Thinking Differently About Life, Creativity & Communication with Elisha Shapiro | Part 2

In Part 2 of this fascinating episode of the How to Talk to Humans podcast, communication expert Larry Wilson sits down with artist, performer, author, and professional contrarian Elisha Shapiro for a thought-provoking conversation about creativity, communication, and challenging conventional thinking. Through stories, humor, and unique life experiences, Elisha shares insights on individuality, self-expression, and the value of seeing the world from a different perspective. Larry and Elisha explore how curiosity, open-mindedness, and authentic communication can help us connect more effectively with others while encouraging personal growth and innovation. An entertaining and insightful discussion that will leave listeners thinking long after the episode ends.

Hosted by Larry Wilson
Produced by: Verbal Ninja Productions
Producer: R. Scott Edwards
Sponsored by: The Wilson Method

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Transcript

Larry Wilson 1:05

Hi, thanks for joining me again for part two of last week's show. There was so much I wanted to share with you. I didn't want to take up too much of your time. So here's all the good stuff that follows up the good stuff from part one. I wonder, did you have the same uh response to Jonathan Swift? I I think of Jonathan Swift's modest proposal.

Speaker 3 1:36

Yeah.

Larry Wilson 1:38

I don't know. I wish I knew the actual period in time. It must be a hundred years ago. And it's probably more, maybe 125 or 150 years, that uh Swift's uh modest proposal to solve the overpopulation, I think it was Irish immigrants, was that a solution would be if uh they ate their babies, then they wouldn't be, yeah, they wouldn't be suffering from you know malnutrition, and it would reduce this overpopulation.

Elisha Shapiro 2:13

Clearly satirical. I remember I remember that now that you remind me, modest proposal being something that he proposed that he was not serious about.

Larry Wilson 2:29

Right. Now, now, I mean, um this whole road that you've been on, doing all the various different things you've done, but obviously your writing kept getting better and better and better. And tell me how you wound up at Santa Monica College.

Elisha Shapiro 2:50

Um well, um I was uh working at the newspaper. I first worked at the New Art, the movie theater, and then I worked at funny little newspaper the uh Paramount Journal in the city of Paramount. Um and then I was taking a class at Santa Monica College and I can't remember what it was in. It might have been speech, might have been repairing auto automobiles. Uh anyway, I took it, I did take a speech class there. Uh, and I remember seeing uh job listings on a bulletin board, and I thought, gee, if I w and there was a job for a tutor for a at Santa Monica College, like 30 hours a week or 20 hours a week. And I thought, oh, if I took that job, I'd have more time to write and uh let I wouldn't have to be in work some, I mean, drive down to Paramount and work 40 hours a week, and I could work less, write more, that would be fun. Um so I applied for the job, got the tutoring job, and like several years, then slowly, I mean, after I I was working and being the assistant to to full-time teachers, and then uh kind of working in the same class of teaching reading, teaching writing, uh, the teachers started giving me more uh more challenging stuff to do. I w went to grad school and got a master's in what's the first one? I think I went to USC to get a master's in um writing some kind of writing thing. So I thought that'd be fun. I want to write, I went to USC has a writing program, I get a master's in writing, and after I got that like two years in USC, they said, Oh, you have a master's. Here, you can teach some classes now. And then I did, it was not the plan, but it happened.

Larry Wilson 5:13

Well, as so often happens to all of us, not the plan.

Elisha Shapiro 5:20

And after that, I was teaching part-time, being a tutor, uh, an assistant part-time. That went on for a few years. And then I thought, oh, well, I, you know, I'm kind of curious about this teaching thing. Um, and there was uh uh, what was the other school I went to? Um uh Cal State LA, I think, uh, or Cal State Northridge. They had a program in education, and I could get a master's in education. So I went and did that while I was also working. And then when I had a master's in writing and a master's in education, um, they said, Oh, well, you should we should consider you for the full-time teaching job now.

Larry Wilson 6:09

And and then i eventually it became uh highly specialized what you were teaching, yes?

Elisha Shapiro 6:16

Yeah, yeah. Well it was what I mean, I was the assistant for the uh, you know, people teaching where where the students needed extra attention. And um and because and so that was kind of the reading and writing skills thing that I ended up doing. Um because that's what I was the assistant for the teacher doing. I guess the ones who were teaching literature didn't need assistance. Ones who were teaching writing skills and reading skills did need people to like pay more attention to the individual students. So I mean I I was trained by really good teachers who specialized in that and and by getting several years of experience doing it. And then the degrees just helped. I mean, uh I'm not sure. I it's funny, like in the middle of that I was putting on the nihilist Olympics and then running for president of the United States.

