The Minor Prophets: Hosea

In this episode, we continue our Minor Prophets series with the book of Hosea, exploring a recurring biblical pattern—God brings order, people distort it, prophets call for repentance, and when ignored, collapse and renewal follow. 📖

We place Hosea in the final days of the Northern Kingdom and unpack his striking story: a commanded marriage to Gomer that becomes a living parable of covenant unfaithfulness. Through the symbolic names of his children and his costly act of redemption, we see both the depth of human brokenness and the persistence of God’s grace. 💔✨

Along the way, we reflect on exile as a form of reset and God’s refusal to abandon His people, ending with Hosea’s call to return. We also preview our next stop—Micah. 🎙️

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Transcript

Hosea 

JR: [00:00:00] What God builds man wants to institutionalize. And what we institutionalize we corrupt. And what we corrupt God confronts and what God confronts, he eventually collapses and then he rebuilds. 

And so once you understand that cosmic pattern, then you see it everywhere,  

David: Okay, so last episode we talked about Joel and this episode we're gonna talk about the second in our minor profit series, which is Hosea. 

And I don't know, I I found Hosea, I think you were just saying before you hit record, that you go, yeah, I kind of know the story of Hosea. It's pretty well known, but then there's a lot to it. So we're gonna unpack Hosea today. not gonna cover all 14 chapters or whatever it is, 

JR: right. Well, I com 

David: of the story. 

JR: I compared it to the book of job that I think I know that story too, but then when you actually read it, it goes on and on and on. And I, I just forgot that Hosea kind of does go on and on and on. And so anyway, I just made a [00:01:00] mention to you. It's like, man, if we get into the details, this'll take us, 10 episodes. 

David: Yeah, that's 

JR: So we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to skim this,  

David: but the actual story and the, it's the same way with Joel, even though Joel's a shorter book, the actual, I say the narrative part of it is only a couple chapters, and then you have all these prophetic oracles, 

JR: Right. 

David: understand the narrative to understand what the Oracles really are getting at. But in this series so much, we're not really talking about all the specific oracles, we're just kind of hitting on the narrative of that profit. So that's why I think Hosea, well, I say we'll keep it short, but who knows? 

JR: It never works that way. 

David: it never works that way. But you were talking about, we're talking about pulling out the patterns because. We've said that's what a prophet really is, someone who pulls the patterns out of the culture and says, this is not only what will happen, but this is what's happening right now. Right. 

but you were saying there's a larger pattern in the Bible that you kind of wanted to start out talking about.[00:02:00]  

JR: Well, yeah, I thought it was a good place to start because I think last episode we talked about how profits aren't necessarily fortune tellers. cause that's the way we think about it. Kind of modern, a modern day profit, but they're, they're people who see patterns. Well, there's an overall biblical pattern that's also worth going over because the profits are part of that rhythm. 

Right? And so the Bible starts out with, Genesis starts with creation, right? And we've talked about this in other episodes order out of chaos. And it's worth mentioning that chaos isn't evil, it's just unformed potential, right? That's just, it's sort of, there's just something there, but there's no, there's no, yeah, there's no formation to it. 

So anyway, Genesis starts with creation, you know, pulling order out of chaos. And then after the creation, we see the rise of Israel. We see. Abraham and Moses, and the difficulties of reaching the promised land, and this is giving more structure to the order that God created in Genesis. So it's like a [00:03:00] additional order, right? 

And then Israel moving on through the Bible. Israel wants a king, right? Despite God's warning. And we kinda have this long period of most of the kings being evil, just verse after verse of so and so did evil, the inside of the Lord, and just goes king, after King did evil, did these evil things, right? 

And so this, this is, we're starting to see, the building of order, and now we're starting to see corruption within the order, And it degenerates into something like oppression. We'll just say that, and sometimes it's sin, it's in different ways, but it's, it's the degeneration of order. 

And so at the same time, that's when the religious institutions become hollow. They become performative, right? And. Hosea talks about this, and so we'll get into that here in a second. But yeah, so the order becomes corrupt and the religious institutions become performative. And this is where the prophets show up, And a prophet they disrupt, right? They call out, they expose the corrupted order. That's what they do. And this is [00:04:00] why most of the kings hated the prophets. They're always butting heads with them because the kings are the pinnacle and representation of the order. And the prophets come along and are constantly tearing that down. 

It's calling 'em out. they're always exposing where the order is turning into oppression. And so to continue on, uh, uh, once the prophets disrupt the system, then the system kind of breaks down and. The order collapses back into chaos and something new emerges. And that's part that's restoration. 

And so restoration comes along that brings new order, but it's always something different, right? it's renewed. It's not just rebuilt. The old order is not rebuilt, it's something new. And so that's the pattern you see all through the Bible. And when you recognize that, that's where the prophets show up, it's actually helpful to see Hosea in any of the prophets major or minor, that they're this chaos agent to the corrupted order. 

I was trying to kind of get it all compact what God builds man wants to institutionalize. [00:05:00] And what we institutionalize we corrupt. And what we corrupt God confronts and what God confronts, he eventually collapses and then he re rebuilds. 

And so once you understand that cosmic pattern. then you see it everywhere, then you see it everywhere, right? You see it in the rise and fall of church communities. You see it in the rise and fall of our country. You see it in the rise and fall of social movements of companies, And you even see it in the rise and fall of your own habits and disciplines. 

Once you see that pattern, you see it everywhere. And so we talk about fractals, the pattern within the pattern, so that's the overall biblical pattern. But even in Hosea, you're gonna see this pattern on a smaller scale. 

David: I would add probably in there that when God confronts and we saw this last time in Joel, when God confronts there's an opportunity for repentance, which then can lead to that restoration. 

JR: Yeah. 

David: we don't repent, that's the judgment part. That's what you're calling, I think you said like, God tears down. 

That's actually 

JR: Right? 

David: [00:06:00] Right. 

JR: Right. Sure. 

David: yeah, you're right. So Joel kind of fits the, is a microcosm of that pattern. 

JR: Yeah, 

David: That's the only thing I would add in there is that idea of either the repentance or judgment that we talked about in Joel, but yeah, it's not just that God's gonna go tear down, it's just that, you know, quite honestly, we usually don't repent. 

We we suck at repenting. Right. 

JR: sure. 

David: we're not good at stopping ourselves and saying, wait, I have to realign my life here. And certainly cultures and institutional structures are not good at that. 

JR: It's just funny 'cause you think about companies and you see this all the time. You see a hot new company, everybody loves them and they start spreading out and they franchise and they, you got Starbucks everywhere. Well then that thing that made them, succeed. 

Becomes solidified and it becomes rigid and it becomes institutionalized. And then you just see that they're not as flexible. And then the new company comes in and they're the hot new [00:07:00] thing. And the old company can't adjust fast enough because they're so rigid, you know? it's that chaos and order, tension that Jordan Peterson talks about and other people talk about that really, you see that, you just see it in the Bible. 

And I've never thought about it that way, but that's exactly how, creation starts. and, well, like I just laid out all the way up to where Israel wants a king, and that's sort of the pinnacle of order. They've got, they have their national identity. they know who they are, but it's almost like they look at their national identity as an idol, or it becomes an idol, and that's what they look at instead of God. 

And that's when God says, you're getting away from it. You're drifting. like you said, he gives him the opportunity to repent usually through prophets. and if that doesn't happen, then God tears it down. 

David: But also when you've instituted a monarchy basically the king then speaks for God, right? Because it's not a judge, or it's not a patriarch anymore, it's it's a king and it's one king. 

JR: [00:08:00] Right. 

David: once that king becomes corrupted in some way, like who's going to speak the voice of God to that king? Well, it has to be someone from outside the system, right? 

 Because 

JR: Yeah. 

David: aren't gonna do it, 

JR: Right, 

David: right? History plays that out. So I also think that's kind of the role the prophet too, is as you were talking about that pattern, the person, it's kind of the why. It's the John the Baptist, out in the desert, right? 

who's gonna prod the king? 

Who's gonna speak to authority? who else is the king gonna listen to at that point, if they're no longer listening to God? 

JR: Yeah. 

David: yeah, 

JR: he is outside the system. 

David: Yeah. It's outside the system. Yeah. 

JR: and when kings start to kill prophets, look out, man. I mean, it's over because Yeah. It's the only voice. Yeah. It's the only voice of stability that gives them the opportunity for repentance and they wanna get rid of it. 

