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Neurodivergent Mates
“Neurodivergent Mates is a podcast delving into Neurodiversity and Mental Health, hosted by neurodivergent professional – Will, the ADHD and Dyslexic host. Will candidly shares his personal experiences, discussing topics like relationships, dating, addiction, trauma, sex, education, careers, parenting, the workplace, and more.”
Neurodivergent Mates
Coming to understand my neurodivergence - Jessica McGann
On the next episode of Neurodivergent Mates, I’ll be joined by Jessica McGann to discuss her experiences growing up with learning difficulties and ADHD. We’ll dive into her personal journey, including what it was like struggling in school, the impact of those challenges, and her path to an ADHD diagnosis.
Jessica will also share her experiences with medication and offer advice for others facing similar challenges.
Tune in to learn more about her story and discover where you can connect with Jessica and her work!
Questions
-Tell us a bit about yourself
-Tell us a bit about your work
-What was it like growing up and struggling in school
-What effect has that had on you
-When were you diagnosed with ADHD?
-What was your experience trying medication?
-What advice would you give to others similar to you?
-Where can people connect with you and your work?
All episodes are brought to you by neurodiversityacademy.com
To check out more episodes, visit all our social media platforms or check us out where you listen to all your podcasts.
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We're live.
Speaker 2:You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates. Hello and welcome to another episode of Neurodivergent Mates. My name's Will Wheeler and today I've got a special guest all the way from Toronto in Canada, Jessica McGann, to talk to us about coming to Understanding my Neurodivergence, Jessica. What's going on, my friend?
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, just wrapped off of a day of work here in Toronto, it's Friday night, so ready to dive into some fun conversations with you before kicking off the weekend.
Speaker 2:What are you doing? So? Are you going out tonight?
Speaker 1:Am I going out? I'm meeting up with some friends, yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice, like, are you going somewhere? Are you going to someone's house? What's the deal?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're just meeting up at a friend's house and chit-chatting Very casual. I'm definitely not hitting the clubs or the bars like I used to in my younger years. Just chill and relax and more socializing.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. As you get older it's like that is our club Just going to our mate's house and having a few drinks. Or when you get even older, it's like just sitting at home and having a few drinks. Or when you get even older, it's like just sitting at home and having a drink on your own is, um, that's equivalent to that, then you know.
Speaker 1:But I have definitely noticed as I get older I'm much more uh content with being on my own, like a night in by myself, just cozied up with a movie like sold, sold it was so funny, right?
Speaker 2:because, um, I saw, I saw a picture um of someone's like it's like a meme, and it was this picture of someone sleeping and it says my way of saving money these days. And I'm like, yes, true, you know I should be sleeping more, you know yes staying in is a great way to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, totally, or trying to find ways to be able to save money, like watch Netflix or whatever that is, but we should really get stuck into this. So what we'll do just before we do start, I'll do a little bit of housekeeping. So, if you haven't checked us out before, please subscribe, like and follow to all of our social media pages. We're available on TikTok, facebook, instagram, x, Twitch, youtube and LinkedIn, and please check us out at wherever you listen to your podcasting platforms. You can check us out there.
Speaker 2:Please subscribe to us, rate the show. The more you do, the better for the algorithm it is. Also, if you haven't already done so, please check out the work we're doing at neurodiversityacademycom. We'd really appreciate your support. Also, just a little bit of a warning Some discussions we may be triggering. If you need help, please reach out to a loved one or call emergency services. We are not doctors. This is a space for sharing experience and strategies and if you have any questions during the podcast, please pop it into the live session which we're currently on at the moment, and if it's a good question, we'll, uh, throw it up. What do you reckon, jess?
Speaker 1:yeah, happy to take, uh, some answers from the, from the viewers from the viewers.
Speaker 2:Hopefully we get some people through. Sometimes we do. We've had some people go. Man, I'm sitting on a train listening to you. It's morning, wherever we are, and it's like, yeah, cool, you know, but but awesome stuff, you know what? Let's get stuck into this, because this isn't about me, this is about you. You know, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know you're from Toronto, but let the viewers know a little bit more about who you are.
Speaker 1:I feel like that question is always such a difficult question and as you get older, it's like my personality and who I am and how I define myself is just ever changing and evolving, but on like a on a surface, basic level. For the purposes of this, I'm a coach. I work with creative professionals who are in film and television on stress management and their own mental well-being while working in such a crazy industry. Um, I'm a tv producer myself. I work in unscripted um television, so that's competition series. You might have seen some of them, like all-around champion blown away, uh, big brother canada.
Speaker 2:Currently I'm doing a discovery show, so that's really fun so are these like reality tv shows type of thing, so unscripted? Is that what you mean by unscripted?
Speaker 1:yes, unscripted meaning uh, reality shows. But I'd like to clarify for anyone watching I don't do, I've never done a reality uh show like um or something, something that's like personality based where, or like housewives, where it's about relationships. The shows I produce are more so competition based where there's like personality based or like Housewives, where it's about relationships. The shows I produce are more so competition based where there's like stakes built in. So Can I ask?
Speaker 2:can I ask with those right? So I had a friend of mine who was doing the Big Brother here in Australia right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he was saying that what you do see on TV is completely different to what's actually going on. So sometimes producers may try and get certain things started, but they may film certain parts and then they'll use that part to look as if it's something different. Is that correct? Like, say, for example, we might see someone have an argument, but it's really got nothing to do with what they're what they're framing it as show, if that makes sense I'm sure that does take place, like I know that has happened.
