You Don't Have to Be a Father to Be a Father

You don't have to be a dad to be a father. Mentor a child. Set a good example. Teach our youth the right direction. Happy Father's Day.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello, world, and welcome to Shelley's PubLive. Truthful Talk on Tough Topics, hosted by Dr. Shelley Stewart. Shelley started broadcasting in 1949, and he has been on a journey to discover the truth for humanity ever since. And at 91 years of age, Shelley still sits down before the microphone as he pursues answers to tough topics, challenging us to change the experience of being human and our outlook on humanity. Ladies and gentlemen, I am honored to present the newest member of the Radio Hall of Fame and the oldest podcaster in the world. Get ready. Here comes Shelley.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

This week, Sans my Father Shelly, the Playboy Store, who's a little bit under the weather. So this is Dr. Ricky Jones rolling once again with my dear brother from the Midwest. From the Midwest from Motown.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Motown Mark, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Mark, good to see you, man. How you doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You too, man. I'm doing great. Great. It was good to see Shelly a couple days ago. Did go visit him. He's in good spirits and hope to be back soon.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That is outstanding. We have a special Father's Day edition here on the Plum Line. And you know, Mark, Father's Day, you and I both are fathers. And we both obviously had fathers, and I want us to discuss that over the next uh you know half hour or so. But Father's Day gets short shrift. Maybe we should. I don't know. But everybody is all in on Mother's Day. And people don't talk too much about Father's Day. You you agree?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Probably right. Uh you're right. But um I think the mothers deserve the mothers deserve plenty. I won't argue with that. But yeah, you can't you can't underestimate the role of a man, especially I think in a man's life, in a young man's life. So we can talk about that in a minute. But um, yeah. We did have some great news um back back in May. Uh yeah. Shell Shelly.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

You got to enjoy something that I didn't get to enjoy because I was in Chicago, couldn't make it down, but there was a big celebration down in down in Dixie, down in uh Birmingham. And we'll talk, you were in Chicago, why? Because you were being a good dad, right? I was being a good dad, yeah. My my daughter was up at a at a recruits camp at the University of Chicago, where she's headed off, and uh she'll be playing volleyball there, uh, as well as being a student. This is not just an athletics family, right? We're very, very big on academics, but I did miss a big celebration that you were at. So uh tell the listeners about what went on.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, that's right. Um back in May 15th, uh there was an event called the Big Meeting, and it was held at the Bethel Missionary Baptist Church in Pratt City, Alabama. Uh it was a beautiful ceremony there where it was it was actually kind of a bit of a revival, I think, where they had um some panel discussions on what to do, and you know what we can do to help our society, help each other. Um, they had some plays, and then they also had an award. And uh Shelley was one of the honorees. He received a legacy honore from the American Gospel Quartet Convention. Uh that was a war that award was given to him by George W. Stewart, which is no relation. But uh we sure well, uh I'm pretty sure because Shelley said he denied it. He denied any uh any relation anyway. But George uh obviously was a big big fan of Shelley's. He's uh a writer and promoter of the arts. He was MCing the event there, very funny guy and great speaker. And um he uh was so moved by the event and by seeing Shelly that he put together a little song um that he shared with us.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And uh, Mark, Mark, this this is not a little song. I mean, this this was a full-blown uh uh song, right? Uh uh about the old man, which I thought was really cool. And and and if you would, Mark, you you know, you're the technical guy among us, you know. If we could take a few minutes, just a few minutes, not listen to the whole thing. Uh song's about four four or five minutes long, but it it's got a nice little 70s feel, it at least to me. Great, great celebration of of pops, and um, you know, I think it's really, really important, and and I'm so happy for the old man to have people celebrate him, yeah. You know, because it's one thing to celebrate people after they're gone, and and I believe that we are aware of things on the other side, but it is good to be on this side and people celebrate break you a little bit. And I'm a little bit jealous because I actually like this song. I mean, it's not corny, so let's let's let's roll.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

