The Bridge for Early Career Preachers "Preachercast"
The Bridge for Early Career Preachers "Preachercast"
Season 2, Episode 10: Rev. Brandon J. Perkins
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Welcome to the Bridge for Early Career Preachers PreacherCast. The mission of the Bridge for Early Career Preachers is to provide resources, continuing education, and a supportive community for those who are moving from aspiring to active preaching ministries. am one of your hosts, uh, Rich Volz. I serve as Associate Professor of Preaching and Worship at Union Presbyterian Seminary, based out of our Richmond campus. And I am here with our co host, Reverend Mandy England Cole. Mandy, say hi, introduce yourself. Welcome, Mandy. Always glad that you're here. Friends, the preacher cast has attended to profile preachers to hear their stories and to reflect on their own preaching identities. We want to engage with preachers as they reflect on their identity and their experiences. This is not the place for us handing down tips and tricks or preaching wisdom from on high. are really delighted this month to welcome the Reverend Brandon J. Perkins. Brandon is a graduate from the historic Fisk University in Nashville with degrees in history and religion and philosophical studies and also a graduate of Traveca Nazarene University with a Master of Arts in teaching degree. He holds the Masters in Divinity and Masters in Christian Education degrees from Columbia Theological Seminary in Decatur, Georgia, he serves as a bivocational minister. Um, a growing, uh, profession and growing way to spend time among many of these of you who are listening and his full time work is teaching high school history at Decatur High School. in Decatur, Georgia, while also serving as youth minister at Fellowship of Love Church in Fayetteville, Georgia. He is husband to Sarah, who is also an ordained clergy person, the father to a beautiful little girl named Serena. And Brandon is also a brand new member of the Bridge for Early Career Preachers Board of Advisors. We are grateful for his wisdom and his service. Brandon, welcome. And I really look forward to our conversation today.
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Welcome. Thanks. So
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:So tell us about how long you've been preaching and tell us about your current preaching context.
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:I started preaching when I was 17. I am 36 now, which means, oh my God, next year will be 20 years. Uh, so yeah, April of 2005, I acknowledge my calling to preach in the Baptist tradition. And really had no idea what I was doing, but just felt this call to. To use my voice to say something about God. Um, and so that has evolved over the years and now I serve as a youth pastor and I've been doing that work for almost nine years. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it was maybe 15, 16. I was really gung ho about God and didn't know what to do with it. Um, and so I started having a Bible study. On the phone with my friend most evenings. And so we would read the Bible, read different passages and talk about it. And then several evenings after we would read the Bible together, I found myself just like talking about the Bible a lot, like, but like in like teacher preacher style, and so it was just me in my bedroom, like preaching these sermons to. No one. And so I was like, well, this is weird. And, uh, never really wanted to be a preacher. Uh, my father's a preacher. And so I was like, no, that's my father's thing. And because I, was diagnosed with a speech impediment in the second grade. I was like, no, you have to be really well versed and know how to talk really well to be a preacher. I was like, that's not my thing. And yet the sermons in my bedroom continue. Uh, and I was like, okay, maybe God is up to something here. And so I really started like just being really fervent in prayer about, okay, If this is the way God make it clear and one evening at church, uh, it was really clear. And I was like, okay, here we go on what this is going to look like. But yeah. And ever since then, um, I've been doing this thing called preaching.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Tell us a little bit more about that sense of clarity. You said there was a sort of moment. What, what was that like for you? If you can put words
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. I mean, so after a few months of like preaching these sermons in my bedroom, uh, we In prayer, I think, uh, you know, we were in prayer at my local church and it was a closing prayer. And I remember praying under my breath, God, if I'm supposed to be a preacher, make it clear. And I heard this voice and this doesn't happen often much anymore, but I heard this voice And the voice just said, go. And I was like, okay. Uh, I don't really know what that means, but I think I, I get the sense that that go means to do what I think I've already know what I'm supposed to do. And so, yeah, I mean that, that next Sunday, I publicly acknowledged my calling to preach to the ministry, um, in February of 2005.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Wow. So the voice was permission and, and
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:yeah.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Uh, I love that. us a little bit about Fellowship of Love and, and the context in which you, you preach
