a great transition because this next thing was also on Tony Ortega's site. Okay. Um, you want to read this one?

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Okay. So Tony got this tip about the cause resurgence rundown. The cause resurgence rundown is nearing the 12,000 completion milestone. I just finished it for the third time.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

That's key.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yes, it is. We expand across our dynamics every time we've done it. It's an amazing spiritual process directed at you, the being, that you can do in a body. Oh my God, the Scientology is just I gotta tell you some stuff after this. Of course. The Cause Resurgence team are amazing, and my doing this skyrocketed on this rundown. We have so much ability, and when operating from the viewpoint of cause, we are unstoppable. It truly is an OT objective process.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

So breaking it down. Where do we begin?

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Normally, when we talk about all this technical stuff and counseling, I deferred to Claire because she was trained in it and she knew properly, you know, how this worked and all this other good stuff. Okay, but in this case, sh Claire did not, you didn't do this. You've never done the causal surgeon survey.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

No, I was actually going to be in charge of it at the base. But then I so I studied all of the L. Run Hubbard advices that this rundown is based on, but I you're right. I never did it. You did it.

Inside The Running Program Mechanics

SPEAKER_03 55:07

Okay. So this is a rare case where I know all about this. And Claire doesn't. I mean, she knows about it because she studied all the things.

SPEAKER_00 55:17

I don't have first hand knowledge from actually having done it myself.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Yes. So the cause resurgence rundown was a pilot. So it's a Scientology course that they're testing, but they haven't released it generally to Scientologists. So they're they're just having people do it. And when things go bad, they go, Why did that happen? Why did it go bad? And then they keep doing it over and over and over again until they kind of hone in, okay, good, these are the best practices for somebody to do this thing.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Yeah. And also it was not called the Cause or Surgeons Rundown.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah. It was called the Running Program. And at the international headquarters, they had a palm tree and a dirt track around the palm tree. And this was specifically made. It was a custom everything just for this program. This they built a little building, a little outbuilding, and they had some saunas in there. And it was it was a tiny little building. Tiny. You could maybe pit like let's say five or six people in the sauna, and then there was just some couches and there was like a little office there. And that's really what it was. And what you do on the running program, I mean, I'm not trying, I'm not trying to give you guys any spoiler alerts, but you do some running. And when you first start, they they say um walk around the tree. And you have to walk around the tree until you're exhausted. Until you can't possibly go one more time around.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

So you do that.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

And this is phase one.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

This is phase one of the running program. I'm gonna tell you, Scientologists, if you're out there and you don't know what the cause of surgeon's rundown is, I'm gonna tell you because you could do this at home.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

But a key element of feel free. Yeah, exactly. But a key element is that the whole time you're going around the tree.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

I'm getting to that.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Okay, you're jumping ahead. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Okay, first you do the walking.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Jump by my head off.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

First you do the walking until you're exhausted. And you keep doing that until and oh, and when you get exhausted, you're supposed to rest. Now, rest is open to a lot of interpretation. Rest to me means I'm going to take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

And also, if they meant that to every other Sea Org member that I did this running program with, but you take a nap or you just rest, you do just sit down until you basically regain your yourself.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

But also factor in this is after you were walking to the point where you could not walk any longer. I understand.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

And it's and and also I do want to mention we were in the middle of the desert, the California desert. So pretty much the entire time I did it, it was in the high 90s or the mid hundred 100s. Like and in Hemet, San Yacento, Gilman Hot Springs, where the international headquarters is, it got up to 120 degrees there.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Yeah, in the let's talk about this for a minute, too, before you go on to the next levels. So, by my recollection, you could either do this rundown, this running program part-time or full time. So if you were doing it part-time, is that what you were doing of five hours a day?

SPEAKER_03 58:41

I was doing it full-time.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Full time. So you were doing 12 hours.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Oh no, I was doing it, I was doing it five hours a day. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Five hours a day was the minimum.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

Yeah, because for a while it was during the summer, I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yep, I do too.

SPEAKER_03 58:55

For some times, if we didn't have anything to run, it was I think it was when I worked in manufacturing, is when I did it.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yeah, that's what I recall too. And and actually I think that you even shifted to the day schedule to be able to do this program.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

That's exactly what I was just about to say. I I I think I ended up doing it during the day, and the person who was my boss did the night shift, or sh or there was only one shift needed. So it was fine, just do one shift.

