What happens when passion and business collide? Join us as we chat with the multi-faceted founder of Versus Merch, Ev, who's managed to turn his hobbies into successful ventures – from LED neon signs to a hot sauce business in the pipeline. Listen in and learn how doodles turned into artwork for bands, leading to a dynamic printing business.
We discuss Ev's journey over the last decade, exploring how he leveraged his learning and failures to set up impressive projects swiftly. Uncover the secrets behind creating a workplace that fosters open communication and high morale. Get a glimpse into the calculated risks Ev took, and why not everyone is cut out to follow suit. We further delve into the complexities of collaborating with family members, and how he turned what could have been a challenge into a successful business model.
As we wrap up, we discuss Ev's innovative business model, Versus Alliance, a drop-shipping program that aims to simplify the printing and dispatch process. How did Ev manage to create all these successful companies, and what are his future plans? Tune in to find out.
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www.linktr.ee/miscellameous
What happens when passion and business collide? Join us as we chat with the multi-faceted founder of Versus Merch, Ev, who's managed to turn his hobbies into successful ventures – from LED neon signs to a hot sauce business in the pipeline. Listen in and learn how doodles turned into artwork for bands, leading to a dynamic printing business.
We discuss Ev's journey over the last decade, exploring how he leveraged his learning and failures to set up impressive projects swiftly. Uncover the secrets behind creating a workplace that fosters open communication and high morale. Get a glimpse into the calculated risks Ev took, and why not everyone is cut out to follow suit. We further delve into the complexities of collaborating with family members, and how he turned what could have been a challenge into a successful business model.
As we wrap up, we discuss Ev's innovative business model, Versus Alliance, a drop-shipping program that aims to simplify the printing and dispatch process. How did Ev manage to create all these successful companies, and what are his future plans? Tune in to find out.
Follow us on your favourite social platforms!
www.linktr.ee/miscellameous
We are. We're back again. Oh geez, that peaked a bit. Woo, yeah, we're back at versus again. Graciously, we've been allowed to use the space for a second time now, and this is a really cool space. I really like the vibe here. And today we are here with Ev, who is the owner slash operator of versus Merch, correct? That's me, yeah, and creator, that's right. I created it, your brainchild.
Speaker 2:I founded it. Yeah, that's. That's the buzzword I like to use the founder, the founder.
Speaker 1:I like that. I like that, and it's impossible to walk through here and not notice the plethora of other businesses that you have also started, and I thought it would be really cool to just get those on the table straight up. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 1:even know. Can you, from memory, name all of the business that you currently have?
Speaker 2:I'd better over. Look, most of most of these businesses are a result of just that. It's just my mind exploding as I walk around the place. So I mean, look, if you start at the very front of the building, you'll notice. You'll notice there's a, you know, a wall filled with light boxes. And then you approach the Japanese vending machine on the right hand side Yep.
Speaker 3:So I came in.
Speaker 2:I came in that day, when, when, when I planned all of those additions to the alleyway, the entrance, I I wanted up the alley and I had a mission. I had something I really had to work on that day. What happened to be missing Japan at the same time. Yep, I was like, yep, I'm going to go inside and I'm going to kick today's ass. And also, I want a vending machine and some light boxes.
Speaker 2:So, naturally, I sat at my computer and spent half the day working on trying to source those items. So that's how that came about. Yeah, it took a little bit of planning, but I managed to get them in, and then it still makes you smile every time I walk in. Yeah, absolutely, it's fun. You know, it's colorful and it and this was during COVID, or this is right, the start of COVID. So, I couldn't go to Japan, so this was the next best thing in my mind.
Speaker 3:And then you, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:So, and I guess the other, the other business stem from that same thought process was Emerald City neon. So neon, primarily LED neon sign, yes, it just, it just looks cool as shit. It's a lot of fun, it's you know, it's much easier, much safer to to install than the old school style neon because it's you know, it's a lot more hardy, it's a lot cheaper to run.
Speaker 1:And you don't have to have to have a veritable degree in glass blowing. Well, that's it. That's it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that that ended up being a product that, versus merch would offer Yep, and then it just ended up blowing up and becoming an entity of its own.
Speaker 2:So, it became its own business, just for fun. I thought let's see what we can do with that. Yep, and off it went and we've got a little shop down the road as well, with a big window full of neon. You know, full of neon, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that's just ticking away over there by itself at the moment. And then, yeah, we've got the cafe in the front.
Speaker 2:So we've got the cafe in the front, because when I got this building, it was far too big for what I actually needed it for. Yes, I thought you know it'll be cool. I'm spending the fortune on coffee every day. Yeah, we have lots of partners already that we provide merch to, that make coffee or, you know, roast coffee. Now, for years that have been coming to us to buy merchandise. Yeah, one day I made a phone call and said, hey, I want to buy something off you. So we spun it around and an idea I had turned into a cafe within I think it was two weeks. Yeah, and here we are. So we're just a little staple in Marambina now with a grungy addition.
Speaker 1:You know it's shut down, the one at the actual train station Look.
Speaker 2:Marambina don't like me very much, you know. I just keep doing me. They don't even have a choice.
Speaker 1:You keep absorbing buildings in the street.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, we're a hungry crew. We just keep moving outward in every direction. Yeah, but um, yeah, that's the guts of that's the intro to the front of the building, I guess. Yeah, so we're at four at this point. Yep, yep, yep. What else happened? There's a few other things. There's a, there's a few very small businesses that have just cropped up as a just more of an experiment than anything, and it all stems, like I said just from from. Well, really, it's just things I like, like, things.
Speaker 2:I enjoy in my everyday life, and one of those minor things is hot sauce. I wanted a reason to distribute and acquire hot sauce for myself and one day I was looking to design. You can actually see up there there's a brand hanging from that pole right there. You can't actually see it. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I see, I see, yeah, cheeky devil, yeah, I see that.
Speaker 2:It's been soft launched but it'll launch in a bigger way. You know pretty soon when I find the time to get around to it, but it was yeah, it was just a way to have another product to. You know, just an old style product that you know people, you know it's a random item that people enjoy and it's just, you know, sustainable as a business because you run out of hot sauce, you have to buy more hot sauce so you can keep selling it. You know it looks great. The labels are traditionally really cool, so you know that's on the shelf out there and that's going to launch on a, on an online sort of in an online format.
Speaker 2:So, you know, send this stuff Australia wide, worldwide. If people want to pay the shipping, yeah, and yeah, just be a little bit of a central point for hot sauce. So that's, that's another one.
Speaker 1:That's a bit random.
Speaker 2:Actually, before we continue walking past the cafe into this building, if you go down the road there's also a business called Reanimator guitars. Yes, so that was just. That's a passion project with a good friend of mine, chris. He was at a point in his life where he just was. He'd had enough of his career in well, as a nurse. He was a nurse for most of his life, most of his adult life, and he just, he just wasn't feeling it anymore. He'd been, he'd been dealt a few blows politically in that, in that area, and he was just. We just had a chat and he's he happens to be one of the best guitarists I've ever met, right.
Speaker 3:He's a fucking wizard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's an absolute nerd.
Speaker 2:He's a gear nerd, yeah, and he knows what he's talking about, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He loves to talk to. Just just to throw that out.
Speaker 1:He loves to chat. That's why you moved him down the road, exactly why he's down the road. Shout out to.
Speaker 3:Chris, we love you, chris, love you man.
Speaker 2:But you know, the other thing about that is that started out in my garage because I didn't know what I wanted to do with this building, and I had a house around the corner with a massive garage and I said just start here, because we'll start it online. You already have the contacts because, you know, chris himself has been in bands forever. Yeah, we thought we don't need a storefront, we don't need, you know, access to new audiences, so let's just start doing it, you know, promoting it amongst our circles online. And, yeah, it's just started feeding itself. And then, yeah, time went by and it had legs, so we kept going.
Speaker 2:Moved it into here and then eventually down the street.
Speaker 1:That's right yeah.