It's kind of got that big that's a big wall of sound feel, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Yeah, yeah, it does. It does. I mean, this this George Stewart guy, no relations, so they say it is a pretty good song. So here it is Shelley the Playboy by brother George Stewart.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Let's hear it. This is your dads are talking about, man. What do you think of that song?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

One, I like the song, right? But but this this whole Papa Doo thing, man. I mean, that's why I say it's gotta be a 70s type of gig, right? But even if I didn't like the song, I like the thought of it. Yeah, right. And and I like the fact that um, you know, it's a feel-good song. And and I like the fact that it made my father happy. Yeah. You know, I really in talking to him, he was like, you know this guy, son, he he did this song. You know, big, big surprise, you know, you gotta listen to it. I'm like, okay, Pop, I'm listening. And then I talked to him and be like, son, you listen to the song? He was very excited about the song. Yeah, Papa. I have I have listened to the song.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

He's been telling me we gotta put that on the podcast. We gotta put it on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Gotta put it on the podcast. Well, and he might want it to be like somehow permanently integrated into the podcast. I don't know. But uh the biggest thing for me about this as we're celebrating Father's Day here on Shelly's Plumb Line, Sans uh Shelly the Playboy Storage with Ricky Jones and Mark Jamron. The world is so incredibly unhappy right now, man. You know, people are so incredibly stressed, people are traumatized. I mean, people are living with so much angst in their lives at work, just across the board. It's really nice to have something that makes you smile. And that song. So we gotta say thank you to Brother George Stewart for doing something that was so giving, you know, so sweet, magnanimous, um, and and just thoughtful, that that made a 91-year-old brother who has really, really put in work in the world, you know, smile. Yeah you know, that was a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, it it and it you're you're kind of right. It does seem like the um the the automatic reflux is is for people to be angry or to look at something and say, what's wrong with it? You know. And there's a post and there's Oh, well, look at the way he buttoned his shirt. Look at the way he tied his shoes. You know, it's like everything is wrong. What's wrong with this, what's wrong with that, and you know, who who knows where that has come from, but it but it unfortunately I think it has it has tended toward a um you know a feeling of that there's not no there's no cooperation really among our society right now. Um where does it come from? Hard to say if it if it if it leads back to fathers and families, but um let's talk about that for a minute. You know, this is your father they're talking about in the song. The things that struck me, struck me as a man that that worked with him was you know, him being a legend, him being in inducted into the radio hall of fame, but but you know, here we have uh a man that was not raised by a father, um, took it upon himself to to take care of himself and raise himself the best he could, um, and then to stand up and and really when you think about it, at least when I think about it, about our society now compared to the way it was in the 60s, there's that anger again. You know, there was a lot of anger in the 60s that boiled up through we didn't have social media, but through our social channels, you know, it was newspapers, it was radios, there were underground meetings, there were things that that people were agitating over. Um seemed seemed more to to purpose than it is now. Now it just seems like it's anger without a cause, but um I think the thing that struck me in that song was they talked about how brave he was and how he stood up. You want to you want to talk about that for a minute? How he went on the air.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah. And I would I would I would modify the the approach of anger without a cause. I think there's a cause for certainly some of the anger that that's out here. There's a cause for the angst. You look at American leadership and where it's it's uh pushing the country towards. And people just don't see a light at the end of the tunnel right now. As my Morehouse brother Eddie Glaude, who's a professor at Princeton, said, make no mistake, it's midnight right now, you know. But people can't figure out so we we can't figure out our way forward right now. And I and you're absolutely right, Mark. There was no social media back in the 60s. You know, there were fewer platforms then, but there is less focus now. And and we need to talk