Real Estate, Sex & Gossip

Innovative Financing & 2025 Real Estate Trends w/ Ryan Buckholdt

• Paul Locatelli & Brian DeDiego • Season 3 • Episode 1

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0:00 | 49:20

Get ready for an exhilarating journey through the fascinating world of real estate and lending trends as we welcome Ryan Buckholdt from Cross Country Mortgage. With decades of wisdom and a dash of humor, Ryan shares his unique insights into the mortgage industry, drawing from conversations with industry leaders like Mark Zandi from Moody's. He sheds light on the intricate dance of interest rates, inflation, and forecasts from heavyweights like Fannie Mae, all while keeping us entertained with clever anecdotes about political influences and personal experiences.

Our discussion takes a deep dive into the current real estate market dynamics, exploring the hurdles and strategies for move-up buyers and the critical role of reputation in lending. Ryan, Paul and Brian dissect different loan qualification processes, highlighting unconventional routes to secure financing for individuals with non-traditional incomes. The conversation reveals the powerful impact of local economies, particularly in tech-savvy areas like Santa Cruz, and how they shape real estate transactions. We also navigate the complex world of innovative financial strategies, including leveraging cryptocurrency and stock portfolios for real estate investments — a forward-thinking approach that promises to reshape traditional market practices.

As we wrap up, the episode turns its focus on the growing role of cryptocurrencies in real estate, diving into tax implications and documentation nuances. We round off with a lighthearted segment sharing personal contact details, encouraging direct connections with Ryan for those eager to explore his expert insights further. This episode is a must-listen for real estate aficionados and curious minds, blending professional wisdom with engaging stories and a touch of humor to keep you both informed and entertained.

Get more info from Ryan: https://crosscountrymortgage.com/santa-cruz-ca-8048/ryan-buckholdt/

@ryanbuckholdt

Speaker 1

see, my stuff works, paul this is this is the yes, it does work actually I can hear myself I'm gonna drop this right after his. This is the big league boys. This is the big leagues. This, this is the real estate sex and gossip podcast, the only podcast on the planet that doesn't do anything other than today. We're actually going to do a part of the title of the fucking podcast Real estate.

Speaker 2

What's that?

Speaker 1

Hey boys, how's it going? Brian DiDiego, paul Locatelli, who's our?

Speaker 3

guest. So today we're very excited to have Ryan Buchholz, a longtime legend, here in Santa Cruz, phenomenal lender. I'm going to let him get into his company and talk a little bit about himself before we start jumping in World. Is I was wrong in my prediction of interest rates last year?

Speaker 3

Yeah, what did you predict? I actually predicted that they were going to come down and I thought they'd be below six, and I was off. But I have a new prediction for this year. I'll be curious to see what Ryan says. We'll throw that one right away. Well, hang on. Before we introduce Ryanyan, I was on a call with 1700 commercial brokers nationwide last week and mark zandy, let me help you out here yeah, who's that? He's the head and analyst for moody's. Okay, he's a big baller, all right, he works with the united states government. His prediction and if you disagree with him, this will be good, I'll give you more clout his prediction for 2025 is there'll be two drops, but they won't be until the third and fourth quarter, and he thinks rates are going to sit right where they're at, basically sitting between 6.7, if you would, to 7.1. He doesn't see much movement.

Speaker 2

Any thoughts? I thought they were down five.

Speaker 3

Let's get back to work.

Speaker 4

Look, he's been on vacation. Fucker Exactly. But Ryan, go ahead and introduce yourself your company.

Speaker 3

Yeah, you know, and we're just going to fire away. We're pretty easygoing here. Cool, ryan Buckholt, do your thing.

Speaker 4

Okay, so Ryan Buckholt with Cross Country Mortgage Been in the mortgage industry for about 27 years. Cross Country Mort mortgage is the biggest retail lender out right now. I run a branch of about 12 loan officers and we're the biggest branch here in Santa Cruz. Basically, last year's volume we crushed everybody by three times the amount of volume that anybody else did. So usually one in three loans we're basically doing them here in Santa Cruz.

Speaker 1

And he sounds good on the mic boys. That's butter on the mic there.

Speaker 3

He's got a new career he's saying his fucking first rodeo no, holy crap, that looks good.

Speaker 1

What about personal history?

Speaker 4

like uh, where'd you come from? How'd you get here, hey man?

Speaker 1

you know it's real estate, sex and gossip. He's a good looking dude he's a good looking dude, all right so that's the business side of it. How about you? You, who are you?

Speaker 4

So who. I am Born and raised here in Santa Cruz. Paul and I went to school together, first grade, second grade, I think. Probably started kindergarten all the way through, yeah, all the way through. So dad general contractor here in Santa Cruz, mom, real estate broker.

Speaker 2

Upside down real estate.

Speaker 4

I moved, love her. I've moved about 36 times in Santa Cruz 36 times 36 different houses.

Speaker 2

Your mom sold that many houses of your main house. Oh yeah, you still own the main house no.

Speaker 4

So we bought and moved, bought, moved. My parents took the tax credit about living there two years and then taking the tax Tax-free gains yeah, so they used that 36 times, and that makes you an adaptable dude.

Speaker 1

Exactly. That makes you an adaptable dude. Exactly. Yeah, that's amazing, that's.

Speaker 3

BB Wong Real Estate Bernice. She was awesome.

Speaker 2

She had the best ad. It was upside down. If you look at the magazines.

Speaker 4

Her ad was upside down in the magazine Smart, bernice Wong. The wrong way, yeah, the wrong way.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's actually. You know, there's different marketing ideas.

Speaker 2

That's a good one. Right there to look at it.

Speaker 1

So you have any thoughts on what Bryce said there about. Do you have any kind of feeling about where we're landing right now and what was supposed to happen? What is going to happen?

Speaker 4

Yeah. So it was all basically about the inflation. Everybody had thought inflation was going to come down huge, go way past the 2% down, and that was going to drive down interest rates, and that was everybody's prediction. Well, that didn't happen. It actually did do a soft landing, like the Fed was trying to do, which that's what's kept interest rates elevated. Fannie Mae predicts six and a quarter by the end of this year. We'll kind of see how that plays out. Trump came out a couple of days ago on Thursday and said I want lower interest rates, I want home affordability back. He actually can't control interest rates like that. There's nothing that he exactly can do in order to drive it down. The Federal Reserve is a bipartisan so they can't go Republican or Democrat. They have to stay evenly in the middle. But his actions that Trump takes can show the direction of interest rates. So there could be other things that he can do that don't exactly correlate to interest rates. That will help interest rates go down.