SPEAKER_04 59:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Because we weren't running that much. But however it happened, I was I was the tannest little kid on the property there.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

I mean, I was I was probably It was after we were married.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

Yeah, so I was like 19 or 20 when I did it.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

I did it pretty very quickly after we got married, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

Anyway, so um you first you walk okay to exhaustion, keep doing that a bunch of times, and then when you can just keep walking and you don't get exhausted, like you could be walking for three hours. Just walking, walking, walking.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Then they say you're not allowed to listen to music right now.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

Oh no. You have to focus your energy on the pole in the middle of the in the uh of the circle.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:08

Yes. And the premise of that is Well, we're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Holy moly with this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Dang.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

I'm trying to tell Scientologists what that is from somebody who's actually done it for once. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

So then you trot.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

Okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

No, no, there's a there's a level in between there.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

Jog?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

No, it's walk-trot. You do Oh yes, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Walk trot. That's really that, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

He said you're right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Walk trot. That's right. I forgot about walk-trot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

I think I went right to I for walk-trot was like, come on, we're already we were walking, and now we're walk-trotting. I'm good. Okay. So you go walk, walk, trot, trot, and then trot.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:51

And then jog.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Uh I think it's then trot run. Well, we're I don't remember the word jog being used.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

You keep going through it until you're basically build up until You you basically you could spend a few days walking, then you could spend a few days walk-trotting, and then you you you basically have to kind of gear yourself up for it. Because if you just go out there and start running around, you're gonna pull muscles, you're gonna get hurt. So you've got to do this thing on a steady gradient to build up your muscles and build up your body to be able to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:25

And then you get to the point where you're basically running at a full run around the tree.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

And this goes on for days and weeks and forever until you don't get exhausted. So you basically keep running, and then when you get exhausted, you take a break. But you keep doing it and you don't ever stop until you you're never gonna be done with it until you can run and run and run and run and not get exhausted. And I think that when I did, when I graduated, I ran the entire five hours straight. I never stopped for five hours. Yep. And because of that, they were like, okay, you're done. Yeah, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

But also, let's just talk about the origins of this program for a minute, because to me it's fascinating that the reason this program was developed in the first place had nothing to do with OT abilities or superpowers or anything else.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:34

Actually the running program, because it was at the int base, it was something that L. Ron Hubbard wanted the people that worked there to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

And not only just any of the people, a specific category of staff, which was recalcitrant, belligerent, and non-compliant staff. That was the targeted audience originally.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

The whole reason this was invented by L. Ron Hubbard was because he could not get the people that worked at the headquarters to do what he wanted them to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

That was it. That was the whole reason for this being invented.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

And when we were when I was reading the advices and when I saw the things that L. Ron Hubbard wrote about it, it was almost it would be insane to think that this would be a Scientology organization would do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Oh God, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

It was just for these people that it was just like we got a bunch of shitheads here. There was a bunch of things in Scientology that were made for these people, by the way. That there's another thing called the false purpose rundown that was invented for the people that worked for L. Ron Hubbard.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:45

And that's where you find out all the evil purposes you have against L. Ron Hubbard. Okay. So the running program, it was at the AMP base.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:55

And I remember that they did a study years and years later of what happened to everybody that did the running program. And one of the key things was a very, very wildly high percentage of the people that had done the running program escaped from the ant base.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

Well, yeah. I mean, after all that training, you've got a better success.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:22

I was like, you guys think you'll go and catch me? I just ran five hours straight. I ran two marathons just now. What you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

And then I ended up leaving on a motorcycle.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:35

Anyway, but but I remember that that coming up and I thought about it, going, why would that be? And what happens is when you do the when you do this, you basically focus your your energy on the on the the pole or the tree in our case. In Clearwater in Florida, they have this set up at the flag building, and it's just a pole with lights on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:01

It's like a it's just a light beam, really. A light beam pole.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

And Hubbard said that he developed this. This is another one, guys. Okay? I did the one space alien rundown I could do in Scientology. And this might be the reason that Xeno and the Homeboys is such a big hit with me. Is because uh Hubbard said that this was beings would um circle around an object and they would gain energy from the object, from the, you know, this they're basically creating an energy force by the But it's also it's also premised on the concept of confusion and the stable datum.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

So it's trite truism really at its at the base of it. But it's the Hubbard concept of if you have confusion, you just need to focus on one single stable datum. And in this case, it's the center of the track, yeah. And everything else will settle into place.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:59

Okay. So I'll tell you, there was a ton of people that couldn't do it at the end base. They would start and then they're they would find out, oh, you have like horrible feet, or your legs are gonna break if you keep doing this. Or whatever. Um so when I did it, I saw a lot of these people coming and going and being like, oh yeah, they're not gonna do it. They can't, physically can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:26

And so for me, isn't it true that at the time that you did the program, Norman Starkey was doing the program twelve hours a day?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Um I don't remember. I mean, there was a ton of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Also, the also The reason I remember is because the person who was in charge of the running program was this elderly, super nice gentleman by the name of Clive Hill. And I remember because I was in the staff training and the I was in the department that was overseeing that program, even if I wasn't directly involved. But I clearly remember that Clive got in so much trouble because David Miscavige went down to do an inspection of the running track and Norman was asleep.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