Larry Wilson 7:15

Well, that's what I forgot. I forgot you ran for president, that's right.

Elisha Shapiro 7:18

So I I there was uh the Olympics were only four years, but then I had several other little nihilist art conceptual art uh things that I would follow it up with. Um, and in spite of that, they they the teachers liked me and the head of the department like encouraged me to apply for the full-time job. And uh so uh they were very nice to me there, in spite of all the newspaper articles about me doing wacky art.

Larry Wilson 7:51

What a fantastic American success story. I mean, it's crazy, it's crazy, you know, but like you say, not what the plan was.

Elisha Shapiro 8:02

Um well I mean I started that just because I wanted more time to write. And then I went to USC because they had stuff about writing and teaching you how to write. And the the USC program was really you write this, and here is what you have to do to get it published. And I said, Oh, this is really great. I have to learn how to do that.

Larry Wilson 8:24

That's great. Well, I mean, it's it's particularly helpful, I think, to people who may uh what you're saying may really resonate with them. Uh, people who uh feel a need to want to connect with people, but do not feel comfortable uh speaking to them, but have ideas and have thoughts and have all kinds of things they'd like to present in a way that other people can actually understand what they're saying. Um, as you know, I could go on with you here indefinitely because I mean this is like my bread and butter, you know, uh what you're talking about here. But unfortunately, we've we've gone on much longer, actually, than episodes of How to Talk to Humans Usually Go. But I was not going to interrupt you because I thought it was so interesting. I mean, and to me, I think the most interesting part of it was that uh what you said just in passing, oh, the school administrators encouraged you to apply for the full-time job. I mean how great that they did. Uh I have to believe there's still people like that around. You know.

Elisha Shapiro 9:55

Um there were people who were really mad that I got the full-time job and they didn't.

Larry Wilson 10:02

Oh, I definitely would have been if I was one of those people and uh knew how goofy you were, I would have said, hey man, what happened there? But uh all's well that ends well, right? Uh it's fantastic. I I I I suppose I'll have to have you on again where we can go into more of this stuff because we've barely scratched the surface. But the thing that I thought maybe was pertinent to Wilson Method, you've really shown a spotlight on, I think, that your sincere desire, which I think is uh great, um, was not altruistic or because you know you're a great philosopher or something like that. It's because you really enjoyed writing. And you wanted to do more of it. You wanted to be successful at using it to connect with people, and obviously you did. So incredible. Incredible. Now, whenever I see you, I'm gonna have to refer to you as the American success story. Uh I like it. I like it. Well ironically. I'm sorry? Ironically. Well, maybe, maybe not. Maybe I won't say whether it's ironic or not. You'll have to decide on your own. Um well, I I'm so pleased you were able to join me here for this.

Elisha Shapiro 11:37

Good to see you.

Larry Wilson 11:38

It's great to see you. You know, uh we used to live in the same city, but now we're, you know, hundreds and hundreds of miles apart. So I don't get a chance to see you, but uh I'm hoping to be back in that city sometime soon. So we'll get a chance to uh connect in real life. And we we actually got through this whole interview with very, very dignified presence. There was very little uncontrollable laughter. So I think that was uh, you know.

Elisha Shapiro 12:13

You recognize who this is?

Larry Wilson 12:16

Uh no.

Speaker 12:18

Nancy Silverton.

Larry Wilson 12:20

Oh, is it?

Elisha Shapiro 12:21

Yeah, she has a little, you know, I guess for her restaurant, she uh had a little carry-on bag or something with her face on it.

Larry Wilson 12:32

Oh, Nancy Silverton, you know, Uber chef. And uh I mean, uh that's not really doing her justice. She's much more than that. She kind of defined the whole uh movement and generation of chefs and cooking and cuisine in Los Angeles, and uh she's the sister of a woman who we knew uh yeah. Um fantastic. Well thank you again, Elisha Shapiro, and thank all of you for joining us for another episode of How to Talk to Humans. I hope we'll see you next week as we slog towards the next milestone of 50,000 downloads. Uh be sure to tell your friends, and I guess we'll get there sooner. Thanks again.

Speaker 13:31

See you later. Bye-bye.

Larry Wilson 13:36

Well done, Alicia.

Speaker 13:39

Okay, good. I'm glad that worked okay.

Larry Wilson 13:42

Oh, yeah. Wait, let me here. Stop recording. There we go. Uh, I think it went really well. You know, the thing I'm always terrified of is the technology somehow letting me down. But uh assuming that it recorded.

Speaker 13:58

We will see.

Larry Wilson 14:00

God almighty. But um, you know, it's funny. I did not know that you had two master's degrees.

Speaker 14:10

Yeah. And I guess I just got them for fun.

