Ethical ADHD Coaching with Cathy Rashidian

Today I have a truly special guest joining us – my friend and esteemed colleague, Cathy Rashidian. Cathy is a certified executive coach with a unique focus on ADHD in the workplace. With over 20 years of leadership experience and a personal journey with ADHD, Cathy combines traditional coaching techniques with ADHD-specific strategies to empower her clients. She holds credentials from the International Coach Federation (ICF) and the Professional Association of ADHD Coaches (PAAC), and she's a lead trainer at ADD Coach Academy. She's also the host of the "Proudly ADHD at Work" podcast and a sought-after speaker on neurodiversity in the workplace.

In this episode, we discuss the responsibilities of the coaching industry, especially for those specializing in ADHD. We discuss the explosive growth of the coaching field, the importance of proper training and credentials, and how to find a coach who operates with integrity. Cathy shares her journey from corporate leadership to becoming an ADHD coach and provides invaluable advice for both aspiring coaches and those seeking coaching services. Join us as we unpack what it truly means to be a responsible and effective coach in today's world.

Episode Highlights:

[3:40] - Cathy's journey to becoming an ADHD coach and her diagnosis.

[7:49] - The difference between effective coaching and mere advice-giving.

[10:35] - The dangers of unqualified coaching and why proper training is crucial.

[14:18] - The rigorous process of getting a coaching program ICF-approved.

[18:03] - How to determine if a coaching relationship is the right fit for you.

[22:00] - The importance of tracking progress and seeing micro-progress in coaching.

[28:51] - Creating a responsibility checklist for coaches to ensure ethical practices.

[39:28] - The financial realities of being a coach and balancing passion with business.

Connect with Cathy Rashidian:

https://www.readysetchoose.com/ 

Thank you for tuning into "SuccessFULL with ADHD." If this episode has impacted you, remember to rate, follow, share, and review our podcast. Your support helps us reach and help more individuals navigating their journeys with ADHD.

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Transcript

Cathy Rashidian  00:00

What happens with ADHD coaching? The shame, the guilt, the noise of is it me? Is it my ADHD I can't figure this out, all of that gets subsided. And it's through those little bits that they're like I figured myself out finally. But it's to do it on your own. You sit in constant rumination and catastrophize ation and you're sitting there doing it on your own, and my belief wholehearted and I want to tattoo this somewhere on my body to be like don't do ADHD alone. I've always said that. If you have a neurodivergent brain, you need to have a thinking partner, but at the right time at the right place so that you can keep progressing and then coming back again if you need to.

Brooke Schnittman  00:43

Welcome to successful with ADHD. I'm Brooke Shipman. Let's get started. Welcome back to a very special episode of successful with ADHD. Today I have my great friend and colleague and someone I've worked very closely with over the past six years. Kathy, Rishi Gideon. She's a certified executive coach who specializes in ADHD in the workplace. Combining over 20 years of leadership experience with her personal ADHD journey. Her coaching merges traditional techniques with ADHD specific strategies empowering clients to unlock their full potential in their career. Kathy holds credentials from the internal coach Federation, the ICF, which is the gold standard of coaching my friends and the professional association of ADHD coaches also known as PAC. And Cathy also shines as a lead trainer at add coach Academy also known as Agha shaping future ADHD coaches. She hosts the proudly ADHD at work podcast and is noted speaker on neurodiversity in the workplace providing insightful solutions for managing ADHD can breed these expertise? Gabby's expertise supports organizations and crafting bespoke coaching programs for employees with ADHD. Very warm welcome. And I'm so glad that you put all that in your bio, because today we are going to be talking about all the nuances of the wild wild west coaching industry. That is, I just read a report that in 2019 to 2023, there is a 60% uptake in coaching. And then in 2024, compared to 2023, there's a projected 20,000 more coaches, which totals 145,000 Plus, but in my personal opinion, I bet you there's more out there that aren't certified or don't have their credentials and aren't registered as coaches. So this coaching industry has really taken off as a boom. And I am thrilled to have Cathy here here today because Cathy worked for coaching with Brooke as part of just like a contractor position while she was also doing her own ADHD coaching company. So I trust her invaluable Lee, I don't know if that's a word. Because I know how she coaches I observed her coach, I know the impact that she creates on teams, leaders on other ADHD years. And she's done the work. She's experienced it as an ADHD er and has worked with hundreds of clients. So Kathy, real quick, just so people understand your journey. Take us through when you got ADHD diagnosis and when you became a coach.