Speaker 1:But I don't think it's applicable to the type of shows that I work on, in the sense that there is built in stakes. People are in a competition, typically in my world, aiming to achieve something or win something. Those stakes are already high. We don't really need to fabricate drama in those areas. But for those personality shows they'll do something called a Franken edits where they will splice things. They'll take things as small as what and cut it into other pieces, so that would be called frankenediting.
Speaker 1:But things like big brother, canada or competition shows, oftentimes that's not even necessary. The drama is real, it's happening and nothing needs to be fabricated because the stakes are actually there does that make it easier for you? You know for my um morality. I think it does like I don't know if I could produce a show that is preying on people's mental unwellness or um pain to create drama. I like producing shows where it's there, like I don't need to manipulate people. I'd rather support people on the journey than try and yeah, do you.
Speaker 2:Do you guys have um? So we have a show here in australia called married at first sight. Oh yeah, do you have that?
Speaker 1:we don't have that show, but I've watched your show of it. Oh really, it's wild, oh my God.
Speaker 2:It's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever watched. It's such good rubbish yeah but you could just like tell that the producers have gone in there and said look what we want to do.
Speaker 1:We want to make some drama, so we want this to happen and we want this, and it just seems so fake uh, sometimes if a show is overly produced you can tell that's where you get, like the ick, when you feel like I found um love island, usa this past season. It was so fascinating to watch as an audience because there was so much drama, but you could tell that those producers were working their butts off to create that drama with how they were producing those competitions, how they were producing those conversations or those dates.
Speaker 2:It was really aggressive producing and from my point of view at least, wow, and would you say like with, say, your coaching and all of that? We say some of these producers, it is high stake type of work because you've got to produce numbers, so it's stressful, there's so much money involved, there's so much stress and pressure involved.
Speaker 1:I mean, in most film and tv workers are freelancers to start and the industry has just not been doing its best. It's really struggling right now. So a lot of people are feeling extensive amounts of time unemployed, financial stress, but then also when you're on a show and the deadlines are tight and the money is high, there's just a lot of pressure. So I really struggled with navigating it when I first entered and so teaching people the skills that I learned that have made this industry so much more sustainable just from these life skills, is just one of my passions for sure, yeah, I think I think it's.
Speaker 2:And you know, you know I I often think about, say, child stars. You know these kids are coming into this industry and we often see these child stars really struggling later in life, type of thing, because you know what is in place for these people. It just seems to be money, money, money. Yeah, no, you don't work for this anymore. See you later, type of thing.
Speaker 1:But it's also you know who's supporting them, who's there to be by their sides and take care of them. And, yeah, they're put into an adult workspace at such a young age. And then if you're on camera and you're getting the judgments and opinions of strangers from all over the world, that's going to affect you for sure. I mean, most recently we saw I think his name was Liam from one direction just recently.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I was actually about to mention that, you know addiction and stress like they're prevalent in these industries.
Speaker 1:If we do not have coping mechanisms that we can lean on that are healthy, we will lean to those unhealthy skills like drugs and alcohols, because they numb us, they make us feel better immediately. So a lot of film and TV workers are very susceptible to that path because you need quick fixes, because oftentimes your days are long, your recovery time is short and the pressure is surmountable. So those are really easy things and that's kind of what I have no idea about this young gentleman's life or pressures or anything. But it sounds like there were drugs and alcohol involved in this event and I can only imagine the mental space.
Speaker 2:Well, well, it's interesting we're talking about this because he's actually he was adhd as well. So you know, yeah, so there's a a lot of who knows. Was he still on it? You know from what? From what I've heard and I don't know the full picture, but like, I think he was very heavily intoxicated on something. I don't know if that's some type of drugs. So if you're on certain ADHD medication and mixing it with a whole bunch of other stuff, with a whole bunch of other things going on as well, it's a recipe for disaster, right there.
Speaker 1:Oh see, well, I know we'll probably get to this later, but I just recently started ADHD medicine and I have no like is it bad to mix it with alcohol or drugs?
Speaker 2:Oh, I have no idea. Yeah, I don't need look, look, I think there's probably something. And look, obviously I'm no expert on this, but I think that's definitely something you'd need to talk to your doctor about, totally, um, you know, and say that they'll probably say, within moderation, um, but you know it's different because it's not like an antibiotic, it's a long-term kind of medicine.
Speaker 1:Wasn't flagged me, but um, it's actually well, we'll get to it later, but uh yeah yeah, yeah, no, that it is interesting.
Speaker 2:It is interesting. But um, I was gonna say, um, tell us a little bit about the work you do, but you've already sort of spoken about it, so I don don't think we'll go into that. But you know, like we said, you know, when I reached out to you I said, hey, look, what do you want to talk about? And you said, a big thing you want to talk about is, you know, especially your struggles through school, all of that type of stuff. So what was it like growing up and struggling in school? So did you want to share with the audience, like maybe some? So obviously your your ADHD and there was some learning difficulties on top of that as well.
Speaker 1:So I was diagnosed earlier on in my life. My parents my father's a social worker, my mother is just brilliant in her own right and so they were very proactive about getting me and my brother tested when we were younger, and so, around 12, I was diagnosed with a variety of learning difficulties, which basically, in summary I have trouble processing information. It takes me about double to three times the amount of time of a normal person to understand information, especially if it's written. It's really hard for me to process and I have short-term memory issues, so quick little things I can often not retain.
