E14- Resource Guarding

This week we discuss resource guarding which is a very common problem that most people can fix themselves without spending a ton of time and money. Once you understand it, it is easy to manage in most instances. Learn more about this relatively simple problem that kills many dogs every year because most people feel unequipped to handle.

Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!

Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!

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Today we're gonna talk about resource guarding and that is Huge. Yes. Does it, I guess it kind of happens with cats too, right? With territory? I don't, I don't know. Yeah. Again, we're talking more about dogs and cats. So seriously, someone needs to like send us ideas on. What we should talk about with cats. Yeah. Because it's not that we don't wanna talk about them or that we can't, we just don't think of it first. Right. And because we're not Jackson Galaxy. No. I mean, and that's all he thinks about. Yeah. Well, and we have a cat team of great volunteers who primarily manage the cats. So you and I are more on the dog side. I know, but I, I mean, I just. I was just bottle feeding that tiny ass little kitten that you were looking at. Yeah. But, but then we're gonna, but then I'm gonna move her over to, uh, one of our cat fosters so that she can integrate her and doesn't get Tarzan syndrome. Yeah. Which you might have heard about in our Litter Mate syndrome episode. Yeah. But yeah, so we do cats. I just don't know that I have problems with Kat that. Yeah. If anyone has any suggestions, any questions about cats, let us know and we can cover it in a podcast. Yes, well, dogs definitely resource guard. That's probably one of the most common things that we deal with. And most people, they don't know what it is. And the worst part is that they're often reinforcing it and making it worse. Especially little dogs. Yes. So the one thing they don't really want, they are making happen more and more and more and it usually results in a bite. Mm-hmm. And or a fight. And then they realize they have a problem. Right. That they didn't realize. All along, right? That they've been actually enabling this type of behavior so that it culminated to this final act of violence. Of violence. No, it's true. So resource guarding is describing a behavior where a dog attempts to assert ownership over something. There are a variety of things that it can be, even people, but often it's toys, their bed, a treat crate. It can be water bowl, often food. And especially bones. Bones and animal products like animal products, sure, bully sticks. Anything that is a chewable thing that's gonna lay around and not get consumed in one sitting is likely to cause guarding. Resource guarding. Mm-hmm. Not in every dog, but the funny thing is, is that a lot of times people go a very long time knowing a dog and then they put them in a different situation, like put two dogs together and then they realize their dog just attacked the other dog over a bone and that their dog has resource guarding and they didn't know that for five years. So, it can happen, it can start at any time too. Mm-hmm. Oftentimes once a dog starts to get comfortable in a home, yeah. And so those are the dogs that we say kind of let their hair down. They, they're on their best behavior for like a month, and then they start to show you who they are, and they let their hair down and that's where the resource guarding really comes out. Right. But there's also, there's space, you know, like there's barrier aggression, so to speak. So that is basically resource guarding their crate, their area, their territory. Mm-hmm. Fence reactivity is a resource. Guarding of their territory, their backyard. Mm-hmm. Their front yard, whatever. and then people think that's funny often, especially with little dogs. Yeah. He's so protective. It's so funny. I know. Or, you know, and then they can resource guard. And it's kind of that, that concept of their space, with the sofa, you let them on the sofa and then all of a sudden they're like, this is my sofa. Or their, bed. Their own bed. Mm-hmm. Or your bed. Yeah, exactly. Get off my bed. And people bed's your bed. Yeah. And people, especially like, you'll see videos and I don't understand this. Like, why, why, why, why do you think this is funny? But they will resource guard people. And you see like these pregnant women or whatever, or a child and another person goes to reach for the child or the pregnant woman, and the dog jumps at them, snaps at them, snarls at them, and they're laughing. Mm-hmm. You're promoting a bite. Yeah. They, they don't get it. That, that's a really serious problem, and you need to address that, especially before the baby comes. Mm-hmm. I kind of wonder how many people have experienced that before we get the email where they're like, I have a new baby and this is going on. Mm-hmm. And it's not aggression towards the baby. It's, it could be towards the husband. Right. Or, you know, towards anybody. Right. But the hormones, the pregnancy hormones make it worse. For some of the dogs because they can sense and smell the changes and it makes, it can make them more protective. And so that mm-hmm. That's something