Scientology: What Are They Hiding? | Live Q&A - Secrets of Scientology #17

Scientology doesn’t just punish you while you’re inside, it tries to keep punishing you after you leave. We sit down for a wide-ranging Q&A that gets into the real mechanics behind harassment campaigns, smear websites, and why the legal system can feel stacked when an organization is willing to spend forever in court. We also share what it’s like to build a normal family life after disconnection, and why boundaries matter when relatives are still following policies that label former members as dangerous.

From there, we dig into the questions people keep asking out loud: Is David Miscavige still hitting people? Why did the Tom Cruise turtleneck video spark such backlash once it leaked? Does Scientology “keep the money,” or is the bigger story who controls it and who gets insulated from normal life? Along the way we explain how “church” status and IRS recognition can hide a high-control system in plain sight, and why the most revealing test is what happens when you try to leave.

We also talk about human trafficking and forced labor concerns in clear, concrete terms: held passports, religious visas used for non-minister work, recruitment promises that never become real, sleep deprivation, makework, and the lack of routine medical care. We connect those conditions to long-term health risks, and we keep the focus on what listeners can do, including how people still inside the Sea Org can get help the moment they decide to walk out.

If you found this conversation useful, subscribe for more weekly answers, share it with someone who’s curious about Scientology, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome, Q And A, Giveaway Rules

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hey guys, welcome back to the channel. Welcome to Blown for Good. Exposing scientists Scientology Exposed or Scientology Exposed. Scientology Exposed. For some reason I can never remember which way it is. Also, you're hearing my lovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_05 0:42

Hey, hey, everybody. Good to see you.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Um we've had a busy week this last week.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

Yes. We took a break last week.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, you did a video with uh Chris Shelton.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah. Um awesome. We are going to be here this week, though. We're here.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

We're here. Yes. Proof of life.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

We get a lot of um people writing in to the channel and writing in to like the website saying that we they want to do us to do more QA's. We for some reason we always get asked, can you can you do more QA's? Can you answer more questions? That's always the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:21

And we always get great questions too. So every once in a while, I'm like, hey, it's it's that time of the month. It's that time of the month. That time of the quarter.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

That means something totally different.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

Okay, well, not in this context. It's all about context.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Oh my goodness. See what I got to deal with, guys?

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Um, okay, so today we have a bunch of questions that came into the website or questions that people posted on videos, and we're gonna answer those. Um, if you do comment on the video, you will automatically be entered in to win um a prize. Do is it a specific prize?

SPEAKER_05 2:04

It's a Davy doll.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

It's a Davy, you will win one of our uh precious little fake navy Davy dolls. Um anyway, so um yeah. So if you c please comment. Also, at least 60% of the people that watch our videos are not subscribed.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Forty percent of our views are from subscribers, and the other 60% are from not subscribers. It's free. It doesn't cost you anything. They call it a subscription, but it's a free subscription. And you don't have to pay later. You don't, it's just free, it's free. It does help the channel out.

SPEAKER_05 2:39

There's no free trial period, none of that nonsense that we all have to worry about in our first world problem lives.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yes. Um okay, good. You want you ready to do it? Yes. Try something new here. We're gonna see if this works here. Poof, poof. Oof.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

All right. Want to submit a question? You can join our live chats, comment on a video, or contact us via bloneforgood.com, as many of you do. And we really appreciate the messages we get. Uh very often people share um how our content has helped them, helped open their eyes. Um, and so that's always really encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

Okay, good. You ready? Here goes the first one.

Harassment Tactics And Staying Safe

SPEAKER_05 3:22

Okay. Jester CA420. Do you think they'll ever give up harassing your family?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Well, they're not really harassing hate sights on us. But not our family, they're not harassing. They're only harassing us. Our families don't even talk to us.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

Um, we have we have reconnected with our family outside of that bubble that we never knew never really knew growing up. Yeah. Um, and so I love that for our kids that they have they have close un unconditional love, you know. And and of course we have our family of choice.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah. They've got tons of cousins.

SPEAKER_05 4:03

Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Cousins galore.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Um I don't know. I don't really I mean they've had this website on this, whether we are doing stuff or we're not doing stuff, they still have the websites up.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

Yeah. I I'm not expecting that while we're still prominently on their radar. For example, you know, my expert witness testimony in the Danny Masterson trial has me squarely in their bullseye still, as of last week.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, but the fact that we're helping people escape from the sea. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_05 4:39

It's funny that that's not their focus. I mean, the foundation constantly gets harassed by Scientology, but we have learned very valuable lessons over since you know inception in December 2017. We've learned how to weather those storms um and come out prevailing.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah. I mean, um didn't uh a new billboard go up this week too?

SPEAKER_05 5:05

Yes, yes. So yeah. Sometime soon, Phil and I will do an update on the foundation channel about the battle of the billboards that has been waging on um in the background. Um, but yes, we just got a new Mike Render billboard up that includes his quote, the different how to tell the difference between a religion and a cult is what happened when what happens when you try to leave. Yeah. And that is right at the entrance, the freeway entrance to the one-on-one free freeway. Where which Catherine pointed out is like that's the buses all go that way. And if they redirected the route, which is a possibility, but that would be a complete pain. So there's also and I'm sure you would agree with this, but even in the mentality of a uh when you're in the Sea Org, when things like that happen, you still wonder like, what is this about?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yeah, why are we going this way?

SPEAKER_05 6:02

What's happening? It's like curiosity killed the cat. Maybe I'll just go to that Starbucks right there. Uh sneak over to Starbucks and see what's happening at the 101 freeway entrance. And we and we still get calls on the crisis line on a weekly basis. So we know the message is getting out there. So anyway, so you know, I'm I don't think they'll ever give up.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 6:25

I don't think so either. I think that um, you know, I I it's they're not for for us, we've just become accustomed to the fact that it's something that we need to factor into our lives. Sure. And be safe. And we've had to talk with our kids about that even. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Um The thing that I was most worried about was my business context.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

And so far, knock on wood.

SPEAKER_04 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Um it hasn't it's it's absolutely affected it, but I can't v genuinely say it's affected it in a bad way.

SPEAKER_05 7:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Because it seems we have had we have had people, we have had things happen that was as a result of somebody only reading what the Scientology site had and not seeing what we had to say, thought, oh, what the hell. And then as soon as one of the people at the company that wasn't that person cleared it up with that company, and then everything was fine.

SPEAKER_05 7:27

Yeah. So I will say we don't know. There's some things that would be hard for to document.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Well, because we don't know what business we haven't gotten from people they sent letters to or whatever. But at the same time, for most of my clients, I there's it's not a really a repeat business type of thing.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

And it's not like they don't haven't figured out our background through the course of relationships. Not not that you or just when we're there working. It's not about that. But like it very often comes up through, you know, as a relationship develops, and it's always like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah. Most of the time after I've literally been working with the client or uh being on site, going through walkthroughs of the site before we c come there to do all our work. Um, they'll pull me aside and they'll be like, hey, by the way, I read your book.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And I'll just be like, oh, great.