Well, okay. So now this is what I was gonna say. It says you're supposed to run or walk or whatever to exhaustion and then take a rest. It basically says take a break or take a rest. Yes. One of the two, or both.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:26

But you need to take a break and rest and then be able to go back out there again. And C org members, even if you were on the running program, you could still be doing an all-nighter or you could still be up late or whatever on your job. Yeah. You did this five hours a day or 12 hours a day, and then you still had to do your Scientology job after that. It wasn't like you get off the hook. You still got to do some work. And so when people would rest, they would go to take a nap.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

Yeah. And so sometimes it's not even taking a nap when you're a member of the C organization. It's literally like a wave of unconsciousness. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

No, you could sit down and fall into the street.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

It's not like you lay down and go, hmm, I wonder if I'm gonna be able to take a nap. It's like boom, like more like states of unconsciousness than actually taking a nap.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

But also in reality. At the time I did it, I clearly knew that I was doing this because I wasn't I wasn't staying in the track of a standard Search member. I was veering off and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

They were trying to cure you of the city.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:31

I was basically like, I'm gonna do what I know how to do, and we're gonna do it like that, and we'll figure out the the the the paperwork later. Anyway. But there were so many people doing the running program at that time that it was just like poof, poof, poof, a new person would show up, and they were all the usual suspects.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

Um but I remember walking in take to take a rest, and there was no place to be because everybody was sprawled out in there, and there's like some chairs and there was a few years.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

What do you expect when it's 110 degrees outside, and you're already talking about people who are barely getting like seven hours sleep on a good day and absolutely malnourished, not not, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

Okay, now this is the best part of this though. So you got all these people sleeping. Well, the dude that's running this place, Clive, Clive Hill, he's gotta be in his 70s or 80s even. He's an old guy. Yeah for for me. I was just a teenager, and he would also be sleeping at his desk.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

So he would be asleep, and everybody else in there would be asleep. And this could go for an hour or two. You could literally you could literally run a little bit after lunch, yeah, go in there and sleep until dinner time.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

Yeah, and and for context, so we're talking about the gold headquarters. So it's a 500-acre compound. Where this was located was uh uh super on the far south end of the property, right? Yeah, the it was on the uh like it was far away from any building.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:09

They it was near the Cine shooting studio and but still a good walk from there. Not I mean not that much, but it was it was very close to that comparative to everything else. But it was the furthest it could possibly be from where management and all those guys would walk.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:26

Yes, and my point being that it was not visited very often. It was kind of like, you know, off the beaten path.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:35

Yeah, it wasn't some and also if you weren't on the running program, you weren't allowed to be down there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

It was like, no, no, no, only the people that are doing this can do it. Because it was a pilot, yeah, it was still kind of confidential and you weren't supposed to talk about it with other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:52

You were just supposed to go down there and do it. So it was kind of like a little secret thing that people were doing. And they would, you know, every day you'd have to write a daily report and be like, eh, I ran a little bit today, my foot's acting up a little again, blah, blah, blah. I need new shoes for the third time because I burned through so many pairs of these. Um and so you would do you would do your thing, and you're right. I don't really when I was doing it, I don't really remember anyone ever coming down there that wasn't on the running program.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

And I wasn't there when when uh Dave showed up or anything like that, because I was if he would have showed up, I probably would have been snoozed out somewhere. I would have got in trouble. I would have remembered that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

I I remember it so distinctly because of the fact that when David Miscavige found Norman Starkey sleeping, I mean, again, by that point, Norman was in his 60s and he's being made to run around a pole twelve hours a day. Um and but the reason so Clive got in a lot of trouble, and that's why I was then studying up on all the advices because I was supposed to take Clive's pay place.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:00

I got it. Yeah, and then he did he ended up staying there for the rest of the time, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:03

Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

Um anyway, that's what the running program is. Yeah, you run around a pole. That's it. There's no and there's very little reading. You read a few things, basically how to do it, yep. And what you're supposed to what's supposed to happen and what what you're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:21

And then um, and then you just run and you just do that. And every day you write your daily report.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:27

And then when you can basically run full blast with uh without ever getting exhausted, then you're done. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

So for anyone listening who's actually done it, I'd be curious to know what it is. What the cost is currently today or recently, and what your experience was like to what we're talking about. But let's go back to the slides, because that's not even the main point of what why we're bringing this up.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:57

So here's the guy, and there's a picture of him, and it says 11,979. Now I'm assuming that this guy or this gal is the one who said this. This is their quote. And even if it's not, they oh no, it's the 12,000th. So it's her. It's her. She says the cause of turn down is nearing the 12,000th.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:20

I just finished it for the third time.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

So it's probably him, and then the 12,000th came in.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Yeah. So we're we're gonna go with the assumption that it's him. Yes. But either way, the point being, this building, uh flag, opened in November 2013. So 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:37