Speaker 2:Coming to here for a short time while I was trying to figure out what to do with the room we're in right now, and then the plan started emerging so we thought better kick him out, took the space down the road and, yeah, that's been really, really, you know, growing a lot, especially in the last six months or so, because we started a partnership model. So, you know, we're figuring, you know, rather than trying to hit, you know, 500 guitarists and their individual guitars. Let's go to where you know, you know, like a central points, where we can get a lot more guitars in one way or another, and that's then.
Speaker 2:for us that's been rehearsal spaces. So we launched a partnership with Three-Phase in Brunswick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because I think I've practiced there a few times. Did we just practice that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think we do, we record. Well, maybe we didn't record there, but I know, at war definitely. Well, yeah, joe and I, we are all band, we've recorded that.
Speaker 2:That's no longer there. The recording space upstairs.
Speaker 1:Oh, all right.
Speaker 2:That split out and became something else.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, yeah here we go, there, you go, you got it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I instinctively talk deeper when the mic's close.
Speaker 1:I don't know why. It sounds good, don't I? It feels good, so I'm just going to keep doing that, yeah.
Speaker 2:Richard.
Speaker 3:Mercer, over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm scared, you know, as you guys know well, I've been singing in bands for a long, long time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Close. You get some of me off the heart or I scream.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I just think I want to yell, so I get a little scared yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you come from a lower point in your diaphragm as well, so yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you, I get you, yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyway that was so we got yeah. So where are we?
Speaker 1:We did Emerald City, yep, we did the guitar one. Which was what, sorry?
Speaker 2:Reanimator Reanimator, reanimator.
Speaker 1:Reanimator. Okay, and then we were going to continue walking through the building to where we are now Exactly.
Speaker 2:So well, I mean before we come all the way through to the back, here you can go upstairs and there's a tattoo studio yes, Hidden. Throne tattoo is up there now.
Speaker 1:I wanted to talk about this actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you've done tattoos right, Like you yourself have tattooed at least a decent amount.
Speaker 2:I have. I have, I reckon, about 15, 20 tattoos under my belt, so I'm not a tattoo artist.
Speaker 1:No, per se Per se, but you've done it, I have.
Speaker 2:I have tattooed.
Speaker 1:Which is remarkable to me that you can. I mean you. You inherently are an artistic person, though, and you can do like illustration and graphic design.
Speaker 2:I guess. Well, that's my, that's my wheelhouse, that's my background.
Speaker 1:That's like Graphic design. That's where your original skill set came from.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's what led to versus, like I was scribbling on, you know, the corner of my books and I'm that guy that was drawing in the corner of my books in high school and they said that's not going to get you anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, look where I got it. Yeah, I see they were right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not in this case, baby. My drawings were shit. Yeah, well, look I. I.
Speaker 2:I just, I just, it was always scribbling away, it was always drawing, yeah, and yeah it as I as I left, I guess, no, well, I guess, towards the end of high school I started getting into bands, and those are those last few years, yeah, and found out that, you know, I didn't trust that people would really pay me for artwork, but my mates and shit bands would let me draw for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's how that started. And so I just started doing, you know, artwork for whatever they needed T-shirt designs, album covers, posters, whatever it may be. Yeah, and just sort of. You know, that was just a, if anything, a hobby from you know, 16, 17 through to my early twenties, yeah.
Speaker 1:In temos que You're not allowed hobbies anymore.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Kind of a hobby, unless it's making you money.
Speaker 2:That's it but yeah, continue, yeah. So that's basically where that was the start of the evolution of verses, I guess, because I'm jumping now, I'm jumping forward to verses. Where was I talking about the Taddu studio? Yeah, we're upstairs.
Speaker 2:So that was more of a joint effort. That was definitely a joint effort with my little brother. My little brother's name is Ian and he's an amazing Taddu artist. This is his thing. He's been doing it for a long, long time. He was working at another studio, giving them a large percentage of what he was earning, and he was doing his own admin. He was getting his own client base and thought I might break away and set up something on his own and I had the means and the space to do it. So we gave it a bash and he's been operating out there for a few years now. Covid knocked him around a little bit, as it did the whole industry, but he's still up there.
Speaker 1:That's a rough industry for COVID lockdown. That's tough.
Speaker 2:Well, you're touching people. Yeah, you can't do it. You weren't supposed to. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but in that one meter A lot of people don't understand how Taddu shops work, Like you did actually just say just then. But a lot of people don't realize that you effectively rent a chair when you work at a studio, Like you either have to. I mean, it is different and you organize it like differently with whoever owns the shop, but you have to either pay for the chair and pay for the location or you pay percentage. So you know, and it does, it cuts a lot of profit. Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 2:I think you either pay a set amount or, most commonly from my knowledge and from what I've been told by friends or artists, is that they give a predetermined percentage of their earnings every week, regardless of what that amount is yes, and then you have to go to the shop and the shop in return, however, deals with all the admin stuff. They're traditionally like, say, a walk-in shop. You know they've got a person at the counter, they don't have to deal with that. Someone answering the phones. Yeah, they take all the things. Yeah, we'll take the book, but also do the marketing and the advertising to get more work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, socials, stuff yeah, and look with Instagram and things like that. I guess in my brother's case, for example, he didn't really need that because he was gathering his own audience and I bet that's a pretty common thing. So he decided to take the plunge and, like I said, I helped him set that up and, yeah, it's been kicking us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, apart from that little COVID break there. Yeah, he's been kicking on, so that's been fun and it adds to the whole vibe of the building, Like already we're talking about how many little bits and pieces are here. If you're to come down and visit this place, you know it looks fun, it's interesting. You walk up the alley, you see in these light boxes, these Japanese vending machines, you see a tatoo neon sign up in the window Like it has a cool vibe to me, and especially in an area like this. It's a long way from Brunswick but it's got that grungy vibe that isn't present, it does have that Northside vibe, well, yeah yeah, and it's just trying to make something out of nothing.
Speaker 2:That was the whole idea here, and I think I a lot of people have said to me that they don't know how I came up with that concept. But it's not something that I came up with. That's something I've seen when I've traveled around the world. So you go to, like I said before, I love Japan. I've traveled extensively through the third world. You know, you got a space. You've got to fill it out. You've only got what you got. Yeah, this building was far bigger than I thought I was going to end up with, but this is a very large warehouse it is.
Speaker 1:It's exceptionally big and there's a lot of stuff in here and the amount of like merchandise you must churn through is astounding. Just based on what I see and I do come here like semi-frequently and I can see that, like you know, it's not just the same boxes that are sitting in the same places every time. Like you know, you've got a fucking pile of boxes over here one day. Two days later it's gone. You know the stuff's moving through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, even if you were to have an empty space, it would only be for a period of time until the new stuff comes in, right Like it's just yeah, Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:And, funnily enough, like Joe you would have seen today. So obviously Joe works here as well. Yep, so he's here at Versus Merch, but today Follow him to the talk. Yeah, yeah, he's here to hear something on the socials, you would have seen today what we had the guys loading out the 80, 90 boxes or whatever it was that appeared. You know that stuff's rotating through every day now and it's as much as I'm now getting used to that flow, it still, every once in a while, hits me. I'm like holy shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, this happened Cause I started this on my couch.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know this is an idea on my couch, with some outsourced partners and me just having a chat to whoever would listen and just trying to join some dots and see how it could grow, crazy thing is as well.
Speaker 3:You're going to definitely going to outgrow this place we already have, I think, yeah, well, yeah, exactly Like I'm looking at the boxes, that where they shouldn't be right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had to record this on a different table Because there were too many boxes yeah.
Speaker 3:It's in front of my sign.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love my sign, I love this sign. You know what?
Speaker 2:That was a key moment for me, man.
Speaker 1:That is a really good sign, though I actually I think that is one of the better feature pieces I've seen in almost any workplace that I've gone through. Thank, you.
Speaker 2:That means a lot to me.
Speaker 1:And in my workplace they literally, literally have a picture of me on the wall. Oh my God, I forgot about that and I still think that's better. So you jump me on a trampoline.