SPEAKER_05 8:25

Yeah, my favorite was at a recent grand opening, one of the main people pulled, like, grabbed me as I was heading out the door. She's like, big fan of your podcast.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

I was like, oh, well, thanks.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah. So and you know who you are. If we're talking about you, you know who you are.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Um, but yeah, I would say as long as they've got something to hide, they're gonna keep it.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

And as long as we're still talking about it, they're we're gonna always have that bullseye. I know this past week there was the hearing in Leah Remini's case. So again, my name came up because I submitted a declaration, as did Mike Grinder, um, documenting religious technology centers ties to the campaign against Leah. So it will be interesting to see what the outcome of that is. The part that really I watched the the the hearing online. Yeah, and one of the judges was like, Well, isn't it, you know, what about I mean, Leah Remini put out a whole show attacking Scientology. And what was annoying to me is it missed the point that the show wasn't attacking Scientology, it was exposing the abuses that this organization gets away with. And Leah is a whistleblower. And to me, there's a very big difference.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

And she's she's filed this case. You and I both know how hard they've come after us and our businesses and everything else. And it is so frustrating that the legal system just is not set up to easily get justice for when you're talking about million, multi-million dollar law firms that they've hired to protect them. That's what's annoying to me. It's frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Yep. And the other thing is that a lot of people ask us why don't we, there with all the nonsense they do on the internet, why don't we sue them? And that is exactly what Scientology wants us to do. They want to do, they want to push it so far that we do try to sue them, and then they can drag that out for the rest of eternity and just spend as much money as possible on their end so that we have to spend money on our end. So it's sort of like uh we've been down that road. We have.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

And we've learned that that is the arena where they have hands down the advantage.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

Whereas here, we can just talk about our experiences, we can tell what we lived through, we can talk about what they're still doing to this day, and there's nothing that they can do about it, really, at the end of the day, other than to keep harassing us and attacking us. But that's something that in 21 years, um they are losing momentum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Absolutely. And you know the other thing I actually just realized is I actually tell people about the website that they have on me. Me too. Because then when people go there, they're just like, Yeah. Like they put all that together, they put that whole site together, just to trash talk you, and I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:33

Yes, I always tell people those what they've done that with the the website says more about them than it ever has about us. And as you've said many times, we you we both know that we are the intended audience. It's intended to get under our skin that they have my mother, your mother, my brother, you know, family, whatever. And that's why we just don't watch it.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah. Okay. I think we've thoroughly and fully answered that question.

SPEAKER_05 12:03

Hopefully we covered it. Oh, look, it's Phil Doggo. Uh Claire, does it sometimes seem a bit unreal when you see your own kids

Parenting After Scientology Disconnection

SPEAKER_05 12:10

have a normal upbringing, never having experience at yourself? 100%. Absolutely. Um, I mean, we have stories for days on that.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

But that's yeah, it's not even a question. Um I mean, yeah, it's not a qu not even a question.

SPEAKER_05 12:27

But I will say that absolutely the the flip of the switch for me was when we had kids. Yeah. Up until that point, I was it's not that I was still in the mindset, it's just that I understood the mindset. So, you know, like I can remember even trying to explain to my to one of a family member who was never in Scientology that I understood why my mother wouldn't talk to me. But just because I understand it doesn't mean it's not an evil and senseless horror of Scientology. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah. Good question, Phil. They definitely uh they definitely know too.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

Our kids? Yeah. Oh yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Yeah. Whenever there's something they complain about. When I was a kid, we had three channels on the TV.

SPEAKER_05 13:22

I wasn't even allowed to watch TV.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Okay, next question.

SPEAKER_05 13:26

Okay. Catherine Brody. Scientology appears to be child abuse. I would never allow my child to be removed from my care. Now that you are a mother, do you see what your parents did to you differently? Do you really want to have contact? I'm not sure I would. That's a really good question because, yes, and we've talked about this many times too. We're like, yeah, it sucks that, you know, the practice of disconnection sucks. On the other hand, do we want our children exposed to that nonsense?

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, even if they allowed us to talk to those guys and they they're gonna try to convert the kids or you know, whisper, you know, be yeah, in their ear that we're suppressive people, all of that.

SPEAKER_05 14:10

I I hope and pray for all of our family in still in Scientology that someday they'll get out. But until that happens, and even if they did get out, there would still be a period of regaining trust.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Totally.

SPEAKER_05 14:26

Yeah. So, but yes, um, you know, nobody goes in, nobody gets involved in Scientology with eyes wide open. That's why we talk about what we talk about here. They are Scientology is very good at manipulating and tricking people into getting them in the door. So we know what we know, and that's where we feel it's the right thing to do to keep talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah. Okay, next one.

David Miscavige And Physical Abuse

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Do you know if David Miscavige is still hitting people? Yeah, I saw this question. So I was thinking about this. The f what what was the first time you first saw him hit somebody in what, 1990?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, when I was first at the base.

SPEAKER_05 15:07

Right. I witnessed him abusing, physically abusing staff from 1996 until 2005.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

So I think the only way that he could stop is if he wasn't where they were.

SPEAKER_05 15:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Like he would have to be on an island somewhere with no seal on the page. In a cage.

SPEAKER_05 15:27

He'd have to be in a prison. Well, no, he just stop him. Well, no.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, no. Well Well, anyway, but I don't think he I it's it's sort of like it's part of him. That's what it seems like to me.

SPEAKER_05 15:39

He he is incapable of restraining himself. And he's also incapable of acknowledging that he that that was wrong to do. Like he is in a mental trap that makes him incapable of changing ever. He is like you have to to change a pattern of behavior, you have to be able to go self-reflection, that was wrong. I shouldn't have done that. But no, he has used Scientology policy and the writings of L. Ron Hubbard and his own megalomaniac personality to convince himself that he is thoroughly justified in his actions. So therefore, why if he stopped, if he were to stop, why?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Well, yeah, I mean, uh you gotta know that there are people, lawyers, um, you know, people that are doing stuff in and around him to to fix what he's done, like to patch it patch these things up. And you think that it would just be like, you're gonna this is gonna catch up. You gotta stop.

unknown 16:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

No? Doesn't seem like it.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

He doesn't like he doesn't like listening to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

When when we we left in uh in 2005, we're talking like twenty-one years ago now.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

When we left. We've had people leave after us a few years here, a few years here, a few just adding and and everybody that we talk to says, Good thing you got out when you did. It got way worse.

SPEAKER_05 17:18

And you're just like Which feels impossible, honestly. Like, I mean, I know it's not impossible, but like even back then, we were like, My God, we always it was this weird mental loop of like, well, it's gonna get better, it's gonna get better. And it never did, it always got worse.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Oh gosh, okay. So the answer to that one is a definitive yes, we would assume that is what he is doing.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

Yeah, he you can't teach an old dog new tricks. What is all of this missed cabbage stuff, Miss Gavage?

The Tom Cruise Turtleneck Leak

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Miss Gavage.

SPEAKER_05 17:58

All right, why did Miss Gabbage try to stop the turtleneck video from going viral if he thought it was so awesome? Or did he know it wasn't? That's a good question. So for anyone who doesn't know the context of this, this is a video that uh was leaked onto the internet.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Actually, that was tied to the whole anonymous um the when they took it all when they tried there's a this story has been told so many times, but yeah. The video that was made of Tom Cruise in the Black Turtleneck was made to show to Scientologists at a Scientology-only event. Trevor Burrus, Jr. That's what that's what the video's intended purpose and public was. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

Yes. And it was released in October 2004.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah. And it has Tom Cruise basically full-time speaking Scientologies. So if you were a regular person and you watch it, it's like, what is he talking about? But if you're a Scientologist watching it, it's like, oh my God, Tom Cruise is really like he's really a Scientologist. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:03

I was almost thinking we should do a like play some clips of that and respond to react to it.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I don't like playing clips because that opens the door to people doing copyright strikes and videos getting taken down. It's just much cleaner. And also, if they want to watch it, it's about 800 places on the interweb. So there's no there's tons of places people can watch the video.