Speaker 1

Like buy Greenland and take the Panama Canal?

Speaker 3

Yeah, nobody's touching my fucking canal.

Speaker 2

Oh fuck that thing. God bless Panama. That sounded Panama. Here we go again.

Speaker 1

That's what he said the first day in prison. Listen nobody's touching my canal.

Speaker 3

Oh, don't touch his canal. Nobody's touching my canal. Oh, don't touch his canal.

Speaker 2

My great-grandfather. He can get raped in two seconds.

Speaker 3

Hey, my great-grandfather was instrumental in building this canal with FDR in the United States.

Speaker 4

For real.

Speaker 3

For real. I was in Panama and I was on a tour and they were talking.

Speaker 4

He says this all the time.

Speaker 3

Listen, they were talking about Julio DiDiego. Go ahead and fucking Google it. I'm royalty over there, motherfuckers.

Speaker 1

You know, that's not what I'm doing. I'm doing this. That's my anthem.

Speaker 2

Yeah, sounds good, that sounds terrible. You know what?

Speaker 1

I'll play it in the background, just to give you like here you are. You're standing at the Panama Canal Now talk your shit about your family.

Speaker 3

I've been to the canal. It's an amazing, amazing engineering feat.

Speaker 1

It's an amazing, amazing Engineering feat. It's unbelievable.

Real Estate Market Trends and Advice

Speaker 3

It is. Besides, obviously, panamanians and Americans died. But I was on a tour and when we were going to the canal the tour guy kept mentioning Julio DiDiego and he didn't believe me and so I had to pull my passport out. Obviously, matches, yeah, and it's kind of funny because my great-grandfather and I have the same eye color, the rest of my family's brown, so we were the only ones with hazel eyes, gotcha, and so he was instrumental there. He's got a letter from fdr. I actually have the flag, which is the white house flag.

Speaker 1

If you would, it's at my house I believe I don't know if I believe you were a model. I've only seen photoshop stuff of him like at your knees looking up at you. I have no proof that you even did it. I believe him.

Speaker 3

I believe him I think you're full of me. I think you're full of shit. I think there's pictures of paul's on his knees in front of versace, I think stay away from his canal don't fuck my canal, trump. Don't fuck with my canal and so.

Speaker 1

So this is the way this podcast kind of goes, but we do put a pin in it, we have a little bit of fun and but I think, think you know, kind of goes, but we do put a pin in it, we have a little bit of fun, and but I think, think you know, kind of continue on your thought right now. As far as um, you know, there's a lot of hands in the pot, right, there's a lot of hands in the pot, and then you, clearly, anytime you change an administration, anytime you know that's kind of a hot moment right now.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and what's, what's your gut? There's fundamentals of what people are. There's targets, right?

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And there's basically targets create momentum and targets create expectations. What's your gut feeling 2025 is going to look like?

Speaker 4

You know, in 2025, I think interest rates are going to come down slightly. I don't think we're going to see any huge massive moves. I think maybe six and a quarter-ish, six and a half, somewhere in there. I think it's going to be a great purchase market. I think people are finally going to be getting off the fence to move up. You know, go from a condo to the house, go from the two bedroom house to the three bedroom house, that and then first time home buyers. However, it's going to be tough for those move up buyers because they're going to have to either one sell their house first in order to buy the next one, or get into a different type of loan program which may allow them to buy before they sell their current residence.

Speaker 1

And getting into the high weeds a little, because the one thing I do here is just kind of help out the common man, which includes me maybe just kind of go a little bit deeper in why that will be difficult for that sect right now In particular. What are the circumstances right now that would make that difficult?

Speaker 4

Because the sellers who are selling the home want certainty. They kind of want to know exactly where they're going to go when it's going to close, all of that other stuff. So I would say they're least likely to accept an offer that's contingent upon that person or that buyer's house selling Tracking, Because it just leaves uncertainty out there. So I think it's going to be the ones that are going to get into escrow are the ones that have certainty that they can close without you selling the other one.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Hmm, and then and then with buyers. Ryan. I mean, what are you guys doing with buyers today? You're right, a lot of them are sitting on the fence.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So what is, uh, you know what are you guys educating them, right? I mean, we're realtors. We educate them and let them know what we think and where when they should dip their foot in the market. But with you guys, what are you guys telling people right now?

Speaker 4

So me personally, I my suggestion in buying is buy when you can afford. Don't you know? If this is a primary residence, you plan on living there five to 10 years, keeping it it. Just buy when you can get in. I have a lot of real estate investors who are savvy about it and they're still out buying properties right now. So it's not they're trying to look for the best deal or anything like that. It's all about timing and it's all about long-term in real estate. Real estate is really not a make-get-rich-quick scheme. It's more of a long-term growth. Rents are going up, all that other good stuff.

Speaker 3

Long hold and why. You know you said something I didn't know. Obviously, we've got a decent amount of good lenders here in this area, obviously including yourself and your team.

Loan Qualification and Real Estate Trends

Speaker 4

Why did you guys feel you guys did the volume you did over other lenders? I think we have a great reputation out there for doing what we're saying we're going to do. You know, I won't approve somebody unless I absolutely know what's going to go through. So a lot of listing agents trust us and know that we're also local too, that they can come down to my office if they have a situation or an issue. But also I have a lot of great loan officers the top ones here in the county that also are in my office, so we get our more than fair share of the business.

Speaker 3

And how do you guys loan to people that are maybe not quite lendable, like Paul? Like, how would he get a loan?

Speaker 2

That fucking does nothing. So how would he get a loan?

Speaker 3

State of income I mean, were you lying on your application? Yeah, do you guys still have those around?

Speaker 4

No, there's not actually stated income around, but there's no ratio, so I have a client right now, who makes about $1,500 a month in Social Security, has a $2.5 million property. We're going no ratio giving him cash out of $250,000. So basically he does he qualifies for how this loan is set up. So the interest rate sounds higher to me $8.375.

Speaker 2

Oh, not terrible, my canal just got bigger, that's it I just I told you before this podcast no swearing, it's not explicit. That wasn't swearing.