you can't really avoid. Right. And so it's definitely something you have to manage. Right. And then some people actually, think it's great that the dog is protecting their child, until the kid has friends and the friends come over. Mm-hmm. And then you're not watching them, and then the dog's gonna bite your kid's friends. Exactly. Because. They've been protecting the child and, and you let them think that it's okay. One of the best things about resource guarding is that it's very predictable. Exactly. You can figure out what the resource guarding and you can fix it. Yes. So predictable means fixable. It's when a dog is reacting to something and it's. Random. Actually random. A lot of times people haven't put the pattern together, but once they tell us, we can sh we can see the pattern. But, if a dog just hauls off and bites somebody when you, you know, they've been fine around kids, they've been fine for, you know, six months. That's unpredictable. Mm-hmm. Why did they choose to react then? And unpredictable is not trainable. It's only manageable. Mm-hmm. And the reason predictable is trainable is because, You set up the situation so you can control the outcome, and that is setting it up so that you can give them an alternative behavior to do so. Now I don't want you to growl When this person comes over, you give them a treat. Mm-hmm. And, you know, distract them or the, if it's safe enough, the stranger can give them the treat. Mm-hmm. But don't push that if they've, you know, they're lunging or biting or anything like that. Right. But I mean, there's a series of actions that you can perform training to alleviate certain types. Of, resource guarding, you know, like, if they're, say that they're being very aggressive at, with the fence with the door, you have to be consistent. Like right now we've got a very highly excitable teenage pit bull mix, and he's been jumping at the door. Yeah, he jumps right up to your, like face, like he jumps really high through the door. Yeah, because I, you know, J he's very excitable and it's not necessarily that he's, it's not aggression, it's just excitement and overstimulation. Overstimulation for sure. Mm-hmm. But there's a, a, a, a pattern of training to desensitize him. And that would be the same type of training with barrier, aggression with the fence mm-hmm. And things like that where you have to consistently. Call them off, have them sit, have them know that is not appropriate when someone walks by. They're gonna be conditioned if you do it consistently. Mm-hmm. To sit. At a certain spot if that's what you have. Well, and people usually wait till the reaction happens. Mm-hmm. And then try and correct it. Right. But the key is that you have to catch them the second before you know they're going to react. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you, you know, when the doorbell rings, they go nuts and they go to the door and they start grabbing at the mm-hmm. Rug or, you know. That's right. Whatever. They've been grabbing people's pant legs, like, you know what's gonna happen. Mm-hmm. So, You have to not let that happen. Right. And sometimes you can't be always consistent with the UPS guy, for example, but if you have friends over mm-hmm. You can set your dog up prior to your friends coming over. Yeah. The same would be like for the doorbell or (mm-hmm) whatever. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you know, some people are like, well, my dog, you know, looks outside and just barks at everything. Then you have to keep them from looking out the window. Like you have to put them in a different room because that's not good for them either. So although that's, I mean it's kind of resource guarding, but it's Right. You know, whatever generalized reactivity, you have the ability to control your dog's environment. Mm-hmm. Within your home, right? And if you do it, do these things within your home and then you practice on their, whatever their weaknesses are when you're out in the world, then you, you know, because you've controlled the ones you know that you can, and then the chances of you being able to control an unpredicted stimuli is that much higher. Right? Because you have to condition them basically (mm-hmm) to the training, before you expo. I think that's the wagon. Outside. Oh, I know. Like, no, I see. Yeah. I think it's someone's pulling the, the wagon with, with stuff in it. Okay. I totally got distracted. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. Or it's digging. Are they scratching at the door? No, no, no. That's not a dog. Okay. It's a wagon. Okay. And then, yeah. Okay. All right. What was I saying? I don't even know what I was saying. Oh, conditioning. Yeah, it's conditioning. So you're basically, you're counter conditioning, right? So for example, your dog likes to guard the backyard, he patrols, and the minute he sees someone, he starts barking at them outside of the fence. So this is an example of the territory, right? The resource guarding of his territory, per se. And what you want to do then is not have him have access to the backyard without you. Right. So you are taking him out, you are working with him, he's on a leash. And when someone comes by, if you know that there's like a pattern, I don't