Debbie Cook Breaks Ranks and Exposes David Miscavige's Torturous Deeds

One email. Three weeks. A lawsuit. That’s the timeline Debbie Cook triggered when she quietly hit “send” to a list of high-level Scientologists on New Year’s Eve 2011. Debbie wasn’t a random critic. She spent decades inside the Sea Org, ran Scientology’s Flag operation in Clearwater for years, and knew exactly how to write in a way that Scientologists would actually keep reading.

We walk you through her message line by line, translating the Scientology jargon into plain English and pulling out the core claims: nonstop fundraising that isn’t supported by L. Ron Hubbard policy, IAS donation pressure and ballooning reserves, Ideal Org building projects that prioritize optics over auditing and training, and “tech changes” that push OTs into expensive redo programs. Along the way, we talk about why quoting Hubbard matters inside the belief system, how “eligibility” threats keep OT7 members compliant, and why telling people to withdraw donations is one of the fastest ways to provoke retaliation.

Then we contrast the careful tone of the email with what Debbie later describes under oath in her court testimony: allegations of physical intimidation, violence, and the Hole at Scientology’s international base. We also connect the money story to a bigger financial reality former executives describe: massive undelivered services liabilities that incentivize more fundraising, more events, and more pay-to-stay control.

If you care about Scientology exposed reporting, cult recovery, and how high-control groups weaponize money and fear, this one will stick with you. Subscribe, share, and leave a review, then tell us: what part of Debbie’s email would have scared you most to send?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Blown for Good, Scientology Exposed. As usual, I am joined by my lovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Yay. We're back.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

We didn't go there. We were here last week.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

I know, but we're back again.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Yeah. Um Yeah, today's video is going to be a deep dive into an email that was sent by a woman named Debbie Cook, and Debbie Cook will explain all the different things of where she was and all that. But she was basically the head of Scientology in Clearwater for the most part.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

Yeah, she was the public face of Scientology in Clearwater for 17 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Yeah, but she was also the boss. Yes. Like she could walk around and tell people to get some get some getting.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Yeah. And she she got into Scientology when she was 14 years old, joined the Sea Organization when she was 17 years old, and I want to say I she spent twenty-nine years in the sea organization.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

But she was for a short period of time, I want to say it was like in was it 2007? 2007 when she went to Int?

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

In 2007. Because everybody who worked at the Int base, Miscavige deemed unuseful to him. He was bringing people from other Scientology Seawork bases from all over the place, mainly from LA and mainly from Florida.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

And um she was one of those people. And it didn't take very long for her to end up with the the the other bunch of people that were useless to him.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

It never does.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah. Yeah, we've seen it in the 15 years that we were there, we saw this.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

We got pretty jaded by the end.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

It was just like, oh, let's start a timer.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah. Oh, you got some new hotshots here from Florida. Oh, good. I'll give them a week two, Max, before they're cleaning paint buckets for me.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Yeah. But oh, but hold on. Before we get into it, I wanted to take a few minutes.

unknown 2:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

We included a link. So last week we were talking about Scientology's Kangaroo Court arbitration. And uh Leah Remini put out a very extensive post on her Substack this week detailing uh the monstrosity that that is. Um it's well worth the read. I've included the link in the video description. And then one other one other thing.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh, shout out to Claire just taking up, just preloading the whole show here with goodies.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Shelton put out a new book this week or last week for uh April 20th. So Monday, this past Monday. What now? A practical guide to life after a cult. Just started reading it. So anyway, congrats on that to Chris, and I've included the link for that too.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Awesome. Now at the end of this video, we're gonna do a giveaway. I want to say this right up front because if you comment, you're automatically entered in to win the giveaway. And before we do that, like right when we do that, we're also gonna announce who won the replay crew giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Claire's got this. Well, thanks to Dr.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

X.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Dr. X donated a ton of uh Mike and Leah bobbleheads, so you get to pick which one of those you want. And um, yeah, we got a bunch of them to give away. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

Yes, we do. So thank you for the doctors. You guys know me. I always love a giveaway.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

She does she loves a giveaway. She loves it. Um okay, should we get to it?

SPEAKER_04 3:58

Yes, let's get to it.

Who Debbie Cook Was

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Okay, and we make sure we had a little little some little technical nonsense before this. So we did. Let's hope it doesn't happen, but I'm gonna go back to here. There you go. There we go. Happy hoo-ha. Okay, you you read hoo-ha, yeah. I run it.

SPEAKER_04 4:17

Yeah, okay. So, first of all, again, just setting it up.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

So Debbie Cook.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Well, it says in the slides.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Okay. Yeah, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

Golly, just Okay, who is Debbie Cook? Former high-ranking Scientology executive, got into Scientology at 14, joined the C organization at 17. She was confined in the hole for seven weeks in 2007, which was two years after we escaped.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 4:42

She signed a severance agreement to leave staff later that year.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

So when when you escape from the base, they usually want to get you back.

SPEAKER_05 4:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

And if they can't get you back, then they gotta button up any loose ends and make sure that you don't say nothing about nothing.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Yep. And so of course, with no legal representation of your own, and you've been isolated from the outside world for decades. So at that point you're like, whatever. Well, I'm just gonna GTFO.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yes. Yeah. But when you sign those documents, there's nothing in those documents that prevent you from from exposing something that's illegal. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

So that's a little teeny bit of a loophole in this thing, because even if you sign an NDA and pe they're torturing people and kidnapping people and locking them up, uh false imprisonment, then you could talk about that. There's not there's nothing that says you can't talk about that. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Right. But Scientology banks on a Seorc member not being aware of that.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

Yeah. Okay. Um that includes so the agreement that Debbie signed included an agreement to never speak ill of the church.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Um That's another key thing.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

In this email, she's not speaking ill of the church majority. She's speaking ill about David Miscavige specifically.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Which I don't know. That was probably in there too.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

But she was she was trying to spin it like Scientology's awesome, but this guy's ruining it. And these are all the things he's doing to ruin it. That's a that's my recollection of the whole email.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Yeah, and we'll get into the details of it. I will warn you that this email is written as a Scientologist writing to Scientologists. So uh anyway, well, you know, again, we'll get into it. But this is a this to me, that's a huge part of what was so why this had such a huge impact. So she sent this on New Year's Eve, 2011, going into 2012. And by January 27th, 2012, Debbie was sued by Scientology for this email. So that just to me points to the impact uh this had on a year.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

And and also they haven't sued anybody for many, many years.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

And I don't think they may not I think this is the last time they sued somebody.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

And they didn't sue any many people many years before that.

SPEAKER_05 7:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

They threaten legal action nonstop to anybody who talks out talks about them or writes an article or publishes a book or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

But they never do anything.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Right. Like even in the spy files, I think you talked about that they had drafted a lawsuit against us.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah. For me writing posts on the internet.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Just before I get a book or anything.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

But they never filed it.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah. They they but it was all ready to go.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Another thing they do is they use that, that they have a complaint that they're drafting. They use that to then hire private investigators, and it's sort of like a checklist step for Scientology. Okay, good. They said this. Okay, good. Let's draft a complaint letter for a lawsuit. And as soon as they do that, now they hire private investigators and they they do other things, covert and overt operations on their end, to and and justify that by saying, well, we're in the middle of preparing a lawsuit against this person. That's why we're doing that. So they they try to cover their tracks in terms of somebody says, hey, these PIs have been falling, these private investigators have followed me everywhere. And then if you complain to law enforcement, then law enforcement goes to them and they say, Oh, yeah, we're trying to sue this person, we're gathering information. So they know how to play the game.

SPEAKER_04 8:44

Yes. So after her testimony, Scientology wanted to pursue a settlement. Debbie and her husband consulted with other former Scientologists who had been through litigation and were encouraged to settle. Um and then we have this note litigation can also be extremely re-traumatizing for victims of abuse, which we'll be seeing today in Debbie's testimony. Um victims should always be empowered to choose the route that is best for them.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah. So now here's the thing that's kind of ironic about this is that she said as much as she could say that would hurt them in the day of the testimony.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

So it wasn't like she had n uh uh five hundred things to talk about and now she only got to talk about two. She talked about a hundred things. And she didn't have much more that would have been more damning than the hundred things that she kind of brought up and talked about. And um and then the testimony was like when would so in the lawsuit, she had to go on the stand and then get asked questions. And the answers to those questions were horrible. And also not those weren't in the email that she sent.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

So these are all new this is all new information in addition to this comprehensive email that she wrote.