Speaker 3:It is, yeah.
Speaker 1:They just jump on a trampoline and then they remove the background and put us all together. Wow. It's fucking horrible, it's so fucking corny man and it's so stupid. And they told me it was going to go on a billboard and that was it and it was going to be up for like six weeks and then they fucking put it on the wall. So when you go up the lift, you walk out and it's right there.
Speaker 2:But does it achieve the goal that I think they might have set out for you? Does it uplift you when you walk in and see this it doesn't.
Speaker 3:It doesn't do it. Okay, it doesn't have to talk to HR man, it doesn't have to do with anything though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so. You know like I could go on about my company and the gripes I have with it, but your feature wall is very, very nice. I actually think it's a really cool look.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bro, I'm just spewing it. You can't see it because of all the boxes, but you know the box is a photo for socials.
Speaker 3:Please do.
Speaker 1:We'll do photos in front of it or post them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the sign, so versus was the original yeah.
Speaker 1:So, this is where it comes from, this is where it starts. Yeah, and it's interesting, before I asked you that, I would have just assumed that anything that is now a byproduct of your original idea of being versus, I would have assumed it that you would have just made them have their own offshoots because they would be buried by what versus is. So if you were trying to sell, like your hot sauce through versus, you know, or you were trying to sell merch for that through versus, you would it just kind of get buried by it, right, because versus is its own beast and it's the main sort of like gear. That's it, and the other ones are the smaller gears that just kind of you know, are powered by the larger one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, they're just my look. I don't set any of these other side projects up, for we've aim of, you know, to achieve massive success. They're just. They're just additional fun things, they're just projects you know, and during the last I mean versus turn 10 this year.
Speaker 1:Yep, oh my God yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild, but that's. That's 10 years of me, you know, going through business processes and learning and failing and picking myself up and whatever else. And and I've learned, because I don't think I'm a business genius of any source, I think I'm just stubborn enough to keep going. Right, I've got a little bit of common sense about me, so I'll spot something now before it becomes a problem because of things that went wrong in the past. These little offshoot things. I can sort of look at it and set it up very quickly because I know how to do that now. So I'm reusing the same information over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To do things I like. That's all, and in the process I get to employ friends or like-minded people that want to get out of there. They're boring.
Speaker 2:Nine to five or find something a little different and I've also got a real emphasis here on feelings and how we all feel, like we should come to a workplace where if you have any kind of issue, you should be able to talk about it openly, and you have a day where you're just not feeling or you're not hitting the goals that you're supposed to feel safe to bring that up and actually and a lot of this stuff to my detriment probably if I was a more stern person, or if I was a more traditionally-minded business person, maybe our revenue would be 10 times what it is now, but it works for us.
Speaker 2:We're succeeding and we're only growing. The trajectory is up, it is going, and I could be happier than With what how it's been panning out.
Speaker 1:I think you're in the right headspace. I feel like you know keeping the general psychology of your workplace at a as high as it sort of can be, bearing in mind that you know you are sort of coming into work every day and you know sometimes you don't want to come to work, whatever. That is what it is. But as long as you're not waking up in the morning and dreading like going into the office, you know, like as long as you're not that person, that's like the best you can hope for in any sort of workplace. Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:That's. That's something I talk about a lot. I haven't dreaded a Monday for 10 years. Yeah. You know, it was scary at the start. I took a calculated risk because I was and look, I didn't start from absolutely nothing. I overlapped my previous job because I knew there was a redundancy in that case Looming, and I thought, right, I'm going to start working on this side project. Yeah, and I had, you know, really low goals. I was little things like how can I pay off my phone bill this month?
Speaker 2:You know just just really low targets, just because I didn't know who I was in that realm yet. Yep, I thought if I could start there and, you know, make a couple of hundred bucks while I'm still employed, great, you know, got a redundancy so I had a little bit of backup money, so that's. That's something a lot of people don't have. But over this last 10 years, I can tell you right now that if you took away any or all of my funding and said, start something fresh tomorrow and monetize it as quick as you can because you don't have a backup plan, I can do that. I know how to do that. And again, it's just because of all the lessons that I've learned along the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm really big on encouraging people to chase their dreams. I encourage people to talk to me if they have an idea, because I genuinely love the idea of, you know, helping people break out of whatever cycle they're stuck in that they're not happy with. Yeah, I've also learned not to not to hand that advice out too sparingly and only because I don't want to give anyone some false confidence if they're not actually capable at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and achieve it because I hate to see somebody fall over. Yeah, that's definitely one of those things right, because you can't guarantee that the next person's going to have maybe the ethic or follow through that you have. That's right. So you can't just tell everyone to quit their job and do it. You know, like, in the reality is that not everyone can do it. Right, that's, that's absolutely right. Yeah, like I know that I'm one of those people. I've come to terms with that many, many years ago. Like, I'm very happy being a cog, I like to be a well oiled one and I have a lot of pride in that. But I know that if I was to step out on my own and start my own business, I don't think that I would be able to push it in as such a. You know, push that rock uphill like you have for the last 10 years to a point where you're actually seeing those benefits come back.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure, and that's something I've learned as well. I really admire your ability to be a well oiled cog, because you know what.
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not at all. I'm no good at it.
Speaker 1:There's not many people like you that are, to be honest, I'm not, but the thing is, you need to be that person who has the ideas and has the knowledge. You don't need to be the person that does that shit every single day, because that's not where your headspace is. Then that's not where your strength is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's true, that's.
Speaker 1:Jamie's greatest weakness continuing to do something.
Speaker 3:Without a mic, too, can't even defend himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's right. I really enjoy that about myself now and I'm grateful I've got a team Embrace it.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I embrace that now and I can do so and enjoy it more than ever, because I've got such a good team around me that I know will help me fulfill those goals. Because I definitely got to a point at about year six or seven where I feel like I just started cruising because I didn't have what it took to put new process in place and stick to them. Yeah, because, like we just said, that's not me.
Speaker 1:I need to be spitting ideas out and spinning in circles and whatever else you can give that to someone to have them champion that.
Speaker 2:That's right. They can champion that process, which enables me to let go of it and move forward and start spinning in more circles over there instead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and that's yeah, but it takes all types right, because if you don't have those two people, the money doesn't roll in. That's it. You need those people, and it is really interesting that you have a workplace full of friends as well, because a lot of people say not to do that.
Speaker 2:I'd say not to do that too now. I do, I do, I think a really good friend of mine that has a lot of experience. His name is James and I'll make him listen to this later and love me for it. He has a lot of experience with team building and employing people within startup sort of businesses and whatnot.
Speaker 2:And he said it to me not that long ago really. He said that any failings of people that you employ and this is not the exact quote, this is me murdering it but he basically said that if I hire somebody and they fail at that, and that's just as much on me, if not more on me, for hiring a person that are not observing that they're not the right person for the job, right, you know.
Speaker 2:So that's, I've fallen down that trap because I'm very hard on my sleeve and you know, people wanted to change, or I'm very, I'm very passionate as well when I'm talking about this stuff so I can easily talk somebody into loving the idea yeah, you know that I'm currently on when in actual reality, they don't and they're just getting swept up in my excitement. And then if I'm, if I'm failing to read that and you know, let's say, make a change and then take them in, yep, then I've just made things really hard on both of us. Yeah, and it's just not going to end well and unfortunately that's happened before. You know that's. I've got a few sad stories. You know we're friends where. You know, I wish I had, you know, better knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yeah Of that subject earlier, but you know, all I can do now is move forward and I know better. So yeah, you're right, hiring friends is great and it is a unique way to go about it, and there's definitely been success stories. There's been a few failings as well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean that really determined by the individual and their efforts that they put in as well. Jamie and I have worked for company previously and they brought a family member in at a more senior position than mine was and, with no understanding of how the business operated, tried to start stipulating things to do and it really just kind of ripped the company up from the ground. And that's kind of tough because, you know, I have direct, you know, communication with the owner, but it's his father-in-law in this circumstance. So, you know, what do I? Where he's you? Literally in a situation where he's just like what do I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We've had similar things because we have quite a few employees now who you know they are hired straight off the street. They're not, you know. They just went through the standard application process and interview process and whatnot, and their observations are, you know, I guess, humorous, because they look around and go you're all friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, Luckily, they become our friends too, you know, and that's what should happen. And but it does change the dynamic of the place. Yes, it means I have to, you know, start, you know behaving in a particular way, you know in a more professional way, unfortunately, but that's just how it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah.
