Education Lifts All Ships (Rebroadcast)

Shelley's Plumbline is on a short summer break. In the meantime, Shelley asked that we rebroadcast some of our most popular episodes on the importance of education. 

Transcript

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Hello, world, and welcome to Shelley's Plum Lab. A talk on tough topics hosted by Dr. Shelley Stewart. Shelley started broadcasting in 1949, and he has been on a journey to discover the truth for humanity ever since. And at 90 years of age, Shelley still sits down before the microphone, and he pursues answers to tough topics, challenging us to change the experience of being human and our outlook on humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, I am honored to present the newest member of the Radio Hall of Fame and the oldest podcaster in the world. Get ready, and here comes Mellon. I was afraid to walk out of the window here. We got into the thing about education and competing went on with it. Oh my God. We'll pick up on that. But I just want to say, ladies and gentlemen, welcome again to the Plumb Line and the Academy of Common Sense. It's all about the show of America, if you will, the soul. So maybe Ricky and Mark will deal with the soul of the soul. Much of it comes about the family and friends. I probably carry on much of things from because I didn't have, and I needed that. And I'm enjoying some of the best times in my life. Matter of fact, doing what I'm doing now, talking with my son Ricky's uh never dreamed of it, never even looked for it. And but I recall when we first met, the first thing he said to me, uh first he looked at me and said, Yeah, you my father. And uh I don't want anything from you. That's the first thing he said. He said, Thank you for your genes. Yeah. So uh but look how much you've given each other. Oh no, we've been together a long time now. It's been fabulous. It's been fabulous. And when I said when I said to him, it wasn't like a a a nice thing that I said. I was basically like, Thank you for the genes. That's all I needed from you, right? But uh we've been blessed to move forth from that and us doing uh you know episodes of this show together. One, you know, it's a good response from people who are listening, like you and your father have great chemistry, but for me, it's just enjoyable to do this with my dad. You know, it's just just great for us to have conversations about anything under the sun and do it with with my my dad. No, no matter where we are, you know, I'll I'll have this. And so, you know, thank you for for doing it with me, old man. Well, you're welcome. I'm happy to have you home. But you know, uh speaking of that, uh uh someone Rick had never met. He never met uh his uh never met his grandfather or grandmother. Never met met his uh uncles, you understand? Right. But there was four, five of us, four of us really. And uh, but there was one that uh sometimes before he died, he could not read when he made it to the sixth grade, but he loved to write poetry and loved to do things like that. Of course, David, my little brother, different things. He did okay, but not very well. You still my brother. But uh Sam wrote up a number of things and didn't know how to put him into perspective. And uh as he behaved ill and uh when he got him out of California, we'd not not been together all through our lives. My brothers and I never slept under the same roof, not one night in our lives after mama died. Never did they never knew their mother. Uh Sam and David didn't. But Sam was talking to me one day and said, brother, in all the years you tried, you did everything you could to help me to raise me. I was a boy told me, told me told me to read. And uh I didn't think reading was that important. I'm out of Mississippi, you know the story. Uh he said, I didn't think it was important, but he became around in his 40s. And uh he began to want to read. I want to write something. And I was out of California and he wrote something, and uh that's one of his positive thoughts of Samuel Stewart. This is your uncle's writing. And he looked at me and he said, uh, I could. I didn't, I quit. Damn, I'm poor. I didn't, I quit. Damn, I'm poor. He didn't really say poor, he didn't poor. But he turned around and said, the next thing it's you. I said, What do you mean? He says, it's you, you're my brother. He said, You can say this. And I repeated, I can. I will. I did, goddamn, I'm rich. So that's from the Stewart family. That's his that's his uncle, and that's my that's my brother. And going through times that this family, uh, you know, people talk about giving lives. Uh his uncle, my brother, Hill Jerome Stewart was killed in the United States in Korea, to be honest with you, with the 87th Infantry out of Fort Rider, Kansas. But after he died, uh, I gone to the military and uh was got the automobile discharge. Came back, I couldn't drink a beer with white folks. Couldn't go to school, they couldn't do the thing. I was Shelley, the playboy by now. And uh I wanted to go drink a beer with a white guy at the VFW in Birmingham, Bah. Right, right. Back to the foreign wars. Yep. So maybe you could not do it. So another survivors got in a get on the air and start talking about that experience. Really? And