Cathy Rashidian  03:40

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. When did I become a coach, I, one could say that I was always wearing the coaching hat because I had different leadership roles in the 20 years that I was in corporate Canada. So but it wasn't until I got my diagnosis in 2018, that my whole career made sense. The part about my career that was around leadership even made that much more sense, because because for me, I'm a natural kind of leader at heart, not the type of leader that tells you what to do. But the type of leader that says we're walking and collaborate together. Yeah. So it made sense for me. And I chose the coaching path because it was time it was like, you know, I've done this other tech stuff, the marketing stuff for 20 years now that I know how my brain works. I want to be more intentional about it. So I took the strength that I had and amplified it, which was coaching and went down the rabbit hole of training and the more I learned about the art of coaching, the more it was like oh my god, every people manager, frontline staff, everybody should learn the true art of coaching and coaching isn't something that was like you know, got fancy or tried It will maybe it is nowadays. But it's been around for a long time. And it's been around and it's been done effectively for a long time. There's a lot of research on the effectiveness side of coaching, especially in the, in our community in our ADHD community. There's papers on it, therapists that talk about it. So it works. But it works when the person does it with integrity, with high ethics with high standards, that that's why I love working with you. And I still love working with you. It's it's you come from those high values. And and it's important to keep that in mind when we come in and say hi, I'm an ADHD coach Hamid. Hi, I'm an executive coach. It comes with a lot of responsibility and not to be taken lightly.

Brooke Schnittman  05:45

Yeah, so you're saying that basically, like you can't just have integrity by saying one day, you're a coach and start coaching people? No

Cathy Rashidian  05:55

one, you know, Brooke, I could have done that. Right. I could have been like, hey, you know, there's this cool gig I saw, you know, what inspired me to go down the path of coaching was, and I don't think I've ever shared it with anybody else. And Jessica McCabe's video on how to ADHD, she was interviewing, there's this app, old, old old episode, she was interviewing a coach in Canada. And he was the way he explained his journey. It was like, holy cow, it's the male version of me. Same background, he had a marketing background. And I'm like, Oh, this is a thing, but it's a thing. But um, let me go down the rabbit hole and do it properly. So yes, my it call it perfectionism is if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it the right way and wide and like in depth, and I want to know all that things. So going down the rabbit hole. For me, it was important that I do it with the right tools. And I also went down the path of should I become a psychologist, a counselor, what does that look like? You know, this is people's brains. This is Mental Health. As much as we say, We're life coaches within the realm of ADHD coaching, you're dealing with mental health, you are dealing with neurodiversity. That is, you could be sitting in front of someone who has bipolar, ADHD and autism. All three Oh, that was completely complex. Right? Yeah. And it's so complex. And to say I, you took a course on Udemy, no offense to Udemy. Or you took a three month program, and now you're a certified coach. I question that, because the depths of continued learning that, like I know, you were one of your strengths is love of learning and constantly learning. Right? Like the latest. Do you have this version now? That the very well, no,

Brooke Schnittman  07:49

I only has ADHD one.

Cathy Rashidian  07:52

There's always like, a new thing coming out a new research coming out that I'm always like, I gotta see this. I gotta see what happened here. What's the latest? What's the greatest? So it takes responsibility. And it's not to become this echo chamber of oh, so and so was talking about RSD today, let me create some content on RSD. Correct.

Brooke Schnittman  08:10

That's why, you know, it's so funny. Speaking of content, right. So I guess since my Instagram following has grown over the past three years, we had the account for six years now. But the past three years it took off. People will say I'm an influencer and I hate that term. Yes. For me, at least. Because that's not what I pride myself on. I pride myself on giving value and impacting people doesn't mean that influencers don't do that, right. But I see myself as more than an influencer, I see myself as a coach that has transformed the lives. So I don't want people coming to me and coaching with Brooke just because they saw great posts on Instagram, I want them to come to coaching with Brooke because of the experience and the value we provide to them over the term of their coaching. So it's interesting that you went there like RSD. Okay, here's a great post. Well, hey, guess what chat GPT can whip that out in two seconds to?

Cathy Rashidian  09:09

Oh, yes, yes. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, back to the, than what makes a good coach, a good coach, I think first is having that responsibility of yourself of knowing your boundaries, knowing when to say no, I say more nose in my discovery calls than I say yes, is because I hear oh, this one, it's more therapeutic lens, and I don't have the professional training to take you on as a client. And when you go through your therapy and do your trauma therapy work, then come back and we can do coaching. My parameters. My qualifying qualifiers to work on with a client are super rigid and specific, because then when you bring them together, magic happens. They do a few sessions with me and off to the races they go. So The idea of true coaching for me is being a thought partner, a thought facilitator, they come to us whole complete, all resources are in there, we're holding that space for them to unlock it. And to think that some of these coaches that say, oh, my gosh, I was watching this documentary that happened in Canada. The coach said, work with me for a few sessions, and you won't have to take your depression medication mind blown.