Speaker 1

My canal got bigger. It's just the visual what happened. It's horrible. All right, do I get?

Speaker 4

lube. But in this situation he's taking his payment from 3200 a200 a month down to $1,800 a month. So even though he's going with a higher interest rate because he's amortizing it over the next 30 years, he's all about cash flow. He's like I want to get my overhead as low as possible.

Speaker 3

Yeah, this is able to do it A little, makes sense, totally Exactly, and so you guys remember before our crash in 2009. I mean, I remember Paul super fired up, who had his guy, who was a dishwasher.

Speaker 4

I think he made 12 bucks an hour and Paul's, like I'm going to put him into a million three house.

Speaker 3

He got a loan 110%. You're still messing with my dishwasher. I'm never going to forget that when you said that to me Talking about red flags.

Speaker 1

Hey Ryan, going back to what you were saying about like I want everybody to buy a house. The first part of it was like the three times and how well you're doing. Is it measurable statistics? Are there analytics and statistics in your business to say not only can I just say we close more, but, like you said, qualifying and the percentage of people that know people that you can close on is? Is that a measurable statistic?

Speaker 4

Oh, definitely.

Speaker 1

And like what's a great number or what's a bad number. There you know, is there. Are you looking for 90%, like what's a good?

Speaker 3

Like volume, for I guess, I think.

Speaker 1

I was gravitating. What he was talking about is not only it's kind of like seeing the whole room and being able to kind of meet a client, close a client and do what you say you're going to do, and that takes, I think, a lot of times. There's guys like Paul that sell to the dishwasher and no regard for the humanity of the whole thing.

Speaker 2

Nothing wrong with my dishwasher.

Speaker 1

No regard for the numbers. Nothing that he's seen in front of him matters.

Speaker 2

I want 06 to come back.

Speaker 1

He's going to get that cash and then kind of, that's it, that's it that. That's Paul, I'm saying I feel. I feel like there's a human over here that looks at a whole scenario and I think a prior would be is. Is this right for them?

Speaker 4

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1

Okay, all right, and I was just curious more. I just like those stats, I like the fact that you know. Eventually you have an annual measurable statistic like let's do better than last year. And I just don't know this industry, so I don't know what numbers we're talking about. How many loans did?

Speaker 3

you do last year. Well, I can give you some stupid stats. I mean— that's my favorite.

Speaker 2

Okay, great, I just want to know how many loans you've done?

Speaker 3

Well, let's start here. There was 1,248 single-family resident sales that were publicized, meaning on the MLS. Obviously, we did a lot of off-market deals that are not included in that, so let's call it 1,350.

Speaker 2

And we're just talking about Santa Cruz, because Ryan could be doing loans monorays.

Speaker 1

Santa Clara, that's Santa Cruz County.

Speaker 3

But Santa Cruz County, yeah. So if you jumped on the Santa Cruz Association of Realtors, look at their stats. It was 1,248 closed single-family homes for all of 2024. Now that doesn't include condos, but I think it was like 364 additional condos. So let's call it 1,600. So that's 3,200 paychecks if you would listing side, buying side, but 1,600, to answer your question, loans in Santa Cruz County. Now the refi market he can talk about is probably dead. Gotcha Ryan, I'm not a lender, but that does include refinances. Or outside, like Paul said, santa Cruz County, monterey, et cetera.

Speaker 4

Yeah, yeah. And then 30% of those were all cash too. Oh sheesh that many, yeah, 30%.

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 3

So you're saying there's cash in our market.

Speaker 1

You're saying there's money out there, definitely. Now that's the other one like as far as like, just like water kind of cooler conversation. Is our cash rate extraordinarily higher than the whole country, or even does California operate in a bubble as far as cash? Or is that just nationwide right now Opportunities sort of, or are people walking in with 30% cash in North Carolina and Arkansas and Texas and California? Is California just its own beast?

Speaker 4

I think so. We have a lot of people here with cash. We have a lot of people that make really good incomes. Santa Cruz is pretty fortunate that way that we do have high-tech USA 22 miles away and high-tech USA pays well.

Speaker 1

How many of your cash offers are by people that own magazines?

Speaker 2

Zero, fucking zero, damn it. Many of your cash offers are by people that own magazines zero, fucking zero, damn.

Speaker 1

If you own a magazine company, you're going under.

Speaker 2

I did it again because you did, we didn't get invited to the party actually I had one guy had dog fancy.

Speaker 4

He owned dog dog and sold it.

Speaker 2

That was probably about 10 years ago did you hear him 10 years ago? How about landscapers? People that mow lawns? They make some money. I'll give them a loan.

Speaker 1

I know dishwashers apparently.

Speaker 3

They get a loan. Some people might be confused, but the ones that listen to our podcast, not what who? Well, santa Cruz Vibes Brian. Brian, besides podcasts and landscaping and investments, brian's a very successful guy but he started Sanctuary's Vibes and he's doing really well with the magazine and I'm not going to say you're welcome, but it's really weird not getting invited to a fucking party, that would be fucking built for him right. Exactly.

Speaker 1

There's our side note. There it is. What a bitch. There it is. This is you know, and I'm happy to wade into this, but. I have so much respect already for this man. I'm losing respect to my right. I'm gaining respect at 12 o'clock.

Speaker 2

Let us figure this out who did we? Introduce you to oh, maybe Mike Howard, maybe.

Speaker 1

Reggie who else you know? I think across the board everybody. That is fundamental to my success. You introduced me to the last two years.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I came here with nothing. You did, brian posted some really cool pictures online for the party and it was really weird because I was at home. Here's the thing.

Speaker 1

When you see this guy talking about his canals and this guy talking about taking a bunch of people.

Speaker 4

Would you invite this guy to Chaminade at?

Speaker 1

sunset under the lights.

Speaker 4

No, yes.

Speaker 1

Clearly, yes, clearly. It's the last person we need up there. It was an oversight. I apologize.

Speaker 3

Oh, stop kissing that, I know, Just take it, Take it. So, Ryan, how many loans are we doing this year? What's what are we? Do you think we're going to have an increase? And and I asked this to Ryan we're the realtors, but this is about Ryan Buchholz and just, and he's also super knowledgeable and he's in the game in many ways. I mean, what are you think we're going to see? A uptick, downtick, say flat, in terms of transactions this year?