SPEAKER_05 10:06

Exactly. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Okay. Um and we'll show a little bit of that video too. Yeah. As well. We have that testimony.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

We've linked to the testimony and then also um media interviews that she did around that time.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah. She was on a world tour for like for like a hot New York minute. And then and also the I want to say the ex-scientology community was sort of in force and in working to help her. Like there it was the ex-scientologist that hooked her up with the right lawyer, and they and it was a lot of behind the scenes. We were at a party at new on New Year's. Yeah. We were at a party, and and I remembered the town. I couldn't remember it last week. It's Port Arthur.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

Oh, yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Port Arthur, Texas. We were at a party.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

And um the I want to say there was like 20, 25 ex-members there, at least.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

At least. Pro probably more like 30 to 40. There were a bunch of people that we knew, and then a bunch of people that we'd never met before. Yeah. But also we should mention that in the video, in the testimony that we should show, the attorney representing Debbie Cook is Ray Jeffrey, who of course is one of the founding board members of the Michael J. Rinder Aftermath Foundation. Amazing guy.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Yeah. So this was all being orchestrated, I want to say, for a day or two up until New Year's.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Yeah, all more than that. Well, yeah. I think it had been in the works for like Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Well, her writing it and everything. But but the amount of people that were like, okay, how do we get this out? And between all of the people that were at that party, we were able to cobble together the email list of all Scientologists that are at the highest levels, the operating Phaeton levels, which are that's really if you're not a C org member in Scientology, then that's how the hierarchy of members is, is who is highest on the chart and the OT8 and OT7, those are the two top tiers where pretty most of the richy rich and the powerful Scientologists. They're either on OT7 or they're on OT8. And they're the ones that also get special briefings from David Miscavige, and they get a lot of perks, but they also get hounded heavily to get other people doing Scientology or to just donate millions of dollars. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah. And also all of those people knew the name Debbie Cook.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, you couldn't do OT7 or OT eight without going to Florida. And those same people are heavily kind of managed by the higher ups in the Clearwater location and at the international headquarters to kind of massage how they're doing to make sure that they're having their best time there in Florida so they can give us some more dough meat.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Okay. Um there's a little bit less.

unknown 13:11

Right?

Why The Email Hit Hard

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Uh no. Debbie and her husband, do you say that? Yep, I covered that. Oh, yeah, that's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

All right. So this is the beginning of the email.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

We're gonna try to. I mean, you can read the whole thing. We're gonna kind of skip through all these different parts, but um we're gonna try to explain the Scientologies as we go.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Claire will read it and I'll jump in with what that means.

SPEAKER_04 13:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

If if if we need if needed.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

Yeah. Dear friend, I'm emailing you as a friend and fellow Scientologist. As we enter a new year, it is hoped that 2012 can be a year of great dissemination and a year of real progress up the bridge for all Scientologists. Although I'm not in the Sea Org right now, I served in the Sea Org at Flag for 29 years. Seventeen of those years were as Captain Flag Service Organization. I'm a trained auditor and case supervisor, as well as an OEC organization executive course, FEBC Flag Executive Briefing Course, and DSEC, Data Series Evaluators Course.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

These are all like if you've done these, if you're in the C org and you've done any one of these, you're basically like your shit don't stink. You need to know everything there is or note that Hubbard wrote about doing that specific sort of area of Scientology. And the OEC is really for the administration of the organization. The FEBC is like the technical.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

No, it's the executive series. Oh, yeah, flag exact briefing course. Yes, exactly. It's the it's basically so in layman's terms, this means that Debbie was highly trained not only in technical like counseling delivery of Scientology, but also as trained as you can be as trained in L. Ron Hubbard's organizational technology.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah. And she not only did she do one of those things, she did three of those things.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

So that's kind of like You couldn't there there were no other executive training courses beyond that.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah. Yeah. She did everything you could do.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Yep. I am completely dedicated to the technology of Dianetics and Scientology and the works of L. Ron Hubbard. I have seen most of I've seen some of the most stunning and miraculous results in the application of L. Ron Hubbard technology, and I absolutely know it is worth fighting to keep it pure and unadulterated. My husband and I are in good standing, and we are not connected with anyone who is not in good standing. She was not at this New Year's party, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

She wasn't.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

We have steadfastly refused to speak to any media, even though many have contacted us. So again, this introduction is very carefully stated in such a way that a Scientologist receiving this email won't just keep reading. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

They won't put their blinders down. And now I do also want to say something. She says in there that she wasn't in contact with anyone who was not in good standing. And I'm not going to say who she was talking to, but she was talking to somebody that was in good standing at this time. They were talking, that person was talking to everybody else and was their conduit to the to this other ex-scientologist.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

She was applying a little bit of the Scientology acceptable truth policy there.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah. Well, but she was. She was only talking to whoever she was talking to. I almost said it. Um she wasn't she was talking to this person. And then that person was talking to us and every other sort of person who knew stuff and knew where things were and and knew how to to get some stuff done in that universe.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

Anyway, but then and of course, in regards to the media, Scientology sued her barely three weeks later, at which point all bets were off.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Well, yeah, and also as soon as you're getting sued by them, you're probably not in good standing anymore. But uh but officially, I don't know that they ever issued anything because they made a deal with her. So it's kind of like also, depending on who you are and what kind of deal you make with them, they can just say, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this, you can't do that. And then if you want the the settlement and for them to leave you alone and write you a big fat check, then you gotta play along with that. Some people say, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna do whatever I want. I'm gonna talk to whoever I want. I'm not gonna talk smack about you guys anymore in the media or on the internet, but you're not gonna tell me who to talk to and who to not to. And sometimes, depending on who's holding more cards, Scientology would be like, okay, fine. But if you say anything on the internet, you post anything on social media, anything, we're gonna light you back up again.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Okay. And so, yeah, this is very key. If if you were, if I wrote this email to these guys, they would be like, oh, that guy's an SP. Right. Even they even if they just saw the email, they would be like, Nope, I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 18:31

Yeah. Like honestly, to me, reading this is a bit cringe. But well, sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

But but also you gotta dig that in Scientology. In Scientology, there is it's so the brainwashing is so deep that sometimes you have to tell the people, hey, listen, I'm not against Scientology and the technology. Right. But L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige were up to some some heinous nonsense. Yes, and they completely they're not they they're they're wrecking the whole thing and they're doing this and they're doing that. It's a whole it's horrible. Yeah. Even if you just say David Miscavige, let's leave Hubbard out of it. You say just David Miscavige is up to no good. Then they're and they know this because they're they're experiencing it. Right. So it's not a it's not a stretch.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

But then when they when they stop going to the church and they stop giving them money and they start reading stuff on the internet, then they sort of come to realize, oh, this whole thing was a bunch of nonsense. So there's stages of this that that it make it's I don't know how to say it. It it basically gives them a softer landing if they go in stages. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Not everybody watches South Park and just is like, yippee guy, we're out of here, forget you. Not everybody does that. Some of these people are most don't actually. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Well, yeah. Um most of these people have spent at least decades and millions of dollars in Scientology, their whole families and it's a big it's a big step to read an email like this and be like Yeah, the sunk the sunk cost fallacy aspect is very real.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

But yeah, this this email is Scientology language to wake people up.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Totally. And and and somebody posted this. This is a good I don't know where it is now, it's gone. But this would be like if she was a priest and she had read everything that was in the Bible, everything that was uh written, said, anything about anything in the church that she would need to know about that she'd done that in Scientology. There was no more information that she could get from Elvon Hubbard on how Scientology was supposed to work.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

But I do have some very serious concerns about out KSW, which is keep re reference to keeping Scientology working and basically means things are not being run as Hubbard intended them to be.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

It's a policy that Hubbard wrote that's the beginning of every single Scientology course or counseling thing that you need to read documents for. It's at the beginning of every single one of those. And you have to read it every single time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

We did a deep dive video on that too. That policy.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

For new folks.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yes, we have done a video. Can you make a note to put that in the link in the description?

SPEAKER_04 21:22

I sure can.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And then um So, okay. So basically it's the 10 points of keeping Scientology working.

IAS Money And Endless Fundraising

SPEAKER_04 21:30

So about OutKSW that I see permeating the Scientology religion. I have the utmost respect for the thousands of dedicated Scientologists and Seorg members. Together, we have come through everything this world could throw at us and have some real impingement on the world around us. I am proud of our accomplishments and I know you are too. However, there is no question that this new age of continuous fundraising is not our finest moment. Ellery, Says in the policy letter and essay on management, drop no curtains between the organization and the public about anything.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Trevor Burrus Okay, now I gotta say something about this, too. If you're a Scientologist and you're trying to tell another Scientologist that we're not we shouldn't do this or this is not okay or whatever, you quote L. Ron Hubbard policy. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

So it's basically like uh you can't even interpret it because that would be classified as a crime because you're it's verbal tech. Yeah, you can't say You're not allowed to say L. Ron Hubbard says blah, blah, blah. You have to quote it exactly. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

That's exactly right. So it's sort of like in a in a lawsuit when you say, hey, we we're doing this and the reason we're suing this is because this happened, and then they cite the case. In Scientology, you cite the L. Ron Hubbard passage or policy letter that pertains to this.