about that at some at some point as we look at the destruction of media. But my approach to my dad, and I I certainly would encourage all the listeners to to our little show that could, to go back and listen to an episode entitled Finding My Father. You know, we did a uh a two-part episode. Uh was it last year, Mark? I think it was last year. Yeah, but uh, probably. Yeah, so we don't have to you know recap the entire story of of me and my father, but suffice it to say, I didn't grow up with him. Um and our stories are stories of a lot of pain, quite frankly. Both of us. Um a lot of struggle, a lot of doubt, a lot of uh being prematurely forced into adulthood. Both of us kind of had our childhoods robbed from us. And you know, when you start my father's story, it for me the the the crux of the story really doesn't start at birth. It starts when he's like five years old and witnesses his father killed killing his mother. And then in effect, in effect, at a really young age, you know, he he's homeless. So the question is, you know, out on the streets of of Birmingham by himself trying to make his way way forward, you know, endures abandonment, endures sexual assault, endures so many things. I don't care what people say, and I don't care what he says, that has an effect on people. It it had an effect on him. And I think it set up a situation as great as my father has been and is, he also has parts of him that have been challenging, some might say terribly flawed. And how could they not be? You know, how could those parts not exist? So then the question was, how can he, how has he been able to cope with those parts? Same here. Um so not having him in my life early on had an effect on me, and it is one thing that prompted me to try to be the father to my daughter that I did not have when I was her age. And that's no disrespect to my dad in that. You know, he himself, he's very apologetic. He but we we can't live in the past. He's like, I wish I was there, I wish this, I wish that, and we can't time travel. I didn't want to have to time travel, man. I didn't want to have to have the the the desire to time travel with with my daughter. And um you know, so that's that's been really, really important to me, largely because of my upbringing and and lacking that that father figure. So, you know, my feeling, I and I can't speak about my siblings because I'm the only one of my siblings that did not have my father there, you know, early on. And so there can be all kinds of conversations about the goods and the bads in that, but it it was certainly a dynamic that I did not want to replicate with my daughter. And and and my old man is honest that he, you know, all things being um perfect, not even perfect, being tenable, being all information being available, he wouldn't want to replicate that either. But I don't you know you mark talking about me and and my dad and our children, yeah. You are a person, and we don't talk about this a ton on the show, but you are a person who I have a profound amount of respect for because you are a father as well, you know, and tell me a little bit about your relationship with your dad, and then you went on to have three children, and your story of being a father certainly is laced with a bit of tragedy, you know, and some struggles that that you have met like a trooper, I must say. So can you can you talk a little bit about your life and on this this Father's Day edition?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Uh I I don't know what I can say about my my skills as a father, to be honest with you. Um I think what I've tried to do, um funny enough, early on, is to treat children like adults, funny enough, as soon as I can to let them know the realities of things and and not really you know, you have to give it to them in their in ways that they can understand. But um I don't didn't try to overshelter my kids, which I think you know I see a lot of other parents that are doing too much of, um, which I you know, I know I see how you want to protect your children, but um you have to let them fail, you have to coach them while they fail and be okay with that, let them learn disappointment, let them learn losing, let them learn um how to solve problems themselves. Um, I think uh playing sports is a good thing for children to do for that reason because they learn how to lose. And and I think it's important that you have to learn that there's a lot of disappointment in life, and you have to learn how to accept it and move on from it. Uh you may make mistakes, you know, when you're playing sports, and your teammates may get angry with you, so you have to learn how to deal with that. You know, your daughter, as you said, is a is an athlete, and and and as I think you said right after that, she's a student as much as an athlete, you know, not an athlete alone. You know, that's it. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