David: what is it? In medieval kingdoms, medieval courts, you'd have the court jester, you know, where the [00:09:00] fool, 

JR: Yeah. 

David: when the king kills the court jester. Okay, now you should be afraid, right? 

JR: Yes, exactly. 

David: right. that institution has lost all sense of humor, and that sense of humor, gosh, we're getting to get into Jose here in a minute, but 

JR: I know. Golly. 

David: is really that, it's the ability to look at yourself and laugh, And even on a personal level, we're going down rabbit trails, but even on our personal level, when you have lost the ability to look at yourself and laugh at yourself,  

JR: Yeah. 

David: gonna speak into your life,  

JR: yeah, you've built up a wall of defensiveness and there's no humility in there. And Yeah, it's just the sign that you're going in the wrong direction and that you're actually at the end of something. 

David: actually does fit pretty well then I think it gives a good context for Hosea because brought up some of the very things in my notes that, to talk about some of the examples of, you know, what happens when a culture, no longer is able to look at itself, right? 

JR: Right. 

David: so, So should we just start talking about Hosea? 

JR: Yeah. Yeah. Let's jump in. 

David: [00:10:00] alright, so what do we know about Hosea for Joel? Last time we remember we said we didn't know much. We know a little bit more about Hosea Hosea one verse one says, the word of the Lord came to Hosea, son of be Erie. There's the father again during the reign of Siah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, Kings of Judah. 

So he's listing the southern kings and during the reign of Rebo, son of Je HOAs, king of Israel. So that's the king in the north gerbo ii. 

so through the rest of the book, you get the idea that he's really prophesying to the northern kingdom because that's where a lot of it his, um, prophecies are directed toward. 

And so we know that Hosea prophesied during the reign of Jarome ii, of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, and he's prophesying before the collapse of the Northern Kingdom, is 7 22 is when Assyria came in and exiled Israel, the Northern [00:11:00] Kingdom. 

And so Hosea is prophesying just before this happens because he's actually saying, this is what's going to happen if you don't pay attention. Lo and behold, 

JR: Right. 

David: a 
 

JR: It happened exactly. 

David: uh, within like, you know, 10 years or so, like actually J Boem II and then everything collapses and Assyria comes in and takes over. So that's a very broad strokes about what the time period of, of Hosea and what the circumstances are. So he's talking to the Northern Kingdom primarily right before the Northern Kingdom falls. 

JR: Well, okay, so this, uh, this may be a rabbit trail and we're good at this, but we talk about how prophets see patterns and it's like you can see society, they can see culture start to crumble. So right at the beginning you said that this is, this happened around 7 22 when Assyria came in and took over the northern kingdom. Right? That really is more prophetic than pattern seeing. Do you see what [00:12:00] I'm saying? Or do you think that Assyria saw the weakness in the northern culture that Hosea was pointing to and they said, now's the time to strike. 

I mean, I realize you can't really answer that definitively, but you know what I mean? Like what are your thoughts on that? 

David: Well, the easy answer is it's both because it's a little bit of, keep saying this, we said it with Joel, the prophet sees the pattern and says, this is not what's going to happen, is what's already happening.  

JR: Right. 

David: the prophet also has and the insight to be able to see that. 

That's why they can see it and no one else can. That's why I say it's a little bit of both, I think, but it's not beyond the realm of imagination. to know that was the dominant world power at the time, and I don't know all the details, but they were definitely like just not happy to sit in their own kingdom. 

They were expanding their kingdom. They were having fights with Egypt, [00:13:00] And so doesn't take a real genius, but it does take someone to who's paying attention to be able to see that if our structure is weakening, we're going to be ripe for the pickings for this power broker that's moving through the area, right? 

JR: No, that makes sense. 

David: you could do that today. Someone who's really astute reading the patterns, they could do the same thing today, but again, I think we said this last episode, you also don't wanna minimize the role of the prophet. getting their insights from God because of that connection with God. 

So I don't wanna minimize that either.  

JR: no, that makes sense. Well, you could kind of see it when the Berlin wall fell. Reagan was the president at the time. How did Reagan know that communism was collapsing? You know, well, there are lots of signs and I, and I was young at the time, but you know, there's, all these signs and signals and so the president at the right time thought, this is the moment I can stand up and I can, and this is different than invading a country like Assyria did. 

But it is the same type of [00:14:00] concept of now is the time to stand up and speak out and say, tear down this wall. And you know, because you saw all the signs and the signals, that now is the time. And so. Yeah, you could see asy seeing, they don't just arbitrarily go trying to punch out the neighbor, right? 

they look for weaknesses and they're going to go into battle on something that they're assured at winning. And when you see cultural collapse, well, they're fragmented a hundred different ways, so now's the time to make our move,  

David: yeah, yeah. Hosea, throughout his prophecies, he's gonna point out things like, the politicians are having these power struggles. These are some of the things that we're gonna pull out of some of these prophecies. he talks about exploitation of the poor, empty religious ritual. We talked about performative 

JR: Yeah. 

David: right? 

JR: Yep, 

David: of 
 

JR: yep. 

David: to what's going on, specifically worship of other gods, namely Baal. And so all these things that Hosea is pointing out, again, someone who's paying attention would [00:15:00] say, yeah, our, culture is teetering right now. And it's not, it's doesn't take a big calamity, like a locust invasion to topple it. 

All it takes is just, you know, 

JR: Yep. 

David: to that pattern, right? God just kind of poking his finger and watching the thing tumble that was teetering anyway. 

JR: So in a way, Hosea isn't just pointing out a particular moral failure, you know, because there's a tendency to look at this and say, oh, wow. They were, the empty religious rituals and that they're worshiping Baal. And to look at that as when you sin, collapses near. But that's not really what Jose is doing. 

He's not pointing out a particular moral failure, he's warning of, of like a complete systemic collapse.  

David: Yeah. Yeah. 

JR: ' cause he, he's listing all these things off as a laundry list of, look, this is wrong, this is wrong. Any one of those things is bad in and of itself, but all put together, we're about to, witness collapse. 

And it's interesting because when you see a collapse, and I'm talking about something like on a smaller scale, like in [00:16:00] your own life, it doesn't feel like a collapse when you're in it. You know what I mean? it feels like, two or three things just didn't go my way. 

And oh no. And then there's a domino effect and the next thing you do, you're fired from your job and you're filed filing bankruptcy or something like that. Right? And, and you see this whole collapse, but when you're in the middle of it, It feels like, if this one little thing at work. 

Yeah. I came in late one time and, and they fired me. It's like, no, man. There's a whole, there's a whole buildup to this. It's not just one thing, but we like to point to one thing. We like to point to the one time that, there was a wreck on the way to work, and I show up 30 minutes late and suddenly they're telling me to walk out the door. 

It's like, man, it's a pattern, dude. It's not just one thing, but when you're in the middle of it, it feels like one particular thing. And so anyway, I say that to say it's probably a good idea not to look at this laundry list that Jose is listing and say, oh, here's, there's the ba the bail. That's what did it. 

You know, or it's, it's exploiting [00:17:00] the poor. That's what they did wrong. It's like, no, it's, it's all of those things and it's almost like it's a cause and effect. he's almost pointing out the effects of what's going on of the internal rot that's happening to their culture. 

David: right. It's not just one thing I read somewhere, I think Malcolm Gladwell talked about it, where anything catastrophic that happens like an airplane crash. It's never 

JR: Oh, yeah, 

David: It's a series of at least seven events. I'm sure he talked about it in one of those books, but he's like, anything really catastrophic that happens. 

He's like, it was a whole series of things that went wrong, not just one thing. And so I think that's a good example. Then is pointing out the whole series of things that's going wrong again, he's like, look, collapse is inevitable if we don't start paying attention. Because you gotta keep that idea of repentance and judgment also in mind. 

 Hosea is gonna do this in pretty dramatic fashion and I think this conversation actually helps frame the part of Hosea that a lot of [00:18:00] people might be familiar with, which is right off in Hosea chapter one, verse two through nine. And it's funny because I thought this was the story of Hosea and it's really like eight verses. 

And there's all these other chapters, but it is the dramatic demonstration that God calls Hosea to do. 

let's have people listen to verses two through nine, then we'll start talking about it.  