SPEAKER_04 22:54

Yep, exactly. And if you include a verbal interpretation of your understanding of the policy, the Scientologists will tune out and stop listening.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:05

Based on this policy, I'm communicating to you about some situations that we need to do something about within our religion, within our group. Actions that are either not covered in policy or directly violate LRH policy and tech include the extreme over-regging, which is refers to the registrar who's the person who collects money when you go into a Scientology organization, over-regging and fundraising activities that have become so much a part of nearly every C org organization and class five organization, as well as every OT committee. This fundraising is not covered anywhere in LRH policy. Do we want to cover OT committee?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Well, it's basically you've got the Scientology organization that has employees, they call them staff members, and then you have the C organization, those are the billion-year contract folks. And then you have these public members, these uh uh civilian Scientologists will call them. And they they don't they don't work for Scientology. They don't they're not they don't have a job there most of the time. Sometimes those people are also a staff member or a C org member if they're an OT, high OT.

SPEAKER_04 24:22

A lot of them do have the assigned hat a field staff member, which means that they're responsible to bring new people in.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

But but it's not a contract per se. It's just a responsibility that they have.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah. And then the other thing that they that these specific members have is called an OT the job title they have is OT ambassador. So they are because they're an operating fate in level seven or eight or six or whatever they are, then they are supposed to get other people in Scientology up to the same place they are. And that's that's that's their job. That's their uh unofficial job in Scientology, and the a group of those people in a certain area comprise an OT committee.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

Exactly. Yep. Hardworking Sea Org members and the dedicated staff of orgs around the world aren't choosing to do these actions, nor are the OTs. I'm sure they would be more than happy if they could just get on with direct dissemination of Scientology as they have done for so many years. But the truth is that this is being driven from the very highest echelons within the Scientology structure, and clearly there is a lot of pressure to make targets that are being set. The IAS, the International Association of Scientologists, was created unbeknownst to L. Ron Hubbard in 1984 by Mark Yeager and David Miscavige. This was supposed to be based on Hubbard policies on the subject of membership and the HASI, which is the Hubbard, what is it, uh, Association of Scientologists International, like an earlier membership concept that was written about by Hubbard.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, but in the early days, the when you paid that membership, it went to that organization that you worked at.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Right. Which this that's going to be covered. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Golly G. Wilkers Batman.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

However, the IAS is not the International Association of Scientologists is nothing like the membership system described by Hubbard, which only has two memberships and is covered in the following policy. All right, we're good. Uh current promotion and org program summary, membership rundown, and states, quote, there are two memberships, unquote. Hubbard lists there the international annual membership and gives its cost at 10 pounds sterling or 30 US dollars. He also lists a lifetime membership, which is a which is priced at$75 US.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Scientology charge is it$5,000?

SPEAKER_04 27:03

I think so. At least it was when we were there. It's probably gone up by now. Uh there are no there are no other memberships or statuses approved or known to Hubbard. Furthermore, membership monies are supposed to go directly to the org where the membership is signed up and the money used for dissemination by that organization in that area. This is covered in the policy membership policies. Quote It all goes into the HCO book account, which is reference to just one of the bank accounts that Hubbard authorized.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Which is a lot.

SPEAKER_04 27:39

A lot. God, I feel sorry for whoever has to reconcile those. So it all goes into the HCO book account in the area where the membership is brought and is not part of the organization's weekly gross income. Membership monies go to dissemination. Unquote. Hubbard. All right, we're good.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Currently, membership monies are held at int reserves and have grown to well in excess of a billion dollars. Only a tiny fraction has ever been spent in violation of the policy above. Only the interest earned from the holdings have been used very sparingly to fund projects through grants. In fact, many of the activities you see at IAS events are not actually funded by the IAS, but rather by the Scientologists involved. Think about it. How many ads disseminating Scientology, Dianetics, or any Scientology-affiliated programs have you seen on TV? Heard on the radio, seen in newspapers. I haven't seen one in the four years I have lived in San Antonio, Texas, the seventh largest city in the U.S. How many have you seen? Donating anything more than a lifetime membership to the IES is not based on policy. The article, quote, what your donations buy, unquote, the auditor, the monthly journal the auditor is a magazine. Um the monthly journal of Scientology number 51 from 1970 is clearly talking about how the church uses your donations for Dianetics and Scientology services. Next time you're asked to donate outside of services, realize that you are engaging in fundraising and asked to see something in writing from Hubbard that this is something he expects from you as a Scientologist.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah. So when they have these events, these IAS events, they never talk about this. They never talk about uh this uh membership and all that, but they do talk about all the people who have achieved the next membership level. Because now they have this like this platinum meritorious, which somebody told me is a mil I think it's a million bucks.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

So um they they don't say what that money is gonna go to, it just goes into the IES war chest. But the I the IAS directed by Miscavige is never and maybe even Hubbard, there's policies that Hubbard wrote about what money should be spent and which monies shouldn't. And they s they basically just applied that from that thing to the IAS. Even though he wasn't talking about the IAS, they use that so that they only spend the only money that they spend is the interest earned on the capital. Yes. And each year, as they add more capital to the account, then they get more interest to spend. And over the years, you know, depending on how they have it set up, they have it in gold and stocks and whatever. But then whatever they make on it, that's the amount they're allowed to spend.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. And let's let's just pause for a minute to point out, too. So Debbie's email says their reserves have grown to well in excess of a billion dollars. Okay, but Debbie's knowledge of what was in reserves was from 2007. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

But also it was only in IAS, not everything else.

SPEAKER_05 31:18

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

So if the IAS had a billion, then they had a few billion other in other places. And that and now in 20 I mean, they they've gotta have a time.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

The time that I was um internal executive in Religious Technology Center in 2004, RTC alone, which is uh was 30 staff, had in ec had just hit uh 30 million in reserves just for that one small organization.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Wild. Okay, next. Or did I already flip it?

SPEAKER_04 31:56

No, you need to flip it.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

I need to flip it.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

New org buildings. Hubbard also never directed the purchase of opulent buildings or the posh renovations or furnishings for every organization. In fact, if you read policy letter the ideal org, which is what this program has been called, and nowhere in it.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I was just putting that up. It was it was a good comment by Spanglish.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

Okay, good. And nowhere in it will you find twenty million dollar buildings or even any reference to the poshness of org premises at all as part of Hubbard's description of an quote ideal org. Instead, an ideal org was one that delivered and moved people up the bridge, something that is not part of this ideal org program, right? Which is why we call them idle orgs. Hubbard says in the policy, ideal org, quote, would be clean and attractive enough not to repel its public, unquote. This is all it says about the state of the building.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah. And in in fact, for decades and decades and decades, when Scientology was getting people in and people were signing up for courses and counseling and all that, during those times, most of these places were shitholes. Yep. And some of them had an old building that was kind of nice that they kind of makeshift made work for the Scientology place, or they were in a strip y'all strip mall next to the dog groomer, and they had a little just a little tiny thing there. Um and then as they expanded, they just gobbled up other parts of the strip mall. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Many iterations of these organizations, but none of them uh well not none of them. A majority of them did not own the building they were in. They rented it.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

And they're not renovate it. They they may have put a wall up here or there, but in the most part, these places were pretty down and dirty. Even the big Scientology complex that was in that's in L Los Angeles and has the big Scientology sign up on it. They that was a hospital. That was a Cedar Sinai hospital that Scientology had purchased. It was it was not being used by these by Cedars anymore. They bought that and they did very to little renovations in the 70s and the 80s. They just uh turned what the hospital was in to work for them, and they didn't change anything. I mean, I remember living there in one of the rooms. It was a big giant like operating room or big room, just a wide open room, and they just put fifty bunk beds in it, and there you go, you got it you got a dorm. It wasn't like they and there was a bathroom for the for the all those people that were in that room. There was a bathroom because it was just a like a break room bath bathroom, like you the people would go in there during the day or whatever. It wasn't uh, you know, meant to serve fifty people showering, teeth brushing, hand washing. So they didn't spend money for many, many years. They didn't spend money uh r uh purchasing, renovating, and operating an ideal or a regular Scientology organization. That only came to be in the early 2000s when David Miscavige had this new plan. And the whole reason for that plan was that Tom Cruise was shooting in different places. The if you look at the first few organizations that David Miscavige set up, they were Madrid, where he was, uh he s uh Tom Cruise was, and he was trying to bring people into the Scientology organization.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Specifically at that time, David Beckham.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, and Penelope's um uh family and that sort of thing. And the organization there was nasty.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Then he was in New York shooting World of the Worlds, and he was like, if that was a new an ideal organization, I could bring people into that or he was trying to bring Steven Spielberg into the organization.