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:So we are a non denominational church, uh, mostly made up of people who at one point or another were part of Baptist or Methodist denominations, and, uh, we are a smaller church, about a hundred and, uh, 25, 150 members, and we've been around now, gosh, 16 years. And so I have been there almost nine, and it's the only place where I have served as an ordained reverend. And so, uh, I have to say, I have kind of grown into the youth pastor role there, uh, and the The head of staff was really clear when I was hired that I would not preach, uh, in the main worship, uh, often and that has held true. And so what I have learned is how to fall in love with my teaching style more. And so now I have learned to love these 20 minute teachings that I get to give to my students. six to 12th graders every Sunday.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Um, sometimes Brandon, I, you're already starting to go this way when you think about You talk about your teaching voice, but when we talk about a preacher's unique identity, their, their unique gifts, we talk about voice. Um, and so how would you describe your voice? In other words, you know, what, what makes you the preacher that you
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Oh gosh. And see, I think Rich, when I think about that question, I mean, having done this for a bit now, that's been a hard one for me only because when I started out, I was 17 in a church of all these older ministers. And I wanted to do what they did. Uh, in the black church tradition, I wanted to do the, the three points and a good close. I realized that that wasn't me, but for years I. I stumbled through trying to find my voice. And now I was like, okay, well, maybe I'll do these really, really long sermons. And I was like, I don't want to hear my own voice for 35, 45 minutes. I just don't. And so then I was like, okay, what does Brandon sound like? And then what, what is the good news as I understand it in, in my body. And so as I fell in love with teaching, I fell in love with. Asking big questions. So my voice now is a voice where I'm trying to necessarily, um, do a, a three points and a close anymore. It's, can I make one really good point and ask them really big questions? Because for me, I mean, I teach history full time, and so I'm always wrestling with how could we have been better as people in this moment? So I'm always wrestling with how can we be better as people? And so I'm always grappling with these big ethical, historical questions. So I'm trying toe. Bring that to a preaching moment and just trying to really wrestle. I mean, I'm trying to invite people into the wrestling with me and, and that really resolving it. I mean, I know some pastors who will open these big questions and then tie it up neatly at the end. And I'm like, look, I've taught history long enough to know that most times we don't get resolution. We just get more questions. And I'm trying to invite people into the messiness. Of not only scripture, but life and I think giving them permission to wrestle more.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:And I, I love that. And, um, for our listeners who don't know me and you, we
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yes, yes,
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Uh, and so I know that during that time, Uh, we were talking before we started recording. We've known each other for
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:right. Yeah,
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Uh, I've known, I've known you since you were an undergrad. So I know that your sort of personal faith has changed and it's, it, I mean, just, it sounds to me, if you would say just a little bit more about this, that like your faith now is different and your faith is more comfortable with the big kinds of questions as well. So it sounds like your voice, uh, mirrors, uh, your own growth and faith in some ways.
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:a thousand percent. Yeah. I mean, uh, I heard a friend say it this way, rich, uh, at one point in my life, I believed a lot of things, but I believed them at a surface level and now I believe far less things concretely. And I'm way more open to mystery and way more open to being surprised about the vastness of God, the vastness of the human experience. And I think, yeah, that has come through, um, study. I mean, those four years in seminary, I was. Anything that was not nailed down was being tossed out. Uh, I mean, cause it was like a wholesale, everything must go. I was really trying to create a faith that had the capacity to deal with these big questions of life. And I think in, in now eight and a half years of teaching history, I think that lens gives me a view of the world where I'm like, well, look, human beings have never. Quite gotten it, right? And why is that? And how can we get it not right? How can we get it better than what it has been?......
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:What's a lesson you learned early in your preaching career? Something that you, uh, little tiny Brandon would want to go back and whisper in your early preaching self's ear.
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:So I've often heard it said that good preachers listen to good preachers. And I think that's true comma, I think sometimes when you are young, particularly when you are young, you're starting out. When you listen to good preachers, you think you have to sound like that particular good preacher. Um, and I remember spending so many countless hours listening to sermons on YouTube in the, in the basement of the Fisk Memorial Chapel, and thinking that my voice had to mirror those voices. and trying to make myself sound like in my cadence and how I wrote down points in a sermon, those sermons. And so I think it's, if I had a lesson, it would be, yes, listen to people who are doing this thing called preaching, but also still make time to discern what, what does God sound like through your voice? Uh, and that's hard. That is especially hard when you're young and you just want to get this thing called preaching, right? Yeah. I mean, and it's one of the things of, um, I thought that maybe I'll have this preaching thing figured out after undergrad. And then I Read some more. I learned some more. I live some more. And I was like, okay, maybe I'll have this preaching thing figured out after seminary. And then I read some more. I learned some more. I grew some more. And so like, I feel like now at 36, I'm like, no, like my voice and how I do this thing called preaching is constantly