She's a student, she's a student more than an athlete. So you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

It it is like athletics are a tool, they're they're part of life, they're not the sole purpose of it, they're not everything, you know. So I think a lot of people get that wrong and they even get the idea of winning wrong. Um, but I think watching, you know, watching your children fail and and letting them cope with it is an important thing to do. Um and then, you know, we also have a um a special needs child, too. So that's a whole nother excuse.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Mark, let me let me stop you because you skipped over some stuff, man. And and look, you lost a child because I certainly want to get to your daughter, but you you lost a child at some point about a decade ago, right? Yeah. Could could could we talk about that a little bit and what what what imp what effect that had on you?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

It was really profound loss, obviously, and um kind of going through dealing with it.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Um, I mean, we don't we don't need to edit it. I think it's something that you know people go through, right? Some people go through it. Um, I I've known of some, you know, I I know a couple here, they they've lost two children.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

And and it's it's an unnatural progression of life for parents to to bury their children. It's just it's unnatural. And it's it's tough. We we even see things um like you have to help me. I can't remember the guy's name. Got played on Young and the Restless, and his his child, his son committed suicide. He was not able to get over it. And eventually he um he took his own life as well, you know. So there's there's just struggles that people go through when you lose a child, yeah. And and you lost your your child, and I think it's instructive, just like. we talked about pain with me and my father, right? We like, okay, hopefully somebody can benefit from this. And and it's raw. And I don't mean to put you on the couch or the spot.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

But but obviously it was a painful thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure it was. I mean, it took it took me a long time to get over it. Um, you know, at least immediately, probably six weeks before I could really function and work. And then probably 18 months or so before I could say that I could move on or try to move on from it. And even to this day I feel guilt about it. So you know when when people talk about Father's Day, it's like I don't feel like I'm any father of the year. But why do you feel guilt? Because I just feel like I didn't do enough or I didn't teach myself my son you know like I didn't equip him. I didn't prepare him for the world in a way. You know, is there something I didn't teach him is there something I didn't make him aware of in order to um avoid his demise you know so um uh well I always feel that way you know I just feel and and you know other people said no he was an adult you know it wasn't your fault and I don't think it's my like literally my fault but but there's still things that I think I could have done better. Yeah because for the for the for the audience's information your your son uh passed from from an overdose right an accidental overdose right yeah yeah accidental overdose now you you also you have two other children um one another son who's who's an architect in California correct um but but you also have a daughter who you have to be a different type of engaged father with her because she's special needs correct right right and you smile you know that's beautiful beautiful because you smile when when she's mentioned yeah tell tell everybody your daughter's name uh my daughter's name is Juliet and uh well you know you'd smile too if you saw her but you know what's really unique about her is that you know she has Down syndrome and she has autism and so she's nonverbal so you know I think funny enough we're we're in Alabama here and one of the most famous alab Alabamians is Helen Keller and Helen Keller couldn't couldn't hear or speak if I remember correctly um the point being that she sort of lived in her own world so you know when you think about my daughter she she doesn't verbalize what she wants so whatever you feed her she can you I mean can you imagine going through a day this way could you imagine going through two hours this way like when you get up in the morning um someone has to change you someone dresses you someone feeds you something that you may or may not want to eat or you know you don't get to eat what you want you eat what you're fed and you know we do our best to sort of understand what she likes and change her diet and manage her diet for that purpose but you know she's not expressing herself does she have a headache I don't know does she have a sore throat I don't know you know does she have a stomach ache we don't know so all those things that you know we commonly complain about on a daily basis or if something's bothering us or we're aware of um she does not express so so we're not aware of what's going on inside her world other than you know I think she does connect with food she knows she knows it's something that's good and that she likes and then and then when you can give her some hugs and and and be affectionate with her. So there is that very primal connection of of affection and you know I can sit on the bed with her and read her books and give her a hug or a kiss or or whatever and you know it does make her smile it does warm her up it does make her feel good and it makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

So the funny thing is like that is the most primal and basic connection that we can have yet it's been the thread that connects us you know so listen man folks you listen to Shelly's Plumbline the most conscious father-son podcast in the universe the world's oldest podcaster according to him my father Shelly the Playboy Stewart is absent today because he's been going through some medical stuff you know but Mark Jamraz listen man what you just said is so beautiful I mean and and and I think you are certainly a beautiful person but as we're talking about fathers and this father's day edition with all the celebrations that you know go on and rightfully around my father and this show is really a celebration of him to tell you the truth and people can say whatever they want to say about me and and his granddaughter you know Jordan and and and her success and she's doing more with that than I am in in our little circle of love here. You the father of the year man I mean because there's so many people who would be going through the things that you've gone through losing your son having to take you know go not just extra steps but extra miles upon miles to take care of your daughter and ensure that she has a good peaceful and loving life they would complain look man people complain about everything under the sun as we talked about a little bit earlier but for you to still have the spirit that you have to smile you enjoyed that journey with your baby and and and look fathers know mothers know too we're talking about dad's day okay it doesn't matter if your child is three or thirty or fifty three you know if if you still alive that's still your baby man much love to you for for everything that you and and and your wife are doing with with your daughter man if if if nobody's told you this I want to be one to tell you this during this father's day celebration it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