Speaker 1:And I was diagnosed with ADHD, and so what this meant for me in school was I was put into kind of like a special ed type of class where I got some additional support and the teachers that I worked with also had a connection to that information. And I was bullied severely growing up, like I almost dropped out of high school. I was bullied extensively in elementary school, I think, because I had so much energy and you know that ADHD like just constantly jumping around talking about a million different things.
Speaker 1:Shut up, jessica, you're too loud your energy is too high, just overwhelming um to most people. But then this was before. I feel like now our conversations around mental health and mental well being are more progressive and we're we're talking about going to therapy and how we can support each other. And at that time, when I was in high school I'm 34 now, so this is like 15 years ago or so I, my teachers, were intolerant to it. They were impatient with it, and I actually had a teacher in science. I believe it's grade nine or 10. It was day one of the class and he put his hand on my desk and he said you don't belong in my class and for so long. You know, my diagnosis meant that I should take.
Speaker 1:In Canada there's applied and academic. Applied gets you to college, academic gets you to university, and I wanted, I wanted to go to university. I wanted that option. So I was taking academic classes, and so this science teacher was like you need to go down to applied and I was like I'm going to university, I don't care if this is hard, I'm doing it. And he was. He treated me so poorly that I ended up having to like bring him to the principal's office with the support of my special ed teachers and it was like a whole thing. But I felt like so much of the adults that I was looking to to support or guide me in, uh, how differently my brain worked and how differently I needed to learn things and they just didn't have that capacity. And how differently I needed to learn things and they just didn't have that capacity.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you share that because you know I had similar experiences. Not that I was like, yeah, I'm going to uni. I knew I wasn't going to get into uni. I probably could now.
Speaker 1:I would like to mention that I did pass all my academic classes and I got in early acceptance to my first choice university.
Speaker 2:There you go. Congratulations, but I go.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. I did it, screw, I couldn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's awesome, you know. But I think you know, looking back at you know my experience and hearing your experience as well so interesting that it's like it's not just an Australian thing, it's a it happens worldwide. I sometimes feel that when there's people like us who, yeah, we learn differently, yeah, there might be a little bit more work involved, it's like we're a pain in the ass to these people because they have to put it's burdening them to go away from what they normally do to doing these little extra things to help people like us. But it's like, dude, that's your job. You know what I mean and I feel for teachers.
Speaker 1:Like they do have an incredibly difficult job their classroom sizes are huge and they have to be able to care for the variety of students that are within their care. But I think just in general, I used to make it mean that something was wrong with me when, when really we need to recognize that the world and our systems were built and developed to support kind of one type of person and one kind of mind, and when you don't fit into that picture, then it's really difficult for you. You meet someone who has a physical disability and they will tell you how much the world was not designed for them. But it's not their fault. It's just that our systems are outdated and they're not to meet the standards of everybody and we just need to continue to try and understand other people's experiences and evolve our systems into one that is going to be more inclusive to the variety of minds and bodies that exist in this world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because when I was in school I had some teachers who were great and I did really well in those classes. So it's almost like. But it was so funny because some of those teachers were frowned upon by other teachers because of their teaching styles and all of that, and it was like I don't know if it was because those teachers were making the other ones look bad, I don't know. But when I did have a good teacher who would, I suppose, respect me and I gave them the same respect. But you know, there was sometimes where I'd be with some teachers who really respected me and I would misbehave and they'd be like look well, can you stay back? It's like well, what are you doing? Like you know what.
Speaker 1:I mean, Don't give me such a hard time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:And they're just sort of like yeah, I can't be bad with this person because they're cool, you know so A good teacher can make a world of a difference.
Speaker 2:Oh, it, it does, it does, and you know what right? I think that flows well in. Yeah, to this next part here. So you know what effect has that had on you? So, maybe your experience at school, there, with your teachers and being bullied by people how has that affected you? But you know, maybe that's affected you in a positive way. Now that you're able to look beyond that, you're able to get into university. You've got a really, really interesting job, you know. So how has that affected you to where you are now?
Speaker 1:A couple of things I want to say in that regard, and and one is that I embrace my ADHD. Now I think it is one of the greatest gifts that I have for a variety of ways, but the thing that I think really stuck with me and what really affected me of growing up with that is I felt that I was stupid for very much of my life and I genuinely I think I've only been able to shift that within the past like four months genuinely, in the past four months, I finally started to believe that I'm actually smart, but for the longest time I just saw myself as stupid and it was a very strong narrative that I was fed, and it was really from that early age, beginning of. You know, I struggled with spelling, so kids at school call me things like Jesse McCantspell or you know teachers telling me that I'm too dumb to be in their classes and I need to be taking applied classes, and I, you know you can't go to university. You know I just felt like, or my energy was so high and I need to be taking applied classes and I, you know you can't go to university. You know, I just felt like, or my energy was so high and I'm such a bubbly and positive person.
