Shelley Shares Stories About the AG Gaston Motel

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:03

Hello, world, and welcome to Shelley's Pumba. Truthful Talk and Tough Topics, hosted by Dr. Shelley Stewart. Shelley started broadcasting in 1949, and he has been on a journey to discover the truth for humanity ever since. And at 91 years of age, Shelley still sits number for the microphone as he pursues answers to tough topics, challenging us to change the experience of being human and our public on humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, I am Humbert, the newest member of the Radio Hall of Fame and the oldest podcaster in the world. Get ready. Here comes Ellen.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yes, Ricky. Scared him off. Yeah, scared him off. He was afraid after last week after he made the comments about uh people uh who are positioning themselves as leaders. They weren't leaders. So he became afraid to come over here today and uh join with us. But uh don't start nothing, don't be nothing. But Mark, it's just a pleasure having you with us today, my friend. And I can tell you right now, we have actually touched on so many, so many issues in recent months, my friend. Nowhere in the country can define the matters that we talk about and openness we talk about them. You feel good about it, don't you? You're probably right. You feel good about yourself, don't you? Well, I feel good about you. I can't live up to Ricky, but I'll try my best. Oh, no worry about Ricky. No worry about living up to Ricky. We you know, we haven't had a conversation today here at the blunt line, and uh going back and I know that you constantly asking me, you did not know things, Ricky.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I wasn't born, but you were uh you old people like this uh A. G. Gaston. Uh I said, Ricky, come on, son. Yes, but you never mentioned it to anybody. And that's not what I'm about to think. I mean I first met Ricky and he wouldn't he wouldn't ask me that and tell him. I never told him the people who were uh friends of mine, uh you know, I think one clum line making Sam Cook. Yeah. Sam Cook, I said Sam Cook is Sherry's uh his godfather. Yeah. Uh the people who uh came up and And then you just said you knew Edwin Starr, too. Edwin Starr, Barry Gordy, we were not just knew them, we were associates, absolutely, we were friends. Uh and uh most of the people during that era uh before the 60s, I had met them in different parts of the country. I think one of the plumb lines, one of the episodes I told you about Arthur Pry Soph up in New York. Right. I told you about uh the times that B.B. King and I would be riding in the 50s, be riding in and he'd be in the car playing the guitar, you know, every day. Every day I have the blue, you know. But I never did uh say those things. Um George Gordy, Barry's brother, you know, Lou Wakefield, Barry's sister, so that's the Gordy family that I was very close with. So uh in other words, I was never one that wanted to be with the D shot. I was with people who were working hard. And these people were working hard in the 50s. I mean, these people were working, Barry was over at the plants at General Motors working. Uh Jackie Wilson, but remember Jackie Wilson? Jackie was also side of the box, but working at the plants there.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So everything that you finally saw as entertainers, uh, we had worked hard through the 50s, and there were a group before me who brought me through. Uh, and so therefore, um in the 50s, before the modern Luther King Jr., uh I'm the young guy from the South that had visited, I guess, most of your major cities, uh, as a radio personality. Never wanted to be a dis rocky, but I was that guy, and you heard Candace Barner talking about her research. Right. In every city, uh every state there was a black, which was a Negro at that time, Negro radio personalities who were speaking about freedom, speaking about equality. Yet the most of the people on the radio, they were afraid to talk except they wanted to be popular. But then there was yeah, that was it. They wanted to be got hair and all that stuff. But there was a in every state, there was somebody in that state on the radio that was actually talking with the people. I mean, getting down to the real nitty-gritties we called it. I mean, really going into the communities. And and I would go into this uh Pittsburgh and to Philadelphia, not just, but I would go into communities with a job to understand that who was there. So Chicago, uh Al Benson's, uh the you know, Detroit, the Gene Steinberg who we got out of Memphis over into Detroit. So we had b had a network of people. Now, let's go back to uh uh before Martin. Before Martin at the time, uh the little community where I was born, uh Birmingham, Alabama, it was hell, man. I promise you it was hell. Uh more bombings and uh uh more negroes being cut by white folk, uh shot by police officers, places being bummed and burned. Uh it was not very not good for to be of color in Birmingham, Alabama, or the state, as a matter of fact. But Birmingham was really horrible. But for whatever reason, I didn't say, I don't know what Magave the uh, you know, I just see things open open on the air that no other Negro would say. I was talking with the people, uh I was not doing exactly what the white ownership wanted. I was talking in the communities too. I was talking about we need to learn to vote. And this was in the 50s, man, and what you'd learn to vote, you get your ass up to go to the boat, and you know the white folks didn't want black folks voted, you had to pay poll taxes and stuff, and yeah. I would say things like that, but the I didn't pay any attention, but the ratings uh come out, and my ratings when I was on there was higher than anybody in Alabama. Well I had a white audience, didn't realize, but they were filling out the uh arbitrons and stuff and whatever the rip and Shelley, the Playboy, yeah, had become this thing back in the 50s.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Well that was a place in Birmingham uh in the 50s open. Uh it was uh uh something new. It was the uh A.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