know, kids coming by after school or, or what have you, if there's a pattern of people coming by, Then you start with your sit, well, and, and your desensitization that you're the one in control, that you are making him do certain commands, like sit down, whatever. It's a training session while people are walking by so he does not have access to that fence to bark at them. Yeah. Well, and you know, it really can be as simple as if the kids come by around three at 2 45, put him inside and then, you know, this is the lazy way to fix it. But you have the power. And that's the thing is everyone, when they contact us, they say, I am just not skilled enough to do this. This is not about skill. This is about following steps. Mm-hmm. Following directions and doing that hundreds of times so that your dog's behavior has a new pattern. And so whenever people say that, I'm like, we're not magic. This is what we would do. This is exactly what we would do, and you can do it too. There are times when, you know, they, it is a, a situation where it's not something that can go on for very long. Mm-hmm. Where it's a safety issue. Mm-hmm. Obviously, you know, then we have the muzzle. Right, right. But you know, there's other tools that can be used. Yeah. But there are situations where they're kind of a rock and a hard place. Mm-hmm. And rehoming the dog might really be the only option. Right. But that's usually with other problems too. Right? But then rehoming is not an option right now. Right? So, so it, it comes to, you fix it or you euthanize. Right. And you would need to euthanize, not us. Mm-hmm. So predictable is fixable and the key is to finding the pattern. Mm-hmm. And you may not recognize it, but chances are if you go to a behaviorist who has rehabilitated dogs, they will recognize it (Mm-hmm) and they can help you work through those steps. And this is not about spending hours and hours and hours of extra time training. Mm-hmm. This is not about hundreds and thousands of dollars training. No. This is about learning what few steps you need to take, doing that consistently. And so, you know, let's say technically you could do like three classes with a trainer. You will get the skills, the understanding of what you need to continue to proceed (right). You won't need the trainer to continue to guide you if you very listen very carefully and you control the environment. Right. So for example, we have a, a little dog. Who likes to resource guard, the sofa. Mm-hmm. Especially when he's sitting on someone's lap on the sofa and he will actually launch himself off to, bark. And I don't, I don't wanna say go after, but, just be reactive. Yeah. And to get them away from his lap and sofa. Mm-hmm. So how did we fix that? He has no access to the sofa. Mm-hmm. Well, and that is not his damn sofa. Now that's a pulling in. Okay. So, one thing I wanna mention (thanks) is the leash is the first step. Mm-hmm. Always. There is never going to be a time when the leash isn't the first step to dealing with resource guarding. So get your leash, put it on, use it, and then you know, learn about the steps of resource guarding. Often resource guarding can happen with little dogs. Especially. Yeah, it seems like little dogs... And it's not because of their size, and it's not because of their breed. It's because people think it's funny to let them do that. So for example, you... Or they don't want to correct a little dog... Right. Because they're "so little". Yeah, so you have a little dog, let's say it's a little chihuahua in someone's arms. Someone reaches over to pet them, and the dog growls, snaps or bites, and everyone laughs because it seems so ridiculous that this little dog is trying to be a big dog and be tough. That is resource guarding. And if you laugh, you're enabling it. And if the person doesn't put the dog down, they are reinforcing the resource guarding. Yeah. So specify where they're putting the dog down because I don't wanna sound right. Oh, I'm so sorry. Like, like, take the dog out of their arms and put it on the ground. Mm-hmm. So this is where the leash is very helpful. So your dog is claiming the couch, whether it's in your lap or just the couch with the leash on, you just, you know, give the leash a little tug and pull him off the couch. Not harshly. Mm-hmm. Or hard just throw 'em off balance so that they have to jump off. And then that to them was like, I do this behavior, I get this consequence, and they're like, oh. But reaching for them to get them off the couch, that act of lunging at them, especially if you're mad or you're trying to do something in a hurry that scares them. So that makes, It's gonna end up being a bite. A bite. Because no one likes hands grabbing for them. No. So do not grab collars. Do not grab dogs. Use the leash. This means your dog probably has to have a leash on all the time in the house. There is nothing wrong with that... While you're working on this behavior. Yes, there is nothing wrong with that. You need to fix this or you are gonna get bitten, someone else is gonna get bitten and then you'll have to get rid of the dog, so it's not worth it. Having a leash on is so simple. Right. And And it's not forever. No. And then use it so that every time that behavior happens, the same consequence