Speaker 1:I have so much joy with me that I think people perceive that as naivety or stupidity, when it was just joy and I really carried those narratives with me for such a long time. They were very deep, lean grain with me and I'm I'm really grateful that through all my work and consistency of showing up for myself and doing things like oh you, you want me to take apply classes because that's what the paperwork says. No, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this for me and I don't care if it's harder. And I'm grateful that I've had that tenacity throughout my life, even with this narrative. But I think, yeah, yeah, that story of telling myself I'm stupid has been one of my hardest hurdles to overcome and I'm grateful that I yeah, no, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I think it was. You know, for me growing up it was. It was weird because like, yeah, I was struggling in school, failing big time, but when I was doing other stuff, like some sports or art or whatever, I was excelling, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even with our school game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think as well, and I always was like and it's been really funny because, you know, because I was struggling in school, I doubted myself a lot, and it's been really funny because, you know, I, because I was struggling in school, I had I doubted myself a lot and it's really funny. I speak to a lot of people that, or a lot of people I used to go to school with, listen to the podcast, and they get in contact with me and they're like oh well, um man, um, it's so strange that you didn't have much confidence in school, because I didn't see you like that at all. I thought you were like the cool, popular guy.
Speaker 1:And for me.
Speaker 2:I was like what.
Speaker 2:That's not what I was thinking. But you know, I think now that I look at that those are skills right, because I see them as skills, and especially now going into business, building connections, putting myself out there, I'm noticing that those are key skills that I've always had and just come naturally type of thing. So it's sort of, you know, back then I was sort of like it was more confusing because I did see this really great side to myself, but then I was sort of like it was more confusing because I did see this really great side to myself, but then I was failing miserably. And it's sort of like now I look at it like, oh wow, I have these great skills and yeah, I failed miserably here, but I don't know, it was just really confusing for me back in the day.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you mentioned kind of people observing you as this outgoing vibrant, confident person, when you didn't necessarily feel that yourself, because I think there is. There's something about that h, that hyperactivity, where we can be so open um and not see it in the same way that other people do.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't feel vulnerable in a sense, it just feels very natural well, I didn't know, I was like adhd until like a few years ago, so it was like yeah, yeah, totally, and it was just. I suppose it was a bit of a game changer when I realized it, but it was a bit of an aha moment, if that makes sense as well hey out of curiosity out of curiosity, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, you said that it's only been the last I don't know a couple of years or months or something like that that you don't feel the way you used to feel, like you said, you felt stupid or whatever. What, what, what was the, the change or what? What was that trigger that made you go? Actually, you know what?
Speaker 1:I am pretty awesome um, I have been doing a lot of mental health work over the past couple of years.
Speaker 1:So, I've been in 2021,. I went back to school and got a diploma in life's coaching where I learned a lot of like reframing thoughts and stress management and, most, nervous system regulation, and that you you know, has been great. But it wasn't until this year when, honestly, my whole world kind of collapsed in on itself in january, separated with my from my partner of four years, I lost my home, I lost my dog, I had to move into a whole new apartment. I was unemployed for six months Like it felt so much like the world was just jumbling against me.
Speaker 1:And it called upon me to show the F up. Like I either could sit in my misery and go woe is me or I could believe in myself and and and trust in myself and show the F up. And how I showed up for myself in that moment and through the work, I got hired on a job that has me producing at a level that I've never done before and I'm excelling at it and it's just kind of now landed at me through coming overcoming that difficult moment and I think, with a mix of those skills, that I'm finally like I'm amazing. I'm actually. I'm amazing Like that, just through realization of like people were wrong, I am smart.
Speaker 1:And it might not be smart Like I can do math and I can do science, but I can connect with people and I can tell stories and I can I can reach out to a billion people and I can receive a bunch of no's and that's not going to stop me and people disbelieving in me is not going to prevent me from showing up for myself. And as I continue to coach and I continue to work with other people on their mental wellbeing, I'm really starting to understand how a lot of people do not have those skills and that's intelligence. Emotional intelligence is valid and it's important and it's it's a skill and an intelligence that is valued. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah yeah, totally it's.
Speaker 2:It's and yeah, it's something you can't go and be taught. Do you know what I mean? It's almost like it's a natural, I think, some of our personalities and the way that we can connect a lot of the time. And it's really funny when I meet a lot of ADHDers who may not even know that they're ADHD or or whatever. I'll meet them and I'll be like pretty sure this person's ADHD just through the way they're able to connect and things like that. So it's interesting how it sort of evolves there. If that makes sense, you know, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, though I would push back. I would argue with you that emotional intelligence can be taught, but I think for others it comes naturally. But they are skills and how we listen and how we empathize and like. Those are skills you can learn. So if anyone is listening and maybe you don't present as neurodivergent or you feel like you lack in those skills, I do believe they are things that you can learn in practice, just like if I really wanted to do math, I could learn it. It's gonna be harder for me because I don't naturally have that brain, but I could learn it and I don't think it could be harder for others, but you can learn it I don't think I could be asked learning math now.
Speaker 2:I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like seriously, like, seriously, like I honestly I don't know what it was like over in Canada, but like doing stuff like Pi or long division. You know, I could not tell you the last time I've needed to use long division. No Like, where the hell do you use that shit?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean. Those are for the scientists, those are for the mathematicians. You guys, take it away, teach me how. Why are we not teaching me how to do taxes?