Speaker 1:That's why you're in your own office now. That's why I'm now upstairs.
Speaker 2:Because I used to sit in front of my sign. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that sign by the way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you see, but I do, I was very proud. It's a good sign. It's a very good sign. I'm proud of that sign.
Speaker 2:That was a. I just want to talk about the sign for a moment. That was the most. That was the cleanest cut version of the versus logo that I'd you know acquired to date. It wasn't just a you know, an image on the internet or something. This was a tangible backlit sign on a big green wall and I that I it really stuck with me. I'm like look at this, yeah, and I bought the fanciest chair I could find from IKEA.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Because I didn't, you know.
Speaker 2:I spent too much on a chair, yeah. But it's there, it is over there. Yep, Snap, just covered in shit, yeah, yeah. But I sat it in front of the sign and I said someone take a photo of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that exists out there somewhere. Yeah, it's a fancy, fancy fucking photo.
Speaker 1:That's a. That's a core memory moment. That's like it. Yeah, that was a turning point for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It took you a lot. It took a lot to to get you upstairs. This is my lifeblood. Yeah, this is just what I know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know I know everything about this business Because it's obviously it all came out of my head.
Speaker 1:So, I'm.
Speaker 2:it's hard and I guess I have to trust and allow people that come into this business to take ownership of their roles and just walk away and go. But it's hard, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard.
Speaker 1:At Disney, when they write movies, normally the movie is written by one person, but then they pass it through like it does another people that work within the studio and they all make their changes, because this is something that's come straight out of your heart. And then other people are taking it and kind of changing it just that little bit and it's not exactly how you envisioned it, but they're just changing it that little bit and each next person moves in and then the end result is what we get. You know, it's cinemas and it's that collaborative thinking makes it accessible to a broader audience and that can be applied to any place. Absolutely, can be applied here.
Speaker 2:Because those moments where I am feeling confident, just to walk away and let it be and let my teams do what my teams do, magic has happened, you know and really obvious things too that I'm like oh shit, what did I think of that? Because I'm too busy you know just running through, you know running my way.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, no, you're right, it's very hard to let go. And you're right, Joe, it's very hard to get me up there. But I'm doing so much work now that I'm not sitting amongst everything and I'm just observing things or criticising things and I don't think I was ever too critical either, but I'd spot things right over here. One thing that I knew was wrong and it did just just go off. I go. No, it's good having a focus up there now, and I've set up some amps and a drum kit up there.
Speaker 3:So you know no distractions. So there's no distractions really anymore, which is nice, and a TV, and a TV about eight neon signs. It's a fun room. Original Super Nintendo in there. There is still in its box, though.
Speaker 2:Still in its box.
Speaker 1:Those around. I've got spare ones, just in case. I've got three. I've got one good one.
Speaker 3:I've got two spare ones just in case.
Speaker 1:I had to harvest it for parts.
Speaker 2:one time I've got a second one as well that's unopened. I sort of add an op shop somewhere. I'm like I'm taking you.
Speaker 1:It's unlike one of those guys that owns like three Taranas except they're Super Nintendo's One's up on blocks in your front yard no wheels. Yeah, yeah yeah. That's where I came from. I just read the opening of Disneyland in Melbourne. This is news to me, I was aware of how big that was, just to throw it out.
Speaker 2:But you brought up Disney Just moments ago, all moments before we started recording tonight. Well, I'm not sure exactly what's the? Bend called. Is it Fisherman's Bend? Is it what it's called?
Speaker 3:No idea. Jamie can you give me a fact check? He's using the phone to record, but yeah, no, that's just, If you notice that's not an SLR.
Speaker 1:That's a telephone. He's got more than one phone.
Speaker 2:I like opening businesses I thought I'd open a Disneyland in Melbourne. No, that's not my one.
Speaker 3:That's not my one.
Speaker 2:I've got a door to the test with Disneyland right now. So it's good because we're trying to figure out how to plan a trip overseas to take us.
Speaker 1:I might not need to. If I knew they were open in Disneyland in Melbourne, I wouldn't have paid for those fucking cruise tickets. Those things were like 12 grand for three people the fuck.
Speaker 2:Anyway, can we find some info?
Speaker 3:I didn't make it up I promise Disneyland could be coming down under in what would be the final piece of the puzzle Officially making this city the happiest place on Earth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what we do deserve a Disneyland. However, rides will be rough in this state. You know what I mean. It rains like eight months of the year, so you know like the rides are going to be like. That's true. I could. Maybe poncho sales would go up. I could sell Disney ponchos.
Speaker 3:Where is he, says Fishman's Bend?
Speaker 1:Where the fuck is Fishman's Bend.
Speaker 3:I have no idea where that is.
Speaker 1:That's my, that's me kissing it Big fishing guy. God, Jeff, he's giving us the stop that.
Speaker 3:Port Melbourne.
Speaker 1:Port Melbourne Okay.
Speaker 3:Fishman's Bend.
Speaker 1:Holy shit, that's amazing. I mean, obviously it'll be a long time from now, it's not?
Speaker 3:confirmed.
Speaker 1:But that would be what a great rumor.
Speaker 2:Sorry about that, so it's not happening.
Speaker 3:It just could happen. Lots of things could happen. That comic could finally come and hit us.
Speaker 2:We almost had one Weird.
Speaker 1:The footage is so cringe worthy, Like it's all from like Australia and it's all these people like American people watching it and then it's just like Bogans. Yeah, they all think we speak like that already.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but we do Holy shit, like we all. The fuck is that.
Speaker 1:We definitely have accents, but we don't have like what they interpret our accents to be, and I feel like they're getting a really negative representation of what our culture is like. You know what that's unfair. Most of our culture is like that. I'm just now rethinking that.
Speaker 3:As I'm saying it, it would have been so much better if it was like full. You know western suburbs, oh my God.
Speaker 1:See as a multicultural country. Yeah, that would be way more fitting that would be. Yeah, like I really feel like people from overseas fail to see that portion of our culture. They we have a lot of blended cultures that are part of our tapestry and all they think of us is like you know, krikey and and writing kangaroos to work and shit. Yeah, we have a broad culture spectrum and I'm proud of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fuck it. It's a very multicultural country.
Speaker 1:I just don't like bogey stuff because I grew up that way Too close to home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's too much for me.
Speaker 1:So, versus being the major and the original, then you started a new one as of like literally a couple of weeks ago, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've. So I started a touring company.
Speaker 3:I don't know, emery, it's funny, I promise it works.
Speaker 2:And so here's the thing about all of these things In my head they all, they all interlink, and I guess they interlink because of my connections. That's the primary thing here. So it's the people I've met along the way. It's a combination of people I've met during, you know, day-to-day business, say with Versus or my previous jobs, and then the I guess the other part of my life has been playing in hardcore bands. So that happened alongside all of this. And so I've, you know, on weekends or whenever I could take the time, I'm on tour and, you know, for the last, you know, 15 years, I guess maybe longer, 20 meeting people from bands and you know, making those sort of connections there.
Speaker 2:Lucky enough to have been overseas quite a few times now to tour meeting people overseas and then just I think I'd love a chat.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I genuinely want to know about people, so I ask questions. You know all the good stuff that actually connects people, yeah, and just organically.
Speaker 2:That means, you know, that means growth and that means opportunities. And what ended up happening recently is I mean, look, I've always I love hardcore music, I love hardcore and punk and it was. I am one of those stories that will say you know, you know, this saved my life, but it kind of, in a way, it did because I grew up as a person of color in a country town, you know, Shepardon in rural Victoria and Cairns in Far North Queensland.