happens. They get tugged off the couch gently and they're on the ground. Right. And this is a form of conditioning. A lot of training and counter training is conditioning the dog to expect a certain reaction to their action. And that doesn't cost any money. No. Or take extra time. No. You're already there. It's already happening. So it's action consequence. Action consequence. And think about that pattern and how the things you do create a pattern that may cause your dog to fail in that situation. So if your dog growls when you're putting the food down, leash them up, make them sit, and then like release them to the food where you're not putting the hand down. Right. Well, I mean, it's a little bit more involved than that because then they have to learn that that is not their food. It's your food. Right. Again, everything is about managing and controlling their environment so that they learn that certain behaviors are not appropriate and are not to be allowed. So a dog who resource guards his food and his bowl does not get a bowl. He only gets food from you... From your hand. From your hand. And then he's gonna learn to appreciate the fact that the food comes from you. Mm-hmm. And then he's gonna be less likely to resource guard. Well, and that's, And there's more to it than that, but that is just your general concept. Yes. You have to remove the thing that they want to achieve the consequence. It's kind of like your kids, you know, they do something bad, you take away their phone privileges and you obviously can't take away food, but you can deliver it a different way. Mm-hmm. You can do a routine a different way. Yep. And the thing is that people are always like, my dog's doing this.... and you have control over your pets. except maybe a cat. You have control over your dogs, and if you put a leash on them, you really can manage and control the situation. You are an adult. You have control. Your animal does not have control. Right. So remember you have the power and use that to your advantage. One of our big resource guarders that was pretty much a challenge because he had some like history of abuse and that would be Heath Ledger, my dog. And when we got him, he resource guarded everything. So with him, it was a, a counter conditioning of trade and trust, right? In his circumstance, it was about gaining that trust. And then once we had taken care of his resource guarding, he learned to trade. At first, you never ever took objects out of his mouth because you're just asking to be bit, and we're talking about a 90 pound dog here. And so you trade it and you always had a higher value than what he had in his mouth. His resource guarding with us, and our six year old daughter could take anything out of his mouth, that was fixed. And so we put him up for adoption. The short story was that he didn't wanna be adopted out, so now he's stuck with us, you know? No, now I'm stuck with him. Mm-hmm. Because he didn't wanna leave me. Mm-hmm. But, we did adopt him out because like I said, we had a six year old child in the house who could take anything out of his mouth. And we were very particular about the environment that he would go in and, one of the people in the home had a search and rescue female shepherd. And so we felt, hey, they probably have a handle on training. And so we did allow him to be adopted out and we did tell them, you trade, you never take anything out of his mouth. And then we gave him the basics of how to integrate him into the house successfully, because there's always gonna be a step back, when they go into a new environment and they don't trust the person yet, et cetera. Right. And, we ended up getting him back because he decided that he had to resource guard everything. So he's on a walk or a run. I mean, this guy was like super athletic that we adopted him out to. And he was out there and he'd be on a walk and he decided a leaf, a leaf of all things he was gonna resource guard and you could not take that damn leaf away from him. In the house he would take coasters. He wasn't a beer drinker, but he would take that coaster and that was his. And then tampons, you know, like, I went into the bathroom and hey, I've just, you know, I've got this, tampon and you may need it, but you're not getting it. And... Hopefully not used. No, no, yeah. Fresh from the box. Right. That's, that makes it even funnier really, because used. Would be more... Just so gross. Common. Yeah. And more likely. But to guard it before... In a wrapper. Is funny. So... It's not funny, but... Yeah. It's a hilarious thing to guard. Yes. And that's the thing is like dogs can guard objects that have no rhyme or reason. But it's a possession is now theirs and you cannot have it. And so he ended up biting someone because they decided to try to take it out of his mouth instead of giving him a higher value trade. All they needed to do was give him a hot dog and he would've been like, have your damn tampon. Do you think that he would resource guard now, if you tried to take something out of his mouth? Oh, I take everything out of his mouth now. Oh, that's good. But he's so bad because, it's the trade game for him, right. And so sometimes he'll come up to me with something in his mouth and I know. And I know that he has