SPEAKER_05 19:27

Yeah, if you haven't seen it, I'll put the link in this video description because it is um unique, shall we say.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah. So but what happens is so when that video got leaked, um, I'm pretty sure it was Mark Bunker who had the video up. And for some reason, not because he was made to, he took it down. He took the video down. And uh the internet assumed that they had gotten it taken down. And so that really sparked the whole anonymous thing where they sent them, you know, black faxes and did all kinds of nonsense online. And then it translated into real-world protests.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

And that's when it was like, oh, this is crazy, and then project channology and all this other stuff. But regardless of that, um the video if it's played for Scientologists, it makes Tom Cruise, the Scientologist, look awesome.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

If you play the video to non-scientologists, it makes Tom Cruise the actor look like he's batshit crazy. Yes. So that's why it's like if there's an accident, we we know we're the only ones who can help. And you're just like, what?

SPEAKER_05 20:44

And we should say too, Miscavige micromanaged every second of that video. So of anybody, he was the one that thought this was the most awesome video that had ever possibly been done in the universe. Yeah. And that is conversely the reason he wanted to stop it from going viral, because in the wrong pond, it looks like a whole different ball of wax.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

You know, that's also I think that came just maybe a few years after um Battlefield Earth. When did Battlefield Earth come out?

SPEAKER_05 21:24

Uh I want to say it was 2002 or 2003.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 21:28

Maybe even uh yeah. This is the same this is the same guy that's right. But it was it was b so the Tom Cruise video was after that.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, so but but David Miscavige, when that movie that he kind of shadow produced, when that movie was done, when the movie Battlefield Earth was completed, he said it was the best movie he had ever seen and it that's ever been made. And then, you know, as soon as Tom Cruise says it sucks, he's like, I know John Travolta, you know, goddammit, that guy really screwed the pooch on the This one.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

So he Oh, Trevan Own said Battlefield Earth was 2000. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

There you go. Yeah, that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

When you're not getting much sleep, the year is kind of blurred.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Either way, um yeah, Miscavige knew it the video would play weird outside of Scientology. It's crazy that they didn't think that was going to get leaked.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

I know.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

It's crazy that they didn't think that was going to get leaked.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Okay, next one. Yes. A lot of David Miscavige

Who Controls Scientology’s Money

SPEAKER_00 22:30

questions.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

Yeah, there you go. Does David Miscavige keep all the money they charge for this cult? So there's two answers to that. Number one, um. Every well, no, but hold on. Every Sea Org member is paid, you know, a set allocation per week, except David Miscavige. He pulls an annual salary, which in the scheme of things in a nonprofit is not so outrageous. When I was there, it was 250,000 a year. But in the scheme of following what Hubbard said, that's a whole different context. Second to that, it's not about where the money is necessarily, it's about who has control over it. He has complete, complete and utter control over all that money.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah. And he does doesn't have any personal expenses that he has to pay. So RTC's paying for everything. He's never built a house on the on one of their properties for him. They they build it. They build everything, and it's for LRH or it's for Tom or and then he stays in it. Yes. Like they have a mansion at the International Headquarters in Scientology in Gilman Hot Springs, where they built a giant, giant mansion for L. Ron Hubbard. And the as far as I know, the only people who've ever stayed at it is David Miscavige and Tom Cruise. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

And Chick Korea and Gail Korea.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Oh, they stayed there too. They did. Nice. Well, that I don't think they're around anymore, though.

SPEAKER_05 24:05

They're not.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

But either way, uh yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 24:11

It is.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

The house costs millions and millions and millions.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

I would say forty to fifty million.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

It was a lot.

SPEAKER_05 24:18

Yep.

Human Trafficking And Religious Visas

SPEAKER_05 24:20

Yep. I don't understand how human trafficking is involved with Scientology. Please explain. So I think what we'll do, what we'll likely do, unless Mark vetoes me, is um do a detailed episode on that. Because we had a lot of that in our lawsuit documenting how they're involved in human trafficking. Um, for example, in like a very specific, easy, short example, is that we have documentation that they had held my passport, for example, because I'm British, and we didn't get it back until four months after we escaped, which they gave us a document that listed my passport. So um so there's multiple ways, but they, you know, they move people around. They um anyway, there there's a lot of material on that that was covered in our lawsuit.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah. And just real quickly, when I was in um in Europe when we were building one of their big buildings out there in Denmark in Copenhagen, they had hundreds and hundreds of foreign nationals in Denmark. And what they would do is they'd go through those guys, and these guys were from Hungary, um from other uh countries in Europe where they couldn't they couldn't have they there was nowhere for them to work so that they could support their families or get some food or anything. So if they could join the Sea Org and they're gonna give them three hots and a cot and f forty bucks and forty-five bucks in cash, they could send twenty-five dollars of that a week to their family, and it they would be great in some of those places. So, um, and and again, this is back in the 90s, early 90s. So, but regardless, um, they get people in on religious visas, they get people in however they can. And one of these people that got got in on a religious visa for Scientology is cleaning toilets in the hotel rooms at the Scientology Hotel. She's not a minister, she's not delivering counseling, nothing. She is a room cleaner. And so they have a lot of people that they get from these from these other c countries from all over the world. And they usually, it's with a promise that you're gonna be able to do this and you're gonna make this money, and you can do this, and you can do that.

SPEAKER_05 26:46

There's even examples of that that we've seen recently through the work of the foundation of that even happening within the US.

SPEAKER_02 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:52

Like somebody's in a small town and they're like, oh, you get to go to Hollywood and da da da and promises, promises, promises, and they never, never, those promises never see reality. Ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Okay.

Why People Call It A Church

SPEAKER_05 27:12

Um why do so many many people call this cult a church? Yeah. They're just misinformed.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Well, yeah, no. Scientology got recognized by the IRS to be a tax-exempt organization, but because they did that, they then are a bona fide r religion in the eyes of the government. That they're nonprofit. But the only time in Scientology where we did religious stuff was for show.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

Completely.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

There was never there was never anything it's not like that. And any Scientologist that you ask will say, uh we don't we don't go someplace every Sunday. We don't pray to a person, we don't do we don't do any of that, but you're expected to go and get counseling, you know, two and a half hours a day. Every day, two and a half hours, or five days a week rather. Five days a week, two and a half hours of either counseling, uh w what's called Scientology auditing, or you're doing a course on how to become a counselor and learn more and more about the Scientology technology of counseling and all that.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

So I think you saw you've said it best. What's your sentence that you always say?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Oh, I stole that from I think I stole it from Brian Seymour or John Sweeney, which is it's a cult masquerading as a religion. Operating as operating as a business. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 28:43

Yeah, there you go. That's the best.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Anyway, it really does work. I can't remember it all. I either stole it from John Sweeney or Brian Seymour. I hope it was one of those two, because that's who I think I stole it from. And I and I actually might have stole it from both of them and mixed them together. I don't remember. Anyway, I plead the fifth.

SPEAKER_05 29:00

Um next. Oh dear. Um is disconnection

Generational Disconnection And Finding Faith

SPEAKER_05 29:05

generational? Could one of your sons get in touch with their Scientology grandparents as an adult?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

The reason they're not allowed to talk to us is because we're suppressive persons. So per their policies, anyone that's connected to us is also either a potential trouble source or themselves a suppressive person. Yep. So they're not allowed to talk to Just by connection.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

Doesn't matter if they were even ever in Scientology. Like your dad, your sister disconnected from him because he only because he helped us.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

He was connected to us, though.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

So she couldn't talk to him anymore because he was connected to us. And so he didn't have a he didn't really up until that point, he'd never ever done anything or said anything besides when him and my mom w moved to California and and she said, I'm gonna do Scientology, and he was like, I don't think so. And then they split because of that. But that was the only thing he ever did. He never he knew if he said anything bad, then he would lose contact with us, which is which is silly that it happened, and he didn't even really say anything. He for the whole time he never said a thing except for he didn't tell them that we were there with him when they were trying to find us.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

He didn't tell me that you were there when I was trying to find you.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Yeah. Good man, good man. Bernstein.