Brooke Schnittman  10:35

Black does not equal way. Like, let's not oversimplify things. Yeah,

Cathy Rashidian  10:41

I mean, that's the extreme of it, right. And that's the extreme of it. And I see it time and time again, these young impressionable coaches that come thinking great, I have something to sell, I'm good at helping people, I'm good at giving advice. So I guess there's an industry called coaching, let me go inside it. But then when you go inside it, you have to do your due diligence, you have to get your extensive training. And it's just you're doing a disservice, you're causing more damage than good. And also, it's very short lived. If you're in this for the long haul, as a business owner, do it properly. If you wanted the short lived, then you get, you know, people coming after you going, you know, bad reviews this and that. And that's another way to do it. You'll make good money first, but then it's very short lived.

Brooke Schnittman  11:36

I just want to kind of show the other piece of getting your training for ADHD coaching. Because Kathy, I know you went through ad guy you went through AIPAC, you have very extensive training. You're mentoring advocate students, you know, you're in the premier premier coaches. Right, you are a premier coach.

Cathy Rashidian  11:56

Thank you. And I wouldn't say that to myself. But okay, you can say you

Brooke Schnittman  12:00

are you've coached me personally, I've seen you coach clients that have come in. I mean, I know what you do. So I believe in you. Thank you. And I will say that there, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with doing the three month program. As long as that's not your be all end all. Like there's more to that three month program continue to grow, like you said, continue to be a lifelong learner, don't just put a label on yourself, because you did that. It's funny, and I'm calling someone out. I'm not going to use their name. But I got a newsletter from a predominant ADHD figure, who has the description, a CC in training, but like, how can you use those letters? If you don't have them? Like what in

Cathy Rashidian  12:55

the hell does that even mean? What does that mean? ACC and its associated coach certified in like you Why would you even say that that doesn't make so to me, that's when it gets colorful marketing and it becomes Sensi marketing. And I do not appreciate that. If you are coaching training, say your coaching training, and also indicate is somebody supervising your work is somebody mentoring or work. One of the things that I really I am an ICF, International Coach Federation, champion, if you will, I do appreciate what they do because they hold high standards and coaching. They have documents on standards, ethics, the things you have to abide by. And I hold myself to that because we're not regulated. But here's an organization that says these are the rules of the game. Can you play if you play, here's your credentialing letters. And so in every level that you go through, when they you get that credentialing that means you kind of went through hell and back to get them. That means you had hundreds and hundreds of hours of training, continuous learning supervision, all of that good stuff. You went through a school that was accredited by ICF. ICF. Doesn't take on any school just like that they they're bigger organizations. They put them through the wringer.

Brooke Schnittman  14:18

Yeah, my three C activation program for coaches that is ICF approved. I didn't get approved overnight. That's why they needed a whole curriculum. They needed lots of documentation. I got lots of back and forth communication. They were very ethical. Again, it took months to get certified. That's

Cathy Rashidian  14:36

it and I'm actually putting my program through that and see there's a difference. There's coach training that gives you the foundational those schools. And then there's programs like Brooks has, or Brooke has or I'm submitting mine to ICF where we become the continuing education arms that continue to produce programs, but at least we have a governing body that we learn like to go after and say, Hi, this is what we do. And just even as a content, or program creator, I like I appreciate if somebody goes, I went through your program with a fine tooth comb, here's what you need to change. Here's what you need to do differently. To me that feels good delivering that program. Yeah, right. And I'm sure that's the same for you, Brooke, because you went through hell and back to get it through ICF. You deliver it with confidence, and your participants go, Yeah, this this makes sense.

Brooke Schnittman  15:28

This is exactly. I mean, you see the reviews, right? Like, they they're like, you know, there's a lot of coaching programs out there. How do you stand behind one that makes sense, and that you could stand behind? ethically? Yeah.