When the Lord began to speak through Hosea, the Lord said to him, go marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her for like an adulterous wife. This land is guilty of unfaithfulness to the Lord. So he married Gomer daughter of Deim, and she conceived and bore him a son. Then the Lord said to Hosea, call him Jezreel, because I will soon punish the house of Jehu for the massacre at Jezreel, and I will put an end to the Kingdom of Israel. 

In that day, I will break Israel's bow in the valley of Jez Israel. Gomer conceived again and gave birth to her daughter. Then the Lord said to [00:19:00] Hosea, call her Lo Hamer, which means not loved. For I will no longer show love to Israel, that I should at all forgive them. Yet I will show love to Judah and I will save them not by bow sword or battle, or by horses and horsemen, but either Lord, their God will save them after she had weaned Lo rahma. 

Gomer had another son. The Lord said, call him Lo Army, which means not my people. For you are not my people, and I am not your God. 

David: yeah. So it's funny, like one, verse two. It just says the Lord speaks to Hosea and says, go marry a promiscuous woman and have children with her. there's no really lead into this story is there? 

It's just like, here's what I want you to do. 

JR: Yeah. Yeah. Kinda shocking, you know? Oh, this is, you know, you sure about that? I don't know how much Hosea pushed back on this idea, but you know, I feel like he would've had to have pulled a Gideon and said, let me lay the fleece out a couple more times to make sure that I'm hearing the right thing. 

Right. go [00:20:00] marry a prostitute and have kids 

David: Yeah. I'm sure this is one where Hosea, prayed on it several nights in a row. Right. Just to get clarity from God. But this is this is what people know of Hosea usually, right? 

Hosea is the prophet that married the prostitute. And as a demonstration of like, basically we'll get into this, but you know, Israel's unfaithfulness towards God. But yeah, right off the bat we hear this, really difficult thing that God asked Isaiah to do, and, and the Bible says, marry a promiscuous woman. It actually doesn't say a prostitute, but a lot of the church fathers ha have basically said, yeah, this is basically what God is asking of her. Right? 

JR: Yeah, 

David: of it is this is not, this is not pretty woman, right? This isn't a pretty woman story, which 

JR: Yep. 

David: thinking about. I, you know, I was thinking about it. 

You can't, I couldn't help but think about Pretty Woman when I was reading about Hosea. man, it was a good movie at the time, you know, popular movie. But I'm looking back, I'm like, it was such a [00:21:00] strange story. Who thought that was gonna be a good story that would work? 

JR: I know, I guess they pulled it off, but Oh, yeah. Yeah. But the romanticization of marrying a prostitute. And the funny thing is when I remember just my recollection of the movie, it's almost like they had to build the story to where, uh, who's the act? Uh, Julia Roberts, they had to build the story where Julia Roberts was, wasn't really a full on prostitute. 

She was just kind of dabbling in it. And I think she was new to the game and she was, you know what I mean? They kinda had to make it as stomachable as possible. Right. You know, so, But you're right. That is, it was a strange, narrative. I remember at the time it was kind of a little bit, Questionable whether this is a good idea for a, a movie and I guess it was a hit. So we, you know, it's all in the rear view now,  

David: Yeah. The point is, the story of Jose is not Julia Roberts and Richard Gere, right? This is, you know, I want you to go marry someone who's going to be unfaithful to you, [00:22:00] right? It's not someone who has been unfaithful. It's someone who will be unfaithful to you 

JR: it's funny 'cause I wonder how Hosea, kind of did the interview process. Did God give him a name of somebody or does, does Hosea say, oh, I got the, I got the perfect, this this gal that I went to school with, she's a mess. 

David: God's gotta be talking about Gomer. Yeah, 

JR: There's only one person in town that he could, he could be talking about. 

David: she was a sweetheart in high school, but man, she's gone off the tracks, but, 

JR: Yeah, she went buck wild. Yeah. 

well, I, I was gonna say, to bring it back in a little bit that I love this image because it's just important to see that it's different. Kinda like what we were saying earlier, this is not merely a mistake, right? 

when you break a covenant, it makes you unfaithful. It's not just merely a mistake. If, if breaking the law makes you well, it just makes you guilty. But breaking a covenant makes you unfaithful. And so it's important to see that this is not merely a mistake. This is relational unfaithfulness. 

You know, if, if I steal money [00:23:00] from work, well that's a mistake. And I might be able to say, well, that was just a moment of poor judgment, but if I cheat on my wife after 30 years of marriage, like that is a deep, deep moral failure. And so that's why this image is being used. 

David: I guess it begs the question is, why the heck would God ask, you know, one of his own to do this? And that really gets to the answer there is so you might say, he's not just trying to say, Hey, you're breaking the rules. He's trying to impress upon them, Hey, you are violating a sacred covenant with all of 

JR: Yeah. 

David: that you're doing, And so you can almost picture Hosea, mean, imagine the shock in whatever town he lived in,  

JR: Yeah. 

David: marries Gomer, it's all the whispers and all the talk, but that's the whole point of it, right? Is it's like, well, 

JR: Yeah. 

David: he doing this? Well, that just sets the stage in for Hosea to say, know, you think I've had it rough? You think I'm in for a rough [00:24:00] ride? Like, what about the unfaithfulness of Israel before God? Then it clicks in people and go, oh, wow. Yeah,  

JR: yeah. Well, I thought about this too because the problem isn't that Israel stopped believing in God, The problem is that they started treating him like one option among many. 

David: Mm-hmm. 

JR: gods. And so that's another thing I thought about that is like, yeah, this is a perfect image, of what God's trying to communicate that Israel's doing. 

It's not that they turn their back on God, it's just that he's one, he's just another option. Just like, if you're married and you're like, well, I just wanna see a few women on the side, well, that's not okay. that's a real, real problem. That's a moral failure on your part that you see that, that you see your covenant that way. 

and that's why it was laid out that way. But I, thought that was good to go back to the point that it's not just, a sin or it's not just you're messing up here in this one area. It's like all through you got something deeply wrong with you. if you're okay with the bales and the, [00:25:00] watching your society just be corrupted from top to bottom. 

David: it would be attention grabbing. I, I, I was trying to think of, I, I can't even think of an example today where someone prominent would do something so drastic that the entire culture would go, what the heck's going on? Right? I 

JR: Yeah. 

David: imagine like, Billy Graham all of a sudden, you know, 

JR: Right. 

David: something crazy and people are like, whoa, what just happened here? 

JR: Yeah. This is the very thing that he preaches against. 

David: it 
 

JR: Yeah. 

He lets the tabloids run with it and, and all the headlines happen, and then he, then he steps up to the mic and says, here's why I did this. 

David: All right. So I wanna talk about, the rest of this section too, because I wanna talk about the kids. 'cause there's a lot of going on in the fact that she has three children with him I wanna point out that it's not go marry someone who used to be unfaithful. It's go marry someone who is going to be unfaithful to you, 

JR: Yeah, 

David: a big difference, right? 

And not only 

JR: [00:26:00] sure. 
 

David: but have children with her, 

JR: Yeah. 

David: let's talk about the names of these, uh, children. Said they first had a son and said, call him Jezreel. I will soon punish the house of Jehu. Now I did a little bit of research. First of all, j Jezreel sounds a lot like Israel.  

JR: Okay. 

David: little bit of that calling to mind of like, I'm naming my kid Israel, 

without naming him Israel, but Jezreel was the name of a town associated with the guilt of Ahab and Jezebel, two of the most notorious kings and queens of the north. 

Right? 

JR: Right. Wicked. Yes. 

Talk about the people that did kill the prophets. 

David: yeah. so you mentioned earlier, I think Sodom and Gamo, right? It would be 

JR: Mm-hmm. 

David: I want you to name your first child Sodom. You're like, whoa, I I don't think 

JR: I don't know man. The kids at school are gonna be brutal, picking on that name. Good night. 

David: yeah. 

JR: Yeah. So is Jezreel, was the city town named after Jezebel or is it just kind of I see the association. 

David: no. It was just like. Jezreel and [00:27:00] her name had to be Jezebel. So like the first probably JEZ was similar, but 

JR: Okay. 

David: because of Jezebel.  

JR: No, but that's cool that Jezreel sounds like Israel, but it's sort of like, I don't know if this is where you're going with this, but it's sort of like, uh, a marriage of Jezebel and Israel, you know, Jezreel, 

David: yeah, 

JR: and again, this is my kind of English, looking at through the, my English eyes, but, that's kind of a cool concept, whether that was intended or not. 