G. Gaston Motel. We had lots of little places where blacks could stay, you understand, but no motel.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

They had uh the hotel flea bags that white folks owned. But A. G decided in the 50s to open up the A. G. Gaston Motel, which had a dining room. Where did he build that? Where was it? Fifth Avenue North, downtown Marine. Uh anyone knows they they called it the Civil Rights District, but uh that's where the hotel was. It still is, by the way. But A. G. built that place. Uh, and it was different. The Negroes, uh, the entertainers that come here finally had a place to go and stay at a decent place. And uh these blacks do teachers had a place to go sit down and at the restaurant. Oh, we were together, you know, that place. People actually go dress, get dressed to go to the A.G. Gaston motel, to the restaurant. Not to to the room, but well, the restaurant was the the place. Uh that's a book to have you handed to you that a young lady wrote and uh published, I think, in about 2014, uh the A.G. Gas and Motel. Yeah. Many people don't. I did not know that the book was written. Uh and it uh was called and I turned and said, Shelley, you've been at it a long time. Uh what do you mean? It's it's in a motel in a book called A. G. Gas Book. Yeah. And what's the young lady's name? Uh Marie A. Sutton? Marie Sutton, yeah. Marie Sutton wrote the book, and uh, and uh so I called her. And lo and behold, she said, Oh yeah, I spoke with you before. And I said, You did. And she said, Oh yeah, I spoke with you. I spoke with you more than one time. Wow. And I spoke with other people who know told me more things about you than you told me about you.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Happens that way, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Uh it did in this case, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

And um that to say that in uh in the 50s uh in Birmingham, uh I think it's the beginning anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

They talked about me. I think that the beginning of it down there so well. But it's there, yeah, I think it is. Something they were introducing uh to you was talking about who I was at that time. What does it say, Mark?

SPEAKER_04 11:50

It says um, you know, we're picking it up kind of here in the middle here, but it says kind of describing the district and the area, and it says at night the streets within the district were near nearly busting with folks dressed in their Sundays best. People parked packed into the carver and famous theaters, as well as countless restaurants, pool rooms, and dance halls, including the Little Savoy Cafe, which was built in the style of New York's Harlem Savoy ballroom. The upstairs kitchen produced an endless supply of mouthwatering chicken and steak dinners, and downstairs in the hall you could catch performances by Duke Ellington, Cab Callaway, Lionel Hampton, and many others. I used to love the way they dressed, like in a movie, like Harlem Knights, said Washington, who as a young man would try to go inside the area night spots. We would go in, peep in the door, and they would put us out. During that time, the black middle class was growing at a rapid pace. The community roster grew long with names that would later be in the history books, like attorney Arthur Shores, famed DJ Shelley the Playboy Stewart, and business mogul A. G. Gaston. Gaston was a short, statured, chocolate brown man who had a pension for dapper dress and a stern business sense. He always wore three-piece suits with a little watch chain, wrote civil rights icon and former United States Ambassador to the United Nations Andrew Young in his book, An Easy Burden. He was the very image of dignity and wealth, Young wrote, except for his brown skin. Gaston, who had only a tenth grade education, made millions catering to the needs of blacks, a clientele that was often ignored by white business owners. He owned funeral homes, a bank, an insurance company, and a radio station. He hosted spelling bees for colored children and founded a girls and boys club. He was known for servicing African Americans from cradle to grave and advertised his business as strictly 100% Negro.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