Larry Wilson 14:15

Well, can't think of a better reason, quite frankly. But uh it's funny. It's funny. And so what what made you think of that bag of Nancy Silverton?

Speaker 14:28

Oh, I don't know, just just because I'm looking in the uh the of the messy background behind me. Oh yes, yes.

Larry Wilson 14:35

Well, you know, it looks artistic, is what it looks like, you know.

Elisha Shapiro 14:39

Uh and this is the uh the little background for my TV show, Neil is Neil's corner. And this is, I guess I think uh uh what's the name? Um anyway, one of my girlfriends made that to be in the background of our my TV show. Oh, oh, I didn't realize. There's a poster for me running for sheriff. And oh, that's right. So I see you get this mess behind me.

Larry Wilson 15:10

I remembered that you ran for president, but I did not remember until you said it just now, you ran for sheriff also. Boy, the uh the LA Times just ate you up, didn't they?

Elisha Shapiro 15:24

Somehow giving the the the the I mean I guess that was part of the the my art is kind of just how media kind of controls the way we think and and getting ironic stuff about about cultural stuff on the media is uh just the perfect way for me to get my art out there.

Larry Wilson 15:50

Yeah, well, God knows. Sort of like um they tried to play you and you played them.

Elisha Shapiro 16:00

But the the media people liked it though. They said, okay, I'm retired of the serious stuff, let's have a little bit of the funny stuff.

Larry Wilson 16:08

Yeah, oh I'm sure they did, I'm sure they did. My God. But I remember you had like a lot of it, wasn't just like a column, you got columns and columns and columns of print. I mean, pages of articles uh about all that stuff. Oh yeah, there's a I remember there's a funny picture of you running for sheriff uh holding a gun, right?

Speaker 16:38

Yeah, in front of the uh the big donut stone. That's right, that's right.

Larry Wilson 16:43

Is that Randy's donuts?

Speaker 16:45

Yeah. I just thought cops and donuts go together.

Larry Wilson 16:50

Yeah, yeah. Oh no, it's great. God, God, I forgot that. Oh god.

Speaker 16:59

Anyway, yes.

Larry Wilson 17:01

And I remember a specific line of dialogue from the Rantic epic.

Speaker 17:08

Oh, okay. I don't go ahead.

Larry Wilson 17:10

We must learn to mutually triangulate our respective positions in the void of quiddity. Now, why I should remember that? I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 17:28

I don't know where I get stuff like that. I don't know.

Larry Wilson 17:32

I don't know. I have no idea. Well, aside from this, what else is going on, Leash?

Speaker 17:44

Oh, I am still dealing with medical shit. And that's not very fun. No, I'll bet. So aches and pains, getting old.

Larry Wilson 17:57

Um but it sounded like you're sort of on the road to recovery.

Speaker 18:02

Yeah, I mean, I was I better than I was six months ago. Um, I'm taking all sorts of different medications and talking to doctors, um, but just trying to get back to normal and I'm not quite there yet. So it is just tiring to do the stuff I normally do. I used to go see three comedy shows a week, and now I go see one. Oh god. And anyway, but I guess it could be worse. Anyway, so medical stuff. Anything else in my life? Um not anyway, yeah. House burned down in the palisades. My sister is out trying to sell the vacant lot for us now.

Larry Wilson 18:50

Oh my god, uh, I'm sure you told me, but I forgot about it. So many people we know houses burned down the Palisades. God, you remember Paul Tacoction?

Speaker 19:06

Um I remember that name. Right. Oakwood person.

Larry Wilson 19:10

No, not Oakwood, public school from but uh from Paul Revere and from Pal. His house burnt to the ground. Remember Sam Gaster, my friend? Sam Gaster? Well, he had a stroke of good fortune. He and his wife were going to uh do some remodeling in their house. Oh, so they moved everything out of the house the day before the fire. And then it all burnt to the ground.

Speaker 19:43

Similar in my family, my mother died like uh three months before the fire. And so we were we were moving bunches of stuff out.

Larry Wilson 19:54

Oh wow.

Speaker 19:55

And taking stuff and getting ready to sell the house. I don't know if you can see this behind me. Over here is a couch that was in my mother's living room that used to be my grandma's couch. Uh that I, when my parents in sixth grade sent me to LA to go to uh the weird, uh weird special school at UCLA uh for weird kids. Um I would go to my mu grandma's house, stay at my grandma's house for like six months, sleeping on that couch.

Larry Wilson 20:31

And was that uh wait, I used I used to know what that school was. Uh was it Montessori?