Speaker 2:that's what I want. Yeah, yeah, totally, you know, I reckon this day and age they should even have like um in schools, like um uh running your uh, your own business courses you know, learning about, yeah, learning about certain programs that you would be using if you're running a business, because especially, say, a lot of neurodivergent people um could go into a. We often see it a lot, a lot of neurodivergent people running their own businesses. It could be that you become a carpenter, so you need to start. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Or you're a plumber, or you're whatever you know, but we do see a lot of people in those types of things. It's like you know, and probably if they had have had that, I I probably would have done a little course, like it would have been interesting to me that you know talking about networking and all of that. Why aren't schools doing that? So maybe some schools do, because I know here in Australia that some of them do like certificates.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're able to get like a Certificate 3 in business or 2 in business or two in business or whatever like that.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure what happens over in canada well, I mean, I don't have any kids and it's been a while since I've been in school so I don't know how much the programs have developed. But yeah, I mean, I don't even think I knew that starting my own business was even an option when I was you know in high school.
Speaker 1:So even to have that seed planted at that time would be, I think, a beautiful uh contribution for schools. And then also like grant writing teaching people how to write a grant and apply for money and funds and understanding like you can get support in starting those businesses in that kind of way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's sort of a fun type of way of. Really. I would be. I would have been interested in that type of, and especially with like technology, like and this is the thing technology is the game changer for for me, from what I've found, you know, the tech that's around today just wasn't there when I was a kid oh my gosh, I didn't have, like uh, we didn't, I didn't have uh social media oh no, that was only call and text.
Speaker 1:That was it. That was like.
Speaker 2:Well, we well, the thing that our my phone. So I was in the era where phones became like accessible for everyone. You know, I remember back when I was very young my dad would have like a car phone and you could take it out of the car and put it into like a bag and then walk around the streets on like a phone type of thing. And then you got like the, but those were expensive. That was like I think like thousands of dollars for that phone, right. And then you would get like the big bricks. They were quite expensive. And then you got the small little prepaid things that were cheap as everyone had phones then. But then you could play Snake. Remember Snake?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the little games you could play. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did your dad do for work?
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:What did your father do for work?
Speaker 2:Well, he owned his own business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw an interesting video about you know, everyone these days is just so stressed. We're so high strung, we're feeling burnt out, we're feeling exhausted, and I think a lot of that has to do with now. We have people, are so easy to access us, we have these phones that are on us at all time. Work can ping you with a bunch of emails, they can call you. There's not as much escape and in comparison to when your father had those phones back in the day when you left work, it was like you were done. There was no reaching you. Afterwards, it was only the people with the high paying jobs and those stressful jobs that had those phones. Now everyone does. It doesn't matter if you work at mcdonald's making 12 an hour. If work wants to reach you like you can have that access and that. I think that's raising the stress levels because people feel like they can't turn off.
Speaker 2:Uh, they used to well, you know what, like I don't know know. So as a kid here in Australia, right so our bikes, right, that was our transport and the amount of like Ks we did on our bikes was just unbelievable. I wish I could do the amount of Ks on a bike these days. I'd be so fit, right. But like back in the day, you know, we didn't have phones, our parents would be like, hey, mom just going out with yeah, brandon or whatever, and we'd be gone for like the whole day do you know what I mean when the street lights turn on?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah stuff. Like if you weren't home by a certain time, your mom would come out like searching for you, right. But like you know, if you did that these days, if you said to your kid, oh yeah, just go out, they did have a phone or something like that, you'd be freaking out oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely you know, crazy times. Crazy times now. Um, we will go into. So I think you sort of said you were diagnosed when you were quite young, correct?
Speaker 1:I was diagnosed when I was quite young, but my mother didn't Like, so me and my brother were tested. I was diagnosed with learning difficulties and ADHD, and my brother was also diagnosed with ADHD, but for some reason the focus on me was my learning difficulties and the focus on my brother was his ADHD, and what we've come to understand and learn through further research is that it just presents differently in men and women, so my ADHD was not really supported at that time, whereas my brother got medication quite early on because he was the more hyperactive one. And I've actually just more recently been working with my doctor to do another diagnosis and it was interesting because she reviewed all that paperwork from when I was 12. And then she did some additional testing with me and I didn't even know there was two. There's two different types of ADHD. Do you know the two types off the top?
Speaker 2:of your head've got like add so attention deficit disorder, and then you've got um, uh, what is it called attend adhd, so hyperactive, and all of that yeah, but then you've got yeah, but then you've got like, um well, you've got one that's hyper, and then you've got one that's inattentive. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she. She looked at me and she's like yep, you have ADHD. In fact, you have both forms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can be that, you can be that. Yes, yes, yes, and I'm sort of like how does that work, you know? Um, well, how does that work actually? So, so what? So, obviously, for me I'm very on the hyperactive side, but so, with you being inattentive as well, how does that work?
Speaker 1:out of curiosity, I don't really know. I feel like I don't even fully understand it myself, but I think it would just be normal for you, it would just be normal.
Speaker 1:My hyperactivity, I felt like, was more contained to my mind, in the sense that my thoughts were nonstop, they would just constantly be rushing and going, and it was really hard for me to slow my mind down, um, and that led to um, self-medicating with marijuana, which is, you know why we see a lot of adhd people so you're able to just go and buy that from the dispensers over there.
Speaker 2:Now, correct?
Speaker 1:oh, it says. It says common as a starbucks coffee shop or a liquor store. It they are everywhere and is it like?
Speaker 2:because, like, I, like, I remember when I went to Amsterdam. It's the same type of thing, right? What?
Speaker 1:is it?
Speaker 2:Have you ever heard of Amsterdam?
Speaker 1:Oh, amsterdam, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know, I found that when I went there, because it was controlled and everything, it was actually a great experience. It seemed like it was controlled and everything.