SPEAKER_05 30:40

Oh, I knew I knew though.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

I know. Told the next one.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

What is are the main reasons that so many ex-scientologists want nothing to do with traditional religion? So it's not all of them. No. It's just like, you know, we've been burned. Well, no, and also speaking for myself.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

But also, if you were in it, it it's this it's a sort of if you did something for let's just say 45 years and then it didn't work out and it was an organized religion, and you're it it's gonna take a little while for that sting to go away.

SPEAKER_05 31:16

Yeah, I call it healthy skepticism. But regardless about organized, organized anything. But that's true of anything. Like even, you know, whatever. Anyone who says who comes at us with it's our way or the highway, we're like, we'll take the highway.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Thanks. But also sometimes people need to um get out of Scientology and then live their lives. Yes. So uh I I I don't even for many, many years, even when we wrote the book, when I wrote my book and we did whatever we did, we did a a TV show, or we did a Lewis Thoreau film, or whatever we ended up participating in. Besides that, we're not doing, we're not dealing with any of that stuff. Now we have the foundation, and so that that takes a little bit more time out of the week as well to do some of that stuff. But it's not like I would say my life consists of uh five percent of it has to do with Scientology.

SPEAKER_05 32:19

Oh yeah. Maybe even less sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

But I'm just saying it's not, it's not it's not my whole existence is not that. I'm doing a million other things, and the only reason why I think we still do it is because there's still people that are in there. I feel this I feel uh guilty that if I was if I if I know something and I can spread the word about something that's bad, if it could help the people that are in it right now or help people not get in it, I think that's a worthwhile thing. Yes. Because we we saw things and we we looked and we we saw what was going on there and we know it's not right. Now that we're out, we're like, oh yeah, these guys are this is nuts. Because you don't a lot of Sea Org members don't even know that they could just leave right now. Even if it's there's gates, even if there's barbed wire, even if there's anything. If they go to the security gate and they say, I'm leaving, I'm out of here, and they say, No, you're not, that's false imprisonment. Right there. That's false imprisonment. So but Sea Org members don't know that.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

No, if you if it's and on top of that, through the foundation, there are hundreds of people that at the drop of a hat would go go pick somebody up and have done so. You know, obviously it's it's just I know it's but yeah, you're right. Like we come on here once a week to talk about things. You know, obviously I I work on things every day from my volunteer position with the aftermath. You you you do less so than I do, but you know, we keep our finger very much on the pulse. That is always the priority is helping people whenever somebody reaches out. That's always the priority. Um and it's not it's not for it's it's just because it's the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Yeah. And I don't, I mean, I've talked to a lot of ex-scientologists over the years, and I would say maybe even half of them find religion again after they leave Scientology.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

And maybe, maybe not, maybe 40 percent.

SPEAKER_05 34:21

But yeah, I would say less. I don't know. A lower percent.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Because I talked to a bunch of these guys. It seems as they get older, they sort of kind of go like, oh, you know, I my my whole my son's family goes to church every week. I'm gonna go to church with them.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

It is heavily influenced by g geographical location and familial connections. I would say those are big influences. But even in our case, like your cousins go to church. They've never once pressured us or even, you know, it's just not not a part of it. And you know, I've gone to church.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

They they they've bugged me about what channel what channel I watch the news on more than going to church.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

Yeah. But but and again, I've I've said this before, but there was a time when our son, our middle son, was like, he wanted to go to youth group at a church. And I was like, hmm, okay, well, we have to come with you and check it out. And and he was like, as we were driving there, I told him, I just want you to know I'm not I'm I support you in this, but this is way outside my comfort zone. And he said, Don't worry, mom, I'm not gonna sign any contracts.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Okay, good. Next one.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

Have you all explained the past

Past Lives, Thetans, Xenu Secrecy

SPEAKER_05 35:40

lives thing? No one has answered that for me, and I've asked everyone. Oh, interesting. Well, yeah, sure. We can so the concept is that Scientology believes that you're a spiritual being, which they refer to as a Thetan, and that you've existed on what they call the whole track, which is millions and millions of years. Trillions of years. And that, um, so the concept being that my I I'm a Thetan, Claire, and this is my meat body, and when this body dies, then I'm going to go pick up a new body. Similarly, last lifetime I was in a different body. And, you know, it's different than the concept of reincarnation. It's not the same.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

No. And also they they're of the belief that when you are Scientologists and you pass away, they they can help you find a new body. They can so the the time between this body and the next body is as short as possible of a time, so you can get right back to it. Yes. So they but yeah, that's basically it.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

And they also the cu the I want to make mention this because of course we we like to talk about Xenu and the body thetans, the space cooties. That is another reason why a lot of Scientologists go, that's not Scientology. We don't call it that. We don't call it a body thetan. Not knowing that they don't know that Hubbard wrote a whole thing where they do call it the body thetan.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

Right. You know what? Actually, Trevanon sent me a link to a current Scientologist doing an interview on a podcast recently.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:23

And just for giggles, I was like, fine, I'll I'll watch the whole thing. This this woman is, you know, probably in her 40s, mom, at least second or third generation Scientologist. And she was like, Oh yeah, no, we don't Xenu's not a thing. I'm like, Yeah. Oh really? So if a scientist clearly she hasn't done the upper levels. That's right. She's just literally lying. She just doesn't, she's lying, willfully ignorant.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

That's right, but she's she's not lying in her mind. No. Because she doesn't know about them yet. So Scientology not only is hiding the truth, but they're also hiding Xenu because they if if if I would say if nine if if uh 90% of the Scientologists heard were told this right off the bat, they would have been like, oh see ya. Even people like pr pr pretend you all know about the aliens. All Scientologists know about the aliens. There's definitely going to be people going like, hey man, stay get back. Um I got rid of all my space cooties, and you've still got them.

SPEAKER_05 38:32

Walking around with a bottle of Clorox.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Which is funny that Tom Cruise, uh, he is past that level. So he knows about the body things.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Of course he does.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

He knows about the space cooties, he knows about Xenu, he knows about all that.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

And I and I keep telling people, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm telling you. Tom Cruise is having the movie business, the the movie industry, and people buying tickets so that he can can like cosplay how to kill the aliens when they come. Because him and Dave have been wiping out space cooties for fucking decades.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Right. They've just been so when they come.

SPEAKER_05 39:19

For all the body thetans that David Miscavige has removed, he is hands down the singular most paranoid person I have ever met.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

He's got he's got ever. He didn't get rid of his uh his paranoid space cooties.

SPEAKER_05 39:34

Yeah, which is which is so ironic because L. Ron Hubbard describes a pr a suppressive person as being ultimately paranoid, fighting aliens, stuck in a past incident, fighting aliens. I'm like, well, I don't know. We've got some wires crossed there, folks. I hate to break it to you.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Yeah. When when Hubbard has his lectures, like if you listen to his recorded lectures, of which there are thousands of these lectures. Thousands. And they're usually about, I don't know, 45 minutes to two hours is how long one of these lect lectures are, these recorded lectures that he gave.

SPEAKER_04 40:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

He talks about wild places in the universe, and he does that all the time. So it's not like a stretch that a science fiction writer who started a crazy cult, their higher t teachings are that we're there's a whole bunch of aliens we're at war with, and you gotta get all the the body fate and space goodies out of your body, otherwise they're gonna make you get up to doing nonsense.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

Yeah, exactly. And and the um the documentation of that plagiarism is well covered. Well, yeah. Like Zenu and Zimu.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah. And I think it was in Marvel. I've I keep looking this up and I keep not finding it.