Yeah, but also this is a course that any Scientologist or rundown that any Scientologist can do at any point on the bridge to total freedom that goes from the the very early stages of Scientology all the way up to the OT levels, all the way to the top. There's certain courses you're not allowed to do at certain steps, and and you have to do everything in order.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Yeah, most in fact, most things in Scientology when it comes to counseling and rundowns, yeah, you cannot you're supposed to only do them once. You're not supposed to do them over again unless there was something.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:16

And in and in an exact sequence. Yes. You're supposed to do them you because you learn about this, and then you learn a little bit more about that. And then you learn about another thing, and it kind of goes like this sort of wacky progression of nonsense. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

But this is not like that. This, as this guy notes, yeah, he's finishing it for the third time. Yeah, and this is not 12,000 individuals.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:43

Well, yeah, but that's also because you could do it in any place, it is expected that if you're a dedicated Scientologist, you do this program at least once. Yeah. You should do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Well, go to the next slide, because we even so we so this is from a booklet that was put out in 2013 when they announced the the new flag building, which is in the picture. So, according to this book, the building was designed to incorporate every aspect of the cause resurgence rundown, which had never been publicly available prior to this time. Yep, from all support and administrative space to the central delivery area itself. Okay. So this is pictures of the reception area.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:27

And I just want to say it's a lot of places to rest in there. I'm looking at all I'm I'm eyeballing all those benches.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:33

Can we just pause and reflect back? Remember, we did the episodes talking about severance.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:39

Oh, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:40

This is right out of severance. Uh, cause resurgence rundown. An entire floor of the flag building is devoted to the cause resurgence rundown. It is an OT operating thetan action that is not limited to operating thetans.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:55

Yeah, let's not forget operating thetans are cause over matter, energy, space, and time.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

And of course, for anyone who doesn't know or is new here, OT is the term for people who have done uh uh they've reached the state of clear and have now advanced onto the upper levels of Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:15

This is where you get your Scientology superpowers.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:18

It's also where you get to learn about our buddies inu. Uh okay. Oh no, no, go back.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:24

Um moreover, it can be done many times and at many points on the bridge with enormously greater gains available, the higher ones level of case.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

So basically they want you to do the course, the program, the rundown, the rundown. Yeah, they want you to do it no matter where you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:44

So if you're like brand new into Scientology, you can do it. And then once you get through your grades or your a bunch of training, you can do it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:53

And then once you get into your OT level.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

Just imagine somebody finishes OT3 and it's like, oh, you go to see the registrar as you do after you finish everything. Anything. You go to see the registrar. So, Mark, congratulations, you finished OT3. So let's get you signed up for OT4. You're in the non-interference zone. We've we can't have you stall out, and you say, Oh, I can't afford that right now. Well, guess what? Yeah, you can do the cause resurgence rundown. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:25

And then you're like, Great, I'm gonna have to wear one of those jumpsuits they got going for those guys. They do have special jumpsuits for these guys and apparel and everything. And um, but so back to the point with the Scientology guys is that Scientologists say they have millions and millions of members.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

Okay. If every Scientologist is expected to do this rundown and 12,000 people have done it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:56

Not 12,000 people.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:57

Well, and some of those twelve thousand had done it three or four times.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:01

Yeah. Maybe even more. Who knows?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

But also I was wondering, did they count us too? Because we everybody at the base, because it was only maybe when I did it, there had maybe been 50 people that had done it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:16

When I did it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:17

Good question.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

So it was very, very like they had it, they had an old running program at the base in in the early, early 80s, or in the mid eighties, I guess, or whatever. And they just ran around a pole. It wasn't even a tree, it was just a pole, like a metal fence pole.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

And it was a n it was just dirt, it wasn't a a proper track.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Yeah, no, you're reminding me actually that Mark Fisher told me about doing it. I think he did it in LA, if I'm not mistaken, around a pole.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:48

Yeah, they had it in Los Angeles when there was a place that did these pilots, it was called New World Core.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:54

And they were the ones that um that basically delivered these pilot Scientology courses. And there was a one in Los Angeles. That's where people did real early key to life and life orientation course and the running program and stuff like that. So it just shows you if you're a dedicated Scientologist that's moving up the bridge, which would generally in Scientology, that's what's defined as a Scientologist, then you should have done this. And if twelve if they're up to twelve thousand, that really shows their sizes because there's not that many people who've done this.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:35

And also, if they're at twelve thousand, that's wild. How long's this place been there for? Yeah, it's less than it's ten years at least.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:44

Well, yeah, no, it opened in November 2013.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:47

Okay, so 13 years this place has been opened, then if you're getting that's basically a hundred people a year have done it. A hundred.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:56

A thousand.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:58

What do you mean? Twelve thousand. Oh yeah, a hundred people in a month. Well then they what is that? That's ten that's like a it's not even it's a handful of people a month.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:05

Yeah. And factor in that again, as is even stated in their promotion, a lot of these people are have been expected to do it multiple times.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:14

Yeah, so so the the math is horrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

It is horrible. It's horrible the amount of people Especially considering that this is uh I want to say I saw somewhere, but this the construction of this building was$145 million ballpark. And there's an entire floor of the flag building dedicated to the cause resurgence rundown. So it's just crazy.