Speaker 1:I think it was actually a great experience. It seemed like it was yeah, Amsterdam was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and is it the same in Canada, like it's really controlled and you know you can go in and go? Hey look, I'm looking for this here and they're really intelligent. People know their stuff.
Speaker 1:Super intelligent, really knowledgeable. Like the displays are like a fancy store. They're really intelligent. People know they're super intelligent, really knowledgeable. Like the displays are like a fancy store, like it's. It's not that hole in the wall. Grungy like no, everyone is like clean, proper, beautiful displays. We've got a variety of different. You know ways to smoke it like it's.
Speaker 2:It's everywhere it's has it sort of has it like um, because it's like legal there now and you've probably seen before it was when it was illegal and then it's legal now. What are the changes that you've found out of it? Out of curiosity?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've noticed like a lot of like changes, but I have noticed that a lot of people have gone. California sober, I think is what they call it, is that people are actively choosing to smoke weed rather than drink. Instead of, like, adding it to the mix, they're going. Oh, I would rather, uh, smoke weed than than drink, so maybe that would be my biggest difference.
Speaker 1:I think it was interesting, because it really became legal during the pandemic and suddenly this illegal substance was now an essential product yeah very few things that could be open and operating during that time, which just goes to show you how much pain people were in that we needed the liquor stores and these weed dispensaries to be open so that people could cope with how difficult these circumstances were, and I think there's still people struggling with releasing those clutches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was an interesting time, Like I know here in Australia. So obviously Australia's got a very big drinking culture.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Y'all know how to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in our blood. Um, you know well, because it's so hot, we just need to cool down yeah, you know, just by the beach.
Speaker 1:Of course you need to crack a cold exactly, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:but they actually had to put put limits on how much alcohol you were buying during that part, because people were just every day going there and drinking and it was becoming a real big problem.
Speaker 1:What were the?
Speaker 2:limits. Oh, I can't remember now. Maybe it might have been like a bottle Now. Maybe it might have been like a bottle, Depending on what you were buying. Maybe you were only able to buy one carton of beer, for example, but what you could probably have done is buy one carton of beer, gone to another bottle shop, brought another one, if that's really what you wanted to do, Not that I was sitting at home drinking. To tell you the truth, it was difficult and I was like there is no way I'm going to sit here and drink all the time because my wife, she was on the front line doing all the testing and that for COVID and all of that, but I was at home on my own the whole time. So it was just like I was on my own own. So drinking on your own is not a good thing yeah, no, don't recommend yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:So we sort of went off a little bit off topic there, but we're talking about adhd, um, all of that out of curiosity, right, um, and it's really interesting when we speak about relationships and, you know, growing as people, how have you found that, as you've sort of developed into an adult and all of that you know, because I think for myself, especially now I'm being diagnosed, I look at a lot of relationships before I married my wife, um, and it's sort of like wow, a lot of the things that were maybe some of the problems, were contributed to my adhd, if that makes sense interesting, and so by relationships you mean romantic relationships.
Speaker 2:Well, it probably could be both. It could be like friendships with you know, like I wouldn't even say that I've got like lots of old friends who I still are in contact with, if that makes sense, but it's not to say that I hate them, no no it might be more. I've been following. It might be more. Yeah, I might need to change. I'll be like, okay, well, that's that, I'm gonna go do this now and maybe I forget about them, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, it's just interesting when I speak to other neurodivergent people on these types of things I do find it's helpful in relationships to kind of make aware of certain things that you need, like, for example, I get distracted really easily and people could receive that as, oh, you don't care when it's it's and you know, just understanding that it's an impulsive thing that feels really difficult to explain. It's not that I don't care, but I'll just need your patience and bringing me back in, or understanding that if we're in a crazy environment it's much harder for me to stay zoned in. For me, my learning difficulties, it's hard for me to retain information too, information too. So, um, partners, feeling like I didn't care because I didn't remember, and you know, relaying that that it's not an intentional thing and I am present, it's just that I do struggle to retain certain information and can I say on that right what I've found in the past?
Speaker 2:exactly similar type of stuff yeah and then when I say, look, I really struggled. That almost causes fights, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:because it's like no, you just don't care that some people unless you're- 80 for us, then you know we do, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally you know, we need people who are going to be a little bit more patient, or understanding, or willing to learn how different our brains might work and how they can best support us in that and there's actually, like there's so many great like tiktoks and instagrams now that really focus on adhd in relationships. They've got lots of great advice for partners of those who are adhd.
Speaker 2:So highly recommend giving that a quick Google or a swipe through, because there are certain ways in which to best love us or understand us and I think as well, like if I think back to some of my past relationships when I was with people and I think they wanted to try to change who I was, you know, and it's like I just can't Like my brain is You're not supposed to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not wired to be able to focus at dinner if I've got a million things going on in my brain. And it was actually interesting because the guest we had on the podcast last he was actually talking about something similar, where his kids would come home and he would be, his brain would just be going a million miles an hour and he'd be staring off and the kids are talking and they'd be like Dad, you just don't care, you're not interested in what is like. I actually do care, it's just I'm really trying to. It's hard for me to focus because I'm thinking about this thing and you're telling me this thing here but also even just what you said of just looking off.
Speaker 1:I had this conversation, uh, just the other day with a fellow adhd of how sometimes our best way to listen is through not looking at you. Like in school, doodling, like scribbling on sheets of paper, and we're, we're digesting, like there's even when I'm watching tv I'm usually in a coloring book. There's that that need to have my attention in multiple places in order to best pay attention.
