Are We Afraid to Have A Dream?

This week, Shelley chats once again with Dr. Ricky Jones, Professor of Pan-African Studies at the University of Louisville. Dr. Jones highlights W.E.B. Du Bois's views on broad educational access for African Americans and critiques the negative impact of integration on Black education. 

Shelley and Dr. Jones explore the historical context of Black education and media, the loss of community control, and the challenges within predominantly white institutions.

The discussion also touched upon the "Yankelovich report" and "strategic concealment," the "black tax" and dreaming beyond employment, and the persistent challenges of racism in America. 

Shelley and Dr Jones highlight the importance of economic responsibility and education within the Black community, discussing challenges in business and community development, and debating the feasibility of achieving systemic change versus individual successes.

Follow us and continue the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:03

Hello, world, and welcome to Shelley's Plum Lab. Truthful talk on tough topics hosted by Dr. Shelley Stewart. Shelley started broadcasting in 1949, and he has been on a journey to discover the truth for humanity ever since. And at 90 years of age, Shelley still sits down before the microphone as he pursues answers to tough topics, challenging us to change the experience of being human and our outlook on humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, I am honored to present the newest member of the Radio Hall of Fame and the oldest podcaster in the world. Get ready, here comes gentlemen.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10

The Academy of Common Sense. What a time it is in my life. Just being 90 years of age is a great time. Every day is a great day, and I tell you, I could have happiness, a day of joy. And I look forward each week to talking to you around the world. Today, we're starting on a series. Last week and the week before, and the week before that, we headed toward education. And more than one time, people have talked to me and said, Shelley, you cannot talk enough about education. I said, Well, look, look, there's something about that. I'm not an educator. By no means am I an educator. I just went to school. Yeah, I went to school. I graduated from Rosedale High School. And yeah, I did that. And I went from this place to the other place, one school to the other, Cambridge School of Radio and Television Broadcasting for a minute, U.S. military. But I never, not ever, was able to go to college. So therefore, I've gone through life with a common sense approach. I've been into schools and other things. I've read books after books. As a matter of fact, some of the podcasts mark I talked about at the age of 13, I had read the New Testament three times. Wow. Two twice forward and once backwards. I also told you that read over 1400, 1500 books. Wow. I was getting books, history books, and things like that. And anything that had negro on it, I wanted to read it. That was available. So no, I don't have that education that people talk about. So I decided that I would search somewhere. And lo and behold, lo and behold, I thought about it. I said, what am I looking so hard for? There's a man in my life. As a matter of fact, he's been talking with him. I've been talking with him. I've been with him for many years now. And he is an educator. Why can't I talk to this guy? Uh he's gone, he's gone to elementary school, Mark, he's gone to high school, gone to college, he's been to U.S. uh Naval Academy, he's going to Mohaus, you know, and he's going to other universities. He's a PhD, studied these things in history. Why am I stretching all over? Hell I got a guy sitting right here. Why can't I go to him?

SPEAKER_01: 3:37

And he didn't even know you. He did all that. I knew that.

SPEAKER_03: 3:42

I don't know whether he was stuck. I really didn't. I did not know that he would take his time out and sit with the old man and talk with me. Man, uh, I'm 90 years old. I'll be 91. Matter of fact, next month. And he don't mind me telling it. I'm gonna tell it anyway. Uh, he's about 56 years of age. Am I right?

unknown: 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:06

No, no, Pop, you're a little bit off. Uh 58 now. 58. I'm losing count myself.

SPEAKER_03: 4:14

Two years, okay. Oh, I got 50 years old, and a guy 91 years old next month. So here's an old man talking to a young man. Yeah, a man who did not have the so-called education in the schools, but I have been awarded degrees of common sense from different universities with directly uh human human human resources or whatever they offer me, paper here, paper there.

SPEAKER_01: 4:43

I think I think we said that last week, didn't we? That education can happen anywhere, right? I don't know what I said or not. That's why I have this program today.

SPEAKER_03: 4:52

I don't know, but I think I can tell you, uh you you know, some of the things I do say in my life, you don't go to uh the water to catch rabbits. Rabbits, you don't go into the water because rabbits not over in the water, and you don't go into the you know sand to catch fish either. So you go to where it works for you and it works for me. So therefore, today we're gonna start a series. One, two, three, four, whatever it is. I'd like to welcome him back. Yeah, he's my son. Dr. Ricky Jones. Ricky, how are you, son?