Internet, AI, And A Shrinking Church

SPEAKER_03 1:20:39

Anyway, they know they don't have a lot of people. This is another proof of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:44

Yep.

Audience Q&A On Control Tactics

SPEAKER_03 1:20:44

The kids thing is another factor that points to this. Yeah. Scientology is never gonna be able to operate with the internet in place. Yeah. And if and if you want to do something fun, um, I don't know about other AI uh services, but if you go on X and you use Grok or Super Grok or whatever, and you ask it about Scientology, um, it's not getting its info from Scientology. Okay. And this is one thing that I love to joke about and talk about on the on the YouTubes is that all of our videos and everything that we've posted on Scientology is getting scraped by the AI things. So there's not a lot of real substance about Scientology on the internet that's provided by Scientology. Right. And the amount of information that says it's not good and they're do they're up to nonsense and they're trafficking, all kinds of crazy things. All these AI bots know that. So kids coming up, the more and more the young people that are technology savvy are able to find out about Scientology, it's inoculating them, even if they're the children of Scientologists in a lot of cases. Because a lot of times we're talking about stuff that happened 20 years or 30 years or 40 years ago, and some of the parents of these kids were there doing those things. And they were in the guardian's office, or they were in the this or they're into that. So there's a lot of information about Scientology, factual information about Scientology, that Scientology is not contributing to at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

Which is good. We like that. Um, okay, you want to do some questions?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:44

Yes, let's do it. Thanks to everybody who has tuned in with us this fine Sunday. Again, we felt it both of these topics, especially for me personally. Well, it was important to you too on the kids, but power lies to paralyze. Question How do you know when you're done running around the pole? Well, again, that has to do with when you can run.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

Yeah, I I think that's it's basically when you can run and you never get exhausted. Like the like I think even when I did it, I ran f around for a whole day, and then they were like, okay, we'll see what happens tomorrow. And then I came back the next day and ran all day, and then came back the next day and ran all day, and then it was like, what do what are we doing here? Like I did this three days in a row for five hours. Yeah, I'm good. There's no you got you got nothing else for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:35

Yeah. I can I can I've I'm sure the the uh statement is something to the effect that your cause over your body and the physical universe, and you can keep doing this for the rest of time.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:48

Here's a hack for any of you Scientologists out there. If you're doing something and you're getting rid of something on a rundown in Scientology, the cognition at the end is I done got rid of them all. And that's it. It's that for everything. If you have like on this, oh, I was effect and I wasn't cause and did it. So that at the end of this, you go, you know what? I just realized I'm cause over everything on all dynamics. Like, you're done. That's it. It's always that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

It's not here's your side.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:17

Hubbard didn't go too far on uh what he wanted from these people to complete these things.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:24

What's this one?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:25

Okay, love it. Did you catch the ID 12 tribes documentary? So much reminded me of Scientology. Oh, nope, I didn't. I will check that out. Twelve tribes.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:38

Angela, thanks, Catherine Olson. You just saved us all lots of money. Oh, she probably told him something like what do you have to do and do the this and the that's Trevanon might as well also spill the beans on the right cognition for OT eight.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:53

I think we've actually done on our channel, we've covered all the different levels and everything and what you kind of do.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:00

And in a lot of those cases, we've told them you just have to say this and you're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:05

Uh OT eight is I realized that I'm a god and that I created everything, all the BTs, Zenu. I did it all. I created everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:17

I'm aware of it Maybe, maybe while you're gone, Clara and I will do a deep dive on the the bridge to total freedom because it says on there each level, what it is, we can say it, and then Clara can ask me all the questions. And then we could also do that with the chart of human evaluation. That would be pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:34

Well, to show that thing that we just talked about, too. Doesn't want auditing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:38

Right. No, that's what I'm saying. Anyway, uh it's a thought. If you like the thought, let me know. Trevinon, does anyone know the right cognition? Let's make OSA people watching happy.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:47

Oh, yeah. That's the other thing. Yeah. So on the cognition for this one, it is the cause resurgence rundown. It is I'm cause. It's also I'm I'm I now know I'm cause over the body because I can make it do this and nothing happens. I it won't get exhausted. I can control it any way I want. And so it it doesn't have power over me. I have power over it. And um we I I'm positive we did this because we were talking about the the when you're doing um the dianetics, the cognition of dianetics is I created the or I created all these engrams and I've No, you created your own reactive mind. I created my own reactive mind, and now I don't have any reactive mind or engrams.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:38