SPEAKER_05 40:53

Somebody sent it to me. Somebody sent me a whole breakdown of it that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

I was like, I'm pretty sure it's like the 1940s Marvel comics.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

Yeah, so when Dianetics failed, L. R.H.D. was like, I know an idea. Let's switch to aliens.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Anyway, I think we've answered the past live question where to get here.

SPEAKER_05 41:16

If that didn't cover it, Tambor, shoot me an email and I'll go into more detail for you. Okay.

Sea Org Makework And CD Assembly

SPEAKER_05 41:23

Was there really enough serious work for people to do all the time, or was it just make work?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

It was 100% make work.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

There's like guys, this is the craziest thing when you're in the Sea Org because well, the organization that we worked in, when she Claire worked in just for a few years and then she moved up. She got promoted to uh the highest organization there is in Scientology, um Religious Technology Center or RTC. Um, I stayed in gold. And in gold, there was about 300, I'd say 300 to 350 over the years of how many people were in Golden Era Productions. And sometimes it'd grow by 80 people, and because those 80 people were in a different organization, and they kind of got taken out of that organization because they weren't really higher management things, and they got pushed into Golden Era Productions. So there's a lot, it was hundreds and hundreds of people. And if you're the galley cleaner, and you c w mop the floors and you clean the kitchen and you, you know, mount mop the bathrooms, you're you're irreplaceable. Nobody can do your job. You're the only person who can do it. There's no possible way you can take a day off or go visit a family for two weeks. And that was the way it was for every single post. It's like they're doing this is how the C org stays busy. On their organizing board, there's a thousand posts on the board, but there's never a thousand people to go with the board. So people end up doing three or four or five different hats that might belong to people that should be junior to them, but because there's nobody working under them, they have to do everything.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

And so it's so funny to me when it's like, hey, we no, you can't go do this, you can't go that, you can't go to your dad's wedding in Las Vegas, you can't do this, you can't and then it's like, why? It's because we can't afford for you to be gone. And guess what? I've been gone for 21 years, and somehow you figured it out.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

So that to me is one of these things in the C org, you're do and there's so much paper. So much paper. There's seven divisions standardly in a Scientology organization, and all seven of those divisions are cranking out paper and the that have to be stored and kept in the personnel folder, or the staff folder, or the student folder, or the auditing folder. It's just like you're like, this is the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_05 43:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

And it takes a lot for people to move all that paper around.

SPEAKER_05 44:03

I know. You have to have a lot of buildings to store said paper. Yeah, and not only that, even if you're current on your work and you're up to date, you haven't factored in the all hands. Like even when I was gonna replace it. When I was in religious technology center, remember? I remember everybody was doing packaging CDs.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

So this is a great story, too, because she was in the highest organization, Religious Technology Center. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_05 44:35

And I was the fastest CD stuffer on the entire property.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

But when they would have to go to an all hands in Golden Air Productions, they're now the lowest of the lowest jobs that exists in Golden Air Productions is you're taking a CD and putting it in a sleeve.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

It requires minimal, minimal intelligence levels to do that. You just do that.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

It doesn't even require sleep because you would just be walking down a line. Yeah. Like do do so. We were doing that often with zero or maybe two hours sleep or whatever. I mean, I think sometimes people would literally fall asleep standing up. But the point is you're moving down a line. So you don't even, there's no you're right. It's literally like robot work.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

It's 100% robot work because every other company that's doing that is doing it with a robot. There's no other place in the world that's making CDs. Yeah. Which making a CD is there's a lot of steps, but there's a lot of automated processes that have to deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

And putting them in the packaging, that's a robot's job. It was a lot of makework. A lot of fine. Oh, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

While we're on this topic, let me show this comment. And Goller Hill in the chat. CD all hands, baby. Hours upon hours of this mindless work with no sleep. I definitely fell asleep standing up a couple of times. I think we all did at some point. So yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Yeah, it's makework.

SPEAKER_05 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Tons and tons of makework.

SPEAKER_05 46:10

Yeah, because as we talked about last week, we're making all those CD sets that then literally went and sat in a storage facility.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Rush, rush, rush, did them.

SPEAKER_05 46:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

With all those people, and then they sat for five years in storage.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

Mind-boggling nonsense. Okay. I wonder

Stress, No Healthcare, Cancer Fallout

SPEAKER_05 46:28

how many cases of cancer were as a direct result of the intense stress people experience in the Sea Org. Do you reckon some cancer is triggered by stress that would have been triggered, that wouldn't have been triggered without the added stress? Absolutely 100%. And of course, when you factor in that there's no access to just routine medical care.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:53

There's no annual checkups. You have no health insurance. Even if you feel sick, chances are you would not go to this to the trouble to get approved to go to the doctor because then you're you're going to trigger a whole other mess of nonsense. Well, so by the time you're talking about it.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

If you say you need to go to the doctor and you're sick, that means you're a potential trouble source. Yep. So that means you have to get usually it involves you getting interrogated and made to like, hey, what are you not saying you're up to or you're doing because you're connected to an SP right now and you're sick.

SPEAKER_05 47:29

And so And if you factor in, if the person was required to drive for their job, yeah, they would be off the road. They would be that that right that privilege would be revoked until they'd gone through the handling. So all of that to say that we saw many, many cases where somebody would just literally be on a steady decline. Also, extreme weight loss happened all the time, you know, when people went on the decks. So by the time I can I off the top of my head, I can think of at least 15 cases where by the time the person made it to the doctor, their diagnosis was stage four.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

And and also because you're always you're always tired and achy.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

And you're always hungry and you're always don't have enough sleep. And on top of all that, you get stressed out.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

So it's 100% the it it's actually kind of crazy that we've been out for 20 years, over 21 years. I know more people that were in the Sea Org that died of cancer in the 15 years that we were there.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Than than the whole 21 years outside of that. It's like I know a few people. Yeah. I know a handful of people, but not just like like 20 names I could list. You know, you just go like, okay, there was this guy, there was this guy, there was this one.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

I know, without even having to think about it. I know. And that's out of and and we were, and factor in, we were younger then. Yes. So so were the people we were talking about, much, much younger.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Yeah. And also that's only like a sample of a thousand people. Right. So it's crazy the percentage. I would say the percentage of people that have worked at that property, I would say it's 30% of those people have had cancer or had to get treated for the city. That's a conservative estimate. But that's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

It is crazy. Yeah. Oh

Scientology Ads And Recruiting Backfires

SPEAKER_05 49:26

okay. The last time I saw any public anything from Scientology was about when you started this channel. Are they running silent now, or am I just not seeing their BS anymore? So they are still. We we get people right in all the time. Actually, somebody wrote in last week saying, Oh, isn't this funny? I went to watch your video and there was a Scientology ad at the beginning of our video.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

Yeah, I don't know who runs the Scientology YouTube channel. It seems like they might not be all there. I'm not I'm not I mean, what are I mean, why would they pay us? Why would they pay us to put their hands up? It makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_05 50:09

Oh my god, so many questions.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

If you're in Scientology and you work on the interwebs and you're able to see this, get in the your YouTube settings and say which websites or key names you don't want your you can type in Scientology or blown for good.

SPEAKER_05 50:30

We don't have to tell them how to do it. They can just keep sending people our way and we'll help them get out.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

I've mentioned this multiple occasions. Like hey, stop putting your ads on our stuff. We can actually refuse on our end with the ads from them too, I think.

SPEAKER_05 50:45

We can?