Cathy Rashidian  15:42

Yeah. You know, when our spidey senses kind of come up of is this the right, Coach? Is this the right program? And I beg of the listeners here is please, please trust your spidey senses. If something is coming up, you got to investigate. Don't fall into the manipulation and and all you can get a mortgage second mortgage to do my program and all of that there is no, if it doesn't make sense now. It should, it shouldn't. And you need to really do your due diligence. Yeah,

Brooke Schnittman  16:15

yeah, absolutely. And with ADHD, we can have that spidey sense really well. And also we can trust really hard to so do your homework, speak to people that you value their opinion, see education background, you know, ask for reviews. There's nothing wrong with going and having them give you a couple of people who have gone through the program and like look them up, find out what their experience was, what why they came, learn from them to do your homework as as much as it's hard to do that. It's funny that we're having this conversation, Kathy, because I just interviewed Jason Pfeiffer and his episode will probably drop before this episode comes out. And we talked about like, we can't oversimplify everything. Just because you're an ADHD coach, or coach doesn't mean that you're amazing. Or just because you're an ADHD coach doesn't mean that you're bad, or you're trying to take people's money just because you're an ADHD coach doesn't mean that you won't transform someone's life. Right? Like, there's so many things to think about. And it's easier to oversimplify good, bad black, white, you know, the program, do this, and you'll no longer need to take your depression medication. That's terrible.

17:34

So I know. So,

Brooke Schnittman  17:36

okay. Yeah. So now, with all of this being said, when they're already working with a coach, how do they know to continue not to continue? If this is continuing to be the right fit? If the coach continues to show up for them, all of those things? How do they know that this continues to be a good fit for the client? Oh,

Cathy Rashidian  18:03

it's such a tricky question. Because so let me give you the scenario. That would be the ideal scenario. If somebody comes in this is there's this thing that I do before I say yes to a client I'm kind of looking for, are they in a state of dysfunction in their life? Or scenario? Or are they in a place of function, but there's hiccups, there's fine tuning that needs to be done. They've done some amazing things. And it's just like, there's a glitch in the in the matrix, and then they're in the optimal stage. So these three stages for me when they come and I hear this function, like I cannot get out of bed, it's been two weeks. My medications are not like there's a lot of like heavy stuff. This right there is therapy. Yeah, through and through. Because when you're in that much dysfunction, that you can't keep a job, you can't keep a roof over your head know, you're in chaos. Yes. And something needs to be bigger resources need to be at play. So then when they come to me, and they're like, Look, I just got my promotion. Kids are in school doing great. I sit on the board of whatever. This new promotion, however, I want to make sure I'm doing my best with it. And I don't want to repeat past behaviors. Here are some things that I've done in the past that have you know, been to my detriment. Here are the things that I've done well, and we talk about that. So for me, that's a good match to be like, great. Here we have a scenario where I can become your thinking partner we can work through what does your the next six months look like for you in this new role? For example, each coaching session for me is taking them towards that goal, the high level goal, and in each session, the way we work through is okay. Let's say delegation is an issue for them. We unpack delegation, they come back they're like, Wow, this happened. This happened. Oh, my team notices a difference in me. They start to see micro progress. not massive things, all of a sudden, they're delegating everything and they figured it out. But in each session a little bit on packs a little bit on packs. So what true coaching does is we hold that space so that they get through one little evidence of love you are about us, you're doing it yourself. And as a coach, I'm co piloting with them to be like, oh, there's a pothole, do you want to go around it? Do you want to jump into it? Or do you just want to completely avoid and take them take another exit? So it's that critical thinking, the more they tap into their critical thinking, the more they're able to then see I can do this. I remember how badass I was, this is why I got to here. And then you know, they regain that, that sense of self. But what happens with ADHD coaching? The shame, the guilt, the noise of is it me, is it my ADHD, I can't figure this out, all of that gets subsided. And it's through those little bits that they're like, I figured myself out, finally. But it's to do it on your own. You sit in constant rumination and catastrophize ation, and you know, Halliwell talks about this, right? The default note mode network network goes in full speed, and you're sitting there doing it on your own, and my belief wholehearted, and I want to tattoo this somewhere on my body to be like, don't do ADHD alone. I've always said that. If you have a neurodivergent brain, you need to have a thinking partner, but at the right time at the right place, so that you can keep progressing. And then coming back again, if you need to. Barbara Luthor of one of our mentors, she's amazing. She says, we always talk ourselves out of a job. So essentially ethical coaches that do their coaching that best we will coach till they don't need us and they come back again. And it's not even about a need, I shouldn't say that. It's they come and go as needed to think things out loud, and then go back out again. That was a long winded answer, but I needed to unpack.