Right. That's when you reach the state of clear.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:40

Yeah. So when you do these things, whatever you're trying to get rid of, the cognition's loosely is around that area.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:48

And also There's only there's only a few that are not.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:52

Well, I know, but a lot of these are open to interpretation. So if you say something around the words of the actual stated cognition, that Al Ron Hubbard says the person doing this has to say this phrase. When they say this phrase or something around it, that means don't do it anymore. Yeah. And that's another thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:11

And there's only one process in Scientology where the end phenomena was a very specific. Well, I guess the clear cog is also a very specific statement, but the only other one was the clay table processing uh that you do on Key to Life, um, the Key to Life course, which is all about problems, um, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:36

Let's not forget about the clay table, guys.

unknown 1:27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:39

If your religion doesn't have your group doesn't have a clay table, forget it, man. These guys have got clay tables, okay? You can go to the Scientology organization and play with clay, and you're doing it right.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Yeah, I just remember that being super annoying because I did that processing for like a hundred. Hours. Anyway, back to back to questions here. All right. Catherine says, Angela, yes, but you just do it for a certain amount daily, then come back the next day and keep going.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:13

Yeah, you do you do this program, you do it every single day.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:18

For hours and hours a day. I think the minimum you can do it in a day is five hours. It is.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:23

And that's considered a part-time schedule or 12 hours a day.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:27

Yeah, five or twelve, I think. I just I don't know about the 12 part. Oh, because you got meals in there too.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:32

So no, it was definitely I know. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:36

Okay, take it easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:38

Take it easy.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:39

Um, this is a great one.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:42

Okay, Brian, question Do young children file knowledge reports on their parents? Or are there other ways that they are used as inside sources for information on members? Yes, absolutely, young children. 100% and also report on them. And it it's made very clear to you, even as a young child, that if you don't report on your parents or your friends, then you will suffer the same consequences for whatever crime they committed. That's 100% indoctrinated from day one in Scientology, no matter your age.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:17

And there's a lot of times if kids are in the if your kids, your Scientology kids are in the C organization, and they come to visit you for Christmas or some event, and they see anything that's like, what the what? You know, like, oh, my my dad had a a pot brownie on the counter or anything, then they're like, when they get back, they write it up. And then the parents get lit up.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:44

Not cool. Not cool. Snitches get stitches. Okay. Oh, Jacob Hart.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:49

Okay, Jacob, got my ticket for HowdyCon. Looking forward to seeing you, Claire and Mark, if you're there too. I only saw Claire listed as a confirmed speaker. Yay! It'll be awesome to meet you in person. And yes, uh, Jacob is of course referring to HowdyCon. If you haven't heard of that, um, it's on there's a website. Alex, Phil Jones, and Patty have been. I'll put a link in the description. There you go. Clara, your help would be so appreciated. Anyway, um, yeah, I haven't committed Mark to attending yet because of this challenging work schedule, but I'm I will absolutely be there. So uh Angel Cat, how different do you think Scientology numbers would be if they hadn't stopped allowing children?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:33

I think it I don't know. It's uh that's a hard thing to because the kid because they were having so many kids, the kids were pulling the the parents out of science out of the Sea Org or staff or the kids were making it so they were losing the parents. Right. Because the parents would be like, I gotta take care of my kid, and I can't feed him if I work here because you guys are paying me 27 cents a week. And if you were in the C org, there were so many kids of of C org members that the kids were basically out of control. They had they had one or two adults to 70 kids and all ages, and the kids were often Well, the ages were specifically six weeks old up to fourteen or fifteen, at which age they were expected to join the Sea Organize. Yeah, anyway, so I don't I think That's a good question, but I I think it probably would be less because of that. They were basically if you had one kid, you were losing two parents. So it was like we gotta stop this.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:39

But then instead of going to get this the children of Sea Org members, they just moved to get the children of Scientologists. Right. And that was all they were always. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:48

Like between your sister and my two sisters and my brother, that's there's eight children right there.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:56

That, you know, unfortunately are are nieces and nephews. Anyway. Yeah, there you go. All right. Uh apostate Alex in the house, comment 12,000 completions since it was released in 2013. That's an average of 17 people a week.

unknown 1:32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:11

So much 17 completions a week, of which you can do it multiple times. So God only knows how I mean, I wonder what's the most somebody has done that rundown.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:22

And did they can't start the counter at zero. Yeah, exactly. Or did they add all the other people who did it from when it was written? I think it was written in the early 1980s, I want to say. Elrun Hubbard, or late 70s or early 18th. Early 1980s when he wrote all this up.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:38