a group of blacks and well negroes at that time, you know, and just they began listening, and they became coming to me and says, We've been in the military too. We can so we decided to go all together to the BFW club again. Uh oh. Here we go. It was funny. About this candidate Playboy in that group, there's about 20 of us. Yeah. And uh Commander Handy, a guy named George Cook, and whatever, we decided we competition, so someone the politician got a hold of it and said, don't let them come back anymore. Let's give them a club of themselves, let's set up a BFW for black folk. And uh so enough, out of Washington, DC, rather than to let us go into a BFW club in Birmingham, Alabama, this is not in the history book, but I've got history here today, first time. And what happened was uh the politician, the governor of Alabama, and the black says, well, cross-see problems, these soldiers, so let's give them a look, let's give them a BFW of their own. Not a VFW of their own. Right. So there was a they did, they gave us the Pickett Stewart, my brother's Hugh Jerome Stewart. There's a Pickett Stewart post 8037. Wow. And that's in Birmingham. Another in Montgomery, I know in Montevana, Alabama, ward tailor at Xander. So after uh, well, they gave it to us. Oh, it's a I spent the money and raised money, yeah, opened up a building. Right. And uh, we opened up our Pickett Stewart Post 8037, Veterans of Art Wars. Immediately after Martin Luther King Jr. and all those things, he tried to check the records in the United States. We have to not find no record of Pickett Stewart Post 8037. I have in my hand uh a copy of Jet Magazine, September 5th, 1963. And it says BFW of polishing segregation of post in Alabama. The veterans of foreign wars broke its policy of segregated districts when two Negro posts in Alabama were assigned to previously all white districts. Pinkie Stewart Post 8037 Burningham and the Wartel Alexander Post 8361 in Montevideo, Alabama, both previously contained, and the recently dropped districts 13 and 14 were signed to district 3. The switch climate negotiations with national officers and post leaders. The American Legion, on the other hand, maintains an all-Negro district. So even going to war impact, we were involved with this guy here, me, and uh this guy's uncle who died. So we went through those things in this country. So we have a right to talk about it. To talk about values that many homeless, we were homeless, board. We were homeless. The guy on the other side of the table, Ricky, uh, came and did not know he had a grandmother who put those values. And here we are today talking about education. That's right. We were talking about that, weren't we? Yeah, and the moral center of the country. Yes. Go ahead, Ricky. And paying a lot of money. Can you imagine what kind of education system we would have if we paid a teacher a million dollars? Right. Well, there's a million dollars. There's that, Mark, but you know, the three of us were talking away from the show, and we've had weeks of conversations about education, and really, I think what this series is culminating in is conversations about morality. Because what education ideally is supposed to do is create better thinking citizens who have a strong sense of history of the social fabric of the country and world to build better relationships between human beings. That's my idea of education. Not not just you um making more money. I'm not, and don't get me wrong. My father knows this, Mark. You may not. My father knows it. I'm not telling everybody to to run around here like Jesus in some dusty sandals and and and broke. I mean, I'm not I'm not interested in that necessarily. You know, we live in a capitalist society, we gotta make some money, we we gotta be responsible with it, but what good is it to be rich if you ain't doing nothing decent with it? Yourself and your family of others, you know. So so the question is I as I sit and I and I for years, man, for years, I've listened to my father, and I listened to my grandmother too, but but my father is much more um descriptive about those times and the struggles that they were going through, and much more plugged into trying to rectify them in a lot of ways. What I always come back to is asking myself, what motivated people to do the things that they were doing to my father, his brother, and other people who look like them? What motivated them to do these terrible things to them, you know, back then and now? And so the question is like, what are these people's moral center? If you want to be a Republican or Democrat, that that's fine. And I have some Republican friends, but but what is your moral center in supporting a person like Donald Trump? You know, what what must your moral center be? A person who's full of lies, you know, deceptions, racial attacks, authoritarianism, surrounded by people like Victor Orban and Vladimir Putin. I mean, what is your moral center? You know, what was the moral center around slavery? What was the moral center around Jim Crow? What's the moral center around to this day trying to deny people access just because of the color of their skin? That's a troubling question. And I don't know if Americans have really dealt with it, honestly. No, they uh I won't tell you, no, they've not dealt with it. Uh, and they're passing it on, unfortunately. Uh, not all, but so, well, too many of them are passing on and destroying their own children. They are destroying their future. Uh, because of the other way they're wicked and marked, much of it is self self-inflicted hatred. Self-inflicted hatred. No one hated that. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah, the side effect of a lack of education is fear, you know, that that you're driven by emotional decisions. Well, lack of education has a lot to do with it, but it has through the years of we've come this far doing the same thing. We have had boldness so long, uh, that uh my ice is cold, is it's cooler than the other folks' ice. Um, my everything is better than that. So I think by putting uh many of us under my black people, we fell for it. We call it on the street, we call it fell for the okie doke. And uh the okie doke really killed you. Matter of fact, we got so crazy. We hadn't heard that this jockey, a regular person named Okie dokie. His name was not that. They called him Okie dokie. So that's the other thing we okie dokie. Whatever you whatever we give you, okie dokie. Yeah, okidokie. Yeah, it's the okie dokie. That's the person here that's okidokie. So if uh whatever they say, uh you you take it, you just take it. And you know, and that it's about theater. You know, to to Mark, Mark, speaking on this, we talk about education. I think the different forms of education. Certainly, there's formal education, and then there's social experiential education. The thought, I think, around the integration movement and this question about access, and you know, this dirty, dirty word diversity, right? Was exposing people to people who were unlike them. Yeah. So it's it's it's very easy to have all these stereotypes about black people and white people if you ain't really exposed to black people or white people. Right, right. And the idea is to what was to expose people to one another. So it's easy to say, oh, all black people are dirty, stinky, dumb, you know, shiftless, irresponsible, and criminal-minded until you actually interact with a black person who's none of those things, then it's harder for you to just hate N-words, and you're like, no, wait a minute. I know Shelly Stewart, that's not the way he is. I know Ricky Jones, that's not the way he is. So if all black people aren't like that anymore in your mind, then there's a possibility that a larger percentage of black people aren't like that than you imagine. Same thing with white people. You know, we can be like all white people are evil, all white people are racist, all white people are oppressive, and then you meet decent white people, or education exposes you to white people like John Brown in history. And you can say, no, that ain't the way Mark Jamroz is. And that's why education is so important formally if it's decent, not miseducation, but formal, decent education and social education where we're exposed to one another, and it can change your moral compass. I think that you're right, and uh, I know you're right on that. Uh I'm going back to uh talk about talking about race and uh his uh young, well young lady, she's older. But his writing, being black is not inherently a problem unless you're in a world of white supremacy. You cannot have a conversation of a race that does not deal with what created the white supremacy. Right? What do you think? Oh, come on. I I I I said that now. I threw it out there. What are you gonna say about that one? That's true, and I've said something similar to that. America, America's original and second sins were both based on white supremacy. Its original sin was the eradication of Native Americans in this country for the most part, almost eradicated. Um people just don't seem to to put their arms around what white immigrants, let me say this slowly and clearly again, white immigrants who came to this country where American natives were, they do not understand how detrimental those white European immigrants were to the very existence of those people who are already in this country, and now these people are anti-immigrant. They're the descendants of immigrants, and now they want to deport immigrants out of a country that their ancestors stole through brutality and racial callousness. That was the original sin. The second sin was these same immigrants enslaving other human beings, transporting them across the globe for their financial benefit, for the benefit of those white immigrants, and feeding into their idea of racial superiority. America was built on white supremacy, it was built into its structure from the beginning. If you are not moral enough and historically honest enough to wrestle with that reality, then you can't understand America. White supremacy didn't start with Donald Trump, it's always been here. And so people who are enemies of racial equality are highly problematic. But I tell other white folks, that's why I tell the president here of the university and other universities. I'm like, it's one thing for conservative politicians to be anti-black, but it's another thing for you to be silent about it. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, in the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. You you can't deal with it, you can't be moral without wrestling with white supremacy. Well, you know, the only way you can deal with it is be truthful about it. And you can continue. It's high time we all begin talking with each other. What do you think about that? I think theoretically, theoretically, that's true. You know, ideally that's true. But what what white supremacy grants you is power. You don't have to do it, you don't have to do it, right? And Pop, you notice I'm doing a video series right now, a weekly video series, just short videos on being a black professor at a hostile white university, doing a week by week thing on what the experience is like in during the 2025-2026 school year. And there's all this fear in my department because I teach in a black studies department. I'm a political scientist, but I teach in a black studies department. And I was telling the dean who I like. You know, she was like, well, we got to do this to get the numbers up. I'm like, I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything else. All right, I'm gonna do what I've been doing because I don't feel like I need to do more work because we're being attacked from without. We're being attacked by your people. And being a white administrator at the University of Louisville gives you the power to not even listen to me. You don't even have to listen to anything that I say or anybody. Who's gonna challenge you, right? Two, here's what I know. If you all decide that you want to shut this department down, there's nothing that we can do to stop you from doing it. You're gonna come up with one more thing to do it. Conversely, if you decide you want to keep it open, ain't nothing nobody gonna do to make you shut it down. That's power, right? The question is though, do you have the moral compass to try to keep the only unit you have at the entire university that speaks to the black experience open? Do you think that merits any type of attention and sacrifice on your behalf, or are you just gonna say, y'all ain't making us enough money? If we what is it? If we look at all of the things we were talking about, it is the lack of conversation, the ability to talk with each other. I am a communicator, that is me. I'm uh a mass communicator. The owners of the radio stations that I work for often tell me, why are you why are you trying to do what you do? I said, I am a mass communicator, not a mass communicator. So uh the that was a problem. He says, Do you need to still be in this lane over here? You need to do this because you got enough black people. He didn't say black at that time, you know. You got enough negroes that you can help with. Well, it's a truth. In his office, you got enough negroes that you do now. Now white we got white folks like you, but why do you do what you're doing? I said, because I'm a human being, I'm a mass communicator. When I when I say air goes everywhere, there's no lines in that air. You understand? You see the effects of the wind, but you don't see the wind, do you? You you you lots of things that you put out there on the air, you don't know where it's going, it's going out there from the air. So therefore, you never have no control put it on air. So the name is let's keep you controlled off air. We don't want you on the air. That's now, that was then, and as long as they have the power, it will continue to be that way. There are blacks who own more radio stations in uh 1999 than they do in 2025. You didn't know that, did you? No. There were more black-owned radio stations in the United States of America in 1995 than they are in 2025. If you see things that uh that you see now, they're all data organizations. The only reason they there's an NAACP because black folk couldn't be with white folks. They're the National Association of Black people. It's uh black beauty shops. But we didn't the black beauty shops because you couldn't do it, playing beauty shops. The reason that was because you couldn't do that. So we didn't, and I said we the Negro did not do that. It was done by we don't want you over here, you go over there and stay over there. That is the way that that's that's bottom line. So once you get that, and the the fear of the fact is, once I began moving around this, Shelley has he can count to let our count. Uh he looked at you know, eight because they're illegal speech, you know, that's as liabilities he can provide to you. So I started talking about money. So I'm talking money. Well, we don't need to talk about money, Shelley. We'll give you you won't talk about money. Don't talk about those values. And I think what Ricky was saying here, Ricky, it's fear. Racism. Now fear from whites who've afraid of losing that position, and fear from many of us, black people who afraid to move up. I think I think you're right about that, popping. I think it runs even deeper. Like, you know, you you look back at uh folks who are asking you, well, why are you doing what you're doing? Because I think what they didn't understand was you actually believed in something. You had a moral compass. It wasn't just about you being on the radio and building a big as big an audience as possible just to have followers. It was about getting out a