Brooke Schnittman  22:00

No, it's so true. Like, whenever I do a discovery call, I look for the things that you had mentioned. But I also share with clients or potential clients that this is not meant for life. This is meant to help you uncover all of your greatness, you know, help you uncover your strengths, your weaknesses, your paths, like how to get out of your own way. Yes, you might need coaching down the road, should circumstances change in your life, or you feel you need a little boost. But this is not like tutoring if you bring it back to childhood where you're deficient in math. So I'm just need tutoring. For however long this is coaching to help you be your best version of yourself. So you can show up differently. Like you said, yeah, so yeah, yeah, this is not meant for life. And some people love it, and will do it for longer periods of time, just because they want that thinking partner. And I know for you and I like sometimes we check in with each other because we both I mean, I think highly of you, and thanks. And I want someone to like really help me in my verbal processing. Discover what it is that I truly want. And could I do that with the tools on my own? Yes, because we've coached hundreds of people, but at the same time, it's, it's nice, because sometimes you could do it faster with someone else.

Cathy Rashidian  23:26

Yeah. And you know, the difference I see in a highly trained, experienced coach versus one that you know, Hi, I'm a coach, let's go. The difference in coaching style is the new coaches jump into the box, they are too quick to give advice. They come in with their assumptions. Were the the more seasoned coach that has gone some training that has had conversations with their supervisor that has listened to their calls. They know they're where they're beginning and in the conversation and can truly hold a container for them to do their own critical thinking. Yes, those that haven't had enough training, don't know how to do that, that it's a skill that you got to do it in practice with with long term classes or training to just continue to build

Brooke Schnittman  24:15

it. It's not consulting, no consulting if you want to. Absolutely. If you're consulting, you should call yourself a consultants. I remember when I was going through so I did my ADHD coaching. And then I did my life coaching. So I got my ADHD training at JSD coaching and then I did full on life coaching through another program cask coaching. And I remember with ADHD coaching, when I was training there, Jody said who's the head of that, you know, you have to keep like don't come to the conclusion for them. I know who you know what the answer is right? But you have to let them come to the answer. And then when I went to the life coaching program, I remember Bert, Melissa, who is in charge of that said, it's not like, Okay, you check in on this good checkbox. Okay, check in the next thing, check the box. It's an open conversation where you go deep, as you mentioned. And I know also, I'm going to put a caveat here. You and I, Kathy, even though we are coaches, with an ADHD lens, we sometimes brainstorm with the client, right? We sometimes help them uncover things that work from our own experience and from our practice, but we don't throw them that immediately.

Cathy Rashidian  25:34

Yeah, and it's knowing that balance of and I use this term last time, we spoke with Coach salting, when to bring in coach salting where you're doing a little bit of a telling and a mentoring and advice, but at the right time at the right place, versus in every session, and all the time I had this one client, she's like, Okay, today is gonna be a rough one. I'm like, Okay, what role do you want me to play in this conversation today? Do you want me to be a mentor, a coach or consultant, she goes, be a consultant, I need to know some things. And we were talking about PMDD. So in PMDD, I'm not going to be sitting here going, Oh, what,

Brooke Schnittman  26:11

what do you think,

Cathy Rashidian  26:14

I'm gonna be like, here's some research, here's what I hear, here's my personal experience. And then she walked away with it. Because of that, then she walks away with a few knowings that she's like, Okay, I'm gonna go talk to my family doctor again. And now I'm going to track my cycles, great. So she still comes to her own conclusion. But I'm not still we're not attached to what we say, where I hear some of the coaches have do this, or it won't work. That also doesn't work with our community. By the way, hint, hint to any of you listening, don't be telling the ADHD community what to do, because that's not cool.

Brooke Schnittman  26:53

We can suggest different tools, and it may or may not work for them. And it may work for the person until it doesn't work. That's right. So that's also the power of coaching. It's like, just because this is working now, or this has worked for you in the past doesn't mean it will continue to work, and it might work again, but how do you deal with those in betweens as well? How do you regularly? That's how do you come from a metacognitive view to know when it's not working? And you now all of a sudden start shifting? Mm

Cathy Rashidian  27:22

hmm. And also, you know, it the whole, one solution doesn't fit all. I mean, it's it's common sense. But I still from time to time, I hear that in our community, too, from the coaches, the content creators, that, you know, here's this thing do and and it'll give you the solution. And to generalize, not every ADHD person loses their keys. I have never, you know, I've not ever you know, neither person is is late I am I was like, 10 minutes late on this, I'm messaging you were, you know, I'm here, you know, so, generalization that is out there. Sometimes it's, you know, not everybody has to take medication or take medication, or also, if you don't, don't poopoo it for those that are taking exactly right, which I've seen some of this. And for me, it goes back to responsibility. Like as, as someone who's in this field, check in on your I wish there was like a responsibility checklist that people went through of, if you're doing this and actually too, but let's make

Brooke Schnittman  28:27

it right now. What is the responsibility checklist? Kathy? Seriously, let's put our thinking hats together. You have 20 years of coaching experience all together, I have 20 years of coaching experience altogether? How do you feel in your mentor coaching in your coaching coaches and clients? And vice versa? You feel that coaches are responsible? Coaches?