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think we'll see an uptick. I think we're going to see a lot more people listing their properties. I've already been told that there was a lot of things being held back for 2025 that they're going to be listing in the next week or so, because they're waiting for the new president, yeah, exactly Is that why they're always waiting for something. They're waiting for somebody. Hey, how about I'm going to?

Speaker 2

change your lots. Can you loan on lots?

Speaker 4

Yeah, you can actually loan on raw land. Okay, about 30% down on raw land 30%. Okay yeah, at 8%, 8.5% interest rates, not bad, I'm feeling it every corner. It's a hard money right there.

Speaker 1

No, I'm just feeling it every corner right now, because the funny thing about this magazine, um is it does put you in front of county city, metro, california, closets, kaiser. Eventually you're sitting down with people that sort of and all the way down to taquerias and you know so sort of the pulse between the clients that we have and these pickup parties that I don't invite them to are a great meeting place for these conversations. Probably sell a lot of houses there too. Now I think about it. Just rub it in. Yeah, I know he did, but there is, and I'll throw this one out there as a kind of a loss leader for a conversation is waiting.

Speaker 1

Yes, anytime there's a political change, there's this one, but there's a tremendous amount of optimism. Right now it could be false, but optimism is not a financial transaction, but it's real and there's a lot of optimism, I think, for 2025, not because of that dude or this guy. I think most of the people I talk about feel there's a fundamental shift coming in a natural historical pendulum swing. There's pendulum swings of economy and then eventually it can go only so far and I think when it starts to get a certain feeling, people are like it's time to spend, it's time to basically kind of in 2025. To me could be wrong, you know, but it feels like a little more optimism than I've seen. For sure, past COVID it's been a dark period. Yeah, it has. You know, does optimism? Do you feel that in your industry at all?

Speaker 4

Yeah, you know, when somebody feels secure about their job or secure about doing something, that definitely gets them in motivation. I think with our prices, the way they are, and basically how much appreciation we have here in Santa Cruz, you know, 6.4% over the last five years, 10 years, that 6% now when you take that on a house, now that's worth 1.4, that means basically in 10 years that thing's going to double. Yeah, that 1.4 is going to become 2.8. So that is a huge motivating factor right now.

Speaker 3

Should we take a timeout and explain the math to Paul, or no?

Speaker 1

No, look at him.

Speaker 3

Or did you get that?

Speaker 1

One plus one is three. There you go. How's that? No, and I think you start getting into those numbers. How about Bitcoin?

Speaker 2

Fuck this shit, the big Bitcoin, fucking slow.

Speaker 4

Can I use my Bitcoin to buy a house? You actually can. For down payment, yes, but not for income.

Speaker 3

Okay, well, I'm out. This is a good topic topic how come?

Speaker 1

how about dogecoin? Fuck deutschkine went down, I'd say no, you got to play it. Stay, it's day trading, you idiot. Oh no, but it's, it's, uh no. I think that's the um. You know, for me it's. You're staying on that one before I do want yeah, let's finish this.

Speaker 1

This is good let's finish, because I do feel like this is this is a big part of it. The thing I was going to say is, sometimes you talk that number and you talk a large amount of money and you start getting into the conversations with, like your financial advisor, but that's like your market return. Now you start looking at now you're looking at forget a house, you're looking at your nest egg and you start doing these numbers. I love those numbers because then you start doing big numbers times. You know what you know is 10% and do your own math and you're like it's significant, it is, it's huge and and it's reliable and it's real and it's a long term.

Speaker 1

So I'm into that and I think it's um, you know, there's part of it where you can kind of manifest some things and I think, locally, you know, uh, you know, there's that macro, micro and in the micro of us in this community right now. I just feel like you know I'm talking optimistically, I'm talking to people about, you know, even on a, on a guerrilla kind of level, we can do things to help the smallest guys and even the nonprofits, but there's just, you know, my little corner of the world. There's a lot of positivity right now and it wasn't there. It's not me making it up, it just hasn't been there for a couple three years.

Speaker 3

What do you think, Paul, on our world Real estate world?

Real Estate Transparency and Success

Speaker 2

The whole contingency. You know the contingent buying the house. You know finding something. We just did one. We actually had three sales that were all contingent back to back to back. But we were lucky because technically we were controlling all three of the deals. So having another agent involved in that whole transaction could have screwed the whole thing up. I mean it was definitely stressful. The guy who bought the first tram well, used the train he was getting a loan out of. Where the fuck was he getting his loan out of? Don't even remember now, because he was his own kind of his agent. You know this whole new world of the buyer-broker agreements and commissions and fun stuff like that. Yeah, you know he signed one, he did it all but he got his lend. It was outside California. I was a little nervous. He was Jewish-Russian and the buyer didn't even see the house. He saw it after the fact.

Speaker 1

What does Jewish-Russian have to do with anything?

Speaker 2

Well, that's who he was, Well you can ask Paul there Russian coffee shop he had to go to. I thought this deal was going to blow up.

Speaker 1

I think this is a great, this is the perfect segue to crypto, because I think we've yeah, okay, so we're all optimistic.

Speaker 2

And now Russian coffee shop, russian yeah, and the fucker knew every single person in that fucking Russian coffee shop. I'm sitting there and I knew what he wanted. He wanted to hit me. He wanted to grind me because the square footage was wrong. Yeah, per the county, per what we had, you know, per square foot. You know, in San Jose they want it per square foot is the dollar amount. Yeah, we sat there for a fucking hour and I point blank looked at him. He's actually technically my client. I go. What do you fucking want? Yeah, I go.

Speaker 1

Russian, just making it very fucking obvious. It's unnecessary, usually not to post-edit, but I'm going to be post-editing now, really. Yeah, cancel culture, paul. It's fading, but it's still there. Is it still there? It's fading, but it's still there.

Speaker 4

Do you?

Speaker 3

want a hug. Yeah, here's the thing.

Speaker 1

Say it one more time here's the reality.

Speaker 3

Because CAR loves people like Paul, I actually still need them, so bleep, thank you.

Speaker 1

I got to get a button for Paul?

Speaker 4

No, no, get a good one, no, I think.

Speaker 1

I know where it is, I'll hit it. Wait, you're fucking everything up as usual. That's it. There you go.