It's this unholy marriage of the set apart people of Israel and this wicked queen Jezebel or the, the town that they were from. Jezreel. 

David: yeah, So that's the first kid, it just gets more brutal from here because then they have a daughter and God commands him to name the daughter Lo Ruhama, which means not loved. I mean, you have to laugh about it almost, but I mean, can you imagine naming a kid like not wanted or mistake? 

JR: Yeah. Oops. Yeah. Right. Well it's like, it's just funny 'cause this family is, just becoming a [00:28:00] walking parable as the third one comes along, you know? Yeah. The community is sitting there thinking, oh gosh, here we go again. What's the third one gonna be? ' yeah, it's just so good. 'cause they're just, I mean, they're, they're verdicts, you know, they're not just names. 

David: Yeah. 

JR: They're, calling people out And also, you know, if you're living in this community, you don't just hear. 

Hosea preach a sermon. You don't just hear a message 

David: Hmm. 

JR: you're living with this every day. You're interacting with these kids on a daily basis. These are not massive towns where you don't cross paths with 'em. you're interacting with them all the time. And you know that after the friends and stuff started picking on 'em and making fun of the name, the rest of the people are thinking like, who names their kid that A, but then B, sit there thinking, golly, it's just a constant reminder that lo ruhama there is, is not, that's not just her name. That's a representation of us that we are not loved by Yahweh. And so it's just a constant reminder right in their face as opposed to a proclamation by a prophet or a preacher. 

David: Yeah. It [00:29:00] goes way beyond just a prophecy that he's gonna write out, here's what God has against you. You're right, you see him in the grocery store and you go, Hey, don't ask him his kid's name. Right. so they have a third, and he's called Low on me, which means not my people. 

Which there again, it's like you are no longer people of God. 

JR: Yeah. 

David: this 

JR: Yeah, 

David: walking around is a constant reminder to where I, I think it almost forced the people to go, man, is that true? God has abandoned us. We are not his people anymore. 

JR: love the escalation of it too. 'cause the first one's kind of like a play on words. there's a chance that it's just a bad name and he didn't think this out right. But then, and then not loved. It's like, okay, that's a little bit clear. And then not my people. Well, that's the ultimate insult. 

To the people of God, right? I mean, so you just see this escalation in the naming, 

David: Yeah. And so they, come just a, like you said, almost a walking parable. They're family. anything else you wanna say about this section? 

JR: Okay. So we're just left with this weird situation where you got these three kids that are, [00:30:00] have odd names, and it's like, what do you do with this? 

Right. But one thing I had read, and I don't, I'll have to find the verses. One thing I had read is that, the second two of his three children were actually perhaps, possibly born with another father. yeah. So in chapter two, there in verse four, it says, I will not show my love to her children because they are the children of adultery. Now, it doesn't explicitly say. Yeah, their mother has been unfaithful. 

She's conceived them in disgrace. So it doesn't say which kids are are his and which are somebody else's. But there is the implication that one, or maybe even all of his kids were born under adulterous situations. Right. And so, I think you mentioned earlier, like we don't know when she runs off to be with another man necessarily. 

Just kind of the next chapter she's with another man. but if you kind of read between the lines, it may have happened, you know, during the time that he was having his first kids. 

David: yeah, I didn't pick that up [00:31:00] the first time, but in chapter one, God says, have children with her. So probably the first one is at least his that we don't really know. Right? But you're right. In chapter two there is a pretty overt implication that, hey, these other children aren't even yours. And back in those days, they didn't have DNA tests. 

Right. So it's like, well, we don't really know 

JR: Or Jerry Springer, 

David: Yeah. Or Jerry Springer to solve that mystery for us. 

you're right. That's definitely implied in chapter two that at least some of these children, are not with him. So 

she has started the process then in chapter two, although it's not really laid out as, as such that she has been unfaithful to him as God said she would. 

JR: right. 

David: weird too, because it's like just as God intended, right. But the inevitable was going to happen, right? Like this is what's going to happen when you marry someone who basically has 

JR: Right. 

David: and reputation. 

JR: Well, we've talked about this before, [00:32:00] the, the, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart we struggle with. Did Pharaoh make a bad decision or did God harden his heart? It's almost like, did he have the free will to do it? And you always have this waffling back and forth of, well, no, Pharaoh would've done it. 

It's just that God knew it. And you're like, yeah, but the Bible says that he like, had an active role, I guess, in hardening his heart. And so we have problems with that. But again, if you go back to that biblical pattern of we try to institutionalize something, it becomes corrupt. And so God offers repentance. 

And then if we don't repent, God is going to, interfere. God is gonna send the locust, so to speak. that's kind of what's happening here. You know, it's like, did God intend for Gomer to run off with another man? well, he knew it was gonna happen. and that's why he had Hosea marry her because he knew that this was gonna be the effect. 

So in, in one sense, yeah, he wanted this to happen, but he wanted it to happen as a demonstration, of the collapse. That's about to come. 

David: Yeah. I'm real [00:33:00] tempted to make a Taylor Swift joke here, but 

JR: Taylor Swift joke. Where are you going with that? 

David: Well, it's a bit of like saying, Taylor Swift's got a new boyfriend, and you go, well, we all know that's not gonna work out. Like it doesn't take a profit to know that, although 

JR: Yeah. They're getting engaged or I think they are engaged. Yeah, 

David: Yeah. 

JR: that's right. 

David: it might prove it 

JR: We, 

David: you know, it wouldn't been a going out on that big of a limb to say, yeah, dude, that's not working out right. 

You're 

JR: yeah. 

David: a song on our next 

JR: Here's the next song on our album. Yeah, that's right. This is not gonna end well for you, Well, that's why, that's why Kelsey couldn't leave, man. He's like, look, I don't want to, I don't wanna be forever memorialized in the next banger song. You know, 

David: That's right. Alright, so that brings us then to chapter three where we're basically told that she has left because God's commanding him to go redeem her. So let's let people listen to chapter three verses one through five, and then we can pick the story up.  

The Lord said to me, [00:34:00] go show your love to your wife again, though she's loved by another man and is an adulteress, love her as the Lord loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes. So I bought her for 15 shekels of silver and about a Homer and a let of Bali. 

Then I told her, you are to live with me many days. You must not be a prostitute or be intimate with any man, and I will behave the same way toward you. For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without eod or household Gods. Afterward, the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God, and David their king. 

They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days. 

JR: Okay, so Hosea goes and redeems his wife. And just in this short set of verses, it's kind of cool because he goes and redeems it and then the last verse basically says, or last couple verses, verse four and [00:35:00] five says, uh, this is why this happens this way. Here's the image that I'm painting. You know? So it, it's kind of like self-explanatory because it says for the Israelites here, why did this happen? 

Well, the Israelites are gonna live many days without a king of prince, without sacrifice, stones, you know, and it goes on and explains exactly this is happening, the way it's happened, 

David: that's right. So he picks it up and he says, go show your love to your wife and basically redeem her because she's with another person, he has to go pay 15 shekels. And it's this really, yet strange picture again of like redeeming your own wife, bringing her back, 

which is strange on one hand until you also understand that actually a demonstration of God's love to Israel despite the myriad of ways that they've been unfaithful to God, right? 

JR: No, this is a great image of grace because Hosea here isn't, he's not ignoring [00:36:00] the betrayal, right? It's almost like, and obviously this is foreshadowing to, Christ. He's, he's not ignoring it. He's absorbing it. You see, you know what I'm saying? Like, he's making it his responsibility to pay for his wife's mistakes 

David: Yeah. 

JR: and so I think it's interesting that it's not just a matter of, Hey, go back and get your wife and say, Hey. 

We're married, come back home with me, let's make this work. It's like he has to fork out money, and actually pay for something that was rightfully his to begin with again, It answers that question of, well, why would God send his son to die for our sins? Well, because somebody has to pay, right? Justice demands some kind of payment, in this case, a blood sacrifice. And you can't get around that because I think a lot of times when you don't understand Christianity, it's easy to say, well, why can't, God is God. 

Why can't he just wave his magic wand and say, okay, everybody's forgiven. now everybody can come to heaven. If you believe in me. It's like, why would you go through and send your son to, pay this price? and again, why would [00:37:00] Hosea have to pay money to get his wife back? That was rightfully his to begin with. 

And it's like, it's that image of something has, that a payment has to be made, right? A sacrifice has to be made for, uh, for what? Justice to be completed. And so that's, that, that's the image that they're laying out here. So it don't overlook the, the fact that he had to pay to get her back,  

David: Yeah. And it's the humiliation of having to pay to get your own wife to come home.  