SPEAKER_00: 5:34

I'm good, Pop. How are you doing today, man? It's it's always good to hang out with you.

SPEAKER_03: 5:39

Well, fine, fine, fine. Uh I I I you know, uh, I guess you look at me sometimes as man, you have more wisdom than I've ever had. I think this he talks to me all the time about it. I talk to him about how well he's done as uh as an educator. Uh not bragging, Ricky, just in case the people who don't know have not heard of you, uh, you were on before. Would you tell them what you're doing now and how long you've been an educator?

SPEAKER_00: 6:07

Oh school starts next week. Currently, I am uh professor of pan-African Studies at the University of Louisville and the Baldwin King Scholar in Residence at the Christina Lee Brown Environment Institute. Um, I'm the past chair of the Pan African Studies Department at Louisville. I was chair for like half my career, and I stepped away from that position about three years ago. And you're right, since we're talking about education, Atlanta kid graduated from Northside High School, went to Naval Academy Prep in Newport, Rhode Island, graduated from there, did my first couple of years of college at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, then transferred to Morehouse College, got my bachelor's degree in political science, and then a PhD in political science from the University of Kentucky and came here to the University of Louisville. So um I'm a lifelong college professor and writer. So, you know, those are the things um that I do. So you you got all the common sense, and I got a little bit of the book sense, I guess. And that's about it.

SPEAKER_03: 7:10

I go back to uh son, going back to people that I studied about, and I'm going to from time to time here during our podcast. I go back to books that I've read, and here's one that W.E.B. DeVoe said this This the American black man knows his fight for the is to the finish the early he dies who wins, then there can be no compromise. This is the last great battle of the West. Education W E B Dubose. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 7:49

Yes, because it look, it makes sense to me. Now you hear a lot of people who do not value education as much, and and I have concentrated on Du Bois a lot recently because this year in 2025, I had a convergence with Du Bois in early 2025. I was 57. In 1925, Du Bois was 27. So a hundred years ago, Du Bois becomes the first African American to get a PhD from Harvard University. I was the second African American to get a PhD in political science from the University of Kentucky. Been really, really big on Du Bois. And so Du Bois is right. This this idea of not just educational access, but broad educational access. Even when Booker T. Washington was talking about purely industrial education, or what today we would call attendance at trade schools, and you hear those arguments cropping up a lot. Du Bois said, nah, that's a bad approach. Du Bois said, yes, African Americans need to be skilled in the trades, but we also need to be skilled in the higher arts, the liberal arts, the humanities. We need African American lawyers, doctors, professors, people like that as well, political figures. So he saw education as the way through. Now the question is, though, as we talk about Du Bois, even with that education, is that the way through for us here in America? Because remember, we'll probably talk about it as we go along, Pop. You and I have all kinds of conversations because we talk almost daily. After all those years of fighting, and Du Bois is born in 1868. When Du Bois is right around your age, he leaves America. You know, by 1961, he leaves America, moves to Ghana, and says the Negroes in America cannot win. So now the question is: can Negroes in America win now, all these years after Du Bois' death? He dies the day before the march on Washington in 1963. And so, but Du Bois is a great, great starting point because we see a lot of efforts now to restrict access of black children to education, especially higher education, and restrict what is being taught in American schools when you see where the country is going. And both of those things are very, very dangerous.