Speaker 1:Cairns. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, there's no room for non-white people in.
Speaker 2:Cairns. No, there wasn't much room for me in these two places. So I, you know, I always felt like I was on the out because I was told I was regularly. But in high school, I, you know, I started connecting with some guys that were. They looked different to everyone else. They, you know, were on skateboards and they had spiky hair. They listened to loud music and told everyone to fuck off, but they didn't to me. They sort of let me in and that's when, you know, some really good friends. They became really good friends, you know, introduced me to this whole new world of music. Up until then, I always loved music. I was always listening to music. Growing up I've always loved to sing.
Speaker 2:That was just a thing that just came naturally for me. And I remember my parents saying you know, where are you picking this up from? Like you sing along to everything. And I didn't know. My parents loved music too, but they didn't know why either. They just sort of they liked what they liked. So you know, it wasn't over-exposure to music, but it was always present. But then you know, discovering this hardcore music and hearing people singing about their friends, suddenly. So my exposure previous to that was just you know, more popular music. But suddenly I'm hearing this music that's loud and aggressive. But then, when you dig down into what they're saying, they're talking about making changes, they're talking about politics, they're talking about not fitting in, they're talking about their friends. And I thought that's crazy. I didn't know you could write about that stuff. I didn't think that's what you wrote about love or you know whatever.
Speaker 2:You know all the common themes and that was really eye-opening to me and you know so I made these new friendships and you know it was exposed to more and more of this music and you know, along the way, loving seeing that I love to sing, there was always an element of me that loved to listen to melodic music.
Speaker 2:So it was always sort of that skate punk sort of element for me, stuff that you could sing along to and you know nice, you know uplifting sort of stuff I guess. But there's always this other part of me that was getting into the heavier stuff, the angrier stuff, because I was kind of pissed off. You know, and I still am to this day there's a lot of things in this world that I'm not stoked on. There's a lot to be pissed off about, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's right, and what a great way to vent that yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and you guys know this because you guys come from the same sort of background. What? A healthy way to vent your anger and your rage. You know what's interesting is like hardcore music in. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but I know in.
Speaker 1:Australia. It's a lot of people are like like in other countries, but I know in Australia and like we've played shows together, we've gone on tour together like previously. And it's interesting because like I know Giuseppe's background in the music that he loved he came from like metal and he listened to like Metallica and anything in that sort of spectrum and then that came to the middle and it kind of eventually met with hardcore at some point. Right, and I came from the other spectrum. So I came from like Pop Punk and I got like into like post-hardcore and then that eventually met in the middle with hardcore. So you've got like these dudes who have all kind of come from these different backgrounds. They make music together which does make a more melodic hardcore.
Speaker 1:And hardcore music inherently is just so passion driven that I can't fathom why people don't like it. And I understand that people have issues with screaming and stuff like that in music. But when you listen to how the songs are put together, in the way that they push forward, they're so passionate and driven that it just it feels like there's a swelling inside you that makes you want to like run for, like miles and miles and miles or something like that. You know, and then, yeah, it's just interesting to see that from those two backgrounds they eventually just got somewhere in the middle and then they just came together.
Speaker 1:And now you know that doesn't really rear its head until later life and like I've realized that I never really liked metal, I never really listened to it. And then, but I've played so much hardcore and I've been into hardcore for so long, and now in my later life, going back and listening to these back catalogs of bands that I've never bothered to listen to, like I never like, even just like really popular ones. I'd never listened to Lama God before because I was like, ah, nah, too metal for me, and now I listen to them and.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, this is like good, you know Like why was?
Speaker 3:I not listening to this, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, shit like that. So it's interesting. I like to see where those people's backgrounds came from and how they eventually ended up there, because in Australia, hardcore and like I guess you would say what was that thing? Melodic hardcore, I guess was just like the thing. Everyone played that and nothing but that for a good 10 years. That was it? Yeah, and it was.
Speaker 2:Uh, it was thriving Like it was around the period when we probably would have met.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I met you, Joe, because you joined my band at the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then by default, I would then meet Liam and those circles and it felt like there were an endless amount of us.
Speaker 3:You know, it was just you know.
Speaker 2:And that's probably because we were younger and we were more active, and there was, you know, I could tell you right now. Then that's something I'll probably go into shortly, but, um, you know, it's still happening now.
Speaker 2:We just, we're just you know we're out a little bit, but yeah, I've now got an opportunity to do some things, uh, and sort of give back to that. So, uh, it's exciting. So the syndicate the syndicate touring, is what I've named it Yep, uh, the reason I've named it, that is because I mean, look, I've been exploring who I am and what I want to do and what direction I want to go in professionally. I guess for a little while Now, joe, you've been privy to that and I keep coming back to this one thing I'm sort of I'm a connector.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm a central point and I'm, and I'm if I'm not connecting things to my own businesses, I'm connecting others that I know to each other. Um, because I could just see, you know a way for everyone to be working together. And I spot that stuff and that's one of one of my favorite things about myself is that I can see an opportunity or spot a gap and go why is no one doing that? And or, if I do, dare wonder out loud uh, you know, when it comes to say a solution to a problem people are having, finally say it out loud and the people that have been experiencing will turn around and go oh shit, that would work. I'm like sick.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it turns out, I've got a head for this Syndicate is that for me, it's a, it's a chance and I think I think it's going to be a focus for me to become my main business. So versus versus Merch has done me well for 10 years. It's not stopping, it's only going to grow. We've got partnerships lined up that are going to propel this through the roof, um, uh. But then you know, with my newfound ability to start to let go and let a team manage it.
Speaker 2:For me it means I can go off, and that's what happened here Recently. I've I've started um, delegating a lot of my usual tasks to the people here, which, unfortunately, it left a little gap in my head because I wasn't as busy, so I filled it instantly with a brand new thing, and that's the syndicate and I and I don't mean to do that I feel, I feel things just slot in it's.
Speaker 2:It's like when you take a you know take, you know an angled shelf or product and you pull the front one off and they just slide in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's how that's how my head feels all of the time. It's like I've got this backlog of things and I'd never forget them either. I've got, I've got, I've got lists, I've written them all out, but I still I just I don't need them, I don't think, cause I've got all these things that just live there. Yeah, and if I can find a way to take one of the things in the front out, the next one just slots in. And that's what happened with the syndicate.
Speaker 1:So after am I wrong to say that when you started versus, it was specifically to sell merch to bands?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so oh well, yeah, to touch on that really quickly, cause we didn't really go through that I was doing, I was doing design work in illustration for fun for bands Yep. I got told that my corporate job I was going to be made redundant, yep. So I thought, shit, what am I going to do now? Yeah, and I actually said that out loud to a few of my friends, you know, just in conversation. I'm like shit, I don't know what's next for me. And there was a, an old mate of mine I haven't spoken to Tom in a while, but Tom, his name is Tom Mille Roy from from a band up in Newcastle. Yeah, that we used to tour with a lot. It was actually him that said to me you've been doing free work for us for a long time. Why don't you, why don't we start paying you for your design work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, yeah, you reckon. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we'll pay you for that. We love your work and we'll support you, especially cause you need something new. I reckon you should start something. So I said, yeah, okay, I'll give it a bash and again, that's a butterfly effect moment right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. He's just changed the trajectory of your life by saying I'll pay you for your illustration.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and and, and. You know, I developed imposter syndrome immediately and I've got, I've got it to this, I've got it to this day. You know, if you want to talk about, you know, mental health issues, I'm, I, I'm my biggest doubt. I think that's pretty common amongst most people, but, god damn, I just I don't a lot of the time, I don't understand how any of this has happened. Yeah, but then I'll snap out of it and just get on with it and it works. But yeah, he, like you said, changed the trajectory of my life right there, and then I thought I'll give this a bash and started the merch business. But what I straightaway started doing was, well, I only know limited amounts. I know a lot of bands, but they're all poor hardcore dudes that don't have a lot of money. Yep.
Speaker 1:So I wonder what yeah.