JR: Yeah. 

David: in a weird way, it reminds me of, we were talking about the parable series, we were talking about the prodigal son. Right. And I think you brought up the point that the father runs out meet the son and hugs him and puts his robe on him. And it's almost, I think you made the comment that it's almost like the father was willing to absorb the humiliation of the son. 

JR: Right. 

David: is a more extreme example I think of that even is that 

God is instructing Hosea. Look, as humiliating as [00:38:00] this is, I want you to be the one to go absorb the humiliation of your wife in order to bring her back into the family. 

JR: Yeah. It's almost like a deflection of the shame. yeah, absorbing is the best word. Like I'll take the shame. I will run down and make a fool of myself to the community of, this old man running down in his robes to meet my son so that the community isn't looking at my son saying, oh my gosh, he stinks like pigs. 

And so, yeah, that, that's kind of the same thing. I hadn't thought about that, but that's, that's what Jose is doing. It's like, it's almost like I'm pulling out my wallet and saying, here, this is a transaction.  

David: well, I'm, gosh, I can't help but thinking too, I'm, so, I started reading Anna Corina, which is by Tolstoy. It's one of the classics. And I was like, I need to read more of the classics. So have you read it? 

JR: Oh, goodness. No. 

David: Okay. 

JR: I have read, I, I have read, uh, the Brothers for Amazon. Uh, and so that's tol soy, right? 

David: no, 

JR: so I have read [00:39:00] a Tol soy book. 

David: that's by the other Doki. But yeah, 

JR: Oh, doki. That's right. Okay. Then I haven't read any toy. 

David: Okay. So anyway, this may, uh, does tie in because. I didn't know anything about the book, and I just thought, well, I'll give it a read. And it really is a great book, by the way, and I'm not finished with it yet, so I may be totally down the wrong trail on this one, but the title is called Anna Corina. 

And so I'm thinking, 

JR: Right. 

David: her. She's the hero of the story, right? And it, the first opening chapter, she's actually presented as a very, lovely young woman. She's kind, she helps, I think her sister and her brother-in-law get back together, But then out of it, it's like outta nowhere, at least for me, because I knew nothing about the book. she basically cheats on her husband and then basically runs off with the guy who she's had this affair with and then has a kid with. And I'm like, there was a point in the story where I'm like, what the heck's going on with this story? This is 

JR: I thought she was the, the hero. Yeah. 

David: Right? This is not what I [00:40:00] thought. This is not the story that I thought, We'll see how it all resolved, but I'm suddenly realizing she's not the hero of the story. But anyway, like there's a point at which her husband wants to reconcile with her, he basically, treats her very harshly and he says, you're not gonna embarrass me, but you're gonna stay at the house. 

JR: Yeah. 

David: opposite of this idea of I'm going to absorb your shame and bring you back in. 

JR: yeah. True love kind of absorbs the shame. You're right. 

David: Yeah. 

JR: and you could kind of tell that it's not complete forgiveness. in the book, Anna Corina, if you're gonna hold it over her head, there's consequences. It's, it's, well, we'll get into this when we talk about Israel's exile, 'cause it, you know, it basically says that Israel's gonna go into exile in verse four. 

And so it's kind of this reminder that. 

Israel's exile in this context is a good example of how to understand that forgiveness is not the same as restoration. You know what I mean? Like you can be forgiven, [00:41:00] but you still have to suffer consequences, right? And so restoration, it isn't instant. Forgiveness can be instant, but restoration isn't instant. 

There's like a season when things may, no longer be broken, but they're not completely whole yet. And so to compare to Anna Carina, you've got this husband that takes her back, but then he's holding it over her head. He's constantly reminding her of the, you know, that she was unfaithful and kind of using that as leverage in the re relationship. 

That's not forgiveness. But at the same time there, Israel does go into exile. So There is a price to be paid, and so while there's forgiveness, it's not complete restoration. Restoration takes time. 

David: And in fact, part of that relates, I, I'm gonna back up one verse from what you were talking about verse four, I think this is an interesting verse that starts to get to the pattern. 'cause verse three says, Hosea tells her, you're to live with me many days, you must not be a prostitute. which that's not an unreasonable request, [00:42:00] right? 

JR: Yeah. 

David: Or be intimate with any man and I will behave in the same way toward you. Okay? Now what's going on there? So basically what he's telling her is I'm taking off the street. You're gonna live with me. our marriage, basically what he's saying is, our marriage is gonna be celibate, Because he's like, you're not gonna mess around in me. And he said, I'm gonna behave the same way towards you. Now, to me, starts to bring in the picture of, of Israel. 'cause the very next verse. Is like, he says, this is how it will be for Israel. Right. So what is 

JR: Mm. 

David: here? I think he's saying this is a picture of a barren relationship.  

JR: Yeah. 

David: And 

JR: Yeah. 

David: gosh, we talked about this in one of our, um, fairytale episodes. In fact, I think it's the one even on YouTube. It's on, um, was it sleeping Beauty 

The king and queen 

JR: Yeah. 

David: Right. Which it's not just about the king and queen can't have kids. It's about that culture that the king and queen were [00:43:00] in charge of was no longer producing anything. 

JR: Yeah. It's not productive. Yeah. 

David: a productive culture. 

and that fairytale even, I'll put a link into it because the fairytale, even you brought this up earlier, goes into the idea that when sleeping Beauty falls asleep. Everyone falls asleep. 

JR: Right, 

David: fairytale goes and says, you know, the dogs fell asleep. The horses fell asleep. And it describes how the, I'll always remember how the, uh, kitchen guy boxes the scallion on the ears. 

Right. And even they 

JR: right. 

David: Mid 

JR: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

David: we talked about how that was so strange, like, why does everyone fall asleep? Well, the answer is, is because it's a barren kingdom.  

JR: yeah. 

David: just goes to sleep. No one is paying 

JR: Completely. 

and the same thing is like a culture can be busy and loud and full of movement, but they can still be completely unproductive. I mean, now in the fairytale, they all fall asleep. But the reality is, we, we all know that you can have a, a busy, [00:44:00] vibrant culture that's completely unproductive. 

And I hadn't thought about that, but that's exactly what those verses are saying. we're going to be married again. We're gonna, you're gonna live with me, but we're both gonna be celibate. And so it's like, well, that's like half a marriage, right? That's, that's just the shell of a marriage. 

there's nothing coming from it that's what Israel's gonna have to go through. And it's almost like using the celibacy metaphor. It's almost like, it's saying exile isn't, just punishment, it's like a detox. You know what I mean? I don't know if you, if, if kind of like, you think about that, you gotta take the drug addict and lock 'em in a room and let 'em go through the sweats and let 'em go through all this kind of stuff to get all that junk worked outta your body. You know? 

I wonder if there's some kind of metaphor there too. 

David: No, I think you're right. You said that. There's still repercussions. And so what that verse three, I think is forming the picture of is you're gonna come live with me, And you're not gonna go out. So she's in exile and that's what's gonna happen to Israel. And while you are in [00:45:00] exile, we are going to be celibate. 

And that's the barrenness that Israel's going to experience when they're in exile, nothing about your culture anymore is going to be productive. It's going, it's not going to be what regenerating itself, right? Because you're in 

JR: Right. 

David: I just think it's a 

JR: Yeah. 

David: picture and where you really start to see the pattern unfold. 

JR: you're right. That's cool to go back to the fairytale because that's what barrenness represents. Anytime you have a king and queen that's barren. It's a kingdom. it's a culture that's not producing anything new. And so that's why it makes sense that everybody falls asleep when sleeping. 

Beauty pricks her finger. Right. everything shuts down, yeah. And it's the same thing here. 

David: Okay, so then several chapters in Hosea are these prophetic oracles. And this is, again, we're starting to see this in a lot of the prophets now, that it doesn't really push the story along, but it's given you context then for what these prophecies mean, 

JR: Yeah. I don't know if you got this idea. ' 'cause you know, for the [00:46:00] rest of the 14 chapters, it's just really poetic. It's. Repetitive. It's, it kind of just goes on and on as, as I read it. That was my take on it. It's like, goodnight. We're just gonna go more and one more chapter about how barren everything is. 