You're a beautiful man so anybody anybody who says ever again that Ricky Jones don't like white people you a damn live lawmark jamrod I don't know who said that Ricky you know people get upset if you start talking about some of the racial stuff going on in the country of course you know we need to talk about you for a minute so um not only you know you you've raised this a scholarship athlete daughter but really I'm gonna I want to back up further than that because to me the story you know I've been privileged to to have a good father took care of me you know it wasn't you know we we uh we were east side Detroiters living in a little bungalow family of six fairly big family you know in a kind of small home one bathroom kind of thing but it wasn't terrible you know but um it was by no means luxurious and you know he still managed he took care of us we had you know parochial school education so I was fortunate there but it always makes me wonder like how a guy like Shelley or how a guy like you did manage to to do okay you know how did Shelley in his conditions no father living on the streets so easily could have turned into a drug dealer uh any any anything you know a pin who knows what um or just I don't know I don't know you know it's and it just that completely fascinates me that you know he came out the way he did and you know even your story tell tell me how did that happen who was your inspiration who is your who is your mentor what what what guided you through that my grandmother you know and I and I I tell anybody if it if it were not for my grandmother I don't know what would have become of me you know um a woman born in the 1930s in rural Georgia never had the opportunity to go to school um could not read I mean my grandmother died virtually illiterate and and she did things on her own and so it wasn't just that my father was absent my mother was alive but my mother had me very young has struggled with drug drugs all her life um also struggles you know with with depression and and a number of mental challenges um an immediate family that was rough and tumble i i grew up in the housing projects of Atlanta man and and i i i think that if you talk about educational success professional success all that I was certainly blessed um my father would say it's genes i say it's god maybe a bit of both i was i was blessed and it's not me you know bragging about it but I was blessed with superior intellect you know even as a child and I was everybody around me knows very very smart but if it was if it if it were not for my grandmother setting a a a path for me I would have been done you know I would have been done and so she was and is posthumously the single most important person in my life because even to this day uh there you know little nuggets that my grandmother gave me that I still remember and there's some things that I do and I won't do because of my grandmother like my grandmother was a housekeeper you know so she cleaned homes of wealthy white people largely in Buckhead in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