evolving because I'm constantly evolving. Like how I see the world and how I see God are constantly evolving. So how I'm going to talk about God. It's constantly evolving. So for me, uh, Dr. Frank Thomas has a book called how to preach a dangerous sermon. Uh, and so for me, as a pastor who does not preach often, uh, I have the liberty, I guess. not being the head pastor who has to preach on things like stewardship. Like I don't have to do those kinds of sermons or, or, you know, the sermons that, you know, help keep the lights on. I don't have to do those sermons. I have the liberty, I think, to preach more dangerous sermons, sermons that challenge the status quo, sermons that push us to To be what I hope are our better selves. And so for me, I'm really interested now as someone who sits in the seat of teaching world history every day to 17 year olds, like, how do we look at our faith and say, how can we be more expansive and how we understand our faith? So I'm looking now for more ecumenical conversations of like, how can we, Understand the role of Christianity in the midst of other world religions, not sacrificing what makes us Christian, understanding how do we make a more just world, a more Christ like world, while also listening to our sisters and brothers of other traditions. Yeah, I'm trying. I'm trying. I mean, and it's fascinating now is because now that I've, I've grown into my teaching role more, I feel like now my sermons sound the same in the sense of like, I've got a couple of things. Now that I'm trying to hit home. I'm trying to hit home. The themes of let's make a better world together. Let's be good, kind, compassionate people. And let's. Take care of the planet. Like those are things I I'm trying to hit home in some way. Um, justice community, like those are things that I'm trying to hit in every sermon. And like, as I'm writing sermons now, I'm like, well, I said this last time that I'm like, but look at the world, I should probably say it again. And so for me, it's like, I look at pastors who are. On the speaking circuit and, you know, the things that they're saying, I get it, they're speaking to thousands of people and those sermons sound a certain way. I think for me, where I am in life, I'm trying to preach sermons that I hope don't just make us feel good in the sanctuary, but hopefully make us be better people come Monday morning.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:And I for me, Brandon, that comes straight out of the, your bi
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Correct?
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:right? You've already talked a little bit about your role as a teacher. You know, we named that at the beginning. Um, that you're you're sitting
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Correct.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:students during the week and like, uh, in very real ways are walking in that world with them as they struggle with those questions too. And so I think, you know, it's good for us, uh, those of us who are listening in on this podcast, especially to, to hear folks who are not just full time pastors, right? You're coming from a different set of experiences. from and to your
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. I mean, and, uh, I was sitting with some pastor friends who are, uh, heads of staff. Um, yeah. Yeah. Just this last week we were talking about, like, as, as teachers, who am I accountable to? And for me, I'm accountable to give my students some tools to understand their place in the world and their role in it. And they were saying as pastors, they're called to do the same, but sometimes it's trickier. Because there's all of the things you have to do again as pastors to keep the lights on. Whereas, yeah, I mean, like, I mean they are what they are, uh, but I'm talking to 17 year olds and my only mandate is to teach them history, hopefully in a way that resonates and helps them think about the world and their place in it and hopefully lasting ways.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:And you're also not just teaching the content of what's coming up on the
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Oh,
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:tests. I mean, you're talking about, yeah, you're talking about education
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:correct. Like for me, one of the things that we do in in our class is we're daily analyzing current events and we're talking about, hey, y'all, how should we understand this thing? And what is our role in helping to transform this thing? And so we're always talking about in our class. How do we understand what's going on in the world and what we should do about it?
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Brendan, let's shift
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Okay.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:a little bit. Tell us about the strangest or funniest moment you've
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Okay. Got a couple here. So I was thinking about this earlier today. So I think at this point I'm 18 or 19 living in Nashville and undergrad. I don't really know what I'm doing with preaching. And as a young preacher who's trying to make a name for themselves in Nashville, where there are a million preachers, you take every preaching engagement that someone throws your way. So a friend of mine, Coffin says, Brandon, come preach at this church. So I pull up to this church, but it's somebody's house. And so I come in and it's someone's living room where they have set up folding chairs and it's like. 13 people and in the kitchen, they are making Sunday dinner. And so at one point I'm up preaching and like, I can smell the collard greens and the fried chicken, like cooking, like in the next room. And I was like, okay, this is interesting.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:I got to interrupt you. Is that when you decided you didn't want to preach 35 minute sermons anymore?