And, and so, I mean, there is a pattern to it, or there is a, there is an outline to it, but, I was trying to think of why it just drags on and on and on, and again, to go back to job, why that drags on and on and on. And I think it's kind of try kind of artistic, it's trying to be artistic. It's trying to, it's trying to create memorable lines, it's like lyrics of a song stuck in your head that a certain line will pop into your head at the right time. And so I think what. Jose is doing here is he's trying to kind of poetically wax and, and drag this out and kind of say exactly what's going on. 

here's why you're, the culture's collapsing. But in those chapters, I thought it was interesting. There's a couple like really sharp lines that are memorable that everybody knows. so it [00:47:00] seems to drag on and on. But the midst of these verses, are these, you know, these one-liners that you've heard of, For I desire mercy, not sacrifice and acknowledgement of God rather than burn offerings. 

Like that's a recognizable verse. Or in Hosea eight it says they sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. So there, so again, it, it kind of drags on and on, but in there, these really kind of gold nuggets that are easily, I don't know, these one-liners that are used over and over that are recognizable. It's just, you kind of gotta go through it. 

But I, I imagine the people at the time probably quoted the Book of Hosea a lot. I mean, it became a punchline to a situation. there's lots of, uh, I don't know, memorable lines that Hosea throws out there. 

before we get into the kind of the overall repentance and restoration  

David: And some of the reason they're probably memorable is because you read 'em in the New Testament sometimes we don't even pay attention to how many times something outta the prophets is quoted by, you [00:48:00] know, Paul or Peter or Jesus himself. And it's, you're like, well, there's the context right there. 

There's that line I've, I've heard Jesus say, or something like that, you know? 

but I imagine what Hosea. Has done now. So the first three chapters then been playing out whole drama within his own marriage and family, right? And so chapter four verse one, the next several chapters are these things that God has against Israel. In fact, Hosea four, one says, hear the word of the Lord you Israelites, because the Lord has, uh, this charge to bring against you. So I think what I think what has happened is Hosea is saying, now I have your attention. And the fact that he has 

JR: Yeah, 

David: and at least some of 'em are probably not even his and this marriage, and then he went and redeemed his wife. It's like this has been several years, right? 

JR: sure. 

David: you 

JR: Sure. 

David: a picture of this. 

It's like, okay, now I have your attention. Right? Hosea's whole life has become a reality TV [00:49:00] show. So yes. 

JR: Yeah. 

David: You have our 

JR: Yeah. 

David: right? And so now 

JR: Yeah. 

David: is saying, okay, now here's what God has to say to you. that's being committed to this role. Right? But I think that's what's happening here. And so the next several chapters are all of these things that you were just talking about. And we're not really gonna go through them just for time's sake, because, couple of highlights though. You said some of this, I desire mercy, not sacrifice. chapter four, verse 10, he says they will eat, not have enough. They will engage in prostitution, but not flourish. I thought that was a cool line too, because he's 

JR: Yeah. 

David: Israel's worship. 

JR: Mm-hmm. 

David: that idea of you will engage in prostitution but not flourish. There's the pattern again. Right? the barrenness.  

JR: Yeah, unproductive prostitution. You're doing the act, but nothing comes from it. Yeah. 

David: right. Old wine and new wine take away their understanding. So these kind of prophetic that he's bringing out now that he has their attention, and there's several of these through there, but that's kind of what happens in the next several [00:50:00] chapters. Anything on that 

JR: Yeah. Oh gosh. Well, this is where I said at the beginning, it's like, man, if we get into this, if we get into some of these details, it's gonna take forever. And it's almost like you just gotta back off and say, okay, let's stick with the 30,000 foot view, because there's 14 chapters of this stuff, 

David: Yeah. 

JR: but it's worth reading. 

So with with that image, I, I would encourage people to sit down and read it. It, it doesn't take too long. I mean, took me, what, an hour or so, uh, sit down and read it with that idea of the double meaning that you've got, Hosea marrying a prostitute, being a metaphor for Israel, prostituting out to other gods, and kind of look for that, that movement of order to chaos and the destroying the, the system and building it back up and restoration. 

If you have those images in your mind, some of these things are gonna pop out to you. Just like you said, that you'll engage in prostitution, but it won't flourish. It's like those lines pop out to you once you understand the kind of deeper metaphors that are going on, the deeper pattern that's [00:51:00] playing out. 

David: Okay. So we're gonna skip ahead then to Hosea chapter 11 verses one through four. And again, we'll let people listen to this and then we'll make a couple comments on it.  

 When Israel was a child, I loved him and out of Egypt I called my son, but the more they were called, the more they went away from me. They sacrificed to the bales and they burned incense to images. It was I who taught E frame to walk, taking them by the arms, but they did not realize it was I who healed them. 

I led them with chords of human kindness, with ties of love. To them. I was like one who lifts a little child to the cheek and I bent down to feed them. 

David: Okay. So verses one through four, chapter 11, I don't know if picked up on this, but is actually one of the turning points in the book of Hosea because Hosea has gone on and on and on about, you know, this is what God has against you. Um. And remember the context of his relationship, right? His wife, it's left him come back. 

Children that aren't [00:52:00] his. when you get to Hosea 11, one versus one through four, this is almost a very tender section of a father suddenly playing with his children, right? And just read 

JR: Yeah. 

David: again. Israel was a child, I loved him. And out of Egypt I have called my son. So that phrase right there is a Messianic reference, right? It's all 

JR: Right, 

David: like out of Israel. I've called my son, but remember one of his children was named basically Israel Jezreel, So 

JR: right. 

David: when Israel was a child, I loved him, And another one of his children was called loved, right? 

JR: yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

David: So then it goes on, it says, but they, they were called away. They sacrificed to the bales. It was I who taught E frame to walk. I mean, that's a great picture of a father, right? 

taking them by the arms, but they didn't realize it. and then I led them with the cords of human kindness. 

So what this is doing here in this section, and what follows actually is you're [00:53:00] starting to see the tenderness of the father return to these children this is almost the heart of God saying, no. I remember playing with Israel as a child, right? 

I taught Ephraim to walk. held their 

JR: right. 

David: through all these things, and 

JR: Yeah. 

David: people to miss that really tender picture in this part of the prophecy. 

JR: Well, I also wonder if in the original Hebrew, if those names would've popped up. I mean, we made the connection between Jezreel and Israel, but then, not loved Lou Roham. not my people. Alami. wonder if those words are even kind of restated in the positive. 'cause He does say they are loved, you know, as opposed to not loved. 

Or you are now my people again, 

David: Yeah, 

JR: because of this image of children, it makes you wonder if, if it was more obvious, if you spoke Hebrew, if that would pop a little bit more. Now we have to dig for it, but, yeah. That's interesting. I, I didn't make that connection. 

David: it could be because [00:54:00] you know not my people, and suddenly saying, now I'm calling you my son, not loved. Now I love him. You know, Jezreel, it's like when Israel was a child. So it's almost in that very, one verse is almost starting to reverse the names of his children. Yeah. So you almost see the, flip side of each of those names in this very one verse. Right. Actually, I did love you. You are my people. You are my son. And then in verse nine, he even says, I will not carry out my fear Sanger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again for I am God and not a man, the holy one among you. I will not come against their cities. So this is basically after several chapters of like, God's really angry and he is gonna destroy, you know, he'll be exiled. Uh, like this is, that repentance part, again the pattern back in Joel. Right? the day of the Lord, and here's your chance to repent. 

if you choose the path of repentance, God is already e extending his handout saying, you know, how can I [00:55:00] treat you like this? I, I'm not gonna destroy you. You are my people. You are my son. I do love you, right? 

JR: Yeah, And it's like he's saying, here's how, here's how restoration can look. We can be a family again. You know, you can be my son again. calling back those kind of infant moments, you know, where he helped him walk and things like that. It's almost like he's just pulling out the old VHS tapes of Israel, toddling around and saying, this is the way it can be again. 

You know? But you're gonna have to repent and restoration can happen and we can kind of go back to that moment. 

David: Yeah.  

JR: it's funny because that's, the prodigal son, that's what the son wanted to come back to. 

The son wanted to come back as a slave. He's like, look, I've, I've given up sonship. And the father is like, no, let's be a family again. You're gonna be my son. And that's where he does the signate ring. So it's kind of this retelling of the prodigal son, or I should say the prodigal son is a retelling of the Old Testament story of Hosea. 

And it is, it's just a great image there. 