Cathy Rashidian  28:51

Yeah, so one would be no your shit and and back it up with with sources. So just you know, and if it is, if you are your own life experience as a source then say that my own life experience, I think blah, right? But at least don't confuse the reader or the audience that this is word that you know, you need to be drinking coffee every morning. Like it's like, you know what I'm saying? So, no, no, you're you're what you're teaching the responsible for that. But also open it up for them to go and research. By the way, I found this, what else do you think could be underneath this? So that you're constantly getting the audience, your clients to think critically that they don't just take your word as the word because Brooke said because Kathy said, there should this balance of oh, let me go search it a little bit more. Maybe there's different information they'll find. So there's that one, the other would be the whole expertise thing. You know, and I love how you brought up the whole influencer thing. I don't call myself an expert. I am As the coach that's constantly in training, who works with a lot of people. But I'm also learning all the time. There's things that probably lying learning episodes that I take back. I'm like, Oh, I no longer want to say that anymore. There's this other new evidence. Yes. So So lifelong learning should be a thing. And do it ethically do it properly. I don't know what else there's there's probably so much more. Don't

Brooke Schnittman  30:26

just try to sell someone a program because you need them. I think don't become a coach, because you need to be a coach. Yeah, right. Become a coach, because you're passionate about it, because you want to discover all the greatness and other people and yourself become a coach. Because not because and first of all, it's not a highly paid industry. No, it is not out there. Like average coach makes around 60,000. If not, okay.

31:01

Coaches, a

Brooke Schnittman  31:02

lot of coaches Exactly. So become a coach, because you know, the ins and outs, and maybe you had a friend who did it, and you see yourself in them, and you see the impact that they've made on other people. And you want to discover that for other people as well. Yeah, so like, so the becoming and also in the doing, do your research, do the lifelong learning, but also like, make sure that you, as a coach, are doing things from a place of want, doing things from a place of helping people doing things from a place of integrity and not a place of need, just because you need that client. And

Cathy Rashidian  31:45

you know, on that note, and it's interesting, we were talking about toxic resiliency over on on LinkedIn at last week. And know when when it's a need, then step away, if you're not in it anymore. for the right reasons. It's okay. Nobody's going to be like, Oh, look at you walking away from this business. I get it, you spend a lot of money probably getting the training, doing your thing. And if it doesn't work, the part that people don't understand is war, maybe they do is not only are you a coach, you're a business owner. And if the business ownership part is isn't working for you, yes, I'm making your your coaching stuff icky. Because there is I believe it just that energy translates you're doing more damage than good to yourself, to your family, to the people that you work with it just know when it's okay to throw in the towel and be like, You know what, I tried this. But coaching skill is a transferable skill, then you can go back to a nine to five job with us wisdom that you have, and believe me, you'll do it better.

Brooke Schnittman  32:52

Yes. And you can be a leader with your coaching tool belt, in your relationship, in your partnership, in how you show up for yourself on a day to day basis. I completely agree. Yeah, I noticed that so many business owners don't know how to be a business owner, because they've never been taught it. So they're trying, they're spinning their wheels, and then it's burning themselves out as a coach. And that's what they claim to be a coach a contractor. Right? You know, there's plenty of books out there that talks about the difference between a contractor and a business owner. That is literally why I created the business coach collective, because if you are a coach, whether you're a solopreneur, or you're growing a neurodivergent coaching company, like you need to understand integrity, that tools, when you're burning yourself out when you know you're not energized, what is energizing you and focus on the things that are energizing you and focus on the processes and learn all those tools. So if you want to grow, you can authentically and have integrity.

Cathy Rashidian  34:04

And Brooke, I have so much respect for you for doing this program. Now, if you did it, if you did it like four years ago, I would have been like Brooke, what are you doing? Like you're just you're just you know, still hatching. But it's I've watched you go through the growth. And I've watched you you know, we've talked about how running a business and all of that stuff. So for you to do it now at this stage in your own career, kudos to you because you're coming in with your toolkit full and was a lot of experience right for me when I started doing even mentor coaching where I mentor other coaches and we talked about coaching skills. If I had done that the first year of my graduation, I would have had no business doing that. You know, because I was still coaching clients who will mind to tell you how to coach by now today, you know, six years into this working With so many people, training coaches now at the Academy, I go in with confidence about my mentor coaching. Because I've done the work, I've seen the experience. And now I see how my my mentees are succeeding. And it's, you got to kind of sometimes, you know, in coaching, there's this thing, they're like, Oh, it's okay, as long as you're 10 steps ahead of your clients. I kind of don't buy that. Because sometimes you got to have had a little bit more experience a little bit more skin in the game. Not that we tell our clients what to do. But having that backstory for ourselves, even. It helps us we there's a deeper understanding, I don't know, if I'm explaining this