particular message and making the world a better place, right? That's a that's a that's a moral guide line there. James Baldwin asks some around this this theory, this, this um theme of fear, and well, really it's a theme of of moral centering that we're talking about. Is it that these people just afraid, many of them? Or is it something that runs even deeper? Is their moral compass really broken? We're getting close to the end. I want to read something that James Baldwin wrote as he got close to the end of his life, and he talked about race relations in a good percentage of white Americans. And Baldwin said this: he said, I'm terrified at the moral apathy, the death of the heart, which is happening in my country. These people have deluded themselves for so long that they really don't think I'm human. I base this on their conduct, not on what they say. And this means that they have become in themselves moral monsters. That's that's James Baldwin. Baldwin dies in 1987, and so when you talk about communicating with people, is it even possible to have productive conversations and develop decent humane strategies to move forward with people who are functioning like that? And what percentage of America is still functioning like that? That's the scary part for me. Very scary part. Um Ricky knows what we talk about, what you do for since 2002. Maddie C. Stewart Foundation, which is uh my mother, we formed a foundation which is education about literacy, improving the quality of life for people. People don't know this, many of us don't know. They've seen uh some of our tools, which we deal with education. The choice bus. Many people have seen it in this in their cities. We've been in Harlem, we've been in Philadelphia, West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, Georgia, Alabama. Millions of people visited the choice bus. We created another tool called Inside Out Documentary, which inmates are saying, don't come here. Don't come here. Go to school, get your education. I'm happy that Ricky Jones is part of me, part of that move about education. It's the key. We didn't say we don't say black people, we have education now. In that case, hopefully black people get on board with it. Not only get on board, but support it. Support your community in education. The parents must get on board too. Your first educators are at home. First educators for your children are at your house. Don't just take them out now, find older senior citizens now. They drop them off at the uh food fast food places, let them sit back. I'm going to work on my camera to the fast food place and sit down. There's a group of them sit down all day long. Why why are you telling people that I left you at the Kentucky Fried Chicken Pop? Well, don't even think that boy. You know, no, you were driving over there. No, I didn't do that. You know, we we we ate good to have uh a granddaughter and kids and we eat well, we all three of us we put a heavy smoke. No, we don't do that. But I'm saying that people leading the elderly people, their moms and dads out, not saying about them. Those who are just having children, leaving them out on their own themselves. So I just want all of them to come on get on board. One line is not on any side. Academy of common sense is about everybody. Certainly, I feel that who need more help right now in this country are black folk. Black people need more help. The sickest person, you go that sickest person sick. And I just believe in that. So you can't tell me uh we're going everybody hungry, but we go read the the we're gonna read the ritual first, and find the poor folks get what's left over. So here we are today. Um some final words to Ricky. You have final words for us today. Look, um, first of all, Mark, uh I always appreciate you working with us. You great producer, none better than you. So so much love to you. But to you, Pop, I want you to um always remember and always know because I don't think there's enough public uh displays of love between black men or black fathers and black sons. And so I want you to know how much I love you, how much I respect you and value you, and for the time that we have left on this earth, whether it be two days, two decades, or two more centuries, you know, we're gonna be together doing the best we can for each other and for everybody that we touch. So just know how much I love you, man. Thank you for having my drinking same goes with you, same road goes north, goes south. Uh same road, peace goes west. Mark Mark's been with us, been with me really uh since 1998. Yeah. And he's on this journey with us. Mark really appreciative of you as well. I love what we love you. Love you, man. There's my side. And somewhere in the middle, there's the truth. There's the truth. Love the quick. This episode of Shelly's Plumb Line was written, produced, and edited by Dr. Shelly Stewart and Mark Jamrod. It was produced by Stewart Production at the Plumline Studios in Derrick, Alabama. If you are a fan of Shelly's Plumb Line and you like what we are doing here, please remember to subscribe on your podcast platform employee. Give us a review and share this podcast with others. Follow us and continue the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. This is Mark Jam Right.