SPEAKER_04 35:52

He was like, it's a complete shithole. But back to this point, Hubbard was way more specific about having to have a building with foot traffic nearby. Yes. Because in the concept of bringing new people in, I mean, it's you know, we're talking this emanated from the 60s and 70s, it hasn't moved forward from that as because nothing does. But the concept was you had to have a lot of foot traffic so people from the staff could go out and body route bring people in off the street. Humans into the stri into the organization.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

There's a few organizations, like I think they have a test center in London and a test center in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

I did body routing at the test center in London when I was twelve.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

I did body routing at the Los Angeles org when I was 10.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Um So in Hollywood, in that big blue building that I was talking about, the complex, what they call it, or big blue. Um you would just walk up to Sunset Boulevard, and anybody walking up and down Sunset Boulevard, you'd say, Hey, come on in here. You want to wanna watch a movie?

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Okay.

unknown 37:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Next. Let's keep going. As a result of this off-policy alteration of the ideal org policy, we have the majority of top OTs, now deemed OT ambassadors, heavily engaged in fundraising activities that include bingo, pirate dinners, knitting classes, hay rides, and many other activities strictly revolving around raising funds for the required multi-millions of dollars to fund their ideal org. As part of this, people around every org are now asked to donate to their local ideal org instead of their own services or their own bridge. Hubbard says in the policy org, ethics and tech, quote, get rid of distractions from Scientology in your org, babysitting or raffle tickets and such nonsense, unquote. Yet these distractions are rampant as they are being used as fundraisers to get money for the huge quotas being issued to fund the ideal org. Quote, if the org slumps, don't engage in fundraising or selling postcards or borrowing money. Just make more income with Scientology. It's a sign of very poor management to seek extraordinary solutions for finance outside Scientology. It has always failed. For orgs as for PCs, quote, solve it with Scientology, unquote. Every time I myself have sought to solve financial or personnel in other ways than Scientology, I have lost out. So I can tell you from experience that org solvency lies in more Scientology, not patented combs or fundraising barbecues.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Yeah, so this is a huge thing because Scientology, not only are they fundraising year-round, but they also have these things called the events. And these international events that David Miscavige puts on, a lot of the local staff have to do things to set up for that event. Especially in the location where the live event is being held. So if you are let's give a perfect example of like St. Hill where they're trying to build these tents and all this other stuff, when that or when that event is about to come there, they spend months getting ready for that there in the United Kingdom. And they spend as soon as David Miscavige shows up and they're like setting up the event, whatever job you were doing before is now going to be lessened because you're gonna have to help set this up or do that, or so it takes everybody that's working there off of their job and doing this, and and that's why Al Run Hubbard specifically said not to do these events. He specifically wrote a thing saying, do not do these events, because they were starting to do them when he was still around. And he was like, No, we're not doing this. This is a giant waste of time and money, and but because that is that became they do, I want to say they do at least seven of these fundraising events a year now that are that are set. And they're L. Ron Hubbard's birthday, and then the IAS event, and they're March 13th, and May 9th, and all these different things so that they can raise money and sell things to Scientologists.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Whether they're membership levels or fancy weirdo trophies. Um okay, we good?

Tech Changes That Extract More Money

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Yes. All right. The point is that Scientologists and OTs need to be training, auditing, and disseminating to raw public, people not in Scientology, not regging each other or holding internal fundraisers. Out tech. So out tech is a reference to anything that's a violation of Hubbard writings. Over the last few years, we have seen literally hundreds and hundreds of people who were validated as clear using the clear certainty rundown as developed by Hubbard, now being told they are not clear. This included hundreds of OTs who were then put onto new era dianetics as a handling, quote unquote. Hubbard clearly forbid any Dianetics to be run on OTs in the HCOB, Dianetics Forbidden on OTs. This is out tech. This entire technical quote handling, unquote, was directed personally by chairman of the board, Religious Technology Center, and was done on thousands of OTs. I was one. But it was based not on an uh Hubbard bulletin, but rather based on a single case supervisor instruction where LRH CS'd one pre-OT who had not achieved the state of clear but was mid-OT3 and not making it. Hubbard directed a solo handling that the pre-OT was to do to get himself to achieve the state of clear. Okay, this is way deep complicated.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Basically just a technical thing in Scientology that David Miscavige kind of worked around, mainly because he didn't have anything for these guys to do.

SPEAKER_04 42:26

Yeah, he had no people who had gotten up to OTA. There's there are no OT levels above that. So Miscavige decided that anyone who had said that they were Last Life Clear was that was canceled, and they had to go back and do Dianetics auditing, which is much lower on the bridge, and Hubbard said don't ever do that.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

But it was a way to get more money out of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Yeah, and that's the same reason the running program and superpower.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

Cause resurgence rundown.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Cause resurgence rundown. All these things are things that Miscavige basically dreamed up that these guys could do. Hubbard never said for those guys to do it. No. It was meant for staff Sea Org members, and he was like, hey, we're going to do this. And then well, it's another thing. And also this is crazy because they basically made those items because they knew they're kind of messing with some things here that Hubbard said. So they made it so that you could do all these items no matter where you were on the Scientology chart of progress. So if you were very low on the bridge, you can do causal surgeons rundown or superpower. And if you're very high on the bridge, you can do it. And also he can do it multiple times. He added that you've got doing that.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

There's nothing else in Scientology that you're actually supposed to do multiple times. And I love it. And frankly, I don't even I think that's something that they've added.

unknown 43:58

Um

SPEAKER_04 44:00

I read the writings from Hubbard about the creation of the cause resurgence rundown, and nowhere did it say you could do it multiple times.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah, it was probably another thing where one person did it but they didn't really finish it, and he said, Oh, you got to go back and do this. Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

And then they're like, actually, you know what? Why can't they do it multiple times? Just like um, you know, many the conditions in Scientology. And this is the crazy thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

So she's writing this email, and she may have had some of this other information that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

But she's trying to lay it out in a very Scientological way.

SPEAKER_05 44:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

So that Scientol and also she's writing to the people that they're doing, they're the ones being made to do all these things. So it's not like speaking their language. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

None of this is new news to them. They're like, oh yeah. What you know, they she's speaking to what the thoughts that none of these people had allowed themselves to even think out loud. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

But in in in in defense of Debbie, she also worked at the place where all these people were. So David Miscavige at the International Headquarters or these other muckety mugs, they're in the middle of nowhere in the desert in California. She's on on the ground with these people. Yep. And so she knows what things get brought up when people are like, hey, I came here for a four-day thing, and you guys are trying to keep me here for three months, and you need me to pay you another hundred thousand bucks. Yeah. What the hell's going on? And she's the one who had to handle those people to say, oh no, do this and do that and all these things. And so the fact that these things are happening, she was having to be the go-between to try to sort some of these things out with these people when they did disagree.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

Right, because she's the head of the organization that's pulling in at this time one to two million dollars a week.

SPEAKER_02 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

I'm just gonna skip over the rest of the technical stuff. It's a lot. Okay. So more recently, the fad seems to be that nearly everyone needs to redo their purification rundown and do a long objectives program. Objectives is just the type of counseling that's physical, like walking around, moving, it's a very, very lower level Scientology process. Aaron Ross Powell Including many OTs mid-Solonauts, which is OT7. There's nothing wrong with doing objectives, but is it it is a clear violation of the policy mixing rundowns and repairs to have a person mid-a rundown or OT level be taken off it and placed on an objectives program. But hey, it's a great way to make money. Solo Knots auditors, that's OT7, that's people solo auditing, talking to their body thitans, um, are also being made to get their objectives from a class nine auditor at great expense as they are not being allowed to co-audit. So this is a reference to when you're when you reach when you get to the upper levels, you're it's um it's mandatory that you get auditing only from someone who is a class nine auditor, which is way more expensive.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

And also there are not that many of them.

SPEAKER_04 47:14

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

And if they are, they well, they're only at Flag for the most part.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

That's where most of those guys are.