Speaker 2:If that makes sense it's yeah, yeah, it's funny, right, because, let's say, I put something on um netflix or whatever it is right, and my wife will be like you're not even watching this, you're on your phone and I'm like I actually I actually am watching it I need this other distraction to sort of like fill the void of something's not right here, if that makes sense yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely I think, and I and I think as well, like you probably, I gotta admit like being on my phone is almost like an addiction for me, but it's, it's like it fills in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it fills in that time when I just need that, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I totally and this is not to shame you for that, because I am absolutely guilty for it myself but I wonder how much of our ability to focus for everyone, even if you are neurotypical how much our ability to focus is weakening because of things like, or apps like, tiktok or instagram, where you can scroll through so much, so you're so quickly that your need to pay attention is um, isn't as long as it used to be, so now we're just used to some of these quicker yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2:It's definitely interesting. So you know you said a little bit about this at the beginning. So what was your experience? Trying medication? So try medication. So you have been on it or you're not on it.
Speaker 1:I've only been on it for three weeks now, so you weren't even on it when you were like diagnosed.
Speaker 1:No, I wasn't like, like I said, like my brother was the one who got the medication and it was kind of dismissed. And when I brought it up later in life most recently when I was, because I was just working on my doc with my doctor from it and I asked for those papers, those, those tests from my mother, she's like you have adhd. I don't remember them ever diagnosing you with that, like I don't think you have it, and sure enough, it's like literally all over the paperwork. You know it just wasn't a focus. So I'm grateful that my doctor was open to prescribing me medicine because it really has been a game changer for myself and for anyone who's listening who might struggle with the idea of taking medicine to help in this mind, because I I know for myself and for a lot of people I speak to, there's a stigma of like feeling like something's really wrong if you need to take medicine to fix that. But it's really like some people need glasses to see and it doesn't mean they're broken or wrong, they just need a bit of help. And for those of us with ADHD, there's a chemical imbalance in our mind and this little piece of medicine just helps keep everything connected or flowing the way it needs to be and for me, what that felt like or what that feels like now, is everything feels so much quieter.
Speaker 1:Like I mentioned earlier that I was self-medicating with marijuana for a period of time and that's because that medicine would quiet the noise in my brain and that weed would quiet the noise I could finally like shut down, and that's kind of what this medicine is giving me. My brain just it's me, it's this, my brain just it's calm, it's quieter. I can actually focus on one thing. I used to have to stand up during meetings. I'd have to get up and walk around my office multiple times in a day, like I can't even I don't even know I'd lose count of how many times I would just get up, do a walk around the office and come back to my desk because I had that need to move. Now I can sit at my desk and just zone in and um. I can go out for drinks with my girlfriends and actually focus on what they're talking about I had.
Speaker 1:I went out for drinks with my for my girlfriend's birthday soon after starting the medicine and I walked away from that bar being like, oh my god, I wasn't distracted at all, I was present, I was there and it. It's really helped me immensely and I'm actually very grateful to my doctor and the medicine because it's it has been a game changer for me now that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Do Do you know what? Right? It's interesting how you spoke about it quiet in your brain, because I've had some friends who have said it's quiet in my brain, but I don't like that, and they've actually gotten off the medication because they were like they want it to depend and it can sometimes maybe depend on what the person does for a job.
Speaker 2:You know they said it like took their creativity away, so they just didn't feel it worked for them, type of thing, and I think it is. There's nothing wrong with being on it or not being on it. I think it's definitely an individual.
Speaker 1:It's a personal choice, absolutely. There's also a variety of different medications, so if one doesn't work for you, talking to your doctor and seeing if maybe it's because you are better suited to a different version. What was I also going to say about that? The quieting of the brain? Oh, this is. I think. I'd be curious to know how much time they gave to the medicine, because for my first week on this medicine and a girlfriend of mine did it at the same time as me and stopped immediately because she didn't like it Because around that first week you do feel high. Like my first week I was on it, I kind of felt like I was microdosing some kind of drug and I was having this like a bit of a euphoric. But I think it's because. But the chemicals were just kind of getting straight in my mind. But now that I've been doing it consistently for three weeks, it you, it's like taking a vitamin.
Speaker 1:there's no high experience it feels just normal for that first week it definitely felt like oh, I feel high, I feel in a weird zone during that and that stopped my friend from continuing. So I've had to like go to her and be like, just dedicate yourself to one week and just see, see if you can like it when the high wears off wow, crazy, crazy, crazy are you on medication?
Speaker 2:no, no, no. So I did when I did medication. So when I got diagnosed, the doctor was like no, you don't, you know. So what happened with me and this is what the doctor said to me when she diagnosed me was that? So I'm what they class as twice exceptional. I don't know if you've ever heard the term before.
Speaker 1:I think we might have had this on my podcast. Yeah, yeah, we might have actually.
Speaker 2:I think we talked about this on my podcast, but yes, yeah, yeah, we might have actually. And she said, because it was so late when I got diagnosed, because I even remember when I was younger, especially in work, and that I'd be very bad at like organising and all of that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Man, I can do that, no problems now. And what she said was that what has happened? My brain has pretty much rewired itself with these coping mechanisms and I'm able to deal with it without that medication type of thing. Don't get me wrong, I still do have issues with certain things, but, um, I I'm aware of what the triggers are, all of that, yeah, and so, for example, if I was to go to a busy shopping center, um, I just can't.