And from that point to when it was released at Flag, it was a pilot. And by that time, hundreds and hundreds of people could have done it already.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:49

Right. And it if it's like the state of clear, then they started at one and they're not. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:54

That's why I'm like, it's it's kind of those numbers. That's why I'm saying if you did it, if people even did it twice or three or four times, then that figure of actual Scientologists who've done it could be five thousand or even less.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:10

The other the other critical thing that is uh built into this is the cause of surgeons rundown, aka the running program, is a revenue generator that does not involve one-on-one counseling. So therefore, the cost of administration for Scientology is basically you know the cost of one or two Sea Org members. Uh, you know, so what are we talking?$80 a week? That's why I'm interested to know what they're charging for it currently. But anyway, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:41

It's wild. I was looking something up. So how five hours five hours of running typically covers between twenty five and thirty-five miles, depending on your pace. So when I I remember we timed it when I was doing this because we went to the um we went to the a running track or we did something else where we knew where the markers were on how long it was. Yeah. And I think I did a four-minute mile easily.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:12

Like it was like if you're running five hours a day, you're pretty much a good thing. And I think I was on it for God, I think it was on it for maybe two months or so.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:23

I think so. Two or three months. I just remember you making a comment that your um My your your butt was more tanner. Yeah. I remember that moment very clearly.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:38

I was wearing some of those Richard Simmons short shorts with just shoes, no socks, just shoes, and no shirt and and small shorts.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:48

And you do that for three months in the in the desert summer. You had one heck of a I was skin and bones too. There wasn't an ounce of fat. I got it all back. I ate that kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:02

Um here we go. Okay. Question Hold on, let me get back here. Okay. Uh where when you guys were minors, did they make you work far beyond what is legally allowed for their ages? 100%. I how old were you the first time you did an all-nighter? I was sixteen.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:20

Um I was probably sixteen.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:24

But I mean, I was working at sixteen. I was working a hundred and twenty hours a week, basically. At sixteen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:32

You're not even and every Wednesday night we would stay up until like two or four o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:37

Wednesday night was always an all-nighter.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:41

You'd at least stay up to like three or four on a Wednesday, no matter what.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:46

Because you gotta get the statistics up for Thursday at two o'clock the the the two p.m. the the cutoff for anything you were doing during the week is Thursday at two p.m. So if you're uh making widgets and you made five hundred widgets last week, you gotta make five hundred and one widgets no matter what by Thursday at two p.m. And if you're going into Wednesday night with 400 widgets, you got some widgets to be making.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:12

Yeah, I t I took it as an extreme therapeutic marker when I no longer even realized it was Thursday, let alone noticed the passing of 2 p.m.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:23

You know, that was a fun thing when we first escaped, we first escaped, and we were in Kansas City, and we would basically go stir crazy after dinner because you'd work during the day. We were trying to be like, let's do what people do. We're gonna work during the day, and then we're not gonna work at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:41

We're going to try to be normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:43

We would literally be like, This is what we're this is the objective. And after five o'clock, you're like, you're Jones in for something to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:51

You're like, Oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:53

And then you're gonna watch a movie. That was our basic uh our hack was yeah, if you can watch two or three movies a day, it'll burn up that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:01

Yeah. So some so I I talked last week about how I started a Substack, which is where I'll post news about my book and all that. But the funny thing is that from that, I had um a friend reach out who had knew who knew me as a mom, um, only as a mom when we were living in Burbank, California. And um, you know, our sons would have play dates or whatever, you know. Anyway, she was like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea about any of this. And I said, Well, yeah, that was a little bit intentional on our part because, you know, we were just trying to build our lives from absolutely nothing and you know, just try to get on, you know, experience life in the real world as a normal person. And uh, and obviously I had young kids, I wasn't gonna be like, yeah, I was in a cult for 30 years, you know. She was but anyway, it was just interesting. She was like, I'm sorry, I had no idea. I'm like, no, no, that was that was the idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:01

Yeah, it is kind of crazy. And also, if your kids are doing these Scientology courses and they're doing all this other stuff, you basically learn that whatever's good for Scientology is something good for you to do. And if it's bad for Scientology, then you shouldn't do that. So when you learn all this stuff and they say, Okay, you're 15, you're 16, it's time to join the C org, you're by that time, if you've been doing this for any amount, even five, six years since you were 10, you know I better do this, otherwise this is gonna be really bad. It's not gonna work for my family if I don't do this. And so you're very pressured. And the parents, in a lot of cases, also are very pressured to give their kids to the sea or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:53

Oh, absolutely. The parents are not allowed to say no, or if they do, then there's knowledge reports start flying and all this other stuff. It it's just all around a very dangerous environment for children. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:07

Oh, here's an apostate Alex.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:09