Speaker 2:So, what do they do what?
Speaker 3:do? They can borrow your back.
Speaker 2:Can I borrow your drumsticks?
Speaker 1:Yeah, tell us a really embarrassing story. Yeah, I had to borrow drumsticks because I lost my mind. And that is the bottom of the barrel. And I borrow your drumsticks is like the lowest.
Speaker 2:I thought you made it up. That's how low it was.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's so if there was any way I could have gone to a store to bought some drumsticks, I would have done it, but it was like literally 30 minutes before we went to play and I left my drumsticks at a previous venue which I had a specific drumstick bag for, and I had to borrow drumsticks like a fucking pauper man, that's rough, that's rough. For my custom drum kit. I feel bad. I brought that up.
Speaker 2:That's even better. I feel bad. I brought that up. That's awful. I'm not embarrassed about it.
Speaker 1:It was embarrassing at the time. At the time it was like fuck man Actually, literally begging someone for something, and the thing is like the way that I played drums, I knew in my heart that he wasn't getting those sticks back. They were dead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they were fucked. Yeah, she's just from the get go. Yeah, I bought him new ones I was about to ask that, did you at least?
Speaker 2:buy new ones. I'm not poor. I bought new ones.
Speaker 1:I found the brand. He was using this brand that I can't remember the name of it, but they were called like Try Something, and their whole thing was that they came in a pack of three instead of a pack of two. Yeah, so they were pretty easy to find. I can't remember the exact brand name, but, yeah, I got some for him and I even to this day remember like what the sticks were.
Speaker 2:Why did they do that? Why a third, in case you break one?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that to me they're losing money.
Speaker 1:It's weird.
Speaker 2:Instead you're why just not buy a whole? You'd buy another set.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it was one of those things where, like the shot of shells in the foot, you know how crumpets get sold in packs of five so that you buy two packs. I think it was kind of like that.
Speaker 2:Ah, so okay, you're right, I'll see what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so their expectation was you would buy two packs and you would have, like you know, three pairs. That's what I assumed at the time.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I guess we'll just be selling Lucy's. They were like Lucy's Just chucking behind there, Chucking behind the counter.
Speaker 1:Dude, I've been that guy. I've been the guy buying the Lucy's. I've been that guy, I've been that guy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was when I was like. That was when I was first starting in bands. I was young, though I didn't have a job. So, like buying Lucy's out of the bin, Fuck, as long as there was the right thickness, it was good enough for me. You really? It's funny. I haven't thought about this for many years, but you really do develop, and this is with guitar as well, right, Because you like you start to develop like you know string, brand thickness, picks, how you know what, what like, like how thick or soft you, or how large your pick is. Even you know stuff like that. But sticks are the same thing. Man Like I ended up just using slabs of wood. But the longer I played drums, the less the less parts of the drum kit I used when I first started, man did.
Speaker 1:I add all the toms. I had a fucking splash out of bell over here At the time I finished playing drums. I had three drums, three cymbals. I was done.
Speaker 2:That's because you were drumming with slabs and you couldn't move them. Yeah, yeah I don't know it's too heavy.
Speaker 1:I just sick of setting it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, drummers are the absolute worst.
Speaker 3:Yeah, dude, it's tough and the cases are so fucking hard to use.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ah, fuck man, that was a fun little side story. We're all right. No, no, please.
Speaker 1:I love that shit. Yeah, we're at Versus, so you started. You started printing for bands originally after your friend changed your career trajectory.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, so Versus in its original format was a design company. Ah, so you weren't printing yet no Okay all right, it was that came about, not long. It didn't take long because word spread fast and I had. I found the courage to actually advertise that I was an illustrator. Yeah, that was hard. By the way, that took a lot. I felt embarrassed every time I put a post up. Yeah, hey guys, you know, and sometimes people would talk to me like oh, is it ever? Is it going, okay, Ev?
Speaker 2:And it made me feel a little bit ashamed and I was like oh yeah it's all right and it was going well and I had no reason to feel ashamed, but there was something about just like asking for help, Like people. Some people find it really hard to sell because they don't want to sound like they're begging for it. Fuck that shit. Ask you know what I mean. Like as long as you're not hurting anyone you ask, you know, or be strategic about who you ask.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that worked well. That kept going and because of that, I had a large amount of work coming in and I was, I was constantly, I was hunched over dexter drawing or designing, just constantly, which is what I wanted. And then, you know, I Eventually got approached by one too many bands who are designed for saying, you know, they all ask the same question after they have their pieces, like where can we get this printed? Yep? Um, I don't know. Google it.
Speaker 2:You know, I used, you know I used to use so and so or whatever it was yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, and then eventually it became clear that there was. There wasn't a lot out there. Well, and and there, there've always been a lot of screen printers and companies like that. Um, but they, they weren't advertising to me. I started realizing they're not advertising enough or in the right way to be found. Yeah, be accessible, because I'm being asked this question a lot. Yeah, a lot of people are saying where do I go? Where do I go? And I just said my day, come to me. Yeah, I'll figure this out. So that was it. That's where it twisted into a, into something more tangible and, you know, a physical printing company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I would have thought syndicates become pretty soon after that, because then if you bring bands into the country then you can just do their merch Well, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, that's, that's right, and then that's always been part of my plan. You know, like I always think about right, if you do this and move them there and this happens, then you can then take advantage of this whole new thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's the way all of this has been working. But, um, what ended up happening in that regard and the reason why, uh, you know, more band orientated stuff didn't take off, I guess, is because I needed to get over this hump where I'd already drawn enough or was drawing for enough people, and I was, you know, doing merch for enough bands. Um, but that was limited because, like I said earlier, they don't have a lot of money, yeah, a lot of these bands, and they're not talking for money.
Speaker 3:Um but, my head just went my head just went.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, they can't sustain themselves, they can't live off their income from their band, so they've got day jobs. Oh, maybe I'll start providing to the places where they work to. Yeah, and that was the turning. That was a big turning point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I sort of go you know, you've got five dudes in a band that you know have become friends and that trust trust me, because I'm, you know, already working with them. And it's just like, hey, where do you, where do you work? And you know five guys, five different workplaces, two of them might be kind of high up the chain enough to have some kind of buying power. You know what I mean. Yeah, and they go well. Yeah, I actually just ordered you know X amount of you know items for a promo or for uniforms or whatever, and the numbers they're talking were much bigger than what the bands were.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what the bands were ordering.
Speaker 2:Holy shit, it's like, oh you know, I had a mate, I had a colleague of mine at my day job before I became redundant. He just said oh man, the craziest thing happened. I've become the head of the Liverpool Football Club fan club for Australia. Oh like, oh, yeah, and he goes we need heaps of shit. I'm like cool, let's do heaps of shit, yeah, and so one of my first jobs and I'm not I'm not a soccer fan. Really I'm well aware of who Liverpool are. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was one of my first big jobs and I had a really tight, you know, connection with this dude. He knew what I was trying to achieve and I sort of went oh fuck, I can you know I don't have to do just band stuff. I can do other things, obviously, but that was a realization for me.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. I just hadn't thought about it Because you were outside of your comfort zone. Right? That's right. That's sort of what I knew.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm, you know, I'm not someone. You pay for real things? Yeah, yeah. At best you pay me for band things? Yeah, because that's what I do. That's where.
Speaker 2:I'm from yeah, but the real things kept rolling, yeah, and you know, I found that there was there was more imposter syndrome. When I started actually talking to people from big companies, I'm like, oh shit, they're going to see straight through me. Yeah, but I don't care to be, or I don't think I can be, anyone but me. Yes, so I just go in there and go. Oh, here you go, and you know, let's do some stuff, but you're already doing things. How about? You know, I try to improve your deal or up your quality or something. While we're at it, let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what I would find is, more often than not, these sort of more stuffy corporate types. Let's say, would he would observe me and actually smile and let their guard hang out. Oh shit, I could be myself around you yeah, yeah. They're just people too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's something I'm really passionate about. Okay, you know, it doesn't matter how big you are, you're probably just a person.