Speaker 2

You got it, the Lippitey button, you know once again, but this is after removing all contingencies, the whole nine yards, you know it's whining, so we gave money. We had to give money, that's exactly, but it was, but it controlled the deal all the way through right and we're getting back the contingent. Contingent offers yeah, we control them all, so it helped out. If there was another agent in between this, it could have screwed everything up totally. And it's not saying you can't.

Speaker 3

There was transparency in that, obviously because of the situation in that um and those transactions which I think really helped out for the buyers and sellers on there um, where normally you may not get that with another party that's involved because they're you, because everyone's there protecting their client. But transparency was a really key big thing there it had to be up front, yeah.

Speaker 1

And I think, again, it's like that Mark Twain quote. I always butcher it, I say it in every—I've said it in Mike's podcast before, but there's that Mark Twain quote that loosely says—and this goes to what you just said transparency is if you always tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said, and that's loose, but that is a fundamental thing that if you take that to heart and you're, let's say, you're an agent and you never want stray from transparent truth, then you're good, because the thing about doing it that way is, even in a transaction that's a 2 million, 3 million, 5 million or it can be over a latte, if we're having a transparent, honest conversation. I always say this to my employees there's no such thing as bad news. It's a current event, uncommunicated, and I know we've talked about in this podcast, but it's more important than yours when there's bank accounts and there's lives and there's homes involved in all the work that you guys do.

Speaker 1

If there's one little, I'll say it Friday and try to make it work by Monday, you're fucking them. Oh yeah, you're done. You're fucking them because even if you make it work by Monday, you've sort of you kind of like, have gone into a narrative where you have to kind of like make that thing I said come true and it never. You made it exist, whereas if it's just bad news and you're a client, the minute you hear it, you's happening to you at the same time. Yeah, that event's happening and I think in your industry in particular, with the stress of that industry, the tiny commissions there's always a being with you guys. The last couple of years I realized the outside, look into what you guys do. Eventually it kind of comes down to the same thing. There's not as much as people think the volume is what gets you to success. It's not, it's not a lottery win, you know. I think a lot of times people look at real estate agents that are like oh, look at you but, it's it's widgets.

Speaker 1

We're all doing our individual widgets and there's a lot of volume that gets you to where you're at. But I think there's animosity sometimes, which you guys do a great job on this podcast, I think, for the people that do listen. And, by the way, you went well over like 1,000 or 1,500 downloads recently. So that's really for this one. That's really good, for I know you listen to this bullshit, I know. And the ones I realize because we do get analytics back on in our transcripts and when.

Speaker 1

Paul speaks less than 8%. It's through the roof. It's like his company. We're three, four, five, six fucking times better podcast than the rest of everybody, and I don't know what rant I was on there, but I think mostly what I was saying you guys humanize a part of it, because I think you can be. That's. The greatest part of you guys is that you're just people that live here, that laugh, that play, that have kids going to school, doing all those things and, by the way, you can sell them a house and rep them the best way and you sound like the same kind of dude.

Speaker 2

We're all local. That's exactly it. We're all from Santa Cruz. So you know the feeling. You know what's going to be about.

Speaker 1

The challenges.

Speaker 2

The challenges, the challenges, the ups and downs, and you have local people. I mean, ryan works with a lot of local realtors that are great realtors, and then there's some that aren't from here. That are bad or whatever, but when you're from here, you kind of know what to expect.

Speaker 1

No doubt.

Crypto Transactions in Real Estate

Speaker 2

And how to get through it and find the right person for that deal or that situation, that deal or that situation.

Speaker 3

My ears are perking on Bitcoin, Ryan Crypto.

Speaker 2

Let's go back to that real quick. So I can use it as a down payment, I can take it out, put it in my bank, use it as cash. But how come it's income? Because they want to send me a freaking tax form and I won't fucking sign it.

Speaker 4

It's income. I can use it as down payment if you can show the receipt of buying the crypto Right.

Speaker 2

So the receipt of buying the crypto. You can't fucking show that.

Speaker 3

Paul, you're a bad example. There's a lot of people that do Exactly. I get tax statements from Robinhood Is that what you're saying.

Speaker 1

Correct. Oh yeah, and I don't play that game. You're exposed.

Speaker 3

Hold on, hey, and I didn't say this, but when your wife doesn't know, no one knows.

Speaker 2

So, paul, you should probably stay out of this conversation. No, I told her I got money. Oh, you did. I showed it to her. So, yeah, that's fine, because I bought crypto when you did not have to use a social security number, nothing, I bought it with a credit card. Yeah, I bought it with fucking credit cards.

Speaker 1

Early days no, it's changed Because you couldn't get money in there.

Speaker 2

I couldn't go through the bank. I'm like fuck it, they took my credit card. I'm like, okay, here we go.

Speaker 1

It's all legit. I can see that. I didn't know you can transact it in real estate, but it sure makes sense. I think we're on the front end of it, but I think the fact that it's making its way into practical kind of exchanges like that is really a good sign.

Speaker 2

Yeah, there's companies that use it.

Speaker 1

I'm going to buy some right now.

Speaker 2

You should, because actually, I'm taking my money out and giving it to churches now to the Reggie Stevens Foundation, now, because there's companies that are set up to take your crypto money and change it over and they send them a check. It's nice.

Speaker 1

Vibes takes crypto.

Speaker 2

Yeah, no, I don't see you. You don't have that yet. What's that I?

Speaker 1

mean, it just started, just now?

Speaker 2

Yeah, you might want to start it I'll take care of Chris now.

Speaker 3

So, ryan, we had the pleasure of I'm not going to call it the first crypto transaction in Sanctuary, because I don't have a clue about all the transactions, but a while back we did one with an actual crypto lender who's in LA. One of our clients is a very large investor in crypto. One of our clients is a very large investor in crypto, so I learned about crypto from him and it was interesting how they set up and did the loan. And I mean so what is your guys' situation? So I come to you and I'm like, obviously I have to be have documentation. What I heard from you Correct Crypto, yep. So okay, let's, let's. I got 4 million bucks in crypto that I can document in front of you. I mean, what is the process? Is it different or is it just like, oh, it's a fucking another Wells Fargo bank statement.

Speaker 4

Pretty much like another Wells Fargo bank statement. Show me where you bought it, show me. Or if you get monthly statements, I can use that.

Leveraging Assets for Real Estate

Speaker 2

Then sell it off, put it into a regular bank account, your regular savings account, and then you can bring that in as cash to close. See, he was gotten lever. He was leveraging his crypto, he leveraged his crypto.