Missing Executives And One-Man Control

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Oh, the class nine. Yeah, they're at the advanced orgs and flag. And flag. Yeah. Um, flag is the only place where there are class 12s. Flag has made many millions of dollars on the above-listed OutTech handlings because OTs, mid-OT7, are forced to get these out tech actions to be able to get back onto and stay on the level and complete it. Not to mention the spiritual effects of the Outech that this has on each OT. So, again, this email is addressed to all the people that have been, you know, affected by this. I myself was subject to these out-tech handlings, including extensive false purpose rundown mid-OT7. It took its toll in many ways, including physical situations I am still dealing with today. Uh, so false purpose rundown is the interrogations for your evil purposes causing you to, you know, misbehave, shall we say? So I have some reality of the hardship caused. Elron Hubbard command structure. Hubbard left us with a complex and balanced command structure, well, debatable, but whatever, with our orgs led by the Office of Executive Director International. This office was considered so important that Hubbard created a special management group called the Watchdog Committee, whose only purpose was to see that this office and the other needed layers of management existed. Um the Hubbard LRHED 339R speaks that which is a policy, um speaks of this extensively as the protection for our church. But these people are missing, and not just some. As of just a few years ago, there are no members of the Office of the Executive Director International on post, not to mention top executives throughout the international management structure. You may have also wondered, where is Heber? Heber Gench, the president of the church. What about Ray Midoff, Senior Case Supervisor International, the one that Hubbard personally turned over the upper OT levels to? Hate to break it to you, Debbie, he didn't. Um, how about Norman Starkey, Elron Hubbard's trustee? What happened to Guillaume LeServe, Executive Director International, and Mark Yeager, the watchdog committee chairman? What happened to the other international management executives that you have seen at events over the years? The truth is that I spent weeks working in the empty international management building at Int. Empty because everyone had been removed from post. When I first went up lines, meaning to the international headquarters. Scientology is for driving to Hemet, California.

unknown 50:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

Oh my God. These are the twisting my brain a little bit reading this, but that's okay. You know, again, it's translation. Okay. I was briefed extensively by David Miscavige about how bad all of them were and how they had done many things that were all very discreditable. This seemed to quote unquote explain the fact that the entirety of the watchdog committee no longer existed. The entirety of the executive strata, which consisted of Executive Director International and 11 other top international executives that were the top executives in their particular fields no longer existed. That the Commodore's Messenger Org International no longer existed. All of these key command structures of Scientology International put there by Hubbard had been removed.

SPEAKER_01 51:24

Yo, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 51:26

Yep. There were hundreds and hundreds of unanswered letters and requests for help from org staff written based on the um LRH ED339R, where Hubbard says that staff can write to these top executives in the executive strata for help. But this is not possible if all these executives have been removed and no one is there to help them or to get evaluations and programming done to expand Scientology. Well, after that, I got to spend some quality time with Heber, Ray Midoff, Norman Starkey, Guillaume, as well as the entirety of international management at the time, who were all off post and doing very long and harsh ethics programs. These have gone on for years and to the only result that they are still off post. There is no denying that these top executives have all gradually disappeared from the scene. You don't see them sorry, that was me. Oh. You don't see them at the big events anymore or on the ship at Maiden Voyage. David Miscavige has now become the leader of the Scientology religion. Yet what Hubbard left behind was a huge structure to properly manage all aspects of the Scientology religion. He put a complete and brilliant organizational structure there, not one individual. There never was supposed to be a quote unquote leader other than Hubbard himself as the goal maker for our group. Yeah, and this speaks to obviously what we talk about all the time. David Miscavige is the one and only executive in Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

And also this is where she's couching it as I'm not I'm not trying to attack Scientology. I'm trying to tell you Hubbard said this and David Miscavige is doing that.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

And basically, that is a very, in my opinion, that is a very productive way to to wean a Scientologist out of Scientology because then once they experience the real world and they're kind of seeing that things are a little bit more nonsense than they thought they were, then she's speaking to them in their language to wake them up to things that they've all already been thinking. Yes. 100%. There is a situation here, and even if you have not been to the international management base, you should be able to see that over-regging, again, getting money from people, and frequent tech changes, revisionist history, all of this, are not okay. And you have a responsibility to do something to keep Scientology working. You should be able to find and read the references on membership in OEC Volume 6, find and read the policy, the ideal org, find and read the references on org buildings, including the policy letter Cleanliness of Quarters and Staff, Improve Our Image. Also the policy on the org image. If you don't want to make waves or put your put yourself in danger of being taken off the level or denied eligibility, then there are some simple things you can do, which again to me, that sentence is everything.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Well, that's because it speaks to the dangers of you're on this OT level seven could take years and years and years for you to do. And every six months you're supposed to go back to Florida and get a little tune-up, get a little checkup, make sure you haven't been up to any nonsense. You basically get interrogated on if you've been out security, if you've given the materials to anybody, or if you've spoken to anybody, or if you've done anything bad, or you have any bad intentions towards David Miscavige or Scientology. Every six months you have to get do this checkup for and it if you're on there for eight years, then that's two trips a year for eight years. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

And it's not optional. You're required to audit every day and mark the calendar. When you hit that six months, you're not allowed to keep going until you report to Flag for interrogations.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Yeah. So for these people, they're trying to get to the next OT level. So you've got to get done with OT seven so you can do OT eight, so you can do OT9. So they if they go off of the level, if they stop, then that's like the end of the world to them. Because they're being told, they've been told their entire Scientology ex career existence, that the only way you're going to reach and get all these superpowers and become an operating theta and cause over matter, energy, space, and time is you've got to get to these highest levels. So that is is it's dangled as a carrot in front of these high-level Scientologists. If you make any waves or you start causing any problems, that David Miscavige just has to snap his fingers and you're off the OT levels. And that, to some of these people, that would ruin their life. They would utterly be ruined by that because they're brainwashed into thinking that's the ultimate, ultimate goal for them and their family and their business is they get as high as they can.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Trevor Burrus, Jr. Yeah. But also it comes with some very real threats of if they work for a Scientologist, they could lose their job. If their kids or their wife is in Scientology, that can go poof overnight too. Many other things, like real physical threats.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

So Debbie's trying to tell them what how they can do this without getting in trouble.

Her Advice To Stop Donating

SPEAKER_04 56:59

Yes, exactly. First and foremost, withdraw your support from off-policy actions. Stop donating to anything. Which to me, that sentence, that part right there is why they wasted no time filing a lawsuit. Stop donating to anything other than your own services and actual bridge progress. Simply demand to see an a Hubbard policy that says you are required to make other such donations. No one will be able to produce any references because there aren't any. Stop supporting any of the activities that are being done to forward off-policy fundraising in your area. And again, Debbie is telling them what to do in a way that basically they're off the hook.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

Yeah. If they say, Oh, you got to do this, you say, show me the L Ron Hubbard policies that says I have to do that. They don't have one, and you're just like, okay, talk to you later.

SPEAKER_04 57:53

See, I wouldn't want to be Hubbard says what he expects of a Scientologist. That is what he expects you to do. In fact, he put it in HCOB, Keeping Scientology Working Series 33, what we expect of a Scientologist. Read it and follow it. The other thing you can do is to send this email to as many others as you can. That's probably the second sentence that prompted the lawsuit. Even if you do it anonymously, please keep this email among us, the Scientologists. The media have no place in this. Well, they do, but whatever. You may wonder why I have not written a knowledge report and gone about my business. The answer is I have. But there is no longer anyone to send that knowledge report to, right? Because the only executive in Scientology is David Miscavige, and he runs everything. And he's not going to listen to what a shithead he is. Excuse my language. But there is no longer anyone to send that knowledge report to. But you can and should write reports and bring off policy to the attention of local org executives and local Sea Org members. We are a strong and powerful group. And we can effect a change. We have weathered many storms. I'm sorry that I'm the one telling you, but a new storm is upon us. His name is David Miscavige. Its waves are already in the media and the world around us. The truth is that as a Scientologist, you are more able, more perceptive, and have a higher integrity. Scientology is supposed to allow you to think for yourself and never compromise your own integrity. And most certainly, Hubbard held every Scientologist responsible to keep Scientology working. I'm not trying to do anything other than effect a change in serious off-policy actions occurring. My husband and I have most of our family and many, many good friends who are Scientologists. I have not been real interested in sticking my neck out like this. However, I also know that I dedicated my entire adult life to supporting Hubbard and the application of Hubbard technology. And if I ever had to look Hubbard in the eye, well, you don't have to, he ain't coming back. Uh I wouldn't be able to say I did everything I could to keep Scientology working if I didn't do something about it now.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Is that the last one?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

I think there's one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

We all have a stake in this. It is simply not possible to read the LRH references and not see the alterations and violations that are currently occurring. You have a very simple obligation to Hubbard. Don't participate in anything off-policy and let others know they should not either. If every person who reads this email does nothing more than step back from off-policy actions, we would have changed direction. If we took all that energy and directed it into auditing, training, and raw public dissemination, we would be winning. And that is what I wish for you and all of us as we ring in this new year. ARC. Debbie Cook. Yeah, it's like the the alternate signature to ML.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

Much love. Um that was a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

We made it to the end, thank God.