Speaker 1:I hope you're just a person.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to find that so that's what. I go in and find and go, let's just do some shit. We've got a big, massive banner up on the wall over there it says we do cool shit with cool people, made by Giuseppe himself. But that's. I got him to make that for us simply because that is. That is the informal slogan for the business. You know, we just want to do cool shit with cool people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I use that also against people, sometimes when they've been awful to us as a business. It's like sorry, we only do cool shit with cool people. Yeah, you know what a really nice way to tell them you know, fuck off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have witnessed that too.
Speaker 2:It's great, yeah, hey, I'm not, I don't muck around with that stuff. You know you've got to be the customer's not always right. I'll do my best to help, but then always, not always right yeah.
Speaker 2:No, no, but yeah, that was basically my. You know, the ethos behind it all was just, you know, do things my way, find people like me, do some cool shit with some cool people, and that's that's something I learned from hardcore. Like going back to that quickly, like hardcore music is where I learnt all of this stuff. Like you, listen to, you know, listen. Listen to the bands I grew up on. You know punk rock bands right through. You know the heavier hardcore bands and they're saying to people you know, this is how we do our shit, this is what we do, we're going to do it our way. You know, aim that right and you know you're going to. You can get somewhere.
Speaker 2:The other thing being, you know, in bands for so long. A band is a business of. My good friend, coops actually wrote a really you know an incredible article about this that went viral some time ago, but he, you know he phrased it best. You know, like being in a band is like a startup business. Yeah, because it's a bunch of people with no money trying to get something done and that's you know that's a nicer way of wording it.
Speaker 2:You know wording what I've always felt. You know, just like I know how to do this shit because you know walking to the band room and go, we need money so that we can get some stuff, so we can sell it, so we can make some money and go to go on tour. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I wish I understood that in my younger years All I cared about was playing the music.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, look, I think we could have all you know benefited from it yeah.
Speaker 1:But um you know, 2020, you know exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:But um, yeah. And now, like I said, many years later, and you know, the trajectory has been up ever since then, which has been amazing for me, amazing for the team I've been able to build and, like I said, I've been able to put some people into my role a little more, freed myself up, and then here comes the syndicate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the syndicate came about because some good friends of mine they're from a band that I'm not allowed to mention yet they're confirmed to tour Australia. They're a band that have been Metallica. They've been Metallica yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, this band. They're heroes of mine and have also become friends of mine through some touring we did together. You know, having chats with them, having them put their trust in me, has opened up a floodgate, because I figured out how the industry works. I know basic business, obviously. Yep, I talked to a lot of people and, just you know, figured out, hey, what worked for you. This is other people that have been touring bands over the years. Australia is notorious for touring companies. You know having a hard time or you know losing on tours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, They've thrown COVID into it and it also, you know, fucks it up a little bit more because we're sort of only just starting to rebound from that as well, but we've got a world full of hardcore bands that are dying to get down under, because, I mean, there's no denying that Australia is world class when it comes to hardcore bands. Now We've got some amazing bands out there doing huge things. You look at festival bills overseas or just general tours running through North America and up, you know half of the bands sometimes are Aussie bands yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's got a huge impact right now. That gives us a lot of power to, you know, invite people over here to experience, you know, the Australian hardcore scene. Hardcore gave me everything in regards to direction, gave me an idea that I could belong somewhere, yeah, and it taught me everything I needed to know to build businesses and, you know, to network and whatever else it may be. I can give back to that now a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just doing that, just doing cool shit, having some fun. I've got the connections now and I want to take advantage of those for the good of all, I guess. So Syndicate now has there's about oh shit, I reckon there's six bands you've heard of lined up Yep, so it's really exciting. We recently announced Desolated. They're more of a heavy beatdown band from the UK. They weren't initially in the plan. They came about simply because when I announced Syndicate a few weeks ago, I just started posting. You know who's out there.
Speaker 3:Who do you want? What's going on Just?
Speaker 2:asking questions and seeing what sort of feedback I could get. There was an overwhelming amount of people say, hey, desolated are going to be in Southeast Asia for a tour next January. Yeah, that's a dream from a planning and a forecasting perspective for a touring company. Yeah, because a lot of the time it's about getting you know covering costs to get them here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're basically here, right there, yeah, right there. It's a small flight.
Speaker 2:So you know what fuck it. Let's go ahead, because I had this dream announcement ready to go, yep, and it got leapfrogged by this other band, which is cool. You know, like those dudes, like I know a lot of their friends and a lot of the bands that they play with in the UK, but I wasn't super familiar with Desolated myself. I knew of them. They've been kicking around for over 10 years and doing their thing in their end of hardcore. But the response has been amazing. Like people are jumping on and I'm not shy to say, oh, you buy some fucking tickets. You say you want these bands here, buy some tickets. You know, don't be all talk, and people are responding so this is something like it's going to be a really great tour. Yeah, and that's look. That's it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:I guess I've figured out in dealing with them and in dealing with the band that we're soon to announce, I've pretty much ironed out the question marks I had around, like what are the biggest problems people face in touring bands? You know how do people pitch and what limits can I go to in regards to you know how we pay these bands, because I didn't really know. I had a bit of. You know I had a bit of an education from the people I've been talking to and got an idea. But I feel pretty confident because I go in there and I say, look, australia's risky, let's get you over here. But I'm going to be up front here. All the expenses, yeah, if we provide you with a really good time and all expenses paid, you know, based on the you know, numbers of people attending shows at the moment, let's drop that number for our projections. Let's assume that. Let's assume we're selling tickets for this much. Yeah, and let's work out a deal based on the profits thereafter.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I bet it 100% strike what rate with the bands that I've been dealing with yeah, sounds like better than any proposed live or received, and I was in a decent sized band as well. Yeah, like, yeah, and I just remember people like barely even offering any sort of like further build on information In that regard. They were just like do you want to go to these places? Yeah, and that was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, it's transparency, I think, when I'm approaching people that have been in the game for a long, long, long long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know they've dealt with people like me before like I just thought, shit, I'm going in. I'm going in hard here. We've not a huge amount of experience, plenty of guidance, though I've got to be transparent. Yeah, I've got a low of those projections so that they know it. Absolute worst. This is what it should look like. Yeah, it's safe. It's safe for, it's safe for them and safe for us as a touring company and, yeah, I'm super confident about it now.
Speaker 2:Yeah now that up? Yeah, yeah, people have been coming back and you know Like I've been getting. I've been asking for feedback from the bands going where you know, what would you usually want? And a lot of the time they you know they have been telling me that it's about on par with what they were hoping for. Yeah, that's sweet, that's perfect. Yeah, I feel secure. I know that we can. It's not so much of a, you know, it's a, it's a calculated risk now, as opposed to a shot in the dark, and yeah, I think there's a really bright future. This indicate as well. I mean, like, again, we've got a really small audience, a passionate audience, but a small audience of hardcore sort of fans in Australia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's vital as well that I get on the phone with all of these other tour promoters as often as I can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a really good phone call this afternoon with Maddo from last ride records, because I don't know him. I just wanted to say good day and tell him what I'm about. See what he's about. It's clear he's killing it at the moment because he's, you know, looking up the bands like speed, who are absolutely dominating the world right now. Yeah, yeah, and like he's announcing you announce, no, no, warning tour. There are very much a nostalgia band. Yeah, you know, broke up. Did they break up? I'm not sure if they broke up and came back. I can't remember.
Speaker 3:I think they did. Yeah, I think they did but anyway they're back.
Speaker 2:He just announced a tour that's selling out like crazy. I think Melbourne sold. It sold out, you know, In a few hours or something like that, which is amazing. He's got Andrew dust on their way out that is selling well, like he's doing some really big things. So I thought I need to know this guy bands or drugs. Yeah, so I want to share the love there.
Speaker 2:And I was really transparent with him and said you know, like I want to promote your stuff, you know I'd love it if you promoted my stuff. But you know that's up to you. You know I want everyone, you know I want to give you a heads up when I've got tours coming, oh, when I plan to place my tours so that you can you know, you can you know, figure out will work best for you, or tell me.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I don't use those dates because, yeah, we want more people doing this stuff around here, because you can collab as well, right?