SPEAKER_01 50:46

I'm pretty sure we could.

SPEAKER_05 50:47

Oh, I didn't I don't think that's a thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna research this out, folks. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

I mean, I don't I don't mind.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

I do.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

Well, no, I do mind. I should clarify that. If they are driving people to our channel.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Well, no, they're not driving them. They're already here watching.

SPEAKER_05 51:04

Okay. Yeah. So they're trying to miss their withholds by playing an ad for Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

No, they're trying to tell them like maybe it's like verifying our video is real. It's like, oh, these guys are talking some crazy smack, but check out our wishes.

SPEAKER_05 51:18

If you're one of the people watching that, you know, you're still in, just get out. We'll help you.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Completely. They always say, I wish I left earlier. Because it was basically just a giant waste of time. Yep. If you're in the Sea Org and you've been working for the Amazon, and we truly don't wish that on anybody.

SPEAKER_05 51:47

Really. So um Holy moly.

LGBTQ, Celebrities, And Double Standards

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Okay. Next one.

SPEAKER_05 51:51

Catherine Bell, Lieutenant Colonel Sarah McKenzie from JAG is a Scientologist and a lesbian. She's living with a Scientologist woman. How is this viewed within Scientology?

SPEAKER_01 52:03

I you know, I've talked about this with some people that knew a lot about this. And it's like Scientology is like, she's too big of a celebrity for us to mess with.

SPEAKER_05 52:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

But she's not really that big of a celebrity.

SPEAKER_05 52:19

Aaron Ross Powell No, but I'm sure she's given them a lot of money and she has a public platform.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

So they don't they don't whereas in the past they don't want to create another Leah.

SPEAKER_05 52:29

Right. In the past, I mean there's no way they approve of it. There's no way. They're just not wanting to rock the boat, basically.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Or she's on she has a handling that they're gonna do with her.

SPEAKER_05 52:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Unbeknownst to her.

SPEAKER_05 52:45

And um just like they're doing one with John Travolta, unbeknownst to him.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yeah, they're doing things they're saying that things are happening, and then everybody kind of just is like, well, we'll not push it. You know, just like she's if somebody somewhere writes a report, they'll be like, hey, she's in the middle of a program right now, and da-da-da-da-da. And you're just like, what?

SPEAKER_05 53:06

And you know what? The significant shift on this specific topic was absolutely the New Yorker article that Paul Haggis did.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 53:15

Um, because that was covered extensively there, and it's become way more complicated. They're absolutely uh They're against it. They're against it. Elrun Hubbard. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Basically, El Run Hubbard pretty much He doesn't prohibit it. But he basically says it's the worst possible thing. People they're covert, hostile.

SPEAKER_05 53:37

He compares them to lepers and says they should be put on an island and left to die. I mean, that's no place where he says extreme as it gets. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

There's no place where he says these guys are good and go for it. It's all bad and it's it's and I'm pretty sure you can't even be in the Sea Org.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

No.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

Sometimes you can't even be in the Sea Org if you've had thoughts about that. Right. Just thoughts.

SPEAKER_05 54:02

Yeah, we know a few different people who actually manufactured said thoughts to get exited off the imp base on, you know, like it's the instantaneous, like, oh, I had a thought about David Miscavige. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

That's true. I didn't even think about that.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

But there was a guy in a meeting with David Miscavige, and David Miscavige was like, that guy's got something going on. And he just pointed at this guy out of 20 people in the conference room, and they took hauled him off to get interrogated. And he's he said, Yeah, I was I was thinking about David Miscavige taking care of me under the table. And he literally was gone in 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:40

And in 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 54:42

We were secretly jealous. Let's just call it.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Holy moly, I was like, I was literally like that's the express route, dude.

SPEAKER_05 54:49

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

They rounded him up, got all his stuff, put him in a car, drove away in 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_05 54:56

I know. And it's so ironic that even in this, even in the moment, like I couldn't like put putting myself back in my younger self, I couldn't imagine doing that, like saying that, because that would be a lie. I don't know. It's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

But the crazy part is, but the craziest part is that the second it it was going around, I was like, oh my God, that is the biggest bullshit ever. He had he he He was married. He knew that would do it. He knew.

SPEAKER_03 55:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

He just knew it. Anyway.

SPEAKER_05 55:30

It was brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 55:31

Um didn't you talk to him just the other?

SPEAKER_05 55:34

Yes. Yeah, no, absolutely. I I have to remember to to g give him a pat on the back again. I've done that before. Um I'm saying that we're I'm calling it for today. We'll do this last one and then we'll answer some questions from the chat and then we'll do our giveaway because we're almost at an hour.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

So you can't read this one?

SPEAKER_05 55:54

Yeah. I said I would I said I would read.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

And how many more after this?

SPEAKER_05 55:57

I don't know. That's I'm just oh, come on. Okay, we're almost done. Fair enough. Fine, fine, fine. Easy. Alrighty then. Are

Returning, Payoffs, And Marty Rathbun]

SPEAKER_05 56:05

you aware of people who not being able to adapt to the outside world return to Scientology after escaping? I heard Marty Rathbun supposedly did it. Yeah, there are there there have been cases of that. It's not very common.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

I don't think it's them not being able to adapt to the outside world. It's usually they their Scientology thinks that they are much, much worth worth much, much more to them inside Scientology than outside Scientology. Um I and and and I a lot of people say that Marty Rathbun went back. He didn't go back anywhere. He's just working with them and they've made peace with each other because they were threatening to do some things that would ruin his life in his perspective. And and the only way he could get out of that situation was to basically say the exact opposite of what he'd been saying for the, you know, several years up until that point. And he had to basically discredit himself and discredit every single other person that he, you know, was in cahoots with on exposing Scientology.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

So he didn't go it's not like he's back there and David Miscavige and him and him are buddies and they're ri writing to each other every day, talking about how everything's awesome. He is still living wherever he was living, and he still has his wife and his kid, and they're doing their thing. And he probably doesn't even still have to do anything for them. I don't know. I have to do that.

SPEAKER_05 57:43

I'm sure I personally would would say.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

You think he's still doing videos?

SPEAKER_05 57:47

No. I do believe they paid him off.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:49

And I I know for a positive fact, Scientology destroyed Marty Rathbin utterly. They not only like Scientology is never going to trust him. Anyone outside Scientology is never going to trust him. They've documented him like he told his story, and now he's basically canted all of that on their paid promote promotional videos. So hit him as a respected person of any integrity is destroyed.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Okay. But he's not back in Scientology. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

No.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

I'm not defending him. I'm just saying he made a deal with them. He did a bunch of dopey stuff, and then they left him alone, and then he's living his life. That's it. And then they have ton they have enough money to live comfortably for the rest of time. So they're good. That's what happens. People get people get bought off. That's true. That's another thing. I could probably list 20 people that we know that have been paid off. So they're like, hey.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

They tried to pay pay us off.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

They tried to pay Mike off. Mike Render.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

Yeah. They have they've basically tried to silence as many people as possible. And the ones that they haven't been able to silence, there's not really anything else else that they can do because they have been harassing us for 20 years. So it's sort of like that's a long time to get harassed by somebody. It really is. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_05 59:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:19

Next one.

Scones, Bubble And Squeak

SPEAKER_05 59:20

Um, do you know what bubble and squeak is? And do you say scone or scone? Scone. I say scone, but I know a lot of people say scone. Uh bubble and squeak. Okay, yes, vaguely. I know I'd have to look it up on Google, but it's like a batter, uh, a dish. I think it's a dish that has like pancake batter with sausages kind of a thing. But I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

We're about to find out.