Undelivered Services And Financial Pressure

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

Yeah, I just wanted to say one other thing on this, and that is if Scientology didn't have all that stuff in it, and they were just doing what they were supposed to do, then the only way they'd really get money in is from doing Scientology courses with people and doing Scientology counseling or what they call auditing. That's it. Those are the two things that they make money from. When we left in 2004, 2005, well, by the end of 2004, we left really early in 2005. But by the by that date, Scientology had uh what what they call advanced payments. So people have paid for Scientology auditing and counseling, but they have not yet received it. And that amount of that's a statistic of uh somebody in an international management that says this is supposed to be zero. There should be no ex advanced payments, or they it should always be going down.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

Right. Because this is a liability on their balance sheet.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Yeah. And what David Miscavige figured out is that there was about a for all of Scientology internationally, there was one billion dollars worth of donations for auditing and payments for auditing and counseling that had not yet been been delivered. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Yeah, and many of the some of that was even for people who passed away.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Aaron Powell Well, yeah, but most of it was people that were still around. But yes, some of it was dead, uh people who ha were no longer alive who'd paid these monies and they never ever got their services.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:58

Okay. But besides that, if they were to deliver all of those backlog services that they owed people, it would take a hundred years for them to do that.

unknown 1:03:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

And they'd have no income for a hundred years. So essentially what was happening was they were all they had already depleted the Scientology field of things they could charge them for for them to come into the organization and do. There was no more things that they could ask these people to pay for because they'd already paid for everything. They just hadn't done it yet. Right. And some of those people paid, but then they weren't allowed to do it because they were out ethics or something happened, or for whatever reason, they needed to come up with new ways to get money. And that's how you have these events and the fundraisers, and we're gonna sell you this, and we're gonna sell you fancy bowling trophy and all these different things. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:57

Even though Hubbard said not to do anything.

Court Testimony And The Hole

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Even though Hubbard said not to do that, because they had no other option. Financially, they would be they would go they're already, if you think about it, they're already insolvent to the tune of a billion dollars. Yeah, they have reserves and all that, but they don't want to David Miscavige doesn't want to spend the reserves. So if Scientology were to have to get back on the right track, they'd have to stop doing all the nonsense, all this crazy fundraising, and they'd just have to deliver the services that they were charging people for, and it would take one hundred years for them just to catch up the backlog of donations that they had gotten in to do these items in Scientology. Yep. So I'm just trying to tell you why these things are happening. It's not uh uh uh uh David Miscavige is I don't think he just said, Oh, I want to do something totally different than L. Ron Hubbard wanted to do. He's like, we're gonna go broke if we don't do something. And he thought up some great ways to suck as much money out of those people as possible. Okay. I mean, we'll show it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:05

Um Yeah, we've linked to Debbie's testimony video, but um we said we would play some of this, and I think it's relevant because mostly to show you what Debbie says in her testimony doesn't match what's in her email, not one bit. Like there are so many aspects of the things she witnessed personally, David Miscavige beating people up and on and on and on, that she never mentioned in her email.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

Why?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

Because they would have stopped reading. That's why. So that's where I think the contrast of understanding Debbie's lived experience and what she witnessed is relevant here.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Aaron Ross Powell And I do want to say before we start this, when when Debbie was promoted to the international headquarters from Florida, huge air quotes. Yeah. Promoted. She w ended up in at management. And specifically where the management of Scientology is, that's where the hole is located. And that's this kind of these double wide trailers that David Miscavige just kept all these executives that had been taken off their positions and posts where he just kept them. They lived there, they slept there, they ate there. That's that's where they lived, and they were never allowed to leave there.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:27

Yeah, and she does a great job explaining this, so we'll let her do the talking.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

Okay. Hopefully you can guys can hear this. Here I'll I'll I'll Well no, just people tell us we're gonna play this, and hopefully you can hear it. And if I need to turn it up, I'll turn it up. But let's just see here.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:44

Goodness, Mr. Miscavige physically um punching.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

Can you guys hear that? I don't see any uh I want to make sure they can hear it before we Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:02

Oh yeah, Trev says yes. Thanks, Trevanon.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

I thought so. Okay, good. Here we go. I'm gonna start it again here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

In the face 2005, what was the first thing that you witnessed that personally horrified and frightened you?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:18

That's right, Jeffrey Thompson. I um witness Mr. Miscavige physically um punching in the face and wrestling to the ground another very senior um executive at the science policy international level.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

Did you ever begin to receive uh or were you ever the recipient of money violence?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:46

Yes, I was. One time I was uh called into a conference room and asked some questions, and he ordered his secretary to slap me, and she um slapped me so hard I fell fell over into the chairs. Um one time he uh Mr. Miscavenger ordered his communicator to break my finger if I didn't answer uh his question.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:17

Did you yourself ever receive physical violence from Mr. Miscaven?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:24

Um I there was really only one physical incident where um he was very angry and he um walked around a long, very long conference table to get to me. He was yelling, and um he came up like as if he was going to choke me, but he didn't. He only he basically grabbed my shoulders and and ship me while he was yelling at me.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

Okay, so I don't think we have to show that whole thing. It's it there's a lot of background. Um it's in a it's a court um testimony that was recorded, and there's a lot of people in there, and there's air noise.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

But the audio is not great, but the testimony is Yeah, and we did leave a link to it in the description.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

So if you want to watch the whole testimony, it's in there. It's actually on Amy Scobie's um YouTube channel, is where this is posted.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:21

So Yeah, if you just look on uh search Debbie Cook testimony in you on YouTube, it's in a bunch of places. So yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

Anyway, so it's definitely worth listening to the whole thing because she gives multiple specifics of she basically explains everything that we've been talking about for for the last 20 years that's good that was going on there. Um she talks about that, and she she she I mean, to be fair, she got the whole light, I think.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:59

It was much, much worse many, many years before, I think personally.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

No, it got worse. Okay, well, either way, like Mike talks about it in his book A Billion Years. By then there were bars on the windows, a full-time security guard, like it was a literal prison. And she talks about in this testimony, by the way, that uh they even um miscavage shut off the electricity in the heat of s in the middle of summer, which in Gilman Hot Springs can get up to 1020 degrees. So you're sitting in a trailer that's infested by ants, but but the people that had no ACT.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

The people that were getting the main uh portions of the beatings had escaped. They were not there anymore. The people that were getting the most beat up left. So he had all these other people, and and a lot of these other people, um they would just crumble in a second. That's the problem with you know, like Mike Rinder and Marty. They could take a beating and keep going. And so they got more beatings and they got more violence because they didn't they didn't basically give up or quit after David Miscavige would be torturing them for weeks and years and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:14

Yeah, there's another important part of this testimony because we get asked or people have asked a lot of times, well, why doesn't anyone fight back? Debbie describes an incident with an executive by the name of Mark Jinjinelson, Ginga Nielsen, yeah, where he voiced disagreements with uh physical abuse of executives.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:35

I think he came at the same time Debbie came.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

She did.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:38

They came together to the international property.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:40

Yeah. And so that the handling that was done on him for saying he disagreed with physical abuse is he was locked up and they beat the crap out of him.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Yeah, and he was also licking the tile.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:53

Yeah, she he was made to clean uh bathrooms by licking the floor.

unknown 1:11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah. Horrible stuff, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:01

Like really. Just really just David Miscavige.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

That's I think that's the one thing that he finds great joy in, and figuring out new ways that he can demean and just hu dehumanize these people by making them.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

He's literally like Negan out of Walking Dead. He's a freaking company.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

Claire's watching Walking Dead now. Chip for brains. What is the bats called? Lucille.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:25

Lucille.

unknown 1:12:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

I've never seen it, but I know. I know enough about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Oh my god, it's too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:32

Yeah. Well, if you guys want any further stuff, you can look, like we said, you can look in the just the video description, and there's links to all sorts of the whole testimony.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:43

Oh, here, somebody asked Claire, weren't you in the hole too? Uh yes, I was. I was I was put in the hole in September 2004 until I escaped in January 2005. I was made to sleep, I wasn't allowed to go home, sleeping on the floor of my office.

unknown 1:13:01

Crap like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

I do want to say this. It says, why don't they structure the severance such that they control its distribution for years and years? They do do that with many people. And even in the settlements that they do now, they do do that. So they they basically say, okay, we're gonna make a deal with you, we're gonna give you five million dollars, but we're only gonna give you two hundred thousand dollars a year. And if you break the agreement, then that's it. The faucet gets shut off, and then you don't get the money. So they do do that now. They've they they found out. They did the the the they did the mess it around part, and now they're doing the finding out part.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:40

Yeah, and honestly, that's just where I'm like, thank God we're anyway.