David: true. There's a lot [00:56:00] of touchpoints between the prodigal son and this and hosea's prophecies here. 

okay, so we'll wrap this up with Hosea explicitly now calling them to repentance. And this the last section we'll let people listen. TOA 14 one through four.  

Return Israel to the Lord your God. Your sins have been your downfall. Take words with you and return to the Lord. Say to him, forgive all our sins and receive us graciously that we may offer the fruit of our lips. Assyria cannot save us. We will not mount war horses. We will never again say our gods to what our own hands have made for in you. 

The fatherless find compassion. I will heal their waywardness and love them freely. For my anger has turned away from them. 

JR: Okay. Before we get into the call of repentance there in verse three, it says, Assyria cannot save us. And we mentioned earlier, you mentioned earlier that the Assyrians eventually ended up coming in and taking over. 

Was it the northern kingdom [00:57:00] or all of Israel? 

David: Northern 

JR: The northern kingdom right so why is that line in there? Assy cannot save us. They're the enemy. Right? 

David: Yeah. And it says, cannot save us. We will not mount war horses. in some ways I think they had so abandoned their own culture. I wonder if there were people who were saying, they're the cool culture right now. Would it be so bad? 

JR: yeah, it'd be better if they just took us over. Yeah. That's like the voices of saying, I'd rather be back in Egypt where at least we had food and, I didn't mean to get you off track, but that popped in my head. 

I was like, yeah, that's kind of weird. Assyria cannot save us. They're the ones that end up taking 'em over.  

David: And it hadn't, the kingdom hadn't fallen yet. So maybe Jose is actually picking up on some people who are saying, you know, Hey, there'd be worse things to be annexed into Assyria. You know, they got all the cool Baal temples and,  

JR: Yeah. That's just kind of, that's a strange line. 

But anyway, you know, this is, Jose's final invitation to repent, right in these verses. 

David: yeah. So this is the call to repentance. [00:58:00] This is, you know, God will take us back, if we repent. you know, there's still time. And again, it's that day of the Lord moment that in this case, we know now doesn't really happen because Assyria does come in and take 'em over. other thing to talk about. With chapter 14 is that we don't really hear anything else about what happened to Jose and his family. You know, Gomer, the wife, the children. So it kind 

JR: Yeah. 

David: it out there hanging  

JR: Yeah. We've talked about this in other stories. it's like the story doesn't resolve because it's not about them. well, it's about us to some degree, because again, this is a metaphor for the broader pattern. It's, it's asking the question, are we gonna return or aren't we? The question is intentionally left unanswered because this is their opportunity to respond to it, 

David: Because the situation hasn't resolved. 

it's kind of like, hey, repentance. Well, to be determined, and as for Jose and his family, well, maybe part two, we'll see what happens. But that's to be determined too. You know? 

JR: Yeah. Well, we [00:59:00] saw this when we talked about Jonah, that Jonah kind of stops abruptly. you don't know whether Jonah repented, it's just that he, it, it's, it's this weird stop it, and I think we even mentioned it on that podcast, it's almost like watching one of those movies and right when you think you're about, at the end it just pops up and you got the credits and you're like, wait. 

What happened, you know, it's like it's, that's, it's done that way on purpose. so that you sort of say, well, the rest is up to you. You know, you take it from here, what do you think happened? And it's inviting the reader, well in this case, it's inviting the Israelites to say, what are you gonna do? 

How are you gonna answer that question? Are you gonna return or aren't you? and I guess we get the answer because they fell to Assyria, you know, shortly after. So  

David: yeah, and unfortunately it may give us a clue of what happened to Hosea's family. Who knows, if his family is kind of the drama playing out right before Israel's eyes and they end up falling to the Assyrians, like, who knows? maybe it didn't end happily ever after for Hosea, I've kind of [01:00:00] always known this, but I'm really struck by what a living hell Jose had to go through to play out this drama before his people Right at the calling of God. I mean, think about it. It's easy to say, well, this is a metaphor and all that, but I, I don't know. I like, this is what Hosea was willing to do. Right. And it 

JR: Yeah. Somebody had to live out that metaphor. Right, 

David: after year after year. yeah. I like what you said at the end where we're led to believe. It probably didn't end up happily ever after for Hosea, either because it didn't for Israel. 

JR: you just wonder if I, I mean, I don't know if, if Hosea was like, as this drama was progressing for everybody to see, like you said, the reality show. I wonder if he's like using opportunities to say, to clarify that this is a metaphor for you, or, or he just kind of like, humiliatingly lived all this out and then got up there at the end and said, Hey, this whole thing, all this nonsense that you guys are talking about, that all the papers are talking about [01:01:00] this is all on purpose. 

This was all staged to communicate an idea to create a mirror for you guys to look in and ask yourselves the question,  

David: I just have this picture 'cause we started out by saying. Hosea was the outsider, right? most of the prophets were outsiders because they had to speak to the culture, to the king, And so I, I just had this picture, I don't know of sometimes you get the idea kind of like John the Baptist, right? Like it's the crazy dude out in the wilderness, Who lives at the edge of the city who's always 

JR: Yeah. 

David: stuff and everyone's like, ah, just ignore him. He's the crazy guy. And yet everyone's still strangely paying attention to what he's gonna do next.  

JR: Yeah, that's kind of true. I I, I hadn't thought about the John the Baptist connection, but you're right. he's definitely intentionally the outsider and it talks about his crazy hair and that he ate Locust and honey and, yeah, he was kind of a spectacle, but at the same time, he was using that maybe, I, I won't say to get attention, like in the, [01:02:00] in the Instagram TikTok way, but he's using that to draw attention to a broader, pattern, something like that. 

It's, it's, yeah, he's trying to draw attention through that, but in that whole craziness, that's why people are paying attention to ' em. 

David: Well, I think Jonathan Pau has talked about like, the court jester or something, and he talks about Kanye West a lot. Like, Hey, attention to Kanye West, because whatever he is gonna do next is nuts, but it's gonna have some kind of cultural mirror, right? 

JR: No, that's a good example. It's not like you're supposed to look at him and say, I want to emulate him, 

David: right. 

JR: you should pay attention to what he's saying,  

David: so I wonder if that's kind of more of the, the profit guy of like, he's doing all this and people are like, I can't, it's like an accident, right? I can't look away. I've gotta pay attention to what he's doing, even though this reputation of being kind of the weird guy, the crazy guy who's, well, gosh, he went and married a prostitute right Now she's 

JR: Yeah. 

David: with him and everyone knows it, but he seems to be [01:03:00] clueless, and it's like, no, he's not clueless. 

pay attention this is all gonna make sense one day. I don't know, I, I 

JR: Yeah. Well, 

David: of view the life of Hosea. Maybe not compare 

JR: it's kind of. 

David: West, but. 

JR: Right. I don't know about that, but it is, it's sort of that fun house mirror that's absurd and you laugh at it at first, but at the same time it is a reflection of you. It's just distorted. it's like this is what you could become to some degree. they are a cultural mirror. 

It's not meant to be necessarily emulated, but it is meant to be. pondered as, where are we going as a culture, where are we heading that this is, that this is our reflection, it's not that it's supposed to be perfect or meant to be exactly accurate. 

It's, it's intentionally distorted so that we pay attention and, and repent basically. And what we talked about last, week, repentance means turning around and going the other direction. 

David: Yeah. Alright, so to wrap this up, we've talked about a lot of the patterns already, but is there any more [01:04:00] patterns you wanna bring out or do you want to of what's the explicit pattern that you see going on here that Jose has done? 

JR: Well, we talked about the overall biblical pattern, and I just think that this is kind of a smaller pattern within the pattern. It's that kind of breakdown, collapse, repentance, restoration, something new emerges, and he, and that's, that's the pattern I see in this. 

David: Yeah. I really think there's something to, as a side pattern to that, to go alongside it. I really think there's something to the whole idea of the barrenness of the relationship. Or the conceiving outside of proper bounds. Right. And that is a picture of a culture, And so, I don't know. I was thinking more about that. It's not difficult to see today going on where you go, this is not. Right? This is not a healthy reproducing culture that we live in, and not just US culture. You can talk about a lot of cultures around, Hosea I think helped me [01:05:00] see that aspect of the pattern really through his writings is this idea of the unproductive culture. And, you know, I, I can't help, but, I should, it's been in the news. I think the New York Times ran something recently about people who regretted getting married or people who regretted having kids. And you can see the cultural pressure to not get married. Don't limit your options. Don't tie yourself 

JR: Yeah.  