Brooke Schnittman  35:39

there is. And I don't think there's a problem with someone coaching straight out of coaching school, but, or going through coaching school, but tell the client that your prices need to agree with your experience, right? Like you should not be charging astronomical prices for your coaching session with someone when you're fresh out of school or in school. Like that's not, you don't have that experience. And even Dr. Halliwell talks about that, like, I interviewed him, I know you interviewed him on your podcast as well. What makes a good coach? Well, someone who can meet you where you are, who's connected and is experienced. So if you don't have the experience, of course, you need to get the experience by coaching people, but tell them, because there are people out there that can't afford coaching. And maybe those clients would benefit from the tools that you've learned as well. 100%

Cathy Rashidian  36:34

That's how I started my business. It was yeah, 50 bucks an hour. No, it started at 25 bucks an hour and then went up, right, but each of each of those, and you know, meet yourself where you're at, there's no shame in $50 an hour coach, because, yeah, I spent 1000s and 1000s of dollars on my training. But at the time, that was the number that rolled off my tongue with ethic with with integrity, with I was comfortable with it, I showed up at my best. Unfortunately, on the other side of our business, there's the other side of coach price, the value that you have. And if you start to feel icky about what you're doing, then it's you're not doing it out of integrity, you're doing it because your business coach said you needed to

Brooke Schnittman  37:22

raise your price or that's exactly what's

Cathy Rashidian  37:25

then then you're coaching out of nervousness, you there's so much stress on you like all of that nonsense stuff.

Brooke Schnittman  37:32

I think the general consensus is be true to yourself. You know, if you as a coach, also have those spidey senses, make sure you live in alignment and integrity. And if you're doing this for the money, like you're in the wrong business 100%, could you get a lot of money over time, possibly. But this is not the right business for that you're working with people's lives here. You're transforming people's lives. And that's not something to take lightly.

Cathy Rashidian  38:00

Yeah. And you know, the money part ICF does say it's in the billions. It's a billion something industry. But like this small percentage, the difference is in corporate world, in corporate coaching, if I'm coaching an executive, the rates are so different than the general public, right? Like, they won't look at you if it's not $300. And up, like literally, because that incorporated, those are the numbers because also the company is paying for those coaches, there's money that's coming in, there's these are the levels and it's a different style of coaching. So but if if I have a person that just Hi, I'm ADHD and I just got diagnosed, I'm not going to be like, it's 300 bucks an hour, it just who's paying, they're paying out of their own pocket. And also it does not covered by benefits. So they so that that number is skewed, because the top of that chart, if you will, it's a lot of executive coaching, a lot of corporate coaching, a lot of seminars that are 1000s of 1000s of dollars that are influencing that, but the average industry 65k for a coach, that's, that's what most people are looking at. Yeah,

Brooke Schnittman  39:15

and remember that doesn't include insurance and all the other things that you get from a government job. That's why you have to really love what you're doing.

Cathy Rashidian  39:28

percent and also take out the one thing we were talking about responsibilities is take the responsibility of knowing when the client is no longer if right fit for you. One One time I was working with this young lady and we were we did a few sessions together. It was great. And her eating disorder came back into the picture. And I had not trained in that. No, I'd like oh my god. I was like we need to stop now. We need to pause this. She had to go back to her therapist, do the deeper work and come back in and sometimes I Surely with coaching, you will discover things that actually makes it even more sense to then go to your therapist and talk about it with your therapist. Because you know how sometimes you go in, you're like, I don't know what we're talking about. But in the coaching conversation, like there's a lot of the female focus, people pleasing, if that keeps coming up, keeps coming up. Great. Now this now you need to go talk to your therapist, because it's really like affecting there's deep rooted stuff. So having that responsibility of knowing when we got to cut the cord for a little bit or joint partnership with the coach of therapists in you, and then moving forward. I think that's important.