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:I mean it did smell very good and so I was like, but for me it gave me an appreciation for people who take the call to be community seriously. Uh, and, you know, they were faithful, uh, over that small church for several years. Um, but that's one story. Uh, another good one is I'm preaching a seven last word service, which now I loathe because they go on forever and ever and ever. Uh, I'm preaching a seven last words service and I'm probably 20 or 21 at this point, and I've got a kind of a hoop going, I think, and I forget to drink water at the start of my sermon. And so now I've got all this saliva building up in my mouth and I get cotton mouth and it's like I'm trying to speak and like ain't nothing coming out because I have not properly lubricated. Uh, and it's I, as preachers say, I, I died a terrible death that day because I didn't drink any water. Uh, so yeah, those are probably two of my favorites. I mean,
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:body
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:one of the things that, like, you learn, like, hanging around preachers, like, Hey, have some water, have some cough drops, always, like, on standby, because You will preach and you will get cotton mouth and it'll be bad. It'll be real bad. Yeah. Um, early on, I thought you had to like go in a quiet room and wait to hear the sermon from God. Like I would like know my scripture and I would like, I would like just wait to hear the sermon. And now. I'm like the sermon hits you when it hits you. Uh, so for me now, I'm very glad now we're in the era of notes apps. And so now the amount of times where, uh, I will get a thought, a random thought that, Hmm, and I'll be like, okay, notes app X, Y, and Z. And then I'll get another random thought later. And now my phone is full of random notes apps. And so for me, it's not waiting for the sermon to come all at one moment. Cause oftentimes for me, at least that is not how God speaks to my sermon. I says, uh, very rarely now does it come all, all in one fell swoop. Um, another one is for me, I was in a tradition where, uh, you wrote the sermon as a single solitary person. You went in the room again, you heard from God and you typed it out or wrote it out. Now, my best sermons are sermons where I've at least talked to somebody about what I'm thinking about or sent them part of the actual sermon, uh, to look at and when I look at sermons that were well structured and well preached, oftentimes it is sermons where I've at least had some kind of conversation partner in that process.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:can confirm that that is something that
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:I will say yes, yes, but rich. I have an idea. I need to, I need some guidance. Absolutely.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:So
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. I mean now I will say oftentimes when I preach, I know about it like weeks ahead of time. And so as I'm teaching are listening to music, I'll get thoughts over a week or two. And so I know for those of you who are listening who are Full time heads of staff who have to do this thing every week that may not work. Like sometimes we have to go into the room. And type it out in five or six hours. I get that. I'm saying to me, oftentimes, uh, I do have a longer period of time between sermon.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Brandon, the other thing that struck me as you were talking both with that sort of fragmented notes app kind of piece, but also, um, the, the idea of being collaborative. I was thinking about
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. Yeah.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:So, I mean, I've, I've, I've listened to a lot of music and follow a lot of musicians. And it strikes me that both of those things hold true for a lot of the musicians that I love. They get little fragments of a song, right? And they'll, they'll hum the line, right? They'll, they'll hum the melody or capture fragment of a lyric in the notes app, but also that, you know, songwriters often don't work alone. They, they collaborate with others to help polish and think about the structure of a song and whether the melody or the hook, you know, the chorus really works for the song or, you know, to rewrite lines together. So the, those best songs kind of happen in a session. I'm just really kind of struck by the, by both of those pieces and how they match up with a lot of contemporary music
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. I mean, and some of my, uh, good friends, I mean, also make music and something that they have that, that, that similar process of, Hey, I heard part of this song and I have a couple of chords. Can I play them? And, you know, I'm like, sure, I'll give you some, some feedback on it. And like, I'll send like a text, like, Hey, I saw the news and I'm thinking about this. I'm hearing God in this way about this and they'll send the text back or they'll be like, oh, that's really good. Now develop this more. And so now, I mean, there are several friends throughout the country where we just text back and forth or send memes. Like, now, I mean, so honestly, now we send memes back and forth from history. Like, this meme makes me think of a sermon on X, Y and Z. So now we are memeing, uh, our, our preaching thoughts.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:I love it. So good. Brandon, we're starting to close our time together. This has been really fun. I knew it would be, but the bridge serves preachers who are early in their career. What word would you like to leave for them? I
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Experiment. Experiment. Um, we're doing this for a while now, and I have taken some risk in the pulpit. Uh, I have said things that were half baked. I have said things that were over baked, and I'm still here. Uh, I don't get nearly as many invitations as many of my peers do, and I'm okay with that. Uh, because for me, at this point, in my career now, I want to be faithful to what God has called me to say. And that comes by experimenting, saying things out, trying them out and trying to do this thing called preaching in a way that hopefully makes us better people. And so that means taking risk for the sake of the gospel.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:love it. Thank you so much for your time. has been really fun. always a great chance to to talk with you and really looking forward to the ways that you'll pitch in as a member of our board of advisors for
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:was awesome. Thank you all so much.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:Well, friends, we would send you to our website, uh, www. upsim. edu slash bridge to find out more about us. You can also catch us on Instagram and Facebook. Give us a follow over there. The Bridge for Early Career Preachers is funded by a generous grant from the Lilly Endowment's Compelling Preaching Initiative. You can find out more about that and about other grant programs like us at compellingpreaching. org. We'll be back next month with another episode. So until next time we encourage you to preach faithfully, to preach boldly, to experiment at
brandon-perkins--he-him-_1_10-03-2024_180611:Yeah. Yeah.
rich-voelz--he-him-_2_10-03-2024_180611:and know that we are here for you in these early years of preaching. Take care.