That's uh that's the truth about A. G, who was really a coal miner. AG worked A. G worked at co at the coal mine.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Uh, it was uh incredible at that period. When I became Shelly uh Playboy, uh I was scared the hell out of A. G. A. G had uh he did not have the other the monies that he ended up with in life. He had at the film home. When I first met A. G. just at the film home. His wife Minnie gueston, A. G. is not educated, but his wife Minnie was. And he had started the Booker T. Washington Business College, teaching young black Negroes about business. Wow. Uh secretaries and the likes. Uh Booker T. Washington Business College. That was A. G. Uh A. G knew nothing about A.G. sixth grade. But uh I would say things on the air, and he would see the following that I would have. I would pull my car up, and people said, That's Shelley. He never seen anything like that. Ever called A. G. A. G was very popular because he had money at that time. But Shelley was this guy that people were flocking to, and uh things that I I would say on the radio. So finally one day, AG said to me, Shelly, you go get everybody killed. I said, what do I do? And you just say anything on that radio. These white folk will kill you. Uh I said, no, Doc, man, just telling the truth. You tell the truth, but you saying it on the radio. I said, why not say it on the radio? He said, Well, you got more good than anybody. Well, you think anybody in New York that uh theme. I said, Well, uh, he said, you just keep on, but you you can scare me to death. Uh I said, I do. Yeah, you tell the truth now. You telling the truth about the money. I would say he had things that are part of all you earnest yours to keep. And I would I would say, A. G said, you save some of your money. Stop spending your money with the wall of white folks, save something, you know, things like that. Yeah. I was not man, white folks just save some of your damn money. Uh common sense approach. Uh and uh I did that. Uh and A. G grew uh very, very famous uh after the motel and the film home expanded, uh the federal savings and loan association. I impressed him so much he decided I went down to the together by a radio station. He said, No, let me buy it. So he tricked me. He bought it off Monday, so I went and got another one. So anyway, uh we we knew each other very well about that. Uh but most important, A. G had uh created something. He was he was very afraid the white people, as most black men had the right to be in that. Uh he was very but the white men, because he opened that rust that A.G. Gas and Motel and that one of the restaurants, white men, businessmen lacked food down there. They loved AG's food. Uh and so from one by one they start coming in there and sitting down in the restaurant, eating with A. G. The white men come in and eat with the white fly, some of my clients, and white men come on. These guys come by, eat, we eat dinner, eat lunch rather. So I had uh I had created a follower, uh young lady who uh many people know, uh, and she died of course a few years back. She ended up being one of the most popular women in Alabama. And she wanted to join radio because her daddy and our friends, she had graduated from the University of Alabama, and uh I had my foot uh uh money in an advertising agency. Uh and uh his daughter graduated and she said she wanted to be a copywriter. And so I took down at that time, uh back kind of head in the back, I said, I wanted to hire this girl. So I hired we hired her, her name is Patty, Patty Wheeler, her daddy, Dr. Wheeler, was my friend. Uh we hired the Patty, Patty married, but her husband uh came became very close to me. Every so often we would visit each other, he says, I'm I meet you at the motel. Okay, man. So I meet we go at that motel, A. G. S. Motel. White boy and uh Shelly. We meet. So one day Patty, Shelly, why is it you carry my husband to lunch? You won't ever carry me to lunch. This is this was uh in the 50s now, you know. And uh Patty, we can carry you carry you to lunch. You will, so I'm gonna tell my husband good. So so I can tell the year was 1959. Uh I had this 59 convertible gray Chevrolet. Uh yeah, beautiful black top, red interior. Beautiful Chevrolet. I let the top down. It's Patty, I pick you up for lunch. So I go by the radio station where I had to work in the in the advertising. And I picked Patty, come on, Patty, let's go to lunch. And I didn't pay any attention really, because Patty and he and she, we always ate together, but not in the restaurant. We ate personal thing together, uh quietly, but she says, You're gonna carry me to lunch. So I come on, Patty, get your butt in the car, let's go. So she gets in this car, beautiful car Chevrolet Convertible, Birmingham, Alabama. We cut across Red Mountain. You're familiar with that area down 20th Street. And the top was down, and Patty had her shape on, and I'm Shelley, the Playboy. People knew my car, they knew me. And I cut down, I came down by University Hospital, the police were stopping, and they saw Patty, this white woman, sitting in this car with her hair blowing shades on, her arm across the back seat, the seat rather, and they done blowing the whistle. And uh I went on down past uh University Hospital. Next block, the police were practically every corner at that time. Got down there, police on the little wheeler, he pulls out the front, waved a hand up, pulled over him. Now I get on third, uh, third avenue, and sure enough, there's another police agent. So Fourth Avenue and 20th Street, the guy came out and blocked the street. Blocked me. And uh pulled me over. And uh uh, you know, read read that in that place. That an open door policy.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