So she was leaving the one of the poorest areas in the country you know Southwest Atlanta going to Buckhead which is one of the richest areas in the country cleaning these homes and fate would have it down the line I was bussed from my neighborhood in Southwest Atlanta to high school in Buckhead so literally was around the the the homes you know in the neighborhoods where my grandmother cleaned these people's homes until literally until she died. And you know when I talk about stuff affects you like to this day I will never ever have a housekeeper. I will not do it I will not have a housekeeper I do not hire a cleaning service I don't do any of that you know I I do all that stuff on my own. And so things leave you man with you left with wisdom you're left with hope you're left with happiness you're left with good memories but you're also left with scars you know you're left with scars. I mean I I would see my grandmother because of of white supremacy being so profound in the world where she grew up again until she died whenever she would talk to whites she would cold switch but you're talking a totally different way and so for me um as an act of of of of resistance and self-respect I get angry man I get angry when I see black people cold switch now I'm like why are you talking around these people in a way that you don't naturally talk you know what the hell is wrong with you you know because what what that really is is is is insecurity and thinking that somebody's better than them you know I'm gonna talk the same way man in fact sometimes I'll ramp it up be a little bit more aggressive when I'm in certain spaces to show people like I'm not afraid of you you know I do not give you undue respect because of the color your skin so it's just all kinds of stuff man so so the single most important person in my life um was was was my grandma so you're others yeah so you're in the projects man and I mean I haven't been there but I I can assume you know there's a lot of bad influences there right yeah how how did you avoid that you know how did you avoid the peer pressures of come on man sell some drugs come on man steal this come on man no man you know I think let me defend the projects let me defend the projects for a minute and the people in the projects right I think what struggling black communities have always done and my father could probably speak about this because it probably existed in Birmingham too struggling black communities have always had um an inclination to identify and protect our special children you know you see a kid that's really really smart or something uh you hear all these horror stories about oh you know he thinks he white he acting white talking white doing that that's that's not experience I have for the most part kids tease one another they just do that but adults are like nah this boy is smart he's gonna do something I had teachers from the time I was in the first grade yeah you know really really pay attention to my intellectual my scholastic developer and Shelly did too yeah exactly that's what I'm saying by the time I get into seventh grade there were teachers right teachers these are black teachers two black women sat down and told my grandmother we gotta set up a situation where he can go to a better high school you know he doesn't need to go to school in this neighborhood and here's even better story a friend of mine that I grew up with who lived across the street from me you talk about peer pressure he we were the same age when I went away to prep school I went to Newport Rhode Island to prep school and this kid who became he became one of the biggest drug dealers in southwest Atlanta and he was a drug dealer by the time we were getting out of high school and I remember him telling me he said look live right across the street from me he said don't worry about your grandma you know I got her yeah ain't nobody gonna mess with her she'll be straight those are stories you don't hear about quote unquote dope boys the same guy I was home from from college at one point and we go with some friends of ours uh house that we grew up with in the neighborhood I didn't lead a housing projects until I was a senior at Morehouse and we go we play cards and and my guy this is back when beepers you probably remember the beepers so nobody had you know the beepers except doctors and drug dealers and he gets a beep he's like hey man i gotta go somewhere I'll be right back be right back I was like I'll just roll with you and he's like no you stay here you don't need to go where I'm going so you know I don't have memories of people around me in my neighborhood adults and friends who were trying to push me in a different direction I could tell you some other stories too of of being protected you know and and and people outside of my family adopting me you know you talk about it's father's day our father's day show there were there were men from the time I was in elementary and then middle school James R. Terry you know James R Terry a shout out to to Mr Terry who was my eighth grade social studies teacher I collected him basically as a father I'm still in touch with him to this day I joined Cap AlphaSide fraternity because he was a capper you know and I've collected fathers all my life so that stuff is is a blessing so you don't you don't have to share blood with everybody man you know I always say that that um family you take family where you find it yeah you know so so so you know I have so much love and I'm so thankful to you know the men along the way who've stepped in and and they were fathers to me before I even met my own I'm thankful for people like you mark you know who's a fabulous father to your father who's a fabulous father to you some of us don't have to just break generational curses right we're we're laying a nice little groundwork that like nice little foundation you know I don't know if we need to say anything else man i think we I think you hit it man I think you nailed it I I think what we have to do is we have to uh do a little shout out and a little tribute to to all the fathers and I think what you just said is really amazing because I've been I've been noted you know uh in one of the young men I coached when I coached some hockey and and he posted you know his father hadn't been in his life but on a father's day a few years ago on Facebook he said here's to the men that did that were my father's and that's sort of what you're saying you know yes it's you don't have to be a father to be a father.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

You know you can be a father in somebody's life in many ways and and he you know mentioned me as coach and whatnot among other men that that had influence on his life. So I think that's I think that's the perfect way to wrap this one man.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah yeah it it it matters to the men out there whether you're fathers or not men you matter you know there's a lot of well not a lot but there certainly is some talk in certain circles about the you know kind of the mental breakdown of a lot of men and and people need to understand that whether we are fathers or not men men matter we're human beings we have feelings you know we hurt we bleed just like everybody else support one another uh fathers um go hug your children children hug your fathers tell them happy father's day and men go hug some other man and say hey man you're a good brother you're good you're a good dad and if you haven't been a good dad you still got some time to be better and tell them you heard it right here on Sally's plumline the most conscious father son podcast in the universe with our dear brother Mark Jamrod and as we say Mark as my dad would say in the end of the day there's always my side there's your side my side somewhere in the middle there is the truth I love you mark happy father's day to everybody