Speaker 4

So the lender said, okay, I'll give you the loan, but you're gonna put x amount of dollars crypto in a different bank or whatever. Yeah, so he did like a margin loan against his crypto. Yeah, yeah, exactly, can you do?

Speaker 2

something like that. Is that that's newer yeah, that's newer.

Speaker 4

probably something through his company that would allow that, right? Um so like I have a lot of clients at apple that have, you know, a million, the Apple stock, they can borrow against their Apple stock let's just say $500,000 and not actually take their money out of the market. So it sounds like that's what you guys were doing with the crypto was just doing a margin loan against the asset.

Speaker 3

And for people that don't understand. You want to elaborate a little bit on that, because there are a lot of people that don't think they could buy a home and you know Ryan's going to give you all his information at the end so you guys can contact him.

Speaker 3

But there's a lot of people because they don't quote they have stock but they don't have cash, right In terms of like, oh, I don't have any liquidity this podcast right now. So I guarantee you there is a percentage, a high percentage of listeners that, because of where we all live, that their stock portfolio looks great but they might be quote cash poor, if you would in the bank in terms, and that's how they think of liquidity.

Speaker 4

Can those?

Speaker 3

people buy a home.

Speaker 4

Yeah. So, for example, like somebody that holds again like the example million dollars in Apple stock and don't want to pay the capital gains to sell it off, they can borrow against that money, which is called like a margin loan or a pledged asset loan Every company has a different terminology for what it is Right but they can borrow from that, keep it leveraged in the market. So their million dollars is still growing, but they can borrow at it 7%, 7.25% so you actually don't have to sell the stock. You borrow against it in order to put down the down payment on the new property, but that doesn't get into our retirement.

Speaker 1

I'm getting confused right now.

Speaker 2

You can use your retirement. That's a whole different subject. You're using your 401k. Okay, you be the buyer. I'm just so naive with this, I've never even-.

Speaker 1

This is why I want to go down this road Honestly because I would consider ourselves Stacy and I, with this, are officially over a year and a half. I'd consider us a little cash poor now because of this investment, which has been awesome, but that has never affected our nest egg, and the nest egg makes me think we could probably buy a house, but I've never thought of it that way, to be honest.

Speaker 1

So are you talking about your 401k, all of it. I mean, yeah, all of it. 401k, ira, all of it, everything we've got in there and I so that's good.

Speaker 4

My wife and I just bought a house so we took just as a rental property. We borrowed against our stock portfolio so we used the $300,000 from there. So I'm paying an interest rate of 7% on there.

Speaker 1

To me it's just that's again so you don't get a better deal being a lender.

Speaker 4

No, not on that.

Speaker 2

Because people think that. People think the lenders get better deals, like inside honeycomb.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Inside trading.

Speaker 4

Not on that, because I hold my portfolio with Edward Jones, so it was actually Edward Jones. That's allowing me to borrow the money from my portfolio, gotcha. So we borrow at 7%, but my portfolio at the time when we bought it in November, I was yielding 17%.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's exactly it. That's why we're with Ameriprise, we've got our guy down there and stuff. But I've never, honestly, just for a million different reasons, I've never thought of it in that context. People don't think about it.

Speaker 3

Dumb question, that's one of the best things we've ever talked about, but you're making 17. You're borrowing at 7, which is $21,000 a year. Are you physically coming out of your pocket for against your profits? We can do both.

Speaker 1

Say that again for a fifth grader Slow down, slow down a little bit for me there. Yeah, yeah, sorry, just do the numbers, okay.

Speaker 3

So he borrowed $300,000. Correct, and they explained that's going to cost him 7%. Got it, so that's $21,000 a year. Yep. So my question is do you have the option, or do you have $1,000 a year as part of your mortgage payment, in addition to whatever your mortgage payment's going to be, or do they hedge that against your profits? Let's say you made 10%, now are you only making three?

Speaker 4

Exactly Correct. Yes, I can either pay it in monthly payments, the interest-only portion, or I can use the profits from that account in order to pay back.

Speaker 3

Pay back down, exactly Pay back down, or just pay the interest only payment, I mean so when you think about that right, because my eyes are open and I have little knowledge on that, but I have some enough to get in trouble the so if it's at 10 and you're borrowing at seven, I mean it seems like a hell of a deal you're still making, just making, three percent, you're using your own money. That's quote, tax free now does that have to be.

Speaker 3

You bought a rental. Does that have to be a primary? Is every institution different or can you buy rentals? Can you buy over four units? Is there any restrictions?

Speaker 4

No restrictions other than that Edward Jones or the entity, needs to make sure that you're being good with your money. Sure that you just didn't pull it out and going to go blow it all in Vegas to see if you can double down. Okay, that's what we did last year, paul.

Speaker 1

That's just because, you didn't even want to get into that trip.

Speaker 4

It was very successful though, by the way. Good job buddy.

Speaker 1

Fuck you.

Speaker 3

We always stay positive. But I come at things kind of in a worst-case scenario. I'm a little weirdo that way, yep, I come at things kind of in a worst-case scenario. I'm a little weirdo that way, yep, I always think backwards. So let's say, there's a market adjustment, your stock goes down and now you're making 5% on something you're paying 7%. Do they put a put in for those stocks or do they make you pay that 2% difference?

Speaker 4

towards payments Put in on the stock. So basically you can only borrow about 50% to 60% of how much you have in there, and then if the stock drops 30% to 40%, they have a 10% buffer. They require you to sell that stock for them to get paid back. So they definitely have a mechanism in there for just in case.

Speaker 3

And so you know it's a great program, for that's one of the best savings we've ever done.

Speaker 2

We did this with my morgan stanley account with our property in roseville.

Speaker 3

I know yeah, same thing. I was very smart.

Speaker 2

It's like somebody else's boat he's paul's account, my money, yeah, I gotta be honest first time how?

Speaker 1

many podcasts have we done? This first time I've ever paid attention. I'm just being honest I do feel like I get a little money from you, but this is like the first time in everyone we've ever done where I'm actually engaged in this podcast right now I mean it sounds like I am, and I'm fucking around and laughing and stuff, but I just give two shits until this very moment, I've had individual conversations.

Speaker 3

Do not send me a bill ever again, because I forgot all about it.