SPEAKER_03: 10:13

In our discussions from time to time, I've spoken with educators, certainly before you, friends of mine who have who are educators, some most of them are dead now, but they're saying the same thing that you sing now. And I'm talking about uh over 50 years ago, I'm beginning, I'm broadcasting, and I'm saying on the air, I'm playing music certainly, but there was a difference between what I was doing, Ricky, records and entertainment. I can make people laugh, but at the same time, I want to make them listen to the facts. And from time to time I would throw facts out there to the audience about what happened before them, so how they get to where they were at that time. What you're saying now, and I'm talking with you in 2025, and let me in your lifetime, you can't answer this, but I'm gonna tell you before I get to the question. I came along, certainly, and this is 1940. Let me talk about 1940, that's when I really started. Uh, talking about reading and listening and talking about things, but I did not know enough, there was no one around me to talk about the history. I didn't learn about things like that until I was like uh eight, nine, ten years old. That that that was at W.E.B. Du Bois, and I didn't hear anything about that. I was taught uh in the first grade uh in uh at Rosedale School Elementary School. I was taught that George Washington never told the lie. Well, I'm still laughing about it. Yeah, that's what that's the first thing I was taught in the first grade. The president of the United States, George Washington never told a lie. And they said, Well, how'd that happen? Well, he cut down the cherry tree and he told us that he he did it. He didn't tell anyone he told up into so that was that was the thing that they put out there for me. So I'm like, oh my god, the president of the United States never told a lie, and that was what they tried to put into all students during the era. That that it was that those people that uh Columbus discovered America, it was about uh, but nothing about before uh 1940. You understand? They didn't want to talk about that in schools, so therefore I had to go beyond the classroom to get the information, and on the radio, I tried to share that and did it for over 70 years. What I've learned in the school books, not in the school, not in school, but in books that never made it school. I went beyond the classroom, those books I went beyond. So I'm saying today, Ricky Jones, Dr. Ricky Jones, where are we now? Where are we now as African Americans or blacks in this country when it comes to education?

SPEAKER_00: 13:22

I think we're farther behind in a lot of ways than we have been in the past. And I'm I'm trying to think through this in a way that I can say it succinctly and tie in with what you just said, because what you said was was really important, more important than I think even you know, and and some others. When you talk about like your radio career, your radio career and anybody who actually talks to you or listened to the shows that that that that you did and and you you rebroadcast some of those on the plumb line, you know, with people like Hosea Williams and the like, you were really tricking people. And here's what I mean by that. You were baiting them in with the music because you know, people want to listen to some music, they want to be happy, they want to boogie oogie a little bit, but once they space with the music, with the entertainment part, you started to inject educational parts into it, right? So you were meeting them where they were, so you were tricking them. You weren't saying, Hey, this is the the Shelly Stewart education hour, right? It was this whole Shelly the Playboy caricature, entertaining them, but then educating them. You were slipping it in. How many black radio personalities? First of all, radio has almost been eviscerated. You know, you just basically got AI where they're just playing music now and nobody is commenting. But how many black radio personalities are doing that now? How many black television personalities are doing that? They they for the most part do not exist who are engaging in that type of work, right? But also during the time when you were coming up, it was really before integration took hold. And before integration took hold, one big part of education is narration, telling stories in an attempt to socialize people so that they think, believe, and behave in a particular way. So when you told a story that George Washington never told a lie, that's a narrative. It is a lie in and of itself, but it is also designed to deify, to give a certain level of heroism to people like George Washington while cutting out whole swaths of the story about the man, even to black children. So you'll tell a black child, this man never told a lie. He's the type of person that you want to emulate. He was the first president of the United States. He is, you know, he was a part of the Revolutionary War, he freed the country from British rule. He is a hero. This is who you should aspire to be, while never telling them also that he was a vicious, racist, and slave owner.

SPEAKER_03: 16:11

You said uh Ricky Jones that well, we uh we make progress, but we're far behind in education.

SPEAKER_00: 16:20

No, no, no. This is this is this is what I'm saying. This idea of progress in many respects is a lie. Because one thing that you had during segregated education, educational eras was okay, maybe black kids didn't have the best books, but they certainly had teachers who cared about them and were not penalizing them because of their race. They were pushing them in ways that white teachers simply were not, they were paying attention to them in ways that white teachers simply were not and would not. They were loving on them and developing them in ways, developing their their bodies, their minds, their spirits in ways that teachers who didn't look like them would not. People want to complain about Malcolm X becoming a hustler eventually. Why? Largely because when Malcolm X is a is an elementary schooler, he tells his white teacher out in Omar he wants to be a lawyer. And her response to him is Negroes can't be lawyers, Malcolm. You know, that that's a pipe dream. And so right there, killed his dreams, right? Killed his dreams. So he chose an alternate path. Now, why do I say we're farther behind now? Here's the mistake of integration. Black people, not all, but but some many made all these demands and begged for so long to share white-dominated spaces, including schools. But they did not have the foresight to demand that they shared power. And in not sharing power, they lost complete control over curricula, they lost complete control over school system structuring in their neighborhoods, they lost complete control over those schools, and in effect, they lost complete control over the intellectual academic development of their children.