something in his mouth cuz he'll kind of like tuck his head kind of like, a horse. Which is horrible by the way, cuz horses shouldn't like tuck their head that way. But you know that curved? Mm-hmm. And so he'll like come up with his like chin tucked to his chest and I was like, what do you have? And then he like, kind of shows me and I'm like, seriously? And I'll either be like, seriously, and then I'll give him a biscuit and he'll be like, thank you. Or I'll just be like, yeah, you can have that. Thanks for asking. And then he will go away and he'll like do his thing. Yeah. And so it's not like it took a lot of money and you have to be patient that that's how it costs you time. Right. But it's about how you do things. Yeah. The order in which you do things to create the optimal outcome. Right. And not giving the chance to have the same thing that you know is gonna happen, happen again. Right. And people are often in denial and that it might not happen this time. No. It's going to And don't let them, because if you start to make progress too, it's not gonna be the end of the world if a situation that you're not predicting happens and the dog does that reaction, but it does take you a step back. Mm-hmm. So you don't want the dog to react and you need to prevent the reaction from happening in order to fix it. And every time they react it hurts them. It hurts them emotionally. And it's like a kid that's acting out like... Right. No kids want to have tantrums. Kids don't want to be... In timeout all the time. Right. They don't want that. But if, but they want attention, which is why they're acting out. Right. A lot of times. And so... But we're not child psychologists fyi. No, we are not. We're not vets, we're not psychologists. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But. It is just about the pattern. Mm-hmm. And you have to control the pattern, right? So there are times when obviously it might be even dangerous for you to have, you know, control the situation. And so let's just use food as an example. I mean, you should not be putting food down with a dog that resource guards without, let's say a muzzle on a basket muzzle. But you should be able to work to the point where you could without a muzzle, but we would advise using it because people are going to trip up. And they're going to hurry and then they're gonna get bitten. So we do recommend anytime you're working with a dog with resource guarding, that you get a basket muzzle. Mm-hmm. And the basket muzzle will allow them to eat, breathe, pant, even play with some toys, and drink water without hindering them. And so it's very important to take the danger out of the situation (yeah) because if you're so worried about the danger, then you aren't in the best mindset to be helping them. You are anxious and your anxiety, they will feed off it. Right. So you have to reduce your anxiety so you can be calm. So you can know I'm gonna do this and nothing bad is gonna happen. And the muzzle will give you that security. You have to train them to the muzzle, acclimate them to it, and there are ways to do that. The Muzzle Up Project online is a great place to do that. It shows you step by step how to acclimate your dog to a muzzle, and especially if it comes down to the muzzle or rehoming, our euthanization. Just do the muzzle. Mm-hmm. Like it's not that big a deal. Yeah. And Method K9 has a good video. Yes. On their YouTube. It's not on their website. It's on their YouTube. But no one likes the muzzle. Like, it doesn't look good. You look like Hannibal Lecter, but who cares what you look like if it's gonna save your dog's life? So it's like a seatbelt. Some people don't like to be restrained by seat belts. Kids complain about them. They cut at your neck. Mm-hmm. Well, you still gotta wear it. Right. It is going to save your life. Right. And this muzzle may be your dog's seatbelt. And why wouldn't you wanna put a seatbelt on your dog and save their life? So I'm getting very serious again, I get very serious when I talk about that. We have a blog, on motley zoo.org where I discuss the problem with Muzzles. Basically that people don't wanna use them, is the problem. Not that muzzles themselves have a problem. So if you have a dog that has a bite history for whatever reason, you need to consider it. One thing I wanted to mention is, sometimes with resource guarding, it can even be an empty bowl. People they're like, but there's no food in there. And sometimes it doesn't matter. They just know that they associate that with the food and it's their bowl so you have to remove the bowl when it's safe to do so. Let your dog outside to go potty and then remove the bowl. And put it away. You have to kind of think outside the box. Mm-hmm. And, you know, look for clues. It's like being a detective, Right. Like what's the pattern? What exactly are they resource guarding? Everyone's different, you know, like with Heath, the trade game works very much. So much so that he tries to manipulate the trade game. Yeah, that's funny. Because he's like, I, I could really use a biscuit right now. That's a smart dog. That's, he's a very smart dog. He, yeah, he is. Cuz I mean, he's got like some shepherd in him, so... He's a herding breed. Yeah. And Huskies are extremely