Speaker 3

But I have individual conversations with Ryan and Ryan is very upfront, honest, right and gets to the point, and so it seems like you would need a little. Let's just use your $300,000 example, whatever the number is, I mean for safety purposes. Is there some kind of calculation where, if I had 600,000 and I wanted to use three, that's probably pushing, that's probably risky, right? If they call something, I'm gonna have taxes on top of it due. Is there like formulas they use, like hey, if you got a million to be ultra safe, you should only pull out 200 or 250? Or as an, you're an advisor to people, right? Even though you're not a quote financial advisor, and we all have to stay in our lane.

Speaker 3

But let's be real, we're therapists and we're not licensed therapists, so we all do more than just sell homes and you do more than just do loans and so. So, yeah, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm going to. I'm like you know, is there some kind of formula? Cause there's people listening right now going fuck, I got a million fucking bucks and I don't have enough down payment to buy a house. But I also don't fully understand what do you mean? They can charge me and I have to sell and pay taxes. I mean, is there kind of a fool's formula?

Speaker 4

we stick to Rough formula and every different, every company is different. So rough formula is going to be 50% of how much you have in there and then if the market drops by 40%, then they're going to require you to sell the asset to get them paid back. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1

Yes, that does, it's good stuff.

Speaker 3

I mean that's, it's interesting stuff, right? I mean I know we got a lot of people that just those options and again, your lender, who you choose, is really important and those. You know my wife, she doesn't like lenders at all. She thinks you guys ask too many personal questions. I'm like, honey, they're giving us a loan, yeah, and she's like I don't care. Yeah, and she's like I don't care.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

They want to know all about my credit and they want to know about my job and they want to know about my personal finances and I'm like a lot of people feel weird, right, about that. Yeah, but a lot you know. But there's a lot of people in this county that are very liquid in terms of what you were just saying right there and doing a loan structured that way where they might have, you know, a million dollars in stock and $50,000 in the bank and they're like I don't have enough money to buy a house. Yeah, I mean, and honestly, there's a lot of agents that are going to get educated on this too, just by you bringing that up.

Speaker 1

I think so. I think it's interesting and I think that you have this image in California. What I'm learning over the last couple of years with you guys is there's an outside sort of consumer image of just people walking around with suitcases of cash and that's the market. Honestly, it's kind of what it feels like on the outside. You guys are in it every day. It doesn't feel like that to you, but when you're on the outside looking in, it's just nothing but exactly what you said Apple employees with the dollars sticking out of their suitcases, walking in and buying houses. But what I've heard over here over the last year is there's some very non-traditional and creative ways to get into a house that people aren't thinking of.

Speaker 3

Oh, absolutely Outside of that suitcase of cash.

Speaker 1

That's the thing. I think that's the best part about this podcast is, you know whether it be one person. I think they might think about it a different way and maybe it's not you know January 27th or whatever but maybe it's. You know this this year, maybe we move some things around and we can get smart about what the plan for 25 26 with this information, um, people can start game planning a different way. You know, and that's that's. I appreciate it.

Speaker 3

You know that part of it yeah, I mean and some basics right now I'm a buyer, I'm just, I'm just trying to think like a buyer. I'm listening to the podcast, right now.

Speaker 1

It's hard for you. You isn't it.

Speaker 3

It's very hard If I can only buy something.

Speaker 1

You're probably dirty and low.

Speaker 3

But credit. How important is credit right? There's a lot of people that are sitting there listening right now. They've had some issues and struggles in the past. So FICA scores let's talk about credit real quick. How important is credit? In buying a home, what is the lowest FICO score you can have? And then, more importantly, when we set up with buyers, a lot of times we have to talk about how to raise their FICO score.

Credit Score and Debt Ratios

Speaker 4

So go ahead. So 560 is going to be basically the lowest credit score you can have in order to be able to buy something. I just learned something new.

Speaker 3

You said five 560.

Speaker 4

560. Way lower FHA loan will go down to 560 credit score.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but then the rate is a lot higher.

Speaker 4

It's okay, well, hang on FHA, actually rate is better. Oh, mortgage insurance is a little bit higher, but when that delta in a lower interest rate with higher mortgage insurance, it's almost actually the same payment. Wow, exactly.

Speaker 2

There you go, Yep bankrupt seven years ago and your credit score sucks. You can get a fucking loan again.

Speaker 1

You can still get a loan, and I think the thing about it, like from a human standpoint too, is guys like you that are, you know, in the business. I think one thing people miss is that so there's it feels like there's gatekeepers. Right, gatekeepers might be the money you have in your pocket, gatekeeper might be your credit score, but the reality is is like and there's also that sort of shame that goes with it let's say somebody right now sitting on a 540. Well, they're not out. What they're missing is a game plan. What they're missing and can you talk about that? Like? Somebody comes to you and it's like at 530, but some of the other fundamentals look okay. I would imagine it's in your best interest to give them a playbook.

Speaker 4

Okay, so how do we go about getting their credit score up? Yeah, it all depends on what really is the reason for their credit scores If they went through bankruptcy, if they went foreclosure or anything like that, or if they've just had a few late payments. Yeah, so they did finally pass it that medical bills are going to be taken off the credit score. That's amazing.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's huge. Yep, didn't know that.

Speaker 4

Yep, so that just happened. Then next we'll kind of walk through the credit report and see. So first of all, now you can do what's called a soft pull. A soft pull is it does not affect your credit score at all. It does not show up on your credit score then, but he pulled it but it gives me accurate information, so called a soft pull.

Speaker 3

Then I can kind of what's a hard pull. Ask Versace Paul. You should know right, go ahead, I was waiting.

Speaker 1

I couldn't get there fast enough, I almost tipped everything over.

Speaker 2

I like a hard pull. What's a hard pull mean?

Speaker 4

Soft pull is easy. Okay. What's a hard one, then? Hard pull is you have to have that in order for an underwriter to actually underwrite the file. So you don't actually need a hard pull until you get into escrow.

Speaker 1

And it helps if you're drunk. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3

You're right. Well soft, you're kind of dating. Let me just check you out.

Speaker 2

And then if you're drunk, you ain't going to be that hard, then is it All right?

Speaker 1

I think, I just think that's fundamental Great stuff.