SPEAKER_03: 18:05

Let me stop.

SPEAKER_00: 18:06

Now we're in recovery mode.

SPEAKER_03: 18:08

Uh when you said they, they lost control. Yeah. At one time, we did have some a reasonable amount of control in our communities. Uh yeah, uh, there were people who taught their children, although they didn't teach it in schools, but the parents were telling us you're doing this, you do that, and they were the the preachers in those communities. The children were learning about themselves and respect of each other in the community. They have control. Uh, but what happened is in since 1960, it's 1965. What happened here? All of the things that we were doing in the community, what happened? We stopped doing these things together in as a community, as family. What happened?

SPEAKER_00: 19:00

They thought the white man's ice was colder. No disrespect to our brother Mark.

SPEAKER_03: 19:05

Explain that to me.

SPEAKER_00: 19:06

Well, this and look, this is a pain, painful conversation to have. It's a difficult conversation to have because we can't well. I'm saying it's it's difficult because we all have some white brothers and sisters that we know, that we love, that we interact with. All of us do individually, but collectively, we have to have some serious conversations about what were the effects of integration on black communities and not just black communities physically, but black minds. See, and I'm hoping that I inherited your genes of longevity, pop, because like you said, September 24th, you'll be 91 years old. I just turned 58. So you ain't showing no signs of slowing down. So it hasn't been proven that you ain't immortal. You might live forever. And if you live forever, doggone it, I might live forever too. So I'm happy about that. But that ain't most black people. Most black people, especially black men. Die relatively. Our lifespans on average are shorter than the lifespans of white people. I think that's largely because of the societal stress that we endure. But people who were alive during the time pre-integration time when you were trying to trick a man with entertainment, but give education, a lot of those people are dead. They're gone. All right. And a lot of them didn't really want to share the pain of the lives that they went through in the fight for integration with their children to the degree that they should have. So their children have had no idea to a serious degree what was going on. They were getting busted to these white schools, taught by white teachers. Over time, even when we had and have some black teachers, they're not really in touch with blackness. They're not in touch with that black history that you're talking about. And they can't teach what they don't know. So here's where we are now to keep it short. Here's the reality that we're dealing with now, okay? As a college professor at a predominantly white school, who and I have no intention of ending my career at a predominantly white school. I gotta get back to an HBCU. Here's why, because that environment has tainted black children so badly and tainted many of the black professionals too, mind you. They're black professors who don't give a damn about what's going on with the collective health of black people, they only care about their individual positions, they don't care anything about collective power and progress. Okay, that's real, and that's not just at the University of Louisville, we see it all over the place. We have black professionals now in education and politics and business across the board. They only care about individual positions, they don't give a damn about collective progress of black people, they don't care about that, but it's created a situation now, and they're training their children in a particular way. So I had a story a couple of years ago. I teach black studies, had a kid come to me, say, she said, Dr. Jones, I'm so disappointed because she was in my class. So she talked to another young lady and said, You need to take some Pan-African studies classes about black people, like they're great. You need to come into my class. And this black kid said to her, Why would I do that? That's a waste of time. A black kid saying that taking classes about black people was a waste of time. Meanwhile, she was enrolled in an Asian studies class. Now you understand the dysfunction in that?

SPEAKER_03: 22:40

I I I I certainly understand. But I mean this is where we are. Why this is why we're on uh uh the Academy of Common Sense, because I'm trying to get this outside of my body, my mind, and you're there. I'm trying to get out here to more people and share and say, here it is, what it is, looking in the mirror and say, here's what I did. As a matter of fact, back in the 90s, I was still broadcasting and uh had a marketing firm and did a lot of research, and there was a thing I spent a lot of money on a Yenker Lovich uh report. Not the money I spent, yeah, Mark or the Yankee Loves. And uh this was in the in the latter part of the 80s and 90s, the Yenker Lovic Report. And they were doing research about the America. I own the company, but people did not know the black men had access to this information. I paid the money for it for the Yankee Lovich Report. And at that time, they were saying at that time exactly what was gonna happen in the next five to teen years how the politicians, how they were planning, how they're gonna put certain black people in certain areas, and they must tell them without saying it in in that way, we must show the Negro exactly how to be not Negroish. Yeah. This is basically what they were saying, and I'm looking at the damn report, and I'm getting on the air, I'm owning the marketing forum, going out also at that time I owned the radio station as well. So uh you were saying about what black people on the radio at that time would do things. Most blacks on the radio, Ricky. Most blacks, although they were on the radio in the 50s, 40s, they were afraid to talk about what we're talking about today. They were afraid of the ownership who was owned by whites. Uh, so therefore, they would they would they would only go so far and not do things now. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 24:43