Speaker 1:Like if you guys have different you know bands that you're representing, it doesn't mean they can't go on the same tour together. I mean effectively just means you'd both be Contributing a band. That's right, it's, it's the pool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely it's possible. Yeah, you know we'll see what comes of that. But, um, you know, yeah, I've been having lots of really great converse and everyone's been really, you know, it's kind of daunting. I sort of thought I should am I gonna come in here and, and you know, be stepping on toes all over the place? Mm-hmm, didn't want that and I don't intend to do that, yeah, so I thought the easiest way to solve that is by talking to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, telling them, yeah, yeah, just be straight up Mm-hmm, yeah, and you know I'll pull back as well. It's not, I'm not out to dominate Mm-hmm, I'm not out to be the only one doing this, but I've got some really cool opportunities and I've got I've got people in my inbox that I Couldn't, I can't even explain, yeah, like the guys that are messaging even my personal pages. Just go. Hey, I've heard that you can help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah you know message in me and it's crazy like a bot response where it's like, if you want to go on tour, a message to syndicate you know, yeah, but yeah, that's, that's the new thing.
Speaker 2:so that's what I'm doing now and it's um Fucking awesome Like I'm super excited at the moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're alive again.
Speaker 1:I think I went into a little bit of a numb state during COVID and I know it came out of it somewhat, but it's this presence of, just like you know, I like it, things are cool and I'm happy and I think the fact that you're willing to Allow people to run your company for you was a big step, because it's your baby and you know this is your heart and soul. And it's hard, but that doesn't mean you can't have your strengths. You know Work in other areas, like syndicate.
Speaker 3:I have a lot of passion for that?
Speaker 1:Definitely, and it's funny I was just when you were speaking, just then. I was just thinking of someone we've previously had on the podcast Uh, kind of similar, but there is a key difference there. He Starts businesses and he attempts to step on people's toes and then he on sells the business and moves on. So there's the key difference between the two, because you both have that very driven mind to like start projects and get them going and have them operate really well. But the difference is you care and he doesn't. I guess it's not like he doesn't, it's more like he's. It's more like it's more like his, um, his payout is when he has achieved the success of sale, like that's his end point. Yeah, but your end point is when the company is A success and can remain sustainable.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, no, no, you mean, and look, I've had those ideas before as well.
Speaker 2:Maybe not the not caring about people bit, but like you, know, you grow a business to a point where you can package it up and sell it off. Yeah, if that's what you're driving at you what you could do.
Speaker 3:I could absolutely yeah absolutely Um yeah thanks man, I do care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love people of my people.
Speaker 1:What are we doing for time? Wrap it up, okay, all right. Well, if we wrap it up now, we're just gonna have to come back. So, um, I would love to have you on again at some point, um because, I like, because we actually didn't even get to a portion of your business. Um. Which I did want to talk about. Which was your um, which was your dropship. I think it's like a drop shipping thing. Is that, gee? What is it versus alliance? There we go, do we?
Speaker 2:have? Do we have a minute? Just a minute.
Speaker 1:Give it a couple of minutes, because I do want to talk about this, because, um, it's something that we want to use actually. So, yeah, gee, can you tell us what it is?
Speaker 3:It is a drop shipping program, as stated. So, yeah, yeah, we basically set everything up for you, put it up on the website and, um, you don't have to deal with shipping or, um, all that regular Crappy stuff that you don't want to deal with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, pretty much. So you want merch, uh, or you want to do merch, you want to sell merch, you want to, but you don't want the, the pain in the ass that goes along with making the orders. All you really have to do is create the merch. But even if you don't want to do that, versus can do that as well.
Speaker 3:We have the services here that can, that can also do that and help you out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we do. Indeed, it's been fun, hasn't it? Versus alliance it's called. So yeah, it's one of my snazzy names.
Speaker 3:Alliance.
Speaker 2:I like it but, um, it's very similar to syndicate. Isn't that the same thing? Yeah, it's in, it's in the same realm. Yeah, yeah, versus alliance. Yeah it's. It's something I've wanted to do for a long, long time because there was definitely a need for it. Um it just. You know why pay up front costs, um, when you don't?
Speaker 2:have to yeah, and so, yeah, as as joe was saying, you know we'll set up a, a web store for you, set up a portal, lay it all out and it looks. You know it'll look like your own page. Um, you direct your people there, they buy it. We, yeah, we print on demand. We worked really hard to make sure that the the printing and dispatch happens A little bit faster than all the other companies out there.
Speaker 2:We didn't. We didn't want to go in, and because we know there's going to be success here and it's already taking off, um, we didn't want to drown in it, yeah. So you know we have to keep that, that turnaround time, just out there a little bit, but we've already got eyes on bringing that forward. We've got some new equipment in that's. That's changing the game as far as our processing and our printing speeds, so that that'll definitely, um, yeah, improve anyway.
Speaker 1:But as a consumer, I've purchased from print on demand a few times and it's been really, really bad um in, not in terms of like turnaround or Um. Also in terms of the quality of the product and I think, like the main thing I want to say about Um versus alliance that will be different to what I've experienced as a consumer Is that the quality of the product is no different to if you were placing an order as like a consumer for like a company that you worked for and you were ordering bulk. There's not going to be. You're not going to get like that shitty t-shirt in a shitty material that doesn't like I don't know fit properly, or after you wash it it dies, like it's not that thing.
Speaker 2:It's still Printed properly on a proper fucking shirt, or whatever it is, we'll say it how it is and shout out to Elijah and our crew at AS Color we, we prefer AS Color. The whole country prefers AS Color. We've got the data on what people are ordering when they have the choice and more often than not it is all you know it's AS Color. Uh, just because they've got the goods Best, quality and price balance is my little correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's yeah so that's a no-brainer um drop ship print on demand means that you pay a little bit more than Um. You know you may pay if you did a bulk order, but you run no risks. You don't have any leftover sizes and I promise you that if you did buy a bulk amount by yourself, the amount of time you will spend sorting it, packing it, going to the post office.
Speaker 1:You, I promise the time.
Speaker 2:Time is fucking money Like that, and so we've added an amount to make it a worthy business sort of set up for us. But I it's not blowing out, so that it's just a ripoff. Like we are, we do have a better payout figure, uh, than the competitors. We've made sure of that. Um, and like you just said, the quality is there. Like the quality is as good as if you handpicked. Yes, you know a bulk order yourself, so it's a no-brainer yeah run.
Speaker 1:Don't walk two versus alliance for your own printing for your project. Um, in regards to that, we will also have our own merch at some point On versus alliance as well, so we'll give obviously shout outs for that when that comes out.
Speaker 3:Pixel pixel kids also on there.
Speaker 1:Pixel kids on there she's clothing brand as well.
Speaker 3:It's something from there. That's where it's come from.
Speaker 1:Yep and otherwise. Um, thank you so much for coming on, Thanks for having me guys, super, super insightful and cool. I still feel like we didn't get to finish everything, so I still think we should do another one with you.
Speaker 2:Could he kept talking? I'll be honest.
Speaker 3:Hey, we can talk for fun.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 2:Maybe that was it, but I filled up all the time of talking about the sign.
Speaker 3:Thank you, yeah, that was probably that, maybe 40 percent of the uh See.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you so much, man.
Speaker 2:Thanks guys. I'm very, very much appreciate the time and the chat.
Speaker 1:All right, peace out. All right, see you later, guys. Bye Peace. Hey guys, thank you so much for uh listening to and potentially watching our newest episode that we may be filmed and edited, uh in time, to be released. Um, if you could go ahead and follow us on all the socials, uh, we would love you for that. I'll kiss you on the mouth and also, um, shout out to versus, ev, from, from, versus, and please go check out versus alliance, and if you happen to work for a large company that needs bulk order printing, then give him a call or email. All right, bye, guys. Love you.