SPEAKER_05 59:49

It's been forever. I'm way, way too uh far removed from my English roots.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

It looks like a quiche.

SPEAKER_05 59:59

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Yeah?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:01

Oh. Did you say in English?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Bubble and squeak is an English dish made from cooked potatoes and cabbage mixed together and fried. The food writer, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, it looks like Yeah, that's what it does look like. And now that they say the potatoes, yeah, I can see it. It's like potato. It's like hot potatoes like a hot potato.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:23

The thing I was describing is toad in the hole. Love food kitchen. Just said that. Yeah. There you go. So no. Scone didn't know what bubble and squeak was, never had it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

I changed it to a new one.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:36

Oh.

Love, Dating, And Control At Base

SPEAKER_05 1:00:37

Had Claire and Mark ever said that it was love at first sight when they first met? Um So the the hard part there for me is that the C org is not conducive to a love at first sight type scenario. It's more like, is this gonna work or is it not gonna work?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

You also have to hold your clo your cards pretty close to your vest when you're dealing with stuff like that, because there's a lot of people watching, and you can get in a lot of trouble real quick. Yeah. And that in that that's David Miscavige's Dave. If there's one thing David Miscavige loves more than any other thing, it's when there's drama and sex and like just like debauchery.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

He just goes, he he'll spend a week telling everybody he ha he could behind closed doors. Hey, did you hear about you know ball de ball? Yeah. What he was doing when he would get home at night, and he told me. Oh my god. And then he'll tell you you there's there's no way you probably hadn't heard a whisper of it, something of it, but he will tell you in excruciating detail everything the person was up to.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:46

And and revel in the fact that he was the one who said, Hey, get that guy, that guy's doing something. That happened all the time.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:56

It did. And also I've been reflect reflecting on this particular question in working through my book. And it I realized particular question of what? About you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

Yeah, and I realized You love at first sight.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:10

Yeah. And I realized, just let me get to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:12

I realized that being that I was born and raised in Scientology, I always had this kind of built-in expectation that the person I would marry would be uh uh on the upper levels of Scientology and highly trained and yada yada yada. You didn't fit that mold.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:31

But that first day when we went to the movies, it's like this guy is hilarious. He's down to earth, he has the best eyes and eyelashes I think I've ever seen. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

I like it. Good stuff there, guys.

Merch Plug And The Davy Doll

SPEAKER_05 1:02:48

All right, Zeno and the Body Thetans 2026 tour collection. If you haven't checked it out, do so after this video.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

Yeah, and John, the one who did the artwork for this, he has so many things he wants to do with this new merch line. So whenever he sends us new artwork, we'll put it up and we'll make an make new stuff with it. But Xeno and the Body Thetans. Yes. If you want to show support for the channel, you can hit the the like and subscribe buttons. But you can also go to the merch store. And usually in these videos, um, after it's published, after the live, the products and everything will show up.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:26

Yep. And uh we will not be here next weekend, but we'll be back the weekend after we're gonna be able to. We'll have content coming. Yeah, we'll have to show you. I'm just setting the expectation. People always get worried about what I've done to you when you don't show up.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

Okay. Let's see if we can go. We know we almost forgot.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:44

Forgot what?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

The giveaway.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:45

Oh, yes. Okay, let's do the giveaway. Any questions we missed, Catherine? Please just call those and we'll do those in a new layout here. QA.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Look at that. There we go. Perfect.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:56

All right, yes. Perfect. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:59

Ooh, ooh, ooh, uh, ooh. Milo Ness. Congratulations. Send me an email, Claire at blownforgood.com with your address, and you will become the proud owner of a fake Navy Davy doll that alleges allegedly causes alarm and distress. But in my experience, that's only if you've personally witnessed David Miscavige beating somebody up. That's the only time it actually causes alarm and distress.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

That's true. Could be triggered to somebody he was beaten on. I never thought, I never thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Could be triggering to his victims.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:36

It was for stimulating to the staff member who saw it. Because they said they have witnessed.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

I know. With those guys that he beats him.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:45

Alex is in the chat, so hopefully he caught that part. Wait, guys, sorry to spoil the surprise, but it's Zenu. They're hiding Zenu, and it's about time we band together and demand his immediate release. Power, Thetans Unite. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

My theory is that he's already been out.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:03

Who?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

Zenu. He's already gotten out. He's not locked up in the house. No, he's he's out in the wilderness because the the tech that they locked him in the mountain with was old ancient battery technology. We have such better battery technology now.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

What? You want me to put it on here?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:23

Yeah, when you're talking, it's better if you're on the camera.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

It's okay. I'll do it. I'll do it that way too.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:30

Anyway, thank you for that, Alex. Waiting patiently in Tempe, Arizona. Nice. Hi from Sunland, California, Angel Cat. Hello from Copenhagen, Denmark. Happy Sunday from Portland, Oregon. Good evening from the Netherlands. Howdy from Henderson, Nevada. Hi from New Mexico. Howdy from Northern California. Willamette Valley, Oregon. Uh Necessary Trouble. Hey everyone from Montana.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

It's a lot of people in there.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:59

Happy to catch a lot. Hello, everyone from Moorhead, Minnesota. Greetings from North Carolina, Betsy Sue. Excellent video with Chris. Thank you, Necessary Trouble. Yeah, it was a great conversation. We'll do definitely do more. Much love from Avondale, Arizona. Nice. Finally catching you live from Memphis, Tennessee. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Just there.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:21

Greetings from Florida. Glad to see you today. Good to see you too. Hi from Palm Bay, Florida. Hello from Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Love all the great and amazing work you guys are doing. Thank you so much. Edmonton, Canada in the house. Nice. Media, Pennsylvania. All right, Julie. Hello from Winnipeg, Manitoba, in the fantastic center of Canada. I would love a Davy doll. I'm subscribed. Good job. Thank you. Better luck next time. Louisiana checking in. Nice. Good evening from South Africa.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:58

Oh, here goes a good one.

Book Progress And Community Updates

SPEAKER_05 1:07:00

Okay. Is Claire's book still in the works? Yes, absolutely. Now, uh, I will say I've been on the struggle bus. Now I've I have 94,000 words down, so now I have to trim it back down. I have one last draft chapter left to finish, and I'm working through the editing process. But get on over to my Substack. We have it linked in the video description. That's where I'm announcing book updates and progress and everything else. I will be announcing the cover and title very soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

Whoa.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:32

Yay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

Okay, here. Okay. A few last ones here.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:38

Okay. Alabama, take me to your leader. Question. If you had one message for Pat Broker, what would it be? Oh, I'd have a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Yeah, just tell just say what happened.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:51

Yeah, just just download everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Well, you know what he could do? He could just write everything that did happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:56

Or just record it on a video. A voice memo. Send us a voice memo. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Or he could tape it and just say everything that happened in his own words. Yep. And then, you know, put like it put it this when this uh will is executed, please send these tapes to Blown for Good. Yeah. Incorporated.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:17

I would love to hear his description of the night when they went and raided where he was at to retrieve the OT materials that don't exist. Drove by the Imp base for the first time last weekend. Drove into town to look at the Walmart where Claire escaped. Oh wow, wish there was a marker on the road where Mark got run off the road. Oh, wouldn't that be epic?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

I think there actually is on Google Maps.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:40

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:41

Somebody had some what had one there for a while, but I don't know if they still have it.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:46

Oh my gosh. We should totally put a we can put it right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

We know the exact spot.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

Exactly. Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

unknown 1:08:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:54

Baba do. Well.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:55

Uh hello from London.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:57

Thanks for staying up late.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

Speaking Satan. Yes. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

Satan. It says Satan's Satan.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:01

Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

That's a good one. I like that one.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:05

Yep. Uh SP Spanklish. Oh, Jacob Harkey in the house. Oh, and I guess S. P. Spanglish is here. Well, hello both. Good to see you both. Thank you, thank you.