But they they they still are afraid, Pop. That's a sad thing. They they they are still afraid. You go to most of these spaces, you got black people who are still afraid. You keep on going, and then I'm gonna come back to something I think is a disturbing story about how you were afraid. And I don't want things to continue like that. We'll we'll talk about that. We'll go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 25:03

Yeah, that that's but they they weren't the popularity of their friends, but they were afraid to say, but talk about the history, talk about what's going on in their communities. They were afraid, uh, even some of the preachers, they were very popular, but they would not go in the community to talk with them. This is uh if they're coming to my church, I'll talk to them, but I will not go in the community. Now that you have them against it, but now not all, but that's what I'm talking about. Uh why I'm doing this today, and talking to you because you teach it and you walk the walk and talk the talk. So, yes, there was fear. There's fear then. I didn't know that was fear like it is now, and there were those who did not want to be black.

SPEAKER_00: 25:47

Well, here's here's what's scary. And let me talk about what you did. That some people say, and and I was just messing with you saying you were afraid. It could be argued that you were strategic, but you were necessarily strategic because of the environment that you were in. Okay, so for many years, you own a marketing firm that becomes one of the largest black, what not just black, but one of the largest marketing firms in the state of Alabama, possibly the country, right? People know that story of O2 ideas. Here's what they don't know they don't know that for years you kept it a secret that you were the owner of the firm, right?

SPEAKER_03: 26:21

The guy sitting here in front of me right now happened to be a witness to that because he worked for me doing and worked for a year with me and didn't know that I was black.

SPEAKER_00: 26:30

Well, you know, right owner, he knew I was black, he didn't know it was on the country, or somebody else uh owned it, but you made this strategic move obviously because you knew that the ever-presence of white supremacy would penalize you and your business endeavors because you were black, right? So that's that's a if if not fear, certainly a realization of what could happen with that level of black attack because of white viciousness, not just in business but around other areas as well, because of race. Now, what that does, it caps possibilities, right? It puts a it puts a very low ceiling on black possibilities. Now, what you were trying to do because you're conscious, right? You're conscious and you understand the struggles in the country that were happening then and are happening now because of race. You wanted to create a world where if if if me, if I, your son were to own something or work in a space, I wouldn't have to hide that I'm black for that endeavor to move forward, right? That's that's what you were thinking. But we did not and do not have a lion's share of black people right now who are thinking that way because they have been so polluted by their education and socialization, as Carter G. Woodson said, miseducated, as Malcolm X warned us, only a fool allows his enemy to educate his children. But we've done it, so we we've been foolish, and this is what we get, and so some ways we don't even think. So, your granddaughter, right? My daughter, Jordan, your granddaughter. I tell the former mayor of the city who who I consider a friend, he's obviously black, uh obviously white, because I live in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm from Atlanta, but I live in Louisville. Louisville, Kentucky is one of two of the 50 largest cities in the country who have never elected a black, Hispanic, or female mayor. Every mayor of this city since it was founded has been a white man. And so I tell the former mayor who's my friend, I said, I said, here's the difference in how you see the world and how I see the world, and how some of the natives here see the world who are black. You got black people here who are excited and brag about working for the mayor. I want to be in a space where my child, your grandchild, right, can be the mayor if she so desires.

SPEAKER_03: 29:13

That's what I mean that's a different that's a different approach to the world. Your parent, and that is what you're instilling in your child.

SPEAKER_00: 29:20

Right, that's a different approach to the world. Because I'm your son, she's my daughter, so we have a different approach to the world. But that's not an approach that the majority of black people have because it's been beaten out of them. They're too afraid to even dream at this point.