Live Chat And Giveaway Winner

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

Yeah, it's all good. Um okay. I do want to show we didn't do oh yeah, we did. We used to do this thing at the beginning where we tell where everybody's coming from.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:54

I just want to do that real quick before we just running long. We knew this was gonna be a deep dive, but you guys we asked, you guys answered, and we showed up and did it for you. Hopefully it wasn't too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:10

That was that's the part where you get to read.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:13

Okay. Good evening from the Netherlands. Gosh, Dr. Feisty over there. Hello from Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

She's just looking at it like Hello from Tuolemy.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:22

I wasn't looking at it though, I was looking at you. That's the point. Uh howdy Hay from somewhere between Sacramento and San Francisco.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:30

We gotta get a replay camp going here.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

Uh-huh. Uh okay. Hello from a new Neverin fan from Columbia, South Carolina. Nice. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate it. Greetings from Cameron, North Carolina. Hi, Betsy Sue. December Topez, happy Sunday from West Virginia. Mary Kay, hi from Albuquerque. Anita, hello from the Netherlands. We love our Netherlands folks. Jerry, hi from Omaha, Nebraska. Jack Shaw, howdy from Henderson, Nevada. Samantha, hello from Kent in the UK. Oh, nice, my neck of the woods. Chubby Ninja, hello from Denmark. Angel Cat, howdy doll from Sunland, California. Tracy, howdy from Wyoming. Julie, hello from Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:19

Nice. Oh, this person.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:21

Greetings from Target 2. Boom, Elrond Fuddy Duddy. Thank you for the laugh and for the super chat. Yeah, it's very generous of you, Fuddy Duddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

Is that what I call them sometimes? Fuddy duddy.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:35

Yeah, that's a that's a mark. That's like Billy Bob, Fuddy Duddy. There's like a list of mark terms.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

Fuddy duddy. 75 for the billion years.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:45

Linda, is the$75 for a billion years? Oh my goodness, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:51

That's for the Scientologists. The Sea Org members. The Sea Org members aren't doing these memberships.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:57

I didn't even make that connection.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:59

That's there a policy that says when you join the Sea Org, you automatically become a lifetime member.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:04

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:06

I mean it was practice, but I never saw a policy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

Well, yeah, people aren't joining the Sea Org and then paying 5K.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

Didn't even write about IES membership in the first place. So why would you write about giving it free to C org members? It was just like I just remember and actually I don't think it was for all Sea Org members. I know that when I got to the base, that's when I was told, oh, by the way, you you now you work here, you got a free lifetime membership.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:32

Yeah, here's another super chat for Betsy Sue.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:34

The email is absolutely brut this email is absolutely brutal. Go Debbie. Yep, exactly. It it was worth it to break it down as hard as it was to get through some of the language of it. But I think that's it's also, you know, and Scientology's reaction to it as well. Obviously, it hit a sore spot.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:51

Oh yeah, no, this this was uh Yeah, here you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:56

Okay. Oh, Mitch in the house. DM sought donations on top of selling Scientology, not in place of it. I believe that that's Miscavige's donation hack. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:07

Yeah. But they're still not the the the they figured out that their the their level of regging, the the uh soliciting of donations for training and auditing um well outpaced their ability to deliver dianetics and Scientology. I think it's like some crazy amount, like a hundred to one. So like they're raising a hundred dollars in a week and they're delivering a dollar worth of services in a week. If you if you in the uh that's how it was working out. So there was no way to fix this.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:42

Yeah. The the whole the liability hole on the balance sheet was uh growing faster than they could fix it.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

It's also the most concentrated effort in any Scientology organization is gross income. The executive director statistic is gross in income. The all these different people, they're specifically being hounded money, money, money, money, money, money, money. What are you laughing about?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

You'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

Send cools, they only have Virginia slims here. Fuddy duddy.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:17

I'm dying.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:18

I don't know who this is, but it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:21

I'll run Fuddy Duddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

Bullseye.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

Thank you for the comedy. It's it's a hilarious okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

We got a few more people. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

Hello from New Zealand. Nice. Thank you for joining us. Hello from Ireland, the crusty rabbit hole. Hello from New York City, nice. Thanks to everyone tuning in today.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Yeah, there were a few other ones. I can't. I'm uh if I missed you, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:43

Do you want to do the giveaway and then do questions or what?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

Oh my goodness. Yeah, we can do that. We can do the giveaway and then do questions. Oh, why don't you say who won last week?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:53

Oh, yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:54

So get set up for the giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:55

So last week we talked about doing a live giveaway and then a replay crew giveaway. Um, so I posted a comment, um, but our replay crew uh winner from last week is at Christine Miller5515. So send me an email, Claire at Bloomforgood.com, Christine, and let me know if you'd like a like uh mic or Leah Bobblehead. Oh, it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

Awesome. And look, I got it all set up here.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:23

Oh, look at you. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:24

Okay, so there's only 76 entries right now. So why don't we leave this up? We'll answer some questions, and when that hits a hundred, we'll do the giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:34

Perfect. All right, sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

So you guys can see it t ticking up with us here.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:39

So any comment in the live stream chat gets you entered into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Yeah, you just you can just say, hey, where are you coming from, or hey, I like this, or whatever. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:48

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

We're getting them. We're getting them. Nice job. Um, I'm trying to see this thing. Okay. Um let's do some questions. Yes. Oh, I'm in the live, not the start. Yeah, that's why I was all jacked up.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:06

Yeah. Um, the crusty rabbit hole. It's difficult to understand why miscavage is not already locked up. Why humans treat other humans like this is really sad and makes you angry at the same time. Yeah, I know. Exactly. We we've we will talk to any and all law enforcement agencies. We've had many conversations about this, and we provide new information to them on the regular. So we're doing everything we possibly can. It's incredibly frustrating how slow it goes. Japan of Green Gables question. Claire, when you went clear, did it feel like a big revelation or was it anticlimactic? It was 100% anticlimactic.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:48

It is.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:49

It was just uh, you know, the song that comes to mind of Depeche Mode is a pain that I'm used to.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:55

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:58

Uh okay, XJW Vernon question Will there be new episodes on the Aftermath channel? Yes, there will be. I have had to literally just strip down to bare bones. Um, I'm now deep in the throes of the editing process with uh my book doctor that Mike Rinder was so kind as to refer me to before he passed. She's an amazing lady. Um, I'm hoping to be done with all of that in the next few weeks, at which point I'll be able to start um working with Phil on getting stuff content going again on the Aftermath YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:34

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:35

Catherine Olson, CERC members get an automatic lifetime membership, but it doesn't mean anything, and they didn't get any sort of special acknowledgement like the public do. Yes, exactly. Yeah, because there's no treatment. The only perk for a Scientologist for an um a membership is uh uh what is it, a 10 or 15% discount on services? And since members of the C organization aren't required to pay for their services, it means nothing. It's literally like a piece of plastic card that you get that has less meaning than a credit card. Toons question Has Office of Special Affairs ever made any comments on these live streams? Not in the chat, but we've we've heard you know of.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

They could have sock accounts that trust.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:21

But we've heard them and seen them make reference to things that we've talked about. And in fact, they they took a screenshot and like a new screenshot of me that they doctored to make me look nasty on on our hate site. Oh, really? It's from our channel, so we know they're watching. Hi, Elsa.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:40

Well, even when we were in the middle of the lawsuit with them, they had a copy of every single internet post that I had ever made on any message board anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:50

Yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

I think we're gonna have to just pull it on the uh Yeah, let's just do it. Here we go. We're gonna do the draw. Here you go. Ready? Um this is automatic. I this is no way rigged. This is stream yard, just goes through the comments and it tallies everybody up, and that's how it works. Okay, so even if uh Claire or I win. We've won before, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:14

Yeah, we have.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

Yeah. Well, we're in the mix.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:16

So has Catherine, so has Claire.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:18

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:19

Oh, three salt life. Oh, that's your that's our new viewer for today. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:25

Good, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:26

Congratulations. Send me an email, Claire C L A I R E at blownforgood.com with your choice of Aliyah or Mike Bobblehead and your address, and we'll get that shipped off to you. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

Perfect. Okay, let's go back to here we go, and there's another question.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:44

Okay. New year, new name, 2026. Is the changes made for people on solo knots OT7 regarding costs of class nine auditors part of the reason why those on OT seven seem to malice themselves? No, I'm not sure what that means.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:03

I don't know either, but um I just I just uh I don't exactly understand the question, but I do know that when you're doing when you're doing these counseling processes in Scientology and you're having to do it you if you're on OT7, you have to do it every day and you're encouraged to do it multiple times a day. And and this is when you're you're zapping BTs, right? You're getting rid of body thetans.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:34

You're telling them see you, don't want to be you.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:36

Yeah, you're telepathically communicating to tell them to GTFO.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:40

Yeah. So you're basically serving mental eviction notices to millions and millions of aliens that are living in your body. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

So that's what you're doing several times a day.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:51

Don't try to put insert too much logic in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:53