Speaker 2:I can do it, but it's just very overwhelming for me so I try to go in, you know, periods where it's not so busy don't get me wrong. There might be sometimes where I do need to go to them in a busy period, but I'll and. But I'll deal with the type of thing.
Speaker 1:So, um, that's what sort of worked for me, um, so, now I haven't like for knowing, knowing what you need to care for yourself, you know well yeah, yeah, it's been interesting because now that I've got the diagnosis, all of that, I'm able to understand what those triggers were.
Speaker 2:And it it has been, it's been like, oh, now I know why I was feeling this way when I was doing this um and it's, it's been a lot better nice, nice.
Speaker 1:I'm happy for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, it is pretty cool, but look, we are getting towards the end here. But what advice would you give to others similar to yourself?
Speaker 1:is shame or a stigma from my friends who who have ADHD or feeling like something's wrong with them, and I think I just want to say to anyone who does have it that it's kind of like your superpower, and one of my favorite things about it is that it's really hard for us to give an F about things we don't care about. It keeps us out of working jobs we don't care about, in relationships we don't care about. It's like this gift where you just have to do things that are joyful to you and I just think that's amazing. And again what you said, our ability to connect and empathize is also a gift, and so just ensuring that, no matter what the world tells you you're capable of, or that you're stupid or anything, they're wrong, not like people don't know you, like you know yourself and this is a gift and just know that there's nothing, nothing to be ashamed about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting. I've sort of found when now, especially with a lot of the work I'm doing in this space, um, the amount of people I attract, um in regards to other neurodivergent people, um, and how quickly we have like build a friend, like like this is the second time I've sort of chatted with you, jess, and like, but I feel like I I feel quite comfortable talking to you and if I was to go to canada I'm sure we could probably. Maybe we could go to one of the dispensaries oh my god, dispensary.
Speaker 2:So quick we'd go to like trinity bellwitz park and just yeah, yeah, yeah, we could go to, yeah, we could go to a dispensary, yeah, yeah, well, you know all right, you know what and I don't know if it's an adhd thing when I, when I smoke, weed, right, I you know. You see some people and they're like comatose, like yeah like that For me. When I smoke, I'm like you know what I mean. Not that I smoke heaps of it anymore.
Speaker 1:Well, I have a feeling that you're just a talker. In general, I feel like you could talk to anyone. You could talk forever and it's. I know our time is coming close to an end, but I recently went on a date with someone who is also ADHD and it was really funny getting home afterwards and reflecting on that date because we were both ADHD. So it was like we had 50 different conversations but completed none of them.
Speaker 2:We were just jumping around so much. Was it a good day.
Speaker 1:It was a good day. Yeah, it was a good day, we was a good day.
Speaker 2:Oh, we'll have another one. Oh, okay, cool, cool, cool, all right. See, that's the thing sometimes, um, you know, when you're connected with other neurodivergent people, it's like you have this connection there, you know, I know, with my wife erin, I like her and I neurodivergent.
Speaker 1:well, is she neurodivergent?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, she's neurodivergent. She's not ADHD or dyslexic Completely different. But it works. It's like we balance each other out, type of thing.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a perfect marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny because, like the saying opposites attract really is true. Like we are completely different yeah like so, like she is, she like she'll talk a lot with me. But yeah, she's not. She's not a, she's an introvert and I'm the extrovert if that. But I can be introverted at times as well. It just depends on the situation, you know. But you know getting to the. You know if people want to connect with you and find out a little bit more about your work, where can they go to connect with you?
Speaker 1:Well, please add me on LinkedIn If you're watching this there. I would love to connect with you on a professional level, but if you want to connect with me elsewhere, I'm very active on social media. You can find me at coachedbyjess on instagram or at coached by jess on tiktok. I'm very active on both those platforms and I would love to hear from you shoot me a dm, say that you listen to this interview. Um, and yeah, that's where you can find me legend, legend, legend.
Speaker 2:So you're off foot to go see your mates now, is that correct?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's like a little girls night catching, catching up, watch the movies, maybe We'll see. We always say that, but then we never stop talking enough to actually do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, you have a few drinks, or something.
Speaker 1:Probably, but I'm more of a gardener these days.
Speaker 2:A gardener. It's just with the thing of water it looks like a cocktail, like a long island. What do they call?
Speaker 1:it, yeah, it looks like a cocktail. Thing no, it's just. I got this at a girlfriend's bachelorette party. It's just like a little water bottle. I'm not drinking on the podcast, I promise oh look, you could have.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have judged you or anything like we have. I've sat here and had some drink. Not well, it's it's 11, it's almost 12 here in Australia right now.
Speaker 1:I could have had a glass of wine if I wanted to.
Speaker 2:You could have. I wouldn't have judged you, but I've sat on here and had some wines before. But, jess, thank you so much for coming on. It's been really great to connect with you. I wanted to get you on earlier, but just with the time differences and that it's just been really critical.
Speaker 1:Your timing is perfect. I wouldn't have tried the medicine yet, so it honestly all worked out to be the right timing Everything happened for a reason, so thank you so much for having me. It's been a great combo.
Speaker 2:No problem. No problem. And for anyone who hasn't already done so, if you haven't done so yet, please subscribe, like and follow to all of our social media platforms. Check us out on anywhere where you check out your podcast. My name's Will Wheeler and this is NeuroDivergent Mates. Till next time you.