Apostate Alex, that's why I wanted to do this course so bad. It was pitched as giving you OT abilities without having to do the OT levels. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:17

That is how they couch it. That's see, that's crazy though, right? You're like, oh, I want to do that. I've heard these guys are just like their postulates are on superpower level 50.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:29

Right. And then you go and you're like, you run around a freaking pole versus the cheap route to, you know, if you can't afford the OT levels, then hey, this is uh an acceptable temporary equivalent that will give you a taste.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:43

Yeah, and if you're a plus size person, good luck. Your feet, your your feet and your ankles and your knees and your hips are gonna get destroyed by doing this.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:54

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:54

And you basically you could have long-lasting injuries from doing if you're not spent.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:02

That's what happened to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:03

Well, I know I'm saying, but if you ain't meant to be running full-time, you're uh to for me, I have horrible back problems.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:10

But also when you had a knee injury and the doctor told you you had the knees of an 80-year-old man.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:18

Yeah. Well, that was just from just bad taking just working on your feet all day, all night.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:24

But I'm sure running five hours a day for three months didn't help.

Final Thoughts And Giveaways

SPEAKER_03 1:40:26

Well, yeah, but I'm just saying it was it was the whole package. Yeah, it was being on your feet and walking around that property for 18 hours a day for 15 years. I didn't always have a motorcycle. No uh Okay, I think we did it, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:43

All right, we made it to the end. Thanks to everybody who joined us this fine Sunday. Sorry, it was a deep, dark topic, but it's something that needed to be talked about.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:52

Yeah, and also we both we both have a lot of information on this one. So between the the kids' courses and the cause of surgeons rundown, um, you're not gonna get the straight scoop about this from anybody that could be closer to all of this in many different ways. So we we thought we should do this one and do a deep dive on these two things because it is kind of like it's it's kind of uh horrible. It's what they're doing, even this cause resurgence.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:28

Um intentionally targeting young people that are vulnerable and should not be anywhere near a dangerous cult.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:38

Yeah. So yes, guys. Well, as I um we don't really mention this awesome, it's in the end uh end video, but there's a lot of people that are watching that aren't subscribed. We used to do a thing, I don't we might do it again, when every time we hit a thousand, another thousand subscribers, we do a giveaway. We haven't been doing giveaways like we used to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:01

True.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:01

So if you want us to do giveaways again, we gotta do it with subscriber counts. So if you want to do a giveaway, and we'll do five giveaways when we get to the next thousand subscribers. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:15

So of your book or of Davy, fake Navy Davy.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:18

We're gonna do fake Navy Davies. Five people get fake Navy Davies. Perfect. My warehouse is filled with these fake Navy Davies. We gotta move. Yeah, we're getting through them. We're getting those.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:29

And by the way, people have s started sending in pictures again. So perfect. Yeah, we would start amassing those and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:36

We'll show those, we'll start doing fake Navy Davies, Captain Chucklesworth, Captain Whack from TGAC, whatever you call him. He's got many names, but it's this little guy right here. Everybody deserves one of these, and these are, I'm telling you, the best pet toy. Cats, dogs, chinchillas, whatever you got going, they love these things. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:59

We've seen hundreds of pictures to document this as a fact.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:02

Sugar gliders, nice. They love it. Everybody get should get don't do the sugar gliders. The sugar gliders will just eat this thing to shreds. Not recommended. No, do as do as you do, not as I say. Um, but the but the cat and dogs, they love them. Sprinkle a little bit of the cat nip on this guy and give it to your cat, and your cat will love you forever. Yes, the cat will cuddle right up next to you after that. It'll love it. Um, okay, guys, if you want to um, you know, put some nonsense in the comments or say bye or hi or hello or whatever, we usually will play that during the end ad. So everybody gets a chance.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:42

Either way, we're super grateful to everyone tuning in today.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:46

Um Alex says may cause harm and distress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:50

May cause alarm and distress.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:51

In the United Kingdom, the Church of Scientology has claimed that Captain Wack from TGAC, fake Navy Davy, Captain Chucklesworth causes alarm and distress because they're it's a it's it's supposedly they may be triggered.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:08

You know what? David Miscavige definitely causes alarm and distress, so perhaps that's why Scientologists are alleging that it causes alarm and distress because it's re-stimulating their interactions with David Miscavige.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:21

To be fair, he doesn't rock such a an awesome little top like this guy does.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:25

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:26

So this guy's m cooler.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:28

Yep.

unknown 1:44:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:31

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:33

Thank you for everybody who participated. Definitely let us know in the comments where you guys are from. If you're on the replay crew, we like it when you guys say where you're watching from too, so we can get an idea and we can double check these YouTube statistics that they're sending us.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:49

Okay, guys, thanks until next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:51

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:55

If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu, Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book, Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology, in hardback, Kindle, and Audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast, and you can get that on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.