Speaker 3

It's not tricks I got one last little question I do and it's about buyers. I just keep putting myself in a buyer pool. Yeah, you lenders, all of you guys talk about these things called ratios. I'd like to know what ratios mean as a buyer and a real quick scenario of how high. And there's a front, I heard, and a back ratio, I heard, and what that means. Yep, and I know there's ways to structure and get those ratios lower. But just somebody who's kind of general, wanting to buy a home, what does that mean to them?

Speaker 4

So what ratios are is debt to income ratios. So we go off of gross income, not net income on a W-2 employee. So it's that income divided by all your bills determines the ratio. So let's say your income is $10,000 per month. Let's say the house payment is $4,000 plus you have an additional $1,000 in car payment. That person's debt to income ratio would be 50%.

Speaker 3

It's their bills divided by how much their income is Now the front part, if I can correct me if I'm wrong. The front part is strictly housing. The back is the housing plus that extra thousand dollars, the extra bills they have.

Speaker 4

Exactly. Older loan programs looked at front end and back end. Most these days just look at back end.

Speaker 2

They really don't really care about front end, back end. Again he is in the gutter today.

Speaker 1

You start off at the canal. It's not at all what they told me when they sent me to this podcast. They wanted me to kind of host what was going to be this Versace model sex stories.

Speaker 2

Oh, you're going to talk about sex and drugs and rock and roll, right?

Speaker 1

No really it's more just this depravity, it's this gutter part. It's just ugh Blah from a from my perspective, but I don't know what it feels like. Don't touch my button. The um. It feels like um. Is this fair to say, as opposed to like, like where we got in trouble a while ago? Is this a more responsible lending market right now you're talking about? Oh? Six over yeah oh, six is like that's the drunkard's walk. That's these extremes. I'm just talking overall. A lot of things you're talking about is is it overwhelming?

Speaker 4

a more responsible lending market right now yeah, I think it's a very responsible lending market right now just everything I've got.

Speaker 1

If they didn't learn from 06.

Speaker 4

They're fucking out yeah, that's why it's a terrible example, because that's like just that.

Speaker 1

I hate talking in extremes because that's not fair, that's not real.

Speaker 2

But it happened it was real.

Speaker 1

I'm just talking even as opposed to like in general, like maybe 30 years, 20, it just feels more qualified and responsible.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it definitely is.

Speaker 2

It's more real you have to have income to buy a house.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Dishwashers. Well, they had an income, but not enough.

Speaker 1

Yeah, still got the house, and now they're fucked.

Speaker 3

And when you guys are listening, it's like-.

Speaker 2

I had a loss, of my loss too.

Speaker 3

What we're giving you is generalities, and that's why you're going to need to call Ryan, and the reason being is because you might have a car payment and a credit card payment like the rest of us, right? That's just kind of the world, right? We all have some debts that we have, and there's creative ways of either paying those below 10 months or paying those off so you can fall into that 50% ratio? Yeah, definitely, and a lot of people don't know that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we can put links in here too. Like I said earlier, this is the first time I'm ever participating.

Speaker 4

I'll actually do the work.

Speaker 1

this time I'm going to put links in the show podcast. You just let me know after we're done, like all the right links to point them towards you. We can do all that fun stuff in the bottom, but I think it's. I think for the first time in two years. It's a worthwhile podcast that I think I might promote.

Speaker 3

And Ryan. He wants your information so he can invite you to his party. Perfect.

Speaker 4

Good, hopefully you don't want to see these two guys there and try to sell your fucking ad too. That's exactly it. So one more thing I wanted to talk about real quick. You had said the debt-to-income ratios and kind of manipulating those and have them down.

Speaker 4

So there are several times when somebody came in and they don't make quite enough money. So I'll tell them here. Here's my business card you need to go to your boss. You need to say you need a $8,000 a year raise to be able to buy here in Santa Cruz. So if you're going to stay here working, you need to go ask for this raise. They've came back. Hey, ryan, I got the raise, I can buy the house now. So hang on.

Speaker 3

Hey, paul, I need a raise.

Speaker 1

That's not going to work, it's a perfect segue to our podcast rates for 2025.

Speaker 3

So really quick before we start wrapping up, Ryan, what question should we have asked you that we didn't ask if you're a buyer that's sitting here right now listening to?

Speaker 1

this podcast Good one. You're getting good at this, Brian.

Speaker 4

Thanks. You know, when we're talking about down payment and the margin loan, my very best place to go get money from for a down payment, I think, is a 401k loan. So 401k you paid yourself back the interest, so follow me on that. There's no place in the world you can borrow money from where you're actually going to get that interest. The 401k loan they do. So what if it's 8%? You're paying yourself back into your own account at 8%.

Speaker 3

It's fucking amazing From investment side. I love this.

Speaker 4

There's your trick buddy, so you can borrow up to $50,000. Up to $50,000 maximum. You have to have $100,000 in there to borrow the $50,000. So you can borrow half of what you have up to $50,000. Brian, do you?

Speaker 1

have any interest in hosting a podcast called Real Estate Sex and Gossip Podcast.

Speaker 4

Are these guys going to be on there? Hold on, let me mute them.

Speaker 1

Paul actually won't hear us, because he just does not that smart.

Speaker 2

No, is there any other? Was that?

Speaker 3

did that satisfy.

Speaker 1

Is that where you wanted to end up, or more?

Speaker 3

Well, I mean I want him to give all his information out to the people that are listening. Yep, he's going to do it. Don't worry, we're going to go out with some red. So, ryan, it's one. Thank you for taking your time to be here. Yeah, this was fun.

Real Estate Contact Information Hype

Speaker 1

You guys are awesome. And then, right now, verbally, phone numbers, websites, instagram. This is the time where you can hype it up to all the hundreds of people that are listening. That's actually kind of true. Now, 1,500 on the last one. No, I'm telling you, it's going well Good. We're going to use Mike Howard now, because he's a lot better than you. Well, at least I can plug my phone in. So what's the phone number? What's the website? Where do they go?

Speaker 4

Yeah, phone number is 831-818-2339. That's my personal cell phone number. Wow, that's good. Second website is my name RyanBuckHoltcom, so wwwRyanBuckHoltcom. It's B-U-C-K-H-O-L-D-T.

Speaker 1

And it is their audience. So we do have to warn you that that is his personal cell phone number no canal pictures. That's awesome, boys. This was awesome. This was great. It's been too long yeah thanks, appreciate it.

Speaker 4

Thanks, ryan. Thanks, ryan Great.