Speaker 20:43

No, it was like a special, it was called UCLA, some kind of academic lab or something, I don't know. But it was like where they were teachers train that they were training sit behind this mirror and like we're watching the uh professional teachers work on us. Oh, oh, well that's uh I remember remember doing fun stuff with these and like seeing a big mirror over there, and then I kind of know that there are a bunch of people sitting behind the mirror watching. That I'd have to explain why did my parents send me to that school because in the fifth grade I was not getting good grades. My parents sent me to a psychologist, he gave me an IQ test, he said my IT was too high, and I was getting bored sitting in that public school and they had to send me to some place where I'd get more at and more more active stuff in my brain.

Speaker 1 21:55

Well, I'm sure that's true. I'm sure it's true, you know.

Speaker 22:00

That's it wasn't because I was it wasn't because I was getting bad raids. But my parents wanted to know why. Sure.

Larry Wilson 22:08

No, it makes sense. It makes perfect sense. You know.

Speaker 22:13

And I guess that's how come I could convince them to send me to Oakwood later.

Larry Wilson 22:22

Oakwood. And have you have you been back to Oakwood at any time in the last 20 years?

Speaker 22:29

Yeah, they were you you weren't at the last reunion? The 50-year reunion? Anyway, I was there. Um I don't know whether I can find the picture to show you of that. But it was anyway, not that many uh people in our grade. It was like fifty year, but it was like uh twenty people from each grade from five year units or something. I don't know.

Larry Wilson 22:56

Oh, I see, I see.

Speaker 22:58

Somehow they they broke it down. But there was a cute picture, and I'm not even sure I can share it with you, but or find it. But it was I did so a couple reunions I went to.

Larry Wilson 23:11

Oh wow.

Speaker 23:13

And it's changed what the school is like. They've changed a few things here and there.

Larry Wilson 23:19

Oh yeah. Well, it's like I I think if I'm not mistaken, it's the most expensive private school in Los Angeles now.

Speaker 23:28

Maybe.

Larry Wilson 23:30

And I mean, like it's something outrageous, like I want to say a hundred thousand a year.

Speaker 23:38

Oh, I did not know that.

Larry Wilson 23:41

Maybe I'm exaggerating that, but whatever was. I mean, I I think crossroads, isn't that Paul Cummins School? Crossroads.

Speaker 23:53

My sister went there.

Larry Wilson 23:55

Yeah, I want to say that was like 30,000 or something, you know.

Speaker 24:01

But um Yeah, well, awkward it wasn't that much when we went there, so I guess my parents can afford pay out of out of their pocket.

Larry Wilson 24:10

Right. For some reason, I th I want to say it was 15,000 a year when we went there. You know.

Speaker 24:19

Sounds reasonable.

Larry Wilson 24:21

But you know, it was that whole ramshackle kind of, you know, hippie. Hippie thrown together. We were in that space that was it originally a church or something.

Speaker 24:37

There was a church across the street. I think it was like apartment hour apartment building. Oh no, the uh the one part I think might have been a church.

Larry Wilson 24:45

And then because there was that big there was the big chapel sort of room, you know.

Speaker 24:50

And the big uh kind of patio in the middle.

Larry Wilson 24:54

Right. But my understanding is that's all gone. It's all super ultra luxe now and high tech, and you know, I guess they've had some megastars uh parents who donated millions to rebuild buildings and buy adjacent property and expand. And I I even want to say, I think they bought the church across the street.

Speaker 25:26

Yeah, I think I think that when happened that was across the street became part of Oakwood, too. Right, right. I think that's true.

Larry Wilson 25:35

I thank you again.

Speaker 25:37

Yes, thank you. It was nice, nice chatting. Yeah, it was a friend of mine who wanted to listen to it. So send me the whatever the link is. Where do people listen to this?

Larry Wilson 25:50

Well, it's wherever podcasts are harvested, um which pretty much anywhere. Uh this one is hosted, I think, on Buzz Sprout, but I know that it's on Apple Podcasts, and and of course it's called How to Talk to Humans.

Speaker 26:10

All right. It was fun.

Larry Wilson 26:12

It was great, good job. And hopefully I'll be there sometime in LA at the castle or something.

Speaker 26:18

Yeah.

Larry Wilson 26:19

I would hope in the next six months. We'll see, you know.

Speaker 26:23

Let me know when you're in town.

Larry Wilson 26:25

I definitely will.

Speaker 26:26

Okay, I'll talk to you later, but all right.

Larry Wilson 26:29

See you, baby. This has been Larry Wilson. I want to thank you for spending this time with me, and I hope you found this information useful. If you're looking for more, you can find it at the WilsonMethods.com. And if you want, you can speak to me because I'm going to send me an email at info at WilsonMethods.com because I read everything. I hope that you will join us next week in this continuous journey. And you'll be with me for the next episode of August of Twitter.