So that's what you're doing for six months. And you can't finish until there's none left to get rid of, basically. They gotta all be evicted for you to get to the end of OT seven so that you can then do OT eight. And then you find out on OT eight that you're the one that created all the body thickens. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Who knew? Yeah. Well de douda. See? Now you don't have to do it no more. I just done told you. Okay. So but every six months during be in between those little eviction sessions, you gotta go and get interrogated by these guys that if you're up to no good or you did you did something nonsense. And it could be anything from some infidelity on their partner that they were involved in to criminal activities that they're involved. It could be anything that they get confessed to. And then Scientology, if they find something, and Scientology says, well now you have to do lower conditions, which are these uh conditions below nonexistence that have penalties and and amends that has to be made. And then one of the things they have is they have this little village set up in Clearwater that has the Way to Happiness Foundation and the Association for Better Living and Education, Abel, and they have all these or uh Citizens Commission on Human Rights and they have all these buildings. You have to go through every single one of those and get regged, get uh pressured to give them money. And as part of your amends, depending on how much you gave all those guys in money, is whether or not you get to get back on the level again. So they have it all set up so that they can maximize the cash suck as much as possible on these people, and they get hit every six months. And so it's a big deal in the Scientology world how this whole thing works. And also when you go to Florida to do this, you're not allowed to stay in a non-scientology hotel. That's why Scientology has so many hotels and rooms and places, because they uh dictate that the members that are coming for these checks, they have to live in one of their properties. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:10

So same is true for the outer orc trainees that go to Flag for training. They also have to pay for lodging in their facilities.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:17

In their facilities. So they're getting and then you and then because you're living in their facilities and you're being at the you're at the Fort Harrison or the Flag land base, any one of those different buildings there, you're eating in there, you're eating there, you're there. They basically have figured out how they can get as much money out of you as physically possible while you're there. And it's not cheap. It's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars a day to be there. And there's horror stories from people all over the place of how they were there. They went there for a week and they ended up staying there for three months. I think even Leah, when she was complaining and saying, Hey, what's Hubbard doing and all that?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:00

When she asked where Shelly was.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:01

Yeah, when she said where's Shelly, she w I think she's Tommy Davis told her you don't have the effing rank to ask that. There's no um there's no filter on who they're gonna try to do that to. They'll do it to their top celebrities, they'll do it to their regular, I'm on OT seven and I want to get to OT eight guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:21

Yeah. Nobody is off limits.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:23

Awesome. Okay. Um here we go. I'm gonna uh Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:30

Multi-chick at Mitch MyMoney answering Mitch. Oh, my money for bringing the Colt down was the Jane Dovey Scientology case that I read on my channel, a silver bullet, in my humble opinion. Then came the harassment by OSA, Office of Special Affairs, but it's still there. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:46

Yeah, they're they it's at the point now where they're they're have bill uh most uh by now maybe even two billion dollars in undelivered services to Scientology.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:59

If the if the whales would stop giving them tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars, they would be it would be done. It would be Dunzer. They wouldn't they wouldn't be able to keep operating unless they started spending all those reserves.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

Which David Miscavige is never that's his piggy bank. That's David Miscavige's piggy bank. So there's no way they spend they dip into that if they can.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

Um anything else?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:26

I think we've got to I think we made it to the end. Thank you for hanging in there with us on this deep dive today, folks. Um if we missed any questions, we we we might end up doing a QA one of these weeks coming up here. So you can comment on this video, add any other questions you'd like us to cover that we didn't get to. Sorry if we missed your question, but we made it to the end.

E-Meter Prices And Merch Outro

SPEAKER_01 1:29:50

We did, we did. And and don't think we forgot the Mark uh seven and the Mark VIII e-meter videos. Yes. They're coming. We got some we got a hot lead.

unknown 1:30:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

We got a hot lead on a brand new Mark VIII Ultra E-meter. And we're trying to work that out so that we can obtain it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:13

And then we have we have ordered some deep dark undercover approaches there. And thanks to eBay, we have an incoming easy bake.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:25

Yeah, easy.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:26

And we have where'd the other one go?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:28

It's right here.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:28

Oh, yeah. And we have the we got this one already.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:32

This one. So this is the version before the Mark VIII Ultra. This is the Mark Super 7 Quantum. There's no quantum computing happening in this. I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:46

Don't judge a book by its title or its cover.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:50

Yeah, you your I want to say your this is a five thousand the Scientology sells this for five thousand dollars. I would say that anyone's iPhone in their pocket is thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of time times more powerful than the electronics or that do something than this. This is a I I love this.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:15

Lupita says, dumpster diving.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:19

We have it, we're not dumpster diving. People aren't throwing away$5,000 emails. That's the other thing is like these e-meters, if you paid, you know, these used to be, they didn't always used to be$5,000. You used to be able to buy one of these for like$2,2500 in like the 90s or the or the 2000s. Then they upgraded them to the quantum, and then they got a little bit more expensive. But this new e-meter, they're charging$5,000 for it. So to get somebody who has one to send it to you, yeah, it's like eh.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:51

That's a that's another hack you just reminded me of, too, when you train to become uh in Scientology Council. Not only do you have to have one of those turdballs, you have to have two. You have to have a spare. So any to uh just as a basic requirement to do that training, you have to have two.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:11

Yeah, and if you're sly though, you'll borrow one.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:16

And that but they don't they they frown upon that.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:19

But as long as you say I have two meters, and just don't say where you got them, just say I have two, you're fine. But if you don't say you have them, they're gonna make you buy them.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

Oh my god, there's so many ways these guys try to cycle.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:34

Oh my goodness, I know. It's depressing.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:36

And I will say this again this when we were making these e-meters at Golden Air Productions in the 90s and the 2000s, these can comprised of$400 worth of parts. And that was because we were ordering a lot of those parts in very low quantities. We were rushing things, we were it could have been maybe$200 if we were doing it efficiently and we were buying in bulk of the different components that go into this thing. And when they upgraded to the new Barque e-meter, that has$40 worth of parts costs.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:23

It's another way no matter what you're you're looking into Scientology about, it always leads to do Remy. That's uh you just follow the money. Just like anything that's crazy and corrupt, just follow the money. Any organization that you think is up to no good, if there's money nonsense going on, that's likely at the root of whatever's going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:47

Yeah. Amy says, also remember they have limited edition e-meters with fancy colors here. Special edition, R. We're gonna cover that on the video. Obsidian, the this, the that, the oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:58

They had for the longest time, they had a gold, silver, and bronze e-meters.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:03

I want to say the gold was like 25,000, and the silver was like maybe 20, and the bronze was like 15 or something like that. And then we would take this is so crazy, too. We would take these parts that were made for this e-meter. It the this has like kind of like a a uh I don't know what you would call it, it has a finish to it that's not smooth. It's a little orange peely. Okay, it's it's got some texture to it. We would take all these plastic parts and we would sand them. We would wet sand them. So even these knobs and everything, they would spend tens of hours wet sanding these things, and then we would send them to a plater and they would gold plate them. And so you take$400 worth of parts, uh, several hundred hours of Sea org labor, and then you turn this into a$25,000 e-meter.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:58

And personally, I never saw the practicality of having a gold-plated e-meter. I mean, you're putting your fingers all over that thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:04

They were never meant to be used. They were meant to put up on your shelf in your office and display and like this lumpalard over here. Hey, look at me. I got a gold e-meter. That's how a baller I am. When you bring another Scientologist over to your house, you say, look what I got. And some people would would buy the whole set. They'd have a bronze, silver, and gold e-meter. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:25

Somebody said talk about putting lipstick on a pig. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:28

Oh, yeah, no. It was Oh, and that and what would happen is the people that did buy them and use them, they would get all tarnished. Yes. And they'd get green and ugly and all that. And then we they'd send them in and we'd have to buff them up and polish them and make them all brand new again. And sometimes we had to send parts out to get replated and replace them if they were worn or Oh my God, so much nonsense.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:54

Yeah. So that'll be a deep dive coming up. But anyway, thank you again to everyone who tuned in with us this fine Sunday. Um We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:03

We appreciate all the super chats. We appreciate the comments.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:06

And just a reminder comment for the replay crew on the on this video after it's done if you'd like to be um added into the additional giveaway, the end of the replay crew giveaway.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:19

Holy mamma. And we we'll and we'll do the same system. We'll announce the winner of the replay giveaway before we do the new giveaway next week and so on. And however long this goes, I don't know how many bobbleheads are in the queue, but I think next week we'll zero those out. And then if you wanna if you already have one or whatever, if you want to donate to the channel, we can do more giveaways. But at the end of the day, we we a lot of these um things that the Blown for Good makes, we actually um raise money for the Aftermath Foundation for these things. So like the anything on the Aftermath website.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:00

And on the spshop.com and those proceeds go to the foundation.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:04

Yeah, all those proceeds go directly to the foundation. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:09

Awesome. I think that's it. Last week the uh there was some uh f some something going on, some monkeying around that happened, and the outro didn't play.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:20

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:21

So hopefully it plays today.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:22

Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:24

Until next time, guys. Bye. Bye. Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu. Xenu is my homeboy and BFG branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book, Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, Kindle, and Audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast, and you can get that on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.