Brooke Schnittman  40:37

A lot of people who come for a discovery call will ask me, How can I see growth? How can I see progress? And one thing that is so in front of us, right with ADHD is our working memory. We don't know, unless we're writing things down, or it's in front of our faces. We're making progress. Or if you have a goal on you know, getting this job and you get the job, right, then there's progress, right? That's a big goal. But the week to week micro changes that you're talking about, or what I call a 1%. Right, action? How right? How do you see that and what recently, I noticed to have an ADHD client see their growth is for them to see the lessons learned and their wins, but also, on a scale from one to 10. When they first start, where are you at in these areas, right? And evaluate that each week? them evaluate it so they can see okay, yeah, last week, I was a one this week. I'm a three, maybe next week, I'm a two, but the week after I'm a four. Right. So like it's moving in the right direction. And I think that in true coaching, as you mentioned, Kathy, like, sometimes it's just awareness that we discover, sometimes it's avoid, like being more proactive. And I think it's really important for an ADHD client listening to write down or partner with your coach and writing down your wins and where you're at each week. So you can see that growth from beginning to end.

Cathy Rashidian  42:09

100% Yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. Kathy,

Brooke Schnittman  42:13

what other things would you like to share with the neurodivergent ADHD community who are either looking for a coach? Or are coaches themselves? Mm

Cathy Rashidian  42:24

hmm. I think if you're looking for a coach, just even the search of finding a coach is is I acknowledge that it's an exhausting task. Okay. So let's say if you've moved past that, please, please, please interview at least three people, three coaches, just so you kind of get an idea, a sense. And I know, we get so excited. We're like, we got me connected this so great. Yeah, it's a great read. I encourage my discovery calls, I'm like, please go interview somebody else to I don't want to be the only one that that sets the criteria for you. Because what if the next person says something just a little different, and it clicks a little different? And so please do interview at least three people. Bring them in the criteria. Again, if you're sitting in this function, it's not about getting a coach for the love of God, you know, I see what you see on on social media, the tech talks and all that, oh, let me go work with a coach. Have that heart to heart with yourself? Am I sitting in complete dysfunction that I can't even get out of bed, it's been two weeks, all of that stuff. It's therapy conversation. If you are sitting in that stream of functioning, but it needs a bit of tweaking, I've hit a tipping point. Because for me that was it. There was like there was a tipping point, then bring on a coach bring on a thinking partner, but know you've got the tools, they're just going to have to work with you. The rule of three please get people somebody to kind of like body double with somebody to go here's what I'm thinking, check their training, the more extensive the training, the better. Please check that they're not guaranteeing, like guarantee that you're going to manage your ADHD guarantee that your ad is just gonna go away. I see the ads lately, too. Are your ADHD What the eff is that? Like cure left handedness? No, I don't think so.

Brooke Schnittman  44:17

Oh my gosh, I have so much more to say about that. But for another

Cathy Rashidian  44:22

so so make sure like what they're what they're saying it should be a resounding oh my god, this is exactly it. Like the clients that say yes to me. It's light bulbs go off in that 30 minutes that we discuss. And if it doesn't, it doesn't move on to the next coach. You don't owe them anything. It's just the conversation. It's okay to say no to people. You know, I know we'd like to be nice and all of that stuff. And for the coaches that are getting into the industry. I know that you're coming from a place of I want to help I want to support this looks so good. This aligns with who I am. Have a conversation with a Coach, actually, to talk it out loud, not with a loved one with with a friend or whatever actually hire a coach to say I'm in the middle of a career transition, so that they can be your thinking partner to decide on your next step. So that you when you do make the decision, it's like head heart gut aligned, that you know exactly what you're walking into. Yes. So that's the biggest one for me is if you're in that cusp of should I become a coach of anything. Get a coach or a coach,

Brooke Schnittman  45:31

so you can talk it through. I love that. I love that so much. Yeah. Thanks, Kathy. Thank you for being on successful with ADHD. And for those who are interested in learning more about your coaching, where can they find you?

Cathy Rashidian  45:49

They can find me on ReadySet choose.com. Ready, set truths is all about conscious choices. people.com. I do workshops. I've got the quantum thinkers, group coaching and a whole bunch of other stuff. So anytime you go to my website, you'll see the latest things that I'm up to.

Brooke Schnittman  46:09

Amazing, and I'll put that in the show notes as well. Thanks again. And I'm sure you'll be back very soon to continue on our integrity conversation.

Cathy Rashidian  46:20

Thank you.

Brooke Schnittman  46:23

Thanks for listening to this episode of successful with ADHD. I hope it helps you on your journey. And if you need any additional support for you or a loved one with ADHD, feel free to reach out to us at coaching with brooke.com and all social media platforms at coaching with Brooke and remember, it's Brooke with any Thanks again for listening. See you next time.