SPEAKER_03: 29:34

That is where we are, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, and why uh these episodes of Shelly's Plum Line, the Academy of Common Sense is being discussed. And I'm thankful to uh Ricky for taking his time out from his beauties.

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

Oh, come on, Pop, you know you ain't thankful for me to take no time out. You come and say, hey boy, we're gonna do this podcast. Well, don't tell everybody.

SPEAKER_03: 30:00

Uh but you know, more than likely, ladies and gentlemen, we're leading to a thing because what is going on in this country and dismantling of what we've been talking about all along, education. And uh what's missing in this country is education, actually, the proper education of the African American children. I'm not saying that uh education is not out there with people, but for African-American children, there's something missing somewhere. And the other yeah, you're right, Mark, you're right. Uh you're absolutely right. There's something missing. Oh, education black folk can do this, black folk. That's not true. So we are at this point on the online, the Academy of Common Sense. We'll be back next week, as a matter of fact. And the week after, and the week after that, they'll know three weeks, four weeks consecutively, we're gonna be talking about education. I think that really, Ricky, Mark, people talk about integration, and everything is over, segregation over. That's the worst lie, biggest lie I've ever heard in my life. There was never such a thing as integration. Not ever. Not in New York City, not in Georgia, Los Angeles, California, Chicago, no way, no matter where in this country, not ever was there anything true integration. Education was throwing out the books here. Now they say if we can cut off the white folks' education, we damn sure can cut up cutting black colleges. We can cut off the punch of the black different race, we can we can cut it off here, if we cut it up there, whoever controls what goes in the community controls the community. That's the way it is. If you will listen to anything now, if you were look at radio when I came along, if you want to find out any information about black folks, you had to turn your AM dial all the way to the right hand side of the radio. Black folk can talk on that middle or the left hand side of the dial. If you want radio information from black folk, you go to the right hand side of the dial. And it was very rare there because most black people who were talking on the radio was afraid to talk on the radio. So that's why, even today, I'm thankful that I didn't have any fear. Uh, I was not afraid, white folks, not black folks. As a matter of fact, I worked to bring white folks and black folk together. That was the intent, not to segregate, not to tell them folk. I I never I don't hate white folks.

SPEAKER_02: 32:45

It's like Ricky said that that music did a lot to bring the people together first. That's the key too, I did.

SPEAKER_03: 32:50

And that's why Ricky and I we spending the next few weeks.

unknown: 32:57

Ricky.

SPEAKER_02: 32:58

I remember one thing though. Yeah, we went from uh having a president to tell no lies to having what now? Well, all the way from A to Z. Well, it's it's we're not there yet.

SPEAKER_03: 33:09

We got a lot of things to go, we got a lot of road to cover. Uh remember uh 1957, I was in Atlanta, Georgia, at the Royal Peacock. You don't know anything about that, Rick and Dutch, he wasn't born. But uh James and I were there. And uh James Brown, uh James Brown could not not really read. He was not really he could sing, but he couldn't read. Because a lot of things happen, but great entertainers. But he and I would talk all along. And he said, uh, Brother Stewart, Brother Stewart, Brother Shelley, he never called me Shelley. He came, Brother Shelley, Brother Stewart. I love can you can you come to work for me? I mean lots of money, and I'm gonna buy a radio station. But you come and uh Drake Brown, no, I won't work for you. I'd like to sign the check on the front rather than the back myself. So he says, uh, education is the key. That's right. Number 1957. In 1967, James Brown came to my door. And well, matter of fact, after midnight and rang my doorbell. Look, I got something I wrote. And it was uh uh don't be a dropout without an education, you might as well be dead. So that's where Ricky Jones, Shelley Stood, but today saying education is good. Ladies and gentlemen, Ricky, there's your side, there's my side, there's my side. And so go to know that's the truth. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll see that way.

SPEAKER_02: 35:43

It was produced by Stewart Productions at the Plumb Line Studios in Derrett, Alabama. If you are a fan of Shelly's Plumb Line and you like what we are doing here, please remember to subscribe on your podcast platform of choice. Give us a review and share this podcast with others. Follow us and continue the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. This is Mark Jamrose. We'll see you next week. Keep sharing the love, and we'll all grow stronger.

SPEAKER_04: 36:26

Don't be loads of my hand.