All right. Um so Jones had an open door policy to his restaurant. He got people coming from north, east, and southwest whites, he said. I told my folks, I said, serve them. Even some of the officers Jones had known when working at the courts would come in to eat. These were officers who had arrested some of the black customers in the past. He said, Local people who would come in and would see half the time order something and go out and take it out rather than stay, he said. Kelly Stewart, the local rock and roll DJ who had the devoted black and white listeners, and also hosted a popular wiki record hop at Don's Teentown and Bessemer, remembers those days. The Gaston was where human beings could be accommodated and eat, he said. Blacks and whites would stay and dine there and enjoy music there. All citizens. We would meet friends who were ha who happened to be white. Folks would say, We we'll meet you at the motel. Stewart said, Everyone knew when we said that, whether they would be black or white, and meant at the Gadstons. That was a notable thing. Stewart recalled the time when Patty, a young woman who worked at the radio station with him, inquired about his lunch plans at quote, the motel. She was a slim white woman with long brunette hair, Stuart recalled. He was friends with her father and husband. As a matter of fact, according to Stuart, he had helped her get a job at the station. After I would get off the air, I would say, I am going down to the motel to have lunch. Stuart said, In time, she said, Where are you going? I said, the Gaston Motel. Wanting to experience the Gaston for herself, Patty said, You wouldn't take me down there. You take you take my husband, but you won't take me. Stewart, who drove a 1959 gray Chevy and Pala convertible with a black top and a red interior, told her to hop in. The top was down, he said of the automobile. I drove down 20th Street. Patty was sitting in the front seat. She had her shades on and her hair was blowing in the wind. I had defied Bull Connor, and everyone knew who I was. I had gotten down by university hospital, Stuart recalled. Now during that period, the police would be stationed on the corner. I had gotten down by the viaduct and got on First Avenue, and the policeman saw me and started blowing his whistle. I paid no attention, Stuart said. Next light, second Avenue. The policeman was flagging and blowing his whistle. I got down to Fourth Avenue and 20th Street, and this policeman got out in front of the car, stopped, and had his hands up. What are you doing? Are you Shelley? he asked. Yes. Who is this lady? She said, I'm Patty. You can ask me. Shelley, what the you trying to start a riot? the officer asked. Where are y'all going? Patty said, We're going to the motel. That's when they called Eugene Bull Connor, Stuart recalled. I said, Follow me to the motel, I'm gonna have lunch. When I walked in and they saw me with Patty, the folks started to get up and leave. It would have been okay if I had been a white man. The staff served Stuart and his guest right quick, he said. Then they called Gaston and told him about Stuart's lunch guest. Later on, Gaston said, Shelley, what are you trying to do? Get me bombed out of here? It was common for blacks and whites to eat together at the Gaston, Stuart said. But when the combination was a black man and a white woman, it was scandalous. That's a fact.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Uh I did that. Uh yeah, I did. Uh Patty, who was a friend of mine up to her death, she and her husband, uh, she had a number of husbands, by the way. They were all my buddies. Uh and my relationship was with that uh with the with the white people, black people. Uh certainly it was the black people who uh stuck with me through the years. Many of them were afraid uh to uh many black men were afraid to stand on the corners with me at that time. Uh they would be with me and see the police car come by and they would run, they would walk away. Wow, because they did not want to be seen with me. Uh said the police were gonna kill me. So uh yes, uh I I can talk about these things. I've been through and I've served in the military, U.S. Air Force. My brother, older brother was killed in the 87th infantry from Port Riley, Kansas. So I'm very well aware of the things that I talk about, Mark. Uh I share them, not bragging, but for facts that we can overcome. We can do better. If Ricky said last week, if we knew better, we would do better. But many of us knew that, but we're afraid to do better. We're afraid to tell the truth. We're afraid to tell the bosses of these companies that they are racist. Yeah, well, but I can't tell them that uh they are unfair. Uh I may lose my position and out here mistreating all others. So Mark, what it's all about I've had some owners, major owners of major companies who are white who come to have come to me and made decisions to do better. They changed. Their companies have grown. Uh they've done better. They listened. They were not afraid. And I said, Why hadn't you done this before? They said, Well, the blacks I had in position told me everything was all right. I did a survey uh a few years back. A matter of fact, it was in uh in my company and they hired me to do a survey, uh and I recorded black major, major, major retailer. And uh I had to record, told them, I said, Look, tell me what you feel about where you work. And uh I said, Well, yes, Shelley, I'm gonna tell you. And uh I I took it and uh didn't put the names down to the owners. I said, You tell me that you tell me all you black black folks loved you. I said, Hey, listen to what these black folks are thinking about your dumb ass. You know, you walking around here talking about house, but you mistreating them, they know that. He, of course, he resigned from the family business because it was he that had everybody thinking that he was one of the best thinkers and last bread. So it was that that made the company change by telling the head the truth. Okay, so I what I really were saying last week and what you were saying and listening to, and I was certainly saying that we're people in high places that are afraid to change. They're afraid to tell the truth. So whether it be in politics or whether they're in corporate, whoever they are, tell the truth and bring about a better change for all of our people. So Mark, uh, we miss Ricky this week, too, but you know, uh, you know, we didn't didn't let him start nothing. He tried to start stuff, but we kept him at bay this week. So uh he's uh he's up, he's somewhere running around now making speeches again. Yeah, preparing to come back and jump on us next week. Good. Mark, what do you have to say now after you heard me? You've read the story on your about Gaston. You never knew that, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04 30:20