David: I can't help after reading Hosea of going, man, we are pushing an unproductive, barren culture onto people. 

JR: well, you see it in the demographic collapse kind of all over the world, but it's, it's focused on developed countries and I think it's that way for a reason that you see this kind of demographic collapse, but we got, uh, my three-year-old granddaughter, a wedding dress for her birthday. It's like a dress up. Thing and has a veil. And we did that because she loves playing wedding. And you, you know, on your phone you have to get the wedding March, she'll get dressed up and then come marching out and she'll marry her [01:06:00] dad, right? 

Or, or whatever. But anyway, she's enamored by this idea of getting married one day. But I thought about that and I'm, I'm guessing that over time our culture is gonna make her feel silly for looking forward to that one day, because that's kind of the message you get. man, why would you wanna tie yourself down? 

Or why would you wanna limit yourself? again, it goes into this unproductive nature of just a culture that's not productive, a culture that's declining. And, you see this kind of all over the world. 

David: Yeah. And it's not only just in like marriage relationships and having kids Right. Too, it's literally maybe economically productive, a culture that's gotten lazy. Right. That doesn't produce anything anymore for that complaint. You can see it in, I was thinking about it. You can see it in art, you can see it in television and movies. art that is no longer willing to be Well, prophetic, right? Because they're trying to be 

JR: Yeah, Yeah. I saw that particularly in movies, where [01:07:00] movies and music used to be rewarded for creative risk. Right. And now they're just kind of punished for not conforming and, you know, I don't wanna get too political, but there's, you know, the new, what is it, The Emmys where you can't be nominated for an Academy Award unless you have this many, minorities or this many women. 

it just turns into this weird thing where the very institution that pushed creative risk is now pushing conformity and limiting that, that creative risk. And it was like, that's what art is. It's supposed to push the boundaries, but now we're putting guardrails around it saying, well, we're not even gonna consider you if you don't hit all these check boxes. 

I mean, how many times have you, I'm not even gonna bring up certain movies, but I'll watch movies that are 20 years old. You know, something that I kind of enjoyed when I was younger and I'll, bring it back up. And while I'm watching it, I'm thinking they could never make this movie again today. 

David: Yeah, 

JR: This movie would absolutely not work. And it's nothing in particular, I guess it's just that I get this vibe when I'm [01:08:00] watching the movie. I'm like, there's no way that they could make this today. 

It's just too politically incorrect. And to go back to the thing about comedy, it's like, well, that's what comedy does. It's supposed to push the envelope. It's supposed to find the chink in the armor and, mess with it. And if you can laugh at yourself and get a laugh out of it and say, yeah, we do do that as men, or we do do that as women or whatever. 

If we can't laugh at it, then we turn into, that king that kills the jester. It's like this is all a bad sign. And that's kind of where our art and our movies, at least, that's where it's gone. 

David: Yeah, I'm watching a TV series right now. but it's about 15 years old now on Netflix. And I'm just surprised repeatedly throughout the series of subject matter that they're willing to tackle. And I think thinking the same thing. 

I'm thinking they would never tackle this today if they remade this show.  

JR: Yeah. 

David: that, that's part of the prophetic voice of art is that idea of, whoa, they just hit on something that made me think a little bit, [01:09:00] that made me squirm or made me chuck a little bit, but also made me uncomfortable. 

Right. That's the prophetic, gosh. That's the prophetic voice. That's Jose's whole life. Right. 

JR: Yeah. 

David: so I don't know when you lose that Yeah. In your culture, then your culture is becoming. I was trying to think of a way to really say the pattern. I don't know, I'll give it a shot, but it's something like when a culture becomes self-centered and focus on maybe their own amusement, right? 

Self gratification, then it is no longer a culture that is undergoing healthy We don't care about the next generation. We don't care about this. It's all about just our own indulgences. that I think is a subtle pattern in Hosea and that's why I think Hosea could see the culture and go, this is a culture that's ripe for collapse and I'm gonna give them an opportunity to repent. But it ain't looking good right [01:10:00] now. 

JR: Yeah. You don't have to be a prophet to see, like we talked about earlier, the demographic collapse and say, this is not going in a good direction. What's that term? The, Replenishment rate or something like that. I forget what it is, but we're well below that. our demographic is gonna decline, and unless we turn that around, that's gonna cause all kinds of problems, not just culturally, economically, it's, well, again, it's, it's, it's the laundry list of things that are gonna go wrong, and we're gonna see it happen sooner rather than later, unless we turn around, unless we go a different direction. 

David: Yeah. And from what I knew of Hosea previously, you know, I knew about the part about marrying the prostitute. I just, I had never read that much into it before, before we started this series. go, yeah, I see the pattern now and there's a lot going on. And Hosea is the, he was the art of his day that made people squirm and made people like uncomfortable and, and say, yeah, I don't wanna run into [01:11:00] that guy at grocery store. 

You know, 'cause it just makes me uncomfortable. Right.  

JR: I don't want to ask what his kid's name mean again. I just like, I'm just not going there. Right. Well, it's kind of to wrap this up, I mean, I kind of look at Hosea is not necessarily about a God who's angry, although he is. It's about a God who refuses to walk away. And I think that's what we can grab from this, And one thing I thought about, 'cause you know, you and I like to talk about the way the ancients understood this. I know I've mentioned this before. But this is not what other nations expected from their gods. Right. I know that. I know that this is not a message to pagan nations per se, but I wonder if this story made it outside the pagan cultures and how they would've received it. 

Like, do you think that they would've seen a weak God in Israel? Do you think that they would hear about this Yahweh God and think, God, what kind of God does that? My God would've zapped us down. Trust me. You know, Zeus would've thrown some lightning bolts, but you have a God that's actually gonna redeem you [01:12:00] after you've broken this covenant commitment and welcome you back in. 

Like, I wonder how Pagan culture saw it. 

David: I don't think it would've made a lot of sense to them in some ways, because You never hear stories of Baal how much he loves his people. Right. In fact, the Greeks myths, when you talk about Zeus, it's like people were annoyance to Zeus or women were things to be used, If you were 

JR: Right? Yeah, sure. 

David: didn't really about the people, right?  

JR: Right. I think we mentioned this in the parables, that the parables were obviously being spoken to a Jewish, and a Gentile culture. And so the Gentiles listening would be thinking, man, that's not the way our Gods work. 

I don't know. I put that lens on this story and thought, yeah, I wonder what the Pagan cultures thought about that. we look at it now as, oh, that's, that's clearly a God who loves us. 

But I wonder if other people would look at that and think, man. what kind of pushover God do you have that would allow something like that to [01:13:00] take place without absolutely just striking you dead.  

David: Yeah, I think it was probably pretty unheard of among the bacon gods. Really? 

JR: Anyway, that was just kind of my final thought. I was like, yeah, that's kind of, I, I don't know. I, I just wonder what other nations thought about that, but you're right. It's certainly not what their gods would've done. 

David: No,  

JR: Okay. Well, do you have any other thoughts? 

David: Uh, no, I don't think so. I, I'll just say that next time we're doing Micah. So I think Micah, Okay. Micah, seven chapters. That's not bad. so yeah, read ahead if you want to. we'll talk about Micah next time. 

And one more thing I will say, because we've said this on several episodes as we wrap up, is that if you want to easy way to. with us. You can just hit that text us with questions at the beginning of the show notes. But we've always said that we can't respond via that way. Well, our hosting platform has now made it possible for us to respond so we can respond. 

It will 

JR: Cool. 

David: [01:14:00] response, but we can respond and you know, we'll, you can always email us with a lengthier question if you want, really some back and forth between us, but we'd love to hear from you that way too. 

JR: Yeah, we can pick it up on email or another message board, so that'll work. Yeah. Good, 

David: yeah. 

JR: good deal. 

David: All right.  

If this episode got you thinking, you'll definitely wanna check out our latest deep dive on Rumble Stilting over on YouTube. It's not just a strange fairy tale about a little man on a spinning wheel. It's a story about the power of naming the problem and what happens when you finally do. 'cause here's the truth, you can't confront what you can't name. 

We break down the symbolism, the absurdity, and the moment everything turns when chaos loses its grip, the second it's brought into the light. So head over to YouTube, search, Navigating An Ancient Faith, and watch our Rumpelstiltskin episode. Once you see it, you'll never hear the story the same way again.