smart. Well he's a malamute mix, not a husky mix. Mm. Mm-hmm. So I don't know like how smart those dogs are, he likes to, to try to, you know, get treats and he'll bring me something that he knows that he probably shouldn't have. And, so then I'll give him a treat. Sometimes I just give him a treat regardless, because, you know, he's a good boy most of the time. Yeah. You wanna reward the good behavior. Mm-hmm. And this is where leave it or drop it (mm-hmm) is a really good command to help your dog learn. Right. And often that is starting with a trading until the dog learns to let go of what you're asking. Mm-hmm. Hoping and anticipating there's a treat. There doesn't always have to be a treat at the end. Right. It's kind of like having a bonus in your paycheck. You don't always get a bonus. No, no. But you're going to, you know, work to your full capacity in the hopes of getting a bonus. Yes. Yes. And, and the key is to keep it a surprise. Don't make a pattern of it (mm-hmm) because then they are manipulating you and you're not gonna have treats all the time, but you have your praise. You can praise them. That can be the reward, not a treat. So, you know, remember to use what you have. You have enough tools and ability if you think about it, to work with this problem. Yeah. And then the problem, like I said, I mean it's not cookie cutter, so every dog has different motivators. But there is, once you develop a pattern, then you can develop a strategy. And the strategies, may have variables in it. So it's not cookie cutter, cuz every dog's an individual, but there's a basicness to it that you can... Kind of a standard process. Yeah. Yeah. But how exactly you achieve that may be different. Right. Typically the steps are the same. I had a little rat terrier named Ms. Krabapple and that's the teacher in the Simpson, the Simpsons. And the reason we called her that is cuz she had this gigantic overbite, just like the Simpsons do. And so we called her Boppy for short and she had terrible resource guarding. The first night we brought her home, like we didn't know there was a problem, and I thought something was going on with her mouth. And she was in Bryan's lap next to me and I went to point at what was, what's going on with her mouth. And she snapped at me and thankfully missed me. And I was like, oh, I think we have some resource guarding. This is in the early days. I think Ms. Krabapple was like, Maybe the third dog that I had really dealt with. Wow. And, she had terrible barrier aggression, so she'd be raging against the cage scratching and, and, so the first morning the Bryan went to work and I had to let her out. I opened the door like six inches and I opened the crate. So that she had to like a shoot right out the door. Mm-hmm. Because I was afraid to touch her, but then I was like, oh my God, now she's loose in the yard. How am I gonna get her? Mm-hmm. And she came right up to me, like, but I was still afraid of her. And, you know, it got to the point where we taught her what was appropriate, what wasn't. She did have a problem with, you know, if you did certain things and you didn't control the situation, she would bite people. That wasn't resource guarding. That was just her initiation right. But it got to the point where we could put our hand in the bowl while she's eating it, she is snarling and mm-hmm. Trying to eat the food, but she would not bite us. Right. But she couldn't help that reaction. And you know, we kept her because we could manage her. It was, wait, totally, let's go. Training is happening. We kept her because we could manage it. We didn't have kids, we didn't have a lot of guests, like we knew how to manage it. So it wasn't a problem for us to do that. But she otherwise really wasn't adoptable and she ended up being a great dog for a really long time, like, I don't know, 10 years or something. And, there's definitely no dog like her, but she was a basket case in a lot of ways and we accepted some of her problems, but we worked with other ones. Right. And you know, sometimes when people have training problems, like they'll go to a trainer and they'll say, you know, my dog, it has all these problems. And you know they came to you because... it's okay. It's okay. What are they doing? In our boarding kennels, sometimes we get certain behaviors and we are doing boarding train. However, for the clients who are just boarding, we just manage because they haven't asked for training. Sometimes they don't think they need training either. That's really probably the bigger one than they don't wanna pay for it. They don't think they need it. Right. But, so we do have a dog who comes to us and he is a resource guarder of his food. And he's not a small dog which can be a dangerous thing. I mean, it's not okay for small dogs to resource guard, but when you have bigger dogs who can knock you down, them resource guarding is, dangerous. Right. So he is a resource guarder of his food. And, and to the point, like his first day with us, you know, you put your food in there because he doesn't care if you walk in. Hmm. Like you can play with him. He's great, but the minute food comes out, his eyes change, his demeanor changes. Mm. And you're like, dude, that's kind of hardcore. So, you know, everything's fine. You put your his food down, you shut the door. Then all of a sudden it's Mr. Hyde. That's what happened with my second foster. And she had a wire kennel and the kennel almost collapsed because she was flipping out. And that's the my first introduction to barrier aggression. And it was cuz I fed her and the food went flying everywhere. And like I was, she wasn't resource guarding her food though. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, and that's why I was like, I can't do this. Yeah. But yeah, but then they did. Now look at you. Yeah. You know, so when everyone says that, yeah. When everyone was like, oh my God, I can't do this. I was like, dude, how do you think we started? Right. You know, like we started clueless. Yeah. We were not born this way. Yeah, no. Like my Basenji bit me all the time. Because I was stupid, but you know, I'm like, oh, it's okay. I love you so much. But yeah, so I was not a rehabilitator or a trainer at all with my first dog, so... I never even had dogs until I was an adult. I got married and I had a dog. So I have even less experience than a lot of people. Right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So anyone, I mean, anyone can do it, right? You just kind of want to... Be determined. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so this dog, like hardcore, I'm gonna kill you. Don't touch my damn food. And you just walk by and he lunges and means snarling, everything like that. And he's not one of our dogs. He's not one of our training dogs. So, we haven't established any kind of bond. Nothing. And so, okay, so I blew in his face. Oh yeah. And he was just like, he's like, ah, I'm gonna eat you. And then I blew in his face and he is like, what, what just happened? I'm gonna eat you. And I blew in his face again. He's like, I don't know that I like this. And then he's like, no, I'm gonna eat you. And so I blew again. And he's like, you know what? This, this isn't worth it. I just, no. He's like, this is stupid. I don't, I don't like it. And then he sat and he stopped lunging. So again, when I said it's not cookie cutter, you gotta figure things out, you know? So in this regard, blowing into space, it's that air and they have pet correctors that are air. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have it on me at the time, so I just blew. There's, there's both compressed air that makes a noise. Mm-hmm. And then there's air that's actually directed. So it's like a, like a, a gun of air almost. Not a gun. No, I don't, I mean, it is the pressure of the air coming out. It's not the noise. Right. That is making the effect. It's the actual feeling. Right. And he did not appreciate me blowing it in his face. And, so needless to say, He tried it again, next meal and he got blown at, so now anytime he comes to the kennel, he'll think about it and then he is like, yep, nope, nope. She's gonna blow in my face again. I ain't gonna do it. Well, and that took what, just a couple times? Exactly. A couple times. Yeah. And something as dumb as blowing in a dog's face can fix this problem. And I'm not saying that you should do that. No. No. Because remember there was a kennel. Yeah. There was a kennel between us. Mm-hmm. So it's not like, I mean, If we were gonna train him, obviously we would train him differently, but this was to manage him in our boarding facility. Mm-hmm. So that the other staff members would not potentially get bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's a really funny one, but it just goes to show you how bizarre it can really be. Yeah. But that at the core of it, it's simple why it's happening, it's simple or simple that it's happening. Mm-hmm. And how to fix it. Right. And you know, most people can fix this if they just give it attention. Mm-hmm. And again, not like extra time or extra money, like it just pay attention and you know, maybe write things down, write down what they guarded or you know, just so you can kind of look back and see a pattern. Yeah. And then that might help you if you're having trouble figuring out what they're guarding, and obviously if they're guarding just about everything, that's very difficult and you're, you are gonna need to use a muzzle for that. But it's still fixable, (right) it is fixable. Like they need to know that you own those things. Mm-hmm. That they're using them and they're lucky to have them. Right? Yeah. So it helps them understand that, okay, well, yeah. Action and consequence, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, your child does not own the phone. No. You bought that phone. You pay the monthly fee for that phone usage. So that is your phone. And if you don't behave, That becomes your phone again. Mm-hmm. So here you can borrow my phone and use it. Mm-hmm. As long as you, you know, do your homework, do your chores or whatever. And if you don't, then guess what? It's my phone again. Mm-hmm. Same thing with dogs. That's my food and I'm allowing you to have it. And that's my sofa, by the way, too. Alright, so that's all we have time for today and I am Jme. I'm Pate. And this is our podcast. I cannot do it right! And, and then... Rock On. Rescue on. Wait, why did I squeak? You didn't say shit. I don't know. Why do I have so much trouble with this?