I did not know that. Uh, I was somewhat familiar with Gaston Hotel. I've heard about it, but uh didn't know the full the the big story behind it.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, that guy that heard Jones, AG expert at that time, he just couldn't do business. And a guy named Paul Jones, that's Paul, who's one of the great owners of lots of black art. Paul Jones was actually the uh so-called owner of A. G. Gaston at that time, West of Purdue. So many people did not know that. But Paul Jones is very popular man in the country.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

And and I think they've restored have they restored the hotel?

SPEAKER_01 31:00

It's uh They restored it. Much of the truth has been left out of it. Yeah, of course. Uh, you know, so that's why I'm uh I'm I'm very proud of what I want that the whole truth. AG was uh A.G. was just a damn smart businessman. Uh at the time uh he was afraid to do something, but he was actually taken aback by blacks who were educated who actually lied to him. Yeah. So that's your side.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

There's my side.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

And somewhere in the middle, there's the truth. Ladies and gentlemen, we love you.

SPEAKER_04 31:51

This episode of Shelley's Plumb Line was written, produced, and edited by Dr. Shelley Stewart, Mark Jamraz, and Dr. Ricky Jones. It was produced by Stewart Production at the Plumb Line Studios in Starrett, Alabama. If you are a fan of Shelly's Plumb Line and you like what we are doing here, please remember to subscribe on your podcast platform of choice. Give us a review, and share this podcast with others. Follow us and continue the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. This is Mark Jamrose. We'll see you next week. Keep sharing the love, and we'll all grow stronger.