HowdyCon And Upcoming Appearances

SPEAKER_05 1:09:13

Oh, before I forget, I think there might be a few last tickets to HowdyCon, which is an event that Tony Ortega is putting on in New London, Connecticut in September. And I'll be speaking at that event. Uh, Phil Jones, Alex, Barnes Ross, Chris Shelton. Anyway, it'll be it'll be an awesome um agenda. So anyone watching that has any interest in attending, I think, like I said, last I looked, there were maybe three tickets left. I have it from a good source that Tom Cruise can in fact fly. Yes, he does have his pilot license.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Yeah, that was a big thing when um when he was going to the wherever he was I think it was out in the uh in the desert near where the base was. And they were going to army bases and he was getting flights and it was he was definitely doing it for real.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Oh, is that uh I don't know who that is, and I can't see it because it's too much.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:16

Okay.

Sea Org Food Myths And Reality

SPEAKER_05 1:10:17

Uh Amber, Amber Vanessa. There is so many different lies they tell you. When I was growing up, everybody would tell me gold was a place to go, and you're gonna eat lobster and steak every day. Oh my god. You're right, Amber. So many lies. We never had lobster.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Not once. I don't think we did. I did.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:39

Oh god. So not because it was served for the make meal. And and it's a miracle you're still alive after this story, by the way. Listen to this.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

Whenever I was working on the events for a while, I would go on the actual event. I would travel to Clearwater, Florida, or UK or the free winds and the Caribbean, wherever it was, we'd go to put on the event. But then as I got promoted up, I was in charge of logistics and getting things to and from the event and being able to transfer files or edits or videos that got fixed, being able to transfer those to them so that then they had it for the event. And my friends, uh it was actually the commanding officer of Golden Air Productions, Lisa, and two other guys that when they would go when I wouldn't go, they would always pack up a bunch of the food they got to eat that was really good. And they would literally take a plate, wrap it with foil, stick it in a FedEx box, and send it to me. No matter where they were. It was the running joke we had. Well, when they were on the free winds one year during the event, they took a plate, they put lobster, shrimp, a bunch of stuff on this plate, wrapped it in foil, and put it in a FedEx box and sent it to me. And I had it sitting in my office and it was a FedEx. I didn't know what it was, so I was like, okay, let me open this up. And it was the food they sent from the Caribbean via FedEx. I took the foil off, of course, and I put it in the microwave, heated up, and ate the whole thing. It was so good.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:16

Not recommended, by the way. Do not put this on your bucket list, folks. It is not recommended.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Okay, was there another super chat?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:26

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:27

I didn't tell if there was.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:28

Uh we did eat steak. Yes, we did sometimes have steak.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:36

But it wasn't the best cut, but it was it was good. It was good in food.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:41

So David Miscavige had different meals than everybody else, obviously. And his his personal staff, so sometimes the executives on the property, depending on what happened what was happening, would get different meals. And sometimes those included steak.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:56

Yeah, that's right. They had what was he called? The executive chef.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

The executive chef would cook. And there was also a pastry chef. And most of he made chocolate chip cookies and you know He used to make those apple strudel things. Yeah. He would make desserts for everybody. Yeah. But the main person that he was making stuff for was Dave. Yes. He was making him snacks and little cookies.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:19

He made the best tiramisu I think that has I've ever tasted.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

It was an Italian guy named Ponuccio.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:25

Ponuccio, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:28

Sorry I'm late.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

This person's late.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:30

Question. Sorry I'm late to the live stream and submitting my question. I'm curious about what the country, government, society would be like if Scientology ruled. Thanks so very much for all you do. Thank you for tuning in. Outlaw comedy.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

That's the first thing they'd do.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:49

Joking and degrading is now illegal.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:51

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:53

You have to sneak into a comedy show.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:55

They would shut down all comedy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

And uh look, Trevadon said, but did you have steak? Yeah. Yeah, we did have a few.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

We did have steak. Yeah, exactly.

Dumpster Meals And Punishment Culture

SPEAKER_05 1:14:05

Sometimes we had steak.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

Sometimes it wasn't it wasn't like we were eating slop like in a prison system. But I'll tell you this, they spend more money on prison food than the Sea Org spends on Sea Org food per per capita.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:24

To be fair, we've never had prison food. So for all we know, it was better than what we were eating. We just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

Well that's what I'm saying. The prisons are getting more money allocated for food items per capita than the Sea Org allows.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:39

I mean, how many times have you covered the muscle stew menu item? Everything on that was in the kitchen that must go just. They said anyone who is in a lower condition, you have to go to the back dumpsters, the trash compactor.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:16

And you have to eat back there. And for a trash compactor that serves a a property that has, you know, more than 500 staff on it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

Oh no, there's a lot of staff.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:29

The reek of said trash compactor alone would make you throw up.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:34

The part that was the best about it though, because I was in that, I was out, I was out there a bunch of times.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:38

I I was supposed to uh I was assigned to the case.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

I know, but this is the best part is because when you go out there, it's the great equalizer. You got people from RTC out there, you got people from the Commodore's Messenger Organization International out there, and then you got executive strata people out there, and then you got gold, and it's like I'm the lowest guy in gold, and I'm standing right next to the highest person in this other organization.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

We're both eaten by the dumpster. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:07

Oh yes. Boy, oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:11

Oh, super cheap.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:13

Oh, uh, thank you for your years of dedication, bringing awareness, and helping people reclaim their lives. Well, thank you. Thank you for supporting our work. We appreciate it. We could not do it without the support of many people uh who have never been in Scientology and who support this cause. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:32

Yeah. This guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:34

Oh, Phil, Phil Jones in the house. When I worked at a mine in the Yukon, they had professional chefs, pastry chefs from France, and we ate incredibly well. Steak every week, not at all like the Sea Org. Right. That's what I'm saying. We don't have the comparison.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Well, I was I used to watch I used to watch this show called Gold Rush.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

And it's these guys that are they're mining, you know, hundreds and thousands of acres and they're moving dirt around and they have dozers and all this stuff. They hire a professional chef. That's uh that sounds like z similar to what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

Is that they had a professional chef there. If you're going to be working in the middle of nowhere and you're not seeing your family and all these other things, and you better get fed well.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:25

Nobody wants to meet a hangry headly, that's for sure. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, no, I'm definitely hi Mark, Claire, and chat.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:34

I finally made it to a live. Sweet and salty, good to see you. Nice. Nice, awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:39

Yeah, we we what so we're gonna do you're gonna you have a video coming out next week.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:46

Next week, yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:46

And then the next week after that, we'll probably be back.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:50

Okay,

Final Thanks And Where To Listen

SPEAKER_01 1:17:51

guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:51

Yes, we made it to the very end. Thank you to everyone tuning in this fine Sunday. Uh, we appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

Yeah, and anybody who wants to be in the end credits with their comment, jam them in there now because uh I'm gonna start popping them up.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:07

Till next time, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:09

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Bye. Thanks for watching. If you'd like to help support the channel, feel free to check out the merch store link in the description. We have Hail Xenu. Xenu is my homeboy and BFT branded mouse pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts of other stuff in there that helps us to bring you new content on a regular basis. You can also pick up a copy of my book, Blown for Good Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology in hardback, Kindle, and Audible versions as well. There's also a link to our podcast, and you can get that on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to watch another video, you can click on this link right here, or you can click on this one here, or you can click on the subscribe button right here. Thanks a lot, until next time.